September 23, 2020 • 30 mins
“Fitspiration” and “thinspo” instagram pages flood our feed, our media consumption, and our minds. Social media can be an insidious player in the way we view ourselves and our bodies. And often, these struggles are made worse by the transition to college life. This episode is all about finding personal body acceptance, while also grappling with how our body, diet & lifestyle changes as we get older.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, Hey guys, Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus.
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotient
and I Heart Radio and co produced by The Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network podcast by college students for
college students. And I'm Hannah Ashton, I'm Katie Tracy, and
in today's episode, we are going to dive into body liberation.
(00:25):
I don't know what that means me neither, but we'll
learn about it together in our interview today. There is
a lot of pressure these days to look a certain way,
exercise a certain way, eat a certain way, and it's
not easy to be constantly bombarded with the media's perception
of a quote perfect body, and often it can really
harm my self esteem and make me forget the power
(00:46):
of my body and why I should just love it.
I think it also comes with being on social media
a lot, which focuses on numbers. One thing I opened
up about on my YouTube channel is how I gained
twenty five pounds in college. So you know how they
prepare you for the freshman fifteen, but nobody told me
there was also a sophomore ten and in total, for me,
that was an underclassman, and I look back now I'm
(01:10):
a junior, and I was really so focused on these numbers.
When I actually looked back, and I felt so strong
during those first two years because I was going to
the gym, I was lifting more, and it made sense
that I gained so much weight. And I don't know
why I focused so much about on the numbers, because
I was having a great time, you know. And I
admit I wasn't exercising as much as I did in
(01:31):
high school, but that's because I was focusing on just
the college experience, meeting you people, going out doing you things.
And I wish I just told myself that it's okay
to have fun and enjoy that, especially when I was
feeling confident. I think a lot of students can relate
to that, Katie Um And for me, I have found
when I came to college, I was ready to like
(01:52):
be on the health train and go to the gym
that was on campus and go to the workout classes
in Nashville. Like I was so ready to just own
the living on my own and eating healthy. And I
don't know how healthy. I thought I could cook in
a microwave and a dorm, but I was ready for it,
and so first semester was going good, and then second
semester I actually went through my first breakup, and then
on top of that, had some new work goals I
(02:14):
set for myself, and on top of school, health just
really took the back burner, and I mentally beat myself
up for that and thought of how can you get
behind when you came in so strong. But sophomore year
I really worked through all those thoughts and I feel
like now I'm at the point where I work out
every day to give me energy and to make me
feel good and not necessarily for how it'll make me look.
(02:36):
I find, especially being on Zoom all day, it's like
my stress relief, of my safe haven in the day
when I can go and move my body and kind
of get a break from sitting. And that's where our
next guest comes in. She's building a successful yoga career
in a space where she's had to confront her body
image struggles, and she's now on a mission to inspire
us to do the same. Embrace and claim all aspects
(02:57):
of our identity. We're talking about. Essaman Stanley Jessamin is
a yoga practitioner Body positivity advocate and writer. We're so
excited for you to learn all about Jessaman's your need
to help, fitness, and most importantly self compassion. Hi Jessman,
Welcome to the podcast. We're so excited to have you on.
We would love for you to start off by telling
(03:18):
our listeners a bit about yourself and your work. Absolutely so.
My name is Jessamine Stanley. I'm the founder of the
Underbelly Yoga. I am the author of Everybody Yoga. I
am the host of Dear Jessamin, and I am the
co founder of We Go High and See. And I mean,
I'm really just a yoga practitioner. Like obviously I teach yoga.
(03:41):
I travel around the world practicing and teaching and and
I speak a lot to the experience of living in
a marginalized body and still like wanting to live vibrantly
and uh working towards this elusive idea of not care
orring what anybody thinks, even though I'm not sure that
(04:02):
that's even really the purpose of life. But I definitely
focus on these things and talk about them. And I
mean a lot comes up with that, like as a
black person, as a queer person, as a fat person,
there's there's a lot of different layers to um sort
of peel back. But more than anything, at the end
of the day, I'm just a yoga practitioner, and I
(04:23):
show up to my practice the way that I show
up every day, and it's just to try to be
present and try to um show up for all that
life has to offer. So we did a little experiment
and googled yoga instructor, and the images that popped up
were mostly of thin white women. In an interview, you
(04:44):
mentioned how lonely the space could be as a queer
black them. Can you talk about the challenges you faced
in the space? You know, the challenges that I've faced
in the yoga world, which is definitely like predominantly white, slender,
able bodied, wealthy, those challenges are really not all that
(05:05):
different from the challenges that I've faced in every other
part of this world. Like, I think that we live
in a world that has been really built and is
currently scaffolded by white supremacy and by patriarchal ideology, and
so the experience of uh, someone who looks like me
(05:26):
is just really like counterintuitive to that whole perspective. And
I think that especially in the yoga world, where so
much of modern yoga is really based in fitness culture,
and there's a very specific idea in in the fitness
(05:49):
world of like what a healthy person looks like and
and what it means to be active and and generally
none of those definitions have anything to do with being
fat um to any degree. And so I've definitely experienced
a lot of discrimination where people, I mean, even it's
not just you know, the industry, it's not just like
(06:12):
I've I've experienced a lot of discrimination in terms of
like the types of professional opportunities that I have, but
even just with other practitioners who come out to class,
Like I've had people come to my class and and
like when I'm signing people in, they'll be like, are
you the teacher, And I'll be like, yeah, yeah, I'm
(06:33):
the teacher. And then they're just you can see it
on their face that they're like, man, I don't have
to pay this woman to practice yoga and she doesn't
even know how to do yoga, and you know she's fat.
If she's fat, how could she know about yoga. And
it's always that person who like at the end of
classes like dripping sweat and then they come up and
they're like, oh my god, this is a really amazing experience,
(06:56):
and like, I really didn't expect it, and and I
find the real lesson for me is to just sort
of accept that everyone is opening their eyes when it's
time for their eyes to be open, and that that
doesn't it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong or anything bad,
and that it's important for me to be compassionate in
(07:18):
those instances and to to show up for the lessons
for myself and to not be like, well, why didn't
you think that fat people could practice yoga? Because really,
I mean, this whole idea of like what a yoga
practitioner looks like is told has nothing to do with reality.
Like yoga is meant to be practiced by literally any
(07:40):
and all human beings. Like as long as you can breathe,
you practice yoga. It's not the postures can be adapted
for where you are in your life. All yoga really
is is about breathing, and it's really meant to carry
you through the hardest times in life. It's not about
like it's not about youth or about flexibility or like
(08:01):
all of these things that we think that yoga is about.
And so I have found that a lot of my
work really comes down to showing what yoga actually is
as opposed to this kind of like gymnastics that is
what people typically think that yoga is. I really admire
(08:22):
how you don't take you know, any criticism personally and
you realize like instead you choose to react with compassion,
and that at the end of the day is what
turns people around and draws them. I think, to your
many platforms, I'm also curious, was there a tipping point
from seeing this lack of representation to deciding you would
fill this space. I started posting about my yoga practice
(08:47):
on social media back whenever Instagram like first launched, So
there wasn't this whole Now there's like a lot of
people on Instagram, a lot of people who are yoga
pret titianers showing their practices. But when I first started
showing my own practice, there really weren't that many people,
and it was primarily just like very serious yoga people
(09:11):
and teachers, and it was people who were looking for
a sense of community outside of their home yoga practices,
because home yoga practice can be a little bit isolating,
and so as a result, like there's this desire to
connect to people who are not in your living room
or whatever, and so I wanted to feel a connection
(09:32):
outside of myself, and I took these photos really just
hoping to receive feedback from other practitioners like, oh, yeah,
I'm working on more or two too, or like, I
love cammel pots, this is how I practice camel posts like.
I was looking for that kind of feedback, but I
realized pretty quickly that the the vast majority of the
feedback that I received was people being like, I didn't
(09:54):
know that fat people could do yoga. Fat people can
do yoga, This is crazy, And I was just like,
why do you think fat people can't do yoga? Fat
people do all kinds of stuff literally all the time.
You just never see fat people doing anything except being
the before of a before an actor. And I think
that had I not had that realization, I probably would
(10:14):
not have continued to show my yoga practice, because I
actually tend to think that the showing of a yoga practice,
like photographing it and taking video and all of this,
that it's actually like kind of the opposite of what well,
it's not the not the capturing of images, but sharing
(10:36):
those images with other people. I kind of feel like
that is the opposite of yoga, because yoga is really
asking us always to be looking within ourselves for the answers,
and any time that you put yourself out into the
world for other people to engage with, it becomes about
what other people think of you, and so they're kind
of they don't really go in the same direction. And
(10:57):
there was a point some years ago where I almost
stopped posting about my yoga practice because I just felt
like it wasn't serving my practice and that it wasn't
serving me as a human being. And it was around
that time that I realized there was a bigger need
for representation within the yoga world because so much of
what is shown to be yoga is not yoga. It's
(11:21):
it's capitalism, it's gymnastics, it's it's destination, yoga retreats, it's
coconut water. It's all about selling something, and it really
has and it's all about the physical body, and it
has very little to do with this practice of introspection
and contemplation and a harvesting of compassion, and that really
(11:45):
all of that goals at much like deeper and more
complex layers of the self. Things that are that I
think provoke a lot of conflict, and so it's conflict
with both yourself and then also with other people. And
so one of the beautiful things about sharing my practice,
(12:07):
and the reason that I continue to do it to
this day, is because it's an opportunity to share what
a yoga practice really looks like. That it's not all
like handstands on the beach and drinking coconut water and
like what leggings do you wear. It's about reckoning with
the intersections of identity. And actually, my next book, Yoke,
(12:29):
is really about all of this. It's coming out next year,
and I talk about all of these these real layers
of the yoga practice where you're dealing with you know,
your sexual identity, your gender identity, your religious identity, your
racial identity, and how all of those things conflict with
one another. That that's what yoga really is, and that
(12:50):
there's this really beautiful opportunity through sharing the practice with
other people to encourage other people to have that journey
with than themselves. If we're all seeking compassion, and if
we're all looking within ourselves as opposed to fearfully constantly
looking outside of ourselves. Like right now, we're living in
(13:11):
this era of like everyone is so afraid of everything
all the time, and you can feel it. It's like
it's it is palpable. And I think that if we
reacted from a space of compassion as opposed to reacting
from a space of fear, that we would all collectively
be happier together. And so that really is what continues
(13:34):
to motivate me. That it is a little bit beyond
just showing like, yeah, fat people can do yoga. It's
like nah, in the age of COVID, in the age
of like the great racial awakening of the world. It
is imperative that we all look within ourselves. That's an
amazing perspective and also advice. I know a lot of
(13:56):
people go on Instagram to find that fits bo or
work out inspiration, but afterwards we may just feel intimidated,
especially in yoga, like you said, when we see people
doing crazy handstands and being super flexible. How do we
navigate this space in a healthy manner? That is so
real first of all, to like go on there and
be like, yeah, I'm gonna get on my yoga mat today,
(14:19):
and then you start looking at people like practicing these
deep inversions and like deep back binds, and you're just like,
what is this? And so I definitely feel that, and
I think that there's kind of this. There needs to
be more emphasis on the work that people are actually
doing when they're practicing those really intense postures, because like,
(14:43):
if you ask even it doesn't even need to be yoga,
like you could ask an ultramarathon or or like somebody
who swims long distances, or like someone who's obsessed with
cross fit, when you ask them why they're into it,
it doesn't have anything to do with their physical body.
It has absolutely nothing to do it, Like you don't
run hundreds of miles because you care about what your
(15:06):
body looks like. It's because if you are actually trying
to like like dig into some of the harder parts
of being a human, like whatever baggage you're carrying, it
might be it literally could be anything. When you see
a really intense physical practice, like whether that's yoga or
(15:28):
cross fit or running or whatever, the thing, boxing, whatever
the thing is, that you can really just remember that
you're just looking at that person's internal work and that
if you have some baggage that you need to deal
with This is the way to deal with it. Like
if it's just like, oh, yeah, I want to be flexible,
(15:50):
or like I want to be able to do a handstand,
Like why do you want to do that? It doesn't
really matter at the end of the day, like kind
of it's kind of like who cares what really it's
like if you're dealing with the fact that, like you
didn't get a job that you thought you really deserved,
and maybe maybe you did really deserve and somebody else
got it, and now you're dealing with what that actually
feels like, Like you're in a relationship that you totally
(16:13):
defined your identity and then you and that person are
no longer together anymore, and you have to figure out
who you are. Maybe you're pregnant out of nowhere, and
you need to figure out how to deal with that
within yourself, like maybe somebody really close to you has
passed away. Like all of those things things that we
think are like bad things about us, are actually what
(16:33):
makes us so incredible. And that is the fuel for
your physical practice. So like, if you want to get
into like take that baggage, carry it with you onto
the mat, and that will allow you to really dig
in dig into the extent that literally anyone who's practicing
a complex posture that's inspired you if that's going to
(16:53):
get you to where they are. I think one thing
that I struggle with, Like, I definitely want to have
a healthy life style, and during college especially, it's such
a great way to do stress. But one issue I'd
come across is when I think about going to the gym,
I'll try to invite a friend, you know, they'll say
something like, oh, I'm intimidated by the gym, or like
(17:15):
can we just do it in our suite or whatever,
And I'm like, what are your thoughts on this? And
what would you say to women who are intimidated by
the gym? It's so am I goodness, have so much
to say about this, because when I was in college,
one of like it was actually a couple of really
good friends of mine. We would like always go to
the gym together, and so much was dependent on like
(17:37):
what the other person was interested in doing. So like
if I wanted to run on the track or whatever,
and my friend didn't want to do that because she
was intimidated by the other people who were there or whatever,
then I don't get to run on the track or
like I'd be into doing the elliptical or whatever. If
she doesn't want to do the elliptical, I can't do
the olypticals all this stuff, And like I mean, I
do even to this day, I definitely struggle with if
(18:00):
the intimidation factor of being in the gym, and so
I really feel that as a sentiment, and I think
it is helpful to have another person there are other
people there to help you feel a little bit better.
But I also think it's really helpful to just like
try not to be so focused on finding a gym
buddy you're finding a partner or somebody to do it with,
(18:22):
because no matter what, like if you are doing it
with them for a long time, like there's gonna be
some change in y'all's lives where you're not able to
do it together, and then you might not continue to
do that practice, Like you might not keep going to
the gym or doing that online class or whatever it
is because your friend isn't there. And so I feel
(18:42):
like it's helpful to like try to separate from the
idea of needing to be with somebody else. I so
emphasize the importance of the home yoga practice, Like I
have my app The Underbelly Yoga, and I know that
like there's this desire to share a yoga practice with
other people. But really that whole building the Underbelly a
(19:03):
hundred percent came from me building my own home yoga
practice and recognizing how crucial that is for other people,
because it is so distracting to be in a space,
to be in a yoga space, even with other people,
like and yoga being something that I think people associate
with being like really calm and jill and like you're
(19:24):
in this environment where it's okay to be yourself. Uh,
it does not always feel that way, Like it'll feel
like you can't fart, you can't wear the wrong leggings,
you can't You've got to be able to move in
time with the teacher, with the other students, like that.
If you're doing anything that's even sort of different than
what other people are doing, then they're gonna think there's
(19:45):
something wrong with you. Like there's all of this baggage
that comes up that I think is really distracting from
the experience of just being in your own body, like
just doing your own thing. And so establishing a home
practice is whether that's in yoga or any other physical activity.
I feel like that is so crucial because when you're
(20:06):
at home, you can develop the confidence that you can
then carry out into the world with you. So that
if you are that person who's like, yeah, I don't
like being at the gym, or I don't like going
out to a random yoga class with people that I
don't know, it's very intimidating. That's totally legit practice at
home do your own thing, because at home you can,
(20:26):
like you can wear your underwear, you can stop whenever
you feel like it. I can't even tell you the
number of times that I like cut off an online
class halfway through because I'm just like, yeah, I'm good.
It's no shade on the teacher, no shade on whatever
the thing is. I'm just like, I'm kind of good.
You can kind of at home. You can make things
up on your own. You can get equipment that you
really like and that really speaks to you. You don't
(20:48):
have to go to the gym and like wait for
other people to be off of the equipment. Like, there's
so many different ways to adapt and learn in your
home space. And what is so beautiful about that is
that you can carry all of those tools out into
the world so that when you do go to the
gym or to the yoga class or whatever, that you
feel so much more okay with just being exactly as
(21:14):
you are. It's something I think confidence is something that
kind of has to be practiced at home and then
you can carry it out into the world with you.
That's also great, especially since you are promoting um creating
a yoga flow in your home, which is something we
all are having to do now as we're in the pandemic.
(21:34):
So I would love to ask you how can we
individually promote a culture of body positivity when we post online.
I think that the only way to be good to
other people is to be good to ourselves. And so
when we're like posting online, and whether that's like posting
(21:56):
a photo of ourselves, are posting a comment on someone
else's photo, it really comes down to me. It comes
down to, like treat other people the way that you'd
want to be treated, and like actually consider how you
want to be treated. And so I think that I
think that if you don't have a practice of doing
that to yourself and for yourself and not for anyone else,
(22:18):
or any other reason than the fact that you deserve it.
It's pretty much impossible to do that to other people
because you have no practice in doing it. It's similar
to the confidence thing. It's like, how can you just be?
How can you just be more like quote body positive
if you're not actually practicing it for yourself? And I
(22:39):
do think that it has to go beyond like being.
I think body positivity is so buzzy right now, and
it's so like it's just this elusive idea of like
always being happy with your body, and I don't really
think that that's what body positivity means. Like I actually
tend to favor the phrase body liberation at this point
(23:00):
because I feel like we're really trying to liberate ourselves
from these standards, like whether they're patriarchal or white supremacist
or whatever. Like we're trying to free ourselves from this ideology,
and that to me, is not always happy. It's not
always positive or good. Some of that work is really
dark and murky and complicated, but it's also really really necessary,
(23:24):
and so it's helpful to just be like, you know what,
I'm gonna take it all in. I'm going to accept
all of this I'm gonna let it all be here,
and that that when you are able to get to
that place of accepting both the good and the bad
and the very ugly, that's when you can actually start
to feel more free and feel more present and just
(23:45):
to be okay with things as they are. When I
came across the term body liberation on your platform, I
immediately fell in love with that because it really does
depend on the day, like especially with having a little
bit of an online presence. I to promote body positivity,
but I feel like I'd be lying to my audience
if I didn't wake up some days and really picked
(24:06):
myself apart and felt like I needed to work out longer.
I felt like I shouldn't work out maybe at all today.
So I'm so thankful you brought that up. And that's
a term that you use. So now we have a
fun little game. We want to do a yoga hot seat.
So we are going to fire off some yoga myths
and you just tell us if they are true or false.
Love it. Yes, Okay, you have to be flexible to
(24:28):
do yoga. My goodness, myth you do not have. Yoga
brings out the flexibility that's inside of you. Like everybody
is extremely flexible. Yoga doesn't make you You're not You
don't have to be flexible to do yoga. Yoga will
make you flexible. Yoga has to be spiritual. M I
actually think that this is true. I think that yoga
(24:48):
is always spiritual even when we don't think that it is.
I think that spirituality and religion are like such confusing
concepts honestly, like, I think that we all have very
clear ideas of what they mean. And really like spirituality
and being spiritual is just connecting with your deeper self,
like connecting with your most true self. You're we call
(25:11):
it the subtle body, like connecting to this body that's unseen,
and that that work is. I just feel like yoga
is always spiritual, even when you don't think that it's spiritual.
It's always spiritual. Yoga isn't a workout. Ah, this is
so okay. I would say that, no idea. I think
that's a myth. I think that yoga is not always
(25:34):
a workout. Like yoga is always put into this category
of fitness, and so if we're talking about like a
fitness workout, no, yoga is not always a fitness workout.
Like frequently, like yoga just means that you're yoking the
light in the dark of life, Like that you're bringing
together things that typically wouldn't make sense to come together,
(25:56):
and that process doesn't It's not always physical. I actually
think that the most important yoga happens in conversations with people.
The most important yoga is like when somebody cuts you
off in traffic and you have to like resist the
desire to road rage on them. Compared to that, handstands
are like a walk on the beach. All of the
physical postures are just preparation for that. So I would
(26:19):
say that no, in the traditional sense, yoga is not
always a workout, and for our lost one, hot yoga
is better for you. No, hot yoga is not like
particularly better for you. I think the hot yoga does
open your body in a way that unheated yoga does not,
Like there's a certain amount of flexibility that is required
(26:44):
of your physical body by a really hot environment, but
it's not like any better for you than any other
type of yoga. We love to end chatting a little
bit about self love. You once said the statement quote,
I don't think self love is a final desk a
nation Can you tell us more about that quote? Absolutely? Yeah.
I mean I think that we tend to feel as
(27:07):
though you've reached a point of self love and you're
just always happy, You're always great, Like it's like I
never have to worry about this anymore. I figured out
how to love myself. I'm good forever. And it's just
not like that at all, Like it's totally their days.
There will always be ups and downs, there will always
(27:27):
be fluctuations. Fluctuations are a part of life. The ups
and the downs are a part of life. And I
think that knowing that, accepting that, really finding a way
to love the fluctuations, that's a part of the self love.
So that because if you're only like I like myself
every day, if that's the only time that you think
(27:48):
you're experiencing self love, it's gonna really suck on the
days when you don't feel that way. So except that
there's gonna be fluctuations, and that the fluctuations are important,
I actually think I learned so much more about myself
on the days when I'm being mean to myself than
on the days when I'm like feeling good about myself.
I think there is there's a lot to learn from
(28:11):
the hard spots, and you don't have to run away
from them. Jessamin, thank you so much for being our
guest today. We are so inspired by what you do
to create a culture of inclusivity that encourages everyone to
love our bodies in all shapes and sizes. To all
our listeners, you can follow Justmine on Instagram at my
name is Justamine. Make sure to check out her virtually
yoga studio, The Underbelly. We'll have it in the show
(28:33):
that's below. Thank you all so much for having me.
Is really a pleasure to be here. Wow, that was
such a great interview. I know I now feel more
empowered to work out and move my body rather than
feel guilty about not working out. One thing I really
loved that she talked about is the term body liberation
(28:53):
and how it's okay to have days where you don't
love how your body looks, so you look in the
mirror and maybe you have some negative thoughts, but just
realizing those and knowing that we can sit in that
for a little bit and understand what we're feeling and
not be upset with ourselves for not loving our bodies,
but then working towards a better mental state about how
we feel about our bodies, and you know, instead of
(29:15):
always trying to force ourselves to feel good about how
we look, just doing little things every day that make
us feel good. Whether it's doing a ten minute yoga
practice in our dorm rooms or going to a full
blown workout class, every little thing counts. What did you
love hearing about Katie? I think what really resonated with
me was the part about embracing your space at home,
because I used to think it was so boring to
(29:37):
work out home, you know, do a good old like
floor workout, and also not doing it with anybody just
did not motivate or inspire me at all. But the
way she talked about, oh, you know, this is your
chance to go at your own pace, to take a
pause if you need to, to leave early if you
have to, and also to not worry about everybody else,
because the gym can be a very self conscious space.
(30:00):
And I've been there and it really takes the weight
off when you just you're just they're working out for
you because you enjoy it, you feel strong, and that's
something um I've started to adopt. In Quarantine listeners, I
hope this episode was inspiring to you to love our
bodies today and tomorrow and forever, because it's so important
(30:23):
to take care of our bodies and just love all
that they can do. The Secret Syllabus is a production
of The Female Quotation and I Heart Radio and co
produced by The Female Quotient and Wonder Media Network. The
Female Quotation is committed to advancing equality and elevating women
from college campuses to the corner office. You can find
(30:44):
out more at www dot the Female Quotient dot com.
We'll see you next week after class, By everyone,
Hi everyone, Hey guys, Welcome back to The Secret Syllabus.
The Secret Syllabus is a production of The Female Quotient
and I Heart Radio and co produced by The Female
Quotient and Wonder Media Network podcast by college students for
college students. And I'm Hannah Ashton, I'm Katie Tracy, and
in today's episode, we are going to dive into body liberation.
(00:25):
I don't know what that means me neither, but we'll
learn about it together in our interview today. There is
a lot of pressure these days to look a certain way,
exercise a certain way, eat a certain way, and it's
not easy to be constantly bombarded with the media's perception
of a quote perfect body, and often it can really
harm my self esteem and make me forget the power
(00:46):
of my body and why I should just love it.
I think it also comes with being on social media
a lot, which focuses on numbers. One thing I opened
up about on my YouTube channel is how I gained
twenty five pounds in college. So you know how they
prepare you for the freshman fifteen, but nobody told me
there was also a sophomore ten and in total, for me,
that was an underclassman, and I look back now I'm
(01:10):
a junior, and I was really so focused on these numbers.
When I actually looked back, and I felt so strong
during those first two years because I was going to
the gym, I was lifting more, and it made sense
that I gained so much weight. And I don't know
why I focused so much about on the numbers, because
I was having a great time, you know. And I
admit I wasn't exercising as much as I did in
(01:31):
high school, but that's because I was focusing on just
the college experience, meeting you people, going out doing you things.
And I wish I just told myself that it's okay
to have fun and enjoy that, especially when I was
feeling confident. I think a lot of students can relate
to that, Katie Um And for me, I have found
when I came to college, I was ready to like
(01:52):
be on the health train and go to the gym
that was on campus and go to the workout classes
in Nashville. Like I was so ready to just own
the living on my own and eating healthy. And I
don't know how healthy. I thought I could cook in
a microwave and a dorm, but I was ready for it,
and so first semester was going good, and then second
semester I actually went through my first breakup, and then
on top of that, had some new work goals I
(02:14):
set for myself, and on top of school, health just
really took the back burner, and I mentally beat myself
up for that and thought of how can you get
behind when you came in so strong. But sophomore year
I really worked through all those thoughts and I feel
like now I'm at the point where I work out
every day to give me energy and to make me
feel good and not necessarily for how it'll make me look.
(02:36):
I find, especially being on Zoom all day, it's like
my stress relief, of my safe haven in the day
when I can go and move my body and kind
of get a break from sitting. And that's where our
next guest comes in. She's building a successful yoga career
in a space where she's had to confront her body
image struggles, and she's now on a mission to inspire
us to do the same. Embrace and claim all aspects
(02:57):
of our identity. We're talking about. Essaman Stanley Jessamin is
a yoga practitioner Body positivity advocate and writer. We're so
excited for you to learn all about Jessaman's your need
to help, fitness, and most importantly self compassion. Hi Jessman,
Welcome to the podcast. We're so excited to have you on.
We would love for you to start off by telling
(03:18):
our listeners a bit about yourself and your work. Absolutely so.
My name is Jessamine Stanley. I'm the founder of the
Underbelly Yoga. I am the author of Everybody Yoga. I
am the host of Dear Jessamin, and I am the
co founder of We Go High and See. And I mean,
I'm really just a yoga practitioner. Like obviously I teach yoga.
(03:41):
I travel around the world practicing and teaching and and
I speak a lot to the experience of living in
a marginalized body and still like wanting to live vibrantly
and uh working towards this elusive idea of not care
orring what anybody thinks, even though I'm not sure that
(04:02):
that's even really the purpose of life. But I definitely
focus on these things and talk about them. And I
mean a lot comes up with that, like as a
black person, as a queer person, as a fat person,
there's there's a lot of different layers to um sort
of peel back. But more than anything, at the end
of the day, I'm just a yoga practitioner, and I
(04:23):
show up to my practice the way that I show
up every day, and it's just to try to be
present and try to um show up for all that
life has to offer. So we did a little experiment
and googled yoga instructor, and the images that popped up
were mostly of thin white women. In an interview, you
(04:44):
mentioned how lonely the space could be as a queer
black them. Can you talk about the challenges you faced
in the space? You know, the challenges that I've faced
in the yoga world, which is definitely like predominantly white, slender,
able bodied, wealthy, those challenges are really not all that
(05:05):
different from the challenges that I've faced in every other
part of this world. Like, I think that we live
in a world that has been really built and is
currently scaffolded by white supremacy and by patriarchal ideology, and
so the experience of uh, someone who looks like me
(05:26):
is just really like counterintuitive to that whole perspective. And
I think that especially in the yoga world, where so
much of modern yoga is really based in fitness culture,
and there's a very specific idea in in the fitness
(05:49):
world of like what a healthy person looks like and
and what it means to be active and and generally
none of those definitions have anything to do with being
fat um to any degree. And so I've definitely experienced
a lot of discrimination where people, I mean, even it's
not just you know, the industry, it's not just like
(06:12):
I've I've experienced a lot of discrimination in terms of
like the types of professional opportunities that I have, but
even just with other practitioners who come out to class,
Like I've had people come to my class and and
like when I'm signing people in, they'll be like, are
you the teacher, And I'll be like, yeah, yeah, I'm
(06:33):
the teacher. And then they're just you can see it
on their face that they're like, man, I don't have
to pay this woman to practice yoga and she doesn't
even know how to do yoga, and you know she's fat.
If she's fat, how could she know about yoga. And
it's always that person who like at the end of
classes like dripping sweat and then they come up and
they're like, oh my god, this is a really amazing experience,
(06:56):
and like, I really didn't expect it, and and I
find the real lesson for me is to just sort
of accept that everyone is opening their eyes when it's
time for their eyes to be open, and that that
doesn't it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong or anything bad,
and that it's important for me to be compassionate in
(07:18):
those instances and to to show up for the lessons
for myself and to not be like, well, why didn't
you think that fat people could practice yoga? Because really,
I mean, this whole idea of like what a yoga
practitioner looks like is told has nothing to do with reality.
Like yoga is meant to be practiced by literally any
(07:40):
and all human beings. Like as long as you can breathe,
you practice yoga. It's not the postures can be adapted
for where you are in your life. All yoga really
is is about breathing, and it's really meant to carry
you through the hardest times in life. It's not about
like it's not about youth or about flexibility or like
(08:01):
all of these things that we think that yoga is about.
And so I have found that a lot of my
work really comes down to showing what yoga actually is
as opposed to this kind of like gymnastics that is
what people typically think that yoga is. I really admire
(08:22):
how you don't take you know, any criticism personally and
you realize like instead you choose to react with compassion,
and that at the end of the day is what
turns people around and draws them. I think, to your
many platforms, I'm also curious, was there a tipping point
from seeing this lack of representation to deciding you would
fill this space. I started posting about my yoga practice
(08:47):
on social media back whenever Instagram like first launched, So
there wasn't this whole Now there's like a lot of
people on Instagram, a lot of people who are yoga
pret titianers showing their practices. But when I first started
showing my own practice, there really weren't that many people,
and it was primarily just like very serious yoga people
(09:11):
and teachers, and it was people who were looking for
a sense of community outside of their home yoga practices,
because home yoga practice can be a little bit isolating,
and so as a result, like there's this desire to
connect to people who are not in your living room
or whatever, and so I wanted to feel a connection
(09:32):
outside of myself, and I took these photos really just
hoping to receive feedback from other practitioners like, oh, yeah,
I'm working on more or two too, or like, I
love cammel pots, this is how I practice camel posts like.
I was looking for that kind of feedback, but I
realized pretty quickly that the the vast majority of the
feedback that I received was people being like, I didn't
(09:54):
know that fat people could do yoga. Fat people can
do yoga, This is crazy, And I was just like,
why do you think fat people can't do yoga? Fat
people do all kinds of stuff literally all the time.
You just never see fat people doing anything except being
the before of a before an actor. And I think
that had I not had that realization, I probably would
(10:14):
not have continued to show my yoga practice, because I
actually tend to think that the showing of a yoga practice,
like photographing it and taking video and all of this,
that it's actually like kind of the opposite of what well,
it's not the not the capturing of images, but sharing
(10:36):
those images with other people. I kind of feel like
that is the opposite of yoga, because yoga is really
asking us always to be looking within ourselves for the answers,
and any time that you put yourself out into the
world for other people to engage with, it becomes about
what other people think of you, and so they're kind
of they don't really go in the same direction. And
(10:57):
there was a point some years ago where I almost
stopped posting about my yoga practice because I just felt
like it wasn't serving my practice and that it wasn't
serving me as a human being. And it was around
that time that I realized there was a bigger need
for representation within the yoga world because so much of
what is shown to be yoga is not yoga. It's
(11:21):
it's capitalism, it's gymnastics, it's it's destination, yoga retreats, it's
coconut water. It's all about selling something, and it really
has and it's all about the physical body, and it
has very little to do with this practice of introspection
and contemplation and a harvesting of compassion, and that really
(11:45):
all of that goals at much like deeper and more
complex layers of the self. Things that are that I
think provoke a lot of conflict, and so it's conflict
with both yourself and then also with other people. And
so one of the beautiful things about sharing my practice,
(12:07):
and the reason that I continue to do it to
this day, is because it's an opportunity to share what
a yoga practice really looks like. That it's not all
like handstands on the beach and drinking coconut water and
like what leggings do you wear. It's about reckoning with
the intersections of identity. And actually, my next book, Yoke,
(12:29):
is really about all of this. It's coming out next year,
and I talk about all of these these real layers
of the yoga practice where you're dealing with you know,
your sexual identity, your gender identity, your religious identity, your
racial identity, and how all of those things conflict with
one another. That that's what yoga really is, and that
(12:50):
there's this really beautiful opportunity through sharing the practice with
other people to encourage other people to have that journey
with than themselves. If we're all seeking compassion, and if
we're all looking within ourselves as opposed to fearfully constantly
looking outside of ourselves. Like right now, we're living in
(13:11):
this era of like everyone is so afraid of everything
all the time, and you can feel it. It's like
it's it is palpable. And I think that if we
reacted from a space of compassion as opposed to reacting
from a space of fear, that we would all collectively
be happier together. And so that really is what continues
(13:34):
to motivate me. That it is a little bit beyond
just showing like, yeah, fat people can do yoga. It's
like nah, in the age of COVID, in the age
of like the great racial awakening of the world. It
is imperative that we all look within ourselves. That's an
amazing perspective and also advice. I know a lot of
(13:56):
people go on Instagram to find that fits bo or
work out inspiration, but afterwards we may just feel intimidated,
especially in yoga, like you said, when we see people
doing crazy handstands and being super flexible. How do we
navigate this space in a healthy manner? That is so
real first of all, to like go on there and
be like, yeah, I'm gonna get on my yoga mat today,
(14:19):
and then you start looking at people like practicing these
deep inversions and like deep back binds, and you're just like,
what is this? And so I definitely feel that, and
I think that there's kind of this. There needs to
be more emphasis on the work that people are actually
doing when they're practicing those really intense postures, because like,
(14:43):
if you ask even it doesn't even need to be yoga,
like you could ask an ultramarathon or or like somebody
who swims long distances, or like someone who's obsessed with
cross fit, when you ask them why they're into it,
it doesn't have anything to do with their physical body.
It has absolutely nothing to do it, Like you don't
run hundreds of miles because you care about what your
(15:06):
body looks like. It's because if you are actually trying
to like like dig into some of the harder parts
of being a human, like whatever baggage you're carrying, it
might be it literally could be anything. When you see
a really intense physical practice, like whether that's yoga or
(15:28):
cross fit or running or whatever, the thing, boxing, whatever
the thing is, that you can really just remember that
you're just looking at that person's internal work and that
if you have some baggage that you need to deal
with This is the way to deal with it. Like
if it's just like, oh, yeah, I want to be flexible,
(15:50):
or like I want to be able to do a handstand,
Like why do you want to do that? It doesn't
really matter at the end of the day, like kind
of it's kind of like who cares what really it's
like if you're dealing with the fact that, like you
didn't get a job that you thought you really deserved,
and maybe maybe you did really deserve and somebody else
got it, and now you're dealing with what that actually
feels like, Like you're in a relationship that you totally
(16:13):
defined your identity and then you and that person are
no longer together anymore, and you have to figure out
who you are. Maybe you're pregnant out of nowhere, and
you need to figure out how to deal with that
within yourself, like maybe somebody really close to you has
passed away. Like all of those things things that we
think are like bad things about us, are actually what
(16:33):
makes us so incredible. And that is the fuel for
your physical practice. So like, if you want to get
into like take that baggage, carry it with you onto
the mat, and that will allow you to really dig
in dig into the extent that literally anyone who's practicing
a complex posture that's inspired you if that's going to
(16:53):
get you to where they are. I think one thing
that I struggle with, Like, I definitely want to have
a healthy life style, and during college especially, it's such
a great way to do stress. But one issue I'd
come across is when I think about going to the gym,
I'll try to invite a friend, you know, they'll say
something like, oh, I'm intimidated by the gym, or like
(17:15):
can we just do it in our suite or whatever,
And I'm like, what are your thoughts on this? And
what would you say to women who are intimidated by
the gym? It's so am I goodness, have so much
to say about this, because when I was in college,
one of like it was actually a couple of really
good friends of mine. We would like always go to
the gym together, and so much was dependent on like
(17:37):
what the other person was interested in doing. So like
if I wanted to run on the track or whatever,
and my friend didn't want to do that because she
was intimidated by the other people who were there or whatever,
then I don't get to run on the track or
like I'd be into doing the elliptical or whatever. If
she doesn't want to do the elliptical, I can't do
the olypticals all this stuff, And like I mean, I
do even to this day, I definitely struggle with if
(18:00):
the intimidation factor of being in the gym, and so
I really feel that as a sentiment, and I think
it is helpful to have another person there are other
people there to help you feel a little bit better.
But I also think it's really helpful to just like
try not to be so focused on finding a gym
buddy you're finding a partner or somebody to do it with,
(18:22):
because no matter what, like if you are doing it
with them for a long time, like there's gonna be
some change in y'all's lives where you're not able to
do it together, and then you might not continue to
do that practice, Like you might not keep going to
the gym or doing that online class or whatever it
is because your friend isn't there. And so I feel
(18:42):
like it's helpful to like try to separate from the
idea of needing to be with somebody else. I so
emphasize the importance of the home yoga practice, Like I
have my app The Underbelly Yoga, and I know that
like there's this desire to share a yoga practice with
other people. But really that whole building the Underbelly a
(19:03):
hundred percent came from me building my own home yoga
practice and recognizing how crucial that is for other people,
because it is so distracting to be in a space,
to be in a yoga space, even with other people,
like and yoga being something that I think people associate
with being like really calm and jill and like you're
(19:24):
in this environment where it's okay to be yourself. Uh,
it does not always feel that way, Like it'll feel
like you can't fart, you can't wear the wrong leggings,
you can't You've got to be able to move in
time with the teacher, with the other students, like that.
If you're doing anything that's even sort of different than
what other people are doing, then they're gonna think there's
(19:45):
something wrong with you. Like there's all of this baggage
that comes up that I think is really distracting from
the experience of just being in your own body, like
just doing your own thing. And so establishing a home
practice is whether that's in yoga or any other physical activity.
I feel like that is so crucial because when you're
(20:06):
at home, you can develop the confidence that you can
then carry out into the world with you. So that
if you are that person who's like, yeah, I don't
like being at the gym, or I don't like going
out to a random yoga class with people that I
don't know, it's very intimidating. That's totally legit practice at
home do your own thing, because at home you can,
(20:26):
like you can wear your underwear, you can stop whenever
you feel like it. I can't even tell you the
number of times that I like cut off an online
class halfway through because I'm just like, yeah, I'm good.
It's no shade on the teacher, no shade on whatever
the thing is. I'm just like, I'm kind of good.
You can kind of at home. You can make things
up on your own. You can get equipment that you
really like and that really speaks to you. You don't
(20:48):
have to go to the gym and like wait for
other people to be off of the equipment. Like, there's
so many different ways to adapt and learn in your
home space. And what is so beautiful about that is
that you can carry all of those tools out into
the world so that when you do go to the
gym or to the yoga class or whatever, that you
feel so much more okay with just being exactly as
(21:14):
you are. It's something I think confidence is something that
kind of has to be practiced at home and then
you can carry it out into the world with you.
That's also great, especially since you are promoting um creating
a yoga flow in your home, which is something we
all are having to do now as we're in the pandemic.
(21:34):
So I would love to ask you how can we
individually promote a culture of body positivity when we post online.
I think that the only way to be good to
other people is to be good to ourselves. And so
when we're like posting online, and whether that's like posting
(21:56):
a photo of ourselves, are posting a comment on someone
else's photo, it really comes down to me. It comes
down to, like treat other people the way that you'd
want to be treated, and like actually consider how you
want to be treated. And so I think that I
think that if you don't have a practice of doing
that to yourself and for yourself and not for anyone else,
(22:18):
or any other reason than the fact that you deserve it.
It's pretty much impossible to do that to other people
because you have no practice in doing it. It's similar
to the confidence thing. It's like, how can you just be?
How can you just be more like quote body positive
if you're not actually practicing it for yourself? And I
(22:39):
do think that it has to go beyond like being.
I think body positivity is so buzzy right now, and
it's so like it's just this elusive idea of like
always being happy with your body, and I don't really
think that that's what body positivity means. Like I actually
tend to favor the phrase body liberation at this point
(23:00):
because I feel like we're really trying to liberate ourselves
from these standards, like whether they're patriarchal or white supremacist
or whatever. Like we're trying to free ourselves from this ideology,
and that to me, is not always happy. It's not
always positive or good. Some of that work is really
dark and murky and complicated, but it's also really really necessary,
(23:24):
and so it's helpful to just be like, you know what,
I'm gonna take it all in. I'm going to accept
all of this I'm gonna let it all be here,
and that that when you are able to get to
that place of accepting both the good and the bad
and the very ugly, that's when you can actually start
to feel more free and feel more present and just
(23:45):
to be okay with things as they are. When I
came across the term body liberation on your platform, I
immediately fell in love with that because it really does
depend on the day, like especially with having a little
bit of an online presence. I to promote body positivity,
but I feel like I'd be lying to my audience
if I didn't wake up some days and really picked
(24:06):
myself apart and felt like I needed to work out longer.
I felt like I shouldn't work out maybe at all today.
So I'm so thankful you brought that up. And that's
a term that you use. So now we have a
fun little game. We want to do a yoga hot seat.
So we are going to fire off some yoga myths
and you just tell us if they are true or false.
Love it. Yes, Okay, you have to be flexible to
(24:28):
do yoga. My goodness, myth you do not have. Yoga
brings out the flexibility that's inside of you. Like everybody
is extremely flexible. Yoga doesn't make you You're not You
don't have to be flexible to do yoga. Yoga will
make you flexible. Yoga has to be spiritual. M I
actually think that this is true. I think that yoga
(24:48):
is always spiritual even when we don't think that it is.
I think that spirituality and religion are like such confusing
concepts honestly, like, I think that we all have very
clear ideas of what they mean. And really like spirituality
and being spiritual is just connecting with your deeper self,
like connecting with your most true self. You're we call
(25:11):
it the subtle body, like connecting to this body that's unseen,
and that that work is. I just feel like yoga
is always spiritual, even when you don't think that it's spiritual.
It's always spiritual. Yoga isn't a workout. Ah, this is
so okay. I would say that, no idea. I think
that's a myth. I think that yoga is not always
(25:34):
a workout. Like yoga is always put into this category
of fitness, and so if we're talking about like a
fitness workout, no, yoga is not always a fitness workout.
Like frequently, like yoga just means that you're yoking the
light in the dark of life, Like that you're bringing
together things that typically wouldn't make sense to come together,
(25:56):
and that process doesn't It's not always physical. I actually
think that the most important yoga happens in conversations with people.
The most important yoga is like when somebody cuts you
off in traffic and you have to like resist the
desire to road rage on them. Compared to that, handstands
are like a walk on the beach. All of the
physical postures are just preparation for that. So I would
(26:19):
say that no, in the traditional sense, yoga is not
always a workout, and for our lost one, hot yoga
is better for you. No, hot yoga is not like
particularly better for you. I think the hot yoga does
open your body in a way that unheated yoga does not,
Like there's a certain amount of flexibility that is required
(26:44):
of your physical body by a really hot environment, but
it's not like any better for you than any other
type of yoga. We love to end chatting a little
bit about self love. You once said the statement quote,
I don't think self love is a final desk a
nation Can you tell us more about that quote? Absolutely? Yeah.
I mean I think that we tend to feel as
(27:07):
though you've reached a point of self love and you're
just always happy, You're always great, Like it's like I
never have to worry about this anymore. I figured out
how to love myself. I'm good forever. And it's just
not like that at all, Like it's totally their days.
There will always be ups and downs, there will always
(27:27):
be fluctuations. Fluctuations are a part of life. The ups
and the downs are a part of life. And I
think that knowing that, accepting that, really finding a way
to love the fluctuations, that's a part of the self love.
So that because if you're only like I like myself
every day, if that's the only time that you think
(27:48):
you're experiencing self love, it's gonna really suck on the
days when you don't feel that way. So except that
there's gonna be fluctuations, and that the fluctuations are important,
I actually think I learned so much more about myself
on the days when I'm being mean to myself than
on the days when I'm like feeling good about myself.
I think there is there's a lot to learn from
(28:11):
the hard spots, and you don't have to run away
from them. Jessamin, thank you so much for being our
guest today. We are so inspired by what you do
to create a culture of inclusivity that encourages everyone to
love our bodies in all shapes and sizes. To all
our listeners, you can follow Justmine on Instagram at my
name is Justamine. Make sure to check out her virtually
yoga studio, The Underbelly. We'll have it in the show
(28:33):
that's below. Thank you all so much for having me.
Is really a pleasure to be here. Wow, that was
such a great interview. I know I now feel more
empowered to work out and move my body rather than
feel guilty about not working out. One thing I really
loved that she talked about is the term body liberation
(28:53):
and how it's okay to have days where you don't
love how your body looks, so you look in the
mirror and maybe you have some negative thoughts, but just
realizing those and knowing that we can sit in that
for a little bit and understand what we're feeling and
not be upset with ourselves for not loving our bodies,
but then working towards a better mental state about how
we feel about our bodies, and you know, instead of
(29:15):
always trying to force ourselves to feel good about how
we look, just doing little things every day that make
us feel good. Whether it's doing a ten minute yoga
practice in our dorm rooms or going to a full
blown workout class, every little thing counts. What did you
love hearing about Katie? I think what really resonated with
me was the part about embracing your space at home,
because I used to think it was so boring to
(29:37):
work out home, you know, do a good old like
floor workout, and also not doing it with anybody just
did not motivate or inspire me at all. But the
way she talked about, oh, you know, this is your
chance to go at your own pace, to take a
pause if you need to, to leave early if you
have to, and also to not worry about everybody else,
because the gym can be a very self conscious space.
(30:00):
And I've been there and it really takes the weight
off when you just you're just they're working out for
you because you enjoy it, you feel strong, and that's
something um I've started to adopt. In Quarantine listeners, I
hope this episode was inspiring to you to love our
bodies today and tomorrow and forever, because it's so important
(30:23):
to take care of our bodies and just love all
that they can do. The Secret Syllabus is a production
of The Female Quotation and I Heart Radio and co
produced by The Female Quotient and Wonder Media Network. The
Female Quotation is committed to advancing equality and elevating women
from college campuses to the corner office. You can find
(30:44):
out more at www dot the Female Quotient dot com.
We'll see you next week after class, By everyone,
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