December 9, 2024 • 38 mins
In this conversation, the hosts discuss the Minnesota Vikings' recent victory over the Atlanta Falcons, focusing on quarterback performances, the impact of free agency, and the team's potential as Super Bowl contenders. They analyze the contrasting styles of Kirk Cousins and Sam Darnold, the effectiveness of the Vikings' offensive strategies, and the importance of targeting key players like Jordan Addison. The discussion also touches on the narrative surrounding MVP awards and the overall dynamics of the Vikings' season. In this conversation, Jake and Minnesota Tim discuss the Minnesota Vikings' playoff prospects, focusing on their current performance and potential matchups. They delve into Sam Darnold's role as the quarterback, evaluating his performance and future with the team. The discussion also covers contract considerations for Darnold, weighing the risks and rewards of signing him long-term versus exploring other options. The conversation concludes with an analysis of Darnold's potential choices in the upcoming offseason, considering the stability and success of the Vikings compared to other teams.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We are continuing our elite reaction from the Minnesota Vikings
victory over the team they played yesterday, the Atlanta Falcons,
where they advanced to eleven and two.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was just gonna just sit there and think about it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Sometimes you just have random breen first.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Obviously, I know they played Kirk Cousins and I talked
about it yesterday a little bit, but it's like, sometimes
you just go through these moments where you just space out.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
So I had to have a filler word in there.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And two, you know, it's not like you're in one.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Here.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
We're just picking up, just getting into it.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Right, We're moving, We're moving to upward trajectory. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
They were kind of like Kirk Cousins is, Wow, this
is terrible. We're kind of like Sam Donald's season, Wow,
this is garbage. You know, some people would start this
podcast over again. But you know what, we're not some people.
We march on, we march forward, and we make adjustments
on the fly and we figure it out.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're our true authentic selves. And if you don't like it,
suck it all right. Jake Vikings win forty one, Kirk
Cousins zero touchdowns, two picks, zero touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Are now four.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Straight games Sam Darnold five touchdowns, zero interceptions in his
last four games eleven touchdowns, zero interceptions. Your reaction to
the game, your reaction to the quarterback play, just give me,
give me.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Your your your feeling following the win.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I would never actually try to look at look
this seven figured out. Has there ever been a better
free agent class than what the two thousand and you know,
twenty four offseason Minnesota Vikings had. I mean, think about
the players that they signed and the success they're having.
And I'm talking like Vikings history maybe all time. Are
(02:16):
you talking about a quarterback that I was just looking
because I was curious and I get this counts today
or like this counts yesterday? I should say, you know,
he's Darnold sixth in passing yards, seventh in completion percentage,
tied for third and touchdowns QBR. He's not quite as high.
(02:36):
I don't think where did he go doesn't matter? Yeah,
he's like in the middle for QBR. But the point
is you have a top whatever you want to say
about him, right now, he's spending like a top ten quarterback,
no questions. You could argue top five in the league.
You have Aaron Jones who is just again chugging along
(02:56):
and doing his thing. He's tenth in yards with missing
some times. There's some time, you know, some games and stuff.
So he's been efficient with when he's been healthy. Then
Ginkel Grenard just doing great, Gilmour has been good. Even
Shack Griffin yesterday was fine. And it's that's my first
(03:19):
takeaway is that is the best free agent recruiting class
that the Vikings probably I've ever signed. I'm sure somebody
will point out that there was one that was way better,
but just as a whole, because I mean I can
count Brett Fire sending him like, yeah, that was him
alone made that class worth it. But the depth of
how who we signed and how they're fitting this puzzle
(03:39):
is perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So that's a good take. I don't think about that. Yeah,
I mean, that is a good take. I have ben't
even thought about it like that. And you think about
the free agency class that was and is still were
only predicted to win over under six and a half
games by one of the largest betting market websites there are,
(04:04):
and they completely flip that on its head. So I'll
be curious to see now that they are eleven and
two this year, and everyone's going to be after the
season's over, after they win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Obviously, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Curious to see what this free agency class does next
year and who leaves and who comes back, because Cam
Bidam's a free agent and Viral Murphy Junior is a
free agent, and you know there's some good pieces on
our defense this year that will be free agents now
(04:39):
Grenard and Ben Ginkel and I guess Gilmore signed a
one year deal, Shack Griffin signed it one. I'll just
be curious to see who returns next year and who doesn't.
That's how the Vikings replace those guys, because this offseason
they have more money than they've really ever had in
a long time. So yeah, what the Ross reconstruction looks
(05:01):
like this summer going towards next fall, Because when you
going eleven and two to start the season and you're
winning all these games, well, everyone's gonna want to do
it again next year, or if you don't, everyone's gonna
be wondering what's wrong with the Vikings organization, like how
it fell apart?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Like what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Chance for Kevin O'Connell to be fired if they don't
perform the way that they're performing this year, which is
mostly unlikely, and like probably not gonna go eleven and
two to start next year. So I don't know, I'll
just it'll be a fascinating thing to watch.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, well, I mean a couple of things. One, I
got to imagine we're one of the only teams in
NFL history we have two of the top twenty three
quarterbacks in terms of passing yards this year. Wow, because
Daniel Jones. Yeah, I'm just scrolling through and I'm like,
Viking Oh, Dania Jones. Yeah, technically, No, I mean I
(05:58):
feel like this season, you know, I think eventually the
coaches just kind of need to be replaced. As you know,
their voice gets stale and just it happens. Right, It's
not like it's his diss on the coach.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's hard to do what the Steelers do, which is
Mike Tomin's been there for twenty years, and before that
it was Coward for twenty years, and before that was
another guy for twenty years. Right, That's hard to do.
Not likely, But if there's anybody I wish, I hope
the Vikings could do it with I hope it's koc
because this season, I mean, he's proven it his whole
career so far, but this season is like the most
(06:35):
proof you could ever need. And I hope that Vikings
fans are realistic, you know, because like you made the point,
are they going to be eleven to two next year?
Probably not. I mean that's very few teams are, and
very few teams repeat it year after year of the year.
It's just not you know, there's thirty two professional teams
that are all trying to win games, all trying to
get better. It just doesn't happen that you're always elite.
(06:57):
It doesn't happen. So I hope we don't turn on him.
I know I won't, but I hope they don't will
turn on the next Next year we're floating around five hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, they're definitely turning on him.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I know. I'm just by PSA my colleague service, and
please give Kaos the longest, you know, chain of all
time or most grace of all time, because that dude
knows how to coach and knows how to get guys
to buy in. And it's it's fun to watch.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Thirteen and four's rookie year, all those one score wins.
Second season, Kirk Cousins goes down as the Vikings are
finally hitting stride, wins multiple games with Josh Jobbs has
the Vikings like eight and four, and then the season
collapses because Josh Doobbs eventually ran out of gas.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Came back. Yeah, I came came back to life.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And now this season with a fully healthy team, I
love it in two So with a fully healthy roster,
all Kevin O'Connell has done is proven that they're one
of the top five top tens to ball teams in
the league. So that's what that's that's that's the rap
on Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Uh, so far do you think.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
The Vikings won the Kirk Cousins Sam Donald swap.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, I mean that's the facts here. Cousins does have
let's see, can we do some on the fly math? Absolutely,
one ninety seven more yards passing. Cousins does.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Okay, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know Donald has thirteen more touchdowns and five left picks. Yeah,
we won. There was I think it was the Bill
Simmons podcast that I think it was Bill Simmons. I
think Cousins brought it up. He was talking about there's
(08:58):
some sort of stab the nfell And I don't know,
I probably can't find it about like how often or
like quarterback speed throwing, like throwing their passes, Like they're
tracking miles per hour of how hard quarterbacks for their
passes now.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Or they track everything they track every nowadays.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And he said Kirk Cousins was the only quarterback to
not throw a ball over it was like thirty two
miles per hour or something like that, and every other
quarterback in the league had thrown it that hard. Interesting,
but the point being like and you watch them, right,
you could see those, you know, but whether it's his
achilles or just age or probably a combination of the two,
(09:35):
he does not have the same zip on his ball.
I mean you watch some of those like out passes
and those corners that he's throwing, and.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They just kind of wobble in their poppy and.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They're lollipoppy and they just don't you know, He's still accurate,
I mean, he's still throwing it to the right places,
to the right reads even right, it's just those throwers
don't have the same juice on that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Thirteen and four from three year years ago, Kirk did
where it was just singing, zing zing zing. I mean
that was fun to watch because he was so accurate,
made the right reads so often and with good receivers,
which Tuckings have fine receivers. You know, he's zipping it
around and just hitting guys, timing throws, all that sort
of stuff, and he just can't do it to the
level that he's used to. And when you I mean
(10:19):
what the announcers said, I was his third scramble of
the year was yesterday. It was called backup holding, I think,
but right, like, if you're not going to move and
you throw floaters, like what do you what do you
bringing to the table at that point?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
You know, And that's.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Something that Sam Donald adds that Kirk Cousins can't the
long touchdown pass to Justin Jefferson, then you know, I
would say it was the play of the game just
because of what Donald did in the backfield, avoiding defenders,
eluding defenders, and then heaving went down the field as
every single Minnesota Vikings fan is just saying, run for
(10:57):
the first down, run for the first down, run for
the first is down. All Jefferson's wide open and he
walks into the end zone. Is oh yeah, don't listen
to me, Sam donov. Yah, that's something Kirk Cousens could
never do.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And he has one hundred and ninety four rushing yards
Generald does, which I know probably doesn't seem like a lot,
but like, that's quite a bit. That's quite a bit.
I mean, that's think about how many first downs that is.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I mean, that's not nothing, right work.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean again, if you look at kirk Cousins, he
has essentially zero, you know, right, So yeah, I mean
that's keeping plays alive. Scrambling around again, that's broken plays.
You have to cover a guy like Jefferson or Addison
or even Hockinson while you're scrambling around, and you know,
all of a sudden you run into the left, but
then he scrambles rights and Alston Jefferson's run to the right.
(11:48):
To that kind of stuff where it's like unpredictable, you know,
unpredictable situations. You have to guard guys in. I mean
that's really really hard to do, right, Yeah, you don't
have to be Michael Vick out there, but if you
can just run just that little bit and makes such
a huge difference, and that does make it.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
And then and then and they're backbreakers to the defense. Yeah,
you know, you cover everyone down the field. And how
many times did this happen to the Vikings? Even Jay
Cutler as the former Bears quarterback back then you would
I think about him because you don't think of him
as a running quarterback. But there'd be times where the
Vikings coverage would be amazing and they would be covering
(12:27):
the Brandon Marshalls of the world, and somehow Jay Cutler
would find a scene and he would run for ten yards.
It's like, oh, I forgot that he could run, Like
no one expects him to run and off for ten
yards or six yards for a first down, Like that's
all you need to do, so like you need to
run it consistently, but just to have the threat of
(12:49):
being able to do it, I give his team a
first down. That a backbreaker is a huge deal. And
Sam Donald offers that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, no, it's it's we've kind of touched on it
a little bit. And you know, since the beginning of
the season, all right, we kept saying, like, how good
does for the record? I was just thinking to quick
Cousins had zero rushing yards this year.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This year this year? Yeah, what wow, that's.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Crazy twenty five for us last year he peaked at
one hundred and fifty six one.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Of the years with US HM, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He has he has zero twenty carries for zero yards
technically and said.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
K two theories call me insane or sane for these.
It was not coincidence that Kevin O'Connell and Sam Donald
had their career game against Kirk Cousins and the Atlanta Sugans.
I think it was purposeful that Sam Donald was unleashing
(13:55):
the football down the field more than he's ever had
this season through bombs that Addison multiple times, a bomb
to Jefferson. Five touchdowns I careered. It's not like he
threw two touchdowns three touchdowns. This is five touchdowns. I
think if any quarterback is gonna throw five touchdowns in
the league, you have to be extremely intentional about that
(14:17):
guy getting five touchdowns. And it just happens to be
Kirk Cousins, who left because he didn't want the contract
that the Vikings were offering.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think there's a little something there.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Again, I don't have the stats in front of me,
but I know Burrow threw five twice this year, and
I'd be curious. I don't know if anyone else has
this year. So that I mean, it's five touchdowns, right,
like you said, it's rare, and it's intentional. I mean
you got to be but you also have to be firing, right,
you have to be on actually you have to be
on all those sorts of things. I mean, yeah, I
think we forget about they're professional athletes, so it just
(14:51):
kind of seems like there's that disconnect you wonder. I mean,
there's no question in my mind that Darnold was extra motivated,
KOs was extra motivated, even like the Vikings defense right
to go sactly, you know, you know, get interception off him,
that kind of stuff. It plays a role. I mean,
especially in the month. You know, year after year, season
(15:11):
after season, you know, game after game, it can be
kind of a lull a little bit. And I'm sure
they were had a little extra space to him this year.
That's or this week, I should say, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And then my second theory, the Minnesota Vikings offense goes
as much as Sam Darnold targets Jordan Aison. And the
reason why is because you know, justin Jefferson requires all
the attention requires two to three guys shifting towards his side,
covering his area of the field on almost every single play.
(15:44):
And when that happens, Jordan Andison, who's playing a wide
receiver two role and a wide receiver one's body has
one on one.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Coverage, so you gotta target him.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And I think that's the shift that we've seen from
from Sam Donald.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And early in the season he was good.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Mid season, he was tanking because he had tunnel vision
towards Justin Jefferson. And now what we've seen recently is
the ascension of Sam Darnald because he's targeting Jordan Andison
more is getting it more involved, is throwing him the
ball as Jefferson commands two guys three guys towards him.
So now that we're seeing it sounds counterintuitive, you know,
(16:25):
target Addison More over Jefferson, But when you lay it
out there, I think it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean you're just talking about balance, right,
I mean it's like any sport anywhere, Like in basketball,
if you have one absolute stud and no one else
gets involved, you can just key on that stud, right,
you need the second scorer to help alleviate the pressure
for that main scores that they can start scoring. Same
thing with NFL, right, I mean it's if you get
Addison the ball and you prove that he's a legitimate threat.
(16:52):
I mean three touchdowns yesterday, you suddenly can't help Jefferson
quite as much his way because you got to honor
the Addison side of it too. So I mean, that's
that's tough to cover. I will say Jesse Bates had
one of the worst games the Falcon safety that I
maybe noticed from an NFL safety where he kept he
(17:13):
made some poor choices like the one Jefferson touchdown when
Donald scrambled on when you were talking about like he
left his deep safety position to try to run up
and get Donald and just left Jefferson wide open his
corner at the corner was like what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But well, Jefferson was wide open like right away too.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, the replay and before Donald could scramble to his
right and by time Jefferson was it's a broken coverage
immediately and then showed it on tv.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
YEA for perspective. Quarterbacks to throw five touchdowns this season
include Burrow did it twice and Donald once, Jackson Lamar
Jackson once and that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So yeah, Sam Donald is not in that category. And
did you say Josh Allen was in that list?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, no, no, he had six yesterday, but I think
three were rushing and three were passing, so that's it's
a whole different category. He's wearing fifty some fantasy points
for all you fantasy people out there.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
That m VP conversation is getting interesting, especially after Donald's game.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think it's gonna be Alan just because there.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I think so too. He's the guy this year.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, it's so much of it is narrative and lamars
for Mahomes isn't having having good enough stats this year
for even though the records obviously lead goth is similar,
It's like he's not elite enough. It's kind of like
Josh Allen has been in the mix so many times,
like it's his time and that are good. Don't get
(18:44):
me wrong. I mean he's like, you know, obviously he's
like worthy of it.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
The MVP ble bothers me like because of that reason.
You know, it's like it's such a reputation award. It
just goes to the player that they think deserves it. Now,
like every sport, not just the NFL, like NBA Michael
Jordan should have won MVP every year he was in
the league from nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety eight.
Lebron James the same thing. He should have won MVP
(19:12):
for like ten straight years. Of course they got to
spread it around, give it to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, like Russell Westbrook winning it when he had the
triple double year. That wasn't even Russell's best year, the
Westbrook Westbrook's best year, but it was like, oh, he's
so awesome getting.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
A triple double, right, even though he's shooting like twenty
eight percent from the field.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, all right, I don't know. I mean, Allen is
he's eleventh in yards, twenty three touchdowns, only five picks,
and then obviously the rushing is where his he's the
difference maker.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The next question, and I think we have to think
deeper about this question. Now that the Vikings are eleven
and two, how much are you buying them as Super
Bowl contenders? Because you look at the record eleven and two,
and you must look deeper than the record to think
that they're not Super Bowl contenders at this point. Because
(20:05):
eleven and two one game behind the Detroit Lions. Everything
would point towards the Vikings being super Bowl contenders. Donald
twenty eight touchdowns, ten picks. Everything's coming into life right
now for the Vikings offense, a late defense. On paper,
everything is pointing towards super Bowl contenders. The only thing
(20:27):
that would make us think that they're not super Bowl
contenders is a theory of Sam Donald not being able
to perform at this level in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm, I'm all the way bout in.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
You're about it.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I got a stake on Donald Island. Yeah, it's we're
all in.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Now, it doesn't mean I think they're going to obviously,
But just like when you're listing the teams that realistically
could you go Lions yes, uh, Eagles yes, and then
you're going Vikings yes. I mean that's that they're the
third best team and there's no ifans or butts about it. So,
I mean, if you look at their path, they probably
(21:13):
have to go to the worst. You know, the line schedule,
they have a couple of tricky ones.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Like I do they got the Bills next week.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
The Bills next week, and if all of a sudden,
the Bills kind of need to win that to stay
with the one seed race, so they're going to be
going out and so you know, you never know, it
could get the division. But assuming we end up second
the division, you know you've gotta go on the road
to the fourth best division winner, probably the Bucks or
the Falcons again maybe mm hm. You know, it looks
(21:42):
like the NFC West will have somebody that's a little
bit better than them, like terms of the Rams or
the seahawksmen end up with a better record. So you know,
so you have to win away game, which is not
easy to do no matter who you're playing in the playoffs.
But then after but.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Then that means you avoid Detroit second round.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Then you're avoiding Detroit in the second round.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You got more likely, that's true.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, that's hard to our favorite would never beat Philly
on the road.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
That's tough.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So that's the biggest hinderance is that they're not going
to have home field simply because their division.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But they still could if they will, if they beat
Green Bay at home, beat the Packers at home, and
basically Week seventeen or Week eighteen versus Detroit could be
for that divisional one seed.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yep, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And I would be interested to know, the tie breakers
end up being in terms of, like we both end
up you know, what are we right now? We're loving
in two two. So if we're going in and we
each have two losses, let's say, you know, the lines
dropped next week, you know, and we split so that
we both have or you know whatever. The point is
that we both.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Saw the same record, right, yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know, when we're one and one against each other,
I wonder I haven't paid attention to I guess it's
usually division record, mm hmm whatever, But anyway, yeah, no,
it should be exciting fish And again I'm boughten. They
could make a run. They have a good enough defense,
their offense is balanced enough, you know, run the ball,
passing the ball. Donald has played in some big games
(23:14):
and not crumbled for the most part. Like he's good
enough to get it done. Doesn't mean he will, doesn't
mean I've been on it. But they at least they're
in that conversation, which is all that.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Right, right, they're in the conversation right now. And and
you know, for.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
The longest time I've said that they are not Super
Bowl condenders, just based on the theory that Sam Donald
will melt eventually, and then kind of when it comes
to playoff time, you're in a new spotlight and it's
a bigger, bigger, bigger moment, Like the pressure is huge.
He's never been in the playoffs before besides a backup.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
On the Niners.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And that's where I keep on struggling because paper everything
looks good. But you know what, I'm in The Minnesota
Vikings are Super Bowl contenders right now at eleven and two.
And I'm very cautious about this statement because I feel
like anytime it makes statements like this, then the Vikings
all of a sudden go crashing down.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
They lose the best player to injury.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
They they lose against the Bears, they lose against Seattle,
they lose against Green Bay. They finished the season with
four or five straight losses. And you know, before the
season I said they were five and twelve. They doubled
more than double that record. Yeah I think five and twelve. Yeah,
well they've flipped that on it. Well, now that I'm
going in the reverse way, I'm scared that they're going
(24:36):
to reverse the other way. So I'm not a Jinksky,
but it happened before.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You look at the odds, there's six, there's six. Can
you name this? Five teams ahead of them?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Chief Spills, Chief Spills, Lion's Eagles, Lions Eagles. Hmmm, let
me run through my Pittsburgh Rivers.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
No, they're the students are eighth.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
For the record, the Lions are first.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Okay, which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I mean, that's it, but just it's still crazy to
see that and actually process it that the Lions are first.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Baltimore Ravens there you go, okay, and the rich tricky
team this year because everyone loves the Ravens. There ain't five.
I know they're putting up as like, oh, Derrick Henry
and Lamar Jackson, that duo is unstoppable.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There ain't five.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, it is kind of weird. Yeah, so they got
Ravens probably.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
But they got a toss game at the Giants next week.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, in the playoff game though, when you have Lamar
running around like true, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It is all right.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Now, maybe end with this year and this year something else.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
No, go ahead, I.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Don't know, and obviously we're not there. We don't know.
Whatever I report. Yesterday's Chefty on the ESPN or something said,
the Vikings and Donald have not had any long term
conversations on conversations, Yeah, which makes sense. I mean, I
get you're not not something going to try to worry
about in the middle of it a good season, but yeah,
(26:20):
I feel like the Vikings are going to be if
they don't sign Donald, I feel like that'll be a
huge mistake.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Really wow.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Unless he is like astronomically expensive.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
He's going to be astronomically expensive, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
But I'm like, even if he's just expensive, I think
you have to sign him.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Really. I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
If he's like if someone pays him like he's Kirk
Cousins or like he's you know, any any of the
top ten guys, then then you can't. But he's going
to be like expensive for us in terms of like, yeah,
it's a lot more than we were expecting, but he's
still in that ten to fifteenth highest paid quarterback range
(27:01):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But even with McCarthy on the roster, I.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Think, even with McCarthy on the roster, I just don't
think you can what's the old phrase, like one of
the hand is worth two in the bush, right, we
can say what we want about, you know, looking at
JJ and what we might have and what he could
be and all these things, but when you have a
guy that's literally proving it and saying, like showing you
(27:26):
with his play, I am a top five to top
ten quarterback depending, how do you not to your point
not bring that back?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's a risky This is a decision that gets people fired.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, it is for everybody, right, bring back? If you
go with JJ, he's awful next year, then so you
know hot.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
See immediately yep, especially if Darnold goes out and has
a successful run with another team. If he fails with
another team, I think you're okay. And if he goes
to the Raiders and sucks, so it's like, well, you
know we got good a year out of them, and yeah, yeah,
that's a good take.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
The risk forward two, Like if Donald is bad next year,
you have JJ, right, Like if Donald regresses, yeah, you
pay a lot of money in that part will stink,
but you can still switch, Like you can still adjust.
If JJ's bad, you got nothing. You got maybe Daniel
Jones if that's who they resigned, the backup. But you
know what I mean, Like it's just people get so
(28:27):
caught up, and I know we spent a first round
pick and I know he's supposed to be the future,
and he hopefully still will be at some point, whether
that's next year, ends up being three years from now.
But if you can get Donald on a three year
deal for even if it's three years one hundred and
I don't know, one hundred and twenty hundred, something like that,
(28:49):
and just you know, see if he's got this magic
for another couple of years and then JJ can come in,
you know, maybe two years from now, or even if
it ends up being three years, because Donald is playing
at such an elite level, you have to keep playing.
You know. It's just the idea of what could be
get people so excited.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And I get it, this is true.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You don't know, Hey, J we anticipation, patient, like, how
what's he going to be like.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Quarterbacks surround the team? Yeah, and I get it again,
it is exciting.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But at the end of the day, you have a
guy who literally is showing you that he's him as
the kids today nowadays.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's true, it's true. That's a good take. I appreciate
that take.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, And because we've talked about right week one, we're like,
how or no week one probably, but a few weeks
in when Donald's winning. We're like, at one point, like,
what does Donald have to do for us to resign?
Because at being the season is like no matter what happens,
you know, and we can't say, well, if they you know,
ten wins, if they get twelve wins, if they playoffs
(29:52):
and make a run, like, what when do you decide
to sign him? I mean, what more does Donald have
to show? Ye? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The problem is his numbers getting bigger and bigger, right, yeah, yeah,
So anyway, I love that take, and I'm gonna have
to wrap up the podcast right now, but it's a
great take if.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You're Donald too, though. Here is just you know, you
think about from his perspective, and this will be a pooh,
you gotta go to the bathroom. You can go to
the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, so bad? All right, you fish up your take.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I'll be right back, uh live but yet editable, but
I'm guaranteeing he won't edit this out. But my point
was going to be Donald was my point. Now I
get distracted by Tim going to the bathroom. Oh, Tim,
(30:42):
I had such a good Donald point and then your
bathroom just was so distracting. Oh that's what I say.
Donald as a individual, like from his perspective, would you
rather sign with let's say the Raiders who have proven
to be terrible and will have to Antonio Pierce is
a bad go, which they're going to replace him if
not this year, next year, or the Giants or who else.
(31:06):
I mean, there's some bad teams. Titans, like the teams
who need quarterbacks this next coming off season are awful.
So if you're Donald, let's say the Raiders are a
good example, do you sign a three year let's say
three years one hundred and fifty million to sign with
the Raiders? It's like, what is your career going to
be the next three years? If you're playing with the Raiders?
(31:28):
Do you trust them to keep you as a good quarterback?
Do you trust them to put the right pieces around you?
All those sorts of things. I certainly wouldn't. So if
the difference is three years one hundred and fifty million
with the Raiders or three years one hundred let's just
say a hundred, it's probably low. But three years one
hundred million from the Vikings, do you give up that
fifty million? I know it's a ton of money, obviously,
(31:49):
So that's an impossible question to answer. Because it's a lot,
but three years, one hundred million, maybe the Vikings are
able to do a bigger guarantee than the Raiders or
something like that. Like why, if you're Donald, why to
sign back with the Vikings when you have this proven season? Right,
depending how this ends, but eleven and two at a minimum,
and then you hope they make a run. And he's
(32:11):
had more success than anywhere else in his entire career,
all these things. How do you not get tempted by,
even though it's a little less money's signing back with
the Vikings to you know, see if you can run
it back only twenty seven. I mean that's most quarterbacks
are hitting their prime at twenty seven, you know, twenty five, nine,
twenty nine, like I said, later than Darnold. So why
(32:34):
don't you run it back with him? And then from
his perspective, run it back with us? Because again this
is easily. You know, he's got nine more touchdown than
he's ever thrown. He's still got less picks than his
first four years. It's nuts, Ho're back. It was a
(32:55):
lead while you were going. I did manage to fill
the whole two minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It sounded like it I could hear are you through
the headphones a little bit? I couldn't quite hear what
you were saying, but I could hear your voice going, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
The summation is simply, if you're Donald, from his perspective,
right off to the Vikings, you should want to sign
it back for as cheap as possible. But if you're Donald,
I was just saying, if the Raiders offer you three
for one hundred and fifty million, let's say, and then
the Vikings offer three for one hundred. Yeah, just making
up numbers. But like you know, if we can offer
a little less from his perspective, how do you not
(33:32):
sign with the Vikings and give up? You know, I
know it's a lot of money to give up. But
you're at a place, a stable place that you've had
the best career year of your career. You have a
coach you trust, an offense with eld off weapons. You're
only twenty seven, so you have prime left. Like most
quarterbacks hit their prime at twenty seven. You know, you
go to the Raiders, good case, Raiders are going to
(33:53):
fire their coach soon. They don't. They have rock bowers
and that's it for weapons. They have no running backs
and no receivers that are worth you been mentioning. Really,
I mean, they're all NFL players, But you know what
I mean on that elite, elite status, you know, why
would you want to go somewhere where you know you're
like you're going to be bad or your team's going
to be bad or both.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Right, you're not going towards a super Bowl or roster
like the Vikings roster.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Right, and if somebody, you know, if somebody that is
super Bowl ready, I don't even know who that would be, right,
but somebody that's elite does want to sign you for
more money than Yeah, of course it makes sense. But
the teams who are going to be interesting, a guy
like Darnold Carolina.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Uh, you know, Raiders, the Giants, Titans, the Giants, maybe
the Browns, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
They write Browns. Maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
But even then, although they're paying the show Watson all
that money, they can't afford to quarterbacks on that salary.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Correct, they can't. Yeah, I don't think they have. There's
no way, you know, so like who is out there?
I mean, yes, the bad teams can give him a
lot of money, but if the Vikings again can get
him on, it'll still be a lot of money, but
a deal, right, a deal quote unquote it's not one
year ten million, but even if it's thirty million a year,
thirty five million a year, I think I still think.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
You canna do it. Yeah, I like that take. I
don't think he will. I think I think it takes
the biggest splash he can get.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
But maybe he goes the anti Kirk Cousins route, right
and passes up a little bit more money to stay
with a winning organization.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, or depending on the offers too, do you just
franchise tag him?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah? I saw that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You know, if if if he doesn't have any offers
that he loves from, like you know, again, maybe the Raiders.
Let's say the Raiders are the only one. It's you know,
three years, one hundred and fifty million. He's not happy
about it. Yeah, Does he just take a franchise take?
Probably not, But like that'd be one year for I
don't know, fifty million almost or something like.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That, right, forty five.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I don't know what the current rate is, but whatever, you.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Know, something like that for a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's the top five average, so whatever that would be.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Right, Yeah, I could still go onto the rams of
Matthew Stafford retires after the year.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right, So that'd be a perfect example if the Rams
offer from a big contract with Stafford retires, that's if
I'm Darnold, I do, right, that's something I would leave
for for sure. You know, that's that's a good example
of a team that's worth leading for if they offer
more money. The Viking draft me a better team, But
like you trust McVay. They got Cooper Cup and Nikua
and Kyen Williams and you know, a defense that with
(36:17):
a few more pieces could be a lead again, you know, so, right, Yeah,
I mean there's a lot of factors that play here we.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Don't know, but but I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right the Jets come after him, You're not going back
to the Jets, Like, there's no way. There's just no
who the team's going to be and for how much
money it will be.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The interesting thing, right, Well, there's gonna be a team
out there that tries to convince him. Yeah, we can
recreate Kevin O'Connell and Jefferson and Addison and Awkinson and
Aaron Jones, and.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Maybe he buys it, maybe he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
But from our perspective, there's really no other team out
there that can recreate those players and coaches on a
single roster.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, be curious to see how it plans out.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
But Jacob, guys evaluate money either too, Right, what's the
difference one fifty Some people that's everything. Some people go, yeah,
I can do plenty in my life with one twenty.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Or you're one Soda and you signed a fifteen year,
seven hundred and sixty five million dollar contract.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Baseball is so weird, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Oh man, that's crazy, Billy Wow. Anyways, Jacob, thank you
for your takes.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, thank you, fan.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Appreciate it you delivered today. Like like the re signing
Donald message that you were going with A was a
You convinced me that. Oh, I mean I wanted the
Vikings to sign him too, But like at the same time,
I'm just on the case that he won't take them.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I contract on the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah that's the concern. And again I get it. I
get it. But they can find a way to get
done right, all.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Right, everyone, thank you for going on this journey with
Jacob and I today.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Jacob, thank you for it all.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thank you, friand
We are continuing our elite reaction from the Minnesota Vikings
victory over the team they played yesterday, the Atlanta Falcons,
where they advanced to eleven and two.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was just gonna just sit there and think about it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Sometimes you just have random breen first.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Obviously, I know they played Kirk Cousins and I talked
about it yesterday a little bit, but it's like, sometimes
you just go through these moments where you just space out.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
So I had to have a filler word in there.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And two, you know, it's not like you're in one.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Here.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
We're just picking up, just getting into it.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Right, We're moving, We're moving to upward trajectory. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
They were kind of like Kirk Cousins is, Wow, this
is terrible. We're kind of like Sam Donald's season, Wow,
this is garbage. You know, some people would start this
podcast over again. But you know what, we're not some people.
We march on, we march forward, and we make adjustments
on the fly and we figure it out.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We're our true authentic selves. And if you don't like it,
suck it all right. Jake Vikings win forty one, Kirk
Cousins zero touchdowns, two picks, zero touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Are now four.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Straight games Sam Darnold five touchdowns, zero interceptions in his
last four games eleven touchdowns, zero interceptions. Your reaction to
the game, your reaction to the quarterback play, just give me,
give me.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Your your your feeling following the win.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I would never actually try to look at look
this seven figured out. Has there ever been a better
free agent class than what the two thousand and you know,
twenty four offseason Minnesota Vikings had. I mean, think about
the players that they signed and the success they're having.
And I'm talking like Vikings history maybe all time. Are
(02:16):
you talking about a quarterback that I was just looking
because I was curious and I get this counts today
or like this counts yesterday? I should say, you know,
he's Darnold sixth in passing yards, seventh in completion percentage,
tied for third and touchdowns QBR. He's not quite as high.
(02:36):
I don't think where did he go doesn't matter? Yeah,
he's like in the middle for QBR. But the point
is you have a top whatever you want to say
about him, right now, he's spending like a top ten quarterback,
no questions. You could argue top five in the league.
You have Aaron Jones who is just again chugging along
(02:56):
and doing his thing. He's tenth in yards with missing
some times. There's some time, you know, some games and stuff.
So he's been efficient with when he's been healthy. Then
Ginkel Grenard just doing great, Gilmour has been good. Even
Shack Griffin yesterday was fine. And it's that's my first
(03:19):
takeaway is that is the best free agent recruiting class
that the Vikings probably I've ever signed. I'm sure somebody
will point out that there was one that was way better,
but just as a whole, because I mean I can
count Brett Fire sending him like, yeah, that was him
alone made that class worth it. But the depth of
how who we signed and how they're fitting this puzzle
(03:39):
is perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So that's a good take. I don't think about that. Yeah,
I mean, that is a good take. I have ben't
even thought about it like that. And you think about
the free agency class that was and is still were
only predicted to win over under six and a half
games by one of the largest betting market websites there are,
(04:04):
and they completely flip that on its head. So I'll
be curious to see now that they are eleven and
two this year, and everyone's going to be after the
season's over, after they win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Obviously, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Curious to see what this free agency class does next
year and who leaves and who comes back, because Cam
Bidam's a free agent and Viral Murphy Junior is a
free agent, and you know there's some good pieces on
our defense this year that will be free agents now
(04:39):
Grenard and Ben Ginkel and I guess Gilmore signed a
one year deal, Shack Griffin signed it one. I'll just
be curious to see who returns next year and who doesn't.
That's how the Vikings replace those guys, because this offseason
they have more money than they've really ever had in
a long time. So yeah, what the Ross reconstruction looks
(05:01):
like this summer going towards next fall, Because when you
going eleven and two to start the season and you're
winning all these games, well, everyone's gonna want to do
it again next year, or if you don't, everyone's gonna
be wondering what's wrong with the Vikings organization, like how
it fell apart?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Like what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Chance for Kevin O'Connell to be fired if they don't
perform the way that they're performing this year, which is
mostly unlikely, and like probably not gonna go eleven and
two to start next year. So I don't know, I'll
just it'll be a fascinating thing to watch.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, well, I mean a couple of things. One, I
got to imagine we're one of the only teams in
NFL history we have two of the top twenty three
quarterbacks in terms of passing yards this year. Wow, because
Daniel Jones. Yeah, I'm just scrolling through and I'm like,
Viking Oh, Dania Jones. Yeah, technically, No, I mean I
(05:58):
feel like this season, you know, I think eventually the
coaches just kind of need to be replaced. As you know,
their voice gets stale and just it happens. Right, It's
not like it's his diss on the coach.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's hard to do what the Steelers do, which is
Mike Tomin's been there for twenty years, and before that
it was Coward for twenty years, and before that was
another guy for twenty years. Right, That's hard to do.
Not likely, But if there's anybody I wish, I hope
the Vikings could do it with I hope it's koc
because this season, I mean, he's proven it his whole
career so far, but this season is like the most
(06:35):
proof you could ever need. And I hope that Vikings
fans are realistic, you know, because like you made the point,
are they going to be eleven to two next year?
Probably not. I mean that's very few teams are, and
very few teams repeat it year after year of the year.
It's just not you know, there's thirty two professional teams
that are all trying to win games, all trying to
get better. It just doesn't happen that you're always elite.
(06:57):
It doesn't happen. So I hope we don't turn on him.
I know I won't, but I hope they don't will
turn on the next Next year we're floating around five hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, they're definitely turning on him.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I know. I'm just by PSA my colleague service, and
please give Kaos the longest, you know, chain of all
time or most grace of all time, because that dude
knows how to coach and knows how to get guys
to buy in. And it's it's fun to watch.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Thirteen and four's rookie year, all those one score wins.
Second season, Kirk Cousins goes down as the Vikings are
finally hitting stride, wins multiple games with Josh Jobbs has
the Vikings like eight and four, and then the season
collapses because Josh Doobbs eventually ran out of gas.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Came back. Yeah, I came came back to life.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And now this season with a fully healthy team, I
love it in two So with a fully healthy roster,
all Kevin O'Connell has done is proven that they're one
of the top five top tens to ball teams in
the league. So that's what that's that's that's the rap
on Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Uh, so far do you think.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
The Vikings won the Kirk Cousins Sam Donald swap.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, I mean that's the facts here. Cousins does have
let's see, can we do some on the fly math? Absolutely,
one ninety seven more yards passing. Cousins does.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Okay, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know Donald has thirteen more touchdowns and five left picks. Yeah,
we won. There was I think it was the Bill
Simmons podcast that I think it was Bill Simmons. I
think Cousins brought it up. He was talking about there's
(08:58):
some sort of stab the nfell And I don't know,
I probably can't find it about like how often or
like quarterback speed throwing, like throwing their passes, Like they're
tracking miles per hour of how hard quarterbacks for their
passes now.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Or they track everything they track every nowadays.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And he said Kirk Cousins was the only quarterback to
not throw a ball over it was like thirty two
miles per hour or something like that, and every other
quarterback in the league had thrown it that hard. Interesting,
but the point being like and you watch them, right,
you could see those, you know, but whether it's his
achilles or just age or probably a combination of the two,
(09:35):
he does not have the same zip on his ball.
I mean you watch some of those like out passes
and those corners that he's throwing, and.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They just kind of wobble in their poppy and.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They're lollipoppy and they just don't you know, He's still accurate,
I mean, he's still throwing it to the right places,
to the right reads even right, it's just those throwers
don't have the same juice on that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Thirteen and four from three year years ago, Kirk did
where it was just singing, zing zing zing. I mean
that was fun to watch because he was so accurate,
made the right reads so often and with good receivers,
which Tuckings have fine receivers. You know, he's zipping it
around and just hitting guys, timing throws, all that sort
of stuff, and he just can't do it to the
level that he's used to. And when you I mean
(10:19):
what the announcers said, I was his third scramble of
the year was yesterday. It was called backup holding, I think,
but right, like, if you're not going to move and
you throw floaters, like what do you what do you
bringing to the table at that point?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
You know, And that's.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Something that Sam Donald adds that Kirk Cousins can't the
long touchdown pass to Justin Jefferson, then you know, I
would say it was the play of the game just
because of what Donald did in the backfield, avoiding defenders,
eluding defenders, and then heaving went down the field as
every single Minnesota Vikings fan is just saying, run for
(10:57):
the first down, run for the first down, run for
the first is down. All Jefferson's wide open and he
walks into the end zone. Is oh yeah, don't listen
to me, Sam donov. Yah, that's something Kirk Cousens could
never do.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And he has one hundred and ninety four rushing yards
Generald does, which I know probably doesn't seem like a lot,
but like, that's quite a bit. That's quite a bit.
I mean, that's think about how many first downs that is.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I mean, that's not nothing, right work.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean again, if you look at kirk Cousins, he
has essentially zero, you know, right, So yeah, I mean
that's keeping plays alive. Scrambling around again, that's broken plays.
You have to cover a guy like Jefferson or Addison
or even Hockinson while you're scrambling around, and you know,
all of a sudden you run into the left, but
then he scrambles rights and Alston Jefferson's run to the right.
(11:48):
To that kind of stuff where it's like unpredictable, you know,
unpredictable situations. You have to guard guys in. I mean
that's really really hard to do, right, Yeah, you don't
have to be Michael Vick out there, but if you
can just run just that little bit and makes such
a huge difference, and that does make it.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
And then and then and they're backbreakers to the defense. Yeah,
you know, you cover everyone down the field. And how
many times did this happen to the Vikings? Even Jay
Cutler as the former Bears quarterback back then you would
I think about him because you don't think of him
as a running quarterback. But there'd be times where the
Vikings coverage would be amazing and they would be covering
(12:27):
the Brandon Marshalls of the world, and somehow Jay Cutler
would find a scene and he would run for ten yards.
It's like, oh, I forgot that he could run, Like
no one expects him to run and off for ten
yards or six yards for a first down, Like that's
all you need to do, so like you need to
run it consistently, but just to have the threat of
(12:49):
being able to do it, I give his team a
first down. That a backbreaker is a huge deal. And
Sam Donald offers that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, no, it's it's we've kind of touched on it
a little bit. And you know, since the beginning of
the season, all right, we kept saying, like, how good
does for the record? I was just thinking to quick
Cousins had zero rushing yards this year.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This year this year? Yeah, what wow, that's.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Crazy twenty five for us last year he peaked at
one hundred and fifty six one.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Of the years with US HM, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He has he has zero twenty carries for zero yards
technically and said.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
K two theories call me insane or sane for these.
It was not coincidence that Kevin O'Connell and Sam Donald
had their career game against Kirk Cousins and the Atlanta Sugans.
I think it was purposeful that Sam Donald was unleashing
(13:55):
the football down the field more than he's ever had
this season through bombs that Addison multiple times, a bomb
to Jefferson. Five touchdowns I careered. It's not like he
threw two touchdowns three touchdowns. This is five touchdowns. I
think if any quarterback is gonna throw five touchdowns in
the league, you have to be extremely intentional about that
(14:17):
guy getting five touchdowns. And it just happens to be
Kirk Cousins, who left because he didn't want the contract
that the Vikings were offering.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think there's a little something there.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Again, I don't have the stats in front of me,
but I know Burrow threw five twice this year, and
I'd be curious. I don't know if anyone else has
this year. So that I mean, it's five touchdowns, right,
like you said, it's rare, and it's intentional. I mean
you got to be but you also have to be firing, right,
you have to be on actually you have to be
on all those sorts of things. I mean, yeah, I
think we forget about they're professional athletes, so it just
(14:51):
kind of seems like there's that disconnect you wonder. I mean,
there's no question in my mind that Darnold was extra motivated,
KOs was extra motivated, even like the Vikings defense right
to go sactly, you know, you know, get interception off him,
that kind of stuff. It plays a role. I mean,
especially in the month. You know, year after year, season
(15:11):
after season, you know, game after game, it can be
kind of a lull a little bit. And I'm sure
they were had a little extra space to him this year.
That's or this week, I should say, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And then my second theory, the Minnesota Vikings offense goes
as much as Sam Darnold targets Jordan Aison. And the
reason why is because you know, justin Jefferson requires all
the attention requires two to three guys shifting towards his side,
covering his area of the field on almost every single play.
(15:44):
And when that happens, Jordan Andison, who's playing a wide
receiver two role and a wide receiver one's body has
one on one.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Coverage, so you gotta target him.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And I think that's the shift that we've seen from
from Sam Donald.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And early in the season he was good.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Mid season, he was tanking because he had tunnel vision
towards Justin Jefferson. And now what we've seen recently is
the ascension of Sam Darnald because he's targeting Jordan Andison
more is getting it more involved, is throwing him the
ball as Jefferson commands two guys three guys towards him.
So now that we're seeing it sounds counterintuitive, you know,
(16:25):
target Addison More over Jefferson, But when you lay it
out there, I think it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean you're just talking about balance, right,
I mean it's like any sport anywhere, Like in basketball,
if you have one absolute stud and no one else
gets involved, you can just key on that stud, right,
you need the second scorer to help alleviate the pressure
for that main scores that they can start scoring. Same
thing with NFL, right, I mean it's if you get
Addison the ball and you prove that he's a legitimate threat.
(16:52):
I mean three touchdowns yesterday, you suddenly can't help Jefferson
quite as much his way because you got to honor
the Addison side of it too. So I mean, that's
that's tough to cover. I will say Jesse Bates had
one of the worst games the Falcon safety that I
maybe noticed from an NFL safety where he kept he
(17:13):
made some poor choices like the one Jefferson touchdown when
Donald scrambled on when you were talking about like he
left his deep safety position to try to run up
and get Donald and just left Jefferson wide open his
corner at the corner was like what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But well, Jefferson was wide open like right away too.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, the replay and before Donald could scramble to his
right and by time Jefferson was it's a broken coverage
immediately and then showed it on tv.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
YEA for perspective. Quarterbacks to throw five touchdowns this season
include Burrow did it twice and Donald once, Jackson Lamar
Jackson once and that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
So yeah, Sam Donald is not in that category. And
did you say Josh Allen was in that list?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, no, no, he had six yesterday, but I think
three were rushing and three were passing, so that's it's
a whole different category. He's wearing fifty some fantasy points
for all you fantasy people out there.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
That m VP conversation is getting interesting, especially after Donald's game.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think it's gonna be Alan just because there.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I think so too. He's the guy this year.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, it's so much of it is narrative and lamars
for Mahomes isn't having having good enough stats this year
for even though the records obviously lead goth is similar,
It's like he's not elite enough. It's kind of like
Josh Allen has been in the mix so many times,
like it's his time and that are good. Don't get
(18:44):
me wrong. I mean he's like, you know, obviously he's
like worthy of it.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
The MVP ble bothers me like because of that reason.
You know, it's like it's such a reputation award. It
just goes to the player that they think deserves it. Now,
like every sport, not just the NFL, like NBA Michael
Jordan should have won MVP every year he was in
the league from nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety eight.
Lebron James the same thing. He should have won MVP
(19:12):
for like ten straight years. Of course they got to
spread it around, give it to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, like Russell Westbrook winning it when he had the
triple double year. That wasn't even Russell's best year, the
Westbrook Westbrook's best year, but it was like, oh, he's
so awesome getting.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
A triple double, right, even though he's shooting like twenty
eight percent from the field.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, all right, I don't know. I mean, Allen is
he's eleventh in yards, twenty three touchdowns, only five picks,
and then obviously the rushing is where his he's the
difference maker.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The next question, and I think we have to think
deeper about this question. Now that the Vikings are eleven
and two, how much are you buying them as Super
Bowl contenders? Because you look at the record eleven and two,
and you must look deeper than the record to think
that they're not Super Bowl contenders at this point. Because
(20:05):
eleven and two one game behind the Detroit Lions. Everything
would point towards the Vikings being super Bowl contenders. Donald
twenty eight touchdowns, ten picks. Everything's coming into life right
now for the Vikings offense, a late defense. On paper,
everything is pointing towards super Bowl contenders. The only thing
(20:27):
that would make us think that they're not super Bowl
contenders is a theory of Sam Donald not being able
to perform at this level in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm, I'm all the way bout in.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
You're about it.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I got a stake on Donald Island. Yeah, it's we're
all in.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Now, it doesn't mean I think they're going to obviously,
But just like when you're listing the teams that realistically
could you go Lions yes, uh, Eagles yes, and then
you're going Vikings yes. I mean that's that they're the
third best team and there's no ifans or butts about it. So,
I mean, if you look at their path, they probably
(21:13):
have to go to the worst. You know, the line schedule,
they have a couple of tricky ones.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Like I do they got the Bills next week.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
The Bills next week, and if all of a sudden,
the Bills kind of need to win that to stay
with the one seed race, so they're going to be
going out and so you know, you never know, it
could get the division. But assuming we end up second
the division, you know you've gotta go on the road
to the fourth best division winner, probably the Bucks or
the Falcons again maybe mm hm. You know, it looks
(21:42):
like the NFC West will have somebody that's a little
bit better than them, like terms of the Rams or
the seahawksmen end up with a better record. So you know,
so you have to win away game, which is not
easy to do no matter who you're playing in the playoffs.
But then after but.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Then that means you avoid Detroit second round.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Then you're avoiding Detroit in the second round.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You got more likely, that's true.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, that's hard to our favorite would never beat Philly
on the road.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
That's tough.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So that's the biggest hinderance is that they're not going
to have home field simply because their division.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But they still could if they will, if they beat
Green Bay at home, beat the Packers at home, and
basically Week seventeen or Week eighteen versus Detroit could be
for that divisional one seed.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yep, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And I would be interested to know, the tie breakers
end up being in terms of, like we both end
up you know, what are we right now? We're loving
in two two. So if we're going in and we
each have two losses, let's say, you know, the lines
dropped next week, you know, and we split so that
we both have or you know whatever. The point is
that we both.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Saw the same record, right, yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know, when we're one and one against each other,
I wonder I haven't paid attention to I guess it's
usually division record, mm hmm whatever, But anyway, yeah, no,
it should be exciting fish And again I'm boughten. They
could make a run. They have a good enough defense,
their offense is balanced enough, you know, run the ball,
passing the ball. Donald has played in some big games
(23:14):
and not crumbled for the most part. Like he's good
enough to get it done. Doesn't mean he will, doesn't
mean I've been on it. But they at least they're
in that conversation, which is all that.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Right, right, they're in the conversation right now. And and
you know, for.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
The longest time I've said that they are not Super
Bowl condenders, just based on the theory that Sam Donald
will melt eventually, and then kind of when it comes
to playoff time, you're in a new spotlight and it's
a bigger, bigger, bigger moment, Like the pressure is huge.
He's never been in the playoffs before besides a backup.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
On the Niners.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And that's where I keep on struggling because paper everything
looks good. But you know what, I'm in The Minnesota
Vikings are Super Bowl contenders right now at eleven and two.
And I'm very cautious about this statement because I feel
like anytime it makes statements like this, then the Vikings
all of a sudden go crashing down.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
They lose the best player to injury.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
They they lose against the Bears, they lose against Seattle,
they lose against Green Bay. They finished the season with
four or five straight losses. And you know, before the
season I said they were five and twelve. They doubled
more than double that record. Yeah I think five and twelve. Yeah,
well they've flipped that on it. Well, now that I'm
going in the reverse way, I'm scared that they're going
(24:36):
to reverse the other way. So I'm not a Jinksky,
but it happened before.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You look at the odds, there's six, there's six. Can
you name this? Five teams ahead of them?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Chief Spills, Chief Spills, Lion's Eagles, Lions Eagles. Hmmm, let
me run through my Pittsburgh Rivers.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
No, they're the students are eighth.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
For the record, the Lions are first.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Okay, which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I mean, that's it, but just it's still crazy to
see that and actually process it that the Lions are first.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Baltimore Ravens there you go, okay, and the rich tricky
team this year because everyone loves the Ravens. There ain't five.
I know they're putting up as like, oh, Derrick Henry
and Lamar Jackson, that duo is unstoppable.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There ain't five.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, it is kind of weird. Yeah, so they got
Ravens probably.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
But they got a toss game at the Giants next week.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, in the playoff game though, when you have Lamar
running around like true, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It is all right.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Now, maybe end with this year and this year something else.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
No, go ahead, I.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Don't know, and obviously we're not there. We don't know.
Whatever I report. Yesterday's Chefty on the ESPN or something said,
the Vikings and Donald have not had any long term
conversations on conversations, Yeah, which makes sense. I mean, I
get you're not not something going to try to worry
about in the middle of it a good season, but yeah,
(26:20):
I feel like the Vikings are going to be if
they don't sign Donald, I feel like that'll be a
huge mistake.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Really wow.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Unless he is like astronomically expensive.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
He's going to be astronomically expensive, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
But I'm like, even if he's just expensive, I think
you have to sign him.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Really. I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
If he's like if someone pays him like he's Kirk
Cousins or like he's you know, any any of the
top ten guys, then then you can't. But he's going
to be like expensive for us in terms of like, yeah,
it's a lot more than we were expecting, but he's
still in that ten to fifteenth highest paid quarterback range
(27:01):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But even with McCarthy on the roster, I.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Think, even with McCarthy on the roster, I just don't
think you can what's the old phrase, like one of
the hand is worth two in the bush, right, we
can say what we want about, you know, looking at
JJ and what we might have and what he could
be and all these things, but when you have a
guy that's literally proving it and saying, like showing you
(27:26):
with his play, I am a top five to top
ten quarterback depending, how do you not to your point
not bring that back?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's a risky This is a decision that gets people fired.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, it is for everybody, right, bring back? If you
go with JJ, he's awful next year, then so you
know hot.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
See immediately yep, especially if Darnold goes out and has
a successful run with another team. If he fails with
another team, I think you're okay. And if he goes
to the Raiders and sucks, so it's like, well, you
know we got good a year out of them, and yeah, yeah,
that's a good take.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
The risk forward two, Like if Donald is bad next year,
you have JJ, right, Like if Donald regresses, yeah, you
pay a lot of money in that part will stink,
but you can still switch, Like you can still adjust.
If JJ's bad, you got nothing. You got maybe Daniel
Jones if that's who they resigned, the backup. But you
know what I mean, Like it's just people get so
(28:27):
caught up, and I know we spent a first round
pick and I know he's supposed to be the future,
and he hopefully still will be at some point, whether
that's next year, ends up being three years from now.
But if you can get Donald on a three year
deal for even if it's three years one hundred and
I don't know, one hundred and twenty hundred, something like that,
(28:49):
and just you know, see if he's got this magic
for another couple of years and then JJ can come in,
you know, maybe two years from now, or even if
it ends up being three years, because Donald is playing
at such an elite level, you have to keep playing.
You know. It's just the idea of what could be
get people so excited.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And I get it, this is true.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You don't know, Hey, J we anticipation, patient, like, how
what's he going to be like.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Quarterbacks surround the team? Yeah, and I get it again,
it is exciting.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But at the end of the day, you have a
guy who literally is showing you that he's him as
the kids today nowadays.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's true, it's true. That's a good take. I appreciate
that take.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, And because we've talked about right week one, we're like,
how or no week one probably, but a few weeks
in when Donald's winning. We're like, at one point, like,
what does Donald have to do for us to resign?
Because at being the season is like no matter what happens,
you know, and we can't say, well, if they you know,
ten wins, if they get twelve wins, if they playoffs
(29:52):
and make a run, like, what when do you decide
to sign him? I mean, what more does Donald have
to show? Ye? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The problem is his numbers getting bigger and bigger, right, yeah, yeah,
So anyway, I love that take, and I'm gonna have
to wrap up the podcast right now, but it's a
great take if.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You're Donald too, though. Here is just you know, you
think about from his perspective, and this will be a pooh,
you gotta go to the bathroom. You can go to
the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, so bad? All right, you fish up your take.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I'll be right back, uh live but yet editable, but
I'm guaranteeing he won't edit this out. But my point
was going to be Donald was my point. Now I
get distracted by Tim going to the bathroom. Oh, Tim,
(30:42):
I had such a good Donald point and then your
bathroom just was so distracting. Oh that's what I say.
Donald as a individual, like from his perspective, would you
rather sign with let's say the Raiders who have proven
to be terrible and will have to Antonio Pierce is
a bad go, which they're going to replace him if
not this year, next year, or the Giants or who else.
(31:06):
I mean, there's some bad teams. Titans, like the teams
who need quarterbacks this next coming off season are awful.
So if you're Donald, let's say the Raiders are a
good example, do you sign a three year let's say
three years one hundred and fifty million to sign with
the Raiders? It's like, what is your career going to
be the next three years? If you're playing with the Raiders?
(31:28):
Do you trust them to keep you as a good quarterback?
Do you trust them to put the right pieces around you?
All those sorts of things. I certainly wouldn't. So if
the difference is three years one hundred and fifty million
with the Raiders or three years one hundred let's just
say a hundred, it's probably low. But three years one
hundred million from the Vikings, do you give up that
fifty million? I know it's a ton of money, obviously,
(31:49):
So that's an impossible question to answer. Because it's a lot,
but three years, one hundred million, maybe the Vikings are
able to do a bigger guarantee than the Raiders or
something like that. Like why, if you're Donald, why to
sign back with the Vikings when you have this proven season? Right,
depending how this ends, but eleven and two at a minimum,
and then you hope they make a run. And he's
(32:11):
had more success than anywhere else in his entire career,
all these things. How do you not get tempted by,
even though it's a little less money's signing back with
the Vikings to you know, see if you can run
it back only twenty seven. I mean that's most quarterbacks
are hitting their prime at twenty seven, you know, twenty five, nine,
twenty nine, like I said, later than Darnold. So why
(32:34):
don't you run it back with him? And then from
his perspective, run it back with us? Because again this
is easily. You know, he's got nine more touchdown than
he's ever thrown. He's still got less picks than his
first four years. It's nuts, Ho're back. It was a
(32:55):
lead while you were going. I did manage to fill
the whole two minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It sounded like it I could hear are you through
the headphones a little bit? I couldn't quite hear what
you were saying, but I could hear your voice going, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
The summation is simply, if you're Donald, from his perspective,
right off to the Vikings, you should want to sign
it back for as cheap as possible. But if you're Donald,
I was just saying, if the Raiders offer you three
for one hundred and fifty million, let's say, and then
the Vikings offer three for one hundred. Yeah, just making
up numbers. But like you know, if we can offer
a little less from his perspective, how do you not
(33:32):
sign with the Vikings and give up? You know, I
know it's a lot of money to give up. But
you're at a place, a stable place that you've had
the best career year of your career. You have a
coach you trust, an offense with eld off weapons. You're
only twenty seven, so you have prime left. Like most
quarterbacks hit their prime at twenty seven. You know, you
go to the Raiders, good case, Raiders are going to
(33:53):
fire their coach soon. They don't. They have rock bowers
and that's it for weapons. They have no running backs
and no receivers that are worth you been mentioning. Really,
I mean, they're all NFL players, But you know what
I mean on that elite, elite status, you know, why
would you want to go somewhere where you know you're
like you're going to be bad or your team's going
to be bad or both.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Right, you're not going towards a super Bowl or roster
like the Vikings roster.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Right, and if somebody, you know, if somebody that is
super Bowl ready, I don't even know who that would be, right,
but somebody that's elite does want to sign you for
more money than Yeah, of course it makes sense. But
the teams who are going to be interesting, a guy
like Darnold Carolina.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Uh, you know, Raiders, the Giants, Titans, the Giants, maybe
the Browns, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
They write Browns. Maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
But even then, although they're paying the show Watson all
that money, they can't afford to quarterbacks on that salary.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Correct, they can't. Yeah, I don't think they have. There's
no way, you know, so like who is out there?
I mean, yes, the bad teams can give him a
lot of money, but if the Vikings again can get
him on, it'll still be a lot of money, but
a deal, right, a deal quote unquote it's not one
year ten million, but even if it's thirty million a year,
thirty five million a year, I think I still think.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
You canna do it. Yeah, I like that take. I
don't think he will. I think I think it takes
the biggest splash he can get.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
But maybe he goes the anti Kirk Cousins route, right
and passes up a little bit more money to stay
with a winning organization.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, or depending on the offers too, do you just
franchise tag him?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah? I saw that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You know, if if if he doesn't have any offers
that he loves from, like you know, again, maybe the Raiders.
Let's say the Raiders are the only one. It's you know,
three years, one hundred and fifty million. He's not happy
about it. Yeah, Does he just take a franchise take?
Probably not, But like that'd be one year for I
don't know, fifty million almost or something like.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That, right, forty five.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I don't know what the current rate is, but whatever, you.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Know, something like that for a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's the top five average, so whatever that would be.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Right, Yeah, I could still go onto the rams of
Matthew Stafford retires after the year.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right, So that'd be a perfect example if the Rams
offer from a big contract with Stafford retires, that's if
I'm Darnold, I do, right, that's something I would leave
for for sure. You know, that's that's a good example
of a team that's worth leading for if they offer
more money. The Viking draft me a better team, But
like you trust McVay. They got Cooper Cup and Nikua
and Kyen Williams and you know, a defense that with
(36:17):
a few more pieces could be a lead again, you know, so, right, Yeah,
I mean there's a lot of factors that play here we.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Don't know, but but I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right the Jets come after him, You're not going back
to the Jets, Like, there's no way. There's just no
who the team's going to be and for how much
money it will be.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The interesting thing, right, Well, there's gonna be a team
out there that tries to convince him. Yeah, we can
recreate Kevin O'Connell and Jefferson and Addison and Awkinson and
Aaron Jones, and.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Maybe he buys it, maybe he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
But from our perspective, there's really no other team out
there that can recreate those players and coaches on a
single roster.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, be curious to see how it plans out.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
But Jacob, guys evaluate money either too, Right, what's the
difference one fifty Some people that's everything. Some people go, yeah,
I can do plenty in my life with one twenty.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Or you're one Soda and you signed a fifteen year,
seven hundred and sixty five million dollar contract.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Baseball is so weird, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Oh man, that's crazy, Billy Wow. Anyways, Jacob, thank you
for your takes.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, thank you, fan.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Appreciate it you delivered today. Like like the re signing
Donald message that you were going with A was a
You convinced me that. Oh, I mean I wanted the
Vikings to sign him too, But like at the same time,
I'm just on the case that he won't take them.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I contract on the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah that's the concern. And again I get it. I
get it. But they can find a way to get
done right, all.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Right, everyone, thank you for going on this journey with
Jacob and I today.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Jacob, thank you for it all.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thank you, friand
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