June 23, 2023 • 54 mins
Carolyn Brown, MS, RD, is back on TTL to share about her latest venture as a nomad — traveling across the globe while taking her business (and clients) with her.
She spills:
* Why you’re only a few choices away from a different life
* Indigo Health: the business she co-created with her sister and the impact they’re making on women’s health
* Unpopular opinions: why she’s no longer afraid to speak them
* Bloating: when it’s normal vs. a cause of concern
* Health + Botox: can the two exist in the same sentence?
* Romantic Partnership + Conflict: learning to stay present
* Ceremonial Psychedelics: what this is, and what it does to the brain’s neural pathways
* The Hoffman Institute: why this helped her get the most clarity
Follow Carolyn on Instagram: @carolynbrownie
Follow Indigo Health on Instagram: @indigowellnessgroup
The Truthiest Life on Instagram @thetruthiestlife
Host @lisahayim
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Edited by Houston Tilley
Intro Jingle by Alyssa Chase aka @findyoursails
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
No, even when times geitheard and you feel you're in
the c see just how beautiful life can be. When
you safen your heart, you can finally start.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To live your tu seious life.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hello everybody, welcome back to The Truthius Life. It's your host,
Lisa Haim and this week is a different episode than usual.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I'm bringing back on.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Carolyn Brown, one of my best friends who has been
a guest on The Truthius Life before. But this episode
is different because Carolyn and I are in very different
phases of life right now, and we live in different states,
and we have.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Not had a formal catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And for the last couple of weeks, I've I've seen
her on social media. Of course, I watch her stories
and her post and there's just something distinctly different about her,
the way she talks, the energy that's coming with her,
the way that she even looks. And I truly needed
to catch up with her as she's nomadic living. She
left Boulder, she's traveling the world with her partner, and
(01:19):
I really wanted the opportunity to have a live catch
up with her and ask a lot of the questions
that I have for how did she change her life
so drastically to the point that I feel it in
everything that she does, says, and even the way that
she looks. So by recording this conversation, we really get
into it, and Carolyn really inspires us to think about
(01:41):
our choices, what we do with our energy, and.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
What I really love.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The most inspiring part is her belief that we are
only a few choices away from a different life. And
obviously some of us aren't going to be packing our
bags and moving on to a nomadic living situation. But
I think that from my point of view where I
sit as a mother living in suburbia, not going anywhere
(02:05):
physically or making drastic changes to my life or home structure,
I totally agree with this. Sometimes simple choices can drastically
change your life from the inside out, and that really
comes out comes down to perspective and the dimension that
we are living with him and the vibration that we
(02:27):
are emitting into the world, and what we do changes that.
So anyway, this episode is really fun. We talk about
unpopular opinions. We talk about this incredible business that she's
co created with her sister and the impact that they're
making on women's health. We talk about botogs, we talk
about romantic partnerships and learning how to fight and stay
(02:49):
present in them. We talk about psychedelics and how they
have impacted her and the one thing that she recommends
everybody does to truly get the most clarity and make
change in your life. I hope you love this episode
as much as I loved having this conversation with Carolyn.
Like I said, it's a little bit different than what
it's a lot different than what I usually do. It's raw,
(03:11):
it's organic, and it is truly the conversations that I'm
having with my best friends, specifically in this episode, my
best friend Carolyn. Hope you love it as much as
I do, and I'll see you back here next week
for our season finale of The Truthiest Life before we
go on summer break. Well, this is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Hey, Carolyn, Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, the purpose of this is because I really need
to catch up with you, and I'm also very inspired
by you and proud of you and have a lot
of questions that I think our listeners would also benefit
to hear the answers from. But selfishly, I really just
want to catch up with you since you moved to
(03:56):
Lisbon aka liz Boa.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Liz Boa. Did you know that nobody says that really here?
I guess the people who are from here.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I have Carolyn on find my friends, and it is
a privilege that I do not abuse. But it tells
me that she's in liz Boa, And I was like,
what is liz Boa?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Apparently that's the proper name.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
What is it? Yeah, I guess that's the proper name.
That's how it would be said in Portuguese. I don't know.
I'm not an expert on this. We're passing through here.
We're really more on a nomadic adventure than we are
moving to Lisbon. But it's so magical here and it's
just such a good reminder for me of like life
can look like so many different things.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You posted that on your story in the last twenty
four hours, like how quickly your life can change, and
I was like, damn, that hits, But it also doesn't
when you're like in my shoes and have you know,
like more roots here with a baby and the complexities
of all of that.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
But it still felt good because there is truth to it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Even if I'm resisting what you're saying because of very
specific logistical reasons, life can look different even if you're
physically in the same place totally.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It could even be mindset related. So I think it
doesn't have to look like this massive, you know, exploration
of the globe, but to feel like you really do
have some say in what your life looks like and
there's like some real choice plants, Like I really do
believe you're just a few choices away from a totally
different life, no matter what that life currently looks like.
That could be job, that could be relationship, that could
(05:21):
be friendships, that could be yoga, teacher training, Like, it
really doesn't have to be anything so monumental.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I love that just a few choices away from a
different life. And I like that you said the word
choice instead of habit, because though when people say habit,
I feel like lately in the wellness world it's becoming
like a little dogmatic about like habits, habit stacking, efficiency
(05:51):
and those those words just itch me a little bit,
But choices hits me differently.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Well, I'm glad and I totally feel you on that.
I think it feels like very masculine, like the optimization
and the habit secing and the biohacking, and like I
think what I witness for you is just like really
reentering that like feminine, sort of like flowy. And I
feel that personally also in the stage of life, that
we're both sort of mirroring each other in very different ways,
(06:19):
which is really really cool that it doesn't have to
be so like girl Boss. It's more like lay in
the forest and roll around in the leaves.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I'm definitely loving the move away from the girl boss
and the hustle. I mean that word hustle never felt
right for me, even as I was growing a business
and putting a lot of my love towards it. But
I guess that word hustle feels like friction. It doesn't
feel like balanced. It feels like chase your dreams period.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Whereas sorry, I.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Feel like I'm stealing this conversation, so let's bring this
back to in one second. But actually, what I'm doing
right now is like letting a couple of my dreams
die and that feels so good.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Wow, wait, can you tell me Mark?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay, yeah, okay, but then we're going back to you
because I want to get on it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I just have had a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Of ideas lately, specifically one a business idea that I
have like tried to let go of and it's come back,
and I've tried to like go and it's come back.
And every time I let go, it literally like re
enters my brain. And I think this time for real,
for now at least, like I just putting closure on
the idea is actually very freeing because I see a
(07:32):
lot of moms doing it all, and like, power to them.
I look up to them, not because I want to
be them, but because like they're in their element.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
But it's just not me.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I'm not good at doing two things at once and
finding the balance between the two. And I'm just in
my season of like a lot of motherhood and taking
on something new would steal away from like where I
need to be physically, mentally, spiritually, energetically. So like just
letting that dream die feels really good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It feels really good, and also it can be and
not right now. I don't know if that's the cause
of your situation, but also many things get to be
like a not right now, maybe in the future, maybe
at another life stage or have you ever read Big
Magic though Elizabeth Gilbert, But she does that like kind
of idea hopping, and I think she's a better, more magical
way of saying it. But basically, if you don't act
on any idea, it's probably going to jump to someone
else and they'll get to act on it. That was
(08:26):
like her experience personally or professionally with some book ideas,
and it's something that I've seen like when oftentimes when
there's like a there's like a collective idea that happens
from the opposite sides of the world that multiple people
have at the same time, and so I don't know
if there's something there too. I'm even actually seeing that
with like doing this nomad life, choosing this, we have
randomly like a lot of friends choosing to do this
(08:46):
too at the same moment. So it's sort of like
there's this collective like idea of like, wow, there's different
ways to do things.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So why I wanted to have you on bringing it
back to you and your wisdom and your flow and
your energy is because you just embarked on living nomadically,
which you'll explain to us. I also wanted to go
back a little bit because even though we had you
on the show when you first moved to Boulder and
like all the magic that had like kind of just
ensued you just found your partner after years of New
(09:15):
York looking for the right person and finding all of
the wrongest persons. Positive you were just starting to be
in like this alchemy of great change with your job,
with your partnership, with yourself really most importantly, it was
kind of cool to capture it then. But now we're
out to ish May two and a half years. I
(09:36):
think since that initial interview, I believe, I just feel
like the last couple months six months, you have really
embodied yourself in a different way, and it has come
through on social media, which is really cool, not just
from like a business point of view, but also you
have this incredible business indigo that I think more people
(09:57):
need to know about, and there's a truth telling that
you're speaking from without fear. From what I know, like
mostly your beliefs haven't changed, but your ability to speak
them out into a space where it might not be
the quote unquote popular opinion or the trending opinion has
(10:18):
gotten louder, and that can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Thank you. That's it's interesting because I don't feel I
feel actually I'm like more personally private on social media
than I ever have been, and also professional, like professionally
now I've been in this field of nutrition for twelve
thirteen years, which is crazy, but you get more comfortable
and more opinionated and more sure too of also it
doesn't work and what I don't agree with, and so
(10:43):
I think I feel a whole lot more clear and
comfortable and like empowered to speak my mind on those things.
And also just as it being in business too and
in relationship and you know, just getting used to having
difficult conversations and things like that too. Like that's like
a real edge for me. That's a thing that maybe
has even come up a lot in the past like
two three years. That's really like changed me to get
(11:06):
more comfortable speaking my mind and speaking the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, to get a little bit more granular and specific.
You have always helped people lose weight, and I think
most people here know that, Like I see me in
like the anti diet space, and I am, but that
doesn't necessarily mean that like I personally for other people
an anti weight loss period period period, obviously, I think
(11:32):
there's a greater conversation and context to be had there.
But when people personally come to me and ask me
for a weight loss dietitian, and that is primarily what
they are looking for the on just about you and
maybe one other person, Like that's who I send to
because I know or I feel confident that your version
(11:55):
of health and health behaviors is going to be largely
positive on them, not just from a weight loss point
of view, but from an understanding their own body wisdom
point of view as well.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's so important. Yeah, I know the body wisdom piece,
I think is something that I hope that we do
really differently at Indigo. It's something really important to me.
Of yes, I have external wisdom, Lisa, you have excert
we have all that wisdom, but like to really get
someone in touch with their own internal wisdom in addition
to yes, maybe for someone I don't know, intermittent fasting
could be good hypothetically, or maybe for someone this supplement
(12:30):
could be good. But more than anything, like I always
tell every single client, like your inner wisdom and like
I trust you to make those decisions for yourself. Your
inner wism trumps anything I could ever say, And so
that's what I think also makes it work.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And I think for a couple of years, like as
intuitive eating quote unquote picked up like the word weight
loss became a word that like people were afraid to use,
and I think I felt, yeah, yeah, didn't I didn't
want to say that, but I think there was like
this level of confusion as well as you sort it out,
like what is my relationship to this word and the field?
(13:05):
But now I feel like you've e merged with a
good handle and sense on how you approach this.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I mean, I would say for the most part,
like we do see some just strictly weight loss, but
it's never about the weight, right, Like it's about you know,
eating issues when you were a kid, it's about stress levels,
it's about lack of sleep, post part and hormones like
blah blah blah. And also we do a ton of
gut testing now, we do Dutch tests, we do gimap,
we do We're looking much more in the functional and
(13:33):
integrative way of like what's going on underneath the hood.
Like if someone's coming to us and like isn't losing weight,
like that's actually usually indicative of a much bigger or
an issue going on underneath, then nothing's wrong with you.
You're not crazy, you're not messed up. Like I really
believe our bodies are always trying to come back into balance.
They're capable of that, but sometimes they do need a
little bit of a nudge.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Okay, But is the goal always weight loss or that
is sometimes just like the signal that something under the
hood isn't right. Is the goal always weight loss or
that is sometimes just like the signal that something under
(14:17):
the hood isn't right.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, honestly, it's a conversation. It's been a difficult conversation
with several clients recently that like, hey, we have to
get the health piece right, and then weight comes second
to that. And often what we see is like you
get the inside right, you get those pieces right, and
the outside does fall into place, Like the piece does
fall into place when we're focused on the health behaviors
or you know, the healing of these chronic gut issues
(14:39):
or whatever it might be. So like I'm even moving
away from like interest weight loss wise quite honestly, Like
it's you hal for a while. Yeah, Yeah, I just
I'm like, I like, of course I understand that it's
important to people, and I don't want to dismiss that,
and I would rather them do it through me. Slash us.
We have another wonderful dietician on our team, and so
I'd rather be done in a really healthy, ful way.
(15:00):
But it's not like it's not fun for me anymore.
It's just not interesting. I'm like, Okay, I want you
to feel great because I want you to feel confident
in the world and be proud of who you arec
show up in this world and like be exactly who
you are and do the things that you're meant to
do here.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And to like feel comfortable in your physical body is
I think a huge thing that like the online Intuitive
eating space dismisses, And it's not something that I speak
too often because I do occupy a smaller body. Even
if I don't feel good in my own personal body
at certain moments, it's still a smaller body, you know,
in a world that prioritizes that or idealizes that, and
(15:39):
for somebody in a bigger body for whatever reason, you know,
it's not just as easy as self acceptance, especially if
there's been a weight change that even if that a
certain size that didn't fit societal norms, was you know,
was there comfortability? There is not feeling right in your body,
not because of what's this society says, but from the
(16:01):
inside out.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
We're in different bodies than a lot of times people
are who are really struggling with this, and also you know,
and you don't feel great, and that's enough for me
to like help support people making a change. I really
really think like our bodies are giving us so much
information all the time, and it's up to us to
really listen. And then you don't have to want to
lose weight. But also if you do, there's nothing wrong
with you, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're not
(16:24):
like inherently a victim to diet culture because you want
to change your body.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Okay, Well, I think it's cool for people to hear
you say that, because there's that inner battle of a
lot of people are fighting themselves of like I don't
want to be a victim to diet culture, but they
are still not feeling right in their own bodies on
there and they're stuck. So just having the permission to
say I want to lose weight, you know, I think
can just then open the door to Okay, what else
(16:50):
is going on in your life? Like that health conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, And I love looking at all the other
puzzle pieces in people's lives too, Like clients for me,
it's really like therapy. It's like I know their partner's name,
I know their dog's name, I know their baby's name,
like I know what's going on, because that really informs
the full pictures. It's not just about the food. In fact,
it's rarely about the food at all.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So Indigo is your latest venture these last couple of years,
and it's different from just being a dietitian practice nutrition practice.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What is Indigo?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh my god, it's been so wonderful. So Indigo is
a wellness group I formed with my sister who's an acupuncturist,
and Sarah is the most amazing doctor of Chinese medicine.
But we've also just sort of expanded really organically with
more acupuncturists, another dietitian. We have therapists, we have pelvic
floor petees, so it's really like women's health, what we
(17:43):
want to where we would want to go. We have
energy healer, we have craniou sake guilt therapy, we have
massage therapists. Now it's just like the right people have
always come to the table, and so it's one of
those things in my life similar to like this adventure
that I'm on right now where it's just like the
green lights follow the green lights. And so we have
two offices now in etiquette, and then I work with
everybody virtually, and so it's just been this beautiful sort
(18:04):
of you know, women helping women, supporting women. And what
we do that's different is really collaborative care. So we
have a lot of overlap in our clients. A lot
of us see the same people, and so we can
have really like informed conversations and I can get you know,
a Chinese medicine perspective on something that's so different from
the education we got, and so that's really really helpful
(18:25):
for someone to just feel really like well supported and
like they're part of like a I mean it's a
family business.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, I mean people are I feel like really waking
up to Indigo and what you guys are doing because
it is so uniquely different. It's not even functional medicine.
I think the Chinese medicine approach really distinguishes you guys
in a way. And all the testing that you're doing there,
can you tell us about some of the testing?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah? Sure, I mean, to be honest, you like we
don't I don't even like like to lead with testing
a lot of the time because I think there's so
much again like talking to your body's inner wisdom that
we can get first, and you don't need these like
super fancy expensive tests all the time, but then sometimes
we do. And so we're especially really focused on that GIMAC,
which is a gut microbiome test, and it can tell
us all about you know, the good gut bacteria that
(19:12):
we want to see there and also some of the
bad guys. So everything from like cibo bacterial overgrowth, Candidas
and like fung guy yase, the situations I can tell
us about gut inflammation. It's like super nerdy, but it's
like one of my favorite things. Like I love seeing
this on my friends because be like I know them
from the inside out and it just makes so much
sense a lot of the information that we're learning, and
then we can really support people with a gut healing protocol.
(19:35):
And so if you're someone who's like suffering from IBS,
like a lot of the things, especially like on Instagram,
I'll see these girls posting like their bloat that's like
it's normal after a meal, and I'm like, it is
not normal, Like that is not normal to look six
months pregnant after a dinner or throughout the day. And
so that's like one of my biggest pet peeves. So
that if you are really uncomfortable, if something just like
(19:56):
doesn't maybe feel normal, like, get that checked out, talk
to somebody.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So as one of those people that has posted something
similar to that that you dislike years ago, I remember
I posted my bloating and said this is normal. I
want to speak slash have a conversation about that.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
If you're willing.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, absolutely, the sentiment that I was trying to share
at that point in time. It's nothing I've said recently,
simply because a lot of things have changed in my
life and I'm listening more than i'm speaking when it
comes to food, body blah blah blah. But my sentiment
here and the one that I share, is that like,
the stomach is the size of a fist, and when
(20:34):
I would eat any meal, I would look in the
mirror and notice stomach distension a lot of the time,
and I would call it maybe bloating or sting. I
would think as I got older, more educated, I called
it stomach distension. And I was trying to normalize stomach
distension after a meal rather than using that body checking
moment as oh my gosh, like my body changed, I
(20:56):
need to go on a diet.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, I know that when I used to post things
like that, they quote unquote performed really well. And when
things perform really well, it they become trendy topics to
talk about. As things become trendy topics to talk about,
the nuance of the conversation gets lost and it becomes
right wrong and black and white. So I think with
like this bloating conversation, these younger girls have lost the
(21:23):
nuance to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Absolutely, And I think that there's like stomach distension totally
normal extended bloat where you like actually look very pregnant,
like I actually I have pictures of this from a
night a parasite that I've posted to where like it
is not you can tell something's wrong right, And so
that's more what I'm looking for versus like, oh, yes,
your stomach should be descended. And I think there is
(21:47):
some normalizing that of like, no, you're putting food in
your body if you like weigh that amount of food.
It's like when someone gets on the scale after eating,
and like, of course the scale's going to go up
and your stomach's going to get descended because it's doing
like the most amazing job of breaking down, processing and
absorbing all of these these things and keeping you alive
and keeping you functioning right right, And so that's really important,
(22:07):
and I like appreciate that sort of mentality. And then
when there's other sorts there's a couple of like big
time influencers too that I see that it is like
I'm like, that's not healthy. You see that you have
something wrong, And so that's more of what I'm referring to,
Like I can kind of start it now of like
that's not stomach dissension, that's like lower you know, GI,
that's lower intestinal dissension and something you probably have, like
(22:32):
you might have a gluten intolerance. I mean, I can't
diagnose on on Instagram obviously, but just sometimes that's what
goes through my.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Head, right, And like I think one of the reasons
I also don't post things like that anymore outside of
like what you are necessarily saying is because like the
greater conversation of all of that is like still a
hyperfixation on the body and body check and you should
be in check with your own body and notice if
(22:59):
something is wrong. But I feel like I'm like I'm
more in touch with my body and its signals, but
less in tune to its physical It's temporary physical changes
such as stomach distension or bloating after a meal. And
so when you see somebody online doing the bloating is normal,
stomach distension is normal. It's like this preaching the vibe
(23:22):
I get, but then like still a preoccupation with it
if you are capturing it and sharing this message.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So there's there's a lot of layers to that whole trend.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I feel like it is it is, And also I
really believe in like body autonomy and being able to
post photos of yourself too. So also like who the
hell am I to judge anybody? And for the record,
I'm not. I'm always just like curious what people are
saying about things like that and about certain supplements, and
like I love going on like TikTok and seeing like
what's trending there. It actually informs a lot of what
(23:53):
people come in and are asking us about. Well.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Actually, one of the things that I feel like as
dieticians we are to minimize and write off as nonsense
is supplements, and for me, especially in the last year
going through some health related things, like I've become a
big supplement person, and like I'm not the mood to
(24:16):
get into like fights with other dieticians online.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So it's not something that I speak about very much.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But what are your your thoughts on supplementation, especially also
coming from like traditional RD. I think people a lot
of times, people in our field call taking vitamin's expensive
urine because they believe that it just you know.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Makes me crazy. I unfollow those ones.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
But I lovingly unfollow those ones.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, for my own mental well being. So I'm a
food first always, right, Like we're not skipping the basics.
I think that's really important. But supplements do come in second.
And the reality is a lot of our the foods
that we're eating, a lot of the produce and things
like that, Like there's real soil defletion happening, so the
foods we're eating now aren't quite as nutrient dense as
maybe they were thirty forty fifty years ago. And also
(25:02):
more stress than ever, less worse sleep than ever, lots
of environmental toxins, so much else is happening that I
think supplements can be really really useful, and we customize everything.
I've gone through an extensive functional and integrative medicine program
in order to be able to make recommendations. Dosing really matters.
But when I look at like herbs and herbal things
for anxiety, for depression, these things are really like they
(25:25):
go hand in hand or not go hand in hand.
They go like right up against things like prozac, things
like specific antidepressants, And there's so much that we can
do that's going to have less of an overall impact
or long term side effects on our body. So I
love starting with supplements before we're like really looking at medication.
It's sort of like a not only can it be preventative,
but also it can be really useful for something management,
(25:48):
for inflammation, for anxiety, depression, gut health, like so many
things that we can use some good supplements for. Quality
really matters though, and so does brands. So I don't
recommend just like buy things off of Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And I would assume also working with a mental health
professional so that it can be best discerned what a
person yes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Please and time and place for medication too. I don't
mean to downplay that. I think it's really important, and
also there's so many other things that we can do
that sometimes can be a really good like halfway step
or step down. We're trying to get off.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Things beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, so Indigo is soaring and you get to take
that portion of the business with you into nomadic life.
So first of all, where are you, where you going
and how are you operating your business this way?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, it's been amazing. So I'm in Lisbon right now.
I'm heading to this island called Madeira tomorrow and I'll
be there for ten days. And so this chapter right
now where it's really like very open ended. We've just
kind of made some decisions in the past couple of
days of like heading back to the States in two months.
But yeah, we're really going to travel for this little
chapter and then at some point we want to be
(26:58):
somewhere for like a month at a time. Like I
think backing and unpacking is going to get old really quickly,
as much as like it's fun and it's such a
once in a lifetime experience to be in Europe and
be able to just like hop on, oh my god,
lights are like twenty bucks from here to Avisa, Like
it's crazy and it's such a privilege to be able
to do something like this. And also I like works
my house off and created a business virtually in order
(27:19):
to be able to do something like this. And so
it feels like in some ways that Colorado step was
really like setting myself up to be able to take
my business on the road. And so I work with
clients right now Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is really long days
of zoom calls and stuff. But then that gives me,
you know, a four day weekend to go play and explore.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Wow, you're like young child just having so much fun.
And it's I remember a year ago seeing this girl
Ariel Lori the Blonde Files. I don't know if you follower,
and she's you know, has her own business too, and
she was like, I'm cramming all of my work Monday
to Thursday so that I could have Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
And I was like, whoa genius, Like why haven't I
thought of that? And something at try to you know,
(28:00):
play around with but even cooler to cram it into three.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Days for the summer. For the summer.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah, And obviously, like your unique situation is unique in
being able to do that, but like you also said
in the beginning, you're always a few choices away from
a different life, whatever that means, even if that different
life might look like more you know, if someone's listening
to this and they're thinking about going back to school
for something, like those couple of choices actually might mean
less free time for a couple of years until there
(28:28):
is some free freedom.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And you got to figure things out too, Like this
hasn't been even though this was a pretty like quick
turnaround in this making this decision, which was prompted by
our landlord being like, hey, I'm moving in to your
house and we were like, oh crap, what are we
going to do? And so this kind of just like
unfolded in real time as I was talking with my partner,
like where do we want to be, what do we
want to do? What do we want our lives to
look like? So it really kind of opened up from that.
(28:52):
And so I think like in those moments of sort
of transition that's handed to you or that's forced on you,
to really sit with like the question of the un
and like what's possible and how could it look in
all these different ways and give yourself a little space
between making decisions too. That's been something like space has
been I mean probably the biggest thing in the past
three years, both physical space, emotional space, taking personal space,
(29:15):
things like that. That has been like profound for me
to not be scared of space or alone time.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And even just thinking about like your living conditions in
New York City right where there's like no space in
your apartment, there's no space between your apartment and the
apartment next door you walk on the street, there's no
space to like how literal that is and metaphorical to
like your life then in Colorado and what the space
cultivated within your soul totally.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I mean it allows for expansiveness in all of the
ways and like different types of thought or you know,
different possibilities.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Really you're literally a different person from who you were,
but like the same person because like, yeah, I love you,
and like I always saw this for you.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think, yeah, thank you. Yeah. I mean I feel
like I've even nervous system wise, Like I've completely slowed down,
even taught I talk fast and regardless, but like I've
actually really slowed down as well.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes, And I remember we were talking once about your
like beauty ideals and things like botox, which are so
like normal to a New Yorker and becoming more comfortable
with like your hair growing out and not having botox
when you got to California or not not even sorry,
let me just check in.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Is this something you're comfortable talk about? Should I skip over.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
The Yeah, totally. But I also love botox, I mean
not that much, like not very much, but I see that.
I like, definitely, I'm not like outside, I'm not like
holier than now about a lot of those beauty I
just I think that like also time and place in
body autono me like sometimes I want to have just
a little bit and then sometimes I definitely don't. And
(30:47):
I think that like that's been also something that's been
so good for me to personally to be outside of
New York LA area and be like, okay, like most
people actually don't stick shit in her face. It's actually crazy,
Like most people's lips don't look crazy or like look
very different, and like is that okay? So I don't know,
I'm definitely like in the question of that, I'm in
(31:08):
the dance of that and like, and I don't think
there's anything I don't know. I think that that's kind
of I'm not happy to be there, and like, I really,
what's the saying. I reserve the right to change my
mind too, and so I think just like, yeah, I'm
also getting my late thirties. It's real shit changes.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I love that, especially because I think as women, it's
really confusing to be in a time a place where
like we are up against beauty ideals, but we are
going through the drastic changes at the same time, and
(31:49):
we are seeing ourselves more than ever, especially like on
social media. And I don't know, I just think that
it's really a complicated topic, also one that I haven't
spoken about much because like listening, learning, learning that dance,
like you said, and not knowing how I want to
be of quote unquote influence when talking about these things.
(32:11):
And I certainly don't want to like normalize it and
influence or say it's the healthy thing to do when
it's absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
The healthy thing.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, But at the same time, like hiding and lying
and not talking about it sends the wrong message too.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
So it's this thing that I struggle with.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think it's a
I'm like, I really respect people who come out and
talk about it, and it's something I think in the
wellness world is just like super taboo, especially in the
nutrition space too. It's like all we're talking about is
eating organic fruits and vegetables, and now everybody's on their
high hearts about not drinking alcohol, which is amazing. Also
I think that's so important and a great one. And
also then everybody's sticking like like you know, injecting their lips,
(32:50):
and so I just think it's like it's it's interesting,
and everybody also is allowed to be dynamic, right, yeah,
you know what where are we like allowing for so
like like there can be multiple truths at the same time,
and so I don't think like we also don't need
to feel guilty about that because it's something that like
I personally my inner like conversation about it is like, oh,
(33:12):
should definitely not talk about this. They're definitely not admit
that you do this. But the reality is also like
who cares. It's you know, people are allowed to make
their own decisions and to change their minds about things. Too.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Cool, Okay, I like the way that conversation meandered now
back to more depthy type things. So there has been
just like this overall vibe change from you truth telleriness
(33:47):
speaking about things that are nuanced but on the internet
world are very black and white. And I think there
are a couple of things that you have experienced and
worked with that have connected to do to self. So
what would you say has been the most shaping experience
in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind.
And like first probably is being in longer, long term
relationship has been really powerful for me to like he
my partner, Cue is just an amazing person to have
uncomfortable conversation like this man loves an uncomfortable conversation, and
it used to make me really lean out, like I
was really I didn't grow up that way. I you know,
(34:27):
I am not comfortable, like I don't like confrontation, and
he's really like taught me that it's safe to have
those confronting conversations and that he's not going anywhere and
that like he wants me to you know, be fully
embodied and have a voice in whatever it is that
we're going through. And he's not like afraid of feedback either.
So I would say that's been really really helpful for me.
(34:48):
But like in terms of more specific things. There have
been two things, But can.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We just pause on that just for a second, because
I think that that's huge and the distinction being like,
it's not that a partner changes you. Partner can be
a mirror for your spots that need to be worked on.
I just want to like illuminate what you were saying,
because it's so important, like finding a partner that makes
you feel safe in areas that you typically haven't explored
(35:14):
within yourself being able. I only because I've experienced this too,
being being with Evan, having a sturdy person that is
there when shit hits the fan, and we both come
from divorce parents. I don't know about you, but like
I didn't see healthy conflict resolution right, like seeing all
that really.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Does for me?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Tell me if it's the same increase your ability to
stay present in uncomfortable moments.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, and I love to Actually, you shared something this
past week about how you took space for yourself like
in the car in a like mid fight, and oh
my gosh, it like it hits so much. And that's
something that we've really worked on, is like taking literal
physical space in the fact that times for a couple
of weeks if needed, in order to just like really
see what's what and like see you know, just not
(36:01):
like we're in communication and stuff. It's not like a
you know, taking it out of like a fire, you know,
fire alarm going off, but taking like intentional space to
just have a beat and to like take some alone time.
But like, I loved so much the idea of you
being able to do it in real time in like
an enclosed space too with Evan.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Like it blew my mind that I that I could
do it too. And it's only even though it was
like my doing, it's because of the container that he
has created for us that I never would have been
able to have because of that. But to your point,
I think it's awesome to defy what many of us
were raised on, which is like always make up before bed,
hug kiss, and like close it at the end of
(36:41):
the night, when in our generation I can speak and
testify to the fact that sometimes you need both space
and time for extended periods of time to emotionally untangle
sort settle back into your own physical bodies to then
make like true choices of wanting to be together.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Amen. Yeah, absolutely, I think that's that's so so so important.
Wandering through here. So yeah, I think that the idea
of like actually, excuse I mean, that's been profound in
our relationship. So I think that perfect timing that he's
giving a little walkthrough.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
He can't hear me though, Yeah, We've got our headphones
and he can't hear anything I'm saying. Okay, So moving
on to the other things besides for a secure partnership,
for lack of a better world.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Here, Yeah, So a couple of other things that have
been amazing, and it's related to the partnership too, has
been psychedelics. And it's something that like I've gotten a
lot of questions about on Instagram and been kind of
scared to talk about, to be honest with you, because
I'm definitely not like an expert on it by any means.
But it's something that luckily, thanks to my partnership, I've
(37:45):
had an experience to try a couple of times in
more of a ceremony space versus like, oh, it's like
a night out at a club and we're gonna like
take some I don't know, MDMA or something like that.
But to do this really more like a ceremonial way.
We've worked with Shaman's and my partner's been through extensive
training in that way, and so I've been through a
couple of different sound ceremonies with psilocybin that have been
(38:08):
when you talk about like being you with you and
sort of like knowing that you have you, that has
been my overwhelming feeling in it of just like not
being scared of the mess and being able to sit
with myself through that and not being scared of the
yucky feelings or the unknown, but just like trusting that
like I've got me, and also like sort of more
(38:28):
in a more extensive way of like what's possible and
the ideas of like thinking of things in a new
way or in a new light, Like I think literally
what happens is new neural pathway's form when you take
these medicines. And so that's been really true for me
to see things in a new way or see things
from a new perspective, you know, both in relationship and friendships.
In massive appreciation for like my parents and especially for
(38:51):
my mom came through the less when I did, and
so really feeling in touch with like who I am
at my core and sort of getting rid of the
other things that maybe aren't as important. Has been beautiful
and huge, and probably what I would say is like
there's kind of like before and after for me with
some of these more like ceremonial experiences, and they say
set in setting is really important, which is about like
(39:12):
the mindset and the setting that you're in, and so
I think it is for me those have been like
it's been really cool to witness.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
So I feel like this could be an entire own
episode because I have a lot of questions and we're
keeping today to a short quickie path with a lot
of different topics, but just to explore a little bit
and just like get people's palates. What you know, that's
a disgusting phrase. Oh I hated that, but I don't
know a better ways say it. Whatever, silly sillo psilocybin. Okay,
(39:42):
everybody should know that. Like I have never done anything
like this. I personally have a deep respect for what
Carolyn has opened my eyes up to its ability, but
like I at this moment in time, I really don't
have a personal personal personal interest. Does not mean I
don't think it's great for other pe people. But because
of that, I don't know a lot people obviously like
(40:03):
mushrooms are very hot right now. A psilocybin a mushroom.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yes it's a mushroom, Yeah it is. And it is
considered like magic mushrooms, Like you've probably heard about it
in college. But I think now in the past couple
of years, there have been there's been a ton of
research on there, like mental health benefits, benefits for eating disorders,
Like it's really amazing. I really think that this is
going to be a huge part of the future of
met of like mental health things. And also it's not
(40:28):
for everybody, And I'm like the hugest proponent of like
I trust you to make the best decision for you.
And it's not something if you're not curious. If you're
not curious about it, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Not I'm not curious.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
But one of the things that I spoke to my
therapist about is that, like I think that for some
people who are more inhibited, you might I'm hesitant to
use this word, but like need assistance getting to those
parts of self. Whereas when I did Semitic breath work
and my yogurt at my retreat, like I felt like
(41:01):
I took myself to a place that you obviously I
can't say it's the same because I've never been there,
nor do I think it is exactly the same. But
I think I'm like able to get to these places
without personally like that type of assistance, and I feel
more in control, So that feels safer for me at.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
This point in time.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
But I really is so powerful. I absolutely agree.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But I really want to highlight that.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I see how powerful it could be for so many
of the things that you just described and knowing you've
shared with me that like when you do this, it's
like a six hour sich ceremony and at the someone's
cooking food and at the end you're eating the food,
and like it does sound so beautiful and different than
(41:49):
like drugs, right, Like it's so hard to distinguish.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I think there's like a really fine line. There's like
a very fine line, and even with people in this
space too, that I've started to like come across if
people are doing this all the time and it's like, Okay,
well what are you escaping? Like what are you looking for?
I think the other side of it, too, that I've
learned a lot about is like the integration piece of
like Okay, well what did you get from it, and
then what are you going to do with that information
versus like chasing you know, a high or doing it
(42:14):
as like a party jug which also like time and
place for that too. Like I think I've lost a
lot of my judgment on a lot of these things
that it's like doing what's really the best thing for you.
And sometimes that might be a fun night out, but
in these other situations, it's much more like a sacred
Like this is plant medicine. The stuff comes from the Earth.
Like in a lot of ways, it's not so different
from talking about supplements and food, Like we're using the
(42:34):
things that is on this planet and that people have
been using for thousands and thousands of years. So it
just like it makes a lot of sense to me
to go back to Earth for like, you know, a
lot of a lot of the healing you know, collectively
mental health wives and even like environmentally. To my experience
has been like this really reconnects you to being like
part of this planet.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
And you were living in Colorado where it was legal,
so you know that it's gone through safety things, right,
that's cool.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean so it's decriminalized there, which basically
just means that you can't. I mean you can't. You
can't sell it or anything like that. You do, that's
like no people to get your hands probably on good stuff.
I don't really have advice for that. My partner Q
has a podcast though, if you guys are interested, it's
called Inside. It's all about the world of psychedelicsh on
over there. I feel like this is not my expertise
for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Okay, we will hopefully maybe talk a little bit more
if people are interested in like the ceremonial side of it,
because like I said, I have my eyes have been
so opened and like you said, like lost judgment and
more curiosity, like I have a lot more and because
of knowing like what your experiences have been like. And
(43:43):
this question started by me saying, like what has inspired.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
The change that we are seeing today?
Speaker 3 (43:49):
And you know, hearing that it is by way of
these journeys which have connected your healed relationships with your
mother and helped you connect with parts of self. Like
I think it's so interesting to think of using substances
for lack of a better word here, I don't know,
as ways to get deeper in touch with yourself rather
than not escape. So that is just like a really
(44:12):
cool concept.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Oh totally. And you can even use tea ceremonies and
things like that too, like it doesn't always have to
and yoga practices and chanting and like all the things
that you've you know, bring to your retreats too.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
But also I do recognize that a lot of people
are more inhibited, and like being able to drop in
quickly is huge, like versus what it takes to get
your mindset and into a meditative trans It's different.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
It's different. I mean something I can say is like
a little comparative. I did another thing that was profound
for me. It was like was this week long retreat
called the Hoffman Institute the Huffman Process, and they compare
that to an ayahuasca retreat or an ayahusca ceremony. I
haven't done that, so I don't no, but it really
takes a week completely off your phone. You are like
in it in like a deep, deep way, going through
(45:06):
your family stuff, going through your patterns, your behaviors. And
that for me to like dig deep, dig out all
of the you know, stuff that has happened in my
life and you know, traumatic experiences, wonderful experience is to
really like go through that and sit with it. Instead
of like going to a therapy session and then getting
on your phone, you're forced to like sit with what
(45:27):
comes up.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Well, what's interesting? And I want to hear a little
bit more about Hoffman. Is that prior to you going
to Hoffman, we had talked about another popular I don't
know if I want to say self help, but like
popular self help community, I don't know, like similar, you know,
just as popular as Hoffman, but maybe more East Coast.
And you were like, this is not for me. And
(45:49):
I know previously people have tried to get me to
do that as well, and I was like, not for me,
Like what is the vibe difference between Hoffman and other
things that you have been.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Like, I forgot about that. I did tried a lot
last year, and actually so that's why this one for
me was really, really, really worked well. And so Hoffman
is different because it's like a spiritual vibe that comes
through and so it's really about like connecting to your
spiritual self in a big way in addition to doing
all of the sort of like therapeutic coachy, you know,
(46:18):
like that kind of work of breaking through patterns, you know,
limited beliefs, things, like that. So I think it's not
so dissimilar to a lot of the work that I've seen,
but it's like a condensed amount of time. And you're
also they really believe in the catharsis and physically moving
through things. So I'm talking like without giving too much away,
this is pretty easy to find. It's like you're like
beating the shit out of a pillow with a baseball
back kind of thing to like move through stuff that
(46:40):
you're holding on.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
To at afman that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, yeah, so it's all like a lot of about physical.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Oh, and you don't want to give stuff away because
it's like part of the secret or just like if
you go through it, you yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
You want to not know what to expect when you
go through it. I think that's a really under granted
part of it, but it's equal parts. It's sort of like, yeah,
there's just like kind of an understood thing of like
not giving too much away because for people who go
through it it can be like really, I mean for me,
it was like pretty life changing in terms of like
a level of sovereignty and self ownership, like self responsibility
(47:12):
and also just like separation in my partnership too. Like
showing up as a separate individual versus like solely part
of this you know, sometimes great mostly great relationship, but
that was having you know, some real hard times and
so it's for me to do that and like completely
sort of separate and then choose to rebuild was like
a really big thing this past year or two.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
That was like huge. You said that all really fast.
But if we could just like if everyone you don't
have to go back, but like to hear what you
just said is absolutely gigantic because if we pieced together,
even like without me knowing you pieces of this conversation,
like we know that like New York, you could not
find your person. Everybody was incompatible and there was you know,
fuck boys for lack of a better word, here just
(47:53):
guys that like we're not showing up, you know, and
you're amazing. So it was just like ridiculous. Then you
meet this partner and he's you know, very emotionally capable
and whatever. It allows you to grow into self in
a much more whole way, but it's with him, and
that can be become toxic and it's set in itself.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
You can become co dependent in that way.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Absolutely. Yeah, that was a really big problem. Yeah, I'm
not taking you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
As you were, by the way, I'm just speaking generally truly.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Well I was, so it doesn't matter personal It felt
like we really sort of collapsed into each other because
we were in the pandemican we were pandemic romance, so
all of our time was together is beautiful, Like I
wouldn't change a thing, but there was definitely like not THEO.
I mean, he moved in after three weeks, so like
there was just like instant sort of on top of
each other. And I think it was the first serious
(48:44):
relationship I'd been in such a long time that like
I did lose myself in that and had to sort of,
you know, rechoose it. And I remember we have we
have an amazing couple of therapists that's been really huge
for our relationship too. And I remember saying like, I
just like want this to be like a fuck yes relationship,
and she was just like, WHOA, we don't actually want
fuck yes. We want like a full body to I
(49:06):
choose this yes instead of like the early days fuck
yas like I'm so excited about this honeymoon phase. Yes.
And so we really had to like step back and
equally decide, and it took a while too. There's a
lot of time of unknown about like deep respect and love.
But just like we'll see hmmmmm, that's okay, Like, well,
(49:28):
there's nothing wrong with it. We'll see chapter two. I think,
like I think those of us who really like to
know the answer and know that we're going to be okay,
Like that's where some of these tools and practices and
supplements have come in to make let me know, like, hey,
I'm good and a relationship is an amazing addition to
my life. And I would love to have you know,
family and all of that, and I'm good no matter what.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I remember you saying that to me, like I'm good
no matter what at some point over the last amount
of time I don't know how long, and me being like, wow,
she is good, and like really seeing that for not
just somebody you love, which I do love you, but
like even if I didn't, and you were just like
a random person I met once and you were this
a female and you could say that it's so invigorating,
(50:11):
inspiring and uplifting to see a woman and feel that
from a woman, and it defies everything we've been told,
how we've been raised, even if we grew up in
cultures where there were strong women around us, Like, I
don't think that that's something really I never saw it
really modeled or verbalized. And I was like, wow, you really,
(50:33):
you know, did the work. Everything we've talked about today,
plus a million things that weren't spoken about in the
Alaska all because of that huge change from leaving New
York and saying goodbye to the only life you knew
near your family, in a very comfortable job in the
best city in the world.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy to think back, and I mean
it's I love that You're kind of this demarcation point
for me. I remember Mommy had that last conversation and
I was really just getting settled in that the early
stages of that life and in this relationship and all
of that. There's just been green lights along the way.
That's really the best I can explain it. Like, even
from New York, it's like I did I got an
apartment on FaceTime, Like I just packed everything I had
(51:15):
in the car with my dog and we went across
the country and it was just like that, when there's
that that feeling, it's like hard to even put words
on it. I feel like intuition is even a big
enough word for it. It's like inner.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Knowing when it's not a choice anymore. It's just like
you're going you don't, yeah, just follow the sence. I
don't know if you remember from your yoga teacher training
or you were years ago you did your two hundred, right,
do you remember the pose like hanaman or hanam and asana?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I did a lame training. What is that? Oh?
Speaker 3 (51:41):
I actually didn't know it from my first either, which
didn't focus on Sanskrit. But it's like splits pos like
doing a split. But the story behind it is something
about Hanuman, like taking a leap. I'm getting Hanaman vibes
from you. It's just like you took this huge leap
of faith and I'm totally butchering the story and it's
deeper meaning, but like I'm just picturing you as Hanaman.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
That's all.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
If anybody listening is like yes, or like she's crazy, whatever.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
I love that. I'll take that on. Yeah, it's cool.
I mean it feels like also, it's just been like
there's been like a wind behind my back for a
lot of these big decisions, So it doesn't I mean, yes,
there's a piece of like getting ducks in a row
and like making sure you know, I'm going to have
enough money and things like that for sure, Like I
have to be working and things like like that's important
(52:26):
and it's important to me of course too. But I
think like that's that's just something important to keep in
mind too, of like, don't do this with no safety net.
You need to have like some net in place.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
You really did it as a full functioning adult. This
was not a childish move. This was a mature leap,
but like really just a culmination of all of your
life work.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
Okay, so I've taken an hour of your time.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
I don't want to take any more, but thank you
because I feel like your energy everybody will be able
to feel it. I feel it like I'm so enlivened
by this conversation and in spy and not that there's
any change that I could make that looks like yours
right now.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Maybe it's just making a different decision. Maybe it's like
choosing a different drink tomorrow. You know, it doesn't always
have to be these massive things.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
It's just the energy being around somebody expansive is just
contagious and like whatever that looks like for me. When
I leave this conversation, it's going to look like for
me and everybody. You know, some people are probably going
to pack up their things and move and others are
going to like you know, write in their journal more whatever.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool knowing what's important for you. But yeah,
give it a shot too. Like there's nothing like you
know that you're never going to regret, like making a
big decision. I don't think most of the time that's
gonna put you somewhere new with new people, and like
it's actually a lot of times the hard part is
like the choice and then the once it's like in action,
it actually, in my experience is way easier.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Whenever I travel, I have such like more creative brain
spurts and connection to self, and I'm certainly seeing that
come through your Instagram, even though your journey of nomadic
living like just began. So I want to just encourage
everybody to follow along on Carolyn's story specifically, but also
her posts to get like a continuous drip of this
(54:11):
exciting liveliness that's coming through you.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Wow, thank you so much, Thank.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
You so much for living your truthiest life for the
third time. This was really a huge, great conversation.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Thank you, thank you, Love you so much.
No, even when times geitheard and you feel you're in
the c see just how beautiful life can be. When
you safen your heart, you can finally start.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To live your tu seious life.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hello everybody, welcome back to The Truthius Life. It's your host,
Lisa Haim and this week is a different episode than usual.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I'm bringing back on.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Carolyn Brown, one of my best friends who has been
a guest on The Truthius Life before. But this episode
is different because Carolyn and I are in very different
phases of life right now, and we live in different states,
and we have.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Not had a formal catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And for the last couple of weeks, I've I've seen
her on social media. Of course, I watch her stories
and her post and there's just something distinctly different about her,
the way she talks, the energy that's coming with her,
the way that she even looks. And I truly needed
to catch up with her as she's nomadic living. She
left Boulder, she's traveling the world with her partner, and
(01:19):
I really wanted the opportunity to have a live catch
up with her and ask a lot of the questions
that I have for how did she change her life
so drastically to the point that I feel it in
everything that she does, says, and even the way that
she looks. So by recording this conversation, we really get
into it, and Carolyn really inspires us to think about
(01:41):
our choices, what we do with our energy, and.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
What I really love.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The most inspiring part is her belief that we are
only a few choices away from a different life. And
obviously some of us aren't going to be packing our
bags and moving on to a nomadic living situation. But
I think that from my point of view where I
sit as a mother living in suburbia, not going anywhere
(02:05):
physically or making drastic changes to my life or home structure,
I totally agree with this. Sometimes simple choices can drastically
change your life from the inside out, and that really
comes out comes down to perspective and the dimension that
we are living with him and the vibration that we
(02:27):
are emitting into the world, and what we do changes that.
So anyway, this episode is really fun. We talk about
unpopular opinions. We talk about this incredible business that she's
co created with her sister and the impact that they're
making on women's health. We talk about botogs, we talk
about romantic partnerships and learning how to fight and stay
(02:49):
present in them. We talk about psychedelics and how they
have impacted her and the one thing that she recommends
everybody does to truly get the most clarity and make
change in your life. I hope you love this episode
as much as I loved having this conversation with Carolyn.
Like I said, it's a little bit different than what
it's a lot different than what I usually do. It's raw,
(03:11):
it's organic, and it is truly the conversations that I'm
having with my best friends, specifically in this episode, my
best friend Carolyn. Hope you love it as much as
I do, and I'll see you back here next week
for our season finale of The Truthiest Life before we
go on summer break. Well, this is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Hey, Carolyn, Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, the purpose of this is because I really need
to catch up with you, and I'm also very inspired
by you and proud of you and have a lot
of questions that I think our listeners would also benefit
to hear the answers from. But selfishly, I really just
want to catch up with you since you moved to
(03:56):
Lisbon aka liz Boa.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Liz Boa. Did you know that nobody says that really here?
I guess the people who are from here.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I have Carolyn on find my friends, and it is
a privilege that I do not abuse. But it tells
me that she's in liz Boa, And I was like,
what is liz Boa?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Apparently that's the proper name.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
What is it? Yeah, I guess that's the proper name.
That's how it would be said in Portuguese. I don't know.
I'm not an expert on this. We're passing through here.
We're really more on a nomadic adventure than we are
moving to Lisbon. But it's so magical here and it's
just such a good reminder for me of like life
can look like so many different things.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You posted that on your story in the last twenty
four hours, like how quickly your life can change, and
I was like, damn, that hits, But it also doesn't
when you're like in my shoes and have you know,
like more roots here with a baby and the complexities
of all of that.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
But it still felt good because there is truth to it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Even if I'm resisting what you're saying because of very
specific logistical reasons, life can look different even if you're
physically in the same place totally.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It could even be mindset related. So I think it
doesn't have to look like this massive, you know, exploration
of the globe, but to feel like you really do
have some say in what your life looks like and
there's like some real choice plants, Like I really do
believe you're just a few choices away from a totally
different life, no matter what that life currently looks like.
That could be job, that could be relationship, that could
(05:21):
be friendships, that could be yoga, teacher training, Like, it
really doesn't have to be anything so monumental.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I love that just a few choices away from a
different life. And I like that you said the word
choice instead of habit, because though when people say habit,
I feel like lately in the wellness world it's becoming
like a little dogmatic about like habits, habit stacking, efficiency
(05:51):
and those those words just itch me a little bit,
But choices hits me differently.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Well, I'm glad and I totally feel you on that.
I think it feels like very masculine, like the optimization
and the habit secing and the biohacking, and like I
think what I witness for you is just like really
reentering that like feminine, sort of like flowy. And I
feel that personally also in the stage of life, that
we're both sort of mirroring each other in very different ways,
(06:19):
which is really really cool that it doesn't have to
be so like girl Boss. It's more like lay in
the forest and roll around in the leaves.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I'm definitely loving the move away from the girl boss
and the hustle. I mean that word hustle never felt
right for me, even as I was growing a business
and putting a lot of my love towards it. But
I guess that word hustle feels like friction. It doesn't
feel like balanced. It feels like chase your dreams period.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Whereas sorry, I.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Feel like I'm stealing this conversation, so let's bring this
back to in one second. But actually, what I'm doing
right now is like letting a couple of my dreams
die and that feels so good.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Wow, wait, can you tell me Mark?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay, yeah, okay, but then we're going back to you
because I want to get on it.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I just have had a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Of ideas lately, specifically one a business idea that I
have like tried to let go of and it's come back,
and I've tried to like go and it's come back.
And every time I let go, it literally like re
enters my brain. And I think this time for real,
for now at least, like I just putting closure on
the idea is actually very freeing because I see a
(07:32):
lot of moms doing it all, and like, power to them.
I look up to them, not because I want to
be them, but because like they're in their element.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
But it's just not me.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I'm not good at doing two things at once and
finding the balance between the two. And I'm just in
my season of like a lot of motherhood and taking
on something new would steal away from like where I
need to be physically, mentally, spiritually, energetically. So like just
letting that dream die feels really good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It feels really good, and also it can be and
not right now. I don't know if that's the cause
of your situation, but also many things get to be
like a not right now, maybe in the future, maybe
at another life stage or have you ever read Big
Magic though Elizabeth Gilbert, But she does that like kind
of idea hopping, and I think she's a better, more magical
way of saying it. But basically, if you don't act
on any idea, it's probably going to jump to someone
else and they'll get to act on it. That was
(08:26):
like her experience personally or professionally with some book ideas,
and it's something that I've seen like when oftentimes when
there's like a there's like a collective idea that happens
from the opposite sides of the world that multiple people
have at the same time, and so I don't know
if there's something there too. I'm even actually seeing that
with like doing this nomad life, choosing this, we have
randomly like a lot of friends choosing to do this
(08:46):
too at the same moment. So it's sort of like
there's this collective like idea of like, wow, there's different
ways to do things.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So why I wanted to have you on bringing it
back to you and your wisdom and your flow and
your energy is because you just embarked on living nomadically,
which you'll explain to us. I also wanted to go
back a little bit because even though we had you
on the show when you first moved to Boulder and
like all the magic that had like kind of just
ensued you just found your partner after years of New
(09:15):
York looking for the right person and finding all of
the wrongest persons. Positive you were just starting to be
in like this alchemy of great change with your job,
with your partnership, with yourself really most importantly, it was
kind of cool to capture it then. But now we're
out to ish May two and a half years. I
(09:36):
think since that initial interview, I believe, I just feel
like the last couple months six months, you have really
embodied yourself in a different way, and it has come
through on social media, which is really cool, not just
from like a business point of view, but also you
have this incredible business indigo that I think more people
(09:57):
need to know about, and there's a truth telling that
you're speaking from without fear. From what I know, like
mostly your beliefs haven't changed, but your ability to speak
them out into a space where it might not be
the quote unquote popular opinion or the trending opinion has
(10:18):
gotten louder, and that can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Thank you. That's it's interesting because I don't feel I
feel actually I'm like more personally private on social media
than I ever have been, and also professional, like professionally
now I've been in this field of nutrition for twelve
thirteen years, which is crazy, but you get more comfortable
and more opinionated and more sure too of also it
doesn't work and what I don't agree with, and so
(10:43):
I think I feel a whole lot more clear and
comfortable and like empowered to speak my mind on those things.
And also just as it being in business too and
in relationship and you know, just getting used to having
difficult conversations and things like that too. Like that's like
a real edge for me. That's a thing that maybe
has even come up a lot in the past like
two three years. That's really like changed me to get
(11:06):
more comfortable speaking my mind and speaking the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, to get a little bit more granular and specific.
You have always helped people lose weight, and I think
most people here know that, Like I see me in
like the anti diet space, and I am, but that
doesn't necessarily mean that like I personally for other people
an anti weight loss period period period, obviously, I think
(11:32):
there's a greater conversation and context to be had there.
But when people personally come to me and ask me
for a weight loss dietitian, and that is primarily what
they are looking for the on just about you and
maybe one other person, Like that's who I send to
because I know or I feel confident that your version
(11:55):
of health and health behaviors is going to be largely
positive on them, not just from a weight loss point
of view, but from an understanding their own body wisdom
point of view as well.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's so important. Yeah, I know the body wisdom piece,
I think is something that I hope that we do
really differently at Indigo. It's something really important to me.
Of yes, I have external wisdom, Lisa, you have excert
we have all that wisdom, but like to really get
someone in touch with their own internal wisdom in addition
to yes, maybe for someone I don't know, intermittent fasting
could be good hypothetically, or maybe for someone this supplement
(12:30):
could be good. But more than anything, like I always
tell every single client, like your inner wisdom and like
I trust you to make those decisions for yourself. Your
inner wism trumps anything I could ever say, And so
that's what I think also makes it work.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And I think for a couple of years, like as
intuitive eating quote unquote picked up like the word weight
loss became a word that like people were afraid to use,
and I think I felt, yeah, yeah, didn't I didn't
want to say that, but I think there was like
this level of confusion as well as you sort it out,
like what is my relationship to this word and the field?
(13:05):
But now I feel like you've e merged with a
good handle and sense on how you approach this.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I mean, I would say for the most part,
like we do see some just strictly weight loss, but
it's never about the weight, right, Like it's about you know,
eating issues when you were a kid, it's about stress levels,
it's about lack of sleep, post part and hormones like
blah blah blah. And also we do a ton of
gut testing now, we do Dutch tests, we do gimap,
we do We're looking much more in the functional and
(13:33):
integrative way of like what's going on underneath the hood.
Like if someone's coming to us and like isn't losing weight,
like that's actually usually indicative of a much bigger or
an issue going on underneath, then nothing's wrong with you.
You're not crazy, you're not messed up. Like I really
believe our bodies are always trying to come back into balance.
They're capable of that, but sometimes they do need a
little bit of a nudge.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Okay, But is the goal always weight loss or that
is sometimes just like the signal that something under the
hood isn't right. Is the goal always weight loss or
that is sometimes just like the signal that something under
(14:17):
the hood isn't right.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, honestly, it's a conversation. It's been a difficult conversation
with several clients recently that like, hey, we have to
get the health piece right, and then weight comes second
to that. And often what we see is like you
get the inside right, you get those pieces right, and
the outside does fall into place, Like the piece does
fall into place when we're focused on the health behaviors
or you know, the healing of these chronic gut issues
(14:39):
or whatever it might be. So like I'm even moving
away from like interest weight loss wise quite honestly, Like
it's you hal for a while. Yeah, Yeah, I just
I'm like, I like, of course I understand that it's
important to people, and I don't want to dismiss that,
and I would rather them do it through me. Slash us.
We have another wonderful dietician on our team, and so
I'd rather be done in a really healthy, ful way.
(15:00):
But it's not like it's not fun for me anymore.
It's just not interesting. I'm like, Okay, I want you
to feel great because I want you to feel confident
in the world and be proud of who you arec
show up in this world and like be exactly who
you are and do the things that you're meant to
do here.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And to like feel comfortable in your physical body is
I think a huge thing that like the online Intuitive
eating space dismisses, And it's not something that I speak
too often because I do occupy a smaller body. Even
if I don't feel good in my own personal body
at certain moments, it's still a smaller body, you know,
in a world that prioritizes that or idealizes that, and
(15:39):
for somebody in a bigger body for whatever reason, you know,
it's not just as easy as self acceptance, especially if
there's been a weight change that even if that a
certain size that didn't fit societal norms, was you know,
was there comfortability? There is not feeling right in your body,
not because of what's this society says, but from the
(16:01):
inside out.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
We're in different bodies than a lot of times people
are who are really struggling with this, and also you know,
and you don't feel great, and that's enough for me
to like help support people making a change. I really
really think like our bodies are giving us so much
information all the time, and it's up to us to
really listen. And then you don't have to want to
lose weight. But also if you do, there's nothing wrong
with you, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're not
(16:24):
like inherently a victim to diet culture because you want
to change your body.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Okay, Well, I think it's cool for people to hear
you say that, because there's that inner battle of a
lot of people are fighting themselves of like I don't
want to be a victim to diet culture, but they
are still not feeling right in their own bodies on
there and they're stuck. So just having the permission to
say I want to lose weight, you know, I think
can just then open the door to Okay, what else
(16:50):
is going on in your life? Like that health conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, And I love looking at all the other
puzzle pieces in people's lives too, Like clients for me,
it's really like therapy. It's like I know their partner's name,
I know their dog's name, I know their baby's name,
like I know what's going on, because that really informs
the full pictures. It's not just about the food. In fact,
it's rarely about the food at all.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So Indigo is your latest venture these last couple of years,
and it's different from just being a dietitian practice nutrition practice.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What is Indigo?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh my god, it's been so wonderful. So Indigo is
a wellness group I formed with my sister who's an acupuncturist,
and Sarah is the most amazing doctor of Chinese medicine.
But we've also just sort of expanded really organically with
more acupuncturists, another dietitian. We have therapists, we have pelvic
floor petees, so it's really like women's health, what we
(17:43):
want to where we would want to go. We have
energy healer, we have craniou sake guilt therapy, we have
massage therapists. Now it's just like the right people have
always come to the table, and so it's one of
those things in my life similar to like this adventure
that I'm on right now where it's just like the
green lights follow the green lights. And so we have
two offices now in etiquette, and then I work with
everybody virtually, and so it's just been this beautiful sort
(18:04):
of you know, women helping women, supporting women. And what
we do that's different is really collaborative care. So we
have a lot of overlap in our clients. A lot
of us see the same people, and so we can
have really like informed conversations and I can get you know,
a Chinese medicine perspective on something that's so different from
the education we got, and so that's really really helpful
(18:25):
for someone to just feel really like well supported and
like they're part of like a I mean it's a
family business.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, I mean people are I feel like really waking
up to Indigo and what you guys are doing because
it is so uniquely different. It's not even functional medicine.
I think the Chinese medicine approach really distinguishes you guys
in a way. And all the testing that you're doing there,
can you tell us about some of the testing?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah? Sure, I mean, to be honest, you like we
don't I don't even like like to lead with testing
a lot of the time because I think there's so
much again like talking to your body's inner wisdom that
we can get first, and you don't need these like
super fancy expensive tests all the time, but then sometimes
we do. And so we're especially really focused on that GIMAC,
which is a gut microbiome test, and it can tell
us all about you know, the good gut bacteria that
(19:12):
we want to see there and also some of the
bad guys. So everything from like cibo bacterial overgrowth, Candidas
and like fung guy yase, the situations I can tell
us about gut inflammation. It's like super nerdy, but it's
like one of my favorite things. Like I love seeing
this on my friends because be like I know them
from the inside out and it just makes so much
sense a lot of the information that we're learning, and
then we can really support people with a gut healing protocol.
(19:35):
And so if you're someone who's like suffering from IBS,
like a lot of the things, especially like on Instagram,
I'll see these girls posting like their bloat that's like
it's normal after a meal, and I'm like, it is
not normal, Like that is not normal to look six
months pregnant after a dinner or throughout the day. And
so that's like one of my biggest pet peeves. So
that if you are really uncomfortable, if something just like
(19:56):
doesn't maybe feel normal, like, get that checked out, talk
to somebody.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So as one of those people that has posted something
similar to that that you dislike years ago, I remember
I posted my bloating and said this is normal. I
want to speak slash have a conversation about that.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
If you're willing.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, absolutely, the sentiment that I was trying to share
at that point in time. It's nothing I've said recently,
simply because a lot of things have changed in my
life and I'm listening more than i'm speaking when it
comes to food, body blah blah blah. But my sentiment
here and the one that I share, is that like,
the stomach is the size of a fist, and when
(20:34):
I would eat any meal, I would look in the
mirror and notice stomach distension a lot of the time,
and I would call it maybe bloating or sting. I
would think as I got older, more educated, I called
it stomach distension. And I was trying to normalize stomach
distension after a meal rather than using that body checking
moment as oh my gosh, like my body changed, I
(20:56):
need to go on a diet.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, I know that when I used to post things
like that, they quote unquote performed really well. And when
things perform really well, it they become trendy topics to
talk about. As things become trendy topics to talk about,
the nuance of the conversation gets lost and it becomes
right wrong and black and white. So I think with
like this bloating conversation, these younger girls have lost the
(21:23):
nuance to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Absolutely, And I think that there's like stomach distension totally
normal extended bloat where you like actually look very pregnant,
like I actually I have pictures of this from a
night a parasite that I've posted to where like it
is not you can tell something's wrong right, And so
that's more what I'm looking for versus like, oh, yes,
your stomach should be descended. And I think there is
(21:47):
some normalizing that of like, no, you're putting food in
your body if you like weigh that amount of food.
It's like when someone gets on the scale after eating,
and like, of course the scale's going to go up
and your stomach's going to get descended because it's doing
like the most amazing job of breaking down, processing and
absorbing all of these these things and keeping you alive
and keeping you functioning right right, And so that's really important,
(22:07):
and I like appreciate that sort of mentality. And then
when there's other sorts there's a couple of like big
time influencers too that I see that it is like
I'm like, that's not healthy. You see that you have
something wrong, And so that's more of what I'm referring to,
Like I can kind of start it now of like
that's not stomach dissension, that's like lower you know, GI,
that's lower intestinal dissension and something you probably have, like
(22:32):
you might have a gluten intolerance. I mean, I can't
diagnose on on Instagram obviously, but just sometimes that's what
goes through my.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Head, right, And like I think one of the reasons
I also don't post things like that anymore outside of
like what you are necessarily saying is because like the
greater conversation of all of that is like still a
hyperfixation on the body and body check and you should
be in check with your own body and notice if
(22:59):
something is wrong. But I feel like I'm like I'm
more in touch with my body and its signals, but
less in tune to its physical It's temporary physical changes
such as stomach distension or bloating after a meal. And
so when you see somebody online doing the bloating is normal,
stomach distension is normal. It's like this preaching the vibe
(23:22):
I get, but then like still a preoccupation with it
if you are capturing it and sharing this message.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So there's there's a lot of layers to that whole trend.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I feel like it is it is, And also I
really believe in like body autonomy and being able to
post photos of yourself too. So also like who the
hell am I to judge anybody? And for the record,
I'm not. I'm always just like curious what people are
saying about things like that and about certain supplements, and
like I love going on like TikTok and seeing like
what's trending there. It actually informs a lot of what
(23:53):
people come in and are asking us about. Well.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Actually, one of the things that I feel like as
dieticians we are to minimize and write off as nonsense
is supplements, and for me, especially in the last year
going through some health related things, like I've become a
big supplement person, and like I'm not the mood to
(24:16):
get into like fights with other dieticians online.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So it's not something that I speak about very much.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But what are your your thoughts on supplementation, especially also
coming from like traditional RD. I think people a lot
of times, people in our field call taking vitamin's expensive
urine because they believe that it just you know.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Makes me crazy. I unfollow those ones.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
But I lovingly unfollow those ones.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, for my own mental well being. So I'm a
food first always, right, Like we're not skipping the basics.
I think that's really important. But supplements do come in second.
And the reality is a lot of our the foods
that we're eating, a lot of the produce and things
like that, Like there's real soil defletion happening, so the
foods we're eating now aren't quite as nutrient dense as
maybe they were thirty forty fifty years ago. And also
(25:02):
more stress than ever, less worse sleep than ever, lots
of environmental toxins, so much else is happening that I
think supplements can be really really useful, and we customize everything.
I've gone through an extensive functional and integrative medicine program
in order to be able to make recommendations. Dosing really matters.
But when I look at like herbs and herbal things
for anxiety, for depression, these things are really like they
(25:25):
go hand in hand or not go hand in hand.
They go like right up against things like prozac, things
like specific antidepressants, And there's so much that we can
do that's going to have less of an overall impact
or long term side effects on our body. So I
love starting with supplements before we're like really looking at medication.
It's sort of like a not only can it be preventative,
but also it can be really useful for something management,
(25:48):
for inflammation, for anxiety, depression, gut health, like so many
things that we can use some good supplements for. Quality
really matters though, and so does brands. So I don't
recommend just like buy things off of Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And I would assume also working with a mental health
professional so that it can be best discerned what a
person yes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Please and time and place for medication too. I don't
mean to downplay that. I think it's really important, and
also there's so many other things that we can do
that sometimes can be a really good like halfway step
or step down. We're trying to get off.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Things beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, so Indigo is soaring and you get to take
that portion of the business with you into nomadic life.
So first of all, where are you, where you going
and how are you operating your business this way?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, it's been amazing. So I'm in Lisbon right now.
I'm heading to this island called Madeira tomorrow and I'll
be there for ten days. And so this chapter right
now where it's really like very open ended. We've just
kind of made some decisions in the past couple of
days of like heading back to the States in two months.
But yeah, we're really going to travel for this little
chapter and then at some point we want to be
(26:58):
somewhere for like a month at a time. Like I
think backing and unpacking is going to get old really quickly,
as much as like it's fun and it's such a
once in a lifetime experience to be in Europe and
be able to just like hop on, oh my god,
lights are like twenty bucks from here to Avisa, Like
it's crazy and it's such a privilege to be able
to do something like this. And also I like works
my house off and created a business virtually in order
(27:19):
to be able to do something like this. And so
it feels like in some ways that Colorado step was
really like setting myself up to be able to take
my business on the road. And so I work with
clients right now Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is really long days
of zoom calls and stuff. But then that gives me,
you know, a four day weekend to go play and explore.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Wow, you're like young child just having so much fun.
And it's I remember a year ago seeing this girl
Ariel Lori the Blonde Files. I don't know if you follower,
and she's you know, has her own business too, and
she was like, I'm cramming all of my work Monday
to Thursday so that I could have Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
And I was like, whoa genius, Like why haven't I
thought of that? And something at try to you know,
(28:00):
play around with but even cooler to cram it into three.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Days for the summer. For the summer.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah, And obviously, like your unique situation is unique in
being able to do that, but like you also said
in the beginning, you're always a few choices away from
a different life, whatever that means, even if that different
life might look like more you know, if someone's listening
to this and they're thinking about going back to school
for something, like those couple of choices actually might mean
less free time for a couple of years until there
(28:28):
is some free freedom.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And you got to figure things out too, Like this
hasn't been even though this was a pretty like quick
turnaround in this making this decision, which was prompted by
our landlord being like, hey, I'm moving in to your
house and we were like, oh crap, what are we
going to do? And so this kind of just like
unfolded in real time as I was talking with my partner,
like where do we want to be, what do we
want to do? What do we want our lives to
look like? So it really kind of opened up from that.
(28:52):
And so I think like in those moments of sort
of transition that's handed to you or that's forced on you,
to really sit with like the question of the un
and like what's possible and how could it look in
all these different ways and give yourself a little space
between making decisions too. That's been something like space has
been I mean probably the biggest thing in the past
three years, both physical space, emotional space, taking personal space,
(29:15):
things like that. That has been like profound for me
to not be scared of space or alone time.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And even just thinking about like your living conditions in
New York City right where there's like no space in
your apartment, there's no space between your apartment and the
apartment next door you walk on the street, there's no
space to like how literal that is and metaphorical to
like your life then in Colorado and what the space
cultivated within your soul totally.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I mean it allows for expansiveness in all of the
ways and like different types of thought or you know,
different possibilities.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Really you're literally a different person from who you were,
but like the same person because like, yeah, I love you,
and like I always saw this for you.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think, yeah, thank you. Yeah. I mean I feel
like I've even nervous system wise, Like I've completely slowed down,
even taught I talk fast and regardless, but like I've
actually really slowed down as well.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes, And I remember we were talking once about your
like beauty ideals and things like botox, which are so
like normal to a New Yorker and becoming more comfortable
with like your hair growing out and not having botox
when you got to California or not not even sorry,
let me just check in.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Is this something you're comfortable talk about? Should I skip over.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
The Yeah, totally. But I also love botox, I mean
not that much, like not very much, but I see that.
I like, definitely, I'm not like outside, I'm not like
holier than now about a lot of those beauty I
just I think that like also time and place in
body autono me like sometimes I want to have just
a little bit and then sometimes I definitely don't. And
(30:47):
I think that like that's been also something that's been
so good for me to personally to be outside of
New York LA area and be like, okay, like most
people actually don't stick shit in her face. It's actually crazy,
Like most people's lips don't look crazy or like look
very different, and like is that okay? So I don't know,
I'm definitely like in the question of that, I'm in
(31:08):
the dance of that and like, and I don't think
there's anything I don't know. I think that that's kind
of I'm not happy to be there, and like, I really,
what's the saying. I reserve the right to change my
mind too, and so I think just like, yeah, I'm
also getting my late thirties. It's real shit changes.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I love that, especially because I think as women, it's
really confusing to be in a time a place where
like we are up against beauty ideals, but we are
going through the drastic changes at the same time, and
(31:49):
we are seeing ourselves more than ever, especially like on
social media. And I don't know, I just think that
it's really a complicated topic, also one that I haven't
spoken about much because like listening, learning, learning that dance,
like you said, and not knowing how I want to
be of quote unquote influence when talking about these things.
(32:11):
And I certainly don't want to like normalize it and
influence or say it's the healthy thing to do when
it's absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
The healthy thing.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, But at the same time, like hiding and lying
and not talking about it sends the wrong message too.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
So it's this thing that I struggle with.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think it's a
I'm like, I really respect people who come out and
talk about it, and it's something I think in the
wellness world is just like super taboo, especially in the
nutrition space too. It's like all we're talking about is
eating organic fruits and vegetables, and now everybody's on their
high hearts about not drinking alcohol, which is amazing. Also
I think that's so important and a great one. And
also then everybody's sticking like like you know, injecting their lips,
(32:50):
and so I just think it's like it's it's interesting,
and everybody also is allowed to be dynamic, right, yeah,
you know what where are we like allowing for so
like like there can be multiple truths at the same time,
and so I don't think like we also don't need
to feel guilty about that because it's something that like
I personally my inner like conversation about it is like, oh,
(33:12):
should definitely not talk about this. They're definitely not admit
that you do this. But the reality is also like
who cares. It's you know, people are allowed to make
their own decisions and to change their minds about things. Too.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Cool, Okay, I like the way that conversation meandered now
back to more depthy type things. So there has been
just like this overall vibe change from you truth telleriness
(33:47):
speaking about things that are nuanced but on the internet
world are very black and white. And I think there
are a couple of things that you have experienced and
worked with that have connected to do to self. So
what would you say has been the most shaping experience
in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind.
And like first probably is being in longer, long term
relationship has been really powerful for me to like he
my partner, Cue is just an amazing person to have
uncomfortable conversation like this man loves an uncomfortable conversation, and
it used to make me really lean out, like I
was really I didn't grow up that way. I you know,
(34:27):
I am not comfortable, like I don't like confrontation, and
he's really like taught me that it's safe to have
those confronting conversations and that he's not going anywhere and
that like he wants me to you know, be fully
embodied and have a voice in whatever it is that
we're going through. And he's not like afraid of feedback either.
So I would say that's been really really helpful for me.
(34:48):
But like in terms of more specific things. There have
been two things, But can.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We just pause on that just for a second, because
I think that that's huge and the distinction being like,
it's not that a partner changes you. Partner can be
a mirror for your spots that need to be worked on.
I just want to like illuminate what you were saying,
because it's so important, like finding a partner that makes
you feel safe in areas that you typically haven't explored
(35:14):
within yourself being able. I only because I've experienced this too,
being being with Evan, having a sturdy person that is
there when shit hits the fan, and we both come
from divorce parents. I don't know about you, but like
I didn't see healthy conflict resolution right, like seeing all
that really.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Does for me?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Tell me if it's the same increase your ability to
stay present in uncomfortable moments.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, and I love to Actually, you shared something this
past week about how you took space for yourself like
in the car in a like mid fight, and oh
my gosh, it like it hits so much. And that's
something that we've really worked on, is like taking literal
physical space in the fact that times for a couple
of weeks if needed, in order to just like really
see what's what and like see you know, just not
(36:01):
like we're in communication and stuff. It's not like a
you know, taking it out of like a fire, you know,
fire alarm going off, but taking like intentional space to
just have a beat and to like take some alone time.
But like, I loved so much the idea of you
being able to do it in real time in like
an enclosed space too with Evan.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Like it blew my mind that I that I could
do it too. And it's only even though it was
like my doing, it's because of the container that he
has created for us that I never would have been
able to have because of that. But to your point,
I think it's awesome to defy what many of us
were raised on, which is like always make up before bed,
hug kiss, and like close it at the end of
(36:41):
the night, when in our generation I can speak and
testify to the fact that sometimes you need both space
and time for extended periods of time to emotionally untangle
sort settle back into your own physical bodies to then
make like true choices of wanting to be together.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Amen. Yeah, absolutely, I think that's that's so so so important.
Wandering through here. So yeah, I think that the idea
of like actually, excuse I mean, that's been profound in
our relationship. So I think that perfect timing that he's
giving a little walkthrough.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
He can't hear me though, Yeah, We've got our headphones
and he can't hear anything I'm saying. Okay, So moving
on to the other things besides for a secure partnership,
for lack of a better world.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Here, Yeah, So a couple of other things that have
been amazing, and it's related to the partnership too, has
been psychedelics. And it's something that like I've gotten a
lot of questions about on Instagram and been kind of
scared to talk about, to be honest with you, because
I'm definitely not like an expert on it by any means.
But it's something that luckily, thanks to my partnership, I've
(37:45):
had an experience to try a couple of times in
more of a ceremony space versus like, oh, it's like
a night out at a club and we're gonna like
take some I don't know, MDMA or something like that.
But to do this really more like a ceremonial way.
We've worked with Shaman's and my partner's been through extensive
training in that way, and so I've been through a
couple of different sound ceremonies with psilocybin that have been
(38:08):
when you talk about like being you with you and
sort of like knowing that you have you, that has
been my overwhelming feeling in it of just like not
being scared of the mess and being able to sit
with myself through that and not being scared of the
yucky feelings or the unknown, but just like trusting that
like I've got me, and also like sort of more
(38:28):
in a more extensive way of like what's possible and
the ideas of like thinking of things in a new
way or in a new light, Like I think literally
what happens is new neural pathway's form when you take
these medicines. And so that's been really true for me
to see things in a new way or see things
from a new perspective, you know, both in relationship and friendships.
In massive appreciation for like my parents and especially for
(38:51):
my mom came through the less when I did, and
so really feeling in touch with like who I am
at my core and sort of getting rid of the
other things that maybe aren't as important. Has been beautiful
and huge, and probably what I would say is like
there's kind of like before and after for me with
some of these more like ceremonial experiences, and they say
set in setting is really important, which is about like
(39:12):
the mindset and the setting that you're in, and so
I think it is for me those have been like
it's been really cool to witness.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
So I feel like this could be an entire own
episode because I have a lot of questions and we're
keeping today to a short quickie path with a lot
of different topics, but just to explore a little bit
and just like get people's palates. What you know, that's
a disgusting phrase. Oh I hated that, but I don't
know a better ways say it. Whatever, silly sillo psilocybin. Okay,
(39:42):
everybody should know that. Like I have never done anything
like this. I personally have a deep respect for what
Carolyn has opened my eyes up to its ability, but
like I at this moment in time, I really don't
have a personal personal personal interest. Does not mean I
don't think it's great for other pe people. But because
of that, I don't know a lot people obviously like
(40:03):
mushrooms are very hot right now. A psilocybin a mushroom.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yes it's a mushroom, Yeah it is. And it is
considered like magic mushrooms, Like you've probably heard about it
in college. But I think now in the past couple
of years, there have been there's been a ton of
research on there, like mental health benefits, benefits for eating disorders,
Like it's really amazing. I really think that this is
going to be a huge part of the future of
met of like mental health things. And also it's not
(40:28):
for everybody, And I'm like the hugest proponent of like
I trust you to make the best decision for you.
And it's not something if you're not curious. If you're
not curious about it, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Not I'm not curious.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
But one of the things that I spoke to my
therapist about is that, like I think that for some
people who are more inhibited, you might I'm hesitant to
use this word, but like need assistance getting to those
parts of self. Whereas when I did Semitic breath work
and my yogurt at my retreat, like I felt like
(41:01):
I took myself to a place that you obviously I
can't say it's the same because I've never been there,
nor do I think it is exactly the same. But
I think I'm like able to get to these places
without personally like that type of assistance, and I feel
more in control, So that feels safer for me at.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
This point in time.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
But I really is so powerful. I absolutely agree.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But I really want to highlight that.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I see how powerful it could be for so many
of the things that you just described and knowing you've
shared with me that like when you do this, it's
like a six hour sich ceremony and at the someone's
cooking food and at the end you're eating the food,
and like it does sound so beautiful and different than
(41:49):
like drugs, right, Like it's so hard to distinguish.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I think there's like a really fine line. There's like
a very fine line, and even with people in this
space too, that I've started to like come across if
people are doing this all the time and it's like, Okay,
well what are you escaping? Like what are you looking for?
I think the other side of it, too, that I've
learned a lot about is like the integration piece of
like Okay, well what did you get from it, and
then what are you going to do with that information
versus like chasing you know, a high or doing it
(42:14):
as like a party jug which also like time and
place for that too. Like I think I've lost a
lot of my judgment on a lot of these things
that it's like doing what's really the best thing for you.
And sometimes that might be a fun night out, but
in these other situations, it's much more like a sacred
Like this is plant medicine. The stuff comes from the Earth.
Like in a lot of ways, it's not so different
from talking about supplements and food, Like we're using the
(42:34):
things that is on this planet and that people have
been using for thousands and thousands of years. So it
just like it makes a lot of sense to me
to go back to Earth for like, you know, a
lot of a lot of the healing you know, collectively
mental health wives and even like environmentally. To my experience
has been like this really reconnects you to being like
part of this planet.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
And you were living in Colorado where it was legal,
so you know that it's gone through safety things, right,
that's cool.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean so it's decriminalized there, which basically
just means that you can't. I mean you can't. You
can't sell it or anything like that. You do, that's
like no people to get your hands probably on good stuff.
I don't really have advice for that. My partner Q
has a podcast though, if you guys are interested, it's
called Inside. It's all about the world of psychedelicsh on
over there. I feel like this is not my expertise
for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Okay, we will hopefully maybe talk a little bit more
if people are interested in like the ceremonial side of it,
because like I said, I have my eyes have been
so opened and like you said, like lost judgment and
more curiosity, like I have a lot more and because
of knowing like what your experiences have been like. And
(43:43):
this question started by me saying, like what has inspired.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
The change that we are seeing today?
Speaker 3 (43:49):
And you know, hearing that it is by way of
these journeys which have connected your healed relationships with your
mother and helped you connect with parts of self. Like
I think it's so interesting to think of using substances
for lack of a better word here, I don't know,
as ways to get deeper in touch with yourself rather
than not escape. So that is just like a really
(44:12):
cool concept.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Oh totally. And you can even use tea ceremonies and
things like that too, like it doesn't always have to
and yoga practices and chanting and like all the things
that you've you know, bring to your retreats too.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
But also I do recognize that a lot of people
are more inhibited, and like being able to drop in
quickly is huge, like versus what it takes to get
your mindset and into a meditative trans It's different.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
It's different. I mean something I can say is like
a little comparative. I did another thing that was profound
for me. It was like was this week long retreat
called the Hoffman Institute the Huffman Process, and they compare
that to an ayahuasca retreat or an ayahusca ceremony. I
haven't done that, so I don't no, but it really
takes a week completely off your phone. You are like
in it in like a deep, deep way, going through
(45:06):
your family stuff, going through your patterns, your behaviors. And
that for me to like dig deep, dig out all
of the you know, stuff that has happened in my
life and you know, traumatic experiences, wonderful experience is to
really like go through that and sit with it. Instead
of like going to a therapy session and then getting
on your phone, you're forced to like sit with what
(45:27):
comes up.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Well, what's interesting? And I want to hear a little
bit more about Hoffman. Is that prior to you going
to Hoffman, we had talked about another popular I don't
know if I want to say self help, but like
popular self help community, I don't know, like similar, you know,
just as popular as Hoffman, but maybe more East Coast.
And you were like, this is not for me. And
(45:49):
I know previously people have tried to get me to
do that as well, and I was like, not for me,
Like what is the vibe difference between Hoffman and other
things that you have been.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Like, I forgot about that. I did tried a lot
last year, and actually so that's why this one for
me was really, really, really worked well. And so Hoffman
is different because it's like a spiritual vibe that comes
through and so it's really about like connecting to your
spiritual self in a big way in addition to doing
all of the sort of like therapeutic coachy, you know,
(46:18):
like that kind of work of breaking through patterns, you know,
limited beliefs, things, like that. So I think it's not
so dissimilar to a lot of the work that I've seen,
but it's like a condensed amount of time. And you're
also they really believe in the catharsis and physically moving
through things. So I'm talking like without giving too much away,
this is pretty easy to find. It's like you're like
beating the shit out of a pillow with a baseball
back kind of thing to like move through stuff that
(46:40):
you're holding on.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
To at afman that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, yeah, so it's all like a lot of about physical.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Oh, and you don't want to give stuff away because
it's like part of the secret or just like if
you go through it, you yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
You want to not know what to expect when you
go through it. I think that's a really under granted
part of it, but it's equal parts. It's sort of like, yeah,
there's just like kind of an understood thing of like
not giving too much away because for people who go
through it it can be like really, I mean for me,
it was like pretty life changing in terms of like
a level of sovereignty and self ownership, like self responsibility
(47:12):
and also just like separation in my partnership too. Like
showing up as a separate individual versus like solely part
of this you know, sometimes great mostly great relationship, but
that was having you know, some real hard times and
so it's for me to do that and like completely
sort of separate and then choose to rebuild was like
a really big thing this past year or two.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
That was like huge. You said that all really fast.
But if we could just like if everyone you don't
have to go back, but like to hear what you
just said is absolutely gigantic because if we pieced together,
even like without me knowing you pieces of this conversation,
like we know that like New York, you could not
find your person. Everybody was incompatible and there was you know,
fuck boys for lack of a better word, here just
(47:53):
guys that like we're not showing up, you know, and
you're amazing. So it was just like ridiculous. Then you
meet this partner and he's you know, very emotionally capable
and whatever. It allows you to grow into self in
a much more whole way, but it's with him, and
that can be become toxic and it's set in itself.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
You can become co dependent in that way.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Absolutely. Yeah, that was a really big problem. Yeah, I'm
not taking you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
As you were, by the way, I'm just speaking generally truly.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Well I was, so it doesn't matter personal It felt
like we really sort of collapsed into each other because
we were in the pandemican we were pandemic romance, so
all of our time was together is beautiful, Like I
wouldn't change a thing, but there was definitely like not THEO.
I mean, he moved in after three weeks, so like
there was just like instant sort of on top of
each other. And I think it was the first serious
(48:44):
relationship I'd been in such a long time that like
I did lose myself in that and had to sort of,
you know, rechoose it. And I remember we have we
have an amazing couple of therapists that's been really huge
for our relationship too. And I remember saying like, I
just like want this to be like a fuck yes relationship,
and she was just like, WHOA, we don't actually want
fuck yes. We want like a full body to I
(49:06):
choose this yes instead of like the early days fuck
yas like I'm so excited about this honeymoon phase. Yes.
And so we really had to like step back and
equally decide, and it took a while too. There's a
lot of time of unknown about like deep respect and love.
But just like we'll see hmmmmm, that's okay, Like, well,
(49:28):
there's nothing wrong with it. We'll see chapter two. I think,
like I think those of us who really like to
know the answer and know that we're going to be okay,
Like that's where some of these tools and practices and
supplements have come in to make let me know, like, hey,
I'm good and a relationship is an amazing addition to
my life. And I would love to have you know,
family and all of that, and I'm good no matter what.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I remember you saying that to me, like I'm good
no matter what at some point over the last amount
of time I don't know how long, and me being like, wow,
she is good, and like really seeing that for not
just somebody you love, which I do love you, but
like even if I didn't, and you were just like
a random person I met once and you were this
a female and you could say that it's so invigorating,
(50:11):
inspiring and uplifting to see a woman and feel that
from a woman, and it defies everything we've been told,
how we've been raised, even if we grew up in
cultures where there were strong women around us, Like, I
don't think that that's something really I never saw it
really modeled or verbalized. And I was like, wow, you really,
(50:33):
you know, did the work. Everything we've talked about today,
plus a million things that weren't spoken about in the
Alaska all because of that huge change from leaving New
York and saying goodbye to the only life you knew
near your family, in a very comfortable job in the
best city in the world.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy to think back, and I mean
it's I love that You're kind of this demarcation point
for me. I remember Mommy had that last conversation and
I was really just getting settled in that the early
stages of that life and in this relationship and all
of that. There's just been green lights along the way.
That's really the best I can explain it. Like, even
from New York, it's like I did I got an
apartment on FaceTime, Like I just packed everything I had
(51:15):
in the car with my dog and we went across
the country and it was just like that, when there's
that that feeling, it's like hard to even put words
on it. I feel like intuition is even a big
enough word for it. It's like inner.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Knowing when it's not a choice anymore. It's just like
you're going you don't, yeah, just follow the sence. I
don't know if you remember from your yoga teacher training
or you were years ago you did your two hundred, right,
do you remember the pose like hanaman or hanam and asana?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I did a lame training. What is that? Oh?
Speaker 3 (51:41):
I actually didn't know it from my first either, which
didn't focus on Sanskrit. But it's like splits pos like
doing a split. But the story behind it is something
about Hanuman, like taking a leap. I'm getting Hanaman vibes
from you. It's just like you took this huge leap
of faith and I'm totally butchering the story and it's
deeper meaning, but like I'm just picturing you as Hanaman.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
That's all.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
If anybody listening is like yes, or like she's crazy, whatever.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
I love that. I'll take that on. Yeah, it's cool.
I mean it feels like also, it's just been like
there's been like a wind behind my back for a
lot of these big decisions, So it doesn't I mean, yes,
there's a piece of like getting ducks in a row
and like making sure you know, I'm going to have
enough money and things like that for sure, Like I
have to be working and things like like that's important
(52:26):
and it's important to me of course too. But I
think like that's that's just something important to keep in
mind too, of like, don't do this with no safety net.
You need to have like some net in place.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
You really did it as a full functioning adult. This
was not a childish move. This was a mature leap,
but like really just a culmination of all of your
life work.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
Okay, so I've taken an hour of your time.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
I don't want to take any more, but thank you
because I feel like your energy everybody will be able
to feel it. I feel it like I'm so enlivened
by this conversation and in spy and not that there's
any change that I could make that looks like yours
right now.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Maybe it's just making a different decision. Maybe it's like
choosing a different drink tomorrow. You know, it doesn't always
have to be these massive things.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
It's just the energy being around somebody expansive is just
contagious and like whatever that looks like for me. When
I leave this conversation, it's going to look like for
me and everybody. You know, some people are probably going
to pack up their things and move and others are
going to like you know, write in their journal more whatever.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool knowing what's important for you. But yeah,
give it a shot too. Like there's nothing like you
know that you're never going to regret, like making a
big decision. I don't think most of the time that's
gonna put you somewhere new with new people, and like
it's actually a lot of times the hard part is
like the choice and then the once it's like in action,
it actually, in my experience is way easier.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Whenever I travel, I have such like more creative brain
spurts and connection to self, and I'm certainly seeing that
come through your Instagram, even though your journey of nomadic
living like just began. So I want to just encourage
everybody to follow along on Carolyn's story specifically, but also
her posts to get like a continuous drip of this
(54:11):
exciting liveliness that's coming through you.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Wow, thank you so much, Thank.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
You so much for living your truthiest life for the
third time. This was really a huge, great conversation.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Thank you, thank you, Love you so much.
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