June 7, 2022 • 30 mins
Join your host James Brown as he investigates the world of transient organized crime families with former NYPD cop turned psychic fraud investigator, Bob Nygaard.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
In two thousand and six, I set up a stand
on a beach in Sarasota, Florida, saying spiritual readings for free.
I had just been introduced to dream interpretation through a
friend that taught me the Evangelical Christian language of dreams,
based upon the teachings of the renowned Christian prophet John
Paul Jackson. Questions like was your dream in black and white?
(00:30):
Were you're watching yourself? Or where you present? Where you're
gnashing your teeth together? Is this dream recurring or stand alone?
These were some of the go to questions I'd ask
people as they sat with me. There were drum circles
in the background, people dancing and chanting, Fires were blazing
on the beach, and my little sign somehow ended up
(00:52):
with a line of people looking for something. Now, with
over fifteen years of hindsight, I can see how the
questions I'd ask were vague enough to entice anyone in
search of answers. I'm now so far removed from the
Christian Evangelical dream interpretation world that I don't know exactly
(01:12):
what to make of it all. Because my desire to
help people was earnest, and the experiences I had with
the people I gave readings to seem to reson it.
That's why I was so intrigued to talk to a
psychic fraud investigator who introduced me to the underbelly of
transient crime families. This episode features the ex New York
(01:34):
City coup turned psychic fraud investigator Bob Nyeguard. After Bob's story,
we dive into details about how transient crime organizations operate
and how difficult it can be to activate the justice system.
This is the unimaginable. I'm your host and musician James Brown.
(02:05):
My name is Bob Niegart. I joined the NYPD. I
was assigned to the New York City Transit Police Department,
where I worked in the subways in hallm They handed
me a subway map, sent me out on patrol by myself,
no partner, with a radio that barely worked during the
middle of the crack epidemic in New York City. That
(02:27):
was my training ground. I subsequently transferred to the Nassau
County Police Department on Long Island, where I made a
lot of arrests, a ton of arrests. College as they say,
back in I made an arrest that changed the course
of my life. There were three guys that were sitting
in a truck and one of my neighbors came over
to me and said, hey, Bob, you know there's two
(02:49):
guys that went into our elderly neighbor's house. And it
was just a few houses away from where I lived
at the time. And I happen to have two partners
with me, and uh so there was three of us.
I see one guy in the truck pick up a
walkie talkie and the next thing you know, two guys
come out the front door. One guy goes up the
block one way and the other guy goes the other way.
(03:12):
So I said to my partner, Richie, rich you know what,
grabbed those guys in the truck. Don't let them go
anyway or hold onto them. And next you know, Phil
and I we go up going after the two guys
that came out of the house. Phil grabs the guy
that went one way. I grabbed the guy that went
the other way. Basically, what we did is we corralled
all five guys and we arrest them for burglary. Uh
(03:34):
it turns out that they were doing a home improvement
scam and they had been you know, burgerizing various elderly
people uh in the neighborhood. And they had been going
around from place to place using a sign that they
had on the side of their truck, a magnetic sign
and basically said waterproofing, water company or something to that effect,
(03:55):
which they can take off the truck if they need to.
And they had out of state plates, which is common
in this type of scain. So these type of criminals,
they travel around the country and they defrared the elderly
by doing these distraction type burglaries. And this was a
huge arrest. I mean it was on the Channel seven
Eye Witnessed News. It was you know, top story family affair.
(04:20):
It was about these guys that were all related and
they had done this this big burglary. So with this arrest,
I get a call out of the blue from a
man by the name of John grow and he was
a sergeant and ahead of a burgery unit in Baltimore, Maryland.
And John said to me, hey, Bob, you know this
was a great arrest you have here. And we have
a problem with these type of criminals because they're transient
(04:42):
in nature. They travel around the country and we're always
one step behind them because law enforcement isn't sharing information.
The elderly person reports the case, and then we never
closed the case out because these people are in the wind.
So John started a roof that started trading pictures and
information about these type of criminals. And he explained to
(05:07):
me that a lot of times these type of criminals
are part of criminal enterprises where some of the family
members do home improvement scams known as distraction burglaries. Other
men might do roofing scams. Others might do driveway seal
coating scams, or other guys might do auto body repair scamps.
(05:27):
There's a whole host of scams that these type of
criminals like to commit. So anyway, and then you have
the women who are part of a criminal enterprise bringing
in money for the families, basically who are committing fortune
telling fraud. And then you've got other women who are
doing sweethearts swindles. And that's where a young woman will
come up to an elderly man in a parking lot
or while he's shopping in a grocery store and say
(05:50):
something like, oh, it's so good to see you again.
It's so nice to see you. How's your wife doing?
And uh, you know the old guy will say, hey, listen,
you know my wife, the elderly man, and you know,
he's like, oh, my wife died six years ago. Uh.
And the woman will be like, oh, that's so terrible.
My husband died in a car accident a year ago.
Wouldn't it be nice if we exchange phone numbers? And
(06:11):
the next thing you know, you have a twenty five
year old woman who's exchanging phone numbers with an eighty
two year old man and she's coming over to his house.
She's cooking him a meal, she's sitting on his lap,
rubbing his leg, and next thing you know, she's got
him out to dinner, telling them how they should get married.
So you have the home improvement scams, you have the
driveway seal cooning scams. You have life insurance scams. You
(06:34):
have fortune telling fraud, you have sweetheart swindles. You have
all these different type of scams where people are bringing
in money for basically the criminal enterprise, which is a
family based criminal enterprise. After twenty one years of being
on a police force, you know, I had a nice
pension built up, and it was two thousand and seven
and I finally said, you know something, that's time to retire,
(06:56):
sail off into the sunset, head down to Florida, sit
on a beach, and go out to tiki bas at night.
And you know, I was a single guy, and I
just figured I'm gonna live the life O'Riley. And so
I put my papers in, retired and went down to
Boca Raton, Florida. And that's where the second part of
my life started. After about three months of sitting on
(07:20):
the beach, however, you know, and going to tiki bars,
I got bored and I went from being this active
guy who's out there, you know, making all these arrests
to just sitting on a beach. And I mean the
conversation amounted to, you know, I got sands from my
towel in my car and I had a vacuum it today.
What a pain in the neck. And you know, so,
(07:41):
you know, I'm used to talking to people about catching
someone's ra homicide and trying to make a gun arrest
or a robbery arrest, and now I'm sitting here talking
to people about how they got sand from their towel
into their car and it just wasn't working out. And I,
you know, I was really bored, and I said I
can't do this for time and thing. So I went
(08:01):
and I picked up a private investigator license and I
started to find money for people that will owed money
by the state and the federal government. But that was
boring as well. So all of a sudden, the big
moment in my life came along where I went out
to a happy hour at a place called the Neighborhood
Bar and Grill in Boca rat Tom and the bottend
(08:22):
today was a friend of mine, so she introduced me
to two attractive women who she was friends. But one
was a doctor and one was a nurse. So I
started chatting them up. You know, they learned that I
was a retired cop and they wanted to hear war
stories basically about the different stories that what I had
done as a cop. And I started talking to them
about confidence schemes, you know how I like the out
(08:43):
con the con basically, and because these people are so widely,
you know, using their brain to commit a crime, not
a gun, and it's a challenge trying to get them
arrested and convicted. We had a nice chat and some dinner,
and then we parted ways and I gave them each
my best was called and then a few minutes later,
I get a call from the doctor asking me to
(09:05):
meet her down at the gas station. So I thought
she wanted to hook up, to be honest with you,
and I met her at the gas station. She pulls
up next to me and she says, Bob, listen, you know,
I didn't want to say anything in front of my
co worker. And I'm like, yeah, okay, you know, I
get it. I understand, and she's like, well, Bob, the
thing is, I've never been able to tell anyone this before.
(09:26):
And then I started to think, well, this isn't going
where I think it's going. So she says, listen, Bob.
You know, I'm a doctor, I'm a medical doctor, and
I'm really ashamed and embarrassed that I gave twelve to
a psychic and you know, she ripped me off and
she told me there was a curse on me. So,
being that I knew all about this world of fortune telling,
(09:48):
fraud and psychics, it was like the perfect case had
fallen into my lap, something that actually interested me and
something that I could sink my teeth into finally, instead
of just sitting on the beach, you know, being a
beach bump. So I told her, no problem, I'll take
the investigation. So I looked the doctor in the eyes
and I said, to it, let me ask you something.
(10:10):
I said, that psychic that ripped you off? What was
her name? And then I rubbed my temples and I
was rubbing my temples, and I said it was her
name Marks? And she said, whoa, Bob, how did you
know that? She said, yeah, her last name was Marx
and her first name was Gina. She goes, but how
did you know that? And I said, listen, I'm a psychic,
(10:31):
that's how. And we had a little laugh and this
little joke. You know, you know, I figured it just
bring a little levity to the situation. She was so
upset and everything. And but it turns out that a
lot of times, you know, when the self proclaimed psychics
are talking to people, uh, they just drow something at
the wall see if it'll stick, based upon knowledge that
they already possess. And I also knew from learning about
(10:53):
these type of criminals that there's names that keep popping
up over and over again. Now we get into the investigation,
so I said, how did you find out about this
Gina Marks? And she said to me, well, Bob, my
housekeeper told me about her, and I said, okay, you
know what, Let's drive to your house. Let's talk to
the housekeeper, and let's find out how she found out
about Gina. So we go there, I interviewed the housekeeper,
(11:17):
and the housekeeper says to me that a bunch of
the girls at the new salon will all getting psyche
readings from Gina. So I ended up with five victims
in total, with a loss of sixty five tho dollars
amongst them. And I built the case on behalf of
those five women. So I said to the doctor when
I got the case, I said, listen, you know sometimes
(11:38):
in these type of cases, the psychic will try to
throw money back at the victims in order to make
the case go away in lieu of an arrest, in
order to get out from under the arrest when they
hit her in trouble. So and I said, I would
hope that you would turn down the money at first
and go for the arrest to make sure that she
(12:00):
gets fingerprinted, photographed, and to make sure that she has
a record so that other people can be helped and
that she doesn't just skate on us. From my research,
I found a guy by the name of Bob Norman,
who was writing a column called the Daily Pulp in
a newspaper called The Browward New Times, and he was
writing about Gina Marks and various members of her family,
(12:23):
and he had been writing about how she had been
doing similar types of scams but had always been skirting
law enforcement, never getting arrested, and always being able to
get out of the problem with the help of her attorney.
So I said to the doctor, listen, I hope that
doesn't happen. You know, when I take your case, I said,
I'm taking this case to try to help you get
(12:43):
your money back, also to protect society though, and you
know a lot of times we have a revolving door
justice system where these type of criminals just paid a
victim back what they stole and they never get in
trouble for the crime that they've committed, and it doesn't
help protect society at all. So the doctor said, no problem, Bob,
(13:04):
I'm completely on board, and everyone else told me they
were on board as well, the other victors. These psychics
keen on vulnerable people. They say to these people, Oh,
there's a negativity, there's a darkness, there's a curse. What
you need to do is you need to give me money,
because money is the root of all evil. And what
(13:25):
we're gonna do is we're gonna draw the evil away
from you using the money. And here in lies the scam.
When a person gives the money under those circumstances, the
person isn't paying the psychics a twelve tho dollars to
remove a curse. The person is just giving the psychic
the money because the psychic says they need to work
with the money temporarily to draw the evil away away
(13:49):
from the person out of a person, and then they're
gonna take the money to their church, to the altar,
and they're gonna cleanse the money and then give it
back to the victim upon completion of the work. What
happens inevitably is that the self proclaimed psychic will keep
the money and tell the person that they see that
the problem is far worse than originally expected and that
(14:11):
money is needed in order to complete the alleged work,
that more and more and more money is needed. So
this is how the scam works, and that's why you
have a theft of these situations is because it's not
about whether the psychic has psychic ability or not it's
that the psychic is making false representations. They're saying that
money is gonna be given back and it's only going
(14:33):
to be worked with temporarily to be cleansed. And then
they never returned the money. Not only that, they start
hitting the person up for more money, saying that the
problem is far worse than they thought. There's a lot
of hallmarks to these scamps. I mean one of them is,
don't tell anybody about the work that we're doing on
the work will fail. And you know, they want to
isolate the victim from friends and family because they know
(14:53):
they're the only with a vulnerable person. In any event,
getting back to the Gena Marks case, I ended up
building a CA he's putting it all together and looking
for all approvable lies. And then I ended up bringing
the case to the brow with Sheriff's office, and I
got a really great detective there, really good guy who
was willing to work with me, you know, took what
(15:13):
I gave him seriously. And but then a few weeks later,
just like my friend John grow had talked to me
many years before that about the impediments to prosecution, uh,
I get a call from the detective and he says, Bob,
I got great news for you. And I said, yeah, really,
we're great. What's up? And he says, well, Bob, I
got the whole sixty back. I talked to genus attorney,
(15:37):
and the family wants to arrange to get all the
money back. So I just need for you to arrange
to have a time in a day to have everybody
come down and pick up their money. So I said, wow,
you know something that's really great. I said, that's that's wonderful.
I said, but I got a question for you. I said,
when she getting arrested? And he said, well, Bob, I
don't think you heard me. I mean, the people are
(15:59):
all getting their money back. That is not going to
be in arrest. I got the whole sixty And I said, no,
I heard you. I said, but I don't think you
heard me when she getting arrested. And he said, well,
you know, the prosecutors are never gonna go for that.
I mean they're getting their money back, you know. I
said to him, what's the name of the prosecutor who
made this decision? You know, who's the one that told
you to call up the family lawyer? I said, you know,
(16:20):
and how how is this ever gonna stop Gina from
doing this again? If all she has to do is
pay back the money that she took without any repercussions.
It's like if you go into a store and your shoplift,
and you take three steakes, you stick them under your jacket,
and you do it forty nine times, and on the
fiftieth time you get caught in the parking lot, and
(16:42):
all you have to do is take the three stakes
out from under your jacket and give them back. Why
would someone ever stop shoplifting if they're never gonna get arrested.
So he said, well, you know, I can't argue with you, Bob,
but the prosecutors are never gonna go for this. So
I said, well, what's you know? I said again, who's
the prosecutor? What's the name of the prosecutor who told
you to do this? And he basically said, listen, you
(17:04):
know I'm not gonna throw anyone under the bus, basically,
so I said, all right, well, you know what, I'll
make some phone calls myself. So I end up calling
a brow would UH State Attorneys off as Economic Crimes Unit,
and I try to find out who is the prosecutor
that made this decision, and it turns out the guy
I'm talking tough says that was me. I'm the one
that made the decision. So I said, well, you know,
(17:27):
I don't think this is right what's going on here?
And uh, you know, basically it was an attitude of
this is all game, this is all ball, and if
you don't like it, you can go home. So I said, well,
you know what, you know, I don't think you're doing
your job. I don't think you're protecting society. And you know,
I do want to see victims get their money back,
in fact, in my clients. But at the same time,
(17:49):
I think, you know, as a prosecutor, you have a responsibility.
And he says, well, we have prosecutorial discretion, you know,
And I said, wow, you know what. Great. Absolutely, I've
heard that during the twenty one years that I was
a cop. I heard it over and over again. We
have prosecuted your discretion. You know. That's the old trump
card that you guys always go to, you always use,
(18:10):
and I can't argue with that, I said, but you
know something, I said, I just hope that at the
end of the day, you're comfortable when you exercise that
prosecutorial discretion. Because it might not be tomorrow, it might
not be a week from now, but sometime in the
next month, maybe sooner. You're gonna see that there's gonna
(18:31):
be an article and it's gonna be in the paper,
and it's gonna say that Bob and I got is
watching the wheels of justice fall off because you won't
do your job. And it's not just gonna say the
Broward State Attorney's office. It's gonna mention you by name,
saying you're not doing your job, so you can use
your prosecutorial discretion all you want. I just hope you're
comfortable with it. Next thing, you know, the guy hangs
(18:52):
up the phone on with this. I go back to
the detective and I call him up and I said, listen,
you know this is what went on. This is the
coversation I had, and I talked to the prosecutor. I
know who you talked to. Now I know why this
was done, but it's not right. And he said, you
know something, Bob, I mean, I can't argue with you.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue, which is say
you're wrong. So what he does is he goes and
(19:14):
he gets an arrest one for Gina rewalked right after
Christmas in the beginning of two thousand and nine. Gina
turned to something on the arrest want and the crazy
thing is is that the prosecutor's office was still hemming
and horn about whether they were gonna prosecutor even after
the arrest, and so the article dropped. Bob Norman wrote
(19:35):
an article. Sure as I told him. It said, Bob,
now God is watching the wheels of justice fall off
as we speak, and it said that, you know, Bob
didn't think it was right, and this revolving door type
of justice just shouldn't go on the low and behold,
the state attorney decided to charge ginniber remarks and she
(19:55):
ended up pleading guilty and was convicted and pay sixty
dollars in order to get probation. So she pled guilty,
So it was a successful case. When you're building these
(20:18):
kisses for victims of psychic fraud, what kind of false
representations are made or what kind of provable lies are
you looking for? When I talk about the false representations
and the lies, the provable lies. Okay, what I'm talking
about is, for example, let's say I'm doing surveillance on
a self proclaimed psychic, and the psychic is texting a
(20:39):
victim saying, Hey, I'm doing battle with the evil spirits
right now. I'm at the church. And meanwhile I'm watching
the psychic and they're at a casino. They're gambling and
they're pulling a slot machine while they say they're at St.
Patrick's Cathedral. So you know you have you have a
psychic who's claiming they're at St. Patrick's Cathedral and the
(20:59):
text in the victim that oh, I'm at the church
doing the work, and meanwhile I'm doing surveillance and I'm
watching the psychic ponal slot machine at the hard Rock
in uh In, Florida. I keep thinking about that detective
you find at the Briarwood Sheriff's office, Like you've got
that guy to do a one idy, Like he went
completely out on a limb for you. So here's what
(21:21):
happened here, Jimmy, here's what happened that the detective. Actually,
the detective made a really bold move, okay, because he
went and got a warrant even though the prosecutor. He
knew that the prosecutor wasn't on board, but he was
didn't do it. He was going to do his job anyway,
and so he was like, well, the police department and
(21:45):
the prosecute his office are and you know, he didn't
say this, but what I'm telling you here is what
happens in these cases is to prosecute his office and
the police department independent entities. The prosecutor can't tell the police.
You can't take your handcuffs out and make an arrest.
So when I was a cop, one time I was
arresting people for having false Social Security cards and false
(22:07):
immigration cards. At one point they had cards that we had.
The head was chopped off with a razor blade and
you could see it was obviously forgeries. You know, social
Security cards with the numbers were put on with a
typewriter and they weren't even even so it was an arrest.
It was a felony in New York to commit this crime.
And I was making arrest and my boss called me
into the office one day and said, hey, listen, you
(22:29):
know something. He goes, you gotta stop this, and I
said what do you mean, stop this? And he goes, well,
you know, I don't want you making this arrest anymore.
And I said, yeah, but it's Fords social Security cards.
It's Fords immigration cards. You know, I don't even know
I'm pulling people over. They've given me I D. I
don't even know who these people are. Uh, you know,
I'm getting a fake I D from somebody with a
picture with a fake name and a fake social security
(22:50):
and everything else. And he says, well, Bob, we don't
want to give the impression we're picking on a minority community.
And I said, with listen that what do you call
me a racist? I said, listen, you want to know something.
I go has nothing to do. I don't care if
someone's pink, purple, white, black, brown, I don't care what
anyone is. I'm just out here doing my job. I
pull someone over, I don't know who they are, they
don't have valid ID. They give me a fake I D.
(23:12):
It's a felony offense. I'm making the arrest. He says, well,
the prosecutor is never gonna go for it. They don't
want to prosecute this particular these crimes. So Benfie was
like a politically correct thing with the prosecutor's office didn't
want to prosecute it. And he happened to be on
board with that. And so he said to me, you're
not to make this arrest. And I said, well, that's
all well and good, but you can't stop me from
(23:33):
doing my job. Okay, I'm not I was. I took
an oath, I put my hand up, I swore to
force the law, and you can't give me an unlawful order.
So I went out the next day I made two
arrests for it. Okay, right after he told me, And
next thing you know, he took me off the street,
put me on the phones and maybe answer phones because
he said I would know how to play well in
the sandbox with others. So what you have here is yeah,
(23:55):
so but in any any event, what happens is as
a cop, what I'm trying and explained here is the
prosecutor doesn't have the authority to tell a detective or
a police officer you can't take your handcuffs out and
arrest somebody. The only authority to prosecutor has is once
an arrest is made, then the prosecutor decides whether to
(24:19):
prosecute that arrest. Okay, the police deal with probable cause.
Is their probable cause to make an arrest? If there is,
you make the arrest. It then goes to the prosecutor
who decides whether they want to prosecute it. Now, in
a lot of times, when you have, say to Broward
Shriff's Office economic Crimes Unit or any economic crimes unit,
what you have is the detectives are scared to take
(24:41):
their handcuffs out and make an arrest without getting the
blessing first from the prosecutor's office because they deal with
them all the time, and they don't want to be
taking time out to make arrest and do investigations where
the prosecutor is not going to prosecute it. They feel
it's a waste of time. But then what ends up
happening is they relinquishing their authority and they become political
(25:03):
hacks sometimes because they're not doing their job. And then
if there's some type of crime that the prosecutor doesn't
want to prosecute, they just tell them the detectives, hey, listen,
you know we don't want this. Don't give us any
at ease. And I never went for that, okay, And
so when I went back to the detective in the
Gina Marks case and I said, hey, listen, the prosecutor,
(25:26):
you know, I understand what he did. I get it now.
He didn't want to do it. He told you to
call a family to work it out that way. That's
what you did. I get it, okay, but that's not justice.
And he said, Bob, you know something, I agree with you.
You know, I can't argue what you want that point.
You know, I can't tell you you're wrong. So he
(25:46):
went and he got a warrant for the arrest of
Gina Marks independent of the prosecutor's office. He went and
got a warrant, which he put himself in a tough
spot there because he's doing something, in my opinion, that
he knows is going against the grain. You know, they
want detectives who are going to play ball. They want
detectives who anytime you get something, call us and ask
(26:09):
us for all blessing, basically, and then if you don't
have a blessing, you don't do it. And he went
against that. I have to say hots off to you
for flipping the detective at the Barbard Sheriff's office and
also already having the media behind you, you know, with
Bob Norman. You know, I already had Bob Norman lined up,
you know, because because he had been writing about this,
(26:29):
and you know, he was a real compassionate guy, great
reporter and compassionate guy who really cared about the victims.
And you know, I could tell by the stories that
he was writing that he wanted to do the right
thing and uh, you know, he wanted to see that
justice was served. So it was great that I was
able to reach out to him and I had him
all lined up. So when the prosecutor pulled the prosecutorial
(26:51):
discretion caught on me, I had the media and Bob
to back me up. So am I right? And thinking
that these types of criminals are Are you aware of
how the justice system works? So I mean what you
know what these self proclaimed psychics is doing. They're doing
like a cost of benefit analysis. They're looking at, well,
you know, I'm in trouble here, I'm looking at some
(27:12):
jail time. Uh you know, what is it going to
cost me to get you know, a good plea deal.
What's gonna cost me to try to get probation here?
Or one year instead of five years? So it's it's
basically they're doing like a cost benefit analysis on how
to get out of trouble, not that they're in trouble,
and how much is it worth to pay back to
(27:33):
these victims, and in this particular case, Gina Marks paid
back the whole sixty five thousand to all five victims
and she was put on probation. I can't stand here
and buy vulnerable people getting taken advantage of. And sadly,
it seems like these self proclaimed psychics they, I mean,
they have it done to a fine art. You know,
(27:53):
it's tragic when you have people that are listening to
the advice of self proclaimed psychics that are feeding them
a bunch of hogwash, you know, rather than using their
critical thinking skills. You know, that's what happens in these cases.
The victims often suspend their critical thinking and start listening
to the psychics. And because they're vulnerable. Yeah, I have
(28:14):
to be honest with you. I had never heard of
a psychic fraud investigator before I met you, but not
after hearing about the ends and nights of Hi. This
whole thing works. I can imagine the victim going to
the police only to not be taken seriously, which is
a real shame. The thing is a lot of times
people go to the police, they go to prosecutors, they
just get left at they get turned away. I don't
(28:35):
go for that, you know, I don't go for that
at all. You know, when people seek justice, they deserve justice.
Victims of fortune telling fraud don't deserve to have their
backs turned on them by the people that are supposed
to be helping them, namely police and prosecutors. If you
(29:00):
find yourself in a tough spot and you're looking for answers,
try not to abandon common sense, no matter how isolated
or embarrassed you feel, because once that's gone, you open
the door for people that pray on the vulnerable to
come into your life. I know from my own personal
experience that once those bad actors are in, they can
(29:22):
be difficult to get rid of. No matter how hard
you think your situation is, you can always make it worse.
The writer Laurie Muhre has a line in her short
story Paper Losses about a woman's discontent in marriage. She
alludes to the idea of choosing the best unhappiness. I'm
(29:44):
especially drawn to this because we all go through complex
hard times. Look for your best version of happiness and
you'll find it. And don't compare yourself to anyone. For
all you know, the person that seems to have it
all may feel worse than you do on the inside.
You've just listened to the unimaginable. I'm your host, James Brown,
(30:09):
until next time.
In two thousand and six, I set up a stand
on a beach in Sarasota, Florida, saying spiritual readings for free.
I had just been introduced to dream interpretation through a
friend that taught me the Evangelical Christian language of dreams,
based upon the teachings of the renowned Christian prophet John
Paul Jackson. Questions like was your dream in black and white?
(00:30):
Were you're watching yourself? Or where you present? Where you're
gnashing your teeth together? Is this dream recurring or stand alone?
These were some of the go to questions I'd ask
people as they sat with me. There were drum circles
in the background, people dancing and chanting, Fires were blazing
on the beach, and my little sign somehow ended up
(00:52):
with a line of people looking for something. Now, with
over fifteen years of hindsight, I can see how the
questions I'd ask were vague enough to entice anyone in
search of answers. I'm now so far removed from the
Christian Evangelical dream interpretation world that I don't know exactly
(01:12):
what to make of it all. Because my desire to
help people was earnest, and the experiences I had with
the people I gave readings to seem to reson it.
That's why I was so intrigued to talk to a
psychic fraud investigator who introduced me to the underbelly of
transient crime families. This episode features the ex New York
(01:34):
City coup turned psychic fraud investigator Bob Nyeguard. After Bob's story,
we dive into details about how transient crime organizations operate
and how difficult it can be to activate the justice system.
This is the unimaginable. I'm your host and musician James Brown.
(02:05):
My name is Bob Niegart. I joined the NYPD. I
was assigned to the New York City Transit Police Department,
where I worked in the subways in hallm They handed
me a subway map, sent me out on patrol by myself,
no partner, with a radio that barely worked during the
middle of the crack epidemic in New York City. That
(02:27):
was my training ground. I subsequently transferred to the Nassau
County Police Department on Long Island, where I made a
lot of arrests, a ton of arrests. College as they say,
back in I made an arrest that changed the course
of my life. There were three guys that were sitting
in a truck and one of my neighbors came over
to me and said, hey, Bob, you know there's two
(02:49):
guys that went into our elderly neighbor's house. And it
was just a few houses away from where I lived
at the time. And I happen to have two partners
with me, and uh so there was three of us.
I see one guy in the truck pick up a
walkie talkie and the next thing you know, two guys
come out the front door. One guy goes up the
block one way and the other guy goes the other way.
(03:12):
So I said to my partner, Richie, rich you know what,
grabbed those guys in the truck. Don't let them go
anyway or hold onto them. And next you know, Phil
and I we go up going after the two guys
that came out of the house. Phil grabs the guy
that went one way. I grabbed the guy that went
the other way. Basically, what we did is we corralled
all five guys and we arrest them for burglary. Uh
(03:34):
it turns out that they were doing a home improvement
scam and they had been you know, burgerizing various elderly
people uh in the neighborhood. And they had been going
around from place to place using a sign that they
had on the side of their truck, a magnetic sign
and basically said waterproofing, water company or something to that effect,
(03:55):
which they can take off the truck if they need to.
And they had out of state plates, which is common
in this type of scain. So these type of criminals,
they travel around the country and they defrared the elderly
by doing these distraction type burglaries. And this was a
huge arrest. I mean it was on the Channel seven
Eye Witnessed News. It was you know, top story family affair.
(04:20):
It was about these guys that were all related and
they had done this this big burglary. So with this arrest,
I get a call out of the blue from a
man by the name of John grow and he was
a sergeant and ahead of a burgery unit in Baltimore, Maryland.
And John said to me, hey, Bob, you know this
was a great arrest you have here. And we have
a problem with these type of criminals because they're transient
(04:42):
in nature. They travel around the country and we're always
one step behind them because law enforcement isn't sharing information.
The elderly person reports the case, and then we never
closed the case out because these people are in the wind.
So John started a roof that started trading pictures and
information about these type of criminals. And he explained to
(05:07):
me that a lot of times these type of criminals
are part of criminal enterprises where some of the family
members do home improvement scams known as distraction burglaries. Other
men might do roofing scams. Others might do driveway seal
coating scams, or other guys might do auto body repair scamps.
(05:27):
There's a whole host of scams that these type of
criminals like to commit. So anyway, and then you have
the women who are part of a criminal enterprise bringing
in money for the families, basically who are committing fortune
telling fraud. And then you've got other women who are
doing sweethearts swindles. And that's where a young woman will
come up to an elderly man in a parking lot
or while he's shopping in a grocery store and say
(05:50):
something like, oh, it's so good to see you again.
It's so nice to see you. How's your wife doing?
And uh, you know the old guy will say, hey, listen,
you know my wife, the elderly man, and you know,
he's like, oh, my wife died six years ago. Uh.
And the woman will be like, oh, that's so terrible.
My husband died in a car accident a year ago.
Wouldn't it be nice if we exchange phone numbers? And
(06:11):
the next thing you know, you have a twenty five
year old woman who's exchanging phone numbers with an eighty
two year old man and she's coming over to his house.
She's cooking him a meal, she's sitting on his lap,
rubbing his leg, and next thing you know, she's got
him out to dinner, telling them how they should get married.
So you have the home improvement scams, you have the
driveway seal cooning scams. You have life insurance scams. You
(06:34):
have fortune telling fraud, you have sweetheart swindles. You have
all these different type of scams where people are bringing
in money for basically the criminal enterprise, which is a
family based criminal enterprise. After twenty one years of being
on a police force, you know, I had a nice
pension built up, and it was two thousand and seven
and I finally said, you know something, that's time to retire,
(06:56):
sail off into the sunset, head down to Florida, sit
on a beach, and go out to tiki bas at night.
And you know, I was a single guy, and I
just figured I'm gonna live the life O'Riley. And so
I put my papers in, retired and went down to
Boca Raton, Florida. And that's where the second part of
my life started. After about three months of sitting on
(07:20):
the beach, however, you know, and going to tiki bars,
I got bored and I went from being this active
guy who's out there, you know, making all these arrests
to just sitting on a beach. And I mean the
conversation amounted to, you know, I got sands from my
towel in my car and I had a vacuum it today.
What a pain in the neck. And you know, so,
(07:41):
you know, I'm used to talking to people about catching
someone's ra homicide and trying to make a gun arrest
or a robbery arrest, and now I'm sitting here talking
to people about how they got sand from their towel
into their car and it just wasn't working out. And I,
you know, I was really bored, and I said I
can't do this for time and thing. So I went
(08:01):
and I picked up a private investigator license and I
started to find money for people that will owed money
by the state and the federal government. But that was
boring as well. So all of a sudden, the big
moment in my life came along where I went out
to a happy hour at a place called the Neighborhood
Bar and Grill in Boca rat Tom and the bottend
(08:22):
today was a friend of mine, so she introduced me
to two attractive women who she was friends. But one
was a doctor and one was a nurse. So I
started chatting them up. You know, they learned that I
was a retired cop and they wanted to hear war
stories basically about the different stories that what I had
done as a cop. And I started talking to them
about confidence schemes, you know how I like the out
(08:43):
con the con basically, and because these people are so widely,
you know, using their brain to commit a crime, not
a gun, and it's a challenge trying to get them
arrested and convicted. We had a nice chat and some dinner,
and then we parted ways and I gave them each
my best was called and then a few minutes later,
I get a call from the doctor asking me to
(09:05):
meet her down at the gas station. So I thought
she wanted to hook up, to be honest with you,
and I met her at the gas station. She pulls
up next to me and she says, Bob, listen, you know,
I didn't want to say anything in front of my
co worker. And I'm like, yeah, okay, you know, I
get it. I understand, and she's like, well, Bob, the
thing is, I've never been able to tell anyone this before.
(09:26):
And then I started to think, well, this isn't going
where I think it's going. So she says, listen, Bob.
You know, I'm a doctor, I'm a medical doctor, and
I'm really ashamed and embarrassed that I gave twelve to
a psychic and you know, she ripped me off and
she told me there was a curse on me. So,
being that I knew all about this world of fortune telling,
(09:48):
fraud and psychics, it was like the perfect case had
fallen into my lap, something that actually interested me and
something that I could sink my teeth into finally, instead
of just sitting on the beach, you know, being a
beach bump. So I told her, no problem, I'll take
the investigation. So I looked the doctor in the eyes
and I said, to it, let me ask you something.
(10:10):
I said, that psychic that ripped you off? What was
her name? And then I rubbed my temples and I
was rubbing my temples, and I said it was her
name Marks? And she said, whoa, Bob, how did you
know that? She said, yeah, her last name was Marx
and her first name was Gina. She goes, but how
did you know that? And I said, listen, I'm a psychic,
(10:31):
that's how. And we had a little laugh and this
little joke. You know, you know, I figured it just
bring a little levity to the situation. She was so
upset and everything. And but it turns out that a
lot of times, you know, when the self proclaimed psychics
are talking to people, uh, they just drow something at
the wall see if it'll stick, based upon knowledge that
they already possess. And I also knew from learning about
(10:53):
these type of criminals that there's names that keep popping
up over and over again. Now we get into the investigation,
so I said, how did you find out about this
Gina Marks? And she said to me, well, Bob, my
housekeeper told me about her, and I said, okay, you
know what, Let's drive to your house. Let's talk to
the housekeeper, and let's find out how she found out
about Gina. So we go there, I interviewed the housekeeper,
(11:17):
and the housekeeper says to me that a bunch of
the girls at the new salon will all getting psyche
readings from Gina. So I ended up with five victims
in total, with a loss of sixty five tho dollars
amongst them. And I built the case on behalf of
those five women. So I said to the doctor when
I got the case, I said, listen, you know sometimes
(11:38):
in these type of cases, the psychic will try to
throw money back at the victims in order to make
the case go away in lieu of an arrest, in
order to get out from under the arrest when they
hit her in trouble. So and I said, I would
hope that you would turn down the money at first
and go for the arrest to make sure that she
(12:00):
gets fingerprinted, photographed, and to make sure that she has
a record so that other people can be helped and
that she doesn't just skate on us. From my research,
I found a guy by the name of Bob Norman,
who was writing a column called the Daily Pulp in
a newspaper called The Browward New Times, and he was
writing about Gina Marks and various members of her family,
(12:23):
and he had been writing about how she had been
doing similar types of scams but had always been skirting
law enforcement, never getting arrested, and always being able to
get out of the problem with the help of her attorney.
So I said to the doctor, listen, I hope that
doesn't happen. You know, when I take your case, I said,
I'm taking this case to try to help you get
(12:43):
your money back, also to protect society though, and you
know a lot of times we have a revolving door
justice system where these type of criminals just paid a
victim back what they stole and they never get in
trouble for the crime that they've committed, and it doesn't
help protect society at all. So the doctor said, no problem, Bob,
(13:04):
I'm completely on board, and everyone else told me they
were on board as well, the other victors. These psychics
keen on vulnerable people. They say to these people, Oh,
there's a negativity, there's a darkness, there's a curse. What
you need to do is you need to give me money,
because money is the root of all evil. And what
(13:25):
we're gonna do is we're gonna draw the evil away
from you using the money. And here in lies the scam.
When a person gives the money under those circumstances, the
person isn't paying the psychics a twelve tho dollars to
remove a curse. The person is just giving the psychic
the money because the psychic says they need to work
with the money temporarily to draw the evil away away
(13:49):
from the person out of a person, and then they're
gonna take the money to their church, to the altar,
and they're gonna cleanse the money and then give it
back to the victim upon completion of the work. What
happens inevitably is that the self proclaimed psychic will keep
the money and tell the person that they see that
the problem is far worse than originally expected and that
(14:11):
money is needed in order to complete the alleged work,
that more and more and more money is needed. So
this is how the scam works, and that's why you
have a theft of these situations is because it's not
about whether the psychic has psychic ability or not it's
that the psychic is making false representations. They're saying that
money is gonna be given back and it's only going
(14:33):
to be worked with temporarily to be cleansed. And then
they never returned the money. Not only that, they start
hitting the person up for more money, saying that the
problem is far worse than they thought. There's a lot
of hallmarks to these scamps. I mean one of them is,
don't tell anybody about the work that we're doing on
the work will fail. And you know, they want to
isolate the victim from friends and family because they know
(14:53):
they're the only with a vulnerable person. In any event,
getting back to the Gena Marks case, I ended up
building a CA he's putting it all together and looking
for all approvable lies. And then I ended up bringing
the case to the brow with Sheriff's office, and I
got a really great detective there, really good guy who
was willing to work with me, you know, took what
(15:13):
I gave him seriously. And but then a few weeks later,
just like my friend John grow had talked to me
many years before that about the impediments to prosecution, uh,
I get a call from the detective and he says, Bob,
I got great news for you. And I said, yeah, really,
we're great. What's up? And he says, well, Bob, I
got the whole sixty back. I talked to genus attorney,
(15:37):
and the family wants to arrange to get all the
money back. So I just need for you to arrange
to have a time in a day to have everybody
come down and pick up their money. So I said, wow,
you know something that's really great. I said, that's that's wonderful.
I said, but I got a question for you. I said,
when she getting arrested? And he said, well, Bob, I
don't think you heard me. I mean, the people are
(15:59):
all getting their money back. That is not going to
be in arrest. I got the whole sixty And I said, no,
I heard you. I said, but I don't think you
heard me when she getting arrested. And he said, well,
you know, the prosecutors are never gonna go for that.
I mean they're getting their money back, you know. I
said to him, what's the name of the prosecutor who
made this decision? You know, who's the one that told
you to call up the family lawyer? I said, you know,
(16:20):
and how how is this ever gonna stop Gina from
doing this again? If all she has to do is
pay back the money that she took without any repercussions.
It's like if you go into a store and your shoplift,
and you take three steakes, you stick them under your jacket,
and you do it forty nine times, and on the
fiftieth time you get caught in the parking lot, and
(16:42):
all you have to do is take the three stakes
out from under your jacket and give them back. Why
would someone ever stop shoplifting if they're never gonna get arrested.
So he said, well, you know, I can't argue with you, Bob,
but the prosecutors are never gonna go for this. So
I said, well, what's you know? I said again, who's
the prosecutor? What's the name of the prosecutor who told
you to do this? And he basically said, listen, you
(17:04):
know I'm not gonna throw anyone under the bus, basically,
so I said, all right, well, you know what, I'll
make some phone calls myself. So I end up calling
a brow would UH State Attorneys off as Economic Crimes Unit,
and I try to find out who is the prosecutor
that made this decision, and it turns out the guy
I'm talking tough says that was me. I'm the one
that made the decision. So I said, well, you know,
(17:27):
I don't think this is right what's going on here?
And uh, you know, basically it was an attitude of
this is all game, this is all ball, and if
you don't like it, you can go home. So I said, well,
you know what, you know, I don't think you're doing
your job. I don't think you're protecting society. And you know,
I do want to see victims get their money back,
in fact, in my clients. But at the same time,
(17:49):
I think, you know, as a prosecutor, you have a responsibility.
And he says, well, we have prosecutorial discretion, you know,
And I said, wow, you know what. Great. Absolutely, I've
heard that during the twenty one years that I was
a cop. I heard it over and over again. We
have prosecuted your discretion. You know. That's the old trump
card that you guys always go to, you always use,
(18:10):
and I can't argue with that, I said, but you
know something, I said, I just hope that at the
end of the day, you're comfortable when you exercise that
prosecutorial discretion. Because it might not be tomorrow, it might
not be a week from now, but sometime in the
next month, maybe sooner. You're gonna see that there's gonna
(18:31):
be an article and it's gonna be in the paper,
and it's gonna say that Bob and I got is
watching the wheels of justice fall off because you won't
do your job. And it's not just gonna say the
Broward State Attorney's office. It's gonna mention you by name,
saying you're not doing your job, so you can use
your prosecutorial discretion all you want. I just hope you're
comfortable with it. Next thing, you know, the guy hangs
(18:52):
up the phone on with this. I go back to
the detective and I call him up and I said, listen,
you know this is what went on. This is the
coversation I had, and I talked to the prosecutor. I
know who you talked to. Now I know why this
was done, but it's not right. And he said, you
know something, Bob, I mean, I can't argue with you.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue, which is say
you're wrong. So what he does is he goes and
(19:14):
he gets an arrest one for Gina rewalked right after
Christmas in the beginning of two thousand and nine. Gina
turned to something on the arrest want and the crazy
thing is is that the prosecutor's office was still hemming
and horn about whether they were gonna prosecutor even after
the arrest, and so the article dropped. Bob Norman wrote
(19:35):
an article. Sure as I told him. It said, Bob,
now God is watching the wheels of justice fall off
as we speak, and it said that, you know, Bob
didn't think it was right, and this revolving door type
of justice just shouldn't go on the low and behold,
the state attorney decided to charge ginniber remarks and she
(19:55):
ended up pleading guilty and was convicted and pay sixty
dollars in order to get probation. So she pled guilty,
So it was a successful case. When you're building these
(20:18):
kisses for victims of psychic fraud, what kind of false
representations are made or what kind of provable lies are
you looking for? When I talk about the false representations
and the lies, the provable lies. Okay, what I'm talking
about is, for example, let's say I'm doing surveillance on
a self proclaimed psychic, and the psychic is texting a
(20:39):
victim saying, Hey, I'm doing battle with the evil spirits
right now. I'm at the church. And meanwhile I'm watching
the psychic and they're at a casino. They're gambling and
they're pulling a slot machine while they say they're at St.
Patrick's Cathedral. So you know you have you have a
psychic who's claiming they're at St. Patrick's Cathedral and the
(20:59):
text in the victim that oh, I'm at the church
doing the work, and meanwhile I'm doing surveillance and I'm
watching the psychic ponal slot machine at the hard Rock
in uh In, Florida. I keep thinking about that detective
you find at the Briarwood Sheriff's office, Like you've got
that guy to do a one idy, Like he went
completely out on a limb for you. So here's what
(21:21):
happened here, Jimmy, here's what happened that the detective. Actually,
the detective made a really bold move, okay, because he
went and got a warrant even though the prosecutor. He
knew that the prosecutor wasn't on board, but he was
didn't do it. He was going to do his job anyway,
and so he was like, well, the police department and
(21:45):
the prosecute his office are and you know, he didn't
say this, but what I'm telling you here is what
happens in these cases is to prosecute his office and
the police department independent entities. The prosecutor can't tell the police.
You can't take your handcuffs out and make an arrest.
So when I was a cop, one time I was
arresting people for having false Social Security cards and false
(22:07):
immigration cards. At one point they had cards that we had.
The head was chopped off with a razor blade and
you could see it was obviously forgeries. You know, social
Security cards with the numbers were put on with a
typewriter and they weren't even even so it was an arrest.
It was a felony in New York to commit this crime.
And I was making arrest and my boss called me
into the office one day and said, hey, listen, you
(22:29):
know something. He goes, you gotta stop this, and I
said what do you mean, stop this? And he goes, well,
you know, I don't want you making this arrest anymore.
And I said, yeah, but it's Fords social Security cards.
It's Fords immigration cards. You know, I don't even know
I'm pulling people over. They've given me I D. I
don't even know who these people are. Uh, you know,
I'm getting a fake I D from somebody with a
picture with a fake name and a fake social security
(22:50):
and everything else. And he says, well, Bob, we don't
want to give the impression we're picking on a minority community.
And I said, with listen that what do you call
me a racist? I said, listen, you want to know something.
I go has nothing to do. I don't care if
someone's pink, purple, white, black, brown, I don't care what
anyone is. I'm just out here doing my job. I
pull someone over, I don't know who they are, they
don't have valid ID. They give me a fake I D.
(23:12):
It's a felony offense. I'm making the arrest. He says, well,
the prosecutor is never gonna go for it. They don't
want to prosecute this particular these crimes. So Benfie was
like a politically correct thing with the prosecutor's office didn't
want to prosecute it. And he happened to be on
board with that. And so he said to me, you're
not to make this arrest. And I said, well, that's
all well and good, but you can't stop me from
(23:33):
doing my job. Okay, I'm not I was. I took
an oath, I put my hand up, I swore to
force the law, and you can't give me an unlawful order.
So I went out the next day I made two
arrests for it. Okay, right after he told me, And
next thing you know, he took me off the street,
put me on the phones and maybe answer phones because
he said I would know how to play well in
the sandbox with others. So what you have here is yeah,
(23:55):
so but in any any event, what happens is as
a cop, what I'm trying and explained here is the
prosecutor doesn't have the authority to tell a detective or
a police officer you can't take your handcuffs out and
arrest somebody. The only authority to prosecutor has is once
an arrest is made, then the prosecutor decides whether to
(24:19):
prosecute that arrest. Okay, the police deal with probable cause.
Is their probable cause to make an arrest? If there is,
you make the arrest. It then goes to the prosecutor
who decides whether they want to prosecute it. Now, in
a lot of times, when you have, say to Broward
Shriff's Office economic Crimes Unit or any economic crimes unit,
what you have is the detectives are scared to take
(24:41):
their handcuffs out and make an arrest without getting the
blessing first from the prosecutor's office because they deal with
them all the time, and they don't want to be
taking time out to make arrest and do investigations where
the prosecutor is not going to prosecute it. They feel
it's a waste of time. But then what ends up
happening is they relinquishing their authority and they become political
(25:03):
hacks sometimes because they're not doing their job. And then
if there's some type of crime that the prosecutor doesn't
want to prosecute, they just tell them the detectives, hey, listen,
you know we don't want this. Don't give us any
at ease. And I never went for that, okay, And
so when I went back to the detective in the
Gina Marks case and I said, hey, listen, the prosecutor,
(25:26):
you know, I understand what he did. I get it now.
He didn't want to do it. He told you to
call a family to work it out that way. That's
what you did. I get it, okay, but that's not justice.
And he said, Bob, you know something, I agree with you.
You know, I can't argue what you want that point.
You know, I can't tell you you're wrong. So he
(25:46):
went and he got a warrant for the arrest of
Gina Marks independent of the prosecutor's office. He went and
got a warrant, which he put himself in a tough
spot there because he's doing something, in my opinion, that
he knows is going against the grain. You know, they
want detectives who are going to play ball. They want
detectives who anytime you get something, call us and ask
(26:09):
us for all blessing, basically, and then if you don't
have a blessing, you don't do it. And he went
against that. I have to say hots off to you
for flipping the detective at the Barbard Sheriff's office and
also already having the media behind you, you know, with
Bob Norman. You know, I already had Bob Norman lined up,
you know, because because he had been writing about this,
(26:29):
and you know, he was a real compassionate guy, great
reporter and compassionate guy who really cared about the victims.
And you know, I could tell by the stories that
he was writing that he wanted to do the right
thing and uh, you know, he wanted to see that
justice was served. So it was great that I was
able to reach out to him and I had him
all lined up. So when the prosecutor pulled the prosecutorial
(26:51):
discretion caught on me, I had the media and Bob
to back me up. So am I right? And thinking
that these types of criminals are Are you aware of
how the justice system works? So I mean what you
know what these self proclaimed psychics is doing. They're doing
like a cost of benefit analysis. They're looking at, well,
you know, I'm in trouble here, I'm looking at some
(27:12):
jail time. Uh you know, what is it going to
cost me to get you know, a good plea deal.
What's gonna cost me to try to get probation here?
Or one year instead of five years? So it's it's
basically they're doing like a cost benefit analysis on how
to get out of trouble, not that they're in trouble,
and how much is it worth to pay back to
(27:33):
these victims, and in this particular case, Gina Marks paid
back the whole sixty five thousand to all five victims
and she was put on probation. I can't stand here
and buy vulnerable people getting taken advantage of. And sadly,
it seems like these self proclaimed psychics they, I mean,
they have it done to a fine art. You know,
(27:53):
it's tragic when you have people that are listening to
the advice of self proclaimed psychics that are feeding them
a bunch of hogwash, you know, rather than using their
critical thinking skills. You know, that's what happens in these cases.
The victims often suspend their critical thinking and start listening
to the psychics. And because they're vulnerable. Yeah, I have
(28:14):
to be honest with you. I had never heard of
a psychic fraud investigator before I met you, but not
after hearing about the ends and nights of Hi. This
whole thing works. I can imagine the victim going to
the police only to not be taken seriously, which is
a real shame. The thing is a lot of times
people go to the police, they go to prosecutors, they
just get left at they get turned away. I don't
(28:35):
go for that, you know, I don't go for that
at all. You know, when people seek justice, they deserve justice.
Victims of fortune telling fraud don't deserve to have their
backs turned on them by the people that are supposed
to be helping them, namely police and prosecutors. If you
(29:00):
find yourself in a tough spot and you're looking for answers,
try not to abandon common sense, no matter how isolated
or embarrassed you feel, because once that's gone, you open
the door for people that pray on the vulnerable to
come into your life. I know from my own personal
experience that once those bad actors are in, they can
(29:22):
be difficult to get rid of. No matter how hard
you think your situation is, you can always make it worse.
The writer Laurie Muhre has a line in her short
story Paper Losses about a woman's discontent in marriage. She
alludes to the idea of choosing the best unhappiness. I'm
(29:44):
especially drawn to this because we all go through complex
hard times. Look for your best version of happiness and
you'll find it. And don't compare yourself to anyone. For
all you know, the person that seems to have it
all may feel worse than you do on the inside.
You've just listened to the unimaginable. I'm your host, James Brown,
(30:09):
until next time.
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