July 6, 2020 • 30 mins
On episode eighteen of the Shack Show, Geoff Shackelford reacts to the style of golf Bryson DeChambeau is competing and winning with on the PGA TOUR. Geoff wonders if golf is becoming too one dimensional and discusses if Bryson DeChambeau will ignite distance regulations from the governing bodies.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,
welcome to another Shack Show. If you were watching the
golf this weekend, a big ift, probably because of the
(00:20):
fourth of July holiday here in the United States, you know,
it was a It was a lively weekend on CBS,
despite the Rocket Mortgage Classic not having any fans on site,
and uh, it was a combination of factors. Obviously, there
was a little controversy on Saturday on July four, if
you weren't following Price and d Shambo got into it
(00:43):
with a photographer, a cameraman, excuse me, a television cameraman,
not a photographer, big difference and kind of went all
Howard Hughes that he didn't like that after throwing a
little tantrum and the bunker that the cameraman stayed on
him and real scary, weird kind of stuff, and uh
didn't back down after the round when asked about it
by Will Gray of golf Channel dot com, who was
(01:07):
actually out on the golf course watching something that doesn't
get to happen very often anymore in the in the
world of golf media, either because of of dying enterprises
or restrictions on tournaments right now that you can all understand. Anyhow,
it was a strange sag. I covered it on my site.
There were some good columns um. But it set things
up for Sunday, and of course, naturally De Shambo three
(01:30):
back goes on to win. But the real focus should
be to me about imagination and the way the game
is played and what he's done. And this is in
no way to take away from what de Shambo has done,
because if you look at the numbers over the course
of a season playing this kind of golf, which is
(01:52):
essentially bomb and gouge or hit it as hard as
you can and find it whatever you want to call it,
it works over the course of a seat. And now
he got his sixth PJ Tour win. He did it
on a golf course where I guess theoretically it should
not have worked because it's an old Donald Ross tree
lined um, difficult to shape the ball. So he's played
(02:14):
very well here on this tour return return at three
venues in particular that are known as places where say
Kevin Kissner who ended up having an ice finish on Sunday. Uh,
this is their week, these are these are their events
to to thrive because there maybe narrower, more exacting tests
of golf, and he just blew right over all that.
(02:36):
And so the thing that I would ask that you
consider in kind of pondering now that Bryson has a
week off and we don't aren't going to do the
Bryson Show for for for at least four or five days,
though I'm sure Jack Nicholas will be asked about it
early on in the memorial a week from now, but
(02:56):
we do get a reprieve. But I think it's a
great chance to wonder why this is unsettling for a
lot of people, those of us who live through the
bomb and gauge era in the early two thousand's when
they grew up rough to try and stop players from
doing this. I know that that doesn't work, That Lincoln
and golf courses doesn't work, makes it worse, um, But
(03:19):
the solution is obvious in terms of doing something with
the equipment. Bryson is able to generate the speed he
generates and go after the ball the way he does
because of the lighter shaft, the bigger head of the
driver UH and UM track man and a lot of
other things that allow him to optimize his his launch conditions,
(03:39):
and I say, good for him. He's he's outsmarting the
rulemakers and uh, targeting statistics and understanding what you have
to do, and I say, absolutely, go for it. Now
transforming your body. I think that's where he has opened
some eyes. You know, for years, those of us who
bitched and moan about technology and the state of the
(04:00):
game and all this kind of stuff have have suggested
that this love of making this game more about athleticism
and getting in the gym and getting big wasn't really
a great idea because it it could get out of hand.
And we we did see kind of a run in
the mid um two thousand's, early two thousands to to
(04:21):
I don't know, two thousand and fifteen sixteen, We're getting
big and strong was a big deal. We've seen now
players kind of throttle back and work more on flexibility,
not bricing. He's gone the other way, and uh, hey,
good for him that he can do this. But is
that really what golf wants to be? Doesn't want to
be a sport about braun and about getting buff and
(04:43):
and just generating speed. You know, there was an interesting
comment to about just how one dimensional it gets from
John Wood, who is Matt Kucher's caddy, one of the
real uh great minds out there on the tour and
uh good so all good spirit and he he marveled
at how Bryson really doesn't have to practice a mid
(05:05):
iron anymore. It's really about driving and the quality of putting.
And we've seen this trend where where that really is
the thing that can separate you bombing it being able
to put and everything in between is really not super important.
And is that what golf wants to become a one
(05:25):
dimensional or close to one dimensional sport. I happen to
think that's a mistake. I think it makes the game
less interesting to watch to play. I think you're seeing
it with young players now. They don't seem to enjoy
playing for fun as much as they used to. You know,
they're only a handful of players on the tour who
go play other golf courses just to see other courses
(05:47):
and and to have a fun game. A lot of them.
You'll you'll hear it in the comments, you know, or
during this pandemic, they shut it down. They shut it down.
It is it is um it's a job for them,
And I just wonder Ultimately, if that's a good thing.
As a fan, we want to see a variety of players.
We want to see imaginative golf, and we want to
see UH players having fun playing the game. And I
(06:09):
know Bryson maybe having fun what he's doing what he's doing,
and Matthew Wolf, who almost won the tournament, does exude
a certain joy when he plays, but so many of
the players don't um these days, and and and it's
we talked about it on the State of the Game
podcast with Jeff Vogilvy. That may just be the nature
of the sport too, that golfers never really look like
(06:31):
they're truly enjoying what they do. But that idea of
imagination I think is important. One because we have tracer
now and you can see the ball moving all that
fun stuff. And then the other reason I want to
bring up imagination before I talked to producer Tim who
loves this UH distance game, and we're gonna have a
little chat about about what transpired over the weekend. But
(06:51):
as we now moved to Merefield Village for two weeks
on the PGA Tour, the notion of imagination will come
up because they are playing back to tournaments there and
they're not showing a lot of imagination and how they
are trying to differentiate these two events. The first event
is sponsored by Workday. The purse is a little over
(07:11):
six million dollars. There's a charitable component that we're going
to hear about that. That's should be great because nationwide
the sponsor there of the memorial is very involved and
they're they're really a pretty incredible company. I've I've gotten
to see what they do there in Columbus, and so
that'll be great. In Merefield Village, very good golf course
the players generally really love, and they're gonna set it
(07:32):
up a lot easier the first week, and then they're
going to take the green speed up and the rough
up or at least allowed to grow as much as
it can between the two of our events. And I
assume they'll stop mowing it on Wednesday of this week.
And that's really the extent of it. And it's really
kind of a disappointment. I wrote a blog post that
Jeff Shackle for dot com, but if if you don't
(07:54):
want to go read it, I can spare you. The
the bullet points are are really pretty simple. They should
have reversed the nines at the bare minimum, so that
television shows us more of the front nine in week
one and more of the back nine during the Memorial.
The bigger obviously of the two events, which has player
field versus for this work day thing. Then I believe
(08:16):
it would have been a great chance to do something
a little more radical, maybe fifty four holes, maybe stableford scoring,
maybe a ten club limit. That would be an interesting
conversation piece early in the week. What are guys taking
out of their bag? What are their manufacturers adjusting for
them to fill gaps um something a lot of people
have wanted to see in in during this pandemic, a
(08:36):
lot of people have been forced to walk, so they've
taken clubs out of their bag and reported having a
blast playing a limited set. And I think it would
have been a great chance to play a twelve hole round.
And there was a perfect little routing there at Merefield
Village maybe would have allowed that, but anyhow, we'll never know.
But it's it's kind of another sign of this lack
of imagination that I think is really dangerous for pro
(09:00):
golf and for the game. That the beauty of golf
is is uh, it's variety. Seeing players be creative and
are we losing that in this push? I think we
already have lost it quite a bit, um, But I
hope that the next few weeks allow, with hopefully the
return of Tiger Woods and Jack Nicholas being around at
(09:23):
Merefield Village, a little more discussion about this notion of
imagination and is that something worth protecting and fighting for
in the sport? Anyway? Quick break here on the Shack Show,
and then I'm going to talk to producer Tim more
about this U Bryson thing and and the distance uh
push in golf. All Right, We're back on the Shack
(09:55):
Show and producer Tim Protka is here, and Tim loves
the power Game so much that he didn't watch the
Mortgage The Mortgage I can't even get the name right,
the Rocket Mortgage Classic. It just rolls off the tongue.
How could how could you not watch this important tournament?
Had the winner of the three m your hometown event,
Matthew Wolfe one of the great events in the history
(10:15):
of the game when he won that, how could you
not have recorded this and watched it like three times? Well, Jeff,
if I'm being completely honest here, I was dominating in
a cornhole bean bags game. And I couldn't leave for
for a tournament, for a classic that had four or
(10:36):
five of the top twenty players in the world and
only two or three in the top ten. I mean,
the field was boring, Jeff, I mean, why would I
be excited to watch a tournament with barely any of
the top players? Yeah, okay, fine, you're you're you're a
star person. I get that. I'm a golf course person.
(10:58):
Detroit Golf Club was really as an interesting golf course.
I think the other course at the club is probably
still more interesting, but it's very short and they can't
play that. So I watched for that and it was
actually CBS is best week. They had a really good week,
especially in the last day. They told the story of
what Bryson was doing, well, they didn't. They never addressed
(11:19):
what happened on Saturday when he he berated one of
their cameramen for for following him. Uh, like a cameraman
does They tend to They tend to shoot the golfer
that and follow them as they walk because you never
know and when the director might like to show something.
But they never addressed that. But they did a great
job telling the story, and some of these numbers of
(11:42):
how much he was out driving Troy Merritt by uh
even Jim nance and I'm sure this was Tom Spencer,
his trustee sidekick. I assumed they fed him this stat.
I don't think Jim had time to do the math
on this. But Tim he Bryson out drove Merrit by
four and twenty three total yards on the fourteen driving holes,
(12:03):
and then a hundred and forty three yards longer than
Wolf who was playing behind him on the same fourteen holes.
So I mean, this is thrilling, this power game, and
you weren't watching. I'm just I'm disappointed. But um, I
also don't blame you. It's because it's ultimately it's very
one dimensional golf. And you you make the point though
(12:26):
that there is a skill in this. Yes, absolutely, Why
or why wouldn't World Golf champions be playing on the
PGA Tour if it was all about hitting the long ball.
It's it's not. Bryson d Shambo also finished first in putting,
so that I mean he had to do that because
that's what the game is now, it's vomit and be
(12:47):
able to put well right, Well, I think the bigger
issue that I'm trying to advance beyond because Bryson, let's
face it, he's a polarizing figure and that doesn't help
the situation. Although I will say, after years of being
lectured about how these great athletes are just just athletes
(13:08):
and you just got to let it go. It's it's
not the equipment. It's funny in Bryson's case, people are
not really feeding me that one. I'm not. I'm not
hearing those lectures anymore, but probably because some people are
just conflicted about him. They don't like him, or they
don't like seeing what he's done to his body to
do this, which is my big issue more than anything,
the idea that their kids out there who will try
(13:31):
to copy this, or other good players who who already
are I mean, I know of several good players on
the tour who dumped instructors who couldn't get them the
speed that they needed. And I just think it's a dreadful,
uh direction to go in, because no sport that has
pursued this and pursued power and let's face it, the
(13:52):
sports to where they did it with their physique, they
ended up not really doing it very on the up
and up I happen to think Bryson is doing this
on the up and up. Um. We saw what he eats.
He and he works hard. I really believe that. I
I've dealt with him enough to know. I just don't
think he's the cheating type. I really don't. But the
(14:15):
problem is so many people see him and see the
change and have this reaction like, oh, that doesn't look natural. Um.
And then you couple it with a little bit of
feisty attitude with a cameraman who's just doing his job
after you've acted like a jerk, and it kind of
you see the responses. So that's why I don't think
(14:35):
this is a particularly attractive direction for the game to go.
So do you think people are going to mimic and
um recreate what Bryson de Chambeau is doing. Oh yeah, absolutely,
They're already guys doing it and and I think some
women are doing it on the LPGA, but mostly it's
a it's a male thing, um. And I think the
(14:58):
numbers support it that that the round of golf, the
more you are down the fairway over the course of
a season, you're just gonna increase your chances of having
shorter clubs. Into the hole and no matter what the
lie is, and and and you're gonna make more money.
It's it's it's just really that simple. But can people
recreate over four thousand calories a day single length irons
(15:22):
huge grips? I mean, I don't. I don't think that
people are going to create price in Deshambo because he's
so unique, Like, how can you do that? Jeff Well,
he's one of a kind in a lot of ways. Yes,
but I do think there are elements and and what
was his I mean, he's saying it's going to be generational.
His quote after the round was for me, I think
they are going to be people trying to hit it
(15:44):
a little harder some of them. But at the end
of the day, it's going to take a generation for
all this to evolve into something different. So that's the
question now before the governing bodies who are who are
dealing with this distance issue. Is he giving them an
opening to bring that point up and say, do we
want a generation from now to be all looking like
(16:06):
linebackers and swinging out of their shoes, or do we
want to retain elements of the game that allow Kevin
Kissner to compete with bryceon d Shambo when when both
players are on do we want to have variety? And
but I think the danger for them is that if
you look like you're picking on one player, which is
(16:26):
the same thing that happened with Tiger. There was a
fear of O are we overreacting on one player? And
how's that? That's not right? Nobody feels like that's right.
But Bryson is kind of providing you this visual of
what it will look like to go down this path,
and I mean, I'm hardened that a lot of people
(16:47):
are not feeling good about it. Let's say, so, are
you piste off about this? I mean, he's huge the
ball three yards? Are you angry that Bryson d Shambo
has um gone with the style? Or maybe a better
way to phrase it, Jeff, are you angry that golf
that the governing bodies have allowed players to explore these
(17:09):
avenues of hitting it this far? Yeah, that's the problem.
I'm not angry about what he's doing. I love it.
I think that he's highlighting the problem he is also
I have great admiration for his ability to have weight
all this and take this chance because nobody in the
history of the game has radically changed their body, either
gaining a ton of weight or losing a ton of weight,
(17:31):
and and really played great golf. It's a sport that
just those little sensitivities really get exaggerated. And so I
have great admiration for what he's doing. He's hitting the
ball fairly straight, maybe not as straight as the broadcasters
made it out to be, but no what what The
problem though, is that the equipment he has also allows
(17:52):
him to do this, and with just a few tweaks
to it, I think he'd be forced to throttle back
a little it, as would a few other people who
just kind of swing freely. And the question is is
that something that they're willing to go about trying to
to do and will it backfire on them because it
looks like they're targeting one guy. I don't know the
(18:15):
the the Devil's Advocate part of this, Jeff, and I
don't have any I mean, this is in my opinion,
I don't know much about it. That's why I'm asking you.
A lot of people say that if you roll back
the equipment and roll back the golf ball, Bryce and
d Shambo is still going to have an immense driving advantage.
Over the other guy and it will actually hurt the
(18:37):
other guy even more because they're even further from the
whole Do you do you buy that theory or what's
your thought on that? It all comes down to the execution.
Is it is it? Do they take ten dipples off
the ball that makes it spin a little bit more
and forces him to throttle back a little bit. We
want the really long player to have that advantage, but
(18:58):
if it's executed in a a where it um takes
advantage away from somebody who has genuine clubhead speed, that's
a problem that The reason most of us want to
do it is see it done is to prestec certain
golf courses, to see them play a certain way, to
see somebody have a chance, and to not see young
(19:19):
players saying, oh I've got to just pursue speed and
even if I get hurt. I mean, those things are
just not good paths to go down. So yeah, they
it's all about how they how they do it, and
that's why a lot of us have wanted to see
the driverhead possibly reduced for the pros. But it just
doesn't seem like they're even willing to think about going
down that that path it's it's all about the golf
(19:41):
ball and whether it can move a little bit more
and bring back some creativity. I mentioned on a little
introduction here, just just trying to get some imagination back
that what he's doing is impressive, but it's not a maginative. Yeah. Yes,
six PG eight tour wins. Though it's not like it's
out here. I mean this, I mean he's a top tens.
(20:02):
I mean he's now he's gotta wine of this style,
but I mean it's not. I feel like in order
for Bryson de Chambo to be as impactful as it
appears he could be, he'd have to win, you know,
maybe six or seven times a year with this playing style.
What do you think? Yeah? Yeah, well that and also, um,
(20:23):
the major championship play has to get better. His record
in the majors is not good and he hasn't won
a point yet in a team match competition. So there
are formats and courses that have exposed it. Um. So
maybe that's the good news is we're at the early stage.
But we've already you know, you're you're young. I've lived
through bomb and gouge before. We've been doing this for
a while and Like I said, I'm enjoying it because
(20:45):
it is highlighting the ridiculousness of where we've gotten with
the equipment that it that it allows somebody to swing
that hard and get away with some misses and and
and make somebody like him who is smart look at
the numbers and go, well, this is the way to
play and make the most amount of money and have
the most consistency and and reduce stress. Really, that's what
(21:09):
people forget to when you're when you're hitting wedges and uh,
pitching wedges and nine irons into holes all day and
other people are hitting seven to five iron in it. It. Uh,
it's amazingly less stressful way to play golf. So but
my main issue is we've just lost the imagination. And
and the reason I point to other sports is at
(21:29):
every sport that's gone down that path of power that
it promotes a less interesting athlete. Uh, it tends to
be a Now he's unusual, he's eccentric, but for the
most part, it tends to be a kind of dull um,
just just flat, uh, character free, seemingly athlete. When you
(21:51):
have shot shaping and you have some finesse, and you
and you have a kind of a sense of humor
about the way you attack the game, and you know,
like Alite Trevino or Jimmy Connors and tennis, it's more
fun for US fans and and golf I think just
would be uh in in a bad place if every
player is essentially Brooks, Kepta and and Bryson. Again, they're
(22:12):
they're two of the best quotes on the tour, but
there is a they turn off the casual fan. People
aren't drawn to them. We as golf fans, I'm drawn
to them because I know they are smart, and they
have interesting things to say, and I admire what they're
doing under pressure. But the casual fan just is not
warm to that kind of stuff. And uh and that's
what scares me a little bit. One of my final
(22:35):
questions for you, Jeff, would be this, So this is
a conversation that seemingly comes up every three or four months.
It seemed like it came up after the first tailor
made driving relief, after Matthew Wolf hit like three six
yards and you're gonna Hank finally caved. That's that's what
came up. But yeah, yeah, we're I mean, we're gonna
hear this again. Well, what Bryson D. Shambo was doing
(22:56):
right now be the lead to change, Like, will that
be the reason changes made? Or will we end up
having this conversation in two years and three years and
four years and so on. I do think he's gonna
end up forcing their hand. And they were already laying
the groundwork and then the pandemic hit and they put
everything on hold. But again, I just feel like the
(23:18):
visual is going to inspire so many people to go, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we we don't want our kids going and drinking six
milkshakes a day and having nine pieces of bacon and
breakfast and bulking up and then hoping they don't get injured. Um,
and it takes it. And by the way, this is
all going on in the warm weather. I don't know
if some of that what he's doing when it gets
(23:39):
a little bit cooler or he gets a little bit older,
how it will hold up. So that's I believe the
visual of it will I already is kind of reigniting
the conversation when really, in the grand scheme of things
and what's going on in the world, it's it's it's
pretty low on the priority list, all right. I have
one question for you as a big sports fan. I
(23:59):
laid out at the beginning of this and I have
a blog post which I know you'll you'll go and
read and you'll just love. But I want to I
want to hear what you think about this week's tournament,
which the PGA Tours showed zero imagination. They're gonna have
a slightly different course set up easier at Merefield Village.
You know, kudos to them for adding an event, work
day sponsoring. They're gonna have a a charitable component, but they're
(24:24):
just playing Merefield Village in order hundred fifty six players.
It's gonna be a little bit softer. Greens are gonna
be a little bit slower. The rough will be cut
on Wednesday, and then it won't be cutting in until
after the Memorial next week. Um. And I think originally
they thought, well, they're gonna be fans at the Memorial
and there won't be fans at this, so that'll differentiate
the two. Wow, we learned today no fans now at
the Memorial and that's just not a huge shocker. So
(24:49):
if they were to do something a little bit different,
tell me which of these you like the most. Uh,
reversing the nines so you see the front nine more,
which is a tougher nine for spectators normally to move around. UH,
reduce a tournament to fifty four holes allow the premier
golf leagues proposed idea of trying to shorten tournaments. UH.
Stable for scoring. Do you know what that is? I
(25:11):
do not, Yeah, most people don't. It's it's uh. It's
an old style scoring system still use a lot in
the UK. They use it once a year at the
vaunted Barracuda Championship, which I know is one of your
favorite stops on the tour. Based on the fact that
you don't know what Stable for Scoring is. Uh. And
the idea of it is basically to make players more aggressive.
You get big points for eagles and Bertie and then
(25:32):
at if anything over a double bogy you just pick up,
you get And that's the idea of the system. It's
kind of a speed of play aggression kind of concept. Um,
how about a ten club limit. That's another one I
threw out in this post that the players this week
go from fourteen to ten clubs. We hear their story,
their sob story about how inconvenient this is, and the
(25:54):
guys who are really imaginative tell you, you you know how
they're kind of manip be alighting their set of clubs.
And then twelve whole rounds. That was another one I
threw out. They could have reduced this to eighteen holes.
Just so you know, Jack Nicholas about eight nine years
ago was on a campaign to reduce to make twelve
holes cool, To make twelve holes is what golf should
(26:15):
have been. Um, he kind of got off that for
some reason. I think a little too soon. I think
he was a little ahead of his time. Now, remember
the first Open Championship in Presswick was twelve holes. Uh,
and to meet twelve holes is a sweet spot and
the amount of time you play. But do any of
those ideas sound interesting if they had done the implemented
one or a combination of those this week? The second
(26:38):
one you mentioned the four holes, if if they went
into fifty four holes, that would be the one I
would love to see strictly because you talked about strategy
with the ten club limit and the stable uh scoring, Well,
it also strategy differentiates in fifty four holes as well,
(26:59):
because you have less time to either makeup or gain
traction on the other guy. So moving day moves up
one day. You know, you only got three rounds moving
days in the second day. So basically it adds so
much more importance to every single round. You can't have
a seventy. You need to have three straight rounds in
(27:20):
the sixties. And I feel like if you know, if
you have a seventy or a seventy one or seventy two,
you're completely screwed. Dustin Johnson, he won the Travelers Championship.
He was seventy nine after the opening round. That's where
his place was. He would not have had any chance
in that tournament if it was four holes. That's a
great point. Yeah, I think it brings it just brings
(27:40):
that urgency that's a little bit different. That's why it
would be fun to see it play out. And they're
playing for a little less this week, so it would
have been even more um legitimate, I think, to say, hey,
you're playing for a little less a normal, so we're
only gonna play fifty four. He'll see how this goes. Now,
the Premier League, their concept is fifty four holes, but
the first two days or eight whole shotguns. Obviously, with
(28:01):
a hundred fifties six players, that wasn't doable. This would
have also allowed by the way the tournaments start on Friday,
so that might have encouraged a few more guys who
aren't playing both weeks to play both weeks and it
would have been one less round on the course because
the course is gonna take This is gonna be an
interesting hit. Now. They're blowing up the greens after the tournament.
They're regrassing and I think I'm not sure if they're
(28:23):
completely rebuilding them, but they are. They don't care if
the grass dies during the memorial on the weekend. They're
they're they're tearing them up right after the tournament. But uh,
great point, Tim, I I appreciate you adding an element
to my fifty four fole thing that I did not
add in the blog post at Jeff shackle for dot Com.
But urgency, I think that's a that's a great point though,
(28:45):
that it would bring just just a little more edge.
It would be it'd be fun to see, but we
won't know. So there you go. PJ Tour m blown opportunity.
Maybe next year if this event somehow survives, I don't
think it will, but you never know. Um, we'll see
so anyway, Hey, Tim, thanks so much, Thanks so much
for not watching the golf this weekend and making me
(29:08):
feel like a total loser sitting here watching it all.
You know, and pain. I mean, we won the bean bags, Matt,
you've seen it. It was intense. Wow, that's as Midwest
as it gets, my friend. I'm I'm very happy for
I thought it was cornhole. But what's what's the difference
between cornhole and the bean bag? I don't know. I
like saying bean bags, but okay, yeah, yeah, cornhole just isn't.
(29:29):
I don't It's not a good name. Yeah, all right, Tim,
thanks so much, have fun editing this here on the
Shock Show. Thanks. Let's take a brief pause from The
Shack Show and here from our sponsors. He is Tim Parrotka,
(30:01):
and he is the producer of The Shack Show, which
is a production of I Heart Radio. From more podcasts
from my Heart visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So until
next time, perhaps before the conclusion of the workday charity open,
or maybe sometime after or somewhere in between, depending on
what happens in the world, I will be back with
another Shack Show. Thank you,
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,
welcome to another Shack Show. If you were watching the
golf this weekend, a big ift, probably because of the
(00:20):
fourth of July holiday here in the United States, you know,
it was a It was a lively weekend on CBS,
despite the Rocket Mortgage Classic not having any fans on site,
and uh, it was a combination of factors. Obviously, there
was a little controversy on Saturday on July four, if
you weren't following Price and d Shambo got into it
(00:43):
with a photographer, a cameraman, excuse me, a television cameraman,
not a photographer, big difference and kind of went all
Howard Hughes that he didn't like that after throwing a
little tantrum and the bunker that the cameraman stayed on
him and real scary, weird kind of stuff, and uh
didn't back down after the round when asked about it
by Will Gray of golf Channel dot com, who was
(01:07):
actually out on the golf course watching something that doesn't
get to happen very often anymore in the in the
world of golf media, either because of of dying enterprises
or restrictions on tournaments right now that you can all understand. Anyhow,
it was a strange sag. I covered it on my site.
There were some good columns um. But it set things
up for Sunday, and of course, naturally De Shambo three
(01:30):
back goes on to win. But the real focus should
be to me about imagination and the way the game
is played and what he's done. And this is in
no way to take away from what de Shambo has done,
because if you look at the numbers over the course
of a season playing this kind of golf, which is
(01:52):
essentially bomb and gouge or hit it as hard as
you can and find it whatever you want to call it,
it works over the course of a seat. And now
he got his sixth PJ Tour win. He did it
on a golf course where I guess theoretically it should
not have worked because it's an old Donald Ross tree
lined um, difficult to shape the ball. So he's played
(02:14):
very well here on this tour return return at three
venues in particular that are known as places where say
Kevin Kissner who ended up having an ice finish on Sunday. Uh,
this is their week, these are these are their events
to to thrive because there maybe narrower, more exacting tests
of golf, and he just blew right over all that.
(02:36):
And so the thing that I would ask that you
consider in kind of pondering now that Bryson has a
week off and we don't aren't going to do the
Bryson Show for for for at least four or five days,
though I'm sure Jack Nicholas will be asked about it
early on in the memorial a week from now, but
(02:56):
we do get a reprieve. But I think it's a
great chance to wonder why this is unsettling for a
lot of people, those of us who live through the
bomb and gauge era in the early two thousand's when
they grew up rough to try and stop players from
doing this. I know that that doesn't work, That Lincoln
and golf courses doesn't work, makes it worse, um, But
(03:19):
the solution is obvious in terms of doing something with
the equipment. Bryson is able to generate the speed he
generates and go after the ball the way he does
because of the lighter shaft, the bigger head of the
driver UH and UM track man and a lot of
other things that allow him to optimize his his launch conditions,
(03:39):
and I say, good for him. He's he's outsmarting the
rulemakers and uh, targeting statistics and understanding what you have
to do, and I say, absolutely, go for it. Now
transforming your body. I think that's where he has opened
some eyes. You know, for years, those of us who
bitched and moan about technology and the state of the
(04:00):
game and all this kind of stuff have have suggested
that this love of making this game more about athleticism
and getting in the gym and getting big wasn't really
a great idea because it it could get out of hand.
And we we did see kind of a run in
the mid um two thousand's, early two thousands to to
(04:21):
I don't know, two thousand and fifteen sixteen, We're getting
big and strong was a big deal. We've seen now
players kind of throttle back and work more on flexibility,
not bricing. He's gone the other way, and uh, hey,
good for him that he can do this. But is
that really what golf wants to be? Doesn't want to
be a sport about braun and about getting buff and
(04:43):
and just generating speed. You know, there was an interesting
comment to about just how one dimensional it gets from
John Wood, who is Matt Kucher's caddy, one of the
real uh great minds out there on the tour and
uh good so all good spirit and he he marveled
at how Bryson really doesn't have to practice a mid
(05:05):
iron anymore. It's really about driving and the quality of putting.
And we've seen this trend where where that really is
the thing that can separate you bombing it being able
to put and everything in between is really not super important.
And is that what golf wants to become a one
(05:25):
dimensional or close to one dimensional sport. I happen to
think that's a mistake. I think it makes the game
less interesting to watch to play. I think you're seeing
it with young players now. They don't seem to enjoy
playing for fun as much as they used to. You know,
they're only a handful of players on the tour who
go play other golf courses just to see other courses
(05:47):
and and to have a fun game. A lot of them.
You'll you'll hear it in the comments, you know, or
during this pandemic, they shut it down. They shut it down.
It is it is um it's a job for them,
And I just wonder Ultimately, if that's a good thing.
As a fan, we want to see a variety of players.
We want to see imaginative golf, and we want to
see UH players having fun playing the game. And I
(06:09):
know Bryson maybe having fun what he's doing what he's doing,
and Matthew Wolf, who almost won the tournament, does exude
a certain joy when he plays, but so many of
the players don't um these days, and and and it's
we talked about it on the State of the Game
podcast with Jeff Vogilvy. That may just be the nature
of the sport too, that golfers never really look like
(06:31):
they're truly enjoying what they do. But that idea of
imagination I think is important. One because we have tracer
now and you can see the ball moving all that
fun stuff. And then the other reason I want to
bring up imagination before I talked to producer Tim who
loves this UH distance game, and we're gonna have a
little chat about about what transpired over the weekend. But
(06:51):
as we now moved to Merefield Village for two weeks
on the PGA Tour, the notion of imagination will come
up because they are playing back to tournaments there and
they're not showing a lot of imagination and how they
are trying to differentiate these two events. The first event
is sponsored by Workday. The purse is a little over
(07:11):
six million dollars. There's a charitable component that we're going
to hear about that. That's should be great because nationwide
the sponsor there of the memorial is very involved and
they're they're really a pretty incredible company. I've I've gotten
to see what they do there in Columbus, and so
that'll be great. In Merefield Village, very good golf course
the players generally really love, and they're gonna set it
(07:32):
up a lot easier the first week, and then they're
going to take the green speed up and the rough
up or at least allowed to grow as much as
it can between the two of our events. And I
assume they'll stop mowing it on Wednesday of this week.
And that's really the extent of it. And it's really
kind of a disappointment. I wrote a blog post that
Jeff Shackle for dot com, but if if you don't
(07:54):
want to go read it, I can spare you. The
the bullet points are are really pretty simple. They should
have reversed the nines at the bare minimum, so that
television shows us more of the front nine in week
one and more of the back nine during the Memorial.
The bigger obviously of the two events, which has player
field versus for this work day thing. Then I believe
(08:16):
it would have been a great chance to do something
a little more radical, maybe fifty four holes, maybe stableford scoring,
maybe a ten club limit. That would be an interesting
conversation piece early in the week. What are guys taking
out of their bag? What are their manufacturers adjusting for
them to fill gaps um something a lot of people
have wanted to see in in during this pandemic, a
(08:36):
lot of people have been forced to walk, so they've
taken clubs out of their bag and reported having a
blast playing a limited set. And I think it would
have been a great chance to play a twelve hole round.
And there was a perfect little routing there at Merefield
Village maybe would have allowed that, but anyhow, we'll never know.
But it's it's kind of another sign of this lack
of imagination that I think is really dangerous for pro
(09:00):
golf and for the game. That the beauty of golf
is is uh, it's variety. Seeing players be creative and
are we losing that in this push? I think we
already have lost it quite a bit, um, But I
hope that the next few weeks allow, with hopefully the
return of Tiger Woods and Jack Nicholas being around at
(09:23):
Merefield Village, a little more discussion about this notion of
imagination and is that something worth protecting and fighting for
in the sport? Anyway? Quick break here on the Shack Show,
and then I'm going to talk to producer Tim more
about this U Bryson thing and and the distance uh
push in golf. All Right, We're back on the Shack
(09:55):
Show and producer Tim Protka is here, and Tim loves
the power Game so much that he didn't watch the
Mortgage The Mortgage I can't even get the name right,
the Rocket Mortgage Classic. It just rolls off the tongue.
How could how could you not watch this important tournament?
Had the winner of the three m your hometown event,
Matthew Wolfe one of the great events in the history
(10:15):
of the game when he won that, how could you
not have recorded this and watched it like three times? Well, Jeff,
if I'm being completely honest here, I was dominating in
a cornhole bean bags game. And I couldn't leave for
for a tournament, for a classic that had four or
(10:36):
five of the top twenty players in the world and
only two or three in the top ten. I mean,
the field was boring, Jeff, I mean, why would I
be excited to watch a tournament with barely any of
the top players? Yeah, okay, fine, you're you're you're a
star person. I get that. I'm a golf course person.
(10:58):
Detroit Golf Club was really as an interesting golf course.
I think the other course at the club is probably
still more interesting, but it's very short and they can't
play that. So I watched for that and it was
actually CBS is best week. They had a really good week,
especially in the last day. They told the story of
what Bryson was doing, well, they didn't. They never addressed
(11:19):
what happened on Saturday when he he berated one of
their cameramen for for following him. Uh, like a cameraman
does They tend to They tend to shoot the golfer
that and follow them as they walk because you never
know and when the director might like to show something.
But they never addressed that. But they did a great
job telling the story, and some of these numbers of
(11:42):
how much he was out driving Troy Merritt by uh
even Jim nance and I'm sure this was Tom Spencer,
his trustee sidekick. I assumed they fed him this stat.
I don't think Jim had time to do the math
on this. But Tim he Bryson out drove Merrit by
four and twenty three total yards on the fourteen driving holes,
(12:03):
and then a hundred and forty three yards longer than
Wolf who was playing behind him on the same fourteen holes.
So I mean, this is thrilling, this power game, and
you weren't watching. I'm just I'm disappointed. But um, I
also don't blame you. It's because it's ultimately it's very
one dimensional golf. And you you make the point though
(12:26):
that there is a skill in this. Yes, absolutely, Why
or why wouldn't World Golf champions be playing on the
PGA Tour if it was all about hitting the long ball.
It's it's not. Bryson d Shambo also finished first in putting,
so that I mean he had to do that because
that's what the game is now, it's vomit and be
(12:47):
able to put well right, Well, I think the bigger
issue that I'm trying to advance beyond because Bryson, let's
face it, he's a polarizing figure and that doesn't help
the situation. Although I will say, after years of being
lectured about how these great athletes are just just athletes
(13:08):
and you just got to let it go. It's it's
not the equipment. It's funny in Bryson's case, people are
not really feeding me that one. I'm not. I'm not
hearing those lectures anymore, but probably because some people are
just conflicted about him. They don't like him, or they
don't like seeing what he's done to his body to
do this, which is my big issue more than anything,
the idea that their kids out there who will try
(13:31):
to copy this, or other good players who who already
are I mean, I know of several good players on
the tour who dumped instructors who couldn't get them the
speed that they needed. And I just think it's a dreadful,
uh direction to go in, because no sport that has
pursued this and pursued power and let's face it, the
(13:52):
sports to where they did it with their physique, they
ended up not really doing it very on the up
and up I happen to think Bryson is doing this
on the up and up. Um. We saw what he eats.
He and he works hard. I really believe that. I
I've dealt with him enough to know. I just don't
think he's the cheating type. I really don't. But the
(14:15):
problem is so many people see him and see the
change and have this reaction like, oh, that doesn't look natural. Um.
And then you couple it with a little bit of
feisty attitude with a cameraman who's just doing his job
after you've acted like a jerk, and it kind of
you see the responses. So that's why I don't think
(14:35):
this is a particularly attractive direction for the game to go.
So do you think people are going to mimic and
um recreate what Bryson de Chambeau is doing. Oh yeah, absolutely,
They're already guys doing it and and I think some
women are doing it on the LPGA, but mostly it's
a it's a male thing, um. And I think the
(14:58):
numbers support it that that the round of golf, the
more you are down the fairway over the course of
a season, you're just gonna increase your chances of having
shorter clubs. Into the hole and no matter what the
lie is, and and and you're gonna make more money.
It's it's it's just really that simple. But can people
recreate over four thousand calories a day single length irons
(15:22):
huge grips? I mean, I don't. I don't think that
people are going to create price in Deshambo because he's
so unique, Like, how can you do that? Jeff Well,
he's one of a kind in a lot of ways. Yes,
but I do think there are elements and and what
was his I mean, he's saying it's going to be generational.
His quote after the round was for me, I think
they are going to be people trying to hit it
(15:44):
a little harder some of them. But at the end
of the day, it's going to take a generation for
all this to evolve into something different. So that's the
question now before the governing bodies who are who are
dealing with this distance issue. Is he giving them an
opening to bring that point up and say, do we
want a generation from now to be all looking like
(16:06):
linebackers and swinging out of their shoes, or do we
want to retain elements of the game that allow Kevin
Kissner to compete with bryceon d Shambo when when both
players are on do we want to have variety? And
but I think the danger for them is that if
you look like you're picking on one player, which is
(16:26):
the same thing that happened with Tiger. There was a
fear of O are we overreacting on one player? And
how's that? That's not right? Nobody feels like that's right.
But Bryson is kind of providing you this visual of
what it will look like to go down this path,
and I mean, I'm hardened that a lot of people
(16:47):
are not feeling good about it. Let's say, so, are
you piste off about this? I mean, he's huge the
ball three yards? Are you angry that Bryson d Shambo
has um gone with the style? Or maybe a better
way to phrase it, Jeff, are you angry that golf
that the governing bodies have allowed players to explore these
(17:09):
avenues of hitting it this far? Yeah, that's the problem.
I'm not angry about what he's doing. I love it.
I think that he's highlighting the problem he is also
I have great admiration for his ability to have weight
all this and take this chance because nobody in the
history of the game has radically changed their body, either
gaining a ton of weight or losing a ton of weight,
(17:31):
and and really played great golf. It's a sport that
just those little sensitivities really get exaggerated. And so I
have great admiration for what he's doing. He's hitting the
ball fairly straight, maybe not as straight as the broadcasters
made it out to be, but no what what The
problem though, is that the equipment he has also allows
(17:52):
him to do this, and with just a few tweaks
to it, I think he'd be forced to throttle back
a little it, as would a few other people who
just kind of swing freely. And the question is is
that something that they're willing to go about trying to
to do and will it backfire on them because it
looks like they're targeting one guy. I don't know the
(18:15):
the the Devil's Advocate part of this, Jeff, and I
don't have any I mean, this is in my opinion,
I don't know much about it. That's why I'm asking you.
A lot of people say that if you roll back
the equipment and roll back the golf ball, Bryce and
d Shambo is still going to have an immense driving advantage.
Over the other guy and it will actually hurt the
(18:37):
other guy even more because they're even further from the
whole Do you do you buy that theory or what's
your thought on that? It all comes down to the execution.
Is it is it? Do they take ten dipples off
the ball that makes it spin a little bit more
and forces him to throttle back a little bit. We
want the really long player to have that advantage, but
(18:58):
if it's executed in a a where it um takes
advantage away from somebody who has genuine clubhead speed, that's
a problem that The reason most of us want to
do it is see it done is to prestec certain
golf courses, to see them play a certain way, to
see somebody have a chance, and to not see young
(19:19):
players saying, oh I've got to just pursue speed and
even if I get hurt. I mean, those things are
just not good paths to go down. So yeah, they
it's all about how they how they do it, and
that's why a lot of us have wanted to see
the driverhead possibly reduced for the pros. But it just
doesn't seem like they're even willing to think about going
down that that path it's it's all about the golf
(19:41):
ball and whether it can move a little bit more
and bring back some creativity. I mentioned on a little
introduction here, just just trying to get some imagination back
that what he's doing is impressive, but it's not a maginative. Yeah. Yes,
six PG eight tour wins. Though it's not like it's
out here. I mean this, I mean he's a top tens.
(20:02):
I mean he's now he's gotta wine of this style,
but I mean it's not. I feel like in order
for Bryson de Chambo to be as impactful as it
appears he could be, he'd have to win, you know,
maybe six or seven times a year with this playing style.
What do you think? Yeah? Yeah, well that and also, um,
(20:23):
the major championship play has to get better. His record
in the majors is not good and he hasn't won
a point yet in a team match competition. So there
are formats and courses that have exposed it. Um. So
maybe that's the good news is we're at the early stage.
But we've already you know, you're you're young. I've lived
through bomb and gouge before. We've been doing this for
a while and Like I said, I'm enjoying it because
(20:45):
it is highlighting the ridiculousness of where we've gotten with
the equipment that it that it allows somebody to swing
that hard and get away with some misses and and
and make somebody like him who is smart look at
the numbers and go, well, this is the way to
play and make the most amount of money and have
the most consistency and and reduce stress. Really, that's what
(21:09):
people forget to when you're when you're hitting wedges and uh,
pitching wedges and nine irons into holes all day and
other people are hitting seven to five iron in it. It. Uh,
it's amazingly less stressful way to play golf. So but
my main issue is we've just lost the imagination. And
and the reason I point to other sports is at
(21:29):
every sport that's gone down that path of power that
it promotes a less interesting athlete. Uh, it tends to
be a Now he's unusual, he's eccentric, but for the
most part, it tends to be a kind of dull um,
just just flat, uh, character free, seemingly athlete. When you
(21:51):
have shot shaping and you have some finesse, and you
and you have a kind of a sense of humor
about the way you attack the game, and you know,
like Alite Trevino or Jimmy Connors and tennis, it's more
fun for US fans and and golf I think just
would be uh in in a bad place if every
player is essentially Brooks, Kepta and and Bryson. Again, they're
(22:12):
they're two of the best quotes on the tour, but
there is a they turn off the casual fan. People
aren't drawn to them. We as golf fans, I'm drawn
to them because I know they are smart, and they
have interesting things to say, and I admire what they're
doing under pressure. But the casual fan just is not
warm to that kind of stuff. And uh and that's
what scares me a little bit. One of my final
(22:35):
questions for you, Jeff, would be this, So this is
a conversation that seemingly comes up every three or four months.
It seemed like it came up after the first tailor
made driving relief, after Matthew Wolf hit like three six
yards and you're gonna Hank finally caved. That's that's what
came up. But yeah, yeah, we're I mean, we're gonna
hear this again. Well, what Bryson D. Shambo was doing
(22:56):
right now be the lead to change, Like, will that
be the reason changes made? Or will we end up
having this conversation in two years and three years and
four years and so on. I do think he's gonna
end up forcing their hand. And they were already laying
the groundwork and then the pandemic hit and they put
everything on hold. But again, I just feel like the
(23:18):
visual is going to inspire so many people to go, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we we don't want our kids going and drinking six
milkshakes a day and having nine pieces of bacon and
breakfast and bulking up and then hoping they don't get injured. Um,
and it takes it. And by the way, this is
all going on in the warm weather. I don't know
if some of that what he's doing when it gets
(23:39):
a little bit cooler or he gets a little bit older,
how it will hold up. So that's I believe the
visual of it will I already is kind of reigniting
the conversation when really, in the grand scheme of things
and what's going on in the world, it's it's it's
pretty low on the priority list, all right. I have
one question for you as a big sports fan. I
(23:59):
laid out at the beginning of this and I have
a blog post which I know you'll you'll go and
read and you'll just love. But I want to I
want to hear what you think about this week's tournament,
which the PGA Tours showed zero imagination. They're gonna have
a slightly different course set up easier at Merefield Village.
You know, kudos to them for adding an event, work
day sponsoring. They're gonna have a a charitable component, but they're
(24:24):
just playing Merefield Village in order hundred fifty six players.
It's gonna be a little bit softer. Greens are gonna
be a little bit slower. The rough will be cut
on Wednesday, and then it won't be cutting in until
after the Memorial next week. Um. And I think originally
they thought, well, they're gonna be fans at the Memorial
and there won't be fans at this, so that'll differentiate
the two. Wow, we learned today no fans now at
the Memorial and that's just not a huge shocker. So
(24:49):
if they were to do something a little bit different,
tell me which of these you like the most. Uh,
reversing the nines so you see the front nine more,
which is a tougher nine for spectators normally to move around. UH,
reduce a tournament to fifty four holes allow the premier
golf leagues proposed idea of trying to shorten tournaments. UH.
Stable for scoring. Do you know what that is? I
(25:11):
do not, Yeah, most people don't. It's it's uh. It's
an old style scoring system still use a lot in
the UK. They use it once a year at the
vaunted Barracuda Championship, which I know is one of your
favorite stops on the tour. Based on the fact that
you don't know what Stable for Scoring is. Uh. And
the idea of it is basically to make players more aggressive.
You get big points for eagles and Bertie and then
(25:32):
at if anything over a double bogy you just pick up,
you get And that's the idea of the system. It's
kind of a speed of play aggression kind of concept. Um,
how about a ten club limit. That's another one I
threw out in this post that the players this week
go from fourteen to ten clubs. We hear their story,
their sob story about how inconvenient this is, and the
(25:54):
guys who are really imaginative tell you, you you know how
they're kind of manip be alighting their set of clubs.
And then twelve whole rounds. That was another one I
threw out. They could have reduced this to eighteen holes.
Just so you know, Jack Nicholas about eight nine years
ago was on a campaign to reduce to make twelve
holes cool, To make twelve holes is what golf should
(26:15):
have been. Um, he kind of got off that for
some reason. I think a little too soon. I think
he was a little ahead of his time. Now, remember
the first Open Championship in Presswick was twelve holes. Uh,
and to meet twelve holes is a sweet spot and
the amount of time you play. But do any of
those ideas sound interesting if they had done the implemented
one or a combination of those this week? The second
(26:38):
one you mentioned the four holes, if if they went
into fifty four holes, that would be the one I
would love to see strictly because you talked about strategy
with the ten club limit and the stable uh scoring, Well,
it also strategy differentiates in fifty four holes as well,
(26:59):
because you have less time to either makeup or gain
traction on the other guy. So moving day moves up
one day. You know, you only got three rounds moving
days in the second day. So basically it adds so
much more importance to every single round. You can't have
a seventy. You need to have three straight rounds in
(27:20):
the sixties. And I feel like if you know, if
you have a seventy or a seventy one or seventy two,
you're completely screwed. Dustin Johnson, he won the Travelers Championship.
He was seventy nine after the opening round. That's where
his place was. He would not have had any chance
in that tournament if it was four holes. That's a
great point. Yeah, I think it brings it just brings
(27:40):
that urgency that's a little bit different. That's why it
would be fun to see it play out. And they're
playing for a little less this week, so it would
have been even more um legitimate, I think, to say, hey,
you're playing for a little less a normal, so we're
only gonna play fifty four. He'll see how this goes. Now,
the Premier League, their concept is fifty four holes, but
the first two days or eight whole shotguns. Obviously, with
(28:01):
a hundred fifties six players, that wasn't doable. This would
have also allowed by the way the tournaments start on Friday,
so that might have encouraged a few more guys who
aren't playing both weeks to play both weeks and it
would have been one less round on the course because
the course is gonna take This is gonna be an
interesting hit. Now. They're blowing up the greens after the tournament.
They're regrassing and I think I'm not sure if they're
(28:23):
completely rebuilding them, but they are. They don't care if
the grass dies during the memorial on the weekend. They're
they're they're tearing them up right after the tournament. But uh,
great point, Tim, I I appreciate you adding an element
to my fifty four fole thing that I did not
add in the blog post at Jeff shackle for dot Com.
But urgency, I think that's a that's a great point though,
(28:45):
that it would bring just just a little more edge.
It would be it'd be fun to see, but we
won't know. So there you go. PJ Tour m blown opportunity.
Maybe next year if this event somehow survives, I don't
think it will, but you never know. Um, we'll see
so anyway, Hey, Tim, thanks so much, Thanks so much
for not watching the golf this weekend and making me
(29:08):
feel like a total loser sitting here watching it all.
You know, and pain. I mean, we won the bean bags, Matt,
you've seen it. It was intense. Wow, that's as Midwest
as it gets, my friend. I'm I'm very happy for
I thought it was cornhole. But what's what's the difference
between cornhole and the bean bag? I don't know. I
like saying bean bags, but okay, yeah, yeah, cornhole just isn't.
(29:29):
I don't It's not a good name. Yeah, all right, Tim,
thanks so much, have fun editing this here on the
Shock Show. Thanks. Let's take a brief pause from The
Shack Show and here from our sponsors. He is Tim Parrotka,
(30:01):
and he is the producer of The Shack Show, which
is a production of I Heart Radio. From more podcasts
from my Heart visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So until
next time, perhaps before the conclusion of the workday charity open,
or maybe sometime after or somewhere in between, depending on
what happens in the world, I will be back with
another Shack Show. Thank you,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com