May 10, 2025 • 24 mins
Stephen A. Smith is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Executive Producer, host of ESPN's First Take, and co-host of NBA Countdown.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Joining me now to discuss the NBA Playoffs is my buddy,
the senior and the NBA analyst inside as well. It
does a fabulous job for ESPN. Love working with them,
love having them on my daytime show, First Take every
weekday morning. The one and only Brian win Tors is
with me right now. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Man? How you doing? How's everything?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm happy to be here, but I find it hilarious
that you blew out your voice. See, you didn't budget
when you started your week You know you didn't budget
for two maybe one cold open with the Orange and
Blue sky right, you didn't have it in your range
to do two cold opens with the Orange and Blue Skies.
And now you're paying the price. You're lucky it's the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm paying the price, my man. I definitely am. Let
me ask you this. You've been covering this series, You've
been in Boston. What was it like for you personally
to be in Boston witnessing what was happening to the
reigning defending NBA champions at the hands of the New
York Knicks in Games one and two, specifically the fourth
(01:07):
quarter and an overtime in Games one and two.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
When you're the better team. Let's just be honest. The
Celtics are the better team by measure of the regular season.
At least, you usually play with the swagger, and when
you're at home, you usually play with the swagger, and
when you're the defending champions, you usually play with the swagger.
And certainly the Celtics. I've seen him do it in
(01:30):
Game two when the game started, when the Knicks started
tightening up the score, the entire building went tight. It's
not something I've experienced before. And Jalen Brunson was absolutely
He comes into the game nine minutes to go and
(01:50):
he starts going to work three pointer drive, step back
lay up at like four minutes and forty five seconds.
I don't remember who hit the shot. It might have
been Bridges, and all of a sudden, it's five points.
Where everything goes red. There's five points inside five minutes.
It's clutch time. And I said out loud, these sobs
(02:16):
did it. They got it to crunch time. They got
it to clutch time, because that was the thing. It
was like, you know, they're down twenty, they're actually down
sixteen because you know in game one they were only
only they were only down nine starting the fourth quarter.
Anybody can come back from nine to down. You don't
have to be special. They started the fourth quarter in
(02:37):
Game two down twelve in the fourth quarter, so they
had done a good job. It was twenty they cut it,
and then it went to sixteen. It was actually sixteen.
That was a different three possessions, greater to overcome. And
so when they even got it to crunch time, I
was like, damn, they did it again. And then they
just walked them down and the building was tight, and
(02:59):
it's just not something you expect with a team with
what the resume of the Celtics.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Is Game one and two.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
In your eyes, more about what the Knicks are in
terms of their clutch knowing that a guy like Jalen
Brunson and clutch time has outscored the entire.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Celtics team by fourteen to twelve.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Or is it about a diminished product that we're seeing
in the reigning defending NBA champions that is the Boston Celtics.
I know what Tatum brings, I know where Brown brings.
They're both three hundred million dollar plus plays. You got
new ownership in Boston, They're gonna have to make decisions
about the future. You've articulated all of those things very
clearly over the last few days or so. But are
(03:36):
we seeing a diminished Boston Celtics or just the team
suffering the hiccup that's expected to get it together this weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Very savvy question. I think the answer is both. I
think you see a Knicks team that is extremely confident
when they get into the end of a close game.
Jalen Brunson, he he is so calm when he's under pressure.
It's crazy, Like he gets into tough situations when he's
got a live dribble and you're like, how's he getting
(04:04):
out of this one? And he does? You know, they
put a six to nine guy on him, and you're like,
how's he getting out of this one? He gets open,
he is, he's got. He is at the top of
his game, at the top of his confidence level, and
it's a master at work. So that's absolutely happening. But
also the Celtics are diminished. One, I think their confidence
(04:27):
is shaken. I think you see it in some of
the decisions that Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown make at
the end of these games. And two, they don't have
porzingis Porzingis isn't right, And that's probably the most unpredictable
thing in this series. What's gonna happen with Porzingis? Because Porzingis,
I wouldn't say he was their curve ball because he
can hit you at the right hook. I would say
(04:48):
he was like their slider. And especially if you were
having difficulty, you know, scoring from the perimeter. You know, yeah,
he's he's a deadly outside shooter, but you know you
can throw it to him in the post and he
can set for three. He can turn around and cause problems.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Let me stop you right there with Porzingis, because I
heard you on the air talk in the other day.
When you're on air with me, you want to air
with get up on ESPN talking about how you spoke
to Porzingis. He doesn't know what's going on, but just
flat line fatigue is kicked in. And I'm just looking
at numbers here. In two regular season games against the
knixt the season, he's averaged twenty four and a half
points on fifty percent shooting from the field forty five
(05:23):
percent shooting from three point range. In this playoff series
against the Knicks, he's got a total of eight points
on three or nine, shooting one for one on a
three point a, one free throw attempt, no blocks, eight
rebounds in twenty seven minutes total. He clearly has been
a virtual no show because he just hasn't been on
the court for the Boston Celtics. Do we know specifically
(05:44):
what is wrong with porzingis?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
We don't. He was he got sick in February. I
tried to fight through it for a while. Then they
ended up shutting him down and they started, you know,
calling him questionable, and all of a sudden, he's out
three weeks. Eight games he missed, and when he came back,
he said they couldn't diagnose it and they were having
a he was having a real hard time with fatigue.
(06:06):
I think initially they said it was like a upper
respiratory and so you're thinking, you're seeing a guy who's coughing,
you know, running nose, et cetera. That's he doesn't He
doesn't come off sick. He may have wind issues, there
may be a lung thing, for sure. I'm not saying
that's not true. He doesn't look like a guy who's
got the flu. But what he's having a big problem
(06:28):
with from what he says is fatigue, he crashes, and
I think he had been in it. By the way,
when he came back from that time away, his first
five games he was really good. Like it looked like, Okay,
he's pasted it. You're you're talking about stats. In this series,
he was terrible against Orlando. Terrible is not a fair word.
He was. He was not productive against Orlando, certainly not
(06:50):
to his to his normal level, and in Game one
he was fighting it. It really came back in Game
one of this series and the halftime he just he
didn't have energy, and so they brought him off the
bench in Game two, stephen A. And the reason they
brought him off the bench is because I think they're
trying to save his energy. So what I think they're
hoping is he gets two days to rest before Game
(07:13):
three and he can recover. But he has had. He
referred to it as a big crash, that he was
managing it and then all of a sudden he won.
Big crash. That's obviously concerning.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I need two quick answers to this, to these two questions.
If the Boston Celtics lose this series, what will it
mean for this franchise?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I don't know. Because I don't know what the new
owner's appetite for spending is. I know that this is
a team that's proven to be a championship team that
if they hold it together, I would say they would
come out next year and be a top three team
to win it again. It's also going to cost five
hundred million dollars. And here's the thing. It'd be one
thing if you own the Boston The guys who've bought
(07:59):
the Boston Selt have owned it since two thousand and one.
Two thousand and two. They paid a couple hundred million
dollars for it. If it's not paid off, I'm sure
it probably is very close to paid off. They at
the end of the day, you know, they're not paying
a massive mortgage on the team. So if you have
to pay five hundred million and you lose a couple
hundred million, that's one thing. You're dealing with a couple
(08:20):
hundred million dollars loss. Now, if you're buying the team
for six billion, they're actually buying fifty percent of the
team for about three billion. You have to write a
three billion dollar check. However, you're getting that money. This
is not Steve Baumer buying the team. Steve Ballmer when
he bought the Clippers literally said here's a cashier's check
for two billion dollars. He didn't borrow money. He's like,
here you go, that's not the case here. These guys
(08:41):
are leveraging to get this, which is not I'm not
I mean, six billion dollars is a ton of money.
So now you're going to have a mortgage payment. So
imagine you're in a house, you know, and you own
the house outright, no mortgage payment. Now you've now bought
the house. You bought a new house that's thirty times
the price. You got a big mortgage payment due every month.
(09:02):
Now if I tell you that the house costs a
bunch of money to operate and everything like that, now
you're making two payments. You're paying for the operation of
the house and you're paying the mortgage payment. That's what's
coming for the Celtics owners. I don't know what they're
gonna do. They have not because the deal isn't closed or.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Not gonna say so.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I don't know, but I know this five hundred million
dollars is a lot of money. That's not just like
an inconvenience that you get you're gonna have to pay
for a payroll.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The Knicks win this series, how far can they go?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Stephen A. If the Pacers get two more wins over
the Cavs and the Knicks get home court, I realize
they've been better on the road than home. The Knicks
get home court against the Pacers. Hey man, they went
to seven games against the Pacers last year when Ognobi
was out and Jalen you know, got hurt. That's a
that's a. I think the Knicks will be favored in
(09:55):
that series, depending on everybody's health. I mean, it would
be tight. The Pacers have been really good. Maybe it's
a toss up. But considering that the Knicks were the
Knicks in my view, had the toughest draw in the
league because they were looking at for them to win,
they were looking at Detroit. Got to be Boston without
well Detroit for sure, Detroit in Boston, Boston without home court.
(10:17):
Then you're thinking Cleveland without home court. Then they'd be
Oklahoma City without home court. Talk about a gauntlet. If
they get into a series against the Pacers where it's
a toss up series that they have home court in
or they're playing well, it's one of the greatest turnarounds
in situations that you could ever see in an NBA
playoff setting.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
What about the Indiana Paces real quick for a second,
how surprised are you that they've looked this good? I
know there's been injuries, DeAndre Hunter, Evan Mobley, Darius galland
didn't play in game two. They got a pivotal Game
three coming up tonight, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
They got to win this game.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
But still in all, we can't take away from what
we've seen from the Indiana Paces who closed out you know,
you know, Milwaukee, and not only did you do that,
but we saw Tyrese Halliburton actually speak up against his
own father because of how his father acted in Giannis's face.
We didn't talk about that, and now here they are Halliburton,
who was voted quietly privately by no name players who
(11:15):
wouldn't attach their name to it as being overrated. He's
balling out to me, they have no one great, but
a whole bunch of dudes that are really, really good
and they can beat anybody at this point, real quickly,
that's my synopsis of the Indiana Paces.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What's yours?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
If they have somebody great, it's their coach. He's a
great coach and he's a great playoffs coach at Carlisle.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes he is.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
They lost on New Year's Eve to go to sixteen
and eighteen. Halliburton was hurting early. They had some other
injuries since January first. They finished the season thirty four
and fourteen. That was not a four seed. That was
a two seed masquerading as a four seed. That was
a fifty eight win pace that they played on that
from January first. They have depth, they have speed, they
(12:00):
have a style of play, and they have a closer
and they have proven that they can pull it out
their backside. They have twice been down seven points in
the last minute of the game and won in the playoffs.
So maybe that's a little bit fortune there, but they
are a formidable, formidable team.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Moving out to the West. How nervous were you about
Oklahoma City? You've been raving about them all year when
they lost Game one, when Jokic did what he did,
when we see Russell Westbrook playing the way that he played,
when we saw Aaron Gordon playing bully ball, How nervous
were you for your thunder before they annihilated the Nuggets
in Game two?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
There are two things about that first game that we'll worry. So.
Number one, they couldn't get any supporting scoring for Shay
Gildess Alexander, by the way, he had a great game too.
Shay has not had a good postseason so far. This
is a guy who's going to be named MVP probably
next week. His numbers are okay, but they weren't great.
That's what that's that's one thing. Secondly, so then and
(12:55):
they don't have a second score that's reliable. Sometimes they
have a second score, but they don't have a guy
out there that they can count on to deliver, and
that's what cost him in Game one. The second thing
was chet Holmgren got totally dominated by Jokic. And I mean,
obviously Holmgren can't play Jokic the same way. I it'st
the Zubach plays them. They're not built the same way.
But three times in the last couple of years the
(13:17):
Thunder have been in high leverage situations and come up small.
One was in the playoffs last year to the Mavericks.
They had home court in that series, the series was tied.
They melted down the test of that series, tote their
offense completely abandoned them and Luca snatched them. And then
this year in the n Season Tournament where they played Milwaukee,
where they just absolutely laid an egg. That was a
(13:38):
moment for them to win something as a group. They
totally laid an egg. Then in Game one, losing home
court advantage out of the gate. So I've seen them
under pressure all of a sudden, not be able to
score when it matters, and they have the MVP that
shouldn't be the case. So that was more pressure. Moments
are coming and I expect them to overcome that because
they are They have every tool that you need, But
(14:00):
there is that sense of mystery about how it's gonna happen.
What's gonna happen when when that challenge occurs again?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Switching over to Warriors Timberwolves, Obviously we're looking at them.
Steph Curry's going to be out with the strained hamstring.
The likelihood is that for at least games three and four,
and possibly game five. What do you peel away? You
saw the Warriors win in Game one. You saw Steph
Curry score thirteen points in the first thirteen minutes before
(14:28):
he goes down. We saw Draymond Green hit four three
pointers in the first half. We saw Jimmy Butler come
on strong in the second half. We saw none of that.
In Game two, after Finch held Anthony Edwards accountable. We
saw McDaniel's show up. We saw Julius Randalls show up,
we saw ant Man show up. And the three have
(14:49):
combined to hold Jimmy Butler that like thirteen percent shooting
from the field when one of those three are guarding him.
So what do you make of this series thus far
at this particular moment.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
There's two things that have got to happen. One, Jimmy
Butler's got to be more of an offensive engine. They
can't score without Stuff. Their other offensive efficiency plummets by
like twenty five ish percent when he hasn't been out there.
They just can't survive that. I understand they're not going
to totally replace him. That's clear. Jimmy's got to be
(15:19):
more of a factor offensively scoring the ball. The second
thing is this team after the Jimmy Butler trade was
a good defensive team. They're in defensive numbers improved, and
in Game one they won that game because not because
of what they did without Stuff, because they only gave
up eighty eight points. Now, some of that was the Wolves.
They didn't handle their business that well and that's why
(15:39):
Chris Finch got on them. But in Game two, the
Wolves made sixteen to three pointers, and ESPN's tracking said
that every single one of them were deemed open. There's
no other game in the database in the playoff history
where a team has gotten sixteen all sixteen three pointers.
(16:00):
Sixteen or more three pointers were open. They've got to
play better defense. The only way to do this is
to pinch it from both ends. You've got to play
your max level defense and you've got to get some
more scoring. That's how you close the gap in this situation.
They don't have to do it three more times. They're
not winning this series without stuff anyway. They need to
do it one more time, at least at home, probably
(16:20):
in Game three or four, to give the window for
Steph to come back in Game five or six and
give them a fighting chance and what's hopefully a three
game series.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Switching to Draymond Green, obviously he made news for a
different reason, and I appreciate your participation in the discussion
with myself and Mike Willbond on ESPN's first take earlier
this morning. And I'm certainly not asking you to elaborate
on his comments about being portrayed as an angry black man.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I took care of that in the first segment at
the top of this show.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But what I wanted to ask you is is that,
in terms of Draymond Green's image, in your estimation as
somebody who overs this league and as somebody.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Who walks the streets with people coming up.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
To you about what you know about this league, what
would you qualify or classify as the perception that Draymond
Green has And how fear or unfeared do you think
it is.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I think people in the league feel like he's one
of the great defensive players in the last twenty five years,
one of the great influence influencers of the game, where
he can control the game, especially for a guy who
is not a scorer. His ability to control the game
without being a scorer, have a big influence on the
control of the game, because of his screen setting, because
(17:40):
of the way he can defend, because of the way
he can take the you know, take the ball off
the glass, go down and be the point center, the
way he can play two man basketball with Steph where
they're just basically reading each other. They're impossible to prepare
for because when the two of them are working together,
it's just read and react, read and react. And he's
just such He's so quick on his feet and so
smart and makes him so savvy. And people in the
(18:03):
league think that he savely controls the officials, that he's
sly like a fox in the way he does things
and the way he applies pressure to the officials and
the way he you know, is so demonstrative, and and
they feel like there are many times when he can
(18:23):
manipulate the officials to sort of lean them in one
way or the other because of the way he behaves
that there is that, Yes, there are times when he
loses control, but a lot of it is totally calculated.
That what he is doing is putting the officials into
a corner to achieve a certain edge. There is an
admiration for him within the league for that. However, he
(18:45):
also loses control. For as savvy and nuanced of a
game that he plays, there are times when that all
goes up the window he loses control, which has happened
unfortunately a number of times. This is a guy who
I think there's no chance the Warriors win the twenty
twenty two title wl out him. He was absolutely brilliant
during that season and in that playoff run. I know
(19:05):
he had a complicated finals where he I think he
got benched at one point, but he was brilliant in
closeout game. No way they went without, no way they
went with that them. So the twenty twenty sixth title,
Draymond's got both hands on that ring. And he derailed
the twenty twenty three season by sucker punching his teammate,
and he damaged the twenty twenty four season by the
(19:26):
suspensions that that fourth then ended up significantly forcing the
Warriors into the play in And obviously his role in
the other in the previous three titles is unquestioned. But
just in the last three seasons, he's Harry, not carried,
but like good, shoulder to shoulder with Steph to win
the title and undercut two seasons, and this year he's
(19:48):
working hard. We're going to find out which way it's
going to go. And you know, the Warrior's eyes are
wide open. They totally understand what it means to be
in business with Raymond Green. They they've dedicated themselves and
protected them and rededicated themselves over and over. But that
is the dynamic player that you're getting, a guy who
(20:08):
is a genius and brilliant who also can do things
that can hurt you badly, but he can't take back.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What about what he said coming into this series, if
not the playoffs overall, where he said he sat down
and spoke with Steve Kerr, he spoke to his family
and he had to do some reflection, looking at himself
and thinking about what he needed to do better.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
If we're sitting here today and he's going off about
how he's being portrayed.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
We've heard it all before. You know. He did a
story with an ESPN Our Warriors reporter Omeong masuk Or.
He detailed after he was suspended indefinitely for the Rudy
Gobert incident last year, they made him go to like
essentially counseling sessions, but it wasn't just with a counselor.
It was with a whole bunch of different people who
(20:58):
basically acted as a village for him. And he didn't
want to do it and he was annoyed by it,
and he discussed how it really helped him and how
he started to lean on it. And it was a
beautifully done story, giving insight into Draymond's thinking and how
he's trying to better himself. And you come away from
that story saying, this is a very earnest, raw and
(21:19):
impersonal view of how he's fighting his challenges. And then
he goes out there and commits five technicals and two
flagrants in nine games, and so you can see why
the people closest to Draymond have complicated relationships with the situation.
They treasure him, they love him, they protect him, and
he absolutely drives them crazy and he absolutely leads them
(21:42):
to victory. He's one of the more complicated great players
of this generation.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Before we go, if I tell you, I'm going to
give you this series and you tell me what you
believe it will be.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
After four games, Cleveland Indiana.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Three one, Indiana Knicks Boston to two, I'm gonna duck.
I'm gonna duck. I'm two blocks in the garden. I'm
gonna duck. The Knicks are gonna be so angry.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You think you're telling me you believe that the Boston
Celtics are walking into Madison Square Garden and they're gonna win.
They're gonna take both games of Madison Square Garden away
from the New York Knicks.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Is that what you just said? Is that what you
just said, Brian.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I don't believe it, but I think that's what's gonna happen.
I don't believe it because I do believe in the
Knicks ability. Every way I know to evaluate the game
is saying to me that the Celtics should be winning
these games, but they're not. So I look at it
and say, the Celtics can very easily be up too low.
(22:45):
And my my analysis side of my brain says the
Celtics will win the next two knowing everything that I know,
but I have to admit I can't quite identify why
in Knicks one games one and two. So the analysis
side of everything is being defeated. And that's what is
(23:06):
happening for the whole Celtics organization right now, that their
analytical analysis philosophy is being defeated by the Knicks. Confidence.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Okay, Okay, see Denver three one.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I'm sorry, I think there'll be two to two going
back to Okay, see.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
He's gonna go. They're gonna split in Denver.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I know, I Game three is gonna tell me everything.
You know, Oklahoma City could win by twenty five, and
you're like, Okay, this is a five game series. But
I think Denver has to press very hard in Game three,
and if if Denver pulls that out, then I think
you're looking at to too that the Oklahoma City losing
(23:49):
Game one at home opened the door for that to
be a long series, assuming that they can get one
more home.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Minnesota, Golden State.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Sorry to say, but I got three to one Minnesota.
I was so I was so disheartened by their effort
in game two. They are going home. They could get
a hot shooting game. I mean, that's the thing about
the Knicks. The Knicks haven't shot the ball well yet.
You know, the Knicks can undo any analysis by just
getting hot. You can get hot at home. But I'm
(24:22):
leaning more towards Minnesota. Three. Minnesota is twenty two and
five in his last twenty seven games. They are playing
really well, just like Indiana is playing really well.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Brian went ass appreciate you man. Keep up the great work.
We'll talk next week.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
All right, thanks for having me have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You do the same well, not only Brian windows right,
here on the Stephen A. Smith Show, over the digital
airwaves or YouTube, and of course iHeartRadio.
Joining me now to discuss the NBA Playoffs is my buddy,
the senior and the NBA analyst inside as well. It
does a fabulous job for ESPN. Love working with them,
love having them on my daytime show, First Take every
weekday morning. The one and only Brian win Tors is
with me right now. What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Man? How you doing? How's everything?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm happy to be here, but I find it hilarious
that you blew out your voice. See, you didn't budget
when you started your week You know you didn't budget
for two maybe one cold open with the Orange and
Blue sky right, you didn't have it in your range
to do two cold opens with the Orange and Blue Skies.
And now you're paying the price. You're lucky it's the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm paying the price, my man. I definitely am. Let
me ask you this. You've been covering this series, You've
been in Boston. What was it like for you personally
to be in Boston witnessing what was happening to the
reigning defending NBA champions at the hands of the New
York Knicks in Games one and two, specifically the fourth
(01:07):
quarter and an overtime in Games one and two.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
When you're the better team. Let's just be honest. The
Celtics are the better team by measure of the regular season.
At least, you usually play with the swagger, and when
you're at home, you usually play with the swagger, and
when you're the defending champions, you usually play with the swagger.
And certainly the Celtics. I've seen him do it in
(01:30):
Game two when the game started, when the Knicks started
tightening up the score, the entire building went tight. It's
not something I've experienced before. And Jalen Brunson was absolutely
He comes into the game nine minutes to go and
(01:50):
he starts going to work three pointer drive, step back
lay up at like four minutes and forty five seconds.
I don't remember who hit the shot. It might have
been Bridges, and all of a sudden, it's five points.
Where everything goes red. There's five points inside five minutes.
It's clutch time. And I said out loud, these sobs
(02:16):
did it. They got it to crunch time. They got
it to clutch time, because that was the thing. It
was like, you know, they're down twenty, they're actually down
sixteen because you know in game one they were only
only they were only down nine starting the fourth quarter.
Anybody can come back from nine to down. You don't
have to be special. They started the fourth quarter in
(02:37):
Game two down twelve in the fourth quarter, so they
had done a good job. It was twenty they cut it,
and then it went to sixteen. It was actually sixteen.
That was a different three possessions, greater to overcome. And
so when they even got it to crunch time, I
was like, damn, they did it again. And then they
just walked them down and the building was tight, and
(02:59):
it's just not something you expect with a team with
what the resume of the Celtics.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Is Game one and two.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
In your eyes, more about what the Knicks are in
terms of their clutch knowing that a guy like Jalen
Brunson and clutch time has outscored the entire.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Celtics team by fourteen to twelve.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Or is it about a diminished product that we're seeing
in the reigning defending NBA champions that is the Boston Celtics.
I know what Tatum brings, I know where Brown brings.
They're both three hundred million dollar plus plays. You got
new ownership in Boston, They're gonna have to make decisions
about the future. You've articulated all of those things very
clearly over the last few days or so. But are
(03:36):
we seeing a diminished Boston Celtics or just the team
suffering the hiccup that's expected to get it together this weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Very savvy question. I think the answer is both. I
think you see a Knicks team that is extremely confident
when they get into the end of a close game.
Jalen Brunson, he he is so calm when he's under pressure.
It's crazy, Like he gets into tough situations when he's
got a live dribble and you're like, how's he getting
(04:04):
out of this one? And he does? You know, they
put a six to nine guy on him, and you're like,
how's he getting out of this one? He gets open,
he is, he's got. He is at the top of
his game, at the top of his confidence level, and
it's a master at work. So that's absolutely happening. But
also the Celtics are diminished. One, I think their confidence
(04:27):
is shaken. I think you see it in some of
the decisions that Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown make at
the end of these games. And two, they don't have
porzingis Porzingis isn't right, And that's probably the most unpredictable
thing in this series. What's gonna happen with Porzingis? Because Porzingis,
I wouldn't say he was their curve ball because he
can hit you at the right hook. I would say
(04:48):
he was like their slider. And especially if you were
having difficulty, you know, scoring from the perimeter. You know, yeah,
he's he's a deadly outside shooter, but you know you
can throw it to him in the post and he
can set for three. He can turn around and cause problems.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Let me stop you right there with Porzingis, because I
heard you on the air talk in the other day.
When you're on air with me, you want to air
with get up on ESPN talking about how you spoke
to Porzingis. He doesn't know what's going on, but just
flat line fatigue is kicked in. And I'm just looking
at numbers here. In two regular season games against the
knixt the season, he's averaged twenty four and a half
points on fifty percent shooting from the field forty five
(05:23):
percent shooting from three point range. In this playoff series
against the Knicks, he's got a total of eight points
on three or nine, shooting one for one on a
three point a, one free throw attempt, no blocks, eight
rebounds in twenty seven minutes total. He clearly has been
a virtual no show because he just hasn't been on
the court for the Boston Celtics. Do we know specifically
(05:44):
what is wrong with porzingis?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
We don't. He was he got sick in February. I
tried to fight through it for a while. Then they
ended up shutting him down and they started, you know,
calling him questionable, and all of a sudden, he's out
three weeks. Eight games he missed, and when he came back,
he said they couldn't diagnose it and they were having
a he was having a real hard time with fatigue.
(06:06):
I think initially they said it was like a upper
respiratory and so you're thinking, you're seeing a guy who's coughing,
you know, running nose, et cetera. That's he doesn't He
doesn't come off sick. He may have wind issues, there
may be a lung thing, for sure. I'm not saying
that's not true. He doesn't look like a guy who's
got the flu. But what he's having a big problem
(06:28):
with from what he says is fatigue, he crashes, and
I think he had been in it. By the way,
when he came back from that time away, his first
five games he was really good. Like it looked like, Okay,
he's pasted it. You're you're talking about stats. In this series,
he was terrible against Orlando. Terrible is not a fair word.
He was. He was not productive against Orlando, certainly not
(06:50):
to his to his normal level, and in Game one
he was fighting it. It really came back in Game
one of this series and the halftime he just he
didn't have energy, and so they brought him off the
bench in Game two, stephen A. And the reason they
brought him off the bench is because I think they're
trying to save his energy. So what I think they're
hoping is he gets two days to rest before Game
(07:13):
three and he can recover. But he has had. He
referred to it as a big crash, that he was
managing it and then all of a sudden he won.
Big crash. That's obviously concerning.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I need two quick answers to this, to these two questions.
If the Boston Celtics lose this series, what will it
mean for this franchise?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I don't know. Because I don't know what the new
owner's appetite for spending is. I know that this is
a team that's proven to be a championship team that
if they hold it together, I would say they would
come out next year and be a top three team
to win it again. It's also going to cost five
hundred million dollars. And here's the thing. It'd be one
thing if you own the Boston The guys who've bought
(07:59):
the Boston Selt have owned it since two thousand and one.
Two thousand and two. They paid a couple hundred million
dollars for it. If it's not paid off, I'm sure
it probably is very close to paid off. They at
the end of the day, you know, they're not paying
a massive mortgage on the team. So if you have
to pay five hundred million and you lose a couple
hundred million, that's one thing. You're dealing with a couple
(08:20):
hundred million dollars loss. Now, if you're buying the team
for six billion, they're actually buying fifty percent of the
team for about three billion. You have to write a
three billion dollar check. However, you're getting that money. This
is not Steve Baumer buying the team. Steve Ballmer when
he bought the Clippers literally said here's a cashier's check
for two billion dollars. He didn't borrow money. He's like,
here you go, that's not the case here. These guys
(08:41):
are leveraging to get this, which is not I'm not
I mean, six billion dollars is a ton of money.
So now you're going to have a mortgage payment. So
imagine you're in a house, you know, and you own
the house outright, no mortgage payment. Now you've now bought
the house. You bought a new house that's thirty times
the price. You got a big mortgage payment due every month.
(09:02):
Now if I tell you that the house costs a
bunch of money to operate and everything like that, now
you're making two payments. You're paying for the operation of
the house and you're paying the mortgage payment. That's what's
coming for the Celtics owners. I don't know what they're
gonna do. They have not because the deal isn't closed or.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Not gonna say so.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I don't know, but I know this five hundred million
dollars is a lot of money. That's not just like
an inconvenience that you get you're gonna have to pay
for a payroll.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The Knicks win this series, how far can they go?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Stephen A. If the Pacers get two more wins over
the Cavs and the Knicks get home court, I realize
they've been better on the road than home. The Knicks
get home court against the Pacers. Hey man, they went
to seven games against the Pacers last year when Ognobi
was out and Jalen you know, got hurt. That's a
that's a. I think the Knicks will be favored in
(09:55):
that series, depending on everybody's health. I mean, it would
be tight. The Pacers have been really good. Maybe it's
a toss up. But considering that the Knicks were the
Knicks in my view, had the toughest draw in the
league because they were looking at for them to win,
they were looking at Detroit. Got to be Boston without
well Detroit for sure, Detroit in Boston, Boston without home court.
(10:17):
Then you're thinking Cleveland without home court. Then they'd be
Oklahoma City without home court. Talk about a gauntlet. If
they get into a series against the Pacers where it's
a toss up series that they have home court in
or they're playing well, it's one of the greatest turnarounds
in situations that you could ever see in an NBA
playoff setting.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
What about the Indiana Paces real quick for a second,
how surprised are you that they've looked this good? I
know there's been injuries, DeAndre Hunter, Evan Mobley, Darius galland
didn't play in game two. They got a pivotal Game
three coming up tonight, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
They got to win this game.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
But still in all, we can't take away from what
we've seen from the Indiana Paces who closed out you know,
you know, Milwaukee, and not only did you do that,
but we saw Tyrese Halliburton actually speak up against his
own father because of how his father acted in Giannis's face.
We didn't talk about that, and now here they are Halliburton,
who was voted quietly privately by no name players who
(11:15):
wouldn't attach their name to it as being overrated. He's
balling out to me, they have no one great, but
a whole bunch of dudes that are really, really good
and they can beat anybody at this point, real quickly,
that's my synopsis of the Indiana Paces.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What's yours?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
If they have somebody great, it's their coach. He's a
great coach and he's a great playoffs coach at Carlisle.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes he is.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
They lost on New Year's Eve to go to sixteen
and eighteen. Halliburton was hurting early. They had some other
injuries since January first. They finished the season thirty four
and fourteen. That was not a four seed. That was
a two seed masquerading as a four seed. That was
a fifty eight win pace that they played on that
from January first. They have depth, they have speed, they
(12:00):
have a style of play, and they have a closer
and they have proven that they can pull it out
their backside. They have twice been down seven points in
the last minute of the game and won in the playoffs.
So maybe that's a little bit fortune there, but they
are a formidable, formidable team.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Moving out to the West. How nervous were you about
Oklahoma City? You've been raving about them all year when
they lost Game one, when Jokic did what he did,
when we see Russell Westbrook playing the way that he played,
when we saw Aaron Gordon playing bully ball, How nervous
were you for your thunder before they annihilated the Nuggets
in Game two?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
There are two things about that first game that we'll worry. So.
Number one, they couldn't get any supporting scoring for Shay
Gildess Alexander, by the way, he had a great game too.
Shay has not had a good postseason so far. This
is a guy who's going to be named MVP probably
next week. His numbers are okay, but they weren't great.
That's what that's that's one thing. Secondly, so then and
(12:55):
they don't have a second score that's reliable. Sometimes they
have a second score, but they don't have a guy
out there that they can count on to deliver, and
that's what cost him in Game one. The second thing
was chet Holmgren got totally dominated by Jokic. And I mean,
obviously Holmgren can't play Jokic the same way. I it'st
the Zubach plays them. They're not built the same way.
But three times in the last couple of years the
(13:17):
Thunder have been in high leverage situations and come up small.
One was in the playoffs last year to the Mavericks.
They had home court in that series, the series was tied.
They melted down the test of that series, tote their
offense completely abandoned them and Luca snatched them. And then
this year in the n Season Tournament where they played Milwaukee,
where they just absolutely laid an egg. That was a
(13:38):
moment for them to win something as a group. They
totally laid an egg. Then in Game one, losing home
court advantage out of the gate. So I've seen them
under pressure all of a sudden, not be able to
score when it matters, and they have the MVP that
shouldn't be the case. So that was more pressure. Moments
are coming and I expect them to overcome that because
they are They have every tool that you need, But
(14:00):
there is that sense of mystery about how it's gonna happen.
What's gonna happen when when that challenge occurs again?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Switching over to Warriors Timberwolves, Obviously we're looking at them.
Steph Curry's going to be out with the strained hamstring.
The likelihood is that for at least games three and four,
and possibly game five. What do you peel away? You
saw the Warriors win in Game one. You saw Steph
Curry score thirteen points in the first thirteen minutes before
(14:28):
he goes down. We saw Draymond Green hit four three
pointers in the first half. We saw Jimmy Butler come
on strong in the second half. We saw none of that.
In Game two, after Finch held Anthony Edwards accountable. We
saw McDaniel's show up. We saw Julius Randalls show up,
we saw ant Man show up. And the three have
(14:49):
combined to hold Jimmy Butler that like thirteen percent shooting
from the field when one of those three are guarding him.
So what do you make of this series thus far
at this particular moment.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
There's two things that have got to happen. One, Jimmy
Butler's got to be more of an offensive engine. They
can't score without Stuff. Their other offensive efficiency plummets by
like twenty five ish percent when he hasn't been out there.
They just can't survive that. I understand they're not going
to totally replace him. That's clear. Jimmy's got to be
(15:19):
more of a factor offensively scoring the ball. The second
thing is this team after the Jimmy Butler trade was
a good defensive team. They're in defensive numbers improved, and
in Game one they won that game because not because
of what they did without Stuff, because they only gave
up eighty eight points. Now, some of that was the Wolves.
They didn't handle their business that well and that's why
(15:39):
Chris Finch got on them. But in Game two, the
Wolves made sixteen to three pointers, and ESPN's tracking said
that every single one of them were deemed open. There's
no other game in the database in the playoff history
where a team has gotten sixteen all sixteen three pointers.
(16:00):
Sixteen or more three pointers were open. They've got to
play better defense. The only way to do this is
to pinch it from both ends. You've got to play
your max level defense and you've got to get some
more scoring. That's how you close the gap in this situation.
They don't have to do it three more times. They're
not winning this series without stuff anyway. They need to
do it one more time, at least at home, probably
(16:20):
in Game three or four, to give the window for
Steph to come back in Game five or six and
give them a fighting chance and what's hopefully a three
game series.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Switching to Draymond Green, obviously he made news for a
different reason, and I appreciate your participation in the discussion
with myself and Mike Willbond on ESPN's first take earlier
this morning. And I'm certainly not asking you to elaborate
on his comments about being portrayed as an angry black man.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I took care of that in the first segment at
the top of this show.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But what I wanted to ask you is is that,
in terms of Draymond Green's image, in your estimation as
somebody who overs this league and as somebody.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Who walks the streets with people coming up.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
To you about what you know about this league, what
would you qualify or classify as the perception that Draymond
Green has And how fear or unfeared do you think
it is.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I think people in the league feel like he's one
of the great defensive players in the last twenty five years,
one of the great influence influencers of the game, where
he can control the game, especially for a guy who
is not a scorer. His ability to control the game
without being a scorer, have a big influence on the
control of the game, because of his screen setting, because
(17:40):
of the way he can defend, because of the way
he can take the you know, take the ball off
the glass, go down and be the point center, the
way he can play two man basketball with Steph where
they're just basically reading each other. They're impossible to prepare
for because when the two of them are working together,
it's just read and react, read and react. And he's
just such He's so quick on his feet and so
smart and makes him so savvy. And people in the
(18:03):
league think that he savely controls the officials, that he's
sly like a fox in the way he does things
and the way he applies pressure to the officials and
the way he you know, is so demonstrative, and and
they feel like there are many times when he can
(18:23):
manipulate the officials to sort of lean them in one
way or the other because of the way he behaves
that there is that, Yes, there are times when he
loses control, but a lot of it is totally calculated.
That what he is doing is putting the officials into
a corner to achieve a certain edge. There is an
admiration for him within the league for that. However, he
(18:45):
also loses control. For as savvy and nuanced of a
game that he plays, there are times when that all
goes up the window he loses control, which has happened
unfortunately a number of times. This is a guy who
I think there's no chance the Warriors win the twenty
twenty two title wl out him. He was absolutely brilliant
during that season and in that playoff run. I know
(19:05):
he had a complicated finals where he I think he
got benched at one point, but he was brilliant in
closeout game. No way they went without, no way they
went with that them. So the twenty twenty sixth title,
Draymond's got both hands on that ring. And he derailed
the twenty twenty three season by sucker punching his teammate,
and he damaged the twenty twenty four season by the
(19:26):
suspensions that that fourth then ended up significantly forcing the
Warriors into the play in And obviously his role in
the other in the previous three titles is unquestioned. But
just in the last three seasons, he's Harry, not carried,
but like good, shoulder to shoulder with Steph to win
the title and undercut two seasons, and this year he's
(19:48):
working hard. We're going to find out which way it's
going to go. And you know, the Warrior's eyes are
wide open. They totally understand what it means to be
in business with Raymond Green. They they've dedicated themselves and
protected them and rededicated themselves over and over. But that
is the dynamic player that you're getting, a guy who
(20:08):
is a genius and brilliant who also can do things
that can hurt you badly, but he can't take back.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What about what he said coming into this series, if
not the playoffs overall, where he said he sat down
and spoke with Steve Kerr, he spoke to his family
and he had to do some reflection, looking at himself
and thinking about what he needed to do better.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
If we're sitting here today and he's going off about
how he's being portrayed.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
We've heard it all before. You know. He did a
story with an ESPN Our Warriors reporter Omeong masuk Or.
He detailed after he was suspended indefinitely for the Rudy
Gobert incident last year, they made him go to like
essentially counseling sessions, but it wasn't just with a counselor.
It was with a whole bunch of different people who
(20:58):
basically acted as a village for him. And he didn't
want to do it and he was annoyed by it,
and he discussed how it really helped him and how
he started to lean on it. And it was a
beautifully done story, giving insight into Draymond's thinking and how
he's trying to better himself. And you come away from
that story saying, this is a very earnest, raw and
(21:19):
impersonal view of how he's fighting his challenges. And then
he goes out there and commits five technicals and two
flagrants in nine games, and so you can see why
the people closest to Draymond have complicated relationships with the situation.
They treasure him, they love him, they protect him, and
he absolutely drives them crazy and he absolutely leads them
(21:42):
to victory. He's one of the more complicated great players
of this generation.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Before we go, if I tell you, I'm going to
give you this series and you tell me what you
believe it will be.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
After four games, Cleveland Indiana.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Three one, Indiana Knicks Boston to two, I'm gonna duck.
I'm gonna duck. I'm two blocks in the garden. I'm
gonna duck. The Knicks are gonna be so angry.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You think you're telling me you believe that the Boston
Celtics are walking into Madison Square Garden and they're gonna win.
They're gonna take both games of Madison Square Garden away
from the New York Knicks.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Is that what you just said? Is that what you
just said, Brian.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I don't believe it, but I think that's what's gonna happen.
I don't believe it because I do believe in the
Knicks ability. Every way I know to evaluate the game
is saying to me that the Celtics should be winning
these games, but they're not. So I look at it
and say, the Celtics can very easily be up too low.
(22:45):
And my my analysis side of my brain says the
Celtics will win the next two knowing everything that I know,
but I have to admit I can't quite identify why
in Knicks one games one and two. So the analysis
side of everything is being defeated. And that's what is
(23:06):
happening for the whole Celtics organization right now, that their
analytical analysis philosophy is being defeated by the Knicks. Confidence.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Okay, Okay, see Denver three one.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I'm sorry, I think there'll be two to two going
back to Okay, see.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
He's gonna go. They're gonna split in Denver.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I know, I Game three is gonna tell me everything.
You know, Oklahoma City could win by twenty five, and
you're like, Okay, this is a five game series. But
I think Denver has to press very hard in Game three,
and if if Denver pulls that out, then I think
you're looking at to too that the Oklahoma City losing
(23:49):
Game one at home opened the door for that to
be a long series, assuming that they can get one
more home.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Minnesota, Golden State.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Sorry to say, but I got three to one Minnesota.
I was so I was so disheartened by their effort
in game two. They are going home. They could get
a hot shooting game. I mean, that's the thing about
the Knicks. The Knicks haven't shot the ball well yet.
You know, the Knicks can undo any analysis by just
getting hot. You can get hot at home. But I'm
(24:22):
leaning more towards Minnesota. Three. Minnesota is twenty two and
five in his last twenty seven games. They are playing
really well, just like Indiana is playing really well.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Brian went ass appreciate you man. Keep up the great work.
We'll talk next week.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
All right, thanks for having me have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You do the same well, not only Brian windows right,
here on the Stephen A. Smith Show, over the digital
airwaves or YouTube, and of course iHeartRadio.
Host
Stephen A. Smith
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