May 22, 2020 • 39 mins
In episode 12 of the Shack Show, Geoff Shackelford highlights the uniqueness of Par 3 courses in this special feature which includes: Nick Faldo, Ben Crenshaw, Charlie Rymer and Michael Bamberger.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
The incredible, much needed, and long overdue return of the
Part three course on a special episode of The Shack Show.
(00:23):
Adults can play only when accompanied by a child. There
may not be a better sign in all of golf
than the green and yellow one fronting of fence alongside
North Barracks, infamous closing holes, right by the radan and
just steps from the historic Marine Hotel. We're just about
every golf grade has passed by while playing well, maybe
(00:44):
my favorite course on the planet. Defence and sign though
they let you know you're entering a Part three course.
That's four kids first and foremost, and it was originally
established as the Ladies Links, which was an nine hole
course at the time, and it's now the Children's course,
and it is designed to be a fun and playable
(01:06):
way to introduce the game to kids. If you're lucky
enough to be invited by a child, you can also
as an adult when you're shown short game, take in
the view from oh, i'd say top five golf real estate, uh,
and inevitably have some laughs. That's what a Part three
course is about. But more than that, the course is
(01:27):
one of many and maybe the best reminder that we
need a place to start in the game. Yeah, top
golfs are nice, and all these other kind of programs
first to all those things that get you in the game,
they're great. But most people who have played golf, and
the ones you're gonna hear from on the Shack Show
here today, either got their start on a Part three
(01:48):
or kind of fell in love with the game on
a Part three because the scale, the feeling of it,
and the welcomeness of just a place that isn't so
caught up in in championship golf that gives you a
place to start is really really important. North Barracks we
Links could be the most ideal because, in addition to
the fun factor, you as a young person, imagine being
(02:13):
teased and see that incredible big time course. It's right there,
You're right next to it, and that's something to aspire
to to play for two maybe someday get to play. Um.
It's also incredible because it really doesn't have a lot
of sand. It's just on based on undulations. UM. It
won't beat you up, but it will challenge you. And
(02:34):
I think that's the essence of any good Part three course.
If every big course in the world had something like
what North Barrack has, or what many other communities let
language when they fell out of vogue, which Part three
courses did, the game would be so much healthier. But
I have good news. Not only are Part three courses
enjoying a renaissance for all of the right reasons, they've
(02:58):
also helped legit mis rounds of golf that are not
eighteen holes harsh seventy two seven thousand yards kind of
the stock numbers, and I think that's really an important
factor in all of this. Obviously, the handicapped system changing
to allow for the turning into scores besides eighteen holes
(03:18):
was another factor. Um. But after much scratching, clawing, some luck, um,
the sport of golf mostly getting over this whole tough
guy approached to course design. The Part three course is
now in vogue again. So how did it happen? I
chalk up the renaissance to a few things. But first
(03:40):
understand that in the nineties many courses were built with
a Part three course joining them for all of the
right reasons that we love them today. They provided a
place for beginners to learn, for older golfers to still
have a walkable place to play when they've lost interest
in a full round, and even a place for good
golfers to hone their skills. Now the first in America
(04:04):
is believed to be bring Hers Golf Course in Alexandria, Louisiana,
which coincidentally was recently reopened after being closed for four years.
Another example, there was a nifty Part three right in
the middle of Riviera Country Club, host to the annual
PGA Tour event. It was designed by George Thomas and
Billy Bell and later abandoned to be a driving range,
(04:26):
which it is today and some of the greatest players
in the world have have practiced there and most of
them probably don't have a clue that it was a
Part three course at one time. And another one that
a lot of people don't know about. But thanks to
Josh Pettitt UH golf architect and researcher who is a big,
big fan of Alistair mackenzie, Augusta National originally had a
(04:48):
Part three course designed by the Good Doctor as part
of its original master plan for Augusta National. Now it
was never built due to financial constraints. Uh. And that's
something and you'll hear David Owen discussed later in this podcast,
but Bobby Jones and Clifford Robins did eventually build a
Part three course in the nineteen fifties. George Cobb was
(05:10):
the architect. No, I've always kind of wondered if Bobby
Jones really liked Part three's. He once called them kindergarten
courses and seemed to kind of question their viability. It was.
It was probably the one thing that I was kind
of wondered about why he went there, especially because I
guess the National did eventually build one had wanted to
build one. Mackenzie's was kind of built around, uh the
(05:32):
entrance drive today Magnolia Lane, and in an area right
off the clubhouse. Um so it's interesting that he was
he was lukewarm at one time. Anyhow, fast forward sixty
years or so and we start to see the makings
of the modern movement back towards an appreciation for Part
three courses. You know, they were built in that intervening time,
(05:55):
but usually they were basic. They were a tea in
a green, very big Ginner driven. Apparently the view was
that a beginner would be deterred from from playing something
like a bunker uh that or of course that looks
gasp interesting and even a little scary in spots, and
(06:17):
kind of that dumming down I think also contributed to
the lack of affinity for for a really good part
three course. They also suffered a shaming of sorts because
they were not eighteen holes. Often most times they were nine.
There were eighteen whole part threes, but most of the
time nine, so they were. Of course, we're not capable
(06:39):
of hosting a US Open, and elite players didn't like
to play them, So why would anybody else want to
do such a thing, build such a thing, and enjoy
such a thing? Um even the name you often heard
a pitch and put it sounded chintzy, I think, and
that was another kind of underlying factor amongst many As
a sport grappled with a lot of different things, but
(07:00):
but but essentially was locked into that sort of Robert
Trent Jones driven we need to build a championship course,
and anything else really isn't real golf. Of course, we
now know that that thinking was absurd. When I was
in college in the early nineties, some of my best
memories of laughing, competing and and harmless betting with my
(07:24):
teammates was at a place called the armad Hammer Golf
Course here in l A, which was once eighteen holes.
It's down to about fourteen now and it's just a
It is a pitch and punt. It's on Coculea grass
and um, it's right in one of the most expensive
neighborhoods on the planet Earth. It's a Olmstead Brothers Design Park,
has a little creek through it that has worked twice
(07:46):
in my lifetime, and yet it somehow functions as this
wonderful civic park where people can walk and they do
put the flag sticks out in the green fees about
three bucks. And it's right near u C l A.
So it was a place where a lot of us
l A's great golfers from their UM two time national
champion ship winning golf program went and also played for
(08:07):
fun and hone their incredible short games, people like Corey
Paven and I certainly know from playing it and made
my touch better, made my imagination better, and and just
that enjoyment factor made me love the sport even more.
Around that time, in a couple of high profile Part
three is Open that began the movement that really has
(08:30):
finally set in today Pine Valley, and it's Tom Fasio
and Ernie Ransom design short course which included replicas of
some holes on the Big Course, generally number one in
the United States. So that was pretty cool, and it
was arguably and remains arguably the the neatest place if
you could be welcome to join there and go practice
with a shag bag um to play shots into some
(08:52):
of those holes. As a Part three course kind of
lacks the things that we've come to love in these
part threes, which which is a communal experience, which is
seeing the other holes, hearing people laughing, hearing people kind
of going berserk when somebody almost makes a hole in one,
and just that overall intimacy factor that that I think
(09:13):
is really important. Around that time, also instructor and an
architect Rick Smith built one at the Tree Tops Resort
that hosted a televised event um and then the Olympic
Club a couple of years later added a J. Morrish
and Tom Wiskoff designed Part three on a spectacular piece
of land overlooking the ocean. A few years later, Mike
(09:35):
Hurdson and Dana Fry build a Part three in Hamilton's
Farms that was notably adored by Tiger Woods and Michael
Jordan when they played there, um over a couple of days.
They played it a lot more than they played the
Big course and supposedly preferred it, and you can imagine
those two having a good old time and maybe playing
for a dollar here or there. I think the big moment,
though I'm not really going on a limb here, came
(09:58):
in two thousand and eight when he sp in Man
began showing the Part three contests prior to the Masters.
Until that point it was it wasn't a secret event,
but it was never shown on television. You rarely saw
footage and it was just an incredible kickoff to the
week that you had to see well now on television.
I believe that while it was a marquee part of
(10:21):
Masters Week and the players and the people involved were
lucky enough to be involved with that, or anybody lucky
enough to go to August the National got to play
the Part three course. Um, we knew it was fun,
but seeing it on television, uh, seeing what that component
of a dream day of golf, which is getting to
(10:42):
play augusta National and the Part three course. Usually people
play it after the round. I believe. I have heard
stories over people playing beforehand as a as a warm up.
There's just something about that legitimization of a broadcast and
seeing hole in ones, watching the children of players who
caddy it, and their and their little outfits partaking in
the fun, and and then seeing the world's greatest golfers
(11:05):
on the eve of of you know, the biggest wink
of the year for a lot of them out there
having a blast. I think it really convinced the golfing collective,
and then people who were less knowledgeable about the game
but but we're kind of intrigued by it, or family
members of golfers. It it convinced them that, oh yeah, wow,
that there are other things about golf that are really
(11:26):
neat and doing it in a short amount of time
and having fun and a little more of a relaxed thing.
It's really kind of vital to the to the sport.
So then came this explosion of part three. He's built
at resorts and clubs and and and having those prestige
places I think really legitimize these weak courses. And um
also really uh mercifully made clear that the number of
(11:53):
holes did not matter. You know, sometimes ten holes is okay,
and sometimes twelve and um, and you'll oh from a
lot of those, they didn't just stick to a script
and trying to build nine or eighteen those those kind
of vaunted historically clean numbers. Hey, quick break here, let's
hear from our sponsors. In two thousand and ten, at
(12:21):
a place called the Prairie Club outside Valentine, Nebraska, I
had the privilege with Gill Hanson Jim Wagner to design
a ten hole Part three course called the Horse Course.
It sits next to the lodge at the Prairie Club,
and this majestic canyon with a river at the bottom,
and the idea was, of course, to replicate a lot
(12:41):
of the feelings that you get with other Part three courses.
The twist here was we built a set of teas,
but we also left room around the tees so that
you could conceivably play a version of the game of
horse and in basketball where the person who has the
honor gets to pick the shot and the location. And
while we gave prescribed teas and greens and even made
(13:03):
the first there's a little loop kind of around the
first hole in a few holes where you could only
be using a putter Um. The idea was to give
you that freedom to imagine shots, to maybe come up
with some some crazy goofy shots, and to have good
old fashioned fun. Uh it. Ultimately, it was I think
(13:24):
envisioned as a place to enjoy the evening sunset, have
a have a cocktail, take a couple of clubs, and
go have some fun. But what's been fun like any
part three course, is that I've heard people enjoy it
as a quick warm up before they're around. Also, um,
but maybe my favorite story of ball is that you
hear people go there and it takes a long time
(13:46):
to drive to get to the Prairie Club, and after
a long drive, you get to to this beautiful place.
But really going out and playing eighteen holes is is
work when you've been sitting in a car for five hours.
And the idea that you can just get in this
quick little round of golf and have some fun and
get a taste of the beauty of the place. I
(14:07):
just love hearing when people tell me that that it
did exactly what I had we all had helped it
would do, which was was kind of set the tone
for your visit. The master developer of Minimalist masterpieces. Mike
Kaiser says he drew inspiration from the horse course to
begin adding these short courses to his his retail golfer resorts.
(14:29):
Um in part because for many people, let's face an
eighteen holes is more than enough. And at a place
that a Mike Kaiser would develop abandoned Doon's a sand Valley,
a cabin cliffs, Uh, that is certainly a higher green fee.
It's an experience. Uh. You're not in a hurry to
get around those courses, but you're also not really looking
(14:52):
to play thirty six a day. So now here several
years later, he's added incredible well received below of Part
three courses that abandoned dunes, for instance, to preserve Sand
Valley has an incredible little uh Part three course and
uh even I think really more incredibly, Pinehurst took prime
(15:13):
real estate in front of their clubhouse and converted it
to the Cradle designed by Gil Hans, which when I
look closely at photos, I noticed that the turf is
training because it is just that popular and gets that
much play, which is so so cool at a place
like Pinehurst, which is the cradle of American golf and
has all these golf options and yet the Part three
(15:36):
course has become such a beloved uh component. And before
we get to these guests here in the Shack Show,
I promise we're gonna get to people who who have
something better to say than I do. But I think
the final piece and the Part three puzzle, that that
really has made this cool and okay and good for
(15:57):
good golfers to go out and play. And believe me,
a lot of the good players today really could use
the some Part three course work on their wedge game
when you when you watch them hit shots compared to
the golfers and really not that long ago. Now we
can debate what what the reason is for that, but
I really believe that having these good golfers kind of
(16:19):
give their blessing to Part three courses, and I say good,
I mean really good golfers has made a monumental difference.
George Speif built just the neatest little course on four
and a half acres for the University of Texas Golf Club.
It's right near the clubhouse. It is situated near the
University of Texas men's golf team and women's golf teams,
(16:40):
a practice area, and it is just a fun, fun
little course to hit shots on. It's a beautiful setting.
They've done a little few extra little things. There's some
music playing and um, some touches that that that allow
you to lean your clubs and with drink holders. It's
just it's just so well done. And to have a
young player are like that, uh, pushing something like a
(17:03):
Part three course and getting the good golfers on the
University of Texas golf team thinking that way and uh,
and it just gets the members and the older members
and the younger members of place to be inspired. But
of course there is no bigger name who has given
the Part three course credibility than Tiger Woods. Of course,
(17:23):
he is a product of a Part three golf course
that's heartwell and long beach. And when Tiger Woods got
into golf course design, he has made pitch and putts. Now,
I think it's cool to say that a big part
of the master plan at each place he's worked on,
you know, other than perhaps Jack Nicholas's grandson making an
(17:47):
ace in the Part three contest at Augusta that was
shown on every broadcast known to man when it happened
a couple of years ago. I don't know if there
was a moment more spectacular than when Woods opened the
part yard course at blue Jack National, where he designed
the main course. The smaller course is called the Playgrounds
(18:08):
and obviously was meant in Tiger's mind and the developer's
mind to be a place for for the kids. And
a young boy was chosen to hit the first shot,
and in the very first shot, with a huge crowd around,
with Tiger Woods standing there, the person who designed the course,
the legendary golfer, this young man made a hole in one,
(18:32):
and of course that was thankfully recorded for posterity. I
will post it in the show notes if you haven't
seen it or you've forgotten it. And I went back
and watched it. It's just it's just incredible when you
see the reaction. Tiger cannot believe, as he says, the
inaugural shot on the course is a hole in one.
It is just so so cool. And I've heard since
(18:53):
then that golf course the playgrounds has just been a
huge hit, and Tiger has it in the master Planet.
Other projects he's working on are has already built others,
and he is now also redesigning the Peter Hay Course
at Pebble Beach, where the people behind the lodge at
Pebble Beach have even recognized it's time to take that
beautiful course on a lovely setting in location up a
(19:17):
notch or twelve. Um. Of course, since then there have
been other fun twists on the Part three including the
bad Little Night at Scottsdale National. It looks like the
old world's uh, the old remember those calendars, the toughest
golf holes in the world, And uh, it just looks
crazy and fun and cookie and good for about Parsons
(19:37):
for creating something like that, taking things up a notch
when you you can do that, when you have a
club of of members who can handle such a thing. Um.
But mostly I think the innovation has been coming lately
where you see places taking odd parcels of land and
building just a few holes, or you see places taking
(19:58):
their driving range, rebuilding the targets and having the option
to turn that into a Part three course when they
go and pick up the balls and just decide today
is going to be the day that it's a Part
three course. Of course, these are all high end places
and places I'm talking about, and really I think the
best thing about the Part three movement, while it's great
(20:19):
to have those high end places setting the bar. It's
also allowed people to take a little more pride in
other Part three courses, and it's changed the way people
view them and view the importance of them. Things that
might have been written off and and are now cherished
for their small acreage and their ability to let a
(20:41):
new golfer go and find their way and and do
it all at a at a cheap price, and just
the way Tiger Woods did in in the late nineties
seventies with his dad down at Heartwell and Long Beach.
So here we are in the Shack Show, ten episodes
in and so after these episodes when I recorded them,
and I hope you if you haven't listened to them,
you'll enjoy them. I asked many of the guests who
(21:04):
I knew had some tie two Part three courses, had
played some of the great ones, or had actually designed
some of them, uh, to talk about them. And I
think you'll get a kick out of the variety of
the answers that they gave me. So you'll hear from,
among others, Nick Foulo and Ben Crenshaw about, uh, the
Part three courses that that they've played and know and
(21:25):
things like the one at Turnbury and Augusta National, or
one they've designed. Nick Faulo in particular has a real
love of them, and of course Ben Crenshaw as well,
and uh, they've seen their share of good one shot
holes and designed a few and and it's fun to
hear how these little golf courses have affected people in
(21:45):
the sport. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoy
this little roundup episode celebrating now ten episodes of The
Shack Show. Our sixth episode was with Sir Nick Faulo.
Here he is on Part three courses. You know, I
love pat threes. You know Part three courses because as
you know, we can ever make nine holes ridiculously easy,
(22:08):
or you could play nine whole Pat three course where
you would not break part you know, it could be
it could be that you take a harder you're taking
the nine hardest path threes across the world. You know
your your fourth Riviera and you copy a few of those,
or you do you you do your own interpretation of
a few great great path threes. Holmis you it would
(22:32):
be a lifetime achievement to shoot one under anyway, So
we know that we know the difference that so we
can make it super enjoyable, super fun, and we can
make it super challenging just because by saying, oh, nine
whole path three of course people get output. That doesn't
mean anything. Well, we know, as golf as it could
be a fantastic experience. So I'm I'm inviting golf cluffs
(22:52):
to look at their layouts and say, well, why don't
we have a little short course. What happens if we
put a t halfway down the first we wandered down,
we start from there and instead of going to the
second oh there, we'll just build a tea here and
go to the or that's the sixth green over there,
that's a lovely little shot over the woods. You know,
something different across a corner of the pond, going going
(23:14):
the other way, All that works. It's twenty yards. Or
where are we now, We're now on the side of
the six let's have a look. Oh actually we can
actually go back to the fourth green. Now we could
go across get me, so people could they could look
just with a little bit of work. And to be honest,
you don't even have to build tease. Get some nine mats.
Go and get nine good quality mats and just plum
(23:35):
and just plum come down there and just do it
for fun and going and see what we create. Um,
you know, I now design. I gave my guys brief
long time ago to build Part three courses that are
reversible things like that, so you can and that becomes
a real different challenge as well. Was there a Part
three Part three course in your life at some point that?
(23:59):
Because I'm seen it about Part three's two and I'm
going to do a podcast, I've been asking everybody was
there one in particular? No, I've never played a here
we are, I've never I'm talking all about this and
I've never come to a true part or have I
Did you play a Turnbury? Did you ever play that
one below the hotel? Yeah? We play that that that
(24:19):
little one. Okay, so yeah, and there's and there's a yes,
and there's Part three? Is that Glennie you have Augusta?
I believe too. Oh of course, excuse me? Yeah? That
well that's the mate. Yeah, you're right, that's the main
one in resting. But no, I know what you mean.
You haven't you haven't just stopped one day driving and said, hey,
let's go play the Part three course in the neighborhood. Now, yeah,
(24:41):
but I understand. Yeah, so yeah those ones are right
under around those Yeah they were there, Um, but I agree.
I mean, you know, we've got to keep. Hopefully we
can campaign this because you know, you know, we get
projects that resorts, hotels and say we'd like golf, and
they say, well, we want and they get stuck and
we want sempty two holes of course in your life
(25:04):
and we know it's and we scream and say, look
we could actually build you some really fun things. Um,
that would be And I think people might start thinking that,
you know, because you really want family and family, entertainment,
the time factor, you know, the money there everything up keep. Yeah,
(25:25):
it's been happening already, Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, all these places.
Clubs are now rethinking. Yeah, absolutely well, but what doesn't
sending a golf club may have a most wonderful little
what doesn't have to be could be six nine twelve
holes path is where you go and play the course
and you hop around holes. And I would have thought
(25:45):
if they sat and looked at their maps and so
we could go there there, there, there there and go,
well how about that for loop? We do that every
Sunday for a laugh for a couple of hours. We
open it up one morning a week and try it
and see what people think. Yeah, I can't see any
harm in not to hate to introduce new people to
the game and and be hey, it might be nice
(26:08):
for the members to do something different, and you never
know what you might create. I think it's a it's
of course, we played the one that's that's the only
one that's really purpose part from Augusta, the the one
in Best Pro Show and now here is Episode three
guests Ben Crenshaw. Oddly enough, there was a little golf
(26:29):
course called Butler Park Pitch Well. Of course, I don't
know when, you know, since your dad has has gotten
a hold of it, I don't know. I can't remember
the year that they started Scotty Wood, sure know, but
I know this that as a little junior we'd go
(26:49):
over there occasionally and there were there was fun. It
was fun to play, you know. Bobby Jones made a
comment I always have never really quite grasped in him
Kindergartener Narner courses, and I feel like he had a
conflicted relationship about part threes. And I'm not really sure why,
but it seems to me like this movement we're seeing.
(27:12):
Of course, it's ironically a lot of it goes back
to the Part three course at Augusta for a lot
of people. But I feel like it's just a phenomenal
thing and long overdue thing for the game to have
more facilities, either adding them or places and communities treasuring
them a little bit more because of the pinehursts and
the Augusta's and and abandons and doing it. Um is
(27:34):
that is that your sense? Do you think therefore they're ideals?
They're ideal that I think the only the only drawbacks
from a uh and an operator's standpoint is is that
the expense and upkeep uh. You know, you know a
(27:54):
lot of people like ourselves. You know, you build a
golf course and then somebody has a thought as well,
let's try to do it Part three course, and and
you you think you think about labor and water and
expense to take care of him. But stand alone, they're
they're they're fantastic for a very municipality. Do you think
(28:19):
they should be designed just to be played with just
a few clubs? Is that is that your ideal Part
three a wedge, a putter and maybe a nine iron
or something and is that is that the that's kind
of what you've done it at the Sand Valley. Yeah,
we did. I mean that was I can't tell you
how much fun that was. And uh we left. We
(28:43):
left Jim Craig to his own devices for some of that,
and he came up with some beautiful ideas. But I
had the bottom line, Jeff, it's so much fun. Every
people just love that. They go out and play it
and they play no time. Uh, and it's it's it's enjoyment,
(29:08):
it's uh as fellowship and hospitality and it's just fun.
Did you last question that's the one at Turnbury, Uh,
in front of the hotel. Didn't you have some fun
times there? Oh? Yeah, dead we would always. I can remember.
I can remember doing that with Bill Rogers, Bruce Let's key.
(29:30):
It was just just so much fun, you know, right,
you know, right before dinner, you know, you could know
all of those were out there knocking the balls around
with it, but everybody was fun. Well, it's neat to
see them getting at it and Mike Kaiser and everybody, uh,
trying to make sure that's part of the equation. Maybe
(29:51):
Dickie Dick Young's capital K one of these days, right,
and he's on the brink. This is the most exciting
thing I've heard all Oh he started thinking about labor
costs and water. That's dick, what about water? If you
got all the water in the world, Yeah, but you
got a light pipe. You thinking about the guys that
(30:13):
we have on our labor crew. Oh, Dick, you just
can't make it easy. Canny. It's where would he do it?
Where would it be on the way to the to
the course. Now, well, yeah, some of it. It would
be um from that maintenance road. Start there, you start
there and you finish over by the putting green. Right,
(30:38):
that would be perfect. I always wondered about that. Yeah,
that's the spot that is so exciting. Yeah, well, Dick
will find a way to make it his idea. Soon
it'll happen. It'll it's the only thing lacking there that
just would be so perfect at the end of the day.
Because that's what I keep hearing for people is how
much they love that end of the day. Everybody gets
(31:02):
together and the Prairie Club, the one we did there,
it's done exactly that. It's or some people. Some people
they first check in and then they just go out
and play it I've had a couple of guys right there.
You know, you dry all day and you don't have
time to play, but you just go out in the
evening and it's just you just feel alive, absolutely absolutely
there there. I don't there's not there's not a little
(31:24):
Part three anywhere in the world that's not enjoyable. I
know you can make them fun even when they're boring.
They're fun there there because they're just there's something about
the That's why when you can talk about the ball
going so far, you try to explain to people just
that the you know, the how you get spread out
and there's no companionship, there's no Part three. It kind
(31:46):
of brings it together and it's just a different kind
of experience sou and people are experiencing it though, which
is neat now here is episode two guests Charlie Reymer, Well,
they didn't have at all other than when I would
from about age six, I'd get to go two guests
every year. Of course you couldn't really walk down there
(32:07):
and look at the Part three, but but get in it.
But you could see that was over there, So that
was really the only one I got a chance to see.
But I'd say about six eight years ago I started
going over to Bermuda every year to play. And and
what was the Gray Goose World Part three Championship. Great, Yeah,
Grey Goose is no longer the sponsor. I believe Goslings
(32:29):
uh which is which is a run company over there
and reviewed to a sponsitive this year. But I think
maybe six or seven years in a row I played
in that World Championship and and it was held still
as at at the Fairmont Southampton and the golf courses
as turtle Hill, and it's just absolutely beautiful and uh
hard golf course. You know it's not because it's long
(32:51):
and just the wind can be a little tricky. We
play it uh always in the first week of March
over there, late late February sometimes in the wind is
just brewed. But I absolutely love Part three golf. It
doesn't take as long as a great place to start,
a great place to work on your game, or if
you're just you're looking to have fun, get out there
and part that's eighteen holes put togethers in great shape
(33:13):
over there in Bermuda, uh and have my best finished ever.
Last year I finished the leventh place, so I was
pretty bumped about that, And and I could play golf
steel shack if I didn't have to driver very much.
But all three golf answers a lot of the questions
that we have out there. In fact, I think we're
gonna see a lot of golf courses in the right
location maybe go to Part three type format and and
(33:38):
and a practice format and then change what the clubhouse
is and then sell off the rest of property they
don't need. And some of these urban golf courses that
are and that are in areas where the real estate
is worth so much you can keep some sort of
golf operation there, have some Part three have a gym,
sports bar, fitting center, everything you need to have. It's
gonna make sense for for private held golf courses or
(34:02):
um country clubs that are struggling. They can get a
pretty good junk for their real estate and then keep
some of it and have something that that that's that's
pretty neat uh where where it used to be in
a normal eighteen whole uh full country club facility. I
think a lot of smart folks are going to be
looking at trying to pull that model off here at
some point. Yeah. I think that's the interesting thing is
(34:25):
how you do it and and give people a place
to still sort of stay connected to the game. But uh,
but also acknowledge that when people want to have a
lot of time to play golf, they go to Hilton
and Myrtle Beach and and resorts and then but when
they live near a city, they just need something to
kind of maintain their game and take the family and
(34:46):
whatever else. So like that, and he should deliver a
lot more than just golf. Yeah, um, and and I
think that I think we're gonna see a good bit
of that. Here is Episode one guest Michael Hamburger. The
first Part three course I ever played was Augusta Nationals
in the early nineties, and I could not believe how
(35:08):
difficult that course is. I mean, those greens are tiny,
and of course you don't hit the green you know
you're you're in the water on the half of them
or give up more. Uh So that was the first
one I played, and I played a bunch since then
on the Part three course in Palm Beach County, about
four or five miles south of Mara Lago. For those
for whom that's a meaningful reference, Have you ever have
(35:30):
you ever played there? Jeff No I read your piece
about it, and I really want to go there. It
looks spectacular. Yeah, well, it's absolutely beautiful and the pizzas
great there. They've gotta pizza the restaurant, and they've got
a grass driving range, so you really can't beat it. Wow.
You don't hear very often of golf courses with great pizza.
Did they have an outdoor oven or what? What? What
is what's the what's great about it? I think I
(35:52):
don't know. That's no, it's not outdoors. It's an indoor
oven because I know, I know you can't see it,
but it's definitely that extreme heat five five or north
degrees are and I I'm sure because it comes out
really quickly and it's got the uh it's got the
very raised crusts and a little burnt in the bubbly spots,
which I prefer. And uh, you know, it's a thin
(36:13):
dough type and it's not overly sauce, it's not overly cheese.
So you feel like you could actually eat one of
those pies and then go for a swim or or
play golf afterwards. You don't have that d and feel
like you have in Chicago after their pie. Yeah, those
are a little heavy. So it's an eighteen hole Part
three it is. It's eighteen Part three and originally by
Dick Wilson and then redone by. What do you make
(36:36):
of this movement to add Part threes to either resorts
or country clubs or just try and rejuvenate them in
a public setting. I think it's absolutely fantastic because, uh,
you don't need an all day commitment to it. You
don't need five years of lessons until you can, you know,
at least try to play on a Part three course.
(36:58):
It's why the way there's a lot of Part three
corps is that for seniors and for and for kids,
they don't even know that it is a Part three course.
They'll just think it's a golf course because they're not
going to reach the greens, or they're you know, they're
going to talk a shot and then pitch it on whatever. Uh.
So my feeling is it's a great game. Your game
is gonna be rich, your life's gonna be enriched by
playing it. And if that's the path to get people
(37:19):
on it, uh, that's terrific. You know, Part three course
I've never played, but I've seen it. Uh, is the
I believe it's a wis golf course at Olympic and
the dunes. There is that still a going thing? Do
you know? It is still a going thing. I think
there are some thoughts to possibly altering it somehow, but
it is still very much there. And and the club
(37:40):
value values having a part three course as far as
I know from from members. Yeah, that's that's scar um. Yeah,
it's it's an interesting movement. I I think it's also
good for good players to get out on them more.
I I see a lot of elite players who just
to me that the biggest decline in skill of top
(38:02):
players today is is from about hundred and ten yards in.
I just don't see. And I don't know if it's
the golf ball, if if it's a harder golf ball.
Um Justin Thomas is one of the rare ones who
kind of hits a light cut with those shots, and
so his ball lands softer, and he's very good from
that distance generally, and and speech is, and Zack Johnson
(38:24):
still is obviously. But it just seemed to me there
used to be a lot more players who were unbelievable
from that distance, and and and many more now who
are very average. And now a word from our sponsors.
(38:44):
I hope you enjoyed hearing from all these guests so
far on the Shack Show. I hope you feel like
we're off to a good start. I do too. It was, though,
really fascinating, how just going a little bit deeper on
this topic hearing them speak, Uh, I think made me
appreciate Part three courses even more. And I didn't know
what I was gonna get necessarily from each guests, and um,
(39:05):
I think it was really fascinating. I hope this renaissance
keeps happening. Obviously in these tough times, it's gonna be
a challenge for some courses budget wise, but for all
of us to enjoy the sport and for the sport
to continue to grow, I'm pretty sure it's abundantly clear
now what the Part three course means to golf. As always,
(39:28):
A Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'd like to thank producer Tim Perrotica for putting together
this show and splicing all of these great comments together
and doing a great job making me sound good. The
Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I heart radio, app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
The incredible, much needed, and long overdue return of the
Part three course on a special episode of The Shack Show.
(00:23):
Adults can play only when accompanied by a child. There
may not be a better sign in all of golf
than the green and yellow one fronting of fence alongside
North Barracks, infamous closing holes, right by the radan and
just steps from the historic Marine Hotel. We're just about
every golf grade has passed by while playing well, maybe
(00:44):
my favorite course on the planet. Defence and sign though
they let you know you're entering a Part three course.
That's four kids first and foremost, and it was originally
established as the Ladies Links, which was an nine hole
course at the time, and it's now the Children's course,
and it is designed to be a fun and playable
(01:06):
way to introduce the game to kids. If you're lucky
enough to be invited by a child, you can also
as an adult when you're shown short game, take in
the view from oh, i'd say top five golf real estate, uh,
and inevitably have some laughs. That's what a Part three
course is about. But more than that, the course is
(01:27):
one of many and maybe the best reminder that we
need a place to start in the game. Yeah, top
golfs are nice, and all these other kind of programs
first to all those things that get you in the game,
they're great. But most people who have played golf, and
the ones you're gonna hear from on the Shack Show
here today, either got their start on a Part three
(01:48):
or kind of fell in love with the game on
a Part three because the scale, the feeling of it,
and the welcomeness of just a place that isn't so
caught up in in championship golf that gives you a
place to start is really really important. North Barracks we
Links could be the most ideal because, in addition to
the fun factor, you as a young person, imagine being
(02:13):
teased and see that incredible big time course. It's right there,
You're right next to it, and that's something to aspire
to to play for two maybe someday get to play. Um.
It's also incredible because it really doesn't have a lot
of sand. It's just on based on undulations. UM. It
won't beat you up, but it will challenge you. And
(02:34):
I think that's the essence of any good Part three course.
If every big course in the world had something like
what North Barrack has, or what many other communities let
language when they fell out of vogue, which Part three
courses did, the game would be so much healthier. But
I have good news. Not only are Part three courses
enjoying a renaissance for all of the right reasons, they've
(02:58):
also helped legit mis rounds of golf that are not
eighteen holes harsh seventy two seven thousand yards kind of
the stock numbers, and I think that's really an important
factor in all of this. Obviously, the handicapped system changing
to allow for the turning into scores besides eighteen holes
(03:18):
was another factor. Um. But after much scratching, clawing, some luck, um,
the sport of golf mostly getting over this whole tough
guy approached to course design. The Part three course is
now in vogue again. So how did it happen? I
chalk up the renaissance to a few things. But first
(03:40):
understand that in the nineties many courses were built with
a Part three course joining them for all of the
right reasons that we love them today. They provided a
place for beginners to learn, for older golfers to still
have a walkable place to play when they've lost interest
in a full round, and even a place for good
golfers to hone their skills. Now the first in America
(04:04):
is believed to be bring Hers Golf Course in Alexandria, Louisiana,
which coincidentally was recently reopened after being closed for four years.
Another example, there was a nifty Part three right in
the middle of Riviera Country Club, host to the annual
PGA Tour event. It was designed by George Thomas and
Billy Bell and later abandoned to be a driving range,
(04:26):
which it is today and some of the greatest players
in the world have have practiced there and most of
them probably don't have a clue that it was a
Part three course at one time. And another one that
a lot of people don't know about. But thanks to
Josh Pettitt UH golf architect and researcher who is a big,
big fan of Alistair mackenzie, Augusta National originally had a
(04:48):
Part three course designed by the Good Doctor as part
of its original master plan for Augusta National. Now it
was never built due to financial constraints. Uh. And that's
something and you'll hear David Owen discussed later in this podcast,
but Bobby Jones and Clifford Robins did eventually build a
Part three course in the nineteen fifties. George Cobb was
(05:10):
the architect. No, I've always kind of wondered if Bobby
Jones really liked Part three's. He once called them kindergarten
courses and seemed to kind of question their viability. It was.
It was probably the one thing that I was kind
of wondered about why he went there, especially because I
guess the National did eventually build one had wanted to
build one. Mackenzie's was kind of built around, uh the
(05:32):
entrance drive today Magnolia Lane, and in an area right
off the clubhouse. Um so it's interesting that he was
he was lukewarm at one time. Anyhow, fast forward sixty
years or so and we start to see the makings
of the modern movement back towards an appreciation for Part
three courses. You know, they were built in that intervening time,
(05:55):
but usually they were basic. They were a tea in
a green, very big Ginner driven. Apparently the view was
that a beginner would be deterred from from playing something
like a bunker uh that or of course that looks
gasp interesting and even a little scary in spots, and
(06:17):
kind of that dumming down I think also contributed to
the lack of affinity for for a really good part
three course. They also suffered a shaming of sorts because
they were not eighteen holes. Often most times they were nine.
There were eighteen whole part threes, but most of the
time nine, so they were. Of course, we're not capable
(06:39):
of hosting a US Open, and elite players didn't like
to play them, So why would anybody else want to
do such a thing, build such a thing, and enjoy
such a thing? Um even the name you often heard
a pitch and put it sounded chintzy, I think, and
that was another kind of underlying factor amongst many As
a sport grappled with a lot of different things, but
(07:00):
but but essentially was locked into that sort of Robert
Trent Jones driven we need to build a championship course,
and anything else really isn't real golf. Of course, we
now know that that thinking was absurd. When I was
in college in the early nineties, some of my best
memories of laughing, competing and and harmless betting with my
(07:24):
teammates was at a place called the armad Hammer Golf
Course here in l A, which was once eighteen holes.
It's down to about fourteen now and it's just a
It is a pitch and punt. It's on Coculea grass
and um, it's right in one of the most expensive
neighborhoods on the planet Earth. It's a Olmstead Brothers Design Park,
has a little creek through it that has worked twice
(07:46):
in my lifetime, and yet it somehow functions as this
wonderful civic park where people can walk and they do
put the flag sticks out in the green fees about
three bucks. And it's right near u C l A.
So it was a place where a lot of us
l A's great golfers from their UM two time national
champion ship winning golf program went and also played for
(08:07):
fun and hone their incredible short games, people like Corey
Paven and I certainly know from playing it and made
my touch better, made my imagination better, and and just
that enjoyment factor made me love the sport even more.
Around that time, in a couple of high profile Part
three is Open that began the movement that really has
(08:30):
finally set in today Pine Valley, and it's Tom Fasio
and Ernie Ransom design short course which included replicas of
some holes on the Big Course, generally number one in
the United States. So that was pretty cool, and it
was arguably and remains arguably the the neatest place if
you could be welcome to join there and go practice
with a shag bag um to play shots into some
(08:52):
of those holes. As a Part three course kind of
lacks the things that we've come to love in these
part threes, which which is a communal experience, which is
seeing the other holes, hearing people laughing, hearing people kind
of going berserk when somebody almost makes a hole in one,
and just that overall intimacy factor that that I think
(09:13):
is really important. Around that time, also instructor and an
architect Rick Smith built one at the Tree Tops Resort
that hosted a televised event um and then the Olympic
Club a couple of years later added a J. Morrish
and Tom Wiskoff designed Part three on a spectacular piece
of land overlooking the ocean. A few years later, Mike
(09:35):
Hurdson and Dana Fry build a Part three in Hamilton's
Farms that was notably adored by Tiger Woods and Michael
Jordan when they played there, um over a couple of days.
They played it a lot more than they played the
Big course and supposedly preferred it, and you can imagine
those two having a good old time and maybe playing
for a dollar here or there. I think the big moment,
though I'm not really going on a limb here, came
(09:58):
in two thousand and eight when he sp in Man
began showing the Part three contests prior to the Masters.
Until that point it was it wasn't a secret event,
but it was never shown on television. You rarely saw
footage and it was just an incredible kickoff to the
week that you had to see well now on television.
I believe that while it was a marquee part of
(10:21):
Masters Week and the players and the people involved were
lucky enough to be involved with that, or anybody lucky
enough to go to August the National got to play
the Part three course. Um, we knew it was fun,
but seeing it on television, uh, seeing what that component
of a dream day of golf, which is getting to
(10:42):
play augusta National and the Part three course. Usually people
play it after the round. I believe. I have heard
stories over people playing beforehand as a as a warm up.
There's just something about that legitimization of a broadcast and
seeing hole in ones, watching the children of players who
caddy it, and their and their little outfits partaking in
the fun, and and then seeing the world's greatest golfers
(11:05):
on the eve of of you know, the biggest wink
of the year for a lot of them out there
having a blast. I think it really convinced the golfing collective,
and then people who were less knowledgeable about the game
but but we're kind of intrigued by it, or family
members of golfers. It it convinced them that, oh yeah, wow,
that there are other things about golf that are really
(11:26):
neat and doing it in a short amount of time
and having fun and a little more of a relaxed thing.
It's really kind of vital to the to the sport.
So then came this explosion of part three. He's built
at resorts and clubs and and and having those prestige
places I think really legitimize these weak courses. And um
also really uh mercifully made clear that the number of
(11:53):
holes did not matter. You know, sometimes ten holes is okay,
and sometimes twelve and um, and you'll oh from a
lot of those, they didn't just stick to a script
and trying to build nine or eighteen those those kind
of vaunted historically clean numbers. Hey, quick break here, let's
hear from our sponsors. In two thousand and ten, at
(12:21):
a place called the Prairie Club outside Valentine, Nebraska, I
had the privilege with Gill Hanson Jim Wagner to design
a ten hole Part three course called the Horse Course.
It sits next to the lodge at the Prairie Club,
and this majestic canyon with a river at the bottom,
and the idea was, of course, to replicate a lot
(12:41):
of the feelings that you get with other Part three courses.
The twist here was we built a set of teas,
but we also left room around the tees so that
you could conceivably play a version of the game of
horse and in basketball where the person who has the
honor gets to pick the shot and the location. And
while we gave prescribed teas and greens and even made
(13:03):
the first there's a little loop kind of around the
first hole in a few holes where you could only
be using a putter Um. The idea was to give
you that freedom to imagine shots, to maybe come up
with some some crazy goofy shots, and to have good
old fashioned fun. Uh it. Ultimately, it was I think
(13:24):
envisioned as a place to enjoy the evening sunset, have
a have a cocktail, take a couple of clubs, and
go have some fun. But what's been fun like any
part three course, is that I've heard people enjoy it
as a quick warm up before they're around. Also, um,
but maybe my favorite story of ball is that you
hear people go there and it takes a long time
(13:46):
to drive to get to the Prairie Club, and after
a long drive, you get to to this beautiful place.
But really going out and playing eighteen holes is is
work when you've been sitting in a car for five hours.
And the idea that you can just get in this
quick little round of golf and have some fun and
get a taste of the beauty of the place. I
(14:07):
just love hearing when people tell me that that it
did exactly what I had we all had helped it
would do, which was was kind of set the tone
for your visit. The master developer of Minimalist masterpieces. Mike
Kaiser says he drew inspiration from the horse course to
begin adding these short courses to his his retail golfer resorts.
(14:29):
Um in part because for many people, let's face an
eighteen holes is more than enough. And at a place
that a Mike Kaiser would develop abandoned Doon's a sand Valley,
a cabin cliffs, Uh, that is certainly a higher green fee.
It's an experience. Uh. You're not in a hurry to
get around those courses, but you're also not really looking
(14:52):
to play thirty six a day. So now here several
years later, he's added incredible well received below of Part
three courses that abandoned dunes, for instance, to preserve Sand
Valley has an incredible little uh Part three course and
uh even I think really more incredibly, Pinehurst took prime
(15:13):
real estate in front of their clubhouse and converted it
to the Cradle designed by Gil Hans, which when I
look closely at photos, I noticed that the turf is
training because it is just that popular and gets that
much play, which is so so cool at a place
like Pinehurst, which is the cradle of American golf and
has all these golf options and yet the Part three
(15:36):
course has become such a beloved uh component. And before
we get to these guests here in the Shack Show,
I promise we're gonna get to people who who have
something better to say than I do. But I think
the final piece and the Part three puzzle, that that
really has made this cool and okay and good for
(15:57):
good golfers to go out and play. And believe me,
a lot of the good players today really could use
the some Part three course work on their wedge game
when you when you watch them hit shots compared to
the golfers and really not that long ago. Now we
can debate what what the reason is for that, but
I really believe that having these good golfers kind of
(16:19):
give their blessing to Part three courses, and I say good,
I mean really good golfers has made a monumental difference.
George Speif built just the neatest little course on four
and a half acres for the University of Texas Golf Club.
It's right near the clubhouse. It is situated near the
University of Texas men's golf team and women's golf teams,
(16:40):
a practice area, and it is just a fun, fun
little course to hit shots on. It's a beautiful setting.
They've done a little few extra little things. There's some
music playing and um, some touches that that that allow
you to lean your clubs and with drink holders. It's
just it's just so well done. And to have a
young player are like that, uh, pushing something like a
(17:03):
Part three course and getting the good golfers on the
University of Texas golf team thinking that way and uh,
and it just gets the members and the older members
and the younger members of place to be inspired. But
of course there is no bigger name who has given
the Part three course credibility than Tiger Woods. Of course,
(17:23):
he is a product of a Part three golf course
that's heartwell and long beach. And when Tiger Woods got
into golf course design, he has made pitch and putts. Now,
I think it's cool to say that a big part
of the master plan at each place he's worked on,
you know, other than perhaps Jack Nicholas's grandson making an
(17:47):
ace in the Part three contest at Augusta that was
shown on every broadcast known to man when it happened
a couple of years ago. I don't know if there
was a moment more spectacular than when Woods opened the
part yard course at blue Jack National, where he designed
the main course. The smaller course is called the Playgrounds
(18:08):
and obviously was meant in Tiger's mind and the developer's
mind to be a place for for the kids. And
a young boy was chosen to hit the first shot,
and in the very first shot, with a huge crowd around,
with Tiger Woods standing there, the person who designed the course,
the legendary golfer, this young man made a hole in one,
(18:32):
and of course that was thankfully recorded for posterity. I
will post it in the show notes if you haven't
seen it or you've forgotten it. And I went back
and watched it. It's just it's just incredible when you
see the reaction. Tiger cannot believe, as he says, the
inaugural shot on the course is a hole in one.
It is just so so cool. And I've heard since
(18:53):
then that golf course the playgrounds has just been a
huge hit, and Tiger has it in the master Planet.
Other projects he's working on are has already built others,
and he is now also redesigning the Peter Hay Course
at Pebble Beach, where the people behind the lodge at
Pebble Beach have even recognized it's time to take that
beautiful course on a lovely setting in location up a
(19:17):
notch or twelve. Um. Of course, since then there have
been other fun twists on the Part three including the
bad Little Night at Scottsdale National. It looks like the
old world's uh, the old remember those calendars, the toughest
golf holes in the world, And uh, it just looks
crazy and fun and cookie and good for about Parsons
(19:37):
for creating something like that, taking things up a notch
when you you can do that, when you have a
club of of members who can handle such a thing. Um.
But mostly I think the innovation has been coming lately
where you see places taking odd parcels of land and
building just a few holes, or you see places taking
(19:58):
their driving range, rebuilding the targets and having the option
to turn that into a Part three course when they
go and pick up the balls and just decide today
is going to be the day that it's a Part
three course. Of course, these are all high end places
and places I'm talking about, and really I think the
best thing about the Part three movement, while it's great
(20:19):
to have those high end places setting the bar. It's
also allowed people to take a little more pride in
other Part three courses, and it's changed the way people
view them and view the importance of them. Things that
might have been written off and and are now cherished
for their small acreage and their ability to let a
(20:41):
new golfer go and find their way and and do
it all at a at a cheap price, and just
the way Tiger Woods did in in the late nineties
seventies with his dad down at Heartwell and Long Beach.
So here we are in the Shack Show, ten episodes
in and so after these episodes when I recorded them,
and I hope you if you haven't listened to them,
you'll enjoy them. I asked many of the guests who
(21:04):
I knew had some tie two Part three courses, had
played some of the great ones, or had actually designed
some of them, uh, to talk about them. And I
think you'll get a kick out of the variety of
the answers that they gave me. So you'll hear from,
among others, Nick Foulo and Ben Crenshaw about, uh, the
Part three courses that that they've played and know and
(21:25):
things like the one at Turnbury and Augusta National, or
one they've designed. Nick Faulo in particular has a real
love of them, and of course Ben Crenshaw as well,
and uh, they've seen their share of good one shot
holes and designed a few and and it's fun to
hear how these little golf courses have affected people in
(21:45):
the sport. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoy
this little roundup episode celebrating now ten episodes of The
Shack Show. Our sixth episode was with Sir Nick Faulo.
Here he is on Part three courses. You know, I
love pat threes. You know Part three courses because as
you know, we can ever make nine holes ridiculously easy,
(22:08):
or you could play nine whole Pat three course where
you would not break part you know, it could be
it could be that you take a harder you're taking
the nine hardest path threes across the world. You know
your your fourth Riviera and you copy a few of those,
or you do you you do your own interpretation of
a few great great path threes. Holmis you it would
(22:32):
be a lifetime achievement to shoot one under anyway, So
we know that we know the difference that so we
can make it super enjoyable, super fun, and we can
make it super challenging just because by saying, oh, nine
whole path three of course people get output. That doesn't
mean anything. Well, we know, as golf as it could
be a fantastic experience. So I'm I'm inviting golf cluffs
(22:52):
to look at their layouts and say, well, why don't
we have a little short course. What happens if we
put a t halfway down the first we wandered down,
we start from there and instead of going to the
second oh there, we'll just build a tea here and
go to the or that's the sixth green over there,
that's a lovely little shot over the woods. You know,
something different across a corner of the pond, going going
(23:14):
the other way, All that works. It's twenty yards. Or
where are we now, We're now on the side of
the six let's have a look. Oh actually we can
actually go back to the fourth green. Now we could
go across get me, so people could they could look
just with a little bit of work. And to be honest,
you don't even have to build tease. Get some nine mats.
Go and get nine good quality mats and just plum
(23:35):
and just plum come down there and just do it
for fun and going and see what we create. Um,
you know, I now design. I gave my guys brief
long time ago to build Part three courses that are
reversible things like that, so you can and that becomes
a real different challenge as well. Was there a Part
three Part three course in your life at some point that?
(23:59):
Because I'm seen it about Part three's two and I'm
going to do a podcast, I've been asking everybody was
there one in particular? No, I've never played a here
we are, I've never I'm talking all about this and
I've never come to a true part or have I
Did you play a Turnbury? Did you ever play that
one below the hotel? Yeah? We play that that that
(24:19):
little one. Okay, so yeah, and there's and there's a yes,
and there's Part three? Is that Glennie you have Augusta?
I believe too. Oh of course, excuse me? Yeah? That
well that's the mate. Yeah, you're right, that's the main
one in resting. But no, I know what you mean.
You haven't you haven't just stopped one day driving and said, hey,
let's go play the Part three course in the neighborhood. Now, yeah,
(24:41):
but I understand. Yeah, so yeah those ones are right
under around those Yeah they were there, Um, but I agree.
I mean, you know, we've got to keep. Hopefully we
can campaign this because you know, you know, we get
projects that resorts, hotels and say we'd like golf, and
they say, well, we want and they get stuck and
we want sempty two holes of course in your life
(25:04):
and we know it's and we scream and say, look
we could actually build you some really fun things. Um,
that would be And I think people might start thinking that,
you know, because you really want family and family, entertainment,
the time factor, you know, the money there everything up keep. Yeah,
(25:25):
it's been happening already, Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, all these places.
Clubs are now rethinking. Yeah, absolutely well, but what doesn't
sending a golf club may have a most wonderful little
what doesn't have to be could be six nine twelve
holes path is where you go and play the course
and you hop around holes. And I would have thought
(25:45):
if they sat and looked at their maps and so
we could go there there, there, there there and go,
well how about that for loop? We do that every
Sunday for a laugh for a couple of hours. We
open it up one morning a week and try it
and see what people think. Yeah, I can't see any
harm in not to hate to introduce new people to
the game and and be hey, it might be nice
(26:08):
for the members to do something different, and you never
know what you might create. I think it's a it's
of course, we played the one that's that's the only
one that's really purpose part from Augusta, the the one
in Best Pro Show and now here is Episode three
guests Ben Crenshaw. Oddly enough, there was a little golf
(26:29):
course called Butler Park Pitch Well. Of course, I don't
know when, you know, since your dad has has gotten
a hold of it, I don't know. I can't remember
the year that they started Scotty Wood, sure know, but
I know this that as a little junior we'd go
(26:49):
over there occasionally and there were there was fun. It
was fun to play, you know. Bobby Jones made a
comment I always have never really quite grasped in him
Kindergartener Narner courses, and I feel like he had a
conflicted relationship about part threes. And I'm not really sure why,
but it seems to me like this movement we're seeing.
(27:12):
Of course, it's ironically a lot of it goes back
to the Part three course at Augusta for a lot
of people. But I feel like it's just a phenomenal
thing and long overdue thing for the game to have
more facilities, either adding them or places and communities treasuring
them a little bit more because of the pinehursts and
the Augusta's and and abandons and doing it. Um is
(27:34):
that is that your sense? Do you think therefore they're ideals?
They're ideal that I think the only the only drawbacks
from a uh and an operator's standpoint is is that
the expense and upkeep uh. You know, you know a
(27:54):
lot of people like ourselves. You know, you build a
golf course and then somebody has a thought as well,
let's try to do it Part three course, and and
you you think you think about labor and water and
expense to take care of him. But stand alone, they're
they're they're fantastic for a very municipality. Do you think
(28:19):
they should be designed just to be played with just
a few clubs? Is that is that your ideal Part
three a wedge, a putter and maybe a nine iron
or something and is that is that the that's kind
of what you've done it at the Sand Valley. Yeah,
we did. I mean that was I can't tell you
how much fun that was. And uh we left. We
(28:43):
left Jim Craig to his own devices for some of that,
and he came up with some beautiful ideas. But I
had the bottom line, Jeff, it's so much fun. Every
people just love that. They go out and play it
and they play no time. Uh, and it's it's it's enjoyment,
(29:08):
it's uh as fellowship and hospitality and it's just fun.
Did you last question that's the one at Turnbury, Uh,
in front of the hotel. Didn't you have some fun
times there? Oh? Yeah, dead we would always. I can remember.
I can remember doing that with Bill Rogers, Bruce Let's key.
(29:30):
It was just just so much fun, you know, right,
you know, right before dinner, you know, you could know
all of those were out there knocking the balls around
with it, but everybody was fun. Well, it's neat to
see them getting at it and Mike Kaiser and everybody, uh,
trying to make sure that's part of the equation. Maybe
(29:51):
Dickie Dick Young's capital K one of these days, right,
and he's on the brink. This is the most exciting
thing I've heard all Oh he started thinking about labor
costs and water. That's dick, what about water? If you
got all the water in the world, Yeah, but you
got a light pipe. You thinking about the guys that
(30:13):
we have on our labor crew. Oh, Dick, you just
can't make it easy. Canny. It's where would he do it?
Where would it be on the way to the to
the course. Now, well, yeah, some of it. It would
be um from that maintenance road. Start there, you start
there and you finish over by the putting green. Right,
(30:38):
that would be perfect. I always wondered about that. Yeah,
that's the spot that is so exciting. Yeah, well, Dick
will find a way to make it his idea. Soon
it'll happen. It'll it's the only thing lacking there that
just would be so perfect at the end of the day.
Because that's what I keep hearing for people is how
much they love that end of the day. Everybody gets
(31:02):
together and the Prairie Club, the one we did there,
it's done exactly that. It's or some people. Some people
they first check in and then they just go out
and play it I've had a couple of guys right there.
You know, you dry all day and you don't have
time to play, but you just go out in the
evening and it's just you just feel alive, absolutely absolutely
there there. I don't there's not there's not a little
(31:24):
Part three anywhere in the world that's not enjoyable. I
know you can make them fun even when they're boring.
They're fun there there because they're just there's something about
the That's why when you can talk about the ball
going so far, you try to explain to people just
that the you know, the how you get spread out
and there's no companionship, there's no Part three. It kind
(31:46):
of brings it together and it's just a different kind
of experience sou and people are experiencing it though, which
is neat now here is episode two guests Charlie Reymer, Well,
they didn't have at all other than when I would
from about age six, I'd get to go two guests
every year. Of course you couldn't really walk down there
(32:07):
and look at the Part three, but but get in it.
But you could see that was over there, So that
was really the only one I got a chance to see.
But I'd say about six eight years ago I started
going over to Bermuda every year to play. And and
what was the Gray Goose World Part three Championship. Great, Yeah,
Grey Goose is no longer the sponsor. I believe Goslings
(32:29):
uh which is which is a run company over there
and reviewed to a sponsitive this year. But I think
maybe six or seven years in a row I played
in that World Championship and and it was held still
as at at the Fairmont Southampton and the golf courses
as turtle Hill, and it's just absolutely beautiful and uh
hard golf course. You know it's not because it's long
(32:51):
and just the wind can be a little tricky. We
play it uh always in the first week of March
over there, late late February sometimes in the wind is
just brewed. But I absolutely love Part three golf. It
doesn't take as long as a great place to start,
a great place to work on your game, or if
you're just you're looking to have fun, get out there
and part that's eighteen holes put togethers in great shape
(33:13):
over there in Bermuda, uh and have my best finished ever.
Last year I finished the leventh place, so I was
pretty bumped about that, And and I could play golf
steel shack if I didn't have to driver very much.
But all three golf answers a lot of the questions
that we have out there. In fact, I think we're
gonna see a lot of golf courses in the right
location maybe go to Part three type format and and
(33:38):
and a practice format and then change what the clubhouse
is and then sell off the rest of property they
don't need. And some of these urban golf courses that
are and that are in areas where the real estate
is worth so much you can keep some sort of
golf operation there, have some Part three have a gym,
sports bar, fitting center, everything you need to have. It's
gonna make sense for for private held golf courses or
(34:02):
um country clubs that are struggling. They can get a
pretty good junk for their real estate and then keep
some of it and have something that that that's that's
pretty neat uh where where it used to be in
a normal eighteen whole uh full country club facility. I
think a lot of smart folks are going to be
looking at trying to pull that model off here at
some point. Yeah. I think that's the interesting thing is
(34:25):
how you do it and and give people a place
to still sort of stay connected to the game. But uh,
but also acknowledge that when people want to have a
lot of time to play golf, they go to Hilton
and Myrtle Beach and and resorts and then but when
they live near a city, they just need something to
kind of maintain their game and take the family and
(34:46):
whatever else. So like that, and he should deliver a
lot more than just golf. Yeah, um, and and I
think that I think we're gonna see a good bit
of that. Here is Episode one guest Michael Hamburger. The
first Part three course I ever played was Augusta Nationals
in the early nineties, and I could not believe how
(35:08):
difficult that course is. I mean, those greens are tiny,
and of course you don't hit the green you know
you're you're in the water on the half of them
or give up more. Uh So that was the first
one I played, and I played a bunch since then
on the Part three course in Palm Beach County, about
four or five miles south of Mara Lago. For those
for whom that's a meaningful reference, Have you ever have
(35:30):
you ever played there? Jeff No I read your piece
about it, and I really want to go there. It
looks spectacular. Yeah, well, it's absolutely beautiful and the pizzas
great there. They've gotta pizza the restaurant, and they've got
a grass driving range, so you really can't beat it. Wow.
You don't hear very often of golf courses with great pizza.
Did they have an outdoor oven or what? What? What
is what's the what's great about it? I think I
(35:52):
don't know. That's no, it's not outdoors. It's an indoor
oven because I know, I know you can't see it,
but it's definitely that extreme heat five five or north
degrees are and I I'm sure because it comes out
really quickly and it's got the uh it's got the
very raised crusts and a little burnt in the bubbly spots,
which I prefer. And uh, you know, it's a thin
(36:13):
dough type and it's not overly sauce, it's not overly cheese.
So you feel like you could actually eat one of
those pies and then go for a swim or or
play golf afterwards. You don't have that d and feel
like you have in Chicago after their pie. Yeah, those
are a little heavy. So it's an eighteen hole Part
three it is. It's eighteen Part three and originally by
Dick Wilson and then redone by. What do you make
(36:36):
of this movement to add Part threes to either resorts
or country clubs or just try and rejuvenate them in
a public setting. I think it's absolutely fantastic because, uh,
you don't need an all day commitment to it. You
don't need five years of lessons until you can, you know,
at least try to play on a Part three course.
(36:58):
It's why the way there's a lot of Part three
corps is that for seniors and for and for kids,
they don't even know that it is a Part three course.
They'll just think it's a golf course because they're not
going to reach the greens, or they're you know, they're
going to talk a shot and then pitch it on whatever. Uh.
So my feeling is it's a great game. Your game
is gonna be rich, your life's gonna be enriched by
playing it. And if that's the path to get people
(37:19):
on it, uh, that's terrific. You know, Part three course
I've never played, but I've seen it. Uh, is the
I believe it's a wis golf course at Olympic and
the dunes. There is that still a going thing? Do
you know? It is still a going thing. I think
there are some thoughts to possibly altering it somehow, but
it is still very much there. And and the club
(37:40):
value values having a part three course as far as
I know from from members. Yeah, that's that's scar um. Yeah,
it's it's an interesting movement. I I think it's also
good for good players to get out on them more.
I I see a lot of elite players who just
to me that the biggest decline in skill of top
(38:02):
players today is is from about hundred and ten yards in.
I just don't see. And I don't know if it's
the golf ball, if if it's a harder golf ball.
Um Justin Thomas is one of the rare ones who
kind of hits a light cut with those shots, and
so his ball lands softer, and he's very good from
that distance generally, and and speech is, and Zack Johnson
(38:24):
still is obviously. But it just seemed to me there
used to be a lot more players who were unbelievable
from that distance, and and and many more now who
are very average. And now a word from our sponsors.
(38:44):
I hope you enjoyed hearing from all these guests so
far on the Shack Show. I hope you feel like
we're off to a good start. I do too. It was, though,
really fascinating, how just going a little bit deeper on
this topic hearing them speak, Uh, I think made me
appreciate Part three courses even more. And I didn't know
what I was gonna get necessarily from each guests, and um,
(39:05):
I think it was really fascinating. I hope this renaissance
keeps happening. Obviously in these tough times, it's gonna be
a challenge for some courses budget wise, but for all
of us to enjoy the sport and for the sport
to continue to grow, I'm pretty sure it's abundantly clear
now what the Part three course means to golf. As always,
(39:28):
A Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'd like to thank producer Tim Perrotica for putting together
this show and splicing all of these great comments together
and doing a great job making me sound good. The
Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I heart radio, app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com