April 10, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode, Lisa Boothe interviews financial expert Charles Payne, host of "Making Money with Charles Payne" on Fox Business. They discuss the current economic climate, market reactions, and President Trump's tariff strategy. Payne explains the difference between "soft" and "hard" economic data and criticizes media negativity. They explore the challenges of U.S. manufacturing and the importance of clear messaging from the Trump administration. Payne also provides historical context on trade relations, advises investors to focus on long-term strategies, and shares his personal journey from Wall Street to television. The Truth with Lisa Boothe is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
We are going to continue to try to make sense
of the economy right now, of the markets in the
midst of a lot of chaos, a lot of noise
in the media, a lot of noise from naysayers as
well as always on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're just going to try to get you the truth.
That's what we do here On the Truth with Lisa Booth.
So today we'll have someone on.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Who I trust, who I turn to for advice, who
when I see him on TV I stop to listen.
His name is Charles Pain. You know him as the
host of Making Money with Charles Pain on Fox Business.
But besides that, he doesn't just play a financial expert
on TV. He's a veteran in the industry. He started
his time on Wall Street in nineteen eighty five. In
nineteen eighty one, he started Wall Street Strategy as a
(00:44):
stock market research firm. So this is the guy who eats, sleeps,
and breathes this stuff for a living.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
He brings a wealth of insight to the table.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So we're going to dive in to get his take.
Dive in on President Trump's tariff strategy, it's impact on
the markets and the economy, and what it means for
investors in both the short term and the long term.
I mean, most importantly, I'm gonna ask him what should
you do? What should we all do right now as
the markets continue to move and to shake. Plus, we'll
(01:17):
explore his journey to television and also his latest book,
Unbreakable Investor. I've always wondered how did he jump from
Wall Street to television, So we'll dig into all that
with my friend and colleague Charles Pain.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, Charles Pain, it's an honor to have you on
this show. Obviously, there's a lot of chaos.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Going on right now, and I always stop and listen
to you when you are on TV because you are calm,
You're measured, and we need that and we need your
wisdom right now. So it's an honor to have you on.
I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Thank you, Lisa. You know you've always been one of
my favorites.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, I feel the same about you, and you're so
smart and like you don't I don't think i've ever
seen you don't freak out, which is probably why you've
been so successful in all this. But also what we
need in this current environment, I guess like, Okay, so
sort of just big picture. Could you sort of give
us some perspective. What do you see right now when
(02:19):
you're looking at the markets and you're looking at the
economy right now.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
And it's interesting because there are two separate things right now.
You know, in Wall Street, there's there's these things that
call soft data, mostly surveys, and then things called hard
data like corporate earnings reports and things like that. And
so what's really amazing to me is this this phenomenon
that we're living through right now. We've never seen anything
(02:44):
like this. It's the amount of negative news stories that
have been put out there. It supersedes nine to eleven,
supersedes the global financial crisis, supersedes all kinds of all
kinds of really much more serious issues struck global financial issues.
And so we've been set up, the market has been
(03:05):
set up sort of to be on this nervous perch
because Lisa, we have a correction when the market pulls
back ten percent on average every year in the last
one hundred years, We've had one hundred and five of
them something like that. We have corrections when the market
pulls back twenty percent almost every four to five years,
five to six years in that area. So all this stuff.
Typically coming into the year, people would have said, we're
(03:27):
kind of due for these pullbacks or corrections, but they
have fanned of flames of fear and really, listen, be honest,
it's all about anti Trump media agenda. So that's the backdrop.
Everyone's nervous, everyone's more afraid than normal, and that means overreactions,
and it's been mostly overreactions to soft data. We got
(03:50):
the job support came in better than expected. It doesn't matter.
The next one is going to be bad. This morning
we got Delta Airlines great earning support. Don't worry, they're
afraid to give us. Guy, it's going to be bad
in the future. So this is what we're dealing with.
And unfortunately, when you get these things, they become sort
of a snowball, and they can become a boulder salt.
Data can become hard data when everyone gets afraid to
(04:12):
become self fulfilling. And so yet I freak out over
the way this thing has been messaged, but I know
it's been deliberate. And what I don't like, Lisa, is
that I think people who sell in a panic, particularly
taking losses, I think they've been regretted a year from now,
three years from now, five years from now, and so
I'm really spended by the coverage. Listen, obviously you want
(04:33):
to talk about risk anytime someone wants to do what
President Trump is talking about, which is sort of up
ending a system that's been in place for a while.
But while it's been in place, we have our foundation
beneath us has been eroding, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And that's the thing is right, like we're saying, which
is why.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I wanted to have you on the show, and which
is why you're so good at this is being able
to kind of like look deeper into everything and really
you know, to try to get an honest assessment of
what's really going on right now.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And so with all that, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's hard for people like me who don't do this
for a living of trying to figure out like how
bad are things right now? How manufactured is it? You know,
and so how how bad You don't give us some perspective,
how bad are things are?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
They bad? I know, you kind of got into the
soft data and the hard data.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's the irony. That's the irony. They're not bad yet, right,
So the market is building in a worst case scenario
and this is why it's again it's frustrating because sometimes
the markets can can create a worst case scenario. Give
you an example, coming into the year. For the last
couple of years, the top ten percent of Americans have
(05:44):
been doing fifty percent of the shopping because most families
are in their own personal recessions already. That's why we
got the election outcome that we got. But as the
market pulls back those top ten people a percentage rather
even though they're well off, they're going to pull back
their spending and so you may see you know, more
recessinary science and future data. Again that's manufactured by the
(06:06):
fact that they didn't run out of money, it's just
that they're becoming antsy. So this antsiness can create a problem.
But if you say, at this very moment, what data
can I point to this as the economy is a
bad shape. None, I can point to a lot of
data that can show that, you know, we were weakening,
that people have spent maxed out their credit cards and
things like that. But as Americans, we live with maxed
(06:28):
out credit cards, right, Some people do that for the
entire lives. And that's the frustrating part. That's the guessing part. Unfortunately,
the markets are are right now reacting negative, negatively to anything.
And there's an old saying on Wall Street selling the
gas selling, it's sort of sometimes you sell because the
person next to you sold, and then the person next
to you was sell. It's it's it's it's the same
(06:50):
thing on the upside. But you've seen markets where they
just go up and go up and go up, and
people chase them because, you know what, they think they're
going to keep going up. So this is an irrational
emotional period for the market where we don't have all
the answers and the default is to sell first, ask
questions later, or get answers later.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I think the issue, you know, So okay, so
I see what President Trump is trying to do in
the long term in bringing manufacturing here to the United States,
trying to make us more self reliant, self sufficient.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But the issue is time on a lot of these things,
right like even you know, I mean, you know, this
will probably be less complicated than even looking at bilateral
free trade agreements, but you know those can average around
one point five years to develop through period of time
even manufacturing plants getting them running, even if you retrofit.
It takes time, you know, so we don't have as
(07:45):
much time, especially Republicans looking ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
At the midterms.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
You know, he did promise this golden age in his term,
so can can he bake some of these long term
changes without sacrificing sort of this this short term, this
four year period of golden age?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You know. I mean, listen, if you were to build
the world's most magnificent skyscraper, first should have to dig
a big hole for the foundation. You know, it's it's
it's I think that what they have to do. And again,
this is where it's interesting to study William McKinley's presidency.
So I think they just have to get the ball rolling.
Uh uh. You know, we don't have to change have
(08:24):
change the entire thing overnight. It's sort of unrealistic to
think all these factories will be built in the next
two to four years. But we can see the permitting,
We could see some of the cranes put in place
right now. We've been you know, America's worst problem right
now is that we can't we don't we can't accept
any pain whatsoever. If it's emotional pain, you can you know,
(08:47):
go online or get an app. You know, listen to
ocean music. If it's physical pain, you could pop a
pill or smoke something. We don't. We don't even understand
the notion, not even to lose weight anymore. Right, you
don't have to go to the gym. A duke crunches.
So we don't even understand that issue. And it's really
going to hurt us longer term because they're going to
be something other things like you know, when it comes
to military uh uh and Taiwan eventually having to protect them.
(09:11):
You know, I don't think we'll be able to be
up to snuff to do it. But so messaging is
important for Trump and a Trump administration. And but when
people tell me we can't build a factory over nine ID,
I know we can't. That's not the point. The point
is China. Look up, Look up Google, if you get
a chance, new cities in China. They're building cities. They
(09:31):
they're completing the tallest bridge in the world. That just
the things that're going so magnificent. The only thing that
we build that's magnificent right now our football stadiums. We
build great football stadiums, right, but those aren't We're not
We're not investing in our children's futures. We're not investing
in our own futures. Since two thousand and nine, our
(09:53):
country made a decided shift. We're going to become in
this nation. It's called financialization, and everything was going to
be about money, making more money, all these new fangled
products from Wall Street. And that's essentially what we've done.
We've created four economic classes, the educated elite. The next
class are the barista class that served them. We have
(10:14):
a service economy all while we got a few blue
collar jobs left. And then after that, I call it
the play catered poor. They get enough government assistance that
they don't rebel against the system. That's unsustainable. What we're
talking about, there's unsustainable. That's how great empires in the
past have fallen down right in part so I get frustrated.
(10:35):
Someone said, we can't build a factory of a night. No,
we can't, but we can. We can put a stake
in the ground tomorrow. We can do the groundbreaking tomorrow.
We can we can sign off on all the regulations.
In fact, we need to get rid of all these regulations,
these barriers. Right. We can do those sort of things
and get the ball rolling. I think if Republicans can
show that the ball is rolling, that that's what they
(10:55):
need to do. You know, maybe by the midterms. It
certainly of the four years, and we'll have some actories
built again. We built some hellified football stadiums in less
than four years.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You know, why do you think President Trump is doing this?
You know, what do you think is overall objective?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Is?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
How do you see it?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well? I do a special report once a week. I
do I write every single day for my clients, but
I do one a weekly called Pain's Perspective. It is
usually twenty pages long. And this one I featured in
a one ad that Trump had taken out in the
New York Times in nineteen eighty seven that said, talked
about our defensive our defense preparedness, and he said, the
(11:35):
only reason we haven't done it as a nation is
we don't have the backbone. I mean, think about our
conversation already. We immediately talk about how Republicans can get
re elected. Well, if that's the only thing our politicians
are focused on, will never be prepared because that means
politicians have to go to DC and bring back home
a bridge to nowhere so they can get re elected.
(11:55):
No one has backbone. We can't even go to a
two week correction in the stock market without people saying
this is the end. So he's been talking about this
for decades. For decades, he's on record talking about the
unfair treatment of America. But by the way, this is
mostly our fault, though we've allowed it to happen. And
(12:18):
so I think he's doing it because he sincerely believes
that we are extraordinarily vulnerable, and that this perch that
we sit on is sitting on really just its thin ice.
It feels good, but it probably felt good to Great
Britain in the late eighteen hundreds when they of the
preeminent nation, and to the Portuguese, and to the Habsburgs,
and to Spain and who are whoever else at any
(12:39):
given time was the pre eminent nation in the world.
But those periods generally last for one hundred years. We're
a little bit over one hundred years, so our expiration
data is coming up. Unless we do something about it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
We've got more of Charles pain.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
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dot com slash booth. That's preborn dot com slash booth
sponsored by preborn, you know. I mean it's interesting because
I think President Trump thrives in chaos and uses chaos
as a leverage, you know, of the other side wondering
what is he going to do?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You know, But then.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Alternatively, in that chaos right now is obviously like setting
off the markets and setting off panic. And so you know,
I wonder how much laying out just some clear objectives
of like here's why we're doing this, this is like
what we're gonna get from it would sort of calm
nerves and jitters.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Well, I think he's done that, but you know, he
got to be. He's got to be as a It's
an interesting thing, you can't you know, a long he
mentioned tariffs every campaign stop. He said, I'm gonna go
out to China every campaign stop. In fact, everything Trump
has done so far he promised he would do. He
promised he would do this. Maybe we're shocked that a
politician lived up to the promises. Maybe we underestimated what
(14:55):
it would mean, but he did promise this. Uh, and
so he's doing it, and he's got to make sure
that he's not letting the mainstream media in America manipulate
him to the point where it weakens his bargaining position.
So last Friday last week, rather after we announced the
(15:16):
initial the additional tariffs on China, they immediately announced tariffs
on US. One smart Wallstree firm said the only reason
they did that was to make the markets go down.
And then, of course, the next day China issued to
communicate saying the markets have spoken. In other words, hey America,
look at your markets. They're telling you to back off.
(15:37):
America's Americans cannot live for the stock market. It is
so dumb for the average person out there to be
concerned about the market going up every single day and
they don't have any money in a bank. It's ridiculous.
We already lived in this sort of new quasi patriotsism
of let's keep the GDP higher by staying maxed out
(16:00):
in debt delinquency. Don't know how our kids are going
to college. But the economy was good, the GDP number
was solid. That's not our job, you know. We have
We have a responsibility to our families and to ourselves,
and we spend too much money, to be quite honest
with you, he was particularly jumped from China in the
first place. U and so he's got to be careful.
(16:21):
You know, he's he's doing the broad stroke stuff. He
has other folks like Besant out there. I think I
like to see Lutnick and Naviarl sit down. I like Greer.
He doesn't speak a lot. I think I don't know
if he's bashful or whatever. Besson's been on air a lot,
Steven Myron. Those are good people to get out there
(16:42):
to sort of articulate this. But again, Trump is negotiating
this and he already knows that the media doesn't like him.
China knows the media doesn't like him, so he can't
be manipulated too much by trying to you know, again,
this morning, when Delta Airlines earnings came out, all of
fine ancial media, I was like, they're not going there.
They're not going give us guidance. They're so afraid. Yeah,
(17:05):
but what the news was was that the earnings were phenomenal,
that people were taking planes. That was the news. So
while people are concerned about the market, they haven't yet
stopped traveling. They haven't yet stopped doing things that they
normally do. Now they're scared enough, eventually they will and
that's the danger. So you know, it's a narrow it's
(17:27):
a narrow Trump has a very narrow area where he can,
you know, do one or two. His main thing right
now is he's got to hold the line. He put
out a teriff plan that no one anticipated, myself included,
and I just acquitted it last week when it came out.
The only thing I could think of was his first term.
You might remember this, Lisa, when he dropped Moab and
(17:49):
it's the Mother of all bombs. So and that was
the most non most lethal, non nuclear bomb in the
history of mankind. No president was thought about using it before.
He immediately dropped in on Isis and has sent a message.
This is sort of an economic mo ad. There's not
a lot of room to negotiate. This won't go tip
(18:10):
for tet. There won't be a whole lot of meetings.
We won't go to Paris and then a month later
go to Brussels, then a month later go to Tokyo. And
we're not gonna have a bunch of diplomats nodding and
shaking their hands in a green to meet again. No,
this is it line in the sand. What are you
gonna do? The rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I guess the lead part that confuses me is, so
I get like reciprocal tariffs. Obviously that sort of speaks
for itself. I get bringing manufacturing here, but like, how
do you equalize trade deficits?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Ultimately, I don't think that's the goal, but yeah, what
they're saying is that the people have to understand they're
official tariffs and there are non tariff barriers. Now. On
a recent show, I laid on about twenty non tariff barriers,
but Scott Myron, who's part of this negotiating team, said
that there are a thousand. We don't know about them.
(19:01):
They're tough. You know. Let's say you bring a product
into a country. Let's say you bring a product into America.
You want to sell in into America, a blender, but
New Jersey has a certain law that will stop it
from going in whatever that was made of a certain
plastic or California. You know, it's so nuanced, is so
marbled into these nations ways of stopping us from being
(19:21):
able to compete in their countries. They decided the only
way they could figure it out is, you know, using
trade deficits. Obviously, the bigger nation that a more powerful
economic nation probably will have a higher trade deficit. But
they also think hidden in there is the only way
to sort of figure out just how long spare the
system is because no one truly knows. All they know
(19:41):
is that they're barriers beyond tariffs that stopped us, and
so it's not fair trading, it's not free trading. And
that's why we don't sell any beef in Australia, but
they sell billions in America. So these things are nuanced.
And again it's not a tactic that I necessarily or
I wouldn't have thought of it. I'm not sure I
would have used it, but they did use it, and
(20:02):
they set the bar high. And so this is not
a game. The rest of the world understands. This is
not a game. You can try to go tip for tet.
But there's a reason everyone wants to bring their products here.
We have the wealthiest consumers in the world, and if
you want to make money, you sell it here. You
can't sell it anywhere else. You can't you know, no
one's going to buy it, no one can afford it.
(20:23):
You can put it in a warehouse. These countries are
in bad shape. China economically is and worse shape than
Americans think they have been for a long time. They
mismanaged the one child policy, they mismanaged COVID, they built
a whole bunch of ghost cities. They're in trouble Europe,
forget about it. They really just they have blown it.
So with the open borders and the high taxes, lack
(20:44):
of innovation, you know, they're in trouble. So we're coming
from a position of strength, perhaps for the last time
that we'll be able to come from a position of strength.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Well, you know, it's interesting because if anyone was doubting
the strength of America in both the global economy and
just excess superpower, I think this shows we are the
pre eminent superpower. And just like the you know, just
this TERRORFF announcement, just the impact it has had on
the global economy, I think sort of underscores what a
(21:15):
powerhouse we as we are as a country. You had
mentioned sort of China's weakness right now, will this bring
them to the table or kind of like what would
this trade war look like with China? And you know
who has the upper hand in this?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, we have the upper hand because we buy a
lot of stuff from them. Yeah, you know, I mean
they have some of our treasuries they can sell them.
But all as you remember, this thing kinda doesn't have
any any of our treasuries as a as a goodwill gesture.
It's not altruistic. It's altruistic. It's it's the best treasuries
to own in the world. So you don't want to if
(21:52):
you don't want to, if you don't want those, get
them from somebody else. There's a reason they want to
buy that. There's a reason they want to own our farmland.
There's a reason. And there's a reason they do business
with us. We made China wealthy when China entered when
Nixon went over there and Nixon and Kissinger, I think
the average annual income for the average person in China
was one hundred and fifty six bucks. This is the
(22:13):
early seventies a person a year when they entered the
World Trade Organization. They weren't much better on since then
and using rules that favored them that even to this
day treat them as an emerging nation, not the number
two economy in the world. They've been able to take
advantage and it's brilliant on their part. You know, Lisa,
(22:34):
what a lot of people don't realize. With China and
to a lesser extent with India is that they've always
wanted to get even with the West. You know, China
was the greatest economy, they were head of the most
of the world for a long time. Technologically, they built
the wall. They became an isolated insular nation because they
wanted to. And so finally the British show up, and
(22:57):
this is at the years of European you know, wars
and wars and wars, and they say, hey, we want
to trade with you. And initially the Emperor is like, what, no,
we don't want to do it. But then you know,
someone said, why don't we Why don't we trade with him?
We could send in the world with these great things
that no one else has, silk, jade, all of this
beautiful stuff. So they start sending that out to Europe
and in return they got silver, and they got so
(23:19):
much silver that Europe sort of panicked, and eventually the
British introduced this miracle drug to them called opium. So
after a few years of getting the opium going in
and the silver going out, the British showed back up
and say we want you to open more ports. The
Emperor says no, The British said we're not asking. The
(23:40):
first Opium War, the Emperor calls up the troop. So
guess what. Half of them are high on opium. And
by the way, they hadn't been in a war in
a long time. There's ships are that great technology they
had fifty hundred years earlier. Didn't work. It was terrible.
They got crushed. Had to open more ports. Same thing
happened in another few years. We want more ports now.
Second Opium War. China collapses to the point where they
(24:02):
finally have what they call the Boxer Revolution. The Boxer
Revolution wi all the peasants rise up the Chinese government.
The emperor is so weak he has to ask Japan
in the west for help. They give them help on
economic terms that would make the mafia blush. After that
was over, China became destitute, and of course a few
years lady have Mao and the story goes on. So
(24:26):
they have this long range thinking, this long ranch chip
on their shoulders. And we're worried about the market being
down for three days in a row. We can't win
if we stay like this.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
We've got more in the markets. But first, Israel's still
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That's one word support IFCJ dot org. I mean, Charles,
(25:45):
you don't just play. I mean you're not playing a
financial expert on TV. I mean you started your career
on Wall Street in nineteen eighty five, nineteen ninety one,
you started Wall Street strategies. I mean, you live, sleep,
and breathe this stuff for a living. What are you
telling cions right now?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Like what I mean? People are turning to people like
you and saying, what do we do?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So what's your advice?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
So let me tell you what's interesting? So you're right.
I've been doing this for almost forty years, and in
two thousand, the crash of two thousand was devastating. We
were we were hanging by a threat for three years.
I was so bad off that we had worked from
home before anyone else even knew what it was because
I couldn't afford an office. So we barely survived that.
(26:28):
Then came the crash in two thousand and eight, two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight. This time clients
didn't flee. They just held on. They said, Okay, we'll
stay with you, We'll see what happens. Then came the
COVID crash. You know what happened In the COVID crash,
people were calling me, I want to buy, I want
to buy. So over the last twenty five years, investors
(26:50):
have learned that, you know, maybe you don't panic anyse
sort of situations. So I'm asking them to do what
they've been doing, not to panic. And you know, I
was lucky in some ways, you know, I sold in video,
we had I had them take profits on Nvidia near
the top, volunteering near the top, Apple near the top.
But we still have a lot of other positions that
are that are down at this very moment. But we've
(27:12):
been through this together for a long time and the
majority of them want to know, just tell them when
it's time to buy. So they're not panicking. But they
read the scene newspapers, they hear the same stuff, and
so the airwaves are filled with this doom and gloom
stuff that it's hard to ignore unless you understand the
history of the market.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
What's sort of like safe long term investments for people
right now? If they're like, look, I kind of want
to get involved right now, it's a good time to
get in.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
What's what's smart?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean I hesitate to use the word safe because
any sad you can fit it any time. Bus I
you know, here's a good rule of thumb. If a
company's been in business for about one hundred years, more
than likely they'll be in business for another one hundred years.
It always, it always baffles me when people are afraid
to buy a stock in a company that I say,
you think they'll be around when you die? Who's going
to die first? You Google? I mean you were metal.
(28:02):
Who's gonna perish first? Uh? You know? Uh So I
think the worst mistake, obviously is not being in the
market is it's the greatest money create creating a machine
creation machine in history, and you just never know what's
going to be stuper duper hot. In the last five years,
one of the hottest stocks that's been Brinker. You know
(28:22):
what Brinker is is the parent company of Chili's. Have
you gone to Chili's recently? Stock going up twelve five years? So,
you know, I listen. I like exposure to rockets. I
like for people have exposure to the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
And by the same token, you know, home Depot is
going to be here, Yeah, Walmart will be here. So
(28:43):
you just have a mix of names in your portfolio,
names that you know would be here forever, and then
maybe a couple that you take a shot on that
could be huge. You know, as we go into humanoid robots,
as we go into more rockets, ships, more drones, So
you want to have exposure to that kind of sexy
stuff that sizzles but is volatile, and then basic stuff
(29:05):
that's just going to be their payon a solid dibdend
and go up. You know, every time I look at
these solid names, they they don't gallop, but they get
from point A to point B all the time, which
is higher. And during the time that you own them,
you still make You still make money through dividends. You
get yourself a balanced portfolio like that you sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
How'd you get into TV? So you know you started
on Wall Street? How'd you find your way over to
Fox News and Fox Business?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So that's an interesting that's a good story, good question.
As a kid, I lived on a army basis. My
father was in the Army. One day I came home
from school. My parents are separated. My mother's set were leaving,
so we left this beautiful two story house in Fort Lee, Virginia.
It was just an idyllic, wonderful place to live, a
way to grow up. And we all moved me, my mom,
(29:50):
and my two younger brothers to Harlem, which was the
worst neighborhood in America at the time, and all lived
in a room, and up to that particular moment I
never thought about but there we were completely broke, destitute,
all four of us living in a room. A few
months later we got an apartment, but that first winter
we had no heat or hot water. I was the oldest,
(30:11):
So I just took it upon myself to help my
mom and I did everything. I had, every kind of
hustle you can imagine, from cleaning windows of stoplights with
paper towns and windebts to a job at a bodega.
And so I'm thinking, I need to make money, and
I think we all equate Wall Street with money. So
I started reading the journal, or trying to read it. It
took me a few months to figure it out. It
(30:32):
was tough back then. It was nothing but lines and numbers,
and so I told my mom, I don't want to
work on Wall Street. And so I just studied anything
I could get. I bought my first mutual fund when
I was seventeen. She had to co sign. I joined
the Air Force, and in the Air Force, I bought
my first stock, and by the way, it was a
stock called MCI and the day who ran a company
(30:53):
was Bill McGowan I think was his name. He was
this hard charging, hard living kind of guy. Smoked like
seven packs of cigarettes, drank thirty cups of coffee a day,
and he was taking on the world's biggest company at
and T I was I've always been drawn to Mavericks, right,
people go against these David and Goliath stories. And the
stock did well and I got out. I started working
at Iff Hutton on the research side, which was no money,
(31:16):
but I learned a lot, and then that became a broker,
and as a broker, I had my own epiphany that
the industry wasn't what I thought it was. I thought,
you know, you go home, you find these great stocks
for your clients, but it really didn't work that way.
So I started my own research firm. So that's how
I got into business. And then at some point early
(31:36):
on I don't know how, but Wall Street the CNBC
heard about me somehow, so they called me up and said, hey,
can you come on. I came on. I started going
on there and I met Neil Neil Kabuto, Yeah yeah,
and so Neil goes over eventually leaves CNBC and he
goes to this thing called Fox. At the time, I
thought he was nuts. Yeah, at the time, the mark
(32:00):
it was sizzling every time you go in a bar
or restaurant. It was CBC. I'm like, what is this things?
This Fox thing he's done, you know. And then they
finally called me up. Neil wants you to come on
his box. I'm like, oh boy, all right, and I
come in. You know, I take the escalator down to
the basement. I think that was the first studio down
in the basement. I'm pretty sure that the table we
were using had three legs. I think I was holding
(32:21):
up my own with my knee. Yeah, the lighting was bad,
and I'm looking at Neil the whole time, like, my man,
you blew it. Of course he had not blown it.
And eventually they asked if I would become a contributor,
and then eventually I ended up with my own show.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Also, I feel like Neil help me get my start
as well.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So I feel like I started doing Your Rold was
one of the first shows I started doing at Fox.
Because you know how it goes, It's like one show
sees you and then the next book, like you just said,
you know, you started going on there and then they're like, oh,
you know so, and then it kind of has that
snowball effect.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I love that story. I didn't I didn't know all that.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I feel your book right now and Breakable Investor is
probably a good book for people to go pick up
right now, give it given the current environment and right it's.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Probably the ship book to pick up. And if you
have it, it's a good time to read it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, what sort of insight before we go? What sort
of insight can people get from it?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Which I'm sure is very applicable to where we are
currently and this environment.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
So it's my third book. And by the way, it's
free if you go to Unbreakable Investor dot com. People
just paid for shopping, shipping, and handling. Here's the first chapter.
Lisa is dedicated to my grandparents who bought a farm
in nineteen fifty two in Alabama and against all odds,
and even now I get chilled and choked up thinking
(33:48):
about what they had to sacrifice for that and the
risk that they took on being a black family with
a farm in nineteen fifty two in Alabama. And then
the time the night writers will come whatever and they
raise their family there. They never had indoor plumbing or electricity,
but they raised their family there. They owned it, they
had their own crops. And the main reason I mentioned
(34:10):
that is I feel like we all have a responsibility
to step up the foundation for future generations. So it's
not about getting rich, but it's about creating a firm
foundation and lifting it just a little bit more for
the future generation so that their life they can chase
their life's goals. And then in there, I've got chapters
(34:32):
on the Federal Reserve, i have chapters on the Fourth
Industrial Revolution. I have examples of how people confine stocks
by things around them. For instance, when you go to
buy food and you know, you have the screen pop
up and they say you want to put you know,
the tip and all that stuff. Yeah, people don't ever ask, well,
(34:52):
one of they're publicly traded. Because I use this every
day when I eat food, those kind of things. I
teach people how to find these ideas on their own.
Here's the great news. Every chapter I give you a
test at the end of each chapter. I want to
make sure you're learning. And that's why people peep the book.
I'm telling you people love it.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I love that Charles, I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You're a busy man. Everyone go check out Charles on
Fox Business. Making Money with Charles Pain. I really appreciate
your insight. I just I really wanted to have you
on because, you know, again, I feel like you just
do such a good job of sort of like cutting
through the noise of everything, and there's so much noise
right now, and so just kind of like getting the
heart of things, and so I feel like this was
super helpful and also just interesting to learn more about
(35:36):
your life story and kind of how you got started
at Fox as well as just a friend of a colleague.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Charles absolutely absolutely, Thank you so much. Lisa. I'm glad
you thalled that.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Was Charles Pain from Fox Business and Fox News. We
appreciate him making the time to join the show. Appreciate
you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week until next time.
We are going to continue to try to make sense
of the economy right now, of the markets in the
midst of a lot of chaos, a lot of noise
in the media, a lot of noise from naysayers as
well as always on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're just going to try to get you the truth.
That's what we do here On the Truth with Lisa Booth.
So today we'll have someone on.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Who I trust, who I turn to for advice, who
when I see him on TV I stop to listen.
His name is Charles Pain. You know him as the
host of Making Money with Charles Pain on Fox Business.
But besides that, he doesn't just play a financial expert
on TV. He's a veteran in the industry. He started
his time on Wall Street in nineteen eighty five. In
nineteen eighty one, he started Wall Street Strategy as a
(00:44):
stock market research firm. So this is the guy who eats, sleeps,
and breathes this stuff for a living.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
He brings a wealth of insight to the table.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So we're going to dive in to get his take.
Dive in on President Trump's tariff strategy, it's impact on
the markets and the economy, and what it means for
investors in both the short term and the long term.
I mean, most importantly, I'm gonna ask him what should
you do? What should we all do right now as
the markets continue to move and to shake. Plus, we'll
(01:17):
explore his journey to television and also his latest book,
Unbreakable Investor. I've always wondered how did he jump from
Wall Street to television, So we'll dig into all that
with my friend and colleague Charles Pain.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, Charles Pain, it's an honor to have you on
this show. Obviously, there's a lot of chaos.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Going on right now, and I always stop and listen
to you when you are on TV because you are calm,
You're measured, and we need that and we need your
wisdom right now. So it's an honor to have you on.
I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Thank you, Lisa. You know you've always been one of
my favorites.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, I feel the same about you, and you're so
smart and like you don't I don't think i've ever
seen you don't freak out, which is probably why you've
been so successful in all this. But also what we
need in this current environment, I guess like, Okay, so
sort of just big picture. Could you sort of give
us some perspective. What do you see right now when
(02:19):
you're looking at the markets and you're looking at the
economy right now.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
And it's interesting because there are two separate things right now.
You know, in Wall Street, there's there's these things that
call soft data, mostly surveys, and then things called hard
data like corporate earnings reports and things like that. And
so what's really amazing to me is this this phenomenon
that we're living through right now. We've never seen anything
(02:44):
like this. It's the amount of negative news stories that
have been put out there. It supersedes nine to eleven,
supersedes the global financial crisis, supersedes all kinds of all
kinds of really much more serious issues struck global financial issues.
And so we've been set up, the market has been
(03:05):
set up sort of to be on this nervous perch
because Lisa, we have a correction when the market pulls
back ten percent on average every year in the last
one hundred years, We've had one hundred and five of
them something like that. We have corrections when the market
pulls back twenty percent almost every four to five years,
five to six years in that area. So all this stuff.
Typically coming into the year, people would have said, we're
(03:27):
kind of due for these pullbacks or corrections, but they
have fanned of flames of fear and really, listen, be honest,
it's all about anti Trump media agenda. So that's the backdrop.
Everyone's nervous, everyone's more afraid than normal, and that means overreactions,
and it's been mostly overreactions to soft data. We got
(03:50):
the job support came in better than expected. It doesn't matter.
The next one is going to be bad. This morning
we got Delta Airlines great earning support. Don't worry, they're
afraid to give us. Guy, it's going to be bad
in the future. So this is what we're dealing with.
And unfortunately, when you get these things, they become sort
of a snowball, and they can become a boulder salt.
Data can become hard data when everyone gets afraid to
(04:12):
become self fulfilling. And so yet I freak out over
the way this thing has been messaged, but I know
it's been deliberate. And what I don't like, Lisa, is
that I think people who sell in a panic, particularly
taking losses, I think they've been regretted a year from now,
three years from now, five years from now, and so
I'm really spended by the coverage. Listen, obviously you want
(04:33):
to talk about risk anytime someone wants to do what
President Trump is talking about, which is sort of up
ending a system that's been in place for a while.
But while it's been in place, we have our foundation
beneath us has been eroding, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And that's the thing is right, like we're saying, which
is why.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I wanted to have you on the show, and which
is why you're so good at this is being able
to kind of like look deeper into everything and really
you know, to try to get an honest assessment of
what's really going on right now.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And so with all that, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's hard for people like me who don't do this
for a living of trying to figure out like how
bad are things right now? How manufactured is it? You know,
and so how how bad You don't give us some perspective,
how bad are things are?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
They bad? I know, you kind of got into the
soft data and the hard data.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's the irony. That's the irony. They're not bad yet, right,
So the market is building in a worst case scenario
and this is why it's again it's frustrating because sometimes
the markets can can create a worst case scenario. Give
you an example, coming into the year. For the last
couple of years, the top ten percent of Americans have
(05:44):
been doing fifty percent of the shopping because most families
are in their own personal recessions already. That's why we
got the election outcome that we got. But as the
market pulls back those top ten people a percentage rather
even though they're well off, they're going to pull back
their spending and so you may see you know, more
recessinary science and future data. Again that's manufactured by the
(06:06):
fact that they didn't run out of money, it's just
that they're becoming antsy. So this antsiness can create a problem.
But if you say, at this very moment, what data
can I point to this as the economy is a
bad shape. None, I can point to a lot of
data that can show that, you know, we were weakening,
that people have spent maxed out their credit cards and
things like that. But as Americans, we live with maxed
(06:28):
out credit cards, right, Some people do that for the
entire lives. And that's the frustrating part. That's the guessing part. Unfortunately,
the markets are are right now reacting negative, negatively to anything.
And there's an old saying on Wall Street selling the
gas selling, it's sort of sometimes you sell because the
person next to you sold, and then the person next
to you was sell. It's it's it's it's the same
(06:50):
thing on the upside. But you've seen markets where they
just go up and go up and go up, and
people chase them because, you know what, they think they're
going to keep going up. So this is an irrational
emotional period for the market where we don't have all
the answers and the default is to sell first, ask
questions later, or get answers later.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I think the issue, you know, So okay, so
I see what President Trump is trying to do in
the long term in bringing manufacturing here to the United States,
trying to make us more self reliant, self sufficient.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But the issue is time on a lot of these things,
right like even you know, I mean, you know, this
will probably be less complicated than even looking at bilateral
free trade agreements, but you know those can average around
one point five years to develop through period of time
even manufacturing plants getting them running, even if you retrofit.
It takes time, you know, so we don't have as
(07:45):
much time, especially Republicans looking ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
At the midterms.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
You know, he did promise this golden age in his term,
so can can he bake some of these long term
changes without sacrificing sort of this this short term, this
four year period of golden age?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You know. I mean, listen, if you were to build
the world's most magnificent skyscraper, first should have to dig
a big hole for the foundation. You know, it's it's
it's I think that what they have to do. And again,
this is where it's interesting to study William McKinley's presidency.
So I think they just have to get the ball rolling.
Uh uh. You know, we don't have to change have
(08:24):
change the entire thing overnight. It's sort of unrealistic to
think all these factories will be built in the next
two to four years. But we can see the permitting,
We could see some of the cranes put in place
right now. We've been you know, America's worst problem right
now is that we can't we don't we can't accept
any pain whatsoever. If it's emotional pain, you can you know,
(08:47):
go online or get an app. You know, listen to
ocean music. If it's physical pain, you could pop a
pill or smoke something. We don't. We don't even understand
the notion, not even to lose weight anymore. Right, you
don't have to go to the gym. A duke crunches.
So we don't even understand that issue. And it's really
going to hurt us longer term because they're going to
be something other things like you know, when it comes
to military uh uh and Taiwan eventually having to protect them.
(09:11):
You know, I don't think we'll be able to be
up to snuff to do it. But so messaging is
important for Trump and a Trump administration. And but when
people tell me we can't build a factory over nine ID,
I know we can't. That's not the point. The point
is China. Look up, Look up Google, if you get
a chance, new cities in China. They're building cities. They
(09:31):
they're completing the tallest bridge in the world. That just
the things that're going so magnificent. The only thing that
we build that's magnificent right now our football stadiums. We
build great football stadiums, right, but those aren't We're not
We're not investing in our children's futures. We're not investing
in our own futures. Since two thousand and nine, our
(09:53):
country made a decided shift. We're going to become in
this nation. It's called financialization, and everything was going to
be about money, making more money, all these new fangled
products from Wall Street. And that's essentially what we've done.
We've created four economic classes, the educated elite. The next
class are the barista class that served them. We have
(10:14):
a service economy all while we got a few blue
collar jobs left. And then after that, I call it
the play catered poor. They get enough government assistance that
they don't rebel against the system. That's unsustainable. What we're
talking about, there's unsustainable. That's how great empires in the
past have fallen down right in part so I get frustrated.
(10:35):
Someone said, we can't build a factory of a night. No,
we can't, but we can. We can put a stake
in the ground tomorrow. We can do the groundbreaking tomorrow.
We can we can sign off on all the regulations.
In fact, we need to get rid of all these regulations,
these barriers. Right. We can do those sort of things
and get the ball rolling. I think if Republicans can
show that the ball is rolling, that that's what they
(10:55):
need to do. You know, maybe by the midterms. It
certainly of the four years, and we'll have some actories
built again. We built some hellified football stadiums in less
than four years.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You know, why do you think President Trump is doing this?
You know, what do you think is overall objective?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Is?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
How do you see it?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well? I do a special report once a week. I
do I write every single day for my clients, but
I do one a weekly called Pain's Perspective. It is
usually twenty pages long. And this one I featured in
a one ad that Trump had taken out in the
New York Times in nineteen eighty seven that said, talked
about our defensive our defense preparedness, and he said, the
(11:35):
only reason we haven't done it as a nation is
we don't have the backbone. I mean, think about our
conversation already. We immediately talk about how Republicans can get
re elected. Well, if that's the only thing our politicians
are focused on, will never be prepared because that means
politicians have to go to DC and bring back home
a bridge to nowhere so they can get re elected.
(11:55):
No one has backbone. We can't even go to a
two week correction in the stock market without people saying
this is the end. So he's been talking about this
for decades. For decades, he's on record talking about the
unfair treatment of America. But by the way, this is
mostly our fault, though we've allowed it to happen. And
(12:18):
so I think he's doing it because he sincerely believes
that we are extraordinarily vulnerable, and that this perch that
we sit on is sitting on really just its thin ice.
It feels good, but it probably felt good to Great
Britain in the late eighteen hundreds when they of the
preeminent nation, and to the Portuguese, and to the Habsburgs,
and to Spain and who are whoever else at any
(12:39):
given time was the pre eminent nation in the world.
But those periods generally last for one hundred years. We're
a little bit over one hundred years, so our expiration
data is coming up. Unless we do something about it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
We've got more of Charles pain.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
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dot com slash booth. That's preborn dot com slash booth
sponsored by preborn, you know. I mean it's interesting because
I think President Trump thrives in chaos and uses chaos
as a leverage, you know, of the other side wondering
what is he going to do?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You know, But then.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Alternatively, in that chaos right now is obviously like setting
off the markets and setting off panic. And so you know,
I wonder how much laying out just some clear objectives
of like here's why we're doing this, this is like
what we're gonna get from it would sort of calm
nerves and jitters.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Well, I think he's done that, but you know, he
got to be. He's got to be as a It's
an interesting thing, you can't you know, a long he
mentioned tariffs every campaign stop. He said, I'm gonna go
out to China every campaign stop. In fact, everything Trump
has done so far he promised he would do. He
promised he would do this. Maybe we're shocked that a
politician lived up to the promises. Maybe we underestimated what
(14:55):
it would mean, but he did promise this. Uh, and
so he's doing it, and he's got to make sure
that he's not letting the mainstream media in America manipulate
him to the point where it weakens his bargaining position.
So last Friday last week, rather after we announced the
(15:16):
initial the additional tariffs on China, they immediately announced tariffs
on US. One smart Wallstree firm said the only reason
they did that was to make the markets go down.
And then, of course, the next day China issued to
communicate saying the markets have spoken. In other words, hey America,
look at your markets. They're telling you to back off.
(15:37):
America's Americans cannot live for the stock market. It is
so dumb for the average person out there to be
concerned about the market going up every single day and
they don't have any money in a bank. It's ridiculous.
We already lived in this sort of new quasi patriotsism
of let's keep the GDP higher by staying maxed out
(16:00):
in debt delinquency. Don't know how our kids are going
to college. But the economy was good, the GDP number
was solid. That's not our job, you know. We have
We have a responsibility to our families and to ourselves,
and we spend too much money, to be quite honest
with you, he was particularly jumped from China in the
first place. U and so he's got to be careful.
(16:21):
You know, he's he's doing the broad stroke stuff. He
has other folks like Besant out there. I think I
like to see Lutnick and Naviarl sit down. I like Greer.
He doesn't speak a lot. I think I don't know
if he's bashful or whatever. Besson's been on air a lot,
Steven Myron. Those are good people to get out there
(16:42):
to sort of articulate this. But again, Trump is negotiating
this and he already knows that the media doesn't like him.
China knows the media doesn't like him, so he can't
be manipulated too much by trying to you know, again,
this morning, when Delta Airlines earnings came out, all of
fine ancial media, I was like, they're not going there.
They're not going give us guidance. They're so afraid. Yeah,
(17:05):
but what the news was was that the earnings were phenomenal,
that people were taking planes. That was the news. So
while people are concerned about the market, they haven't yet
stopped traveling. They haven't yet stopped doing things that they
normally do. Now they're scared enough, eventually they will and
that's the danger. So you know, it's a narrow it's
(17:27):
a narrow Trump has a very narrow area where he can,
you know, do one or two. His main thing right
now is he's got to hold the line. He put
out a teriff plan that no one anticipated, myself included,
and I just acquitted it last week when it came out.
The only thing I could think of was his first term.
You might remember this, Lisa, when he dropped Moab and
(17:49):
it's the Mother of all bombs. So and that was
the most non most lethal, non nuclear bomb in the
history of mankind. No president was thought about using it before.
He immediately dropped in on Isis and has sent a message.
This is sort of an economic mo ad. There's not
a lot of room to negotiate. This won't go tip
(18:10):
for tet. There won't be a whole lot of meetings.
We won't go to Paris and then a month later
go to Brussels, then a month later go to Tokyo. And
we're not gonna have a bunch of diplomats nodding and
shaking their hands in a green to meet again. No,
this is it line in the sand. What are you
gonna do? The rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I guess the lead part that confuses me is, so
I get like reciprocal tariffs. Obviously that sort of speaks
for itself. I get bringing manufacturing here, but like, how
do you equalize trade deficits?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Ultimately, I don't think that's the goal, but yeah, what
they're saying is that the people have to understand they're
official tariffs and there are non tariff barriers. Now. On
a recent show, I laid on about twenty non tariff barriers,
but Scott Myron, who's part of this negotiating team, said
that there are a thousand. We don't know about them.
(19:01):
They're tough. You know. Let's say you bring a product
into a country. Let's say you bring a product into America.
You want to sell in into America, a blender, but
New Jersey has a certain law that will stop it
from going in whatever that was made of a certain
plastic or California. You know, it's so nuanced, is so
marbled into these nations ways of stopping us from being
(19:21):
able to compete in their countries. They decided the only
way they could figure it out is, you know, using
trade deficits. Obviously, the bigger nation that a more powerful
economic nation probably will have a higher trade deficit. But
they also think hidden in there is the only way
to sort of figure out just how long spare the
system is because no one truly knows. All they know
(19:41):
is that they're barriers beyond tariffs that stopped us, and
so it's not fair trading, it's not free trading. And
that's why we don't sell any beef in Australia, but
they sell billions in America. So these things are nuanced.
And again it's not a tactic that I necessarily or
I wouldn't have thought of it. I'm not sure I
would have used it, but they did use it, and
(20:02):
they set the bar high. And so this is not
a game. The rest of the world understands. This is
not a game. You can try to go tip for tet.
But there's a reason everyone wants to bring their products here.
We have the wealthiest consumers in the world, and if
you want to make money, you sell it here. You
can't sell it anywhere else. You can't you know, no
one's going to buy it, no one can afford it.
(20:23):
You can put it in a warehouse. These countries are
in bad shape. China economically is and worse shape than
Americans think they have been for a long time. They
mismanaged the one child policy, they mismanaged COVID, they built
a whole bunch of ghost cities. They're in trouble Europe,
forget about it. They really just they have blown it.
So with the open borders and the high taxes, lack
(20:44):
of innovation, you know, they're in trouble. So we're coming
from a position of strength, perhaps for the last time
that we'll be able to come from a position of strength.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Well, you know, it's interesting because if anyone was doubting
the strength of America in both the global economy and
just excess superpower, I think this shows we are the
pre eminent superpower. And just like the you know, just
this TERRORFF announcement, just the impact it has had on
the global economy, I think sort of underscores what a
(21:15):
powerhouse we as we are as a country. You had
mentioned sort of China's weakness right now, will this bring
them to the table or kind of like what would
this trade war look like with China? And you know
who has the upper hand in this?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, we have the upper hand because we buy a
lot of stuff from them. Yeah, you know, I mean
they have some of our treasuries they can sell them.
But all as you remember, this thing kinda doesn't have
any any of our treasuries as a as a goodwill gesture.
It's not altruistic. It's altruistic. It's it's the best treasuries
to own in the world. So you don't want to if
(21:52):
you don't want to, if you don't want those, get
them from somebody else. There's a reason they want to
buy that. There's a reason they want to own our farmland.
There's a reason. And there's a reason they do business
with us. We made China wealthy when China entered when
Nixon went over there and Nixon and Kissinger, I think
the average annual income for the average person in China
was one hundred and fifty six bucks. This is the
(22:13):
early seventies a person a year when they entered the
World Trade Organization. They weren't much better on since then
and using rules that favored them that even to this
day treat them as an emerging nation, not the number
two economy in the world. They've been able to take
advantage and it's brilliant on their part. You know, Lisa,
(22:34):
what a lot of people don't realize. With China and
to a lesser extent with India is that they've always
wanted to get even with the West. You know, China
was the greatest economy, they were head of the most
of the world for a long time. Technologically, they built
the wall. They became an isolated insular nation because they
wanted to. And so finally the British show up, and
(22:57):
this is at the years of European you know, wars
and wars and wars, and they say, hey, we want
to trade with you. And initially the Emperor is like, what, no,
we don't want to do it. But then you know,
someone said, why don't we Why don't we trade with him?
We could send in the world with these great things
that no one else has, silk, jade, all of this
beautiful stuff. So they start sending that out to Europe
and in return they got silver, and they got so
(23:19):
much silver that Europe sort of panicked, and eventually the
British introduced this miracle drug to them called opium. So
after a few years of getting the opium going in
and the silver going out, the British showed back up
and say we want you to open more ports. The
Emperor says no, The British said we're not asking. The
(23:40):
first Opium War, the Emperor calls up the troop. So
guess what. Half of them are high on opium. And
by the way, they hadn't been in a war in
a long time. There's ships are that great technology they
had fifty hundred years earlier. Didn't work. It was terrible.
They got crushed. Had to open more ports. Same thing
happened in another few years. We want more ports now.
Second Opium War. China collapses to the point where they
(24:02):
finally have what they call the Boxer Revolution. The Boxer
Revolution wi all the peasants rise up the Chinese government.
The emperor is so weak he has to ask Japan
in the west for help. They give them help on
economic terms that would make the mafia blush. After that
was over, China became destitute, and of course a few
years lady have Mao and the story goes on. So
(24:26):
they have this long range thinking, this long ranch chip
on their shoulders. And we're worried about the market being
down for three days in a row. We can't win
if we stay like this.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
We've got more in the markets. But first, Israel's still
under attack. Missile fire has resumed from the hou Thias,
has Bala and hamas enemy seeking Israel's destruction. Here in America,
we cannot imagine living under constant threat of terrorism and
rocket attacks. This is the reality in Israel. Parents taking
their children to school, falling to the ground to lay
(24:57):
on top of their small children, trying to comfort them
as sirens blair. The next attack against Israel is happening
now with little time to prepare, so we must act now.
That's why I'm partnering with the International Fellowship of Christians
and Jews to help provide life saving aid and security essentials.
You're urgently needed. Gift today will help provide security essentials
like bomb shelters, flack jackets and bulletproof vests for first responders,
(25:21):
armored security vehicles, ambulances, and so much more. Join me
in standing with Israel. Call to make your gift at
eight eight eight four a eight IFCJ. That's eight eight
eight four A eight four three two five, or you
can go online at support IFCJ dot org to give.
That's one word support IFCJ dot org. I mean, Charles,
(25:45):
you don't just play. I mean you're not playing a
financial expert on TV. I mean you started your career
on Wall Street in nineteen eighty five, nineteen ninety one,
you started Wall Street strategies. I mean, you live, sleep,
and breathe this stuff for a living. What are you
telling cions right now?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Like what I mean? People are turning to people like
you and saying, what do we do?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So what's your advice?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
So let me tell you what's interesting? So you're right.
I've been doing this for almost forty years, and in
two thousand, the crash of two thousand was devastating. We
were we were hanging by a threat for three years.
I was so bad off that we had worked from
home before anyone else even knew what it was because
I couldn't afford an office. So we barely survived that.
(26:28):
Then came the crash in two thousand and eight, two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight. This time clients
didn't flee. They just held on. They said, Okay, we'll
stay with you, We'll see what happens. Then came the
COVID crash. You know what happened In the COVID crash,
people were calling me, I want to buy, I want
to buy. So over the last twenty five years, investors
(26:50):
have learned that, you know, maybe you don't panic anyse
sort of situations. So I'm asking them to do what
they've been doing, not to panic. And you know, I
was lucky in some ways, you know, I sold in video,
we had I had them take profits on Nvidia near
the top, volunteering near the top, Apple near the top.
But we still have a lot of other positions that
are that are down at this very moment. But we've
(27:12):
been through this together for a long time and the
majority of them want to know, just tell them when
it's time to buy. So they're not panicking. But they
read the scene newspapers, they hear the same stuff, and
so the airwaves are filled with this doom and gloom
stuff that it's hard to ignore unless you understand the
history of the market.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
What's sort of like safe long term investments for people
right now? If they're like, look, I kind of want
to get involved right now, it's a good time to
get in.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
What's what's smart?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean I hesitate to use the word safe because
any sad you can fit it any time. Bus I
you know, here's a good rule of thumb. If a
company's been in business for about one hundred years, more
than likely they'll be in business for another one hundred years.
It always, it always baffles me when people are afraid
to buy a stock in a company that I say,
you think they'll be around when you die? Who's going
to die first? You Google? I mean you were metal.
(28:02):
Who's gonna perish first? Uh? You know? Uh So I
think the worst mistake, obviously is not being in the
market is it's the greatest money create creating a machine
creation machine in history, and you just never know what's
going to be stuper duper hot. In the last five years,
one of the hottest stocks that's been Brinker. You know
(28:22):
what Brinker is is the parent company of Chili's. Have
you gone to Chili's recently? Stock going up twelve five years? So,
you know, I listen. I like exposure to rockets. I
like for people have exposure to the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
And by the same token, you know, home Depot is
going to be here, Yeah, Walmart will be here. So
(28:43):
you just have a mix of names in your portfolio,
names that you know would be here forever, and then
maybe a couple that you take a shot on that
could be huge. You know, as we go into humanoid robots,
as we go into more rockets, ships, more drones, So
you want to have exposure to that kind of sexy
stuff that sizzles but is volatile, and then basic stuff
(29:05):
that's just going to be their payon a solid dibdend
and go up. You know, every time I look at
these solid names, they they don't gallop, but they get
from point A to point B all the time, which
is higher. And during the time that you own them,
you still make You still make money through dividends. You
get yourself a balanced portfolio like that you sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
How'd you get into TV? So you know you started
on Wall Street? How'd you find your way over to
Fox News and Fox Business?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So that's an interesting that's a good story, good question.
As a kid, I lived on a army basis. My
father was in the Army. One day I came home
from school. My parents are separated. My mother's set were leaving,
so we left this beautiful two story house in Fort Lee, Virginia.
It was just an idyllic, wonderful place to live, a
way to grow up. And we all moved me, my mom,
(29:50):
and my two younger brothers to Harlem, which was the
worst neighborhood in America at the time, and all lived
in a room, and up to that particular moment I
never thought about but there we were completely broke, destitute,
all four of us living in a room. A few
months later we got an apartment, but that first winter
we had no heat or hot water. I was the oldest,
(30:11):
So I just took it upon myself to help my
mom and I did everything. I had, every kind of
hustle you can imagine, from cleaning windows of stoplights with
paper towns and windebts to a job at a bodega.
And so I'm thinking, I need to make money, and
I think we all equate Wall Street with money. So
I started reading the journal, or trying to read it. It
took me a few months to figure it out. It
(30:32):
was tough back then. It was nothing but lines and numbers,
and so I told my mom, I don't want to
work on Wall Street. And so I just studied anything
I could get. I bought my first mutual fund when
I was seventeen. She had to co sign. I joined
the Air Force, and in the Air Force, I bought
my first stock, and by the way, it was a
stock called MCI and the day who ran a company
(30:53):
was Bill McGowan I think was his name. He was
this hard charging, hard living kind of guy. Smoked like
seven packs of cigarettes, drank thirty cups of coffee a day,
and he was taking on the world's biggest company at
and T I was I've always been drawn to Mavericks, right,
people go against these David and Goliath stories. And the
stock did well and I got out. I started working
at Iff Hutton on the research side, which was no money,
(31:16):
but I learned a lot, and then that became a broker,
and as a broker, I had my own epiphany that
the industry wasn't what I thought it was. I thought,
you know, you go home, you find these great stocks
for your clients, but it really didn't work that way.
So I started my own research firm. So that's how
I got into business. And then at some point early
(31:36):
on I don't know how, but Wall Street the CNBC
heard about me somehow, so they called me up and said, hey,
can you come on. I came on. I started going
on there and I met Neil Neil Kabuto, Yeah yeah,
and so Neil goes over eventually leaves CNBC and he
goes to this thing called Fox. At the time, I
thought he was nuts. Yeah, at the time, the mark
(32:00):
it was sizzling every time you go in a bar
or restaurant. It was CBC. I'm like, what is this things?
This Fox thing he's done, you know. And then they
finally called me up. Neil wants you to come on
his box. I'm like, oh boy, all right, and I
come in. You know, I take the escalator down to
the basement. I think that was the first studio down
in the basement. I'm pretty sure that the table we
were using had three legs. I think I was holding
(32:21):
up my own with my knee. Yeah, the lighting was bad,
and I'm looking at Neil the whole time, like, my man,
you blew it. Of course he had not blown it.
And eventually they asked if I would become a contributor,
and then eventually I ended up with my own show.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Also, I feel like Neil help me get my start
as well.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So I feel like I started doing Your Rold was
one of the first shows I started doing at Fox.
Because you know how it goes, It's like one show
sees you and then the next book, like you just said,
you know, you started going on there and then they're like, oh,
you know so, and then it kind of has that
snowball effect.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I love that story. I didn't I didn't know all that.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I feel your book right now and Breakable Investor is
probably a good book for people to go pick up
right now, give it given the current environment and right it's.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Probably the ship book to pick up. And if you
have it, it's a good time to read it.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, what sort of insight before we go? What sort
of insight can people get from it?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Which I'm sure is very applicable to where we are
currently and this environment.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
So it's my third book. And by the way, it's
free if you go to Unbreakable Investor dot com. People
just paid for shopping, shipping, and handling. Here's the first chapter.
Lisa is dedicated to my grandparents who bought a farm
in nineteen fifty two in Alabama and against all odds,
and even now I get chilled and choked up thinking
(33:48):
about what they had to sacrifice for that and the
risk that they took on being a black family with
a farm in nineteen fifty two in Alabama. And then
the time the night writers will come whatever and they
raise their family there. They never had indoor plumbing or electricity,
but they raised their family there. They owned it, they
had their own crops. And the main reason I mentioned
(34:10):
that is I feel like we all have a responsibility
to step up the foundation for future generations. So it's
not about getting rich, but it's about creating a firm
foundation and lifting it just a little bit more for
the future generation so that their life they can chase
their life's goals. And then in there, I've got chapters
(34:32):
on the Federal Reserve, i have chapters on the Fourth
Industrial Revolution. I have examples of how people confine stocks
by things around them. For instance, when you go to
buy food and you know, you have the screen pop
up and they say you want to put you know,
the tip and all that stuff. Yeah, people don't ever ask, well,
(34:52):
one of they're publicly traded. Because I use this every
day when I eat food, those kind of things. I
teach people how to find these ideas on their own.
Here's the great news. Every chapter I give you a
test at the end of each chapter. I want to
make sure you're learning. And that's why people peep the book.
I'm telling you people love it.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I love that Charles, I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You're a busy man. Everyone go check out Charles on
Fox Business. Making Money with Charles Pain. I really appreciate
your insight. I just I really wanted to have you
on because, you know, again, I feel like you just
do such a good job of sort of like cutting
through the noise of everything, and there's so much noise
right now, and so just kind of like getting the
heart of things, and so I feel like this was
super helpful and also just interesting to learn more about
(35:36):
your life story and kind of how you got started
at Fox as well as just a friend of a colleague.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So I really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Charles absolutely absolutely, Thank you so much. Lisa. I'm glad
you thalled that.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Was Charles Pain from Fox Business and Fox News. We
appreciate him making the time to join the show. Appreciate
you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday,
but you can listen throughout the week until next time.
Host
Lisa Boothe
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