Is My Vagina Normal?!? ft. Dr. Jolene Brighten

Dr. Jolene Brighten is a board-certified naturopathic endocrinologist, clinical sexologist, and prominent leader in women’s medicine. Most importantly, she’s a FIERCE advocate for patients dedicating her life to uncovering the root cause of imbalances. You’ll leave this episode empowered, more connected to your body, and proud of a lot of the things you thought were “not normal.” Her latest book, “Is it Normal?” is out now! 

 

In this episode, Dr. Jolene Brighten spills:

• Painful Periods are not just “lady problems” – the common reasons why and practical solutions 
• Dietary solutions to hormonal imbalances

• Does penis or vagina size matters the way we think it does?
• Why the best sex of your life might be POST-childbirth
• Vaginal odors: the surprising cause, and what is considered normal vs. problematic
• What's considered normal “sex drive”
• Why not all women want sex to last long
• Douching: its damaging effects (psychologically and physically) and why some populations are still doing it

 

Get Dr. Brighten’s new book: https://mybook.to/isthisnormal

 

Instagram:

The Truthiest Life on Instagram @thetruthiestlife

Host @lisahayim

 

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Edited by Houston Tilley

Intro Jingle by Alyssa Chase aka @findyoursails

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I know, Feoye, even when times geththeart and you feel
you're in the Arcucy, just how beautiful life can be
when you soph in your heart, you can finally star

(00:27):
to your true seious life. Hello everybody, Welcome back to
the truthius life. This episode coming up is so fun, exciting, educational,
and empowering. It's with doctor Juliane Brighton, who I've followed
on Instagram for a long time and I absolutely love
her zest, her candor, and the way that she educates

(00:47):
and empowers. She's a board certified natural pathic endocrinologist, clinical sexologist,
and prominent leader in women's medicine. She is a fierce
advocate for patients, dedicating her life to uncovering the root
of imbalances. Her new book, Is It Normal is out
now and I'm going to link that below. The best
thing that we can do to support experts and authors

(01:09):
is to buy their book and support them. So if
you're at all intrigued by this conversation, if it's just
like scratching the surface of more information that you want,
please buy it, give it to friends and family. Because
the truth of the matter is, we are so out
of touch with our bodies when it comes to its anatomy,
what things should look like, when it comes to our physiology,

(01:30):
how it should function, and when it comes to what
it should all feel like, especially when it comes to
our woman's stuff and our sexuality as well. So much
of what we just call our lady problems right, are
not problems that need to be problems. They are actually
things that are easily solvable. She gets into that and
more in this episode, sharing easy dietary solutions to painful periods,

(01:53):
answering questions like does the penis or vagina size matter
the way we think that we do. We talk about
aginal odors, the surprise cause, what's considered problematic verse normal,
what's considered a normal sex drive, why not all women
want sex to actually last as long as we think.
We talk about douching, it's damaging effects psychologically and physically,

(02:13):
and why some populations are still doing it and at risk.
And most importantly, we talk about all the things in
our head that we're either googling shamefully or live in
our head rent free, causing us to feel shame and
disconnection to our own bodies. If there's a question that
you've had about your body, the way it looks, the
way it feels, the way it smells. When it comes
to hormonal things or sex, we probably get into it

(02:36):
in this episode, and if we don't, she probably gets
into it in her book or her social media. I
love this episode because the second we signed on and
the videos turned on, I could feel her energy. She's
a radiant woman living her most authentic, vibrant life. When
it comes to her professionality, her sex life, that's an assumption,
but you could just feel a lot of energy radiating

(02:56):
off of her. And there's nothing I love more than
when an expert walks the walk, and you can certainly
feel that with Doctor Brighton again. I'm going to link
her book below. You're going to absolutely fall in love
with her, her humor, the way she has so much
information and puts it out so simply. And if you
love this episode, please go ahead and share it with
your friends and your family. The more we feel normal

(03:17):
in our bodies, the more empowered we can be to
live freely within them and be our most authentic self
and of course have some pleasure with that along the way.
It doesn't have to be all hard being a woman.
It can be absolutely delicious amazing and pleasurable. Today we
have doctor Joline Brighton on the podcast, and doctor Brighton

(03:38):
is author of the new book Is This Normal, And
I've had a chance to go through it, and it
is truly incredible and exactly what I think every woman needs.
On the cover, you call it a non judgmental guide
to creating hormone balance, eliminating unwanted symptoms, and building the
sexual desire that you crave. And we're on video today

(04:01):
and I could feel your energy and I don't mean
just like positive, which it is, but I mean like
it feels bountiful, and that is really rare for a
woman these days, a mother, wife to be so bright.
I know Bright's in your name, but that's the word
that just keeps coming up for me. Well, thank you
so much, and I'm really excited to be here, and

(04:21):
I really appreciate all those compliments, because when you are
just days away from your book coming out in the world,
you are doing lots and lots of things to make
sure that everyone knows about it. And I feel actually
really tired today, so I'll take all those compliments. You
do not look tired, and you know you must just
be very excited about what you're about to put in
the world. I love how this book starts with sex,

(04:44):
and not just sex ed, but like you say in
your title, the sexual desire that you crave. And I
think that's what kind of like wakes people up when
they see this book, because the fact is most of
us are not out here living our most empowered sexual lives,
and there are a lot of real obstacles to get

(05:06):
there physically, emotionally, and even intellectually. There's so much to unpack,
and your book, I think, really breaks that down in
a way that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable for asking
is this normal? Yeah? You know, it's so interesting. When
I set out to write the book, I thought, you know,
we're gonna talk about hormones, We're going to talk about

(05:27):
all these things, but we're gonna have one chapter on sex.
And when I went through all the years of questions
that I got, there were so many questions about sex
that need It so apparent to me that like, we've
got to back this whole conversation up. We got to
answer the questions about like what is normal about sex,
but we also need to talk about like what's normal
for your bulva, what's normal for your vagina is what

(05:49):
is the clitterists and have these conversations that we've really
been failing to have in medicine, in society, in our
health ed classes, like we just have a big knowledge gap.
And I really set out to help people bridge the
knowledge with what their normal is and understanding that you're

(06:10):
not going to be just like everybody else. You know,
but that doesn't make you abnormal. Great and so well put.
And I think when we talk about like hormones, we
think about like seventh grade, right, and the different changes
that our bodies are going through, whether it's discharge or
periods or just like learning what sex is. But I'm
in my mid thirties now and I've gone through a pregnancy,

(06:34):
a pregnancy, loss, birth one time, you know, and I
am just amazed at each of those phases, how much
uncertainty there is from getting pregnant to am I pregnant?
To I'm pregnant? But is this normal? You know? What?
What can I expect to I'm in labor? Is this normal?
To after that? And then rebalancing, like there's so much google.

(07:00):
I do a lot of googling. I'm an empowered I
consider myself empowered and in touch with my body, and
yet Google is my best friend when it comes to
all of these topics. And it shouldn't be like we
should know what our clip looks like, what it doesn't
look like, how it works, all of that, and your
book does a great job of doing that. So I
think in today, i'd really love to cover a lot

(07:21):
of the sex questions, a lot of the hormonal questions
quote unquote lady problems as we say in your book,
and then answer some questions from my audience who very
bravely asked some honest questions here. Yeah, and love to
get your feedback about is it normal? So let's start
with hormones and then move I think into the sex stuff.

(07:44):
Starting with lady problems, you say that they aren't necessarily
normal and that they're even treatable, and that being said,
when people go to the doctor, they're usually dismissed. This
is how it is. It's going to be like this
for a while. When did you wake up to the
fact that it doesn't have to be like this and
we can make this a more pleasant experience to go

(08:07):
through as a woman. So my background is in nutrition
as well, and you know, we learned so much about
what nutrients can do in the body and how they
can help with tissue healing and all these things. And
it was really through bridging that knowledge and then as
I got educated in medical school about like what gods
is what, like what is actually going on here? What's

(08:29):
the path of physiology? And things like painful periods, we're
told like that's normal. We're told PMS is normal. We're
told a lot of things that are common experiences are normal.
But just because it's common doesn't make it normal. And
you know, there's that one side of the spectrum of
like you get your period, it's like, m welcome to womanhood.

(08:50):
It sucks, like you know, make sure you have your
pads on hand. And you know, however that conversation went
for you. Now we've got the other side of the conversation,
which I find very interesting on social media, which is
like these other extremes of normalizing not normal things. So,
for example, the idea that a period should be non

(09:15):
existent unless you're detoxing. I see this a lot in
vegan communities. I don't know why this is like the
rhetoric that plays out there. And I'm not bashing on vegans,
but this is where I'll see vegan accounts saying you
get your period because your body has to detoxify and
if you like are not toxic, you'll stop bleeding and

(09:37):
that's normal. And I'm like, no, it's not. Yeah, I'm like,
that's a sign that you are in such a stressful
state generally from if it's because of a vegan diet
of a chloric deficit, that your body is interpreting famine
and is interpreting this is not safe and combatible with life.
We've got to shift everything in an adaptation for survival

(09:58):
to be about survival horm and you lose your period
and that's what's going on. It's functional hypothalamic amenorrhea. I
talk about this in the book. So we see these
one extremes of like oh, like you know, bleeding for
like ten days and like having to like bring changes
of clothes with you to school, like that's normal. You know,
having to pop mid all, like you know every time

(10:19):
you get your period, that's normal. And then we've got
the other side of things where it's like if you
ever see like brown discharge after your period, like something's
wrong with you, and in fact, no, that's actually normal.
It's just oxidized blood. It's a very normal, common experience.
And so you know, in the book, it's like, I
wanted to talk about ways to address your period problems,

(10:41):
your menstrual stricle problems, your perimenopuzzle, hormone problems, what's normal,
what's not, what you can do about it, and also
take on a lot of these myths that are born
out of the fact that we don't receive adequate education
about our body. Myths as silly as like if i
get into the ocean on my period, like I'm not
going to attract sharks, and people laugh about that. Would

(11:05):
like people there are people running this fear in the
back of their minds that like this is something. I mean,
I'm legitimately afraid of sharks. Every time I love to snorkel,
and every time I'm out there, I'm like doing a
three sixty spin, like can as if I'm actually going
to see a predator sneaking up on me. But I'm
still doing it. But the period is not one of
the things you have to be afraid of. Shark week

(11:27):
is sensational, but they lie. They're like they will smell
a drop of blood and it will bring a frenzy
upon you. When have you seen like women dies because
she was in the ocean on her period, like shark attack,
Like that's not what's going on that. I mean, there's
just so many myths out there, right, You're right, there
is a lot, and there's so much like subconsciously ingrained,

(11:49):
like even that one that I wouldn't have even brought
to my consciousness if you didn't even like bring up
you know, because it's those unique situations and where you're
in them and again are disconnected to body, fearful of
it and dealing with all these things that you know
men don't. So what are some things that women can
do to alleviate common period problems? In the book, I

(12:13):
have a chapter on periods like chess periods, just everything
you experienced from periods, from like feeling like you have
period fluid to having painful periods to having period poops,
like all of these things and why do they happen?
And then there's a chapter all about the menstrual cycle
because often people get PMS and periods confused and they'll say, like, oh,
my PMS and thumbs like having cramping and really heavy bleeding.

(12:37):
Well PMS is pre menstrual, so it's before you get
your period. And so I break it down in the
book like all of these things that happen during your
cycle that are also problematic or also lovely, Like I
talk through how each phase of your cycle impacts your
sexual health. So in the book, I give lots of

(12:57):
tips and resources. So there's an appendix that has you
it's your cycle Symptom Relief Chart, where if you're experiencing acne,
or you're experiencing these painful periods, or you have headaches, migraines,
you're going to get nutrition, lifestyle and supplementation recommendations. And
really that is to help you have a much more

(13:18):
impactful experience in terms of employing these. Then you know,
the one off of like, oh, just trying to change
into my diet and try to change things something that
is incredibly powerful in terms of the dietary change that
I do talk about in the book and shifting your
diet away from the standard American high omega sixth diet
and getting more omega three fatty acids in. And the

(13:40):
reason for that is that there are these horribone like
chemicals called prostaglandins that produced an inflammatory effect and they
cause the contraction of your uterus. So is it normal
to poop during your period? Yeah, that can happen if
you're having significant diarrhea and cramps though. That's those prostagland

(14:00):
and more Omega three fatty acids make them do their job,
but not so crazy doing their job, like you go,
like childbirth, that's the other time they come up. There
was something I saw actually on Instagram where someone was like,
do you think Beyonce pooped? Well, she had her like
you know, baby blew what I think they do? Think
that happened as if like just because you're a celebrity,

(14:20):
like you don't have a rectum and poop, Like I
don't understand that. But I'm like I commented and said,
yes she did. Everybody does. Everybody does. And if your
nurse or your midwife or doctor told you you didn't,
bless them for making you feel better. But they lie
because prostaglandins are very, very excitable chemicals and they are

(14:40):
in there causing the contraction of the uters and they
also cause the contraction of the bowels. So it is
normal to poop in labor. I know there's also a
lot of pressure going on down there. So it is
normal to poop during labor, is normal to poop in
early labor as the prostagland and spike. It is normal
to feel like you need to poop more on your period.

(15:00):
But when it comes to the period, if it is diarrhea,
if it is cramping, that's really painful. If it is
like I gotta stay by the bathroom all the time,
that is not normal, and that's a good sign that
like we need to make those shifts in our diet.
And I'd also stay including more magnesium. What does it
magnesium do? But that can also help with think like

(15:22):
getting more avocados in like that, like if you hate avocados,
I'd like to know about you, because I have not
met people who hate avocados. But great source of magnesium,
and that's going to help you with those prostaglands. It
also helps with headaches, it helps with sleep, It's going
to help a lot with these hormonal related pms and
period symptoms we experience. And I'll also just mentioned, and

(15:44):
I have before on this podcast before that I did,
in fact poop during my birth. Yeah. I think my
husband then stepped in it because it was a chaotic
situation going on. But I love this. I bring it
up and I say it like kind of jokingly, but
the truth of why I'm saying it is because it
was one of my greatest fears, like growing up learning
that a woman could poop during labor, knowing that my

(16:05):
partner would be there. I was like, well, I don't
want to go into labor then, because that is mortifying.
I will die if somebody sees me poop. Like and
on the other side of this, like it doesn't matter,
you know, and so not just normalizing but also knowing
that if and when it does happen, it does not
feel shameful, embarrassing, and all of the things that we

(16:28):
think it's going to feel and be in this world.
So I think that's really great and I love how
you bring up like the spectrum of things like, yes,
pooping around your period is normal, but what does that
poop experience look like is a different conversation, And your
book really expanding on that really takes us into the
gray area where I think a lot of people might

(16:50):
not otherwise think they think in terms of yes or no.
Is pooping during this time normal or is it not?
But really there's so many more questions to each thing
that we experience health wise, and your hyper specific dietary
recommendations are just like chef's kiss. It makes us feel
so empowered not broken. Oh yeah, all I needed was
a little bit of avocado in my diet. Of course

(17:11):
I don't have the right ratio of fats going on.
Let me try this, and it gives people something so
much more to be part of their health solution as
opposed to feeling dismissed going to the doctors take might all.
Not to say that every doctor you know will be dismissive,
but we do in the society think of them as
just like quote unquote lady problems, get on with it. Yeah,

(17:31):
I would encourage everybody to like look up period simulators
on social media and see men having these machines put
on them tens units to simulate a period, and how
they can't breathe, they can't talk, they can function. And
when you consider that's an average period experience for a
lot of women, they still go to work, they still
take care of their kids, they still like go work out,

(17:53):
they still go and do these things. And I think,
you know, part of that lends this narrative like women
have a higher pain threshold. Society has a higher expectation
on us whether or not we're having pain, And in
the book, I actually go through the different studies showing
us the women's pain is not taken seriously. It is dismissed.

(18:15):
And when it's pain of a heart attack, you have
a higherware of being dismissed than a man. And then
you put it down in the pelvis and doctors are like,
it's lady part problems or pain with sex. Just have
some loop and some wine and you'll be fine, when
in fact it can be a sign of something much
more problematic. Staying on the topic of hormones and moving

(18:47):
into like anatomy, I think that a lot of us
have only seen our own vaginas, and we start to
come up with stories about what they look like, from
the shape of them, to the size of them, to
the odor that they produce at different times. So tackling
a few of those questions which your social media has
so many fun clips on this. If anybody wants to

(19:08):
go over to doctor Julian Brighton's Instagram, you'll just feel
so much more self assured in your own body after visiting.
But can a vagina be too long? Too big or
too small. No, I actually was like, I don't even
want to write about this, Like in the book. I
just was like, you know, but if the question just
can't kept coming up. But I say why I didn't

(19:31):
want to write about it is I just was like
I felt like I could just sum it up in
a couple of sentences of like, if you don't hurt
and you don't have like dysfunction, you don't have a problem.
But it was something that is such a big question
of people being like, oh, well, after you have a baby,
I heard that you'll be loose and if I want
to save my vagina, I need to have a c section.

(19:51):
Not true, having a c section won't necessarily save your vagina, sorry,
and they could really cause a lot of other problems.
And then you know this concept of like oh well,
if women have sex with too many penises, then they're
gonna be too loose and that I laugh, like, oh really, sir,
you think your penis is like so great. Have you
seen a baby? Have you seen their heads? Do you

(20:12):
have any concept? And you're like, oh, my penis has
the power to like completely transform this tissue, like it
is not a magic wand friend it is not. And
so even after childbirth, when a baby passes through the
vaginal canal, that tissue is like an accordion and it
stretches and there might be more folds left behind. But

(20:33):
just like a little spoiler for people who haven't had kids,
a lot of people report better sex after having a baby,
and their partners report better sex after having a baby.
So it isn't something that like, oh, it's completely ruined.
You can your vagina be too small. The length of
the vaginal canal might be too small compared to what

(20:53):
is trying to enter. So there is a phenomenon when
we are aroused called tenting, where the cervix actually moves
up and back and the vaginal tissue changes to accommodate
the prospect of something penetrating it. And in the book
there is a question that a give like to size matter,

(21:14):
and it does matter, but not in the way that
people think usually comes from this place of people saying, oh,
size matters because if he's too small, And in fact,
most women aren't orgasming through vaginal penetration, so the size
is negligible when it comes to reaching an orgasm because
it takes clural stimulation but where it matters is is

(21:36):
he too large? And that is a real issue and phenomenon.
And there's actually a company that needs something called the Ohnet,
which are a little silicone basically stoppers that you can
slip on so that he still has pleasure, but it
helps you control the depth of penetration. And then depending
on where you're at in your cycle around menstruation, the

(21:58):
universe is going to be downlower, the service will be
down lower, and a collision with a penis can happen
and that could be painful. So that's the nuance of like,
oh could you And it's like not even you. It's
not a vaginal canal issue of too big or too small.
It's really like what are we doing here? Are you
aroused enough where you at in your cycle? And also

(22:20):
I think it's always something that men are told, like, oh,
you want to have a really big penis and you
want to last forever, and that when you look at
the research, is not what women want. It's not what
women are looking for. And I think you know, as
we have this conversation, it just really highlights how the
myths about women's bodies they hurt any gender like they

(22:44):
really are impactful in the negative way on any gender.
So true. I love that you called it a collision
with a penis. I thought that was just hilarious and illustrative.
But that you bring up so many incredible points so quickly,
so articulately, that like the conversation about sex, penis is
being big is better, vagina is being tight better, like

(23:07):
all these things that we just like check off as
like normal in our brain has just created this idea that,
like sex should be a specific thing. And through that quick,
like very explosive explanation of everything, you've put so much
more color and dimension to the story. Talking about how
where you are in your cycle can impact the pleasure

(23:29):
and the like how wealth things fit and how things feel.
It just like makes so much sense. And yet we
have been putting so much blame and pressure on ourselves
with every sexual experience, and you just bring color to
it and you make it sound so simple when you
say the things that you say in your book. You

(23:50):
talk about the husband stitch and I just about threw
up everywhere. Can you explain what the husband stitch is? Yeah,
if you're driving right now, you might want to pull over, because,
like you were brought to get really pissed. So when
women have babies, okay, sometimes there's tears, sometimes there's a pisotomies.
They have no evidence to support them. They shouldn't be

(24:13):
done anymore. But there is sometimes a need to stitch
things up so that happens. And what doctors will sometimes
do is non consentually take liberties with your body and
add an extra stitch at the top. We call it
the husband stitch because the doctor's like, I'm doing this
for your husband so that sex is better afterwards. Okay, firstly,

(24:35):
no evidence of that. In fact, evidence to the contrary
that it can result in pain with sex. Now nobody's
having penetration, nobody's having sex. Like is it the husband's
stitch or is it like the like saboteur stitch, because
it really can sabotage your sex life. But it's also
something that doctors will do without consent. They won't even

(24:56):
tell women. There are women who have reported I mean,
thank goodness for the Internet where women can tell their
stories and share these things so that other women can
understand what's going on, because these doctors are not being
honest about what they're doing. That they share these stories
about how like they had to go pelic full or
physical therapy. They had to go do all this stuff
and in the end they ended up having to be

(25:18):
they had to have the area actually surgery surgically operated
on to reclaim the normal function of their body because
their doctor thought it was cute to put an extra
stitch in because their doctors and these are these are
male doctors, okay, Like I'm not going to skirt around
that these are male doctors being like, oh, yes, because
tighter is better, Like tell me you don't have a

(25:39):
vagina without telling me, because no, A tight vagina is
a vagina that's not interested. Like, a tight vagina is
a vagina that's not ready for penetration. The vagina being
tight is what, Like it's just some weird archaic relic
of like, you know, I don't even know when that
came from. That I should research that. And this cont

(26:00):
step in this idea that that's what makes for pleasurable
sex is absolutely wrong because, as I said, the vagina expands,
it changes, it opens up more to accommodate anything that
could be penetrating it when the tissue is adequately stimulated
and aroused. When we see that the tissue stays tight,

(26:22):
remains tight. As doctors, you know, we're like, well, is
there not enough estrogen? Do we have atrophy happening of
the tissue? Like is this a hormonal issue? Is it
a situation where you have vaginismus? Like have you had
like past history of infections and now the tissue is
really not responding in the way that you want it to.

(26:43):
But what it's doing is basically locking down the fortress
to keep you safe. And so I think this is
really important to understand because there's a lot of shame
and there's a lot of stupid jokes that go around
about like, oh, you want it to be tight. If
it feels that tight, you my friend are not a
good lover, Like there is something going on and she's

(27:05):
not feeling safe, or it's possible that there's some other
kind of issue going on and it's a medical condition
that requires treatment. So tight is not the standard and
it is not something that anyone should be aspiring towards.
Amen vaginal odor. You did such a for lack of
a better word, cute post on your Instagram about odor,

(27:27):
and it cut my attention because I think that's something
as women that were always like do I smell, Do
I smell? We don't want to smell for our partners?
Or if we do smell, like, is it an indication
of something being wrong with us? Yeah, and you flip
the script in the post. So can you talk a
little bit more about one of the causes of vaginal
odor not being a woman's fault and what actually ends

(27:48):
up causing it? Yeah, okay, So I actually wrote a
whole history of douching in my book and we had
to cut it out, and so for people to understand
that the entire concept that vaginas shouldn't smell like vaginas,
that they should smell like clementines and vanilla and champagne berries.
Like this is so stupid when you say it out loud.

(28:09):
This whole concept just came from marketing. We used to
have doctors recommending douching back in the eighteen hundreds. Funny enough,
they're like, you need to wash the inside of your vagina,
But when they were challenged to wash their hands before
surgery or childbirth, they didn't want to do that. They
didn't think they really needed to wash their hands. Like
this is for real, This is men in medicine making

(28:30):
problems for vaginas since the eighteen hundreds, and so this
douching was really a euphemism for family planning. And so
the idea, you know, lysol steps in lysols, like the
leading douche women are dying, but then they're still douching
with it because they need to control their reproductive health.
And then here comes birth control, and especially once the

(28:53):
pill steps on the scene, the marketing changes and go
google the marketing, get into the images where they like,
why is he shutting her out of the bedroom? Why
is he no longer in love with her? Especially if
you are a black or Hispanic woman, the marketing was
even worse because your dark body was a dirty body,
and that is why Latinas and black women are still

(29:16):
doushing at a much higher rate and exposing themselves to
endocrine disruptors chemicals that are associated with hormonal issues but
also cancers than any other population. So I sail this
because the whole concept of like you're supposed to smell
a certain way that men and women and everybody has
accepted was just a company having to pivot their marketing

(29:40):
because contraceptions were now available, but they didn't want to
go under as a business, so they took to shaming
women about their bodies and that still persists to today.
So understanding that it is like one of the biggest
acts of rebellion to just love your body and recognize
it's fine the way it smells. But that doesn't stop

(30:00):
men out there who really don't know a thing about
the vagina from shaming and saying like, oh, if it's fish,
showder down there, and like, oh, she's stinky. You know,
they make all these comments. And so that video that
you're alluding to was Nie sharing that. So if you
have a fish like odor, it is because of an
organism that is normal in your vagina causing this odor.

(30:22):
It produces amines that gives that fish like odor. It
is a sign that you need treatment for bacterial vaginosis.
It is due to a pH shift. And if he's
complaining about it after sex, you'll have to recognize that
your lack of basilla created an acidic environment. The vagina
should be acidic, but these organisms overgrow in an alkaline environment,

(30:46):
and semen makes for an alkalin environment. It is alkalin,
and so it is the act of sex which allows
ejaculate into the vagina that can allow for a pitch
shift to happen, and you did all up bacterial vaginosis.
And then you see these men out there are shaming women,
and it's like, that's fine. Do you know what I know?

(31:07):
The solution is it's either stop having sex with you,
or you wear a barrier, you wear a condom, and
you do not ejaculate inside the vaginal canal, and we
shift these lubes because you are disrupting her. pH men
do not like it when I say this. They're like, oh,
you're just blaming us for one more thing. I'm like,
I'm just explaining basic biology. And what the treatment is

(31:30):
is if this is happening over and over because of you.
And also, weren't you just blaming her, but not just
blaming her, shaming her, making fun of her, making whole
skits and jokes about her. But like, heaven forbid, we
would talk about the impact of your ejaculate because your
feelings get hurt, like and it's just like the only

(31:50):
reason your feelings get hurt is because you were such
an asshole about it to begin with. Well said, And
I think that these conversations are not said and that
are happening at home don't have any sort of candor
that you bring to this conversation instead with the shame
and the blame festers, and then when we go to
have sex again, we are, like you said, unsafe. We

(32:13):
don't feel safe, Like the vagina is tightening, not tightening
in a good way, tightening in a way of like
I don't want to have sex. You're not going to
feel you know, the proper hormones and the cascade that
needs to occur isn't going to happen to make sex
pleasurable because you're so worried about what it smells like
down there. And if someone has been shaming your body,
why are you going to be vulnerable with them? Like

(32:35):
that is going to inhibit your ability to get aroused,
stay aroused, and achieve orgasm. So if men do want sex,
they should probably knock that off. And also don't have
sex with men who shame your body. As if semen
is such a non disgusting thing, like I know, like
we got, we got, like and here's the reality. Humans,

(32:58):
animals of any kind make fluence that are disgusting, okay,
And sex is awkward and sex is messy, and like
we just have to normalize these things. Like man, the
number of women who will run into the comments if
you say something like that and they're like, why are
you shaming men? And blahlah blah blah blah. Where's that
same energy when they're shaming women or any of that, Like,

(33:19):
and it's not about shaming then, it's just about having
real honest conversations. Like you know, the question comes up
of like, oh my god, there's so much goop coming
out of me after I have sex with a pedis
and like I have to do this awkward walk to
the bathroom. Yes, that's normal. A lot of people have
to do that, and we have to deal with the
cleanup of that, Like, we have to deal with the
cleanup of that, which is sometimes multiple days of the

(33:40):
vagina cleaning house, being like you do not belong here.
You've all got to go like and cleaning everything out
and you're like times you have to wear a panning
liner or you're having to get into the shower like
and like this is normal, this is a normal experience.
But you know, back to your point, they call it
cervical mucus and by day I mean metassing, but semen

(34:01):
ejaculate like you know, penile fluids, Like there's just all
these ways that they talk about it as if it's
not just another another thing of goop, and with uh,
you know, cervical nucas, it's it's cervical fluid, it's cervical discharge.
But because like once a month, it resembles like nucas

(34:21):
that comes from your nose as well that we got
the term mucus, but like semen that coagulates looks like
nucas too. I just want to like illustrate this for
everybody so that they understand that there is a bias
in medicine. And there is a way that we that
medicine has regarded and talked about the male body with reverence.
And then there's the way that they're just like, um,

(34:42):
here's this like inferior version with baby making accessories over here.
Well said in your book you talk about the media
and sex, and I really sunk my teeth into this
portion because I was thinking about its impact on me personally.

(35:05):
And I don't watch a ton of TV, but the
TV that I do watch, like they in recent years
are not shy on holding back like pretty passionate sex
scenes showing a lot without like it being you know,
a very adult viewer. Only type of show that being said,
the portrayal of sex, although we're showing so much more

(35:28):
of it with noises and we're not showing the awkwardness,
the lead up, the four play, the need of lubes,
the conversation about STDs, like you say in your book,
and even I know that television is fake, but I
start to think, like, that's fine if we know that

(35:50):
it's fake, but we're getting information about sex, how to
have it, how to approach it in a way that
feels good from another variable, right, And then it's like, okay.
About the conversation of porn, It's like, we don't even
know where to get porn without feeling shameful. It is
going to have a huge impact on us because we

(36:10):
don't know why we're not in the mood suddenly when
people make it look like it's just a passionate after
dinner thing, you know, on a day whatever. It is. So, yeah,
there is so much to learn when it comes to orgasms.
I think you mentioned earlier that a woman might not
want long sex. Is that because she orgasms quickly or

(36:35):
what's the kind of the deal with orgasms? How many
she can have, how many she wants and what's expected
of like long sex versus short sex. That was a
lot in a question, but I have a feeling you're
going to know how to tackle it. Okay. So when
it comes to orgasms and how many you want, that's
really up to you. Sometimes women don't even go into
sex expecting or wanting an orgasm, They just want the connection.

(36:57):
That's normal. It is normal that certain times your cycle
it takes you longer to orgasm. Maybe you only have one.
Other parts of your cycle you have multiples, and it
was so easy to get there, Like all of these
things are normal, and really, you know, as you were
talking about the media, I think that there is an
expectation of always like, oh, orgasms just come so easily.

(37:18):
They don't always come so easily. It depends on what's
going on with your hormones, what's going on with your day,
what's going on with your nervous system, what's going on
with your relationship. There's a lot of factors that can
impact anybody's orgasms, and there's a lot of pressure that
happens on men. And it's very interesting to me that
when you look at the media, like when is sex
awkward into comedy? But otherwise it's supposed to be steamy, passionate, perfect.

(37:42):
I just laugh at these directors. I'm like, what's it
really like for you? Like I'd love to have an
interview series with each director who, like you know, directs
these like sex scenes and just be like, let's talk
about your sex life. Let me know what that looks like.
I'm just curious, like, where are you coming from as
you direct something like this. I just think this is
just a conversation I want to have if you are
a director of a movie, hit me up, let's make

(38:03):
this happen. But with that, we have like what's portrayed
as normal there that isn't necessarily tracking with what our
experience is. And there is a lot of pressure on them.
There's pressure on then that they're supposed to like please
women and like be a stallion in the bedroom, and
they're supposed to last forever. Part of that, like not
wanting to last forever is because it's not necessary for pleasure.

(38:28):
And in fact, like maybe you were having what people
call four play, which is a form of sex, and
it was wonderful, and you did that for like forty
five minutes, and then by the time it is time
to like have penetration. If you choose to go that round,
it's like everybody is like in three to five minutes orgasming.
It's an explosive experience, and that's like the finish line

(38:50):
for the event and the goal that you and your
partner have set in the bedroom. But it's that in
retrospect going like, oh well that was like five minutes
that sometimes men are like maybe that's not long enough,
and there's all these creams of like last forever. There's
certainly your times where it's like your partner may want
you to last forever. But it is this concept that
ubiquitously what women want is like long stense of penetration.

(39:15):
If you're not using lube, things can get dried out.
If you're using water based lube, things can get dried out.
It is friction depending on what's going going on with
the tissue, like you are you healing recovering from something?
Did you go do a spin clost today? Right? Like
theres something like that, like this micro trauma to the tissues,
like where are you at in your cycle? Like all

(39:35):
of this can influence like how long do you really
want your partner to go? But it is a myth
that all women want our partners that last forever because orgasms, again,
they don't happen that way pleasurable like that. You know,
for a lot of people, pleasurable sex isn't isn't defined
by just vaginal penetration. And for your partner, you know,

(39:56):
that night even be something that they're like, We've done
all of these things and I'm I am ready because
of all the anticipation and excitement, and that is all okay.
So I just think it's the shoulds that really get us.
And the shoulds are a lot of times coming from media,
which is like the only place where a one sided
conversation of what sex is and should be is happening

(40:20):
in our homes. I think that your next book should
be is this normal for men? Because once men can
understand what's actually expected of them, that conversation will drastically
change because they too are dealing with the pressure of
needing to have big penises and go forever. And then
instead of like taking it to moment even unpack that,
it's you know, the shame blame potato gets pushed onto us,

(40:42):
and then nobody's having good sex because there's there's so
much to go into when it comes to sex drive.
I think about my group of friends from high school
who we've always always been really open about our sexual experiences.
I guess because we grew up together and went through
all of that. But each one of us has a
very different set actual energy and relationship to sex. You know,

(41:03):
you have the one that whose mind revolves around sex.
You have the person who doesn't really have much interest.
Is there a normal level of sex drive in the
absence of a sexual partner. I mean, that's all normal.
Everything you described is normal. So there's some great research
studies out there. Rosemary Bassan brought us like the idea

(41:24):
of how much context matters about how we can have
responsive desire, which is like we respond to the stimuli
and that gets us there to a place where we
want sex, and even we still we might even have
to be in the act of sex before everything aligns
and we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do want sex,
like I am filling this. And then the idea of

(41:44):
spontaneous desire, which is this concept of like you have
sex on the break, like you're exactly what media tells
you a man should be, right, that's usually what it is.
And if women want sex all the time, like they're
too much like men, Like that's not a thing, like
the idea of sexual desire, arousal orgasms, all of it

(42:04):
transgen like transcends gender. We have these, Yes, women are
more likely to fall into a responsive desire camp or
when you're taking it from the dual control model, which
is the research from Bancroft and Jansen who gave the
analogy of having gas pedals and breaks. When you look

(42:25):
at their research, women are the ones more inclined to
have more touchy breaks, be less inclined to have like
touchy gas pedals to where they like have sex when
they're stressed. But that doesn't mean it's universally true for everyone,
and it can go the other way as well with men,
where men can have touchy your breaks and society is

(42:46):
telling them, like you should be thinking about sex all
the time. Anything should just get you hard, right, like, oh,
except if you're your grandma's house. Now we're making fun
of you and that's awkward and all this stuff. But
like then just like think about sex. They get hard
immediately and then you know, they never lose their erection
and if they do, well, then we're gonna just laugh
about that and make fun of them because they are

(43:08):
somehow less of a man because of it. But really
what's going on is these are all nervous system responses.
Sometimes with a rectile dysfunction, it is related to what
is happening with blood flow and circulation, cardiovascular disease, diabetes
like real medical risks. And other times it can be
performance anxiety, which pumps on the brakes for them, and

(43:29):
just in the same way for women, it might be
body image issues that pumps on the brakes for them.
And so there's all these layers. I break down in
my chapter on a libido for understanding what your normal is.
So you just said, like you've been talking with your
friends and you compare all of these things. We don't
usually compare a sleep and talk about our sleep and

(43:50):
then wonder if we're normal or not because compared to
our friend, our sleep is different and we have these
different things going on. So now like, am I normal?
Should I feel ashamed about this? Should I be insecure
about this? But sex is one of those things, especially
sexual desire or libiato, that we tend to compare and
despair about it. And because like the research isn't talked about.

(44:10):
It's there, It's been there for decades for like my
adult life, and yet it hasn't been talked about. There's
a book called Come As you Are that really popularized
some of this research and helping women to understand. I've
had people that have heard clips of you speaking and
they're like, so as your book basically like come as
you Are. I'm like, absolutely not it is. I get

(44:32):
into one chapter surrounding this research, because you can't talk
about women's libido and not talk about this research and
really be doing it the service. I think her book
is a great complimentary book, but my book is we
are going hormones, We are going like discharge Bruss, Like
what don't you need to know from a medical perspective
as well? So with that and I definitely shout her

(44:55):
out in my book as well, Emilne Nagoski who wrote
that book. But to understand and that, like that book
is very popular, This research among people in the sexual
health feel really popular, really well known. You talk about
this with the average individual and they've never heard any
of these concepts because the only thing that is still

(45:16):
played out as normal is men want sex all the
time and women are cold. Fish or really not into sex,
like these kinds of narratives and stereotypes and they're frankly
just not true. Well, I want to move into questions
from our listeners, one of which you've already touched upon, yes,
which is how does being self conscious of your body

(45:37):
affect your ability to have sex? You know, if you
are somebody listening and you have body image concerns, whether
they are chronic or interruptive at times, can we talk
about how somebody can maybe move through that, why it's happening,
and how they can move through it to have good
sex and possibly achieve an orgasm. Yeah, in the context

(46:00):
of our society, I think the first thing to recognize
is this is a normal response to the marketing and
the messages that have inundated and permeated every aspect of
your life. Like I just laugh now being in my
forties about how many times I thought I was fat,
that I didn't want photos taken on me because I
thought I was fat, and I look back and I'm like,
you were fine. Or in the number of times that

(46:23):
I have done interviews where men go and comment, they
don't care anything I said. They just make a comment
about how they would never listen to me because I'm
so fat, and I'm like, that's just really interesting. It
is just very interesting, like all of this and that
is just these little like this is just my anecdotal
like of my life, and I share this because it's

(46:44):
another conversation we need to normalize. I'm never feeling okay
in our own bodies. And I think you have one
of the hardest tasks ahead of you as a woman
that to have great sex you have to move into
a place of self acceptance and unapologetically loving yourself in
the face of an environment that constantly sends you the

(47:06):
signal that you're not enough and that you should be
altering yourself in some way. So I think it's first
recognizing that, like this shit is hard and that is
a normal experience given the kind of society that we
are in. I give exercises in the book like around
ovulation is like what your hormones do? Have you fill

(47:28):
in yourself like things are perky or fool or curvier,
like plumper, like you are going it is the time
where you're like, I look good today in your cycle.
That is a good time to get in front of
a mere naked and to write down the things you
love about yourself and remind yourself that when you get
the week before your period, and your hormones are dropping
and things are drooping, and lines and wrinkles are showing

(47:50):
up more and all of those changes are coming on
because there is a phenomenon known as spectatoring. This is
defined in the research because it is so common for
it to happen where you literally leave your body and
just sit on the sidelines, like criticizing yourself. So you're
in the act of having sex, and you might fall

(48:11):
into this, Oh my god, like, what is do my
stretch marks show in this position? How is this making
my cellulate look? Like? Oh my god? Was that annoised? Yes,
cliffs happened, especially in certain positions. But eric goes in,
it must come out. There is no other escape patch
for it. But these kinds of things go on and
then you step away and you start wondering all of

(48:34):
this about yourself, and because of that, you're no longer aroused.
You can't achieve an orgasm, and no orgasm requires you
to be mindful. So it is like a little bit
controversial because I've had people in the body positivity space
challenged me and be like, no, this is not the way.
But I'll say, if you need to have sex with
the lights on, or so you need the lights off

(48:57):
to get yourself to a place where you're more comfortable,
your bodies start there, because this is taking away one
of your senses, a sense that can be distracting if
you're thinking about, oh, how is my partner looking at me?
But when you take away visual stimulation, you can reroute
the nervous system to pay a lot more attention to

(49:18):
the touch. And the touch really matters in these situations,
and all senses can be employed, and people have certain
things that do it for them, like certain sounds and
sense and textures, and that's all lovely, but with this
body image concern, that could be a place where you start.
You start with practices of loving, you stop yourself and

(49:40):
then you know, maybe you're having sex with the lights
off and you are putting all the stimuli into that
touch and thinking about that. And you know, the other
thing to recognize is that when we are having sex
with our partners, and if they're into it, their brain
is flooding them with these feel good chemicals. They're not
paying attention to how these things look and sometimes honestly,

(50:03):
the things that you think would be like, oh, a
turn off, they're not registering and your body is a
turn on. This is where where porn actually shows us
that varieties in bodies are pealing. What Victoria's Secret shows
us is there's one body type, one archetype. They are
doing better now, but like they already had their impact

(50:25):
on me and you and a lot of people with
what they've showed us. What marketing to women shows is
there's only one type of body that is ideal and
it changes, right. I Mean, at one point it was
Kate Moss and the next point it was a Kardashian
and I think we're going back to Kate Moss. And
those are all beautiful bodies, but that's not the only

(50:45):
beautiful body type that's out there. And whenever I talk
about this for women to recognize what people are viewing
in porn is a lot more variety than what we're
seeing in marketing. Really well said, and thank you for
sharing some of your own body image experiences and how
it's out like you've personally gotten through them in order

(51:08):
to oh, no, I still slip like no, I don't
want to. I don't want to come out here and
pretend like I've figured it out and I'm like way
above that. I can have the awareness of all the
things and then still have my moments where I put
on a pair of jeans and I don't feel I
don't feel good in that moment, So like that is
also normal to be. Like I understand it, I can
move through it, and then I also fall back into

(51:30):
a trap every now and again. It gets me. Yeah,
but just talking about you know, sex in general a
place where like, even if you want to be there,
you can't be there. And I think that a lot
of times we get in the bedroom and even if
we're in the mood, all that noise starts flooding in,
whether it's the body image noise or other types of
noise pulling us away in real noise, federal noise. But

(51:50):
I love the idea of turning the lights off. You know,
in yoga we do that. We close off different senses.
You called it mindfulness. I'll take it a step further.
It's mind body connect and you can't get there with
the chit chatter over here judging yourself, wondering what they're thinking.
But you close off from one of the senses, whether
it's the eyes or the ears, and all of a
sudden it's the touch and your present. So I think

(52:12):
that's just like such a beautiful tangible tip for people,
all people to work with. Here, I want to ask
two more questions from our listeners, and we're going to
move a little bit away from sex for a moment
here and move a little bit into normal hormonal stuff.
Late onset menopause. Is this something that's normal? Because this

(52:33):
person says that her doctor thinks that she's an alien.
Did they say that? She did? She said, is it
normal too? Was the prompt that she wrote, have late
onset menopause? Dash, my doctor thinks I'm an alien? Oh
my gosh. Okay, So we go into menopause when the
vault of eggs is spent and we're no longer ovulating,

(52:54):
we're no no longer cycling, the ovaries are done. Maybe
you've started your period much later, so the average age
is twelve. Maybe you started at fourteen or fifteen, so
you have a few more years. Like the vaults, nobody
cracked the eggs yet, like they were they were left,
and so maybe that's what's going on. If you are
continuing to men straight and that's going into like mid

(53:18):
late fifties like that. You know, sometimes we want to
ask like are you cycling? Like are you cycling or
is something else going on? But you know, as much
as there's these averages, understand that averages exist in a
bell curve. So if you think about a bell and
just set it on a flat surface and if you
divide it in half, that is the center, that is

(53:39):
the average, but all to the right of that. So
we're talking about an age spectrum here that's going to
be older individuals who are going through menopause later that
might be your normal, depending on your circumstances. It is
still worth getting things worked up and getting screening exams,
like making sure you're getting your mammograms, making sure that

(54:01):
we're monitoring things. But it doesn't mean that like you're
an alien or you're totally something is freakishly wrong with you,
because you are on the spectrum of normal. It's just
not the common one that your doctor is seeing. The
next question we got in two different forms, so I
definitely want to ask it. But the question is is
it normal to experience spotting between periods? So any type

(54:23):
of bleeding that happened when it's not your formal period.
Could that be a normal thing? You can spot with
ovulation and that would be considered normal if you are
spotting outside of that, it's not just run ovulation. It's
more than a tablespoon at last several days, and that's
happening between periods. You definitely need to see a provider.
That is not considered normal. It's considered disordered you or

(54:45):
in bleeding, and we need to understand what is going
on there. Do we have hormonal issues happening, do we
have structural changes? And then there's like the big scaries
of like could it possibly be cancer? And the way
we sleep at night and don't worry about that is
by taking out action, getting worked up and using your ally,
which is your doctor. I love that and I think
that's a perfect way to end this interview because your

(55:08):
book is packed with information about is this normal? That
being said, that doesn't mean that everything is normal, but
a lot of the things that we worry about are
simply normal. But in the absence of any concern, the
most important thing is to choose a doctor that is
your ally. If you're not comfortable with that doctor, find
a new one. And have those really empowered conversations. Your

(55:32):
book is incredible. Your incredible. I think that the passion
is just like spewing out of you. So even though
you said you feel tired, this is a big interview week,
the week before her book actually comes out. By the
time this episode comes out, the book will be out.
So we're going to link that below. You've got so
much to give and it is pouring out of you radiantly.
So I'm excited for the world to get this book

(55:54):
in their hands and let it do some of the
work that you've been doing to get the word out.
Oh well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you
bringing in questions from your community and so that we
could really make sure that the people that know you
and trust you are getting the support they need as well.
So thank you so much. I also just want to
do a final mention that in this episode we talked

(56:16):
a lot about sex, because I feel like that's the
most taboo topic and I wanted people to sink their
teeth into the type of material that you are talking
about in this book that I think goes beyond any
book that I've ever read. But there really is so
much more when it comes to hormonal balance, talking about discharge,
period pain, and all of the things that we deal

(56:39):
with as a woman. It's so much more than sex,
but also the sex and answer so many of those
questions that, like I said, I was previously turning to
Google for. Yeah, well awesome. Well, thank you again so much,
and I cannot wait to hear what people find helpful
and what was the thing that really made them have
an AHA moment, because yeah, we did talk about sex,

(57:00):
but this book is hefty. There is a lot of
information in there, and so I'm really invested in what
each person takes away for themselves. Okay, so you can
support doctor Julian Brighton and yourself by picking up this book.
I'm going to put it in the show notes below,
and of course I don't even need to tell you
you're going to follow her online as well. We'll put

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all that information there. Thank you so much for joining us,
and we'll see you back here next week.