September 4, 2025 • 77 mins
In this episode of The Unwanted Sorority, Leatra honors Rosa Parks’s lesser-known role as an NAACP sexual assault investigator and her advocacy for Recy Taylor, tying their courage to today’s movement and this episode's Roll Call guest. She also speaks with Dom, who shares how therapy, storytelling, and community have been central to reclaiming power after trauma. In Unpacking the Ritual, Leatra names patterns many Black women and femme survivors will recognize: the adultification of Black girls, stonewalling, and dissociation. Inspired by Dom's interview, Leatra works to reframe self-care as accountability, love, and liberation.
Join the conversation: @theunwantedsorority on IG/TikTok.
Resources and Mentions
Ryan Mattimore's article for History.com "Before the Bus, Rosa Parks Was a Sexual Assault Investigator: Why has History Left Out This Piece of Rosa Parks' Story?"
Laura L. Rogers (Deputy Director for Office of Violence Against Women): National African American History Month: Remembering Rosa Parks’ Work to Address Sexual Assault
Tell Me More (Podcast on NPR): Hidden Pattern Of Rape Helped Stir Civil Rights Movement
"The Black Girlhood Studies Collection" by Aria S. Halliday
Ellie Lisitsa's article for Gottman.com "The Four Horsemen: Stonewalling"
Tonjie Reese's blog post for California Partnership to End Domestic Violence "The War Against Black Girls: Addressing the adultification bias"
DoD Safe Helpline (877-995-5247)
Ujima: The National Center on Violence Against Women in the Black Community
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to another episode of The Unwanted Sorority. I'm
your host, Leatra. This is a space created for and
by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks who've experienced
sexual violence.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Whether you've lived.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It, loved someone who has, or simply want to hold space,
You're welcome here for this week's Flowers. For the Founder's segment,
I am very excited to shout out Rosa Parks and
talk about her in relation to this movement, maybe in
a way you've never heard before. And I'm also going
to be sharing the story of Racy Taylor and together
(00:37):
they truly kick down the doors for the civil rights
movement's entrance into this sexual violence prevention movement in the
mid nineteen hundreds. You'll also hear from Dom, a former
service member, who shares how freeing it can be to
tell your story and how it can actually serve as
a way to deepen one's romantic relationships with the support
(00:59):
of a connected therapist just as a caveat, and tune
in to hear why Dom believes this.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, you know, you think something happens to you, you
try to suppress it, and you think like, Okay, you're
good but you're really not until you do the work.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The unwanted to already is a space for community connection
and care, but it is not a substitute for professional
mental health, medical or legal support. If anything you hear
today resonates in a way that feels heavy, I encourage
you to reach out to someone you trust or a
licensed commission. You deserve to feel well, You deserve to
be supported. Over ten years before we know, Rosa Parks
(01:49):
is the face of an iconic civil rights movement where
she refused to give up her seat for a white
man on a bus in nineteen fifty five, Rosa Parks
made waves in another for refusing to let white supremacists
take up space in the sexual violence movement. Let me
take you back to nineteen thirty one, when Rosa Parks
(02:11):
was an eighteen year old young woman and she was
the victim of an attempted rape by her neighbor. Rosa
was quotas saying I was ready to die, but give
my consent never never Never. Fueled by her attempted assault
and the racial social climate at the time, Rosa Parks
joined the National Association for the Advancement of Color People
(02:35):
or the End of LACP in nineteen forty three, and
she took on her role as a sexual assault investigator
for the organization. Rosa's work led her to focus on
protecting black men from full sexual harassment accusations of white
women in lynchings, but the other part of her work
led Rosa to ensuring that black people who had been
(02:55):
sexually assaulted by white people could actually get justice in
the form of fair trial. Her work brought her to Abeville, Alabama,
in nineteen forty four to meet with a woman who
was seeking that very thing. Justice. Late one Sunday evening,
a twenty four year old sharecropper named Racy Taylor was
walking home from church with her friend Fanny Daniel. Suddenly,
(03:19):
a car with seven young white men approached Taylor and
accused her of attacking a white boy from a nearby
town and some sort of strange attempt at vigilante justice.
These men kidnapped Racy at gunpoint, threw her in her car,
and said that they would be taking her to the
sheriff to pay for what she had done. These young
men had other plans, however. They raped her then threatened
(03:43):
her with death if she reported the crime. Recy knowing
that she was not only not complicit in the crime
the young men accused her of, but knowing that she
herself had been victimized, confided in her father, who, along
with her friend Fanny, built a care case against the
young men with the local sheriff's department. This helped only
(04:04):
slightly because even though the sheriff, Louis Corbett, took Reesy
to the local grocery store where she was able to
identify two of the young men who raped her, the
sheriff simply confirmed that the young men quote were with
this woman tonight. When one of the rapists actually confessed
to the rape and named six other men involved, the
(04:26):
sheriff told them to get in the car and he
sent them on their way, and according to Reesy, she
didn't hear anything else from the sheriff about the matter.
News of this gross negligence made its way to the Montgomery,
Alabama offices of the NAACP, where they made sure their
best sexual as soul investigator, Rosa Parks, was on the
scene to help advocate for Recy. When Rosa Parks arrived
(04:49):
in Apel, the sheriff didn't respond well. He harassed Recy
and her husband and repeatedly drove by their house. Eventually,
the sheriff came into their home and demanded that Rosa
Parks leave town because he quote did not want any
troublemakers here in Abeville and also quote if you don't go,
(05:10):
I'll lock you up. This man wanted zero accountability for
himself and the trash behavior that he exhibited, just like
he wanted zero accountability for the young men who were
responsible for this gruesome rate of recy. Nevertheless, Rosa Parks persisted.
She returned to Montgomery, where she created the Committee for
(05:31):
Equal Justice for the Rights of Missus re C. Taylor,
playing a beautifully strategic and intelligent game despite the segregationist
policies at the time, which resulted in Reese's case receiving
national attention. By October nineteen forty four, the case was
a major headline all across the country. On October ninth,
(05:53):
nineteen forty four, recy Taylor and her team of family,
friends and committed supporters received the devastating news that the
grand jury would not indict the defendants. To make matters worse,
The Chicago Defender, a Chicago based African American newspaper which
was once considered the most important newspaper of its time,
(06:16):
reported that Willie Guide Taylor Reesey, Taylor's husband was even
offered six hundred dollars by the suspect's lawyer to silence
his wife and force her to drop the case. The
suspects ruling to pay one hundred dollars each if Reesy
would just forget about the rape. Rosa Parks was outraged,
(06:37):
and she led a movement for others to write letters
of protests to the Alabama Governor, Chauncey Sparks. In one
of the letters that she wrote on Alabama Committee for
Equal Justice letterhead, she wrote, quote, as a citizen of Alabama,
I urge you to use your high office to reconvene
(06:58):
the Henry County Grand Jury at the earliest possible moment.
Alabamians are depending on you to see that all obstacles
which are preventing justice in this case be removed. I
know that you will not fail to let the people
of Alabama know that there is equal justice for all
(07:19):
of your citizens. The letter was signed respectfully, yours, Rosa L. Parks,
twenty two Mill Street, Montgomery, Alabama. As a result, the
governor ordered another investigation of the rape. On February fourteenth,
nineteen forty five, a grand jury once again refused to
(07:43):
indict the suspects. These men, who on their own accord
admitted to raping Reesy Taylor, were never prosecuted. Reese never
received the justice that she was seeking or that she
actually deserved, but her story lives on in large part
as a result of the commitment of Rosa Parks, who
(08:06):
made sure that the law worked for her, and an
equal part to the tenacity and grit that Reesey Taylor
showed in making sure that she did whatever she could
to hold.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Her perpetrators accountable.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In fact, in twenty eleven, that Alabama Senate gave final
approval on the issuance of a public apology to Reesy
Taylor via a resolution that expressed the state's deepest sympathy
and deepest regrets for the handling of the case. To me,
the relationship between these two is a historical reminder of
(08:40):
the power of black women believing and showing up for
one another in times of crisis, and as someone working
with sexual assault survivors every day, I'm so grateful for
the pathway that Rosa Parks laid in how to get
shit done as a survivor. So we're giving flowers and
prey to both of these women for never giving up
(09:03):
in the pursuit of justice for sexual assault survivors, despite
political and social movements that want to do everything they
can to silence survivors. So there's maybe some transitional music
here or just the music that goes in the background. Next,
(09:24):
it's my honor to introduce you to a member of
the Unwanted Sorority who also embodies that mindset of accountability
and justice, and she actually, in her role call gives
us a masterclass on what it looks like to take
care of oneself while doing it. Dom is in her
mid thirties and she's a super dope cossplayer and gamer
(09:45):
with a son who's taking after her as a lover
of all things gaming and tech. And Dom is someone
I've actually known since high school. We grew up in
the same town, we played on the same sports teams,
we even went to the same college for undergrad the
college where we were both raped. And you'll hear why,
(10:05):
but I still am to this day in awe of
Dom and the way that she articulates what her healing
journey has been like, so let's get into her rocal.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, thank you. I'm excited to be here have this
conversation with you. It's so funny that every time someone
brings up an introduction, I'm like, oh crap, what should
I say? And this is something like who am I right?
Like is this a job interview? Should I? And I
always like give a rundown of the things that I do.
So that's actually something that I am working on personally,
(10:47):
is like, you know, tell me about yourself or your story.
But I mean for this, I guess we can, you know,
just leave it at the basics.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's one hundred percent fair. So I uh, when I
recorded my pie for this, like I recorded an interview
with myself because I kind of talk about my story
and how I am connected to this concept of the
unwanted sorority and so I talk about that, and I
think that there's a lot of validity to that, particularly
for Black women. I feel like a lot of it
(11:18):
is about accomplishments and achievements, and that's how we identify
ourselves and like what we've done, and that's not really it,
like that's not who we are, but that's just kind
of our default. A lot of times because for whatever reasons,
particularly like if we're working in like the types of
work environments that we're in, like that is who you are.
(11:39):
That becomes a part of your main part, a major
part of how you identify yourself is the things that
you've done instead of just who we are as people and.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know all that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So it's really, yeah, that's interesting. Thank you for saying that,
because I was also wrestling with that in my own introduction.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And so I have this man tour. His name's Peter.
I met him like maybe a month or two ago.
He we have like the speaking engagement at work, and
he was an executive for some cosmetic companies like I
think Mac, a few other ones, smash Box, and he
(12:23):
started out with this presentation on telling your story and
I was just like so captivated with the way that
he described himself. I'm like, you know what, shoot, I'm
just going to reach out to him. And a week
ago he responded back to me, so he's gonna mentor me,
and yeah, work on that. So it's funny just with
(12:46):
the timing of this and you know, you're telling me
introduce myself, and I'm like, this is something that I'm
trying to work on right now.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, that's cope, that's dope, Like if you like, it
would be cool to hear like a follow up, like
what what did Peter help you with in terms of
how you identify? So maybe that's something we can do,
a follow up one, not just like how do you
tell your story? What is your stuy? Absolutely right, and
that's a big part of like this too, is like
(13:19):
to me, this is all our story. This is a
part of our story. But it's not who we are, right,
it's not our soul identity, it's not it's not the
biggest thing about us, but it is about us, right,
And I think, I don't know if you feel the same.
When I think about this the unwonted sorority, I realize
my own connection to this larger group of women who
(13:40):
have experienced these traumas, Like how that is a part
of my story and how it's changed a lot of
my path in life in this really interesting way. But
it's not the main or most interesting thing about me.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, And I can say that up to a certain point,
I didn't realize that, And for the longest time I
tried to keep those things not only a secret from
like everyone around me, but for myself, just like suppressing
those things and just kind of putting them off to like, oh,
this was a thing that happened to me, nobody knows,
(14:16):
and I'm just going to try to move on with
my life. But then realizing that it just kind of
seeps out in places where you least expect it, like
it shows up and you know, relationships or I can
literally be sitting with myself and dealing with something that
I didn't realize from that and it's really just like
(14:39):
a process and I that I really didn't and to
talk about timing again. But it wasn't until you know,
you had reached out to me about your dissertation around
that time, maybe like a few months prior to where
I actually talked about what happened to me with one
of my friends and They're like, oh, yeah, no, that's
(15:02):
not okay, and I'm just like, yeah, I guess you're right.
And that's when I really started to come to terms
with like, yeah, these were very bad things. And even
then it took me a while longer to realize that,
you know, those things weren't my fault, and that was
(15:23):
an entirely different process of Okay, I'm grieving the situation
and now I'm working on forgiving myself. And yeah, you know,
you think something happens to you, you try to suppress
it and you think like, Okay, you're good, but you're
really not until you do the work. And so even
(15:44):
now I'm still doing the work. So it's a process.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, So what does that look like for you? Like,
what has the work been OLP therapy?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I mean, being consistent, being just conscious of, you know,
how I feel, like really just feeling my fills and
not suppressing them, being vocal about what I need, like
in terms of my relationship now, just getting you know,
my partner to understand and vocalize how I feel, because
(16:16):
the way that I dealt with my feelings before was
just like stonewalling or dissociating, like Okay, I need to
come out out of that because that's not healthy, but
really vocalizing like what I need for sure, because even
when I think about some things that has happened to me,
and I mean, you know, going beyond what I shared
(16:37):
with you with the dissertation, but there were memories that
I like really suppressed from childhood that very recently I
had to deal with at my parents, they celebrated their
birthdays together, so you know, my entire family got together,
my dad's side, my mom's side, which was a first
(16:58):
in our family. Creepy uncle that something happened in the past,
he was there, haven't seen him in years. And then
one of my brother's friends, who at the time I
didn't realize, you know, what he was doing to me
was wrong, Like he would force me to sit on
his lap. He was five six years older than me,
(17:20):
and then he would try to touch me too, like
touch my chest, and at the time I didn't realize
what was wrong because I was a kid. And again,
those are memories that I suppressed that for some reason
have been like you know, seeping out. But so dealing
(17:41):
with that earlier in the year. And then you know,
putting together this party for my parents and actually my
older brother he kind of helped steer it. But when
he reached out to me, he said, oh, and my
friend so and so was helping with the decorations, and
I'm like, oh, wow, So you know, I'm reliving these
(18:02):
memories and now I actually have to come face to
face with him and it's been years. And then my
uncle too, it's been years, so, you know, just being
really conscious of like, Okay, I'm not going to hide.
And my initial reaction was I'm not going to this party.
I'll just fake sick. But I'm like, and then what
(18:26):
would that do for me? And you know another part
of that though, and I know this sounds really crazy
to even think about how my thought process was, but
it was really like I didn't want to create an
(18:47):
uncomfortable moment, meaning that not only would it be uncomfortable
for me, but for them too, as in, like, you know,
like I did something wrong to be in that position,
And that's something that I'm really trying hard to work
on in therapy right now. Is Okay, I think a
lot of the time when something does happen to me,
(19:07):
I also take that other person's feelings into consideration, and
it's like, why the hell am I even doing that?
So sorry, I just said a mouthful and I probably
stared off a little bit of what we were talking
about initially.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Not at all, This is your story, this is your time,
But I just wanted to say to your last point there,
like I think that's so common, particularly for black women, right,
Like we're so used to maybe leading things, especially around
our families. We're so used to picking up the pieces
(19:44):
and making sure everybody's taken care of and making sure
everything goes smoothly, making sure, you know, our families are
getting together and doing what they need to do and
all that. But some of the last things that we
do is take care of ourselves in that and some
of the last things we do is prioritize how we're feeling.
And you know, so that I think is it makes
(20:07):
a lot of sense. It does sound crazy, It sounds counterintuitive, right,
It sounds counter to what we should quote unquote be
doing in a particular situation, is thinking about the other people.
But I think that's so much more common then it
than we think. So yeah, kind of going back to
(20:30):
what you initially said though, around like your your your
first instinct was to stonewall Your first instinct was to
like disassociate from it, remove yourself and just move move
on from it. And in thinking about that and thinking
about what your process was at the time, and what
you tried to do and maybe what you realized or
(20:53):
found didn't work for you in taking care of yourself,
what does it mean to you you at this point
to think about Okay, I have told my story. I'm
ready to tell my story. I'm ready to acknowledge it.
I'm working through it in therapy. And then on this
side of things, thinking about like being connected to this
(21:14):
concept of a sorority of women who've experienced these similar
traumatic situations in their life, Like what does that mean
to you to kind of go from those two polar
opposites Almost yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I mean it's freeing in a sense, you know, to
be able to well to go from Okay, I have
like this big secrets, like this monkey on my back,
like when I'm feeling this way or when you know,
these things are happening to me, whether I have I'm
filled with anxiety or I'm being depressed, like I can't
(21:47):
really share the reason, but to start vocalizing on that
and working on working on healing and just you know,
it does feel free in a sense. But also and
maybe this was actually around the time that you had
reached out to me and I shared, you know, with
(22:10):
you what happened to me in the past. I also
shared with my boyfriend too. And then once I moved
here and one of my things that I was like
really working on for myself was just like to have
a sense of community. And you know, I had friends, family,
(22:35):
but it was a lot of the friendships that I
had before we kind of grew apart. Just you know,
things change, I mean, life, you change, you grow, you evolve.
But what I what I found was that in those moments,
I didn't really have people that I can connect to
(22:57):
on a level of experience. So when I shared what
happened to me with my boyfriend, I feel like it
just opened up another level of him being more empathetic
to to what I've been feeling. And So for going
(23:18):
back to your question about you know, having kind of
like a community or you know, kind of like this sorority,
I feel like it's just important to be able to
have that community of people that have shared you know
that And I hate to kind of like, you know,
(23:38):
categorize like this as like, oh, yeah, this thing happened,
like it's this you know, positive, good thing, but just
having a community of people who have shared similar experiences
as you just the importance of that to just be
able to you know, understand. And I think a lot
of the times that when people are sharing their stuff
(24:00):
or is with other people who don't have similar experiences
there may be some disconnect there, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Absolutely, I think there's that that kind of automatic built
in trust that comes with knowing that a person has
a shared or similar experience, So that about one makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Sorry, a lot of the times I feel like I
may be talking in circles and coming around and trying to,
you know, get back to the topic. So you may
have to roll me in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Look, there's no reeling in, like this is this is truly,
this is truly just whatever, because a lot of it
can be edited out anyway, right, So, like, honestly, I'm
not worried. That's the last thing on my mind. I
feel like I talk in circles constantly when when when
getting into this, because it is it's still so new. Yeah,
(24:57):
and even for me it's very new. So I don't
know how much I shared with you when I was
doing the dissertation research, but that was doing this research
is what prompted me to talk about it. It was
my first time diving into it, and yeah, there was
(25:18):
a lot of kind of figuring out.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What the right path is to get there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
But yeah, it is that I think that is just
that's part of the work and it's it's not a
linear The healing is not linear. It is going to
be up and down. And you know sometimes you'll come
back to uh, you know, the same points and see
it differently after you experience some things. So yeah, it
(25:46):
doesn't it. That's that's I think what I love about this,
this sorority concept because it's not about anything being perfect
or any of us trying to fit ourselves into a
particular mold or model or theory even. But like our
stories are unique. Our stories are what our stories are.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The way that we come at this is going to
be so totally different. But I think that's also the
beauty of just being able to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, And I like when you said that you know,
it's not going to be perfect. And you know, when
I initially started going to therapy, my kind of outlook
on the end game of therapy was like, all right,
and I'll be perfectly fine. And that's that's never the case.
(26:43):
It's just we would go through these little ten sessions, yes, yes,
and I'm like, this is a life long like a thing,
I mean, and just this life and like there's perfection
is impossible. I mean, you know things life you go
through the ebbs and flows, but just my entire perspective
(27:06):
of Okay, yep, these sessions and then after that, I'll
see you later, like nope, yeah, no peace, I'm going
in a world here.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
But how little we realized before we get into it. Yeah, Yeah,
it's definitely it's a life long it's a life long.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, definitely a lot of work, a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And so I think that's also like that takes me
to my next thing that I want to kind of
get your perspective on, is we we talk about it
in therapy, right, Like there's a therapeutic context in which
we can have these conversations around our experiences. But it's
a totally different thing to talk about it in like
(28:04):
a more casual way, you know, like even going into
it from a research perspective of like being you know,
a participant in a research study on this or for
myself building a research study on this.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What was that? What did that look.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Like for you to be like, Okay, you know, maybe
I am because you actually we did that interview before
you started therapy around it, right, Yeah, So I guess
maybe that was this question is reversed. So you talked
about it in this more casual way with your friend
and your partner and then with me during this study.
(28:43):
Did you have to did you feel like you had
to switch or change the way that you talked about
it when you started going to therapy for it.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So kind of when I shared with a friend, I
think that really set me up and a better place
to be able to speak with you. And it also
helped because I you known prior to that, but just
being able to kind of express myself to somebody that
(29:12):
I was comfortable with, and then you know, sharing that
same story with you again, it helped me to then
be able to articulate that better with a therapist and
then like really start to you know, like it helped
me be more confident too, because the first time I
shared that, it was just and I just remember just
(29:35):
like speaking like kind of like being robotic in a sense,
and just because it was just again a thing that happened,
and I was just trying to you know, put that
back into this place where I kept it. And then yeah,
(29:56):
sharing that with you, I felt like I was a
little more fluent and you know divulging information. And then
you know, going to therapy, like it helped, Like there
were kind of like steps essentially, But I think that
and for me, it was better to just have that
you know, initial conversation with someone I knew and I
(30:20):
trusted to then share that with a stranger. I mean, yeah,
you know, of course therapists, you know, they keep things confidential,
but it's still someone that you need to work on
building a relationship with. So I think I think it
was you know, easier for me in that sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, that makes sense, almost like peeling back the layers
until you can get to the root of it and
that's where you may, you know, how sound more success
in there. Yeah, And I know some people, you know,
they they find more success in peeling back those layers
in therapy. So it's all, you know, it's all individualized.
(31:06):
But yeah, that definitely makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, going back to what you said,
it is very individualized depending on you know, who you are,
what your comfort level is like, so it's different.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So we we've talked about like some of the different experiences.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That you've had, like in.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Childhood, and you know, kind of coming to terms with
maybe what that's looked like for you, particularly around the
people who were causing harm. Being so close to you
at that time. We talked about, you know, what it
was like with your experience in college. But the one
(31:54):
thing that I also found really interesting when we did
the Dissertaine interview was when you're talking about like your
experience in the military and like some of what you've
seen in that in that context, so I don't are you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Still serving a service eight years and I was actually
thinking about re enlisting two years ago, did the paperwork
for the process and getting ready to you know, go
do the physical, and then I just couldn't go through
with a Yeah, it's a total lifestyle change.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, So that's actually that's what my I don't know
if you know, but that's what my current job is.
So I'm a SARK, a sexual assault Response coordinator for
a military installation. And it is wild, yep, but it's
it's wild. Like thinking about it from like a even
(33:00):
a program perspective, I'm like, you would think the military
would have it a little bit more together than they
actually do.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Know, And then you go on some of these training
bases and I mean, for the most part you're dealing
with kids fresh out of high school. Basic training. That
was like my first experience. I was seventeen going into
the twelfth grade. It was the summer, and I experienced
my first assault. I was like a few weeks in,
(33:31):
a few weeks in into the training Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Yeah,
it was a white guy, his last name same as mine,
and so he would, you know, he would be around
(33:52):
my squad or a platoon and he I would always
like look at my name badge and then looked down
at his you know, trying to be funny, and he
would say, like, there's no rate we related. I can't
be related to you because he's white and I'm black.
So I mean I can clearly draw that conclusion. And
he would you know, get people to laugh and all
(34:14):
of that. But yeah, you I mean, just being seventeen,
being young, naive, and we were. He actually tried to
excuse him, like slamming me into a wall in front
of him, and I mean there were over a hundred
(34:35):
people who saw it, but he really tried to excuse
it and say, oh, it was a training exercise. And
so they ended up removing him from the unit I
was in, to a unit that was maybe like a
little ways down from where I was staying. And so
(34:58):
a few weeks after I ended up reporting him, I
shared with a friend. She brought me to some lieutenant
and so, you know, I was explaining to him the
comments that he was making, and you know what had happened,
how he slammed me into a wall, and you know,
we got some witnesses, a you know all you know,
(35:22):
agreed to the same story. And a few weeks later,
they send me me and my you know, whole squad
or whatever to this other part of Fort Jackson. And
we were training on like different stances with our M
(35:43):
sixteen's are our weapons, and so we were rotating in
like these circles. So there's an instructor, you rotate, there's
another instructor, and lo and behold who is the instructor.
It's this guy. And I'm like, get the like out
of all the places, thousands of people, thousands of trainings,
(36:06):
you put me in this. And I don't think that
will done on purpose, I really don't. But he noticed me,
and he said and so he wanted to use me
as an example. So he like he pointed at me
and exhered me to come to him. He was in
the middle. We're all out in the woods, bind you
and so everyone's around the circle, told me to come here,
(36:29):
and I just did it, didn't even hesitate, and it
was like almost like an outer body experience. I'm just like,
is this really happening? So he tells me to get.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Because what are you going to do in that situation,
like say no? And that's that's not a part of
that military culture.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You don't say no. You can't. You absolutely know you can't,
because I mean like if you're disregarding an order, I mean,
that couldn't just look like, you know, you being reprimanded,
so physical punishment, which you don't want. And it's ninety
degrees on a typical day in the summer of South
Carolina where we were at. I mean like people have
died on that base, like I heard stories, and this
(37:11):
was actually like older people that were still there that
you know, would say, you know, if somebody disobeyed in order,
they would take them out in a wooded area.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
As like quote unquote for disobeying.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, so that's kind of like what you know, I
was left with in terms of like, Okay, I know
I can't really disobey any orders. But going back to
this guy, so he had me get on my knees
and like hold my weapon up to where the butt
of the gun was like in my shoulder and look
through the scope. And then he just shoved the shit
(37:46):
out of me, and I just fell in the ground.
And then he made a point to say, and that
is what you shouldn't do. You shouldn't brace yourself like that.
And then he told me to go. So he made
a point to try to act like you know, and
this was the excuse that he used when he slammed
me against the wall. It was just training. So now
(38:07):
if I said that, you know, he did this thing
to me again, he clearly made it a point in
front of all these people that it was for training.
So I couldn't say anything that second time, and I didn't.
I just left it alone. I don't even know what
to say.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
I mean, the the only thing that I can say.
As a civilian working in this world for the first time,
I could see how that I could see how that
would happen. I could see how that would play out
and how no one would look twice at it. I
could also see how they may have moved him or
(38:48):
moved your squad and in an attempt or even maybe
with the intention of trying to protect you, but then
accidentally quote unquote accidentally right, because there should be precautions
in place so the accident wouldn't happen. You end up
(39:11):
right back in the in the same place, in the
same position, with him being in a position of power,
where the same stuff could go down again, The same
exact shit can go down and there be no repercussions,
because what does it look like to do it twice?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, and it's just so deeply embedded in military culture.
And I also think a lot of it has to
do with you know, white older white men, and just
I don't even really want to go into race, but yeah,
that definitely has a lot to do with the traditions.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Well, that was going to be my next question, to
be honest, how is your experience impacted by your identity?
And like racism is part of it, but also age,
it seemed like at that time was part of it
as well. Maybe experience rank. All these things just make
it so that this culture just continues to exist because
(40:15):
it's a culture based on obedience and following orders. So
it creates this just really nasty system where a lot
of stuff people in power in higher ranks can get
away with a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Absolutely, and I definitely think age plays a huge and
it has a huge impact. And even you know, going
looking like from outside the military, just growing up, being younger,
and like I've mentioned my brother's friend just knowing, or
my uncle just knowing, you know, the relationship between my brother,
(40:52):
my mom and my brother, his friend, my mom and
his uncle, and me being young and just getting getting
older realizing okay, that was wrong, but then also thinking
like no one would have believed me, and you know,
and I think about just like random posts or videos
(41:13):
on social media where and there was there was actually
this was not too long ago, and I think this
might have actually taken place in Eerie. They posted it
was like this girl who said her stepdad or someone
assaulted her, and people were commenting saying that, you know,
(41:33):
she's lying, she's like attention seeking. And so I don't
know when I think about age and just the outlook
of people outside looking in making comments of just maybe that,
you know, just not believing the validity of someone else's story,
(41:54):
like first of all the fucking nerve that people have,
but yeah, I think that's probably like one of the
biggest things. And then race is too, because in the military.
I mean, the majority of people are white men, and
so they tend to stick in band together. So I
(42:15):
feel like, at least like in my situation, it was
just you know, for me to okay, the second time,
say this thing happened, knowing that you know, the first time,
I clearly wasn't protected the second time. I'm almost certain
that you know, this man, if he was crazy enough
(42:36):
to do that the second time, then I can't imagine
the length that he would go through again to make sure.
I really didn't say anything, and I just didn't want to.
I didn't want to take it there. I really didn't
at that time. I really was fearful just with the
stories I was hearing and how I mean, so I'm
(42:59):
five sick. He had to have been like a foot
taller than me, big, like I mean, he was massive
to me. But yeah, I just knew, you know, there
was just nothing I can do just based on all
those factors though, kind of like to what you said,
(43:22):
and now that I really think about that and I'm
like sitting with that, it yeah m hm, I can
see you know. Even if I would have went, like
I know, it would have been the right thing to
do to report him again. But I would not have
been protected at all.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
And that's not even like a that's not even you
assuming that, like you had direct evidence that you would
not be protected because it happened a second time.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, that's wild. And then I think about, you know,
all these cases that we see on the media, Vanessa,
the woman who was who was murdered on a military base,
and just hearing these stories and I'm like, wow, you
know what if that was me? Like and those I
really sit with those moments when I hear about something,
(44:20):
I'm like, again, like it's and those are the only
stories that you know, we see on TV that are
lucky enough to make it across our screen and get
some actual airtime. But there's so many other, so many
other incidents where they're I mean, they're just left on
(44:40):
the hush. Yeah, they don't. They don't want you to
interfere with a good boys club. You know, they've both
I mean, this is a hundred over one hundred years
of this military culture, and I think to them, they're
probably like, Okay, somebody was whether they were assaulted, this
(45:03):
is like a one off situation to them, and it
doesn't necessarily affect them. So No, they're not going to
spend the money, the manpower into looking into anything. You're
just going to cover it up because it's easier. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
How many one off situations does it take for you
to realize that this is a part of our culture,
this is what we're allowing to continue to happen. Yeah,
And I just want to say, with regard to Vanessa Geen,
like there were a lot of changes that came about
(45:40):
from her case, and they tried to strengthen even my program,
a program that I'm working under. They tried to strengthen
the sexual Assault Response and Prevention program. But even trying
to strengthen that program is kind of a drop in
the bucket from all of the like systemic issues that
(46:04):
need to change. And when I say systemic issues, I
mean even the people who were in those positions who
are allowing the systemic issues to continue to happen. Like,
that's a widespread change that needs to occur for this
program to actively be strengthened and to be effective.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah. I agree. And I didn't watch her documentary on Netflix,
but I'm going to check that out. That's definitely going
to be on my list.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
It's powerful, it's powerful, because it doesn't hold back any
punches on what the family said, you know, accurately says
was ignored and like you said, the protections that weren't
in place, or the protections that they.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Didn't do enough justice too, and just going back to
you know, being on base or in training, we're really
stripped away of all of our power. So it's not like,
you know, I can just go back home and be
in the comfort of my own home and I can
go to a family member's house or call somebody they
(47:19):
can come over. You have absolutely no power at all.
You can't even make a phone call without going up
your chain of command. I don't know how it is now,
but we couldn't even have cell phones. They were locked up.
We can only write letters, and sometimes our letters wouldn't
even get sent off home. So I couldn't call my family,
(47:42):
I couldn't call nine. I couldn't call nine one one,
and if I did, they would send the military police.
So again, no, like there it's your in some cases
you are you have to rely on, you know, And
what my chain of command looked like was the person
that assaulted me. So right, I'm just wondering, you know,
(48:07):
and looking back in Vanessa's situation, like it's just so
sad to see that so many people have failed her.
It's it's insane.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Yeah, and in that failed you, Yeah, because I want
to I want to like lift up your story as well,
like they you were failed in that in that moment
to be protected. And I'm just curious, like from your
from your view, what what do you think it's going
(48:43):
to take, Like what would you in like your wildest
imagination of how to change that system and how to
make it better, Like what would you say needs to
happen for people to be better supported in the military
and that you know, even in like localizing and in
that basic training scenario, because like you said, a lot
(49:07):
of the people who are entering at are seventeen and
they're fresh out of high school. They're you know, entering
maybe a work environment for the first time where it
is this highly physical and highly dependent, right, because like
you said, you're stripped of all power. What what what
do you think needs to change to better support people
(49:30):
going through that training, women going through that training, and
more specifically like black women going through that.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
For the first thing, more resources because going in and
you're you're and you're only a mate you're only made
aware of, you know what, kind of like the resources
that they're telling you are available. So kind of going
back peddling a little bit, I think more civilian positions
(50:04):
that aren't necessarily entwined with the military. But in my
thought process them was like, if they tell me I
can't do it, then I can't do it. I mean
I can't even go to the bathroom without asking them. Like,
you can't eat. If they tell you you can't eat,
you literally can't eat. Like there would be times when
we would go in line to get food and then
(50:25):
if somebody like spoke in that entire building, they would
make all of us throw our food out or get
out the line, and that was that we cannot eat
for that moment in the day. So yes, more civilian
positions that aren't connected to the military, so they can
then hold the military accountable. Whether that looks like contracted,
(50:47):
I don't know, but that needs to be a thing
somebody that doesn't have any ties with the military, kind
of like an auditor.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
M because I was going to say, even if they
had those positions looking in you can clean up a
life of stuff when somebody's you know, taking a look
and asking for.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
What's going on.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
But yeah, that auditor who's like having those conversations, maybe
pulling like service members aside of all ranks and having
those conversations with them. If somebody asked you, did you
get a chance to vote it's election season, did you
get an opportunity to do your civic duty to vote?
(51:30):
You know, maybe that would have been a time for
somebody to intervene. And it's like, out of all the
places or the people to deny you that right, the
military right, that is just right wild wile wile.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
But yeah, it'll you know, to I mean over one
hundred years of operating this way and you know, protecting
their people, and it will take a lot of manpower,
a lot of money, a lot of resources. But it's possible.
I mean the funds, they have their resources. It's really
(52:07):
just getting the right people in the right place at
the right time that want to do the work. Yeah,
and the right structure.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, absolutely so, more resources, civilian positions, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Anything else that comes to mind that would help that process, Hmmm,
I don't Yeah, I can't really think of anything out
outside of that, but I'll be more than welcomed you know,
throw some ideas in your way. When I think about it,
since you're in this position, which I think is so dope,
(52:45):
and it's so therey needed.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I think that there is there is a want for
this program to be more, to be more powerful. Power
is not even word to be more impactful. It's just
when you are creating these when you're creating these programs
kind of in response to a systemic failure that in
(53:14):
that same system still exist as it always has for
one hundred years. As you mentioned, there's just it's going
to take a lot for that impact to infiltrate and
penetrate that system. So like I think it, I think
it will come. This program is still fairly new. I
(53:35):
think I think about ten years or something like that.
That it's only that it's been in existence, which seems
like a lot of years. But again, systems are going
to system and uh it is.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
It has.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
It's taken a lot incremental steps, small incremental steps to
get even the level of access that the program currently has.
So it's there's a lot in it.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, And the historically the military has always been terrible
at being prepared for situations, always reactive. So like in
terms of like this program. I mean, uh and just
technology resources. I just think of another space of being
(54:28):
innovative and thinking ahead in so just Okay, this thing happened.
Now let's try to figure out, you know, what can
we do to better positions our position ourself. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah. And that's another thing that as a civilian coming
into this, like I had a totally different view of like, oh, oh,
the military, the Department of Defense, like they have this,
they have the its budget in our entire you know,
government system, Like, oh, we're coming into some real dollars time,
(55:08):
some real impact. And when I tell you, it took me,
like it took me, what four months to get a
laptop that wasn't operating on like Windows nine.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yep, it was, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
It's a struggle my laptop. It literally took me like
forty five minutes of my day when I came in
in the morning to just get up and running till
I could access my email. I'm like, this is a wild,
a wild use of resources.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Absolutely, Like we had a saying it was hurry up
and wait because yep, a mess.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
I haven't heard that so many times and I was like,
oh no, like they're just being dramatic about it is
so freaking, it is so and it's infuriating. It's infuriating
coming from like I came from higher ed previously. A
lot of my work experience was in higher education. And
(56:11):
it depends on the school, but most of most schools
are not funded that well. You know, so you think, Okay,
you're coming from education, which historically is under resourced, underfunded,
you know, and enter this space of the military and
know what the budget looks like and who where does
(56:34):
it go because child, it doesn't go to the computers,
it doesn't go to the technology.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
M Yeah. So yeah, this is a good conversation.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I appreciated the other just kind of to wrap this
all up, thinking about everything that we've talked about, and
like I said that, I think you and like everything
that you've been through in life is just you have
such a unique vantage point, unique in the way that
(57:13):
you're in all the different parts of this that you
are tied to. But also a lot of like similarities
that I hear from a lot of people that I
had I've had these conversations with, and which is why
you know, this concept of the unwanted sorority and about
black women's unique experiences, and this is so critical for
(57:33):
people to hear because of those similarities that feel really
individual and feel really unique. But it's such a privilege
to be able to hear it and talk to you
about this stuff. But is there anything that you want
people to know about how to better support black women
or black girls?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
At the bare minimum is just to lessen and not
just you know, okay, I hear you, but but really listen.
Me and my friend we had a conversation the other
day and it was about a post on social media.
This was white person politics, but they were talking about
(58:20):
something related to like social justice, about you know, what
they were working on, and then reading the comments, which
is one of my pastime, great favorite hobbies, getting messy
in the comments.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
It's so yes, it's so sad, but it is so entertaining.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
But it was you know, comments of like people saying, well,
this is what you should be doing. And so without
going to the nitty gritty, but the conversation that I
had with my friend was, you know, oftentimes I feel
like when white people talk about issues, whether it's like
(59:03):
social justice initiatives or going and talking about like police
brutality and just talking about like what change it looks like.
Oftentimes I feel like what change looks like to them
or for them, but not listening to the voice of
the people in which these things have the most effect on.
(59:25):
So going back to this, it's just really just listening
and then trying to comprehend, like okay, and then asking
questions of how can you best support this person because
everybody's experiences are different and unique, But at the bare minimum,
(59:45):
it's just to listen, you know. Even with my current relationship,
which and I have to say that it has been
just meeting him and this being and this relationship has
been one of the best things to have happened to
me because it's provided me with a mirror to see myself,
like I'm like, damn, I really need to well, damn,
(01:00:08):
I thought I was over this, and he very much
hold me accountable. Or if I'm like, you know, keeping
to myself, I'm stonewalling and moments of just being filled
with anxiety, and you know, he very much holds me accountable.
(01:00:29):
But he is also like I think, like, you know,
I have to do the work. But then it's like
he I'm putting him in a position to where he's
doing the work with me, and so like we're in
therapy together and I'm finding out dang, like these are
really not saying that he doesn't have his mess too,
(01:00:51):
but he's willing to sort my mess out with me.
And so again listening, but also just having that community
of people to support you whatever that looks like. But
for me and for this, and I think it's just
so dope to have like people who have shared a
(01:01:14):
similar experience, because you know, when I talked about me
having that sense of community and not saying that it
has to you know, I have to only be friends
with women who have experienced assault or sexual assault. But
(01:01:34):
having people in your circle a community of people that
have shared a similar experience helps a lot. But yeah,
bare minimum is just listening and just taking that in
and some problems you don't even have to say anything,
but just sitting with someone in that moment. Sometimes that's
just all they do is someone to just sit with them,
(01:01:58):
but listening, seeing what they need. Yeah, I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
That we can have connection be a part of our
healing and we deserve that. So I'm excited to see
where this goes.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
And thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. Yeah, and
thank you for you know, reaching out to me and
keeping me in mind. And I do have to, you know,
share this with you, because just speaking to you initially
was just so impactful for me, and then reading your
dissertation and once oh you got resolutely yes, I'm good,
(01:02:34):
I'm glad. And so when I read that part about me,
it made me realize, like, because and the moments that
you know, I spoke with you, and then even you know,
past that, it wasn't until I read your dissertation that
I realized that what I went through, I blamed myself
(01:02:56):
for all of that. Like I was like, oh, well,
I shouldn't have you know, been drinking. I shouldn't have
been there, I shouldn't have done this. And then that
not only did that show up, you know, my current
life and how I viewed people or situations that may
or may not relate to what I've experienced, but it
(01:03:19):
also like showed up in my relationship too, and then
I would just be just filled with so much mistrust
in everyone. I mean, it just showed up in so
many spaces, and that made me realize that, Okay, I
still need to continue this work, and I this is
(01:03:40):
the area that I need to work on so again,
thank you. I don't think I think it would have
taken much longer for me to realize that that was
just just a huge part of my healing process. Oh,
I'm so glad to hear that. Thank you for sharing
(01:04:01):
that with me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
I can all of the dissertation interviews, all of the
interviews that I had from my dissertation, I can go
back to those like exact moments of listening to you
all to share your stories and share yourselves with me,
and I remember yours so vividly too, and I just remember,
like that stuck out to me of like you, like
how you were blaming yourself and how you were taking
(01:04:27):
ownership over other people's actions and other people's choices to.
Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Cause harm to you.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
And I'm so glad that that was something that you
got to quickly and that you were able to hear
framed from somebody else's perspective of listening to you talk
about your experience and hear it from someone else, and like,
really hear that and internalize that and let that go because,
(01:04:57):
like I said, your story is so unique, but it's
also something that we a lot of us do as survivors,
is that we in trying to figure out what our
feelings are, what our emotions are, what we're holding onto.
We try to place it somewhere, but a lot of
(01:05:17):
times we don't have a place to place it, and
so we place it within ourselves. And that is easier
for us to do because we can contain that and
we can figure out how to move beyond it. And oh,
I'm so glad to hear that you were able to
see that and have that be a part of your
(01:05:38):
healing as well, because that's just not It's not something
that anyone deserves to hold on to, landing themselves for
other people's poor decisions.
Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
So thank you, Yeah, thank you. This has been a
really good conversation for sure. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Dom so bravely shared so much of her life and
her story with me once upon a time when I
interviewed her a few years ago for my dissertation, and
this time she opened up even more and had an
opportunity to reflect on some of those key moments and
the clarity.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
That she found.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
She continued her healing journey after her assaults. So in
this final segment, Unpacking the Ritual, I want to lift
up a few elements of dom story that may ring
true for other survivors. In this segment, the first ritual
that I want to highlight is how Dom experienced sexual
violence at such a young age. According to Tonjy Reese
(01:06:55):
with the California Partnership to End Domestic Violence and the
article she wrote titled the War Against Black Girls, addressing
the adultification bias, there's a rite of passage that black
women go through before we reach adulthood, and that coming
to the realization that people may treat us like we're
twice our age. Some more responsibility that could look like
(01:07:19):
kids raising kids, being forced to adopt household duties. This
burden of self protection, you know, when you're told to
stop being fast when you're literally just living your life.
And it's as if the unwanted attention that our bodies
receive as they proceed to naturally grow and develop is
(01:07:43):
somehow our fault. Don noted what could be one of
the long term consequences of black girls being socialized or
raised in our society to adopt that responsibility early. She
talked about how she was still even to this day,
making responsibility for everyone's comfort in her life, including those
(01:08:04):
who committed sexual harm and abuse against her. Healing for
dam included coming to the realization of what she was
doing and that it went against.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
What she knew was helpful for her.
Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
But she noted that she just kind of couldn't help
that instinct to make sure other people were comfortable first
before thinking about what she needed and what she deserved.
So this may be a ritual that many of us
here are here from ourselves and have experienced ourselves. And
I want to give a shout out to doctor Aria S. Halliday,
(01:08:39):
author of the Black Girlhood Studies Collection, for putting together
this groundbreaking collection of works that dive into the theories
of Black girls in black girlhood, including how race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class, religion,
and nationality impact Black girls in and outside of school
(01:09:00):
and within urban settings. One chapter specifically titled Self Care
and Community Black Girls Saving Themselves Doctor Caroline Cultifalter and
Carmelisha Alexander is called to memory and thinking about Dom's experiences.
(01:09:21):
They talk about how the stigmatization of mental health treatment
seeking in black communities negatively affects black girls who may
benefit from that form of support, and how black girls
often take matters into their own hands. They suggest that
black girls often find and establish self care practices based
(01:09:41):
on inclusive communities informing them of mental health issues and
how to utilize healthy behaviors as a means of coping.
As Tanji mentioned, black girls can also land on unhealthy
ways of coping as they fight every day to quote,
do the right thing and follow the rules, while society
(01:10:02):
still challenges them by forcing them to defend themselves against
grown men cat calling them, and still being forced to
be polite and respect their elders. And Tanji mentioned in
her article that she quote learned to use my word,
my body, my mind, and my love as both the
weapon and shield and for dom. She mentioned the terms
(01:10:26):
stonewalling and disassociation when talking about how she coped with
the trauma of her assaults even into her young adulthood,
and so just so we're all kind of operating with
the same understandings and definitions. Stonewalling is a term that
refers to a persistent refusal to communicate or to express emotions.
(01:10:48):
It's common during conflicts when people may stonewall in an
attempt to avoid uncomfortable conversations, or out of fear that
engaging in an emotional discussion will result in a fight.
It's also thought to occur on a continuum, ranging from
refusing to discuss a problem for a brief period of
(01:11:09):
time to completely withdrawing from months and What we also
know about trauma survivors, however, is that dissociation may be
closely aligned. What one may read a stonewalling and a
conversation or interaction with a partner or a friend or
family may be a trauma response. Dissociation, however, is a
(01:11:32):
human phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Expressed by all people.
Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
According to the National Institutes of Health, trauma survivors experience
higher rates of dissociation and may utilize it as an
escape when there's no physical escape from trauma. The International
Society for the City of Trauma and Association defines it
as quote a process in which a person disconnects from
(01:11:57):
their thoughts, feelings, memories, behavior, yours, physical sensations, or sense
of identity, and these symptoms can show up in a
number of different ways. I'm going to give you a
brief rundown on a few of these categories, but I
encourage you to take a deeper dive into The International
Society for the Study of Trauma and Association's website linked
(01:12:20):
in the show notes as well as follow up a
specific mental health provider to find out more information if
you're curious about this, if it's something you've experienced yourself.
These categories include number one deep personalization, which is a
dissociation from yourself or your body. Number two derealization, where
(01:12:41):
you feel as if your external world is not real
or is being changed in some way. It's thought to
create kind of a mental distance to help someone who's
experienced trauma survive. Number three dissociative amnesia, which are kind
of memory gaps for getting parts or all of a
traumatic event, and so for a sexual assault survivor, dissociate
(01:13:08):
of amnesia can be a major survival tactic for one's
ability to continue on with their everyday life. And with Dom,
we heard her describe these really powerful ways that she
was able to navigate healing and the effects of her
black girlhood while understanding her needs as she enters black womanhood,
and she gave herself space and time.
Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
She also found healing in connecting with others. First, it
was her friend who she was able to hear reflect
back to her, which she had built up all these
protective walls around regarding her dramatic experience, and then it
was her partner and she was able to share what
was happening in her space and in her life and
(01:13:51):
how she was navigating it. She even said in our conversation,
you think you're good, but you're really not until you
do the work. For her, that work included talking to
her partner, who she had to learn to openly communicate
with when she realized that she was safe enough to
do so with him, and then her therapist, who helped
(01:14:13):
her to learn how to be more empathetic towards herself
and what she was experiencing and how she survived. And
so as we wrap up, I want to lift up
one of Caroline and care Malicious co researchers, Nikisha, who
shared the following quote in their chapter. Self care means accountability, respect, love,
(01:14:36):
and liberation. It means holding yourself accountable to attain the
love you deserve and leaving toxic behavior behind, which leads
to respecting and loving yourself without fear. So as you
sit with that definition, I want you to take a
second and think what self care looks like for you.
Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
What did it mean for you as.
Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
A black girl? What does it mean for you today
as a black woman, and if you're not necessarily a
member of the Unwanted Sorority, then you personally fall outside
the demographics of this show. That's okay, even as a
guest in this space, there's still ways that you've been
able to engage in self care and how that's changed
and shaped and shifted, how you have continued to grow
(01:15:21):
and learn more about yourself. So I invite you to
think about all of those ways that you have changed
and self care has changed for you over the years.
I can't wait to hear from y'all. Let us know
what's working for you at the Unwanted Sorority on Instagram
and TikTok. And until next time, take care of yourself,
(01:15:42):
take care of one another, and release whatever shame regilt
you may be feeling about the harm that's been done
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive producd bmy Lean
ter Tate, Our executive producer is Joel Money, our producer
is Carmen Loren, and original cover art is created by
Savannah Yuler. I would also like to have special thanks
to the iHeart Podcast Next Up program for helping bring
the show to life. Also, all of the guests who
have taken a step in sharing their story with you
all on these episodes. And finally, to all the members
(01:16:22):
of the sorority who will never tell their story. We
see you and your story matters.
Welcome back to another episode of The Unwanted Sorority. I'm
your host, Leatra. This is a space created for and
by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks who've experienced
sexual violence.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Whether you've lived.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It, loved someone who has, or simply want to hold space,
You're welcome here for this week's Flowers. For the Founder's segment,
I am very excited to shout out Rosa Parks and
talk about her in relation to this movement, maybe in
a way you've never heard before. And I'm also going
to be sharing the story of Racy Taylor and together
(00:37):
they truly kick down the doors for the civil rights
movement's entrance into this sexual violence prevention movement in the
mid nineteen hundreds. You'll also hear from Dom, a former
service member, who shares how freeing it can be to
tell your story and how it can actually serve as
a way to deepen one's romantic relationships with the support
(00:59):
of a connected therapist just as a caveat, and tune
in to hear why Dom believes this.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, you know, you think something happens to you, you
try to suppress it, and you think like, Okay, you're
good but you're really not until you do the work.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The unwanted to already is a space for community connection
and care, but it is not a substitute for professional
mental health, medical or legal support. If anything you hear
today resonates in a way that feels heavy, I encourage
you to reach out to someone you trust or a
licensed commission. You deserve to feel well, You deserve to
be supported. Over ten years before we know, Rosa Parks
(01:49):
is the face of an iconic civil rights movement where
she refused to give up her seat for a white
man on a bus in nineteen fifty five, Rosa Parks
made waves in another for refusing to let white supremacists
take up space in the sexual violence movement. Let me
take you back to nineteen thirty one, when Rosa Parks
(02:11):
was an eighteen year old young woman and she was
the victim of an attempted rape by her neighbor. Rosa
was quotas saying I was ready to die, but give
my consent never never Never. Fueled by her attempted assault
and the racial social climate at the time, Rosa Parks
joined the National Association for the Advancement of Color People
(02:35):
or the End of LACP in nineteen forty three, and
she took on her role as a sexual assault investigator
for the organization. Rosa's work led her to focus on
protecting black men from full sexual harassment accusations of white
women in lynchings, but the other part of her work
led Rosa to ensuring that black people who had been
(02:55):
sexually assaulted by white people could actually get justice in
the form of fair trial. Her work brought her to Abeville, Alabama,
in nineteen forty four to meet with a woman who
was seeking that very thing. Justice. Late one Sunday evening,
a twenty four year old sharecropper named Racy Taylor was
walking home from church with her friend Fanny Daniel. Suddenly,
(03:19):
a car with seven young white men approached Taylor and
accused her of attacking a white boy from a nearby
town and some sort of strange attempt at vigilante justice.
These men kidnapped Racy at gunpoint, threw her in her car,
and said that they would be taking her to the
sheriff to pay for what she had done. These young
men had other plans, however. They raped her then threatened
(03:43):
her with death if she reported the crime. Recy knowing
that she was not only not complicit in the crime
the young men accused her of, but knowing that she
herself had been victimized, confided in her father, who, along
with her friend Fanny, built a care case against the
young men with the local sheriff's department. This helped only
(04:04):
slightly because even though the sheriff, Louis Corbett, took Reesy
to the local grocery store where she was able to
identify two of the young men who raped her, the
sheriff simply confirmed that the young men quote were with
this woman tonight. When one of the rapists actually confessed
to the rape and named six other men involved, the
(04:26):
sheriff told them to get in the car and he
sent them on their way, and according to Reesy, she
didn't hear anything else from the sheriff about the matter.
News of this gross negligence made its way to the Montgomery,
Alabama offices of the NAACP, where they made sure their
best sexual as soul investigator, Rosa Parks, was on the
scene to help advocate for Recy. When Rosa Parks arrived
(04:49):
in Apel, the sheriff didn't respond well. He harassed Recy
and her husband and repeatedly drove by their house. Eventually,
the sheriff came into their home and demanded that Rosa
Parks leave town because he quote did not want any
troublemakers here in Abeville and also quote if you don't go,
(05:10):
I'll lock you up. This man wanted zero accountability for
himself and the trash behavior that he exhibited, just like
he wanted zero accountability for the young men who were
responsible for this gruesome rate of recy. Nevertheless, Rosa Parks persisted.
She returned to Montgomery, where she created the Committee for
(05:31):
Equal Justice for the Rights of Missus re C. Taylor,
playing a beautifully strategic and intelligent game despite the segregationist
policies at the time, which resulted in Reese's case receiving
national attention. By October nineteen forty four, the case was
a major headline all across the country. On October ninth,
(05:53):
nineteen forty four, recy Taylor and her team of family,
friends and committed supporters received the devastating news that the
grand jury would not indict the defendants. To make matters worse,
The Chicago Defender, a Chicago based African American newspaper which
was once considered the most important newspaper of its time,
(06:16):
reported that Willie Guide Taylor Reesey, Taylor's husband was even
offered six hundred dollars by the suspect's lawyer to silence
his wife and force her to drop the case. The
suspects ruling to pay one hundred dollars each if Reesy
would just forget about the rape. Rosa Parks was outraged,
(06:37):
and she led a movement for others to write letters
of protests to the Alabama Governor, Chauncey Sparks. In one
of the letters that she wrote on Alabama Committee for
Equal Justice letterhead, she wrote, quote, as a citizen of Alabama,
I urge you to use your high office to reconvene
(06:58):
the Henry County Grand Jury at the earliest possible moment.
Alabamians are depending on you to see that all obstacles
which are preventing justice in this case be removed. I
know that you will not fail to let the people
of Alabama know that there is equal justice for all
(07:19):
of your citizens. The letter was signed respectfully, yours, Rosa L. Parks,
twenty two Mill Street, Montgomery, Alabama. As a result, the
governor ordered another investigation of the rape. On February fourteenth,
nineteen forty five, a grand jury once again refused to
(07:43):
indict the suspects. These men, who on their own accord
admitted to raping Reesy Taylor, were never prosecuted. Reese never
received the justice that she was seeking or that she
actually deserved, but her story lives on in large part
as a result of the commitment of Rosa Parks, who
(08:06):
made sure that the law worked for her, and an
equal part to the tenacity and grit that Reesey Taylor
showed in making sure that she did whatever she could
to hold.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Her perpetrators accountable.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In fact, in twenty eleven, that Alabama Senate gave final
approval on the issuance of a public apology to Reesy
Taylor via a resolution that expressed the state's deepest sympathy
and deepest regrets for the handling of the case. To me,
the relationship between these two is a historical reminder of
(08:40):
the power of black women believing and showing up for
one another in times of crisis, and as someone working
with sexual assault survivors every day, I'm so grateful for
the pathway that Rosa Parks laid in how to get
shit done as a survivor. So we're giving flowers and
prey to both of these women for never giving up
(09:03):
in the pursuit of justice for sexual assault survivors, despite
political and social movements that want to do everything they
can to silence survivors. So there's maybe some transitional music
here or just the music that goes in the background. Next,
(09:24):
it's my honor to introduce you to a member of
the Unwanted Sorority who also embodies that mindset of accountability
and justice, and she actually, in her role call gives
us a masterclass on what it looks like to take
care of oneself while doing it. Dom is in her
mid thirties and she's a super dope cossplayer and gamer
(09:45):
with a son who's taking after her as a lover
of all things gaming and tech. And Dom is someone
I've actually known since high school. We grew up in
the same town, we played on the same sports teams,
we even went to the same college for undergrad the
college where we were both raped. And you'll hear why,
(10:05):
but I still am to this day in awe of
Dom and the way that she articulates what her healing
journey has been like, so let's get into her rocal.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, thank you. I'm excited to be here have this
conversation with you. It's so funny that every time someone
brings up an introduction, I'm like, oh crap, what should
I say? And this is something like who am I right?
Like is this a job interview? Should I? And I
always like give a rundown of the things that I do.
So that's actually something that I am working on personally,
(10:47):
is like, you know, tell me about yourself or your story.
But I mean for this, I guess we can, you know,
just leave it at the basics.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's one hundred percent fair. So I uh, when I
recorded my pie for this, like I recorded an interview
with myself because I kind of talk about my story
and how I am connected to this concept of the
unwanted sorority and so I talk about that, and I
think that there's a lot of validity to that, particularly
for Black women. I feel like a lot of it
(11:18):
is about accomplishments and achievements, and that's how we identify
ourselves and like what we've done, and that's not really it,
like that's not who we are, but that's just kind
of our default. A lot of times because for whatever reasons,
particularly like if we're working in like the types of
work environments that we're in, like that is who you are.
(11:39):
That becomes a part of your main part, a major
part of how you identify yourself is the things that
you've done instead of just who we are as people and.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know all that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So it's really, yeah, that's interesting. Thank you for saying that,
because I was also wrestling with that in my own introduction.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And so I have this man tour. His name's Peter.
I met him like maybe a month or two ago.
He we have like the speaking engagement at work, and
he was an executive for some cosmetic companies like I
think Mac, a few other ones, smash Box, and he
(12:23):
started out with this presentation on telling your story and
I was just like so captivated with the way that
he described himself. I'm like, you know what, shoot, I'm
just going to reach out to him. And a week
ago he responded back to me, so he's gonna mentor me,
and yeah, work on that. So it's funny just with
(12:46):
the timing of this and you know, you're telling me
introduce myself, and I'm like, this is something that I'm
trying to work on right now.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, that's cope, that's dope, Like if you like, it
would be cool to hear like a follow up, like
what what did Peter help you with in terms of
how you identify? So maybe that's something we can do,
a follow up one, not just like how do you
tell your story? What is your stuy? Absolutely right, and
that's a big part of like this too, is like
(13:19):
to me, this is all our story. This is a
part of our story. But it's not who we are, right,
it's not our soul identity, it's not it's not the
biggest thing about us, but it is about us, right,
And I think, I don't know if you feel the same.
When I think about this the unwonted sorority, I realize
my own connection to this larger group of women who
(13:40):
have experienced these traumas, Like how that is a part
of my story and how it's changed a lot of
my path in life in this really interesting way. But
it's not the main or most interesting thing about me.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, And I can say that up to a certain point,
I didn't realize that, And for the longest time I
tried to keep those things not only a secret from
like everyone around me, but for myself, just like suppressing
those things and just kind of putting them off to like, oh,
this was a thing that happened to me, nobody knows,
(14:16):
and I'm just going to try to move on with
my life. But then realizing that it just kind of
seeps out in places where you least expect it, like
it shows up and you know, relationships or I can
literally be sitting with myself and dealing with something that
I didn't realize from that and it's really just like
(14:39):
a process and I that I really didn't and to
talk about timing again. But it wasn't until you know,
you had reached out to me about your dissertation around
that time, maybe like a few months prior to where
I actually talked about what happened to me with one
of my friends and They're like, oh, yeah, no, that's
(15:02):
not okay, and I'm just like, yeah, I guess you're right.
And that's when I really started to come to terms
with like, yeah, these were very bad things. And even
then it took me a while longer to realize that,
you know, those things weren't my fault, and that was
(15:23):
an entirely different process of Okay, I'm grieving the situation
and now I'm working on forgiving myself. And yeah, you know,
you think something happens to you, you try to suppress
it and you think like, Okay, you're good, but you're
really not until you do the work. And so even
(15:44):
now I'm still doing the work. So it's a process.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, So what does that look like for you? Like,
what has the work been OLP therapy?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I mean, being consistent, being just conscious of, you know,
how I feel, like really just feeling my fills and
not suppressing them, being vocal about what I need, like
in terms of my relationship now, just getting you know,
my partner to understand and vocalize how I feel, because
(16:16):
the way that I dealt with my feelings before was
just like stonewalling or dissociating, like Okay, I need to
come out out of that because that's not healthy, but
really vocalizing like what I need for sure, because even
when I think about some things that has happened to me,
and I mean, you know, going beyond what I shared
(16:37):
with you with the dissertation, but there were memories that
I like really suppressed from childhood that very recently I
had to deal with at my parents, they celebrated their
birthdays together, so you know, my entire family got together,
my dad's side, my mom's side, which was a first
(16:58):
in our family. Creepy uncle that something happened in the past,
he was there, haven't seen him in years. And then
one of my brother's friends, who at the time I
didn't realize, you know, what he was doing to me
was wrong, Like he would force me to sit on
his lap. He was five six years older than me,
(17:20):
and then he would try to touch me too, like
touch my chest, and at the time I didn't realize
what was wrong because I was a kid. And again,
those are memories that I suppressed that for some reason
have been like you know, seeping out. But so dealing
(17:41):
with that earlier in the year. And then you know,
putting together this party for my parents and actually my
older brother he kind of helped steer it. But when
he reached out to me, he said, oh, and my
friend so and so was helping with the decorations, and
I'm like, oh, wow, So you know, I'm reliving these
(18:02):
memories and now I actually have to come face to
face with him and it's been years. And then my
uncle too, it's been years, so, you know, just being
really conscious of like, Okay, I'm not going to hide.
And my initial reaction was I'm not going to this party.
I'll just fake sick. But I'm like, and then what
(18:26):
would that do for me? And you know another part
of that though, and I know this sounds really crazy
to even think about how my thought process was, but
it was really like I didn't want to create an
(18:47):
uncomfortable moment, meaning that not only would it be uncomfortable
for me, but for them too, as in, like, you know,
like I did something wrong to be in that position,
And that's something that I'm really trying hard to work
on in therapy right now. Is Okay, I think a
lot of the time when something does happen to me,
(19:07):
I also take that other person's feelings into consideration, and
it's like, why the hell am I even doing that?
So sorry, I just said a mouthful and I probably
stared off a little bit of what we were talking
about initially.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Not at all, This is your story, this is your time,
But I just wanted to say to your last point there,
like I think that's so common, particularly for black women, right,
Like we're so used to maybe leading things, especially around
our families. We're so used to picking up the pieces
(19:44):
and making sure everybody's taken care of and making sure
everything goes smoothly, making sure, you know, our families are
getting together and doing what they need to do and
all that. But some of the last things that we
do is take care of ourselves in that and some
of the last things we do is prioritize how we're feeling.
And you know, so that I think is it makes
(20:07):
a lot of sense. It does sound crazy, It sounds counterintuitive, right,
It sounds counter to what we should quote unquote be
doing in a particular situation, is thinking about the other people.
But I think that's so much more common then it
than we think. So yeah, kind of going back to
(20:30):
what you initially said though, around like your your your
first instinct was to stonewall Your first instinct was to
like disassociate from it, remove yourself and just move move
on from it. And in thinking about that and thinking
about what your process was at the time, and what
you tried to do and maybe what you realized or
(20:53):
found didn't work for you in taking care of yourself,
what does it mean to you you at this point
to think about Okay, I have told my story. I'm
ready to tell my story. I'm ready to acknowledge it.
I'm working through it in therapy. And then on this
side of things, thinking about like being connected to this
(21:14):
concept of a sorority of women who've experienced these similar
traumatic situations in their life, Like what does that mean
to you to kind of go from those two polar
opposites Almost yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I mean it's freeing in a sense, you know, to
be able to well to go from Okay, I have
like this big secrets, like this monkey on my back,
like when I'm feeling this way or when you know,
these things are happening to me, whether I have I'm
filled with anxiety or I'm being depressed, like I can't
(21:47):
really share the reason, but to start vocalizing on that
and working on working on healing and just you know,
it does feel free in a sense. But also and
maybe this was actually around the time that you had
reached out to me and I shared, you know, with
(22:10):
you what happened to me in the past. I also
shared with my boyfriend too. And then once I moved
here and one of my things that I was like
really working on for myself was just like to have
a sense of community. And you know, I had friends, family,
(22:35):
but it was a lot of the friendships that I
had before we kind of grew apart. Just you know,
things change, I mean, life, you change, you grow, you evolve.
But what I what I found was that in those moments,
I didn't really have people that I can connect to
(22:57):
on a level of experience. So when I shared what
happened to me with my boyfriend, I feel like it
just opened up another level of him being more empathetic
to to what I've been feeling. And So for going
(23:18):
back to your question about you know, having kind of
like a community or you know, kind of like this sorority,
I feel like it's just important to be able to
have that community of people that have shared you know
that And I hate to kind of like, you know,
(23:38):
categorize like this as like, oh, yeah, this thing happened,
like it's this you know, positive, good thing, but just
having a community of people who have shared similar experiences
as you just the importance of that to just be
able to you know, understand. And I think a lot
of the times that when people are sharing their stuff
(24:00):
or is with other people who don't have similar experiences
there may be some disconnect there, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Absolutely, I think there's that that kind of automatic built
in trust that comes with knowing that a person has
a shared or similar experience, So that about one makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Sorry, a lot of the times I feel like I
may be talking in circles and coming around and trying to,
you know, get back to the topic. So you may
have to roll me in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Look, there's no reeling in, like this is this is truly,
this is truly just whatever, because a lot of it
can be edited out anyway, right, So, like, honestly, I'm
not worried. That's the last thing on my mind. I
feel like I talk in circles constantly when when when
getting into this, because it is it's still so new. Yeah,
(24:57):
and even for me it's very new. So I don't
know how much I shared with you when I was
doing the dissertation research, but that was doing this research
is what prompted me to talk about it. It was
my first time diving into it, and yeah, there was
(25:18):
a lot of kind of figuring out.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What the right path is to get there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
But yeah, it is that I think that is just
that's part of the work and it's it's not a
linear The healing is not linear. It is going to
be up and down. And you know sometimes you'll come
back to uh, you know, the same points and see
it differently after you experience some things. So yeah, it
(25:46):
doesn't it. That's that's I think what I love about this,
this sorority concept because it's not about anything being perfect
or any of us trying to fit ourselves into a
particular mold or model or theory even. But like our
stories are unique. Our stories are what our stories are.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The way that we come at this is going to
be so totally different. But I think that's also the
beauty of just being able to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, And I like when you said that you know,
it's not going to be perfect. And you know, when
I initially started going to therapy, my kind of outlook
on the end game of therapy was like, all right,
and I'll be perfectly fine. And that's that's never the case.
(26:43):
It's just we would go through these little ten sessions, yes, yes,
and I'm like, this is a life long like a thing,
I mean, and just this life and like there's perfection
is impossible. I mean, you know things life you go
through the ebbs and flows, but just my entire perspective
(27:06):
of Okay, yep, these sessions and then after that, I'll
see you later, like nope, yeah, no peace, I'm going
in a world here.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
But how little we realized before we get into it. Yeah, Yeah,
it's definitely it's a life long it's a life long.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, definitely a lot of work, a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And so I think that's also like that takes me
to my next thing that I want to kind of
get your perspective on, is we we talk about it
in therapy, right, Like there's a therapeutic context in which
we can have these conversations around our experiences. But it's
a totally different thing to talk about it in like
(28:04):
a more casual way, you know, like even going into
it from a research perspective of like being you know,
a participant in a research study on this or for
myself building a research study on this.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What was that? What did that look.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Like for you to be like, Okay, you know, maybe
I am because you actually we did that interview before
you started therapy around it, right, Yeah, So I guess
maybe that was this question is reversed. So you talked
about it in this more casual way with your friend
and your partner and then with me during this study.
(28:43):
Did you have to did you feel like you had
to switch or change the way that you talked about
it when you started going to therapy for it.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So kind of when I shared with a friend, I
think that really set me up and a better place
to be able to speak with you. And it also
helped because I you known prior to that, but just
being able to kind of express myself to somebody that
(29:12):
I was comfortable with, and then you know, sharing that
same story with you again, it helped me to then
be able to articulate that better with a therapist and
then like really start to you know, like it helped
me be more confident too, because the first time I
shared that, it was just and I just remember just
(29:35):
like speaking like kind of like being robotic in a sense,
and just because it was just again a thing that happened,
and I was just trying to you know, put that
back into this place where I kept it. And then yeah,
(29:56):
sharing that with you, I felt like I was a
little more fluent and you know divulging information. And then
you know, going to therapy, like it helped, Like there
were kind of like steps essentially, But I think that
and for me, it was better to just have that
you know, initial conversation with someone I knew and I
(30:20):
trusted to then share that with a stranger. I mean, yeah,
you know, of course therapists, you know, they keep things confidential,
but it's still someone that you need to work on
building a relationship with. So I think I think it
was you know, easier for me in that sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, that makes sense, almost like peeling back the layers
until you can get to the root of it and
that's where you may, you know, how sound more success
in there. Yeah, And I know some people, you know,
they they find more success in peeling back those layers
in therapy. So it's all, you know, it's all individualized.
(31:06):
But yeah, that definitely makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, going back to what you said,
it is very individualized depending on you know, who you are,
what your comfort level is like, so it's different.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So we we've talked about like some of the different experiences.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That you've had, like in.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Childhood, and you know, kind of coming to terms with
maybe what that's looked like for you, particularly around the
people who were causing harm. Being so close to you
at that time. We talked about, you know, what it
was like with your experience in college. But the one
(31:54):
thing that I also found really interesting when we did
the Dissertaine interview was when you're talking about like your
experience in the military and like some of what you've
seen in that in that context, so I don't are you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Still serving a service eight years and I was actually
thinking about re enlisting two years ago, did the paperwork
for the process and getting ready to you know, go
do the physical, and then I just couldn't go through
with a Yeah, it's a total lifestyle change.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, So that's actually that's what my I don't know
if you know, but that's what my current job is.
So I'm a SARK, a sexual assault Response coordinator for
a military installation. And it is wild, yep, but it's
it's wild. Like thinking about it from like a even
(33:00):
a program perspective, I'm like, you would think the military
would have it a little bit more together than they
actually do.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Know, And then you go on some of these training
bases and I mean, for the most part you're dealing
with kids fresh out of high school. Basic training. That
was like my first experience. I was seventeen going into
the twelfth grade. It was the summer, and I experienced
my first assault. I was like a few weeks in,
(33:31):
a few weeks in into the training Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Yeah,
it was a white guy, his last name same as mine,
and so he would, you know, he would be around
(33:52):
my squad or a platoon and he I would always
like look at my name badge and then looked down
at his you know, trying to be funny, and he
would say, like, there's no rate we related. I can't
be related to you because he's white and I'm black.
So I mean I can clearly draw that conclusion. And
he would you know, get people to laugh and all
(34:14):
of that. But yeah, you I mean, just being seventeen,
being young, naive, and we were. He actually tried to
excuse him, like slamming me into a wall in front
of him, and I mean there were over a hundred
(34:35):
people who saw it, but he really tried to excuse
it and say, oh, it was a training exercise. And
so they ended up removing him from the unit I
was in, to a unit that was maybe like a
little ways down from where I was staying. And so
(34:58):
a few weeks after I ended up reporting him, I
shared with a friend. She brought me to some lieutenant
and so, you know, I was explaining to him the
comments that he was making, and you know what had happened,
how he slammed me into a wall, and you know,
we got some witnesses, a you know all you know,
(35:22):
agreed to the same story. And a few weeks later,
they send me me and my you know, whole squad
or whatever to this other part of Fort Jackson. And
we were training on like different stances with our M
(35:43):
sixteen's are our weapons, and so we were rotating in
like these circles. So there's an instructor, you rotate, there's
another instructor, and lo and behold who is the instructor.
It's this guy. And I'm like, get the like out
of all the places, thousands of people, thousands of trainings,
(36:06):
you put me in this. And I don't think that
will done on purpose, I really don't. But he noticed me,
and he said and so he wanted to use me
as an example. So he like he pointed at me
and exhered me to come to him. He was in
the middle. We're all out in the woods, bind you
and so everyone's around the circle, told me to come here,
(36:29):
and I just did it, didn't even hesitate, and it
was like almost like an outer body experience. I'm just like,
is this really happening? So he tells me to get.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Because what are you going to do in that situation,
like say no? And that's that's not a part of
that military culture.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You don't say no. You can't. You absolutely know you can't,
because I mean like if you're disregarding an order, I mean,
that couldn't just look like, you know, you being reprimanded,
so physical punishment, which you don't want. And it's ninety
degrees on a typical day in the summer of South
Carolina where we were at. I mean like people have
died on that base, like I heard stories, and this
(37:11):
was actually like older people that were still there that
you know, would say, you know, if somebody disobeyed in order,
they would take them out in a wooded area.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
As like quote unquote for disobeying.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, so that's kind of like what you know, I
was left with in terms of like, Okay, I know
I can't really disobey any orders. But going back to
this guy, so he had me get on my knees
and like hold my weapon up to where the butt
of the gun was like in my shoulder and look
through the scope. And then he just shoved the shit
(37:46):
out of me, and I just fell in the ground.
And then he made a point to say, and that
is what you shouldn't do. You shouldn't brace yourself like that.
And then he told me to go. So he made
a point to try to act like you know, and
this was the excuse that he used when he slammed
me against the wall. It was just training. So now
(38:07):
if I said that, you know, he did this thing
to me again, he clearly made it a point in
front of all these people that it was for training.
So I couldn't say anything that second time, and I didn't.
I just left it alone. I don't even know what
to say.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
I mean, the the only thing that I can say.
As a civilian working in this world for the first time,
I could see how that I could see how that
would happen. I could see how that would play out
and how no one would look twice at it. I
could also see how they may have moved him or
(38:48):
moved your squad and in an attempt or even maybe
with the intention of trying to protect you, but then
accidentally quote unquote accidentally right, because there should be precautions
in place so the accident wouldn't happen. You end up
(39:11):
right back in the in the same place, in the
same position, with him being in a position of power,
where the same stuff could go down again, The same
exact shit can go down and there be no repercussions,
because what does it look like to do it twice?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, and it's just so deeply embedded in military culture.
And I also think a lot of it has to
do with you know, white older white men, and just
I don't even really want to go into race, but yeah,
that definitely has a lot to do with the traditions.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Well, that was going to be my next question, to
be honest, how is your experience impacted by your identity?
And like racism is part of it, but also age,
it seemed like at that time was part of it
as well. Maybe experience rank. All these things just make
it so that this culture just continues to exist because
(40:15):
it's a culture based on obedience and following orders. So
it creates this just really nasty system where a lot
of stuff people in power in higher ranks can get
away with a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Absolutely, and I definitely think age plays a huge and
it has a huge impact. And even you know, going
looking like from outside the military, just growing up, being younger,
and like I've mentioned my brother's friend just knowing, or
my uncle just knowing, you know, the relationship between my brother,
(40:52):
my mom and my brother, his friend, my mom and
his uncle, and me being young and just getting getting
older realizing okay, that was wrong, but then also thinking
like no one would have believed me, and you know,
and I think about just like random posts or videos
(41:13):
on social media where and there was there was actually
this was not too long ago, and I think this
might have actually taken place in Eerie. They posted it
was like this girl who said her stepdad or someone
assaulted her, and people were commenting saying that, you know,
(41:33):
she's lying, she's like attention seeking. And so I don't
know when I think about age and just the outlook
of people outside looking in making comments of just maybe that,
you know, just not believing the validity of someone else's story,
(41:54):
like first of all the fucking nerve that people have,
but yeah, I think that's probably like one of the
biggest things. And then race is too, because in the military.
I mean, the majority of people are white men, and
so they tend to stick in band together. So I
(42:15):
feel like, at least like in my situation, it was
just you know, for me to okay, the second time,
say this thing happened, knowing that you know, the first time,
I clearly wasn't protected the second time. I'm almost certain
that you know, this man, if he was crazy enough
(42:36):
to do that the second time, then I can't imagine
the length that he would go through again to make sure.
I really didn't say anything, and I just didn't want to.
I didn't want to take it there. I really didn't
at that time. I really was fearful just with the
stories I was hearing and how I mean, so I'm
(42:59):
five sick. He had to have been like a foot
taller than me, big, like I mean, he was massive
to me. But yeah, I just knew, you know, there
was just nothing I can do just based on all
those factors though, kind of like to what you said,
(43:22):
and now that I really think about that and I'm
like sitting with that, it yeah m hm, I can
see you know. Even if I would have went, like
I know, it would have been the right thing to
do to report him again. But I would not have
been protected at all.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
And that's not even like a that's not even you
assuming that, like you had direct evidence that you would
not be protected because it happened a second time.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, that's wild. And then I think about, you know,
all these cases that we see on the media, Vanessa,
the woman who was who was murdered on a military base,
and just hearing these stories and I'm like, wow, you
know what if that was me? Like and those I
really sit with those moments when I hear about something,
(44:20):
I'm like, again, like it's and those are the only
stories that you know, we see on TV that are
lucky enough to make it across our screen and get
some actual airtime. But there's so many other, so many
other incidents where they're I mean, they're just left on
(44:40):
the hush. Yeah, they don't. They don't want you to
interfere with a good boys club. You know, they've both
I mean, this is a hundred over one hundred years
of this military culture, and I think to them, they're
probably like, Okay, somebody was whether they were assaulted, this
(45:03):
is like a one off situation to them, and it
doesn't necessarily affect them. So No, they're not going to
spend the money, the manpower into looking into anything. You're
just going to cover it up because it's easier. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
How many one off situations does it take for you
to realize that this is a part of our culture,
this is what we're allowing to continue to happen. Yeah,
And I just want to say, with regard to Vanessa Geen,
like there were a lot of changes that came about
(45:40):
from her case, and they tried to strengthen even my program,
a program that I'm working under. They tried to strengthen
the sexual Assault Response and Prevention program. But even trying
to strengthen that program is kind of a drop in
the bucket from all of the like systemic issues that
(46:04):
need to change. And when I say systemic issues, I
mean even the people who were in those positions who
are allowing the systemic issues to continue to happen. Like,
that's a widespread change that needs to occur for this
program to actively be strengthened and to be effective.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah. I agree. And I didn't watch her documentary on Netflix,
but I'm going to check that out. That's definitely going
to be on my list.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
It's powerful, it's powerful, because it doesn't hold back any
punches on what the family said, you know, accurately says
was ignored and like you said, the protections that weren't
in place, or the protections that they.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Didn't do enough justice too, and just going back to
you know, being on base or in training, we're really
stripped away of all of our power. So it's not like,
you know, I can just go back home and be
in the comfort of my own home and I can
go to a family member's house or call somebody they
(47:19):
can come over. You have absolutely no power at all.
You can't even make a phone call without going up
your chain of command. I don't know how it is now,
but we couldn't even have cell phones. They were locked up.
We can only write letters, and sometimes our letters wouldn't
even get sent off home. So I couldn't call my family,
(47:42):
I couldn't call nine. I couldn't call nine one one,
and if I did, they would send the military police.
So again, no, like there it's your in some cases
you are you have to rely on, you know, And
what my chain of command looked like was the person
that assaulted me. So right, I'm just wondering, you know,
(48:07):
and looking back in Vanessa's situation, like it's just so
sad to see that so many people have failed her.
It's it's insane.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Yeah, and in that failed you, Yeah, because I want
to I want to like lift up your story as well,
like they you were failed in that in that moment
to be protected. And I'm just curious, like from your
from your view, what what do you think it's going
(48:43):
to take, Like what would you in like your wildest
imagination of how to change that system and how to
make it better, Like what would you say needs to
happen for people to be better supported in the military
and that you know, even in like localizing and in
that basic training scenario, because like you said, a lot
(49:07):
of the people who are entering at are seventeen and
they're fresh out of high school. They're you know, entering
maybe a work environment for the first time where it
is this highly physical and highly dependent, right, because like
you said, you're stripped of all power. What what what
do you think needs to change to better support people
(49:30):
going through that training, women going through that training, and
more specifically like black women going through that.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
For the first thing, more resources because going in and
you're you're and you're only a mate you're only made
aware of, you know what, kind of like the resources
that they're telling you are available. So kind of going
back peddling a little bit, I think more civilian positions
(50:04):
that aren't necessarily entwined with the military. But in my
thought process them was like, if they tell me I
can't do it, then I can't do it. I mean
I can't even go to the bathroom without asking them. Like,
you can't eat. If they tell you you can't eat,
you literally can't eat. Like there would be times when
we would go in line to get food and then
(50:25):
if somebody like spoke in that entire building, they would
make all of us throw our food out or get
out the line, and that was that we cannot eat
for that moment in the day. So yes, more civilian
positions that aren't connected to the military, so they can
then hold the military accountable. Whether that looks like contracted,
(50:47):
I don't know, but that needs to be a thing
somebody that doesn't have any ties with the military, kind
of like an auditor.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
M because I was going to say, even if they
had those positions looking in you can clean up a
life of stuff when somebody's you know, taking a look
and asking for.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
What's going on.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
But yeah, that auditor who's like having those conversations, maybe
pulling like service members aside of all ranks and having
those conversations with them. If somebody asked you, did you
get a chance to vote it's election season, did you
get an opportunity to do your civic duty to vote?
(51:30):
You know, maybe that would have been a time for
somebody to intervene. And it's like, out of all the
places or the people to deny you that right, the
military right, that is just right wild wile wile.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
But yeah, it'll you know, to I mean over one
hundred years of operating this way and you know, protecting
their people, and it will take a lot of manpower,
a lot of money, a lot of resources. But it's possible.
I mean the funds, they have their resources. It's really
(52:07):
just getting the right people in the right place at
the right time that want to do the work. Yeah,
and the right structure.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, absolutely so, more resources, civilian positions, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Anything else that comes to mind that would help that process, Hmmm,
I don't Yeah, I can't really think of anything out
outside of that, but I'll be more than welcomed you know,
throw some ideas in your way. When I think about it,
since you're in this position, which I think is so dope,
(52:45):
and it's so therey needed.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I think that there is there is a want for
this program to be more, to be more powerful. Power
is not even word to be more impactful. It's just
when you are creating these when you're creating these programs
kind of in response to a systemic failure that in
(53:14):
that same system still exist as it always has for
one hundred years. As you mentioned, there's just it's going
to take a lot for that impact to infiltrate and
penetrate that system. So like I think it, I think
it will come. This program is still fairly new. I
(53:35):
think I think about ten years or something like that.
That it's only that it's been in existence, which seems
like a lot of years. But again, systems are going
to system and uh it is.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
It has.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
It's taken a lot incremental steps, small incremental steps to
get even the level of access that the program currently has.
So it's there's a lot in it.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, And the historically the military has always been terrible
at being prepared for situations, always reactive. So like in
terms of like this program. I mean, uh and just
technology resources. I just think of another space of being
(54:28):
innovative and thinking ahead in so just Okay, this thing happened.
Now let's try to figure out, you know, what can
we do to better positions our position ourself. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah. And that's another thing that as a civilian coming
into this, like I had a totally different view of like, oh, oh,
the military, the Department of Defense, like they have this,
they have the its budget in our entire you know,
government system, Like, oh, we're coming into some real dollars time,
(55:08):
some real impact. And when I tell you, it took me,
like it took me, what four months to get a
laptop that wasn't operating on like Windows nine.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yep, it was, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
It's a struggle my laptop. It literally took me like
forty five minutes of my day when I came in
in the morning to just get up and running till
I could access my email. I'm like, this is a wild,
a wild use of resources.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Absolutely, Like we had a saying it was hurry up
and wait because yep, a mess.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
I haven't heard that so many times and I was like,
oh no, like they're just being dramatic about it is
so freaking, it is so and it's infuriating. It's infuriating
coming from like I came from higher ed previously. A
lot of my work experience was in higher education. And
(56:11):
it depends on the school, but most of most schools
are not funded that well. You know, so you think, Okay,
you're coming from education, which historically is under resourced, underfunded,
you know, and enter this space of the military and
know what the budget looks like and who where does
(56:34):
it go because child, it doesn't go to the computers,
it doesn't go to the technology.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
M Yeah. So yeah, this is a good conversation.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I appreciated the other just kind of to wrap this
all up, thinking about everything that we've talked about, and
like I said that, I think you and like everything
that you've been through in life is just you have
such a unique vantage point, unique in the way that
(57:13):
you're in all the different parts of this that you
are tied to. But also a lot of like similarities
that I hear from a lot of people that I
had I've had these conversations with, and which is why
you know, this concept of the unwanted sorority and about
black women's unique experiences, and this is so critical for
(57:33):
people to hear because of those similarities that feel really
individual and feel really unique. But it's such a privilege
to be able to hear it and talk to you
about this stuff. But is there anything that you want
people to know about how to better support black women
or black girls?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
At the bare minimum is just to lessen and not
just you know, okay, I hear you, but but really listen.
Me and my friend we had a conversation the other
day and it was about a post on social media.
This was white person politics, but they were talking about
(58:20):
something related to like social justice, about you know, what
they were working on, and then reading the comments, which
is one of my pastime, great favorite hobbies, getting messy
in the comments.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
It's so yes, it's so sad, but it is so entertaining.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
But it was you know, comments of like people saying, well,
this is what you should be doing. And so without
going to the nitty gritty, but the conversation that I
had with my friend was, you know, oftentimes I feel
like when white people talk about issues, whether it's like
(59:03):
social justice initiatives or going and talking about like police
brutality and just talking about like what change it looks like.
Oftentimes I feel like what change looks like to them
or for them, but not listening to the voice of
the people in which these things have the most effect on.
(59:25):
So going back to this, it's just really just listening
and then trying to comprehend, like okay, and then asking
questions of how can you best support this person because
everybody's experiences are different and unique, But at the bare minimum,
(59:45):
it's just to listen, you know. Even with my current relationship,
which and I have to say that it has been
just meeting him and this being and this relationship has
been one of the best things to have happened to
me because it's provided me with a mirror to see myself,
like I'm like, damn, I really need to well, damn,
(01:00:08):
I thought I was over this, and he very much
hold me accountable. Or if I'm like, you know, keeping
to myself, I'm stonewalling and moments of just being filled
with anxiety, and you know, he very much holds me accountable.
(01:00:29):
But he is also like I think, like, you know,
I have to do the work. But then it's like
he I'm putting him in a position to where he's
doing the work with me, and so like we're in
therapy together and I'm finding out dang, like these are
really not saying that he doesn't have his mess too,
(01:00:51):
but he's willing to sort my mess out with me.
And so again listening, but also just having that community
of people to support you whatever that looks like. But
for me and for this, and I think it's just
so dope to have like people who have shared a
(01:01:14):
similar experience, because you know, when I talked about me
having that sense of community and not saying that it
has to you know, I have to only be friends
with women who have experienced assault or sexual assault. But
(01:01:34):
having people in your circle a community of people that
have shared a similar experience helps a lot. But yeah,
bare minimum is just listening and just taking that in
and some problems you don't even have to say anything,
but just sitting with someone in that moment. Sometimes that's
just all they do is someone to just sit with them,
(01:01:58):
but listening, seeing what they need. Yeah, I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
That we can have connection be a part of our
healing and we deserve that. So I'm excited to see
where this goes.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
And thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. Yeah, and
thank you for you know, reaching out to me and
keeping me in mind. And I do have to, you know,
share this with you, because just speaking to you initially
was just so impactful for me, and then reading your
dissertation and once oh you got resolutely yes, I'm good,
(01:02:34):
I'm glad. And so when I read that part about me,
it made me realize, like, because and the moments that
you know, I spoke with you, and then even you know,
past that, it wasn't until I read your dissertation that
I realized that what I went through, I blamed myself
(01:02:56):
for all of that. Like I was like, oh, well,
I shouldn't have you know, been drinking. I shouldn't have
been there, I shouldn't have done this. And then that
not only did that show up, you know, my current
life and how I viewed people or situations that may
or may not relate to what I've experienced, but it
(01:03:19):
also like showed up in my relationship too, and then
I would just be just filled with so much mistrust
in everyone. I mean, it just showed up in so
many spaces, and that made me realize that, Okay, I
still need to continue this work, and I this is
(01:03:40):
the area that I need to work on so again,
thank you. I don't think I think it would have
taken much longer for me to realize that that was
just just a huge part of my healing process. Oh,
I'm so glad to hear that. Thank you for sharing
(01:04:01):
that with me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
I can all of the dissertation interviews, all of the
interviews that I had from my dissertation, I can go
back to those like exact moments of listening to you
all to share your stories and share yourselves with me,
and I remember yours so vividly too, and I just remember,
like that stuck out to me of like you, like
how you were blaming yourself and how you were taking
(01:04:27):
ownership over other people's actions and other people's choices to.
Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Cause harm to you.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
And I'm so glad that that was something that you
got to quickly and that you were able to hear
framed from somebody else's perspective of listening to you talk
about your experience and hear it from someone else, and like,
really hear that and internalize that and let that go because,
(01:04:57):
like I said, your story is so unique, but it's
also something that we a lot of us do as survivors,
is that we in trying to figure out what our
feelings are, what our emotions are, what we're holding onto.
We try to place it somewhere, but a lot of
(01:05:17):
times we don't have a place to place it, and
so we place it within ourselves. And that is easier
for us to do because we can contain that and
we can figure out how to move beyond it. And oh,
I'm so glad to hear that you were able to
see that and have that be a part of your
(01:05:38):
healing as well, because that's just not It's not something
that anyone deserves to hold on to, landing themselves for
other people's poor decisions.
Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
So thank you, Yeah, thank you. This has been a
really good conversation for sure. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Dom so bravely shared so much of her life and
her story with me once upon a time when I
interviewed her a few years ago for my dissertation, and
this time she opened up even more and had an
opportunity to reflect on some of those key moments and
the clarity.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
That she found.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
She continued her healing journey after her assaults. So in
this final segment, Unpacking the Ritual, I want to lift
up a few elements of dom story that may ring
true for other survivors. In this segment, the first ritual
that I want to highlight is how Dom experienced sexual
violence at such a young age. According to Tonjy Reese
(01:06:55):
with the California Partnership to End Domestic Violence and the
article she wrote titled the War Against Black Girls, addressing
the adultification bias, there's a rite of passage that black
women go through before we reach adulthood, and that coming
to the realization that people may treat us like we're
twice our age. Some more responsibility that could look like
(01:07:19):
kids raising kids, being forced to adopt household duties. This
burden of self protection, you know, when you're told to
stop being fast when you're literally just living your life.
And it's as if the unwanted attention that our bodies
receive as they proceed to naturally grow and develop is
(01:07:43):
somehow our fault. Don noted what could be one of
the long term consequences of black girls being socialized or
raised in our society to adopt that responsibility early. She
talked about how she was still even to this day,
making responsibility for everyone's comfort in her life, including those
(01:08:04):
who committed sexual harm and abuse against her. Healing for
dam included coming to the realization of what she was
doing and that it went against.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
What she knew was helpful for her.
Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
But she noted that she just kind of couldn't help
that instinct to make sure other people were comfortable first
before thinking about what she needed and what she deserved.
So this may be a ritual that many of us
here are here from ourselves and have experienced ourselves. And
I want to give a shout out to doctor Aria S. Halliday,
(01:08:39):
author of the Black Girlhood Studies Collection, for putting together
this groundbreaking collection of works that dive into the theories
of Black girls in black girlhood, including how race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class, religion,
and nationality impact Black girls in and outside of school
(01:09:00):
and within urban settings. One chapter specifically titled Self Care
and Community Black Girls Saving Themselves Doctor Caroline Cultifalter and
Carmelisha Alexander is called to memory and thinking about Dom's experiences.
(01:09:21):
They talk about how the stigmatization of mental health treatment
seeking in black communities negatively affects black girls who may
benefit from that form of support, and how black girls
often take matters into their own hands. They suggest that
black girls often find and establish self care practices based
(01:09:41):
on inclusive communities informing them of mental health issues and
how to utilize healthy behaviors as a means of coping.
As Tanji mentioned, black girls can also land on unhealthy
ways of coping as they fight every day to quote,
do the right thing and follow the rules, while society
(01:10:02):
still challenges them by forcing them to defend themselves against
grown men cat calling them, and still being forced to
be polite and respect their elders. And Tanji mentioned in
her article that she quote learned to use my word,
my body, my mind, and my love as both the
weapon and shield and for dom. She mentioned the terms
(01:10:26):
stonewalling and disassociation when talking about how she coped with
the trauma of her assaults even into her young adulthood,
and so just so we're all kind of operating with
the same understandings and definitions. Stonewalling is a term that
refers to a persistent refusal to communicate or to express emotions.
(01:10:48):
It's common during conflicts when people may stonewall in an
attempt to avoid uncomfortable conversations, or out of fear that
engaging in an emotional discussion will result in a fight.
It's also thought to occur on a continuum, ranging from
refusing to discuss a problem for a brief period of
(01:11:09):
time to completely withdrawing from months and What we also
know about trauma survivors, however, is that dissociation may be
closely aligned. What one may read a stonewalling and a
conversation or interaction with a partner or a friend or
family may be a trauma response. Dissociation, however, is a
(01:11:32):
human phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Expressed by all people.
Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
According to the National Institutes of Health, trauma survivors experience
higher rates of dissociation and may utilize it as an
escape when there's no physical escape from trauma. The International
Society for the City of Trauma and Association defines it
as quote a process in which a person disconnects from
(01:11:57):
their thoughts, feelings, memories, behavior, yours, physical sensations, or sense
of identity, and these symptoms can show up in a
number of different ways. I'm going to give you a
brief rundown on a few of these categories, but I
encourage you to take a deeper dive into The International
Society for the Study of Trauma and Association's website linked
(01:12:20):
in the show notes as well as follow up a
specific mental health provider to find out more information if
you're curious about this, if it's something you've experienced yourself.
These categories include number one deep personalization, which is a
dissociation from yourself or your body. Number two derealization, where
(01:12:41):
you feel as if your external world is not real
or is being changed in some way. It's thought to
create kind of a mental distance to help someone who's
experienced trauma survive. Number three dissociative amnesia, which are kind
of memory gaps for getting parts or all of a
traumatic event, and so for a sexual assault survivor, dissociate
(01:13:08):
of amnesia can be a major survival tactic for one's
ability to continue on with their everyday life. And with Dom,
we heard her describe these really powerful ways that she
was able to navigate healing and the effects of her
black girlhood while understanding her needs as she enters black womanhood,
and she gave herself space and time.
Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
She also found healing in connecting with others. First, it
was her friend who she was able to hear reflect
back to her, which she had built up all these
protective walls around regarding her dramatic experience, and then it
was her partner and she was able to share what
was happening in her space and in her life and
(01:13:51):
how she was navigating it. She even said in our conversation,
you think you're good, but you're really not until you
do the work. For her, that work included talking to
her partner, who she had to learn to openly communicate
with when she realized that she was safe enough to
do so with him, and then her therapist, who helped
(01:14:13):
her to learn how to be more empathetic towards herself
and what she was experiencing and how she survived. And
so as we wrap up, I want to lift up
one of Caroline and care Malicious co researchers, Nikisha, who
shared the following quote in their chapter. Self care means accountability, respect, love,
(01:14:36):
and liberation. It means holding yourself accountable to attain the
love you deserve and leaving toxic behavior behind, which leads
to respecting and loving yourself without fear. So as you
sit with that definition, I want you to take a
second and think what self care looks like for you.
Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
What did it mean for you as.
Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
A black girl? What does it mean for you today
as a black woman, and if you're not necessarily a
member of the Unwanted Sorority, then you personally fall outside
the demographics of this show. That's okay, even as a
guest in this space, there's still ways that you've been
able to engage in self care and how that's changed
and shaped and shifted, how you have continued to grow
(01:15:21):
and learn more about yourself. So I invite you to
think about all of those ways that you have changed
and self care has changed for you over the years.
I can't wait to hear from y'all. Let us know
what's working for you at the Unwanted Sorority on Instagram
and TikTok. And until next time, take care of yourself,
(01:15:42):
take care of one another, and release whatever shame regilt
you may be feeling about the harm that's been done
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive producd bmy Lean
ter Tate, Our executive producer is Joel Money, our producer
is Carmen Loren, and original cover art is created by
Savannah Yuler. I would also like to have special thanks
to the iHeart Podcast Next Up program for helping bring
the show to life. Also, all of the guests who
have taken a step in sharing their story with you
all on these episodes. And finally, to all the members
(01:16:22):
of the sorority who will never tell their story. We
see you and your story matters.
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