March 26, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode, Erika Donalds discusses her new role as chair of the America First Policy Institute Center for Education Opportunity and her long-standing commitment to school choice. The conversation delves into the implications of dismantling the Department of Education, the impact of bureaucracy on education, and the importance of state accountability. Donalds highlights the success of Florida's school choice programs and the influence of teachers' unions on education policy. The episode concludes with a discussion about her husband Byron Donalds' political aspirations and the future of education policy in the U.S. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network. For more visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
#schoolchoice #educationreform #DepartmentofEducation #accountability #Florida #education #teacherunions #ByronDonalds #AmericaFirstPolicyInstitute #educationfunding #educationalopportunities
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we have a
returning guest, Erica Donald on the show. I'm very excited
because she is a returning guest, but she has a
new role in the world, and it's a very important one.
She is the chair of the America First Policy Institute
Center for Education Opportunity. Erica, I know you've founded a
bunch of charter schools and this has been your area
(00:23):
of interest for about fifteen years now, and I'm so
impressed that you get to do this and kind of
interface with the new administration. So tell us a little
bit about how that's going.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, I really am living in my school choice dream
world right now that I've been working on school choice
for fifteen years. I served on my local school board
about ten years ago, but dedicated my life to expanding
education opportunities for families like myself.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
That's why I got into this.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I needed school choice for my own kids, and being
at America First Policy Institute heading up their education nationally.
Not only do I get to continue to work on
school choice in the States, which is where it belongs,
as we know, but I also get to interface with
the White House and Congress and Secretary of McMahon and
her team on the things that they're doing to respond
(01:10):
to the executive orders and to eventually dismantle the Department
of Education. So I'm really having a great time traveling
back and forth to DC and just making sure that
we use this time that we have with Trump and
office to deliver on his promises to the American people.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, and that last one that you mentioned, dismantling the
Department of ED, obviously that's getting quite a bit of attention,
and there's some people that I think it's misleading. I
think the media has been very misleading about what the
Department of ED does the federal Department of ED. So
you have your state Department of Ed and then you
have the Federal Department of Ed. There is a certain
(01:45):
amount of funding, But can we just kind of go
through from your perspective what that looks like, because I
think people hear that and there's suddenly stories about kids
aren't going to get their lunches anymore, and there's going
to be money taken from teachers and all of that.
If we can just kind of dive into what that means.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely, the Federal Department of Education doesn't educate a single child.
It actually only makes up about ten percent of the
education funding that makes it down to each individual classroom
in our public education system. A lot of that is
focused on low income and special needs students. But President
Trump and Secretary McMahon had made it very clear that
(02:24):
that funding.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Is going to continue.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So then what does it mean to dismantle the Department
of Education if the funding is going to continue to flow.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Well, some of that funding was being.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Passed down to the states to handle these responsibilities through
HHS before the Department of Education.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Even existed forty five years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So we're going back to the way it was. Doesn't
need to be a separate department. That money can still
flow to the states.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
But what is going away.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's the multiple layers of bureaucracy that is required to
report back on the services that are being given to
the students. We've heard from teachers that they spend more
time filling out paperwork than actually performing services for students
with special needs. We want to take that away, eliminate
the bureaucracy, allow states and local districts to ensure that
(03:08):
these services are going to continue, but give them more
money and more flexibility in order to serve the students
that they know best.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So were they having to fill out those that information
to get that back to get grants and that kind
of thing. I mean, because it just seems like that's
something that should have always been on the local level.
Even if you get a grant, there should be someone
kind of interfacing on the ground to make sure that
that is actually what it went to is actually happening.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And that's why the federal department existed. Frankly, they were
passing out money and someone at the state level had
to receive that money and document how they passed it
down to the local level. Someone at the local district
had to be there as an employee getting paid to
document how it goes down to the classroom. The teacher
has to report back what services that has to report
back from the district and state. Think about the multiple
(03:58):
layers of bureaucrafts that are acquired just for money to
go from the federal government down to the classrooms. What's
astonishing is that the teachers' unions, who control most of
these individuals between the federal government and the classrooms, are
the ones saying that they're no longer going to provide
these services, even though they're going to be getting the money.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To do so.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So I think that's been kind of the confusion when
you've heard people talk about this, is that they feel
like this has been there forever. You know, for most
of us, we've always known that there was a federal
Department of ED from the time we were little kids
to now, this has been there, and it seems like, gosh,
this is a massive amount of people. How many people
work at the Department of Ed four thousand?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well before two weeks ago it was about forty four hundred.
But as you probably know, just a week after Lenna
McMahon was confirmed, they did a reduction in force which
cut that number in half. And this was excess waste
and bloat. Frankly, one of the examples that they gave
us was that there were six different strategic communications departments
in the departm of Education. Obviously, that's not helping students
(05:02):
get educated. That's messaging to whomever, right, And the average
salary at the department was one hundred and forty thousand dollars.
So now, after the reduction in force, and after some
of the employees a few hundred took the buyouts that
were offered we're down to about thirteen hundred employees in
the department.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Remaining.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Some of those maybe shifted off to other departments that
are taking on some of the responsibilities Office of Civil Rights,
we're talking about going to Treasure, to Justice, the student
loan portfolio, maybe going to SBA, as the President announced
last week. So some of those employees will continue to
do those functions in a different department. But d OI
was already the smallest department in the federal government, so
(05:45):
it does not need to remain a department unto itself,
just so that some of the functions can continue.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I mean, it's interesting because I've heard so many people say,
how can you support getting rid of these people and
just cutting them? And in these conversations, you know, I
think a lot of us who are in the private
sector have said, you know, it's unfortunate, but when you
restructure a business, people lose their jobs and they have
to find other jobs. And though I don't ever wish
that upon someone, there are other jobs out there. However,
(06:14):
you saying that the average salary was one hundred and
forty thousand kind of blows my mind a little bit.
I think that's more than the governor of Michigan makes
in a year, you know, so I'm a little bit
stunned by that. And I can see now why there
is so much concern because your lifestyle is going to
really change. I mean, that's there aren't that many jobs
out there that you come into from a government position
(06:38):
and you would go into at forty one hundred and
forty thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's unfortunate, you know. You and I have the same
compassion for these individuals. Many of them are there because
they love education. Maybe they have come from a teaching
position and worked their way up. And it's not about that.
Our nation is in crisis in more ways than one.
Like we're in a debt crisis. We've got to get
our spending on control at the federal level. Our children
are inheriting this massive debt and bureaucracy. So that's one thing,
(07:06):
But our nation is also in an academic performance crisis
where we're turning out only one in three students that
are reading proficiently.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
How are these people.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Going to run our businesses, run our cities and our
counties and our states and carry forward the responsibilities of
a republic. So we have to fix this problem. We
cannot continue at the status quo, and I fully support
all of the actions that Trump has taken and immediate actions,
thank goodness, to get this really bureaucracy under control and
push the accountability as well down to the states to
(07:39):
just do better with their performance.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Well, and how do you? I mean, I guess there's
some of that is a concern of how do you
keep the states accountable if you have no federal Department
of ED and we're coming off of COVID. I think
Secretary McMahon is walking in at a time when everybody
has been very lax a day's ago about holding anyone accountable.
I mean, in the state of Michigan, we're now the
forty first state in the nation for education. It's really
(08:03):
gone down. Hell, I mean this has gone down I
think ten points since Gretchen Whitmer took office. And there
doesn't seem to be a lot of push. It's kind
of one of those uncomfortable conversations, to be honest with you,
because if you sit down and you say, man, the
schools in the state are terrible. Parents are like, what
do you know, what do you want us to do?
This is our schools? So you're insulting me, You're saying
(08:23):
something that is very offensive to me. And I think
even with the options, even with the school choice options,
a lot of people end up in public schools, so
and we should want our public schools to thrive. So
what is the answer to getting those schools back on
tracks so kids are reading.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think a lot of it does have to do
with transparency, and that is one aspect of the federal
Department that will continue, perhaps in a different area like
the census, to expose how our schools are performing in
the different states, and even maybe in a more granular
way so parents and voters can hold their elected officials accountable.
But ultimately it is the responsibility of the states and
(09:03):
then the voters of those states to hold elected officials
accountable if their students are not performing.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And right now you have a bit of finger pointing.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Because there are so many federal mandates, it's easy for
a state to say, well, you know, the federal government
is involved and we've got to do this, this and that.
We don't want to have them allow that excuse any longer.
So with the states completely responsible for education, that's where
the voters can look at the performance and say, listen,
Governor Whitmer, you are doing a terrible job and these
(09:36):
students are not performing under your watch, and hold that
person accountable. And yeah, the Blue States are going to
have to come to a reckoning with their voters, just
like they have on many other issues. But unfortunately the
Red States are going to, I believe, with school choice,
competition and free market continue to outperform, and maybe that's
a source of competition amongst the states.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
All right, we're going to get back into all of
the details with Erica Donald's but first I want to
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two five. Now stay tuned. We'll be right back with
Erica after this. For those of the folks that are
in a state that doesn't have school choice, I mean
in Michigan, we have choice within the public education system,
(11:21):
but it doesn't extend to private schools or faith based schools.
For a state like Florida, explain your school choice program
and how that's changed the state of education over the years.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
We are so fortunate in Florida to be a school
choice state. We now have both public and private school choice.
About ten percent of our kids are in charter schools,
and those students are outperforming their demographic equivalent in the
public schools.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Not only that, but.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
There's also studies around the country showing that when there
is choice, even if it's just charter schools public school choice,
it does elevate the performance of the related public schools
in those areas. In Florida, we also have private school
choice in the form of education Scholarship accounts. Now fourteen
states have universal essays, but in Florida we have over
five hundred thousand students that are on an ESA where
(12:13):
they're getting nine thousand dollars per student to use on
tuition at a private school. But they can also customize
taking different courses, purchasing curriculum and materials and things like that.
So it is a completely different ballgame here in Florida
where we're starting to see the supply and the innovation
come about, and there's more and more options for families
(12:35):
here in Florida. I think people are going to start
moving down to states like Florida, Arizona, soon to be Texas,
Tennessee because they're going to get that extra money to
help their children get a better education.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Is the ESA program there public publicly funded or is
that privately funded?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It is publicly funded.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It used to be a tax credit scholarship, and hopefully
we'll have a federal tax credit scholarship here passing soon,
but we did change it over to where it is
funded with the same dollars that would otherwise go to
your public school are now going into an account that
is controlled by the parents.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So the complaint with that is then you could potentially
be closing public schools. How has that in I mean,
the numbers that I've seen, it doesn't show that public
schools do close. But how what have you seen in Florida?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
In public schools don't close regardless. I mean they could
be completely empty and they won't close. Even in Florida,
We've had a really hard time getting school boards to
come to the realization that you have to close these
schools or consolidate and give these kids another opportunity because
it is failing. Listen, I was on the school board.
I've been in these battles of this school is half empty.
(13:41):
What do we need to do to attract students? I
think it takes them hitting rock bottom. And I'm sorry,
but that's the way that the system works. When you fail,
you cannot be subsidized. You cannot be rewarded for failure.
With more money and more subsidization, we have to have
the same accountability for schools, public schools that we would
for private schools, that we would for charter schools and
(14:03):
any other business, or we're not going to see the
improvement that inevitably comes about when failure happens. Failure is
good in a free market society because it tells you
what doesn't work and forces you to redirect those resources
into something that will work.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's what we need.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
We need that, and polls show that people like this.
I mean, that's something that I think that We've had
a lot of pushback in the media, but the polling
of actual voters are saying, hey, we support candidates who
support school choice.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
More than ever, over seventy percent overall support for school choice,
including sixty seven percent of Democrats and higher number for
Independence and much higher well over seventy percent for Republicans.
So this is becoming one of those eighty twenty issues
that the Democrats just refuse to fold on because they
are loyal to the teachers' unions who are funding their campaign.
(14:56):
Ninety eight percent of donations political donations from teach unions
go to Democrats. So even those sixty seven percent of
their voters support school choice zero percent, virtually zero percent
of Democrat legislators and elected officials are supportive of school choice.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Well, I mean, this is a guaranteed income for them.
They if teachers' unions have public schools open, it's a
guaranteed income. And I think that's something that people don't understand,
that teachers are forced into the union in most states,
and then if they're in the union, they're obviously paying dues.
Those dues are getting paid out of their paycheck, which
(15:34):
is taxpayer funded, and therefore your taxpayer dollars are often
funding Democrats to get elected one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And thankfully, you know stays like Florida.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I actually advocated for paycheck protection for ten years before
it finally got passed under Governor DeSantis. So prop to
him and the legislature for finally getting it done. And
that means that our school districts no longer subsidize the
collection of union dues on behalf of our teachers' unions.
They cannot be automatically taken out of the paychecks any longer.
(16:07):
That combined with laws that allow for decertification when union
membership falls below a certain threshold. In Florida, believe it's
now fifty percent. It keeps the unions on their toes
and in some cases allows for another type of organization
to come in to be the collective bargaining unit for
those teachers that may not have the same political ties
as a traditional teachers union member of one of the
(16:29):
national organizations.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So we're seeing reforms.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Obviously, we've gotten some Supreme Court decisions that have gone
our way as well, not forcing people to be members
of the union any longer in the states around the country,
and so I think that will continue to evolve. But
that's also why school choice is so great for teachers,
because it gives them a non union option that will
allow great teachers to thrive and even perhaps get paid
more for their better performance for going into more difficult neighborhoods,
(16:56):
which you cannot do in the public schools.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
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off your first order. Now, stay tuned. We'll be right
back after this. Talked a lot about being in DC.
You said, now that Donald Trump has been elected, you've
been there quite a bit. Obviously, we know your husband
and Congressman Byron Donalds is in DC as much as
(18:25):
Congress is in sessions, so now you're probably actually seeing
a little bit more of him. But you guys recently
made an announcement that you'd like to spend a little
bit more time in Florida, So tell us a little
bit about that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, we're very fortunate that Donald Trump came out and
gave him the run Byron run tweet with a full
endorsement of Byron for governor of Florida. So just a
few days later, about a month ago now, my husband
announced that he would be running for governor. We've been
in Florida since we were in college. We met at
Florida State University, which is in Tallahassee, or state capital,
started dating, got married, built a life, built a family.
(18:59):
We spent twenty years in financial services before ever getting
involved in politics. It was not in our plans at all,
but we have been serving the community in different ways
and just had been encouraged to get more involved in
public service.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So it's kind of been a progression where, you know,
more and more.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
People have trusted us and especially my husband, with decisions
on behalf of our community, from state House to Congress,
and now you know, we hope that we can get
the endorsement of the majority of Floridians to go to
Tallahassee and really make a difference in a state that's
been so good to us and is in such a
great position to really thrive in the coming years. And
(19:36):
DeSantis is turned out, so he's not running again, So
we just are really looking forward to it. It's been
an awesome first month of the campaign, so much the port.
We've got to kick off this weekend a rally in
our hometown here in southwest Florida. So it's it's exciting,
and I just feel honored that so many people trust him,
trust us with such a big responsibility.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There have been some other name that have been thrown around.
I mean, Matt Gates had been thrown around. I think
he said he's not going to run. But you talked
about Ron DeSantis being term limited. Casey DeSantis is not,
so they there has been some talk about the first
lady run of Florida running for governor. What do you think?
What are you hearing behind the scenes on that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know that has come up a few times. You
know she's teased to run. I don't know what she's
going to do. But I know my husband has an
incredible track record, you know, both voting in the state
House and in Congress. He's got the most conservative track
record from all of the groups that you know track
these things when it comes to votes. But also he
spent twenty years in financial services, in banking and insurance,
(20:40):
and those are the things that really brings something to
the table for Florida. We have an insurance crisis and
property taxes. He totally understands those issues, and we want
to be the financial and business capital.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Of the world. We're already well on our way there.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So I just think that his background really aligns well
with where we're positioned as a state right now. And
the fact that he does have such a conservative track
record really speaks to Floridians.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I mean, Florida is a unique state because when you're
looking at states like Florida or California, you have a
propensity for natural disasters there. You obviously have a propensity
for hurricanes, and I assume that's what you're talking about
when it comes to insurance. Does he believe that his
background in insurance would help him in crisis situations like that?
(21:26):
Because I think anybody who is looking at who can
lead the state. In your states specifically, that would be
a great concern is that we have a natural disaster
almost every year and that puts you directly into crisis
mode every fall.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Sure, that's one aspect of it. Our insurance market is
really in crisis right now. We've had a lot of
carriers lead the state because of some of the natural disasters.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You know, there's legislation that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Could be improved in order to better the insurance markets here,
both property insurance and car insurance.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So that's a big concern. So just the mechanisms of that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
He did serve as a chair of that committee in
the state House when he was there, but also in
Southwest Florida. Unfortunately, we've had a lot of direct hits
while he has been a representative either at the state
or congressional level, so he has been on the ground
in Southwest Florida. I remember during IRMA there were three
weeks that I didn't see him because he was out
there on the ground helping our community when we first
(22:24):
got hit in twenty seventeen. We got hit with ian
a couple of years ago, and of course he was
in Congress at the time, so facilitating a lot of
those disaster recovery efforts, So he's got that direct experience,
not just in the markets and preparing for those things,
but actually being on the ground helping our community directly
when they hit.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Well. I mean, it sounds like you have a lot
ahead of you with these are two big things. You've
got education and you've got a big campaign coming up.
What does Byron what is the for him for the congressman?
What is the biggest issue that he thinks Florida's facing me.
We talked about insurance, but there must be something that
he is just just driving him to get out there
(23:06):
and say, I want to do this one to serve
for the people right directly in my state on the
highest level that he can.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It really does center around individual liberty and freedom.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I think a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
We started off in politics in the Tea Party movement,
and it was all centered around small governments and the
government not getting in the way, picking winners and losers,
doing bailouts. And that's what got us involved in politics
in the first place.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And my husband went back.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And read things like Frederick Bastiat The Law. I've got
John Locke here behind me and my bookshelf, and so
it really comes down to political philosophy that gives people
the best opportunities to succeed in life because.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Government is not tying them up.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
In bureaucracy and regulations and things like that. So you know,
that's kind of the overall picture is having people who
understand what the right political philosophy is in our country
of federalism, individual liberty and choices, property rights, and not
get involved so much in the nuances because there are
going to be new issues that come up that we
(24:08):
can't even think to talk about if he were to
become governor over the next eight years. So you need
someone who has the right principles and the route right
foundation that's going to make the right decision when those
new issues come up that we can't even think to
discuss at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So before I let you go, tell me what do
we expect to see out of you in this new
role at the America First Policy Institute, And what do
we expect to see on the national scale when it
comes to education before you guys dive into this major campaign.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Well, I'm going to continue to work with like I said,
the White House and Lenna McMahon and her team and
Congress to dismantle the Department, answer the executive orders regarding
school choice for the President, and hopefully get the Education
Choice for Children Act through reconciliation, which will be our
first federal tax credit for school choice, and that will
help a lot of blue states where people want school
(24:59):
choice and just won't have access to it through their
state legislatures.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
It's a completely it's.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All tax, it's not on the doe. But we're hoping
to get that passed. But then most importantly, we're supporting
states in their efforts to expand or an act school choice.
We're working with Texas right now to get that across
the finish line.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My first thing that I did in this position was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
To write a letter and help Tennessee get their universal
school choice passed, and then helping to improve those policies
across the board, because there's a lot of experimentation going
on in school choice and in essays, and we want
to make sure everyone gets the very best practices in
place so the most families can take advantage of these
and that we bring about innovation, quality and access for
(25:40):
everyone in a free market environment. So that's what you're
going to expect to see. If you don't already follow
me on Twitter at Erica Donald's please do. And that's
where I try to post everything that's going on, both
federally and statewide so people can stay up to date.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Amazing well, I expect to see great things, and we
are so glad that you came on to talk to
us this so congratulations on your new position, and congratulations
on making the decision as a family to go out
and run for governor. That's a big one, yes, don't
you know it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I
really appreciate it. Hopefully we'll get to.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Talk again soon, absolutely, and thank you all for joining
us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutordison podcast dot com. You can subscribe right there,
or head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a bless day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we have a
returning guest, Erica Donald on the show. I'm very excited
because she is a returning guest, but she has a
new role in the world, and it's a very important one.
She is the chair of the America First Policy Institute
Center for Education Opportunity. Erica, I know you've founded a
bunch of charter schools and this has been your area
(00:23):
of interest for about fifteen years now, and I'm so
impressed that you get to do this and kind of
interface with the new administration. So tell us a little
bit about how that's going.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, I really am living in my school choice dream
world right now that I've been working on school choice
for fifteen years. I served on my local school board
about ten years ago, but dedicated my life to expanding
education opportunities for families like myself.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
That's why I got into this.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I needed school choice for my own kids, and being
at America First Policy Institute heading up their education nationally.
Not only do I get to continue to work on
school choice in the States, which is where it belongs,
as we know, but I also get to interface with
the White House and Congress and Secretary of McMahon and
her team on the things that they're doing to respond
(01:10):
to the executive orders and to eventually dismantle the Department
of Education. So I'm really having a great time traveling
back and forth to DC and just making sure that
we use this time that we have with Trump and
office to deliver on his promises to the American people.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, and that last one that you mentioned, dismantling the
Department of ED, obviously that's getting quite a bit of attention,
and there's some people that I think it's misleading. I
think the media has been very misleading about what the
Department of ED does the federal Department of ED. So
you have your state Department of Ed and then you
have the Federal Department of Ed. There is a certain
(01:45):
amount of funding, But can we just kind of go
through from your perspective what that looks like, because I
think people hear that and there's suddenly stories about kids
aren't going to get their lunches anymore, and there's going
to be money taken from teachers and all of that.
If we can just kind of dive into what that means.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely, the Federal Department of Education doesn't educate a single child.
It actually only makes up about ten percent of the
education funding that makes it down to each individual classroom
in our public education system. A lot of that is
focused on low income and special needs students. But President
Trump and Secretary McMahon had made it very clear that
(02:24):
that funding.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Is going to continue.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So then what does it mean to dismantle the Department
of Education if the funding is going to continue to flow.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Well, some of that funding was being.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Passed down to the states to handle these responsibilities through
HHS before the Department of Education.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Even existed forty five years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So we're going back to the way it was. Doesn't
need to be a separate department. That money can still
flow to the states.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
But what is going away.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It's the multiple layers of bureaucracy that is required to
report back on the services that are being given to
the students. We've heard from teachers that they spend more
time filling out paperwork than actually performing services for students
with special needs. We want to take that away, eliminate
the bureaucracy, allow states and local districts to ensure that
(03:08):
these services are going to continue, but give them more
money and more flexibility in order to serve the students
that they know best.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So were they having to fill out those that information
to get that back to get grants and that kind
of thing. I mean, because it just seems like that's
something that should have always been on the local level.
Even if you get a grant, there should be someone
kind of interfacing on the ground to make sure that
that is actually what it went to is actually happening.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And that's why the federal department existed. Frankly, they were
passing out money and someone at the state level had
to receive that money and document how they passed it
down to the local level. Someone at the local district
had to be there as an employee getting paid to
document how it goes down to the classroom. The teacher
has to report back what services that has to report
back from the district and state. Think about the multiple
(03:58):
layers of bureaucrafts that are acquired just for money to
go from the federal government down to the classrooms. What's
astonishing is that the teachers' unions, who control most of
these individuals between the federal government and the classrooms, are
the ones saying that they're no longer going to provide
these services, even though they're going to be getting the money.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To do so.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So I think that's been kind of the confusion when
you've heard people talk about this, is that they feel
like this has been there forever. You know, for most
of us, we've always known that there was a federal
Department of ED from the time we were little kids
to now, this has been there, and it seems like, gosh,
this is a massive amount of people. How many people
work at the Department of Ed four thousand?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well before two weeks ago it was about forty four hundred.
But as you probably know, just a week after Lenna
McMahon was confirmed, they did a reduction in force which
cut that number in half. And this was excess waste
and bloat. Frankly, one of the examples that they gave
us was that there were six different strategic communications departments
in the departm of Education. Obviously, that's not helping students
(05:02):
get educated. That's messaging to whomever, right, And the average
salary at the department was one hundred and forty thousand dollars.
So now, after the reduction in force, and after some
of the employees a few hundred took the buyouts that
were offered we're down to about thirteen hundred employees in
the department.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Remaining.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Some of those maybe shifted off to other departments that
are taking on some of the responsibilities Office of Civil Rights,
we're talking about going to Treasure, to Justice, the student
loan portfolio, maybe going to SBA, as the President announced
last week. So some of those employees will continue to
do those functions in a different department. But d OI
was already the smallest department in the federal government, so
(05:45):
it does not need to remain a department unto itself,
just so that some of the functions can continue.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I mean, it's interesting because I've heard so many people say,
how can you support getting rid of these people and
just cutting them? And in these conversations, you know, I
think a lot of us who are in the private
sector have said, you know, it's unfortunate, but when you
restructure a business, people lose their jobs and they have
to find other jobs. And though I don't ever wish
that upon someone, there are other jobs out there. However,
(06:14):
you saying that the average salary was one hundred and
forty thousand kind of blows my mind a little bit.
I think that's more than the governor of Michigan makes
in a year, you know, so I'm a little bit
stunned by that. And I can see now why there
is so much concern because your lifestyle is going to
really change. I mean, that's there aren't that many jobs
out there that you come into from a government position
(06:38):
and you would go into at forty one hundred and
forty thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's unfortunate, you know. You and I have the same
compassion for these individuals. Many of them are there because
they love education. Maybe they have come from a teaching
position and worked their way up. And it's not about that.
Our nation is in crisis in more ways than one.
Like we're in a debt crisis. We've got to get
our spending on control at the federal level. Our children
are inheriting this massive debt and bureaucracy. So that's one thing,
(07:06):
But our nation is also in an academic performance crisis
where we're turning out only one in three students that
are reading proficiently.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
How are these people.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Going to run our businesses, run our cities and our
counties and our states and carry forward the responsibilities of
a republic. So we have to fix this problem. We
cannot continue at the status quo, and I fully support
all of the actions that Trump has taken and immediate actions,
thank goodness, to get this really bureaucracy under control and
push the accountability as well down to the states to
(07:39):
just do better with their performance.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Well, and how do you? I mean, I guess there's
some of that is a concern of how do you
keep the states accountable if you have no federal Department
of ED and we're coming off of COVID. I think
Secretary McMahon is walking in at a time when everybody
has been very lax a day's ago about holding anyone accountable.
I mean, in the state of Michigan, we're now the
forty first state in the nation for education. It's really
(08:03):
gone down. Hell, I mean this has gone down I
think ten points since Gretchen Whitmer took office. And there
doesn't seem to be a lot of push. It's kind
of one of those uncomfortable conversations, to be honest with you,
because if you sit down and you say, man, the
schools in the state are terrible. Parents are like, what
do you know, what do you want us to do?
This is our schools? So you're insulting me, You're saying
(08:23):
something that is very offensive to me. And I think
even with the options, even with the school choice options,
a lot of people end up in public schools, so
and we should want our public schools to thrive. So
what is the answer to getting those schools back on
tracks so kids are reading.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I think a lot of it does have to do
with transparency, and that is one aspect of the federal
Department that will continue, perhaps in a different area like
the census, to expose how our schools are performing in
the different states, and even maybe in a more granular
way so parents and voters can hold their elected officials accountable.
But ultimately it is the responsibility of the states and
(09:03):
then the voters of those states to hold elected officials
accountable if their students are not performing.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
And right now you have a bit of finger pointing.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Because there are so many federal mandates, it's easy for
a state to say, well, you know, the federal government
is involved and we've got to do this, this and that.
We don't want to have them allow that excuse any longer.
So with the states completely responsible for education, that's where
the voters can look at the performance and say, listen,
Governor Whitmer, you are doing a terrible job and these
(09:36):
students are not performing under your watch, and hold that
person accountable. And yeah, the Blue States are going to
have to come to a reckoning with their voters, just
like they have on many other issues. But unfortunately the
Red States are going to, I believe, with school choice,
competition and free market continue to outperform, and maybe that's
a source of competition amongst the states.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
All right, we're going to get back into all of
the details with Erica Donald's but first I want to
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two five. Now stay tuned. We'll be right back with
Erica after this. For those of the folks that are
in a state that doesn't have school choice, I mean
in Michigan, we have choice within the public education system,
(11:21):
but it doesn't extend to private schools or faith based schools.
For a state like Florida, explain your school choice program
and how that's changed the state of education over the years.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
We are so fortunate in Florida to be a school
choice state. We now have both public and private school choice.
About ten percent of our kids are in charter schools,
and those students are outperforming their demographic equivalent in the
public schools.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Not only that, but.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
There's also studies around the country showing that when there
is choice, even if it's just charter schools public school choice,
it does elevate the performance of the related public schools
in those areas. In Florida, we also have private school
choice in the form of education Scholarship accounts. Now fourteen
states have universal essays, but in Florida we have over
five hundred thousand students that are on an ESA where
(12:13):
they're getting nine thousand dollars per student to use on
tuition at a private school. But they can also customize
taking different courses, purchasing curriculum and materials and things like that.
So it is a completely different ballgame here in Florida
where we're starting to see the supply and the innovation
come about, and there's more and more options for families
(12:35):
here in Florida. I think people are going to start
moving down to states like Florida, Arizona, soon to be Texas,
Tennessee because they're going to get that extra money to
help their children get a better education.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Is the ESA program there public publicly funded or is
that privately funded?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It is publicly funded.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It used to be a tax credit scholarship, and hopefully
we'll have a federal tax credit scholarship here passing soon,
but we did change it over to where it is
funded with the same dollars that would otherwise go to
your public school are now going into an account that
is controlled by the parents.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So the complaint with that is then you could potentially
be closing public schools. How has that in I mean,
the numbers that I've seen, it doesn't show that public
schools do close. But how what have you seen in Florida?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
In public schools don't close regardless. I mean they could
be completely empty and they won't close. Even in Florida,
We've had a really hard time getting school boards to
come to the realization that you have to close these
schools or consolidate and give these kids another opportunity because
it is failing. Listen, I was on the school board.
I've been in these battles of this school is half empty.
(13:41):
What do we need to do to attract students? I
think it takes them hitting rock bottom. And I'm sorry,
but that's the way that the system works. When you fail,
you cannot be subsidized. You cannot be rewarded for failure.
With more money and more subsidization, we have to have
the same accountability for schools, public schools that we would
for private schools, that we would for charter schools and
(14:03):
any other business, or we're not going to see the
improvement that inevitably comes about when failure happens. Failure is
good in a free market society because it tells you
what doesn't work and forces you to redirect those resources
into something that will work.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's what we need.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
We need that, and polls show that people like this.
I mean, that's something that I think that We've had
a lot of pushback in the media, but the polling
of actual voters are saying, hey, we support candidates who
support school choice.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
More than ever, over seventy percent overall support for school choice,
including sixty seven percent of Democrats and higher number for
Independence and much higher well over seventy percent for Republicans.
So this is becoming one of those eighty twenty issues
that the Democrats just refuse to fold on because they
are loyal to the teachers' unions who are funding their campaign.
(14:56):
Ninety eight percent of donations political donations from teach unions
go to Democrats. So even those sixty seven percent of
their voters support school choice zero percent, virtually zero percent
of Democrat legislators and elected officials are supportive of school choice.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Well, I mean, this is a guaranteed income for them.
They if teachers' unions have public schools open, it's a
guaranteed income. And I think that's something that people don't understand,
that teachers are forced into the union in most states,
and then if they're in the union, they're obviously paying dues.
Those dues are getting paid out of their paycheck, which
(15:34):
is taxpayer funded, and therefore your taxpayer dollars are often
funding Democrats to get elected one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And thankfully, you know stays like Florida.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I actually advocated for paycheck protection for ten years before
it finally got passed under Governor DeSantis. So prop to
him and the legislature for finally getting it done. And
that means that our school districts no longer subsidize the
collection of union dues on behalf of our teachers' unions.
They cannot be automatically taken out of the paychecks any longer.
(16:07):
That combined with laws that allow for decertification when union
membership falls below a certain threshold. In Florida, believe it's
now fifty percent. It keeps the unions on their toes
and in some cases allows for another type of organization
to come in to be the collective bargaining unit for
those teachers that may not have the same political ties
as a traditional teachers union member of one of the
(16:29):
national organizations.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So we're seeing reforms.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Obviously, we've gotten some Supreme Court decisions that have gone
our way as well, not forcing people to be members
of the union any longer in the states around the country,
and so I think that will continue to evolve. But
that's also why school choice is so great for teachers,
because it gives them a non union option that will
allow great teachers to thrive and even perhaps get paid
more for their better performance for going into more difficult neighborhoods,
(16:56):
which you cannot do in the public schools.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Stick around. We've got more with Eric Donald's, but first
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off your first order. Now, stay tuned. We'll be right
back after this. Talked a lot about being in DC.
You said, now that Donald Trump has been elected, you've
been there quite a bit. Obviously, we know your husband
and Congressman Byron Donalds is in DC as much as
(18:25):
Congress is in sessions, so now you're probably actually seeing
a little bit more of him. But you guys recently
made an announcement that you'd like to spend a little
bit more time in Florida, So tell us a little
bit about that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, we're very fortunate that Donald Trump came out and
gave him the run Byron run tweet with a full
endorsement of Byron for governor of Florida. So just a
few days later, about a month ago now, my husband
announced that he would be running for governor. We've been
in Florida since we were in college. We met at
Florida State University, which is in Tallahassee, or state capital,
started dating, got married, built a life, built a family.
(18:59):
We spent twenty years in financial services before ever getting
involved in politics. It was not in our plans at all,
but we have been serving the community in different ways
and just had been encouraged to get more involved in
public service.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So it's kind of been a progression where, you know,
more and more.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
People have trusted us and especially my husband, with decisions
on behalf of our community, from state House to Congress,
and now you know, we hope that we can get
the endorsement of the majority of Floridians to go to
Tallahassee and really make a difference in a state that's
been so good to us and is in such a
great position to really thrive in the coming years. And
(19:36):
DeSantis is turned out, so he's not running again, So
we just are really looking forward to it. It's been
an awesome first month of the campaign, so much the port.
We've got to kick off this weekend a rally in
our hometown here in southwest Florida. So it's it's exciting,
and I just feel honored that so many people trust him,
trust us with such a big responsibility.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There have been some other name that have been thrown around.
I mean, Matt Gates had been thrown around. I think
he said he's not going to run. But you talked
about Ron DeSantis being term limited. Casey DeSantis is not,
so they there has been some talk about the first
lady run of Florida running for governor. What do you think?
What are you hearing behind the scenes on that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know that has come up a few times. You
know she's teased to run. I don't know what she's
going to do. But I know my husband has an
incredible track record, you know, both voting in the state
House and in Congress. He's got the most conservative track
record from all of the groups that you know track
these things when it comes to votes. But also he
spent twenty years in financial services, in banking and insurance,
(20:40):
and those are the things that really brings something to
the table for Florida. We have an insurance crisis and
property taxes. He totally understands those issues, and we want
to be the financial and business capital.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Of the world. We're already well on our way there.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
So I just think that his background really aligns well
with where we're positioned as a state right now. And
the fact that he does have such a conservative track
record really speaks to Floridians.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I mean, Florida is a unique state because when you're
looking at states like Florida or California, you have a
propensity for natural disasters there. You obviously have a propensity
for hurricanes, and I assume that's what you're talking about
when it comes to insurance. Does he believe that his
background in insurance would help him in crisis situations like that?
(21:26):
Because I think anybody who is looking at who can
lead the state. In your states specifically, that would be
a great concern is that we have a natural disaster
almost every year and that puts you directly into crisis
mode every fall.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Sure, that's one aspect of it. Our insurance market is
really in crisis right now. We've had a lot of
carriers lead the state because of some of the natural disasters.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You know, there's legislation that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Could be improved in order to better the insurance markets here,
both property insurance and car insurance.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So that's a big concern. So just the mechanisms of that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
He did serve as a chair of that committee in
the state House when he was there, but also in
Southwest Florida. Unfortunately, we've had a lot of direct hits
while he has been a representative either at the state
or congressional level, so he has been on the ground
in Southwest Florida. I remember during IRMA there were three
weeks that I didn't see him because he was out
there on the ground helping our community when we first
(22:24):
got hit in twenty seventeen. We got hit with ian
a couple of years ago, and of course he was
in Congress at the time, so facilitating a lot of
those disaster recovery efforts, So he's got that direct experience,
not just in the markets and preparing for those things,
but actually being on the ground helping our community directly
when they hit.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Well. I mean, it sounds like you have a lot
ahead of you with these are two big things. You've
got education and you've got a big campaign coming up.
What does Byron what is the for him for the congressman?
What is the biggest issue that he thinks Florida's facing me.
We talked about insurance, but there must be something that
he is just just driving him to get out there
(23:06):
and say, I want to do this one to serve
for the people right directly in my state on the
highest level that he can.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It really does center around individual liberty and freedom.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I think a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
We started off in politics in the Tea Party movement,
and it was all centered around small governments and the
government not getting in the way, picking winners and losers,
doing bailouts. And that's what got us involved in politics
in the first place.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And my husband went back.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And read things like Frederick Bastiat The Law. I've got
John Locke here behind me and my bookshelf, and so
it really comes down to political philosophy that gives people
the best opportunities to succeed in life because.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Government is not tying them up.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
In bureaucracy and regulations and things like that. So you know,
that's kind of the overall picture is having people who
understand what the right political philosophy is in our country
of federalism, individual liberty and choices, property rights, and not
get involved so much in the nuances because there are
going to be new issues that come up that we
(24:08):
can't even think to talk about if he were to
become governor over the next eight years. So you need
someone who has the right principles and the route right
foundation that's going to make the right decision when those
new issues come up that we can't even think to
discuss at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So before I let you go, tell me what do
we expect to see out of you in this new
role at the America First Policy Institute, And what do
we expect to see on the national scale when it
comes to education before you guys dive into this major campaign.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Well, I'm going to continue to work with like I said,
the White House and Lenna McMahon and her team and
Congress to dismantle the Department, answer the executive orders regarding
school choice for the President, and hopefully get the Education
Choice for Children Act through reconciliation, which will be our
first federal tax credit for school choice, and that will
help a lot of blue states where people want school
(24:59):
choice and just won't have access to it through their
state legislatures.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
It's a completely it's.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All tax, it's not on the doe. But we're hoping
to get that passed. But then most importantly, we're supporting
states in their efforts to expand or an act school choice.
We're working with Texas right now to get that across
the finish line.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My first thing that I did in this position was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
To write a letter and help Tennessee get their universal
school choice passed, and then helping to improve those policies
across the board, because there's a lot of experimentation going
on in school choice and in essays, and we want
to make sure everyone gets the very best practices in
place so the most families can take advantage of these
and that we bring about innovation, quality and access for
(25:40):
everyone in a free market environment. So that's what you're
going to expect to see. If you don't already follow
me on Twitter at Erica Donald's please do. And that's
where I try to post everything that's going on, both
federally and statewide so people can stay up to date.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Amazing well, I expect to see great things, and we
are so glad that you came on to talk to
us this so congratulations on your new position, and congratulations
on making the decision as a family to go out
and run for governor. That's a big one, yes, don't
you know it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I
really appreciate it. Hopefully we'll get to.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Talk again soon, absolutely, and thank you all for joining
us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others,
go to Tutordison podcast dot com. You can subscribe right there,
or head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time
on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a bless day.
Host
Tudor Dixon
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