June 29, 2020 • 39 mins
As soon as we’re allowed to give hugs again, it’s hard to imagine not having WWE Superstar Big E at the top of your list. The teddy bear masquerading as the current WWE SmackDown! Tag Team Champion has proven himself in the ring for years now, but it’s his ability to see the larger picture that will make you a fan for life. Big E talks to Jensen about the racial divide dominating our culture, the history of the black performer in wrestling, and what the industry is facing in the form of sexual assault and harassment outed online by the #SpeakingOut movement. They also talk about The New Day: Feel The Power podcast, why Big E doesn’t miss an opportunity to speak the truth and whether The Undertaker’s retirement is like, for real for real. Oh, and look, we’ve got a brand new name – goodbye No-Sports Report, and welcome to The Sports Bubble! This episode and series supports FeedingAmerica.org. For more of The Sports Bubble, visit treefort.fm/the-sports-bubble
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Sports Bubble, a production of I Heart
Radio Entree Fork Media. My name is Jensen Carf and
I'm a sports fan, and look at us. We've got
a brand new name, the sports Bubble. You see with
golf and soccer and tennis and NASCAR and maybe baseball,
but for a little not baseball, and now maybe baseball again,
(00:25):
and basketball but also maybe not basketball, but yeah, probably basketball.
All these sports are returning, and because of that, the
No Sports Report just doesn't cut it anymore. But we'd
be fooling ourselves to think everything is going back to normal.
Normal is clearly subjective. Things are changing every fifteen minutes.
And anyone who pretends they know what's going to happen
when it comes to athletics, well they haven't seen that
(00:45):
video where Roger Goodell encourages kneeling. Hell has frozen over
and we're living in the matrix. And the quicker you accepted,
the better. So I'll just keep trekking along, following the changes,
riding the wave as our favorite games return or everything
just shuts down again and we're begging or another Jordan documentary.
I'll keep interviewing athletes and sports industry professionals about what
they're doing in this very weird time because someone has
(01:07):
to keep track. And now, for the first time, this
is the sports Bubble with Jensen carp five pound w
w E superstar Big E is a big, old, sensitive
teddy bear. Don't tell his opponents, but the current w
w E SmackDown Tag Team champion, former college football player,
and power lifts standout feels a lot. He's a former
(01:30):
Intercontinental and n x T champ, a two time Raw
tag team champion, and he's held the SmackDown titles he
now possesses a record six times. But it's his ability
to see the larger picture that's always stood out for me.
He's recently been vocal online and in the ring about
the racial divide dominating our culture, and though that seems
like something second nature to an African American in this
squared circle, well it hasn't been in the past. There's
(01:51):
a pretty big online swell for Big E to finally
get an individual shine as a singles champion, and I
get why. He's really a new voice in pro wrestling,
especially as part of the popular New Day podcast Feel
the Power, and his words are more in line with
society than maybe anything else in sports entertainment. This episode,
Biggie and I talked about the history of the black
performer in the w w E, his own experiences with
(02:11):
racial bias, and what the wrestling industry is facing in
the form of sexual predators and assaulters. Out it online
by women with the hashtag speaking Out, and to make
things a little lighter, we play the cameo game. It's
an important episode with Biggie in the sports bubble from
(02:35):
big to accept Press one. Hello Biggie, Well, I want
to start off. You know, we're obviously starting to gingerly
tiptoe our way back into the real world. But I
wanted to know where you've been quarantined and with who
(02:58):
I am solo. Although I lived in Lando Lakes, which
is a real town. Uh it's a real excellent town.
It's just upside of Tampa. And I've been quarantined alone.
There's not a ton of people we've spoken to alone.
Have you Have you enjoyed it? I have so. I
really liked my alone time. Even though I'm obnoxious on TV,
(03:21):
I am at heart and introvert. I like being alone.
I like my alone time. But I did find with
the quarantine that. So the first few days I think
was a little anxiety written just because I didn't know
this is We're just so used to having four shows
a week and then we have appearances, and you know,
there's some months where I've been home three days of
the whole month, and that's like pretty common just to
(03:43):
be gone all the time. So there was some some
anxiety initially when everything closed down, but then I kind
of got into a nice groove for the first probably
like six eight weeks honestly, and you know, Florida had
been open enough and maybe it shouldn't have been but
the recent spiking chases. But it allowed for me to
(04:03):
go over to Baron Corgan's house. It was about the
two minutes for me and I would just work at
work out at his his garage, so still allowed me
to work out, um, and it was I was finding
a nice balance between we still had the podcast that
we were doing, so we're staying busy with that, and
I was working out, having more time to like I've
recently the last probably the last year so I've really
got into guided meditation, so I've had more time to
(04:26):
do that and to stretch. So there were some things
that I really enjoyed with with having extra time, But
then I realized, man, I really missed people like I missed.
I'm fortunate enough to like so many of my co workers,
and you see them, you know, five days a week often,
and then you go to maybe seeing them once a week,
or if we do tapings, we might do two tapings
(04:46):
in a row and then be off for twelve days.
So it was just weird to, uh, to not see
people that I liked, and even even things like physical touch.
I realized how much I appreciate just a good hug,
as as simple as as medias that might sound, just
being able to hug someone was something that I missed.
So yeah, man, it's it's been a lot of kind
(05:08):
of just refiguring out the best way to stay saying
I think, yeah, Well, people who might not have been
following the w W during quarantine and the pandemic, you
guys have been taping out of Florida out of kind
of a small in house arena with at first no fans,
and then now they've sort of brought in some employees
to be fans. This must have been kind of the
(05:28):
best case scenario for you, since you live out there. Yeah,
it worked for me well because I love about hundred
miles from the performance center, and so I just popped
in a car and drove the hour and forty minutes. Uh,
And I could drive back every night. So it's also
like rare to sleep in your own bed every night. Um,
that was new for me. And yeah, so it was
(05:48):
I guess it was convenient in the fact that I
haven't had too haven't been on a plane since uh
like March twelve eleven ish around there, and that's very
uncommon where we're used to take in probably averaged three
to four flights a week with w w E Private
This Yeah, what a different life with this? Uh, you know,
with the w w E kind of publicly admitting to
(06:09):
hitting a bit of a snag with a developmental talent
testing positive. How did that throw a wrench into wrestling life?
Did that change how you guys normally do things? I mean,
is it is it kind of evolving the same way
the rest of the world is. Well, it definitely changed
our shooting schedule that week. So when we heard about
the positive test with an n X key talent, it's
we were supposed to tape on that day, but then
(06:31):
I think the day it came out, but the next day,
uh so we actually did tape that day, then the
next day we got on that evening the next day
we had to stop the taping and we all got tested.
We did the nasal swab for coronavirus, which I kind
of heard some horror stories and it's not great, don't
get me wrong. Not quite as bad as the thought,
but not great either. And so we had all got
(06:52):
tested that day and then if you were negative, then
you were allowed to tape again the next day. So
it's definitely, you know, caused a shift in the way
we do things and tape again, and I think there
may be some more testing moving forward, which is honestly
what we should be doing. I think, yeah, it seems safest.
And today I saw Kevin Owens came out and spoke
(07:13):
a little bit about his decision not to wrestle, and weirdly,
the w w E has faced this before the rest
of the of the sporting world. We have Avery Bradley
and a bunch of players who have just decided for
the health and safety of their family not to join
the NBA or you know, you'll we'll see that in
the NFL soon. Uh, you guys have faced it with
Roman reign Samy Zane, there's a bunch of of superstars
(07:35):
who kind of made their own decisions. Is that what
you guys are kind of encouraged to do? I think So,
I think it's, uh, you know, you have to consider
what your individual case is, the people you're around. I
think for those guys with families, I definitely understand completely
because you know it could it can devastate your family,
and that would that would like you know, to do this,
(07:56):
to decide to wrestle, to step into a ring, and
the fact it could really negatively affect your your family's
future as something that it's just I don't think it's
worth the risk for me. Like I said, I go
home to no one, So I kind of I think
there's a certain risk with wrestling that I've accepted anyways
for myself. And there's really no fear that I'm going
to get anyone else sick, not a family member or
(08:18):
anything like that. So I have really minimal contact with
anyone else outside of wrestling at all. So it's kind
of something that I've been more comfortable with going back
with supposed to know, with more testing, but I completely
you know, except that you know, there are people who
are going to say this is not right for me
and my family, and I think it's smart that they
decide not to step in the ring. And you you know,
(08:39):
you played college football, you found great success and power
lifting and with all that teamwork that you've been in
in the locker rooms that you've been in both sports
and sports entertainment. Now, can this be contained or is
social distancing the way is you know, like I have
been open about it on the podcast, being very nervous
for athletes going back. You've been back, So are there
things going on backstage getting ready? Are people keeping it
(09:03):
in mind? Man? It's hard because you talk about like
I played college football at at a major university of
ot Iowa, and it's very difficult because you're just used
to being around your teammates. And I've talked to like
two of my really good friends, um we played collegeball
together that we're like brothers. Um their coaches they're high
school coaches, and talking to them about some of the
(09:23):
things that they have to do where they have like
groups of ten and it's really limited. It doesn't feel
like that's not the way we're accustomed to running practices
and doing things same with us, Like we're we're a
business where there's a lot of contact with another human.
It's not like tennis or baseball where you can play
these sports and still have distance. You know, we're just
(09:44):
used to touching each other and even in the back,
like we're, we're encouraged to wear masks and to be
socially distant, but it can be difficult, and it's it's
hard to say, you know, after months and months of
seeing people that you really like or your your close
friends and having no physical contact with them, with seemingly
no end in sight. You know, this could be probably
several more months to go, I would say, at least
(10:06):
before we get back to a more normal schedule. So
it's definitely something that's encouraged, but I think just naturally,
it's very difficult for us to continue to maintain distance
and to continue to wear masks, and it's something that
we need to be cognizant of. But I don't know
how you will be able to enforce this in high
schools and in the NFL, the NBA, to make sure
(10:27):
that guys keep a respectable distance in a sport or
in a culture where you're just used to being around
people and used to being in close physical contact. Yeah,
I mean I even have trouble. My mom stopped by
the other day to see our kid, and I'm even
just like, the instinct to want to hug your family
isn't something we should be doing, right, I mean we did,
we don't do it. We haven't done it in months,
(10:47):
but even three months later, I'm seeing myself starting to
go for it. I mean, do you guys have kind
of those oops moments as well? Like, you know, it's
just you've you've trained and wrestling for so long. How
do you just change it out of nowhere? It's hard. Yeah,
definitely an adjustment, and I feel like we're and this
isn't the right thing, but I feel like we were
definitely more A lot of us were more cognisant of
(11:07):
it the first month or two months in, But then
you get to a point where you're at eight weeks in,
twelve weeks in, and you just kind of star for
physical contact and being close to people you enjoy, and
it's it's difficult, and it's it's obviously something that's important
because it's it's really wreaking havoc man, I like my
barber of mine. Uh, he's my barber, and he's just
(11:27):
he's a good friend of mine. Uh. Was someone who
not that he didn't believe it, you know, but but
Jay was someone who was in great shape. He worked
out a lot. He's not that old, but he kind
of questioned like, hey, I don't know anyone around me
who has it? Do you and just kind of was
more just kind of weird. But then he's been he
was in the hospital, just got out of the hospital.
He's in the hospital for eight or nine days. And
(11:49):
it really took it just took a huge toll on him.
He was he just didn't look the same. He FaceTime
me from a hospital and you could see how how
much it took a toll on him. And it's scary
to see. Like I was really worried, like is he
gonna make it? I don't. I don't know to see that.
But um, it's something that obviously we need to take
very seriously. And you know, I just think you've gotta
listen to the experts. You know, there's a lot of
(12:10):
people with you know, opinions who have no science, who
read stuff on Facebook and think they're qualified to weigh
in on what we should and shouldn't be doing. But
I really don't think it's that difficult to put a
mask on, you know. I don't think it's worth uh
storming your city halls just to wear a mask, you know.
So I have no problem wearing a mask. More with
w w E superstar Big E after this. Now let's
(12:33):
get back to Big E. Well, this time in America
has been wild, first with the pandemic and then with
the civil unrest semming from the murder of George Floyd.
I wanted to first talk to you about speaking up
in your industry. You you had a special episode of
your podcast where you tackled race, You've tweeted support for
Black Lives Matter, you took a knee at a recent
w W W tape, and you've had gear made with the
(12:54):
names of victims that have not yet had the justice
they deserve on them. Have you felt supported about this
from I mean the locker room in general, but maybe
white superstars. Yeah, I have. You know. One of the
things that was really eye opening to me is I
had so many of my peers reach out to me,
people who worked with us in digital fellow wrestlers who
(13:15):
wanted to reach out and either offer there you know,
support or some like. Several people also wanted to learn
and like one of the things that I realized that
I'm kind of out of loop with a lot of
this stuff, and I have been. I was an African
American litt minor in college, and I found, honestly, I
found the weight of of knowing the history of like
what happens to black men and women in this country. Uh,
(13:39):
it really feels like a weight. It was depressing, It
was sad, and I there was a big part of
me that just kind of wanted to distance myself from
a lot of that stuff after college because it was
hard to just continue to take in these images of
black people unjustly dying and nothing being done about it.
But I've the stuff with George Floyd and the aftermath
really weighed, so have on. Like you said, we we
(14:01):
were gonna you know, the podcast for us is usually
very fun and lose and irreverence, but it felt very
necessary for us to record uh an Hour and change,
and we did it. It It was the three of us
and a buddy of mine, Andrea's Hale, who works in
combat sports covers combat sports, but he also has a
history and activism. And you know, for the three of
(14:23):
us with me coping Woods, we don't have the answers,
but we wanted to speak to our experiences. So many
of my friends, young black men, who have that histories
of being pulled over by police, of being harassed by police,
of being unjustly stopped. Like we, this is something that
we've talked about, and especially now too many of my
friends have kids now and they're having to you know,
(14:44):
we talked about the talk usually is the birds and
the bees and talking to your kids about sex, but
for so many black men and women, their talk to
their kids is about how to act when you're pulled
over by police, because you don't know what can happen.
If you don't all the letter of everything they say you,
you fear that your child can be unjustly killed. And
(15:07):
even if they do follow every single thing they're told,
you never know. So a lot that's that's a big
part of what it means to raise a black child.
And that's scary, and that's frightening, and that's sad. And
you know, even me, like I got pulled over, I've
never gotten to any trouble, never had any issues with
the law. But in college it was a group of us.
We were actually be had the youth leadership program and
we put all played college football at Iowa and someone's
(15:31):
I think someone said that we had a gun in
the car and called the cops. And we did not
have a gun in the car, but we got pulled over.
I had a gun pulled on me by a cop.
And who knows, like how that could have gone to
have a gun a few inches from your face and
have done nothing wrong. And this this happens time and
time again. So you know, for us, it's uh, it's
it's very frustrating, very sad. And I found the George
(15:55):
Floyd news really really weighed heavy on me and something
that was a It was at the forefront of my
mind for days and days thinking about it, and for me,
I kind of felt some hopelessness. But I didn't want
to just use my anger and frustration and do nothing
with it. Um. I wanted to at least have a conversation.
(16:17):
And it's been nice. Man. We We've had so much
feedback from different people who reached out and said, man,
I didn't consider these things until I listened to your
podcast and I learned something or I heard a perspective
I had never heard before, and thank you. And you know,
I'm not going to presume to say we have all
the answers or any answers, but we just wanted to
speak to our experiences, to not be preachy, to to
(16:39):
not tell people how to feel or what to to believe,
but to tell you how we feel, to tell you
our experiences, to tell you the experiences of our black
friends and what they go through and the things that
are are in their minds when it comes to being
pulled over by beliefe. So a lot of what we've
done recently is it's trying to raise awareness. And you know,
sometimes I really think I don't know the power or
(17:01):
the purpose. Sometimes up a tweet or an Instagram post
and I really like, sometimes I'm wondering, am I just
screaming into a void or petting myself on the back
when I post something and feeling like I've done something
And that's not, that's not. I wanted to make sure
that it came from a good place, a place of
actually wanting to help make our country and our society
(17:21):
more equitable. I wanted to make sure it came from
a place of of not self aggrandizement, but a place
of of wanting to actually see a better world. So
we've done a few things and I think we're going
to to continue to do some things that you mentioned
taking a need to bring attention to this movement on SmackDown.
And the nice thing is, you know, we ran it
by by venture Man, our boss, and he approved it.
(17:43):
We got no pushback there. We got a lot of
support from the company with the podcast, and we can't
typically put out the video, um not the whole video
because of the way that the contract is with our podcast,
but they were so supportive with us putting up the
whole conversation because we felt like it was important for
people to listen to this our plus and to see
it and to see our faces and see our expressions.
(18:04):
So we were thankful that we got support from the
company too. But we've done different things. Like you said,
we put the names of the victims of these people
who who lost their lives and shouldn't have put them
on arm bands, Chikaradi, Brianna Taylor, Tamla Horsford, Riot, Milton
uh and so many more. And Uh, we we've done
a lot with trying to We've tried to do a lot.
(18:26):
We're trying to learn ourselves with reading. UM actually rent
across a great booklist from Victoria Alexander and she's at
Victoria a l x N d R on Twitter and
on Instagram, and I had a lot of people reach
out to me and asked like, Hey, how can I learn?
What can I read? What can I watch? And I'm
(18:47):
trying to find stuff that that I know of, but
she put out this great bookist of of just stuff.
If you want to be an ally and you're trying
to learn, here's just a laundry list of books. And
she does a great job. I believe she's a PhD
student and she's been putting out consistent information with with
ways to learn. So we just tried to do things
on our end. I've also worked with some great companies.
Astro flav is a supplement company and they're donating of
(19:11):
all the income that comes in from their products. In
June is going to the a CP Legal Defense and
Educational Fund. Same thing with Cameo. For a few days
all their cameos, they were donating a portion to the
end double a CP Legal Defense and educational fund, and
we've got a few other things in the next two
that we're trying to not just post on Twitter and
on social media, but to help raise money to for
(19:33):
organizations that are working towards racial justice. So it's been
a lot of that, just trying to do the work
in our communities, to try to stay on top of this,
to keep even just keeping the conversations going, man, honestly,
just just to keep talking about this. And I think
too often we've just shied away from this because we
didn't want to be labeled a racist. And it can
(19:54):
be uncomfortable because as soon as you feel that someone
is saying you're a racist or your racially sensitive, your
your first instinct can be to the back pedal or
to defend yourself. And for me, I don't want it
to be about It's not about labeling people around me
racist or or pointing fingers. It's about having these honest
conversations and analyzing the biases that we carry and being
(20:18):
honest about that. And and for us, it's really just
about like the same protection I want for my female
friends and for my gay friends and people I don't
know who are gay or female, the same protections that
I would want for them. I want for black men
and black women, and I you know, that's it's all,
it's all this fight is for. And uh, I think
(20:41):
it's something that's worth continuing to fight for even beyond
this next week or this next month. Uh, it's something
that's going to be at the forefront of you know,
at least my mind and trying to continue to keep
the conversations going and to keep fighting for a more
equitable country, a country where you don't feel that being
(21:03):
black is a strike or two. But you Yeah, anyone
who hasn't listened to the podcast, I highly suggest you do. Uh.
You guys did a great job, and you talk about
seeing some change even in what a tweet means and
those kind of things. I mean, I was so happy
to see Randy Orton tweet his support for Black Lives Matter,
and not for any reason other than in the past
(21:23):
he's sort of been a bit conservative with his political
views online. But I really do think that things like
that mean a lot. When you see someone who you know,
you don't necessarily equate with that kind of justice or
online you know, social justice or whatever you wanna call
and then they jump out with it. It has to
be rewarding, yeah, for sure. And you know, Randy will
admit like he doesn't have the squeaky clean past like
(21:46):
he's definitely you know, he's definitely made some mistakes in
the past. Um, and that's not to absolve him of
anything he's done. But like you said, he's he's had
this really conservative viewpoint. It's not for me to try
to make him a liberal or anything, but yeah, I
think it's something that he's had. He had some you know,
close black friends, and I consider Randy of friends, and
we've had some of these conversations at work, you know,
(22:08):
just over the course of the last few years even
and I think he's finally starting to get it, you know.
And and like you said, that is as impactful as
it can be to see black athlete or black entertainers
speak up about these things. I think it can be
really impactful as well to see someone like Randy who's
(22:29):
had these conservative views, who in the past would never
speak up to say anything like this too. You know,
I thought he did a really good job with what
he posted you and uh to offer that kind of support.
Growing up, I was a huge WWF fan at the time.
Obviously becomes w w E. I was never and I'm
a white kid from the suburbs, I was never a
huge fan of the way black wrestlers were portrayed. There
weren't a lot of realistic portrayals back then, you know,
(22:52):
a lot of stereotypes sort of being thrown out there.
What did you see as a kid watching? What was
your representation feeling when you watched? Yeah, and I guess
it really hit me more as I got older, as
I moved into my teenage years. And I agree completely.
I think we have a notice to say it kindly,
a very rocky path with the way we've depicted black wrestlers,
(23:14):
for sure, and uh, you know you have, you have
so many that are celebrated and I'm not going to
point the finger at the performer, but you know, Junkyard
Dog and Kamala was and even African Savage we didn't
speak and he padded his stomach, and you know, there
were a lot of depictions of black wrestlers that really
made you cringe when you look at it now. And
(23:37):
we wanted to not be that with the three of us,
that's what we really pushed for. And you know, at
first it was it was kind of in that mold.
We came out as three black inspirational speakers slash preachers,
and it didn't feel right. It didn't feel like us.
And then when we were finally able to have um
more of the reins, it really we had a more
(23:59):
authentic depiction of of who we were. You know, it's
obviously you know your characters who you are with the
volume turned up, it's kind of the same wrestling, and
that's what we wanted. That's because representation does matter, And
I know sometimes it can be to something that people
throw out there, but it does matter when you see
an authentic portrayal of someone who looks like you, who
acts like your friends and talks like your friends. Because
(24:21):
the three of us are into video games and anime
and we have a myriad of interest and so many
of our friends, so many of my black friends who
I grew up with, we're the same, Like they felt
ostracized because there weren't that many depictions of black guys
who liked anime or black women who were nerds. So
(24:41):
we wanted to to kind of open up that box
a little bit. And two shows like, hey, there's there's
a lot of us who who talk like this and
who like this is this is what we enjoy and
this is who we are, and we want to keep
pushing that to get more realistic depictions of black wrestlers
and uh, and to kind of get beyond that that
(25:02):
past that didn't pick black wrestlers in a in a
very good way. Yeah. And I think obviously you guys
now being veterans in the locker room, I think you
guys are clearly have been, especially you and KOFE and
and I mean, you guys have been changing the culture
around you, superstars like Bianca Blair, Keith Lee, Ricochet, Malcolm Bivens.
It feels like the tide is turning on a gimmick
that would glaringly only be given to a black superstar,
(25:24):
right right. And that's and that was kind of are
one of the things that we wanted to do. Like,
you get white wrestlers who are, like Wood says it
in a way that they they get this blank slate
that they can be any character across suspect and they
can be just just pretty much any character you can imagine,
they can pretty much be. But with black wrestlers until
(25:44):
maybe recently, and it's something we're still fighting for it.
You know, you had these very few tropes to pick from.
You can be an angry, randomly angry guy, or you
can be like a rapper slash dancer, or like we
got saddled with these preacher gimmicks. You just had these
like Okay, he's a black wrestler, she's a black wrestler,
and this is you have three or four of these
(26:05):
archetypes to choose from. We want to break that mold
and continue breaking that mold and showing that the black
experience is not this homogeneous single experience. We would come
from so many different backgrounds and countries and we have
a myriad of interest that we want to continue to
explore those on screen. And we want our fans to
(26:26):
be able to see Black wrestlers, Japanese wrestlers that aren't
just stuck into these boxes, that that are allowed to
be full uh unique interesting characters. And I think that matters,
and I think we'll continue to keep pushing for it
and no more kid rock. That's all I'm asking that
(26:47):
will help us at least see some black culture and
w W after this more with w W E Superstar
Biggie right now feeding a Mary UCA is working tirelessly
to ensure our most vulnerable populations, like students who are
out of school, the elderly individuals whose jobs are impacted,
(27:07):
and low income families continue to have access to food
and other needed resources during the COVID nineteen pandemic. The
Feeding America Food Bank Network is committed to serving communities
and people facing hunger in America, and their greatest need
is donations and support of local food banks. This podcast
is committed to donating a portion of the proceeds from
the show to Feeding America and we hope that you
(27:27):
can join us in this effort to find out how
you can help Feeding America dot org, backslash COVID nineteen
and now the rest of my chat with w w
E superstar and the host of the New Day podcast,
Big E. This past week has been extremely illuminating. You
(27:49):
kind of hinted to it for a second earlier, specifically
and Independent Wrestling and in the UK with the hashtag
speaking out about sexual harassment, assaulters, predators inside of the
wrestling world, which I did not see it being such
an epidemic. I know you tweeted out your support of
the women coming forward were you as surprised to see
how just absolutely rotten to the core. Uh this business
(28:11):
has kind of been last fifteen years out mostly outside
of the w W E. Yeah, man, it's um, I
guess I you know, sadly enough, I wasn't surprised you
hear some whispers or haven't understand the culture. I will
say there was there wasn't any specific instance or the
rest of that I knew that I saw and that
(28:32):
I had like covered up, or there wasn't anything that
I knew of and just shrugged my shoulders at. So
there wasn't anything that I was specifically aware of. But uh,
it really really saddened me to see and disgusted me
to see how prevalent this was. And I had to
give my like hatch off to like a friend of
mine actually was the one who started this all, Victoria.
(28:55):
She was brave enough to tell her story about David
Starr and this all came out, and then she emboldened
a lot of women and even men to come out
and talk about some of the things that they've experienced,
the way they were victimized in this industry. And I
think too often we as men, we shrugged our shoulders
or we've said she's probably lying, or we've turned a
(29:16):
blind eye to it, and we haven't given these victims
the voice and respect that they deserve. And I think
our industry can no longer tolerate what's going on. We
can no longer tolerate rape, we can no longer tolerate
sexual harassment. We can no longer shrug our shoulders at
the way women have been victimized in this industry. And
(29:36):
I hope these stories. I don't want to know that
there are more stories, or that you know, I don't
want that to be the case. I hope this is
the end of it. But I hope every woman gets
an opportunity to speak her voice, to be heard, to
be respected, to not be dismissed. I hope all of
the people who who are guilty of this, I hope
(29:57):
they're eradicated from the business. I hope there are usted.
I hope they're imprisoned. I hope it's a real turning
point in our business. And I hope that women aren't
persecuting I've I've already seen a lot of horrible comments
from people, you know, at the times. I think we
have a great fan base, but I think you can
also at times as a portion of it that can
be very toxic. I think the way it disrespects women,
the way it condones abusers and rapists, I think is
(30:21):
discussing and the problem. I think one of the things
that happens with a lot of these movements is that
it causes a surge and then a week or so
later it can be forgotten. And I hope to God
that's not the case. I hope this is not forgotten.
I hope it's something that we continue to talk about,
that we continue to clean up this industry, that we
continue to eradicate abusers, rapists, that we get them all
(30:44):
out of this business. That we have been prosecuted because
it's something that no woman or man, no one should
ever be victimized or or have to endure. And seeing
so many stories of kids, of people who are under
age who came into the wrestling business and wanted to
learn or to train and we're victimized is really disgusting.
It's a born and I hope we continue to keep
(31:05):
fighting this and to listen to and support those who
come out who tell their horrible stories, who are brave
enough to that they get the support they need that
we don't condone these abusers, that we don't just say, hey,
it's okay to to go to rehab and you can
come back, because that's not something that I'm interested in
if it means that justice is not something that we're
(31:27):
trying to pursue here. So I hope it's something we
continue to talk about and continue to be open with.
And I'm glad these stories are being heard. I'm sorry
that there are so many stories, but it's something that's
important to speak out against and to show women that
we support them and that we're going to to do
our best to investigate these allegations, to get rid of
these abusers, and that we have them prosecuted. Yeah. I
(31:50):
mean it's well said, and I think to like, it's
not the eighties business anymore, you know, as a guy
who's watched wrestling and I worked w W for a
while in writing, and I mean, it's a of a crew.
You know, you guys all grew up with a different
thought process than kind of what the womanizing. And that's
why it was so shocking to me to hear that
there was kind of this underbelly and indie wrestling, and
I think, you know, with you and and and and
(32:12):
so many guys on that roster involved in activism. I
think we've already seen changes, whether it be uh, you know,
a real kind of reach out to the Pride community
with Finn Baylor, I remember with his you know, his
gear with all the rainbow and now you know, Jake
Atlas and things that are happening in w W. I
think it's just now it's time to focus on the women.
It appears right right now completely and I think, you know,
(32:35):
as horrible as this year has has been in many respects,
I think one silver lining is that people are actually listening.
You know, I feel like a lot of times in
the past and maybe it's due to the pandemic and
the fact that a lot of us have I just
slowed down. We don't have as many distractions. A lot
of us aren't We're either not working or not working
as much. And we now have time to listen and
(32:56):
people are listening. So I hope we continue to listen.
I hope we take these things seriously, whether it's racial inequality,
whether it's you know, the awful crime of rape uh
and domestic abuse, you know, I hope we continue to
have these conversations and continue to take people seriously and
actually listen, and not to to speak from a place
(33:16):
of defense or or or condoning these acts, but to
actually listen to actually want to make our cultures better. Yeah. Well,
on a lighter note, someone wrapping up the last ride
on WW network right now? Can this really be the
Undertaker's retirement? I've heard this before. There's no way. What
are your thoughts? Is he done wrestling? Oh? Man, I
(33:38):
don't know. I thought he was done when he took
off the gloves and laid them down, So I don't know.
And athlete retirements, whether it's in wrestling or not, it
can be it can be very shaky, you know. It's uh, well,
you know, we all were wrapped up in the last
Dance and obviously m J retired and then unretired, and
it's very common in you know, with a guy as
(34:00):
popular as the Undertaker. I think, you know, what I
thought was the cinematic match, the match with a G
I thought was incredible, and I think he can continue
to have those kinds of matches. I think that I
think the cinematic match style, I think it's kind of
best for a guy like Undertaker. Who's older, who might
not be able to have the twenty five minute classics
(34:22):
in the ring that he would want at his age.
So I could see him continuing to do like cinematic
matches for a few more years. But you know, it's
it's kind of I guess it's his call. You know,
here's the the leverage to make the decision when he
wants to walk away, and I don't know, I don't
I'm not gonna make any declarations because I wouldn't be
surprised one bit if he returns. Yeah, he's coming back
(34:43):
with the forty five. He's gonna wearing forty five like Jordanhill.
He'll fight staying in a cinematic match. I'm saying it
now exactly all right. Lastly, something stupid I like to
do to end the end these interviews, Let's play a
game this time. You, like many athletes and celebrities during
the quarantine, gravitated towards cameo. You've been great involving charities
with yours. It's a place where a lot of people
(35:05):
were able to connect with their fans, especially during a
tough time. You I think are priced perfectly at a
hundred and twenty five dollars. Like you said, a lot
of it going to charity. But what I want to
do is I want to list off some of other celebrities.
You tell me if you think they are cheaper or
more expensive than you. Let's do it. Okay, all right,
Let's start with basketball player Austin Rivers. Uh, he is cheaper.
(35:28):
He is fifty dollars. Listen, if I got doc on
a kind of a conference call, I'd pay a lot more.
But I think fifties right for Austin? Right? Okay, here
we go wrap legend flavor flavor. Oh well, I think
Flave had that resergain several years ago with Flavor of Love.
I bet he, bet he thinks. I'm going to say
he's definitely more expensive than he is. Double he is
(35:49):
to fifty. He's a he's an expensive cameo. I'm not
s I'm not sucked it up. Okay, alright, bar rescue
John Taffer. This is the guy who yells at people
tells him their restaurant is garbage. I feel like I
could maybe get him to tell me my house is dirty. Uh?
Is he more expensive or cheaper than you? On cameo?
I'm going to guess he's someone who's a little self important.
(36:11):
I'm gonna go more expensive. Hey, you know what, I
agree with you. He's one fifty. I knew if you're
exactly right. You know that John Taffer is not humble
about his cameo pricing, so he is all right. Reality
TV star Heidi Montag from The Hills. Is she more
expensive or cheaper than you? Oh? She was a big
deal at one point. I'm going to go more expensive
(36:33):
than me. She is actually fifth, she's twenty dollars less.
She's a hundred dollars man, not bad. All right, Let's
go to Cisco the Thong song, you know, R and
B Crooner from drew Hills. Cisco. Is he less money
or more expensive than you? You know this is random,
but somehow would his friends Francisco had a gaming thing
or something. Uh they're like texts. I think we're trying
(36:55):
to do something with all of us. But uh so,
I will definitely not be arching Cisco. I will go cheaper.
He is cheaper. He's a hundred dollars. But also now
I am obsessed with the idea of New Day being
the new Drew Hill with Cisco coming out and performing.
R and B at a show. We've talked for years.
We've talked about doing a booty song, you know, like
(37:16):
an old school Miami basse. Uh, that kind of like
just that that kind of booty song. And I think
with Cisco, I think that's the way to do it.
Love it lastly, let's do one last one. It is
a teen heart throb Jennifer Love Hewitt. Is she cheaper
or more expensive than Biggie on cameo? She should definitely
be more expensive. I had a huge crush on Jennifer
(37:38):
Love to do it in my teen years. What a
beautiful woman, I'll go she is by dollars, she's won fifty.
You did very good in the game. I did want
to also let you know that the soup nazis only
eighty dollars. I didn't even need to ask you. It's
just seems like he's too low, considering we can get
him to say no soup for you to any family member, right, right,
He's way too low. I'm sure you know this because
(37:59):
I try to at all possible times. Are a huge
science fans, favorite sitcom, all time, favorite TV show all
the time. Sure, And uh, that's that's a bargain. I
think it's a great bargain. Yeah. Well, Biggie, thank you
for not only doing the interview, but for everything you're
doing with w w E and making sure that you
know they have so many kid fans. I feel like
you guys are doing a great doing great work with
(38:19):
with alerting people to what's going on around the world.
And thanks for talking to me. I appreciate that we're
trying world, just trying. Thanks for having me. It was funny.
W w E intellectual property used with permission of World
Wrestling Entertainment, Incorporated. The Sports Bubble is produced and distributed
(38:42):
by tree Fort Media. The show was executive produced by
Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman, Matthew Coogler, and me Jensen Carr.
Tom Monahan is our senior audio engineer and sound supervisor,
with production and editing by Jasper Leek additional production help
from Tim Shower, June Rosen, and Hayley Mandelberg. Theme music
is composed by Spilkis. If you've enjoyed what you've heard,
(39:03):
please subscribe, rate us and review us on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts,
and please visit Feeding America dot org. If you're able
to make a donation. Any amount makes a difference, and
you can learn more about other ways you can help
on their website. For more information on the Sports Bubble,
links to the socials, and for show transcripts for our
hearing impaired listeners, go to tree Fort dot fm. Be
(39:26):
safe and be Well. The Sports Bubble is a production
of I Heart Radio and tree Fort Media. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to the Sports Bubble, a production of I Heart
Radio Entree Fork Media. My name is Jensen Carf and
I'm a sports fan, and look at us. We've got
a brand new name, the sports Bubble. You see with
golf and soccer and tennis and NASCAR and maybe baseball,
but for a little not baseball, and now maybe baseball again,
(00:25):
and basketball but also maybe not basketball, but yeah, probably basketball.
All these sports are returning, and because of that, the
No Sports Report just doesn't cut it anymore. But we'd
be fooling ourselves to think everything is going back to normal.
Normal is clearly subjective. Things are changing every fifteen minutes.
And anyone who pretends they know what's going to happen
when it comes to athletics, well they haven't seen that
(00:45):
video where Roger Goodell encourages kneeling. Hell has frozen over
and we're living in the matrix. And the quicker you accepted,
the better. So I'll just keep trekking along, following the changes,
riding the wave as our favorite games return or everything
just shuts down again and we're begging or another Jordan documentary.
I'll keep interviewing athletes and sports industry professionals about what
they're doing in this very weird time because someone has
(01:07):
to keep track. And now, for the first time, this
is the sports Bubble with Jensen carp five pound w
w E superstar Big E is a big, old, sensitive
teddy bear. Don't tell his opponents, but the current w
w E SmackDown Tag Team champion, former college football player,
and power lifts standout feels a lot. He's a former
(01:30):
Intercontinental and n x T champ, a two time Raw
tag team champion, and he's held the SmackDown titles he
now possesses a record six times. But it's his ability
to see the larger picture that's always stood out for me.
He's recently been vocal online and in the ring about
the racial divide dominating our culture, and though that seems
like something second nature to an African American in this
squared circle, well it hasn't been in the past. There's
(01:51):
a pretty big online swell for Big E to finally
get an individual shine as a singles champion, and I
get why. He's really a new voice in pro wrestling,
especially as part of the popular New Day podcast Feel
the Power, and his words are more in line with
society than maybe anything else in sports entertainment. This episode,
Biggie and I talked about the history of the black
performer in the w w E, his own experiences with
(02:11):
racial bias, and what the wrestling industry is facing in
the form of sexual predators and assaulters. Out it online
by women with the hashtag speaking Out, and to make
things a little lighter, we play the cameo game. It's
an important episode with Biggie in the sports bubble from
(02:35):
big to accept Press one. Hello Biggie, Well, I want
to start off. You know, we're obviously starting to gingerly
tiptoe our way back into the real world. But I
wanted to know where you've been quarantined and with who
(02:58):
I am solo. Although I lived in Lando Lakes, which
is a real town. Uh it's a real excellent town.
It's just upside of Tampa. And I've been quarantined alone.
There's not a ton of people we've spoken to alone.
Have you Have you enjoyed it? I have so. I
really liked my alone time. Even though I'm obnoxious on TV,
(03:21):
I am at heart and introvert. I like being alone.
I like my alone time. But I did find with
the quarantine that. So the first few days I think
was a little anxiety written just because I didn't know
this is We're just so used to having four shows
a week and then we have appearances, and you know,
there's some months where I've been home three days of
the whole month, and that's like pretty common just to
(03:43):
be gone all the time. So there was some some
anxiety initially when everything closed down, but then I kind
of got into a nice groove for the first probably
like six eight weeks honestly, and you know, Florida had
been open enough and maybe it shouldn't have been but
the recent spiking chases. But it allowed for me to
(04:03):
go over to Baron Corgan's house. It was about the
two minutes for me and I would just work at
work out at his his garage, so still allowed me
to work out, um, and it was I was finding
a nice balance between we still had the podcast that
we were doing, so we're staying busy with that, and
I was working out, having more time to like I've
recently the last probably the last year so I've really
got into guided meditation, so I've had more time to
(04:26):
do that and to stretch. So there were some things
that I really enjoyed with with having extra time, But
then I realized, man, I really missed people like I missed.
I'm fortunate enough to like so many of my co workers,
and you see them, you know, five days a week often,
and then you go to maybe seeing them once a week,
or if we do tapings, we might do two tapings
(04:46):
in a row and then be off for twelve days.
So it was just weird to, uh, to not see
people that I liked, and even even things like physical touch.
I realized how much I appreciate just a good hug,
as as simple as as medias that might sound, just
being able to hug someone was something that I missed.
So yeah, man, it's it's been a lot of kind
(05:08):
of just refiguring out the best way to stay saying
I think, yeah, Well, people who might not have been
following the w W during quarantine and the pandemic, you
guys have been taping out of Florida out of kind
of a small in house arena with at first no fans,
and then now they've sort of brought in some employees
to be fans. This must have been kind of the
(05:28):
best case scenario for you, since you live out there. Yeah,
it worked for me well because I love about hundred
miles from the performance center, and so I just popped
in a car and drove the hour and forty minutes. Uh,
And I could drive back every night. So it's also
like rare to sleep in your own bed every night. Um,
that was new for me. And yeah, so it was
(05:48):
I guess it was convenient in the fact that I
haven't had too haven't been on a plane since uh
like March twelve eleven ish around there, and that's very
uncommon where we're used to take in probably averaged three
to four flights a week with w w E Private
This Yeah, what a different life with this? Uh, you know,
with the w w E kind of publicly admitting to
(06:09):
hitting a bit of a snag with a developmental talent
testing positive. How did that throw a wrench into wrestling life?
Did that change how you guys normally do things? I mean,
is it is it kind of evolving the same way
the rest of the world is. Well, it definitely changed
our shooting schedule that week. So when we heard about
the positive test with an n X key talent, it's
we were supposed to tape on that day, but then
(06:31):
I think the day it came out, but the next day,
uh so we actually did tape that day, then the
next day we got on that evening the next day
we had to stop the taping and we all got tested.
We did the nasal swab for coronavirus, which I kind
of heard some horror stories and it's not great, don't
get me wrong. Not quite as bad as the thought,
but not great either. And so we had all got
(06:52):
tested that day and then if you were negative, then
you were allowed to tape again the next day. So
it's definitely, you know, caused a shift in the way
we do things and tape again, and I think there
may be some more testing moving forward, which is honestly
what we should be doing. I think, yeah, it seems safest.
And today I saw Kevin Owens came out and spoke
(07:13):
a little bit about his decision not to wrestle, and weirdly,
the w w E has faced this before the rest
of the of the sporting world. We have Avery Bradley
and a bunch of players who have just decided for
the health and safety of their family not to join
the NBA or you know, you'll we'll see that in
the NFL soon. Uh, you guys have faced it with
Roman reign Samy Zane, there's a bunch of of superstars
(07:35):
who kind of made their own decisions. Is that what
you guys are kind of encouraged to do? I think So,
I think it's, uh, you know, you have to consider
what your individual case is, the people you're around. I
think for those guys with families, I definitely understand completely
because you know it could it can devastate your family,
and that would that would like you know, to do this,
(07:56):
to decide to wrestle, to step into a ring, and
the fact it could really negatively affect your your family's
future as something that it's just I don't think it's
worth the risk for me. Like I said, I go
home to no one, So I kind of I think
there's a certain risk with wrestling that I've accepted anyways
for myself. And there's really no fear that I'm going
to get anyone else sick, not a family member or
(08:18):
anything like that. So I have really minimal contact with
anyone else outside of wrestling at all. So it's kind
of something that I've been more comfortable with going back
with supposed to know, with more testing, but I completely
you know, except that you know, there are people who
are going to say this is not right for me
and my family, and I think it's smart that they
decide not to step in the ring. And you you know,
(08:39):
you played college football, you found great success and power
lifting and with all that teamwork that you've been in
in the locker rooms that you've been in both sports
and sports entertainment. Now, can this be contained or is
social distancing the way is you know, like I have
been open about it on the podcast, being very nervous
for athletes going back. You've been back, So are there
things going on backstage getting ready? Are people keeping it
(09:03):
in mind? Man? It's hard because you talk about like
I played college football at at a major university of
ot Iowa, and it's very difficult because you're just used
to being around your teammates. And I've talked to like
two of my really good friends, um we played collegeball
together that we're like brothers. Um their coaches they're high
school coaches, and talking to them about some of the
(09:23):
things that they have to do where they have like
groups of ten and it's really limited. It doesn't feel
like that's not the way we're accustomed to running practices
and doing things same with us, Like we're we're a
business where there's a lot of contact with another human.
It's not like tennis or baseball where you can play
these sports and still have distance. You know, we're just
(09:44):
used to touching each other and even in the back,
like we're, we're encouraged to wear masks and to be
socially distant, but it can be difficult, and it's it's
hard to say, you know, after months and months of
seeing people that you really like or your your close
friends and having no physical contact with them, with seemingly
no end in sight. You know, this could be probably
several more months to go, I would say, at least
(10:06):
before we get back to a more normal schedule. So
it's definitely something that's encouraged, but I think just naturally,
it's very difficult for us to continue to maintain distance
and to continue to wear masks, and it's something that
we need to be cognizant of. But I don't know
how you will be able to enforce this in high
schools and in the NFL, the NBA, to make sure
(10:27):
that guys keep a respectable distance in a sport or
in a culture where you're just used to being around
people and used to being in close physical contact. Yeah,
I mean I even have trouble. My mom stopped by
the other day to see our kid, and I'm even
just like, the instinct to want to hug your family
isn't something we should be doing, right, I mean we did,
we don't do it. We haven't done it in months,
(10:47):
but even three months later, I'm seeing myself starting to
go for it. I mean, do you guys have kind
of those oops moments as well? Like, you know, it's
just you've you've trained and wrestling for so long. How
do you just change it out of nowhere? It's hard. Yeah,
definitely an adjustment, and I feel like we're and this
isn't the right thing, but I feel like we were
definitely more A lot of us were more cognisant of
(11:07):
it the first month or two months in, But then
you get to a point where you're at eight weeks in,
twelve weeks in, and you just kind of star for
physical contact and being close to people you enjoy, and
it's it's difficult, and it's it's obviously something that's important
because it's it's really wreaking havoc man, I like my
barber of mine. Uh, he's my barber, and he's just
(11:27):
he's a good friend of mine. Uh. Was someone who
not that he didn't believe it, you know, but but
Jay was someone who was in great shape. He worked
out a lot. He's not that old, but he kind
of questioned like, hey, I don't know anyone around me
who has it? Do you and just kind of was
more just kind of weird. But then he's been he
was in the hospital, just got out of the hospital.
He's in the hospital for eight or nine days. And
(11:49):
it really took it just took a huge toll on him.
He was he just didn't look the same. He FaceTime
me from a hospital and you could see how how
much it took a toll on him. And it's scary
to see. Like I was really worried, like is he
gonna make it? I don't. I don't know to see that.
But um, it's something that obviously we need to take
very seriously. And you know, I just think you've gotta
listen to the experts. You know, there's a lot of
(12:10):
people with you know, opinions who have no science, who
read stuff on Facebook and think they're qualified to weigh
in on what we should and shouldn't be doing. But
I really don't think it's that difficult to put a
mask on, you know. I don't think it's worth uh
storming your city halls just to wear a mask, you know.
So I have no problem wearing a mask. More with
w w E superstar Big E after this. Now let's
(12:33):
get back to Big E. Well, this time in America
has been wild, first with the pandemic and then with
the civil unrest semming from the murder of George Floyd.
I wanted to first talk to you about speaking up
in your industry. You you had a special episode of
your podcast where you tackled race, You've tweeted support for
Black Lives Matter, you took a knee at a recent
w W W tape, and you've had gear made with the
(12:54):
names of victims that have not yet had the justice
they deserve on them. Have you felt supported about this
from I mean the locker room in general, but maybe
white superstars. Yeah, I have. You know. One of the
things that was really eye opening to me is I
had so many of my peers reach out to me,
people who worked with us in digital fellow wrestlers who
(13:15):
wanted to reach out and either offer there you know,
support or some like. Several people also wanted to learn
and like one of the things that I realized that
I'm kind of out of loop with a lot of
this stuff, and I have been. I was an African
American litt minor in college, and I found, honestly, I
found the weight of of knowing the history of like
what happens to black men and women in this country. Uh,
(13:39):
it really feels like a weight. It was depressing, It
was sad, and I there was a big part of
me that just kind of wanted to distance myself from
a lot of that stuff after college because it was
hard to just continue to take in these images of
black people unjustly dying and nothing being done about it.
But I've the stuff with George Floyd and the aftermath
really weighed, so have on. Like you said, we we
(14:01):
were gonna you know, the podcast for us is usually
very fun and lose and irreverence, but it felt very
necessary for us to record uh an Hour and change,
and we did it. It It was the three of us
and a buddy of mine, Andrea's Hale, who works in
combat sports covers combat sports, but he also has a
history and activism. And you know, for the three of
(14:23):
us with me coping Woods, we don't have the answers,
but we wanted to speak to our experiences. So many
of my friends, young black men, who have that histories
of being pulled over by police, of being harassed by police,
of being unjustly stopped. Like we, this is something that
we've talked about, and especially now too many of my
friends have kids now and they're having to you know,
(14:44):
we talked about the talk usually is the birds and
the bees and talking to your kids about sex, but
for so many black men and women, their talk to
their kids is about how to act when you're pulled
over by police, because you don't know what can happen.
If you don't all the letter of everything they say you,
you fear that your child can be unjustly killed. And
(15:07):
even if they do follow every single thing they're told,
you never know. So a lot that's that's a big
part of what it means to raise a black child.
And that's scary, and that's frightening, and that's sad. And
you know, even me, like I got pulled over, I've
never gotten to any trouble, never had any issues with
the law. But in college it was a group of us.
We were actually be had the youth leadership program and
we put all played college football at Iowa and someone's
(15:31):
I think someone said that we had a gun in
the car and called the cops. And we did not
have a gun in the car, but we got pulled over.
I had a gun pulled on me by a cop.
And who knows, like how that could have gone to
have a gun a few inches from your face and
have done nothing wrong. And this this happens time and
time again. So you know, for us, it's uh, it's
it's very frustrating, very sad. And I found the George
(15:55):
Floyd news really really weighed heavy on me and something
that was a It was at the forefront of my
mind for days and days thinking about it, and for me,
I kind of felt some hopelessness. But I didn't want
to just use my anger and frustration and do nothing
with it. Um. I wanted to at least have a conversation.
(16:17):
And it's been nice. Man. We We've had so much
feedback from different people who reached out and said, man,
I didn't consider these things until I listened to your
podcast and I learned something or I heard a perspective
I had never heard before, and thank you. And you know,
I'm not going to presume to say we have all
the answers or any answers, but we just wanted to
speak to our experiences, to not be preachy, to to
(16:39):
not tell people how to feel or what to to believe,
but to tell you how we feel, to tell you
our experiences, to tell you the experiences of our black
friends and what they go through and the things that
are are in their minds when it comes to being
pulled over by beliefe. So a lot of what we've
done recently is it's trying to raise awareness. And you know,
sometimes I really think I don't know the power or
(17:01):
the purpose. Sometimes up a tweet or an Instagram post
and I really like, sometimes I'm wondering, am I just
screaming into a void or petting myself on the back
when I post something and feeling like I've done something
And that's not, that's not. I wanted to make sure
that it came from a good place, a place of
actually wanting to help make our country and our society
(17:21):
more equitable. I wanted to make sure it came from
a place of of not self aggrandizement, but a place
of of wanting to actually see a better world. So
we've done a few things and I think we're going
to to continue to do some things that you mentioned
taking a need to bring attention to this movement on SmackDown.
And the nice thing is, you know, we ran it
by by venture Man, our boss, and he approved it.
(17:43):
We got no pushback there. We got a lot of
support from the company with the podcast, and we can't
typically put out the video, um not the whole video
because of the way that the contract is with our podcast,
but they were so supportive with us putting up the
whole conversation because we felt like it was important for
people to listen to this our plus and to see
it and to see our faces and see our expressions.
(18:04):
So we were thankful that we got support from the
company too. But we've done different things. Like you said,
we put the names of the victims of these people
who who lost their lives and shouldn't have put them
on arm bands, Chikaradi, Brianna Taylor, Tamla Horsford, Riot, Milton
uh and so many more. And Uh, we we've done
a lot with trying to We've tried to do a lot.
(18:26):
We're trying to learn ourselves with reading. UM actually rent
across a great booklist from Victoria Alexander and she's at
Victoria a l x N d R on Twitter and
on Instagram, and I had a lot of people reach
out to me and asked like, Hey, how can I learn?
What can I read? What can I watch? And I'm
(18:47):
trying to find stuff that that I know of, but
she put out this great bookist of of just stuff.
If you want to be an ally and you're trying
to learn, here's just a laundry list of books. And
she does a great job. I believe she's a PhD
student and she's been putting out consistent information with with
ways to learn. So we just tried to do things
on our end. I've also worked with some great companies.
Astro flav is a supplement company and they're donating of
(19:11):
all the income that comes in from their products. In
June is going to the a CP Legal Defense and
Educational Fund. Same thing with Cameo. For a few days
all their cameos, they were donating a portion to the
end double a CP Legal Defense and educational fund, and
we've got a few other things in the next two
that we're trying to not just post on Twitter and
on social media, but to help raise money to for
(19:33):
organizations that are working towards racial justice. So it's been
a lot of that, just trying to do the work
in our communities, to try to stay on top of this,
to keep even just keeping the conversations going, man, honestly,
just just to keep talking about this. And I think
too often we've just shied away from this because we
didn't want to be labeled a racist. And it can
(19:54):
be uncomfortable because as soon as you feel that someone
is saying you're a racist or your racially sensitive, your
your first instinct can be to the back pedal or
to defend yourself. And for me, I don't want it
to be about It's not about labeling people around me
racist or or pointing fingers. It's about having these honest
conversations and analyzing the biases that we carry and being
(20:18):
honest about that. And and for us, it's really just
about like the same protection I want for my female
friends and for my gay friends and people I don't
know who are gay or female, the same protections that
I would want for them. I want for black men
and black women, and I you know, that's it's all,
it's all this fight is for. And uh, I think
(20:41):
it's something that's worth continuing to fight for even beyond
this next week or this next month. Uh, it's something
that's going to be at the forefront of you know,
at least my mind and trying to continue to keep
the conversations going and to keep fighting for a more
equitable country, a country where you don't feel that being
(21:03):
black is a strike or two. But you Yeah, anyone
who hasn't listened to the podcast, I highly suggest you do. Uh.
You guys did a great job, and you talk about
seeing some change even in what a tweet means and
those kind of things. I mean, I was so happy
to see Randy Orton tweet his support for Black Lives Matter,
and not for any reason other than in the past
(21:23):
he's sort of been a bit conservative with his political
views online. But I really do think that things like
that mean a lot. When you see someone who you know,
you don't necessarily equate with that kind of justice or
online you know, social justice or whatever you wanna call
and then they jump out with it. It has to
be rewarding, yeah, for sure. And you know, Randy will
admit like he doesn't have the squeaky clean past like
(21:46):
he's definitely you know, he's definitely made some mistakes in
the past. Um, and that's not to absolve him of
anything he's done. But like you said, he's he's had
this really conservative viewpoint. It's not for me to try
to make him a liberal or anything, but yeah, I
think it's something that he's had. He had some you know,
close black friends, and I consider Randy of friends, and
we've had some of these conversations at work, you know,
(22:08):
just over the course of the last few years even
and I think he's finally starting to get it, you know.
And and like you said, that is as impactful as
it can be to see black athlete or black entertainers
speak up about these things. I think it can be
really impactful as well to see someone like Randy who's
(22:29):
had these conservative views, who in the past would never
speak up to say anything like this too. You know,
I thought he did a really good job with what
he posted you and uh to offer that kind of support.
Growing up, I was a huge WWF fan at the time.
Obviously becomes w w E. I was never and I'm
a white kid from the suburbs, I was never a
huge fan of the way black wrestlers were portrayed. There
weren't a lot of realistic portrayals back then, you know,
(22:52):
a lot of stereotypes sort of being thrown out there.
What did you see as a kid watching? What was
your representation feeling when you watched? Yeah, and I guess
it really hit me more as I got older, as
I moved into my teenage years. And I agree completely.
I think we have a notice to say it kindly,
a very rocky path with the way we've depicted black wrestlers,
(23:14):
for sure, and uh, you know you have, you have
so many that are celebrated and I'm not going to
point the finger at the performer, but you know, Junkyard
Dog and Kamala was and even African Savage we didn't
speak and he padded his stomach, and you know, there
were a lot of depictions of black wrestlers that really
made you cringe when you look at it now. And
(23:37):
we wanted to not be that with the three of us,
that's what we really pushed for. And you know, at
first it was it was kind of in that mold.
We came out as three black inspirational speakers slash preachers,
and it didn't feel right. It didn't feel like us.
And then when we were finally able to have um
more of the reins, it really we had a more
(23:59):
authentic depiction of of who we were. You know, it's
obviously you know your characters who you are with the
volume turned up, it's kind of the same wrestling, and
that's what we wanted. That's because representation does matter, And
I know sometimes it can be to something that people
throw out there, but it does matter when you see
an authentic portrayal of someone who looks like you, who
acts like your friends and talks like your friends. Because
(24:21):
the three of us are into video games and anime
and we have a myriad of interest and so many
of our friends, so many of my black friends who
I grew up with, we're the same, Like they felt
ostracized because there weren't that many depictions of black guys
who liked anime or black women who were nerds. So
(24:41):
we wanted to to kind of open up that box
a little bit. And two shows like, hey, there's there's
a lot of us who who talk like this and
who like this is this is what we enjoy and
this is who we are, and we want to keep
pushing that to get more realistic depictions of black wrestlers
and uh, and to kind of get beyond that that
(25:02):
past that didn't pick black wrestlers in a in a
very good way. Yeah. And I think obviously you guys
now being veterans in the locker room, I think you
guys are clearly have been, especially you and KOFE and
and I mean, you guys have been changing the culture
around you, superstars like Bianca Blair, Keith Lee, Ricochet, Malcolm Bivens.
It feels like the tide is turning on a gimmick
that would glaringly only be given to a black superstar,
(25:24):
right right. And that's and that was kind of are
one of the things that we wanted to do. Like,
you get white wrestlers who are, like Wood says it
in a way that they they get this blank slate
that they can be any character across suspect and they
can be just just pretty much any character you can imagine,
they can pretty much be. But with black wrestlers until
(25:44):
maybe recently, and it's something we're still fighting for it.
You know, you had these very few tropes to pick from.
You can be an angry, randomly angry guy, or you
can be like a rapper slash dancer, or like we
got saddled with these preacher gimmicks. You just had these
like Okay, he's a black wrestler, she's a black wrestler,
and this is you have three or four of these
(26:05):
archetypes to choose from. We want to break that mold
and continue breaking that mold and showing that the black
experience is not this homogeneous single experience. We would come
from so many different backgrounds and countries and we have
a myriad of interest that we want to continue to
explore those on screen. And we want our fans to
(26:26):
be able to see Black wrestlers, Japanese wrestlers that aren't
just stuck into these boxes, that that are allowed to
be full uh unique interesting characters. And I think that matters,
and I think we'll continue to keep pushing for it
and no more kid rock. That's all I'm asking that
(26:47):
will help us at least see some black culture and
w W after this more with w W E Superstar
Biggie right now feeding a Mary UCA is working tirelessly
to ensure our most vulnerable populations, like students who are
out of school, the elderly individuals whose jobs are impacted,
(27:07):
and low income families continue to have access to food
and other needed resources during the COVID nineteen pandemic. The
Feeding America Food Bank Network is committed to serving communities
and people facing hunger in America, and their greatest need
is donations and support of local food banks. This podcast
is committed to donating a portion of the proceeds from
the show to Feeding America and we hope that you
(27:27):
can join us in this effort to find out how
you can help Feeding America dot org, backslash COVID nineteen
and now the rest of my chat with w w
E superstar and the host of the New Day podcast,
Big E. This past week has been extremely illuminating. You
(27:49):
kind of hinted to it for a second earlier, specifically
and Independent Wrestling and in the UK with the hashtag
speaking out about sexual harassment, assaulters, predators inside of the
wrestling world, which I did not see it being such
an epidemic. I know you tweeted out your support of
the women coming forward were you as surprised to see
how just absolutely rotten to the core. Uh this business
(28:11):
has kind of been last fifteen years out mostly outside
of the w W E. Yeah, man, it's um, I
guess I you know, sadly enough, I wasn't surprised you
hear some whispers or haven't understand the culture. I will
say there was there wasn't any specific instance or the
rest of that I knew that I saw and that
(28:32):
I had like covered up, or there wasn't anything that
I knew of and just shrugged my shoulders at. So
there wasn't anything that I was specifically aware of. But uh,
it really really saddened me to see and disgusted me
to see how prevalent this was. And I had to
give my like hatch off to like a friend of
mine actually was the one who started this all, Victoria.
(28:55):
She was brave enough to tell her story about David
Starr and this all came out, and then she emboldened
a lot of women and even men to come out
and talk about some of the things that they've experienced,
the way they were victimized in this industry. And I
think too often we as men, we shrugged our shoulders
or we've said she's probably lying, or we've turned a
(29:16):
blind eye to it, and we haven't given these victims
the voice and respect that they deserve. And I think
our industry can no longer tolerate what's going on. We
can no longer tolerate rape, we can no longer tolerate
sexual harassment. We can no longer shrug our shoulders at
the way women have been victimized in this industry. And
(29:36):
I hope these stories. I don't want to know that
there are more stories, or that you know, I don't
want that to be the case. I hope this is
the end of it. But I hope every woman gets
an opportunity to speak her voice, to be heard, to
be respected, to not be dismissed. I hope all of
the people who who are guilty of this, I hope
(29:57):
they're eradicated from the business. I hope there are usted.
I hope they're imprisoned. I hope it's a real turning
point in our business. And I hope that women aren't
persecuting I've I've already seen a lot of horrible comments
from people, you know, at the times. I think we
have a great fan base, but I think you can
also at times as a portion of it that can
be very toxic. I think the way it disrespects women,
the way it condones abusers and rapists, I think is
(30:21):
discussing and the problem. I think one of the things
that happens with a lot of these movements is that
it causes a surge and then a week or so
later it can be forgotten. And I hope to God
that's not the case. I hope this is not forgotten.
I hope it's something that we continue to talk about,
that we continue to clean up this industry, that we
continue to eradicate abusers, rapists, that we get them all
(30:44):
out of this business. That we have been prosecuted because
it's something that no woman or man, no one should
ever be victimized or or have to endure. And seeing
so many stories of kids, of people who are under
age who came into the wrestling business and wanted to
learn or to train and we're victimized is really disgusting.
It's a born and I hope we continue to keep
(31:05):
fighting this and to listen to and support those who
come out who tell their horrible stories, who are brave
enough to that they get the support they need that
we don't condone these abusers, that we don't just say, hey,
it's okay to to go to rehab and you can
come back, because that's not something that I'm interested in
if it means that justice is not something that we're
(31:27):
trying to pursue here. So I hope it's something we
continue to talk about and continue to be open with.
And I'm glad these stories are being heard. I'm sorry
that there are so many stories, but it's something that's
important to speak out against and to show women that
we support them and that we're going to to do
our best to investigate these allegations, to get rid of
these abusers, and that we have them prosecuted. Yeah. I
(31:50):
mean it's well said, and I think to like, it's
not the eighties business anymore, you know, as a guy
who's watched wrestling and I worked w W for a
while in writing, and I mean, it's a of a crew.
You know, you guys all grew up with a different
thought process than kind of what the womanizing. And that's
why it was so shocking to me to hear that
there was kind of this underbelly and indie wrestling, and
I think, you know, with you and and and and
(32:12):
so many guys on that roster involved in activism. I
think we've already seen changes, whether it be uh, you know,
a real kind of reach out to the Pride community
with Finn Baylor, I remember with his you know, his
gear with all the rainbow and now you know, Jake
Atlas and things that are happening in w W. I
think it's just now it's time to focus on the women.
It appears right right now completely and I think, you know,
(32:35):
as horrible as this year has has been in many respects,
I think one silver lining is that people are actually listening.
You know, I feel like a lot of times in
the past and maybe it's due to the pandemic and
the fact that a lot of us have I just
slowed down. We don't have as many distractions. A lot
of us aren't We're either not working or not working
as much. And we now have time to listen and
(32:56):
people are listening. So I hope we continue to listen.
I hope we take these things seriously, whether it's racial inequality,
whether it's you know, the awful crime of rape uh
and domestic abuse, you know, I hope we continue to
have these conversations and continue to take people seriously and
actually listen, and not to to speak from a place
(33:16):
of defense or or or condoning these acts, but to
actually listen to actually want to make our cultures better. Yeah. Well,
on a lighter note, someone wrapping up the last ride
on WW network right now? Can this really be the
Undertaker's retirement? I've heard this before. There's no way. What
are your thoughts? Is he done wrestling? Oh? Man, I
(33:38):
don't know. I thought he was done when he took
off the gloves and laid them down, So I don't know.
And athlete retirements, whether it's in wrestling or not, it
can be it can be very shaky, you know. It's uh, well,
you know, we all were wrapped up in the last
Dance and obviously m J retired and then unretired, and
it's very common in you know, with a guy as
(34:00):
popular as the Undertaker. I think, you know, what I
thought was the cinematic match, the match with a G
I thought was incredible, and I think he can continue
to have those kinds of matches. I think that I
think the cinematic match style, I think it's kind of
best for a guy like Undertaker. Who's older, who might
not be able to have the twenty five minute classics
(34:22):
in the ring that he would want at his age.
So I could see him continuing to do like cinematic
matches for a few more years. But you know, it's
it's kind of I guess it's his call. You know,
here's the the leverage to make the decision when he
wants to walk away, and I don't know, I don't
I'm not gonna make any declarations because I wouldn't be
surprised one bit if he returns. Yeah, he's coming back
(34:43):
with the forty five. He's gonna wearing forty five like Jordanhill.
He'll fight staying in a cinematic match. I'm saying it
now exactly all right. Lastly, something stupid I like to
do to end the end these interviews, Let's play a
game this time. You, like many athletes and celebrities during
the quarantine, gravitated towards cameo. You've been great involving charities
with yours. It's a place where a lot of people
(35:05):
were able to connect with their fans, especially during a
tough time. You I think are priced perfectly at a
hundred and twenty five dollars. Like you said, a lot
of it going to charity. But what I want to
do is I want to list off some of other celebrities.
You tell me if you think they are cheaper or
more expensive than you. Let's do it. Okay, all right,
Let's start with basketball player Austin Rivers. Uh, he is cheaper.
(35:28):
He is fifty dollars. Listen, if I got doc on
a kind of a conference call, I'd pay a lot more.
But I think fifties right for Austin? Right? Okay, here
we go wrap legend flavor flavor. Oh well, I think
Flave had that resergain several years ago with Flavor of Love.
I bet he, bet he thinks. I'm going to say
he's definitely more expensive than he is. Double he is
(35:49):
to fifty. He's a he's an expensive cameo. I'm not
s I'm not sucked it up. Okay, alright, bar rescue
John Taffer. This is the guy who yells at people
tells him their restaurant is garbage. I feel like I
could maybe get him to tell me my house is dirty. Uh?
Is he more expensive or cheaper than you? On cameo?
I'm going to guess he's someone who's a little self important.
(36:11):
I'm gonna go more expensive. Hey, you know what, I
agree with you. He's one fifty. I knew if you're
exactly right. You know that John Taffer is not humble
about his cameo pricing, so he is all right. Reality
TV star Heidi Montag from The Hills. Is she more
expensive or cheaper than you? Oh? She was a big
deal at one point. I'm going to go more expensive
(36:33):
than me. She is actually fifth, she's twenty dollars less.
She's a hundred dollars man, not bad. All right, Let's
go to Cisco the Thong song, you know, R and
B Crooner from drew Hills. Cisco. Is he less money
or more expensive than you? You know this is random,
but somehow would his friends Francisco had a gaming thing
or something. Uh they're like texts. I think we're trying
(36:55):
to do something with all of us. But uh so,
I will definitely not be arching Cisco. I will go cheaper.
He is cheaper. He's a hundred dollars. But also now
I am obsessed with the idea of New Day being
the new Drew Hill with Cisco coming out and performing.
R and B at a show. We've talked for years.
We've talked about doing a booty song, you know, like
(37:16):
an old school Miami basse. Uh, that kind of like
just that that kind of booty song. And I think
with Cisco, I think that's the way to do it.
Love it lastly, let's do one last one. It is
a teen heart throb Jennifer Love Hewitt. Is she cheaper
or more expensive than Biggie on cameo? She should definitely
be more expensive. I had a huge crush on Jennifer
(37:38):
Love to do it in my teen years. What a
beautiful woman, I'll go she is by dollars, she's won fifty.
You did very good in the game. I did want
to also let you know that the soup nazis only
eighty dollars. I didn't even need to ask you. It's
just seems like he's too low, considering we can get
him to say no soup for you to any family member, right, right,
He's way too low. I'm sure you know this because
(37:59):
I try to at all possible times. Are a huge
science fans, favorite sitcom, all time, favorite TV show all
the time. Sure, And uh, that's that's a bargain. I
think it's a great bargain. Yeah. Well, Biggie, thank you
for not only doing the interview, but for everything you're
doing with w w E and making sure that you
know they have so many kid fans. I feel like
you guys are doing a great doing great work with
(38:19):
with alerting people to what's going on around the world.
And thanks for talking to me. I appreciate that we're
trying world, just trying. Thanks for having me. It was funny.
W w E intellectual property used with permission of World
Wrestling Entertainment, Incorporated. The Sports Bubble is produced and distributed
(38:42):
by tree Fort Media. The show was executive produced by
Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman, Matthew Coogler, and me Jensen Carr.
Tom Monahan is our senior audio engineer and sound supervisor,
with production and editing by Jasper Leek additional production help
from Tim Shower, June Rosen, and Hayley Mandelberg. Theme music
is composed by Spilkis. If you've enjoyed what you've heard,
(39:03):
please subscribe, rate us and review us on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts,
and please visit Feeding America dot org. If you're able
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you can learn more about other ways you can help
on their website. For more information on the Sports Bubble,
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(39:26):
safe and be Well. The Sports Bubble is a production
of I Heart Radio and tree Fort Media. For more
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!