January 21, 2025 • 51 mins
Congrats to the Ohio State Buckeyes, college football's newest National Champion! In this college football podcast episode, we talk back through Ohio State's big win, an outstanding game for Will Howard, an enormous game-clinching play for Jeremiah Smith, and the redemption arc for head coach Ryan Day. We discuss Notre Dame's late surge to get within striking distance, the impact of Riley Leonard, another huge game for Jaden Greathouse, and the curious case of Marcus Freeman's decision to kick a late game field goal. Plus, a chat about the takeaways from the first 12-team CFP, the way-too-early odds for 2025, and Ty's opportunity, after several years, to watch a big Notre Dame game with Mama H.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the solid verbal hull.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty. I've heard
so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for dake Edo State? Is
that woo woo?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And no them and tie, Dan Rubinstein, we have a
new national champion. Congratulations to the Ohio State Buckeyes. Thirty
four to twenty three is your final? Yes, they beat
the Notre Dame fighting irish. We will talk about this
game every angle that we jotted down on our legal pads,
(00:38):
and much much more over the next forty five minutes
to an.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hour or so.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good sir, welcome back here on the final evening of
the season, the last game, as.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The Buckeyes emerged victorious. My friend, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It doesn't matter how I am, ty, People are not
tuning in to hear what a sad Oregon human has
to say about Ohio State Notre Dame. They're here to
hear you, and people love you, people cherish you, people
worship you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Right, stop licking the boots.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's okay, it's all right, we're gonna make it okay.
Here here's how I am. I was worried we wouldn't
have a good game, and then it turns out for
a stretch it seemed like we were going to have
a good game, that there was momentum that even though
a first half gave us, you know, an interesting start,
(01:30):
and then a wave of the other team starting out
and it seemed like we were heading to a dark
place for the Notre Dame half of this universe and
an incredible tidal wave of joy for the Ohio State
side of this universe. That we actually had two fan
bases that were probably nervous at a very specific time
(01:53):
in the middle of the fourth quarter of this game, which, again,
as somebody who know nobody in this fight for me,
was pretty happy that we had that the spirit of
competition late.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I think that tracks. Yeah, I think that absolutely tracks. Look,
this was a game that started off with a long
nine minute and forty five second drive and eighteen plays
seventy five yard drive with Notre Dame grinding away at
that first quarter clock. Riley Leonard eventually punches it into
put Notre Dame up seven zip. You're thinking, all right,
(02:27):
Notre Dame's found a way to control the clock. This
is the style of game that we talked about in
our preview. How did that play defense against Ohio State?
You want to try and keep the offense off the
field as best you can. Well, then Notre Dame stalls
out in the next couple drive.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Before that, before that, before that, what happened to Riley
Leonard after that first nine almost ten minute drive in
which it was I don't even know, it was Riley
left and righty right, it was Riley straight ahead, Riley gap.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It was also Riley running to the sidelines and puking
after that drive because.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Not ideal in home and is large that you have
run your quarterback. I mean, I'm sure he was very
enthusiastic about it, but into the ground to the point
even with that seven nothing lead, where some sort of
mix of hits and adrenaline and nerves and the sweet
sweet cocktail that is life, he's puking up his guts
(03:18):
on the sidelines, as per I think Holly Row reported that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And then second quarter that's when Ohio State started to
get its act together. Touchdowns on I believe four consecutive
drives that put them up twenty eight to seven at
the start of the third quarter, eventually thirty one to
seven about midway through the third quarter. That's when Notre
Dames started to chip away. They got two really nice
(03:45):
Jaden Greathhouse plays, one on a run from him as
he broke a tackle, spun out of it, and then
ran for a thirty four yard touchdown pass. Then a
second one a beautiful drop in the bucket from Riley
Leonard with about four minutes and fifteen seconds left in
the fourth quarter. Notre Dame had a chance at this
one late third and long. Just so happens, Will Howard
(04:06):
spots up Jeremiah Smith, who was you know, relatively held
in check for a good chunk of this game, but
he is manned up one on one with Christian Gray.
He burns Christian Gray deep Will Howard a nice throw.
That's pretty much what put this one on ice for
the Buckeyes again. They win thirty four to twenty three.
Why don't we start here, Dan, and why don't I
(04:27):
start with you? Since I clearly am a biased third
party in this matter, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I feel like you are still buffering right, you are
still collecting your thoughts and your emotions and your takes
for the game, for the season, for the Notre Dame
side of things, for macro and micro decisions. You're you're
still in it, TI.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I don't want you to handle me with kid gloves,
all right, No, but I'm through this like the men
that we are. Okay, Well, sometimes sometimes I am processing
good real time. This is why I want to start
with you with a okay. Ohio State went out. They
did what they have been doing throughout this tournament, which
(05:08):
is a fast start, which is scorgan their first drive,
which is basically putting teams in this impossible riddle, which is, well,
if you want to play the pass a little bit
too much, we'll run it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
If you want to play the run a little bit
too much, then we're going to pass it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
If you find a way to contain both, then Will
Howard is going to do a little bit more with
his legs. We saw a lot more of that from
him this game against Notre Dame. It worked to great effect.
I guess, looking at the Ohio State side of things
as compared to what you thought coming in when we
did our preview episode last week, any surprises, any big takeaways,
what comes to mind first when you think of the
(05:44):
performance we saw from Ohio State tonight.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's just variety, variety from Ohio State. And even though
you know it wasn't a dominant rushing performance, but Ohio
State opened up the second half of the seventy yard
run from Quinn Shawn Judkins, and the numbers won't sparkle
and flash, but he was incredible, running tough in the
red zone right that they were timely on the ground
(06:08):
that it wasn't Jeremiah Smith highlight catch after highlight catch
like it was against Oregon or Tennessee relatively early on,
but obviously the threat of that was something that Notre
Dame was contending with. And whether it was Carnel Tait
or Brandon Ennis or g Scott once or twice, definitely
a meccha Abuca had at least a couple of drives
where he was the guy for Ohio State, not just
(06:30):
the receiver, but he was the guy that things were
opening up for him downfield or even in the intermediate
or shorter space that he was able to turn into
a little bit more that it was the variety. It
was Will Howard with his legs in timely moments. It
was just very apparent that Ohio State's plan and confidence
was it was just ahead of where Notre Dame was.
(06:53):
I really liked what Notre Dame came out and did
where they're just like, you know what, we need to
limit possessions here, we need to third and shorts and
it's very difficult to bring Riley Leonard down and so
we are going to try to dictate the the rhythms
of this game. It's not a strategy that is going
to hold up against this kind of Ohio State team
(07:14):
for four quarters. But if you're going to shorten the
game and turn that nine minute drive into six, that's
a win right off the bat, that's a win. So
in terms of where Ohio State was, they weren't perfect.
They obviously made mistakes in the secondary in this game,
particularly in the second half with a couple holdings and
pis the pass rush obviously the defensive line for Ohio State,
(07:34):
especially JTT. I think he got a sack, but he
was hobbled and went down in the second half, but
came back pretty quickly. Notre Dame just I don't know
if the moment was too big for the Irish early,
but at no point, and I don't know if it
was because of the size of the Rose Bowl and
the size of the Cotton Bowl, for Ohio State, they
(07:54):
just seemed that emotionally and x's and o's wise and
the ability to adjust, they were ready quicker and Notre
Dame got there in the second half that they knew
that they had to throw, but Notre Dame didn't seem
prepared to have a game plan for Jeremiah Love, especially
either through the air or on the ground, whereas there
(08:16):
was something very telling about Ohio State's plan for each
individual player. And even when Ohio State was sort of
going more conservative and trying to sit on a lead
laid and giving the ball back pretty quickly, and even
when they gave they coughed up. I think it was
a mecha Buka who coughed up the fumble on the reverse.
It was a long play, it was a long successful
play for Ohio State before that fumble, it wasn't a
(08:37):
stuffed run and the ball got stripped. And so Ohio
State had such a great plan for an excellent Notre
Dame defense that was basically, let's keep them on their toes,
keeping it to the outside of the field with this receiver,
these receivers, and Will Howard was just pinpoint what here's
supposed to do when a guy starts out fourteen to
fifteen against a great defense.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, Howard was really good. He had time to throw.
In my view, he was the player of the offense
for this Ohio State team. His ability to make some
hay on the ground before that long run by Quinn
Shawn Judkins. I guess if you take that seventy yard
(09:20):
out of the equation, Will Howard would have been the
team's leading rusher. He had sixteen carries for fifty seven yards.
He was sensational through the air. What was striking to
me actually for large chunks of this game, maybe not
so much in the first half, but definitely down the stretch.
Ohio State almost reverted to a Notre Dame style of
offense in this one, where they were using a lot
(09:42):
of Will Howard, where they were focusing a little bit
more on misdirection and trying to do some ground and
pound stuff. I mean, the pass was there, for sure,
it was there, clearly Will Howard had a lot of
success through the air. But there were definitely chunks of
this one, especially later on, where it felt like I
was watching a little bit of what I saw this
season from Notre Dame and they were using that to
(10:05):
just maintain possession, to wind the clock, to avoid mistakes,
that sort of thing, and it worked.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
They were able to hold on.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
The Other thing that jumped out to me, I think
in the Ohio State side was really the interesting chess
match that we saw early. They talked about it a
little bit on the broadcast, and I know we gave
specific mention of Notre Dame's man defense in our preview.
We've really been talking about it all season long, certainly
in this playoff, But the ability for Ohio State to
(10:36):
diagnose what Notre Dame was doing. I think it was
Herbie on the broadcast who said that they were mixing
things up. Even Ryan Day said it at halftime. They
were mixing things up. They were playing man and they
were playing zone. They were playing man, they were playing zone.
They were mixing it up a lot more than they
would normally, breaking a huge tendency of theirs, which was
playing a lot of cover one, a lot of man
across the board with the roaming safety. They were very
(10:59):
much following that Texas playbook at least to the extent
that Notre Dame could, which was playing a little bit
more zone, trying to keep receivers in front of you
try to avoid getting burnt by the deep pass. For
a good chunk of this game, they did that. They
didn't do it on a big third down late, which
essentially sealed the deal. That one went to Jeremiah Smith
for fifty six yards whatever it was to get them
(11:20):
down near the goal line. But I thought Notre Dame
had a pretty good game plan, at least in theory
for trying to mix things up and prevent against that
big passing play. But Ohio State, to your point, had
a really good game plan to try and answer, which.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Was we're going to run the ball.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
If you leave an edge unguarded, we're going to let
Will Howard run it. It's really just the riddle that
we have been talking about with Ohio State that I
mentioned at the top. Here, you do one thing, you
over commit to one thing, they have two other ways
that they can beat you. And frankly, there weren't a
whole lot of defenses. There were no defenses throughout this tournament.
Probably not many in college football that can handle that,
(11:58):
especially when they are playing this effectively, this productively.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
They didn't get to this point until after that Michigan
game and at that point. They found this next year
and they just cruised through the competition.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, there was just nothing for Notre Dame on the
ground in this one. I talked about figuring out ways
to get Jeremiah Love involved, and what did you end
up with like four carries for three yards in this game.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, I mean, this is very much a Notre Dame
team that was not built for this moment. And by
this moment, I don't This is not me saying that
they weren't built to be in a national championship game.
They weren't built to play against a team like an
Ohio State. They weren't built to be down this much
this soon to have to turn it over to Riley
Leonard to start throwing. Now, obviously Riley had some success
(12:47):
later on in this game. It was too little, too late,
but they were able to make some big plays down
the field. They were able to find some of those
chunk plays that we talked about in our preview. Albeit
for not They end up losing by eleven, But at
least in the early going, it did seem like it
took him a little bit to try and figure out,
all right, what is the new game plan here?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Another thing they mentioned on the broadcast.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I think it was Chris Fowler talking about how he
was mystified by how little they were using Jeremiah Love.
And it wasn't even like they were using him in
the passing game. He was open, by the way on
that series where they ended up kicking a field goal,
puzzlingly so, trying to kick the field goal to make
it a two score. Yeah, I don't know what that was,
miss Jeter. Doinks it Jeremiah Love opening the flat for
(13:31):
what looked to be a walk in touchdown. He missed
him on that one, Riley did. But other than that,
Jeremiah Love was relatively quiet in this one because they
were down so much so soon that they could not
rely on their running game, you know, to to really
even all their way back into this thing. It was
it was too big of a mountain to climb, even
(13:52):
for the running game.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I was really impressed by the way on that same
token that Ohio State came out. I think it was
quinch On Judkins lined up out why early on, well
here's a quick eight, right, here's a quick seven or
eight that Jeremiah Love wasn't used like that, or Jadarium
Price wasn't used like that, like here's something easy because
Riley Leonard if nothing else, especially after that first drive,
I don't know if he was emotionally gassed. I don't
(14:13):
know if he was physically gassed. I suppose. You know,
he's a national championship caliber quarterback. He is in shape,
he is ready to roll. He has beaten good teams.
But those next two drives that they just seem so off,
and he seemed skittish throwing the ball. He was almost
trying to guide the ball instead of just throwing easy
crossers and screens that he was missing, wasn't reading well.
(14:34):
He was being protected pretty well, I thought, and he
was just late processing, late to guys. And it didn't
seem like there were a ton of backbreaking penalties for
Notre Dame or for either one of these teams. Obviously
there wasn't backbreaking even with those defensive holding and they
had the big one.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
On rj Obin the roughing the passer, but.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
That was a fumble drive. That was the same drive
as the FuMB I believe.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But it was, you know, I mean, there were a
couple penalties early in their first three drives. Their second
drive in particular, where they had two penalties that set
him back put them off schedule. I think there was
a penalty on the ensuing drive as well. It was
not a game beyond that though that was crippling in
terms of the fouls, right, I mean, they were able to,
(15:20):
I think, maintain some degree of discipline and it was
really just this riddle again of trying to solve what
Ohio State was doing and not so much beating themselves,
at least not with penalties. Now, there were passes in
this game that, especially early that Riley Leonard miss I
also talked about the one later with Jeremiah Love where
it seemed as if that could have been a score. Yep,
(15:42):
didn't work out. Riley I think came to his senses
later in this one. Early he was pretty jazzed up
and probably took a while to recuperate after that opening drive.
He definitely got it together later was able to move
the ball down the field. Jaden Greathhouse had another great game.
He did extra Notre Dame six for one to twenty eight,
(16:02):
two touchdowns, a great catch, a great run, I mean,
really making a name for himself over these last two games.
But at least before that, there were definite moments where
you wondered if the passing game was ever going to
get itself on track, because it was it just didn't
seem like he was comfortable he wanted to run it.
But when he wanted to run it, when it wasn't
a designed run, Ohio State was there. When he wanted
(16:24):
to look down the field, he had guys open in
some cases where he was just missing the throws to
Chris Mitchell and whatnot. So there are definitely going to
be some things on tape that they look at and
they wish they had back. I don't know if any
of those things necessarily put them over the hump here
because they still think Ohio State was the better team.
But there were a couple of those that if you're
a Notre Dame fan, certainly if you're a Notre Dame player,
(16:46):
you're going to go back and say, Aha, that that's
one we'd like to have back.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, especially early on. You know, obviously Ohio State's coming
out and their first I'm not going to play divorceac
but it was touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, field goal. They
were up twenty one to seven a half time. Obviously
they killed it. With the middle eight. I thought the
Notre Dame defense, all things considered, yeah, like the corners. Look,
Christian Gray got burned in the biggest moment of the game.
(17:11):
He did, and he got burned by a player who's
going to burn every corner these next two years before.
I mean, he should be in the NFL next year,
but he's got two more years of eligibility before he
can be in Jeremiah Smith. They weren't being muscled out
for fifty to fifty balls. They weren't being mossed. This
wasn't a Notre Dame team with like a killer edge
(17:33):
rusher or anything all year long. I think it was
a Josh Burnham who had a couple sacks.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, Josh Burnham had the two sacks. And look, this
is a defensive line that's been pretty nicked up. It
really hurt losing Riley Mills when they did back in
the playoff, right, I mean, that was a big time
blow because he led their team in sacks. He was
a huge presence in the middle, not just a run stopper,
but obviously somebody who could be disruptive in the passing game.
(17:58):
Is well, you lose a guy like that, they had
able bodied replacements step in and I think do a
pretty good job, but it just changed the dynamics so
much of what you can do up front.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It's also so with those touchdowns. Part of that is
also Notre Dame's offense in terms of complimentary football on
the field for a minute and change those second and
third drives. I think they netted negative four yards on
those second and third drives and that just puts your
own defense in a tough position. You're going to get
(18:27):
more tired legs. And I just I thought Ohio State
was just more on time. They didn't crush Notre Dame
up front, they were just more on time. This is
when an inbreaking route is supposed to be open, Will
Howard's throwing it on time. He's confident that whoever it is,
Carnel Tait or a Mecca Buca is going to be
there when he's supposed to be there. And yet once again,
this wasn't Notre Dame guys being torched. For the most part,
(18:50):
Notre Dame was setting the edge. Ohio State was just
they have really strong players who were well developed and
had a great game plan and were better. There was
something that like you could feel like the weight almost
coming off of Riley Leonard's shoulders once they were down,
like they were yeah, when he was like, you know,
let's just throw it own the ball downfield to Mitchell
(19:10):
Evans and Jaden Greathhouse and let's see what they can
do up the sideline. The middle of the field seemed
to be more successful. I think Mitchell Evans had a
thirty three yard catch that was shedding a couple tackles,
faked a guy out and was super impressive. You know
it was it came down to moments and whether it
was those third downs that Will Howard was able to
(19:30):
pick up with his legs. The fake punt, it was
a good call and it was well executed until a drop.
It was a good enough pass to keep that drive goal.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It should have just run a normal play if they
were going to do that. But fair point, fairpoint, I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I outside of that weird field goal decision by Marcus
Freeman light which just to reiterate, it was a two
possession game, they were down sixteen points. They decide It
seemed like it was a hurried decision. It didn't seem
like anybody was thinking this thing through. But they're down sixteen,
(20:05):
they elect that they're going to send the field goal
unit out there to kick the field goal, and I
guess keep it as a two score game.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You need two touchdowns, You need just two touchdowns to
take the lead, tie whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So it was. It was a strange decision. Mich Jeter
ends up jinking it off the left upright. It didn't
go over three points, but you know, to your point
on the third down efficiency for Ohio State, this was
I think an emerging storyline early nine of twelve on
third down for the buck guys. At one point they
were six for six. It just felt like the Notre
Dame defense could not get off the field. It wasn't
(20:39):
until I think a little bit later on in this game,
when Al Golden started to dial up some pressure started
to try and make will Howard be a bit uncomfortable.
Up until that point, they had done it sparingly. It
seemed as if they felt they could play some coverage
against this Ohio State passing attack. It didn't really work
that well well. Howard was able to pick his spot
(21:00):
once they made him a little bit more uncomfortable. Once
they were I think finding their way a bit more
with the running game are guarding against the running game,
I should say it. It seemed like things balanced out
a little bit at that point, but it still remained
this huge puzzle to solve because again, you've got this
three headed monster. How do you stop all three? Will
Howard the rushing game as well as the passing game.
(21:23):
So I think Notre Dame did about as well as
it could once it had a chance to settle in late.
Clearly they were able to hold Ohio State. You know,
in the dying moments of this game within striking distance.
There was the big pass play to Jeremiah Smith when
they burnt Christian Gray. But the Notre Dame defense put
itself in a position to make some plays to give
(21:44):
the offense an opportunity to score some points.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It just wasn't enough in the end.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Ohio State with four hundred and forty five total yards
in this one, they outgained Notre Dame by about one
hundred and fifty yards. So it's four to forty five
to three oh eight, give or take Notre Dame with
more pass yards. Obviously they had a throw for the
majority of the second half. Clearly Ohio State with a
lot more on the ground. Two fourteen to fifty three.
(22:09):
In my view, that was sort of the difference, right,
Their effectiveness on the ground, interestingly enough, not a unit
that we look at and say that's a great rushing team, right,
Still don't think they're a great rushing team, Dan, but
they have guys who stepped up, won the moments. Quinn
Shawn Judkins a big run, some tough runs in the
(22:30):
red zone, Trey Henderson showing his burst, Will Howard showing
a little bit more on the ground than we've seen
this season. This has been a story, I think throughout
the playoff as well. Not a team we've associated this
year with having an electric round attack, but.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Should be noted left tackle goes down during the Oregon game,
first round left tackle and Josh Saimillie Seth McLaughlin before
McLaughlin before the penn'sun Absolutely, I believe absolutely everybody's beat
up at this point. But that does affect things, of
course does affect things.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But they were more than good enough to use that
running game to their advantage here.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, No, I think that's right. It was. It was
a fascinating back and forth in that first half, and
I'm I think it was the first touchdown, just in
terms of pure play design that it was Jeremiah Smith
lined up one on one with Christian Gray. I believe
at the at the top of our TV screen.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I did not like the Gray versus Smith matchup. There
was a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Really.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I don't know how big Gray is. I know Leonard
Moore is a bigger Yeah, he's also a freshman six
twoish or something, right.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I really would have preferred it be Leonard Moore, And
we did see a little bit of that early. It
ended up being Christian Gray in some of the key moments,
and it was clear that whether Gray was on Abuca,
whether he was on Jeremiah Smith, he was the guy
that they were going after.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
He was a guy that they were going after.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
That on that first touch I was just gonna mention
the play design was great. It was when you saw
the reverse angle, Christian Gray was like, something is up.
I should have helped something is up. I should have
help ye And it was a fake reverse swing pass
to Jeremiah Smith and was just had nobody near him.
It was a great play design, it was great execution.
And Ohio State also left was it Carnel Tait who
(24:12):
had the sort of slang go the slugo that he
was overthrown for. I don't know if that was Gray
or Leonard Moore on that one, but you know, good
play design, good execution there. And so I just will
Howard was just not off at all in this game.
And you know, there's no a formula for beating this
version of Ohio State. Doesn't matter anymore. The season's done,
(24:34):
this team is done. But I do wonder what Notre
Dame with Riley Mills healthy, Howard cross whatever, because that's
that's literally it. You have to have an overwhelming defensive
line to have a chance against this version of Ohio
State and Notre Dame. I don't you know, I don't
(24:54):
know what they look like in Week seven when everybody
was healthy with Riley Mills and everything been.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Healthy all year.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I really haven't been healthy all year, right, I mean
they lost Jordan Betello very early on in this one. Yeah,
you know, they've been licking their wounds since almost the
preseason if you want to go back to some of
their injuries along the offensive line. So this has been,
as I said in the last episode, kind of the
story of the year for this team. Outside of that,
NIU loss in Week two. It's been dealing with injuries
(25:21):
and rebounding from them as they continue to pile on.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
By the way, I don't know, he may have had
a penalty jag you saw at left tackle right Riley
Leonard was like when he would take his drops and
step into the pocket, if he were throwing on time
and in rhythm. He was kept pretty clean. This wasn't
a Notre Dame offensive line that was taken advantage of
(25:46):
by I know, going into the game, you were worried
about Tyler Williams. Yeah, this wasn't a collapsing pocket. Consistently,
this wasn't. I mean, obviously, the Ohio State front did
a great job against Notre Dame on the ground, but
in in terms of pushing this offensive line around in
the passing game, especially in the second half, Notre Dame's
(26:06):
offensive line patchworck as it was kind of held up fine.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I thought it held up fine, and I thought they
held up fine given the deficit that they had to
try and crawl out of. This has been one of
the characteristics of this team that we have seen on
display a couple times through the playoff, sparingly throughout the year,
where they face a little bit of adversity.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And they find ways to win moments.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And with them being down twenty four points relatively late
in this game, there was no give up in this
team at all.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
There was no give up.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
They weren't punting in weird fourth down situations, correct, They
were leaving it all out there on the field. And
I thought Riley Leonard rose to the moment. I thought,
Jayden Greathhouse. You mentioned Mitchell Evans. I thought as a collective,
they were very good at trying to keep themselves in
this football and they didn't win. I think the better
team won definitely, but I do think Notre Dame deserves
(27:07):
some credit for fighting this one tooth and nail to
the very bitter end. I think it's falls number one loser,
Notre Dame number one loser. There, yeah, the runner up.
I think it says a lot about this coaching staff,
and I think it's in a sense emblematic of the
season because after that NIU loss, it would have been
easy for many of the guys in this team to
(27:30):
give up, to give up the vision of maybe making
a tournament like this, or even making it this deeply
in the tournament. The fact that they made it here
at all really is a pretty good story for them
and something that they can build on.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think Notre Dame will be fine.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
They do lose a fair amount next season, but we'll
deal with that in due course.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Dan.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
I give Marcus Freeman, the staff, the players a lot
of credit for the way they were able to hang
with Ohio State in this one down the stretch when
it felt like things could be out of hand. Last though,
I think the better team wins, the better team wins
again thirty four to twenty three. At least we've got
a relatively good game out of it.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
It felt decent. Near the end, there was a long
stretch where I imagine Ohio State fans felt like things
were just coaston and Notre Dame fans were in their
feelings about how the rhythms went.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Both teams finished fourteen and two sixteen games apiece from
both of these schools, which is a lot that's more
than we're used to. I think it's pretty clear where
Marcus Freeman is at now. Marcus Freeman in year three,
making the National Championship, recruiting well, seemingly has a lot
(28:46):
of forward momentum with this program, going to have a
new quarterback, going to have a bunch of new faces
next year. But there aren't a whole lot of people
who covered the sport as closely as you and I
around the country that think Noted is anything other than
a top ten team going into next season. They appear
to have a lot in place for a sustained run
(29:07):
at this playoff, maybe more cracks at a national championship.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
The same is definitely true for Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I was like, should we talk about the winning team
and the narrative surrounding the Buckeyes.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, that is where I am going with this, because
that I think is the more interesting angle. Ohio State
loses to Michigan.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
First off, they lose to your Oregon Ducks on the
road by one point?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Is that so okay?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Then say what you want about the NIU loss back
in week two for Notre Dame. The most inexplicable upset
from my vantage point all season was Ohio State with
thirteen weeks to prepare, with thirteen weeks of tape, knowing
exactly what this Michigan team was, only scoring ten points
and losing that rivalry. I don't know how that happened.
(29:55):
I don't know what the game plan was. That to
me is the most confusing thing I saw all season long,
full stop.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, clearly there is a lot attached to that game.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
There's a lot of weight that's been on the shoulders
of Ryan Day as a result of losing yet another
one to Michigan.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
For them to rebound, come back through the tournament, maul
everybody they played, and end up winning this tournament, that
is a redemption arc for Ryan Day, is it not?
As we did a show with ari Ari Wasserman, our
friend from on three from Andy and aar I remember
in the immediate aftermath of that Michigan game, and you
(30:34):
and I talked through there are clips out there, you
can go and find them on the social channels, talking
through what does this mean for ran? Where does Ohio
State go from here? It felt like almost just lost
and wayward and more soul searching. Ryan Day had talked
about how this was like roughly equivalent to losing family members.
(30:57):
I mean, it was a big deal for them to
lose this game and to struggle with Michigan. To now
come back and win this title, I think says a
lot about him. Obviously, It's the first page of the
bio for him. That to me, I think if we
take a step back as we talk about this now,
as we enter the offseason, is sort of where my
(31:18):
mind goes first, just that redemption arc for Day.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean, he has the opportunity to do the funniest
thing now and just leave the Ohio State job. And
I don't know if there are any open NFL jobs
at the time we're recording this, if like the Saints
or whoever is still open. No, he's not going to
leave Ohio State, at least not now, not for any
opportunities available as we can see them right now. An
incredible redemption arc for Ryan Day and Ohio State. And
(31:45):
you know, they put up the stats about the coaches
all time with the best winning percentage having coached a
minimum fifty games, Like, he's had an incredible run and
has also lost four straight games to Michigan. It's this
incredibly unique situation where he's so very clearly excellent and
(32:06):
one of the top coaches in this sport that are
currently coaching, that have coached recently. You can't really in
good faith argue otherwise unless you are very specifically an
Ohio State fan. Who has a lot of understandably so
emotion wrapped up in the Michigan rivalry. Again understandably. So
it's just wild to think about the unique nature of
(32:28):
both being excellent and losing four in a row to Arrival.
And that's college football. Obviously we have situations like this,
but it is wild to think about that Ohio State.
And this is one of the I would argue great
things about sports and sports that have longer seasons is
it allows teams to have seasons that are living, breathing
(32:49):
things that if you're an NBA team, you can lose
six games in a row and it's not the end
of the world because it's March and you have time
to figure things out and you're like, oh, this guy
was heard. Oh we were in our head about this.
Oh we the shooting went cold or our hitting went cold.
For a baseball team, that it is a good thing
for a team to have a down stretch and figure
(33:11):
it out and dig their way out of it. That's
a good thing. We've just never had that in this sports.
We've just never had an organized postseason that allows for
that kind of breathing room. And so in the last
decade since Ohio State last won a national championship against
(33:32):
America's team, my big beautiful Oregon Ducks in the twenty
fourteen season, which I think they also they lost their
opener to Virginia Tech. I want to say that was
the year in which they lost that game, but to
have two losses if this were a literal year ago,
Ohio State's not in his conversation for being in nor
is notre names of the post.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Either team in last year's setup right would be in
the tournament, and Notre Dame at least is closer to it.
But yes, they would have had an egregious loss when
you started comparing resumes and not crazy impressive wins as
much as Texas A and M at least had a
moment kind of two thirds of the way into the
ear before fading. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
We would have had, you know, Georgia and Texas and
Penn State and Oregon or some commonate who knows what
exactly the fourteen playoff looks like, because that's not the
reality in which we live. It's just wild to think
about that we have this playoff for a few different reasons.
I guess right, it's more access to teams, but it's
also going to advantage teams that are built like and
(34:32):
have seasons like Ohio State, that have the depth to
bounce back, have the wherewithal to bounce back, have the
coaching quality, the coordinators, the assistants to diagnose and bounce
back and to fulfill their potential. Even though in the
last one hundred and fifty years, if you lose the
(34:53):
way that they lost to Michigan and are not playing
for a conference championship, which is of course a new
part of this sport relatively speaking, that Ohio State's not
in this position to prove that at least at their best,
they're better than everybody, because this would have been a
team in some sort of second tier bowl game and
(35:13):
they would have blown somebody out, maybe depending on who
does or does not opt out, and we could have
had that conversation, I guess, like we did with the
Ohio State team that lost to Michigan State team and
Zeke is you know, sick and not getting carries and
urban Meyer like that was a similar situation. But this
new system Afford's breathing room, which we want the best
(35:38):
team to win. How we define that moving forward is
going to be interesting. But two losses now is okay?
That is that is there is now a blueprint, and
I don't know how quickly we're going to change this tournament,
but we are in a world in which we allow
(35:58):
a do over, we allow a mullet again, and that's
just something we all have to make peace with because
Ohio State proved it on the field.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I want to keep the focus on Ohio State. I
want to keep the focus on Notre Dame since these
are the two teams that were in it. But I
will say, if we zoom out a second, we know
because we have seen the comments that have come into
us throughout the course of the year, in the year
leading up to this year, with respect to this new
(36:27):
twelve team format, it's different.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
It's different.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's very different from what a lot of us are
used to even for you and I. I mean, we
went like three weeks without knowing what day it was
because they're playing these games one days other than Saturday,
so our whole world is built around Saturdays for like
six months out of the year. I mean it it
threw us all for a loop. I do think in retrospect,
it was, if nothing more, very interesting. It added an
(36:55):
element of intrigue to the postseason. You may not like
the fact that a two loss team is crowned national
champion or even allowed into this tournament.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
That is your prerogative.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But Boise had to buy, Asu had to buy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, there are parts of this that I think we
all can point to and say that should be fixed,
That could be tweaked, that needs to be honed. Nothing
needs to be in its final perfect state the first
time through. Okay, and this definitely is no exception, But
(37:28):
I see the numbers for our show, and I can
tell you just based on the traction that we got
over the last month and a half, there was real
interest in this playoff.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
There was real it's your interest in this playoff.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You're one, of course you're one.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And we're going to take some time, i'm sure, this
offseason to go through and evaluate if and when there
was a drop off in terms of that fan interest,
where maybe they can make some twet to I guess,
improve the product for people, to make sure that the
most people are watching at least to keep it entertaining
for everybody who likes college football. But if nothing more,
(38:12):
the data that I have suggests that it was interesting,
and I tend to agree. Now, I wanted this from
the start, and maybe I'm again a biased third party here,
but I do think if nothing more, I know we
had some blowouts, I know it's not perfect, and I
know it still isn't for everybody, but definitely it did
make things interesting down the stretch, and for that I
(38:34):
am grateful because before this it was a lot of
Bowl games that frankly were exhibitions with a ton of
opt outs. We at least got to see what I
think was a pretty high level tournament. So that was
new and that was cool.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And we're still talking about a Bowl slate that mostly
had no pop tarts. There was a pop tart game,
there was a pop tart game, but mostly no pop tarts.
That's right, So that's something that probably need to be reconfigured.
We just need more tasty toaster. I don't even like
pop tarts. I don't know where are we going that
I like the concept of pop tarts. No, I think
(39:10):
you're right. No, it's it's wild to think about, just
because of the length of these schedules and how the
sport is calibrated with portal stuff, with nil stuff that
like the the Razor's edge at which both of these
teams operated. That we talked about this a little bit
(39:31):
on the preview that like, all right, what if Mike
Elcho was like, I don't want to go to College Station,
I'm gonna stick around, and Ryley Leonard's happy in Durham
And same goes for like what if Kansas State didn't
fully make it clear that they were ready to move
on to Avery Johnson and Will Howard's NFL draft grades
weren't as good as he had hoped, And like, there's
just there's so many moving parts with all of this,
(39:53):
and like or if Ohio State is in the Big
Ten Championship game because they don't lose that Michigan game,
And there's just there's so much that I think the
committee and the people behind the scenes of the College
Football Playoff have to figure out with how the postseason
is organized. It was year one. I have no faith
(40:14):
that they're going to be able to do it. There's
just they're going to change things either this coming year
or the next year when it goes to fourteen teams,
and they're just going to be unforeseen circumstances because it's
an impossible job. Obviously, but this is where we are
now as a sport where so much is changing and
the schedule is so crazy that the ability to navigate
(40:36):
like Ohio State did, and people are going to quickly
point out like, hey, they spent twenty million dollars, that
smooths over everything, And I think I agree with our
friend Roger Sherman, were like, that's kind of a deal.
Twenty million dollars for a championship winning roster. I think
he compared it to what like the fifth best NBA
player on an average team is making, and you can
win a college football national championship and a billion dollar
(40:58):
industry kind of a deal. So yes, of course money
smooths a turbulent sport over quite nicely. But to be
able to weather players leaving, players coming in, new teams
coming into your conference, and everybody trying to figure out
how to best position themselves for success both during the
(41:21):
regular season and an expanded postseason, I think it's kind
of obvious that you have to tip your cap to
both Notre Dame and to a further extent, obviously Ohio
State within a conference and dealing with what they've dealt
with behind the scenes emotionally with the Michigan stuff that
like they were built for it somehow, some way. They
(41:41):
weren't built to beat Michigan, but they were built to
win a national championship, which is wild to think about,
but like the fortitude that that kind of thing takes.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
It's a good, super impressive. Yeah, it's an impressive season.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I think the way that they bounce back from that
Michigan loss is a credit to Ryan Day. Honestly, it
would have been easy for this team to fall apart.
I listened to some of the postgame commentary from Quinn
Shawn Judkins. Yes it's Judkins, not Junkins. The way that
Kirk curb Street was it different into it. He just
kept going, he just kept going, the Junkins, Junkins, Junkins.
(42:15):
I looked on the pronunciation guy to make sure I
wasn't crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's Judkins, it is Judkins. Of course.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
I listened to him talk. I listened to Will Howard talk.
Everybody talks about the brotherhood that these guys have had
and how they wanted to win this one.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
For Ryan Day, so kudos to him. I feel happy
for him.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I know he was definitely feeling the heat after that
Michigan loss, and that's been a few years running, so
for him to kind of bounce back in this capacity,
he has been pretty cool and definitely been a good story.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Also, I wish I wish for all of the college
football brotherhoods to have the ability to add Jeremiah Smith
and Caleb Down that's your roster. Yes, that helps absolutely.
I wish that all of your rosters and all of
the tightly knit locker rooms are also able to add
generational safeties and receivers to to really give you that
(43:01):
extra boost. And I don't say that in a mocking
tot like that's just helpful. It's very helpful for a roster.
Oh my god, speaking of tightly knit.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes, if I could offer this personal anecdote ready, we
talked about on I guess it was our last show.
The credentials didn't work out for us this time around.
We wanted to go to the game. In hindsight, I'm
glad I didn't because I probably would have been a
nervous wreck. Having to be quiet in the sterile press
box might not have been the best setting for me
(43:33):
in this game.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
So when you look at the news organizations, the very
serious and rigorous news organizations covering this game. Casinos obviously,
sure you tip your cap, right ty I Harbor no
ill will okay, Fan Duel's your draft kings continue.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Where I'm going with this is I am I wish
it would have been a different outcome, as I am
Johnny my Notre Dame gear, But I am great that
for the first time in what feels like forever, it's
been over two years since I got to watch a
big Notre Dame game with mom age.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Oh, that's true.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
We used to watch all these games together. And you know,
our schedule is pretty grueling during the season. We're recording
late at night and it makes it almost impossible to
watch some of these big ones a half hour away
from here. So in this event, we didn't do the
watch along stream, we didn't do any of the antics
that we've been doing throughout the course of the playoff.
(44:29):
You were kind enough to kind of give me the
night off from that, and you know, it kind of
allowed me to go up there and watch a game
with her. So I wish it would have been different,
but it was cool to kind of do that again
because truly we used to watch all of them together.
There were definitely numerous f bombs thrown at the television
(44:49):
and from you too, and for me it gets grueling.
It does get grueling.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
But sure we.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Had an intense watch watch session and it was it
was to be able to kind of renew that.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
So and she held up, okay, we have like a
proof of like.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
And I was a little bit worried because after you
and I did the Twitter space that we did, I
was in my old bedroom and I came out and
Mamma Age was sound asleep in her chair and I
was trying to wake her because it was kickoff, and
I for a moment I was afraid she was dead.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
She just was not budging at all.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
And I think the thought comes to mind, like the
game didn't even start yet. I understand after the game,
but before the game, I mean, you got to make
it through it.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Then she woke up. We're all good.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
But alas, I was glad I had that experience.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
I hope everybody out there got to watch it with
a close friend or somebody you care about, because it
makes the whole thing a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Better not to get too deep with this.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So no, I watched it and got to do a
press conference for a six year old got to answer
about seventy seven hundred questions in that for only the
first half. It was bedtime at halftime. But it was
just like, so, Oregon's the number one because they were
one going into the playoff. I was like, yeah, but
(46:12):
not anymore because whoever wins this game is going to
be number one. And I was like, but Oregon beat
Ohio State And I was like, I don't. I don't
have the emotional energy to go through this live. Yeah,
But at the same time, I was happy I got
to watch it with him answering a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
It was like the name Price came up and he
was like price of what. I was like, okay, you
got time for bed, time for bed. Yeah, it's time
for bed. Let's get you some dessert. But yes, it was.
It was a fun watch and I'm glad. I'm glad
you got to share.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
That was cool, age. I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
I'm thankful for everybody out there who took this ride
with us this season.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It was a crazy year.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Man. It was a wide open season. We had a
ton of fun covering it. It's certainly a lot in
the throes of the season, when he got upsets, when
he got.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
All these games go gone concurrently.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
But yeah, I just want to thank ARV ballerhood that
has continued to support us, that has grown with us
here over the last six months or so. It's been
definitely a great ride for us. Thank you to everybody
behind the scenes who helps us keep things afloat. Whether
it's reverbs, whether it's our discord server, whether it's things
on the business end or cutting videos or you name
(47:21):
it. It takes a bit of a village here to make
sure that everything stays afloat, So we're really grateful for
that as well. We will be with you throughout the
course of the off season. We will certainly tweak the
schedule here and there, try to give the Vocal Cords
a little bit of a chance to recuperate. But alas
congratulations to the Ohio State Buckeyes. The Ohio State Buckeyes
(47:43):
finishes your national champion thirty four to twenty three with
the mark of fourteen and two, and per our friend
Brett McMurphy, they are now the favorite to win in
the twenty twenty five season with five to one odds.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
What do they give me the odds for next year.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Is what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Ohio State is your favorite at five to one to
be the national champion next season. George Bulldogs at six
to one, Your Oregon Ducks six and a half to one,
Sure Texas at seven to one, Penn State at nine
to one, Alabama at twelve, Notre Dame at seventeen to one,
(48:23):
and then just to round things out, Clemson at twenty
lsu Ole, Miss and Tennessee at twenty five A and
m at thirty, Michigan at forty.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Not a horrible bet, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
No, Auburn in Miami at fifty to one, South Carolina
and USC at sixty, Florida at eighty, Nebraska and Oklahoma
at one hundred.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
We get to do this whole thing over again. My friend.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Could be what Jim Knowles at Oklahoma next year. That
was the rumor going.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Into the game, Smitch rumors man.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Could be Al Golden with the Cincinnati Bengals. Could be
Mike Mickens taking over defense. There's a lot going on, man,
there's a lot. We'll have plenty of time to dissect
all of this and much much more.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
By the way, just on the topic of twenty twenty five,
Ohio State opens with Texas. Yes, they open with Texas Saturday,
August thirtieth. They're on the road at Washington. Could be
a little bit dicey. We'll see that. Illinois returns a
ton and they're on the road in Champagne. At Wisconsin
we'll see and at Michigan of course, to conclude their season.
(49:24):
Notre Dame opens the year at Miami, so that'll be
a carson Beck, hopefully healthy carson Beck Miami, they host
Texas A and m at home. They have Boise State
at Arkansas. They're not playing Boise State at Arkansas. Obviously
the Boise State. They travel to Arkansas the week before that.
USC is in South Bend. Back half of the schedule
seems to open up a little bit, but they are
(49:45):
at pitt and at Boston College. So an interesting first
half of the season. Oh yeah, for Notre Dame next
year at Miami, Texas A, and m at Boise USC.
It'll be a quarterback. Should be fun. We'll see on Notre Dame.
And I guess at this point what was the old
campaigning on trains the Whistlestop tour. Jody and I we'll
(50:10):
be doing an Oregon Michigan what it's like to be
at beat Ohio State tour. So look for us across
this great land and a unique marriage of beating the
national champion and not really mattering at all. In fact,
one of us got absolutely destroyed in a game against
the national championship recently, but no fun. Year should be
(50:33):
an incredible, incredible experience moving forward to see where the
hell this sport is going. Why don't we leave it
there again?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
We thank you all so much for your ongoing support.
Please check us out at verballers dot com. If you
made it this far, hit follow or subscribe. We will
continue reminding you to do that. If you've already done so,
please do us a favor and tell your friends as well.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
We're always trying to grow the forballer hood. We will
be back soon.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Make sure you stay tuned to those audio feeds, those
social feeds so that you're fully up to date with
what our schedule looks like moving forward. In the meantime, though,
Ohio State thirty four Notre Dame twenty three. Ohio State
is your national champions. The first national champion in the
(51:22):
expanded twelve team Playoff Era.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
One of two years of the twelve team playoff era.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, for that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein,
for myself, Tie Hildebrand. Thank you all so very very much.
We'll talk to y'all soon. Stay solid, Peace,
Welcome to the solid verbal hull.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty. I've heard
so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
You want to be happy for dake Edo State? Is
that woo woo?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And no them and tie, Dan Rubinstein, we have a
new national champion. Congratulations to the Ohio State Buckeyes. Thirty
four to twenty three is your final? Yes, they beat
the Notre Dame fighting irish. We will talk about this
game every angle that we jotted down on our legal pads,
(00:38):
and much much more over the next forty five minutes
to an.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hour or so.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good sir, welcome back here on the final evening of
the season, the last game, as.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The Buckeyes emerged victorious. My friend, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It doesn't matter how I am, ty, People are not
tuning in to hear what a sad Oregon human has
to say about Ohio State Notre Dame. They're here to
hear you, and people love you, people cherish you, people
worship you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Right, stop licking the boots.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's okay, it's all right, we're gonna make it okay.
Here here's how I am. I was worried we wouldn't
have a good game, and then it turns out for
a stretch it seemed like we were going to have
a good game, that there was momentum that even though
a first half gave us, you know, an interesting start,
(01:30):
and then a wave of the other team starting out
and it seemed like we were heading to a dark
place for the Notre Dame half of this universe and
an incredible tidal wave of joy for the Ohio State
side of this universe. That we actually had two fan
bases that were probably nervous at a very specific time
(01:53):
in the middle of the fourth quarter of this game, which, again,
as somebody who know nobody in this fight for me,
was pretty happy that we had that the spirit of
competition late.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I think that tracks. Yeah, I think that absolutely tracks. Look,
this was a game that started off with a long
nine minute and forty five second drive and eighteen plays
seventy five yard drive with Notre Dame grinding away at
that first quarter clock. Riley Leonard eventually punches it into
put Notre Dame up seven zip. You're thinking, all right,
(02:27):
Notre Dame's found a way to control the clock. This
is the style of game that we talked about in
our preview. How did that play defense against Ohio State?
You want to try and keep the offense off the
field as best you can. Well, then Notre Dame stalls
out in the next couple drive.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Before that, before that, before that, what happened to Riley
Leonard after that first nine almost ten minute drive in
which it was I don't even know, it was Riley
left and righty right, it was Riley straight ahead, Riley gap.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It was also Riley running to the sidelines and puking
after that drive because.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Not ideal in home and is large that you have
run your quarterback. I mean, I'm sure he was very
enthusiastic about it, but into the ground to the point
even with that seven nothing lead, where some sort of
mix of hits and adrenaline and nerves and the sweet
sweet cocktail that is life, he's puking up his guts
(03:18):
on the sidelines, as per I think Holly Row reported that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And then second quarter that's when Ohio State started to
get its act together. Touchdowns on I believe four consecutive
drives that put them up twenty eight to seven at
the start of the third quarter, eventually thirty one to
seven about midway through the third quarter. That's when Notre
Dames started to chip away. They got two really nice
(03:45):
Jaden Greathhouse plays, one on a run from him as
he broke a tackle, spun out of it, and then
ran for a thirty four yard touchdown pass. Then a
second one a beautiful drop in the bucket from Riley
Leonard with about four minutes and fifteen seconds left in
the fourth quarter. Notre Dame had a chance at this
one late third and long. Just so happens, Will Howard
(04:06):
spots up Jeremiah Smith, who was you know, relatively held
in check for a good chunk of this game, but
he is manned up one on one with Christian Gray.
He burns Christian Gray deep Will Howard a nice throw.
That's pretty much what put this one on ice for
the Buckeyes again. They win thirty four to twenty three.
Why don't we start here, Dan, and why don't I
(04:27):
start with you? Since I clearly am a biased third
party in this matter, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I feel like you are still buffering right, you are
still collecting your thoughts and your emotions and your takes
for the game, for the season, for the Notre Dame
side of things, for macro and micro decisions. You're you're
still in it, TI.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I don't want you to handle me with kid gloves,
all right, No, but I'm through this like the men
that we are. Okay, Well, sometimes sometimes I am processing
good real time. This is why I want to start
with you with a okay. Ohio State went out. They
did what they have been doing throughout this tournament, which
(05:08):
is a fast start, which is scorgan their first drive,
which is basically putting teams in this impossible riddle, which is, well,
if you want to play the pass a little bit
too much, we'll run it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
If you want to play the run a little bit
too much, then we're going to pass it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
If you find a way to contain both, then Will
Howard is going to do a little bit more with
his legs. We saw a lot more of that from
him this game against Notre Dame. It worked to great effect.
I guess, looking at the Ohio State side of things
as compared to what you thought coming in when we
did our preview episode last week, any surprises, any big takeaways,
what comes to mind first when you think of the
(05:44):
performance we saw from Ohio State tonight.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's just variety, variety from Ohio State. And even though
you know it wasn't a dominant rushing performance, but Ohio
State opened up the second half of the seventy yard
run from Quinn Shawn Judkins, and the numbers won't sparkle
and flash, but he was incredible, running tough in the
red zone right that they were timely on the ground
(06:08):
that it wasn't Jeremiah Smith highlight catch after highlight catch
like it was against Oregon or Tennessee relatively early on,
but obviously the threat of that was something that Notre
Dame was contending with. And whether it was Carnel Tait
or Brandon Ennis or g Scott once or twice, definitely
a meccha Abuca had at least a couple of drives
where he was the guy for Ohio State, not just
(06:30):
the receiver, but he was the guy that things were
opening up for him downfield or even in the intermediate
or shorter space that he was able to turn into
a little bit more that it was the variety. It
was Will Howard with his legs in timely moments. It
was just very apparent that Ohio State's plan and confidence
was it was just ahead of where Notre Dame was.
(06:53):
I really liked what Notre Dame came out and did
where they're just like, you know what, we need to
limit possessions here, we need to third and shorts and
it's very difficult to bring Riley Leonard down and so
we are going to try to dictate the the rhythms
of this game. It's not a strategy that is going
to hold up against this kind of Ohio State team
(07:14):
for four quarters. But if you're going to shorten the
game and turn that nine minute drive into six, that's
a win right off the bat, that's a win. So
in terms of where Ohio State was, they weren't perfect.
They obviously made mistakes in the secondary in this game,
particularly in the second half with a couple holdings and
pis the pass rush obviously the defensive line for Ohio State,
(07:34):
especially JTT. I think he got a sack, but he
was hobbled and went down in the second half, but
came back pretty quickly. Notre Dame just I don't know
if the moment was too big for the Irish early,
but at no point, and I don't know if it
was because of the size of the Rose Bowl and
the size of the Cotton Bowl, for Ohio State, they
(07:54):
just seemed that emotionally and x's and o's wise and
the ability to adjust, they were ready quicker and Notre
Dame got there in the second half that they knew
that they had to throw, but Notre Dame didn't seem
prepared to have a game plan for Jeremiah Love, especially
either through the air or on the ground, whereas there
(08:16):
was something very telling about Ohio State's plan for each
individual player. And even when Ohio State was sort of
going more conservative and trying to sit on a lead
laid and giving the ball back pretty quickly, and even
when they gave they coughed up. I think it was
a mecha Buka who coughed up the fumble on the reverse.
It was a long play, it was a long successful
play for Ohio State before that fumble, it wasn't a
(08:37):
stuffed run and the ball got stripped. And so Ohio
State had such a great plan for an excellent Notre
Dame defense that was basically, let's keep them on their toes,
keeping it to the outside of the field with this receiver,
these receivers, and Will Howard was just pinpoint what here's
supposed to do when a guy starts out fourteen to
fifteen against a great defense.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, Howard was really good. He had time to throw.
In my view, he was the player of the offense
for this Ohio State team. His ability to make some
hay on the ground before that long run by Quinn
Shawn Judkins. I guess if you take that seventy yard
(09:20):
out of the equation, Will Howard would have been the
team's leading rusher. He had sixteen carries for fifty seven yards.
He was sensational through the air. What was striking to
me actually for large chunks of this game, maybe not
so much in the first half, but definitely down the stretch.
Ohio State almost reverted to a Notre Dame style of
offense in this one, where they were using a lot
(09:42):
of Will Howard, where they were focusing a little bit
more on misdirection and trying to do some ground and
pound stuff. I mean, the pass was there, for sure,
it was there, clearly Will Howard had a lot of
success through the air. But there were definitely chunks of
this one, especially later on, where it felt like I
was watching a little bit of what I saw this
season from Notre Dame and they were using that to
(10:05):
just maintain possession, to wind the clock, to avoid mistakes,
that sort of thing, and it worked.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
They were able to hold on.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
The Other thing that jumped out to me, I think
in the Ohio State side was really the interesting chess
match that we saw early. They talked about it a
little bit on the broadcast, and I know we gave
specific mention of Notre Dame's man defense in our preview.
We've really been talking about it all season long, certainly
in this playoff, But the ability for Ohio State to
(10:36):
diagnose what Notre Dame was doing. I think it was
Herbie on the broadcast who said that they were mixing
things up. Even Ryan Day said it at halftime. They
were mixing things up. They were playing man and they
were playing zone. They were playing man, they were playing zone.
They were mixing it up a lot more than they
would normally, breaking a huge tendency of theirs, which was
playing a lot of cover one, a lot of man
across the board with the roaming safety. They were very
(10:59):
much following that Texas playbook at least to the extent
that Notre Dame could, which was playing a little bit
more zone, trying to keep receivers in front of you
try to avoid getting burnt by the deep pass. For
a good chunk of this game, they did that. They
didn't do it on a big third down late, which
essentially sealed the deal. That one went to Jeremiah Smith
for fifty six yards whatever it was to get them
(11:20):
down near the goal line. But I thought Notre Dame
had a pretty good game plan, at least in theory
for trying to mix things up and prevent against that
big passing play. But Ohio State, to your point, had
a really good game plan to try and answer, which.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Was we're going to run the ball.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
If you leave an edge unguarded, we're going to let
Will Howard run it. It's really just the riddle that
we have been talking about with Ohio State that I
mentioned at the top. Here, you do one thing, you
over commit to one thing, they have two other ways
that they can beat you. And frankly, there weren't a
whole lot of defenses. There were no defenses throughout this tournament.
Probably not many in college football that can handle that,
(11:58):
especially when they are playing this effectively, this productively.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
They didn't get to this point until after that Michigan
game and at that point. They found this next year
and they just cruised through the competition.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, there was just nothing for Notre Dame on the
ground in this one. I talked about figuring out ways
to get Jeremiah Love involved, and what did you end
up with like four carries for three yards in this game.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, I mean, this is very much a Notre Dame
team that was not built for this moment. And by
this moment, I don't This is not me saying that
they weren't built to be in a national championship game.
They weren't built to play against a team like an
Ohio State. They weren't built to be down this much
this soon to have to turn it over to Riley
Leonard to start throwing. Now, obviously Riley had some success
(12:47):
later on in this game. It was too little, too late,
but they were able to make some big plays down
the field. They were able to find some of those
chunk plays that we talked about in our preview. Albeit
for not They end up losing by eleven, But at
least in the early going, it did seem like it
took him a little bit to try and figure out,
all right, what is the new game plan here?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Another thing they mentioned on the broadcast.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I think it was Chris Fowler talking about how he
was mystified by how little they were using Jeremiah Love.
And it wasn't even like they were using him in
the passing game. He was open, by the way on
that series where they ended up kicking a field goal,
puzzlingly so, trying to kick the field goal to make
it a two score. Yeah, I don't know what that was,
miss Jeter. Doinks it Jeremiah Love opening the flat for
(13:31):
what looked to be a walk in touchdown. He missed
him on that one, Riley did. But other than that,
Jeremiah Love was relatively quiet in this one because they
were down so much so soon that they could not
rely on their running game, you know, to to really
even all their way back into this thing. It was
it was too big of a mountain to climb, even
(13:52):
for the running game.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I was really impressed by the way on that same
token that Ohio State came out. I think it was
quinch On Judkins lined up out why early on, well
here's a quick eight, right, here's a quick seven or
eight that Jeremiah Love wasn't used like that, or Jadarium
Price wasn't used like that, like here's something easy because
Riley Leonard if nothing else, especially after that first drive,
I don't know if he was emotionally gassed. I don't
(14:13):
know if he was physically gassed. I suppose. You know,
he's a national championship caliber quarterback. He is in shape,
he is ready to roll. He has beaten good teams.
But those next two drives that they just seem so off,
and he seemed skittish throwing the ball. He was almost
trying to guide the ball instead of just throwing easy
crossers and screens that he was missing, wasn't reading well.
(14:34):
He was being protected pretty well, I thought, and he
was just late processing, late to guys. And it didn't
seem like there were a ton of backbreaking penalties for
Notre Dame or for either one of these teams. Obviously
there wasn't backbreaking even with those defensive holding and they
had the big one.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
On rj Obin the roughing the passer, but.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
That was a fumble drive. That was the same drive
as the FuMB I believe.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But it was, you know, I mean, there were a
couple penalties early in their first three drives. Their second
drive in particular, where they had two penalties that set
him back put them off schedule. I think there was
a penalty on the ensuing drive as well. It was
not a game beyond that though that was crippling in
terms of the fouls, right, I mean, they were able to,
(15:20):
I think, maintain some degree of discipline and it was
really just this riddle again of trying to solve what
Ohio State was doing and not so much beating themselves,
at least not with penalties. Now, there were passes in
this game that, especially early that Riley Leonard miss I
also talked about the one later with Jeremiah Love where
it seemed as if that could have been a score. Yep,
(15:42):
didn't work out. Riley I think came to his senses
later in this one. Early he was pretty jazzed up
and probably took a while to recuperate after that opening drive.
He definitely got it together later was able to move
the ball down the field. Jaden Greathhouse had another great game.
He did extra Notre Dame six for one to twenty eight,
(16:02):
two touchdowns, a great catch, a great run, I mean,
really making a name for himself over these last two games.
But at least before that, there were definite moments where
you wondered if the passing game was ever going to
get itself on track, because it was it just didn't
seem like he was comfortable he wanted to run it.
But when he wanted to run it, when it wasn't
a designed run, Ohio State was there. When he wanted
(16:24):
to look down the field, he had guys open in
some cases where he was just missing the throws to
Chris Mitchell and whatnot. So there are definitely going to
be some things on tape that they look at and
they wish they had back. I don't know if any
of those things necessarily put them over the hump here
because they still think Ohio State was the better team.
But there were a couple of those that if you're
a Notre Dame fan, certainly if you're a Notre Dame player,
(16:46):
you're going to go back and say, Aha, that that's
one we'd like to have back.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, especially early on. You know, obviously Ohio State's coming
out and their first I'm not going to play divorceac
but it was touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, field goal. They
were up twenty one to seven a half time. Obviously
they killed it. With the middle eight. I thought the
Notre Dame defense, all things considered, yeah, like the corners. Look,
Christian Gray got burned in the biggest moment of the game.
(17:11):
He did, and he got burned by a player who's
going to burn every corner these next two years before.
I mean, he should be in the NFL next year,
but he's got two more years of eligibility before he
can be in Jeremiah Smith. They weren't being muscled out
for fifty to fifty balls. They weren't being mossed. This
wasn't a Notre Dame team with like a killer edge
(17:33):
rusher or anything all year long. I think it was
a Josh Burnham who had a couple sacks.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, Josh Burnham had the two sacks. And look, this
is a defensive line that's been pretty nicked up. It
really hurt losing Riley Mills when they did back in
the playoff, right, I mean, that was a big time
blow because he led their team in sacks. He was
a huge presence in the middle, not just a run stopper,
but obviously somebody who could be disruptive in the passing game.
(17:58):
Is well, you lose a guy like that, they had
able bodied replacements step in and I think do a
pretty good job, but it just changed the dynamics so
much of what you can do up front.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It's also so with those touchdowns. Part of that is
also Notre Dame's offense in terms of complimentary football on
the field for a minute and change those second and
third drives. I think they netted negative four yards on
those second and third drives and that just puts your
own defense in a tough position. You're going to get
(18:27):
more tired legs. And I just I thought Ohio State
was just more on time. They didn't crush Notre Dame
up front, they were just more on time. This is
when an inbreaking route is supposed to be open, Will
Howard's throwing it on time. He's confident that whoever it is,
Carnel Tait or a Mecca Buca is going to be
there when he's supposed to be there. And yet once again,
this wasn't Notre Dame guys being torched. For the most part,
(18:50):
Notre Dame was setting the edge. Ohio State was just
they have really strong players who were well developed and
had a great game plan and were better. There was
something that like you could feel like the weight almost
coming off of Riley Leonard's shoulders once they were down,
like they were yeah, when he was like, you know,
let's just throw it own the ball downfield to Mitchell
(19:10):
Evans and Jaden Greathhouse and let's see what they can
do up the sideline. The middle of the field seemed
to be more successful. I think Mitchell Evans had a
thirty three yard catch that was shedding a couple tackles,
faked a guy out and was super impressive. You know
it was it came down to moments and whether it
was those third downs that Will Howard was able to
(19:30):
pick up with his legs. The fake punt, it was
a good call and it was well executed until a drop.
It was a good enough pass to keep that drive goal.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It should have just run a normal play if they
were going to do that. But fair point, fairpoint, I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I outside of that weird field goal decision by Marcus
Freeman light which just to reiterate, it was a two
possession game, they were down sixteen points. They decide It
seemed like it was a hurried decision. It didn't seem
like anybody was thinking this thing through. But they're down sixteen,
(20:05):
they elect that they're going to send the field goal
unit out there to kick the field goal, and I
guess keep it as a two score game.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You need two touchdowns, You need just two touchdowns to
take the lead, tie whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
So it was. It was a strange decision. Mich Jeter
ends up jinking it off the left upright. It didn't
go over three points, but you know, to your point
on the third down efficiency for Ohio State, this was
I think an emerging storyline early nine of twelve on
third down for the buck guys. At one point they
were six for six. It just felt like the Notre
Dame defense could not get off the field. It wasn't
(20:39):
until I think a little bit later on in this game,
when Al Golden started to dial up some pressure started
to try and make will Howard be a bit uncomfortable.
Up until that point, they had done it sparingly. It
seemed as if they felt they could play some coverage
against this Ohio State passing attack. It didn't really work
that well well. Howard was able to pick his spot
(21:00):
once they made him a little bit more uncomfortable. Once
they were I think finding their way a bit more
with the running game are guarding against the running game,
I should say it. It seemed like things balanced out
a little bit at that point, but it still remained
this huge puzzle to solve because again, you've got this
three headed monster. How do you stop all three? Will
Howard the rushing game as well as the passing game.
(21:23):
So I think Notre Dame did about as well as
it could once it had a chance to settle in late.
Clearly they were able to hold Ohio State. You know,
in the dying moments of this game within striking distance.
There was the big pass play to Jeremiah Smith when
they burnt Christian Gray. But the Notre Dame defense put
itself in a position to make some plays to give
(21:44):
the offense an opportunity to score some points.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It just wasn't enough in the end.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Ohio State with four hundred and forty five total yards
in this one, they outgained Notre Dame by about one
hundred and fifty yards. So it's four to forty five
to three oh eight, give or take Notre Dame with
more pass yards. Obviously they had a throw for the
majority of the second half. Clearly Ohio State with a
lot more on the ground. Two fourteen to fifty three.
(22:09):
In my view, that was sort of the difference, right,
Their effectiveness on the ground, interestingly enough, not a unit
that we look at and say that's a great rushing team, right,
Still don't think they're a great rushing team, Dan, but
they have guys who stepped up, won the moments. Quinn
Shawn Judkins a big run, some tough runs in the
(22:30):
red zone, Trey Henderson showing his burst, Will Howard showing
a little bit more on the ground than we've seen
this season. This has been a story, I think throughout
the playoff as well. Not a team we've associated this
year with having an electric round attack, but.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Should be noted left tackle goes down during the Oregon game,
first round left tackle and Josh Saimillie Seth McLaughlin before
McLaughlin before the penn'sun Absolutely, I believe absolutely everybody's beat
up at this point. But that does affect things, of
course does affect things.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But they were more than good enough to use that
running game to their advantage here.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, No, I think that's right. It was. It was
a fascinating back and forth in that first half, and
I'm I think it was the first touchdown, just in
terms of pure play design that it was Jeremiah Smith
lined up one on one with Christian Gray. I believe
at the at the top of our TV screen.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I did not like the Gray versus Smith matchup. There
was a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Really.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I don't know how big Gray is. I know Leonard
Moore is a bigger Yeah, he's also a freshman six
twoish or something, right.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I really would have preferred it be Leonard Moore, And
we did see a little bit of that early. It
ended up being Christian Gray in some of the key moments,
and it was clear that whether Gray was on Abuca,
whether he was on Jeremiah Smith, he was the guy
that they were going after.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
He was a guy that they were going after.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
That on that first touch I was just gonna mention
the play design was great. It was when you saw
the reverse angle, Christian Gray was like, something is up.
I should have helped something is up. I should have
help ye And it was a fake reverse swing pass
to Jeremiah Smith and was just had nobody near him.
It was a great play design, it was great execution.
And Ohio State also left was it Carnel Tait who
(24:12):
had the sort of slang go the slugo that he
was overthrown for. I don't know if that was Gray
or Leonard Moore on that one, but you know, good
play design, good execution there. And so I just will
Howard was just not off at all in this game.
And you know, there's no a formula for beating this
version of Ohio State. Doesn't matter anymore. The season's done,
(24:34):
this team is done. But I do wonder what Notre
Dame with Riley Mills healthy, Howard cross whatever, because that's
that's literally it. You have to have an overwhelming defensive
line to have a chance against this version of Ohio
State and Notre Dame. I don't you know, I don't
(24:54):
know what they look like in Week seven when everybody
was healthy with Riley Mills and everything been.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Healthy all year.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I really haven't been healthy all year, right, I mean
they lost Jordan Betello very early on in this one. Yeah,
you know, they've been licking their wounds since almost the
preseason if you want to go back to some of
their injuries along the offensive line. So this has been,
as I said in the last episode, kind of the
story of the year for this team. Outside of that,
NIU loss in Week two. It's been dealing with injuries
(25:21):
and rebounding from them as they continue to pile on.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
By the way, I don't know, he may have had
a penalty jag you saw at left tackle right Riley
Leonard was like when he would take his drops and
step into the pocket, if he were throwing on time
and in rhythm. He was kept pretty clean. This wasn't
a Notre Dame offensive line that was taken advantage of
(25:46):
by I know, going into the game, you were worried
about Tyler Williams. Yeah, this wasn't a collapsing pocket. Consistently,
this wasn't. I mean, obviously, the Ohio State front did
a great job against Notre Dame on the ground, but
in in terms of pushing this offensive line around in
the passing game, especially in the second half, Notre Dame's
(26:06):
offensive line patchworck as it was kind of held up fine.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I thought it held up fine, and I thought they
held up fine given the deficit that they had to
try and crawl out of. This has been one of
the characteristics of this team that we have seen on
display a couple times through the playoff, sparingly throughout the year,
where they face a little bit of adversity.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And they find ways to win moments.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And with them being down twenty four points relatively late
in this game, there was no give up in this
team at all.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
There was no give up.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
They weren't punting in weird fourth down situations, correct, They
were leaving it all out there on the field. And
I thought Riley Leonard rose to the moment. I thought,
Jayden Greathhouse. You mentioned Mitchell Evans. I thought as a collective,
they were very good at trying to keep themselves in
this football and they didn't win. I think the better
team won definitely, but I do think Notre Dame deserves
(27:07):
some credit for fighting this one tooth and nail to
the very bitter end. I think it's falls number one loser,
Notre Dame number one loser. There, yeah, the runner up.
I think it says a lot about this coaching staff,
and I think it's in a sense emblematic of the
season because after that NIU loss, it would have been
easy for many of the guys in this team to
(27:30):
give up, to give up the vision of maybe making
a tournament like this, or even making it this deeply
in the tournament. The fact that they made it here
at all really is a pretty good story for them
and something that they can build on.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think Notre Dame will be fine.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
They do lose a fair amount next season, but we'll
deal with that in due course.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Dan.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
I give Marcus Freeman, the staff, the players a lot
of credit for the way they were able to hang
with Ohio State in this one down the stretch when
it felt like things could be out of hand. Last though,
I think the better team wins, the better team wins
again thirty four to twenty three. At least we've got
a relatively good game out of it.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
It felt decent. Near the end, there was a long
stretch where I imagine Ohio State fans felt like things
were just coaston and Notre Dame fans were in their
feelings about how the rhythms went.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Both teams finished fourteen and two sixteen games apiece from
both of these schools, which is a lot that's more
than we're used to. I think it's pretty clear where
Marcus Freeman is at now. Marcus Freeman in year three,
making the National Championship, recruiting well, seemingly has a lot
(28:46):
of forward momentum with this program, going to have a
new quarterback, going to have a bunch of new faces
next year. But there aren't a whole lot of people
who covered the sport as closely as you and I
around the country that think Noted is anything other than
a top ten team going into next season. They appear
to have a lot in place for a sustained run
(29:07):
at this playoff, maybe more cracks at a national championship.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
The same is definitely true for Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I was like, should we talk about the winning team
and the narrative surrounding the Buckeyes.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, that is where I am going with this, because
that I think is the more interesting angle. Ohio State
loses to Michigan.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
First off, they lose to your Oregon Ducks on the
road by one point?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Is that so okay?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Then say what you want about the NIU loss back
in week two for Notre Dame. The most inexplicable upset
from my vantage point all season was Ohio State with
thirteen weeks to prepare, with thirteen weeks of tape, knowing
exactly what this Michigan team was, only scoring ten points
and losing that rivalry. I don't know how that happened.
(29:55):
I don't know what the game plan was. That to
me is the most confusing thing I saw all season long,
full stop.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, clearly there is a lot attached to that game.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
There's a lot of weight that's been on the shoulders
of Ryan Day as a result of losing yet another
one to Michigan.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
For them to rebound, come back through the tournament, maul
everybody they played, and end up winning this tournament, that
is a redemption arc for Ryan Day, is it not?
As we did a show with ari Ari Wasserman, our
friend from on three from Andy and aar I remember
in the immediate aftermath of that Michigan game, and you
(30:34):
and I talked through there are clips out there, you
can go and find them on the social channels, talking
through what does this mean for ran? Where does Ohio
State go from here? It felt like almost just lost
and wayward and more soul searching. Ryan Day had talked
about how this was like roughly equivalent to losing family members.
(30:57):
I mean, it was a big deal for them to
lose this game and to struggle with Michigan. To now
come back and win this title, I think says a
lot about him. Obviously, It's the first page of the
bio for him. That to me, I think if we
take a step back as we talk about this now,
as we enter the offseason, is sort of where my
(31:18):
mind goes first, just that redemption arc for Day.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean, he has the opportunity to do the funniest
thing now and just leave the Ohio State job. And
I don't know if there are any open NFL jobs
at the time we're recording this, if like the Saints
or whoever is still open. No, he's not going to
leave Ohio State, at least not now, not for any
opportunities available as we can see them right now. An
incredible redemption arc for Ryan Day and Ohio State. And
(31:45):
you know, they put up the stats about the coaches
all time with the best winning percentage having coached a
minimum fifty games, Like, he's had an incredible run and
has also lost four straight games to Michigan. It's this
incredibly unique situation where he's so very clearly excellent and
(32:06):
one of the top coaches in this sport that are
currently coaching, that have coached recently. You can't really in
good faith argue otherwise unless you are very specifically an
Ohio State fan. Who has a lot of understandably so
emotion wrapped up in the Michigan rivalry. Again understandably. So
it's just wild to think about the unique nature of
(32:28):
both being excellent and losing four in a row to Arrival.
And that's college football. Obviously we have situations like this,
but it is wild to think about that Ohio State.
And this is one of the I would argue great
things about sports and sports that have longer seasons is
it allows teams to have seasons that are living, breathing
(32:49):
things that if you're an NBA team, you can lose
six games in a row and it's not the end
of the world because it's March and you have time
to figure things out and you're like, oh, this guy
was heard. Oh we were in our head about this.
Oh we the shooting went cold or our hitting went cold.
For a baseball team, that it is a good thing
for a team to have a down stretch and figure
(33:11):
it out and dig their way out of it. That's
a good thing. We've just never had that in this sports.
We've just never had an organized postseason that allows for
that kind of breathing room. And so in the last
decade since Ohio State last won a national championship against
(33:32):
America's team, my big beautiful Oregon Ducks in the twenty
fourteen season, which I think they also they lost their
opener to Virginia Tech. I want to say that was
the year in which they lost that game, but to
have two losses if this were a literal year ago,
Ohio State's not in his conversation for being in nor
is notre names of the post.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Either team in last year's setup right would be in
the tournament, and Notre Dame at least is closer to it.
But yes, they would have had an egregious loss when
you started comparing resumes and not crazy impressive wins as
much as Texas A and M at least had a
moment kind of two thirds of the way into the
ear before fading. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
We would have had, you know, Georgia and Texas and
Penn State and Oregon or some commonate who knows what
exactly the fourteen playoff looks like, because that's not the
reality in which we live. It's just wild to think
about that we have this playoff for a few different reasons.
I guess right, it's more access to teams, but it's
also going to advantage teams that are built like and
(34:32):
have seasons like Ohio State, that have the depth to
bounce back, have the wherewithal to bounce back, have the
coaching quality, the coordinators, the assistants to diagnose and bounce
back and to fulfill their potential. Even though in the
last one hundred and fifty years, if you lose the
(34:53):
way that they lost to Michigan and are not playing
for a conference championship, which is of course a new
part of this sport relatively speaking, that Ohio State's not
in this position to prove that at least at their best,
they're better than everybody, because this would have been a
team in some sort of second tier bowl game and
(35:13):
they would have blown somebody out, maybe depending on who
does or does not opt out, and we could have
had that conversation, I guess, like we did with the
Ohio State team that lost to Michigan State team and
Zeke is you know, sick and not getting carries and
urban Meyer like that was a similar situation. But this
new system Afford's breathing room, which we want the best
(35:38):
team to win. How we define that moving forward is
going to be interesting. But two losses now is okay?
That is that is there is now a blueprint, and
I don't know how quickly we're going to change this tournament,
but we are in a world in which we allow
(35:58):
a do over, we allow a mullet again, and that's
just something we all have to make peace with because
Ohio State proved it on the field.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I want to keep the focus on Ohio State. I
want to keep the focus on Notre Dame since these
are the two teams that were in it. But I
will say, if we zoom out a second, we know
because we have seen the comments that have come into
us throughout the course of the year, in the year
leading up to this year, with respect to this new
(36:27):
twelve team format, it's different.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
It's different.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's very different from what a lot of us are
used to even for you and I. I mean, we
went like three weeks without knowing what day it was
because they're playing these games one days other than Saturday,
so our whole world is built around Saturdays for like
six months out of the year. I mean it it
threw us all for a loop. I do think in retrospect,
it was, if nothing more, very interesting. It added an
(36:55):
element of intrigue to the postseason. You may not like
the fact that a two loss team is crowned national
champion or even allowed into this tournament.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
That is your prerogative.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But Boise had to buy, Asu had to buy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, there are parts of this that I think we
all can point to and say that should be fixed,
That could be tweaked, that needs to be honed. Nothing
needs to be in its final perfect state the first
time through. Okay, and this definitely is no exception, But
(37:28):
I see the numbers for our show, and I can
tell you just based on the traction that we got
over the last month and a half, there was real
interest in this playoff.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
There was real it's your interest in this playoff.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You're one, of course you're one.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And we're going to take some time, i'm sure, this
offseason to go through and evaluate if and when there
was a drop off in terms of that fan interest,
where maybe they can make some twet to I guess,
improve the product for people, to make sure that the
most people are watching at least to keep it entertaining
for everybody who likes college football. But if nothing more,
(38:12):
the data that I have suggests that it was interesting,
and I tend to agree. Now, I wanted this from
the start, and maybe I'm again a biased third party here,
but I do think if nothing more, I know we
had some blowouts, I know it's not perfect, and I
know it still isn't for everybody, but definitely it did
make things interesting down the stretch, and for that I
(38:34):
am grateful because before this it was a lot of
Bowl games that frankly were exhibitions with a ton of
opt outs. We at least got to see what I
think was a pretty high level tournament. So that was
new and that was cool.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And we're still talking about a Bowl slate that mostly
had no pop tarts. There was a pop tart game,
there was a pop tart game, but mostly no pop tarts.
That's right, So that's something that probably need to be reconfigured.
We just need more tasty toaster. I don't even like
pop tarts. I don't know where are we going that
I like the concept of pop tarts. No, I think
(39:10):
you're right. No, it's it's wild to think about, just
because of the length of these schedules and how the
sport is calibrated with portal stuff, with nil stuff that
like the the Razor's edge at which both of these
teams operated. That we talked about this a little bit
(39:31):
on the preview that like, all right, what if Mike
Elcho was like, I don't want to go to College Station,
I'm gonna stick around, and Ryley Leonard's happy in Durham
And same goes for like what if Kansas State didn't
fully make it clear that they were ready to move
on to Avery Johnson and Will Howard's NFL draft grades
weren't as good as he had hoped, And like, there's
just there's so many moving parts with all of this,
(39:53):
and like or if Ohio State is in the Big
Ten Championship game because they don't lose that Michigan game,
And there's just there's so much that I think the
committee and the people behind the scenes of the College
Football Playoff have to figure out with how the postseason
is organized. It was year one. I have no faith
(40:14):
that they're going to be able to do it. There's
just they're going to change things either this coming year
or the next year when it goes to fourteen teams,
and they're just going to be unforeseen circumstances because it's
an impossible job. Obviously, but this is where we are
now as a sport where so much is changing and
the schedule is so crazy that the ability to navigate
(40:36):
like Ohio State did, and people are going to quickly
point out like, hey, they spent twenty million dollars, that
smooths over everything, And I think I agree with our
friend Roger Sherman, were like, that's kind of a deal.
Twenty million dollars for a championship winning roster. I think
he compared it to what like the fifth best NBA
player on an average team is making, and you can
win a college football national championship and a billion dollar
(40:58):
industry kind of a deal. So yes, of course money
smooths a turbulent sport over quite nicely. But to be
able to weather players leaving, players coming in, new teams
coming into your conference, and everybody trying to figure out
how to best position themselves for success both during the
(41:21):
regular season and an expanded postseason, I think it's kind
of obvious that you have to tip your cap to
both Notre Dame and to a further extent, obviously Ohio
State within a conference and dealing with what they've dealt
with behind the scenes emotionally with the Michigan stuff that
like they were built for it somehow, some way. They
(41:41):
weren't built to beat Michigan, but they were built to
win a national championship, which is wild to think about,
but like the fortitude that that kind of thing takes.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
It's a good, super impressive. Yeah, it's an impressive season.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I think the way that they bounce back from that
Michigan loss is a credit to Ryan Day. Honestly, it
would have been easy for this team to fall apart.
I listened to some of the postgame commentary from Quinn
Shawn Judkins. Yes it's Judkins, not Junkins. The way that
Kirk curb Street was it different into it. He just
kept going, he just kept going, the Junkins, Junkins, Junkins.
(42:15):
I looked on the pronunciation guy to make sure I
wasn't crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's Judkins, it is Judkins. Of course.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
I listened to him talk. I listened to Will Howard talk.
Everybody talks about the brotherhood that these guys have had
and how they wanted to win this one.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
For Ryan Day, so kudos to him. I feel happy
for him.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I know he was definitely feeling the heat after that
Michigan loss, and that's been a few years running, so
for him to kind of bounce back in this capacity,
he has been pretty cool and definitely been a good story.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Also, I wish I wish for all of the college
football brotherhoods to have the ability to add Jeremiah Smith
and Caleb Down that's your roster. Yes, that helps absolutely.
I wish that all of your rosters and all of
the tightly knit locker rooms are also able to add
generational safeties and receivers to to really give you that
(43:01):
extra boost. And I don't say that in a mocking
tot like that's just helpful. It's very helpful for a roster.
Oh my god, speaking of tightly knit.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes, if I could offer this personal anecdote ready, we
talked about on I guess it was our last show.
The credentials didn't work out for us this time around.
We wanted to go to the game. In hindsight, I'm
glad I didn't because I probably would have been a
nervous wreck. Having to be quiet in the sterile press
box might not have been the best setting for me
(43:33):
in this game.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
So when you look at the news organizations, the very
serious and rigorous news organizations covering this game. Casinos obviously,
sure you tip your cap, right ty I Harbor no
ill will okay, Fan Duel's your draft kings continue.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Where I'm going with this is I am I wish
it would have been a different outcome, as I am
Johnny my Notre Dame gear, But I am great that
for the first time in what feels like forever, it's
been over two years since I got to watch a
big Notre Dame game with mom age.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Oh, that's true.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
We used to watch all these games together. And you know,
our schedule is pretty grueling during the season. We're recording
late at night and it makes it almost impossible to
watch some of these big ones a half hour away
from here. So in this event, we didn't do the
watch along stream, we didn't do any of the antics
that we've been doing throughout the course of the playoff.
(44:29):
You were kind enough to kind of give me the
night off from that, and you know, it kind of
allowed me to go up there and watch a game
with her. So I wish it would have been different,
but it was cool to kind of do that again
because truly we used to watch all of them together.
There were definitely numerous f bombs thrown at the television
(44:49):
and from you too, and for me it gets grueling.
It does get grueling.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
But sure we.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Had an intense watch watch session and it was it
was to be able to kind of renew that.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
So and she held up, okay, we have like a
proof of like.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
And I was a little bit worried because after you
and I did the Twitter space that we did, I
was in my old bedroom and I came out and
Mamma Age was sound asleep in her chair and I
was trying to wake her because it was kickoff, and
I for a moment I was afraid she was dead.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
She just was not budging at all.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
And I think the thought comes to mind, like the
game didn't even start yet. I understand after the game,
but before the game, I mean, you got to make
it through it.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Then she woke up. We're all good.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
But alas, I was glad I had that experience.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
I hope everybody out there got to watch it with
a close friend or somebody you care about, because it
makes the whole thing a whole lot.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Better not to get too deep with this.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So no, I watched it and got to do a
press conference for a six year old got to answer
about seventy seven hundred questions in that for only the
first half. It was bedtime at halftime. But it was
just like, so, Oregon's the number one because they were
one going into the playoff. I was like, yeah, but
(46:12):
not anymore because whoever wins this game is going to
be number one. And I was like, but Oregon beat
Ohio State And I was like, I don't. I don't
have the emotional energy to go through this live. Yeah,
But at the same time, I was happy I got
to watch it with him answering a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
It was like the name Price came up and he
was like price of what. I was like, okay, you
got time for bed, time for bed. Yeah, it's time
for bed. Let's get you some dessert. But yes, it was.
It was a fun watch and I'm glad. I'm glad
you got to share.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
That was cool, age. I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
I'm thankful for everybody out there who took this ride
with us this season.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It was a crazy year.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Man. It was a wide open season. We had a
ton of fun covering it. It's certainly a lot in
the throes of the season, when he got upsets, when
he got.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
All these games go gone concurrently.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
But yeah, I just want to thank ARV ballerhood that
has continued to support us, that has grown with us
here over the last six months or so. It's been
definitely a great ride for us. Thank you to everybody
behind the scenes who helps us keep things afloat. Whether
it's reverbs, whether it's our discord server, whether it's things
on the business end or cutting videos or you name
(47:21):
it. It takes a bit of a village here to make
sure that everything stays afloat, So we're really grateful for
that as well. We will be with you throughout the
course of the off season. We will certainly tweak the
schedule here and there, try to give the Vocal Cords
a little bit of a chance to recuperate. But alas
congratulations to the Ohio State Buckeyes. The Ohio State Buckeyes
(47:43):
finishes your national champion thirty four to twenty three with
the mark of fourteen and two, and per our friend
Brett McMurphy, they are now the favorite to win in
the twenty twenty five season with five to one odds.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
What do they give me the odds for next year.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Is what it looks like.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Ohio State is your favorite at five to one to
be the national champion next season. George Bulldogs at six
to one, Your Oregon Ducks six and a half to one,
Sure Texas at seven to one, Penn State at nine
to one, Alabama at twelve, Notre Dame at seventeen to one,
(48:23):
and then just to round things out, Clemson at twenty
lsu Ole, Miss and Tennessee at twenty five A and
m at thirty, Michigan at forty.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Not a horrible bet, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
No, Auburn in Miami at fifty to one, South Carolina
and USC at sixty, Florida at eighty, Nebraska and Oklahoma
at one hundred.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
We get to do this whole thing over again. My friend.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Could be what Jim Knowles at Oklahoma next year. That
was the rumor going.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Into the game, Smitch rumors man.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Could be Al Golden with the Cincinnati Bengals. Could be
Mike Mickens taking over defense. There's a lot going on, man,
there's a lot. We'll have plenty of time to dissect
all of this and much much more.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
By the way, just on the topic of twenty twenty five,
Ohio State opens with Texas. Yes, they open with Texas Saturday,
August thirtieth. They're on the road at Washington. Could be
a little bit dicey. We'll see that. Illinois returns a
ton and they're on the road in Champagne. At Wisconsin
we'll see and at Michigan of course, to conclude their season.
(49:24):
Notre Dame opens the year at Miami, so that'll be
a carson Beck, hopefully healthy carson Beck Miami, they host
Texas A and m at home. They have Boise State
at Arkansas. They're not playing Boise State at Arkansas. Obviously
the Boise State. They travel to Arkansas the week before that.
USC is in South Bend. Back half of the schedule
seems to open up a little bit, but they are
(49:45):
at pitt and at Boston College. So an interesting first
half of the season. Oh yeah, for Notre Dame next
year at Miami, Texas A, and m at Boise USC.
It'll be a quarterback. Should be fun. We'll see on Notre Dame.
And I guess at this point what was the old
campaigning on trains the Whistlestop tour. Jody and I we'll
(50:10):
be doing an Oregon Michigan what it's like to be
at beat Ohio State tour. So look for us across
this great land and a unique marriage of beating the
national champion and not really mattering at all. In fact,
one of us got absolutely destroyed in a game against
the national championship recently, but no fun. Year should be
(50:33):
an incredible, incredible experience moving forward to see where the
hell this sport is going. Why don't we leave it
there again?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
We thank you all so much for your ongoing support.
Please check us out at verballers dot com. If you
made it this far, hit follow or subscribe. We will
continue reminding you to do that. If you've already done so,
please do us a favor and tell your friends as well.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
We're always trying to grow the forballer hood. We will
be back soon.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Make sure you stay tuned to those audio feeds, those
social feeds so that you're fully up to date with
what our schedule looks like moving forward. In the meantime, though,
Ohio State thirty four Notre Dame twenty three. Ohio State
is your national champions. The first national champion in the
(51:22):
expanded twelve team Playoff Era.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
One of two years of the twelve team playoff era.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, for that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein,
for myself, Tie Hildebrand. Thank you all so very very much.
We'll talk to y'all soon. Stay solid, Peace,
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