June 30, 2020 • 36 mins
In episode 17 of the Shack Show, golf writer and reporter Ron Sirak joins Geoff Shackelford to discuss the latest breaking news involving FOX and the USGA. The guys talk about the innovation FOX broadcasts brought to golf television and then finish up talking about the LPGA's return to golf.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
Welcome to another Shack Show. And we had some major
inside the Beltway, first world inside Baseball news that broke
(00:22):
Sunday night from Doug Ferguson at the Associated Press that
out of nowhere, really the United States Golf Association's media deal,
a very controversial one with Fox signed in that commenced
in had suddenly come to an end and was going
back to NBC and Golf Channel and uh the digital
(00:43):
streaming app Peacock as part of a pandemic related essentially
buy out, trade out, whatever you wanna call it, phase out.
The U s g A is going to get all
their money about nine million dollars a year. UH, NBC
Gol Channel appears to be paying essentially what they were
paying before, not even what they did and and ultimately
(01:06):
lost in and so to go back and review this
and why it's important for the sport, why it's an
interesting business story, a media story. UH. I have called
up my old palt oh boy, I called him all
He's not gonna like that. Ron Sirak eighteen years at
Golf Digests, Golf World, eighteen years before that at the
Associated Press. He wrote the definitive story on this incredibly
(01:30):
bizarre behind the scenes negotiation and saga that included things
like Arnold Palmer flying to thirty Rock to be part
of a presentation for the U s g A officials,
who appeared, as you read the story, to have already
made up their mind to go to Fox. At the time.
It was all very strange at least some of those
(01:52):
U s g A officials, I think in history has
told us that Mike Davis, the executive director at the time,
was not one of those peele and so I'm sure
he's a very happy person with the news that they're
back at NBC Golf Channel. Not that I think he
regredged anything that went on at Fox, but certainly I
think he was not pleased with how the whole thing
(02:13):
went down back then. Anyway. Why it's also interesting to me,
of course, is what has happened to the U s
g A. And obviously there's certainly elements like anchoring and
and rules issues and and the presentation of the US
Open and the sort of disappearance of the amateur game
in some ways, and all these elements that are making
(02:33):
their job very difficult. And some of those have been
brought on by themselves. So Ron is of course the
PG of America Lifetime Achievement Award winner. He didn't really
start covering golf until the age of forty five, big
baseball guy, long time AP writer, and was instrumental in
getting the Associated Press to start covering the women's game,
(02:54):
in which is in a sort of amazing thing to
think about in itself. And he now lives on Cape
Codd He's playing a lot of golf. He's a Pennsylvania native,
loves his pirates, and UH is a super guy and
still a Golf Channel contributor as well and covering the
LPGA at times. So we discussed that later on in
the show, but obviously we wanted to discuss this breaking
(03:17):
news and this interesting story to the world of golf
related to the U. S G and Fox. Here's my
chat with Ron. So Ron, on a scale of one
to ten, how surprised were you buy the news of
this switch back to NBC from Fox for U S
G A coverage. Honestly, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Um,
(03:39):
I can't believe that either side was happy with the
way that deal was going. Uh, Fox was losing money
and the U s g A wasn't getting the exposure
that they that they dreamed of and that they were
quite frankly promised when the deal was being the ghost.
Yet when I went back and read your piece, which
I will post with the show notes here, and it
really isn't credible thing to read. Now here we are
(04:03):
since the deal kicked in, it was announced kicked in,
and one of the main reasons for the U s
g A going to Fox or was claimed, was to
raise its stature. They felt like they had been diminished
based on ratings versus the Masters. Uh so, how would
(04:26):
you say now here we are a few years into
the deal and it's it's ending and it's going back
to NBC. How did that prediction work out for then
U s g A President Glen Nager? Yeah, you know, Uh,
multiple sources told me at the time that Glen Nagger
was hunted with the slogan the Masters, a tradition on
(04:47):
you know like no other. That he heard that starting
with the Super Bowl and through and through March Madness
in the Final four, and he just spent months here
in that slogan and he wanted the US open to
that kind of stature. Well, you know, they were promised
a lot of things. They were promised that that Fox
could use the Super Bowl as a platform to promote
(05:09):
UH U s J events. Well, of course Fox doesn't
have the Super Bowl every year, so there was a
flaw in that argument right from the beginning. But there
were also promises of of um elaborate pre tournament um
um coverage, elaborate post tournament coverage, that they would use
U s g A archives to produce documentaries and UH
(05:31):
at the time, Sarah Herschelan, who was UH a key
executive of the U s g A, who was very
involved in it, goes in and Steele told me, there's
gonna be all this other ancillary programming and and I
don't think that ever came to be. Plus all those
second tier U s J events like the Boys and
the Girls Junior and so sort of got lost and
(05:54):
did not get the love it would have gotten if
they had been on Golf Channel, which is part of
the deal if you're have a if you have a
deal with NBC. Right, So back at the time this
was done, obviously we we have that element, the the
feeling or claim that they felt underappreciated or lost and
(06:15):
somehow in some sort of corporate shuffle at NBC. And
of course it then turned out they got lost in
the Fox world because it just wasn't a fit with
the other sports that they were carrying on FS one.
But but a lot of this was really about Fox
Sports One. Wasn't it just establishing that as a channel,
and they just were willing to pay even if they
(06:35):
lost money. Well, the U s g a s timing
couldn't have been better. Uh, Fox Sports one had started up,
NBC was starting up an all sports station. These competitors
were all jumping into to take on ESPN, and there
were big rights feast battles over Wimbledon tennis, over English
Premier League soccer, uh, you know, over US Open tennis,
(07:00):
and and then golf became part of that. And uh,
and then and Fox jumped in and probably overpaid to
get it. Um certainly they weren't getting back. I mean,
you know, I figured my calculations it was about ninety
three million dollars a year. And and really the U
s g A has sixteen national championships, one of which
(07:23):
gets significant TV ratings, and that's the mend US Open
and and so what you found out was the other
things were not we're not bringing eyeballs uh to f
S one or two Fox in a way that they
thought they were going to. Yeah, I don't know how
they thought they would, but uh that that really is
(07:44):
a mystery, which does make you wonder when you go
back and read your story how much of this was
really just about about cash and money and and uh,
and I understand the prominence argument. One of the things
that I noted I had forgotten in your piece was
you mentioned that they were really inspired in part to
be aggressive by the U. S. T A s deal
(08:05):
moving from CBS to ESPN for eleven years, eight hundred
twenty five million dollars. And of course that has been
an incredible deal for the U. S. T A with
no offense to CBS. But clearly ESPN has raised the
bar on the US Open, They've put a roof on
the stadium. It's it's been successful. How has it been
(08:29):
for the U S g A. And in terms of
what Neger predicted, I can't think of a metric on
which you can say, yeah, right, that there's it's been
arousing success. Uh. Look, Jeff, when I first realized that
there was that there was a significant problem with the deal.
Was the US Women's Open Court of All California. We
(08:50):
got out there and you're thinking, oh, this is a
great time to take women's golf into East Coast prime time. Yeah,
beautiful venue, Yeah, the whole the whole thing. First round,
they had, um um, the dream pairing one, two and
three in the world. That was Alexei Thompson, I think
aria U Tannagarn and I don't know, maybe Brooke Anderson,
(09:10):
but it was well. They went off the air with
that group on the fourteenth hole because they had other
programming to get to. Well, we get to the weekend now. Um,
So instead of ending at six or seven o'clock California time,
taking it into nine ten o'clock East Coast prime time,
they ended at three in the afternoon on Saturday because
(09:33):
they had baseball commitments that they needed to do. And
on Sunday they ended at three in the afternoon in
California time because they didn't want to run into the Simpsons,
which is a rating BOTHO thing for them. So so
here you go. One of the advantages of all this
added exposure that that USGA events are going to get
the Women's US Open and evented the U s g
(09:54):
A desperately wants to quit losing money on and wanted
to elevate the profile of and they get there, they
have a chance to put it on primetime TV, and
they end up not doing that. Well. I'll answer the
question and say I think the U s g lost
significant relevance in part just because of the golf channel's
reached during this time. Uh Now, where that goes into
(10:15):
the future with court cutting, I don't know. But one
of the things in your story that I noticed that
really stood out was was Glen Nagger, the president at
the time, who really orchestrated this deal, was very uh
snippy about the number of hours of coverage that Fox
would give the U s G as big events, plus
the number of other events that would be covered. They
(10:38):
had since cut back this year to seven from eight.
I know from NBC that they had pledged to do
some form of coverage of of all U s g
A championships, So right there, it was kind of a killer.
But as you know, I think the biggest killer was
this this thing that kept happening where they would just
cut away, you know, US Amateur Pebble Beach, same thing
(10:59):
happened beautiful late evening at Pebble Beach, great matches and
and the first day they left, and I think the
second day they left, they stayed with the matches on
uh Friday, I believe, as I recall. So it just
showed they just didn't. It just was was not a
match made in heaven. Um. That's not really a question.
(11:20):
And the other, the other systemic problem that was built
into to this, to this cake from the very beginning,
was that this was Fox's only golf property. So Fox,
which which certainly improved after I mean it couldn't that
first debut at Chambers Bay probably couldn't have been worse
than it was, you know. But so they got better,
(11:42):
particularly on the production side. But but they did not
do enough golf events for their crew to to improve.
They weren't getting enough reps to improve their chemistry. You
know that both NBC and CBS do so many just
regular PGA tour events that that their crews developed a
chemistry they're not they know how to play off each other,
and and the Fox people weren't getting that because this
(12:05):
was all they had and they weren't even using their
a crew at really any event other than the men's
us O. Right right before we take a preik, I'll
leave you with this quote from Glenn Neger. Uh. And
of course it all got off to such a brutal start.
They announced this while the PGA Championship is going on
at Oak Hill, and there was a PG of America
(12:28):
dinner and Glenn Neger went to that and he told
you for this story. Several people came over to congratulate me.
One said it was the biggest thing to happen to
golf since Tiger won the Masters. Now that's some that's
some serious delusional thinking. I won't ask you, as the
longtime ap man to comment on that. We'll take a
(12:49):
quick break here on the Shack Show and then we'll
talk a little bit more about Fox and then also
I get into two some women's golf issues coming up
with their return. All right, ron Uh, So you mentioned
(13:13):
they got off to that horrible start, But would you
agree or feel that they did finally really step up
and actually delivered the thing one of the things they
promised at the beginning, which was innovation. Did they do it?
I think they did? But yeah, I think they did.
I think technically, we thought we did see a lot
of innovation in there. Uh and uh, you know, uh,
(13:38):
one of the things that they focused on it that
you know, they're very very good at it what football
for instance, is bringing you uh sound of the games,
you know, and and uh, in addition to some of
the visuals stuff that they did, UM, they were very
respectful of if they was a conversation going on between
a player and a caddy, they were going to step
aside and let you listen to that, let you hear it,
(14:00):
So that they were they became more aware of trying
to bring the viewer inside the ropes and have them
and add to that feeling, Yes, that they improved on that,
no question. Yeah. And I mean we've seen that here
with CBS dealing with this issue with no fans in
this return and trying to get more sound and and
and and it's still a struggle with the players. But
(14:21):
obviously I think the fans have spoken that that people
have sound systems now that are better and it's just
it's just different. Um. And then of course they also
I think the tracer is sort of underrated that they
they really have forced that on the other networks. Um,
wouldn't you say though, that going forward it's going to
be without them. It's back to essentially two operations that
(14:45):
that we're relying on to to innovate. Well, you know,
I think the one thing that um that the U
s g A miscalculated on in this whole thing was
the the the importance of Golf Channel uh as part
of the the NBC deal because you know, again, let's
go to some of those those second tier or third
(15:07):
tier U s J events, go to like the Boys
and the Girls Junior, Golf Channel would cover that gavel
to gavel. You know, it's what they do. It's it's
all they do. Same thing with the four ball tournament,
you know. I mean all those events would have gotten
far far more exposure, and there would have been pregame
and postgame shows and and live from and all those
(15:28):
other things that the Golf Channel does because that's who
they are, the Golf Channel, and uh. And I I
think the U. S g A sort of um um
whipped on understanding, uh the importance of what of what
Golf Channel brought to the NBC deal. Yeah, And I
think it was really a cluster of people, as you
detailed in your story Gary Stevenson, Sarah Herschlin, Casey Wasserman,
(15:52):
who whose firm was consulting, and he was having discussions
with with Brian Roberts of Comcast up at Sun Valley.
I mean, some of the details you have are just
so fascinating to read now. The but but do you
think but were is the problem that they weren't golf people? Well,
you know, there was this little uh. I think that's
(16:14):
part of the problem. There was also like sort of
North Carolina cabal in all this, you know, you know
that that seemed to be And when they started to
set the stage for this uh Jim Heiler, who also
has North Carolina roots, was the U s g A
president then, and he's the one who started moving aside
some of the U s g A people who had
(16:35):
close ties to NBC people um Um Mark Carlson, who
was still technically still negotiating TV rights, was was was
taken out of this this TV contract negotiations. David Faye
UH was ended up leaving as a as a longtime
executive director of the organization and and they really started
(16:57):
setting up a negotiating team that had not been involved
with NBC during the twenty years that NBC had the
contract because because Nigger was worried, those people were had
had a built in biased as to where they wanted
it to go. And so yes, there were people who
and and quite frankly, neger was didn't have a deep,
(17:17):
lengthy tradition in golf. You know, he was relatively uh,
he had been fast tracked on from the executive Committee
of the U s g A into the president's role.
Looking back on it, probably in a large part to
negotiate this deal. It's a an inside golf business story.
And I think for a lot of people now it
(17:38):
probably is sort of okay, you know, why do we
care other than what do we get more tracer and
do we get good drone shots? But but why is
it important for the U s g A to be
relevant and to be to be strong and and and
how and and to get out of kind of this
whole where they've been weakened by this? Yeah, you know,
and think of the time when this came along, where
(17:59):
where the uh, the U s g A in some
ways was being um almost challenged by the PGA of
America as as the leader of the you know, the
representative of the rank and file golfer in America, the
long putter band UM, the ban on not being able
to post handicap scores for for a solo rounds of golf.
(18:21):
There were several things that the U s g A
did that a lot of people, a lot of people
that I play golf, we looked at and said, wait
a minute, that doesn't speak to me, you know. Uh.
And and so this came along at a time when
they're when they're UM authority in the game was being
weakened in other areas and and being being sort of
(18:41):
very subtly challenged by the PGA of America, which was
beginning to be seen more and more as representing the
grassroots golfer UM. I do think that getting back to UM,
they're gonna get They're gonna get a lot of love
from NBC and Golf Channel now going back on this contract,
(19:02):
and it's going to play out very very well for
them that way. Well, especially because based on the reporting
that we got by your your friend at AP, Doug
Ferguson and Joe Flint and sport in a Wall Street
Journal and Sports Business Journal as well by John Ran
that that it sounds like NBC is paying what they
paid in the previous deal and Fox is checking up
(19:25):
the rest. That's incredible. H One would hope that translates
to be able to throw out all the bells and
whistles and everything they do. Yeah, you know. Um, It's
one of the things that was a point of contention
is uh NBC always said that they were that they
were promised that they would get last at bats in
the contract negotiation, and that Nigger redequed on that promise.
(19:48):
There's there's conflicts about whether that's true or not. But
but NBC probably came in about ten million dollars a
year under uh the number that Fox was putting up there.
So so um, you know, it could very well be
that that ten million dollars a year now amounts to
what is Fox's buyout, you know, because that's less than
(20:10):
they were losing per year on I mean million dollars
a year. That's a lot of money to have to
get back when you're talking about, um, a good good
rating for the US Open is like an eight maybe,
you know, and so uh um, it's hard to make
the money back with that kind of rate. And now
that you are not exactly in the working in an
(20:33):
environment where you have to be careful what you say
about bifurcation, that big, ugly dirty word. Do you think
that's weakened the U s g A's position by holding
firm on on the idea that bifurcation of the rules
so that there are rules for pros and rules for amateurs.
Do you do you think that's weakened them? Well, I
(20:54):
I think it hasn't, you know. I mean, I know,
you know, one of one of the things about the
quarantine and everything that weve and going through. I haven't
traveled this little since n so I'm playing more golf
than I've played since I was in high school. And
the guys that I played golf with at my club all,
I mean, look, we have we have a de facto
(21:15):
bifurcation any you know any anyway, people there are gimmes,
there are Mulligan's. There were all these things that people
do um that uh aren't in the rules of golf. Now.
I think changes in the rules like UMU the out
of bounds lost ball change, you know, that's a good change.
That's something that's something that helps the pace of play.
(21:37):
The flagstick thing probably helps the pace of play, although
probably has have way more of an impact on the
pro game than in the amateur game because people are
making people who didn't used to put so well, they're
putting better. Just just anecdotically to me, um, but but
I do think that's true. And uh, Jeff, when when
(21:59):
when distance is going to become a significant issue for
the game is when? Look, you know how much I
love baseball. One of the great things about baseball Wrigley
Field and Fenway Park, We're built nineteen twelve and they're
still relevant. We can't afford to lose the Wrigley Fields
and the Fenway Parks of golf. You know, if there's
already four part four's at St. Andrew's that are drivable
(22:21):
if there's no wind there, um um um. We don't
want Augusta National or St. Andrew's or these great venues
to become obsolete and a three forty yard drives become
the norm and and that becomes a danger. Then it's
an issue that they're going to have to deal with.
But I just keep getting the feeling that they keep
(22:44):
taking baby steps towards bifurcation and that it's inevitable, but
it's happening probably slower than it should. Yeah, and by
the way, one other thing I realized when you were
discussing that, just back to the U S G A
Fox deal, that that that extra money brought them more
aches with golf professionals and wanting more money thrown into
(23:04):
the purse. Uh, not not spent growing the game. And
it's it's it was another byproduct of this deal. I
would say, let let's take a quick break and then
I want to talk LPGA. Alright, ron So, speaking of
(23:26):
golf courses and and our Wrigley Fields of golf, the
LPGA announced something that just shocked a lot of us
and thrilled the architecture geeks of the world, uh, and
the golf history buffs of the world that they are
going to restart on July thirty one at Inverness and Toledo.
Have you have you you've covered I assume you. I
(23:47):
think you covered the ninety p g A there right. Yeah,
So that's pretty exciting, uh. In terms of venue quality.
First of all, Internews has been away for a while
and now it's out a restoration and very excited. I
mean it was great pre restoration and just had some
funky hills, but now it looks just sensational, pretty big
coup for Mike Moan and the LPGA tour. Yeah, and
(24:08):
there's a lot that makes sense about that. The Solheim
Cup is going to be at Inverness next year, so
this is a way of sort of it's almost like
a preview of the Solheim Cup to get people talking
about it. And then they are going to stay in
to lead over the next week for the Marathon Classic.
So they're gonna they're gonna have back to back tournaments,
uh in the same town, so that you know, cuts
(24:31):
down in the travel everybody. Hundred and forty four players
playing for a million dollars the first week, a hundred
and fifty six playing for two million the second week. Um.
So so they get back going on a good uh,
a good venue and um some of the sponsors who
who's whose tournaments have not postponed but were canceled this
year in the LPGA are involved in putting up the
(24:53):
money for that first tournament and essentially just given the
players a pay day. You know, they haven't had a
paid a for a long time in lpg A, both
as an organization and as its players don't have anywhere
near the safety net below them. That PGA Tour players. Um,
they're playing for one fifth the money that PGA Tour
(25:14):
players have, So the players aren't as rich, the organizations
aren't as rich. The PGA Tour probably could afford to
lose this entire year and still be okay. What is
your sense from from players about this return are they
Are they feeling good about it? Do they feel it's
the right time? Um? Or is there some trepidation? I
(25:37):
think that the players have an enormous trust in Mike Juan,
the commissioner, and if you look at it, uh. The
LPGA was one of the first sports organizations affected by
COVID nineteen UM. They played the first two events in Florida,
the next two in Australia. Then they were supposed to
go China, Thailand, Singapore. Well on January thirty, first they
(25:59):
can unsold UM China. February two, they canceled Thailand Singapore.
So they started canceling events really before before anybody else
did because of where they play. The other challenge for
the LPGA about their players live outside the United States,
and Mike Juan made a promise to them, I'm going
to give you enough of a heads up, you know,
(26:21):
I'm going to give you forty five days notice, so
you have time to get back into the United States
quarantine if you have to, and get ready to play.
So I think the players figel that if Mike Juan
thinks that that it's safe to come back to play,
to compete now at the end of July and uh
in this venue, then they're gonna They're gonna trust him.
(26:44):
What will be interesting is in August they're supposed to
play at the Scottish Open and the Women's British Open,
which is a trouon um. You know, will those events happened,
you know, will there be travel restrictions on a May
Americans going over there? Uh? The tournament in Avian, France
has been canceled, and then in October they have another
(27:06):
Asia Swing and everyone's holding their breath that that that happens. Yeah. Well,
the so far, the UK has not the the the
EU did go through with its its restrictions today and
then also the CP Women's Open in Canada was canceled
today at the end of August. Um, so the the
(27:28):
LPGA has I have not seen much yet on what
they're planning to do, but I assume they're going to
use a lot of the things that the PGA Tour
has been doing well. You know, again again they don't
have the finances to like do charter planes, you know,
to get players around that. They're not going to do that. Um,
they're going to be uh, they're going to be spectators
(27:51):
at Marathon. I'm not entirely sure about the first one. No, no,
they're not at not at inter yes, no, yeah, yeah,
but the but the second one they are, And I
would imagine that there's going to be um um restrictions
on that. Uh. You know, I'm supposed to do um
the uh, the Women's British Open uh and then the
(28:13):
A and A Inspiration at Mission Hills uh in early September,
But I don't know yet whether I'm going to be
going to there because I imagine there's going to be
uh limits on how many people can be in the
media center. And I also think that the LPGA is
going to have some um financial considerations about how many
(28:33):
people they can they can send on the road too.
You've been playing a lot of golf during this time.
What How's how's the game functioning where you are? You're
in Massachusetts was one of the last states to allow
golf as I as I recalled, fact it was the
last Yeah, we uh, we're still uh, it's still one
(28:54):
person per cart unless it's a family member in there,
although they're coming up. I noticed today the course they
had cards with partitions between all your kidding, yeah, between
the driver's side and the passenger side. Now now, Jeff, anecdotally, um,
the National Golf Foundation is saying that um um sales
(29:15):
of beginnings beginners sets of clubs are way up, and
there's anecdotal evidence that there's that there's a lot of
new players in the game and a lot of people
who who played the game quit are coming back to
it because I think people are looking at golf as
a healthy activity that that you know, I mean, you're
social distancing just by the nature of the game. Uh.
(29:38):
At our golf course, you have to wear a mask
until you get the first tea. Then you can take
your mask off on the first team because you're not
really we don't take the flagsticks out. We have no
punker rakes, we have no ball washers. Um uh. And
the other good thing about golf is you play your
own equipment. You're not you're not touching somebody else's uh
(29:58):
uh quick them when they're out there. So it's it's
people are looking at it. I think now as as
a a safe activity uh in in the in these
troubled times. Yeah, the mask thing is it makes perfect
sense around the clubhouse and and then once you get
on the course it should be fine. Um is your
(30:18):
sense that that this is more than just a temporary thing,
that this is going to be a long term boost
for the sport. I do. I think it's going to
be a long term boost in terms of numbers. But boy,
I mean there's other ways it's having an impact. Like, uh,
our pro shops not open, so we're not selling any
merchandise in there. Our club I'm on, I'm on Cape Cod.
It's very very pretty up where we are. We do.
(30:40):
We had twenty six weddings scheduled for this year. Um
that's probably about a half million dollars in revenue that
we're not going to get at that club. So um
so and um um the food service, everything, all that
other spending is way down rounds played or up we're getting. Um.
My core is we have members, but we're also open
(31:01):
to the public and particularly enjoint tourist season we get
a lot of people in there. We are doing great
with off street traffic that way. But but there's what
they're spending on is just green FeAs and cartoons. All
that other spending in the pro shop, in the snack bar,
in the restaurant, all that other spending has been drastically impacted.
(31:23):
So thirty six years eighteen with a p. Eighteen with
Golf Digest, Golf World, what are you what are your
views on the state of media as you're now sort
of watching this and and dipping in times, still doing coverage.
But but I since you probably glad you worked when
you worked, how's that for a leading question? I got
(31:49):
old at the right time, you know, Golf World magazine
folded in and uh, you know, I mean the uh,
the NBC Fox US g As story that you reference.
Golf Digests gave me words to write that story. UM.
I don't think there's too many magazine pieces that are
that long. Now. In two thousand and seven, I went
(32:12):
with six LPGA players for two weeks on a humanitarian
mission to Rwanda. UM, Betsy King had organized that. Julie
Akster was on that trip. Went over, Uh, and they
gave me forty words to write that story ten pages
in the magazine. Uh. You know, I don't know if
we're seeing that kind of um um in depth stuff.
(32:32):
When I did the NBC, UH, Fox US g a
story for six weeks um golf digest um, it was,
it was all I did. They just detached me, you know,
to work only on that story for six weeks. And uh,
I don't know, you know, I I think when I
watched the movie uh Spotlight about the Boston Globes coverage
(32:54):
of the U of the sex abuse scandal in the
Catholic Church, and and I keep thinking, Wow, they worked
for like two years on that story. You know, I mean,
who has the financial resources to let reporters do that
kind of reporting now? So I I'm you know, in
in terms of golf, man, you know, I started with
(33:16):
Jack Nicholas, I ended with Tiger Woods. So uh, you know,
it doesn't really get you know, uh, it doesn't get
any better than that. And I and I covered at
a time when the print journalism was still extremely extremely
relevant and prospers. Well, I can't thank you enough for
taking a little time after your golf to to share
(33:37):
your your wisdom. And like I said, I will be
putting up in the show notes the link to the story.
It has aged very well in case you haven't read
it in a while. I don't know if you ever
go back, and do you ever go back and read
your stuff? You know I do, and uh and and
I reread that story. Um um, well, you know I
think the first new Well, I woke up yesterday morning
(33:59):
to a text from you about the TV deal and
a text from a from a source that I had
at at UH at NBC about about the deal. And
I went back and I reread my story then. And
I'm always surprised when I go back and I'll say, gee,
that story is not as bad as I remember the Usually,
(34:21):
by the time I get to the end of working
on a story, I hate the story, you know, I've
just been around it so much. I feel like, oh, this,
this is just horrible. And uh and that one was
was less bad than I remembering. And it's probably a
sign that you also exhausted all possible avenues to get
the story right. So it's why you're an outstanding reporter.
(34:42):
Uh Ron. Thank you so much for the time, and
again I will urge everybody to go check out the
piece and We'll look forward to your coverage when the
LPGA Tour returns. Always a pleasure, Jeff, look forward to
cross and pass down the road. All right, thanks Ron.
Good to hear Ron's voice again, and not so good
in some respects for the good folks at Fox who
(35:03):
did really pull it together in the last few years
and do a super job that that one big week
a year and and the other weeks that they worked. Um,
so it's a it's a strange story. It's been an
incredible story that we've all covered, and um it's a
very first world inside business story. But I think golf
people enjoy a good business story. They're interested in it.
(35:24):
It tells you a lot about the people running the
game and where all this money goes and what it
all means for for viewers. And and TV stories are
of course fascinating just because it's such a big part
of the product of golf and the the presentation of it,
and it's so radically alters our enjoyment of a broadcast
depending on how it's it's put forward. And then of
(35:47):
course it is just and as the TV people will
tell you, the toughest sport of all to cover. Hey,
the Shack Show is produced by Tim per Rochkin is
a production of I Heart Radio. So for more podcasts
from my heart, please visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.
So until next time, please be safe and thank you
for listening to The Shack Show
The Shack Show is a production of I Heart Radio.
Welcome to another Shack Show. And we had some major
inside the Beltway, first world inside Baseball news that broke
(00:22):
Sunday night from Doug Ferguson at the Associated Press that
out of nowhere, really the United States Golf Association's media deal,
a very controversial one with Fox signed in that commenced
in had suddenly come to an end and was going
back to NBC and Golf Channel and uh the digital
(00:43):
streaming app Peacock as part of a pandemic related essentially
buy out, trade out, whatever you wanna call it, phase out.
The U s g A is going to get all
their money about nine million dollars a year. UH, NBC
Gol Channel appears to be paying essentially what they were
paying before, not even what they did and and ultimately
(01:06):
lost in and so to go back and review this
and why it's important for the sport, why it's an
interesting business story, a media story. UH. I have called
up my old palt oh boy, I called him all
He's not gonna like that. Ron Sirak eighteen years at
Golf Digests, Golf World, eighteen years before that at the
Associated Press. He wrote the definitive story on this incredibly
(01:30):
bizarre behind the scenes negotiation and saga that included things
like Arnold Palmer flying to thirty Rock to be part
of a presentation for the U s g A officials,
who appeared, as you read the story, to have already
made up their mind to go to Fox. At the time.
It was all very strange at least some of those
(01:52):
U s g A officials, I think in history has
told us that Mike Davis, the executive director at the time,
was not one of those peele and so I'm sure
he's a very happy person with the news that they're
back at NBC Golf Channel. Not that I think he
regredged anything that went on at Fox, but certainly I
think he was not pleased with how the whole thing
(02:13):
went down back then. Anyway. Why it's also interesting to me,
of course, is what has happened to the U s
g A. And obviously there's certainly elements like anchoring and
and rules issues and and the presentation of the US
Open and the sort of disappearance of the amateur game
in some ways, and all these elements that are making
(02:33):
their job very difficult. And some of those have been
brought on by themselves. So Ron is of course the
PG of America Lifetime Achievement Award winner. He didn't really
start covering golf until the age of forty five, big
baseball guy, long time AP writer, and was instrumental in
getting the Associated Press to start covering the women's game,
(02:54):
in which is in a sort of amazing thing to
think about in itself. And he now lives on Cape
Codd He's playing a lot of golf. He's a Pennsylvania native,
loves his pirates, and UH is a super guy and
still a Golf Channel contributor as well and covering the
LPGA at times. So we discussed that later on in
the show, but obviously we wanted to discuss this breaking
(03:17):
news and this interesting story to the world of golf
related to the U. S G and Fox. Here's my
chat with Ron. So Ron, on a scale of one
to ten, how surprised were you buy the news of
this switch back to NBC from Fox for U S
G A coverage. Honestly, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Um,
(03:39):
I can't believe that either side was happy with the
way that deal was going. Uh, Fox was losing money
and the U s g A wasn't getting the exposure
that they that they dreamed of and that they were
quite frankly promised when the deal was being the ghost.
Yet when I went back and read your piece, which
I will post with the show notes here, and it
really isn't credible thing to read. Now here we are
(04:03):
since the deal kicked in, it was announced kicked in,
and one of the main reasons for the U s
g A going to Fox or was claimed, was to
raise its stature. They felt like they had been diminished
based on ratings versus the Masters. Uh so, how would
(04:26):
you say now here we are a few years into
the deal and it's it's ending and it's going back
to NBC. How did that prediction work out for then
U s g A President Glen Nager? Yeah, you know, Uh,
multiple sources told me at the time that Glen Nagger
was hunted with the slogan the Masters, a tradition on
(04:47):
you know like no other. That he heard that starting
with the Super Bowl and through and through March Madness
in the Final four, and he just spent months here
in that slogan and he wanted the US open to
that kind of stature. Well, you know, they were promised
a lot of things. They were promised that that Fox
could use the Super Bowl as a platform to promote
(05:09):
UH U s J events. Well, of course Fox doesn't
have the Super Bowl every year, so there was a
flaw in that argument right from the beginning. But there
were also promises of of um elaborate pre tournament um
um coverage, elaborate post tournament coverage, that they would use
U s g A archives to produce documentaries and UH
(05:31):
at the time, Sarah Herschelan, who was UH a key
executive of the U s g A, who was very
involved in it, goes in and Steele told me, there's
gonna be all this other ancillary programming and and I
don't think that ever came to be. Plus all those
second tier U s J events like the Boys and
the Girls Junior and so sort of got lost and
(05:54):
did not get the love it would have gotten if
they had been on Golf Channel, which is part of
the deal if you're have a if you have a
deal with NBC. Right, So back at the time this
was done, obviously we we have that element, the the
feeling or claim that they felt underappreciated or lost and
(06:15):
somehow in some sort of corporate shuffle at NBC. And
of course it then turned out they got lost in
the Fox world because it just wasn't a fit with
the other sports that they were carrying on FS one.
But but a lot of this was really about Fox
Sports One. Wasn't it just establishing that as a channel,
and they just were willing to pay even if they
(06:35):
lost money. Well, the U s g a s timing
couldn't have been better. Uh, Fox Sports one had started up,
NBC was starting up an all sports station. These competitors
were all jumping into to take on ESPN, and there
were big rights feast battles over Wimbledon tennis, over English
Premier League soccer, uh, you know, over US Open tennis,
(07:00):
and and then golf became part of that. And uh,
and then and Fox jumped in and probably overpaid to
get it. Um certainly they weren't getting back. I mean,
you know, I figured my calculations it was about ninety
three million dollars a year. And and really the U
s g A has sixteen national championships, one of which
(07:23):
gets significant TV ratings, and that's the mend US Open
and and so what you found out was the other
things were not we're not bringing eyeballs uh to f
S one or two Fox in a way that they
thought they were going to. Yeah, I don't know how
they thought they would, but uh that that really is
(07:44):
a mystery, which does make you wonder when you go
back and read your story how much of this was
really just about about cash and money and and uh,
and I understand the prominence argument. One of the things
that I noted I had forgotten in your piece was
you mentioned that they were really inspired in part to
be aggressive by the U. S. T A s deal
(08:05):
moving from CBS to ESPN for eleven years, eight hundred
twenty five million dollars. And of course that has been
an incredible deal for the U. S. T A with
no offense to CBS. But clearly ESPN has raised the
bar on the US Open, They've put a roof on
the stadium. It's it's been successful. How has it been
(08:29):
for the U S g A. And in terms of
what Neger predicted, I can't think of a metric on
which you can say, yeah, right, that there's it's been
arousing success. Uh. Look, Jeff, when I first realized that
there was that there was a significant problem with the deal.
Was the US Women's Open Court of All California. We
(08:50):
got out there and you're thinking, oh, this is a
great time to take women's golf into East Coast prime time. Yeah,
beautiful venue, Yeah, the whole the whole thing. First round,
they had, um um, the dream pairing one, two and
three in the world. That was Alexei Thompson, I think
aria U Tannagarn and I don't know, maybe Brooke Anderson,
(09:10):
but it was well. They went off the air with
that group on the fourteenth hole because they had other
programming to get to. Well, we get to the weekend now. Um,
So instead of ending at six or seven o'clock California time,
taking it into nine ten o'clock East Coast prime time,
they ended at three in the afternoon on Saturday because
(09:33):
they had baseball commitments that they needed to do. And
on Sunday they ended at three in the afternoon in
California time because they didn't want to run into the Simpsons,
which is a rating BOTHO thing for them. So so
here you go. One of the advantages of all this
added exposure that that USGA events are going to get
the Women's US Open and evented the U s g
(09:54):
A desperately wants to quit losing money on and wanted
to elevate the profile of and they get there, they
have a chance to put it on primetime TV, and
they end up not doing that. Well. I'll answer the
question and say I think the U s g lost
significant relevance in part just because of the golf channel's
reached during this time. Uh Now, where that goes into
(10:15):
the future with court cutting, I don't know. But one
of the things in your story that I noticed that
really stood out was was Glen Nagger, the president at
the time, who really orchestrated this deal, was very uh
snippy about the number of hours of coverage that Fox
would give the U s G as big events, plus
the number of other events that would be covered. They
(10:38):
had since cut back this year to seven from eight.
I know from NBC that they had pledged to do
some form of coverage of of all U s g
A championships, So right there, it was kind of a killer.
But as you know, I think the biggest killer was
this this thing that kept happening where they would just
cut away, you know, US Amateur Pebble Beach, same thing
(10:59):
happened beautiful late evening at Pebble Beach, great matches and
and the first day they left, and I think the
second day they left, they stayed with the matches on
uh Friday, I believe, as I recall. So it just
showed they just didn't. It just was was not a
match made in heaven. Um. That's not really a question.
(11:20):
And the other, the other systemic problem that was built
into to this, to this cake from the very beginning,
was that this was Fox's only golf property. So Fox,
which which certainly improved after I mean it couldn't that
first debut at Chambers Bay probably couldn't have been worse
than it was, you know. But so they got better,
(11:42):
particularly on the production side. But but they did not
do enough golf events for their crew to to improve.
They weren't getting enough reps to improve their chemistry. You
know that both NBC and CBS do so many just
regular PGA tour events that that their crews developed a
chemistry they're not they know how to play off each other,
and and the Fox people weren't getting that because this
(12:05):
was all they had and they weren't even using their
a crew at really any event other than the men's
us O. Right right before we take a preik, I'll
leave you with this quote from Glenn Neger. Uh. And
of course it all got off to such a brutal start.
They announced this while the PGA Championship is going on
at Oak Hill, and there was a PG of America
(12:28):
dinner and Glenn Neger went to that and he told
you for this story. Several people came over to congratulate me.
One said it was the biggest thing to happen to
golf since Tiger won the Masters. Now that's some that's
some serious delusional thinking. I won't ask you, as the
longtime ap man to comment on that. We'll take a
(12:49):
quick break here on the Shack Show and then we'll
talk a little bit more about Fox and then also
I get into two some women's golf issues coming up
with their return. All right, ron Uh, So you mentioned
(13:13):
they got off to that horrible start, But would you
agree or feel that they did finally really step up
and actually delivered the thing one of the things they
promised at the beginning, which was innovation. Did they do it?
I think they did? But yeah, I think they did.
I think technically, we thought we did see a lot
of innovation in there. Uh and uh, you know, uh,
(13:38):
one of the things that they focused on it that
you know, they're very very good at it what football
for instance, is bringing you uh sound of the games,
you know, and and uh, in addition to some of
the visuals stuff that they did, UM, they were very
respectful of if they was a conversation going on between
a player and a caddy, they were going to step
aside and let you listen to that, let you hear it,
(14:00):
So that they were they became more aware of trying
to bring the viewer inside the ropes and have them
and add to that feeling, Yes, that they improved on that,
no question. Yeah. And I mean we've seen that here
with CBS dealing with this issue with no fans in
this return and trying to get more sound and and
and and it's still a struggle with the players. But
(14:21):
obviously I think the fans have spoken that that people
have sound systems now that are better and it's just
it's just different. Um. And then of course they also
I think the tracer is sort of underrated that they
they really have forced that on the other networks. Um,
wouldn't you say though, that going forward it's going to
be without them. It's back to essentially two operations that
(14:45):
that we're relying on to to innovate. Well, you know,
I think the one thing that um that the U
s g A miscalculated on in this whole thing was
the the the importance of Golf Channel uh as part
of the the NBC deal because you know, again, let's
go to some of those those second tier or third
(15:07):
tier U s J events, go to like the Boys
and the Girls Junior, Golf Channel would cover that gavel
to gavel. You know, it's what they do. It's it's
all they do. Same thing with the four ball tournament,
you know. I mean all those events would have gotten
far far more exposure, and there would have been pregame
and postgame shows and and live from and all those
(15:28):
other things that the Golf Channel does because that's who
they are, the Golf Channel, and uh. And I I
think the U. S g A sort of um um
whipped on understanding, uh the importance of what of what
Golf Channel brought to the NBC deal. Yeah, And I
think it was really a cluster of people, as you
detailed in your story Gary Stevenson, Sarah Herschlin, Casey Wasserman,
(15:52):
who whose firm was consulting, and he was having discussions
with with Brian Roberts of Comcast up at Sun Valley.
I mean, some of the details you have are just
so fascinating to read now. The but but do you
think but were is the problem that they weren't golf people? Well,
you know, there was this little uh. I think that's
(16:14):
part of the problem. There was also like sort of
North Carolina cabal in all this, you know, you know
that that seemed to be And when they started to
set the stage for this uh Jim Heiler, who also
has North Carolina roots, was the U s g A
president then, and he's the one who started moving aside
some of the U s g A people who had
(16:35):
close ties to NBC people um Um Mark Carlson, who
was still technically still negotiating TV rights, was was was
taken out of this this TV contract negotiations. David Faye
UH was ended up leaving as a as a longtime
executive director of the organization and and they really started
(16:57):
setting up a negotiating team that had not been involved
with NBC during the twenty years that NBC had the
contract because because Nigger was worried, those people were had
had a built in biased as to where they wanted
it to go. And so yes, there were people who
and and quite frankly, neger was didn't have a deep,
(17:17):
lengthy tradition in golf. You know, he was relatively uh,
he had been fast tracked on from the executive Committee
of the U s g A into the president's role.
Looking back on it, probably in a large part to
negotiate this deal. It's a an inside golf business story.
And I think for a lot of people now it
(17:38):
probably is sort of okay, you know, why do we
care other than what do we get more tracer and
do we get good drone shots? But but why is
it important for the U s g A to be
relevant and to be to be strong and and and
how and and to get out of kind of this
whole where they've been weakened by this? Yeah, you know,
and think of the time when this came along, where
(17:59):
where the uh, the U s g A in some
ways was being um almost challenged by the PGA of
America as as the leader of the you know, the
representative of the rank and file golfer in America, the
long putter band UM, the ban on not being able
to post handicap scores for for a solo rounds of golf.
(18:21):
There were several things that the U s g A
did that a lot of people, a lot of people
that I play golf, we looked at and said, wait
a minute, that doesn't speak to me, you know. Uh.
And and so this came along at a time when
they're when they're UM authority in the game was being
weakened in other areas and and being being sort of
(18:41):
very subtly challenged by the PGA of America, which was
beginning to be seen more and more as representing the
grassroots golfer UM. I do think that getting back to UM,
they're gonna get They're gonna get a lot of love
from NBC and Golf Channel now going back on this contract,
(19:02):
and it's going to play out very very well for
them that way. Well, especially because based on the reporting
that we got by your your friend at AP, Doug
Ferguson and Joe Flint and sport in a Wall Street
Journal and Sports Business Journal as well by John Ran
that that it sounds like NBC is paying what they
paid in the previous deal and Fox is checking up
(19:25):
the rest. That's incredible. H One would hope that translates
to be able to throw out all the bells and
whistles and everything they do. Yeah, you know. Um, It's
one of the things that was a point of contention
is uh NBC always said that they were that they
were promised that they would get last at bats in
the contract negotiation, and that Nigger redequed on that promise.
(19:48):
There's there's conflicts about whether that's true or not. But
but NBC probably came in about ten million dollars a
year under uh the number that Fox was putting up there.
So so um, you know, it could very well be
that that ten million dollars a year now amounts to
what is Fox's buyout, you know, because that's less than
(20:10):
they were losing per year on I mean million dollars
a year. That's a lot of money to have to
get back when you're talking about, um, a good good
rating for the US Open is like an eight maybe,
you know, and so uh um, it's hard to make
the money back with that kind of rate. And now
that you are not exactly in the working in an
(20:33):
environment where you have to be careful what you say
about bifurcation, that big, ugly dirty word. Do you think
that's weakened the U s g A's position by holding
firm on on the idea that bifurcation of the rules
so that there are rules for pros and rules for amateurs.
Do you do you think that's weakened them? Well, I
(20:54):
I think it hasn't, you know. I mean, I know,
you know, one of one of the things about the
quarantine and everything that weve and going through. I haven't
traveled this little since n so I'm playing more golf
than I've played since I was in high school. And
the guys that I played golf with at my club all,
I mean, look, we have we have a de facto
(21:15):
bifurcation any you know any anyway, people there are gimmes,
there are Mulligan's. There were all these things that people
do um that uh aren't in the rules of golf. Now.
I think changes in the rules like UMU the out
of bounds lost ball change, you know, that's a good change.
That's something that's something that helps the pace of play.
(21:37):
The flagstick thing probably helps the pace of play, although
probably has have way more of an impact on the
pro game than in the amateur game because people are
making people who didn't used to put so well, they're
putting better. Just just anecdotically to me, um, but but
I do think that's true. And uh, Jeff, when when
(21:59):
when distance is going to become a significant issue for
the game is when? Look, you know how much I
love baseball. One of the great things about baseball Wrigley
Field and Fenway Park, We're built nineteen twelve and they're
still relevant. We can't afford to lose the Wrigley Fields
and the Fenway Parks of golf. You know, if there's
already four part four's at St. Andrew's that are drivable
(22:21):
if there's no wind there, um um um. We don't
want Augusta National or St. Andrew's or these great venues
to become obsolete and a three forty yard drives become
the norm and and that becomes a danger. Then it's
an issue that they're going to have to deal with.
But I just keep getting the feeling that they keep
(22:44):
taking baby steps towards bifurcation and that it's inevitable, but
it's happening probably slower than it should. Yeah, and by
the way, one other thing I realized when you were
discussing that, just back to the U S G A
Fox deal, that that that extra money brought them more
aches with golf professionals and wanting more money thrown into
(23:04):
the purse. Uh, not not spent growing the game. And
it's it's it was another byproduct of this deal. I
would say, let let's take a quick break and then
I want to talk LPGA. Alright, ron So, speaking of
(23:26):
golf courses and and our Wrigley Fields of golf, the
LPGA announced something that just shocked a lot of us
and thrilled the architecture geeks of the world, uh, and
the golf history buffs of the world that they are
going to restart on July thirty one at Inverness and Toledo.
Have you have you you've covered I assume you. I
(23:47):
think you covered the ninety p g A there right. Yeah,
So that's pretty exciting, uh. In terms of venue quality.
First of all, Internews has been away for a while
and now it's out a restoration and very excited. I
mean it was great pre restoration and just had some
funky hills, but now it looks just sensational, pretty big
coup for Mike Moan and the LPGA tour. Yeah, and
(24:08):
there's a lot that makes sense about that. The Solheim
Cup is going to be at Inverness next year, so
this is a way of sort of it's almost like
a preview of the Solheim Cup to get people talking
about it. And then they are going to stay in
to lead over the next week for the Marathon Classic.
So they're gonna they're gonna have back to back tournaments,
uh in the same town, so that you know, cuts
(24:31):
down in the travel everybody. Hundred and forty four players
playing for a million dollars the first week, a hundred
and fifty six playing for two million the second week. Um.
So so they get back going on a good uh,
a good venue and um some of the sponsors who
who's whose tournaments have not postponed but were canceled this
year in the LPGA are involved in putting up the
(24:53):
money for that first tournament and essentially just given the
players a pay day. You know, they haven't had a
paid a for a long time in lpg A, both
as an organization and as its players don't have anywhere
near the safety net below them. That PGA Tour players. Um,
they're playing for one fifth the money that PGA Tour
(25:14):
players have, So the players aren't as rich, the organizations
aren't as rich. The PGA Tour probably could afford to
lose this entire year and still be okay. What is
your sense from from players about this return are they
Are they feeling good about it? Do they feel it's
the right time? Um? Or is there some trepidation? I
(25:37):
think that the players have an enormous trust in Mike Juan,
the commissioner, and if you look at it, uh. The
LPGA was one of the first sports organizations affected by
COVID nineteen UM. They played the first two events in Florida,
the next two in Australia. Then they were supposed to
go China, Thailand, Singapore. Well on January thirty, first they
(25:59):
can unsold UM China. February two, they canceled Thailand Singapore.
So they started canceling events really before before anybody else
did because of where they play. The other challenge for
the LPGA about their players live outside the United States,
and Mike Juan made a promise to them, I'm going
to give you enough of a heads up, you know,
(26:21):
I'm going to give you forty five days notice, so
you have time to get back into the United States
quarantine if you have to, and get ready to play.
So I think the players figel that if Mike Juan
thinks that that it's safe to come back to play,
to compete now at the end of July and uh
in this venue, then they're gonna They're gonna trust him.
(26:44):
What will be interesting is in August they're supposed to
play at the Scottish Open and the Women's British Open,
which is a trouon um. You know, will those events happened,
you know, will there be travel restrictions on a May
Americans going over there? Uh? The tournament in Avian, France
has been canceled, and then in October they have another
(27:06):
Asia Swing and everyone's holding their breath that that that happens. Yeah. Well,
the so far, the UK has not the the the
EU did go through with its its restrictions today and
then also the CP Women's Open in Canada was canceled
today at the end of August. Um, so the the
(27:28):
LPGA has I have not seen much yet on what
they're planning to do, but I assume they're going to
use a lot of the things that the PGA Tour
has been doing well. You know, again again they don't
have the finances to like do charter planes, you know,
to get players around that. They're not going to do that. Um,
they're going to be uh, they're going to be spectators
(27:51):
at Marathon. I'm not entirely sure about the first one. No, no,
they're not at not at inter yes, no, yeah, yeah,
but the but the second one they are, And I
would imagine that there's going to be um um restrictions
on that. Uh. You know, I'm supposed to do um
the uh, the Women's British Open uh and then the
(28:13):
A and A Inspiration at Mission Hills uh in early September,
But I don't know yet whether I'm going to be
going to there because I imagine there's going to be
uh limits on how many people can be in the
media center. And I also think that the LPGA is
going to have some um financial considerations about how many
(28:33):
people they can they can send on the road too.
You've been playing a lot of golf during this time.
What How's how's the game functioning where you are? You're
in Massachusetts was one of the last states to allow
golf as I as I recalled, fact it was the
last Yeah, we uh, we're still uh, it's still one
(28:54):
person per cart unless it's a family member in there,
although they're coming up. I noticed today the course they
had cards with partitions between all your kidding, yeah, between
the driver's side and the passenger side. Now now, Jeff, anecdotally, um,
the National Golf Foundation is saying that um um sales
(29:15):
of beginnings beginners sets of clubs are way up, and
there's anecdotal evidence that there's that there's a lot of
new players in the game and a lot of people
who who played the game quit are coming back to
it because I think people are looking at golf as
a healthy activity that that you know, I mean, you're
social distancing just by the nature of the game. Uh.
(29:38):
At our golf course, you have to wear a mask
until you get the first tea. Then you can take
your mask off on the first team because you're not
really we don't take the flagsticks out. We have no
punker rakes, we have no ball washers. Um uh. And
the other good thing about golf is you play your
own equipment. You're not you're not touching somebody else's uh
(29:58):
uh quick them when they're out there. So it's it's
people are looking at it. I think now as as
a a safe activity uh in in the in these
troubled times. Yeah, the mask thing is it makes perfect
sense around the clubhouse and and then once you get
on the course it should be fine. Um is your
(30:18):
sense that that this is more than just a temporary thing,
that this is going to be a long term boost
for the sport. I do. I think it's going to
be a long term boost in terms of numbers. But boy,
I mean there's other ways it's having an impact. Like, uh,
our pro shops not open, so we're not selling any
merchandise in there. Our club I'm on, I'm on Cape Cod.
It's very very pretty up where we are. We do.
(30:40):
We had twenty six weddings scheduled for this year. Um
that's probably about a half million dollars in revenue that
we're not going to get at that club. So um
so and um um the food service, everything, all that
other spending is way down rounds played or up we're getting. Um.
My core is we have members, but we're also open
(31:01):
to the public and particularly enjoint tourist season we get
a lot of people in there. We are doing great
with off street traffic that way. But but there's what
they're spending on is just green FeAs and cartoons. All
that other spending in the pro shop, in the snack bar,
in the restaurant, all that other spending has been drastically impacted.
(31:23):
So thirty six years eighteen with a p. Eighteen with
Golf Digest, Golf World, what are you what are your
views on the state of media as you're now sort
of watching this and and dipping in times, still doing coverage.
But but I since you probably glad you worked when
you worked, how's that for a leading question? I got
(31:49):
old at the right time, you know, Golf World magazine
folded in and uh, you know, I mean the uh,
the NBC Fox US g As story that you reference.
Golf Digests gave me words to write that story. UM.
I don't think there's too many magazine pieces that are
that long. Now. In two thousand and seven, I went
(32:12):
with six LPGA players for two weeks on a humanitarian
mission to Rwanda. UM, Betsy King had organized that. Julie
Akster was on that trip. Went over, Uh, and they
gave me forty words to write that story ten pages
in the magazine. Uh. You know, I don't know if
we're seeing that kind of um um in depth stuff.
(32:32):
When I did the NBC, UH, Fox US g a
story for six weeks um golf digest um, it was,
it was all I did. They just detached me, you know,
to work only on that story for six weeks. And uh,
I don't know, you know, I I think when I
watched the movie uh Spotlight about the Boston Globes coverage
(32:54):
of the U of the sex abuse scandal in the
Catholic Church, and and I keep thinking, Wow, they worked
for like two years on that story. You know, I mean,
who has the financial resources to let reporters do that
kind of reporting now? So I I'm you know, in
in terms of golf, man, you know, I started with
(33:16):
Jack Nicholas, I ended with Tiger Woods. So uh, you know,
it doesn't really get you know, uh, it doesn't get
any better than that. And I and I covered at
a time when the print journalism was still extremely extremely
relevant and prospers. Well, I can't thank you enough for
taking a little time after your golf to to share
(33:37):
your your wisdom. And like I said, I will be
putting up in the show notes the link to the story.
It has aged very well in case you haven't read
it in a while. I don't know if you ever
go back, and do you ever go back and read
your stuff? You know I do, and uh and and
I reread that story. Um um, well, you know I
think the first new Well, I woke up yesterday morning
(33:59):
to a text from you about the TV deal and
a text from a from a source that I had
at at UH at NBC about about the deal. And
I went back and I reread my story then. And
I'm always surprised when I go back and I'll say, gee,
that story is not as bad as I remember the Usually,
(34:21):
by the time I get to the end of working
on a story, I hate the story, you know, I've
just been around it so much. I feel like, oh, this,
this is just horrible. And uh and that one was
was less bad than I remembering. And it's probably a
sign that you also exhausted all possible avenues to get
the story right. So it's why you're an outstanding reporter.
(34:42):
Uh Ron. Thank you so much for the time, and
again I will urge everybody to go check out the
piece and We'll look forward to your coverage when the
LPGA Tour returns. Always a pleasure, Jeff, look forward to
cross and pass down the road. All right, thanks Ron.
Good to hear Ron's voice again, and not so good
in some respects for the good folks at Fox who
(35:03):
did really pull it together in the last few years
and do a super job that that one big week
a year and and the other weeks that they worked. Um,
so it's a it's a strange story. It's been an
incredible story that we've all covered, and um it's a
very first world inside business story. But I think golf
people enjoy a good business story. They're interested in it.
(35:24):
It tells you a lot about the people running the
game and where all this money goes and what it
all means for for viewers. And and TV stories are
of course fascinating just because it's such a big part
of the product of golf and the the presentation of it,
and it's so radically alters our enjoyment of a broadcast
depending on how it's it's put forward. And then of
(35:47):
course it is just and as the TV people will
tell you, the toughest sport of all to cover. Hey,
the Shack Show is produced by Tim per Rochkin is
a production of I Heart Radio. So for more podcasts
from my heart, please visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.
So until next time, please be safe and thank you
for listening to The Shack Show
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!