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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
My next guest is a veteran music and pop culture
journalist who hosts the popular Torrey Show. He's back to
discuss the case of Luigi Mangioni, the alleged killer of
United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. We're also gonna touch on
Sean Dinny Combs just the second as well. You know
how that involves, whether or not that involves rapper jay Z.
We'll get into all of that. The one and only
(00:25):
Torrey is here with me right now. What's going on, man?
How are you? How's everything?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm good? Tell him about my show Rap Latte on YouTube.
We talk about hip hop every day. We keep it
real Rap Latte. I mean that's right, every day, right?
Is it five days week?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, we're gonna we're ramping up to five days a week,
but we're we're on like four days now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But it's you know, business, we're doing it out here.
That's right. You deserve it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
You deserve it. But that's not what you're here to
talk about today. Because I'm here thinking there's a lot
of things you could have talked to me about. I
couldn't believe when my staff reached out to me and
said Torre wants to come back on the show because
I had the audacity, to unmitigated goal to call this
good Luis g man GIONI.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I said, if that.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Is him, he is guilty of cold blooded murder, shooting
Brian Thompson, a former CEO of United Healthcare. I mean
shooting him in the back, murdering him. This is not
somebody that should be celebrated. And I'm hearing for that reason,
Torrey wanted to come on the shore.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And talk to me about it. What could the possibility
I talk about? I felt like you were.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Kind of scolding us the masses for seeing value in
Luigi and what he did. I felt like, not only you,
but there was a lot of high level media people,
Chris Cuomo, actually Banfield, Sarah Haynes of The View, I
could go on and on, Gail King, who were scolding us,
saying we should not root for this person, we should
(01:45):
not respect this person.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
He's like you already think what's wrong with that blooded murderer?
He's a cold blood furderer, is he not.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I think that that is accurate, But I also think
that we have to We cannot have a conversation about
Louis without talking about what Brian Thompson and United health
Hair kept doing and the murder's plural that they have
been responsible for for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And I'm not even talk about the uninsured.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm talking about the insured who they turn their back on,
they betray, and I also deny claims from a third
of their claims.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right, So we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
People who are getting who need life saving help, and
United health Care is not there for them, saying like, well,
you know that person has cancer. If we don't give
them help, they're gonna die and then we won't have
to pay their bills.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
This is a large part of how they make their money.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So we cannot have any conversation about Luigi unless we're
also talking about the thousands and thousands of deaths that
Brian and United Healthcare are on the hook for. So
now from that perspective, things are a lot different, Right.
It's not just one person committed cold blooded murder, which
he did. He laid he laid in wait for him,
(02:59):
he decided to kill it me clear. I mean it's
a political murder, right, He's trying to make a political
statement about this company. Come off harmful, Come on to American.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Come on to our rant. You gotta be kid, you
got it? What are you gonna really say that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Listen? Listen.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
First of all, let me say this.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I saw D L.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hughgley on social media talking about this, and I took
it and I reposted it because I wanted everybody to
see what he had to say. Under no circumstances. Am
I absolving any healthcare CEO who has engaged.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In such practices of they all have, which they are.
That's that's where I was going with this.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
They all have because we live in a capitalistic society
and people trying to get as much money as they can,
so they're trying to get as much as your money
and give you the least in return. We lament that
with every practically every business right now. I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But I don't think anybody. I don't think anybody anything different.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But it's different when Coca Cola is watering down the
Coca Cola little bit to give you ninety five percent
Coca Cola instead of one hundred, versus a healthcare company
say we're going to deny your claims so that we
can make more money.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I t I totally, But listen to what I'm saying,
I get that, But my point to you is this,
this was some middle class dude or well to do
who who wasn't from Who wasn't some impoveriaged dude, some
member of a disadvantised community.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Matter.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Here my point, Here my point, and then I'll give
you an opportunity to respond. My point is he wasn't
that dude. So when he's speaking to such things, we
don't know how much how close he is to a
situation like this. How does this hit him home. I'm
saying there are some people out there who just want
to murder and find any excuse that they could get
away with Torrey to do it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That's the point that I made.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Do you do you do you think that white people
had no place during slavery to be abolitionists even though
they were not slaves?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Do you think that men don't have a to argue
for women to have the right to choose what they
do with their bodies?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Of course right?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I mean like you don't have to be you don't
have to be specifically within the group to fight for
the political rights of that To say that said Luigi
came from money, so he can't have no we have
no idea what he went through. His back surgery and
his back issues were clearly a very deep part of
his identity. He had a photograph of his X ray
(05:24):
of his back on his Instagram page right right on.
That's one of his bio photographs. So that is clearly
a huge part of his identity and how he sees himself.
He went through an insane personal situation that we don't
even know the depths of with his back and his
back surgery and clearly dealing with insurance companies as part
of this. This is a class warfare issue, but it's
(05:45):
not the rich against the poor. It's the people against
the corporations that damage our lives. And even though he
even though he has money, he still is dealing with
a situation from the healthcare people that he's so enraged
that he does something. Most of us look at that
and say, I wouldn't have done it, but I understand,
(06:08):
and that's the core of the issue.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
He is but a player in this.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
When you see the country respond over forty percent supportively
to what he did, what we have to say is
not you shouldn't feel that way, but why does everyone
agree with what he did.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, time out, time out.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
First of all, forty one percent, ain't everybody that's number one,
number two.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, that's forty one.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Now, that's forty one percent of under thirtyty Okay, that's
forty one percent.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You're right, forty one tremendous about him.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Agreement totally set total seventeen percent forty one percent under
the age of thirty thirty to thirty nine yearld that
apply for.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Twenty not seventeen. It's not seventeen. I'll tell you that
right now in the real world. It's not seventeen per Well,
that's what they put out there. They more than that.
That's what they put out there. But I got it.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Just for the purposes of this discussion, we'll go with
that for the moment. All I'm trying to say to
you is this, I don't disagree with your premis. I'm
I'm for that, But in the same breath, what I'm
saying is, considering the time, in the visit of times
that we live in, you don't think it's dangerous for
people to be out there applauding somebody being murdered. Now,
I understand that you're saying that they're not necessarily applauding
(07:16):
that it's the system taking advantage of the little guy.
You're a health insurance agency, your corporate America, and you're
abusing the American citizen.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I got that part.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Shit, I'm one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
My point to you is this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I still can't sit up there when I see a
man get shot in the back, gunned down and gunned
down in the streets, shot in the back, murdered, wife's
a widower, children, no longer a father, and think that
that's a course for celebration. I'm saying, is there not
something to be concerned about that in our society?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think that you are not yet understanding the moral
stakes that were actually seeing. Let's say you saw somebody
murder a serial killer, would you say, oh my god,
he was a son and a father. No, thank god,
somebody took him off the earth.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
There is no serial killer that you could name who
is responsible for more deaths than United Healthcare. So now
Luigi took it on himself to bring pain to the
head of United Healthcare because he saw them as serial killers.
And if you see them as legalized serial killers, which
they are allowed to betray their customers to make a buck.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, then the moral stakes are completely different. He didn't
just murder a person walking down the street.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
He murdered the tip of the spear to send a
message to the entire industry.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And so you're okay with that? What if the mindset
is that's just the first one. What about the people
that had you know, posts out there with the faces
and names of other healthcare CEOs and they had Brian
Thompson's face when they with an X over it like
one down and these others to go? Is that okay?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
What's not okay is for the conversation to become about
the rage that we have towards CEOs, as if that
is the central part of the conversation. The central part
of the conversation is how the healthcare industry is allowed
to betray its customers and allow them to die and
be in pain and be sick so that they can
make a buck. We need far greater regulation on the
(09:22):
healthcare system. That is the core issue in this conversation.
And if we miss that, then we miss an opportunity
to make change in an incredibly important industry in our country.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, first of all, let me say this, I completely
agree with you that's an issue that we shouldn't miss.
I'm not arguing with that. I'm just talking about the
danger that exists from the other side. Because listen, healthcare
is one issue. There's plenty of things that we can
look at in the system that exists within the United
States where regulations need to be altered to some degree,
(09:56):
things need to be addressed. The system continuously takes it
vantage of the American citizen, et cetera, et cetera. There's
an abundance of things that we can look at. But
our answer to it, if it's going to be violent,
and that's okay, what kind of society is let's say that.
Does it say that we have laying down the pipe
for us?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
What we're not saying that we live in a civilized
or a peaceful American society?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right? We are a wash in guns and violence.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
We just add a female school shooter like we're breaking
new grounds. We have DEI and school shooting now, like
we have school shooters that are constant.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
We have all kinds of violence.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Don't get me even started on state sponsored violence, the
police and the military and the sort of things that
we're allowed. I mean, we are constantly dealing with things
in a violent way. So we are not a peaceful
or civilized society by any stretch. Obviously, I do not
think that everybody should handle their disagreement with the healthcare
industry in this way. But this conversation cannot evolve into
(10:59):
that young man should not have killed somebody. Obviously he
should not have killed somebody. But even more important, the
health care industry must be rained in and the way
that it is allowed to behave legally in a completely
immoral way.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That is the core of this conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Completely in moral way. So, in other words, in the
society that we're living in right now, when you're trying
to listen, I agree with you, and the way you
broke it down, I agree with you. There's no disagreement here.
I'm just making the argument that could be an issue.
No matter where you turn to, you're isolating the issue
of health care, because obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
A very profound thing.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Once health obviously, your livelihood, your quality of life, et cetera,
et cetera. It's all affected.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
By your health.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I don't give it damn how much money you have.
If your health ain't good, you ain't good. You can't
enjoy the fruits of your labor. I understand that part,
but other people with that mindset it might translate to
anything far removed from health care. Just because they feel
like they're getting taken advantage of by the system, that
may be a for them to engage in such heinous acts.
(12:02):
And we can't ignore that either.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Don't focus in this conversation. Don't just focus on Luigi
did x. Oh my god, what does that mean to society? Okay,
there is a reason why he engaged in that. And
when you see millions of people across the country celebrating
somebody for bringing pain like that to the healthcare industry,
(12:25):
you have to say, why is it that so many
people agree with his action and are cheering on his action.
That's where I am That's what I am motivated by.
Why are people feeling that way? Rather than telling them
they shouldn't feel that way. I think media has a
responsibility to report the truth and to speak truth to power.
(12:46):
And when we are reporting the truth, we have to say,
why are all these people so happy that this happened?
We cannot say you guys should not feel that way.
And like when you we wag our finger at the
people and say you should not feel that way. We
are completely missing what is really going on.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I don't think we're missing what's going on. I get
your point, and I think it's valid. I just think
that you're pointing people like myself, Gail King and others
were pointing to the celebration or the I'm going to say,
the celebration, that kind of vibe that was out there
when a person was murdered, and I think that ultimately
(13:25):
that's the scary part because it provides justification for such
a haintous act. I get what you're saying. Though you're
not wrong. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong,
and you are right. As media members, we do need
to look into why people feeling that way. That is
just as important as what happened. But I also think
that we can't minimize the word celebration in terms of
(13:47):
how it came across in the eyes of some people
that were disseminating that kind of message to the masters.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm happy it happened. I don't care that this guy
was murdered.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
This is what United Healthcare CEO was doing. Guess what
if it happens to somebody, Oh's good. That was the attitude,
and I don't know if that's good for our society, bro,
I just don't.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I mean, there's there is an anti corporate mood in
the country for a reason, because our country is shaped
by what the wealthy and what the corporations want. There's
a very low correlation between what the masses want and
what d C does, and a very high correlation because
what the corporations want and what right and what the
(14:29):
court what DC does. People are angry about that. People
are angry about this massive wealth gap that we have.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
People are completely.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Missing the point when they say, Brian Tubson came from
humble background, which he did public school, Iowa farmer father.
But he became part of the extreme wealth class. And
did he remember that he came from a working class
or a lower middle class background when he became extremely wealthy,
(14:58):
did he did he think about that when people had
claims and couldn't pay them and he and IT couldn't
pay for their health care and he refused their claims,
did he think about that? I mean, he's not. The
New York Times tried to call him a working class hero.
He is a working class trader. Like we need to
talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't recall anybody calling him a working class hero.
That's news to me.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I missed the Brett the New York Times.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I missed that one, Brett Stevens, Brett Stevens, New York Times.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
All right, that's one individual of the New York Times.
Everybody's got their opinion. I get that part, Tore. I
appreciate it, man, I can't.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I listen.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I can't argue your point. You're absolutely right, especially me
being in the media along with the rest of us.
You are absolutely right that there should be a spotlight
placed on the dissent that people feel, to discuss that
people feel as to why this stuff happened, getting to
the biggest issue about really really being against corporate America
and what it's done to the American citizens, particularly with
(15:53):
the new administration coming in the office of what people
are anticipating may happen for those, you know, for the
wealthy amongst them. Absolutely right, There's no doubt about that,
So I can't knock it. I was just saying, look,
you're out in the streets. You know a dude got murdered. Now,
that ain't a reason to celebrate. That's all I was
trying to see but I got your point. I got
your point. And I've been in a situation as you have,
(16:15):
where most of our life, he found a situation where
corporate America hasn't been there for us at all. We
didn't go out and shoot anybody. That's all I'm saying.
That's all I'm saying. I get your point. You're not wrong,
You're not wrong. I'm just saying, we didn't go out
there and shoot somebody in the back and gun him down.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's not you know.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I don't know where you got in the back. I
haven't seen the full footage. I don't think it was
in the back. I don't know why. I don't know
why we keep going back to the well. I guess
I guess that's where he was when he got shut.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I'm I'm only assuming that because I saw him point
in the gun, and then while the guy was walking
and his back was turned, and I saw a report
that said.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No, I don't, but I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I don't think that that batters as far as the
relationship to it doesn't. The healthcare industry and the way
that all these people feel, I've never seen in my
life such a stark divide between the way the media
class is discussing something and the way the people feel.
And we saw such a stark divide that I felt
(17:14):
I had to speak about it on social media, and
you know, with folks like you to be like, you know, y'all, y'all,
y'all need to understand because when it was Maga, when
Maga rose up, media said we need to understand who
these people are, right, we also wagged our finger at them,
but we went to their coffee shops to try to
figure out who they are.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And right now, as millions of people are cheering Luigi on, we.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Need to go into their coffee shops it is and
figure out who they are, why they feel that way.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So let the audience know where you're gonna be talking
about this further, because I know you ain't gonna get
off this subject.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I mean, you know you can catch be on rapt
on YouTube. I'm on my TikTok Toret show. Uh, We're
gonna talk about on my podcast Tore Show, and you
know I'll be back here with Steven A.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Smith next week.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I appreciate you man, Thanks a lot, bro, thanks a lot,
so much. Appreciate the education thanks a lot, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Man, thank you. M m mmmmmmmmm
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Hmm
My next guest is a veteran music and pop culture
journalist who hosts the popular Torrey Show. He's back to
discuss the case of Luigi Mangioni, the alleged killer of
United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. We're also gonna touch on
Sean Dinny Combs just the second as well. You know
how that involves, whether or not that involves rapper jay Z.
We'll get into all of that. The one and only
(00:25):
Torrey is here with me right now. What's going on, man?
How are you? How's everything?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm good? Tell him about my show Rap Latte on YouTube.
We talk about hip hop every day. We keep it
real Rap Latte. I mean that's right, every day, right?
Is it five days week?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, we're gonna we're ramping up to five days a week,
but we're we're on like four days now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But it's you know, business, we're doing it out here.
That's right. You deserve it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
You deserve it. But that's not what you're here to
talk about today. Because I'm here thinking there's a lot
of things you could have talked to me about. I
couldn't believe when my staff reached out to me and
said Torre wants to come back on the show because
I had the audacity, to unmitigated goal to call this
good Luis g man GIONI.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I said, if that.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Is him, he is guilty of cold blooded murder, shooting
Brian Thompson, a former CEO of United Healthcare. I mean
shooting him in the back, murdering him. This is not
somebody that should be celebrated. And I'm hearing for that reason,
Torrey wanted to come on the shore.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And talk to me about it. What could the possibility
I talk about? I felt like you were.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Kind of scolding us the masses for seeing value in
Luigi and what he did. I felt like, not only you,
but there was a lot of high level media people,
Chris Cuomo, actually Banfield, Sarah Haynes of The View, I
could go on and on, Gail King, who were scolding us,
saying we should not root for this person, we should
(01:45):
not respect this person.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
He's like you already think what's wrong with that blooded murderer?
He's a cold blood furderer, is he not.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I think that that is accurate, But I also think
that we have to We cannot have a conversation about
Louis without talking about what Brian Thompson and United health
Hair kept doing and the murder's plural that they have
been responsible for for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And I'm not even talk about the uninsured.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm talking about the insured who they turn their back on,
they betray, and I also deny claims from a third
of their claims.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right, So we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
People who are getting who need life saving help, and
United health Care is not there for them, saying like, well,
you know that person has cancer. If we don't give
them help, they're gonna die and then we won't have
to pay their bills.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
This is a large part of how they make their money.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So we cannot have any conversation about Luigi unless we're
also talking about the thousands and thousands of deaths that
Brian and United Healthcare are on the hook for. So
now from that perspective, things are a lot different, Right.
It's not just one person committed cold blooded murder, which
he did. He laid he laid in wait for him,
(02:59):
he decided to kill it me clear. I mean it's
a political murder, right, He's trying to make a political
statement about this company. Come off harmful, Come on to American.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Come on to our rant. You gotta be kid, you
got it? What are you gonna really say that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Listen? Listen.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
First of all, let me say this.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I saw D L.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hughgley on social media talking about this, and I took
it and I reposted it because I wanted everybody to
see what he had to say. Under no circumstances. Am
I absolving any healthcare CEO who has engaged.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In such practices of they all have, which they are.
That's that's where I was going with this.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
They all have because we live in a capitalistic society
and people trying to get as much money as they can,
so they're trying to get as much as your money
and give you the least in return. We lament that
with every practically every business right now. I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But I don't think anybody. I don't think anybody anything different.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But it's different when Coca Cola is watering down the
Coca Cola little bit to give you ninety five percent
Coca Cola instead of one hundred, versus a healthcare company
say we're going to deny your claims so that we
can make more money.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I t I totally, But listen to what I'm saying,
I get that, But my point to you is this,
this was some middle class dude or well to do
who who wasn't from Who wasn't some impoveriaged dude, some
member of a disadvantised community.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Matter.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Here my point, Here my point, and then I'll give
you an opportunity to respond. My point is he wasn't
that dude. So when he's speaking to such things, we
don't know how much how close he is to a
situation like this. How does this hit him home. I'm
saying there are some people out there who just want
to murder and find any excuse that they could get
away with Torrey to do it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That's the point that I made.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Do you do you do you think that white people
had no place during slavery to be abolitionists even though
they were not slaves?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Do you think that men don't have a to argue
for women to have the right to choose what they
do with their bodies?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Of course right?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I mean like you don't have to be you don't
have to be specifically within the group to fight for
the political rights of that To say that said Luigi
came from money, so he can't have no we have
no idea what he went through. His back surgery and
his back issues were clearly a very deep part of
his identity. He had a photograph of his X ray
(05:24):
of his back on his Instagram page right right on.
That's one of his bio photographs. So that is clearly
a huge part of his identity and how he sees himself.
He went through an insane personal situation that we don't
even know the depths of with his back and his
back surgery and clearly dealing with insurance companies as part
of this. This is a class warfare issue, but it's
(05:45):
not the rich against the poor. It's the people against
the corporations that damage our lives. And even though he
even though he has money, he still is dealing with
a situation from the healthcare people that he's so enraged
that he does something. Most of us look at that
and say, I wouldn't have done it, but I understand,
(06:08):
and that's the core of the issue.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
He is but a player in this.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
When you see the country respond over forty percent supportively
to what he did, what we have to say is
not you shouldn't feel that way, but why does everyone
agree with what he did.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, time out, time out.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
First of all, forty one percent, ain't everybody that's number one,
number two.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, that's forty one.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Now, that's forty one percent of under thirtyty Okay, that's
forty one percent.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You're right, forty one tremendous about him.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Agreement totally set total seventeen percent forty one percent under
the age of thirty thirty to thirty nine yearld that
apply for.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Twenty not seventeen. It's not seventeen. I'll tell you that
right now in the real world. It's not seventeen per Well,
that's what they put out there. They more than that.
That's what they put out there. But I got it.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Just for the purposes of this discussion, we'll go with
that for the moment. All I'm trying to say to
you is this, I don't disagree with your premis. I'm
I'm for that, But in the same breath, what I'm
saying is, considering the time, in the visit of times
that we live in, you don't think it's dangerous for
people to be out there applauding somebody being murdered. Now,
I understand that you're saying that they're not necessarily applauding
(07:16):
that it's the system taking advantage of the little guy.
You're a health insurance agency, your corporate America, and you're
abusing the American citizen.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I got that part.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Shit, I'm one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
My point to you is this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I still can't sit up there when I see a
man get shot in the back, gunned down and gunned
down in the streets, shot in the back, murdered, wife's
a widower, children, no longer a father, and think that
that's a course for celebration. I'm saying, is there not
something to be concerned about that in our society?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think that you are not yet understanding the moral
stakes that were actually seeing. Let's say you saw somebody
murder a serial killer, would you say, oh my god,
he was a son and a father. No, thank god,
somebody took him off the earth.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
There is no serial killer that you could name who
is responsible for more deaths than United Healthcare. So now
Luigi took it on himself to bring pain to the
head of United Healthcare because he saw them as serial killers.
And if you see them as legalized serial killers, which
they are allowed to betray their customers to make a buck.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, then the moral stakes are completely different. He didn't
just murder a person walking down the street.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
He murdered the tip of the spear to send a
message to the entire industry.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And so you're okay with that? What if the mindset
is that's just the first one. What about the people
that had you know, posts out there with the faces
and names of other healthcare CEOs and they had Brian
Thompson's face when they with an X over it like
one down and these others to go? Is that okay?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
What's not okay is for the conversation to become about
the rage that we have towards CEOs, as if that
is the central part of the conversation. The central part
of the conversation is how the healthcare industry is allowed
to betray its customers and allow them to die and
be in pain and be sick so that they can
make a buck. We need far greater regulation on the
(09:22):
healthcare system. That is the core issue in this conversation.
And if we miss that, then we miss an opportunity
to make change in an incredibly important industry in our country.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, first of all, let me say this, I completely
agree with you that's an issue that we shouldn't miss.
I'm not arguing with that. I'm just talking about the
danger that exists from the other side. Because listen, healthcare
is one issue. There's plenty of things that we can
look at in the system that exists within the United
States where regulations need to be altered to some degree,
(09:56):
things need to be addressed. The system continuously takes it
vantage of the American citizen, et cetera, et cetera. There's
an abundance of things that we can look at. But
our answer to it, if it's going to be violent,
and that's okay, what kind of society is let's say that.
Does it say that we have laying down the pipe
for us?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
What we're not saying that we live in a civilized
or a peaceful American society?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right? We are a wash in guns and violence.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
We just add a female school shooter like we're breaking
new grounds. We have DEI and school shooting now, like
we have school shooters that are constant.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
We have all kinds of violence.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Don't get me even started on state sponsored violence, the
police and the military and the sort of things that
we're allowed. I mean, we are constantly dealing with things
in a violent way. So we are not a peaceful
or civilized society by any stretch. Obviously, I do not
think that everybody should handle their disagreement with the healthcare
industry in this way. But this conversation cannot evolve into
(10:59):
that young man should not have killed somebody. Obviously he
should not have killed somebody. But even more important, the
health care industry must be rained in and the way
that it is allowed to behave legally in a completely
immoral way.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That is the core of this conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Completely in moral way. So, in other words, in the
society that we're living in right now, when you're trying
to listen, I agree with you, and the way you
broke it down, I agree with you. There's no disagreement here.
I'm just making the argument that could be an issue.
No matter where you turn to, you're isolating the issue
of health care, because obviously that's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
A very profound thing.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Once health obviously, your livelihood, your quality of life, et cetera,
et cetera. It's all affected.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
By your health.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I don't give it damn how much money you have.
If your health ain't good, you ain't good. You can't
enjoy the fruits of your labor. I understand that part,
but other people with that mindset it might translate to
anything far removed from health care. Just because they feel
like they're getting taken advantage of by the system, that
may be a for them to engage in such heinous acts.
(12:02):
And we can't ignore that either.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Don't focus in this conversation. Don't just focus on Luigi
did x. Oh my god, what does that mean to society? Okay,
there is a reason why he engaged in that. And
when you see millions of people across the country celebrating
somebody for bringing pain like that to the healthcare industry,
(12:25):
you have to say, why is it that so many
people agree with his action and are cheering on his action.
That's where I am That's what I am motivated by.
Why are people feeling that way? Rather than telling them
they shouldn't feel that way. I think media has a
responsibility to report the truth and to speak truth to power.
(12:46):
And when we are reporting the truth, we have to say,
why are all these people so happy that this happened?
We cannot say you guys should not feel that way.
And like when you we wag our finger at the
people and say you should not feel that way. We
are completely missing what is really going on.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I don't think we're missing what's going on. I get
your point, and I think it's valid. I just think
that you're pointing people like myself, Gail King and others
were pointing to the celebration or the I'm going to say,
the celebration, that kind of vibe that was out there
when a person was murdered, and I think that ultimately
(13:25):
that's the scary part because it provides justification for such
a haintous act. I get what you're saying. Though you're
not wrong. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong,
and you are right. As media members, we do need
to look into why people feeling that way. That is
just as important as what happened. But I also think
that we can't minimize the word celebration in terms of
(13:47):
how it came across in the eyes of some people
that were disseminating that kind of message to the masters.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm happy it happened. I don't care that this guy
was murdered.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
This is what United Healthcare CEO was doing. Guess what
if it happens to somebody, Oh's good. That was the attitude,
and I don't know if that's good for our society, bro,
I just don't.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I mean, there's there is an anti corporate mood in
the country for a reason, because our country is shaped
by what the wealthy and what the corporations want. There's
a very low correlation between what the masses want and
what d C does, and a very high correlation because
what the corporations want and what right and what the
(14:29):
court what DC does. People are angry about that. People
are angry about this massive wealth gap that we have.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
People are completely.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Missing the point when they say, Brian Tubson came from
humble background, which he did public school, Iowa farmer father.
But he became part of the extreme wealth class. And
did he remember that he came from a working class
or a lower middle class background when he became extremely wealthy,
(14:58):
did he did he think about that when people had
claims and couldn't pay them and he and IT couldn't
pay for their health care and he refused their claims,
did he think about that? I mean, he's not. The
New York Times tried to call him a working class hero.
He is a working class trader. Like we need to
talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't recall anybody calling him a working class hero.
That's news to me.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I missed the Brett the New York Times.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I missed that one, Brett Stevens, Brett Stevens, New York Times.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
All right, that's one individual of the New York Times.
Everybody's got their opinion. I get that part, Tore. I
appreciate it, man, I can't.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I listen.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I can't argue your point. You're absolutely right, especially me
being in the media along with the rest of us.
You are absolutely right that there should be a spotlight
placed on the dissent that people feel, to discuss that
people feel as to why this stuff happened, getting to
the biggest issue about really really being against corporate America
and what it's done to the American citizens, particularly with
(15:53):
the new administration coming in the office of what people
are anticipating may happen for those, you know, for the
wealthy amongst them. Absolutely right, There's no doubt about that,
So I can't knock it. I was just saying, look,
you're out in the streets. You know a dude got murdered. Now,
that ain't a reason to celebrate. That's all I was
trying to see but I got your point. I got
your point. And I've been in a situation as you have,
(16:15):
where most of our life, he found a situation where
corporate America hasn't been there for us at all. We
didn't go out and shoot anybody. That's all I'm saying.
That's all I'm saying. I get your point. You're not wrong,
You're not wrong. I'm just saying, we didn't go out
there and shoot somebody in the back and gun him down.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's not you know.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I don't know where you got in the back. I
haven't seen the full footage. I don't think it was
in the back. I don't know why. I don't know
why we keep going back to the well. I guess
I guess that's where he was when he got shut.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I'm I'm only assuming that because I saw him point
in the gun, and then while the guy was walking
and his back was turned, and I saw a report
that said.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No, I don't, but I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I don't think that that batters as far as the
relationship to it doesn't. The healthcare industry and the way
that all these people feel, I've never seen in my
life such a stark divide between the way the media
class is discussing something and the way the people feel.
And we saw such a stark divide that I felt
(17:14):
I had to speak about it on social media, and
you know, with folks like you to be like, you know, y'all, y'all,
y'all need to understand because when it was Maga, when
Maga rose up, media said we need to understand who
these people are, right, we also wagged our finger at them,
but we went to their coffee shops to try to
figure out who they are.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And right now, as millions of people are cheering Luigi on, we.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Need to go into their coffee shops it is and
figure out who they are, why they feel that way.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So let the audience know where you're gonna be talking
about this further, because I know you ain't gonna get
off this subject.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I mean, you know you can catch be on rapt
on YouTube. I'm on my TikTok Toret show. Uh, We're
gonna talk about on my podcast Tore Show, and you
know I'll be back here with Steven A.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Smith next week.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I appreciate you man, Thanks a lot, bro, thanks a lot,
so much. Appreciate the education thanks a lot, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Man, thank you. M m mmmmmmmmm
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Hmm
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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