October 26, 2023 • 40 mins
The lens through which we view the world is our perspective, but more often that not, our past experiences color that lens, making everything seem like a reflection of history.
This episode is the story of the photographer, Lindsey Byrnes. Stick around after the break for a vulnerable chat about her new project that centers around the search for an alternative perspective.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Beyond imaginable.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The lens through which we see the world is our perspective,
but more often than not, our past experiences color that lens,
making everything seem like a reflection of history. This episode
is the story of the photographer Lindsey Burns. Stick around
for a vulnerable chat about her new project, The centers
(00:25):
around the search for an alternative perspective. I'm your host,
Jimmy Brown. You're listening to the unimaginable beyond imaginable.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
My name is Lindsay Burns. I am a photographer, sometimes director,
sometimes creative director, all encompassing whatever I'm here, I'm human.
Where do I begin?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
From birth? Should I begin? From birth? Grew up in
southern California, North County, San Diego, a couple blocks from
the beach Lucky Me. My parents took me to India,
me and my brother when I was about three years old.
They were exploring their hippiness. From what I can figure
(01:21):
out now, my mom was a feminist. She was trying
to find herself after her first marriage, finding herself in
a second marriage. And she was about I think twenty
seven twenty eight at the time, two kids, and discovered
a guru by the name of Bagwan shri rog Niche,
(01:44):
which some might know as oh show now, is actually
a pretty significant time in my life because because we
went there and then we came back without her, we
continued our life without her in it anymore. You know,
she was in it through postcards. I love postcards. You know,
(02:06):
she was in our lives by phone calls and pictures.
I lived in a great place, you know, North County,
San Diego was amazing sunny, and you know, I'm in
love with the ocean, and I was always in the ocean.
And I think I grew up with everything that I needed,
(02:32):
not everything that I wanted, but I had everything that
I needed. And I think that I like to differentiate
the two because I wanted a lot. But you know,
my earliest years I wanted her to be around. I
think that my earliest memories being tied to a photo
and tied to photos and learning about my mother through
(02:55):
images that she left behind bags of photos. Currently have
boxes of photos right now that I'm starting to scan
and go through, and it's just it's wild how how
much I could make up, you know, just through one
one image. So yeah, So after college, I I was
(03:20):
hanging out I was really I was still really into
surfing and snowboarding and skateboarding. I just, you know, I
just loved the moment I stepped on a surfboard. I
was like, this is for me. I was really into
action sports. I was really into the culture around that
(03:41):
and subcultures, if you will. And so after college, I
was hanging out with a bunch of people and this
girl looked at me and she goes, do you want
my job? And I was like, what's your job? And
she said, well, I do you know. I like answer
(04:02):
the phones at this place. I also do sales for
this like skate skateboard company, but it's like T shirts
and whatever. And I was like, yeah, that sounds good.
I'll take your job. I mean, I don't know that
it really works that way, but she was scouting for
(04:23):
her job, and so I just I started working at
this place that was owned by Tamieto and Tomato did
manufactured and sold toy Machine skateboards. Found Foundation Skateboards, a big,
big company in San Diego, and and then that kind
(04:47):
of set me off in working in action sports. And
I was like, whoa, this is super creative. And also
I'm a business person, so I was. I was having
fun and I was making money, and that job didn't
really work out, but it led me to another job
(05:08):
and then another job, and then I landed up in
San Francisco working for a magazine cult Thrasher and a
magazine called Juxtapose, and that was really another kind of
turning point in my life. I was doing some interviews.
(05:31):
I was interviewing, you know, skateboarders, and I was doing
some stuff for trans World business. You know, I was like,
I am going to be a writer. This is this
is what I am. And I went in and I
had like a really crappy portfolio, like for real, it
was not good. And I showed them my writing and
(05:52):
the editor at the time looked at me and he said, well,
You're not a writer. And my heart just like shattered
in a million pieces. And for some reason I believed
this person. You know, I was like, I'm not a writer,
but I knew that I really wanted to work there.
You know. I'd moved up to San Francisco with a
(06:16):
partner and I was managing a coffee restaurant shop type
of thing, which meant that I made twenty five cents
more than everybody else as the manager, and I was
getting up at like five in the morning and it
just sucked. And I was like this, this really really sucks.
(06:39):
I'm going to work at High Speed Productions that publishes
these really cool magazines. They were like, look, you're not
a writer, but you know, check back with us. And
so every time I'd be like when do you want
me to check back with you? And they were like,
check back in one month, and like one month to
the day, I would call. And this went on for
(07:01):
a few months, and they were like, you know what
you are. You're a salesperson. And I was like, you
are right, I am a salesperson. They were like, this
is what you are, and do you want to sell
advertising for this magazine Juxtaposent? I was like, yeah, I
should find Fuck yeah I do. That got me started
on the next decade of my life. I couldn't believe it.
(07:24):
Just I didn't understand that people could take pictures and
get paid for it. That to me was like wait
a second, and I couldn't and I really couldn't believe that,
like I was getting you know, I was in a
place where I was getting paid to have all of
(07:46):
these great experiences while being the salesperson that I was,
you know, because that's what I was told. I was
told that I was a salesperson. But I am a
people person. I love people, and as terrified as I
I am of people, I really like my main drive
in life is to connect. And so it's been a real,
(08:09):
a lifelong dance with trying to connect with people and
then being terrified of connecting with people. You know, while
I was while I was there, I picked up a
camera and my boss had given me a camera. I
(08:30):
was throwing events. I was doing promotions of this magazine
that nobody had ever heard of, this art magazine. Because
I was like, if I'm going to sell ads, then
I need people to know about the magazine. So I started,
you know, sending juxtaposed to galleries and all this stuff
and going all over the place and having fun doing that.
And and also I really wanted my boss to know
(08:53):
that I wasn't just like I had a corporate card.
You know, this is wild. I had a corporate card,
and and so I was like constantly trying to prove
that I was doing what I said I was doing.
This is before Instagram reels, you know. It was like
here I am it was like I'll take a picture
and then i'll get it developed and I'll show you
(09:14):
here's where I was, and here's the people that I met,
and this is what I'm doing. And I'm really doing
what I'm doing. And really it was just like a
you know, documented proof. They weren't asking for it. I
don't know why. I was just constantly trying to prove myself.
I think I got to a place where I realized
(09:35):
that I had to kind of hit a ceiling. I
just realized that that there was something else. And I
think I got really interested in music. I had joined
a band, you know, all the while like working at
this job. I mean, this is like ten years at
a job. Oh. Also, I started taking I took a
(09:59):
photography class. I that like photo editor of Thrasher was
giving me film and he just knew because I was
like I just loved this. This is crazy. And I
was like super super obsessed with my name next to
a photo. You know. I got some of it started
(10:21):
to get published, and I was like, this is so cool.
What a better way to prove myself than to have
my name you know, in a in a magazine and
uh and and so that was kind of like the
first steps into what I what I'm doing now. And
(10:44):
then yeah, then through my love of like live music photography,
which which you know, kind of to roll it into that,
I decided that I needed to kind of change my
life and not have this big love affair with alcohol
anymore because that stopped working and the only way for
(11:09):
me to go out and enjoy live music and in
these settings, the best tool that I had was sticking
a camera in front of my face and kind of
like being a part of but not really being a
part of. That kind of just got me started on
this journey of documenting live music. Got a I got
(11:33):
a job in LA and I put in my notice
and I moved into an apartment in Los Angeles that
I had never seen before and started working for Golden
Voice for Coachella and in a marketing capacity. And I
(11:56):
was like, this is amazing because I had discovered Coachella
like on a on a trip and I was and
I was like, this is just every kind of music
you could ever want curated into one one day. And
not only this one day, but I could go and
take pictures of all of these different bands and it
(12:17):
was all just like right, there, And this was before
there was a music festival, you know, for every you know,
every weekend, you know, there's a music festival somewhere right now.
So I don't know. I think that this was just
like a time when I was really like finding myself.
(12:44):
You know, if I told you about my life, I
don't know here I am. I'm I'm now working at
Golden Boys at Coachella, like arguably one of the biggest promoters,
you know, memusic promoters. I was like, there's no way
(13:04):
that there's a ceiling in music, you know, because everybody
that this was my thought process. I did a ceiling,
and I was going to go work in music because
there is no ceiling because music touches everything, So how
could there be a ceiling? I think like the only
(13:26):
ceiling that I had was like my mind beyond imaginable,
beyond imaginable.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So I'm interested to kind of learn about like the
process that you have when it comes down to the
actual moment behind the camera where you're like that's this
is it, and I know you're going to take a
ton of those pictures and not of that moment and
edit it and stuff. But the feeling that you get
to make you do that. What's where did that come from?
Because I think it started with out of necessity and
(13:58):
then obviously you became a very artistic but the whole.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thing I think, I think it's it's kind of all
the same. I mean, it's still evolving, right, it's necessary.
Like I'm even thinking right now, I'm like, oh, I
should take a picture of this moment because I'll forget.
You know, we have a friend in common and and
he just pulled up a photo of like one of
(14:21):
the last times we hung out, you know, and it
was like remember this, and and it triggers something in
in my brain and I'm like, oh, that's so nice.
You know, sometimes it's not nice. Sometimes it's it's a
moment that maybe we didn't want to remember. But but
I think for me, I was so afraid or I
(14:44):
am so afraid that I'm going to forget things that you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Think that's what drives the picture to be so good.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I don't know, I mean, is it good?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I I well, you know what, I like them.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know what I wonder do people like them? Or
do people like the people who are in the pictures?
I don't know people like Yeah, people like some of
my photographs. I just shot a wedding and it was
so amazing. You know, people poop on weddings all the time,
like oh, you know, like of course you don't want
(15:20):
to tell people you've ever shot, and I've shot. I've
shot a few weddings for friends, and it's like it's
a wild day for them, you know. And and it's
weird that other photographers will be like, I do this,
but I shoot weddings sometimes, but like, don't tell anybody,
And it's like, why what do you what do you mean?
(15:42):
So you know, I'm shooting this wedding. It's two people
that I like, I really care for in a in
a really big time in their life, and and they
are it's like the weirdest thing. Okay, so they're not
the weirdest thing. But they decided that they were going
(16:04):
to have a very very small ceremony while everybody was
doing the cocktail hour, so they only let like their
family into the ceremony. And I'm kind of like losing
my mind because I'm like, I can't like document everything.
How can I be here and there? And I even
hired someone, you know, an assistant, and and and I
(16:27):
remember there was a part in the night where I
was like, I didn't I didn't get enough. We're gonna
have to I don't know, Like I actually I was like,
you guys don't have to pay me, which is so insane, right,
I was like, well, just until, you know, until you
(16:47):
get it. Because I didn't get enough. There's six thousand photos,
six thousand photos. I started downloading everything that night. I
stayed up until five in the morning because I didn't
want one moment of this day that they had like
almost fought for. You know. I mean, this is a
(17:08):
woman and her non binary partner and in a place
where not too long ago, you know, if you were
both born women, you could not get married, and you
know it's important, and so then it was important to me.
(17:34):
And I think that that's kind of how I treat everything.
You know. It's like if I'm going to go document
somebody on their going to a premiere and it's important
to them, that it's important to me, you know, and
I want them to love the photographs. So if you know,
if I only take five and they don't like any
(17:54):
of the five, then I messed up because I didn't
take the sixth.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You know, obsessive.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's a little obsessive. It's a little obsessive, you know.
And I've changed my technique up a bit because I
think that that's that's when you don't want somebody around
when they're just like because it's actually not about me.
And I think when I first started, I really it
was about me. I thought it was about me, and
(18:27):
and that's that's kind of the difference. Now as I've
grown and matured in my career and and kind of
in my lifetime. You know, now I can look back
and go, oh, I got that opportunity to go on
tour because I was dating this person and they wanted
(18:48):
me around. I can say that, you know, with confidence,
because I'm more confident in my career, so I'm not
as threatened. You know. I was really threatened when I
came out, like everybody's just like iphoning and putting filters on,
and everything to me looked better than the photographs that
I was taking. And I was like, I am going
(19:08):
to lose my job. You know, nobody's gonna hire me
because everybody can just take pictures. And where that's kind
of true, a lot has a lot has developed. There's
there's a lot more that goes into being a photographer
than just clicking the button. And so I think that
(19:30):
I'm more confident, Like I don't have to posture as
much as I used to, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
So what's the art project that you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
At the At the moment, I'm trying to be more
vulnerable through doing things like this, like talking to you
and you know, having a point of view through the lens,
which is more than you hire me to take a
(20:03):
picture of you and we create art that way. This
is a little more like I'm hiring myself to voice
a concept that I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So obviously there's like a messaging aspect of that.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
What oh, here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Messaging about it?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Love?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You know, what's the what's it's messaging about? Uh? Have
you ever had anybody cry on one of these things?
It's hard, you know, It's like I don't want to
talk about it because I do. I want it to happen.
(20:47):
It's you know, I talked about this earlier. You know,
my mom was a feminist, you know, and she had
two kids, and she didn't have a lot of money,
and you know, the story that was told to me
(21:08):
was it was better for us to stay with my dad,
and I can't tell, like the tears that are happening
right now are anger or sadness or like. This is
what I'm working on in therapy is kind of separating
the anxiety. It might just be anxiety, but I want
(21:29):
to express through this project kind of like the most
defining time in my life. And we talk about this
all the time, that you know, everything leads back to
early childhood attachments, memories we have trigger our responses to
(21:51):
you know, to people, to things, to the decisions that
we make. I had this story in my head that was,
you know, or whatever narrative it was that like my
mother had to go out and find herself and that
being a mother wasn't the wasn't the best thing. Therefore
(22:13):
I wasn't the best thing. There's another side to that,
and that is that, you know, our society wasn't really
set up and still isn't really set up in a
way that made it particularly easy for her to stick around.
And I think that there is a certain thing that
happens when you're three and a half and all of
(22:35):
a sudden, your mom's like somewhere else, you know, and
not to be like oh woe is me or whatever.
But what I think happened there was that it fueled
kind of like every decision and every every experience that
(22:57):
I had in my life, which is wild and so
and so what I would love to do is find
a way to express that. And I'm working on it,
and I'm kind of just like in it right now,
you know. And it's not to make an excuse for her,
(23:20):
for my dad, or for myself or for my behavior.
It's just to kind of, uh, just kind of show
that side of things, you know, and also to to
to pay respect and tribute, like you know, and be like, hey,
(23:43):
high five to all you people who can stick around,
you know, and high five to all you people who
knew your limitations and you know left. You know. It's
not like a a blame game. It's just I just
want to somehow be able to get it out.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And what would the messaging be.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Well, we'll have to find out, won't.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Interesting, Because I think when you go when you travel
back in time to those moments, and like I guess
you have to kind of you know, go there to
a certain degree and think about it and then switch
gears to a different perspective and think about it from that,
and then when you do that, then obviously things.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Are uncovered to you that you probably haven't worked aware of.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Do you think that the messaging will just kind of
come out of that discovery of that?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, I mean I think that what's fun about even
talking about this stuff is, you know, I kind of
gave you a an account for a recount. I don't
know a summary of like what brought me to hear,
but everything has brought me to hear. So everything has
been kind of bubbling to these realizations beyond imaginable, beyond imaginable.
(25:10):
Everything has brought me here. This is not like new,
This is not like a new discovery. What's new to
me is to recognize that there was a different perspective.
And who knows. I mean, you know, she's still around.
It's so weird to be talking about this. She's still around,
She's probably listening to this. I'm mom, But I really,
(25:35):
I actually really think that my perspective was like, subconsciously
I was like I'm a piece of shit and even
my mother didn't love me, you know, something like that,
But really it was it wasn't really even about me,
you know, totally.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I mean there's no way that was about you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Probably yeah, but it's obviously that's not what you think
whenever you're that's certain is I mean, I've been through
similar things in my life where hi mom again, I
have been you know, you know, as a kid grew
up and you think, well, things were so terrible and
all of that, but then you know, and growing up
(26:18):
in Belfast where I grew up, maybe it's similar to
what you were referencing about how there wasn't really enough
support societally speaking around mental health or you know, you know,
people didn't really know what was going on in people's
homes or you know, or just was like you know,
if you want to see a psychiatrist, then you were
all of a sudden like you know, blacklisted.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
In some way socially or whatever. People maybe you look
at a job.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But now that you know, I'm older, I look back
on it and I'm like, yeah, there's definitely like they
were definitely going through it, like kind of like how
I'm going through it, you know, or like that anyone
else has gone through it and they may not have
been able to make the right decisions for so many reasons,
and maybe some of the decisions they made that I
(27:03):
think are wrong, might have been right for them, you
know at the time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I think that's a pretty powerful thing to think about,
you know.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think that's a really interesting and probably helpful piece
of work.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That you'll end up coming up with.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And also I think
like just this, you know, driving this, this like I
got to prove myself, I got to you know, all
of all of those things like this driving force and
and kind of also this idea you know behind like
(27:40):
I said, my mom was a feminist. You know what
what kind of life was she living at the time,
you know, at the time when she had my brother,
who's five years older. I'm pretty sure she couldn't have
a credit card unless her husband signed for it. I mean,
that was not that long ago. And I think that
I think that these are things that you know, we forget.
(28:02):
You know, I live in Los Angeles. I'm in a
bubble of like, you know, a bubble of equality, I guess.
But that's that was a real thing. And so you know,
there were there are plenty of women who stuck in
(28:23):
it and stayed and did all of those things, and
you know, some who just couldn't and either they took
their own lives or they you know, or they left,
you know. I think that it was like pretty rare.
Our society is like, no, you have to stay. You
are the woman, You've got to do this. And and
even like our biology like biologically we stay, you know.
(28:50):
So anyway, Yeah, I think that that the it's kind
of like an exploration of this changing perspective of you
know what what is that? And and the other thing
is is you know, even I could ask ten people
right now to define feminism and I don't think that
(29:12):
they would know how, and I've done it.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, I was just thinking about what it was. I
was actually just thinking of myself what feminism actually?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Feminism is it literally the idea that women deserve equal rights.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, that's I mean, that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
That's it. I mean, we could just look it up
right now, like look up the definition. Let's do it, Like,
let's just go like feminism define, yeah, old school google.
What a wild concept? You know. I think the last
time I asked someone do you know what feminism means?
(29:51):
Because he was like, he said to me, I'm not
a feminist, and I was like, wait, wait, you are
a feminist. What do you mean, you're not a feminist
and he thought that it meant man hater. Yeah, I mean,
but that's so wait, what's the definition.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of
the equality of the sexes.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's what you said, basically.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, that's that is it. And and so how did
the definition of feminism, like, how did it get morphed
into you know, something entirely different. I think it's brutal culture, hormones,
hormones drugs, I mean hormones, drugs, you know, to bring
(30:33):
it back to pictures and uh is yeah, I'm just
I I guess what I want to be able to
explore and and message out there is it's just my
experience of you know, abandonment and and all of those
(31:01):
those things that came along with it. With also this
idea of how society contributed to that, you know, if
that makes sense. You know, like I said earlier, my
parents went to India to follow this guru and and
and you know, it was like it was it was
(31:24):
the late seventies. Yeah, you know, I'm really dating myself.
I'm scared of agism too. That's the other thing I
think through through photography and my career, I've been able
to highlight a lot of women like give like shine
(31:44):
a light on you know, full bodied women and you
know trans women. And I'm thinking about some of the
covers I've done, you know, the first Pride cover for
Noton was something that I got to do. And and
(32:06):
through media and through photography, the more that we see
these things and the more that we see you know,
how our rules of society maybe affect human lives. That
inspires us to change. And and I think that that's
(32:29):
one thing that has always driven me in my career
is like if I can if I can show you know,
a bigger view, a wider view, and there's a lot
of people who feel this way. I'm not like a
pioneer in this. You know, if I can be one
(32:50):
of the many who's doing that, then that's how things change.
And so so that's what I've been doing. Media is
so powerful, you know, what we see is so powerful
and the images that that we take into our brain
(33:11):
and how you know, how we know you have a kid,
you have a nine month or you have a year
you have your kids a year old. I'm certain even
though I'm going to ask you, but I'm I'm in
my core. I'm certain that you think about every image
(33:32):
that comes into your child's brain, especially being the first images.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, we're at a point in time in history that
like we haven't been before, you know, the truly speaking,
and also I think just with what's going on and
how I advanced everything has become technologically speaking, and also
with you know, all of the different political problems that
are happening across the world, that anything that can aid
(34:01):
people's conscious on their their spirit to a place of humanity,
you know that we're together here where you know, we
don't all have to have our individual little pieces and
not communicate ever and forget the fact that we're all
together in this thing. Anything that can help that, in
my mind, is a great thing to do, you know,
(34:23):
and important. And that sounds like you'll end up coming
up with something of something like that, you know, which
is which is I'm excited to see?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, I mean, I hope. So it's just it's fun
to be in in a in a project. It's actually
like really fun to think about. You know, why why
am I so obsessed with taking pictures? Why am I
like so why am I always like it's never enough,
you know, like all of those things. Yeah, I don't know,
(34:55):
it just kind of it kind of is. I definitely
don't think that. I don't think that I would continue
on this path if I didn't feel like I really
had to.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, because you mentioned that earlier before we started recording,
and it was it was like, yeah, my heart's in it,
but I don't know if I necessarily want to share that.
But this new project that I'm doing is more something
than my heart's my heart's always in it, but I
actually want to share it, you know. Is that kind
of what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, I think that it's weird to talk about something
that hasn't come to fruation.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You get the idea of not saying what something is
before does, but creatively, it's just like there's no need
to speak about it or even from a business point.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Of view, don't bring it up until well.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I'm also like, you know, do I need to call
my mom and be like, hey, just so you know,
I'm gonna I'm going to like really start talking about
this like I just have to.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It might be really helpful for what you're creating. Yeah, Yeah,
because then you'll get her perspective.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Not Yeah, I mean that's kind of cool that that's
a thank you, thank you for helping me on this journey. Yeah.
And and when people ask me like, oh, what are
you what are you working on right now? It's such
a loaded question because I'm kind of like, well, I'm
working on the next thing that somebody calls me, you know,
like for my job. If they're like, hey, do you
(36:27):
want to do this thing? You know, I just booked
something in York and you know what is that? Is
that a is it a project? Or is that a job?
You know? How do how do we separate the two?
I've been sitting in the dark lately because I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Okay, why you know.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I'm sad about this state of the world. I'm sad
about I'm sad about media in a weird way, like
I'm happy about it. I'm happy that everyone is a
journalist now everyone can just like throw out what they
are throwing out like as if it is the news.
(37:12):
And I'm also like really sad about it. So like
I'm happy about it and I'm really sad about it.
I'm happy about it because what it does is it
takes the one sided power away. I'm sad about it
because there's no For a lot of these people, there's
no training involved, and so there's no hesitation and no
(37:35):
fore thought. It's like giving you know, it's like giving
a tool to a four year old and being like, here,
say whatever you want to. These millions of people, like
four year olds, don't think more than one step in
front of them. And so when you know, I'm seeing
(38:00):
news reports coming out like as if it's breaking news
from one person who might have a big following or
somebody who then here's that, and then it's just like
it's like a fire, and so I'm just I don't know,
I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
What do you do from here?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know, because that's already those images, right, those stories
are implanted and being embedded for years and have been
built upon and strategically built upon potentially and sure now
with algorithms kind of helping that whole process. And it's like,
you know, that's a that's a really long and kind
of windy road there that has to be figured out somehow,
(38:43):
you know. So yeah, it's a tough one. But I
don't want there to be no hope. That's all because
I do really believe at the end of the day,
if people can realize that they are human and what
that really means and how fragile that really is, that
that perspective does, honest you probably provide enough hope for
(39:03):
it to kind of crush all that all that propaganda,
all the bad information, because it's love, you know, and
not trumps all that stuff in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, And when you when you're talking about that, you know,
there is a there's there's a view of everything where
no matter what what side you're you're looking at, if
you look at it with love, you can see that
all everybody's really trying to do at the end of
the day is show humanity on each side, you know.
(39:34):
And and then I can kind of step back, like
as you were talking, I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
you know these are I'm just I'm seeing people's eyes
and and I'm thinking, okay, like change of perspective, and
I think that that's you know, that's what's so wild about,
(39:57):
you know about photography really is it's perspective. You know,
everything's about perspective. And being able to show my perspective
and hoping that somebody connects with it is really a privilege, imaginable,
Beyond imaginable.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The lens through which we see the world is our perspective,
but more often than not, our past experiences color that lens,
making everything seem like a reflection of history. This episode
is the story of the photographer Lindsey Burns. Stick around
for a vulnerable chat about her new project, The centers
(00:25):
around the search for an alternative perspective. I'm your host,
Jimmy Brown. You're listening to the unimaginable beyond imaginable.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
My name is Lindsay Burns. I am a photographer, sometimes director,
sometimes creative director, all encompassing whatever I'm here, I'm human.
Where do I begin?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
From birth? Should I begin? From birth? Grew up in
southern California, North County, San Diego, a couple blocks from
the beach Lucky Me. My parents took me to India,
me and my brother when I was about three years old.
They were exploring their hippiness. From what I can figure
(01:21):
out now, my mom was a feminist. She was trying
to find herself after her first marriage, finding herself in
a second marriage. And she was about I think twenty
seven twenty eight at the time, two kids, and discovered
a guru by the name of Bagwan shri rog Niche,
(01:44):
which some might know as oh show now, is actually
a pretty significant time in my life because because we
went there and then we came back without her, we
continued our life without her in it anymore. You know,
she was in it through postcards. I love postcards. You know,
(02:06):
she was in our lives by phone calls and pictures.
I lived in a great place, you know, North County,
San Diego was amazing sunny, and you know, I'm in
love with the ocean, and I was always in the ocean.
And I think I grew up with everything that I needed,
(02:32):
not everything that I wanted, but I had everything that
I needed. And I think that I like to differentiate
the two because I wanted a lot. But you know,
my earliest years I wanted her to be around. I
think that my earliest memories being tied to a photo
and tied to photos and learning about my mother through
(02:55):
images that she left behind bags of photos. Currently have
boxes of photos right now that I'm starting to scan
and go through, and it's just it's wild how how
much I could make up, you know, just through one
one image. So yeah, So after college, I I was
(03:20):
hanging out I was really I was still really into
surfing and snowboarding and skateboarding. I just, you know, I
just loved the moment I stepped on a surfboard. I
was like, this is for me. I was really into
action sports. I was really into the culture around that
(03:41):
and subcultures, if you will. And so after college, I
was hanging out with a bunch of people and this
girl looked at me and she goes, do you want
my job? And I was like, what's your job? And
she said, well, I do you know. I like answer
(04:02):
the phones at this place. I also do sales for
this like skate skateboard company, but it's like T shirts
and whatever. And I was like, yeah, that sounds good.
I'll take your job. I mean, I don't know that
it really works that way, but she was scouting for
(04:23):
her job, and so I just I started working at
this place that was owned by Tamieto and Tomato did
manufactured and sold toy Machine skateboards. Found Foundation Skateboards, a big,
big company in San Diego, and and then that kind
(04:47):
of set me off in working in action sports. And
I was like, whoa, this is super creative. And also
I'm a business person, so I was. I was having
fun and I was making money, and that job didn't
really work out, but it led me to another job
(05:08):
and then another job, and then I landed up in
San Francisco working for a magazine cult Thrasher and a
magazine called Juxtapose, and that was really another kind of
turning point in my life. I was doing some interviews.
(05:31):
I was interviewing, you know, skateboarders, and I was doing
some stuff for trans World business. You know, I was like,
I am going to be a writer. This is this
is what I am. And I went in and I
had like a really crappy portfolio, like for real, it
was not good. And I showed them my writing and
(05:52):
the editor at the time looked at me and he said, well,
You're not a writer. And my heart just like shattered
in a million pieces. And for some reason I believed
this person. You know, I was like, I'm not a writer,
but I knew that I really wanted to work there.
You know. I'd moved up to San Francisco with a
(06:16):
partner and I was managing a coffee restaurant shop type
of thing, which meant that I made twenty five cents
more than everybody else as the manager, and I was
getting up at like five in the morning and it
just sucked. And I was like this, this really really sucks.
(06:39):
I'm going to work at High Speed Productions that publishes
these really cool magazines. They were like, look, you're not
a writer, but you know, check back with us. And
so every time I'd be like when do you want
me to check back with you? And they were like,
check back in one month, and like one month to
the day, I would call. And this went on for
(07:01):
a few months, and they were like, you know what
you are. You're a salesperson. And I was like, you
are right, I am a salesperson. They were like, this
is what you are, and do you want to sell
advertising for this magazine Juxtaposent? I was like, yeah, I
should find Fuck yeah I do. That got me started
on the next decade of my life. I couldn't believe it.
(07:24):
Just I didn't understand that people could take pictures and
get paid for it. That to me was like wait
a second, and I couldn't and I really couldn't believe that,
like I was getting you know, I was in a
place where I was getting paid to have all of
(07:46):
these great experiences while being the salesperson that I was,
you know, because that's what I was told. I was
told that I was a salesperson. But I am a
people person. I love people, and as terrified as I
I am of people, I really like my main drive
in life is to connect. And so it's been a real,
(08:09):
a lifelong dance with trying to connect with people and
then being terrified of connecting with people. You know, while
I was while I was there, I picked up a
camera and my boss had given me a camera. I
(08:30):
was throwing events. I was doing promotions of this magazine
that nobody had ever heard of, this art magazine. Because
I was like, if I'm going to sell ads, then
I need people to know about the magazine. So I started,
you know, sending juxtaposed to galleries and all this stuff
and going all over the place and having fun doing that.
And and also I really wanted my boss to know
(08:53):
that I wasn't just like I had a corporate card.
You know, this is wild. I had a corporate card,
and and so I was like constantly trying to prove
that I was doing what I said I was doing.
This is before Instagram reels, you know. It was like
here I am it was like I'll take a picture
and then i'll get it developed and I'll show you
(09:14):
here's where I was, and here's the people that I met,
and this is what I'm doing. And I'm really doing
what I'm doing. And really it was just like a
you know, documented proof. They weren't asking for it. I
don't know why. I was just constantly trying to prove myself.
I think I got to a place where I realized
(09:35):
that I had to kind of hit a ceiling. I
just realized that that there was something else. And I
think I got really interested in music. I had joined
a band, you know, all the while like working at
this job. I mean, this is like ten years at
a job. Oh. Also, I started taking I took a
(09:59):
photography class. I that like photo editor of Thrasher was
giving me film and he just knew because I was
like I just loved this. This is crazy. And I
was like super super obsessed with my name next to
a photo. You know. I got some of it started
(10:21):
to get published, and I was like, this is so cool.
What a better way to prove myself than to have
my name you know, in a in a magazine and
uh and and so that was kind of like the
first steps into what I what I'm doing now. And
(10:44):
then yeah, then through my love of like live music photography,
which which you know, kind of to roll it into that,
I decided that I needed to kind of change my
life and not have this big love affair with alcohol
anymore because that stopped working and the only way for
(11:09):
me to go out and enjoy live music and in
these settings, the best tool that I had was sticking
a camera in front of my face and kind of
like being a part of but not really being a
part of. That kind of just got me started on
this journey of documenting live music. Got a I got
(11:33):
a job in LA and I put in my notice
and I moved into an apartment in Los Angeles that
I had never seen before and started working for Golden
Voice for Coachella and in a marketing capacity. And I
(11:56):
was like, this is amazing because I had discovered Coachella
like on a on a trip and I was and
I was like, this is just every kind of music
you could ever want curated into one one day. And
not only this one day, but I could go and
take pictures of all of these different bands and it
(12:17):
was all just like right, there, And this was before
there was a music festival, you know, for every you know,
every weekend, you know, there's a music festival somewhere right now.
So I don't know. I think that this was just
like a time when I was really like finding myself.
(12:44):
You know, if I told you about my life, I
don't know here I am. I'm I'm now working at
Golden Boys at Coachella, like arguably one of the biggest promoters,
you know, memusic promoters. I was like, there's no way
(13:04):
that there's a ceiling in music, you know, because everybody
that this was my thought process. I did a ceiling,
and I was going to go work in music because
there is no ceiling because music touches everything, So how
could there be a ceiling? I think like the only
(13:26):
ceiling that I had was like my mind beyond imaginable,
beyond imaginable.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So I'm interested to kind of learn about like the
process that you have when it comes down to the
actual moment behind the camera where you're like that's this
is it, and I know you're going to take a
ton of those pictures and not of that moment and
edit it and stuff. But the feeling that you get
to make you do that. What's where did that come from?
Because I think it started with out of necessity and
(13:58):
then obviously you became a very artistic but the whole.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thing I think, I think it's it's kind of all
the same. I mean, it's still evolving, right, it's necessary.
Like I'm even thinking right now, I'm like, oh, I
should take a picture of this moment because I'll forget.
You know, we have a friend in common and and
he just pulled up a photo of like one of
(14:21):
the last times we hung out, you know, and it
was like remember this, and and it triggers something in
in my brain and I'm like, oh, that's so nice.
You know, sometimes it's not nice. Sometimes it's it's a
moment that maybe we didn't want to remember. But but
I think for me, I was so afraid or I
(14:44):
am so afraid that I'm going to forget things that you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Think that's what drives the picture to be so good.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I don't know, I mean, is it good?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I I well, you know what, I like them.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know what I wonder do people like them? Or
do people like the people who are in the pictures?
I don't know people like Yeah, people like some of
my photographs. I just shot a wedding and it was
so amazing. You know, people poop on weddings all the time,
like oh, you know, like of course you don't want
(15:20):
to tell people you've ever shot, and I've shot. I've
shot a few weddings for friends, and it's like it's
a wild day for them, you know. And and it's
weird that other photographers will be like, I do this,
but I shoot weddings sometimes, but like, don't tell anybody,
And it's like, why what do you what do you mean?
(15:42):
So you know, I'm shooting this wedding. It's two people
that I like, I really care for in a in
a really big time in their life, and and they
are it's like the weirdest thing. Okay, so they're not
the weirdest thing. But they decided that they were going
(16:04):
to have a very very small ceremony while everybody was
doing the cocktail hour, so they only let like their
family into the ceremony. And I'm kind of like losing
my mind because I'm like, I can't like document everything.
How can I be here and there? And I even
hired someone, you know, an assistant, and and and I
(16:27):
remember there was a part in the night where I
was like, I didn't I didn't get enough. We're gonna
have to I don't know, Like I actually I was like,
you guys don't have to pay me, which is so insane, right,
I was like, well, just until, you know, until you
(16:47):
get it. Because I didn't get enough. There's six thousand photos,
six thousand photos. I started downloading everything that night. I
stayed up until five in the morning because I didn't
want one moment of this day that they had like
almost fought for. You know. I mean, this is a
(17:08):
woman and her non binary partner and in a place
where not too long ago, you know, if you were
both born women, you could not get married, and you
know it's important, and so then it was important to me.
(17:34):
And I think that that's kind of how I treat everything.
You know. It's like if I'm going to go document
somebody on their going to a premiere and it's important
to them, that it's important to me, you know, and
I want them to love the photographs. So if you know,
if I only take five and they don't like any
(17:54):
of the five, then I messed up because I didn't
take the sixth.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You know, obsessive.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's a little obsessive. It's a little obsessive, you know.
And I've changed my technique up a bit because I
think that that's that's when you don't want somebody around
when they're just like because it's actually not about me.
And I think when I first started, I really it
was about me. I thought it was about me, and
(18:27):
and that's that's kind of the difference. Now as I've
grown and matured in my career and and kind of
in my lifetime. You know, now I can look back
and go, oh, I got that opportunity to go on
tour because I was dating this person and they wanted
(18:48):
me around. I can say that, you know, with confidence,
because I'm more confident in my career, so I'm not
as threatened. You know. I was really threatened when I
came out, like everybody's just like iphoning and putting filters on,
and everything to me looked better than the photographs that
I was taking. And I was like, I am going
(19:08):
to lose my job. You know, nobody's gonna hire me
because everybody can just take pictures. And where that's kind
of true, a lot has a lot has developed. There's
there's a lot more that goes into being a photographer
than just clicking the button. And so I think that
(19:30):
I'm more confident, Like I don't have to posture as
much as I used to, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
So what's the art project that you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
At the At the moment, I'm trying to be more
vulnerable through doing things like this, like talking to you
and you know, having a point of view through the lens,
which is more than you hire me to take a
(20:03):
picture of you and we create art that way. This
is a little more like I'm hiring myself to voice
a concept that I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So obviously there's like a messaging aspect of that.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
What oh, here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Messaging about it?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Love?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You know, what's the what's it's messaging about? Uh? Have
you ever had anybody cry on one of these things?
It's hard, you know, It's like I don't want to
talk about it because I do. I want it to happen.
(20:47):
It's you know, I talked about this earlier. You know,
my mom was a feminist, you know, and she had
two kids, and she didn't have a lot of money,
and you know, the story that was told to me
(21:08):
was it was better for us to stay with my dad,
and I can't tell, like the tears that are happening
right now are anger or sadness or like. This is
what I'm working on in therapy is kind of separating
the anxiety. It might just be anxiety, but I want
(21:29):
to express through this project kind of like the most
defining time in my life. And we talk about this
all the time, that you know, everything leads back to
early childhood attachments, memories we have trigger our responses to
(21:51):
you know, to people, to things, to the decisions that
we make. I had this story in my head that was,
you know, or whatever narrative it was that like my
mother had to go out and find herself and that
being a mother wasn't the wasn't the best thing. Therefore
(22:13):
I wasn't the best thing. There's another side to that,
and that is that, you know, our society wasn't really
set up and still isn't really set up in a
way that made it particularly easy for her to stick around.
And I think that there is a certain thing that
happens when you're three and a half and all of
(22:35):
a sudden, your mom's like somewhere else, you know, and
not to be like oh woe is me or whatever.
But what I think happened there was that it fueled
kind of like every decision and every every experience that
(22:57):
I had in my life, which is wild and so
and so what I would love to do is find
a way to express that. And I'm working on it,
and I'm kind of just like in it right now,
you know. And it's not to make an excuse for her,
(23:20):
for my dad, or for myself or for my behavior.
It's just to kind of, uh, just kind of show
that side of things, you know, and also to to
to pay respect and tribute, like you know, and be like, hey,
(23:43):
high five to all you people who can stick around,
you know, and high five to all you people who
knew your limitations and you know left. You know. It's
not like a a blame game. It's just I just
want to somehow be able to get it out.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And what would the messaging be.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Well, we'll have to find out, won't.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Interesting, Because I think when you go when you travel
back in time to those moments, and like I guess
you have to kind of you know, go there to
a certain degree and think about it and then switch
gears to a different perspective and think about it from that,
and then when you do that, then obviously things.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Are uncovered to you that you probably haven't worked aware of.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Do you think that the messaging will just kind of
come out of that discovery of that?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, I mean I think that what's fun about even
talking about this stuff is, you know, I kind of
gave you a an account for a recount. I don't
know a summary of like what brought me to hear,
but everything has brought me to hear. So everything has
been kind of bubbling to these realizations beyond imaginable, beyond imaginable.
(25:10):
Everything has brought me here. This is not like new,
This is not like a new discovery. What's new to
me is to recognize that there was a different perspective.
And who knows. I mean, you know, she's still around.
It's so weird to be talking about this. She's still around,
She's probably listening to this. I'm mom, But I really,
(25:35):
I actually really think that my perspective was like, subconsciously
I was like I'm a piece of shit and even
my mother didn't love me, you know, something like that,
But really it was it wasn't really even about me,
you know, totally.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I mean there's no way that was about you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Probably yeah, but it's obviously that's not what you think
whenever you're that's certain is I mean, I've been through
similar things in my life where hi mom again, I
have been you know, you know, as a kid grew
up and you think, well, things were so terrible and
all of that, but then you know, and growing up
(26:18):
in Belfast where I grew up, maybe it's similar to
what you were referencing about how there wasn't really enough
support societally speaking around mental health or you know, you know,
people didn't really know what was going on in people's
homes or you know, or just was like you know,
if you want to see a psychiatrist, then you were
all of a sudden like you know, blacklisted.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
In some way socially or whatever. People maybe you look
at a job.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But now that you know, I'm older, I look back
on it and I'm like, yeah, there's definitely like they
were definitely going through it, like kind of like how
I'm going through it, you know, or like that anyone
else has gone through it and they may not have
been able to make the right decisions for so many reasons,
and maybe some of the decisions they made that I
(27:03):
think are wrong, might have been right for them, you
know at the time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I think that's a pretty powerful thing to think about,
you know.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think that's a really interesting and probably helpful piece
of work.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That you'll end up coming up with.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And also I think
like just this, you know, driving this, this like I
got to prove myself, I got to you know, all
of all of those things like this driving force and
and kind of also this idea you know behind like
(27:40):
I said, my mom was a feminist. You know what
what kind of life was she living at the time,
you know, at the time when she had my brother,
who's five years older. I'm pretty sure she couldn't have
a credit card unless her husband signed for it. I mean,
that was not that long ago. And I think that
I think that these are things that you know, we forget.
(28:02):
You know, I live in Los Angeles. I'm in a
bubble of like, you know, a bubble of equality, I guess.
But that's that was a real thing. And so you know,
there were there are plenty of women who stuck in
(28:23):
it and stayed and did all of those things, and
you know, some who just couldn't and either they took
their own lives or they you know, or they left,
you know. I think that it was like pretty rare.
Our society is like, no, you have to stay. You
are the woman, You've got to do this. And and
even like our biology like biologically we stay, you know.
(28:50):
So anyway, Yeah, I think that that the it's kind
of like an exploration of this changing perspective of you
know what what is that? And and the other thing
is is you know, even I could ask ten people
right now to define feminism and I don't think that
(29:12):
they would know how, and I've done it.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, I was just thinking about what it was. I
was actually just thinking of myself what feminism actually?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Feminism is it literally the idea that women deserve equal rights.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, that's I mean, that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
That's it. I mean, we could just look it up
right now, like look up the definition. Let's do it, Like,
let's just go like feminism define, yeah, old school google.
What a wild concept? You know. I think the last
time I asked someone do you know what feminism means?
(29:51):
Because he was like, he said to me, I'm not
a feminist, and I was like, wait, wait, you are
a feminist. What do you mean, you're not a feminist
and he thought that it meant man hater. Yeah, I mean,
but that's so wait, what's the definition.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of
the equality of the sexes.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's what you said, basically.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, that's that is it. And and so how did
the definition of feminism, like, how did it get morphed
into you know, something entirely different. I think it's brutal culture, hormones,
hormones drugs, I mean hormones, drugs, you know, to bring
(30:33):
it back to pictures and uh is yeah, I'm just
I I guess what I want to be able to
explore and and message out there is it's just my
experience of you know, abandonment and and all of those
(31:01):
those things that came along with it. With also this
idea of how society contributed to that, you know, if
that makes sense. You know, like I said earlier, my
parents went to India to follow this guru and and
and you know, it was like it was it was
(31:24):
the late seventies. Yeah, you know, I'm really dating myself.
I'm scared of agism too. That's the other thing I
think through through photography and my career, I've been able
to highlight a lot of women like give like shine
(31:44):
a light on you know, full bodied women and you
know trans women. And I'm thinking about some of the
covers I've done, you know, the first Pride cover for
Noton was something that I got to do. And and
(32:06):
through media and through photography, the more that we see
these things and the more that we see you know,
how our rules of society maybe affect human lives. That
inspires us to change. And and I think that that's
(32:29):
one thing that has always driven me in my career
is like if I can if I can show you know,
a bigger view, a wider view, and there's a lot
of people who feel this way. I'm not like a
pioneer in this. You know, if I can be one
(32:50):
of the many who's doing that, then that's how things change.
And so so that's what I've been doing. Media is
so powerful, you know, what we see is so powerful
and the images that that we take into our brain
(33:11):
and how you know, how we know you have a kid,
you have a nine month or you have a year
you have your kids a year old. I'm certain even
though I'm going to ask you, but I'm I'm in
my core. I'm certain that you think about every image
(33:32):
that comes into your child's brain, especially being the first images.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, we're at a point in time in history that
like we haven't been before, you know, the truly speaking,
and also I think just with what's going on and
how I advanced everything has become technologically speaking, and also
with you know, all of the different political problems that
are happening across the world, that anything that can aid
(34:01):
people's conscious on their their spirit to a place of humanity,
you know that we're together here where you know, we
don't all have to have our individual little pieces and
not communicate ever and forget the fact that we're all
together in this thing. Anything that can help that, in
my mind, is a great thing to do, you know,
(34:23):
and important. And that sounds like you'll end up coming
up with something of something like that, you know, which
is which is I'm excited to see?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, I mean, I hope. So it's just it's fun
to be in in a in a project. It's actually
like really fun to think about. You know, why why
am I so obsessed with taking pictures? Why am I
like so why am I always like it's never enough,
you know, like all of those things. Yeah, I don't know,
(34:55):
it just kind of it kind of is. I definitely
don't think that. I don't think that I would continue
on this path if I didn't feel like I really
had to.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, because you mentioned that earlier before we started recording,
and it was it was like, yeah, my heart's in it,
but I don't know if I necessarily want to share that.
But this new project that I'm doing is more something
than my heart's my heart's always in it, but I
actually want to share it, you know. Is that kind
of what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, I think that it's weird to talk about something
that hasn't come to fruation.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You get the idea of not saying what something is
before does, but creatively, it's just like there's no need
to speak about it or even from a business point.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Of view, don't bring it up until well.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I'm also like, you know, do I need to call
my mom and be like, hey, just so you know,
I'm gonna I'm going to like really start talking about
this like I just have to.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It might be really helpful for what you're creating. Yeah, Yeah,
because then you'll get her perspective.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Not Yeah, I mean that's kind of cool that that's
a thank you, thank you for helping me on this journey. Yeah.
And and when people ask me like, oh, what are
you what are you working on right now? It's such
a loaded question because I'm kind of like, well, I'm
working on the next thing that somebody calls me, you know,
like for my job. If they're like, hey, do you
(36:27):
want to do this thing? You know, I just booked
something in York and you know what is that? Is
that a is it a project? Or is that a job?
You know? How do how do we separate the two?
I've been sitting in the dark lately because I'm sad.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Okay, why you know.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I'm sad about this state of the world. I'm sad
about I'm sad about media in a weird way, like
I'm happy about it. I'm happy that everyone is a
journalist now everyone can just like throw out what they
are throwing out like as if it is the news.
(37:12):
And I'm also like really sad about it. So like
I'm happy about it and I'm really sad about it.
I'm happy about it because what it does is it
takes the one sided power away. I'm sad about it
because there's no For a lot of these people, there's
no training involved, and so there's no hesitation and no
(37:35):
fore thought. It's like giving you know, it's like giving
a tool to a four year old and being like, here,
say whatever you want to. These millions of people, like
four year olds, don't think more than one step in
front of them. And so when you know, I'm seeing
(38:00):
news reports coming out like as if it's breaking news
from one person who might have a big following or
somebody who then here's that, and then it's just like
it's like a fire, and so I'm just I don't know,
I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
What do you do from here?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You know, because that's already those images, right, those stories
are implanted and being embedded for years and have been
built upon and strategically built upon potentially and sure now
with algorithms kind of helping that whole process. And it's like,
you know, that's a that's a really long and kind
of windy road there that has to be figured out somehow,
(38:43):
you know. So yeah, it's a tough one. But I
don't want there to be no hope. That's all because
I do really believe at the end of the day,
if people can realize that they are human and what
that really means and how fragile that really is, that
that perspective does, honest you probably provide enough hope for
(39:03):
it to kind of crush all that all that propaganda,
all the bad information, because it's love, you know, and
not trumps all that stuff in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, And when you when you're talking about that, you know,
there is a there's there's a view of everything where
no matter what what side you're you're looking at, if
you look at it with love, you can see that
all everybody's really trying to do at the end of
the day is show humanity on each side, you know.
(39:34):
And and then I can kind of step back, like
as you were talking, I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
you know these are I'm just I'm seeing people's eyes
and and I'm thinking, okay, like change of perspective, and
I think that that's you know, that's what's so wild about,
(39:57):
you know about photography really is it's perspective. You know,
everything's about perspective. And being able to show my perspective
and hoping that somebody connects with it is really a privilege, imaginable,
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