August 19, 2025 • 22 mins
On this episode, Lisa interviews Fred Fleitz, former National Security Council Chief of Staff under President Trump, about the Trump-Putin summit in Alaska and the ongoing Ukraine conflict. Fleitz highlights Trump’s strong, pragmatic leadership and contrasts it with the Biden administration’s failures, arguing that Trump’s America First approach is restoring U.S. influence and global stability. The discussion covers Trump’s success in brokering peace deals, the need for tough negotiations with Russia, and the importance of economic incentives in diplomacy. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we try
to get to the heart of the issues that matter
to you. Today we're talking all things foreign policy and
trying to achieve peace throughout the world.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Roner to have Fred.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Flights, vice chair of the America First Policy Institute, Center
for American Security and former chief of Staff at the
National Security Council under President Trump, someone who understands President
Trump's line of thinking when it comes to foreign policy.
So we're going to discuss that pivotal Trump putin meeting
in Alaska. What does it mean, What are the implications
for trying to resolve the Ukraine conflict. We also talk
(00:35):
about the broader strategic dynamics shaping US foreign policy. Why
has President Trump been able to broker so many peace deals,
what makes them so different than past presidents. We're going
to dig into someone who knows, understands the man and
also understands the foreign policy implications of all of this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So stay tuned for Fred Flights. Fred, it's great to
have you on this show.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's been a while since we've caught up, so I
appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Making the time good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So looking at this summit in Alaska. I guess sort of,
are you what's your broad takeaway? It's it's you know,
it's been criticized by the media, but obviously that doesn't
always mean much because they don't get anything correct.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
But what are your takeaways from it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, well, you know, President Trump is just so frustrated
with the mainstream media. He tweeted a little while ago
that if Russia had surrendered the whole country to Ukraine,
they still claim this was a failure for Trump. And
I think that that's exactly right. Whatever Trump does, they're against.
And you know, Europe loves to complain and criticize Trump
(01:43):
for what he's doing, but there's no alternative. The only
reason is a peace plan or peace process is because
of Trump. Europeans didn't do this before he was elected.
What happened in Alaska was that Trump went to Putin
and he determined that he had enough progress to go
to the next age. And we know from history that
peacemaking is hard and coming up with agreements to stop
(02:06):
wars usually takes painstaking negotiations. So there were some things
agreed to, some weren't agreed to. Some were sensitive issues
that Trump has to talk to the Europeans and Zelensky
about and the fact that there's a second stage that
Trump's going to meeting was Lensky and the Europeans today,
I think is very promising. The most important thing out
of the summit was talked that there may be an
(02:28):
agreement of security assurances that Russia may agree to that
something that the Europeans in the US might do to
prevent Russia from evading again. If that's true, it could
be a change to the whole scenario that might mean
a long lasting peace agreement.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Do you think it was a positive meeting?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Trump says it was a positive meeting. It was a
ten out of ten, and I think looking at what happened,
it was probably the best we could get out of Putin.
It's worth noting that our relations with Russia was very
bad under Biden. Remember Biden didn't speak to Putin after
February twenty twenty two. He did nothing but demonize him.
Biden once compared Putin du Amas and this is some
(03:11):
of the baggage that Trump had overcome to get a
peace process started. So I think it was as positive
as possible. There's a long way to go, but I
think if Trump determined that Putin wasn't interested in negotiating
good faith to end the war, he would have walked away.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, and he said that, you know, I remember
in his interview with Brett Baer, he was saying that,
if you know, if he's unhappy at any point, or
he feels like Putin's kind of give him the run around,
that he's out, he's willing to walk.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And I believe that. I also just think it's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Look, President Trump is indicated or demonstrated even during his
first arm he's always willing to talk, He's always willing
to negotiate. And Putin, you know, obviously chose to do
this under Biden. He wouldn't have done it under Trump.
What do you think Putin wants from all this?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, first of all, to that point, you know, people
were saying this is a big win for Putin because
he got a meeting with Trump. That's just wrong. American
and Russian presidents should be meeting and talking all the time.
The fact that Biden didn't do this made the world
less safe. And as you said, Trump wants to speak
to Putin, he wants to speak to i Ron's leaders,
to China's leaders. That's good statesmanship that keeps the world
(04:23):
more stable and secure. So whether there's a meeting, one
succeeded or failed, I think Trump accomplished something. I think
Putin is looking for a way out of the war.
He would take as much Ukrainian territory as you can
get away with, but he wants to avoid punishing sanctions
from the United States. And I'm hoping he sees Trump
(04:46):
as his one opportunity to end Russia's isolation and maybe
strike deals. It would make Russia more prosperous.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And Zelensi probably just wants Russia out of all of
its territory. They want like a complete withdrawal.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, Zelenski wants that. He wants native membership, he wants
a U membership, and I wish you could get these things,
but they're not going to happen, and I think that
Zelensky has to focus on what's possible. I understand this
is really hard. He's going to lose part of his country,
but he can't be blaming Trump for this. There was
a time in twenty twenty two, in mid to the
(05:25):
fall twenty twenty two that if Biden and European leaders
had sent Ukraine the weapons they needed, they could have
pushed the Russians back. They didn't do that. Now the
Russians are dug in and they're advancing. Ukraine's running out
of troops. Ukraine has to strike the best deal it
can to save his country and to stop the killing.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I guess the challenge is, you know, we saw recently
in the Oval Office that spat between Zelenski and President
Trump and JD.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Vans and then you know, Zelenski is essentially it kicked.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Out of my house, you know, like and you know
this is very public spat. Uh. I mean, I mean,
I think the challenge to me seems to like, can
Zelensky look at this in a clear eyed way. He
just seems like he's very emotionally charged in the way
he conducts business, which is challenging when you're trying to
(06:15):
get someone to reason with someone and to get them
to see things because you know, ultimately, as you pointed out,
Zelensky is probably gonna have to give up some of Ukraine,
but it just doesn't you know, it seems like he
sort of behaves a little bit belligerently.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Is that a fair assessment or how much of a challenge.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Do you think Zelensky is going to be and trying
to get him on the board with any sort of
peace agreement.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I don't think we're going to see the same blow
up in the Oval office that we saw last time.
But let's talk about what happened there. Zelensky was arguing
with Trump before the meeting. During the meeting, he was
rolling his eyes, acting very disrespectful for Trump. But what
people don't realize is that Zelensky was told to resist,
not just by the Europeans but by Democratic members of Congress.
(06:59):
Zelensky was given bad advice, and I think he paid
a price for that. It's set back peace efforts. I
think he's learned since then not to mess with Trump
and not to listen to people who have their own agendas.
I mean, the Democrats just want Trump to fail, and
their media was Zelensky all the time. They're they're they're
telling them all kinds of stuff that's not going to
end the war. I think Lynski realizes Trump's the only
(07:22):
one who can end this war. He may not like that,
but he has to deal with Trump.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Is it fair to say the Europeans are sort of
warming to President Trump? Or sort of like listening to him,
you know, the NATO chief. I think it was like
a month ago, call him daddy, like you like try
to like lay on the charm. Is it fair to
say that, you know, Europeans are kind of uh, I
guess looking up to him more at.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
This point than maybe right when he took office.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think they're giving in to him. I don't think
they're warring to him. I don't think they like him.
I think most European leaders don't have a spine. They're
they're very brave when they're on their own and when
they speak to the news beating and when they leak.
But when you have a strong American president, none of
them know what to do. And that's why you keep
seeing these European leaders coming to the White House trying
(08:13):
to brown those and to get on Trump's good side.
You know the kind of leaders we saw World War two,
Winston Churchill. There's no Winston Churchill in Europe right now.
Certainly we don't have one in the UK, or in
France or in Germany. They are liberal globalists. They're trying
to deal with Trump. They're not sure how to do that,
but frankly they're afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I've got to take a quick commercial break.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
More Fred on the other side, Well, it's pretty remarkable
the amount of peace agreements and ceasefires that President Trump
has been able to negotiate with. I think Cambodio. Cambodia
submitted a Nobel Peace Prize for President Trump with the
with Cambodia and Thailand, and then you've got Rwanda and Congo,
(08:57):
you know, I mean the list goes on. And then
during the first administry you had the Abraham Accords. Why
do you think he's able to reach these peace deals
more broadly, I guess we'll call them when other presidents
were unable to do so.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
A strong American president, a decisive one, is essential not
just for American security but for global security. And I
also think success breeds success, and these nations are turning
to Trump to resolve these crisis. You know that Cambodia
Thailand one is interesting because you know, in an earlier
(09:32):
era they may have went to China to resolve that,
but they didn't. They went to Trump. I think that's
very interesting. And this Azerbarijehan our media dispute. This is
something that before the war Ukraine Russia would adjudicated, but
in this instance, Trump adjudicated a peace settlement in Putin's backyard.
I think the idea that we have a decisive and
(09:53):
strong American president is good for global order. It's leading
states to come to him to make deals, and it's
always good for our country too.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What's interesting too if you just kind of like watching
his moves as as you have been doing, of just.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Sort of setting up American strength.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Like going to the Middle East and striking those deals
and talking about how like the future of the Middle
East is commerce not chaos. And and then even with
this EU deal, the seven hundred and fifty billion dollars
in energy purchased from the United States, trying to get
Europe to turn to us and to be dependent on
our oil as opposed to Russia. But just sort of
(10:33):
like these different moves to just try to like weaken China,
to weaken Russia, and to put America back as you know,
the world's leading superpower kind of walk us down some
of the or walk us through some of those steps
that you have seen in his efforts to try to
you know, isolate some of our enemies like China and
(10:53):
Russia and Oran and to strengthen the United States positioning power.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I would point to this critical that Trump made in
Saudi Arabia that you were referring to, in which he
said he wants peace through strength and commerce. Make it
deal with us and we'll all be rich. We're all
good rich. But he also said he does not want
America to have permanent enemies. He does not want to
engage in nation building or meddling in other systems. That
(11:21):
will respect other systems that we disagree with, that we
will not try to foice our system our values on
other societies. This is huge. It is a real repudiation
of John Bolton and George W. Bush and tons of
Democratic presidents who thought we should be deploying you as
troops to promote democratization and regime change. Trump moved away
(11:45):
from that, and that means he may be able to
make deals with nations who before would not even meet
with us. That's why I think we could make a
deal with Iron, we may be able to deal with China.
That's why other nations I think are saying, we think
Trump's going to be a fair inner. Let's see if
he can resolve our dispute.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Do you think the toughest nut for him to crack
is probably with Russia and Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I do because this conflict is in such a it
has deteriorated so badly, and it was made so much
worse by the incompetent Biden administration and Europeans strategy. Remember,
Biden's strategy for Ukraine was to arm Ukraine for as
long as it takes. He had no plan to end
the war. He never called for talks to end it,
(12:30):
he never called for a ceasefire. There was basically no strategy.
We're just going to dump weapons on Ukraine for the
rest of time, which, as you and I know, the
Republican of Congress, the House at least, was not going
to approve this much longer. So this was a strategy
that was not going to work. But Biden didn't try
anything else, and neither did the Europeans that caused this
dispute to get worse and worse and worse. So look,
(12:53):
Trump has sold his whole national security team on the
field working on this. And you know, Frankly Putin disrespected
Trump by not dealing with him earlier in good faith,
by ignoring these efforts by his staff. That's why Trump
proposed these very tough sanctions to send weapons to Ukraine
(13:15):
through NATO. That I think that's how we got to
the Alaska summit. But it is a difficult not to crack.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And we've seen his posture with Putin, you know, tough enough.
I mean, he's always been tough on him, like even
if you look at the first administration, I mean, he's
never been afraid to you know, hold Putin's feet to
the fire and to stand up to him. But it
does seem like the posture has changed a little bit
where you know, before he was kind of like maybe
a little bit more open to stuff, and then now
(13:41):
he's kind of brought the hammer down a little bit,
it would seem do.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You agree with that? And then also why do you
think that is what's behind that?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Well, previously Trump tried to deal with Putin cordially as
a fellow head of state, and that's what he was
trying to work on through his diplomats, especially with cough.
But when and then there were a lot of phone
calls between Putin and Trump, but Putin basically was pushing
pushing Trump down the road. I forget the term the
(14:12):
Trump used and accelerating the war, despite Trump's Trump's efforts
to end it. So Trump surprised everyone by changing tactics
when he started criticizing Putin, announced that he would send
weapons to Ukraine through NATO and announce he would put
these tough energy sanctions in place. No one would have
predicted that a few months ago. Everyone thought that Trump
(14:32):
was only going to engage in diplomacy with Putin, he
wasn't going to start these efforts to punish Russia. But
I think that, Look, this is the mark of a
good leader. When your policies aren't working, you have to
change those policies. You have to be flexible. And I
think Trump showed that with Putin, and frankly he showed
it with Iran when he surprised everyone when he bombed
(14:53):
these Iranian nuclear sites, something that I don't think anyone
thought Trump would ever do.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, that's like, I mean, how how much do you
think he because you've worked for President Trump, you were
a former National Security Accouncil Chief of staff under him,
how much of his decisions like he just seems like
he has really incredible instincts when it.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Comes to all of this stuff. How much of.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
These decisions is like listening to the people around him,
like sort of giving advice versus him just saying you
know what, No, it's time to bomb around, like we
need to send this message. This is what's going to
get us closer to peace than you know, sanctions or
any sort of other kind of diplomacy.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Lisa, he listens and talks to all kinds of people.
I'm sure he listens to you. I'm sure he watches
you very very close to when you're on TV couple.
I mean, he watches Fox, so I know he's I'm
I'm joking listening to you, and and and people don't
realize he's also a voracious reader, and he reads mature
from lots of people. He reads some of the stuff
(15:56):
that I write, and he uses his material to make
up his mind. There's certain advisors who he trusts more
than others that gives some key advice. And I also
know that when he gets advice and recommendations, he disagrees
with it. They'll say to people, I think you're wrong,
and I'm not going to go that way.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I mean, I think he's brilliant. But even like you know,
for instance, you were talking about the Saudi Arabia speech
for the future of the Middle East, is commerce not
chaos or even with the minerals deal in Ukraine, like
he ties foreign policy to economic deals. And you know,
because you could kind of see his line of thinking
with Zelenski feeling like he wasn't getting security guarantees. But
(16:35):
from President Trump's perspective, it's like US being involved in
business in Ukraine and mineral mining, like that is a
security guarantee.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, that's what the Trump administration has been arguing. But
I think this is even more important for Putin. I
don't think Putin's just going to make compromises to end
the war without some type of incentive. But the idea
that Russia could become more prosperous with deals through the
US and there may be new Russia America partnerships to
(17:07):
deal with global problems to make Russia great power again.
I think that really appeals to Putin. And you know,
the optics of Putin riding in the limo, which Trump
calls the beast in Alaska. You know, the media laughed
at that, but that was an important symbol of how
Trump is trying to bring Putin back as someone who's
(17:28):
at least friendly to the US right now. Frankly, Russia
is an enemy and this really is a dangerous situation.
Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on earth. That's a
bigger threat to us than Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Ever, will be got to take a quick commercial break.
If you like what you're.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Hearing, please share on social media or maybe send it
to some friends. What also just seems like President Trump
sees things more clear eyed than you know, past presidents
and also just has like, I mean, he's really great
political instincts in terms of obviously you know, the Ronald's
thing or the you know, getting dressed up for a
(18:02):
trash truck and Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You know, like he just but he's great.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Political instincts are great, you know, foreign policy instincts as well.
It would seem like I remember during the first administration,
the summit with North Korea, and there was like this
video I don't know if you remember this, the video
that he showed Kim Joe Noon, and it was like,
you know what, it was like, you have two paths,
right Like It's like you could peace and prosperity, and
it's like everyone like loving life and making money and
(18:29):
you know, and then the next is like bombs and
like we're going to crush you, you know, and it's
like it's just but I just like he's smart and
sort of knowing understanding, and I don't know if it's
all just the years of business, right, but he just
seems to be able to understand different world leaders and
like what it takes to move the needle with each one,
and is that what do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I think that's right. And he doesn't care about the
conventional wisdom on how to do things as the usual
way of doing things. Basically all the foreign policy experts
thought me and Kim Jong was in a mistake rewarding
the North Korean dictated with the presidential summit, but that
meeting stopped North Korean missile tests for eighteen months. They
didn't test any long range missiles until after the disastrous
(19:12):
US withdrawal from Afghanistan. There hasn't been a nuclear test
September twenty seventeen, and I think that's because of Trump.
I think the North Koreans thought about it during the
by and years. I think they came close, but I
think that suspension in those tests, which is crucial to
slowing North Korea's nuclear program. They have to test to
prove that their weapons work was important. So I mean,
(19:33):
this is a this is a businessman who looks at
all the options, doesn't let people talk them out of
things that haven't been tried before, and is willing to
try new things when what we've done in the past
didn't work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
No, I thought that was brilliant. You're right, because I
remember after the summit.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Like it seemed like, you know, because there was all
the you know, rocketman and sort of like this heightened
escalation between the two countries, and then after that kind
of seems like we stopped hearing about you know, North Korea,
and you know, stopped kind of hearing the threads.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So before we go, what do you think what is achievable?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I guess in trying to bring either ceasefire or some
sort of peace agreement or like whatever it's called, whatever
it looks like, what do you think is actually achievable
between that the two leaders of you know, Putin of
Russia and Ukraine can go back home and sell it
to their people that Trump's going to be happy with.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Like, what is actually achievable here?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Well, there's a lot of unknown despite all these leaks,
and I think, as I said, earlier. You may go
into negotiations with one opening position that may not be
where you end up. So whatever is being leaked at
bet where Putin is, we really don't know where he is,
where he'll end up. But I suspect it may come
down to Ukraine agreeing to some type of a land
(20:56):
swamp in exchange for a security gam tea arrangement with
the Europeans. Getting Russia to agree to that would be
a huge breakthrough, which no one talked about before Alaska.
That's actually on the table. Uh. We could have the
makings of a pretty substantial agreement to end this war.
But I whether we're going to get putin air, whether
(21:18):
he'll really agree to that, I think that's going to
be hard, but it's it's the it's those are the
kind of proposals that I think could lead to an
agreement both sides could live.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
With bred flates.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm not feeling so great, so I'm a little out
of it, But thank god, you're not You're you're you're
feel gray in your sharp Thanks for carrying the conversation today.
I really appreciate you making the time and interesting stuff,
and you know, well, hopefully something's reached because it's just
it's it's better for for us, it's better for them,
and it's just it's better for you know, global peace
(21:52):
and security. So and if anyone's going to do it,
it's it's President Trump. So appreciate you making the time
my friend.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Good feel better.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thanks, take care those Fred Flit's Feie share of the
America First Policy Institute Center for American Security. We appreciate
him for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at
home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You can listen throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting
the show together.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Until next time.
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we try
to get to the heart of the issues that matter
to you. Today we're talking all things foreign policy and
trying to achieve peace throughout the world.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Roner to have Fred.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Flights, vice chair of the America First Policy Institute, Center
for American Security and former chief of Staff at the
National Security Council under President Trump, someone who understands President
Trump's line of thinking when it comes to foreign policy.
So we're going to discuss that pivotal Trump putin meeting
in Alaska. What does it mean, What are the implications
for trying to resolve the Ukraine conflict. We also talk
(00:35):
about the broader strategic dynamics shaping US foreign policy. Why
has President Trump been able to broker so many peace deals,
what makes them so different than past presidents. We're going
to dig into someone who knows, understands the man and
also understands the foreign policy implications of all of this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So stay tuned for Fred Flights. Fred, it's great to
have you on this show.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's been a while since we've caught up, so I
appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Making the time good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So looking at this summit in Alaska. I guess sort of,
are you what's your broad takeaway? It's it's you know,
it's been criticized by the media, but obviously that doesn't
always mean much because they don't get anything correct.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
But what are your takeaways from it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, well, you know, President Trump is just so frustrated
with the mainstream media. He tweeted a little while ago
that if Russia had surrendered the whole country to Ukraine,
they still claim this was a failure for Trump. And
I think that that's exactly right. Whatever Trump does, they're against.
And you know, Europe loves to complain and criticize Trump
(01:43):
for what he's doing, but there's no alternative. The only
reason is a peace plan or peace process is because
of Trump. Europeans didn't do this before he was elected.
What happened in Alaska was that Trump went to Putin
and he determined that he had enough progress to go
to the next age. And we know from history that
peacemaking is hard and coming up with agreements to stop
(02:06):
wars usually takes painstaking negotiations. So there were some things
agreed to, some weren't agreed to. Some were sensitive issues
that Trump has to talk to the Europeans and Zelensky
about and the fact that there's a second stage that
Trump's going to meeting was Lensky and the Europeans today,
I think is very promising. The most important thing out
of the summit was talked that there may be an
(02:28):
agreement of security assurances that Russia may agree to that
something that the Europeans in the US might do to
prevent Russia from evading again. If that's true, it could
be a change to the whole scenario that might mean
a long lasting peace agreement.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Do you think it was a positive meeting?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Trump says it was a positive meeting. It was a
ten out of ten, and I think looking at what happened,
it was probably the best we could get out of Putin.
It's worth noting that our relations with Russia was very
bad under Biden. Remember Biden didn't speak to Putin after
February twenty twenty two. He did nothing but demonize him.
Biden once compared Putin du Amas and this is some
(03:11):
of the baggage that Trump had overcome to get a
peace process started. So I think it was as positive
as possible. There's a long way to go, but I
think if Trump determined that Putin wasn't interested in negotiating
good faith to end the war, he would have walked away.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, and he said that, you know, I remember
in his interview with Brett Baer, he was saying that,
if you know, if he's unhappy at any point, or
he feels like Putin's kind of give him the run around,
that he's out, he's willing to walk.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And I believe that. I also just think it's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Look, President Trump is indicated or demonstrated even during his
first arm he's always willing to talk, He's always willing
to negotiate. And Putin, you know, obviously chose to do
this under Biden. He wouldn't have done it under Trump.
What do you think Putin wants from all this?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, first of all, to that point, you know, people
were saying this is a big win for Putin because
he got a meeting with Trump. That's just wrong. American
and Russian presidents should be meeting and talking all the time.
The fact that Biden didn't do this made the world
less safe. And as you said, Trump wants to speak
to Putin, he wants to speak to i Ron's leaders,
to China's leaders. That's good statesmanship that keeps the world
(04:23):
more stable and secure. So whether there's a meeting, one
succeeded or failed, I think Trump accomplished something. I think
Putin is looking for a way out of the war.
He would take as much Ukrainian territory as you can
get away with, but he wants to avoid punishing sanctions
from the United States. And I'm hoping he sees Trump
(04:46):
as his one opportunity to end Russia's isolation and maybe
strike deals. It would make Russia more prosperous.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And Zelensi probably just wants Russia out of all of
its territory. They want like a complete withdrawal.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, Zelenski wants that. He wants native membership, he wants
a U membership, and I wish you could get these things,
but they're not going to happen, and I think that
Zelensky has to focus on what's possible. I understand this
is really hard. He's going to lose part of his country,
but he can't be blaming Trump for this. There was
a time in twenty twenty two, in mid to the
(05:25):
fall twenty twenty two that if Biden and European leaders
had sent Ukraine the weapons they needed, they could have
pushed the Russians back. They didn't do that. Now the
Russians are dug in and they're advancing. Ukraine's running out
of troops. Ukraine has to strike the best deal it
can to save his country and to stop the killing.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I guess the challenge is, you know, we saw recently
in the Oval Office that spat between Zelenski and President
Trump and JD.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Vans and then you know, Zelenski is essentially it kicked.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Out of my house, you know, like and you know
this is very public spat. Uh. I mean, I mean,
I think the challenge to me seems to like, can
Zelensky look at this in a clear eyed way. He
just seems like he's very emotionally charged in the way
he conducts business, which is challenging when you're trying to
(06:15):
get someone to reason with someone and to get them
to see things because you know, ultimately, as you pointed out,
Zelensky is probably gonna have to give up some of Ukraine,
but it just doesn't you know, it seems like he
sort of behaves a little bit belligerently.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Is that a fair assessment or how much of a challenge.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Do you think Zelensky is going to be and trying
to get him on the board with any sort of
peace agreement.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I don't think we're going to see the same blow
up in the Oval office that we saw last time.
But let's talk about what happened there. Zelensky was arguing
with Trump before the meeting. During the meeting, he was
rolling his eyes, acting very disrespectful for Trump. But what
people don't realize is that Zelensky was told to resist,
not just by the Europeans but by Democratic members of Congress.
(06:59):
Zelensky was given bad advice, and I think he paid
a price for that. It's set back peace efforts. I
think he's learned since then not to mess with Trump
and not to listen to people who have their own agendas.
I mean, the Democrats just want Trump to fail, and
their media was Zelensky all the time. They're they're they're
telling them all kinds of stuff that's not going to
end the war. I think Lynski realizes Trump's the only
(07:22):
one who can end this war. He may not like that,
but he has to deal with Trump.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Is it fair to say the Europeans are sort of
warming to President Trump? Or sort of like listening to him,
you know, the NATO chief. I think it was like
a month ago, call him daddy, like you like try
to like lay on the charm. Is it fair to
say that, you know, Europeans are kind of uh, I
guess looking up to him more at.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
This point than maybe right when he took office.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think they're giving in to him. I don't think
they're warring to him. I don't think they like him.
I think most European leaders don't have a spine. They're
they're very brave when they're on their own and when
they speak to the news beating and when they leak.
But when you have a strong American president, none of
them know what to do. And that's why you keep
seeing these European leaders coming to the White House trying
(08:13):
to brown those and to get on Trump's good side.
You know the kind of leaders we saw World War two,
Winston Churchill. There's no Winston Churchill in Europe right now.
Certainly we don't have one in the UK, or in
France or in Germany. They are liberal globalists. They're trying
to deal with Trump. They're not sure how to do that,
but frankly they're afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I've got to take a quick commercial break.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
More Fred on the other side, Well, it's pretty remarkable
the amount of peace agreements and ceasefires that President Trump
has been able to negotiate with. I think Cambodio. Cambodia
submitted a Nobel Peace Prize for President Trump with the
with Cambodia and Thailand, and then you've got Rwanda and Congo,
(08:57):
you know, I mean the list goes on. And then
during the first administry you had the Abraham Accords. Why
do you think he's able to reach these peace deals
more broadly, I guess we'll call them when other presidents
were unable to do so.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
A strong American president, a decisive one, is essential not
just for American security but for global security. And I
also think success breeds success, and these nations are turning
to Trump to resolve these crisis. You know that Cambodia
Thailand one is interesting because you know, in an earlier
(09:32):
era they may have went to China to resolve that,
but they didn't. They went to Trump. I think that's
very interesting. And this Azerbarijehan our media dispute. This is
something that before the war Ukraine Russia would adjudicated, but
in this instance, Trump adjudicated a peace settlement in Putin's backyard.
I think the idea that we have a decisive and
(09:53):
strong American president is good for global order. It's leading
states to come to him to make deals, and it's
always good for our country too.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What's interesting too if you just kind of like watching
his moves as as you have been doing, of just.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Sort of setting up American strength.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Like going to the Middle East and striking those deals
and talking about how like the future of the Middle
East is commerce not chaos. And and then even with
this EU deal, the seven hundred and fifty billion dollars
in energy purchased from the United States, trying to get
Europe to turn to us and to be dependent on
our oil as opposed to Russia. But just sort of
(10:33):
like these different moves to just try to like weaken China,
to weaken Russia, and to put America back as you know,
the world's leading superpower kind of walk us down some
of the or walk us through some of those steps
that you have seen in his efforts to try to
you know, isolate some of our enemies like China and
(10:53):
Russia and Oran and to strengthen the United States positioning power.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I would point to this critical that Trump made in
Saudi Arabia that you were referring to, in which he
said he wants peace through strength and commerce. Make it
deal with us and we'll all be rich. We're all
good rich. But he also said he does not want
America to have permanent enemies. He does not want to
engage in nation building or meddling in other systems. That
(11:21):
will respect other systems that we disagree with, that we
will not try to foice our system our values on
other societies. This is huge. It is a real repudiation
of John Bolton and George W. Bush and tons of
Democratic presidents who thought we should be deploying you as
troops to promote democratization and regime change. Trump moved away
(11:45):
from that, and that means he may be able to
make deals with nations who before would not even meet
with us. That's why I think we could make a
deal with Iron, we may be able to deal with China.
That's why other nations I think are saying, we think
Trump's going to be a fair inner. Let's see if
he can resolve our dispute.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Do you think the toughest nut for him to crack
is probably with Russia and Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I do because this conflict is in such a it
has deteriorated so badly, and it was made so much
worse by the incompetent Biden administration and Europeans strategy. Remember,
Biden's strategy for Ukraine was to arm Ukraine for as
long as it takes. He had no plan to end
the war. He never called for talks to end it,
(12:30):
he never called for a ceasefire. There was basically no strategy.
We're just going to dump weapons on Ukraine for the
rest of time, which, as you and I know, the
Republican of Congress, the House at least, was not going
to approve this much longer. So this was a strategy
that was not going to work. But Biden didn't try
anything else, and neither did the Europeans that caused this
dispute to get worse and worse and worse. So look,
(12:53):
Trump has sold his whole national security team on the
field working on this. And you know, Frankly Putin disrespected
Trump by not dealing with him earlier in good faith,
by ignoring these efforts by his staff. That's why Trump
proposed these very tough sanctions to send weapons to Ukraine
(13:15):
through NATO. That I think that's how we got to
the Alaska summit. But it is a difficult not to crack.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And we've seen his posture with Putin, you know, tough enough.
I mean, he's always been tough on him, like even
if you look at the first administration, I mean, he's
never been afraid to you know, hold Putin's feet to
the fire and to stand up to him. But it
does seem like the posture has changed a little bit
where you know, before he was kind of like maybe
a little bit more open to stuff, and then now
(13:41):
he's kind of brought the hammer down a little bit,
it would seem do.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You agree with that? And then also why do you
think that is what's behind that?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Well, previously Trump tried to deal with Putin cordially as
a fellow head of state, and that's what he was
trying to work on through his diplomats, especially with cough.
But when and then there were a lot of phone
calls between Putin and Trump, but Putin basically was pushing
pushing Trump down the road. I forget the term the
(14:12):
Trump used and accelerating the war, despite Trump's Trump's efforts
to end it. So Trump surprised everyone by changing tactics
when he started criticizing Putin, announced that he would send
weapons to Ukraine through NATO and announce he would put
these tough energy sanctions in place. No one would have
predicted that a few months ago. Everyone thought that Trump
(14:32):
was only going to engage in diplomacy with Putin, he
wasn't going to start these efforts to punish Russia. But
I think that, Look, this is the mark of a
good leader. When your policies aren't working, you have to
change those policies. You have to be flexible. And I
think Trump showed that with Putin, and frankly he showed
it with Iran when he surprised everyone when he bombed
(14:53):
these Iranian nuclear sites, something that I don't think anyone
thought Trump would ever do.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, that's like, I mean, how how much do you
think he because you've worked for President Trump, you were
a former National Security Accouncil Chief of staff under him,
how much of his decisions like he just seems like
he has really incredible instincts when it.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Comes to all of this stuff. How much of.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
These decisions is like listening to the people around him,
like sort of giving advice versus him just saying you
know what, No, it's time to bomb around, like we
need to send this message. This is what's going to
get us closer to peace than you know, sanctions or
any sort of other kind of diplomacy.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Lisa, he listens and talks to all kinds of people.
I'm sure he listens to you. I'm sure he watches
you very very close to when you're on TV couple.
I mean, he watches Fox, so I know he's I'm
I'm joking listening to you, and and and people don't
realize he's also a voracious reader, and he reads mature
from lots of people. He reads some of the stuff
(15:56):
that I write, and he uses his material to make
up his mind. There's certain advisors who he trusts more
than others that gives some key advice. And I also
know that when he gets advice and recommendations, he disagrees
with it. They'll say to people, I think you're wrong,
and I'm not going to go that way.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I mean, I think he's brilliant. But even like you know,
for instance, you were talking about the Saudi Arabia speech
for the future of the Middle East, is commerce not
chaos or even with the minerals deal in Ukraine, like
he ties foreign policy to economic deals. And you know,
because you could kind of see his line of thinking
with Zelenski feeling like he wasn't getting security guarantees. But
(16:35):
from President Trump's perspective, it's like US being involved in
business in Ukraine and mineral mining, like that is a
security guarantee.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, that's what the Trump administration has been arguing. But
I think this is even more important for Putin. I
don't think Putin's just going to make compromises to end
the war without some type of incentive. But the idea
that Russia could become more prosperous with deals through the
US and there may be new Russia America partnerships to
(17:07):
deal with global problems to make Russia great power again.
I think that really appeals to Putin. And you know,
the optics of Putin riding in the limo, which Trump
calls the beast in Alaska. You know, the media laughed
at that, but that was an important symbol of how
Trump is trying to bring Putin back as someone who's
(17:28):
at least friendly to the US right now. Frankly, Russia
is an enemy and this really is a dangerous situation.
Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on earth. That's a
bigger threat to us than Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Ever, will be got to take a quick commercial break.
If you like what you're.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Hearing, please share on social media or maybe send it
to some friends. What also just seems like President Trump
sees things more clear eyed than you know, past presidents
and also just has like, I mean, he's really great
political instincts in terms of obviously you know, the Ronald's
thing or the you know, getting dressed up for a
(18:02):
trash truck and Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You know, like he just but he's great.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Political instincts are great, you know, foreign policy instincts as well.
It would seem like I remember during the first administration,
the summit with North Korea, and there was like this
video I don't know if you remember this, the video
that he showed Kim Joe Noon, and it was like,
you know what, it was like, you have two paths,
right Like It's like you could peace and prosperity, and
it's like everyone like loving life and making money and
(18:29):
you know, and then the next is like bombs and
like we're going to crush you, you know, and it's
like it's just but I just like he's smart and
sort of knowing understanding, and I don't know if it's
all just the years of business, right, but he just
seems to be able to understand different world leaders and
like what it takes to move the needle with each one,
and is that what do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I think that's right. And he doesn't care about the
conventional wisdom on how to do things as the usual
way of doing things. Basically all the foreign policy experts
thought me and Kim Jong was in a mistake rewarding
the North Korean dictated with the presidential summit, but that
meeting stopped North Korean missile tests for eighteen months. They
didn't test any long range missiles until after the disastrous
(19:12):
US withdrawal from Afghanistan. There hasn't been a nuclear test
September twenty seventeen, and I think that's because of Trump.
I think the North Koreans thought about it during the
by and years. I think they came close, but I
think that suspension in those tests, which is crucial to
slowing North Korea's nuclear program. They have to test to
prove that their weapons work was important. So I mean,
(19:33):
this is a this is a businessman who looks at
all the options, doesn't let people talk them out of
things that haven't been tried before, and is willing to
try new things when what we've done in the past
didn't work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
No, I thought that was brilliant. You're right, because I
remember after the summit.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Like it seemed like, you know, because there was all
the you know, rocketman and sort of like this heightened
escalation between the two countries, and then after that kind
of seems like we stopped hearing about you know, North Korea,
and you know, stopped kind of hearing the threads.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So before we go, what do you think what is achievable?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I guess in trying to bring either ceasefire or some
sort of peace agreement or like whatever it's called, whatever
it looks like, what do you think is actually achievable
between that the two leaders of you know, Putin of
Russia and Ukraine can go back home and sell it
to their people that Trump's going to be happy with.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Like, what is actually achievable here?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Well, there's a lot of unknown despite all these leaks,
and I think, as I said, earlier. You may go
into negotiations with one opening position that may not be
where you end up. So whatever is being leaked at
bet where Putin is, we really don't know where he is,
where he'll end up. But I suspect it may come
down to Ukraine agreeing to some type of a land
(20:56):
swamp in exchange for a security gam tea arrangement with
the Europeans. Getting Russia to agree to that would be
a huge breakthrough, which no one talked about before Alaska.
That's actually on the table. Uh. We could have the
makings of a pretty substantial agreement to end this war.
But I whether we're going to get putin air, whether
(21:18):
he'll really agree to that, I think that's going to
be hard, but it's it's the it's those are the
kind of proposals that I think could lead to an
agreement both sides could live.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
With bred flates.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm not feeling so great, so I'm a little out
of it, But thank god, you're not You're you're you're
feel gray in your sharp Thanks for carrying the conversation today.
I really appreciate you making the time and interesting stuff,
and you know, well, hopefully something's reached because it's just
it's it's better for for us, it's better for them,
and it's just it's better for you know, global peace
(21:52):
and security. So and if anyone's going to do it,
it's it's President Trump. So appreciate you making the time
my friend.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Good feel better.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thanks, take care those Fred Flit's Feie share of the
America First Policy Institute Center for American Security. We appreciate
him for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at
home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You can listen throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting
the show together.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Until next time.
Host
Lisa Boothe
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