Full Show: A pregnant Cassie provides graphic testimony in Diddy trial. Cooper Flagg's NBA update.

Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
What's up, everybody. Welcome to the latest edition of The
stephen A. Smith Show, coming at you as I love
to do at the very least three times a week
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(00:34):
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And while you're doing that, please make sure to take
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(00:57):
Just go straight shoot book dot com and get yourself
a copy. Once again, straight you Book dot com to
get yourself copied. Got a lot of stuff to get into, politics, sports,
the playoffs, Pete Rose. I mean, the list just goes
on and on and on. And what does Pete Rose
and Donald Trump? How are they connected. I'll tell you
in a little bit, but not before I get to

(01:18):
the obvious topic of discussion that cannot be avoided.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
We're gonna get started right here.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
In New York City and the federal sex trafficking and
racketeering trial against Sean D. D.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Combs.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
It was an emotional day in court as Cassie Ventura,
Comb's ex girlfriend and former bad boy protege, took the
stand and detailed their ten year relationship. It was testimony
filled with allegations of physical abuse and control that included
drug fueled sexual encounters called freak offs with male escorts.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Under Comb's direction.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Cassie told the jury that Combs would often beat her,
leaving her with black eyes and bruises all over her body.
Her lawsuit, filed in twenty twenty three, became the framework
for the government's case against P Diddy. Cassie testified that
her career as an artist ultimately became stifled because she
spent most of her time for filling Combe's sexual fantasies.

(02:14):
Cassie is back on the stand today with more details
of their relationship. Defense attorneys for did he maintain the
sexual encounters between he and Cassie were consensual. This is
just my opinion. I don't give it. I don't give it,
not even a little bit. When you hear the details

(02:36):
that we heard. Good luck with the defense deciphering the
difference between sex trafficking and racketeering as opposed to domestic
abuse and thinking that's going to win them a jury.
I find it very difficult to believe that human beings
are going to be able to disassociate themselves from the

(02:59):
criminal kind of behavior.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
She's alleged he has done.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
By the way, there is video of it, and I
don't know what level of access is going to be
given to it, but it's spanning about fifteen minutes. Remember
when you saw him running down the hallway after her,
half butt naked with a tower wrapped around him. Remember
that right there? Remember that, Remember when he dragged her

(03:26):
and threw it to the ground and kicked her. Apparently
we only saw a couple of minutes, but that scene
took place for about fifteen minutes, and now reportedly anyway
it's going to be released if it hasn't already for
all to see.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I don't know whether that's true or not.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I just know that's very, very bad as it pertains
the domestic violence not being a federal con that's more
of a state crime. Good luck with convincing the jury
of that. See my man Christen here, I see my
man gay in there. I see my man Rusting here.
I got a bunch of people there. Jennifer's in the
control room. How are you going to be able to

(04:07):
hear evidence of black eyes, bruises over the body, and
urine nation on her and in.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Her and disassociate that.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
By saying, well, that's not really sex trafficking, that's not
really racketeering, that's just domestic violence.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I'm gonna let him off. I don't know about
that job.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I understand legally, if you're on a jury, that's what
you're supposed to do. I don't know if you're going
to convince jurors to do that. So in my opinion,
it looks very, very very bad for Diddy. It really
really does, especially since the defense has all but said, hey,

(05:05):
we understand his behavior was reprehensible, but that doesn't mean
he's guilty of these.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Two specific federal crimes. I don't know how you do that.
I just don't. But that's just me coming up, joining
me to discuss the trial.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Seeing that legal analyst extraordinaire, the one and only Elie
Honing up next right here with steven A.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
The steven A Smiths show back with more.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
In a minute. All right, folks, and need you all
to stop what you're doing and listen up. You know
I love this time of year.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Right the NBA.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
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My beloved New York Knicks handled their business at Madison
Square Guarden Monday night and now lead the series three
to one against the reigning defending NBA champion Boston Celtics.
Can they close it out in Boston tonight? I'm giving

(06:31):
you my picks for tonight's game, so let's get right
to it. First up, will Jalen Brunton score more or
less than twenty seven and a half points. I'm going
with less than this game. I think Boston's gonna answer
the call. I think the Knicks are gonna need energize
the bunnies all around Jalen Brunton in order to come
out on top with this particular matchup. Okay, I don't
think it's gonna require him for him to go ballistic.

(06:52):
I'm gonna go with Lester on this one. Next up,
will Bequel Bridges scored more less than fourteen and a
half points the way he's been shooting, particularly at mid
range jumper over the last five quarters or so, I'm
gonna go with more to the answer to that question,
will Jaylen Brown score more or less than twenty.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Five and a half points.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
The answer is more, yes, because he damn well better.
Jason Tatum's out, He's gone. It's all for Here's a
three hundred and four million dollar man. I believe in
Jaylen Brown. But you got to show me, Tony. You
better drop over twenty five and a half points. Hell,
you better drop over thirty five and a half points.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going with more. And finally, will.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Derek White score more or less than eighteen and a
half points?

Speaker 1 (07:28):
The brother can shoot the basketball, He'll get his opportunities
to be open and launch some shots because Jaylen Brown's
gonna create some opportunities for him and the others as well.
I think the answer to this question is more and well,
so let's recap. That's less for Jalen Brunton, more for
Michal Bridges, more for Jalen Brown, more for Derek White.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
That's where I'm coming from.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Good prize picks app and check out the Steven A.
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That's all I got to say about that. Now I
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the one and only Nav greenners in the house.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Welcome to the show. Now, how you doing, man, I'm
going on, steven A. Appreciate you, my man, thanks for
taking time.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I understand you have a prize Pick three pick lineup
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Please tell me about that. What's your lineup?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
No?

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For sure?

Speaker 5 (08:18):
I like og with the under on the rebounds this season.
I mean, this series ain't really been getting rebounds. He's been,
you know, dominating in other other areas. I like who
else I put down for the Knicks game. I like,
uh Al Wharfer points, rebounds and assists less than twenty

(08:39):
and a half. Okay, I think I think you get
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Speaker 4 (08:44):
They running up and down the court.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
On the man, and they just it's like they got
a game plan for him. And I did the last
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half rebound.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, I ain't saying that that's the almost the best
best right there? With Kamenka, I don't know what the
hell is going on with him. We talked about that
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And where can people find that?

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They can find that on prize packs.

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Man, you gotta follow that community play join that, you
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Speaker 2 (09:18):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. Now,
I know you're in Atlanta, Natives. The Hawks are out
of it. How you feeling about them these days? I
mean they're out of it their home watching the New
York next. I mean that that needs to be said.
So I want to know how you feel about the
Hawks real quick, because I want to I know it's nostallgi,
I want to give you that, but I also want
to know who you think is gonna win it all

(09:38):
at this point in time.

Speaker 5 (09:41):
Right now in Atlanta, like even if we weren't in
the playoffs, we didn't have no finals hopes, I would say,
you know, Trey Young, we put the whole team on him.
But in Atlanta right now, it seems like all the
New Yorkers are coming out of hiding wherever they were.
You're ready to celebrate. You didn't even stop talking right now.

(10:01):
I didn't know there was so many New Yorkers still
in that limb.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
You got to be kidding me.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
I mean, damned everybody from New York went down to Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Who are you talking about?

Speaker 5 (10:09):
But they've been quiet for a long time. They've been
quiet for a long time since the giant's going. We
ain't hurt thathing from him.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, we were coming out of the wold work.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
But then what happened as Trey Young gave it to
us a couple of years ago, and you know, we
we we we.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
We a little bit leery and we went in to hide.
And I give you that, I'll give you that, but
we out that ship.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Look dice on the on the Madison Square Guarden Court.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Right, he did that. But he's home now and we're
still playing. So that's what it is. Last question for you.
I want to get to your act The resume, my man.
It includes work in the Peacock series, Fight Night, the
Million Dollar Heights with Kevin Hard as well. You got
a new film coming out later this month. Tell me
about that real quick.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
With Jeremy Pargo. He was in the league in the NBA.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
He got into acting and he produced a movie called
Final Play. It got Ernestine Morrison in there, Hazel Renee,
which is Draymond Green's white man. It's a it's a dope,
it's a dope project.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Wow. Or what role you playing in it?

Speaker 5 (11:07):
Bro I played one of his homeboys, trying to you know,
get his mind right after retiring from the NBA.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Okay, all right, all right, he ain't living in Atlanta
and hot, and so you didn't have to you didn't
have to work that hard to help.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Him, right, Yeah, he was out in the open.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
What about your podcast?

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Man out here? That's going well? For you to tell
our audience about that?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Real quick?

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Oh, man broke and play podcast.

Speaker 5 (11:30):
We do what you do, Stephen, Ay, but we do
it at a more different type of scale where we're
not politically correct, you know. Yeah, so we may say
some words that you can't use on there. So a
lot of people, you know, they tune in to just
hear I take and I ain't never played ball, but
on Prize Pigs, I feel like if I put you

(11:50):
in my lineup and you don't do what it takes
I to be able to talk on my podcast about
your misshap, you.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Know what, listen prop to y'all. I ain't hating on that. Listen.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
If y'all were in Corporate America for thirty plus years,
y'all will have to be.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
PC two halftime.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
You know, got to watch what I mean every day.
I mean, I'm on the microscope everywhere I go, so
I just make sure the cameras ain't rolling before I
vibe with y'all on that level.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
But that's why we're in two different tacks.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
I got you, bo, I appreciate you, man. I've green
in the house, man, Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Man.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
We'll catch up later, right all.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
Right, for sure, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Joining me now to discuss the trial is CNN Legal
analystics short and it Ellie honeg Ellie, always good.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
To always good to see you. Let's get right to it.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I mean, I know Cassie is back on the stand today,
but let's talk about yesterday. What were your impressions of
what we heard in court from Cassie herself yesterday.

Speaker 6 (12:48):
I think she was doing what prosecutors need her to do, which,
first of all, Stephen, is to come across as credible,
to come across as sympathetic, to tell her story, to
put the jury in her shoes. Remember, in a trial
setting like this, the witness is hitting feet away from.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
The jury five to ten feet. She is right there.
And it sounds to.

Speaker 6 (13:06):
Me from talking to people in the courtroom and reading
her testimony, that what she talked about was clear. I
think she detailed some really horrific experiences she went through,
and I think she came off as credible. She didn't
give the sense that she was stretching or going out
of her way to say things that were damaging to
Sean Comb. So I think yesterday at the if I
was the prosecutor at the end of the day yesterday,

(13:27):
I would have said, good, good start, we got a
long ways to go though.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
One of the things that and I hate bringing this up.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
I certainly am not trying to just harm her in
any way. I mean, I just want to say when
she gave the details and then she talked about being
urinated in her mouth, I just I was so appalled,
so taken aback by it. I know most I can't
imagine most human beings would feel any differently than me.

(13:56):
That doesn't necessarily equate to sex trafficking and racketeering, or say,
but how damaging is that in a case such of
this nature against P Diddy?

Speaker 6 (14:06):
Well, it's obviously visceral and revolting testimony for the reasons
you said, Steven, and I think it actually does raise that.

Speaker 7 (14:13):
Question, which is was this voluntary?

Speaker 6 (14:16):
Because that's ultimately what the defense is going to be
And when you talk about acts like that that are
so extreme, it becomes harder and hard to agree that
something like that, what you just talked about, would be
done voluntarily. But you raise a really important point, and
this is what the defense argued in its opening statement.
And by the way, I thought this was an excellent
opening statement by the defense. Sometimes you'll see defense layers

(14:39):
get up there and say everything you'll hear from the
prosecution is bs. Their star witness is a liar, they
have bad motives. That's not what the defense did here.
I think they very smartly said. I'm paraphrasing here, but
they said he's not a good guy. He's done really
bad things. He had a drug problem, he was domestically
abusive of Cassie. However, the defense argued that is not

(15:02):
what he's charged with, and they're right. This is not
a domestic violence case, this is not an assault case.
It is a federal racketeering, conspiracy and sex trafficking case,
and so I think a big part of the defense
and we'll see this. I think when Cassie gets cross examined,
probably late in the day on Wednesday.

Speaker 7 (15:20):
Is you don't have to believe she's a full liar,
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

Speaker 6 (15:25):
Even if what she says is true, this relationship, the
defense will argue was consensual and it does not make
Sean Combs a federal racketeer.

Speaker 7 (15:32):
I thought they did a really effective job of articulating.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
But Ellie, what about the notion that is twelve jurors?

Speaker 4 (15:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
It is twelve jurors, is six alternates.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
They're human beings, and there is such a thing as
hearing about acts, hearing about an individual that's so repulsive,
so heinous, that you find yourself wanting to give him
even if the charges don't necessarily correlate with what you're hearing.
We're talking sex trafficking and racketeering.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
But you might have.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
People up there that says, how don't give a damn
about the specifics one hundred charges.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
His behind need to be in jail. How do you
wore that off? If you're the defense.

Speaker 7 (16:08):
One that is a dynamic in the court.

Speaker 6 (16:10):
You know, I practiced in that courthouse for much of
my career in the Southern District of New York. People
have this misconception that the jury is sort of this monolith.
All it is is twelve regular people, twelve people from
Manhattan and the Bronx, maybe Westchepter County. They are subject
to emotion like anyone else. And yeah, if you're the prosecution,
you do want to inflame the jury. There's limits, but

(16:32):
you want to show them that video. You want them
hating him, you want them being disgusted. And I think
what the trick is the difficulty for the defense layers
is you have to prevail upon the jury say, look,
you are not here to rule with your emotions or
your heart. You are not even here to rule on
whether he's a good person or a horrible person. You
are here to rule on whether the prosecution has proved

(16:55):
the specific federal crimes they've charged beyond a reasonable doubt. Now,
by the way, I don't think the prosecution is going
to be unable to prove its charges, but it is
important to note that the charges are more dramatic and
sort of more far flung than just domestic violence and
just assault. They have to show, essentially that Shawancomb's presided
over a criminal organization that had structures and procedures in

(17:20):
order to promote and protect his career.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Most of what was heard yesterday was about sex, drug use,
domestic violence, as you just reiterated, but all of those essentially,
especially the last the LATTA is a.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
State crime, by the way, but this is a federal case.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Has the prosecution made the connection to the federal charges
of sex trafficking and racketeering yet in your eyes?

Speaker 7 (17:40):
So no, not yet.

Speaker 6 (17:41):
I mean they're still early in their case, but I
think they'll get there. The racketeering laws, and I used
to use these laws charge these laws all the time
are very broad and what they allow federal prosecutors to do,
and again this is a federal prosecuecution, is to pull
in certain things that would otherwise be state crimes. So
for example, domestic violence or just an assault like we
see on that video that would ordinarily not be a

(18:03):
federal crime, but you can bring it into a federal
court as evidence of the racketeering enterprise. And so yeah,
the allegation here is the racketeering enterprise committed a bunch
of different crimes including not just sexual assault and interstate prostitution,
but gun possession and drug use and obstruction. And I'll
tell you one other interesting feature of the charge here, Steven,
Racketeering definitionally means an organization, a group of people. I

(18:28):
used to charge twenty five person racketeering cases. I was
doing mob cases, so it was more of a traditional setup.
Sean Combs is alleged to be a racketeering enterprise of one.
There are other participants alluded to, but he's the only
person who's ever indicted, is the only person sitting at
that defense table. And look for his defense team to say,
they're overkilling this. They're telling you the.

Speaker 7 (18:49):
Man was a one man criminal enterprise.

Speaker 6 (18:51):
And I think prosecutors are going to respond saying, you bet,
that is what we're saying.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
You know, Cassie Venturs on the stand yesterday and today,
we've seen images footage of her being beat We've heard
about her being urinated on. She's an expectant mother, she's
about to give birth, she's nine months pregnant. What kind
of role, what imagery she provided with being pregnant do

(19:19):
you think that could potentially have on a jury, particularly
considering her testimony at this moment in time.

Speaker 6 (19:25):
I think that absolutely matters. I take a very humanistic
view of trials. I think they're all about the people
and the personalities that are there in the courtroom. And
you know, it's interesting because the defense wanted to prohibit
her from walking in. Normally, the way it works is
the door opens at the back of the courthouse and
the witness walks right down the middle of the aisle,
right past the jurors. And the defense said, no, judge,

(19:46):
let's get her seated first, so she doesn't have to
do that so it's less obvious that she's pregnant, and
the judge denied that.

Speaker 7 (19:51):
The judge said, no, we're going to treat her like
any other way.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
So they obviously know she is very, you know, far
along in her pregnancy.

Speaker 7 (19:58):
They can see it.

Speaker 6 (19:59):
She's sitting in front of them, and of course that
elicits some degree of sympathy.

Speaker 7 (20:04):
It humanizes her.

Speaker 6 (20:05):
It reminds them that she is a much She already
has a mother, but she's a mother to be, And
you have to take that into consideration if you're the
defense cross examining her. Now, first of all, it's going
to be a female defense lawyer who cross examines her.
I mean, if they send a male to cross examined her,
that is malpractice. And you know you have to go
after the prosecution's key witness. You have to be pointed

(20:27):
and aggressive. But you also don't want to come across
as being domineering or a bully. And so I think
the fact that she's in her third trimester would also
play in there.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Ellie, help me out here, I mean, just just play
with me for a little bit here. Why would it
be malpracticed to I mean, for obvious, I know the answer,
but I want you to articulate it to the audience.
Why would it be malpracticed to send a male attorney
up there to question Cassie Ventura. What if it were
an absolutely brilliant attorney.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Who was suave, who know how to be very very
charming to a jury, etc.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Why would it be male practice to send a male
attorney up there to question at Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Educate our audience.

Speaker 7 (21:09):
A lot of it's just an appearance issue.

Speaker 6 (21:10):
Look, this case is about a male abusing females, and
so look, cross examination could get pointed, and you don't
want to be in a position where the jury's watching
a male defense lawyer, you know, not literally, but figuratively
beat up on a very pregnant female witness slash victim.
So I think there's a sensitivity there also. Look, there

(21:33):
may need to be cross examination about some of the
nuances and details of the sexual activity the freak offs. Look,
there was testimony, for example, Cassie Ventura testified that at
times she was made to do these freak offs while
she was menstruating. And so those are questions that are
much more comfortably asked by a female of a female

(21:54):
than a male of a female.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And my room is saying this, Ellie, does this sound
even worse than R Kelly?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Am wrong?

Speaker 6 (22:01):
It's you know, it's it's interesting how you look at it.
I mean, R Kelly, I think there was probably more violence.
I mean, I know we have the videotape in this case.
The number of victims I think was more with R.

Speaker 7 (22:13):
Kelly. But boy, the.

Speaker 6 (22:16):
Sort of full core domination of these women mentally, physically, sexually,
career wise in the Sean Combs case, I think is
in a different category.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Last question for you, Ellie.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Cassie's husband, I'm being told he may be called to
testify in this trial, Yet he was in court on Monday.
First of all, is that ordinary? Is that something that's typical.
I don't know whether or not that is. And what
do you think about the notion of him giving testimony
in all of this?

Speaker 6 (22:45):
So it's interesting because normally, if somebody is a potential witness,
they're supposed to be what we call sequestered, meaning they're
not supposed to be in the courtroom because you don't
want witness A seeing what witness B is saying, because
they might conform their testimony to be consistent or to
contradict that. So ordinarily, whichever side is thinking of calling
a witness should make sure that that witness is not

(23:07):
in the courtroom while other witnesses are testifying. If he
is called, look, you know, if either side needs him
to come to the stand, they will subpoena him.

Speaker 7 (23:17):
He will have to take the stand. I'm not sure
what his relevance would be.

Speaker 6 (23:21):
It could be that the defense thinks he undercuts some
aspects of Cassidy's testimony, maybe she's had conversations with him
that contradict things she said on the stand. Or on
the other hand, maybe he supports some of the things
she said maybe he met her at a time when
she made certain statements to him that could be relevant now,
So that would be a risky move, I think for
either side.

Speaker 7 (23:41):
But you know, these are high.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
Stakes scenarios, stephen A, and sometimes you have to make
tricky calls.

Speaker 7 (23:46):
So we'll see this.

Speaker 6 (23:47):
This reminds me of being back there at the prosecutor's
office and are we happy with what we got or
do we need to roll the dice here on another witness.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Absolute last question, if you're the defense team, how are
you feeling today?

Speaker 6 (23:59):
I'm feeling okay thus far, because if I'm the defense team,
my strategy is, you can believe Cassie Ventura. Even if
you believe her though, this was a ten to eleven
year consensual relationship, and so I'm in a position on
the one hand where i don't have to convince the
jury that this eight months pregnant, likable, well spoken, sympathetic

(24:23):
woman is some kind of lunatic liar. On the other hand, though,
let me give the other side. I'd be worried though,
because that videotape is so bad, and the visceral nature
of her testimony and what she went through is so shocking.
I'd be worried about what you talked about a few
minutes ago, Steven, which is just is the overwhelming disgust

(24:43):
for this guy, for Diddy gonna just be so much
that overwhelms everything else in now.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Apologies, you just brought up something very very quickly, the
fact that the whole tape is the whole tape has
been released.

Speaker 6 (24:53):
Yeah, so look, the I don't know whether we'll get
to see it in the public, but that tape is
a crucial piece of evidence. You're gonna need, the jury's
gonna need to see and consider every bit of that.
And they actually had Cassidy Ventura narrating it sort of
piece by piece, which I think is really important, a
because it bolsters Cassidy Ventura's testimony, but be it allows
a firsthand participant, the victim, to tell the jury exactly

(25:16):
what they're seeing there, what's happening each step of the way.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Helly honek CNN legal analyst Extraordan there right here on,
Stephen Ates Mitchell, appreciate you, buddy, Thank you so much
for your time.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Man right start taking coming up.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Nine months after his death, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred says
Pete Rose and others are now eligible for the Hall
of Fame.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I'll get into that ahead.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
But first, Jason Tatum, Tears and Achilles and a Mavericks
somehow wind up with the first overall pick any.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Upcoming NBA draft.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
I'm breaking down how both stories could have a major
impact on the association. All of that and more up
next right here with Steven A The steven As Smithship back.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
With more than a minute.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Hi, everybody, listen up with all the big time sports
action that's happening each and every day, The Stephen Nate
Smith Show wants to make sure you are taking advantage.

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Of it all.

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Speaker 2 (26:51):
Welcome back to Steven Nate Smith Show. Let's get to
the NBA and two count them.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Two big headlines that could have a major impact on
the association.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Got in Boston with a.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Celtics law superstar Jason Tatum for the rest of the
playoffs and likely most of next season with a ruptured
achilles tendon. Tatum went down late in the fourth quarter
of the Eastern Conference semifinal series against the New York
Knicks on Monday night. He underwent surgery to repair erupted
right achilles tendon yesterday and he's expected to make.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
A full recovery.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
However, the Celtics say there is no timetable for his return.
From my understanding, technology has advanced tremendously so and I've
heard people saying that Tatum could be back, could be
back as early as the spring and available for the
playoffs next season. My comments about that is A, I
got to see that to believe it, and B even

(27:41):
if he doesn't come back, I sincerely doubt he'll be
to Jason Tatum we've been watching over the last several
years be a four time All NBA player, NBA Eastern
Conference Finals MVP, and NBA Champion, a guy that's gone
to five Conference Finals appearances in his career, a twenty
seven point per game scorer over.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
The last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
I find it very difficult to believe that we'll see
that caliber of player that early. If he were return
next season, I personally believe he probably would be going
the entire year, but who knows.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
We shall see.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'll say that number two were gonna learn a lot
about the Boston Celtics, particularly Game five tonight in Boston
and obviously the very near future. They don't have one
superstar player in Jason Tatum that's being paid over three
hundred million dollars.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
They have two.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Jalen Brown is a three hundred and four million dollar player.
What the hell are they paying you for? Because you
can ball?

Speaker 2 (28:39):
That's why.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
So you got to go out there as the number
one option for the Boston Celtics and take the hell
over and show who you are and what you're made of.
I'm obviously rooting for my New York Knicks, but I
don't wish what happened to Jason Tatum on anybody, especially
a class guy like him. But to get that out
of the way, understand that the Boston Celtics still have
porzingis they still have Derek White, they still have Drew Holliday,

(29:00):
they still have Jalen Brown.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
You should be able to be competitive.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
If you're Jalen Brown, you just go out there and
make sure it ain't you. It just don't let it
be you. You got to be the one to shore.
Let everybody else not sure, but you make sure you do.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
That's all I gotta say.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Because Boston a lot about a lot of things that
we're gonna learn. The likelihood is that that five that's
starting five porzingis a holiday are White, a Brown, and
a Tatum.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
The likelihood is that.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
We will never see this start and five playing together again,
because it's entirely possible that by the time Tatum comes back, one,
if not more of those other guys are gone. We
shall see next up, Let's get to the other NBA
headline that sent shock waves through the league on Monday night,
and that's the Dallas Mavericks winning the draft lottery. The

(29:50):
MAVs had only a one point eight percent chance of
winning the lottery, have to being eliminated, and it was
the Conference finals play in game to end the tumultuous season.
If you remember, Kyrie Irving went down with the torn
acl and fans were ready to drive GM Nico Harrison
out of town for the trade that sent Luca Doncics
to the Los Angeles Lakers. Well, now they have a
chance to secure another generational talent in Duke's Cooper Flag,

(30:11):
a two way player with the first overall pick in
the draft.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Couple of things.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Number one, I was very very happy for Nico Harrison
because when you see the way Luca played defense, how
many people were blowing by him during the playoffs. You
saw what the defensive liability he was and what level
of that played and the success that the Lakers were
not able to reap. You hear Nico Harrison talking about

(30:37):
trying to win championships and acquiring somebody like Anthony Davis
and improving their defense exponentially. If Kyrie Irving hadn't gone down,
Who's to say what Dallas would have done. So I
think we have to pay attention to that. We can't
ignore that reality. With that being said, because Nico Harrison
made the trade, did y'all know there were cops in
his backyards all the time?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
In this front yard?

Speaker 1 (30:58):
You know that he's been under heavy security since the trade,
people threatening him, threatening his life, bothering his family, etc.
Do you realize what this man has had to go
through and now it may end up being that he
looks like a genius one all is said and done,
Because if the Dallas Mavericks are winning and the Los

(31:19):
Angeles Lakers are not, where does that leave Nico Harrison?
Then if Luka Doncik is in LA but he ain't
getting it done, where does that leave the Los Angeles Lakers?
I think those are legitimate questions to ask, particularly when
you considering Nico. Now to get to the Dallas Mavericks.
Let me say this real quickly to you, Cooper, Flag
doesn't need to go anywhere. I understand if you're the

(31:42):
Dallas Mavericks, you got assets you could trade for somebody,
let's say, like a giannis Ant Totakoupo. You don't need
three hefty salaries on your books, particularly in the age
of the Second Apron with the collective Bargaining Agreement threatening
to ravage your franchise financially. You don't need that problem
because Giannis would have to be paid along with ad
along with Kyrie and Cooper Flag under that Rockie Wade skill. Essentially,

(32:02):
you don't have that problem. Number two, he's a two
way player. He's a baller. He ain't a big Tom
bona fide shooter, so he's not the second coming of
Larry Bird. But damnity looks the part which brings me
to my other point. We know that Cooper Flag can ball.
We know this is the Cooper Flag draft. We've known
that since he entered college as a member of the

(32:22):
Blue Devils.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
But let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
If I'm the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, he ain't
going no damn place. You know why, because he's white.
He's a white baller.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
That's right. I said it, and I mean it.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
There's very very few people that's gonna be as marketable
as Cooper Flag. If Cooper Flag is the player we
believe him to be, I ain't telling you ignore his
talent and just draft and just keep him because he's white.
I'm saying, because he's a big Tom bawler who's expected
to be a big Tom baller on the pro level.
The fact that he's white makes him that much more
attract He's a white American. That makes him incredibly marketable

(33:04):
right here in these United States, and especially in Dallas, Texas.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I say Texas.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Because I get that from my buddy Jerry Jones, owner
the Dallas Cowaly the Texas. And by the way, I
saw an advertisement Cooper flag. Did y'all know they had
the flag behind him? Did you know that during the
NCAA to the so they had the flag behind him?
I mean, my god, the only promo I saw it
better than that. And I don't mean this disrespectfully. I'm

(33:33):
not trying to be insensitive or anything like that, but
I've been on the record saying that when candidate Trump
got shot and you saw the blood trickling down his
air and the right side of his face, and then
you saw him stand up surrounded by Secret Service agents
and he's pumping his fist, fight, fight, fight, and the

(33:53):
American flag was behind him. You knew then chances of
him losing the election with Slim the none.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Now let's bring it.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Back to basketball flag with the flag behind him. The
brother ain't from the streets of Chicago, New York at LA.

Speaker 8 (34:12):
He's from Maine, and he can ball, he can play,
and on top of that, all.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
White, very very marketable. I'm not trading him. I'm gonna
make money for the next decade.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Off of his brother.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
He's staying right there and last but not leaks when
I bring up Texas, because it's important that you hear
me say Texas.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I told the story in first take. I'm telling it
to y'all right now real quick to my audience out there.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
So last year, I'm in Austin, Texas for the south
By Southwest Conference, and I'm in my hotel room and
Lord behold, the show Martin comes on. And I'm all
excited about Martin because that's one of my all time
favorite comedians. And I'm watching it and I've never seen

(35:06):
this happen in my life. I'm watching Martin and in
the middle of a broadcast, it's interrupted shut off to
play the national anthem with the red, white and blue

(35:27):
American flag draped on the television screen. I've never seen
that in my life. But as Jerry Jones will say,
in Texas, we do things a little different than here.
That's Cooper Flag, a little bit different than typical American player.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Usually, when you see.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Somebody as white as him, as good as he's projected
to be, they're from Europe. I don't know where it's from, Slovenia, Serbia, Czechoslovakia, France, whatever.
They usually from here projected to have this kind of
star power.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
But that brother is and he's white. I don't know
about the rest of y'all, but in.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
America, when you have somebody white that's that gifted, that's.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
A money maker.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
If ever there was one, if I know it, the
nineteen year marketing veteran from Nike that is now running
basketball operations for the Dallas Mavericks named Nico Harrison, he
knows it too. Cooper Flag, stays. Cooper Flag's gonna be
in Dallas.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Who knows?

Speaker 1 (36:50):
He might even end up being as popular as the
Dallas Cowboys, if not more, because you certainly gonna expect
him to win more than they do.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
You know what I'm saying. I'm just saying so I
see him like looking picking them up.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
I went out like, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
You said you was gonna shoot me, so there you go.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
I get I got, I gave you guns.

Speaker 9 (37:15):
It was like a movie. Javars came in right behind
him and walking to his locker and uh, thanks, escalated.

Speaker 10 (37:21):
It's like, okay, you really want to do this, you
really want to try me.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
He threw it, threw it across the room. He threw
it like it was a toy, like it was nothing.

Speaker 9 (37:31):
I never in my life believed in the slow motion
until that moment. Everything started happening in the slow motion.
When the gun hit the floor, then go walk.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
That's when Javars is what I need you for.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
I got mine.

Speaker 10 (37:45):
People are spring here running out like I don't know Javars.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
God, it's like that.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
But people don't know if it's loaded or not.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I can't, you know, tell you if his gun
was loaded. That's for you know, him to disclosed.

Speaker 10 (38:01):
It ain't no point of carrying a gun, no bullets
in it. And it was scary, bron I ain't gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
It's kind of scary.

Speaker 9 (38:09):
I was definitely scared too.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
I am not gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I thought it was gonna go off.

Speaker 10 (38:13):
My heart racing, you know, because it's like, man, you're
making me feel like you you finished something that happened.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
My next guest was a former New York Knicks Los
Angeles Laker an NBA G League Ignite assistant coach. He
also served as head coach of the Basketball Africa League's
Cape Town Tigers. Please welcome to the show to one
and only Rashid has It Coach has How are you, man?

Speaker 2 (38:35):
How's everything going?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Doing great? How are you?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I'm doing okay?

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I want, I got, I got some stuff to get
into you about this documentary you put forth.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Can't wait to talk to you about it.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
But with my Knicks entering Game five right now, I'd
be remissing, neglecting to bring this up.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
My man, I can't ignore this. You are a member
the New York Knicks organization. Your thoughts on.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Where they stand right now and how they've looked in
these playoffs.

Speaker 11 (38:59):
I mean, and as long as you got Jalen Brunson
out there rolling, you guys have a chance to go
all the way and win the whole thing. I mean,
you have one of the top two three best players
left in the playoffs, and then you see the contributions
you know that you're getting from Ananov, and then the
Bridge's trade is actually starting to look a lot better
now because he's making those key plays and key moments.

(39:23):
And I think people got mistaken because he wasn't scoring
big and he missed a few shots, and they forgot
because he contributes in multiple ways, because he's a winner
coming out of Villanova, but he knows how to play
winning basketball, and so you guys have all the elements.
And if you can just keep Karl Anthony Towns playing aggressive,
attacking that paint and rebounding and being a presence for you,

(39:47):
you gotta got.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
A chance, right see.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
But work with me on this one. Am I allowed
because you know I'm a nick fainn You know how
I roll? Am I allowed to be a little bit
more demanding? Am I allowed to be a bit more
reticent when he's not scoring.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Bridges considering we gave a five first round picks for
him and four unprotected.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
He better do this, Forshid, he better do this.

Speaker 11 (40:11):
Man, You're not You're not out of place wanting him
to be consistent with his scoring output.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Not at all.

Speaker 11 (40:17):
You're gonna at least You're gonna need twelve to fourteen
points a game from him consistently and an efficient twelve
to fourteen.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Okay, okay, I'm gonna need more than that, but I'm
gonna let it laughing that because I got other things
to talk to you about. But I need more than
twelve or fourteen points for about a guy gave a
fourth first round unprotected picks more.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I need more than that.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
But let me ask you this real quick before I
get to your before I get to uh, this docutionary
you produced. You've been in several draft rooms as a coach.
Cooper Flag is rejected to be the number one overall
pick and potentially go to the Dallas Mavericks.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Number one? Is he that good of your eyes? Number two?
Is he worth the number one overall pick? Number three?
Is he a good fit with the MAVs?

Speaker 11 (40:56):
Those are all great questions. I think I think it's
fit with the MAVs. All depends on did he improve
his shooting to the level that he needs to. It's
for him to be a good fit for the MAVs.
You know, he's gonna have to play next to Anthony Davis.
You know, Klay Thompson eventually, hopefully Kyrie comes back healthy.
God willing, right, and so you're gonna need floor stretchers, right.

(41:19):
The thing that he does that's gonna be great if
he goes to the MAVs. He's a culture guy, right,
He's gonna come to work every day, bring us hard
at he's gonna defend, He's gonna do the blue collar
things that you need.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Him to do.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
But if he's really improved on his jump.

Speaker 11 (41:32):
Shooting, his catch and shoot, wide open shooting, if he
can be a knockdown shooter, a marksman.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
He's gonna be a hell of a pickup for whoever
picks him.

Speaker 11 (41:41):
And if the MAVs are fortunate to get him, then
it'll be a great pick for them.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
The reason you're here on this show today and thank
you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to
you about this is involved in this documentary Untold Shooting
Guards about former NBA players Gilbert Arenas and Javari's Critician.
Critician was a McDonald's All American drafted by the Lakers.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
For those who didn't know.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
But didn't find success there, You were an assistant coach
with the Lakers at the time. Take me back to
that time and why he didn't find success with the
Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I'm talking about Javarris.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
You know, Jabars came into a tough situation.

Speaker 11 (42:18):
You know, Number one, he came into a team that
was ready to win a championship. You know, we had
just you know, we had just kind of retooled and
decided that we were really going to go for it.
I believe that's the year we brought Derek Fisher back
as well, right, So, drafting a point guard when we
had already started to develop Jordan Farmer, who had shown

(42:43):
and who had earned fields trust. But you know, it's
very difficult for a rookie to earn fields trust. And
I think just by the way he played, the pace
and what he brought to the team, I think, uh,
Phil was more intent on keeping Jordan Farmar on that spot.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
So I think just came into a tough situation.

Speaker 11 (43:01):
You know, we didn't have the wherewithal to spend the time,
you know, to work with him when we were so
focused on trying to win a championship, and so some
of the things that we weren't able to provide.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Got you that makes perfect sense because you're trying to
win a championship. You got Covid, you got Derek Fitch,
you got proven winners that were veterans at that particular
moment in time. It definitely was a reasonable decision. We
all understand that even though Javar's was no scrub, he
could play. But in the documentary we saw a tattoo
critician had of the cryps gag. Was it known that
he was involved in that kind of life?

Speaker 11 (43:36):
Was known that he was involved with, but it was
known that he was having some problems with some guys
in the neighborhood. You know, he was caught out in
a couple of places. I won't say that he shouldn't
have been. He was just caught out, you know La,
you know, to go to hopping Wood, they go to
Beverly Hills, they move around. So he just got caught
in some unfortunate situations where I think some people tried

(43:59):
to take advantage of him. And I think at that
moment he felt like, hey, I need to get some help,
some protection. But instead of coming to us like the team,
you know, me and v Shaw, Craig Hodges, or going
to management or team security, I think he felt like
he can handle it. His own way, and I think
that was a huge mistake because when you are dealing

(44:21):
with the LA politics, you need to have somebody from LA,
even if they're not from the street, that can help
you navigating.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
True what actually happened with him and Gilbert Arenas that
ultimately led to both of them getting suspended by then
Commissioner David Stern for fifty games. Take us back and
tell us what you can tell us about exactly what
happened and why we should watch this docu series in
regards to all of that, it's documentary.

Speaker 11 (44:49):
Sorry, it's all started over gambling. Gambling debt that was
not a so Jivar's old Gilbert money, but they had
the argument all started over Javaris getting involved.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
With somebody else owing money. You know, you know how
the NBA is.

Speaker 11 (45:06):
It's just there's a lot of testosterone going around all
the time, and you don't need to involve yourselves in
things that don't involve you.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
When you do that, you know, trouble can happen.

Speaker 11 (45:17):
And basically what happened was just two guys that are
pretty at the time were emotionally immature who got into
a measuring contest as we know, and it went around.
It went too far, and Gilbert is the first to
tell you that he took it too far. And I
think for Javaris it went a little deeper. You know,

(45:39):
Javaris when he came to la he didn't suit up
for his first game. Then he gets traded, right, So
I think at this point Javaris had felt the trade,
not only by the game, but by people in the NBA,
which wasn't true. It was just he was on the
wrong side of business at that time. But I think
he felt the trade. And then when he got to Washington.

(46:00):
He told a story in the documentary about how he
was playing in his first days and one of his
shoes blew out, and Gil's over there cheering him on,
and Gilbert goes.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Now, what'side shoe do you wear? He goes, I wear thirteen.

Speaker 11 (46:14):
Gilbert takes the shoes off of his feet and gives
them to Javaris so and tells him, hey, man, keep
killing them dudes, and just sits there and keeps cheering
them on. So they actually started as like a mentor
mintee relationship. And I think in that moment when Gilbert
tested him, or when Jabvars felt like Gilbert disrespected him.

(46:34):
I think that crossed the line for Javars, and I
think that was the point of no retirement.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
So your involvement in this is what specifically as it
pertains to this documentary and why were you compelled to
want this story told so much.

Speaker 11 (46:51):
So my connection of this was I was the player
of development coach with the Lakers at the time, So
me and Craig Hodges and b Shaw specifically, we spent
a lot of time with Jabbars, you know, summerly. I
was a summer league coach when Javars was on the team,
and so I had a great relationship and was felt
responsible for any young guys, low minute guys, young guys

(47:14):
because I was the low man on the totem call,
I pretty much felt responsible, you know, for their development
and for how they got along with the team. And
so that was the beginning of why I was the
person that was chosen to be a part of it.
But I have another connection to the director of the piece,
Walter Thompson. Ornandez was my star player at Venice High

(47:35):
School my first year as a head coach. So it's
a full circle moment. And Walter, I mean as another
great story kid. He had a point nine g PA
when he joined my program, you know, ended up being
my leading scorer, one of.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
The top players in the city.

Speaker 11 (47:53):
Goes to Cayle poly Pomona and takes them to the
the championship game Division two National championship game.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
They lose at the Buzzer.

Speaker 11 (48:02):
He ends up graduating cum Laude, goes to UCLA, gets
his masters, goes to Stafford and gets a PhD. And
this is a kid who came from the streets and
he's one of my greatest accomplishments as a coach. So
to be a part of this documentary for me was
it was just a full circle moment.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
And you know, I really I get emotional.

Speaker 11 (48:24):
About it because I know where this kid came from
and to see him in the position he's in, doing
the work he's doing and telling the story as beautifully as.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
He told it, it really moves me.

Speaker 11 (48:36):
And I'm just honored that I was able to be
a part of it and help him tell his story.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
You know, I'm gonna get to what the underlying message,
the wish for the underlying message that you want absorbed
and disseminated to the masters should be because when we
talk about critician. He returned to Atlanta afterwards after the
fifty geates suspension and all that where his life spirals.
He was robbed twice by low according to reports, and
tried to retaliate, but ended up killing a twenty two

(49:04):
year old woman mother of four named Julian Jones. He
pleaded guilty the man slaughter in twenty fifteen, was sentenced
to twenty three years in prison, though it was later
reduced to ten years, and was released from prison on
April twenty first of twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
There was even some talk.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
About the white Howard's uncle and how he may have
played a role in his early release. But I throw
all of that out because the public needs to know that,
because to know where this story comes from.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
How the depths of.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Where it went to, and how we hear where we
are right now. When you think about the message that's
going to be sent from those of us who watched
this documentary, what do you hope that.

Speaker 11 (49:43):
We peel from it, especially young young people like especially
these young athletes today, or you know, dealing with all
these rankings and all this attention, just that number one,
your the decisions you make can change your life. It's

(50:03):
number one. And don't make emotional decisions. I think again,
this was a matter of two guys who are emotionally immature,
and I think in our community we have to we
have to teach this a little bit more. We have
to teach our young people to be more emotionally mature.
And part of that emotional maturity is understanding that it's

(50:26):
okay to be vulnerable. You know, man, it's okay things hurt.
You know, you're not less of a man if these
things happen to you. And I think for our community,
I hope in our community we really learn to wrap
our arms around these young athletes because right now what's
happening to these young men is they're coming out is

(50:47):
basically like abused children, because when they make it to
the final level, when it gets to the NBA. Use
a guy like Michael Beasley for an example, Right, he
had all these people that he trusted in his background,
and he gets to the highest level and finds out
he said, the same people have been screwing him the
whole way.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Right.

Speaker 11 (51:05):
And while Gavaris's story isn't quite that, it still it's
still parallels that same theme and that same sentiment right,
because once again, we're not preparing our young people for
these opportunities, for the web, for the attention, and I think,

(51:27):
you know, we have to do a better job. And
I'm just talking mainly right now to our community to
make sure that our young people are mentally their mental
health is protected. And that was something that I've been
been experiencing his last two years. I've been working with
a lot of high school a lot of the top
high school players, and what I've really been focused on

(51:48):
in my conversations with them is really paying attention to
their mental health and trying to be a person that
they can talk to and be open to, because I
think a lot of our young people they just don't
have that album, and they end up like Javars, with
all this pent up frustration that eventually boils over and
leads you to murdering this beautiful young lady, Julian Jones, who.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Did not deserve it to cast away at the time
she did.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Do you have any idea whether or not since he's
been released, what he's been doing, whether or not he's,
you know, reconnected with Gilbert Areenas, whether the Men's have
been made or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Any knowledge about that at all.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Yeah, I know Gilbert has been very supportive of Javars.

Speaker 11 (52:29):
I think even while he was in prison, I think
they started to mend their relationship. I don't know exactly
where it is, but I know I think the player.
I love seeing where Gilbert Arenas is right now. Yeah,
why it's beautiful, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
You know? She let me interject.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I gotta tell you, man, you know I showed up
on Gilzerina. You know they could be buck wild podcasts
as wild them brother's crazy, But I mean that in
a good way. But if you listen like Kenyan Mau
and Kenya Mart hardcore and all of this sudden swaggy
p you know he can act. He can act a
little silly sometime, but got a decent heart.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
You look at Rashad McCants, you know, with the mask.
You know he come on hardcore and all of this
other stuff. Give her a Renas, yo. There's some good
guys man, and especially and give it the Renas is
a good brother that's come a.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Long, long, long way.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
When you talk about the kind of progression that you're
alluding to, I give them a lot of credit over
I've always been a fan of Kenyon Martin. But the
other catch just knowing them talking to them or whatever.
They's some good dudes, man, I think that. I don't
think that's said enough. We talk about their podcast, but
they're not bad guys. They're actually real good guys. They're
just straight up what they feel. But they're actually really

(53:42):
really good guys, especially in Gilbert's Arenas' case.

Speaker 11 (53:45):
Absolutely, And the thing I love about that podcast as
well is you get to see their intelligence, right, these guys,
the way they articulate their thoughts on the game and
against that are happening in current events, and the way
that the dialogue is happening.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Mane, I just I just really love it, especially for
a guy.

Speaker 11 (54:05):
Like Kenya Martin who painted thug Brush and you'd this
and that and that. Brother Colin graduated yep, these four years.
You know he comes from what he comes from. But
what's inside of that man?

Speaker 3 (54:20):
All good dude, please, he.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Just doesn't play, he doesn't suffer fools, and he don't play.
But he's not a bad guy by any stretch of
the imagination. Before I let you get on out of here,
one of the things in my research that was talked
about was your experiences being around Kobe Bryant. And there
were a lot of lessons you you brought up that
you learned from him, but you talked about humility being
one of the things foremost amongst them.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Explain what that's about.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Now.

Speaker 11 (54:48):
The humility that Kobe had was that he had had
we call it the beginner's mindset, something we learned from
text winner Phil Jackson, and the beginner's mindset basically states
that no matter how high you would send, how great
your skill gets, you know, wherever you get, what the
level you get to in the game, you still have

(55:08):
to have the beginner's mindset, which means that you're still
willing to learn and be coached and be taught. And
that was Kobe's humility.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
You know.

Speaker 11 (55:16):
I know a lot of people think he was arrogant
because he believed in his skills. But I was one
of the people who was fortunate enough to be in
the gym with him. After we lost in eighth he
called me to day after Labor Day and asked me
to come out to UC Irvine to help him prepare
for training camp.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Because and this speaks to his humility.

Speaker 11 (55:36):
We had a conversation after we lost in O eight,
and I think he went to everybody and spoke to everybody,
but he happened to talk to me as we were
at the plane the next day, and he's like, you know, hey,
he called me, right, what did you see?

Speaker 3 (55:48):
You know, give me your thoughts, And so I gave
him my thoughts.

Speaker 11 (55:51):
But I also remembered the thing I sat in the
video room with Phil, Frank Hadler, Kim Clinton's Craig God
just text Winner, he Shaw every So my job was
to remember all those things and take him to the
court and do player development. So and that opportunity to
talk to Kobe, I just ran down the list of
all the things that I've been hearing through the playoffs,
especially in that series with Boston, about him breaking the

(56:14):
offense too early, you know, looking to do things off
the bounce.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
And so we had that conversation and I thought it
was over.

Speaker 11 (56:21):
You know, as far as I knew, he could have
been pissed off at me and been like.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Right crazy, But you know, Kobe, he don't give you much.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Jesus.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
I would have hated to play cocher with him.

Speaker 11 (56:30):
He calls me day after Labor Day and he's like, hey,
come help me prepare and we just went through triangle
and footwork and he allowed me.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
I'm the lowest dude on the coaching staff.

Speaker 11 (56:41):
He allowed me to coach and to teach and to bring,
you know, my vision of the game and.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
What I thought he could do and teach it to him.

Speaker 11 (56:51):
And I mean, you got to have some humility to
do that when you're Kobe Bryant here, I am Rashid
Hazard four years removed from being in a high scho
coach and your willingness to listen and learn from me,
that's the ultimate sign if you've never lived a big home.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
And that's who he.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Was, no doubt, no doubt about you know. I knew
him well, so I know you know exactly what you're saying.
I got a first hand my man, Rashid Hasard Man
right here on the Steven Nate Smithshew really really appreciate
you taking time out, man. I can't wait to watch
this documentary.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Man. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Right,
we'll talk soon.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Thank you for having me talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
No doubt, one and only Rashid has it. Got to
watch that, no question about it. That give it a
renas as far as critician, story is something that is
must see, to be quite honest.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
With you, because there's a lot that happened.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
There's a lot of things that were affected that that
affected the NBA with make no mistake about that.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Coming up.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Nine months after his passing, Pete Rose, major League Baseball's
all time hits leader, is finally eligible for the Hall
of Fame. How why why now? I'll get into all
of that. Close out the show up next right here
on the Stephen Nate Smithshell. Don't go away, Welcome back

(58:04):
to the Stephen A.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Smith Show.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I want to get to a story from Major League
Baseball that you headlines yesterday.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
That's because Commissioner Rob Manfred.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Removed Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, and other deceased players
from Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
As a result, they're now eligible for.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York.
The players were issued lifetime bands for betting on the sport.
Manfred's decision ends the band that Rose accepted from then
commissioner bought Giamatti in August of nineteen eighty nine. The
band followed an investigation that determined Pete Rose bet on

(58:46):
games while managing the Cincinnati Reds, not playing managing shoeless
Joe Jackson and seven other White Sox players were banned
from baseball in nineteen twenty one for fixing the ninth
seteen nineteen World Series. Here's a portion of the statement
from the commissioner, mister Manfred himself yesterday.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Quote.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
In my view, once an individual has passed away the
purposes of Rule twenty one, permanent ineligibility have been served. Obviously,
a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat
to the integrity of the game.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Moreover, it is hard to conceive of.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
A penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that
lasts a lifetime.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
With no reprieve end quote.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Before I get into my thoughts, I want to share
with you what my buddy Christopher mad Dog Russo, you
know with his own channel, Mad mad Dog Radio, that
Christopher mad Door Russo. I want to show you what
he had to say this very morning on First Take
on ESPN early today. I want you to listen to
what he had to say. It's a little long, but

(59:57):
it's worth it.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Take a listen.

Speaker 8 (59:59):
How is PA not in the Hall of Fame long
before this day. Anyway, Baseball's in bed with every gambling establishment.
You can check a stick at fan Duel DraftKings. They
make a fortune with this betting scenario. And when they
needed Rose after all these years, when he was ineligible
for the master Card Top fifty player thing at the
World Series in ninety nine, they wheeled Pete out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
When he needed Rose.

Speaker 8 (01:00:21):
At the All Star Game, when they celebrated each team's
four best players and Roses voted by Cincinnati Boom, they
wheeled Rolls out so for promotional purposes. When they needed
Rose to be sort of big for baseball and to
sell some tickets, they couldn't wait to allow him to
be on the field to be part of that. When
Rose's kid made his major league debut in Cincinnati, did

(01:00:43):
you know that baseball would not let Rose go on
the field. He had to buy a ticket. This is
his freaking kid, and you may buy a ticket after
all the money he put in your pocket year after
year after year, and then all of a sudden, now,
and I love Banford, I hate to do this, but
he got to do it one of a sudden. Now
we're apter sides five months after he drops dead, Rob decides, now, well,

(01:01:05):
you know what, now he's eligible for the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Well, and then.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
He's you know, since he's no longer alive, it's lifetime,
no permanent. Well, hold on, Rob, you can't say that.
Because Joe Jackson died in nineteen fifty one, he's been ineligible.
He's an automatic Hall of Famer lifetime three fifty four inner.
And you didn't make Kim eligible into rolls scenario wise.
So if this is about lifetime, why wasn't Jackson made
eligible when you became the commission in twenty fifteen. I mean, listen,

(01:01:33):
you couldn't get Pete Rose a day in nineteen in
twenty twenty three when he was eighty years old, to
let him have a day in Cooperstown, New York. And
if you go to the Hall of Fame, you know
you've seen the Hall of Fame. It's a Pete Rose cathedral.
There's posters, there's film, there's.

Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
Uniforms, cleats and bats. It's all about Pete Rose.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So let me just get this.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
And they charge at twenty bucks to get in. So
if you want to see Pete the Hall of Fame,
here's the fact that he used to hit break concert record,
but by golly, we ain't given him any day in
Hall of Fame. And this is a sport that has
been with the gambling community, and listen, good for them,
but you can't have it both ways. Be morally high
ground if you're so against gambling. So listen if you

(01:02:17):
and the other thing is from a legacy standpoint, what
now his legacy changes because he's dead. So in other words,
then when he's alive, we can't put him because it
tornishes the sport. But now that he's dead five months later,
who cares about legacy? We can put him in the
Hall of Fame. I mean, listen, what baseball did here
to me?

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Overall?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
With Rose and Roses no hero.

Speaker 8 (01:02:38):
We understand he should have been suspended for thirty something years,
but enough for any as people used to say, al
Capone got better treatment. It's a major league Baseball. They
are totally out of line. And I'm really surprised that
I think Manfred wanted this office plate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I thought he was.

Speaker 8 (01:02:52):
I think he's hard of getting criticized for how baseball
is so hypocritical with the Rose thing, so he wanted
the office plate. And I hate to do this as
a look sporters. You know, I think baseball is completely wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
He couldn't be more right. He couldn't be more right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
The level of hypocrisy on a part of Major League
Baseball is so flaming right now it's hard to put
the words.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So your Pete Rose.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
And you received a lifetime ban is something that you
accepted the nineteen eighty nine from then commissioner bar Giamarty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
We got all of that. We understand you have a
a bundance of.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
People out there who have been incredibly unforgiving baseball writers,
you know, former players, etc.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
But here's my thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
If you were so appalled and you wanted him to
be devoid of any kind of recognition whatsoever, how come
that didn't apply when you were able to profit off
of him by having him participate in various MLB activities
when you wanted to bring attention when he was on
the field, and that whole Jim Gray fiasco went about

(01:04:04):
Pete Rose was on the field because MasterCard, a huge
sponsor for the sport, had thrown an event and you
wanted Pete Rose to be a part of it in
order to celebrate the game. When you think about him
and his name and his image and his likeness. The
Hall of Fame uses that, and they're charging people twenty
bucks or more pop to come into Cooperstown.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
And you got his stuff all over the place, whether
it's bats, his hats, his glove, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Whatever, a ball, paraphernalia's uniform, etc. You've been able to
profit off of this man. But somehow someway in the
United States of America, where we forgive murderers, where we
forgive rapists, where we forgive domestic abusers, where we forgive everybody,
we had to hold strong on Pete Rose because he

(01:04:50):
gambled on the sport to win. By the way, as
a manager, you had nothing on him as a player,
but tried to get the world to forget about them
as a player until you recognize you could profit off
of them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Is that baseball? I will say this much. It is
what it has been.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
I happen to personally like Rob Manfred. I like some
of the changes he's instituted in the sport of baseball.
I think some of the changes he's instituted has invited
athleticism into the sport, which is going to serve to
elevate the demographic portion of the sport. You're gonna see
more blacks in the sport. Obviously, you got enough foreign
players in the sport. I think that's gonna serve to

(01:05:37):
benefit the sport exponentially, no doubt about that. I'm a
fan of Rob Manfred in that regard. I'm a fan
of the challenges that he's made to the players. I'm
a fan of the fact that he's tried to get
the players to stop being the last ones to the
party when it comes to transitioning and making changes to
adapt to modern times.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
I appreciate all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
But this right here, you know what we're hear right now,
the change in his level of thinking eight because of
Pete Rose dying Because, like mad Dog Russo said, Joe
Jackson died in the fifties and you didn't take him
off the end eligibility list. And Pete Rose died September

(01:06:16):
thirty of twenty twenty four, that's eight months ago.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
What took you so long? And oh, by the way, now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
We got the Hall of Fame talking about they're gonna
put a committee together to decide whether or not to
vote Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame. But that's
not gonna take place until twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
What the hell is the delay for? He's dead?

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
What are you waiting for?

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Could it be for it to die.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Down so you don't have to put a committee together
at all, so we could just whistle into the win
and just forget about this. It's amazing to me how
unforgiving the sport is when there's so many things the
sport has done.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Over the years that shouldn't be forgiven.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Don't get me started with the hypocrisy that's been exercised
against Barry Bonds, but not necessarily so much against.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Mark maguire, who actually was back in baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
And working as a coach even after he was revealed
to have taken steroids. Sammy Sosa, and the sport has
been Betty, Betty good to me showing up on Capitol
Hill needing an interpreter for the first time when a
man speaking English all of those years as a member
of the Chicago Cubs. I mean, come on, now, every

(01:07:33):
time we turn around, we see baseball, steroids, amphetamines and
everything in between. Alcohol, domestic violence has occurred by some
folks participated in Major League Baseball and when everybody was
being raked through the colds in the NBA, in the NFL,
it wasn't such a case in baseball. So many times
over the years, America's pastime has gotten a pass.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
But it shouldn't be on this one. This is wrong.
This is wrong period.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
I'm not gonna applaud Rob Manfred and Major League Baseball
over this. This should have been happened. And oh, by
the way, he should be inducted into the Hall of
Fame immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And for those who felt like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
He should have never been allowed to work in Major
League Baseball, again, we had commissioners that didn't want black
participation in the sport, that did everything they could to
keep Jackie Robinson's Jackie Robinsons of the world from integrating
the sport of Major League Baseball.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
They're in the books. They got to get a check
from Major League Baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Mountain you know, Kennisa mountain Land has ever heard of him,
former commissioner.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Look it up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
And now you know what else we're hearing that the
reason Rob Manfred may have come We're not sure, but
may have come to this decision is because President Trump
was pressuring him to do so, because he's been wanted
Pete Rose taking off of that in eligibility list and
ultimately inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. So now

(01:08:56):
we're political. Now we had a conversation with him President,
and now we made this decision. Let's keep our eyes
on what President Trump does on behalf of Major League
Baseball down the line, because if it's anything, then that

(01:09:17):
would mean Baseball really didn't do this out of the
kindness of its heart. They did it because they were
expecting the favor of return. That ain't gambling, but it's
pretty much in the same family. You feel what I'm
saying was good for the goose evidently ain't good.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
For the gander. Let's get to your tweets before we
get on out of here for today.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
At max W seven six zero one three zero right,
Stephnee Smith. Will AUNT have a bigger impact in Minnesota
than KG did when it's all said and done, That
answer is yes, because I think this brother right here,
Aunt Man Anthony Edwards, is on the verge of winning
a champion. KG was phenomenal. He was great, but he
didn't win a championship in Minnesota. As matter of fact,

(01:10:06):
he didn't get to the finals in Minnesota. I'm throwing
no shade on the big ticket. That brother was special,
but those are the facts. Ant Man I believe is
going to get them to the finals and has a
good chance right now to win the championship this year.
Would that being a reality? I'm gonna say the answer
to this is a resounding yes. Next week, please give
it to me at Ahon Rungta Rungta Right, Steve A.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Smith?

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Would you rather your arm be a cooked or uncooked noodle?
I would say uncooked because that's less of a chance
of it being eating.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
How about that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
That might not make no sense to you, but it
makes sense to me. You're talking about something being cooked
or uncooked. That's how I'm gonna look at it. I
don't think my arms.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
These days are noodles. But I feel you. I get you,
flow with whatever you want to believe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Next tweet, let's got it. Let's go at to coke
it with taco. King Ax writes Phew Day Smith. Can
you vibe with someone who eats pizza with a knife
and fork? I don't mind. I mean, it ain't my
cup of tea, It's not how I roll. But if

(01:11:20):
my woman is fine and she's in my life, and
we go out and I see her using a knife
and a fork to eat a pizza instead of just
grabbing it with her hands and chewing on it like
most of us. Do you think I'm gonna hold her
against her and that's gonna be a deal breaker? You
really think that's gonna affect me because she used a

(01:11:41):
knife and a fork to eat a slice of pizza.
I don't give a damn as far as ever, sir,
she's keeping her hands clean. It ain't my way, but
I ain't knocking other ways. I'm versatile and flexible like that.
Perhaps you should be two two more tweets to go
before I get on our here at Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Steiny, right, stephen A. Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
If you swap Rogers and Brady, how many more rings
would Rogers have? I wouldn't say more, because I'm gonna
give great credit to Brady for being the leader that
he is. But I will say this, if Brady had
six rings in New England, I'd say.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Rogers would have got you at least four.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
I think as a talent, Rogers is the greatest quarterback
I've ever seen this side of Patrick Mahomes, who, by
the way, I saw yesterday at the Disney up fronts.
It was good seeing Patrick Mahomes brothers looking good, healthy,
ready to go. I would tell you that Rogers is
that talent but not that leader that Tom Brady is,
and so because of that, I would say he's still

(01:12:45):
so talented. He'd have got your four rings instead of
the six, but he still would have got more.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Than one ring than he that he had in Green Bay.
I can tell you that much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Last tweet, let's go with it at tropical Tweets, right,
Steven A.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Smith?

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Would you rather debates Skip Bayless every day for eternity
or coach the Knicks for one season.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Coaching Niggs? Coaching Niggs?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Skip Bayless and I already won championships when it came
to debate shows.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
We were number one for years. We did our thing.
More power to him.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Wish him nothing but the best, hope that he lives
his fruitful life and continues to thrive and doing whatever
it is that he's doing, never wishing anything negative on
my man, Skip Bayless. But personally speaking, I don't even
like this question because I would never be interested in
being the coach of the New York Knicks. I would
be the president of the Basketball operations, that's me. But

(01:13:44):
if I had to coach them for one season year,
I try that because I like challenges. Skip Bayless and
I been there, done that coaching in anything, let alone
the New York Knicks. That's a different animal entirely. And
I don't know how good I would be, to be
quite honest with you, I don't know. If I had
a patience understand, especially if I saw a guy's lack

(01:14:07):
a day's school to not give an effort and my
job depended on their effort, I'd be one pissed dude. However,
president of basketball operations, different matter altogether.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
I'd mess with you if you didn't give max effort.
Can't have that, can't have that. It needless to say,
we don't have that problem with the Knicks right now.
But one thing we know, they give us effort. That's
why they are about to go to the Conference Finders.
That's why they're about to go to the Conference Finders.
That's why they're about to go to the comforts funds.
I'm out until next time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Ladies and gentlemen, Stephen they signing off peace of love,
God bless stay out of trouble.