Anita Hill Wasn’t Alone: Honoring Black Survivors, Then and Now with Jimanekia Eborn, Part I

On this week's episode of The Unwanted Sorority, host Dr. Leatra Tate, kicks off a two-part tribute to Professor Anita Hill, unpacking her life before the infamous hearings and situating her story within the broader movement to end sexual violence against Black women.

Leatra is also joined by Jimanekia Eborn, known to many as The Trauma Queen—a nationally recognized Sexual Assault & Trauma Expert, Trauma Media Consultant, and Comprehensive Sex Educator. Together, they dig deep into the emotional labor of "the work" (whatever that actually means), why grief work is part of survivor work, and the responsibility of showing up for yourself and taking care of yourself.

Tune in for part one of this essential series— and come back next week as we return to Anita Hill's story and catch up with Jimanekia, two years after her original appearance on the show. 

Resources & Mentions

Scott Neuman and Lexie Schapitl’s NPR article- Congress rolls back $9 billion in public media funding and foreign aid

Cory Turner on NPR’s article- How Education Secretary Betsy DeVos Will Be Remembered

Meet Anita Hill

Jimanekia Eborn's nonprofit, Tending the Garden. Looking to join the survivor space? Check it out here

Catch Jimanekia hosting the following upcoming events: 1. "Tell Me What You Like" book talk with author Katie Simon at Pleasure Chest Los Angeles (August 8th), 2. "Grief as a Survivor" virtual class with SheBop (August 12th), 3. CINTIMA's first annual Flicker Festival, a first-of-its-kind curated international festival celebrating intimate storytelling in film, learn more here

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, welcome to another episode of The Unwanted Sorority. I'm
your host, Leatra. This is a space created for and
by Black women, fem's, and gender expansive folks who've experienced
sexual violence. So whether you've lived it, love someone who has,
or simply want to hold space, you're welcome here. This
week's episode is a two parter, so we're giving flowers
to Anita Hill and very intentionally dragging some folks in

(00:27):
the process. And we're gonna start by introducing you to Anita.
It's important for me to lay that foundation for who
she was, not whatever the media's pin was that you
may have heard about her in the zeitgeist. So we'll
pick back up with more of her life and dig
a little deeper into the story that you may have
already heard in next week's episode. And speaking of dragon folks,

(00:51):
for our role call guest this week, we have Jiminikia Eburne,
who you may know in this space as the trauma Queen.
She's not afraid to take it there and and uh,
that's kind of why I feel like she's a great
match with Anita Hill's story. You'll hear exactly why this
was said during our conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
And we can talk about my ideas of healing to
the personally, oftentimes as a reminder.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
The Unwanted sorority is a space for community connection and care,
but it's not a substitute for professional mental health, medical
or legal support. If you hear anything today that resonates
in a way that feels heavy and encourage you to
reach out to someone you trust or a licensed clinician.
You deserve to feel whole and you deserve to be supported.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
This country has.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
A history of two diametrically opposed positions existing amongst the
administrative leadership in our nation's governing body. Today, we see
this within our medicare system, where our federal Medicaid programs
have consistently underscored the importance of medical and mental health
access for those in our country, and yet we consistently

(02:03):
hear about threats to cut federal funding for that program.
Or we have funding for programming that has historically supported
the growth and development of children in this country, like
PBS and NPR, who are receiving significant congressional funding rollbacks
to the tune of millions of dollars. And speaking of children,

(02:24):
another way in which the United States has doubled down
on its tendency to be loud and wrong. In that
regard came in the form of the appointment of a bleach, blonde,
bad wait a second wrong politician. It actually came in
the form of our blonde haired, barely qualified former Secretary

(02:45):
of the Department of Education, Betsy Devas as Corey Turner
from NPR's Morning Edition notes quote, what to make of
the tenure of US Education Secretary Betsy DeVos depends like
beauty itself on the eye of the beholder. And what
this former school director, Higher Education, professional and Title nine

(03:06):
research I believes is that her tenure was an ugly
one for this country. As a heavily critiqued secretary appointee
device the Secretary of the Department of Education, I can't
underline I title size involved that enough spent her time
in the position attacking public education, suggesting that guns belong

(03:30):
in schools to allow teachers to fend off bears, and
taking some of the most disastrous shots at federal protections
in education. Some of those shots included Title nine, which
protects students in faculty against sex and gender discrimination, and
she even targeted measures that were put in place by
the Obama administration for students of color to ensure that

(03:52):
they're not overly policed within the school system. And we're
seeing those same measures and the system as a whole
really under scrutiny and direct threat. Now with the appointment
of the current Secretary of the Department of Education, who
brings with her a whopping almost thirty years with the
top educational advocate firms in the country. Oh wait a second,

(04:15):
I'm checking my notes now, that was wrong. Linda McMahon
actually brings thirty plus years of experience with World Wrestling
Entertainment LLC, and according to public voices for public Schools,
this was when the organization was in its most profitable

(04:36):
but its most morally bankrupt eras of existence. So big
Yagg's here, folks all around, but don't worry. There's always
a one to help her out if things get a
little too complex. These transgressions by federal employees were not
exclusive to the threats coming from inside the house within

(04:57):
the Department of Education either. Back in nineteen ninety one,
America saw one of the most egregious cases of sexual harassment,
which helped to shine a spotlight on the issue as
a whole and open a pathway for others to share
about their experiences. But we saw that case happen in
real time with none other than the chair of the

(05:19):
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission at the time. In an article
from The Washington Post, Monica has described the day that
Anita Hill testified against then Supreme Court candidate Clarence Thomas
at his confirmation hearing. But I want to take you
back even further than that. I want to start with
who Anita really is. Born in nineteen fifty six on

(05:47):
a rural farm in Oklahoma, Anita Fay Hill is the
youngest of thirteen children. Her parents farmed their land and
raised their kids with a firm Baptist faith in high
moral standards. She was bright and hardworking, even becoming valedictorian
of her high school class. Anita was off to college
on scholarship and then Yale Law School by age twenty four.

(06:12):
Little did she know that the strong moral compass instilled
by her family on a small farm in Oklahoma was
preparing her to hold study in a coming storm that
was set on discrediting her name. After law school, Anita
entered academia in public service, both teaching law and working

(06:33):
at a firm in Washington, d c. In nineteen eighty four,
she left her career in the private practice to serve
as a legal advisor to Clarence Thomas, who was the
then assistant Secretary of the US Department of Education's Office
of Civil Rights. She followed his professional shift to become

(06:55):
the chairman of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission the following year,
where she became his assistant. A few years later, Anita
would follow her legal aspirations again, joining the faculty at
Oral Roberts University and eventually becoming a professor of law
at the University of Oklahoma, where in nineteen eighty nine,
she became the first tenured black faculty member at that institution.

(07:21):
By nineteen ninety one, she was continuing to progress in
her private, quiet life. That life would be abandoned by
that fall, when she made a choice that would place
her at the center of national reckoning. Anita would later
reflect that she hadn't sought the role of a whistleblower,
but when duty called, her conscience wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Let her refuse.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
As she told the Congressional committee who was seeking to
certify the nominee Clarence Thomas, her former boss as a
Supreme Court judge. She said, quote, it would have been
more comfortable to remain silent, but when I was at
to report my experience, I felt that I had to
tell the truth. I could not keep silent. On October eleventh,

(08:09):
nineteen eighty one, people across the nation remained transfixed to
their televisions as a then thirty five year old Anita Hill,
soft spoken but dignified in her brightly colored teal suit,
raised her right hand before an all white, all male
Senate Judiciary committee to testify. Anita then goes on to

(08:31):
describe the years of sexual harassment she experienced from Clarence Thomas.
This moment would mark the first time in history that
a woman testified about sexual harassment in such a high
profile setting. As notable as this moment would go on
to become, the experience of it in real time held

(08:51):
significance as well. Senators probed Anita with questions aimed at
getting her to describe in detail the situations she was
forced to endure in the workplace. Everything from hearing Clarence
Thomas talk about the pornographic works of one long dong
silver and pubic hair is being placed on cocains in

(09:13):
the workplace, just overall gross stuff. It was shocking to
hear this kind of discourse in the public at the time,
and yet, as Anita said, the story had to be told.
Anita's tone was matter of fact and even calm, and
it was a contrast to the circus that was happening
around her. She described the work police harassment that included

(09:38):
lude jokes and unwanted advances with poise. But the senators
were convinced that she had concocted this fantasy that's a
direct quote out of spite or delusion. For example, Senator
hal Heflin famously asked her, are you a scorned woman?
Do you have a martyr complex? And other senators just

(10:01):
simply believe she was lying. Senators like Arlen Spector and
Orrin Hatch suggested that she was doing it for publicity.
They just simply could not believe that this polite, demure
even woman could be a victim of sexual harassment. But
to be honest, even if she was loud and sexually forward,

(10:22):
she still wouldn't be deserving of sexual harassment in the workplace.
She wouldn't be deserving of sexual harassment in her life period,
no matter how she presents. Anita's response to folks like
Senator Hefflin's question was simple, quote, I am not given
to fantasy. I could only tell you what happened, and

(10:45):
that's on period, Anita. The gross misrepresentations of this moment
in time continued, with Clarence Thomas himself even calling this
a quote high tech lynching, baiting the black community into
this game of metaph oracle chicken. Do they side with
him accusing Anita of being a race trader for challenging

(11:06):
a black man as the first to rise to the
highest court in the country, or do they side with Anita,
recognizing her as a hero for black women's dignity. We
will pick back up with the rest of Anita's story
in next week's episode, so make sure you come back

(11:27):
and tune in for that one. You have one of
the best monikers that I feel like I've ever seen
in this space like period as Trauma Queen. It tells

(11:47):
you like who you are, It tells you how you're
showing up, It tells you respect me in this space.
So I love that about the moniker that you go by.
So if you wouldn't mind just kind of telling us
who are you in your own words?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes, I think stating that I am Jiminika first, like
my actual name, because people are always trying to like
break it down, and I'm like, no, no, no, this
is a strong name. There's only one of me. I
google it once a year just to make sure.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Heart heart say.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I am a daughter, I am a friend, I'm a lover,
I am a partner, I'm a student. I am a survivor,
I am a perseverer, I am a feeler and a healer.
I think those are many worries that can mean many
different things, and I think all of them are encompassing

(12:39):
of me to allow me to show up to exist
every day. What does that mean for you? Like, what
does it mean for you to exist presently? I've added
a new name, a new part of my life, which
is also a griever. I feel like I've always been
a griever my whole life, but I think it's more
intense now, and I think doing all of these things

(13:02):
is tiring and rewarding. It's scary, right, This work is
really scary in many ways, but I'm grateful for it.
Like people like I'll meet survivors and be like, oh
my god, I want to do exactly what you're doing.
And I'm like, what do you think I do every day?
And they'd be like, oh, you do this, and I'm like,
I'll do none of that. Actually, I don't know, And

(13:23):
I think every day looks so different and I think
that's also a fun gift for my brain. Like I'm
not a nine to five, same day kind of person.
I'm like, wake up one day, Oh, I have nothing
to do. I can take naps or another day and
it's like I have six clients today, Okay, buckle up.
And so for me, doing this work is very versatile
and like who I am, where I'm at that day,

(13:44):
and like working with people and where they're at that day.
It's really fluid, and for me that's fun to kind
of just like see what's actually happening versus a plugin
or I feel of the blank.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, So, like you said that, you have this new
way of identifying yourself because grief, I feel like, is
something that's heavy, right, trauma is heavy. What is it
like to arrive at the place where you're like, this
is who I am. This is something that I am
adopting as part of me.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I feel like each time I've done it, it looks different,
like adopting that I am a sexual assault survivor, Like yeah, no,
this is it, this is like a thing. And then
in the more recent years, like I've always been a
true crime survivor, but also taking that moniker on, like
you said, and like being in more true crime spaces
and working with those types of survivors has been eye opening.

(14:35):
And now I've always been a griever. My mother was
murdered when I was one. I am a rape survivor.
I will always say I've been raped once that I
will directly account for it. But I've been sexually assaulted
more times than I can account and I'm like, I've
been grieving all those parts of me. And so I
don't know if it's necessarily new. I think I'm more
so naming it now. And when you name it, you

(14:58):
give it power, And when you give it power, it
then feels more feel it feels like a way to
blanket some days, right, And I think that is I
think that's also what it means to be a survivor
in whatever aspect of where you are in life and
whatever you're surviving. And then you add the other things
on top of it. But sometimes the weight of that
blanket fluctuates, and so some days it feels like a

(15:20):
twenty pound day. Sometimes it's a forty pound day. Other
days it's like ten. You're like, let's catch like a
warm like a cuddle. Yeah, today it feels like a
fifteen pound day. And I was talking about therapists last night,
shout out to Betty, and I was like, you know,
sometimes I wish I wasn't as aware, Like you know,

(15:40):
they say ignorance is bliss. I get it. Yeah, that
seems real fun now, Like I want to know less. Yeah,
And that's what it feels like. Some days I'm like
I want to know everything. How do I help? I'm
going back to school, get this degree and do this.
And the other days I'm like, don't tell me that thing.
I act like I don't exist. I don't want to
learn any more. I don't want to see more sadness

(16:02):
or hurt or death in the world. Like I don't
want to try to think of a new way to
help fix it. I just want to But then that's
not in me, and then I'm like I'm mad, So
I'm to write a whole class song.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Rejection and the pendulum swings.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
It does, it does?

Speaker 3 (16:24):
So how do you take care of yourself?

Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know? Shout out to Betty is her name right,
Betty Ford? I got myself a kissie. Kizzy is mine?
Shout out to Kizzy, Hey, kiss yet Betty baby?

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Working?

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Maybe out here working so like, in addition to the
supports that we kind of recognize and have embedded into
those like more formal practices, how else do you take
care of yourself in doing the work, because, like you said,
it it changes what you need and it shifts and
but are there some general ways that you found that

(16:58):
have been kind of best practice is for you and
taking care of yourself?

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yes? Yes, I am a boundaries girl. I love me
a good boundary. Teach me yours, I'll teach you mine.
Having boundaries for myself and being like I can only
do this for this long, i can only be around
this person for this long. I'm about to be out
of my house this time. Sorry, I'm in said, I've

(17:25):
been like Cinderella lately all white John got to be
home by midnight. This was so fun and actually listening
to my body with what it needs. Like yesterday I
was like I had a sinus headache. I'm supposed to
meet my trainer and I'm supposed to do this out
like or you could just rest, and like giving myself
constant permission is something that people, I guess people don't

(17:48):
really think about, Like people like, oh, self care and
self soothing. I'm like, yes, but also you have to
give yourself that permission sometimes to actually believe it. And
so I've been giving myself permission slips to be like, girl,
you're done for the day. Tomorrow exists, m hm. Real
deadline is loose. Let it be loose tomorrow. Also, like
I know that my body holds so much, like right now,

(18:12):
I've been like there's grief in my belly and so
I'm like, oh, I know I need to get back
to acupuncture because that feels good for me and that
has worked. I know I need to go get different massages.
I love a time mufage help me flex relax my body.
I know I need to get back into meditation, like
I am a ten day silent retreat of Apostano girl.

(18:34):
Like I know the I know the meditations, I have
the app I can do it with the people, and
I know I need to get back to that because
I don't feel centered right now even in this work,
and I feel like the work even when you are
and we can talk about my ideas of healing or
the pistoning off. Sometimes even when you're healing, you can't
see me, but I'm clothing when you're healing. It's things

(18:58):
that you can be real good at it, and even
being real good at it is real hard.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Have you like really sat and thought about what it
is that has gotten you to this point? You know,
I hear what you're saying around the conversation healed, and
we'll definitely come back to that around like like the
ebb and flow of that word and that term and
what it looks like for us. Can you talk a
little bit about that part.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yes, it was forced.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Come on, forced to show up.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I love it, listen, but I forced myself. As I said,
I've done vipostna retreats or people that don't know what
that is. It is a ten days silent retreat. You
were in meditation the whole time from once you take
your vow of silence, you don't talk again for ten
days unless you like there's two big we can talk
to your leader or whatever. And in that time. There's

(19:54):
group meditations and solo meditations. That's it. That's all you
do it. You eat, you get some meals, get some fruits,
and you walk. We all look like zombies. But last year,
because I didn't do it this year. Last year, last year,
I did it and I had a moment and I
was just like talking to myself and I was like,

(20:16):
is this worth it? Am I doing the thing? Like?
Does it even matter? And I feel like it was
the first time I actually sat down and kind of
catalogued where I've been since I was twenty one when
I was raped. And then I was like, no, we

(20:36):
got to start furthers and back to that. I started
studying psychology at sixteen, and so I'm like, we got
to like even look at that to get to twenty one.
And then the twenty one is when I started doing
the work right. But then like I started doing the
work for others at twenty one, but I didn't fully
start doing the work for myself at twenty six. And

(20:57):
so when people go, oh, that's a different journey. When
everyone's like you have to heal yourself before you can
do anything, I'm like, I mean sure, I mean, you've
got to have some level of it, but to force
myself to sit down and go the work that you've done,
the things that you've created, the people you've got to touch,

(21:17):
the emails that I get that I've saved people's lives,
which will never be lost on you, which is still
very daunting, Like no, I don't think that'll ever change.
Even I was just in Atlanta at a conference and
someone was like, your work saved me. What when you
think you're doing the thing and no one sees you,
it forces you to slow down and look at yourself.

(21:40):
And so in that moment at the silent retreat, when
I was talking aboutself internally because you can't talk nobody else,
I was like, is this the thing? What am I doing?
What have I even offered? And I sat there for
an hour just running through everything, and then I was
just bawling, like I did it. It was like one
of those moments when I'm like, what the hell, Oh,

(22:02):
it's me just sitting here sobbing of like, oh, I've
done things, but I've been so busy doing the thing
that I didn't realize what I was doing, if that
makes any sense, Like you're just it's sometimes you're just
in it, and those are the moments that I need

(22:22):
to feel like any of it matters because sometimes, and
maybe you can relate, sometimes you just feel like you
just be talking to the air or you are creating something,
and you'd be like, I hope somebody needs it. I
hope my clients listen to the thing I said to
you know, navigate the next thing. And it's kind of
amazing and scary and hard.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
I'm just taking it all in because it resonates so deeply.
I have had similar moments in this.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
In this work.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But it's also like I say, in this work, and
I know you know what I mean, but I'll just
say it for the sake of those who may not.
But it's, like I said, it's professional but very much personal.
So in this work of just living and existing and
being able to show up in the spaces that we do, like,

(23:14):
we have to have those moments. And it's really funny
because I talk about it with my therapists and I'm like,
is it okay that this is like the external validation
that I need, Like I crave it so deeply. I
just need to know that like it matters to someone.
And she's like, if that's what you need, that's what
you need, and if that's what it takes, that's what

(23:34):
it takes. Because there are so many other times where
you just you don't get that. So when you do,
it matters a whole lot, and you know that that's
not part of everyone's that's not part of everyone's story
where they have the space within themselves to be able
to tell you and articulate for you how much you

(23:55):
have impacted. But you have to know that and carry
those moments where they do where people do have the
space to do that.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
This isn't that kind of work where it's like there's
a check mark, like it's not easily quantified. Yeah, which
is It's so weird because you're like, oh, I can
see if I'm making money, I can see that, and
things are if I'm creating something I created twenty but
this is so different and doing the work looks so
different for everyone. Like I also i hate I'm like

(24:24):
going through my face like doing the work. Yes, I'm
also tired of people telling people did you do the work?
I'm like, what work, bitch? What work did we need
to be doing?

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Which one is it?

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yes? Which book are you talking about today?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, but you're right, it is so personal.
It is. It's very much connected in us. Like, sure
there are people that aren't survivors that do this, but
I don't know men because I feel like it has
to be personal in some capacity, Like this is a
the work is motivated by trauma, this kind of of works,

(25:00):
you know, domestic violence, stalking, anything of this high intended nature.
It's motivated by feelings. It is motivated by emotions and safety,
all kinds of things. So it is so weird. Sometimes
I'm like, huh, this is the thing.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, I hear that one hundred percent. And I'm wondering
as I'm listening to you talk, is there any truth
or like connections to the experience of black women as
community organizers and activists in this sexual violence space? Does
that ring treat to you at all? Being connected to

(25:37):
your calling into this work and you being drawn to it.
Does the historical match what you like feel as your
truth for your story?

Speaker 2 (25:48):
In the beginning, I would have said no, but I
think is like looking where I'm at now, absolutely like
there is nomi without them, right, Like if I I
look at like Toronta Burke, right, like I've had the
amazingness to be able to have conversations with her and

(26:08):
be like, Okay, now, how did you do this year?
Because is wild, like how did you come up with
this kind of stuff? And this work is built on
traumas everyone else's trauma. We're just trauma climbing. But yeah,
I think this work has to it has to do
with seeing how people have done it. I am someone
that always says you don't need to reinvent the wheel.

(26:29):
You just look and see what's been created and see
what you could add to. I've had conversation with many women.
They'd be like, I've heard about you, girl, what happened?
Who told you? Did you hear talk faster? What? But
to be told by other black women, I've heard about you,

(26:49):
and I'm so glad you exist. That is listen, I've
done it. I don't need who you know. It's just
the power of other black ladies, like give you a
shout out. You'd be like, who, thank you so much.
I feel like that's an all race thing because I'll
here be like, it's different when a black lady say
it's true, it's that is true. And I feel the

(27:11):
same way with this work and the acknowledgement and also
acknowledging how hard it was for them, like it's hard now,
but like they cleared some of that snow path for
us to get through, like a lot of it, and
the violence that they endured to help people after the

(27:31):
violence that already happened to them. Like it's a cycle
that I am so thankful that, like the Anita Hills exists,
like to get up and to this day will be
someone will you know you're a liar? You lied, you
made all this collusion? What that that is? Mute? That

(27:54):
to me is like y'all just want to be du lulu.
That's it, Okay, lead into it.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
I hear, I hear what you're saying, and it resonates
so deeply because like it is that it's that verbal
hug of like I see you.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
You're doing it.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
And when that comes from you know, an older black women,
it just it feels so it just matters so much
and it feels so it's just so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
But what you're saying is.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
So spotle on it, like the blueprints are there and
it is cythlical. You know, we're navigating oppression in different
ways today, but it's the same old oppression. It's the
same old systemic oppression. It's the same old systemic issues
that have that black women, black fems have had to

(28:41):
navigate for decades, for centuries. Even it just looks a
little bit different. But thank god we have those blueprints, right,
thank god we have those those elders who have kind
of laid that path for us and allowed us to
show up in this space and continue to be vocal
and visible in the way that we need to be
now for these current contemporary times. And when we have

(29:04):
those who have done the work and who have been
there in the past still out there fighting and visible
today and still participating in that movement, it's just a
beautiful kind of intergenerational thing. And so yeah, it's cool
to hear you say that, like you have kind of

(29:25):
had this shift in how you viewed it and you've
come to that recognition now, is there anything that kind
of triggered that for you?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, And you may also to listen to others have
shared this work shows very lonely some days, Like you
might be in a whole room we all do in
the same research, but because it is so personal this work,
you feel very lonely, Like the things that you're creating.
You're like, I think this is like what I have
heard or this is what I do. Everything I create
now is what I think I have needed. And I

(29:57):
will tell people I'll do like a motivation money. I'm
be like, Bay, I'm so, I'm glad you feel motivated, honey.
But I was talking to myself. Yes, these classes, these
classes I've created, this is because what I needed, Like
I didn't have this information. And now as I'm getting older,
I'm like, yeah, but also I can look back and
be like, but there's books that I've read that fed

(30:17):
me to be able to continue feeding the next generation,
and so being like, let's slow down, let's review what
kept me fed, what kept me alive? Who provided those
meals for me? And it's black women, It's black queers
right like, it's black survivors. It is the ones that go, look,

(30:39):
I understand we already, we already have a struggle because
we're black and we are over sexualized, and people don't
want to believe us because it's so much easier to
oppress the strong because they know, let's be truthful, keep
it one hundred, keep it a buck. A powerful black
lady will change your life will change. Your life, will change,

(31:00):
your government, will change the room. And so people don't
like that, and so adding to it, but seeing how
people go, yeah, I see you don't want me here,
but I need to be here and I will be here.
That is who I think it's. I think it's a

(31:23):
gift to be this age. I think it's a gift
to be in this generation and seeing what the youth is,
which is also why I call people from the youth,
seeing what the younger generation is doing, and I'm like, Okay,
they're going, oh no, you're gonna hear me. Like we
started out, we started kicking the doors down. They brought sledgehammers.
They said, we don't have time for these boots. We're

(31:44):
not messing up our shoes. I brought a sledgehammer. You're
gonna listen because I said, So that's amazing to me.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yes, I I I so appreciate you saying that. What
has really been so amazing to see about your work
is you unapologetically centering people from marginalized identities and marginalized

(32:18):
backgrounds and marginalized experiences in your work. And I think
you've definitely touched on it. But if you want to
kind of share anything else, if anything else comes to
mind about what has it meant for you as the founder,
particularly of the Tending the Garden retreat and that I

(32:39):
think it's a it's a full nonprofit now at this point, right, yeah,
So like what has that meant to you and in
creating that space and why do you consider it important
to focus on survivors of marginalized experiences.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Tending the Garden came from the first day of the
first sil treat that I went to, and I held
it and created it in like eleven days. I created
everything I wanted in my head in silence. And for
me to create those spaces as to create a space
that I feel like doesn't exist. I feel like when
I've looked to different retreats or education or you know what,

(33:21):
what are survivors doing? It didn't look like me. Until
I found like the Toronto Birks and the other folks.
I was like, oh, there are people, who is this?
And then when you did see them, You're like, Okay,
you know what, we all survived in something. Let me
check it out. You didn't have nan, you didn't have
no melanation, you didn't know nobody. Yep, like you not

(33:42):
speaking to what it feels like to be black and
a survivor, to be queer and a survivor, to be
black and queer and a survivor to also have mental illness,
to be disabled, What is it like to be a
black trans woman when also, if we're gonna keep it
a the black community also was against you, like you
really fight and for me creating spaces where you don't

(34:07):
have to fight, that is where you get to navigate
what healing looks like when you get to show up
and be your full self in everything that we do.
Because we have different pillars. One of my board members
represents every pillar. So we had a class for sex workers.
Is sex workers each in it. I'm gonna pop in

(34:27):
and be like, here's the structure, blah blah blah. Right,
this is you. We're gonna have an event soon with
like Filipino folks. I'm not Filipino, but here, let me
come in. She's gonna take over. If it's about sis man, hi,
I'm here, They're gonna take over because I want people
to feel like they can exhale. And in so many
spaces we are walking around holding our breath, waiting for

(34:51):
the expert to drop. Just being outside right, You're like,
oh anxious, Oh they gonna run up on me. They shoot,
and they mad because somebody black today you don't know.
And then you have the addition and like are they
got a hard meat? What kind of harm? And you know,
living living in southern California. In my brain, if you look,
it's so nice, I'm like they Robin, they doing everything

(35:13):
just like everywhere else. It just looks more fun because
you're all looking at Hollywood, right, But to me, it's
a lot and a lot of conversations that aren't happening.
It's a lot of people that are overlooked. It's a
lot of silencing. And I'm tired of it. And so

(35:35):
I said, I waited for a while. I was like,
somebody else is going to create it. I know they
are just like my support group. Somebody else is going
created that. I don't need to do this. They got
it and then they did it, and then they did it,
and then I say, well, shit, I guess I gotta
do it. And I did, and it's it's really hard

(35:56):
also because I know I would be doing more. I
know I would have more money. I knew I could
do more things if it wasn't focused on marginalized folks,
and that is heartbreaking, and that is heartbreaking every time.
Every time I'd be like, oh, like, these are raggedy

(36:18):
people over here, not doing nothing, just sitting on money.
What are you doing with it?

Speaker 1 (36:23):
And not even having to not even having to worry
about if it'll come in or when it'll come in.
It will come in, it'll come.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
But yeah, it's important to me because those are my people,
right Like, they look like me, they struggle like me,
one hundred percent. No, but I do know what it
feels like to be alone as a survivor. I do
know what it feels like to be nervous to share
because of thoughts of outcast or fear. And I find

(36:55):
that a lot of marginalized folks also struggle in that way.
So to be able to go into a space, I
always say that being a survivor is like joining a
club that nobody asks to join, but we all in it,
and it's a space where you can go. Then it
goes to the spider net whe everybody's pointing at each other.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
I love it. The visuals are like amazing.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
And that's wheeople be like, oh my God, you are black,
And that's how I want to the garden to be.
That you can be like, oh I see you and
you look like me and get it now, versus like,
I hope nobody says not wild to me while I'm here,
not with your guard up, so again, it just takes
it back. I want people to be able to exhale
in a way that feels good for them and to

(37:39):
always feel seen, supported and heard. And those are the
basic principles of how I navigate work.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh that's amazing. I think I anticipate that will resonate
with many who find this podcast and to uh, you know,
kind of settle into this space because I want it
to also be that. I wanted to highlight the work
that people are doing so that they can find these
spaces that will unabashedly let them be them and let

(38:12):
them get from it what they need without any prescriptive
curriculum or you know, treatment plan or whatever that wasn't
written with their experience and their unique voice included.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
So absolutely, I'm also tired of spaces. I'd be like, no,
we do stuff for queer queer people, we do stuff
for black people. I'm like, that's an addition, why wasn't
it Why wasn't it just in there in the thought,
they're like, oh, well.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
We and you don't get a response because there's nothing
to say to that because they just don't. They haven't
thought that, they haven't thought about decentering themselves at any point.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
And it's yes, we are all survivors of different levels
of harm, different levels of life. But if you know
that these individuals have a higher chance of being harmed,
why not acknowledge them? Because again, you got to acknowledge
and be accountable for all the ways that you failed

(39:19):
as people, which leads to shame, and nobody wants to
be shamed. And so it's just kind of a shit
cycle for being honest until we do get other people
in those places, which we just have to make our
own as well. It seems like we so sweep and trying.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, we also have to take care of each other
in that. I loved what you were saying when you
talked about sometimes you can do more from inside than
from screaming loudly outside and trying to fight outside. When
you're in that, though, like you said, it can feel

(39:58):
very lonely, can be making really positive, really necessary changes internally,
but it can feel isolating and oftentimes does, and so
finding those who are also in that struggle, who are
fighting that fight internally, building coalitions, building connection, building support

(40:22):
is such a great way to just kind of keep
yourself cared for as you're doing it.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
And I think people forget and then yes, I agree
with that, But then sometimes people get in there and
feel like there's only one spot. We let's keep it
a buck. There's enough of us that are been harmed
and continue to be harmed. You don't need to be
just the one. Like we also don't need to burn
each other in these spaces, because, like you said, we

(40:51):
do need each other, which is also something I've seen,
like acclamation to whiteness that is also harmful, like just
could you, buddy, buddy? You need to also show up
for people now. As Mesa Ray said, I'm root for
everybody black. I mean most of the time, sometimes people
are a little wild, right, like, let's be honest. So

(41:15):
I think finding your people in this work is so helpful.
And if it's mental health, if it's sex said, if
it's specifically trauma, I have people in each area. If
it's true crime, if it's this, if it's when I'm
at my wrestling job. I have to find my people
to be able to sometimes navigate those what if and

(41:36):
those things that are thrown at you when you do
feel shook. Anytime you are working with other humans, things
are going to be thrown at you and you will
get you know, kicked off, shook if whatever. It will
be destabilizing and you do need other people outside of
yourself because this isn't a one person thing. This is

(41:57):
my thing about sexual assaults. This is a community issue.
I don't think it's a soble issue. Yeah, I think
this person may have committed it, But also where did
we all fail as a community? How are we upholding
this harm? Or is this person being protected? As we
know in many communities, the people that cause harmer then
protected and the victims are silenced. How is that helping people? How?

(42:20):
Why aren't we teaching people about consent and boundaries and
touch and how to receive rejection and you know, how
to say yes and no, how to receive yes and no.
Those are things that can be helpful, Like what a
no actually means. It doesn't mean try harder, that's not
what it means.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
It doesn't mean take a different approach, like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
It doesn't. What does it mean when you are rejected
around your peers and what does it mean to be
rejected by yourself? Are you going to act up? Are
you going to pick up a brick and hit somebody
as we've seen like, are you then going to feel
challenged like you got to do more? Are you going
to be like, you know what, thank you for your time,
have a great evening, Like I think I think all

(43:00):
of this is also a communal issue, like we should
also be able to go, hey, I was harmed here
without worrying about retaliation and being like this person's going
to be held accountable. And that's where I think a
lot of the struggle is inside companies, outside companies in
real life out like not outside lacked, rospacious, but whatever

(43:21):
that looks like. I think that there's a lot of
conversations that people don't want to.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Have absolutely And you said it comes down to education
in the way that we educate people, and I think,
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it
starts at young ages, like these abstibilities are not conversations
that are just supposed to be happening for the first
time when someone's entering college or because I don't think

(43:47):
they happen often in high school often enough, and so
you know, college first, your orientation is generally when most
of our young people are getting these conversations around sexual violence,
and it's really more from the pseudo preventative side of
this is you know, our title non coordinator good luck,
you know that kind of thing. So when you talk

(44:10):
about education, if you could just kind of share how
much education has played a role in both your healing journey,
but just in your way of kind of viewing this
space as a whole and it can be your education
because I know, like you've got to really like educational
background as well. I hear like some community psychology elements

(44:34):
coming out in the way that you like talk about
and think about, not even just the sexual violence piece,
but like the mental health piece, and that was where
I was drawn as well, the community psychology. So I'm
just wondering if you could talk about, like your like
how education has played a role for you, but also
kind of a little bit more into the what you
think needs to happen in educational spaces to better.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Better support or prevent ELSA.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
No, no, I think that the lack thereof education made
me want to know more because I feel like I
remember those sex classes. It was basically, you have sex,
you don't have a baby. Here's what some STIs look like.
Good luck? What we huh like? And that was in
elementary school, and I was like, nah, I no, there's
more than this. I got HBO at home. Nah, y'all

(45:23):
lie into me. This is not the full thing. And
so I think having for me as someone that's inquisitive,
because I stopped saying nosey, don't let nobody call y'all nosy,
you're inquisitive because I am inquisitive, it made me want
to learn more. It made me ask more questions. And

(45:44):
that allowed for these other doors to open. And I
think in education, now, knowing that California has sex and
it is mandated, but also knowing that no one is
checking on what kind of education these children are actually getting,
it feels empty to me because I know that there
are all these schools actually don't have it. I've taught

(46:07):
in elementary school, of middle school and high schools, and
I think when people people have these conversations like you said,
like freshman, you're a college girl. You grown now that
is eighteen years as survivors knowing people that do this
work no see us say, child sexual assaults for those

(46:27):
that don't know is very much rampant. That is when
people are harmed. And so talking about education, I think
it should start when you are a toddler. You can
know don't touch people. You can learn how to ask,
you can you know if someone wants to have a
hug or whatever. If you don't want to give a hug,
you should be allowed to say no. And so I've

(46:50):
done that in my own life with like my god daughters,
I'm like, do you want to hug? Do you want this?

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Like?

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Do you you don't want to be bothered? Okay? Oh
you want me to go away? Okay, great, let's have
that conversation, like, let's mimic what boundaries are now? Were
they pissed off four year olds? Yes? And did I care?
Did not? Now we are, oh my god, nine and eleven,
and they know boundaries. They know how to say yes

(47:18):
and no. No one is touching their cookie because they
know it's a volva. They my best friend was like,
we're not in here playing those games. I want my
children to know what their body pots are called. And
that even upset people around us, Like why are you
so upset with someone knowing what their body is called?

(47:38):
Because it's too much because you think vagina is a
bad word, Like I want them to know there is
a difference between a bolvan a vagina that they own both,
you know, I want if someone touches them, they were like,
oh they stole my cookie. Girl, when did you have cookies?
What kind of cookies? Why would your cookies out? Like
now we're distracting from the fact, now frustrating them and

(48:00):
they might not share what happened. And so when you're
talking about the ages started young, education evolves just like
the education we all have. We didn't learn all this
stuff in college in the fifth grade, right, They gave
us education at a fifth grade level so we could
get here. So it's the same thing with everything else.

(48:21):
You have those conversations, and because most of us didn't,
I feel like some of the work that I'm doing
is backwards, Like I feel like we playing catchups sometimes.
And I'm also so thankful to have created these spaces,
like even my support group that we have. I do
seven weeks on, two weeks off because mama needs a break.

(48:43):
I've had the ages from eighteen to sixty in these
spaces and they share back and forth back in my day, Well,
what's happening now? And to see that we are in
the same fucked up struggles is wild to me. But
then I also see parts of the journeys that are
like getting better. Yeah, And so I think education is

(49:06):
so important. Acknowledgment is so important, Accountability is so important,
And it's okay for us to have some shame because
shame isn't all bad. Use that shame as like a motivator,
you know. I always say that shame and guilt are
the good cousins. No one wants to hang out with.
Shame is what people put upon us, and guilt is
how we hold on to it. We don't need to

(49:27):
be holding on too. None of this releast all that
that's their right. But education, I am. I'm hopeful. I am.
I'm also still scared of these systems and why they
want to fight it so bad, Like what are you
trying to control? Why don't you want people to have
their own autonomy? Or is it you want people to
have their own autonomy when it feels good for you,

(49:49):
when it matters in the way that helps you. It's
a continued thought process. For me.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
It's a word, though, it's a word.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
The systems that in place in our society that are
there to provide us with autonomy and freethinking and supposedly
free will do the exact opposite when it comes to
our bodies and when it comes to our health care,
and when it comes to how we make choices around

(50:21):
our bodies and ourselves and our sexuality. To put it
plainly right, because at any age you have autonomy over
your sexuality, you have autonomy over your body. But these
systems that are put in place, such as education specifically,
does not do a great job at reinforcing that. And
then it comes down on the parents, the guardians, the

(50:45):
familial structures, the community structures around us to do that.
And unfortunately not all of our young people in the
society have that and are provided those spaces to be reinforced.
We should be able to rely on those institutions, and
we also should be holding those institutions more accountable for

(51:06):
showing up in that way.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
I wish that'd be so cute. I want to try that.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
We just had to say it now, we could do
it right but I love what you said about shame too.
I have like a little mantra that I say at
the end of these episodes, and it's specifically around shame,

(51:34):
and it's you know, letting shame go. But I like
that reframe of no, you can let the shame go
that other people have put on you, but you could
also use that shame to do what you need to do,
because I feel like that has one hundred percent been
a motivator in my life and how I can do
this work and continue to return to it because I

(51:57):
don't want anyone to not be able to tell their
story and not be able to have spaces to talk
about and acknowledge and articulate in their words what this
has been for them and what it looks like for them.
Because when we say it out loud, when we have
opportunities to say it out loud, even if it's just
to ourselves, you get to name it and you get
to decide what to do with it from there. Yes,

(52:20):
I love the reframe of seeing shame as a motivator
in whatever direction you need it to motivate you.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
I mean, it's here anyway mine as we'll use it
because it for the things that we need versus the
ways that it can harm us, because that's easy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
What I really appreciate about you is you approach this
shit like from a fully holistic perspective. And like, I
don't know if that was intentional on your part or
if you're just kind of like following your your interests
and following where you see the gaps to be, but
like you take on all these different assets of trauma work.

(53:01):
It's sexual violence, it's sex education, it's wrestling and mental health,
being like a mental health liaison in that space. It's
intimacy coordination, Like can you share what that has been
like kind of creating and crafting this expertise for yourself.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Okay, So for my Zodi out girls, I'm a Gemini
cancer ares. She's chaotic, she a little grounded, and she's truthful.
And for me, I have to do things that feel
good for me. If it doesn't feel good, I don't
do it anymore. And I think that also comes with

(53:44):
age and permission for myself. And so I see people
doing work all the time and I'm like, that is
so cool. I don't want to do that. Yeah, Like,
there's so many aspects of trauma work that I'm like,
that's not for me. Like my therapist wants me to
get a doct so you're like, why don't you just
come on? And I'm like, for what, Betty? You know,

(54:05):
I don't want to write no more papers. She's like,
but you're always doing a graduate certificate or something, and
I'm like, but that doesn't matter to me. That part
doesn't excite me. Being able to see the people in
different areas that people overlook because they seem good, like
they present, well, that's what excites me because I'm like,

(54:26):
I see past that because communication is only seven percent
actual words. Everything else is like body language and the
movement and stuff, and for me that is interesting. So
to be able to be in these different areas, it's
all the same work, but it's talking to different people

(54:49):
a little bit, or people that think they're different. So
when people come to me from like social media, it's
a different caveat. When I'm at colleges is different creating this.
I co own an intimacy coordination company. I'm still training
people to go out and do the thing. I don't
want to be an intimacy coordinator. Don't want to now

(55:09):
do I consult on things for film and media sometimes differently, yes,
but I want to help empower those people and give
them the tools that I do, like creating, and attach
it with my business partners with their tools to create
them to go do that thing. I can add in
that way that feels good. True crime like that, I

(55:31):
get that, Like you know, that is survival on a
different level. My mother was murdered in front of me.
Lad was one. That's a whole different brain set. People go, wait,
what I've been compared to Dexter the TV show. I've
never seen it. I feel like I tried to watch
one episode and I'm like, this, my man's boring. I
love laughter. I think laughter is so important in these

(55:51):
conversations because when people talk about it on like television
and stuff that we always look so sad. I'm like,
all right, there's this, w yes, what is this like
for me? Also, laughter forces breathing, and when you're breathing,
you're present. When you're present, you can actually be aware.
And I do that with my clients and they'd be like,

(56:13):
I hate you, Jim, You'd be so good. Sometimes I'm like,
thank you. But all of these things. And then my
newest the professional wrestling to see these people. Listen, it's
not a regular job. I don't want to go get
beat up every day people I know people like wrestling's fake.
Sure it's curated, but those body bombs, those broken ankles,

(56:34):
the injuries I see, I'm like, those are very real.
And that's on top of their everyday lives and where
they grew up then all the things that they carry.
So to be able to see a character and then
see this person, because I will ask them who are you?
Are you this person or this person? What do you
want me to refer to you as? And then we
work there. That is so fun to me because it's

(56:57):
also they are navigating two different worlds to just exist
in one. Whoo, my brain gets so excited.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
That's so interesting.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
So are you like having actual like sessions with wrestlers
in their character, like in full character? Is that sometimes.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
How They're like no, no, no, okay, we'll talk about
them in a minute. They'd be like, let me tell
you about I'm a fake name, so let me tell
you about Stephanie today. And there is no Stephanie ye,
but let me tell you about Stephanie where she's at.
I'm like, let's talk to step. But it's interesting and
I speak to the persona is because they are whole people,

(57:36):
but regardless of who they are here on television, that
is your star and like maintaining that balance. And I
equate that to how we mask up to navigate, as Oh,
let me full circle, you oo full circle on how
sometimes we have to have to mask up to navigate
just being outside, right, it goes back to how I said,

(57:58):
we are always waiting for the next place to drop
week go outside. I'm like, let me start thinking about
all the what ifs so I can mentally prepare in
case somebody want to pop out, or somebody want to
be racist, or they like this or this. Like I
equate it to similarly to that they walk out and
they are I walk outside the house ninety nine percent

(58:18):
of the time I'm where I'm looking across the room
because I can see them. I'm wearing some black boots
and that has become part of my armor, and so
for them, their outfits have become part of their armor.
And so that for me is like very similar and
just the ways that we choose to show up.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
So it's like, like you said, you are seeing them
as full humans and their full humanity. And I think
that's something that because my brother is growing up, they
were very into wrestling. I wasn't so much. I had
a weird like connection with stone Cold Steve Austin. I

(58:55):
have no idea why, but I got like a.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Lot of black ladies like Steve a bald head. I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
I'm gay as hell, so I don't. I really don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
I don't like that was day she'd be like, oh
I want to I'm.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Like, you don't knock it off, not to me, not,
don't tell that to me.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You want to lick his bald head.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Oh no, a baby, But that show Broken Skull Ranch,
I bought a T shirt like I was in it.
That show was everything to me for a minute. But
like you said, like just being able to connect in
that way, I really love that you, like you articulated
it that way, because I think we all have our

(59:44):
black boots, right, we all have our persona that we
are masking up and putting out and presenting. But when
you have someone who just lets you breathe, lets you exhale,
like you said, you you know, really focus and emphasize
cultivating that space and the attending the garden retreat and

(01:00:05):
in the group sessions that you have for survivors, when
you give someone an opportunity to just exhale and be themselves,
you were giving them an opportunity to take those black
boots off and just sit and be and let themselves, yes,
let their feet rest, let them show up and get

(01:00:26):
what they need from that space without having to feel protected.
And that's such a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
That's so hard. I was talking about therapist yesterday and
I'll be honest, she was like, I'm worried about you.
She was like, you just told me you're tired, You're
anxious about things. She's like, you need a vacation. She's like,
I need you to ask. She's like, I need you
to go somewhere where you drink, getting up, getting some water,
take a nap, drink, eat a snack, getting some water, drink. See.

(01:00:52):
I said, well, you really want me to turn up
Betty three drinks. But she's like to rest, Like, you
might not be actively avoiding the grieving, but like do
you make room for it? And so this is where
I challenge the listeners, like are you making room to
navigate your healing or are you just making it. A

(01:01:14):
lot of us just be making it because we don't
have time. But I think part of the growth and
the navigation of it all is forcing yourself to make
room for it and going a gird. No, it's fine,
let me sit and let me sit. Let me give
you twenty minutes a day, let me actually feel what
I'm feeling. Because we stay so busy, there's always so

(01:01:37):
much to do. Surviving is hard. Let's keep it a buck.
Surviving is hard. Existing in a space, especially that wants
to steal from you but wasn't built for you is
a mind fuck. Every day I'm like, wait a minute,
this is wild. But if I do whatever that is
offbeat thing that they're doing, it's ratchet. But this little
boom boop over here and caught a rhythm in her

(01:01:58):
whole life. She's rich off this. That's wild. But then
you also have to go. We don't need the water
dam version anyway. Let me focus back on this concentration
because this is where they pull from anyway, So allowing
myself to go, I take breaks, but I need more,

(01:02:25):
need to intentionally spend time and talking about the grieving
by Like I said, my grandfather who raised me my
dad he passed away, and I'm like, she's like, you
need to spend time any more. I was like, how
am I not? I'm always crying and she's like, yeah,
but do you do things intentionally to focus on him?
I was like, I got this tattoo. She's like, you

(01:02:46):
did get a tattoo? Okay, fine, but like do you, you know,
celebrate them? Do you do things he would do? And
I don't find that we even do things that we
would do for ourselves to grieve the part so that's
that we need the people and I think about as
a survivor, we grieve so many parts of ourselves. We

(01:03:08):
grieve the person we used to be. We grieve the
person that changed that day. We grieve the what if
so what was we knew was about to come or
what we thought was about to come. That's a lot
to grieve. And that's just one part. There's so many
things that we grieve throughout life and making space for them.
It doesn't feel like we're allowed to, but you have to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
And so for you, that just means sitting yourself down
and saying we have to make time for.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
This, yeah, and also being accountable And I know for myself.
Being accountable as hard in that way, and so I'll
tell people so I know how to work myself. I'd
be like I told my boyfriend and I was like, well,
my therapist did offtal certifications and he's like, okay, well
we're taking one in December. I was like, oh are we?

(01:03:59):
How are you figing with one? And then I was like, oh,
there's another one. I told my girlfriend that's Polly Amershall.
I'm not cheating on people. And she was like, well,
we're going to the spot next week and then we're
going to wrestling next week. That's what we do together.
And so it's like those moments help, but you need
a hard sit. You be a hard sit to allow

(01:04:22):
for the reset, to allow for the navigation of healing
and whatever that looks like. But it also takes honesty.
So to answer the question, it takes honesty.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
That's that's it, and that can be really hard. And
I know you are, like you said, you're you're going
through a grieving period right now, and maybe that's not
even the right way to say it. That is, yeah, okay,
so that that does feel true.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Take it like it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
So you were going through a grieving period, right now,
And I know you said that, you know you are,
You're still kind of it is a journey which you
were going through, and it's going to have it's it's
peaks and valleys and all of the above. It'll feel
differently for you depending on the particular moment, but being

(01:05:15):
honest during all of those periods may look a little different.
So I appreciate you sharing what your honesty, what your
truth has been. And I think that's wise words of

(01:05:35):
challenging people to do that for themselves and know that
you know one person's model may not be their truth,
and that's okay, but you can take little bits and
pieces from other people's journeys and what has worked well
for them to kind of craft and create what will
feel good for your spirit, feel good for your soul,

(01:05:56):
and and nurture you in the way that you need.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
So I appreciate you share. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Yes, I always tell people take what feels good for
you and leave the rest like there is no you
have to do everything. I say. Why Sometimes I say stuff,
I'm like, O G, you shouldn't did that? That was wow?
So like take what take It's all made up right? Yes,
like we are all just living our made up experiences
and if my experience feels an alignment, are parts of

(01:06:23):
it and you can go, oh, I'm not alone in that,
then that's what I want for you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Oh that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
So I just want to, you know, just kind of
like go back to something that you said before as
we you know, think about wrapping this conversation up, which
I've enjoyed immensely. You are just a good human to
connect with and I've appreciated the conversation. So you talked

(01:06:53):
about how I think you said trauma is like you,
I forget how you said it, that trauma is what's
the what's the quote that you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Say being a survivors like join in a club that
nobody has to be a part of what we're all in. Yes,
exactly a gang. Yeah, it's a gang or a sorority,
which is you know, like I said, for this, which
is how this show, the title of this show came about.
What does that mean to you? Does it feel good

(01:07:28):
to you to feel connected in that way? Has that
been helpful as you thought about your healing in all
these facets, right, you're healing through grief, you're healing from
sexual trauma, all of these different facets you're healing from
the loss of your mother, Like, does it feel does

(01:07:49):
this idea.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Of being part of a collective of people with shared experiences?
Does that feel helpful for you and thinking about your healing?

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Does it feel helpful? Sometimes? Honestly? Sometimes it also makes
me feel really sad that there's so many of us.
It makes me feel angry. I think it has a
lot of feelings. It just depends on where I'm at
in that day. When I do my support groups, I

(01:08:24):
a really started. I'm like, look, we a bunch of
stranger bitches. They'd be like, what, I like this what
you give someone a group of me? It's a bunch
of stranger bitches? Where you get to go? Oh, I said,
this is the space you get to just exist, where
no one's gonna question your journey, no one's going to
go We'll prove it. Who else said that? And I
think I get it feels sometimes like that Spider Man

(01:08:47):
or your point. You're like you two, Oh you. It
might look different in a different outfit, right, but it's
very similar. And I think it's important not to realize
that you are alone, even when it does feel like it,
And like I said, no one wants to be in
this club. This is not like something you like, oh
my god, we famous like that. Like I wish I

(01:09:09):
didn't do this work, and people go, wait what I said? No,
I hate that this work exists because there's so many
of us and there's so much to do. I wish
I was just baking cakes and I don't know, maybe
doing some other stuff. But that's not who I am
and that's not what I'm called to do. But I
am glad that there are spaces where we get to

(01:09:30):
find each other or as you know, there's there's water
cooler times like you can go and be like brou Okay,
here's some refoories and you're some connection. So yeah, I
feel a lot of things, and I feel a lot
of things and think, thank God it's for cannabis that
helps me kind of focus in sometimes and some mushrooms

(01:09:53):
because I feel so much. I'm always trying to do
so much. It feels ski, it feels weighted. Uh yeah,
I think it feels all of those things, and sometimes
all of them at one time. But I think the
best part is when you don't feel alone, because society

(01:10:15):
makes you feel alone the way that they look at survivors. Unfortunately,
it's not the same way they look at perpetrators, and
that is wild to me. They'd be like, let me
dig up her past. He was so nice, wasn't he
crost her heart?

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
He won all these awards. He was this acessful person.
You would never guess.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Or she or they you know, yes, them, you'd be like, wow,
or I've known them so long. They would never do that.
Here's what my grandmother, this my eldest child as I
call her, has told me my whole life, you will
never know anyone one hundred percent. You never will. You

(01:10:58):
could be within me your whole life. You will never
know any one hundred percent. And so that's on both sides.
I will never know a survivor onre percent, I will
never know all that they've gone through. I will never
know what a perpetrator has gone through. I don't know
how they got here to this new power dynamic, because
rape is about power, not oftentimes not about sex and
at all. And I'm thankful that I have other people

(01:11:22):
that get it and I don't have to keep explaining
where I'm coming.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
So feeling all of the things that wants about this,
I feel like that just perfectly encapsulates what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
To do this work.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
And again I use in this work not just in
the professional sense, but the personal sense of just showing
up for yourself, showing up for others, taking any part
in what it is to uplift our stories as survivor.
So I want to thank you for being a trailblazer

(01:11:59):
and creating these spaces for these people to find and
connect with one another and find places where they can exhale,
as you said, but places where they can just be
seen and be supported in what is just truly and
authentically them. So thank you for that, and thank you

(01:12:20):
for sharing all of this, all that you've shared during
this conversation, and thank you for thank you for being here.
I am so appreciative of Dominica's time and knowledge. This
interview was actually one of my early ones while it
was still in the NEXTEP fellowship. I really hope y'all

(01:12:43):
have enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I
want to hear how each of you is tending to
your own garden, what fills you up, How are you
actively pouring into your mind, body, and spirit these days?
So make sure you're checking in with us at the
Unwanted Sorority on Instagram and TikTok. Also write in an
email or send in a voice note if you have
any questions or comments that you want to see addressed

(01:13:05):
on the show, or if you just want to share
what has been working.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
For you to attend to your garden.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Jimminica also has some really cool upcoming events, so you'll
find them linked in the show notes and on our socials,
so make sure you're tapped in there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
And because I am.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Personally invested in each of you getting the support that
you need, I can't wait for you to hear what
Jimminique is up to next week, and there's going to
be some fun ways for me to share with you
all on how I plan on supporting a couple of
you and tending to your gardens, So make sure you
tune in. The Unwanted Already is hosted in executive producer

(01:13:47):
by me Leander Tate, our executive producer is Joel Money,
our producer is Carmen Lorenz, and original cover art is
created by Savannah Muler. I would also like to be
of special thanks to the I Heard Podcast Next Up
program for helping the show to life. Also all of
the guests who have taken a step in sharing their
story with you all on these episodes, and finally, to
all the members of the Sorority who will never tell

(01:14:08):
their story. We see you and your story matters.