June 1, 2025 • 22 mins
Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.
Ryan Smith’s Legal Analysis
- Attorney Ryan Smith weighed in on the speed of the trial and the quality witnesses.
- He also discussed whether Trump might pardon Diddy, analyzing the legal complexities of the case.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Now, let's get to the latest in the federal sex
trafficking and racketeering trial against Sean Diddy Combs. Testimony resumed
this morning from a former assistant using the pseudonym Mia.
This is her second day of testimony where Mia said
Combs physically and sexually assaulted her numerous times when she
worked for him. Mia says that she also felt trapped
(00:25):
with no safe way to report the abuse she suffered.
The former assistant testified she was suspended several times from
her job for different reasons, including accidentally falling asleep after
being awake for days, and reacting to one of Combs's
violent episodes. The jury saw an email Mia received from
human resources following the incident that noted she was suspended
(00:47):
without pay for five days. Mia testified she was told
her suspension was because Combs said she was being insubordinate.
Colmbs is pleaded not guilty the charges that include racketeering, conspiracy,
and sexual trafficking. If convicted on all accounts, he could
face up to life in prison. Joining me now to
discuss this and other elements of the trial this week
(01:08):
is Ryan Smith. Contributed to the show Legal analyst Extraordinayre
for ABC Sports Center Anca as well.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Ryan. How are you man?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
How's everything?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Goodness? See Steven? How you doing man?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh Man?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
This case is crazy. Man, I'm doing well, but I'm
doing a hell of a lot better than Diddy. Let's
get that out the way. It definitely hell of a
lot better than him. I want to pick up from
where I just left off. What's the significance of me
as testimony this morning?
Speaker 4 (01:32):
It's huge, not only from the perspective that she talks
about how she was sexually assaulted by Ditty, which is
a big part of the prosecution's case, but it's also
part of their racketeering case. Part of what they're trying
to prove is a forced labor element of his racketeering case,
essentially saying he had people like me are working for
days in a row under force of threats or cores
and what threats. There's threats that she has over text
(01:55):
message of communications where he's saying I'm gonna tell everything
things like sexual assault that she experienced in her mind
that might be told to Cassie and others that might
hurt her. So what they're trying to put together to
MEA's testimony is a couple of different things. First is
that there was an element of forced labor going on
under Ditty, where people felt like they had to do
things that were extreme under force of like threat or violence.
(02:19):
She talks about how he threw a computer at hers,
through spaghetti at her.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
That concern led her to be in this forced labor situation.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
She's also there to cooperate elements of Cassie story, Cassie
talking about the sexual assaults she went through, and now
Mia talking about what she experienced as part of the
overall case of Ditty having this criminal enterprise, having all
these people working for him, planning certain things, doing certain
things to cover up the crimes they believe he was committed.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So what else stood out to you in court this week?
I mean that seems like more than enough. Was there
anything else that stood out to you over the last.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Timpercorn Clark's testimony that was huge.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I mean, this woman talking about everything she went through
working for him, working with him that contributed to the
elements of kid napping in Arson, because you talk about
kid Cutty, that whole situation we talked about this last week,
stephen A. The idea that Kid cutting feels that he
did he tried to bomb his Porsche. That's the arson part.
So she's talking about all the different relationships that Cassie
(03:13):
have a Kid Cutty, how did he found out and
the reactions he had coming to her house with a gun,
forcing her to go one place. That's part of the force,
coercion and all of this, and then doing these things
like breaking into kid Cutty's house. He talks about everything
that happened there and that seems then assigned to go
and tell him not to talk to the police. All
of this works into this criminal enterprise they're starting to
(03:34):
talk about here, this idea that he owned or operated
and associated this enterprise of doing crimes and had all
these people doing things to help facilitate that. When we
talked last week, we talked about, hey, where is all
of this going. Now we're starting to see stephen a
where all this is going. It's not just about the
accusations of sexual assault, the accusations of being a bad boss,
(03:56):
the accusations of doing things of threatening violence. It's for
prosecutors that he is doing all of these things to
sort of facilitate criminal activity. And then on the other end,
involving all these people to do these things for him,
to either conceal it or to keep it going, and
then doing an under force of threats or coercion, saying
(04:16):
to people like Mia, hey you do or the insinuation is, hey,
you don't do this for me. I'm gonna tell everything
about what happened with you and me. You do so
and somebody else. You don't come with me, I've got
a gun. You got to come with me, even if
you don't want to. This is the prosecution starting to
lay out that most powerful case on racketeering. That's what
they need to get to get the maximum time in jail.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And it's interesting that you bring that up because obviously
when we've had you on, we've had you on covering
this for us, and we really really appreciate it. You
made a point to say, basically, be patient, just wait.
They're just starting to make their case. You know, when
you're talking about him and his behavior domestic violence, that's
not sex, sex trafficking, that's not racketeering. They're laying the
(05:00):
the ground work for the case. You kept emphasizing that.
Right now, how are you feeling about what the government
is doing and how they're doing in presenting this case
against Diddy. What kind of a grade would you give
them right now?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Dig them B plus to A minus, maybe even A.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
And here's why they have their ducks in a row,
and they have their information set and their witnesses from
what we're seeing in court, are testifying very very well.
What do I mean by that, Well, the groundwork part
of it, like you talk about when you first when
we first start talking about this, you asked me how
long this case would last? I said six to eight weeks.
Now they're even saying it could go five weeks. So
this case is picking up steam. The prosecution is not
(05:37):
only efficiently presenting their case because Steve, and you got
to think about this as like people are sitting in
that court room.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Every day for hours hearing this stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
If it drags on and on and on and prosecution
can't be very efficient with their points, you start losing jurors.
They're going fast, they're going smoothly, and they're getting out
information very quickly and very precisely.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
That's helpful for the jury.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Not only that, crossed domination be comes huge here because
these people are getting pressed back.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Let's say, for example, me and capitals. We're going, Yeah, we're.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Getting pressed back on their social media posts, all these
things they posted with Diddy. These witnesses are prepared though
they're talking about, hey, I posted this on this day. Yes,
but it didn't mean I didn't feel this way at
the time. They're talking about with Capricorn Clark, they tried
to press her on the fact up did he have
a gun? Yes, he had a gun. I had to
go with him because they had a gun. That's witness
(06:27):
preparation right there. You don't want that witness getting up
there hemming and hauling, opening up other lines of questioning.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Now, the defense is doing what they can do.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
But what the speed of this case and the witness
testimony I'm reading is showing me are prosecuting witnesses that
are very well prepared, and a prosecuting team that is
slowly and methodically but efficiently building that case for Rico.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And from what I'm seeing so far reading because we're
not able to see it on TV, what I'm reading
so far, they seem to be doing a very good job.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, we're just reading. You're not just reading, you're in
the legal profession. You got sources all over the place.
I know you lived in the Ryan Smith. I mean,
how is the tell us?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Tell us how the legal profession feels.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The defense is doing in light of how good the
prosecution looks right now? What are you hearing about? What
the legal system? I'm talking about your colleagues, your contemporarate lawyers.
What do they feel about how the defense is doing?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Hey, lawyers I know and people I talk to, they
think the defense had an uphill taste to begin with.
I mean this was a tough This is a very
tough taste to be Steve, and you and I have
talked about this before. This prosecution office one of the
best in the world. I mean this is this is
top notch, best lawyers you can get. That's number one.
So you're fighting a really good lawyer on the other side.
The second thing is he gets a lot of bad
(07:44):
facts against him. He's got lots of people coming forward
talking about sexual assault abuse. So he's got a lot
of people talking about the systems, how things ran, how
he's threats and coerdison to get them to do certain things.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
This is the Rico case. So they've got so much
going against them.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
How are they doing from people I talk to, is
doing well because you play the hand that you have.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
That's the key with defense.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think sometimes people think, well, defense lawyers are gonna
come out and have this smoking gun that nobody saw coming.
That's not gonna happen. That's not gonna happen because there's
so many bad facts.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I apologize I wasn't. I didn't mean to ask how
to lawyers your contemporaries feel the defense is doing in
terms of are they doing a good job?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Are they not?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm meant to ask are they do are they confident
they're gonna be able to get this man off?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Asking to win this case because you can have lawyers,
you can have lawyers there. I think they're doing good
based on the hand of debt, they're doing an excellent job.
I'm asking are there chances improving or dissipating towards getting
them off?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You're asking me what I think, or you're asking what
they would tell you if they were being honest.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I'm asking you and your contemporaries, what do y'all peel
from what y'all have read, what y'all have heard, what's
the scuttle but in your profession about how it's looking
for Diddy.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It worse and worse by the day, get worse and
worse by the day, and every every bit of testimony,
I gear it's getting harder and harder for him.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To get off.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I think his chances are well below fifty percent of
beating these charges.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
And you and I talked about this last week. Perhaps
there is a way this jury looks.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
At this, doesn't believe certain witnesses, and does what we
call a compromise verdict. We're going to convict on some
things that are lesser charges, and maybe not on racketeering.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's perhaps something that might happen here.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
But I got to tell you, steven A, what I'm
seeing here is this racketeering case being built very well.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
That's the main part of this case.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
When you have witnesses coming up and talking about he
did this violence, he did that violence.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We expected that.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
What I think is really interesting to me is how
these witnesses are testifying that he would use that. I'm
going to say this about you. If you don't do this,
brought a Glenn, You're coming with me. You're gonna do
this with Kid Cutty. You're going to talk to him
and tell him not to talk to play. This is
exactly what people say happen in regal cases, and you
got a jury who might be looking at it like well,
(10:04):
regal cases.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think of mob cases.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I think people have to understand what do you think
happens in those cases? It's a mob boss allegedly telling
somebody else to do this, do that. I'm not getting
my hands dirty. You're going to do all these things
and I'm directing and Stephen Ay, there's another part of
this that I think might resonate with this jury that
I think we have to keep our eye on. These
are women, in particular, young women coming forward talking about
(10:27):
the forced labor, the violence perpetrated on them, the ways
in which they were forced to do things at gunpoint.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
If you believe Capricuin.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Clark, if you talk about what Capricorn Clark talked about
the things that he would say about them, will jurors
look at this and say he's treating women like this?
And when we think about a mob case, we think
different men trying to prove things to other men. I
wonder if there will be a dynamic of this of
these young women in Thea's case somebody in their twenties
(10:56):
trying to work in the music business and all of
a sudden realizing they're in these situations.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know, I appeared on Law and Order recently. You know,
I got killed.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I got killed in the first five minutes, you know,
But it was it was on my bucket list because
I'm a Law and Order fanatic. I always watched the show, right,
and we often see the defense coming to the prosecution
looking to make a deal, okay, and sometimes a prosecution
except it because obviously you represent the state, and you know,
(11:26):
the quicker the case ends, the less money you have
to spend, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
In real life, in the real world, what if Diddy's.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Defense came and went to the prosecution and saying, they're
not looking pretty good for us, but you know what,
we like to plead or lesser charge. This prosecution the
Southern District of New York. They strike me as a bunch.
They're gone for blood. They want this man. They ain't
trying to settle. They don't want to settlement. That's how
That's what I'm getting from this to that.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
You say, what that ship has sailed, that deal ship?
I think has sailed. Look, stephen A, I'm not a
part of their office, so I can't say if somebody
there might say, hey, if here's what we don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
We're in week two, week three of this case.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
If something goes really wrong for the prosecution that's unexpected,
that might change this dynamic. But if it keeps going
the way it's going, I would say that ship sailed.
That ship probably sailed not long after the raid or not,
maybe a couple months after they started whispering things of charges,
because for him, the more he has been defiant, the
more you put a prosecution in a place of well,
(12:26):
he's been saying for months, these are all lies.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This isn't true. I didn't assult anybody. I didn't do
any of this.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And now the prosecution has to deal not only with
their case, but the fact that in the public opinion,
this case has taken on huge attention, and you don't
want to be perceived as I'm letting them off the hook,
especially if you have a strong case.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So in my opinion, that ship has sailed.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Unless there is something that we don't know or something
unexpected happens for the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I kind of agree with you because I believe even
if they don't do anempt an exemplary job of proving
sex trafficking and racketeer, I think they've made such a
case for depicting him as a monster that you're gonna
have jurors that say, no, his ass going to jail,
the hell with it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And I'm gonna say he's guilty for this too.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I mean, I really feel like it can get that bad.
But let me move on to this next qust because
I know you got to get you out of here.
Sugar Night called in the CNN last night and said
Comb should take the stand in his own defense. Combs
actually did back in two thousand and one, if you remember,
when he testified in the Manhattan nightclub shooting that sent
rapper Shine to prison for ten years. Combs was acquitted
(13:29):
of all charges in that case. By the way, we've
got to mention that. But Ryan Smith, is it possible
that he'll end up taking the stand in this trial?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And should he? Would you advise him to do so?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I don't want to get on the wrong side of
Shugar now, that's number one.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
But look, neither do we.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Neither do we.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But I'll tell you what that is a last resort
of last resorts. I know that people watch Long Look
Steven amalaan order fan two. I know people watch shows
like they see people take the stand. Sometimes they see
people or his mind's being changed. Something comes out. Oh
my god, I can't believe it. That is a rarity.
This is something you do not want. The moment he
(14:11):
takes the stand and opens his mouth, everything about his
life is fair game, including stuff that they could not
bring into court. Now he's opening his mouth, Let's ask
him about those things that wouldn't have been admissible because
he opened his mouth on him. Once he opens the
door on some of that stuff, things that he might
not even be thinking about, ways in which he might
want to defend himself that his lawyers tell him not
(14:31):
to say, but maybe he could say, because anything can
happen on that stand. Now you're divving yourself into an
even deeper hole. So for me that I do not
think he should do it, I would never advise it.
And honestly, even if everything was against him, I would
still say no, because once you open that door, that
could change everything about what you as a defendant, with
(14:55):
you as a person who's on truck things could happen
to you, and I think it's r for people to
think about it outside of that, like I'm gonna prove myself,
but that is not how it plays out in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Maybe I'm just maybe I'm thinking a little bit differently
because I got to open my mouth for a living.
I mean, you host, I commentate, you know, and so
I'm thinking about, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
God, people accused it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I got the city and listen to all of these
people talk, and I can't.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Say anything in my defense, not for you want, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But steven A. I see you get cross examined. But
now let's imagine you getting cross examined on.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Your own words for days in a row, and not
only that, on things that might have flowed from those
words that you didn't even bring up. That's the problem
a cross examination. You open a door, and that door
can be so much wider than you think.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Let me throw this by you.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I don't know if you've seen the reports percolating right now,
my man, they're talking about how Trump President Donald Trump
has not closed the door on pardoning Pee Diddy for
this sex trafficking and racketeering case.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean, what do you make of that?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Ryan, I mean, and how do you anticipate something like
that could potentially influence the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I don't even know what to say to that.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Okay, So the first thing is, well, if it is convicted,
he can do it.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
We have president can do it. That's number one.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Number two, I wouldn't as a prosecutor, I would not
let that affect me in any way.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Here's the deal. My job is to prosecute the case.
That's it. My job is to prosecute the case.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
If the president chooses to do something else, then he
choose to do something else. Now, some people might be
out there thinking, Okay, if the prosecution here's this, maybe
that makes them want to make a deal. That is
not how I would approach it. If I was a prosecutor,
I would say I can't control those things. What I
can control is the case I prosecute. And also what
I can control is what my office does. And what
(16:46):
my office does is we brought this reco case, and
we brought this sex trafficking case, and because we believe
that we could.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Win it, so we're going to pursue that.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
If something happened in the courtroom to change that, and
we need to make a deal, fine, But I wouldn't
do that on the basis of what someone outside of
the case says, because to me, that's where you start
second guessing yourself, and you erote your case once you
start doing that. So if I'm prosecutors, that's noise. My
case is my case inside the courtroom, and that's what
I focus on.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Any idea, how you think that would influence the defense
or dare I say, a jury if they somehow, some
way became aware that the president is just lurking being
quoted as saying, did he once liked me a lot?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
You know?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I mean, would we got along just fine?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I mean, could you imagine it having any kind of
impact on a jury or the defense and its approach?
Knowing there's a possibility, maybe that's an angle they could
work in a month to come.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I don't think it would have much of an impact
on the defense other than they too have to kind
of go with what's in that courtroom. They're bound by
the in that courtroom. The judge is what matters, the
jury is what matters. Outside actors do not matter. So
for them, they got to focus on that now. Could
they use that later? If did he is convicted trying
to appeal. If there's rumblings about that, maybe that's a
(18:03):
different discussion. But what I really worry about, stephen A,
is what you just said. A juror somehow finding out
about this, you know, I just want to say this
as a person who's practiced law for decades, the courts
are just we don't realize how precious this institution is.
We don't realize how amazing it is that we live
in a society where people can be on trial and
(18:25):
jurors can sit there and they can actually not read anything,
see anything, and take the process so seriously that nothing
outside affects them. It makes me sad that someone on
the outside would say something maybe or not realizing how
that could taint somebody and possibly take this process. Because
I gotta say, stephen A, and this is not me
just saying, this just the greatest process in the world.
(18:47):
And I know a lot of people feel like courts
go against us, go against black folks.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I understand that part of it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I'm just saying, like, the integrity of the court system
is so vital to making these cases in any way fair,
and if we start having people say things on the
outside that could perhaps get to a jur man. That's
disappointing because that's a slippery slope we don't want to
go down.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Before I let you go, Zion Williamson. You see the
accusation that has been leveled against him. A former girl
that he was involved with is saying that he raped
and assaulted her. I believe it was twenty twenty. I
spoke about it a little bit early on the show.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Just listen.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I don't know what the hell has happened. I don't
know what's going on. I wasn't an eyewitness. I can't
I know, I can't speak to it. I just think
that the times that we're living in, when somebody can
make an accusation, I find myself saying, to the guilty,
I hope they throw your ass under the jail. To
those who are innocent and being lied upon, it's sad
(19:44):
because the presumption of guilt in this day and age,
adding a social media and beyond, is going to be
attached to you. What are your thoughts about that as
a legal mind, as a journalist as well, what are
your thoughts about that?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Well, first of all, I look at a situation like this,
and again you said it we're just finding out about this.
We don't know all the details, but the moment I
looked at it, I think it's important to say, first
of all, it's a civil case.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
This is not a criminal case.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
This is someone filing a complaint, making an allegation. I
think the first thing I look at in these situations
and Steve and we see him more and more these days,
was this a consensual relationship that in some way didn't
go the way one party or another planned. Or was
this a situation where there were elements of assault? And
to me, it goes like this. The first thing, and
(20:32):
you mentioned it because the times we live in, I
wouldn't be surprised to see an NBA investigation into this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
They're going to follow what's happening.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And in some way, that's going to follow Zion no
matter how it plays out. The second thing, though, and
I think the more pressing thing for him is this
legal process. I think there is a playbook we've seen
sometimes with folks who say, when these accusations come, they're false,
the baked with I understand that that's essentially what Zion
Williams since people are saying. But I think what's going
to be really important for him is to make sure
(21:01):
that in this case that if it's completely false and
completely baseless, then he's gonna need to make sure he
is saying that specifically and not just saying this person
is lying.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I think what we've learned.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
More and more nowadays is conduct that people have when
one person thinks it's one thing, somebody else thinks it's
something else.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It can be used in these kinds of cases.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
To be real assault, to be real litigation, to have
real civil consequences. So I don't know what happened between
Zion and this particular person, but I think the consequences
here could be very big based on what happened in
that relationship, And I think it's very important for Zion
Williamson and his people to come out and not just
do the thing of hey, this person is false. I
(21:44):
know there might be nuances here, but also to understand
that we live in a society now where people who
make these accusations, we need to be looking at these carefully,
and we need to be making sure that his conduct,
in some ways, if it did cross the line, he
needs to be adresdressing that. He needs to be addressing
that and not simply be dismissing someone if something crossed
(22:04):
the line.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Ryan Smith legal Antler's extraordinaire for ABC News as well
as the.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Sports center host for ESPN.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
My buddy, I appreciate the contribution to the show as always,
my man, take care of yourself and have a wonderful weekend.
I would like to say we'll be talking a little
bit down the road, but it's going to be real
sooner than that, because I'm coming on the finals.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
You know, hit me on speed see you soon.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm ready. I got you, I got you.
Now, let's get to the latest in the federal sex
trafficking and racketeering trial against Sean Diddy Combs. Testimony resumed
this morning from a former assistant using the pseudonym Mia.
This is her second day of testimony where Mia said
Combs physically and sexually assaulted her numerous times when she
worked for him. Mia says that she also felt trapped
(00:25):
with no safe way to report the abuse she suffered.
The former assistant testified she was suspended several times from
her job for different reasons, including accidentally falling asleep after
being awake for days, and reacting to one of Combs's
violent episodes. The jury saw an email Mia received from
human resources following the incident that noted she was suspended
(00:47):
without pay for five days. Mia testified she was told
her suspension was because Combs said she was being insubordinate.
Colmbs is pleaded not guilty the charges that include racketeering, conspiracy,
and sexual trafficking. If convicted on all accounts, he could
face up to life in prison. Joining me now to
discuss this and other elements of the trial this week
(01:08):
is Ryan Smith. Contributed to the show Legal analyst Extraordinayre
for ABC Sports Center Anca as well.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Ryan. How are you man?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
How's everything?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Goodness? See Steven? How you doing man?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh Man?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
This case is crazy. Man, I'm doing well, but I'm
doing a hell of a lot better than Diddy. Let's
get that out the way. It definitely hell of a
lot better than him. I want to pick up from
where I just left off. What's the significance of me
as testimony this morning?
Speaker 4 (01:32):
It's huge, not only from the perspective that she talks
about how she was sexually assaulted by Ditty, which is
a big part of the prosecution's case, but it's also
part of their racketeering case. Part of what they're trying
to prove is a forced labor element of his racketeering case,
essentially saying he had people like me are working for
days in a row under force of threats or cores
and what threats. There's threats that she has over text
(01:55):
message of communications where he's saying I'm gonna tell everything
things like sexual assault that she experienced in her mind
that might be told to Cassie and others that might
hurt her. So what they're trying to put together to
MEA's testimony is a couple of different things. First is
that there was an element of forced labor going on
under Ditty, where people felt like they had to do
things that were extreme under force of like threat or violence.
(02:19):
She talks about how he threw a computer at hers,
through spaghetti at her.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
That concern led her to be in this forced labor situation.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
She's also there to cooperate elements of Cassie story, Cassie
talking about the sexual assaults she went through, and now
Mia talking about what she experienced as part of the
overall case of Ditty having this criminal enterprise, having all
these people working for him, planning certain things, doing certain
things to cover up the crimes they believe he was committed.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So what else stood out to you in court this week?
I mean that seems like more than enough. Was there
anything else that stood out to you over the last.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Timpercorn Clark's testimony that was huge.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I mean, this woman talking about everything she went through
working for him, working with him that contributed to the
elements of kid napping in Arson, because you talk about
kid Cutty, that whole situation we talked about this last week,
stephen A. The idea that Kid cutting feels that he
did he tried to bomb his Porsche. That's the arson part.
So she's talking about all the different relationships that Cassie
(03:13):
have a Kid Cutty, how did he found out and
the reactions he had coming to her house with a gun,
forcing her to go one place. That's part of the force,
coercion and all of this, and then doing these things
like breaking into kid Cutty's house. He talks about everything
that happened there and that seems then assigned to go
and tell him not to talk to the police. All
of this works into this criminal enterprise they're starting to
(03:34):
talk about here, this idea that he owned or operated
and associated this enterprise of doing crimes and had all
these people doing things to help facilitate that. When we
talked last week, we talked about, hey, where is all
of this going. Now we're starting to see stephen a
where all this is going. It's not just about the
accusations of sexual assault, the accusations of being a bad boss,
(03:56):
the accusations of doing things of threatening violence. It's for
prosecutors that he is doing all of these things to
sort of facilitate criminal activity. And then on the other end,
involving all these people to do these things for him,
to either conceal it or to keep it going, and
then doing an under force of threats or coercion, saying
(04:16):
to people like Mia, hey you do or the insinuation is, hey,
you don't do this for me. I'm gonna tell everything
about what happened with you and me. You do so
and somebody else. You don't come with me, I've got
a gun. You got to come with me, even if
you don't want to. This is the prosecution starting to
lay out that most powerful case on racketeering. That's what
they need to get to get the maximum time in jail.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And it's interesting that you bring that up because obviously
when we've had you on, we've had you on covering
this for us, and we really really appreciate it. You
made a point to say, basically, be patient, just wait.
They're just starting to make their case. You know, when
you're talking about him and his behavior domestic violence, that's
not sex, sex trafficking, that's not racketeering. They're laying the
(05:00):
the ground work for the case. You kept emphasizing that.
Right now, how are you feeling about what the government
is doing and how they're doing in presenting this case
against Diddy. What kind of a grade would you give
them right now?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Dig them B plus to A minus, maybe even A.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
And here's why they have their ducks in a row,
and they have their information set and their witnesses from
what we're seeing in court, are testifying very very well.
What do I mean by that, Well, the groundwork part
of it, like you talk about when you first when
we first start talking about this, you asked me how
long this case would last? I said six to eight weeks.
Now they're even saying it could go five weeks. So
this case is picking up steam. The prosecution is not
(05:37):
only efficiently presenting their case because Steve, and you got
to think about this as like people are sitting in
that court room.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Every day for hours hearing this stuff.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
If it drags on and on and on and prosecution
can't be very efficient with their points, you start losing jurors.
They're going fast, they're going smoothly, and they're getting out
information very quickly and very precisely.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
That's helpful for the jury.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Not only that, crossed domination be comes huge here because
these people are getting pressed back.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Let's say, for example, me and capitals. We're going, Yeah, we're.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Getting pressed back on their social media posts, all these
things they posted with Diddy. These witnesses are prepared though
they're talking about, hey, I posted this on this day. Yes,
but it didn't mean I didn't feel this way at
the time. They're talking about with Capricorn Clark, they tried
to press her on the fact up did he have
a gun? Yes, he had a gun. I had to
go with him because they had a gun. That's witness
(06:27):
preparation right there. You don't want that witness getting up
there hemming and hauling, opening up other lines of questioning.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Now, the defense is doing what they can do.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
But what the speed of this case and the witness
testimony I'm reading is showing me are prosecuting witnesses that
are very well prepared, and a prosecuting team that is
slowly and methodically but efficiently building that case for Rico.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And from what I'm seeing so far reading because we're
not able to see it on TV, what I'm reading
so far, they seem to be doing a very good job.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, we're just reading. You're not just reading, you're in
the legal profession. You got sources all over the place.
I know you lived in the Ryan Smith. I mean,
how is the tell us?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Tell us how the legal profession feels.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The defense is doing in light of how good the
prosecution looks right now? What are you hearing about? What
the legal system? I'm talking about your colleagues, your contemporarate lawyers.
What do they feel about how the defense is doing?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Hey, lawyers I know and people I talk to, they
think the defense had an uphill taste to begin with.
I mean this was a tough This is a very
tough taste to be Steve, and you and I have
talked about this before. This prosecution office one of the
best in the world. I mean this is this is
top notch, best lawyers you can get. That's number one.
So you're fighting a really good lawyer on the other side.
The second thing is he gets a lot of bad
(07:44):
facts against him. He's got lots of people coming forward
talking about sexual assault abuse. So he's got a lot
of people talking about the systems, how things ran, how
he's threats and coerdison to get them to do certain things.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
This is the Rico case. So they've got so much
going against them.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
How are they doing from people I talk to, is
doing well because you play the hand that you have.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
That's the key with defense.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think sometimes people think, well, defense lawyers are gonna
come out and have this smoking gun that nobody saw coming.
That's not gonna happen. That's not gonna happen because there's
so many bad facts.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I apologize I wasn't. I didn't mean to ask how
to lawyers your contemporaries feel the defense is doing in
terms of are they doing a good job?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Are they not?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm meant to ask are they do are they confident
they're gonna be able to get this man off?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Asking to win this case because you can have lawyers,
you can have lawyers there. I think they're doing good
based on the hand of debt, they're doing an excellent job.
I'm asking are there chances improving or dissipating towards getting
them off?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You're asking me what I think, or you're asking what
they would tell you if they were being honest.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I'm asking you and your contemporaries, what do y'all peel
from what y'all have read, what y'all have heard, what's
the scuttle but in your profession about how it's looking
for Diddy.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It worse and worse by the day, get worse and
worse by the day, and every every bit of testimony,
I gear it's getting harder and harder for him.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To get off.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I think his chances are well below fifty percent of
beating these charges.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
And you and I talked about this last week. Perhaps
there is a way this jury looks.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
At this, doesn't believe certain witnesses, and does what we
call a compromise verdict. We're going to convict on some
things that are lesser charges, and maybe not on racketeering.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's perhaps something that might happen here.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
But I got to tell you, steven A, what I'm
seeing here is this racketeering case being built very well.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
That's the main part of this case.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
When you have witnesses coming up and talking about he
did this violence, he did that violence.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We expected that.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
What I think is really interesting to me is how
these witnesses are testifying that he would use that. I'm
going to say this about you. If you don't do this,
brought a Glenn, You're coming with me. You're gonna do
this with Kid Cutty. You're going to talk to him
and tell him not to talk to play. This is
exactly what people say happen in regal cases, and you
got a jury who might be looking at it like well,
(10:04):
regal cases.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think of mob cases.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I think people have to understand what do you think
happens in those cases? It's a mob boss allegedly telling
somebody else to do this, do that. I'm not getting
my hands dirty. You're going to do all these things
and I'm directing and Stephen Ay, there's another part of
this that I think might resonate with this jury that
I think we have to keep our eye on. These
are women, in particular, young women coming forward talking about
(10:27):
the forced labor, the violence perpetrated on them, the ways
in which they were forced to do things at gunpoint.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
If you believe Capricuin.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Clark, if you talk about what Capricorn Clark talked about
the things that he would say about them, will jurors
look at this and say he's treating women like this?
And when we think about a mob case, we think
different men trying to prove things to other men. I
wonder if there will be a dynamic of this of
these young women in Thea's case somebody in their twenties
(10:56):
trying to work in the music business and all of
a sudden realizing they're in these situations.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know, I appeared on Law and Order recently. You know,
I got killed.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I got killed in the first five minutes, you know,
But it was it was on my bucket list because
I'm a Law and Order fanatic. I always watched the show, right,
and we often see the defense coming to the prosecution
looking to make a deal, okay, and sometimes a prosecution
except it because obviously you represent the state, and you know,
(11:26):
the quicker the case ends, the less money you have
to spend, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
In real life, in the real world, what if Diddy's.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Defense came and went to the prosecution and saying, they're
not looking pretty good for us, but you know what,
we like to plead or lesser charge. This prosecution the
Southern District of New York. They strike me as a bunch.
They're gone for blood. They want this man. They ain't
trying to settle. They don't want to settlement. That's how
That's what I'm getting from this to that.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
You say, what that ship has sailed, that deal ship?
I think has sailed. Look, stephen A, I'm not a
part of their office, so I can't say if somebody
there might say, hey, if here's what we don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
We're in week two, week three of this case.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
If something goes really wrong for the prosecution that's unexpected,
that might change this dynamic. But if it keeps going
the way it's going, I would say that ship sailed.
That ship probably sailed not long after the raid or not,
maybe a couple months after they started whispering things of charges,
because for him, the more he has been defiant, the
more you put a prosecution in a place of well,
(12:26):
he's been saying for months, these are all lies.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This isn't true. I didn't assult anybody. I didn't do
any of this.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And now the prosecution has to deal not only with
their case, but the fact that in the public opinion,
this case has taken on huge attention, and you don't
want to be perceived as I'm letting them off the hook,
especially if you have a strong case.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So in my opinion, that ship has sailed.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Unless there is something that we don't know or something
unexpected happens for the prosecution.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I kind of agree with you because I believe even
if they don't do anempt an exemplary job of proving
sex trafficking and racketeer, I think they've made such a
case for depicting him as a monster that you're gonna
have jurors that say, no, his ass going to jail,
the hell with it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And I'm gonna say he's guilty for this too.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I mean, I really feel like it can get that bad.
But let me move on to this next qust because
I know you got to get you out of here.
Sugar Night called in the CNN last night and said
Comb should take the stand in his own defense. Combs
actually did back in two thousand and one, if you remember,
when he testified in the Manhattan nightclub shooting that sent
rapper Shine to prison for ten years. Combs was acquitted
(13:29):
of all charges in that case. By the way, we've
got to mention that. But Ryan Smith, is it possible
that he'll end up taking the stand in this trial?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And should he? Would you advise him to do so?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I don't want to get on the wrong side of
Shugar now, that's number one.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
But look, neither do we.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Neither do we.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But I'll tell you what that is a last resort
of last resorts. I know that people watch Long Look
Steven amalaan order fan two. I know people watch shows
like they see people take the stand. Sometimes they see
people or his mind's being changed. Something comes out. Oh
my god, I can't believe it. That is a rarity.
This is something you do not want. The moment he
(14:11):
takes the stand and opens his mouth, everything about his
life is fair game, including stuff that they could not
bring into court. Now he's opening his mouth, Let's ask
him about those things that wouldn't have been admissible because
he opened his mouth on him. Once he opens the
door on some of that stuff, things that he might
not even be thinking about, ways in which he might
want to defend himself that his lawyers tell him not
(14:31):
to say, but maybe he could say, because anything can
happen on that stand. Now you're divving yourself into an
even deeper hole. So for me that I do not
think he should do it, I would never advise it.
And honestly, even if everything was against him, I would
still say no, because once you open that door, that
could change everything about what you as a defendant, with
(14:55):
you as a person who's on truck things could happen
to you, and I think it's r for people to
think about it outside of that, like I'm gonna prove myself,
but that is not how it plays out in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Maybe I'm just maybe I'm thinking a little bit differently
because I got to open my mouth for a living.
I mean, you host, I commentate, you know, and so
I'm thinking about, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
God, people accused it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I got the city and listen to all of these
people talk, and I can't.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Say anything in my defense, not for you want, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But steven A. I see you get cross examined. But
now let's imagine you getting cross examined on.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Your own words for days in a row, and not
only that, on things that might have flowed from those
words that you didn't even bring up. That's the problem
a cross examination. You open a door, and that door
can be so much wider than you think.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Let me throw this by you.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I don't know if you've seen the reports percolating right now,
my man, they're talking about how Trump President Donald Trump
has not closed the door on pardoning Pee Diddy for
this sex trafficking and racketeering case.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean, what do you make of that?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Ryan, I mean, and how do you anticipate something like
that could potentially influence the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I don't even know what to say to that.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Okay, So the first thing is, well, if it is convicted,
he can do it.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
We have president can do it. That's number one.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Number two, I wouldn't as a prosecutor, I would not
let that affect me in any way.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Here's the deal. My job is to prosecute the case.
That's it. My job is to prosecute the case.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
If the president chooses to do something else, then he
choose to do something else. Now, some people might be
out there thinking, Okay, if the prosecution here's this, maybe
that makes them want to make a deal. That is
not how I would approach it. If I was a prosecutor,
I would say I can't control those things. What I
can control is the case I prosecute. And also what
I can control is what my office does. And what
(16:46):
my office does is we brought this reco case, and
we brought this sex trafficking case, and because we believe
that we could.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Win it, so we're going to pursue that.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
If something happened in the courtroom to change that, and
we need to make a deal, fine, But I wouldn't
do that on the basis of what someone outside of
the case says, because to me, that's where you start
second guessing yourself, and you erote your case once you
start doing that. So if I'm prosecutors, that's noise. My
case is my case inside the courtroom, and that's what
I focus on.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Any idea, how you think that would influence the defense
or dare I say, a jury if they somehow, some
way became aware that the president is just lurking being
quoted as saying, did he once liked me a lot?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
You know?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I mean, would we got along just fine?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I mean, could you imagine it having any kind of
impact on a jury or the defense and its approach?
Knowing there's a possibility, maybe that's an angle they could
work in a month to come.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I don't think it would have much of an impact
on the defense other than they too have to kind
of go with what's in that courtroom. They're bound by
the in that courtroom. The judge is what matters, the
jury is what matters. Outside actors do not matter. So
for them, they got to focus on that now. Could
they use that later? If did he is convicted trying
to appeal. If there's rumblings about that, maybe that's a
(18:03):
different discussion. But what I really worry about, stephen A,
is what you just said. A juror somehow finding out
about this, you know, I just want to say this
as a person who's practiced law for decades, the courts
are just we don't realize how precious this institution is.
We don't realize how amazing it is that we live
in a society where people can be on trial and
(18:25):
jurors can sit there and they can actually not read anything,
see anything, and take the process so seriously that nothing
outside affects them. It makes me sad that someone on
the outside would say something maybe or not realizing how
that could taint somebody and possibly take this process. Because
I gotta say, stephen A, and this is not me
just saying, this just the greatest process in the world.
(18:47):
And I know a lot of people feel like courts
go against us, go against black folks.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I understand that part of it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I'm just saying, like, the integrity of the court system
is so vital to making these cases in any way fair,
and if we start having people say things on the
outside that could perhaps get to a jur man. That's
disappointing because that's a slippery slope we don't want to
go down.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Before I let you go, Zion Williamson. You see the
accusation that has been leveled against him. A former girl
that he was involved with is saying that he raped
and assaulted her. I believe it was twenty twenty. I
spoke about it a little bit early on the show.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Just listen.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I don't know what the hell has happened. I don't
know what's going on. I wasn't an eyewitness. I can't
I know, I can't speak to it. I just think
that the times that we're living in, when somebody can
make an accusation, I find myself saying, to the guilty,
I hope they throw your ass under the jail. To
those who are innocent and being lied upon, it's sad
(19:44):
because the presumption of guilt in this day and age,
adding a social media and beyond, is going to be
attached to you. What are your thoughts about that as
a legal mind, as a journalist as well, what are
your thoughts about that?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Well, first of all, I look at a situation like this,
and again you said it we're just finding out about this.
We don't know all the details, but the moment I
looked at it, I think it's important to say, first
of all, it's a civil case.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
This is not a criminal case.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
This is someone filing a complaint, making an allegation. I
think the first thing I look at in these situations
and Steve and we see him more and more these days,
was this a consensual relationship that in some way didn't
go the way one party or another planned. Or was
this a situation where there were elements of assault? And
to me, it goes like this. The first thing, and
(20:32):
you mentioned it because the times we live in, I
wouldn't be surprised to see an NBA investigation into this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
They're going to follow what's happening.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And in some way, that's going to follow Zion no
matter how it plays out. The second thing, though, and
I think the more pressing thing for him is this
legal process. I think there is a playbook we've seen
sometimes with folks who say, when these accusations come, they're false,
the baked with I understand that that's essentially what Zion
Williams since people are saying. But I think what's going
to be really important for him is to make sure
(21:01):
that in this case that if it's completely false and
completely baseless, then he's gonna need to make sure he
is saying that specifically and not just saying this person
is lying.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I think what we've learned.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
More and more nowadays is conduct that people have when
one person thinks it's one thing, somebody else thinks it's
something else.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It can be used in these kinds of cases.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
To be real assault, to be real litigation, to have
real civil consequences. So I don't know what happened between
Zion and this particular person, but I think the consequences
here could be very big based on what happened in
that relationship, And I think it's very important for Zion
Williamson and his people to come out and not just
do the thing of hey, this person is false. I
(21:44):
know there might be nuances here, but also to understand
that we live in a society now where people who
make these accusations, we need to be looking at these carefully,
and we need to be making sure that his conduct,
in some ways, if it did cross the line, he
needs to be adresdressing that. He needs to be addressing
that and not simply be dismissing someone if something crossed
(22:04):
the line.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Ryan Smith legal Antler's extraordinaire for ABC News as well
as the.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Sports center host for ESPN.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
My buddy, I appreciate the contribution to the show as always,
my man, take care of yourself and have a wonderful weekend.
I would like to say we'll be talking a little
bit down the road, but it's going to be real
sooner than that, because I'm coming on the finals.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
You know, hit me on speed see you soon.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm ready. I got you, I got you.
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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