December 31, 2025 • 41 mins
On this episode of The Tudor Dixon Podcast, Tudor sits down with Johnny and Heidi Bulford of Creative Vets, a nonprofit that uses songwriting and music as a powerful tool to help veterans heal from trauma and reclaim their stories. They share the emotional journey behind their work, including the unforgettable story of World War II veteran Irving Locker, whose life inspired a song that continues to educate younger generations about sacrifice, service, and American history.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Freedom.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Most jin.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What you're listening to right now is a song that
we talked about just a few podcasts ago. It's Freedomless Free,
And you guys probably remember the World War Two hero
that we still do about the song, Irving Mocker. He
is the inspiration mindless teacher told his story to a
singer songwriter couple. Their names are Johnny and Heidie Bulford.
(00:34):
They took his story and they worked with him to
create this song. They went out there and they released
the song. It's a huge hit, and we have them
here to talk about it. You might you might remember
they kind of peeked in on that podcast with Irving.
Johnny and Heidi, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hi so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely well, I'm so glad you are here, But I'm
so glad that you have been able to do this
kind of work, such a union position to be in.
We hear about a lot of nonprofits, a lot of
nonprofits that work with veterans, and you have this amazing
ability to work with veterans and music. And I think
that's so unique because we hear so often that we
(01:14):
work with kids with music. Anybody, anybody who's coming back
from tragedy. Oftentimes music can help people with their mental
ability to return to something with their spirits, And I
think sometimes our veterans get lost and we just expect
them to be tough.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But you've been able to.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Bring music to creative vets. So tell us a little
bit about creative vets and your music program.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well that's all.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I wish we could take credit for it, but that's
Richard Casper, Marine combat veteran, Purple Heart. All those make
sure I get a lot of his accolades in there.
But he's just all around impressive, awesome guy who found
relief from.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
His peaches.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
With the arts, right, I think Heidi, he started with
he started with sculpting, painting like other forms, right before
the music part.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, he went to the Chicago Art Institute, and that's
where he kind of realized that tapping into something that
he wasn't normally used to. He described himself as being
the least artistic person ever and then found himself creating
art and finding healing for the first time through that.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
So he ended up teaming up with another professional Nashville
songwriter and they wrote his song and he found such
healing in it that he decided that was something his
brothers and sisters and arms also might benefit from, and
he started knocking down doors in Nashville asking writers to
(02:49):
write with veterans, and we were luckily some of those writers.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Oh that's amazing. So we always think about these country
style songs are filled with it's almost like you you
go through this pain and then they're filled with this
amazing hope. And that's sort of been the history of
country songs except for I know, there are also the
country songs where it's like, you know, lost my dog
got drunk by the truck, and then my wife left me,
(03:15):
So we know, there's there's a whole spectrum.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, we had to write a lot of those.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, it's nice to have a version of Not that
those songs aren't important, you know, there's a place, there's
a place for them, but yeah, these had that happens too. Yeah,
these these are you know, it's really nice to see
in real time you helping someone because that's what that's
what music was for us growing up, Like I listened
(03:41):
to certain songs to help me through the tough times,
and country music as a genre is good for that
because it has the stories and the relatability and the
lyric is so important compared to other genres, and so
it allows itself to help you through life stuff because
that's what the songs are usually about. But that's we
(04:02):
all found songwriting at some point, the professional songwriters, that is,
as a form of therapy ourselves to write about what
we were going through. And why no one made that
connection beforehand, I don't know, but Richard really stumbled in
to some really effective therapy.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Art is like it's one of those things where it
can really take you away and it slows you down.
I look at it as it's a time where you
kind of get away from all the stress. It slows
you down, it allows you to think, It allows you
to recharge in a way that I think a lot
of people don't really realize. We used to joke that
we should have coloring books at our office. I used
to work at a foundry and it's you know, that's
(04:44):
a high stress job and you're constantly trying to get
orders out, you have problems, you've got hot metal, you've
got you know, it's just a high stress job. We
used to joke you should have coloring books out, and
people at break could just and kind of escape from
that because just that act of creating something that there's
(05:06):
no pressure is really cathartic.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Absolutely it is. It is great.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I mean, songwriting is great now when you make it
your profession and.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
You then you've kind of mixed those worlds. So now
you guys, I don't know, you have no no excuse.
You made this your own job.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Well that's why creative vets for us is still a
form of therapy for us, even because it's we're back
to the purest form right of songwriting. We are going
in with a mission and it's getting something out and
putting it into song form. When you work for publishing
companies like we have over the years, it's and it
(05:47):
is a job that starts at a certain time and
you have to achieve this thing that used to come
from inspiration in the middle of the night or something.
You have to do it between the hours of eleven
and two every day, and then sometimes two or three
more times that day. It becomes a little more like
building the house than it started. But but yeah, it's
(06:10):
it's a I mean, I'm not complaining, it's the best
job I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It is whether whether you're inspired or not you're writing
a song that day.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, So we talked to Irving. I want to get
to his story because the reason I had Irving on
the podcast was that I saw him on Fox and
Friends and I was like, wait a minute, Wait a minute.
This man is one hundred and one years old. He
has this new song out. How on earth did this
come to be?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Was this a passion of his? But we didn't really
get into that because Irving's story is so amazing and
I urge you to listen to that podcast if you
hadn't haven't had a chance to. He stormed the beaches
of Normandy on D Day. He was there, he went
through the Battle of the Bulge. He was there when
they liberated the concentration camps. He helped to speak to
(06:59):
some of the victim in the camps. I mean, his
story is so powerful and he was openly sharing it
with us. And I look at that, I look back
at what I learned in history class, and I think
we watched a lot of the videos of in the
nineteen forties of World War Two and what was happening.
But to actually have the opportunity to sit with someone
(07:21):
who lived it, who understands it. And you could see
when we were talking about this before we started recording,
it's so fresh for him still. I mean at one
hundred and one, you know, we're seventy plus years past this,
and he was still the minute you talk about going
(07:42):
to the camp and seeing what was there. The emotion
is so fresh and so raw for him. And he
shared that story with you, which is how this song
came about. But how do you get connected? How did
you know? How did you know when you were talking
to him? I mean that has to sort of be
still you're up in the middle of night like this
is there's something here.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I mean the connection came through which he was there
in the room for the interview that you saw him
in initially and for for the he helps facilitate things
with Irving. But David Booth, who's another amazing veteran combat
veteran who has his own story and his own song
with creative Vets in his own VSO and his own VSOS. Yes, Like,
(08:25):
that's the amazing thing is you meet through these vs
these veteran service organizations, you'll meet other people and they.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
All work together so well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And he presented Irving, you know because Irving's one hundred
and one years old, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
We want has not seen that, by the way, at all.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Not even clothes. And yeah, but we wanted to make
sure his story. You know, Irving obviously has worked through
what he's been through, like you said, though it's very
fresh for him, but he he is at a point
in his life where it's not debilillitating for him. His
PTS is not debilitating. And so the point of this song.
(09:04):
Sometimes when we're writing with veterans, it's like, how do
we purge them of this weight they're carrying and help
them have a new lease on life kind of thing,
And with Irving it was more of a documenting his
story and song forim kind of thing and it being
a cool thing for him to have for his presentation.
(09:25):
So when we sat down with him, he just wanted
to talk about his message, and his message was this
all costs something, you know, everything, the way we get
to live and the freedoms we have in this world
cost his friends, you know, that ultimate price, and he
feels like some young people don't walk around realizing that,
(09:50):
you know, like some others might. And so that was
the message he wanted to get out was to make
sure that the intensity, like in the lines were we say,
one thousand and sixteen, poor innocent souls rising with the
smoke that was in reference to guard a egg and
where he walked up and witnessed what he witnessed there
(10:10):
and having the weight of seeing red waves at Utah Beach,
the fact that there was so much blood that the
ocean looked red. That kind of intensity was those lyrics
were put in there to first establish the amount of
weight is being discussed, and then to help people realize
that that was al so we can play Fortnite all
(10:33):
day long now or whatever?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So young, too, so young to he was eighteen, just
a kid, I mean, And that was to me so
powerful to hear him say, you know, I was in
charge because I was the one that had a big family.
So he was telling us because he had a big family,
even though he was the youngest, he had always been
it always had to take care of each other. So
(10:58):
his mom was always like, hey, take care of your
brother and sisters. So he was used to that feeling
of like we're a team. And to me, I mean
that was encouraging to me having four kids of my
own because I always kind of feel that way they've
taught each other a lot. I mean, as parents, we
teach our kids a lot, but your kids actually teach
each other a lot too, And the way they interact
(11:19):
is very powerful for how they will be when they're older.
And I've seen it as my girls have grown up.
But that was what I took from his story. You
were a kid, but what you learned at your house
at home was so powerful that he went into the
most stressful situation you can possibly go into it life
and kept a level head and a positive attitude. That
(11:41):
was the most amazing thing was to say, I was
always trying to joke. I was always trying to say
look at the bright side, look at this. I mean
when he so if you didn't watch the podcast, I
also encourage you. You can watch it on Rumble or
YouTube because he shows us a lot of the equipment
that they used. He still has a lot of what
he was in the field with at his home. So
(12:03):
he had the helmet. When he took the helmet off,
and he said, the inside of the helmet comes out.
This is what you do everything. This is how you
wash your face, this is how you brush your teeth.
This is how, this is how you wash your clothes,
and you think you are out in a field. There
are no showers, you don't have there's not TV or
Fortnite or toilets. I mean he talked about building toilets
(12:24):
because there was that was such a luxury for the
guys to have a board up above where they could
sit and just go to the bathroom on a board.
When I hear that, I think these stories and what
you're doing is so powerful because that song creates conversation,
and the conversation is so important for young people today
(12:45):
because even my generation, we didn't get drafted.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I remember my parents talking about the Vietnam draft. And
I can remember a girlfriend of mine saying that her
dad never spoke about anything that had happened in war,
but she knew he had nightmares and she could hear
him yelling in the middle of the night. And I
think these were things that this my generation, the millennial generation,
(13:13):
my kids' generations, will not understand because we were never
just ripped away from our homes and forced to go
out and join this war. Those are powerful things to
remind them of or to tell them, I mean, to
have them learn through song, So I would say that
the songs are not just to heal the people that
(13:36):
went through it, but it's a teaching method.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
It's perspective, right, That's what Heidi and I get out
of all these rights we walk out it is. So
it's annoying at the same time because we get ourselves
complaining about stuff, but we have fresh, veteran stories in
our minds all the time to go, why am I
complaining about this? You know, Larry was stuck in the
(13:59):
jungle for four days, because you know, we know that
we have all these stories to pull from all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
But perspective is a big thing.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I think that's what Irving was talking about with
maybe young people, is he's having an issue getting into
some schools because these schools think that the topic is
a little heavy for these kids. But I look back
at the formative parts of my life like that.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Made me who I am. We're all very.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Intense things like that, and sometimes at young ages, like
for instance, I have a soft spot in my heart
and do a lot of work for children with disabilities.
And I don't know what the current politically correct term
is for it, but kids that are have mental deficiencies
and stuff. So there's a place in Orlando called the
(14:53):
Russell Holme and I used to visit it at a
young age and was exposed to every every version and
of that that exists, like the spectrum of people with
those disabilities. And because of that, I've you know, it's
just made me. It's just given me a better perspective
on life. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue
(15:13):
next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
When I was a kid, we did a lot of
We had a lot of people, like you're saying, even
disabilities like limb differences or you know, wheelchair or just
anything that was different. They wanted kids when I was
growing up. They wanted kids to understand that different isn't bad,
Different is different, and that and the people that are
(15:41):
different than you they can sometimes do things that you
would never imagine and things better than you.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So it was like this ability to learn that there
are so many differences in the world. And it feels
like that's been taken out of school. It's almost been
replaced by political ideology, which I think is very unfortunate
because it is so important too. I do think we
had a more welcoming and more loving community. When that
was taught. We also did learn actually a lot about
(16:09):
World War Two. And I would say, it didn't strike
me that my kids haven't learned as much as we did.
And I said this to Irving. I don't know if
it was because my generation was closer to it, our
grandparents had gone and so it was so still so
stunning that there were videos and there was quite a
bit of we had quite a bit of curriculum on
(16:33):
World War Two, but we go every eighth grade class
with our middle school goes to Washington, d c. And
they always go through the Holocaust Museum. And it was
it didn't strike me until I watched their faces when
they saw the things that happened in World War Two.
And it was so striking to me that my kids
(16:56):
would look at this and go, why are they so
in what happened? And it was like this moment where
we take an extra long time to go there because
the kids pause and they go, why did this happen?
How did this happen? Explain this? And it's such an
interactive museum. So you brought up the veteran before we
(17:19):
got on, who said, we look at this now and
go why did we fight? Why did we lose people?
I think that it is so important for them to
know that. This next generation, I think is more curious
than mine, or the millennial generation than excer millennials. I
think they're more curious about how to bring peace back
(17:41):
because of the chaos that we see, and when they
learn about this, they go, oh, we can't let that happen.
That's what a world war looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
That.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I agree completely. I think history is something that it
gets overlooked now too. As far as the importance of
knowing it. I'm a big history buff and that's why
I get nervous when I look at the state of
the world sometimes because I know how little, the little
things it took to spark You know, when you when
(18:13):
you study old wars and you see, wait, that started
from this, and then you look out into the world
and you're like, well, we could at any point head
down that same wrong direction again.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And I think if.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
People knew irving story, they would be less they would
be more cautious about heading down that wrong direction again.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, and even they're clearly not being taught everything Irving.
It breaks my heart because this clearly he brings it
up every time we're around him, is that people come
up to him and tell him he's lying, he's exaggerating.
Those aren't the numbers. You're making that up. It didn't
really happen, all these terrible things that they're saying to
his face. I just can't imagine walking up to a
(18:58):
one hundred and one year old World War Two veteran
and who liberated guard a lag in one of the
worst concentration camps, and someone saying that he's a liar.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And that that didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
People, And that was the whole point of the song,
is that people need to know it did happen. We
are not exaggerating, we're not lying.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
This is what happened. It's stunning because that seems to
be I mean, we're seeing this anti semitism really rise
in across the globe, and I think it's been so
shocking for us how quickly it seems to have happened.
But you know, I look back and I think about
(19:35):
this synagogue in Pittsburgh that was attacked, and at that
time it was there were warnings. I remember people going
anti Semitism is really on the rise in this country,
and people kind of swept it under the rug and said, no,
it's not. But you think about Irving. The reason he
was so effective in these discussions with the survivors of
(19:59):
the Constant Treition campus because he's Jewish and he could
speak Yiddish and he could communicate with them and to
look at him and that It's not just that they
could look at him and say you're lying. It's the
lack of respect that we are seeing right now in
the United States. I mean, even we talked about country
(20:20):
music used to be about you know, losing your wife
and drinking too much and crashing your truck and all
of that. But now we suddenly see these country music songs.
And I have to say country music had historically kind
of been connected with conservative values. But now we see
country music songs that are political in a way where
they're like anti ice and there's it's not patriotic and
(20:43):
they're anti police. That seems like a weird turn for
country music.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I agree, it's it is not what we're used to
like back.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I mean, we have the old controversies like you had
Toby Keith and I guess now they're known as the
Chicks and and their their issues that they had back
in the day.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
For like, I feel like Toby.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Because they're the Chicks, because they realized that they were
not okay, it was not okay to be the Dixie Chicks,
which I call my kids that all the time because
we were. Our last name is Dixon. That's cute.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Well, I thought when they came out that the Chicks
was going to be the issue, Like I thought that
it would be righting themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
What that heck, I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah, I didn't think that was going to be the
one to go. But but stuff changes really quickly. But
you know, all that stuff to say, like you woke today,
and I kind of stay as much out of it
as we can. Obviously we have our opinions and our
beliefs and all those things, and but we also our
job is music and entertainment and helping people. And I
(21:55):
feel like if we get to pointed in one direction,
there might be someone we could have helped that they
wouldn't have reached out to us because of something we
thought or said and the But I also think that
all we do is music. I don't have the time
to study all this stuff like you you do. This
is more your laying in your job and you are
(22:16):
more educated. I think the way I put it in
the past is that we're we have we have more
influence than we have intelligence with some of this stuff
as musicians, so we get this platform and all these
people that we have influence over. And I'm not saying
Heidi and I, but.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
In general, singers, actors, you know, they have these big
platforms and then.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
And they might not have all the information because they
don't have time. That's not there, it's not what they're doing.
So they're basically going by off, you know, going by
something they've heard or seen anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
So but I kind of love the idea that we
go back to. I think that was one of the
beauties of even Irving's time, and I was just so
the movie The Holiday always comes back out at the
holiday season, and it's probably like twenty years old now,
but the theme of the movie is kind of like
you're going back in time and there's an older gentleman
(23:14):
and they're learning about what filmmaking was like when film
was first coming out, when they first were putting movies
up on the big screen, and even now twenty years later,
I watch this and I go, gosh, it's not even
like that anymore. You know, this was a great movie,
and it's a beloved holiday movie because it kind of
takes you back to even what creativity and art was
(23:38):
twenty years ago. And I see now, you see a
lot of these actors who have said I don't want
to talk about politics. I applaud that. I love being entertained.
I don't care what your politics are. I love when
someone creates a great movie, creates a great song, has
a wonderful piece of art work. I am not biased
(24:02):
by who did it. I don't care. I don't want
to hear if you want. If you hate my politics
and I hate your politics, I can still appreciate if
you can create something amazing. I can still appreciate that
Rob Reiner has made amazing movies and say we didn't
agree on anything of politics, and that what happened to
(24:23):
him is one of the worst tragedies that I have
seen in my adult life. I can still say that.
Do you think that we can move toward a time
when we start to see art come back and we
take the hatred out of it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I mean, I hope so, I mean I think that
would be I think it still exists the way we
we remember it in some places, in some avenues. But
I know exactly what you mean, Like I don't when
I'm hiding and I watch what we call warm hug
movies sometimes, and they're movies.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Like usually from the nineties, you know, like our childhood
where we're flicks maybe that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Do you have a problem with the word check, don't you?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, I know they're not romantic.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I mean, like like Forrest Gump is a warm hug
movie because it has the it has the score. Yeah,
it has the score, the story is all great. I'm
not being challenged at any point.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah right, you can just fall into it.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah right. And there's music like that as well.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I mean, obviously, music has been political for a long time,
you know, in various genres and stuff. I mean it,
musicians definitely, you know, the poets like to get to
dabble in that, obviously, and they have since I mean forever,
you know. But but I don't, you know, I'm not
(25:46):
looking to if I'm going for a walk or something,
or if I'm golfing, I don't want to be challenged
politically while I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Listening to music.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I want to warm hug music kind of going where
it just kind of is is medicinal in a way
where it's comforting and calming and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I saw something yesterday because all these things are coming
up about Rob Reiner's movies now, and I saw this
clip of him saying there's a scene in The Princess
Bride that he absolutely hates because you can see a
glare on the camera. She's on her horse and she's riding,
she's riding around the castle and you see the glare
(26:27):
on the camera, and he said, it drives me crazy
because suddenly you're aware that it's being filmed. You're supposed
to just feel like you are there watching it, You've
been taken into the movie, and yet you can see
it's being filmed. And I think that, you know, I
would I would never have noticed that. But I do
think there is this beauty in just taking people away,
(26:52):
and that's what you do with your songs, is that
you just you are taken out of that and it,
like I said, creativity just makes you kind of pull
away from the stress of the world and you get
to go into an alternate world.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, well, I agree.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I think it's it's also the job of the creator
to create something that is also be able to be
enjoyed universally. I think comedians do it really well. Heidi
and I if we were if it was a big
reveal on us for anything. We love comedy all you know,
lots of forms of comedy, and we probably listen to
comedians that you'd be like what you ass But if
(27:32):
the if the joke is written well, I don't have
to agree with the premise to enjoy the punchline.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
If it's funny.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
If it's really funny, then that's fine. Same thing with
any other topic. If the song is great and the
result is that, I'm I enjoyed the experience and say
there is a message in there, you know, as long
as it's done correctly.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I think that that, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Like, for instance, Garth Brooks had some political songs back
in the day that you could have taken that way,
like The Change or we Shall Be Free, where he
talks about hot topic items like world hung you know,
he says when the Last Child cries for a crust
of bread is one of the lyrics. So he's talking
about these issues, but it's generic, like let's move towards
(28:20):
a better place. Let's let's uh fix all these these
things and less divisive, you know, stuff in the lyric
where it's like this side or the other side. And
I just think that if it's done correctly, anybody can
enjoy it and your message gets heard as a result,
I guess. But if it's just done to cost issue,
(28:45):
you know, then you can easily tell that, you know,
and it's there's an agenda kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So Heidi, let me ask you this because I just
saw Wait, it's the Oscars that they're putting on YouTube, right,
So to me, that's and I read this. Gosh, it
was like a headline that said this is a watershed
moment for Hollywood, and I thought, you kind of did
this to yourselves, but they, I mean, it is a
big deal to these folks that suddenly this awards show
(29:13):
that had had great ratings, clearly the ratings are not
what they used to be and now they're moving to YouTube.
But at the same time, I feel like it's it
is kind of an interesting environment because I have seen
a lot of these celebrities who have said I don't
want to have my voice out there. I mean, even
who is it the girl that recently she was a
(29:36):
real big loud mouth about all the political stuff and
she I'm looking at Sarah, but she can't remember it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
The Hunger Games girl.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yes, Yes, the Hunger Games girl.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Jennifer Oh, I didn't know that Lawrence.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yes, Jennifer Lawrence. She was like, they asked her about it,
and she's like, you know what, it doesn't People don't
want to hear from celebrities on that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And that.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I applaud her for that because she had been so loud,
and I think that was probably a hard thing to say,
but it is true because I like to watch the
films that she makes, but it makes me uncomfortable knowing
that she probably hates me, you know, and I don't
want to think about her as a person. I want
to think about her character. Do you think that this
is going to there's going to be a shift back
(30:18):
towards some of the great art that we saw. I mean,
I look back at even you know, some of the
movies that we grew up with, like e T. I
look at that and I'm like, that's the kind of
movie I want to see again.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean no, I think is that a
hug movie?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, by a little alien person.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
But still a one hug film installagic.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah, but no, I mean Heidi's uh, I think she
was asking you, honey.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I mean, yeah, I hope so, and I I agree
the same way, like I it'll Johnny and I will go,
you know, open our phone and there's name our favorite
actor said this that we don't agree with politically, or
they did something, they celebrated something that you know, we
wouldn't agree with that kind of thing. It's hard to
(31:10):
not go ah, such a you know, it is hard
to separate the two. And like you just said, I
think Jennif Lawrence makes amazing movies. She's funny, she's super talented.
You want to be your friend, Like, doesn't she seem
like someone that you'd want to hang out with? And
so it's it's hard to separate the two. But yeah,
I hope we can get back to that. Well.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Yeah, comedy is one of the places like that we
we love. You know, stuff gets explained pretty well. But
like Heidi and I both grew up massive Michael Jackson fans,
were you still love the music? I mean, obviously the no,
it's not one hundred percent, but you know, we all
kind of know what we know if and there's a
(31:54):
comedian out there and I can't remember his name to
give him credit, but the gist of his joke is,
you know, if you watch that documentary and you still
listen to Michael Jackson's music, then you're a monster. And
then he laughs and goes, Which is why I haven't
watched the documentary yet because.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I love those songs and see it's hard to not
attach what you know about them personally to what they
do professionally.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So but there's more that goes.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
The other thing is there's more people's work that goes
into those things than there's the band players, the songwriters,
the producers.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You know, he's watching for that.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
If you're talking about quite so many amount of people
that have to go into creating anything, whether it's a
song or art or a movie, whatever type of art
it is, there you are putting so many people's careers
at risk. And and I think, and you know, people
are like, oh gosh, what's the future of all of this?
Is it all going to be ai? And will there
(32:52):
be people at all? And I think the beauty of
the pain that we go through as people is that
that pain creates really amazing stories and helps other people
who are going through pain. That to me has always
been the beauty of movies like Steel, Magnolias and all
of these really tough movies. But if you've ever gone
(33:14):
through an illness, or if ever you want it's kind
of like Misery Loves Company in some cases, you want
to see that. You want to see how they came
through that. And those great stories come from a place
that someone felt, you know, it had to come from somewhere.
So I do hope that we get back to that.
I appreciate that you guys are focused on telling the
(33:37):
stories and teaching people and at the same time helping
so many people that have gone through more than I
can ever imagine. So before I let you go, just
tell us about a little bit about Creativets and that
how people can help with that. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Creativets dot org is their website and across social media
everywhere they're at creative It's they they need funding because
their wait list is crazy long right now, so many
veterans need these programs. They have an art program, a
songwriting program, So it started with songwriting and through this
(34:17):
they've discovered, you know, they have the art program the
astrophotography program. They take people to New Mexico and they
have these telescopes and they take these incredible photos and
they're teaching new skills and it's all about that neuroplasticity.
So they're challenging you to learn a new skill, develop
a new talent. And it is it's just been the
(34:38):
greatest thing we've ever got to do in music.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And I mean that, and I say it a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I've can watch other interviews and you say in the
same thing and I feel like a broken record, But
it really is. Johnny and I have been in the
music business since we were kids, and you know, we
both thought we'd He wanted to be Garth Brooks and
I wanted to be Reeven McIntyre, and we thought we'd
be you know, big superstars, selling out stadiums.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
That was our childhood goal kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And we just, you know, we feel like God gave
us these talents and I feel like I've finally found
how I'm supposed to be using them. It's sitting down
with people like Irving or Larry Jordan and Lenn Erics
and these Vietnam veterans, these World War Two veterans who
did so much for us. It's not just like, oh,
they did a small favor one time, like they literally
(35:27):
were okay with dying for us. That is doesn't get
much bigger than that. And so the least that we
can do is sit down with them and give them
a day of our time and we talk. They tell
us whatever it is they want to talk about. We
leave it open to them. We tell them, we want
to write the song that you can't talk about whatever
(35:48):
it is. You can't talk about whatever it is it
keeps you up at night, or that makes you struggle
at home or struggle throughout your day, that thing that
keeps nagging in the back of your mind that you
just can't shake. That that is what we want to write,
because then you get it out and then you don't
have to talk about it anymore. You talked about it,
you got it out, you put it in a song,
and now you can share that with your spouse or
(36:09):
your kids, or your friends who don't understand why does
dad have night terrors and cry out the middle of
the night, Well, you know, listen to this three and
a half minute song, and it gives people that perspective
and that understanding and that history and fills in the
gaps where people don't know what's going on and is it.
Truly has been the best, the coolest, the most rewarding
(36:33):
thing we've ever got to do is help these veterans.
And we feel a little guilty sometimes leaving going. I
hope they got as much out of it as I
got out of it. Like he said, it's the best
perspective lesson and history lesson that you can get is
sitting down with these people and hearing their stories, and
then we get to help them get it out and
(36:53):
write it and it's exciting for them. Irving became a
published songwriter at one hundred and one and he has
a single out there on Big Machine Records that's like
Taylor Swift's record Late, Like that's.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
A big deal.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And it's so exciting to see them heal and be
excited about it. And it's also exciting to see the
change that happens. Usually we meet someone and on the
other side of it they seem like a different person,
like they have joy or they have peace. There's this
(37:26):
change that happens in real time from before we sit
down until after the song is finished that we get
to see and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I love that and I love that piece that you
have in finding why God gave you that gift, because
I think that's something that our kids grow up and
they go, Okay, God gave me this. Let's take a
quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
I watch my girls and I'm like, Okay, I'm watching
(37:57):
the gifts that they have been given and the quality
that are unique to them that I know God has
a plan for and I just I'm curious what is
that plan and how does he want them to use that?
And it's funny because you can sometimes go, oh, I've
been gifted with this, so it must mean this, and
then God shows you a different path. And I just
love that story of that piece that comes with knowing
(38:19):
what God wants from you for sure.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, and Heidi touched on it too. You can listen
to Creative It's music out there. They do have a
deal with Big Machine Records and they've released a bunch
of songs and any veterans who might you know, We've
found that a lot of veterans get a lot of help. Well,
what was the Irving Locker one that the lyric change Heidi,
that someone did in the column.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh so from Fox and Friends when they played Irving
song it Freedom was Free, which is streamable and downloadable
everywhere you get music. Someone wrote in the comments. So
the first verse is I stepped on that ship in
New York City and by Hell's Gate, it hit me.
Sometimes evil does its best to take it, and heroes
(39:02):
have to give it all to save it. If Freedom
was Free goes into the chorus, and someone in the
comments under the Fox and Friends clip had written the
change of the lyrics about but they put their story
and I stepped on that ship in Mississippi and by
whatever landmark that was there, it hit me, and I just,
(39:23):
you know, total stranger heard the song and went, hey,
that's my story.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Different war, even like they were talking about different war.
And this happens so much where veterans. The stories are unique,
but there is a thread that runs through all of
them where they are able to connect and not feel
so alone. And a lot of the veterans songs that
we write, that's kind of the point of their story.
They're like, I want people to know I went through
it too. You're not by yourself in this. And so
(39:50):
some veterans might get a lot of healing from listening
to the playlist that Creativet's have released. In fact, Richard's
trying to start like a music RX, kind of like
a prescription music based thing where you can actually search
like Felujah two thousand, you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Know, put in time.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Wow, that's some keywords.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
So people who who served at the same time, same place,
went through you know, some of the same stuff, can
actually search for a veteran who who went through that
and listened to their song about it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And see their story of the same experience. That's that
is very incredible. Well, what you guys are doing is amazing.
It's creativets dot org. Right, yeah, that's right, check it out.
Help them give because this is absolutely critical and it
brings us back to a time of focusing on art
and positivity and warm hugs. Johnny and Heidi Bulford, thank
(40:45):
you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank thank
you for having us absolutely and thank you all for
listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As you know, you
can get it anywhere you get your podcasts, the iHeartRadio,
ap Apple podcasts, or you can watch it on Rumble
or YouTube at Tutor Dixon but make sure you join
us next time, and have a blessed day.
Freedom.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Most jin.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What you're listening to right now is a song that
we talked about just a few podcasts ago. It's Freedomless Free,
And you guys probably remember the World War Two hero
that we still do about the song, Irving Mocker. He
is the inspiration mindless teacher told his story to a
singer songwriter couple. Their names are Johnny and Heidie Bulford.
(00:34):
They took his story and they worked with him to
create this song. They went out there and they released
the song. It's a huge hit, and we have them
here to talk about it. You might you might remember
they kind of peeked in on that podcast with Irving.
Johnny and Heidi, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hi so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely well, I'm so glad you are here, But I'm
so glad that you have been able to do this
kind of work, such a union position to be in.
We hear about a lot of nonprofits, a lot of
nonprofits that work with veterans, and you have this amazing
ability to work with veterans and music. And I think
that's so unique because we hear so often that we
(01:14):
work with kids with music. Anybody, anybody who's coming back
from tragedy. Oftentimes music can help people with their mental
ability to return to something with their spirits, And I
think sometimes our veterans get lost and we just expect
them to be tough.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But you've been able to.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Bring music to creative vets. So tell us a little
bit about creative vets and your music program.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well that's all.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I wish we could take credit for it, but that's
Richard Casper, Marine combat veteran, Purple Heart. All those make
sure I get a lot of his accolades in there.
But he's just all around impressive, awesome guy who found
relief from.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
His peaches.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
With the arts, right, I think Heidi, he started with
he started with sculpting, painting like other forms, right before
the music part.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, he went to the Chicago Art Institute, and that's
where he kind of realized that tapping into something that
he wasn't normally used to. He described himself as being
the least artistic person ever and then found himself creating
art and finding healing for the first time through that.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
So he ended up teaming up with another professional Nashville
songwriter and they wrote his song and he found such
healing in it that he decided that was something his
brothers and sisters and arms also might benefit from, and
he started knocking down doors in Nashville asking writers to
(02:49):
write with veterans, and we were luckily some of those writers.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Oh that's amazing. So we always think about these country
style songs are filled with it's almost like you you
go through this pain and then they're filled with this
amazing hope. And that's sort of been the history of
country songs except for I know, there are also the
country songs where it's like, you know, lost my dog
got drunk by the truck, and then my wife left me,
(03:15):
So we know, there's there's a whole spectrum.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, we had to write a lot of those.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, it's nice to have a version of Not that
those songs aren't important, you know, there's a place, there's
a place for them, but yeah, these had that happens too. Yeah,
these these are you know, it's really nice to see
in real time you helping someone because that's what that's
what music was for us growing up, Like I listened
(03:41):
to certain songs to help me through the tough times,
and country music as a genre is good for that
because it has the stories and the relatability and the
lyric is so important compared to other genres, and so
it allows itself to help you through life stuff because
that's what the songs are usually about. But that's we
(04:02):
all found songwriting at some point, the professional songwriters, that is,
as a form of therapy ourselves to write about what
we were going through. And why no one made that
connection beforehand, I don't know, but Richard really stumbled in
to some really effective therapy.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Art is like it's one of those things where it
can really take you away and it slows you down.
I look at it as it's a time where you
kind of get away from all the stress. It slows
you down, it allows you to think, It allows you
to recharge in a way that I think a lot
of people don't really realize. We used to joke that
we should have coloring books at our office. I used
to work at a foundry and it's you know, that's
(04:44):
a high stress job and you're constantly trying to get
orders out, you have problems, you've got hot metal, you've
got you know, it's just a high stress job. We
used to joke you should have coloring books out, and
people at break could just and kind of escape from
that because just that act of creating something that there's
(05:06):
no pressure is really cathartic.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Absolutely it is. It is great.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I mean, songwriting is great now when you make it
your profession and.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
You then you've kind of mixed those worlds. So now
you guys, I don't know, you have no no excuse.
You made this your own job.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Well that's why creative vets for us is still a
form of therapy for us, even because it's we're back
to the purest form right of songwriting. We are going
in with a mission and it's getting something out and
putting it into song form. When you work for publishing
companies like we have over the years, it's and it
(05:47):
is a job that starts at a certain time and
you have to achieve this thing that used to come
from inspiration in the middle of the night or something.
You have to do it between the hours of eleven
and two every day, and then sometimes two or three
more times that day. It becomes a little more like
building the house than it started. But but yeah, it's
(06:10):
it's a I mean, I'm not complaining, it's the best
job I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It is whether whether you're inspired or not you're writing
a song that day.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, So we talked to Irving. I want to get
to his story because the reason I had Irving on
the podcast was that I saw him on Fox and
Friends and I was like, wait a minute, Wait a minute.
This man is one hundred and one years old. He
has this new song out. How on earth did this
come to be?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Was this a passion of his? But we didn't really
get into that because Irving's story is so amazing and
I urge you to listen to that podcast if you
hadn't haven't had a chance to. He stormed the beaches
of Normandy on D Day. He was there, he went
through the Battle of the Bulge. He was there when
they liberated the concentration camps. He helped to speak to
(06:59):
some of the victim in the camps. I mean, his
story is so powerful and he was openly sharing it
with us. And I look at that, I look back
at what I learned in history class, and I think
we watched a lot of the videos of in the
nineteen forties of World War Two and what was happening.
But to actually have the opportunity to sit with someone
(07:21):
who lived it, who understands it. And you could see
when we were talking about this before we started recording,
it's so fresh for him still. I mean at one
hundred and one, you know, we're seventy plus years past this,
and he was still the minute you talk about going
(07:42):
to the camp and seeing what was there. The emotion
is so fresh and so raw for him. And he
shared that story with you, which is how this song
came about. But how do you get connected? How did
you know? How did you know when you were talking
to him? I mean that has to sort of be
still you're up in the middle of night like this
is there's something here.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I mean the connection came through which he was there
in the room for the interview that you saw him
in initially and for for the he helps facilitate things
with Irving. But David Booth, who's another amazing veteran combat
veteran who has his own story and his own song
with creative Vets in his own VSO and his own VSOS. Yes, Like,
(08:25):
that's the amazing thing is you meet through these vs
these veteran service organizations, you'll meet other people and they.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
All work together so well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And he presented Irving, you know because Irving's one hundred
and one years old, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
We want has not seen that, by the way, at all.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Not even clothes. And yeah, but we wanted to make
sure his story. You know, Irving obviously has worked through
what he's been through, like you said, though it's very
fresh for him, but he he is at a point
in his life where it's not debilillitating for him. His
PTS is not debilitating. And so the point of this song.
(09:04):
Sometimes when we're writing with veterans, it's like, how do
we purge them of this weight they're carrying and help
them have a new lease on life kind of thing,
And with Irving it was more of a documenting his
story and song forim kind of thing and it being
a cool thing for him to have for his presentation.
(09:25):
So when we sat down with him, he just wanted
to talk about his message, and his message was this
all costs something, you know, everything, the way we get
to live and the freedoms we have in this world
cost his friends, you know, that ultimate price, and he
feels like some young people don't walk around realizing that,
(09:50):
you know, like some others might. And so that was
the message he wanted to get out was to make
sure that the intensity, like in the lines were we say,
one thousand and sixteen, poor innocent souls rising with the
smoke that was in reference to guard a egg and
where he walked up and witnessed what he witnessed there
(10:10):
and having the weight of seeing red waves at Utah Beach,
the fact that there was so much blood that the
ocean looked red. That kind of intensity was those lyrics
were put in there to first establish the amount of
weight is being discussed, and then to help people realize
that that was al so we can play Fortnite all
(10:33):
day long now or whatever?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
So young, too, so young to he was eighteen, just
a kid, I mean, And that was to me so
powerful to hear him say, you know, I was in
charge because I was the one that had a big family.
So he was telling us because he had a big family,
even though he was the youngest, he had always been
it always had to take care of each other. So
(10:58):
his mom was always like, hey, take care of your
brother and sisters. So he was used to that feeling
of like we're a team. And to me, I mean
that was encouraging to me having four kids of my
own because I always kind of feel that way they've
taught each other a lot. I mean, as parents, we
teach our kids a lot, but your kids actually teach
each other a lot too, And the way they interact
(11:19):
is very powerful for how they will be when they're older.
And I've seen it as my girls have grown up.
But that was what I took from his story. You
were a kid, but what you learned at your house
at home was so powerful that he went into the
most stressful situation you can possibly go into it life
and kept a level head and a positive attitude. That
(11:41):
was the most amazing thing was to say, I was
always trying to joke. I was always trying to say
look at the bright side, look at this. I mean
when he so if you didn't watch the podcast, I
also encourage you. You can watch it on Rumble or
YouTube because he shows us a lot of the equipment
that they used. He still has a lot of what
he was in the field with at his home. So
(12:03):
he had the helmet. When he took the helmet off,
and he said, the inside of the helmet comes out.
This is what you do everything. This is how you
wash your face, this is how you brush your teeth.
This is how, this is how you wash your clothes,
and you think you are out in a field. There
are no showers, you don't have there's not TV or
Fortnite or toilets. I mean he talked about building toilets
(12:24):
because there was that was such a luxury for the
guys to have a board up above where they could
sit and just go to the bathroom on a board.
When I hear that, I think these stories and what
you're doing is so powerful because that song creates conversation,
and the conversation is so important for young people today
(12:45):
because even my generation, we didn't get drafted.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I remember my parents talking about the Vietnam draft. And
I can remember a girlfriend of mine saying that her
dad never spoke about anything that had happened in war,
but she knew he had nightmares and she could hear
him yelling in the middle of the night. And I
think these were things that this my generation, the millennial generation,
(13:13):
my kids' generations, will not understand because we were never
just ripped away from our homes and forced to go
out and join this war. Those are powerful things to
remind them of or to tell them, I mean, to
have them learn through song, So I would say that
the songs are not just to heal the people that
(13:36):
went through it, but it's a teaching method.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
It's perspective, right, That's what Heidi and I get out
of all these rights we walk out it is. So
it's annoying at the same time because we get ourselves
complaining about stuff, but we have fresh, veteran stories in
our minds all the time to go, why am I
complaining about this? You know, Larry was stuck in the
(13:59):
jungle for four days, because you know, we know that
we have all these stories to pull from all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
But perspective is a big thing.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I think that's what Irving was talking about with
maybe young people, is he's having an issue getting into
some schools because these schools think that the topic is
a little heavy for these kids. But I look back
at the formative parts of my life like that.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Made me who I am. We're all very.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Intense things like that, and sometimes at young ages, like
for instance, I have a soft spot in my heart
and do a lot of work for children with disabilities.
And I don't know what the current politically correct term
is for it, but kids that are have mental deficiencies
and stuff. So there's a place in Orlando called the
(14:53):
Russell Holme and I used to visit it at a
young age and was exposed to every every version and
of that that exists, like the spectrum of people with
those disabilities. And because of that, I've you know, it's
just made me. It's just given me a better perspective
on life. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue
(15:13):
next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
When I was a kid, we did a lot of
We had a lot of people, like you're saying, even
disabilities like limb differences or you know, wheelchair or just
anything that was different. They wanted kids when I was
growing up. They wanted kids to understand that different isn't bad,
Different is different, and that and the people that are
(15:41):
different than you they can sometimes do things that you
would never imagine and things better than you.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So it was like this ability to learn that there
are so many differences in the world. And it feels
like that's been taken out of school. It's almost been
replaced by political ideology, which I think is very unfortunate
because it is so important too. I do think we
had a more welcoming and more loving community. When that
was taught. We also did learn actually a lot about
(16:09):
World War Two. And I would say, it didn't strike
me that my kids haven't learned as much as we did.
And I said this to Irving. I don't know if
it was because my generation was closer to it, our
grandparents had gone and so it was so still so
stunning that there were videos and there was quite a
bit of we had quite a bit of curriculum on
(16:33):
World War Two, but we go every eighth grade class
with our middle school goes to Washington, d c. And
they always go through the Holocaust Museum. And it was
it didn't strike me until I watched their faces when
they saw the things that happened in World War Two.
And it was so striking to me that my kids
(16:56):
would look at this and go, why are they so
in what happened? And it was like this moment where
we take an extra long time to go there because
the kids pause and they go, why did this happen?
How did this happen? Explain this? And it's such an
interactive museum. So you brought up the veteran before we
(17:19):
got on, who said, we look at this now and
go why did we fight? Why did we lose people?
I think that it is so important for them to
know that. This next generation, I think is more curious
than mine, or the millennial generation than excer millennials. I
think they're more curious about how to bring peace back
(17:41):
because of the chaos that we see, and when they
learn about this, they go, oh, we can't let that happen.
That's what a world war looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
That.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I agree completely. I think history is something that it
gets overlooked now too. As far as the importance of
knowing it. I'm a big history buff and that's why
I get nervous when I look at the state of
the world sometimes because I know how little, the little
things it took to spark You know, when you when
(18:13):
you study old wars and you see, wait, that started
from this, and then you look out into the world
and you're like, well, we could at any point head
down that same wrong direction again.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And I think if.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
People knew irving story, they would be less they would
be more cautious about heading down that wrong direction again.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, and even they're clearly not being taught everything Irving.
It breaks my heart because this clearly he brings it
up every time we're around him, is that people come
up to him and tell him he's lying, he's exaggerating.
Those aren't the numbers. You're making that up. It didn't
really happen, all these terrible things that they're saying to
his face. I just can't imagine walking up to a
(18:58):
one hundred and one year old World War Two veteran
and who liberated guard a lag in one of the
worst concentration camps, and someone saying that he's a liar.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And that that didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
People, And that was the whole point of the song,
is that people need to know it did happen. We
are not exaggerating, we're not lying.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
This is what happened. It's stunning because that seems to
be I mean, we're seeing this anti semitism really rise
in across the globe, and I think it's been so
shocking for us how quickly it seems to have happened.
But you know, I look back and I think about
(19:35):
this synagogue in Pittsburgh that was attacked, and at that
time it was there were warnings. I remember people going
anti Semitism is really on the rise in this country,
and people kind of swept it under the rug and said, no,
it's not. But you think about Irving. The reason he
was so effective in these discussions with the survivors of
(19:59):
the Constant Treition campus because he's Jewish and he could
speak Yiddish and he could communicate with them and to
look at him and that It's not just that they
could look at him and say you're lying. It's the
lack of respect that we are seeing right now in
the United States. I mean, even we talked about country
(20:20):
music used to be about you know, losing your wife
and drinking too much and crashing your truck and all
of that. But now we suddenly see these country music songs.
And I have to say country music had historically kind
of been connected with conservative values. But now we see
country music songs that are political in a way where
they're like anti ice and there's it's not patriotic and
(20:43):
they're anti police. That seems like a weird turn for
country music.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I agree, it's it is not what we're used to
like back.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I mean, we have the old controversies like you had
Toby Keith and I guess now they're known as the
Chicks and and their their issues that they had back
in the day.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
For like, I feel like Toby.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Because they're the Chicks, because they realized that they were
not okay, it was not okay to be the Dixie Chicks,
which I call my kids that all the time because
we were. Our last name is Dixon. That's cute.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Well, I thought when they came out that the Chicks
was going to be the issue, Like I thought that
it would be righting themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
What that heck, I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah, I didn't think that was going to be the
one to go. But but stuff changes really quickly. But
you know, all that stuff to say, like you woke today,
and I kind of stay as much out of it
as we can. Obviously we have our opinions and our
beliefs and all those things, and but we also our
job is music and entertainment and helping people. And I
(21:55):
feel like if we get to pointed in one direction,
there might be someone we could have helped that they
wouldn't have reached out to us because of something we
thought or said and the But I also think that
all we do is music. I don't have the time
to study all this stuff like you you do. This
is more your laying in your job and you are
(22:16):
more educated. I think the way I put it in
the past is that we're we have we have more
influence than we have intelligence with some of this stuff
as musicians, so we get this platform and all these
people that we have influence over. And I'm not saying
Heidi and I, but.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
In general, singers, actors, you know, they have these big
platforms and then.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
And they might not have all the information because they
don't have time. That's not there, it's not what they're doing.
So they're basically going by off, you know, going by
something they've heard or seen anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
So but I kind of love the idea that we
go back to. I think that was one of the
beauties of even Irving's time, and I was just so
the movie The Holiday always comes back out at the
holiday season, and it's probably like twenty years old now,
but the theme of the movie is kind of like
you're going back in time and there's an older gentleman
(23:14):
and they're learning about what filmmaking was like when film
was first coming out, when they first were putting movies
up on the big screen, and even now twenty years later,
I watch this and I go, gosh, it's not even
like that anymore. You know, this was a great movie,
and it's a beloved holiday movie because it kind of
takes you back to even what creativity and art was
(23:38):
twenty years ago. And I see now, you see a
lot of these actors who have said I don't want
to talk about politics. I applaud that. I love being entertained.
I don't care what your politics are. I love when
someone creates a great movie, creates a great song, has
a wonderful piece of art work. I am not biased
(24:02):
by who did it. I don't care. I don't want
to hear if you want. If you hate my politics
and I hate your politics, I can still appreciate if
you can create something amazing. I can still appreciate that
Rob Reiner has made amazing movies and say we didn't
agree on anything of politics, and that what happened to
(24:23):
him is one of the worst tragedies that I have
seen in my adult life. I can still say that.
Do you think that we can move toward a time
when we start to see art come back and we
take the hatred out of it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I mean, I hope so, I mean I think that
would be I think it still exists the way we
we remember it in some places, in some avenues. But
I know exactly what you mean, Like I don't when
I'm hiding and I watch what we call warm hug
movies sometimes, and they're movies.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Like usually from the nineties, you know, like our childhood
where we're flicks maybe that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Do you have a problem with the word check, don't you?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, I know they're not romantic.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I mean, like like Forrest Gump is a warm hug
movie because it has the it has the score. Yeah,
it has the score, the story is all great. I'm
not being challenged at any point.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah right, you can just fall into it.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah right. And there's music like that as well.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I mean, obviously, music has been political for a long time,
you know, in various genres and stuff. I mean it,
musicians definitely, you know, the poets like to get to
dabble in that, obviously, and they have since I mean forever,
you know. But but I don't, you know, I'm not
(25:46):
looking to if I'm going for a walk or something,
or if I'm golfing, I don't want to be challenged
politically while I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Listening to music.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
I want to warm hug music kind of going where
it just kind of is is medicinal in a way
where it's comforting and calming and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I saw something yesterday because all these things are coming
up about Rob Reiner's movies now, and I saw this
clip of him saying there's a scene in The Princess
Bride that he absolutely hates because you can see a
glare on the camera. She's on her horse and she's riding,
she's riding around the castle and you see the glare
(26:27):
on the camera, and he said, it drives me crazy
because suddenly you're aware that it's being filmed. You're supposed
to just feel like you are there watching it, You've
been taken into the movie, and yet you can see
it's being filmed. And I think that, you know, I
would I would never have noticed that. But I do
think there is this beauty in just taking people away,
(26:52):
and that's what you do with your songs, is that
you just you are taken out of that and it,
like I said, creativity just makes you kind of pull
away from the stress of the world and you get
to go into an alternate world.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, well, I agree.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I think it's it's also the job of the creator
to create something that is also be able to be
enjoyed universally. I think comedians do it really well. Heidi
and I if we were if it was a big
reveal on us for anything. We love comedy all you know,
lots of forms of comedy, and we probably listen to
comedians that you'd be like what you ass But if
(27:32):
the if the joke is written well, I don't have
to agree with the premise to enjoy the punchline.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
If it's funny.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
If it's really funny, then that's fine. Same thing with
any other topic. If the song is great and the
result is that, I'm I enjoyed the experience and say
there is a message in there, you know, as long
as it's done correctly.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I think that that, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Like, for instance, Garth Brooks had some political songs back
in the day that you could have taken that way,
like The Change or we Shall Be Free, where he
talks about hot topic items like world hung you know,
he says when the Last Child cries for a crust
of bread is one of the lyrics. So he's talking
about these issues, but it's generic, like let's move towards
(28:20):
a better place. Let's let's uh fix all these these
things and less divisive, you know, stuff in the lyric
where it's like this side or the other side. And
I just think that if it's done correctly, anybody can
enjoy it and your message gets heard as a result,
I guess. But if it's just done to cost issue,
(28:45):
you know, then you can easily tell that, you know,
and it's there's an agenda kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So Heidi, let me ask you this because I just
saw Wait, it's the Oscars that they're putting on YouTube, right,
So to me, that's and I read this. Gosh, it
was like a headline that said this is a watershed
moment for Hollywood, and I thought, you kind of did
this to yourselves, but they, I mean, it is a
big deal to these folks that suddenly this awards show
(29:13):
that had had great ratings, clearly the ratings are not
what they used to be and now they're moving to YouTube.
But at the same time, I feel like it's it
is kind of an interesting environment because I have seen
a lot of these celebrities who have said I don't
want to have my voice out there. I mean, even
who is it the girl that recently she was a
(29:36):
real big loud mouth about all the political stuff and
she I'm looking at Sarah, but she can't remember it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
The Hunger Games girl.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yes, Yes, the Hunger Games girl.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Jennifer Oh, I didn't know that Lawrence.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yes, Jennifer Lawrence. She was like, they asked her about it,
and she's like, you know what, it doesn't People don't
want to hear from celebrities on that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And that.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I applaud her for that because she had been so loud,
and I think that was probably a hard thing to say,
but it is true because I like to watch the
films that she makes, but it makes me uncomfortable knowing
that she probably hates me, you know, and I don't
want to think about her as a person. I want
to think about her character. Do you think that this
is going to there's going to be a shift back
(30:18):
towards some of the great art that we saw. I mean,
I look back at even you know, some of the
movies that we grew up with, like e T. I
look at that and I'm like, that's the kind of
movie I want to see again.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean no, I think is that a
hug movie?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, by a little alien person.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
But still a one hug film installagic.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah, but no, I mean Heidi's uh, I think she
was asking you, honey.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I mean, yeah, I hope so, and I I agree
the same way, like I it'll Johnny and I will go,
you know, open our phone and there's name our favorite
actor said this that we don't agree with politically, or
they did something, they celebrated something that you know, we
wouldn't agree with that kind of thing. It's hard to
(31:10):
not go ah, such a you know, it is hard
to separate the two. And like you just said, I
think Jennif Lawrence makes amazing movies. She's funny, she's super talented.
You want to be your friend, Like, doesn't she seem
like someone that you'd want to hang out with? And
so it's it's hard to separate the two. But yeah,
I hope we can get back to that. Well.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Yeah, comedy is one of the places like that we
we love. You know, stuff gets explained pretty well. But
like Heidi and I both grew up massive Michael Jackson fans,
were you still love the music? I mean, obviously the no,
it's not one hundred percent, but you know, we all
kind of know what we know if and there's a
(31:54):
comedian out there and I can't remember his name to
give him credit, but the gist of his joke is,
you know, if you watch that documentary and you still
listen to Michael Jackson's music, then you're a monster. And
then he laughs and goes, Which is why I haven't
watched the documentary yet because.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I love those songs and see it's hard to not
attach what you know about them personally to what they
do professionally.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So but there's more that goes.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
The other thing is there's more people's work that goes
into those things than there's the band players, the songwriters,
the producers.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You know, he's watching for that.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
If you're talking about quite so many amount of people
that have to go into creating anything, whether it's a
song or art or a movie, whatever type of art
it is, there you are putting so many people's careers
at risk. And and I think, and you know, people
are like, oh gosh, what's the future of all of this?
Is it all going to be ai? And will there
(32:52):
be people at all? And I think the beauty of
the pain that we go through as people is that
that pain creates really amazing stories and helps other people
who are going through pain. That to me has always
been the beauty of movies like Steel, Magnolias and all
of these really tough movies. But if you've ever gone
(33:14):
through an illness, or if ever you want it's kind
of like Misery Loves Company in some cases, you want
to see that. You want to see how they came
through that. And those great stories come from a place
that someone felt, you know, it had to come from somewhere.
So I do hope that we get back to that.
I appreciate that you guys are focused on telling the
(33:37):
stories and teaching people and at the same time helping
so many people that have gone through more than I
can ever imagine. So before I let you go, just
tell us about a little bit about Creativets and that
how people can help with that. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Creativets dot org is their website and across social media
everywhere they're at creative It's they they need funding because
their wait list is crazy long right now, so many
veterans need these programs. They have an art program, a
songwriting program, So it started with songwriting and through this
(34:17):
they've discovered, you know, they have the art program the
astrophotography program. They take people to New Mexico and they
have these telescopes and they take these incredible photos and
they're teaching new skills and it's all about that neuroplasticity.
So they're challenging you to learn a new skill, develop
a new talent. And it is it's just been the
(34:38):
greatest thing we've ever got to do in music.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And I mean that, and I say it a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I've can watch other interviews and you say in the
same thing and I feel like a broken record, But
it really is. Johnny and I have been in the
music business since we were kids, and you know, we
both thought we'd He wanted to be Garth Brooks and
I wanted to be Reeven McIntyre, and we thought we'd
be you know, big superstars, selling out stadiums.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
That was our childhood goal kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And we just, you know, we feel like God gave
us these talents and I feel like I've finally found
how I'm supposed to be using them. It's sitting down
with people like Irving or Larry Jordan and Lenn Erics
and these Vietnam veterans, these World War Two veterans who
did so much for us. It's not just like, oh,
they did a small favor one time, like they literally
(35:27):
were okay with dying for us. That is doesn't get
much bigger than that. And so the least that we
can do is sit down with them and give them
a day of our time and we talk. They tell
us whatever it is they want to talk about. We
leave it open to them. We tell them, we want
to write the song that you can't talk about whatever
(35:48):
it is. You can't talk about whatever it is it
keeps you up at night, or that makes you struggle
at home or struggle throughout your day, that thing that
keeps nagging in the back of your mind that you
just can't shake. That that is what we want to write,
because then you get it out and then you don't
have to talk about it anymore. You talked about it,
you got it out, you put it in a song,
and now you can share that with your spouse or
(36:09):
your kids, or your friends who don't understand why does
dad have night terrors and cry out the middle of
the night, Well, you know, listen to this three and
a half minute song, and it gives people that perspective
and that understanding and that history and fills in the
gaps where people don't know what's going on and is it.
Truly has been the best, the coolest, the most rewarding
(36:33):
thing we've ever got to do is help these veterans.
And we feel a little guilty sometimes leaving going. I
hope they got as much out of it as I
got out of it. Like he said, it's the best
perspective lesson and history lesson that you can get is
sitting down with these people and hearing their stories, and
then we get to help them get it out and
(36:53):
write it and it's exciting for them. Irving became a
published songwriter at one hundred and one and he has
a single out there on Big Machine Records that's like
Taylor Swift's record Late, Like that's.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
A big deal.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And it's so exciting to see them heal and be
excited about it. And it's also exciting to see the
change that happens. Usually we meet someone and on the
other side of it they seem like a different person,
like they have joy or they have peace. There's this
(37:26):
change that happens in real time from before we sit
down until after the song is finished that we get
to see and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I love that and I love that piece that you
have in finding why God gave you that gift, because
I think that's something that our kids grow up and
they go, Okay, God gave me this. Let's take a
quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.
I watch my girls and I'm like, Okay, I'm watching
(37:57):
the gifts that they have been given and the quality
that are unique to them that I know God has
a plan for and I just I'm curious what is
that plan and how does he want them to use that?
And it's funny because you can sometimes go, oh, I've
been gifted with this, so it must mean this, and
then God shows you a different path. And I just
love that story of that piece that comes with knowing
(38:19):
what God wants from you for sure.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, and Heidi touched on it too. You can listen
to Creative It's music out there. They do have a
deal with Big Machine Records and they've released a bunch
of songs and any veterans who might you know, We've
found that a lot of veterans get a lot of help. Well,
what was the Irving Locker one that the lyric change Heidi,
that someone did in the column.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh so from Fox and Friends when they played Irving
song it Freedom was Free, which is streamable and downloadable
everywhere you get music. Someone wrote in the comments. So
the first verse is I stepped on that ship in
New York City and by Hell's Gate, it hit me.
Sometimes evil does its best to take it, and heroes
(39:02):
have to give it all to save it. If Freedom
was Free goes into the chorus, and someone in the
comments under the Fox and Friends clip had written the
change of the lyrics about but they put their story
and I stepped on that ship in Mississippi and by
whatever landmark that was there, it hit me, and I just,
(39:23):
you know, total stranger heard the song and went, hey,
that's my story.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Different war, even like they were talking about different war.
And this happens so much where veterans. The stories are unique,
but there is a thread that runs through all of
them where they are able to connect and not feel
so alone. And a lot of the veterans songs that
we write, that's kind of the point of their story.
They're like, I want people to know I went through
it too. You're not by yourself in this. And so
(39:50):
some veterans might get a lot of healing from listening
to the playlist that Creativet's have released. In fact, Richard's
trying to start like a music RX, kind of like
a prescription music based thing where you can actually search
like Felujah two thousand, you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Know, put in time.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Wow, that's some keywords.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
So people who who served at the same time, same place,
went through you know, some of the same stuff, can
actually search for a veteran who who went through that
and listened to their song about it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And see their story of the same experience. That's that
is very incredible. Well, what you guys are doing is amazing.
It's creativets dot org. Right, yeah, that's right, check it out.
Help them give because this is absolutely critical and it
brings us back to a time of focusing on art
and positivity and warm hugs. Johnny and Heidi Bulford, thank
(40:45):
you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank thank
you for having us absolutely and thank you all for
listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As you know, you
can get it anywhere you get your podcasts, the iHeartRadio,
ap Apple podcasts, or you can watch it on Rumble
or YouTube at Tutor Dixon but make sure you join
us next time, and have a blessed day.
Host
Tudor Dixon
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