Giovanni Cabrera

Tune in for a glimpse through the lens of an undefeated professional fighter before his largest fight. Be sure to stick around for the second half of this episode to hear what loss feels like for the first time in Gio’s professional career.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Beyond Imaginable.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
This episode features a professional boxer ranked number eight in
the world, Giovanni Cabrera. Tune in for a glimpse through
the lands of an undefeated fighter for his largest professional fight,
and stick around for the second half of this episode
to hear what loss feels like for the first time.

(00:25):
We explore questions like what are the benefits of losing?
What's the purpose of ego? Why should we keep fighting?
What happens when we spread ourselves to thin. I'm your host,
Jimmy Brown. You're listening to the Unimaginable.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
My name is Gioanni Cabrera, now known as El Cabron.
I'm twenty one to zero, ranked number eight in the
world by the IBF. I was born in Seattle, Washington.
My father's name is Luiska. My mother's name is Angela Careta.
I was born in Seattle, and as soon as I

(01:06):
was born, I moved to Mexico. My father kind of
bounced around from jobs all the time, So from age
one to ten, we would move back from Seattle to Mexico,
Seattle to Mexico, Seattle to Mexico. So, you know, just
that upbringing in itself, you know, growing up in Leon
Juen Ajuato. That's where my father was born. Leon when Ajuato.
They always call me weto or gringo, you know what

(01:29):
I mean. So there was always something to prove, there
was from the very beginning. You know. My brother was
actually crazier when we were kids. You know, he would
take on two kids at one sometimes. But growing up
in that school, I went to a school it was
right across the street from my grandmother's house called Lapiohito,
which means the fleet because it was like kind of

(01:49):
a ghetto, dirty school or whatever. But my dad had
gone to that same elementary school in middle school when
he was a kid, and back then it was one
of the most prestigious schools in Leon. When I went there,
it was one of the most ghetto schools in there.
So it was like the Hunger Games man. Like we
would literally go out into the hallway and fight the
third graders and like nobody could do shit about it.

(02:10):
Like the teachers would try to get us to calm down.
We would turn on the teacher and we'd make the
teacher cry, you know that kind of thing. So like
we grew up like you know, with that street can
mentality I would stay out all day in the street
and come home, and you know, there's always the older
kids there. And for me, again, me and my brother
were the gringos. We were the American so like you know,
we were was like, come on, man, let show us

(02:31):
how Mexican you are, you know. So that turned into
fights too. So I always had that mentality growing up.
Right around nine or ten, my parents got divorced in Seattle,
you know. So then my mom kind of did the
old kind of tricks, said hey, we're going on vacation.
She packed up all of our stuff, and instead of
going on vacation, she we went to Chicago and we

(02:54):
went on the South Side, Canaryville, you know. And that
was a fucking culture shock, man, because like from going
to Mexico, like all my family had grown up in
that neighborhood. Now it's kind of, you know, kind of
a dangerous neighborhood. Mexico is getting a little bit worse,
but we were still kind of how do you say,
taking care of Everybody knew my father, everybody knew my grandfather.

(03:16):
My grandfather was a shoemaker, you know, and my father
was one of the few guys from from that neighborhood
to go to the United States. So we were well
respected and we fought our way in that neighborhood to
be respected so Mexico. You know, everyone still loved us
in that neighborhood because we had a history of our
family there. In Seattle, it was very progressive, leftist thinking

(03:38):
over there, you know, very kind of forward with race.
And I go to the South Side of Chicago. I
didn't realize that I wasn't Mexican, and I didn't realize
that I wasn't, you know, white either. I'm Mexican and Italian,
you know, so they're like, yo, the Mexicans treated me
like a white boy. The white boys treated me like
a Mexican's and like, funny enough, the guys who me

(03:59):
and my brother got al lot with all my black
friends on the South Side. You know, we joined a
football team and we were kind of growing up there.
But yeah, man, it was just moving around. I was
always a new kid in school for me. Relationships were fleeting,
so I kind of stopped giving a shit about trying
to fit in. You know. That was really the change

(04:19):
in my mentality which led me to become a fighter,
because you know, as for my brother knew how to
play the game, and he was a little bit smarter.
He didn't want to fucking stir anybody up. I was like, yo,
fuck these dudes, Like, I'm not going to just go
along with whatever they're saying just because they're saying. Now,
this didn't really work out in my favorite because I
was a short kid. I was like maybe like ninety
pounds in like four foot six or four foot seven,

(04:39):
you know, but I definitely always had them in ten.
It is like, dude, no, I'm not just gonna fucking
sit here and agree with you just because what because
I want to fit in. I'm I probably won't see
you next year. I just started to just just stick
up for myself in that way. But and then, and
while I was in Chicago on the South Side, these
kids were fuck with me every day, you know, because

(05:00):
I you know, everybody and that's hurt especially in these neighborhoods,
and like you know, with lower incomes, you know, everybody's
hurting me. You know that everybody grows up with trauma
and people want to inflick their pain on you. You know,
So when you see someone like me who was kind
of a more of a pure kid. Even though that
I kind of was always fighting and stuff, I still
had very good intentions. And these kids were damaged, you know,
they were all in gangs. So I would go to

(05:23):
the bathroom sometimes there'd be two or three kids and
I would have to fucking fight them, Like this is
no big deal. The school was a fucking nightmare on
the South Side. I went to this school called Holden
and eventually, man, I got so sick and tired of
these kids fucking with me. I finally joined them. And
you know, they bullied me into joining a gang. Man
I don't want to name which one. Hopefully it doesn't still.

(05:45):
Oh those guys might be dead probably, you know, but yeah,
they bullied me. One day after school, I was in
behind the school and like four kids jumped me in
and like I had to fight them for like three minutes,
one round versus like four kids, you know, just and
at the end of it, I was just against the
wall and boom, boom boom getting hit every work I'm

(06:05):
trying to block, I'm trying to swing, but no, they
kicked my ass pretty good. Maybe like a couple days later,
I was at a family barbecue because my mom had
a boyfriend at the time. So we went to their
like family barbecue or whatever, and I take off my
shirt and I'm just fucking black everywhere with bruises. They're like,
what happened? You know what happened? I'm like, basketball, Yeah,
fucking basketball. You know, this kid's play rouck. Finally, my

(06:29):
dad comes back in the picture, and he convinced we
hadn't seen my family for a long time in Mexico,
so he says, Okay, we're gonna go visit our family
in Mexico. We go to visit our family in Mexico
and I get a call from my mom and they're
all worried and they're like, well, what's going on? What's
going on? There was this neighbor kid that I used
to hang out with sometimes, Stevens, white ginger kid, kind

(06:49):
of an asshole. Nobody really liked this guy, and I
would hang out with him sometimes. And apparently this kid
was at the park where all the you know, gang
members hung out, and they wanted to shoot him, and
they wanted to shoot me because apparently we were making
fun of a mentally challenged girl whose uncle was like
one of the leaders of the gang. Man. I was

(07:11):
so scared. I thought someone was trying to kill me
in sixth grade, you know what I mean. You know
what kind of terror that was because they I didn't
know that they knew, or maybe they didn't know, but
I was in a gang, you know, So I'm like,
this is for sure a death sentence. I don't know
what it was, but like that kind of fear when
you're little was a nightmare. I was praying so hard, man,

(07:31):
I was like, please, guy, just let me escape this.
I'll never do anything bad again. Blah blah blah. So
finally we come back and my dad says he's in
moving to Chicago. So that summer, well, I still had
like a month and a half left the summer. I'm
hiding in my house. I did not see even a
brink a minute of daylight. And finally my dad comes in.

(07:52):
I think my father for this, but I really think
he saved my life, man, because it was going bad.
You know, I was not going to do well because
even with these kids, like I was still trying to
be the best at whatever, you know, even if I
was in I was gonna be the best of them too.
So I started doing bad shit with them, you know,
cars would drive by, we would throw bricks at the boom.
You know, I started smoking weed in sixth grade. You know,

(08:15):
smoking weed in sixth grade, you know, fox with your head,
you don't know, it's like, whoa, what is this? So yeah, man,
that's really how it started. Now, when my father moved back,
I moved to the West suburbs, like Junior High, right,
and now I'm all ghetto. I'm ghetto now. I'm ghetto now.

(08:36):
And these kids are looking at me. I'm like four
foot seven, you know, kind of have like this Beatles haircut,
going on weird awkward stage. But I'm dressing like an
inner city kid. They're like, this guy's a poser. Little
they know, they don't know what the fuck I just
went through, you know, and and yeah, so they so
I wasn't really I was always kind of like I
felt like I was always kind of an outcast, you know,

(08:58):
never really accept it because of these different backgrounds. I mean,
no one really understood where I came from, and you
know why I was the way that I was. So
I just started to reject the culture. The people who
stood out to me were always the people in the counterculture,
and you know, the different rebels of society, the authors.
You know. So when I started playing football, I had

(09:20):
been playing American football, and for being a small guy
American football, I played with everybody. But then I stopped growing,
and these guys just got huge, you know, and I
got sick and tired of this shit. So I was like,
you know what, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of studying.
I was a horrible student just because I just didn't try.
It didn't interest me. I was like, none of this
is serving me. Like I'm I see what's going on here.

(09:41):
I'm following everyone's path and it's not like fucking making
me any happier. I'm not going to just sit here
and do what everyone else does. And I thought like, okay,
what better way my complete rejection of culture, my escape
from this kind of so called like game or the
matrix or whatever you want to call it. I take
it into my hands. Literally. I was at a party

(10:02):
in two thousand and nine, a friends party. One of
the guys on the wrestling team, my brother was a
football player and the wrestler, and we were at this
house and it was two thousand and nine, I think,
and many Pakia was fighting Miguel Coto. Great fight, great, great,
great fight. And I started to learn about many Pakia
and like the build up to the fight, and they're like, wow,
this this guy was small like me. You know, he

(10:25):
had conquered like three or five or six weight classes.
At the time I was and everyone's talking about this guy,
all eyes on Manipacia in their respect. I could feel
it off everybody, and I was like, man, if he
can do it, I can do it. I want to
be like him. It was close to like Christmas time,
and I bought two pairs of gloves for me and

(10:46):
my brother at that time. Well funny enough, it got
me into boxing. Was me that manupacer fight. But the
UFC started beingcoming really popular, so guys like Rampage, you know,
Mashida Anderson Silva, all those guys, big personalities in the
uf See, it was hot, you know. So we started
putting the gloves on with our friends and these guys.

(11:08):
Some of these guys were pussies. My friend, you know,
I've been through enough to know I could take a hit.
So like we would put on the gloves with these
big football players, these big wrestlers, man, and they get
hit one two, tens stop. If I got hit once
or twice, I would hit two or three, four times
more back. And I knew that I had something different,
you know. I knew that sometimes I would beat these guys.

(11:31):
These guys had beat me by like fifty eighty pounds sometimes,
you know, and I would surprise the shit out of them.
And I had more fire than them. And I knew it.
Whatever they had physically, they didn't have spiritually inside of them,
you know. Yeah, And then that sent me down a
rabbit hole. It started. I started to form a stronger identity,
you know. And I started to look at all the

(11:52):
past boxers, the great pass boxer Muhammad Ali, whoa once
I heard of Muhammad Ali and the and and there
was so much magic surrounding his history, and like, you know,
just his name and the aura and the energy that
all that brings. It was just something like from a movie.
I don't know who it was. I think it was
like LEANICX Lewis or Bernard Hopkins or one of those

(12:13):
guys said that boxing is magic, you know, it gives
power to the week. And I don't know, man, but
it truly is it truly is magic. So I started
to form this identity. I was like, I was attracted
to the greatness of it, you know, to the big stage,
to the history, and I just became a student in

(12:34):
the game. I started boxing at this one gym in
the suburbs and I trained really hard. I got on
the boxing team within like a week and a half,
and then I sparred the coach's son and I felt
I beat him. You know, I was horrible, very sloppy,
but I knew that I had that fire. Still I
beat him, and then all everyone started resenting me at

(12:56):
that gym. I was like, what the hell. I was like,
I thought they would be proud, you know, Wow, this
kid's got talent, but really they were just trying to
be like, oh, now this kid thinks he's like good
or something. And that really broke my heart, you know,
because I was like, here's finally something that I'm doing well,
and these guys are kind of trying to shun me down.
I was like, what the fuck do these guys know?

(13:17):
In the suburbs, I was like, if I'm gonna learn boxing,
I need to go back to the hood. So I
went to this gym on the southwest Side and Summit, Illinois,
where all the factories are and smells kind of bad
over there. You know. I started training there. You know,
there was no glitz or glam. It was at a
park in the garage there. We had one heavy bag,

(13:37):
one speedbag, a bunch of shitty jump ropes, a bunch
of stinky ass gloves, and I loved it. I trained
my ass off for a few months. Finally I had
my first amateur fight in Boom ten second knockout man
ten second knockout. Now, if anybody could find there's only
one faster amateur knockout in the history of boxing, and

(13:58):
that's Mike Tyson's eight sec knockout. I have mine on video,
and if anybody could find one that's faster, please show me.
So once I knocked that kid down, I just hit
him first ten seconds, came up, jab straight left hand
to the chimney, goes down. I could not believe it
that I was capable of doing something like that. So

(14:23):
that started my boxing career. I won like thirty straight fights.
I think I lost one in the Golden Gloves and
the next year I came back and I became Golden
Gloves Champion of Chicago, And that was like I had
finished high school. By that I had just finished high
school and I become Golden Gloves Champion of Chicago, and

(14:44):
I don't know, I feel like life was moving. Everything
was moving, and people were making decisions of what, you know,
schools they wanted to go to, and this and that,
and I just knew that I didn't think that I
could afford college or something like that. But it seems
like I was just being passive in a way that
was sneaky, because I knew there was one thing that

(15:05):
I wanted to do, and it was box, you know.
So when the time came, I moved to Los Angeles
when I was nineteen, after I won the Golden Gloves,
I moved to LA and I trained at wild Card
for one year. I trained at Wildcard for one year,
and I thought I was gonna come to LA and
I was gonna ha ha wow everybody, and I was

(15:27):
gonna be I was gonna conquer the world, you know.
And I really found out how hard it was to
make it on your own in a new city at nineteen,
you know, fighting at the best gym in the world
in the Wolf Pit as the amateurs, I did really good,
but I was sparing pros now and I was getting
my ass kings all right. After one year, I was like, Fuck,
I'm not just gonna stay here and keep doing this.

(15:49):
This is like a waste of time. I need more experience,
Like these guys are just gonna beat on me. So
I decided to go instead of going back home. I
felt like I couldn't go back home yet. I didn't
want to fail, you know. I was like, no, I'm
not ready to go home yet. So instead I went
to Mexico. I went to Leona, where my father was from,
and I knew there was a gym right by there

(16:09):
that I had visited before, the gym Rocky Gym, And
Monica Gonzalez is this woman who was the owner of
the gym. She had been boxing for a long time.
And her son was there too and he was a trainer.
So I went there and I started training there, and
I became champion of Leon, I became state champion of Wanato,

(16:29):
I became a regional champion, and I became national bronze
medalist in the National Olympic tournament. All during that time,
there was one student to name Udiel DeJesus, who was
a great artistic photographer and cinematographer and it is now
a professor teaching film. He was making a short documentary

(16:50):
about Mexican culture and about boxing and about cock fighting,
you know, the chicken and what it said about Mexican
culture and about Machiese and all that stuff. It won
the wan Ahuata International Film Festival and it also was
shown at cons So, Man, all of that was happening

(17:10):
at the same time I was becoming champion. I was
becoming regional champion, national champion, and we had cameras following us,
and it just felt like this is real. This is
truly real, you know. And I've always before I moved
to la and I moved to Mexico when I was
studying in Chicago. I went one year in community college
in Chicago when I was studying film. So I said, man,

(17:32):
there's no reason why I can't do everything that I want.
You know, somehow this is finding me, and this is
giving me all the signs and just propelling me and
giving me the energy to move forward. I was disappointed
when I didn't win in the semi final in the Nationals.
I ended up winning bronze, and man, I just had
to make a decision. I was like, I can't turn
pron Mexico. I cannot fight for pesos when I can

(17:55):
fight for dollars. I came back to Chicago and we
were asked around, asking around, and a guy that my
dad worked with, he said, Yo, I know a guy
who could turn him pro. I used to train at
this gym. It was on the north side by O'Hare,
northwest side, by all the Italians. By Melrose was an

(18:15):
area in Chicago. It was on it was on Mannheim
and Fullerton in Lighten, Lighten, and there was an Italian
guy named John Osida and this other guy named Sammy
de Tucsa, and that was like the very beginning of
my my my professional career.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Beyond beyond.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
So my first trainer of John Osita. He was a
lawyer who grew up, you know, on the northwest side
of Chicago with all the Italians. And the other guy,
Sammy de Tusa, also grew up in Melrose, the Italian neighborhood,
and he was well connected with the old Italians to Chicago.
And also he was an undercovered detective like taking down

(19:00):
prostitution rings in Seattle. And it was funny because it
all brought me back to Seattle because he was friends
with the promoter out there in Tacoma near Seattle and
Brian Halquist who had Brian Hawquis Promotions, and he had
fights at the Emerald Queen Casino, which so I signed
with them even though we were in Chicago. But it
all kind of came back to Seattle where I was born.

(19:22):
So I was fighting in Seattle a lot for my
early career, and you know, they didn't have them. I
did not know how little I was fighting for at
the time. I was so happy with whatever they were
giving me, like this is great. You know, I get
to come out. You know, it's kind of like near
my hometown. I got a big crowd from the very
first fight that I went out there. My second fight,
I fight I guy eight in two. I'm one and

(19:44):
oh I'm fighting guy eight and two. This guy's a
hometown favorite. Jerry McCleary half Mexican, half I Irish, has
like three hundred people there. You know. I come out
there and boom. I knew that this guy was short man.
I jabbed him, having left hands being awkward uppercuts. I
split his note in half and he was spraying blood everywhere,

(20:06):
and I thought I would go up to the promoter
after Brian Hawk was and he'd be happy, and he
didn't even look at me. He was so pissed. I
ruined his guy, his ticket seller, you know, you know
my trainer John. He said, oh, I have a murder case.
He's a lawyer. I'm a murder case in Alaska. This
guy went all rambo and these two guys and these

(20:28):
guys in this bar in Alaska tried to kill this
veteran and the guy went rambo and killed them. So
there was a big trial going on. He said, look,
I'm gonna be an Anchorage for a couple of months.
Come with me. We're gonna have that training camp. So
I go to Anchorage and we start training. I started
running five negative thirty five degree weather, Rocky style, amazing.
The pandemic happens. Boom. I'm like, fight canceled, everything's canceled. Meanwhile,

(20:53):
he is negotiating to have me signed with a promoter,
you know, and they're having all these conversations without me,
you know, and it's very classic of Italian style to
be like, let us be in charge of woo and
I'm I'm not stupid, you know, I want transparency in
all things, you know, just because that's the way that
I prefer to have business. But ever since the beginning

(21:17):
of time, they've told the bugs man, you just worry
about training, Just worry about training. I'm worried about my pockets.
I'm worried about my health, I'm worried about time invested.
I'm worried about what kind of business opportunities might happen.
Why the hell should I just be focused on boxing.
I did focus on boxing, and you know, I beat

(21:37):
more than a feed fighters than anybody, and it still
didn't matter. So I started to focus on the other things.
You know. They they had meetings without me in the
hometown or wherever the promoter was, you know, and said
that it had nothing to do with me. I was like,
come on, okay, you're what you're talking about the fucking
tea in China or what's what's going on here? So

(22:00):
I fired those guys. I had to fire them, you know,
I really it broke my heart to them because I
had spent I went eighty to no with those guys.
Pandemic starts careers over. Fired those guys. I'm still stuck
in the contract with the promoter that was their buddy
that had you know, now I'm stuck with this guy
who I had no relationship with. No, everything's fucking shut down.

(22:22):
I'm like, my career is over all. Right. I fly
back from Alaska and I'm sitting at home. I'm like, well,
what the fuck am I going to do? Now? I
go into dating app and I I'm not going to say,
I go on to dating app, I meet this girl,
and I just fall in love with this one girl, right,

(22:44):
And for three weeks we're hanging out in Chicago, you know,
during the pandemic, and she says, oh, I gotta go.
You know, this is the pandemic. She's from Norway, I
gotta go. I'm like, okay, don't go stay here, Let's
get married. So I got married.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Wow, you know, okay commiserations.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah. So it was crazy, you know, and like like
part of all this journey was to a boiling point.
And when it came to firing my trainings and my managers,
you know, it was like I knew that my career
wasn't going to the level that it should have. And
it really wasn't their fault, but it was just I
knew that I needed a different level, you know, need
a different level all the attention that I wasn't getting

(23:34):
from the boxing world, or just the validation which I
sought so hard to get because I thought I was
doing enough to prove it. You know, I started to
go out and I started partying. You know, I started partying,
and uh, you know, the guys my whole career, I
had been moving around and boxing, and I was always
in the gym, so I really didn't have any friends.

(23:56):
All of my guys, you know, had been moved away,
They're all in call. I was doing all these different
things and I'm just in the fucking gym, grinding it out,
fucking winning professional fights all the time. And the people
that that that that were my friends were guys who
stuck around in Chicago, and a lot of those guys,
you know, sold drugs, they did different things like that.

(24:16):
And I was getting the love that I wasn't getting
from the boxing world with these guys, you know. So
I started to get in trouble a little bit, and
uh that kind of led me down like a bad path. YEA,
how long did that last? The whole pandemic year. It
came to like this, the pandemic really really came to
the boiling point where I just fucking was digging myself

(24:38):
into a hole, man, and I knew that I had
to get out. I knew that I was going to
die in Chicago man. So at that time, you know, I,
me and my ex wife are like, you know, I'm
getting to the point where I'm like, yo, we need
to either grow or this is gonna stop here. I said,

(24:58):
are you coming? You're coming with me? So we had
to move out of our place. We had to move
out of our place. And I just got a job,
you know, at a car dealership, and I'm like, fuck, like,
this is what I'm gonna do. Now. I'm at a
car dealership and I get us an apartment and I
tell my story to the property manager John, and this

(25:19):
guy lights up when I tell him about my boxing store,
and he said, you know what, kid, I'm gonna hook
you up. I'm like, what are you talking about? And
he's like, my uncle knows Freddie Roach. I was like,
I was like no, what. I was like no, I
was like, get out of here. He's like, yeah, man,
I'm gonna hook you up. I'm gonna hook you up
with Freddie Roach. I'm like that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Man.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Some months go by and nothing happens. I call him again.
All he said, Hey, you ready, we're gonna go. Yeah,
nothing happens. Hey, yeah you're ready, We're gonna go. Nothing
happens again. I'm starting to get pissed off, you know.
I'm like, man, just don't fucking call me. Man please.
He calls me, says Geo, Me and my wife just
bought a ticket to Vegas bringing go see my uncle Chuck.
Are you coming? I pack up all my shit in

(25:59):
my car, all of my shit because I knew I
was not coming back.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, how'd you know?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Huh?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
How do you know you want to come back?

Speaker 1 (26:05):
I just I didn't give a shit, man. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
I put on there just to be like, I'm here, man,
I'm doing and yeah, yeah, I love that attitude.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
So so I packed up on my ship. I tell
him my you know, my exit at the time. I said,
you coming, She says yeah. We drive from Chicago to
Vegas and my Mustang. We get to Vegas and John
introduced us to his uncle Chuck Cameron, who had been
a huge sales guy in the eighties in Vegas. You know,
he big, big guy in Vegas. During the eighties, and
he had given Freddie Roach a job when Freddie Roach

(26:36):
was a busterer and he was fighting in the eighties
in Vegas, you know, and he taught him how to
be a salesman and all this stuff. And so we
get there. This guy's fucking awesome, Chuck Cameron. He's got
a horn, rim glass. He's like one of those guys
from Casino. He's funny as how, telling joke after joke,
fucking walking around like he owns every place. Man. Fucking
really cool, charismatic guy. We have dinner at the Aria

(26:59):
Hotel and finally at the end of the dinner, he's like,
you know what, I like this kid. You know, I'm
gonna call Freddy. So he picked up the phone and
he calls Freddy. He said, hey, Freddie, Yeah, it's me.
It's Chuck. He's like, you know that kid that I
was telling you about. You know, I'm gonna send him
to you tomorrow. He's coming tomorrow, so receive him. Well. Yeah,
he hangs up the phone. He shakes my hand and

(27:19):
he leaves, and I'm putting I'm like, please, man, I
need this, I need this. Got all my shit in
my car, drive to l A. I get to wild
Card and there's a line of people outside and photographer's
not what's going on, and like I see a car
pull out and I was like, oh shit, I think
that was many pack yallow, so many pack y'all. Was like, oh,

(27:42):
that's awesome, you know. I walk in and I see
Freddy and John's there. John was Chuck's nephew and who
organized the whole thing. And we get there and I'm like,
oh my god, like's fucking Freddy. I'm ready for this.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
He comes up. He's like hey kid, I'm like, how
are you doing? Mister Rhoades. Is the thing for? Thank
you for taking this like meeting, you know. He's like, well,
it's like, how many fights you got. I was like,
I'm mainteen to no you ever went any national tournament.
So I was like, I got a bronze in Mexico.
He's like, he was like, well, we'll see if you're good,

(28:17):
you could stay. I was like, thank you, sir, that's
all I need. I'm starting, you know, but I had
been partying for like a year during the pandemic. I'm
out of shape, ship, but I'm whatever. I'm I had
been training at home.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Do you make your spar right away or just so?

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I'm training. Two days later, I'm in the gym and
after training, Freddy comes up to me. He says, Geo
many Pak wants to meet you. I was like, what,
many Pack is my hero man, that's why he started boxing.
Many Pack wants to meet you. Maybe if he likes you,
you could spar with him. Because I was south Pond

(28:52):
that was the same height as Earl Spence and he
was fighting Earl Spence and he's, you know, so five
minutes before he gets there, He's like, yo, Geo Package
just fired both of his sparing partners. He wants to
go four rounds with you right now. I was like,
what the fuck just happened? So I got I started
getting there is my knee started to shake. I looked

(29:12):
at him and I wasn't gonna say no till Freddy
bro I'm not gonna spark Manny Pacya. I said, fuck.
He said you want to do it? I said yes, sir,
I said all right, get ready. Holy shit, I'm fucking
starting to warm up. I'm like, damn, I don't know
what I'm gonna do. Man, Like shit, this is Manny
Pack yeah, the Fox Fox New Sports one cameras come in,

(29:36):
like his entourage of like twenty thirty Filipinos come in,
some some skinny, some fat, some smiling, some laughing at me, like,
look at this fucking kid's about to get knocked out. Yeah,
you know, the Black Eyed Peas are Apple the app
and so because they love Manny, there's Filipino. They're Filipino.

(29:56):
So they're they're a couple, Carl Towns, a couple of
big NBA players are there. It's fucking packed. His wife
and his kids are there. You know, camera's going off.
I'm like, what the fuck just happened. I'm warming up.
I'm warming up, and I see many warming up and
I'm copying everything that he's doing, you know, because I'm like, well,

(30:16):
I'm Sam and Pepe Riley is one of the trainers there.
He's always had my back from the very beginning. Always,
you know, was close to me. And you know he
doesn't know me at all, and he's just looking at
me like, I don't know what you're gonna do. Man.
He puts on my head here I'm in the ring.
He's like, uh, well, just be yourself, man, do the
best you can. Yeah, and that was one of the

(30:38):
few times I truly just pray to God. Man. I
was like, man, just let me be proud of my
efforts today, you know, just let me just just let
me give a good account of myself. And then Manny
Packett starts bouncing around into the corner opposite of me,
and I'm like, this is a fucking movie. Man, what's
going on? Like this is insane thing. The bell rings
and I could stay away. I'm staying away. I'm fighting, okay,

(31:02):
like I'm doing good. He assed me a couple of times.
Oh shit, I hate him a couple of times.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
I mean, I knows good.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
But yeah, well, no, I was able to stay away
because I'm very awkward and slick, you know. And I
did my best, and many pack y'all hired me to
be a sparing partner. Man. I had nowhere to stay either.
I had no where to stay. And I was like,
he said, hey, he wants to hire you to be
a spying partner. I'm like, fucking great. I was like, look,

(31:28):
I have nowhere to stay. He's like, okay, hold on.
He comes up. Man, He's waiting in the Mercedes outside
and he's like, tell man, He's like, Manny, I would
love to help you, but I got nowhere to stay.
He's like he looks at me for a second. He's
like he's like, it's okay. See that hotel right there,
You're going to stay there? Wow. I was like, oh shit.
I was like, thinks a lot Champ, thinks Salona Champ,
you know. And I got to stay for like two
months the hotel next to the gym, sparring Manu pac

(31:52):
I was paying me like a grand a week. It
was incredible.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
So that you're still it, you know, and your spar
with Moneipocio go on your You're staying at the hotel,
you get paid, and then.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
And then that's over, and then Manny leaves and everyone goes.
Now all the man is gone. I'm just I'm just gone.
I'm just normal. No one gives this ship like oh yeah,
like you thought that was gonna last forever, Ken, you know, sir.
Now I got to conquer the gym environment, you know,
because I got there's people that have been there for years.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Years. I get there two days in LA and I
was part of my Annie Pa. You know. I still
didn't have a manager, still wasn't signed with a promoter,
and it took a long time. It took like six
or seven months for me to get signed. Eventually, I
got with this guy, Steve Fader, who I'm no longer with.
He was managing me for a while. Really good guy,
you know, and he got me signed with Top Rank,

(32:51):
one of the best, you know, oldest promotional companies. Bob
Aaron started Top Ranking, the same guy who started promoting Ali.
And yeah, man, the first fight was insane. I didn't
make weight. Yeah, oh really, I was fucking really embarrassed
about that. It's like, it's my first fight with Freddy,

(33:11):
I'm on top ring and I didn't make weight. I
was like, god, damn it. But I was a lot old.
I was like two pounds over, that's a lot.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
And yeah, man, it was. But you know, everything happens
for a reason. Because the main event, or the cole
main events, that fight was canceled because one of the
guys didn't make weight. So I got bumped up to
the main event. My salary tripled. My what now, they
asked me. He's like my old manager, Stephen, He's say, hey,

(33:43):
do you want to take the fight? Like, you know,
Bruce is right here, Bruce Rambler's right here. He's making
me call you, like, we don't have to take it.
I'm just letting you know. They're making me call you,
and do you want to do it? Well, give me
a second. I look at the guy. I'm like, yeah,
I'll do it. I watched the guy for ten seconds
and I'm like, yeah, I'll do it, my boy. Let
me just ask Freddy. I told Freddy, I said, hey, Freddy,
I want to take this fight. I think I can

(34:04):
beat him. Freddy's like, yeah, you just gotta be real
careful with this guy. Had I continued watching the video.
This guy, uh he Ron. He Ron was a really
really good Mexican fighter, and had I finished watching the video.
He not he had just knocked out that guy in
that video, but I didn't finish watching it. It was

(34:25):
a US Olympian, Carlos Balderis. He had just knocked him
out in his last fight. And I was just like, yeah,
I didn't just watching the video. Man, I accept the
fight and I get in there and I teach that
guy a boxing lesson. Yeah, wow, trippled the money.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
That was incredible.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Fucking celebrateed me, Freddy. My parents are there. I didn't
see my parents since I moved out here. Man, I
gave my mom my dad, hug you this fucking awesome.
That's so good.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
I guess from a professional point of view, like where
you're out right now? Is that is it twenty one
or twenty three? Twenty one? And then like going forward,
like is what's what's coming up?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
What's coming up is on fighting Isaac Pittbull Cruise. He's
currently ranked number five. Isaac Pittbull Cruse became a star
in boxing because he gave Gravante Davis the undefeated. You know,
he was a lightweight champion. He's champion at one hundred
and forty pounds. He was one of may with his
protege is and one of the most popular guys in boxing.
They just sold the fifth highest pay review of all

(35:29):
time against that Ryan Garcia fight which he knocked out.
And this guy became a star because he gave Gravante
Davis the best fight and nobody wanted to fight him.
Nobody wanted to fight him. They offered him Ryan Garcia
and he actually turned it down. They offered him another guy,
Shoa cour and he turned him down. And I guess
he thought I was the easiest fight. Big fucking mistake today,

(35:51):
he accepted. But I've defeated more undefeated fighters than any
boxing prospect in history, not Shakur, not Ryan Garcia, not
any not anyone you can name as a better record
than me, and twenty fights except for Ali and Lomonchenko. Well,
and that's about it, manon.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
So last time we talked, we heard about your history,
you know, from strength to strength, fight to fight, when
to win. It felt like it was just moving forward
at a fast pace and you were building up to
the biggest fight of your life, which was in front
of twenty thousand people. Never mind the PPV which, however,
many million people watched that, and the fight Kim dying

(36:33):
to a split decision at the end. What I want
to hear about is how has that affected you?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
What?

Speaker 3 (36:40):
What is your position? I like, what's going on with
you after having that split decision and not being the
first time that you technically didn't have a knockout or
a win or whatever.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, yeah, man, I mean it was really challenging my
entire professional career having taken a loss. People, you know,
he was a good fighter, but you know, I think
this is another one of those cases where you know,
the B side fighter is the auto stacked against him
in terms of media, in terms of promotion because there's

(37:14):
a lot of money involved and the person who they
want to win, everything will be in their favor, and
that is always the case that knowing that I knew
that going in, and I knew that I had to
dominate him in order to win that fight. I box
very well. I was in shape. I did one of
the best way cuts that I ever did. I felt physically,

(37:37):
really strong mentally spiritually, I think I was running laps
around Piple in terms of speaking, in terms of my
impact that I had on boxing writers and the public there,
They're just like, who the hell is this guy? Like
I was relatively unknown, and it was just so funny
because I was like this this this this splinter in

(37:58):
the career of this guy. Pitbull Cruise. You know, he's
had a couple losses. His last fight was a very
close decision against Gravante Davis, one of the most feared guys.
But I would say that he himself is one of
the most feared guys. Nobody really wants to fight him.
He's his name is Pitbull. You know, he fights like
a like a like a wild dog. He throws haymakers

(38:18):
and he tries to kill you. I knew that I
could out box him, So I went in there fully
confident because I know, just you know, me, growing up,
everything that I've been through, my perspective in boxing, the
way that I fight, I knew that it was too
complicated for him. I go out there, first four rounds,
I start, you know, boxing beautiful. It's almost boring. You know,
the crowd is kind of quiet because he can't he's

(38:40):
he's swinging that air. I started to realize that I
don't know if this is the right strategy long term,
because I may be using my legs a little bit
too much. My corner also had been telling me, hey, listen,
you gotta go get you want to win this fight,
you gotta go get him, Go get them. Now. This
guy has been referred to as like the modern day

(39:02):
little Mike Tyson, you know. So I was never ever,
ever intimidated by him in any of the sense, like
you could see it from the press conferences. Everything that
I said was was fully confident, and I was just
my presence was there to win. You know. They're looking
at him like he was just another you know, egoistic,

(39:25):
you know, kind of bully type of a fighter who
thinks he's going to scare somebody. I'm like, come on, man,
that's hilarious. He's five foot four, man Like, that's like
my little nephew trying to intimidate me. So all these
things in consideration, I was fully confident going into the fight.
First four rounds boom. But even so, I still had
never been to such a big stage. This was probably

(39:49):
the biggest pay per view since since Manupacer and Floyd Mayweather.
As far as a welterweight fight. I mean, it was
two undefeated fighters, Terrence Budd Crawford versus Earl Spence Junior.
You know, for a well toweight unification. This was a giant,
giant fight, man, and I really felt they did everything
to diminish my presence in the media. You know, I

(40:10):
people were flocking to me in the build up with
the fight because they're like, who the hell is this kid? Well,
you know what, this kid's got something, man like, we
can feel it. You know, I even got you know,
pretty cool. You know, one of my favorite guys, walk
a flocka to come out and walk me out into
the ring. You know, which they didn't even really show
on TV that well. Why because of course they wanted
people to win, because they were trying to set up

(40:31):
the next Gravante fight. All these things. You know, accumulation
really would bother most people. But I'm stubborn as hell man.
I am a plan destroyer. And I went there and
I out boxes as were four rounds easy. But all
this in my mind, all these different scattered ideas and
directions in which my energy was going to mentally, you know,

(40:53):
still had a sliver of doubt. What if he is
a Mike Tyson, what if he does swat like that?
And uh I I knew that I had to hold
my ground, but there's there's a lot of holes and
in the way that I was fighting, not because I
wasn't not because it wasn't working. It was working, but
the second half of me balking so intelligently was to

(41:17):
hit the guy hard enough to start wearing him down. Now.
I don't know if I was smart, or if if
it was fear that was keeping me from trading with him,
but part of me, part of my stubborness. It's almost
like when you get into an argument where you're not
really making sense, but you continue to argue that way,

(41:37):
some kind of gene or some kind of mode in
your body tells you keep doing this. So I stood
there in the middle of the ring with my hands
down and traded with one of the hardest punchers because
I knew that if if I was to save my legs,
I couldn't keep moving the same way the entire fight.

(41:58):
And I took some of the most vicious hooks to
the jaw that he probably could have landed. And to
my surprise, the boxing God smiled upon me and gave
me something that you know, many had, many had suspected,
and I always knew, but I never really put it
to the full test. Is that I have the boxing

(42:21):
steel chin of old boxing lore, that of Jake Lamada,
that of Muhammad Ali. I can take any punch. But
you know, it took getting to that level, to that nervousness,
to that hesitation to get hit with something like that
in order for me to really understand how strong I
really am, what inner strength I really have. And you know,

(42:41):
I'm just there's nobody, I believe, there's nobody in the
lightweight division that could put me on the canvas. And
if Gavante, you know, couldn't put him down. I ended
up knocking him down in the eleventh round. I think
it was the which one was it. In one of
the middle rounds, he repeatedly tried a head bubby out
of frustration. I mean, he was swinging that air so

(43:02):
many things, you know, and I would come in and
I would I would clinch and you know, make him
so uncomfortable, very similar to like what Maywell that does
this a lot of people. Yeah, he tried head with me,
and in that round they took away a point from him,
and like after like the fifth time of him trying
to do that throughout the fight, and they scored that

(43:22):
round even which never happens. And I think everyone can
agree that I was never heard at any point throughout
the fight, so there's no there was. It really doesn't
make sense how they could have scored that even round.
That round was mine, and the eleventh round I also
knocked him down, which wasn't I wasn't counted and was

(43:42):
counted as a slip. Both of those things counted together,
I think I would have won the fight. So I
continued to fight really really hard, and I ended up
withthstanding all of that, realizing my inner strength and saying, hey,
I need to push this guy back. This guy can't
get me out of here. I'm going nowhere. This is
your fight, man, go take it. In the later rounds

(44:03):
eleven twelve, I won and I had him backing up,
and he was the one who wanted the fight to
be over. He was not having a good time in there,
and he was on his way out. If this was
a fit in the days of fifteen round fights, people
would have been in trouble. But you know that's not
the case, and there was. It was just it was
really tough to take that first loss. I felt that

(44:26):
I had done enough to edge it out, but I
knew that the boxing business wasn't going to allow me
to do it if it was such a close fight
and I did fail to dominate him. Leading up to
the fight, there were so many things that I was
trying to do, being pulled one way and another, you know,
because this is my shot. I got here with with

(44:47):
my gut, and I tried to do everything at once.
You know, I try to be my own businessman. Tried
to get sponsorships here, try to you know, network and
make different contacts for different things in entertainment that could
potentially they pushed me high here in the public eye
all these different things, you know, and a lot of
people told me, hey, like, you know, you really should

(45:08):
focus on the fight and you're not trying to do
all these things. But I'm a very stubborn guy, you know,
Like I'm a very stubborn guy. I'm a fighter. We
go with that gut. My gut has led me to
the success. So you know, I have to learn from myself.
I had to make the mistakes of you know, dispersing
energy a little bit too thin and all these things.
But I don't regret it. I do not regret it

(45:30):
because now I know what I'm capable of, and I
know where I should be focused my energy and.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Where is where is your energy getting focused on it?

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Folk? My energy is being focused purely on boxing technique,
you know. I know we talked about, you know, we
had talked before about like my interest in business in
boxing and all of mainly like contractual knowledge about boxing.
I understand boxing, but I know nothing about business. And
boxing is my business and making smart boxing decisions will

(46:03):
be beneficial in business to me. But I know nothing
about business, and that's such an important thing to know,
even as a businessman, right like, if you want to
ever become that person in you like a Sugar Ray
Robinson or like a Floyd maywhether you have to stand
at first that you know nothing about that, just like

(46:25):
just like we have to understand that we know nothing
about being in at the highest stage of boxing. But
that's what makes us fighters so brave is that even
though we don't know, we venture into the unknown to
push ourselves to see what we're truly made of. You know.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
So on the boxing side of it, how have you
taken that fight into consideration even in training? And you
know as a fighter, you know, like in your own
like mind, what has this done to you in order
for you to become a better boxer?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
With my style of fighting and with that, with take
on the machine of boxing, I realized that my style
is not going to win me close decisions, especially when
big money and big interest are on that side. Why
just because it's not decisive enough in the public's eye.
So if anything is questionable as far as the decision,
a split decision, you know, points knockdowns aren't countered or

(47:19):
round your scored you know wrongly like they're going to
lean towards the other guy. But if I knock these
guys out, then there's no fucking question. And that's always
been the obvious answer. But for me, boxing has always
been about, you know, being clever man, pissing the guy off.
I want to get a bull to come at me
as hard as he can, and I want to look

(47:41):
at him as I pop him in the face with
the jab as I turn him, and he said, what
the fuck? He can't hit me? And he swings and
he misses and he hits air. And I'm dancing and
I'm moving good and I'm feeling confident, I'm looking good,
you know, like that is what I love about boxing,
the craft of it, the artistry, you know, clever, having
rhythm and feeling good in the ring. It's something so beautiful.

(48:05):
It's a little bit more finesse than than the slugger.
You know, a good, good boxer will always beat a brawler.
You know. You know, a guy who is a savage
is not thinking, you know, a more technical boxer. And
that's why Ali. When Ali started to box away that
he did, you know, modeled after Sugar Ray Robinson. He
started to put a dance on everybody because nobody could

(48:27):
understand what he was doing because he was fighting with
with sticking and moving. You know, a lot of great
movers fought the same way, you know, even back in
the day, like Willie Pep, you know, Sugar Ray Robinson,
That's who he modeled his style after. But it was
it was completely it was completely taboo to lean back
or have your hands down, you know, so.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
To not get a split decision next.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Time, I must, I must. It was me finally coming
to terms with that and me learning to to to
start over, man, to start over in boxing as because
I need to develop the power, the leverage, the torque
and admitting this man, and looking at all the things

(49:13):
that I did wrong. Man, I feel like every time
that I truly, you know, stop making excuses and humble
myself and do some true self reflection and see what
I what I did wrong, think about everything I did right,
and learn to evolve as a fighter. And you really
only truly do that until you sit with yourself, look
at those mistakes and and and don't just brush it off.

(49:35):
Feel the regrets. You know, after the fight, I took
some time to grieve my beautiful Oh that was there, man,
you know, you know, I ate and ate for like
two three weeks, put on a bunch of fucking way
you know, you know, drink some beers, went out and
have fun when visited my family came back, but everything

(49:55):
tasted a little bit less sweet. Yeah, everything's a little
bit dryer. And I found myself trying to you know,
I don't know, feel feel, feel something good. But what
was missing here? And I think that, like you know,
the highest self is like the full capacity of who
you are, and it's existing within you. And I think

(50:17):
that that part of me was communicating with me, trying
to pull my attention to the root of the cause. Man,
because nothing is fucking fixing it, Nothing is making me
feel better. I was going, you know, nice restaurants, five
star restaurants, the heavy yard didn't taste good.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Man.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
It's your body, It's everything about you telling you, hey,
there's something wrong. First you must fix this. And the
first thing is admitting everything that you did, you know,
the shortcomings. You know, maybe one of those days I
got up a little bit later for training, Maybe I
didn't get enough sleep the way that I needed to.
All these things that we just kind of brush over

(50:54):
and make excuses that, oh, I had to do this,
I had to do that, and those are the reasons
why I did that. It's like, who fucking cares me?
You know that that was bullshit.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I've been thinking about
this concept recently, which is about not attributing any value
to the words good or bad, or win or loss,
because if you attribute value to something like it's a
win or it's a loss, you're basically reducing it done
to what is probably just a concept that everyone can understand.

(51:27):
But in the grand scheme of things, in the universal
screet this scheme of things, everything is just a stepping
stone to the next thing. So I don't know if
you can really say that something's good or bad, because
in ten years, you know, you might look back at
the thing you thought was good and say that that
was bad. And you might look back at this fight
in ten years and say, if I hadn't won that
fight on that split decision, I might not have got

(51:48):
to where I am not. And I find that interesting
because your attitude after this fight to me was that
you're a winner, you know, and like, so I'm like
he but and it took me a second to come
to terms with the idea of like, well, if somebody
lost a fight, but they still think that they're a winner,
what does that mean? And that's why I've been really

(52:10):
interested about talking to you after it, because I think
that that that the next level of understanding who we
really are as people and what we're really good at,
and like what our calling is, what our purposes, what
we believe in, Like the thing that we know about
ourselves is what we are best at. That there's never
going to be a loss there because every single loss

(52:30):
is just leading you to the next version of yourself,
you know. And so and as as that goes on,
I think there's been plenty of grit boxers in the
past that have had plenty of losses, you know, and
gone on to be like, you know, superstars. You know.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Well, take take Canelo Alvarez. I mean he you know,
fought a lot of older fighters, you fught a lot
of really nobody's in Mexico for a very long time
before he started fighting, you know, the premium level guys,
but kind of veterans. Maybe one of the two three losses,
but he had enough confidence and the way that he

(53:05):
was built up and brought up and also the skill
really to put all these guys on their ass. He
climbed to the top and at twenty three years old,
fought Floyd Mayweather, you know what I mean, and he
got the ass schooling of his lifetime. Man, he looked
like he was an amateur boxer. Man, you know what
I'm saying. He got. I lost a split decision against

(53:29):
one of the most feared punchers in boxing. So you
know that was his first loss. He got schooled in
his first loss. I took on the machine. I believe
I won. I didn't get the decision that I wanted,
but not only that, but I was able to knock
down and push back and make him want to leave
the ring before I did to one of the hardest

(53:50):
punchers in boxing. Not using the new style that I
wanted to talk about now that I have, I was
inspired now to develop the style because I know that
I have to win differently from now on.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
So this new style, that is this something that was
you would says, burst out of this the learning experience
from this fighter.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
And accumulated process of my whole understanding of boxing. And
that's why I'm one of the best boxers in the world.
And I believe that I can be the best in
the world. And see part of me believing, part of
me coming up and achieving new levels and believing more
and more in myself has made me realize that. Listen,

(54:32):
you have tried every variable outcome of all these different
body positions and never truly sticking to one, always improvising,
always standing at odd angles because you're trying to figure
out what you don't have. And what I didn't have
was the leverage because of my appreciation for the different
style of moving and have movement.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
And you know, hang on a second, you're saying the
way that you used to was, you know, it was
basically you trying to figure out what you don't.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Have exactly so exactly so me standing in all these
awkward positions is me trying to figure out how can
I leverage like from this leg or that lego with
this armor there was something so so where everyone is
fighting in his style, I'm fighting on a nothing you awkward. Yeah,

(55:23):
I don't know what the fuck I'm doing because I'm
trying to figure everything out. I for like mainly like
what I like at a certain time, like you know,
maybe like for a while, I like jabbing and hooking.
So I do that for a while, and I'm in
this position for a while, and I, you know, transition
in between different positions of that sort. But That'll be

(55:43):
my inspiration for a while, and I'll be like, you
know what, fuck, let me try it this way, and
I'll start doing it this way. I'll switch back and
forth between that, but still never sticking to one thing solidly.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
And that goes back to that goes back to you
talking about me and pushed and pulled on the way
off with business ideas and all the other stuff that
goes on the peripheral. You know, it's nearly bocked onto
the business exactly. You know, it's like it's like, well,
I can do all this stuff, but it's like, what's
the one thing I'll missing And let me go.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Let me go find the power only, let me go
find the power only.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
So like that's cool that so are you saying you
figured that out?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I figured it out, my friend. It happened in a moment.
You know, I had been a little bit down for
a little bit about the loss and about you know
what's next, and you know, you know what comes with that.
You know a lot of people respect a lot of
people in Mexico think I won the fight all on
the scorecards and ESPN Knockout, ESPN Mexico. They had me
winning the fight that Chicago. But yeah, man, they had

(56:43):
me winning the fight, man, And they had me winning
the fight all over Europe and like sky Sports and
all this shit all the time. Everyone thought I.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Would have had no idea.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
But because we don't really know how much media affects us.
You know, the accounts, Instagram accounts, their accounts, like the
way that they're using the cameras in the fight, like
it's fucking right night and day depending where you are,
and the commentators as well, you know, everything of that sort.
But but no, man, I really just you know, I

(57:10):
know that I have the strength. I know it. I mean,
he couldn't hit me. That means I'm stronger than him.
I backed him up. That means I'm stronger than him.
And I did it with a distance, a mid distance
technique of jabs and flicking punches and fast combos and
trying to move around. But when I decaid to finally
go forward with that style, you know it worked. I
was still stronger than him. So it was all mental.

(57:31):
The entire time. And this guy's not fucking Mike Tyson. Man,
we're all human, man, And guess what, I don't give
a fuck who you are, who you beat. If I
land a hook the right way, it's gonna knock you out.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
But like, what's the what's the new what's the new
thing that you've learned?

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Well, I don't even know if I really want to
give it away because.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Well, okay, but like talk about it artistic.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I guess what it means is like I use them
for for people don't understand my style. Let's talk but
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Yeah, I mean I don't want you to give away
the power. You know. What I'm saying is that is
like like, but like you've.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Learned, I've learned leverage. I've learned true leverage.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Have you learned the thing that you were missing?

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I learned the thing that I was missing, man, And.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
That's that's the thing, right.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
It's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful thing because now,
like I really truly feel I can decide to be
like Purple, throw everything that I have for three or
four rounds and just wear you down. Man, I'm going
to wear you down. I'm gonna hurt you. You're gonna
wish that you're not there. And right when your legs
get tired enough and you start to think, oh nolah

(58:37):
blah blah blah. I'm gonna fight from a mid distance
with speed, with my other style, the soyle that I've
developed so good. But by the time that your feet
are in quicksand you're gonna be too slow and I'm
going to torture you for the rest of the fight
until you decide to quit. I get you out of there.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Is this new style going to be a corumbo, the
old awkward sound something else. There's a whole new thing.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
It's gonna be. It's gonna be in spirits. When I'm
on the outside, I will I will use my jam,
I will use my awkward angles. But for the most part,
I'm going on the attack.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Man.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
You know, these guys have pissed me off, you know.
And this is another part about the ego of the boxes.
You know, you reach a certain level and you think
I'm this, I have nothing to prove. Well, guess what.
I am not champion of the world yet. And and
although I do believe I am a champion and herd,
champion of spirit and you can go to to toe
with anybody, all that jazz blah blah blah. I still
got to fucking prove myself, man.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I think that's what matters is the fact that you
believe that, the fact that you know that anyone brings
up and so like, because if you don't believe that,
your whole energy will not eminate that and but ultimately
it will end up not happening.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Yeah. Man, it's so funny that you that you see
that about like you know about it is because I
believe that. And like, let me just use this thought
experiment for a second. Let's say it fucking wasn't true
and I'm just making up some delusion. It doesn't matter
even if I believe that, that's the only thing that's
going to allow it for me to make it possible

(01:00:08):
to start training like that, because.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Belief is the vehicle to success.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
But if you think about like human evolution, like like
something about our psychology and something about our genes, and
like the intelligent human brain and the intelligent human body
and the intelligent unconscious is designed to reward us within
doorphins when when something is going to lead us to survival,
and what's funny about that. It's like I could choose

(01:00:33):
to die right now, I could use to quit right
now boxing and say I can't do it. But for
some reason, the physiology, the chemistry in my body, the brain,
the evolution of man is telling me. Fuck, this is
making me feel like shit. But the minute I start
to imagine what I'm talking about, yeah, the minute that

(01:00:53):
I start to say, no way, hold on, there's this way,
holy shit, do I get a well of energy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
But in order for you to get to that point,
you already had to think that way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Do you know what I mean? Then?

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
So, then if you're the kind of person that does
think that way, every kind of situation you're in, whether
it's a win or a loss, will get you to
the next level. Because what you're going to do is
use the thing that happened, whatever it was, to sharpen
your craft, to tighten your giarz, to like get that
new perspective that you haven't had before because you haven't

(01:01:25):
been in that position. And if you think that way,
and you look at life that way, and you go
at it life that way, you're only going to get
better and better and better.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
I have no other option, man, I can choose. You know,
I can choose to be miserable, Man, I really can't.
I felt miserable in some points. What was it? But
like I get fun. I got so fucking tired of it.
It's like that's when the helpless dreamer starts to imagine

(01:01:53):
bullshit that isn't real. Like me starting at sixteen, looking
the way that I look, being, you know, this small,
skinny kid with no power. Everyone was like, ha, there's
no fucking way. There is no way. You know that
I'm going to read with the highest pay per view
of all time fighting one of the most feared punders

(01:02:15):
of all time, knocking him down, you know, backing him
up at the end of the fight, and losing by
a point. I mean it sounds absurd and it is absurd,
but it fucking tickles my fancy. Man. Yeah, but for
some reason, like it gives me that well of energy.
It's so inexplicable, but like that is how we evolved.
Then it literally is that we are designed to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Yeah, just to be here is a gift. And then
to have something that you have dedicated yourself to, that
you believe in so strongly that it's just going to
be a journey. There's just going to be a life,
and that life can be very exciting because the peaks
on the troughs are where it's at in the in between,
that's where I think people really learn and figure things out.

(01:02:58):
And that's what I kind of that's kind of the
vibe that I from what you're saying. And that's and
it's been helpful for me because I I sometimes look
at things a little more black and white, you know,
where it's like, well, this didn't happen the way I
wanted to happen, So it didn't happen, you know, and
then instead of look looking at it the way that
I think you look at it, is like, but this

(01:03:19):
happened as part of my trajectory. Like that's that's inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
I truly feel that it keeps you exactly where you
need to be, Like, I mean, how the fuck is
it even possible that I got this well of energy
that that that gave me the strength to take punches
that would have knocked anybody out on the planet, you
know what I mean. I think about that all the time.

(01:03:44):
I think about Ali. It was his belief in God
man like it was believing himself. It was him just
just believe in that. Like you know, anybody else you
know couldn't fight with a broken job. But he says, Noah, Man,
he believes in so much. Man, think about like like
the modern studies of like neurology, and like like doctor

(01:04:04):
Joe Dispensa and like all the great inventors. It's like
you believing or imagining things that are unrealistic, like will
literally change your body chemically, you know, no matter how
many the more you think about it, the more it's
rehearsed mentally, the more that you feel that chemically in
your body. You it sounds it's ridiculous, but for me,

(01:04:31):
it's it came from desperation, man, it can it can.
It comes from like hey, man, like this is the
only thing that it's worth living for. Like you know,
we all have a purpose, man, and it's up to
everyone to find their purpose. This is just the beginning, man,

(01:04:51):
this is just the beginning. I'm excited, man. I feel
like I'm starting over in boxing, you know, and like
everything that happened, man, is all for the deconstruction of
my fucking ego. Man. And like the more that you
purify that your intention, the more that it's not about
anything else except for the highest ideal of the craft,

(01:05:15):
you know, Like, it's about that, man, It's about loving
it and loving the feeling of doing something great. Man.
The thing about boxing that I loved first and foremost
was the illusion or the dream or the fantasy that
I could be great. That's what brought me to boxing.

(01:05:37):
I loved the way that Ali looked. I loved the
way that Manipacia looked when you knocked guys out and
won championships and the people are cheering. He's done something great.
He's done something great. And now what I'm worried about
is media being respected, being respected by everybody else in boxing.

(01:05:58):
I'm worried about money. I want everything to be right.
I'm worried about business relationships. Fuck that, man. What it
was all about in the beginning was glory for showing
who I am in the ring.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
And you said, you said it right off the boat,
you said it was an illusion, illusion that wasn't real.
Like you know what I mean, that's the media, That's
what everything you're talking about. What's real in boxing has
got to be what happens in the ring. Yeah, I mean,
that's the only thing that's real, right, What was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Real was me getting him with that punch and shaking
it off like like he was my little cousin. Ye yeah,
my little nephew. What did he just fucking do that?
Everyone tells me all the time. The people was seeing
the fight. Man, he boxed so good. Man, you gotta
keep your hands up. Man, those punches that you took.
I mean, he knocked out a lot of guys. He

(01:06:49):
knocked out gambo, He knocked out a bunch of guys
that crumbled like paper. It didn't even phase me, not
for a second.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I think I think I saw you. I thought I
think I saw you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Smile him while he did it took It took two
or three rounds of that, that nervousness, that hesitation going
through that boxing, and even when he landed those haymakers,
the fight was so fucking close.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Those rounds were so close. I mean, I was making
it so difficult for him to do anything that he
wanted to do, and I was kind of boxing him
very well in all the rounds, but then there was
moments where he would capitalize, and I actually made it
so boring the whole round that when he did something,
it sounds it was so much better than it was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Yeah, we could talk all night about the actual fight.
But what's really really kind of interesting to me. You're
talking about your ego being deconstructed exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
So every every every higher level that I achieved, I say, now, shit,
now I'm fucking up. Here's son. I did everything that
I had to do the fucking gay here. Now I'm
hearing full confidence in front of everybody. Yeah, And then
I'm like, oh, wait, no, fucking idiot, that's not it. Yeah,

(01:08:02):
because once you have that, it's a false sense of security.
You got to keep fucking doing the thing that got
you here, man. And like everybody, a lot of people
have tried to tell me that. My father told me
all the time. He says, yeah, look, and you've said
it to me before too. And our friendship out said,
He's like, you're a boxer, man, you are talented. You're
gonna go on to do anything that you want to

(01:08:22):
fucking do in this life because you have the work ethic,
You're likable, you're this, you're that. But what made you
you is your boxing. On a deeper level, what it
really was was my termination and my feeling for wanting
to be great, and the only thing that I know

(01:08:43):
how to do greatly is work hard, man, work hard,
and fucking tough it out with the best fighters in
the world. Prove myself in the eyes of one of
the greatest traders of all time, Freddie Roach. That is
what gives me the confidence to walk around and and
and and truly believe in myself and express that and
share the energy with others. You know, try to let

(01:09:05):
that robb off a little, but just feel feel the
box huring this prime feel the young man. The ego
is a sword and the shield man. You know, it's
a sword in the shield. But the sword, the sword
is sharp and it can cut you and the shield
can block ship, but it could be so heavy that
it stops you from doing the things that you want.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
So that's just what you're saying there is it's it's
your tool manager. You're trying to have to use your
ego and watch it so that you can block when
you need to block, and you can strike when you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
You can't let it you can't let it out weigh
you know, we have our protectiveness and we have the
things that makes this go. Get it and look I
couldn't without feeding my ego. There's no fucking way I could.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Have powerful information, yeah, to be able to say, like,
I understand my ego when it's helping me, and I
understand my ego when it's defending me. And I'm not
going to become super defensive that I can't attack, and
I'm not going to go so much on the attack
that I can't defend myself.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
It'll hurt yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
Imaginable