Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.
A detailed and energetic conversation between Stephen A. Smith and NBA insider Brian Windhorst, focused on the 2025 NBA Draft and its implications for various teams. Here's a breakdown of the key highlights and insights:
🏀 Top Draft Picks & Analysis 1. Cooper Flagg (No. 1 to Dallas Mavericks)
- Compared to Tim Duncan in terms of impact potential.
- Described as a “perfect modern player” — versatile, defensive-minded, and capable of initiating offense.
- May not be a high-volume scorer or Rookie of the Year due to team context (Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson).
- Could drive winning early, which is rare for rookies.
2. Dylan Harper (No. 2 to San Antonio Spurs)
- Talented and versatile guard.
- Spurs are building a positionless, modern roster similar to the Oklahoma City Thunder.
- Concerns about a crowded backcourt (De’Aaron Fox, Stefon Cassell, Devin Vassell).
- Spurs took the best available talent, not drafting for fit.
🔥 Other Draft Highlights 🟢 Philadelphia 76ers
- Drafted Edgecombe instead of Ace Bailey due to Bailey’s refusal to work out for teams.
- Edgecombe impressed playing for the Bahamian national team.
- Daryl Morey emphasized depth in the backcourt and Joel Embiid’s expected return.
🟣 Utah Jazz
- Took a risk on Ace Bailey and Walter Clayton Jr.
- Bailey is high-risk, high-reward; Clayton impressed in the NCAA tournament.
- Utah is talent-starved and needs to take big swings.
🟡 New Orleans Pelicans
- Traded up to draft Derrick Queen, giving up a valuable 2026 unprotected pick swap.
- Criticized by Bill Simmons as one of the “dumbest trades of the decade.”
- Windhorst notes the influence of Troy Weaver in the decision.
- High upside with Queen and Jeremiah Fears, but risky if Zion gets injured again.
🏆 Winners of the Draft
- San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper + Carter Bryant (compared to OG Anunoby).
- Atlanta Hawks: Got a top-20 talent (Arsenal) at 23 and a valuable future pick.
- Utah Jazz: Took bold swings on Bailey and Clayton Jr.
❌ Losers / Question Marks
- Phoenix Suns: Traded two first-round picks for Mark Williams, who failed a physical with the Lakers.
- Drafted Malik from Duke (a solid pick).
- Strategy questioned due to asset depletion and win-now pressure.
🧠Final Thoughts
- Windhorst emphasizes that while some trades seem questionable now, player development and team context will ultimately determine success.
- The NBA offseason remains unpredictable, and more moves are expected.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I wanted to get started with Round one of the
NBA Draft last night. That began with a move that
surprised absolutely no one, and that is Cooper Flag out
of Duke going first overall to the Dallas Mavericks. There's
a lot of stuff to get into. Cooper Flag going
number one, Dylan Harper going number two. Obviously, that was
a big, big deal for the San Antonio Spurs, along
(00:25):
with a bevy of other moves that were made to
New Orleans Pelicans under the new leadership of Joe Dumars,
made a whole bunch of moves. To say the least
of Philadelphia seventy six is was supposedly in a pitch.
The Phoenix Suns made a deal drafting a big man
and then acquiring another big man and Mark Williams from Charlotte.
There's so much stuff to get into, and who better
to get into it than who I'm about to get
(00:47):
into it with it now, joining me now to discuss
the draft and all the other moves teams made in
round one last night is NBA senior writer extraordinary Inside
of the one and only Brian Winterhors right here on
the seat in a Smith show.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What's up, Wendy, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, we're in the middle of the most crazy
time of the year in the NBA. So teams are changing,
we got a new champion, this is this is in
a lot of ways, the best time of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, listen, you look a little bit sleepy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm not gonna knock you for that, but forgive me
if I don't feel sorry for you, because you know
how exhausted I am. I can tell you that much.
But we are here. Let's get Let's get right to it, Wendy.
Let's begin with Cooper Flag going to the Dallas Mavericks.
What does this mean for the team in the Western
Conferencing estimation?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
You know, I really feel like this was such an
incredible turn of events. It is very rare that we
see a team this established get a player this good
in the draft. I don't know if it's quite Tim
Duncan going to the Spurs, but it's possible we could
look back and compare it to that, because not only
is Cooper Flag a tremendous talent, but he is the
(01:53):
perfect modern player. And what I mean by that is
he has great size, he can play the multiple different
positions and one of the things that teams want today
is they want a big who can take the ball
out the backboard and bring it up the court start
the offense so they can flow into their offense. Draymond
Green pretty much redefined that role. Everybody's trying to do it.
(02:16):
You know, Al Parren Shan Gun for example, this guy
who's become an All Star doing stuff like that. Jokic's
becoming a three time MVP doing stuff like that. Cooper
Flag is not a center, but he can do that.
So not only do you have a player who's perfectly modern,
he also wants to defend the hardest thing and stephen A.
You know this from when young players tends to be.
(02:38):
The more talented they are, the less they care about defense.
They have to come in the NBA and learn defense.
This guy wants to defend. Even when I first watched
him playing in high school, I noticed that he really
cares on the defensive end of the ball, and having
that coming into the league is very important. And then third,
you look at this team. They have Hall of Fame
(03:01):
at center and point guard. He comes in as a
versatile wing, combo forward, whatever you want to call him.
He fits into what they have like it'd be one
thing if he was duplicating a position. When Kyrie Irving
is healthy, he fits in there. And so you said
the other day that you thought that Dallas could be
(03:22):
the biggest challenger to Oklahoma City in the West. Obviously
that comes along with the asterisks of Kyrie, because we
know that you don't just spring back off of off
of an ACL when you're ready to play that you're
the same player. But that is not the hottest take
you've ever had. We'll just leave it at them.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know, there are people out there that are being
critical of Cooper Flag from this perspective, and I see, No,
I don't understand it because I think the kid is
a stud. There's only four freshmen in the history of
college basketball that have been named National Player of the Year.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
He's obviously one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But I'm looking at this kid right now and I
love what he brings to the table.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But he's not the greatest.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Even though he got he shot thirty eight percent from
three point range. He's not a marksman per se. And
so when people look at him, obviously he's talented, he's athletic,
he's gifted as a basketball player, and he also happens
to be white. They think about Larry Bird and then
that's that's just fodder for the critics to say, no
way in hell, he ain't that dude. I don't think
(04:22):
he's a Larry Bird type either, because he's not that
kind of scorer. But I do think he's gifted enough
to be whatever the hell he wants to be. Considering
the fact that he's gifted is that he is at
this age of eighteen.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I agree, if you're expecting him to score twenty five
twenty eight points a game coming out of the gate,
that's not gonna happen. Not only that he's got other
scorers on his team, and we haven't talked about Klay
Thompson at all. I mean, Klay Thompson is a shooter
on that roster. So look, it's even possible, stephen A,
that he may not even win Rookie of the Year.
You know, they're you know, Ace Bailey or somebody else
(04:56):
you know, you know, may get on a team where
he might average twenty eight point it's twenty five points
and put up huge numbers and you might see Cooper
flag because of the other guys on this team and
because his role is not be a high score in
a lot of way. A lot of times that defines
when people think of rookies is how much they score.
So yeah, if you're gonna hold them to the standard
that he's gonna shoot the ball like Larry Bird and
(05:18):
create and have all that offensive versatility, you are probably
gonna be underwhelmed. But in terms of his overall impact
on the game, I mean, he has the potential. I mean, look,
I'll say is this as you know, it is very
rare for rookies to drive winning. Lebron didn't make I mean,
Lebron instantly made the Cavs better, but he didn't make
(05:38):
the playoffs till his third year. Luka Doncic again at
one of the biggest impact players, he didn't make the
playoffs I think until his third year. Kevin Durant he
didn't make the playoffs I think until his third year.
You know, you can come in and help your team,
but it you know, the idea that you're going to
come in and drive winning from day one. That doesn't
happen with rookies. I believe this player on this team
(06:00):
and he can help drive winning, and that should be
what the standard is.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
More than anything, Let's go to the number two pick,
Dylan Harper. I know the Spurs had a couple of
picks in the first round. They picked Carter Bryant with
the fourteenth pick, But that Dylan Harper.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Is he that good? I think he is. I think
he's talented.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I think that what I'm seeing from the San Antonio
Spurs is that they're a team that's trying to emulate
the Oklahoma City Thunder to some degree in terms of
having players that are interchangeable parts. Player is capable of
playing multiple positions. I view Dylan Harper as one of
those dudes that's versatile enough to make some noise at
either guard spot.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Talk to me about your thoughts about that pick.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, so the Spurs, definitely we're gonna have a little
bit of a crowded backcourt here because they're heavily invested
in dearon Fox. They traded three first round picks for him,
and I believe are going to expend Yeah, they're going
to extend him to the two to two hundred million
dollars in the next few weeks. They've obviously got a
(07:00):
fan Castle, who's the reigning rookie of the Year, who's
a combo guard. They've got Devin Vessel, who they've invested heavily.
You know, right now he's actually their highest paid player.
And then now they've drafted Dylan Harper. Now you can say,
I don't know if all those guys are going to stay.
And I mean, already it looks like there's no room
for Chris Paul. You know, I don't know where Chris
(07:21):
Paul's been up. He's actually gonna be one of the
more interesting free agents. They do have a little bit
of a of a crowded backcourt there, but they're gonna
be big into positional versatility. If you listen to Brian Wright,
their general manager, last night, he addressed this question and
he said, yeah, if you look at the game traditionally,
we have too many guards. If you look at the
(07:41):
game in the modern era, in the era where there's
you know, you're you're putting basketball players on the court
and picking out matchups. We like what we're at. And
by the way, it helps when you have a center
in Victor Webberinyama who can play like a wing and
who can you know, bring the ball to court as
well and and create a little bit offensively. So I
(08:01):
do think there could be some moments there. I don't
think he's an ideal fit. But one thing that I
know talking to scouts from a talent standpoint, this was
in a lot of ways a two player draft. Now,
just because people think that in June twenty twenty five
doesn't mean that's the reality that it'll look like a
year or four years from now. But a lot of
people felt that it was Cooper, it was Harper, and
(08:22):
then there was a golf with everybody else. And so
the Spurs with the number two pick, took the most
talented player. And with where they're at and they're building,
they can't be drafting for fit. When you have the
number two pick, you take the most talented player and
you figure out the fit later. And that's probably what
they're going to do.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
One of the things that one of the people that
was making noise was this kid, Ace Bailey, who was
considered one of the top three talents in the draft,
but because he had refused to be interviewed or work
out for several teams, you know, several you know, a
couple of teams passed on him before he was taken.
We know that the kid is good, is gifted and
what have you. My position was no one anybody it
(09:00):
can be justified in taking him, except the Philadelphia seventy
six Ers after what happened with Ben Simmons. You can't
take a chance on an unknown at the number three pick.
If you're the Philadelphia seventy six ers, that is the
one team that did not have that latitude. And sure
enough they were smart enough not to do it. And
they took this kid, Edgecomb, you know. And so I'm
looking at him and I'm saying, Okay, I believe in
(09:21):
this kid and his potential, this kid out of bailor
shooting guard out of Baila.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
What were your thoughts about how to Sixers handle their draft?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, so, I mean Darryl Moury said last night after
the draft, he said he thinks that they have one
of the best backcourts in the NBA. Now when you look,
you know, not just starting but their whole across. So
you think about Tyrese Maxi, you think about Paul George,
You think about Jared McCain, their first round pick last year,
who was playing like a Rookie of the Year candidate
until he hurt his knee. And you look at edgecumb
(09:50):
who they've now drafted. You know, the thing about Edgecomb
that you know where I got positive feedback was, you know,
he played for the Baha Manian national team last year
with the bus of NBA guys, with DeAndre Aiden, with
Buddy Heal, with Clay Thompson, and like, there were stretches
of games where he was the best player on the
court and that was up against you know, top teams.
(10:12):
I mean, they almost qualified for the Olympics. They got,
I think that the championship game of their regional to
try to qualify for the Olympics, and so there's reason
to believe in him. They obviously were on the fence
about as Bailey stephen A because they really wanted to
bring as Bailey in for a workout. That was the
only workout that based that Bailey schedule. Of course didn't
(10:35):
matter because he canceled it. And so, you know, I
think the most relevant thing that Daryl Morey said last
night after the game or after the draft was that
they expect Joel and B to be ready by training camp.
Now before before I even see your face on this,
expecting Joel and B to be ready's a statement that
we have heard before, but we haven't really had any
(10:56):
update at all after his knee surgery, so that was
at least some sort of update. Yeah, and here's the
other thing. The Philly could have traded this pick. Okay,
like there was definite interest in moving up into this spot,
either for Bailey or somebody else. But with what's happened
to Philly with trading picks, they don't. They don't operate
(11:19):
in a vacuum.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Don't take a chance, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So Edgecombe was probably the safer pick when it comes
to Bailey. Utah they have probably bottom three overall talent
in the league and they're in Salt Lake City. They
cannot afford to worry about positional fit or or whether
(11:41):
or not a player wants to be in Utah. If
you wait for players who announce they want to be
in Utah, you're not going to feel the team. Okay,
let's just be honest. I live in the Midwest. I'm
not throwing stones. They had to do what they had
to do.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Listen, and I got no problem with what you taught
did Daddy Agent and obviously Son know what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ace Bailey and Walter Klay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
The way I saw Walter Clayton Junior play during the
NCAA tournament and win the national lead in Florida to
national championship.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I like what they do it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I'm a big fan of Jeremiah Fears out of Oklahoma.
I love the fact that the Pelicans pick somebody like
him up. I think that he has Kyrie Irvin potential.
He's got to develop a shot, but my lord, that
brother can handle the rocket. He's spectacular in the open court.
I love watching him play. Let me transition to the
Pelicans since I brought them up, and I want to
play this sound for you from Bill Simmons, because Bill
(12:31):
Simmons was on a podcast and he was talking about
the Pelicans and what the Pelicans elected to do with
you know, moving up, you know, trading up to get
this kid queen out of Maryland and what have you
with Atlanta. I mean, Joe Dumars is getting criticized heavily
about making this decision. I want you to listen to
(12:52):
what Bill Simmons had to say, and I want you
to react to that. Play this for me, guys.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
This was when I lost my mind. I think I
blacked out. I'm so glad the NBA can still give us.
These New Orleans trades up ten spots so they could
take Derek Queen, and they give up their unprotected twenty
twenty six first round pick swap that they have with
Milwaukee where they have the favorable whatever the better.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Pick is they keep.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
They send that to Atlanta, who had to be deliriously happy, like,
we only have to move down ten spots and we
get an unprotected This was one of the five dumbest
trades of this decade.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I was speechless. I just can't believe it. And who
is it? It's our guy, Joe Dumars, and now he just.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Traded away their unprotected twenty twenty six pick house they're
in the West. What the fuck does he think's gonna
happen next year?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Do you think they're gonna be a five seed? What
is he doing?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
They should have shown the Hawks war room as guys
are taking their shirts off and doing this and fucking
popping champagne on each other. They might have the championship belt.
Now a biggest mess of a team. I think this
is it. I think giving away next year's first round
pick and making it unprotected, I think they grabbed the belt.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Before you comment, Wendy. I will tell you this. It
was risky, no doubt. And Bill Simmons certainly was certainly
was making some sense. I like Queen because I watched
him during the NCAA tournament. Didn't mind, didn't pay much
attention to the fact that the Repelicans had moved up
to get him. That's a good point, because you're in
the West. What you think you gonna do next year?
I think it was insurance in case Zion Williamson goes out,
(14:23):
even though he's not the player that Zion Williamson is.
I think it was insurance in that regard. But I
also want to say this, this is the same Joe Dumars. Yes,
he made a huge, huge mistake by by not drafting
Carmelo Anthony years ago because he had Tayshawn Prince at
that small forward spot and and and drafted someone else's
(14:45):
number two. But he did go to six conference finals,
six consecutive conference finals, back to back NBA Finals appearances,
and won a championship. That's the same Jude Joe Dumars
we're talking about here. So I just wanted to row
that out before I'll let you comment about the decision
that Joe Dumas had to make.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
What could you tell us about this decision?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, let's draw a line here on the Pelicans. On
one side, Let's point out that they walk away from
this draft with Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen. From a
talent standpoint, any team would be happy with that. And
I think you have to evaluate that as their draft night.
Where people are getting on them is the price that
they paid to move up from the twenty third pick
(15:28):
to the thirteenth pick, and specifically that it gives the
Hawks an opportunity to either have the Bucks pick next year,
which I'm not sure what the Bucks are going to
look like right now. Next year, maybe they'll be a
playoff team. I don't know what they're going to look like.
And the Pelicans, who have not been a reliable playoff
team in the West and the Western Conference is a beast.
(15:49):
So I'm not gonna lie you, stephen A. I had
executives text me today saying that this was the worst
Draft day trade since Luka Doncic. So, but that's looking
at the value of the trade. That's not looking at
the value of the player. What you are seeing here,
people are talking about Joe Dumars. What you're seeing here
right now is the imprint of Troy Weaver. Troy Weaver,
(16:14):
who was the general manager in Detroit last year, he
spent the year working with the Wizards, and he has
been hired to be Joe Dumar's right hand man. Look
at what they've done in the last two days. They
traded a dated to deal with the Wizards where they
traded for Jordan Poole. You don't think they have insnent
to Jordan Pool. Troy Weaver was there every day. Okay.
The second thing is Troy Weaver is from Washington DC.
(16:35):
In fact, it was Troy Weaver that recruited Carmelo Anthony
to Syracuse all those years ago. He lives at Washington
d C. Troy Weaver's son works for the University of
Maryland program. Who knows how many games that Troy Weaver
was at to see Derek Queen. I'm not saying Joe
Dumars wast in love with Derek Queen. But this is
Troy Weaver who, Yeah, he had some mistakes in Detroit,
(16:58):
but he also built the bone of that team that
is now taken off. And he also helped build the
bones of the first contending team that they've had in
Oklahoma City. So I think it's it's both fair to
say they walked out of this draft with a great
two picks in the top in the lottery and yet
(17:20):
also left themselves exposed to next season. They are now
going to play next season with a little bit of
the cloud hanging over their head because if they have
a bad year, if Zion gets hurt again and missus
a bunch of games and they end up back of
the lottery, they are in big trouble of having egg
on their face. But let's let's first watch Derek Queen
before we admit that you try to, you know, brand
(17:40):
this as a terrible decision.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Totally fair. I only got a couple of minutes left, Windy.
Let's get right to it. Winners and losers in this draft.
Give me your winners and then give me your losers.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well, you mentioned the Spurs the wing that they drafted
Carter Bryant. Like, I am not a draft expert, but
I have people that are who have compared him to
OG and Aobi. So you get Dylan Harper and that
type of three and D wing defender which are always
in in vital demand. In the NBA. I think they
(18:10):
have to feel good about themselves. I think the Hawks
feel good about themselves. Number One, Again, I am not
a draft expert. I'm not going to sit here and
give you the finer points of Ason Newle's game. But
nobody that I saw had him outside the top twenty.
A lot of people had him inside the top fifteen.
They get him at twenty three. Well, also getting this
(18:30):
valuable asset from the Pelicans a day after they got
Chris aps Porzingis for a song. They traded a pick
to get him. That's why I included in the draft,
and they have a twenty million dollar trade exception that
they're going hunting for. I think the Hawks, in the
Eastern Conference, where we're seeing some teams have to take
a step back due to injuries, are potentially in the
process of taking a step forward. So the Hawks and
(18:53):
the Spurs to me, and also I'm going to give
the Jazz some credit here. You mentioned Walter Clayton. I
can't compare Walter Clayton and the other guy's taking around him.
I'm not that kind of expert, but I watched NCAA
tournament and I'd want that guy on my team. They
liked him, see you right, They moved up three spots
to get him. They went into the draft saying we
(19:15):
want Walter Clayton, and obviously Ace Bailey is one of
the most talented players in the draft. Utah, they are
bereft of impact players, and they drafted two guys with
the potential to be impacts in different ways. So I
think I would say Utah had a good night as well.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Last question, Phoenix, your thoughts about them is one thing
to get to draft this Malowich out of Duke who
I like.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I loved that pick by Phoenix, so I thought that
was good.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Giving up a first round pick for Mark Williams, who
failed the physical supposedly when the Lakers had traded a
Dalton connect and a few other assets in order to
acquire him, giving up a number one pick, although it's
in twenty twenty nine and it'll probably be a lower
first round pick in all like, at least that's Phoenix
is thinking. I found myself a bit befuddled by that,
(20:05):
because you traded away Kevin Durant in a quest to
get assets, and you're looking to get assets because of
the assets that you gave away over the last few years.
I didn't think that was necessary. Last quick comment, what
are your thoughts about Phoenix and what they did?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean it's almost like, what do they know
that the Lakers don't about Mark Williams because they actually
gave two first round picks. They gave the twenty ninth
pick of last night's draft and the twenty twenty ninth pick.
Twenty nine not super duper valuable, but nonetheless, I will
say this Phoenix, because they don't control their draft, they
have to compete, they have to put the gas down.
(20:40):
They can't tank, and they've got Devin Booker and everything
like that. So I understand the concept of drafting a
guy who can be your starting center today and then
drafting a player in common maluwatch who is probably going
to be a year or two away from being ready
to be your starting center if things go well. I
get that concept. But they did kind of pay. In fact,
(21:01):
they paid more. Looking at it a certain way, they
kind of paid more than the Lakers did. The Lakers
traded a pick and a swap. They traded to first.
One of the first was late, so they have put
themselves in a position where Mark Williams better pass that
physical and Mark Williams better come in and help them.
It was a little bit curious, but people are acting
(21:24):
like it's strange to get two centers. I get that
now you watch. It's not ready to play right now,
but the Suns aren't going to get the benefit of
the doubt. That's the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
One and only.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Brian Windows appreciate the great work all year, my band.
You take it easy, get some time off as well deserved,
but I'm sure we'll be talking to each other in
the next few days and weeks, considering all this expected
to go on in the NBA over the next couple
few days or so.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So you take it easier, right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Forward to it, and I enjoyed spending so much time
with you during the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Take it easy, Brian, We'll talk later, buddy,
I wanted to get started with Round one of the
NBA Draft last night. That began with a move that
surprised absolutely no one, and that is Cooper Flag out
of Duke going first overall to the Dallas Mavericks. There's
a lot of stuff to get into. Cooper Flag going
number one, Dylan Harper going number two. Obviously, that was
a big, big deal for the San Antonio Spurs, along
(00:25):
with a bevy of other moves that were made to
New Orleans Pelicans under the new leadership of Joe Dumars,
made a whole bunch of moves. To say the least
of Philadelphia seventy six is was supposedly in a pitch.
The Phoenix Suns made a deal drafting a big man
and then acquiring another big man and Mark Williams from Charlotte.
There's so much stuff to get into, and who better
to get into it than who I'm about to get
(00:47):
into it with it now, joining me now to discuss
the draft and all the other moves teams made in
round one last night is NBA senior writer extraordinary Inside
of the one and only Brian Winterhors right here on
the seat in a Smith show.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What's up, Wendy, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, we're in the middle of the most crazy
time of the year in the NBA. So teams are changing,
we got a new champion, this is this is in
a lot of ways, the best time of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, listen, you look a little bit sleepy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm not gonna knock you for that, but forgive me
if I don't feel sorry for you, because you know
how exhausted I am. I can tell you that much.
But we are here. Let's get Let's get right to it, Wendy.
Let's begin with Cooper Flag going to the Dallas Mavericks.
What does this mean for the team in the Western
Conferencing estimation?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
You know, I really feel like this was such an
incredible turn of events. It is very rare that we
see a team this established get a player this good
in the draft. I don't know if it's quite Tim
Duncan going to the Spurs, but it's possible we could
look back and compare it to that, because not only
is Cooper Flag a tremendous talent, but he is the
(01:53):
perfect modern player. And what I mean by that is
he has great size, he can play the multiple different
positions and one of the things that teams want today
is they want a big who can take the ball
out the backboard and bring it up the court start
the offense so they can flow into their offense. Draymond
Green pretty much redefined that role. Everybody's trying to do it.
(02:16):
You know, Al Parren Shan Gun for example, this guy
who's become an All Star doing stuff like that. Jokic's
becoming a three time MVP doing stuff like that. Cooper
Flag is not a center, but he can do that.
So not only do you have a player who's perfectly modern,
he also wants to defend the hardest thing and stephen A.
You know this from when young players tends to be.
(02:38):
The more talented they are, the less they care about defense.
They have to come in the NBA and learn defense.
This guy wants to defend. Even when I first watched
him playing in high school, I noticed that he really
cares on the defensive end of the ball, and having
that coming into the league is very important. And then third,
you look at this team. They have Hall of Fame
(03:01):
at center and point guard. He comes in as a
versatile wing, combo forward, whatever you want to call him.
He fits into what they have like it'd be one
thing if he was duplicating a position. When Kyrie Irving
is healthy, he fits in there. And so you said
the other day that you thought that Dallas could be
(03:22):
the biggest challenger to Oklahoma City in the West. Obviously
that comes along with the asterisks of Kyrie, because we
know that you don't just spring back off of off
of an ACL when you're ready to play that you're
the same player. But that is not the hottest take
you've ever had. We'll just leave it at them.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know, there are people out there that are being
critical of Cooper Flag from this perspective, and I see, No,
I don't understand it because I think the kid is
a stud. There's only four freshmen in the history of
college basketball that have been named National Player of the Year.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
He's obviously one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But I'm looking at this kid right now and I
love what he brings to the table.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But he's not the greatest.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Even though he got he shot thirty eight percent from
three point range. He's not a marksman per se. And
so when people look at him, obviously he's talented, he's athletic,
he's gifted as a basketball player, and he also happens
to be white. They think about Larry Bird and then
that's that's just fodder for the critics to say, no
way in hell, he ain't that dude. I don't think
(04:22):
he's a Larry Bird type either, because he's not that
kind of scorer. But I do think he's gifted enough
to be whatever the hell he wants to be. Considering
the fact that he's gifted is that he is at
this age of eighteen.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I agree, if you're expecting him to score twenty five
twenty eight points a game coming out of the gate,
that's not gonna happen. Not only that he's got other
scorers on his team, and we haven't talked about Klay
Thompson at all. I mean, Klay Thompson is a shooter
on that roster. So look, it's even possible, stephen A,
that he may not even win Rookie of the Year.
You know, they're you know, Ace Bailey or somebody else
(04:56):
you know, you know, may get on a team where
he might average twenty eight point it's twenty five points
and put up huge numbers and you might see Cooper
flag because of the other guys on this team and
because his role is not be a high score in
a lot of way. A lot of times that defines
when people think of rookies is how much they score.
So yeah, if you're gonna hold them to the standard
that he's gonna shoot the ball like Larry Bird and
(05:18):
create and have all that offensive versatility, you are probably
gonna be underwhelmed. But in terms of his overall impact
on the game, I mean, he has the potential. I mean, look,
I'll say is this as you know, it is very
rare for rookies to drive winning. Lebron didn't make I mean,
Lebron instantly made the Cavs better, but he didn't make
(05:38):
the playoffs till his third year. Luka Doncic again at
one of the biggest impact players, he didn't make the
playoffs I think until his third year. Kevin Durant he
didn't make the playoffs I think until his third year.
You know, you can come in and help your team,
but it you know, the idea that you're going to
come in and drive winning from day one. That doesn't
happen with rookies. I believe this player on this team
(06:00):
and he can help drive winning, and that should be
what the standard is.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
More than anything, Let's go to the number two pick,
Dylan Harper. I know the Spurs had a couple of
picks in the first round. They picked Carter Bryant with
the fourteenth pick, But that Dylan Harper.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Is he that good? I think he is. I think
he's talented.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I think that what I'm seeing from the San Antonio
Spurs is that they're a team that's trying to emulate
the Oklahoma City Thunder to some degree in terms of
having players that are interchangeable parts. Player is capable of
playing multiple positions. I view Dylan Harper as one of
those dudes that's versatile enough to make some noise at
either guard spot.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Talk to me about your thoughts about that pick.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, so the Spurs, definitely we're gonna have a little
bit of a crowded backcourt here because they're heavily invested
in dearon Fox. They traded three first round picks for him,
and I believe are going to expend Yeah, they're going
to extend him to the two to two hundred million
dollars in the next few weeks. They've obviously got a
(07:00):
fan Castle, who's the reigning rookie of the Year, who's
a combo guard. They've got Devin Vessel, who they've invested heavily.
You know, right now he's actually their highest paid player.
And then now they've drafted Dylan Harper. Now you can say,
I don't know if all those guys are going to stay.
And I mean, already it looks like there's no room
for Chris Paul. You know, I don't know where Chris
(07:21):
Paul's been up. He's actually gonna be one of the
more interesting free agents. They do have a little bit
of a of a crowded backcourt there, but they're gonna
be big into positional versatility. If you listen to Brian Wright,
their general manager, last night, he addressed this question and
he said, yeah, if you look at the game traditionally,
we have too many guards. If you look at the
(07:41):
game in the modern era, in the era where there's
you know, you're you're putting basketball players on the court
and picking out matchups. We like what we're at. And
by the way, it helps when you have a center
in Victor Webberinyama who can play like a wing and
who can you know, bring the ball to court as
well and and create a little bit offensively. So I
(08:01):
do think there could be some moments there. I don't
think he's an ideal fit. But one thing that I
know talking to scouts from a talent standpoint, this was
in a lot of ways a two player draft. Now,
just because people think that in June twenty twenty five
doesn't mean that's the reality that it'll look like a
year or four years from now. But a lot of
people felt that it was Cooper, it was Harper, and
(08:22):
then there was a golf with everybody else. And so
the Spurs with the number two pick, took the most
talented player. And with where they're at and they're building,
they can't be drafting for fit. When you have the
number two pick, you take the most talented player and
you figure out the fit later. And that's probably what
they're going to do.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
One of the things that one of the people that
was making noise was this kid, Ace Bailey, who was
considered one of the top three talents in the draft,
but because he had refused to be interviewed or work
out for several teams, you know, several you know, a
couple of teams passed on him before he was taken.
We know that the kid is good, is gifted and
what have you. My position was no one anybody it
(09:00):
can be justified in taking him, except the Philadelphia seventy
six Ers after what happened with Ben Simmons. You can't
take a chance on an unknown at the number three pick.
If you're the Philadelphia seventy six ers, that is the
one team that did not have that latitude. And sure
enough they were smart enough not to do it. And
they took this kid, Edgecomb, you know. And so I'm
looking at him and I'm saying, Okay, I believe in
(09:21):
this kid and his potential, this kid out of bailor
shooting guard out of Baila.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
What were your thoughts about how to Sixers handle their draft?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, so, I mean Darryl Moury said last night after
the draft, he said he thinks that they have one
of the best backcourts in the NBA. Now when you look,
you know, not just starting but their whole across. So
you think about Tyrese Maxi, you think about Paul George,
You think about Jared McCain, their first round pick last year,
who was playing like a Rookie of the Year candidate
until he hurt his knee. And you look at edgecumb
(09:50):
who they've now drafted. You know, the thing about Edgecomb
that you know where I got positive feedback was, you know,
he played for the Baha Manian national team last year
with the bus of NBA guys, with DeAndre Aiden, with
Buddy Heal, with Clay Thompson, and like, there were stretches
of games where he was the best player on the
court and that was up against you know, top teams.
(10:12):
I mean, they almost qualified for the Olympics. They got,
I think that the championship game of their regional to
try to qualify for the Olympics, and so there's reason
to believe in him. They obviously were on the fence
about as Bailey stephen A because they really wanted to
bring as Bailey in for a workout. That was the
only workout that based that Bailey schedule. Of course didn't
(10:35):
matter because he canceled it. And so, you know, I
think the most relevant thing that Daryl Morey said last
night after the game or after the draft was that
they expect Joel and B to be ready by training camp.
Now before before I even see your face on this,
expecting Joel and B to be ready's a statement that
we have heard before, but we haven't really had any
(10:56):
update at all after his knee surgery, so that was
at least some sort of update. Yeah, and here's the
other thing. The Philly could have traded this pick. Okay,
like there was definite interest in moving up into this spot,
either for Bailey or somebody else. But with what's happened
to Philly with trading picks, they don't. They don't operate
(11:19):
in a vacuum.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Don't take a chance, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So Edgecombe was probably the safer pick when it comes
to Bailey. Utah they have probably bottom three overall talent
in the league and they're in Salt Lake City. They
cannot afford to worry about positional fit or or whether
(11:41):
or not a player wants to be in Utah. If
you wait for players who announce they want to be
in Utah, you're not going to feel the team. Okay,
let's just be honest. I live in the Midwest. I'm
not throwing stones. They had to do what they had
to do.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Listen, and I got no problem with what you taught
did Daddy Agent and obviously Son know what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ace Bailey and Walter Klay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
The way I saw Walter Clayton Junior play during the
NCAA tournament and win the national lead in Florida to
national championship.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I like what they do it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I'm a big fan of Jeremiah Fears out of Oklahoma.
I love the fact that the Pelicans pick somebody like
him up. I think that he has Kyrie Irvin potential.
He's got to develop a shot, but my lord, that
brother can handle the rocket. He's spectacular in the open court.
I love watching him play. Let me transition to the
Pelicans since I brought them up, and I want to
play this sound for you from Bill Simmons, because Bill
(12:31):
Simmons was on a podcast and he was talking about
the Pelicans and what the Pelicans elected to do with
you know, moving up, you know, trading up to get
this kid queen out of Maryland and what have you
with Atlanta. I mean, Joe Dumars is getting criticized heavily
about making this decision. I want you to listen to
(12:52):
what Bill Simmons had to say, and I want you
to react to that. Play this for me, guys.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
This was when I lost my mind. I think I
blacked out. I'm so glad the NBA can still give us.
These New Orleans trades up ten spots so they could
take Derek Queen, and they give up their unprotected twenty
twenty six first round pick swap that they have with
Milwaukee where they have the favorable whatever the better.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Pick is they keep.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
They send that to Atlanta, who had to be deliriously happy, like,
we only have to move down ten spots and we
get an unprotected This was one of the five dumbest
trades of this decade.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I was speechless. I just can't believe it. And who
is it? It's our guy, Joe Dumars, and now he just.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Traded away their unprotected twenty twenty six pick house they're
in the West. What the fuck does he think's gonna
happen next year?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Do you think they're gonna be a five seed? What
is he doing?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
They should have shown the Hawks war room as guys
are taking their shirts off and doing this and fucking
popping champagne on each other. They might have the championship belt.
Now a biggest mess of a team. I think this
is it. I think giving away next year's first round
pick and making it unprotected, I think they grabbed the belt.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Before you comment, Wendy. I will tell you this. It
was risky, no doubt. And Bill Simmons certainly was certainly
was making some sense. I like Queen because I watched
him during the NCAA tournament. Didn't mind, didn't pay much
attention to the fact that the Repelicans had moved up
to get him. That's a good point, because you're in
the West. What you think you gonna do next year?
I think it was insurance in case Zion Williamson goes out,
(14:23):
even though he's not the player that Zion Williamson is.
I think it was insurance in that regard. But I
also want to say this, this is the same Joe Dumars. Yes,
he made a huge, huge mistake by by not drafting
Carmelo Anthony years ago because he had Tayshawn Prince at
that small forward spot and and and drafted someone else's
(14:45):
number two. But he did go to six conference finals,
six consecutive conference finals, back to back NBA Finals appearances,
and won a championship. That's the same Jude Joe Dumars
we're talking about here. So I just wanted to row
that out before I'll let you comment about the decision
that Joe Dumas had to make.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
What could you tell us about this decision?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, let's draw a line here on the Pelicans. On
one side, Let's point out that they walk away from
this draft with Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen. From a
talent standpoint, any team would be happy with that. And
I think you have to evaluate that as their draft night.
Where people are getting on them is the price that
they paid to move up from the twenty third pick
(15:28):
to the thirteenth pick, and specifically that it gives the
Hawks an opportunity to either have the Bucks pick next year,
which I'm not sure what the Bucks are going to
look like right now. Next year, maybe they'll be a
playoff team. I don't know what they're going to look like.
And the Pelicans, who have not been a reliable playoff
team in the West and the Western Conference is a beast.
(15:49):
So I'm not gonna lie you, stephen A. I had
executives text me today saying that this was the worst
Draft day trade since Luka Doncic. So, but that's looking
at the value of the trade. That's not looking at
the value of the player. What you are seeing here,
people are talking about Joe Dumars. What you're seeing here
right now is the imprint of Troy Weaver. Troy Weaver,
(16:14):
who was the general manager in Detroit last year, he
spent the year working with the Wizards, and he has
been hired to be Joe Dumar's right hand man. Look
at what they've done in the last two days. They
traded a dated to deal with the Wizards where they
traded for Jordan Poole. You don't think they have insnent
to Jordan Pool. Troy Weaver was there every day. Okay.
The second thing is Troy Weaver is from Washington DC.
(16:35):
In fact, it was Troy Weaver that recruited Carmelo Anthony
to Syracuse all those years ago. He lives at Washington
d C. Troy Weaver's son works for the University of
Maryland program. Who knows how many games that Troy Weaver
was at to see Derek Queen. I'm not saying Joe
Dumars wast in love with Derek Queen. But this is
Troy Weaver who, Yeah, he had some mistakes in Detroit,
(16:58):
but he also built the bone of that team that
is now taken off. And he also helped build the
bones of the first contending team that they've had in
Oklahoma City. So I think it's it's both fair to
say they walked out of this draft with a great
two picks in the top in the lottery and yet
(17:20):
also left themselves exposed to next season. They are now
going to play next season with a little bit of
the cloud hanging over their head because if they have
a bad year, if Zion gets hurt again and missus
a bunch of games and they end up back of
the lottery, they are in big trouble of having egg
on their face. But let's let's first watch Derek Queen
before we admit that you try to, you know, brand
(17:40):
this as a terrible decision.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Totally fair. I only got a couple of minutes left, Windy.
Let's get right to it. Winners and losers in this draft.
Give me your winners and then give me your losers.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well, you mentioned the Spurs the wing that they drafted
Carter Bryant. Like, I am not a draft expert, but
I have people that are who have compared him to
OG and Aobi. So you get Dylan Harper and that
type of three and D wing defender which are always
in in vital demand. In the NBA. I think they
(18:10):
have to feel good about themselves. I think the Hawks
feel good about themselves. Number One, Again, I am not
a draft expert. I'm not going to sit here and
give you the finer points of Ason Newle's game. But
nobody that I saw had him outside the top twenty.
A lot of people had him inside the top fifteen.
They get him at twenty three. Well, also getting this
(18:30):
valuable asset from the Pelicans a day after they got
Chris aps Porzingis for a song. They traded a pick
to get him. That's why I included in the draft,
and they have a twenty million dollar trade exception that
they're going hunting for. I think the Hawks, in the
Eastern Conference, where we're seeing some teams have to take
a step back due to injuries, are potentially in the
process of taking a step forward. So the Hawks and
(18:53):
the Spurs to me, and also I'm going to give
the Jazz some credit here. You mentioned Walter Clayton. I
can't compare Walter Clayton and the other guy's taking around him.
I'm not that kind of expert, but I watched NCAA
tournament and I'd want that guy on my team. They
liked him, see you right, They moved up three spots
to get him. They went into the draft saying we
(19:15):
want Walter Clayton, and obviously Ace Bailey is one of
the most talented players in the draft. Utah, they are
bereft of impact players, and they drafted two guys with
the potential to be impacts in different ways. So I
think I would say Utah had a good night as well.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Last question, Phoenix, your thoughts about them is one thing
to get to draft this Malowich out of Duke who
I like.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I loved that pick by Phoenix, so I thought that
was good.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Giving up a first round pick for Mark Williams, who
failed the physical supposedly when the Lakers had traded a
Dalton connect and a few other assets in order to
acquire him, giving up a number one pick, although it's
in twenty twenty nine and it'll probably be a lower
first round pick in all like, at least that's Phoenix
is thinking. I found myself a bit befuddled by that,
(20:05):
because you traded away Kevin Durant in a quest to
get assets, and you're looking to get assets because of
the assets that you gave away over the last few years.
I didn't think that was necessary. Last quick comment, what
are your thoughts about Phoenix and what they did?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean it's almost like, what do they know
that the Lakers don't about Mark Williams because they actually
gave two first round picks. They gave the twenty ninth
pick of last night's draft and the twenty twenty ninth pick.
Twenty nine not super duper valuable, but nonetheless, I will
say this Phoenix, because they don't control their draft, they
have to compete, they have to put the gas down.
(20:40):
They can't tank, and they've got Devin Booker and everything
like that. So I understand the concept of drafting a
guy who can be your starting center today and then
drafting a player in common maluwatch who is probably going
to be a year or two away from being ready
to be your starting center if things go well. I
get that concept. But they did kind of pay. In fact,
(21:01):
they paid more. Looking at it a certain way, they
kind of paid more than the Lakers did. The Lakers
traded a pick and a swap. They traded to first.
One of the first was late, so they have put
themselves in a position where Mark Williams better pass that
physical and Mark Williams better come in and help them.
It was a little bit curious, but people are acting
(21:24):
like it's strange to get two centers. I get that
now you watch. It's not ready to play right now,
but the Suns aren't going to get the benefit of
the doubt. That's the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
One and only.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Brian Windows appreciate the great work all year, my band.
You take it easy, get some time off as well deserved,
but I'm sure we'll be talking to each other in
the next few days and weeks, considering all this expected
to go on in the NBA over the next couple
few days or so.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So you take it easier, right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Forward to it, and I enjoyed spending so much time
with you during the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Take it easy, Brian, We'll talk later, buddy,
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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