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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
My next guest is an Emmy Award winning television broadcaster
and journalist and a New York Times bestselling author of
sports biographies on Pete Merrivitch, Joe Namath, and Ray Boom
Boom Mancini. He's out with a new book, Baddest Man,
The Making of Mike Tyson. Please welcome, my buddy. I
haven't talked to him for a long time, but it's
(00:24):
great to see him. The one and only Mark Kriegeler
is right here.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's up, big time? How are you man? Long time?
How you been I'm good. It's great to see you too. Man,
the hardest working man in the sports business. Just on
the grind, Just on the grind, man.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's get right to this because there's a lot that's
going on. You are a young reporter at the New
York Daily News in the eighties when you were swept
up into Mike Tyson Hurricane per se. How did y'all meet?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Let's get that out the way. What was that like?
My first Tyson assignment was shitty. Editor me up about
four in the morning. He went up to haulm go
to tap of Dan's my will? What's tap it dance like? Well?
But no it's a clothing store. Go get up there,
and as you said, I got caught up in that
that swirl. A couple of weeks later, I get a
(01:12):
call he'd torn up the place in Bernrangeville. He was
living with. Robin Gibbings write that I covered his trial,
covered his fights. I didn't become columnists until ninety one.
If you remember when we met, we used to talk
about basketball. You were covering high schools, yeah, and I was.
(01:32):
I was a city side report. I mean we talked
about like Fly Williams. I'd spent a lot of time
in Brownsville as a police reporter. Anyway, I covered his stuff,
but it wasn't until and I'm ashamed to say this,
twenty twelve. And he had been the villain in my
column for years, both at the Post and the News.
(01:53):
Wasn't until twenty twelve that I actually looked on him
as something different. I covered his one man show in
preview in Vegas and it was not polished up yet.
It was still raw. And I listened to it and
it was fully confessional and eviscerating. But I found myself
(02:14):
like holding back tears, and this is a guy I
just killed. I was having a bad day, like well,
I got Mike Tyes in the bash and we met
after the show and I told him about you know,
Mitch and running around with all the robing craziness, and
he says to me, how'd that make you feel? And
(02:34):
he was, I think, newly sober and vegan in that
time or whatever. I said, what do you mean how
to make me feel? What was that like? And he
meant like chasing him around? Thought about it, and I
thought about the the adrenaline of it, and I told
him it was like it was it was a form
of getting high. And he nodded at me, not disapprovingly,
(02:55):
but just in sort of recognition. And to me, that
was the day he became like fully human to me,
not an abstraction, a real real guy. And I didn't
the publisher broke this idea, would you do Tyson? Because
I owe the publisher money on something else, and the
(03:15):
publisher broch this idea, and I was like, I don't.
Hell no, I ain't doing Tyson because my feeling has
always been whether they cooperate with me or not, I
don't care, but I have to love them. And I
didn't love Mike Tyson. I kind of do now. But
I didn't then, And I said, no, I ain't doing
(03:35):
Mike Tyson, I torn my hamstring. So what made so?
What made you decide to do it? What made you
decide to do it? I thought about him. I wasn't
I torn my hamstring. I'm not in my right mind.
I'm thinking about it. That god friend of mine says,
you can't give money back to the publisher at your
duty as a writer. I started thinking about, like who
I was then, who I am now? And I thought
(03:59):
about that day in Vegas and what the guy had survived,
and how I wasn't necessarily wrong, but I was pretty
pig headed in vain about a lot of the stuff
I wrote in the nineties, not proud of all of it.
And I started thinking about what he had survived, woos drugs, Brownsville,
(04:22):
that that whole generation of like stick up kids just
blown off the face of the earth, got it boxing
itself fain. He was famous in a kind of way
that will kill you. That you know, that killed Elvis,
that probably killed Tupac.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, but Mark, let me go here, let me go here.
We thought we've heard everything about Mike Tyson, like when
you're talking about drugs, fame, you know, alcohol, women, whatever
it is. You know, we heard it all before in
our eyes. What is it about Mike Tyson that we're
gonna learn in this book that we don't already know?
(05:01):
Considering the fact that he was an open book, he
was on Front Street. In terms of the fame, we
saw him doing his his his you know, like you said,
in Vegas, Broadway and other places. Spike Lee was producing
these one man shows. We seem to have known everything
about him. What is it that we're gonna learn? Give
us a nugget of what we're going to learn in
(05:22):
this book that we haven't already heard about Mike Tyson.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think to be human, human like you know, there's
there's an incredible loss there that I don't think he
can ever feel. I think probably the closest thing he
came to filling it is right now. He got his
life right with with Kiki, his wife. But you know,
the loss of his mother was some It was a
(05:45):
hole he couldn't fill the relationship with his father. I
think that the idea, the way that this fame was constructed,
the way he was built as a fighter, it's still
relevant today. He drew one hundred, one hundred and eight
(06:07):
million people saw him live stream with Jake Paul. Jake
Paul's pretty good promoter, but he could have only done
that number with Tyson. The question is why why we
addicted to him? Why did he come back? Why was
you know, the third act of a fighter's life is
almost inevitably the tragic one. He's disproved everything, So I
(06:32):
think you're going to find that that he's a human
being in this and a lot of it has to
do with accavating his past as an amateur as a kid.
You know, there are certain things that run through this.
One of the first people I spoke to was was
(06:56):
his brother. His half brother was a running back at
Purdue quit went off to go find himself. Really bright guy,
and you could see certain things like that run through
the Tyson family. First, the guy was a great athlete.
Second of all, he's really really bright and he was searching.
(07:18):
And I think that was that's not unlike Tyson. The
other element to it. I think that there'll never be
another fighter that comes up like this. He had literary
cachet before he had street credit. The all the writers,
(07:38):
some of them great, some of them were like my rabbis,
my teachers, guys like Pete Hamill were so in love
with custom Model that this fable cussing the kid cus
to Model was the original trainer took him out of
a juvenile pension and saved him. You know, I think
that there's something to that that deserves more nuanced, that
(08:02):
deserves to be deserves to be looked at again.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Go on, what do you believe or when do you
believe that Tyson?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
In your eyes?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
What was the point when we talk about him being
humanized per se? He talked about needing to be animalistic,
needing to be the kind of individual that he needs
to be in order to be a boxing champion in
the heavyweight division. When do you think the side you know,
where his humanity is being shown? What do you think
(08:36):
it hit and does the book reveal that? Was it
the whole Robin Gibbons affair. Was it having to deal
with Don King? Was it the fact that he looked
at his own mortality, particularly in the aftermath of losing
to a Vander Holyfield and biting Evander holy Field's ear?
What was the defining moment for the transformation per Se
(08:56):
that you believe is in is in Mike Tyson's head
where he reached the point where he said, Yo, I
can't I can't be this person anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I need to be better. I think. Look, this book
is the first of two volumes. This ends with with
with the Sphinx fight. But I think it came. I
think the reformation, you know, the final blows came with
losing a daughter, marrying Kiki and getting sod. But you
(09:29):
talk about you know, he talks about wanting and needing
to be an animal. His words, not mine. But the
irony is that custom mottol was And this is this
is why I think the history needs to be re examined. Cuts.
The motto was famous for almost a theology of the bully.
(09:51):
How do you beat a bully? When? When? When? When
Ali was fighting Foreman, he consulted with custom motto and
it was the mottola that you run across the ring
and you smack him in the mouth, hit him with
the right hand. Okay. The irony is that Cuts, whether
by design or it just happened, Cuss rays might to
(10:12):
be a bully. There's never been a guy that was
that scared. Uh scary, I mean he was scared too.
But that the way that he used a fear to
inflict on other fighters. There's as a passage in the
book as a matchmaker, a pretty good matchmaker named Ron Katz,
and he remembers early in his career he'd have to
push guys out of the dressing room in order to
(10:33):
fight Tyson. So somewhere along the line, I mean, Custo
motto was famous for making Troy Patterson the youngest heavyweight
champion until Mike. Until Mike Tyson, no one wanted anything
to do with Sonny Listing. But somehow Mike became the
studdy listed and somehow the way I think people wanted
(10:57):
a Sonny listen at that time, the rules changed. The
other thing with Cus, let me just if I could
one more thing about Cuss and if Mike. Mike pushed
back on this with me. When I said, hey, maybe
it's not like the smartest thing in the world to
take a kid who's been in and out of spot
right and put him under hypnosis and tell them you're
(11:18):
going to be a scourge from God. I go, maybe
that's not like the way the way to do it.
And I said to me, what Cuss was asking you
to do is make him live forever. It was a
Faustian bargain. Make make the coach immortal. And he's and
you know, I think he credits Cus was saving him
and getting it. He goes, well, well didn't die, didn't
(11:40):
I make him immortal? And yes he did. My question
is at what price? At what price?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And that's a very legitimate question because I got to
ask you this. First of all, did Mike Tyson authorize
this book?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So he did not? I don't know you had these
don't do it like that. I mean we spoke a
couple of times to get some ground rule. He was
not to me. He was very generous, you know, never
been antagonistic. And you know when people typically what would
happen is people calling me, see if it's okay, So
(12:14):
go called keekey. She'll tell you if it's cool or not.
And most of the time it was yes, we have
the same we have the same agent as it as
it happens. But uh, anyway, I to answer your question, no,
but but but he was could give me everything, every
everything I needed. But that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So if he's ghibing you everything that he needed that
you needed to write the book, on him.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Why would he authorize it? But I mean what I mean,
I don't want to be in business with him. I
mean I don't. I've never asked any in other words
like like for instance, I want to do a book
about Joe Namas, and I understand like like Joe thought
of it in his world as as a as a
licensing deal. He wanted money, he wants I don't want
(12:59):
to be in busines this Maravich passed away man Cen.
He cooperated fully. I had no expectation that Mike Tyson
understood retell his life, you know from Mark Kriegle for
for free. I just was like, hey, let's let me,
let me do what I got to do. And he
was okay, and I was more than I could have
(13:20):
totally understand, totally understand.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Did Mike Tyson ever speak about the Michael Speakes fight,
because if you remember, I know you remember this, I
remember this that I believe it was Butcher Lewis the
late promoter God rested, so I think it was him.
Speakes was in the locker room crying because he had
to come out and fight Mike Tyson. But Mike didn't
know that, and he was punching walls because he thought
that Spinks was, you know, using it as a delay tactic,
(13:46):
when in fact it was Spakes was scared to death
that Mike Tyson never talk about that at all.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, no, no, it ends it ends on that. That's that's
a pretty well known incident. But he does, he does
put his hand, he does put his hand through the
wall waiting. But there was a controversy because Butch Lewis
started some stuff. Thought he was get in Mike's head, okay,
and Butch Lewis comes back there and says retape he
(14:13):
wants him to repay because I ain't retaping anything. I'm god.
And it gets into a whole thing with the New
Jersey Athletic Commission. Yeah, there were there were reports that
Sphinx was scared by the way Spinx was like, no Trump.
Spinx was a great courageous fighter. Yeah, Mark, you're talking
to me. You're talking to me. Mark.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Spink was a light heavyweight that moved up. He was
not too heavyweight.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Come on, Mike, no, but hold up. But here's the thing.
Eddie Fudge had a plan. Mike fades after six rounds,
stick and move, Stick and move. Have to be disciplined,
and butch Lewis the Genius City Was goes right across
and tells Michael listen, man to get that man. You
(15:01):
gotta get your respect immediately. And that's what Sphinx does.
And that was I mean, look, it was only a
matter of time anyway. But Sphinx runs across, tries to
throw a right hand, and he just gets smoked because
he went to engage immediately. He listened. He listened instead
of listening to Eddie Futch. You know, he might have
had a shot for a little bit. Look at Mark Kriegel.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I gotta get my glasses because I don't see what
the hell you saying in that guy. I didn't see
Spink walk over to the ring and try to engage Mike.
He looked scared.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
From opening tap. I mean, he wasn't on.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
His bicycle, but he tried to engage Mike.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Mike Tyson, come on down. I didn't see that. I'm
not saying he wasn't scared. I'm not saying he wasn't scared,
but he does go to engage him, and he tried,
and he tried. Even when he tried to get up,
he comes right back after him. And he's throwing the
right hand when he receives the crew de grap got
you last question was you?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Because I gotta get ready to go and I can't
wait to see I can't wait to read this book.
I'm gonna ask you this question any end. Who is
Mike Tyson today? And is he happy?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Happier than he's ever been, happier than he's ever been,
and for the first time in his life, he's his love.
That that's not anything that I could have imagined. And
I think like the great victory And this is where
people like I had been his consistent you know, detractors
(16:33):
or haters, and people who adored him and even Mike
himself could agree on he was never supposed to be
long for this world. His doom was like that was
the safest bet, you know, if you're gonna bet Mike
Tyson's life expectancy, you're gonna bet the under And here
he is, He's beloved, and I think that's that's really
(16:53):
the beauty of the story. And it's a destination that
I mean, no one I know could have imagined.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Wow, Mark Kriegel, the Baddest Man. The Making of Mike
Tyson is out tomorrow, June third, wherever you buy your books.
Mark Kriegel's good to see you, man, it's been a
long time man, Happy to see you.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
What'll take you these? All right? All right one only
Mark creegl right here with Steven Ales.
My next guest is an Emmy Award winning television broadcaster
and journalist and a New York Times bestselling author of
sports biographies on Pete Merrivitch, Joe Namath, and Ray Boom
Boom Mancini. He's out with a new book, Baddest Man,
The Making of Mike Tyson. Please welcome, my buddy. I
haven't talked to him for a long time, but it's
(00:24):
great to see him. The one and only Mark Kriegeler
is right here.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's up, big time? How are you man? Long time?
How you been I'm good. It's great to see you too. Man,
the hardest working man in the sports business. Just on
the grind, Just on the grind, man.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's get right to this because there's a lot that's
going on. You are a young reporter at the New
York Daily News in the eighties when you were swept
up into Mike Tyson Hurricane per se. How did y'all meet?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Let's get that out the way. What was that like?
My first Tyson assignment was shitty. Editor me up about
four in the morning. He went up to haulm go
to tap of Dan's my will? What's tap it dance like? Well?
But no it's a clothing store. Go get up there,
and as you said, I got caught up in that
that swirl. A couple of weeks later, I get a
(01:12):
call he'd torn up the place in Bernrangeville. He was
living with. Robin Gibbings write that I covered his trial,
covered his fights. I didn't become columnists until ninety one.
If you remember when we met, we used to talk
about basketball. You were covering high schools, yeah, and I was.
(01:32):
I was a city side report. I mean we talked
about like Fly Williams. I'd spent a lot of time
in Brownsville as a police reporter. Anyway, I covered his stuff,
but it wasn't until and I'm ashamed to say this,
twenty twelve. And he had been the villain in my
column for years, both at the Post and the News.
(01:53):
Wasn't until twenty twelve that I actually looked on him
as something different. I covered his one man show in
preview in Vegas and it was not polished up yet.
It was still raw. And I listened to it and
it was fully confessional and eviscerating. But I found myself
(02:14):
like holding back tears, and this is a guy I
just killed. I was having a bad day, like well,
I got Mike Tyes in the bash and we met
after the show and I told him about you know,
Mitch and running around with all the robing craziness, and
he says to me, how'd that make you feel? And
(02:34):
he was, I think, newly sober and vegan in that
time or whatever. I said, what do you mean how
to make me feel? What was that like? And he
meant like chasing him around? Thought about it, and I
thought about the the adrenaline of it, and I told
him it was like it was it was a form
of getting high. And he nodded at me, not disapprovingly,
(02:55):
but just in sort of recognition. And to me, that
was the day he became like fully human to me,
not an abstraction, a real real guy. And I didn't
the publisher broke this idea, would you do Tyson? Because
I owe the publisher money on something else, and the
(03:15):
publisher broch this idea, and I was like, I don't.
Hell no, I ain't doing Tyson because my feeling has
always been whether they cooperate with me or not, I
don't care, but I have to love them. And I
didn't love Mike Tyson. I kind of do now. But
I didn't then, And I said, no, I ain't doing
(03:35):
Mike Tyson, I torn my hamstring. So what made so?
What made you decide to do it? What made you
decide to do it? I thought about him. I wasn't
I torn my hamstring. I'm not in my right mind.
I'm thinking about it. That god friend of mine says,
you can't give money back to the publisher at your
duty as a writer. I started thinking about, like who
I was then, who I am now? And I thought
(03:59):
about that day in Vegas and what the guy had survived,
and how I wasn't necessarily wrong, but I was pretty
pig headed in vain about a lot of the stuff
I wrote in the nineties, not proud of all of it.
And I started thinking about what he had survived, woos drugs, Brownsville,
(04:22):
that that whole generation of like stick up kids just
blown off the face of the earth, got it boxing
itself fain. He was famous in a kind of way
that will kill you. That you know, that killed Elvis,
that probably killed Tupac.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, but Mark, let me go here, let me go here.
We thought we've heard everything about Mike Tyson, like when
you're talking about drugs, fame, you know, alcohol, women, whatever
it is. You know, we heard it all before in
our eyes. What is it about Mike Tyson that we're
gonna learn in this book that we don't already know?
(05:01):
Considering the fact that he was an open book, he
was on Front Street. In terms of the fame, we
saw him doing his his his you know, like you said,
in Vegas, Broadway and other places. Spike Lee was producing
these one man shows. We seem to have known everything
about him. What is it that we're gonna learn? Give
us a nugget of what we're going to learn in
(05:22):
this book that we haven't already heard about Mike Tyson.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think to be human, human like you know, there's
there's an incredible loss there that I don't think he
can ever feel. I think probably the closest thing he
came to filling it is right now. He got his
life right with with Kiki, his wife. But you know,
the loss of his mother was some It was a
(05:45):
hole he couldn't fill the relationship with his father. I
think that the idea, the way that this fame was constructed,
the way he was built as a fighter, it's still
relevant today. He drew one hundred, one hundred and eight
(06:07):
million people saw him live stream with Jake Paul. Jake
Paul's pretty good promoter, but he could have only done
that number with Tyson. The question is why why we
addicted to him? Why did he come back? Why was
you know, the third act of a fighter's life is
almost inevitably the tragic one. He's disproved everything, So I
(06:32):
think you're going to find that that he's a human
being in this and a lot of it has to
do with accavating his past as an amateur as a kid.
You know, there are certain things that run through this.
One of the first people I spoke to was was
(06:56):
his brother. His half brother was a running back at
Purdue quit went off to go find himself. Really bright guy,
and you could see certain things like that run through
the Tyson family. First, the guy was a great athlete.
Second of all, he's really really bright and he was searching.
(07:18):
And I think that was that's not unlike Tyson. The
other element to it. I think that there'll never be
another fighter that comes up like this. He had literary
cachet before he had street credit. The all the writers,
(07:38):
some of them great, some of them were like my rabbis,
my teachers, guys like Pete Hamill were so in love
with custom Model that this fable cussing the kid cus
to Model was the original trainer took him out of
a juvenile pension and saved him. You know, I think
that there's something to that that deserves more nuanced, that
(08:02):
deserves to be deserves to be looked at again.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Go on, what do you believe or when do you
believe that Tyson?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
In your eyes?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
What was the point when we talk about him being
humanized per se? He talked about needing to be animalistic,
needing to be the kind of individual that he needs
to be in order to be a boxing champion in
the heavyweight division. When do you think the side you know,
where his humanity is being shown? What do you think
(08:36):
it hit and does the book reveal that? Was it
the whole Robin Gibbons affair. Was it having to deal
with Don King? Was it the fact that he looked
at his own mortality, particularly in the aftermath of losing
to a Vander Holyfield and biting Evander holy Field's ear?
What was the defining moment for the transformation per Se
(08:56):
that you believe is in is in Mike Tyson's head
where he reached the point where he said, Yo, I
can't I can't be this person anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I need to be better. I think. Look, this book
is the first of two volumes. This ends with with
with the Sphinx fight. But I think it came. I
think the reformation, you know, the final blows came with
losing a daughter, marrying Kiki and getting sod. But you
(09:29):
talk about you know, he talks about wanting and needing
to be an animal. His words, not mine. But the
irony is that custom mottol was And this is this
is why I think the history needs to be re examined. Cuts.
The motto was famous for almost a theology of the bully.
(09:51):
How do you beat a bully? When? When? When? When
Ali was fighting Foreman, he consulted with custom motto and
it was the mottola that you run across the ring
and you smack him in the mouth, hit him with
the right hand. Okay. The irony is that Cuts, whether
by design or it just happened, Cuss rays might to
(10:12):
be a bully. There's never been a guy that was
that scared. Uh scary, I mean he was scared too.
But that the way that he used a fear to
inflict on other fighters. There's as a passage in the
book as a matchmaker, a pretty good matchmaker named Ron Katz,
and he remembers early in his career he'd have to
push guys out of the dressing room in order to
(10:33):
fight Tyson. So somewhere along the line, I mean, Custo
motto was famous for making Troy Patterson the youngest heavyweight
champion until Mike. Until Mike Tyson, no one wanted anything
to do with Sonny Listing. But somehow Mike became the
studdy listed and somehow the way I think people wanted
(10:57):
a Sonny listen at that time, the rules changed. The
other thing with Cus, let me just if I could
one more thing about Cuss and if Mike. Mike pushed
back on this with me. When I said, hey, maybe
it's not like the smartest thing in the world to
take a kid who's been in and out of spot
right and put him under hypnosis and tell them you're
(11:18):
going to be a scourge from God. I go, maybe
that's not like the way the way to do it.
And I said to me, what Cuss was asking you
to do is make him live forever. It was a
Faustian bargain. Make make the coach immortal. And he's and
you know, I think he credits Cus was saving him
and getting it. He goes, well, well didn't die, didn't
(11:40):
I make him immortal? And yes he did. My question
is at what price? At what price?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And that's a very legitimate question because I got to
ask you this. First of all, did Mike Tyson authorize
this book?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So he did not? I don't know you had these
don't do it like that. I mean we spoke a
couple of times to get some ground rule. He was
not to me. He was very generous, you know, never
been antagonistic. And you know when people typically what would
happen is people calling me, see if it's okay, So
(12:14):
go called keekey. She'll tell you if it's cool or not.
And most of the time it was yes, we have
the same we have the same agent as it as
it happens. But uh, anyway, I to answer your question, no,
but but but he was could give me everything, every
everything I needed. But that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So if he's ghibing you everything that he needed that
you needed to write the book, on him.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Why would he authorize it? But I mean what I mean,
I don't want to be in business with him. I
mean I don't. I've never asked any in other words
like like for instance, I want to do a book
about Joe Namas, and I understand like like Joe thought
of it in his world as as a as a
licensing deal. He wanted money, he wants I don't want
(12:59):
to be in busines this Maravich passed away man Cen.
He cooperated fully. I had no expectation that Mike Tyson
understood retell his life, you know from Mark Kriegle for
for free. I just was like, hey, let's let me,
let me do what I got to do. And he
was okay, and I was more than I could have
(13:20):
totally understand, totally understand.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Did Mike Tyson ever speak about the Michael Speakes fight,
because if you remember, I know you remember this, I
remember this that I believe it was Butcher Lewis the
late promoter God rested, so I think it was him.
Speakes was in the locker room crying because he had
to come out and fight Mike Tyson. But Mike didn't
know that, and he was punching walls because he thought
that Spinks was, you know, using it as a delay tactic,
(13:46):
when in fact it was Spakes was scared to death
that Mike Tyson never talk about that at all.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, no, no, it ends it ends on that. That's that's
a pretty well known incident. But he does, he does
put his hand, he does put his hand through the
wall waiting. But there was a controversy because Butch Lewis
started some stuff. Thought he was get in Mike's head, okay,
and Butch Lewis comes back there and says retape he
(14:13):
wants him to repay because I ain't retaping anything. I'm god.
And it gets into a whole thing with the New
Jersey Athletic Commission. Yeah, there were there were reports that
Sphinx was scared by the way Spinx was like, no Trump.
Spinx was a great courageous fighter. Yeah, Mark, you're talking
to me. You're talking to me. Mark.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Spink was a light heavyweight that moved up. He was
not too heavyweight.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Come on, Mike, no, but hold up. But here's the thing.
Eddie Fudge had a plan. Mike fades after six rounds,
stick and move, Stick and move. Have to be disciplined,
and butch Lewis the Genius City Was goes right across
and tells Michael listen, man to get that man. You
(15:01):
gotta get your respect immediately. And that's what Sphinx does.
And that was I mean, look, it was only a
matter of time anyway. But Sphinx runs across, tries to
throw a right hand, and he just gets smoked because
he went to engage immediately. He listened. He listened instead
of listening to Eddie Futch. You know, he might have
had a shot for a little bit. Look at Mark Kriegel.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I gotta get my glasses because I don't see what
the hell you saying in that guy. I didn't see
Spink walk over to the ring and try to engage Mike.
He looked scared.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
From opening tap. I mean, he wasn't on.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
His bicycle, but he tried to engage Mike.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Mike Tyson, come on down. I didn't see that. I'm
not saying he wasn't scared. I'm not saying he wasn't scared,
but he does go to engage him, and he tried,
and he tried. Even when he tried to get up,
he comes right back after him. And he's throwing the
right hand when he receives the crew de grap got
you last question was you?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Because I gotta get ready to go and I can't
wait to see I can't wait to read this book.
I'm gonna ask you this question any end. Who is
Mike Tyson today? And is he happy?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Happier than he's ever been, happier than he's ever been,
and for the first time in his life, he's his love.
That that's not anything that I could have imagined. And
I think like the great victory And this is where
people like I had been his consistent you know, detractors
(16:33):
or haters, and people who adored him and even Mike
himself could agree on he was never supposed to be
long for this world. His doom was like that was
the safest bet, you know, if you're gonna bet Mike
Tyson's life expectancy, you're gonna bet the under And here
he is, He's beloved, and I think that's that's really
(16:53):
the beauty of the story. And it's a destination that
I mean, no one I know could have imagined.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Wow, Mark Kriegel, the Baddest Man. The Making of Mike
Tyson is out tomorrow, June third, wherever you buy your books.
Mark Kriegel's good to see you, man, it's been a
long time man, Happy to see you.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
What'll take you these? All right? All right one only
Mark creegl right here with Steven Ales.
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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