Is Cheating a Choice? with Sophie Jaffe

Sophie Jaffe shares how her husband cheating actually strengthened their relationship-- but that could only happen by realizing that her husband’s sex addiction wasn’t just his problem- it was hers too. What would normally break or ruin a family is actually what made the Jaffe’s. Many couples that stay together after infidelity are left feeling shameful, and without a sense of trust for another. But Sophie shares what happens when you put in the work, individually, and together, and show up with “Radical Transparency.” The result can be a healthy relationship that’s far more intimate than it ever could have been without the bumps that got in the way. 

Follow Sophie at @sophie.jaffe

Check out Sophie’s superfood line of amazing products, free of fillers here: https://www.thephilosophie.com/

Check out Sophie and Adi’s podcast at IGNTD Podcast: https://www.igntd.com/podcast

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
M hm, no fel a right. Even when times gutheart
and feel you're in the dark. Cutesy, Just how beautiful
if can be when you soph in your heart, you

(00:22):
can findly start to fire true See is Life? Welcome
back to the Truthiest Life Podcast. I'm your host Lisa Hame.
This week we have another amazing guest that has totally
transformed my mind, and I put a little audio clip
over on the Truthiest Life Instagram account and asked you

(00:45):
all to guess who it was, and so many of
you knew the voice, so that was kind of a
fun thing. I'm considering doing that moving forward, and a
fun thing to do over on the Truthius Life podcast.
But I know that not all of my guests we're
gonna have voices that you know, but some of them
that do. It kind of a fun game to play. Anyway.
This episode is amazing. It is with my friend Sophie Jaffie.
You may have seen her on Instagram before, or you

(01:07):
may follow her most people that follow her, but don't
follow her too closely. Just think that she's this, you know,
pretty chick who does yoga, But wow, Sophie's story is
so much more. It involves a partner who has a
sex addiction. It involves infidelity on both parts. It is
about working through the stuff, and I admire Sophie's vulnerability
so much because she shows up to the internet. She

(01:29):
gets a lot of shade for her life and from
people that don't think that it's possible to do what
she does, and she doesn't live in shame, and she
shows people what happens when you do the work. And
she never says that it's easy, but she explains that
it's what she calls an ignited life. It's full of
passion and doing the work and having these deep connections
with everyone in your life, yourself, your friends, and your partner.

(01:52):
This episode is amazing. Sophie does touch on a little
bit of sexual and domestic abuse. I may be overcautious
with these content warnings, but on the other hand, I
don't think you can be too cautious. I love having
hard conversations and people sharing their truth, but I always
want to protect both my guests and my listeners, so
I'll continue to put them here cautiously. This week Monday
will be December four, and I'm hosting a free webinar

(02:15):
five times this week all the way through Sunday on
emotional eating. You can register at fork the Noise dot
com forward slash webinar. I'll put that in the show
notes and it's called the Emotional Eating Action Plan. And
this is not a webinar that tells you that emotional
eating is bad and here's what you should do, you know,
when you're hungry instead of eating, it's getting to the
root of why we eat emotionally, why we turned to food,

(02:37):
why it feels good, what's underneath that, what other tools
do we have, and recognizing that food and eating is
not a crime, especially during these highly emotional times really
at any point. But it's my goal to give you
my step by step process for making it a conscious
experience so that when you emotionally eat and use food

(02:57):
to cope, you recognize that there's nothing to be ashamed of,
there's nothing to feel guilty of, there's no compensating that
you need to do. So I'm so excited to share
this with you, So register at fork Noise dot com
forward slash webinar and let's jump into this great episode
with Sophie Jaffee. I'm so excited to see Sophie. Sophie

(03:23):
is a wellness expert and entrepreneur. She's a mindful mom
of three beautiful kids, owner of a super food company, philosophy,
co host of Ignited podcasts with her husband and d
and an all around badass human that I call my
friend and I personally look up to in every which way. So, Sophie,
you are a dream guest of mine. From marriage to

(03:44):
raising kids to your many they're not really side hustles,
They're all your full on hustles. Everything you do comes
from a beautiful place of just wanting to make the
world happier, healthier, and i'd say more empowered. I personally
love how you give a big f you two shame
when it comes to everything. You're full of energy, bliss, balance,

(04:06):
and best of all, you're not all talk. You truly
live out your truthiest life every single day. Thank you.
Thank you so much. You you really do so. You
might not know this, but being a mom is like
something that I'm super excited about, but it scares me
the most, and I have been looking up to you since.
Do you remember when we were on like a work
New York trip two years ago? Yes? How could I forget?

(04:28):
Do you remember how you arrived to the trip. Yeah,
I do. Do you want to repeat that for everyone? Yes,
So Sophie was carrying two month old baby Noah everywhere
that we went. We were We stayed up till three
o'clock in the morning having girl talk. Noah was sleeping
on your lap. You know, you were breastfeeding in between
work stuff. And the trip really stained my mind because

(04:53):
you were just so full of giggles and realness and
I got to know you, but I got to see
you do the mom stuff and the works up at once.
It was that. You know, the only reason it was
a hard trip for me is because I didn't quite
have her sleep routine down. Like I was like, oh,
I'll just lay next to her in bed and like

(05:14):
it'll be fine, and it just wasn't. She just didn't
sleep well. She just stared at me, and you know,
so it was just the sleep thing, which I can
go without sleep for a couple of days, but I
depend on my sleep for my mood and for my
livelihood and just to feel really vibrant and alive. I
need good sleep. I'm addicted to having a good sleep pattern.
So again, a few days it was fine, but that

(05:35):
was the only thing. It wasn't about having her. I
prefer having my kids around for those moments. And you know,
Ki and Leo grew up going with me to philosophy
demos and grocery stores, handing out samples at events, selling
my product and like putting the credit card through and
I'm selling, you know it, Just like that's what I
love is co creating with them, and my brand is

(05:56):
my family, and that's beautiful to me. That trip is
definitely like a display and like almost like a living
metaphor for you know. What I try to obtain is
that balance of being myself, what makes Sophie Sophie giggling,
having girl talk, hanging out with these amazing women, connecting

(06:17):
over just real life things, and then also my child
there so I get to be with her, I'm breastfeeding,
I'm hanging all of it combined, where it like really
feels like I'm in alignment instead of these categories that
have to stay separate. That's just not the way that
I parent. And I don't know what it's because I
was such a young mom when Kyle was born. I
was twenty six, So I don't know if that had

(06:39):
anything to do with it, If it's just the way
that I am. But regardless, I love letting my kids
be a part of as much as I want them
to be a part of, and then having separate adult
time of course, because that's imperative as well. Yeah, I
had never seen anyone juggle it quite like you. So
when I say I look up to you because you
do it all, I feel like most people who do
it all, like when you tap into them, there's a

(07:01):
piece that's so missing. Their deplete energetically because they don't
feel themselves up, or their children might feel neglected because
they work so much, or their work might not be
bringing in as much because they're you know, there's not
usually that balance. But I got to see you in action,
and holy f everything that you do is with such
fire and passion that it's invigorating. You know from Afar.

(07:26):
Before I knew you, it was intimidating. But once you
know you, you really raise the bar for everyone around you.
And you, like I said in the beginning, like you
you walk the walk like you were mindful. With Noah,
you were mindful, like everything just came together. So you
clearly make it look easy. Is it easy? Well, it's
easy when it's in flow, right, It's easy when it's working,

(07:49):
it's easy when it's fluid, it's easy when I'm supported,
it's easy when I'm speaking up for what I need.
But like all of those things all at once, constantly, No,
there's plenty of times when like ship falls apart because
it's a lot of balls in the air. So when
all the balls are being juggled and it's like a dance,
it's like poetry. It's amazing, and it feels so good,

(08:11):
and like the crazy days feel like nothing. They feel
effortless because they are so supported and I feel so integrated.
But there are plenty of days where I didn't get
enough sleep, where something gets thrown off, where I get
into a fight with a d where um, one of
the kids is suffering or acting out and it's just
like why are you acting out? And there's no rhyme
or reason, Like those moments could constantly shine through. But

(08:33):
for the most part, yeah, it is when it's in
flow and things in all systems ago, it's it's a
beautiful thing to be a part of. I just want
to highlight that you said, like the system is in flow,
and part of that flow is you verbalizing your needs.
I don't think that most people realize that a flow
requires the pedaling of yourself, which means the communication for

(08:56):
asking what you need. I think that people expect that
it's more effortless, and you're kind of here saying, yes,
the flow is beautiful. It's hard. Things fall out, but
when we are in flow, I'm working really hard so
that that speaks volumes to me. Is there like one
thing that you have to do every single day to
keep yourself afloat? Yeah, I'd say just be alone. Just

(09:18):
I have to be alone, and it can't be work related,
Like I just need to do something alone, whether it's
outside reading a book by myself with my phone on
airplane mode, or going on a walk in my neighborhood
like without anyone else. I don't really know if I'm
an extrovert or an introvert. I think I'm a little
of both, and I definitely fill up in both ways.
But if I don't get that solo time and it

(09:39):
changes every single day. Sometimes it's a bath, sometimes it's
a movie. Sometimes it's Netflix. Sometimes it's ice cream on
my kitchen floor. Sometimes it's you know, just being outside
alone or being in my sauna like, it doesn't really matter.
It's more about tuning into that desire and that communication
within myself and then everything else can be more at
peace because I got what I need. And does alone

(10:01):
also mean phone free? Because you're we also didn't even
mention aside from being an entrepreneur in all the ways
with your own businesses and by the way, your kids
are also actors, so you're in a million places at once,
you're also an incredible influencer and that I don't say
lightly because again every post has passion behind it. So

(10:21):
does that alone time mean plugging off like being off on? Yes, yeah,
I can't be on the phone. I actually don't really
want to be on any devices, but once in a
while I'll like put on a dance class or put
on a yoga class. Digitally, I prefer not to you.
I prefer to just go inward and get the answers
from within. But sometimes I'm like, I don't have anything
left to give, so I just want to be passive
and followed along with something. Yeah. So it just honestly

(10:44):
depends on the day. But for the most part, it
means no anything technology so that I can just find
that rhythm within, like, do you ever feel it sounds
very woo woo, But I sometimes just can feel that
the TV is even plugged in, or I can feel
the WiFi right Like I can feel the WiFi in
my room, and I'm like, I need to unplug everything
or just get outside because it's messing with my brain

(11:06):
waves totally. The energy is there. My husband sometimes brings
his computer into the bed, and I'm like, like, I'm
not like annoyed because I'm angry that he's doing that.
On principle, I'm a little annoyed because of that, but
my body has like a visceral reaction to it. So
I'm like not being an evil, you know, wife, because
like with hard rules, but the energy is real. So

(11:27):
I'm glad that you said that. So I want to
do to come on the podcast. When I, you know,
came up with the Truthious Life, I had a list
of ten women, and you were front and center of
women that I wanted to have not just because I
love you as a friend, but because I think so
many women and men, let's just say, couples live in
shame and secrecy about something that you're really open with.

(11:47):
And that's the topic of cheating and infidelity. It's obviously
easier to show up on the internet as a perfect
couple that has it all together, and you endy do
the opposite thing I will say is you don't show
up and be like we're fighting right now. It seems
like you really honor the privacy of what a couple
needs to go through. But both of you have given

(12:09):
your life's work to not putting a part of your
relationship in a closet, but rather taking it out. So
before we even get to like the infidelity, you met
A D when you were really young, right, Yeah, we were.
I was twenty and he was twenty eight, and we
met at U c l A. I was an undergrad
and he was doing his HD program and neuroscience and
we met in an undergrad neuroscience class. And I was

(12:32):
just coming out of a really unstable, abusive relationship for
five years, which was my first quote love, and I
was just flips upside down. And then I met A D.
And I just completely fell in love with this idea
of who he was and I did feel him. But
we had a lot of work to do from minute
one because we both had been through so much, and
obviously everyone's been through a lot. But the minute I

(12:54):
met a D he had already in the last three years,
had to go completely sober. Was addicted to math at
a given time. Was a drug a huge drug dealer
and very successful in l A. He's great with numbers.
He had already been to jail for a year. He
had like nine felony counts, like just ship that like
most people don't go through that, right, And so the

(13:17):
amount of things that we had both been through, and
then to attract each other and find one another, like
even the amount of puzzle pieces that had to fit
together to get him in that room that day because
it was an undergrad class, and he asked his you
know whoever, he asked like the person in charge of
his PhD program. He asked if he could just sit
in on a neuroscience undergrad course. And so this one

(13:38):
didn't finish schedules, but mine did. And so he sat
next to me, and we all of the things right
where at u c l A. There's thousands of people
and thousands of different opportunities to miss each other. And
so we we sat next to each other, and we
both equally in the same moment vibed and found each other,
and we each said to our friends, I just found
my husband. I just found my future wife basically the

(14:00):
same week. And so that is really what we held
on to, even though there was all this turbulence and
work to do. And so you know, I think we
we ourselves had so much, you know, at stake, and
also we had been through so much and on all
we wanted was like healthiness, but we didn't know how
because we had both been in such destructive past relationships

(14:21):
with ourselves and with others. We weren't exactly like in
the entusist position, but we fought through it anyway. So
I assume that the passion was high, like there was
like that energy jolt that not every love relationship has.
But for like I said, everything you do is with passion,
So I feel like if there's not electricity, like you're
not in it. So that's what I imagined as twenty

(14:42):
year old Sophie. That's true, yes, And he's the same way.
And I actually remember like spending the night with him
a few times, and the energy that a D wakes
up with now still is like ten times Sophie. So
you think I'm energetic, You think I have locked of passion.
This man has been given a second chance. In his mind,
he's like, I'm a privileged white Jewish man with money

(15:04):
for his family got him out of going to jail
for more than a year. If he were a black man,
or underprivileged or any other many many things, he would
have been in jail his entire life. And he knows that.
So he lives his life from that place. And so
when he wakes up in the morning, his passion for
his purpose is what makes him open the shades to
the windows right away. And like, even when he was

(15:25):
twenty eight, it was like the fact that he got
out of jail, the fact that he got into graduate
school in the top school for psychology, impeach, all of
these things. He knew that he was given a second chance,
and so that's how he lives his life. Still I
have yet to see that, Laver, and so that was
really attractive energy for me. Yes, I'm like that too,
but he is even more so. And that's why our

(15:45):
podcast is called Ignited, because we live an ignited life
and it's full of purpose and it's full of what
can I do to keep this fire ignited? Which is life?
What what is an ignited life, and it's that It's
like that passion and purpose and drive have that yummy
energy in our lives, whether it be friendships, work relationships,
self love, raising children, Like what ignites you is really

(16:09):
what we're like always searching for. So in in the beginning,
was there a honeymoon phase or was it always there was? Okay?
And what was that like? Yeah, the first few months
were just like obsessed with each other. Like I remember,
like we were really into like if you remember the
Fruit Fruit soundtrack, that song let Go was like our
soundtrack during that time, and he helped me learn how
to let go. And I was like so scared of

(16:31):
my own sexuality and sensuality because I had been through
such an abusive time with my ask. He was this
older man who had all this experience. So we just
dove in and we spent every single second together. We
couldn't get enough of each other. He told me his
story pretty early on because he was like, this is
typically when women leave, and I'm going to be radically
transparent with you before he knew what that meant, and

(16:54):
that only made me more attracted to him, because I
was like, damn, I had no idea and if you
can sit here beside me with that path and with that,
that's what that drive, that's the source of the drive.
That's why you're sitting beside me. If he went along
the normal track and didn't go to jail for a
year and didn't have work released for a year, didn't
follow those patterns, I wouldn't have met him. It had

(17:15):
to be those things that make him him. And if
there's anything I've learned in the last few years with
embracing my shadows and you know that being a normal
phase of life, it's that there is no good and bad.
And that's hard for someone who's a good girl and
really wants there to be a good and a bad.
There isn't. There isn't a good and a bad. And
those experiences in his life led him to be the

(17:37):
person that he is today, which is why I was
attracted to him in the first place. I mean, he
could have been sitting there without that path and I
wouldn't have been attracted to him. So that's what makes
me who he is. And once he told me that,
he told me that about three months into the relationship
and only took it up to another level. And so
that I think honeymoon phase was like four or five
months and then ship got real and he's like, you're
crying every time we have sex, and he's alrealy before

(18:00):
we before we get into kind of phase two. I
just want to say, how you know, for you he
fit this pieces of you know, an older man who
was so open. But for him, he showed you your
broken parts and you said I love you because of
your broken parts. Like that must have been like, so,
I'm never going to let you go to him because
you are the person that he showed it all too,

(18:22):
and you did the opposite reaction. Yeah, I love all
parts to you. And I have to say, even when
he told me that it was Thanksgiving time and I
told my parents and they were actually I told my
dad sitting in my kitchen with the dining room table
I remember from growing up in d C. And we're
sitting at that dining room table in the kitchen and
the light was pouring and I told him and he
was really accepting. But again, it's like a lot of information.

(18:45):
Both of d and I are a lot right. You
have to like be open to the a lot nest
of it. And just you know, I've learned to accept it.
But yeah, I told my sister who's the same age
as a d and she was not thrilled. She was
not thrilled at all, just that he had this past
and he was older. And then before ship hit the fans, yeah,
before she hits the fan, she was just like, yeah,

(19:06):
I'm not wild about the fact that he's my age
and he's been to jail and then he has all
this stuff, and she just was very judgmental because she
was protecting her baby sister. And I get it, but
you know, love is love, and I loved him even
more for the things he had been through because I
saw something in him and that was that ignited energy.
So after four or five months, like you brought some

(19:27):
sexual trauma into this relationship, right, Yeah. So I was
abused by my first boyfriend pretty regularly. I'd say like
a few times a month. He would either like put
me in the closet if I did something wrong, like
and when I stay wrong, I mean like look at
a boy. He would always be like, I know you're
cheating on me. I know your Y and Z. I
never did anything. Ever. I would come home and like

(19:50):
a V neck, white T shirt would be sitting in
shreds on my bed like a brand new T shirt
because it was a V neck and V nex or
apparently sexual. So I started to like slow really chip
away at my sensual and sexual self. And so I
was so afraid and just repressed, and like sexual energy
was bad. I couldn't look. I couldn't have that sexual

(20:11):
energy except for with him, which obviously is almost impossible
to create that with one person if you're not allowed
to like let it exist without him, right, So yeah,
it was just like this crazy he he raped me
when he'd get really drunk, and that happened like four
or five times, and he had this really crazy temper,
like he had such an anger problem. His dad was
a recovering alcoholic, but like really never dealt with the

(20:32):
real issues, which is another reason to like makes us
his life purpose because it's not about the thing, it's
about the internal issues and the core beliefs. And his
dad would like kick the dog and kick it down
the stairs and just like really violent, crazy behaviors. And
that's what I was exposed to for almost five years.
So that person came into this relationship with a d

(20:53):
and that girl was was really really damaged and really
hurt and he didn't know what to do with me.
He knew that I cried every time it sexts. He
knew that there was something wrong, but he didn't know
how to address it. No, just to take one moment
to just celebrate how the two of you broke the
cycle of violence, and then you know, teaching that in
your home, in spite of the intense energy that you are,

(21:17):
there is a soft, gentle undercurrent and you guys really
broke it. Kudos because you broke the cycle. That's that's huge.
So I think that we sometimes people like we we forget,
especially after four months of a honeymoon phase, that the
people that were with were people before we met them,
and especially after the honeymoon phase, where like things aren't
as fun anymore. You realize that you're not a perfect

(21:39):
puzzle piece like you thought you were for months one
through three or six or year or whatever, and that
every person has like little shards of you know, brokenness
that the other person it's not their job to fix them.
But I I saw Rachel Ricketts say that her boyfriend
or her partner has been like a container for growth
for her, and I was like, I love that that

(22:00):
that spoke to me, But it sounds like a D
also with his past and maybe personal feelings of like
self worth. And that's an assumption by the way, just
knowing addiction and how that all happens. It's kind of like, well,
this woman's crying when I have sex with her. Did
that like hit a pang of him of unworthiness? He
just was like, I don't wanna hurt her even more

(22:23):
so it was like I'm gonna go figure this out.
It wasn't like I'm going to go fuck some woman.
It wasn't like that. It was a slow burn of
a relationship that he started with this other woman in
school who was very aggressive with him and just kept
hitting on him, and he was trying to hook her
up with his best friend and she wanted a d

(22:43):
and so she was very aggressive with him, and he
obviously like didn't mind the attention and he was getting
it in a way that I couldn't give. And eventually
they began sleeping together, but they like hung out for
four months before anything even happened on a physical level.
But he was getting something that he felt like he
didn't want to put more pressure on me, Like you
know when you say it out loud. It was like, really, like,

(23:05):
why didn't we just deal with it? But it's scary,
it's a lot, and I wasn't exactly open to talking
about it at the time because I also didn't even
know what was going on. I just I knew that
what I had been through was bad and like felt
wrong in my body. But I didn't know how to
talk about that with anyone else because I lived in
a lie for so long, like my old my own
best friends barely knew what was going on, barely scratched

(23:26):
the surface. So if I'm not talking about it with them,
how am I going to talk about with this guy
who I'm trying to like, impress and be in love
with and not present as broken. I would think, you know,
you would present as shiny and sexual and son and young.
Young was like part of your identity too. So this
is when you're just dating, right, you're not married at
this point or no, no kids, No, we were just dating. Okay,

(23:48):
you found out that he was cheating or he told you,
he told me, he came to me and said, I
need to talk to you. He had he told his father,
who now isn't here with us anymore. He died of
cancer when I was pregnant with Kai, but he told
his dad and his dad was like, you know what
you have to do, right, and he was like yeah.
So he called me and we walked around my parents
neighborhood and most felis in the hills. And by the

(24:08):
time we ended the circle, the like a little loop
around their house, I was sitting on his lap and
he was just bawling and I was just like, you
know that we have to break up, right, And he
was just like yeah. And that was a time of
It was almost a year that we were apart. I
really didn't think we're going to get back together. There
might have been something in my heart, like I hope
that he changes or I hope that something happened, but

(24:29):
for the most part, I had moved on. I was traveling.
I was young. I was twenty one. Um went to Europe,
went to Thailand with a man who came into the
juice bar and brought me on his adventure like I
was in this like been open, expansive discovery, curiosity, like
exactly what I needed as a twenty one year old.

(24:49):
And then we found each other again. He started going
to therapy, went to start going to yoga on his own, which,
if you know, a DS like not exactly a yogi,
but I was the yoga for him. And when I
was gone, and he thought that Sophie nous and so
he started going to my favorite yoga teachers in Santa
Monica and yeah, he just he he was going to
yoga like five times a week, which again for him

(25:10):
is like what But that was part of his healing
and he really needed to be apart from me. Oftentimes
we need to be apart from the source to be
able to get perspective of like how we're showing up
to that thing. And it really changed him. He really
during that break, he was just like, wow, I just
lost something so special. And his dad got cancer during
that time, so it's like he's going through so much

(25:31):
and he's just wishing that we have each other. And
I just kept being like, you need to just not
reach out to me anymore because this isn't helping us heal.
And eventually, while I was traveling in Thailand, he saw
this mug and like coffee bean and it said what
would you do if you would not fail? You know
that that quote? And he's like, I know this is cheesy,
but I saw this quote today and what I would
do is fight to get you back with everything I have.

(25:53):
And here's the ways that I would show up differently,
and here's what I want to work on. And I
wrote him back, you know, I called him right away
from one of those like internet at cafe places and
just said, I'm here for this. I'm so excited, and
we have to go to therapy. We need some real
help tick to navigate all of this because it's a lot.
And he agreed, and somehow I had that wherewithal you know,

(26:14):
years old, to be like, we have to go to therapy.
That isn't like the sexiest thing to say to someone
when they're trying to sweep you off their feet, but
it's like there wasn't an option. We were broken, Like
we had this a lot of stuff that needs to
be repaired. So yeah, from then on, I mean I'm
thirty six, so fifteen years ago on, we've had a
couple of therapy, you know, on and off as maintenance
and then some really intensive times. And therapy allowed us

(26:37):
to find a place that we can meet in the
middle and understand each other and fight it out in
a safe way. It didn't end there though, right some
of the you know, there were obviously lots of patches
of growing together. Um White, how old are you when
you got married twenty five when I got married, twenty
five when you got married, and then you had your
first son at around twenty six? Yeah, were there still

(26:58):
little problems or we're thaying pretty ko. I could feel
that something was off, but I wasn't sure what it
was because we were in therapy and like, we're doing
all these things and we're checking all these boxes off.
And then I was pregnant with Kai. So it was
a few years later after getting back together, and I
was babysitting for friends in Santa Monica and the kid
had gone to sleep, and I was just like on

(27:18):
my laptop and somehow I broke into a fake email
address that he had. Like, I just could feel there
was something that I didn't know, So I started just
like fishing around and like a sleuth, just mean, when
you want to find something, you can find it, no
matter what it is. And I found it. I found
this fake email address. The email address led me to
this website, Ashley Madison dot com. This is for married

(27:40):
men to cheat on their wives and We weren't actually
married yet at the time when he started it, and
then I'm like eleven weeks pregnant with Kai. We had
just gone to our first ultrasound. We had just gone
on this amazing vacation. Oh hi, nothing never said a word,
never any like instinct, but he was being sneaky. It
was just kind of like another way, sort of like
the drug was like another way to disconnect from his

(28:03):
reality and numb his pain and not have to deal
with things right, to avoid things. So he would go
to this thing which made him feel excited. And he
never cheated, but he did emotionally cheat. He was texting
with girls and sending the photos and they were sending
him little videos and like you know, it was like
sexting before there was sexting, and he was paying for that,
and I just felt so violated. And you just stumbled

(28:25):
on that and figured it out. Did you confront him immediately? Immediately?
And he was doing he was finishing up this PhD.
He was like in the basement of u c l
A doing research with like rats and doing surgeries and
like studying the brain and like not glamorous, pretty awful.
And he's back, he's down there in this cold, disgusting
basement of U. C l A. And I'm like, I

(28:47):
found the email address, and I found on the website,
and he just like lost his ship. And then very quickly,
because we had been through something similar before, we really
quickly we agreed that we wanted to have this baby together.
We agreed that we wanted to have a healthy marriage,
We agreed that we needed to This was it. This
was like the last of the secrets for him. So
he in one way felt really relieved because he was like,
thank God, I don't have to walk around with this

(29:09):
crap anymore. Like our entire relationship, there was some part
of him that he could just push into the corner
and keep to himself and keep as secrets. And that
doesn't feel good. Like that's why our thing is radical transparency,
because that's the way of being in a partnership that's
really fulfilling and really honest and vulnerable is by being
radically transparent. And we didn't have that before then. And

(29:31):
I feel like in in many situations where I hear
about cheating, it's like the cheater always wants to be
caught because then you can go after the real issues
or become like a self fulfilling prophecy in some situations
where I'm not saying a d but I know other
men who cheat like think that they deserve to be alone,
and then they cheat, and then the wife leaves or

(29:51):
partner leaves, and then they're alone, you know, like they
create their own narrative. And you kept kind of like
being like, I see you and why not by But
why like you brought curiosity where most people would shut out.
Why why were you able to bring curiosity? Is it
because you were pregnant? Probably to be honest, yeah, probably

(30:13):
because I was about to birth this child and we
just got married, and like we had already been through
this before, so there was definitely a level of like,
I don't really feel like doing all this again and
breaking up again, and now we're married, and like we're
actually committed. It's now or never if we're going to
do this, let's do this. And honestly, these these issues
are going to come up in our future relationships, right
like wherever you go, there you are. So if I

(30:35):
have these issues with intimacy and I have these traumas,
they're going to come up in the next relationship. And
I don't have to start at square one, and same
for him. We had already dug through so much, we
were so deep in the work. This was the last element.
Let's just get through it together, or at least attempt,
and then if we know we really put our all
into it, we can always say we did our very best.
Did it bring out feelings of unworthiness for you? Did

(30:57):
it make you say like, what's wrong with me? Did
you know that it was his issue? At the time,
I was like, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not skinny enough,
I'm not tall enough, I'm not blond enough, I'm not
whatever the thing is. I It definitely brought up unworthiness
in a way that I had never before felt because
I actually am a super confident person, and in my
mind I was like, he wants something that I'm not

(31:19):
and that came through and that's not at all the case.
But how could my brain not go there? What is
the reality? The reality is that it was a deep
seated insecurity, inability to deal with confrontation, inability to deal
with his own feelings and emotions because he grew up
in a home where they didn't talk about their feelings
and emotions. They just were doers. And his family loved him,

(31:41):
but he never even heard the words. And he would
tell us multiple times after having Kai and Leo, saying
I love you in Hebrew, which is the language he
speaks to our kids, and saying I love you and
Hebrew sounded weird even coming out of his mouth, much
less hearing it being said because he never heard it
growing up. So that just showed and like my parents
were like, I love you fifteen times a day. He

(32:02):
did not get that emotional intimate physically, emotionally, spiritually. He
didn't get that from his family, So how is he
going to give it to me? But the will to
stay during that? Where did that come from? Your mom?
Is that something that you learned or you could mirror?
And your your parents are divorced, right, so you did
you see that? I don't. I think it's the opposite.
I just do opposite of everything my mom does. So,

(32:23):
like she was really bad with money, so I've worked
really hard to heal my relationship with the energy of money.
She burned every bridge from work relationships to friendships too.
It was always the other person. She was in three marriages,
Like it's always the other person. She's um borderline and
I hated that growing up. I hated that we had
to keep leaving schools and my friends and these you know,

(32:46):
little universes and realities we had created. We had to
then get up and leave because mom, you know, something
happened with the boss. And so I'm I think it
was from the opposite instinct of like, this is hard.
This is one of the hardest things I've ever had
to go through. We got through the last stuff. I'm strong.
I can get through anything. And the worst case is
that we put are all into this and that we

(33:08):
both come out of this, Like I did have the
awareness that we would both come out stronger even we
didn't successfully like steak together. I think it's not how
most people think of these things. I think the ego.
I presume that the ego gets really bruised really fast
and that kind of takes away. But you kind of
pushed your ego to the side, and maybe it was

(33:30):
chipping away at yourself worth, but something was pushing you forward,
and it was the Sophie and you. Honestly, yeah, Also
just seeing him down on his knees, being like this
is everything. Like seeing him down on his knees and
seeing him cries seeing the liberation he experienced when I
knew this information, like, thank God, this is all out now.
To see that in his eyes and in his being

(33:52):
was like, I think this is everything. We have to
deal with this mess now to prevent that nothing happens
in the future. But like, this isn't gonna happen again
and ever dead and that was over ten years ago,
was eleven years ago, and nothing has ever happened like
that again. Two questions, Does it feel different when somebody
emotionally cheats versus physically? Because the first one was physical, right,
the second one was emotional. I don't think it feels

(34:13):
any different, Okay. I think that's just important for anybody
who may be emotionally cheated on to here that it's
just as valid or real. I think that sometimes we
don't if an experience isn't like quintessential traumatic, we don't
let ourselves process it. So for anybody who may be
emotionally cheated on or be an emotional cheater, recognizing the
damage that you're doing or the damage that it feels,

(34:35):
just to take a moment to really say that's just
as as huge. Yeah, psychologically it's the same damage. And
if anything, it's for me, I experienced it as equal,
like I don't even like, oh, I guess he didn't
physically do anything, but it felt the exact same in
my body. It's important information after that. I mean, I
know you went to therapy. Was there a period of
time where your trust was not restored? Were you always

(34:59):
checking the emails or his text messages or yeah? So
there was um we had to create very intense boundaries
to recover and to heal. So in the very beginning
for about i'd say a solid year if not to
his behaviors that were unacceptable were pretty much anything under
the sun having to do with anyone from the opposite sex.

(35:19):
So he couldn't connect with his friends that were women.
And he's he's a psych major like all his friends
and the psychology department or women. Right, he has a
sister and a mom he was raised by and with,
and so he's a guy. You know, he's like a
best friend to a lot of women, but he's also
you know, he also had been through all of this
and I needed that to feel safe. So it was
no friendships with women, no going out to barrows with

(35:41):
his guy friends and drinking because sometimes when he cheated.
The first time it was when he was had a
drink or two. Even though he had never had a
problem with alcohol. I just didn't feel like him getting
intoxicated without me. There was a smart idea. He wasn't
allowed to watch porn alone. He wasn't allowed to like
like actually anything under the other and and and the

(36:02):
communication was the most important thing. So if he messed
up and he went on this work trip and there
was porn on the thing and he pressed it for
a second, even like soft porn, anything that felt unsafe,
he had to tell me that. And that's where we
started to build our trust. Was in the hey, I
drove by this billboard and I looked at it for
longer than to split second, and it made me feel this,
which is really uncomfortable when you don't have those right.

(36:25):
And so that was how I started to understand the
inner mechanisms of his brain. And that allowed me, even
though it hurt every time I received that information. Like
he then later was a professor at U c l A.
He was teaching women that were like eighteen through twenty
undergrad at U c l A. Like some of the
hottest girls, right, And I'm like Hey, so how that

(36:45):
go today? Like were there any women that made me
feel anything? And so he has to go through that,
and like both of us, is hard for him to
express it. It was hard for me to receive it.
But even though I felt that vulnerability hangover from him,
and as a result of that vulnerability, for a couple
of days, it always made me feel like I understood
him better. And then eventually it wasn't that hard. Now
I can both of us gonna be like I can

(37:06):
go to Starbucks and be like, hey, I saw this girl.
She was hot, and he's like really, and then like
it's like such a positive, fun, playful thing for us.
But then it was just like like a knife to
the heart over and over again because it was threatening
and you weren't getting to the real rooted issues, Like
now you know the inner workings of all he let
you in. He let you into the deepest, most fearful places,

(37:28):
and then you could support him. But I think that
most people that oftentimes it shouldn't say most people, when
people recover from something like this, Like at first, when
when you told me that like he had to report
back to you, I was like, how is that going
to end? Well? Like, that's gonna be like shackles, but
that's not what it was, because it was that paired
with the work. Yes, So the idea behind it is

(37:51):
that those like inner circle behaviors, which are like these
are things that are just not allowed. You're not a
low to cheat, you're not allowed to do this, and
along with obviously like you're not going to heat on me,
you're not going to talk to other women, Like we
listed everything out so it was crystal clear, so that
our boundaries were vocalized for the first time in our life.
And then there were middle circle behaviors that were like
we need to talk about if this is okay, and

(38:12):
then they were like outer circle behaviors. Eventually, after just
even a couple of months, the inner circle list began
being chipped away at because I'm like, I don't care
if you hang out with your friend and study, I
don't care if you go teach, and like there's hot women,
they're like, that's nutlets life. But in the beginning I
was so wounded and so like we talked about, I
felt disgusting. I felt like there was something wrong with me,

(38:35):
So why would I want him around other women? So
it was just like a matter of letting time passed.
You can't speed up the recovery process. I had to
allow time to pass. I couldn't rush the healing process.
The boundaries, you know, the list of things that were
not allowed quickly became a short list of what was
not allowed. And that was the hope always. We both
don't want to live in shackles. We both want to

(38:55):
find freedom. He was helping me find freedom and my
sensuality and sexuality in so many ways. And I was
helping him to get to the actual root of these
issues so that he doesn't have them anymore. And now
he doesn't. And it took a while, but the initial
it's kind of like if your child does something really, really,
really bad and just out of control, Yeah, you're gonna

(39:16):
put them in the room for like all day and
I'm gonna put them in their room all day long.
It's going to be a big punishment. They're gonna have
no screens for a month, right if they do something
really bad. Eventually it starts to dow it away. The
person learns, the child learns, and you have a new
trust that's formed. And that's what we needed to build,
was trust and real trust based on like a very

(39:36):
strong foundation, But how do you build trust on when
there is no foundation and when the sky is no
longer blue because your reality is completely shaken. You have
to start at square one. And so that's what we did.
We started at square one. And no, I don't ever
want to be the type of person like cracks the
whip and says like you're not allowed to look at girls.
That's not the human that I am. But given my pain,
on top of the cheating, the betrayal, the lies, and

(40:00):
now my universe and perspective being completely flipped upside down,
I needed to start at square one. We needed to
start with the A b cs of a relationship. And
in many ways it was for the first time because
most people are not like, here are the tools to
a successful relationship right when they find each other. But
then on top of not having the tools, on top
of not knowing how to communicate, we also had all
this pain that we were healing from and you're growing

(40:22):
a baby inside of you. So so I think that
a lot of people really struggle because it gets messy
when you need help. So you know, your family, your
friends now are all involved and they know what he
did was that a hard part for you? Like were
they unforgiving? Were they telling you not to work on it? Actually,
because I was so transparent and because I was so honest,

(40:46):
instead of them finding out after the fact, like they
were kind of part of the journey, and I would
go to them and I would say, you know, this
is what's going on. And he just left this meeting
and this is what he said. I had them along
for the ride instead of rising them with a big
information thing like before they solve the effort that he
was making. He was going to meetings every single day.

(41:08):
He was meeting with different types of you know, healers,
he was meeting with coaches, he was doing his own practice.
He was doing the work. And that's that's all anyone
wanted to see. They just wanted to see, you know.
And I have friends who are going through like they
almost went through a divorce right now during quarantine and
like now they found each other again, and like all
I want to see. There's no judgment. I'm not like
he's a bad guy because he started using again and

(41:30):
he's cheating on you know, he's a human being who
is flawed just like all of us. But is he
doing the work. Is he showing up to himself? Where's
the accountability? How are we going to measure this growth?
And that's what they said, with like obviously different words
because we were young then and they didn't even know
what we were dealing with here. But my friends and
family were really supportive also because I was so open

(41:52):
and public about it this time around. I think it
was a couple of years after that final kind of
discovery with the cheating online, and I started to write
for publications like Women's Health and different things talking about
it because nobody talks about this. And when I was
suffering and I was like hysterical finding all this stuff,
there was nothing out there that I as a resource saying,

(42:15):
here are the steps to take to recover, and there
is hope. So a d and I want to offer
hope to people that no matter what thing we're talking about,
he's been through crazy addiction to to meth, to meth
that's like one of those drugs like heroine, Like in
my brain, like you smoked meth? Like are you? And
like who is he is? Like this amazing, dynamic human

(42:38):
being who now saves people's lives on the daily and
can communicate and translate their own language of healing because
he's been through that experience, and yes, he cheated on me.
I actually chooted on him a few years ago. And
the way that we're handling it and the way that
we heal and then offer our true story for others
to learn from and grow from and have hope for

(43:00):
is everything. Like we don't have to share this ship.
We don't have to share it with anyone else. We're
not getting anything out of this. People love to be
trolls online. People say like, oh, she's so stupid, like yah,
who picked up an article on me? And like who
is this fucking idiot? Like he's just cheat on you again?
Like just like trolls, right, just people that are well,
not yes, trolls, of course, but their own projected pain

(43:23):
of what happened to them, right, because they still assumptions,
but they stayed in a situation where they maybe thought
things could get better or glazed over it, and they
didn't do the work that you did that is so
far under the surface. I mean, as your friend, somebody
that's followed you for years, I knew that you had

(43:43):
been through all this stuff, but I did not know
what was below the Iceberg. I knew that you know,
A D had sex addiction and drug addiction, and I
know that you were there and he cheated and you
worked through it, But I didn't know the inner work
that you guys did together, And that's what's not shown. Right.
We might know that people get back together after they cheat,
but you didn't brush it under the rug. You didn't

(44:05):
let it go because I'm having a baby. It was like,
We're gonna go through it all and get through the
weeds of the exactly. And like when I think about
when we got married, I mean talk about not being glamorous.
When we got married, we were not having sex. We
were working with his therapist and he was on a
you know the same way you would detox from alcohol
or a drug. Like he was clean from sex. So

(44:26):
that meant he was not masturbating. He was not having
sex with me. Like our wedding night, we were like
good night, beautiful, to night swear. Then then my entire pregnancy,
we were in it because I got pregnant one year later,
and then it was like that was when the final
shoe dropped and we were like, Okay, here we go.
And so I'm nine months of the entire pregnancy. We

(44:47):
weren't having sex, talk about not having like that all
of those feelings returned and like I'm gaining weight, I'm
like not comfortable my body. My husband doesn't want to
be sexual with me. Now he didn't not want to
be sexual with me. He was prescrawed. I have this
plan of like, you need to be sober right now,
and it's hard not to take it personally because it
is like, don't you want to be internet with me?

(45:08):
And he's like yeah, but I'm trying to heal here,
you know, And so it's like me supporting him while
trying to grow, and like that's what it's always been
with us, is like you said that underlying work and
effort and yeah, we didn't cheat on ourselves on our
wedding night and say, let's just write like we weren't,
like screw it, let's just have one crazy, wild night
because we knew that we would deter all the progress

(45:30):
that he had need Let's do it right this time,
but like right in the world of Sophie and a
d which is not right in the world of what
you're supposed to do. So I just feel like the
two of you stay so plugged into your own individual
connected needs that what you're supposed to do doesn't even
throw you off. Like not having sex on your wedding

(45:50):
night might be a like a big red flag to
somebody who thinks, well, we didn't even have sex on
our wedding night, what does that mean for my future?
But like somehow, you don't run away with the story.
You stay present and you stay connected. We did gloss
over the fact that you cheated on a D. So
it was that emotional or physical? You did class over
that one. I will say true, Balad, it was physical.

(46:12):
It was something that happened on New Year's seven years so,
I don't know five years ago or something. I was
highly intoxicated. The man that I cheated on him with
was ae year old model and we were at the
Peteete Hotel in Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, and I was
again highly intoxicated. A D and I were having some

(46:32):
really rough times. We had two kids. We were living
in the valley, like far outside the city. I was
resentful for all the work he was doing. I was
resentful for him not being home, and I was I
was creating attention. So I already had kind of been
emotionally cheating on him with this director and was just
like wanting attention. I liked the attention I was getting,

(46:53):
and he went to bed. I went up to the
rooftop with my girlfriend and I was just like being
ridique kill us with this guy, like just talking to him,
like giving him ship for something. And he was dead sober,
and I felt really bad because I really was putting
him down and kind of being an asshole, and so
I like put on my pajamas when we got to

(47:13):
I'm like, I can't. I was again, I was like
on all these things, so it did in my mind
it sounded so bad, like who cares about this complete stranger?
But to me, I'm like, oh my god, Like I
feel so bad. I'm gonna go apologize. She's like, really,
my girlfriend, I'm like, yeah, I just gotta go. She's like,
how are you going to find him? At three in
the morning, I'm like, I'm gonna find him. I walk
outside my door three in the morning and I hear

(47:33):
him and his dad talking in their hotel room, which
happened to be two doors down, and I heard their
voices as if I had a glass up to the
door to the hallway. We happened to be on the
same hotel room floor. He happened to be two rooms away,
and I just happened to hear him through the doorway,
and so I like went up to the doorway and

(47:54):
knocked on the door and he answers the door. His
dad actually answered the door, and I apologized to him,
and I have apologized to the boy, and I'm still
very intoxicated, and so he's like, oh, no problem, water
on the under the bridge, blah blah blah. And he's like, Dad,
I'm gonna go like meet this girl upstairs or something.
He said something I don't even remember. He was gonna
go do something. And so he's like, here, walk with me,
and so we start walking up the stairway up to

(48:16):
the rooftop. Again. I'm just like, I'm so sorry, blah
blah blah. I was way out of line and just
like in my own universe. And all of a sudden,
we're standing in front of the bathrooms and this place
is like this repetite. I don't know if you've ever
been there, but it's like owned by burning and people.
So it's very like ethereal and beautiful and like perfect
for like the substances I was on. And he opens
the door to the bathroom and he's like, I want

(48:37):
to show you something and I go inside and he
locks the door and starts having sex with me, and
I'm like, I should go get my husband. I said
that out loud, and like I should go get my husband.
I'm a he'd be cool with this. Let me just
go get him. And he's like having sex with me
against the wall, and I'm like, he's sober. I'm on
a lot of things. He's very aware. I'm on a
lot of things, and he definitely took advantage of me. Um.

(49:00):
Some of my girlfriends are like, he raped you. I
don't agree with that. I think that I, on many
levels wanted that and I never had a one night stand,
and they're there are parts of me that were like, yeah, man,
A d has done this before. It was like there
was no time in space. And I was like, hey,
he's done this to me, It's my turn. And I
went upstairs to the hotel room. It lasted two seconds

(49:22):
and I went up to my hotel room and I
woke a D up and I told him the truth.
I told him immediately immediately woke him up told him
right in front of my best friend, and she was
just like she had me, you know, she had me
in this place in her life where I was just
like up on this unrealistic pedicel and like that was
the beginning of another layer of deep, deep work for us.

(49:43):
And I knew in the moment. I said to him,
this is going to be so good for us, and
he was just like, don't I'm not ready for that
Sophie ship right now, like you know, and he went
off to go find the guy and like beat him
up or whatever he was gonna do. And it's not
about the guy. It's not about the guy, not about
what up in. It was about us. I've heard you
actually say that the cheating was part your cheating or

(50:05):
whatever that was. It kind of doesn't even really fit
that bill now that I hear the story. But it
was part of your healing, like you had to do
that or maybe you know, And I've heard a d
say that like he kind of needed you to do
that to feel the other side. Yeah, I'm like breathing
deep into that because it's so real. And I don't

(50:26):
recommend you go out and cheat on your partner if
you've been through this before. But at the same time, Yo,
this healed us. It even the playing field, the yin
and yang, everything became more imbalanced. He had more respect
for me. In many ways, I had more respect for him.
I was such a judgment a little bit about it,
Like I'd be like, how do you just have stetch
with someone you don't love? That's so disgusting? Like and

(50:49):
even to my girlfriends, I was so possessed by this judgment.
And it's just because I had never experienced it. And
when you haven't experienced something, it's really easy to judge
from afar. And you come in with these, like you
said in the beginning, these ideas of what's good and bad,
and you know, obviously some things are just bad and
you how could you do that? That makes you a

(51:11):
bad person? And you guys have really like used these
quote unquote bad things to break through parts of yourself
that like would have never been found and seen in
the other So it's and also you could have just
tucked this all the way and shown up on the
internet as the you know, I think at first glance,
if people don't read your content or really get to

(51:34):
know Ignited and your work, they see you as like, oh,
she's so perfect with her yoga body and her perfect
three kids and husband. But like I was always drawn
to you because in real life, like you're talking about
the substances that you use and whether it's alcohol or
a drug, and not in a way yes, thank you,
thank you, not in an unbalanced way a place where

(51:55):
I'm concerned with your usage. But you're not trying to
be anything that you're not, and the two of you
are not trying and therefore, I mean, you give your
life to talking about this, you know, with doing the
couple's retreats and getting people to really talk about these
parts of them. So why do you think that most
people resist doing this work and stay unhappily married. Do

(52:16):
you have thoughts about that? Yeah, I don't think that
people want to look at these parts to themselves. I
don't think that they're used to it. I don't think
it's fun being uncomfortable for most people. It doesn't matter
that at the end of it all, you're gonna have
a healthy relationship. It's like the motivation and the internal
drive that it takes to really show up and do
this hard work and like it's sticky. It's like honestly

(52:36):
a lot easier to go into a gym and lift
weights than it is to look at the darkest parts
of who you are and your reactions and your responses
and how you've shown up in your life and how
you need to change. It's not easy to change. It's uncomfortable,
and so people shy away from it because it's uncomfortable
and it's vulnerable, and you're letting someone in. Like, relationships
are the greatest mirror for us, and he was mirroring

(52:58):
to me my biggest issue is in my shadows. And
I'm like, hey, don't look there, and then he's like,
I'll show you mine if I show you, if you
show me yours, And I'm like, I don't even want
to see that. Like it's just like so much. But
once you start doing it, their rewards. I mean, we
have such an amazing relationship now and in the last
i'd say five years is really when we started to

(53:21):
just flourish and find our footing. And it's like, once
you do the work, it's kind of like you do
the work on your body and like, you know, you're
into food stuff too, and you help you coach people.
A lot of times that I remember when I used
to coach people on food stuff. They'd be like, oh,
the scales not Gina, I'm not dropping wait, I can't
fit into my pants whatever that milestone is for them.

(53:41):
And I'm like, if you just stop focusing on that
the inval and you just focus on the experience that
is the work is showing up every day and it
just becomes an integrated part to your life. You're gonna
wake up one day and be where you want to be.
But you can't be only looking at the end goal.
Just like a d works with his clients and they
say like, when can I start drinking again? He's like,

(54:01):
the minute you stop asking me when you can start
drinking again. The minute you stop asking is when you
can drink again. Like for me, like, the reason we
show that we drink and party and whatever is because
that's not our life. Our life is not looking forward
to the drinks at the end of the day. It's
a very small part where I'm like, sure, I'll like
let go a little bit with you and getting the
hot tub and have a drink, Like sure, why not.

(54:22):
But it's normalizing being a mom. I do these things
so that other people feel like less taboo about it.
I don't care about drinking. I could go four months
without having a single drink or even thinking about it.
But I try and bring these darker moments and these
darker things and substances and things to the forefront, whether
it be sex, drugs, alcohol fighting, doing the work, going

(54:45):
to therapy, Like I like talking about that stuff openly
because I have a platform and I don't want people
to walk away feeling like things are perfect over here.
I want them to feel normalized, where it's okay to
have a cocktail at five pm on a Tuesday. It
just is, as long as you're not covering something up
and running from your life. Right. So it's like the
same behaviors most of the time. They could be an escape,

(55:05):
but if they're they're not an escape because you're doing
the work every single day. Like people need to understand that.
And I think so many people get bogged down with
doing the work, either themselves or with a partner, that
they're stuck in the work. Like you need to take
a break from the work too, to come up for
air in whatever that looks like for you. You're not
gonna that benefit. And we and I look forward to

(55:29):
things I like the three times a year my husband
and I like take in D m A with our
friends and like stay at a hotel, and like I
look forward to that because I get to be a
kid again. I get to heal, I get to grow,
I get to dance, like ask naked in front of
my friends and be like I'm just me and strip
away all those layers and like be silly and play

(55:50):
around and have deep conversations Like I don't want to
do that every weekend. That's exhausting. However, it's like the
pendulum has to swing and I need to find the
balance for myself where I get to I'm I hold
so many balls in the air, as we talked about,
sometimes I need to let them all go. And for me,
that's what those practices are, and that's instead of only
looking forward to that one thing every three months, I

(56:12):
can have a spiked kombucha on a Tuesday night and
feel good about it because I've had a long day
where I'm showing up to my life in this real
way and in this intense capacity where it's oh, what
was that? Look? Are you upset? Are you met? Are
you like talking through everything and then showing up for
our podcast vulnerably and sharing stories like this where it's
like I'm honored that I get to share my path.

(56:35):
But it's not like there's no expense to me. It's
not like I just have unlimited get like givings of this.
And you know what sponsored post. It's like for every
sponsored post, and I'm putting my heart into I then
want to make up to it to my following by
giving another organ It's like double the work and I'm
happy to do that. I'm here for it, and I

(56:56):
need to take care of myself and let myself just
let go and be silly and smoke a joint with
friends or whatever. Your medicine is, right, and every substance
can be a medicine and it can be a poison.
And it's an opportunity to check in with yourself and say,
what is my intention with the substance. Have I not
really been breathing much? Because sometimes when I smoke weed,

(57:17):
even to the act of smoking, and I don't even
really inhale, right, but the act of just the deep
inhalation is all I really am craving, you know, And
so sometimes I'm like, you know what, but I don't
really want to be high. Okay, I'll smoke my CDD
pen Like, what am I craving here? What am I needing?
And what is the intention behind it? Is it too?

(57:37):
And there's no judgment to people that drink alone. But
I don't drink alone because I'm not drinking to get drunk.
I'm drinking to connect, be silly with friends, feel like
that feeling, to create an ambiance, to create an energetic
field where we're all the same wavelength. That's what you
can create with a substance. If if you're all over
the place and you're just doing this all the time,
and you're doing it to distract yourself, then you're not

(57:59):
present to the most then. But if you're doing it
to create an experience and a container, it can be
the most healing, beautiful afternoon, evening, whatever it is. Again,
it's not about the substance. It's about like, what is
my intention? What do I want out of this experience? Yes,
it can be scary to do the work, but how
beautiful to have that person that has your back and
has seen you through everything. They know every nuance to

(58:21):
you and they're like, maybe you shouldn't do that thing.
I don't know if that's like in your greatest alignment
for today and like, okay, I respect that you're right
or no, I'm doing this thing. And that's the radical
transparency though, that's built into it, because otherwise it's like
you're policing them and then they get offensive or their
ego jumps in or or you don't make maybe they don't.
Even a male might feel like you're taking away their masculinity.

(58:43):
But because of that radical transparency that's built into years
of work and daily work that you continue to do,
it's really clear. If you say maybe you should take
a break from drinking, he knows that it's for your
best interests and he can actually see a mirror of
himself instead of feeling like he's being attacked. So that
is beautiful. And it takes time. It takes time. I

(59:05):
was gonna say, still aft, like we've been at this
a long time. I still and sometimes that like judgment
until kind of bitchy, like I come at at it
from the wrong angle or I'm not using my tools
or I'm not I'm like I'm tired, I don't feel
like saying it the right way, you know, and so
like I get become a little like that little girl
where I'm just like, why do you do that? Or
that makes me matter instead of just like when you

(59:26):
do that, it makes me feel blah blah blah, and
like sometimes I don't want to use those things and
I get sloppy because we're humans. But it's a matter
of just showing up and doing the best we can
every single day to hold ourselves to that place, and
also letting go and just hanging out sometimes and figuring
out the ways that you can let go and unlined
and um that are true for you in this moment

(59:47):
in time. Well, you have given us so much. I'm
gonna wrap up with three really fun questions. First question
is what is the favorite Philosophy product? So we didn't
even get into your whole super food lined philosophy, I'll
link it below, But what is your favorite product that
you make? And obviously, if you haven't gotten Sophie's integrity here,
everything she does is a hundred and fifty. So these

(01:00:08):
products are amazing, no fillers, no additives, just pure magic.
Thank you. Yeah, I made that. I started this product
line about ten years ago, crazy and yeah, I mean
it's always so hard to pick because I designed all
of them. And created them all, so there's a there's
a purpose behind them, and and it's for myself. It's
a very selfish thing. So I started with the Green

(01:00:29):
Dream one and then moved on to the Cacal Magic
and then the very Bliss as like the main three products.
And the thing I love about those powders is that
you can add them to anything and there's no sugar
or stevia and them, so you could use them to
make a dish savory or sweet. So because I've been
doing this for so long now, as much as I
love a smoothie, they obviously energized me in a way

(01:00:49):
nothing else can. I like figuring out creative ways to
use the super foods that you wouldn't think of. So
adding the Green Dream, for example, to pesto, it's like
makes the pest so infinitely better. And like you think
when you add something with like spirolina and himp powder
and stuff, it would just be like, oh, not great,
but it makes it taste better and I can feel

(01:01:11):
like the nutritional benefit. And like last night we added
the berry by honey to our salmon and it was
infinitely better. Now I'm addicted to this way of making salmon.
It's just like finding creative ways to use the superfoods
is just like where I'm at now. It's just like
we're what are ways that I could add this to
something and sprinkle this to something and actually make this

(01:01:31):
flavor taste better. Well, we're going to link those below
creativity and adding an abundance and nutrients on a cellular level. Okay,
do you think that everything happens for a reason? Feel
free to go yes, no, or expand yes. And last question,
if you were a tree, what type of tree would
you be? Probably Jacaranda. The purple leaves I'm gonna favorite. Yeah.

(01:01:55):
They come right around Noah's birthday and which is in June,
but it's kind of like a June like my birthday,
No's birthday. They cover Los Angeles. There are purple blossoms
that then fall as the season ends, all over your car.
So it's just like this purple rain and snow all
over the place, and it's so beautiful and it makes
me so happy. And whenever it's chalker on this season,

(01:02:17):
I'm like I need to go on to walk outside
every single day and see what's going on, and just
it just makes me happy. So it makes you able
to sprinkle, yeah, sprinkle love and that happiness all over
everyone and just remind them that is so Sophie. So
it's very clear why you make the perfect guest for
the truthious life. And I want to thank you for
being a guest and being here. I love you, I

(01:02:39):
support you, I see you, and to you. And for
anyone that wants to come over and say hello, I'm
at Sophie dot jaffee on Instagram and the philosophy dot
com spelled with my name philosophy dot com to come
check out all of the yummy products. We will be
linking and tagging you and making sure everybody heads over there.
Thanks Sophie, thank you,