July 24, 2025 • 61 mins
Resources & Mentions
Tarana Burke interviews with The Current and The Grio
“Unbound: My Story of Liberation and the Birth of the Me Too Movement” by Tarana Burke
“Black Activist Mothering: Teach Me About What Teaches You” by Jacqueline Roebuck Sakho
"Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment" by Patricia Hill Collins
"Community Mothering: The Relationship Between Mothering and the Community Work of Black Women" by Arlene E. Edwards
Understanding the Cycle of Abuse
Amani Community Services- Black Power & Control Wheel and Black Equality & Respect Wheel)
me too. Healing Resource Library
RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline – Call 800-656-HOPE (4673)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, Welcome to another episode of the Unwanted Sorority podcast.
(00:07):
I'm your host, Lea Tramp. This is a space created
for and by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks
who have experienced sexual violence.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Whether you've lived it, love.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Someone who has, or simply you want to hold space,
you are welcome here. On this week's episode, we're giving
flowers to the one and only Missus Tronta Burke, who
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Most of you know, but do you really know her story.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You'll also hear from someone I hold near and dear
to my heart, and let's settle into the meaning behind
this little clip.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
But I don't want it to take control over me
and how I interact with people, because it definitely has also,
so this is all part of just trying to be
a whole.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Meet as a reminder, the Unwanted Sorority is a space
for community connection and care, but it is not a
suitable substitute for professional mental health, medical or legal sport.
If anything you hear today resonates in a way that
feels heavy, I encourage you to reach out to someone
you trust or a licensed clinician. You deserve to feel
(01:09):
whole and you deserve to be supported. While we may
all have heard about or saw the hashtag me too
back in twenty seventeen when the hashtag went viral, it
(01:31):
took months for many of us to hear the credit
being given to the original creator of the phrase as
it was being used, and it took even longer for
this icon's name to become part of our lexicon of
movement makers in the anti sexual violence movement.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So Dorona J.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Burke, a proud Bronx, New York native, began her work
as a community organizer in the.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Late nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Her first community organizing initiative was a youth leadership organization
called twenty first Century Youth Leadership Movement. She led and
participated in efforts that focused on police brutality, housing inequality,
and economic justice through her work with that organization. During
this time, she also endured and was recovering from the
(02:19):
emotional turmoil of her own sexual abuse. Toronto was raped
at seven years old by an eighteen year old man
who went on to become a New York City police officer.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
She recalls the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
During an interview with People magazine in twenty twenty one,
where she confronted him mentally over four decades later, as
she attended an event in the housing community they grow
up in.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
She states, you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Don't even know me. How dare you not know me?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I've thought about you nearly every day since I was seven,
and you have the luxury of looking right through me.
It's just not fair. She expanded on this in her
book Unbound, My Story of Liberation and the Birth of
the Me Too Movement, which I highly highly recommend you
grab and read because it's an incredible retelling of Toronto's
(03:12):
story and the development of what we understand as the
Me Too movement. And it opens with this really incredible
scene of her seeing this hashtag go viral of the
work that she had been pouring into for years prior.
So yeah, check it out. Taranta mentioned that she never
(03:32):
told her parents about being raped because of a fear
that her stepfather would hurt her rapist. At the time
of writing her book, she was not in a space
where she wanted to directly confront her rapists. She said
that she felt what was most important to her is
what she tells all survivors that she works with. My
responsibility is to survive and survive and thrive is exactly
(03:56):
what she did, organizing an advocacy work where essential aspects
of her work throughout college and her professional life actually
turned towards supporting survivors of sexual violence. When she graduated
and she began working in Selma, Alabama for the twenty
first Century Program. As I mentioned before, she encouraged dozens
(04:17):
of black girls with stories of sexual violence, abuse, and expectation.
All of these were stories that she personally identified with,
so as a twenty two year old, she met a
young woman named Heaven when she was working at a
summer camp in Alabama. Heaven was around twelve at the
time and confided in Tronta that she had been sexually
(04:38):
abused by her mother's boyfriend. Taranta didn't exactly know how
to help her in that moment, and as a survivor
of sexual assault, it can be triggering to receive someone
else's story when you may not have processed or worked
towards healing yourself. Tarana knew that she wanted to work
with black girls like Heaven, and it prompted her to
(04:59):
address her own trauma so that she could be well
enough to help other survivors address theirs. Toronta realized that
too many girls were trying their best to survive without
access to resources, safe spaces, and support. So in two
thousand and five, she created just Be Incorporated, an organization
committed to the empowerment and wellness of black girls. And
(05:22):
so this is kind of where me too was born.
In an interview with The Currents Matt Galloway in twenty
twenty one, Tronta said it didn't have a name yet,
but it was the beginning of really starting this journey,
the journey being one in which she says, quote, I'm
trying to tell survivors that me too is first and
(05:43):
foremost for us. We look at each other and say, oh,
that happened to you, It happened to me too. We
empower each other and then it's a declaration to the world.
But before we declare it to the world, we declare
it to each other. A hashtag me too went viral
in twenty seventeen after actress Alissa Milano tweeted a suggestion
(06:06):
for people who had experienced sexual assault to share it.
Following the allegations of sexual assault and rape against Hollywood
film producer Harvey Weinstein. Toronta immediately grew concerned. She was
worried about the possibility and truly the inevitability of erasure
of her very intentional efforts to center black girls who
were survivors of sexual assault.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
In the phrase me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Too, she recalled feeling like there was no way people
were going to think that this forty four year old
black woman from the Bronx had already been doing this
work and spreading the me to movement for over a
decade beforehand. So while her concern was warranted at the time,
her work for what it was, a concerted effort to
(06:48):
push for support and opportunities for connection for black girls,
also took on a larger meeting for her as she
realized that the black girls she knew and the survivors
coming out in Hollywood after the Harvey Weinstein case broke
all needed the same things. She's quoted as saying, what
(07:09):
survivors need is universal. They needed to be heard, they
needed to be seen, and they needed to be supported.
Toronta was finally given her deserved credit as a global
leader in the anti sexual violence movement. She placed the
focus back on survivors and the need for survivors centered
survivor led solutions Tarana uses her platform to share the
(07:33):
messages that healing is possible, survivors are leaders an ending
sexual violence has to be a social justice priority. In
twenty eighteen, Tronta founded me Too International, which is a
global nonprofit organization that guides the vision for the Me
Too movement, and her organization takes her vision to spaces
(07:54):
at center and address systems that perpetuate sexual violence, specifically
against black We are trans disabled in all communities of color,
and they have really amazing programming, So I highly recommend
you seek them out and take a look at what
they're doing. So I want to give a shout out
to Toronta for recognizing in heaven the inner black girl
(08:15):
in so many of us who also has a story
and for giving us space to explore that through this
viral hashtag and to make sense of something that can
feel so isolating. So thank you to Dorana for being
one of the founders for the Unwanted Sorority. Today's guest
(08:40):
is a perfect match with Toronto's story. After going through
her own healing journey of being sexually abused as a child,
Erica found strength in telling other black girls that they
were not alone, that black women can grow and thrive
despite the harm caused by their abusers, and most importantly,
(09:01):
that they could heal as well. So I can't wait
for you to hear Erica's story. So let's get into
this conversation. Hey, y'all, just a quick heads up, the
audio quality is not the best. Erica was my very
first guest on Mike, but the content is amazing and
I'm so excited for you to enjoy this episode with Erica.
(09:24):
So I am just going to start off by having
you introduce yourself. So who are you?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
My name is Erica, and I'm from a small city
in Pennsylvania and I'm just here today as a mother
of a sun and as an accounting professional and someone
who is just wanting to share their story and their
journey of overcoming the experiences I have in life.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So when you say the experiences you have in life,
what do you feel comfortable sharing? What does that mean
to you? And kind of how do you connect that
to what you consider this concept of the unwanted sorority
to be.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
So for me, I'm at a point in my life
where I just feel like I haven't shared or said
anything out loud, and I'm out of a space where
I want to just heal in all areas and be
a better version of me. And I feel like without
me actually sharing who I am or just saying it
(10:27):
out loud, that I can't I haven't fully accepted it.
And so this is the opportunity for me to pretty
much get to that space. And I think that's why
I'm at this point of now wanted to share that
I would, you know, sectually abuse when I was younger
and then again as a teenager, and so initially feeling
(10:53):
that I'm being connected to this group of a sorority. Also,
I feel like this is a group that gets overlooked, abandoned,
left unheard. So initially when I hear that, that's what
I think of, But now I feel like it's the
opportunity for me to be connected to a group of
(11:16):
women who share similar experience or men who have may
have the same story as me, a place for us
to get held, a place to be acknowledged and heard
and basically see that they're not the only one and
that they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Absolutely, And I think that's one of the biggest goals
of this show. You know, That's what I hope people
get from it, But I also, uh, you know, I
think it's important to know what it looked like for
those of us who maybe haven't talked about it for
a long time. We all come to this place at
(11:52):
different times where we are ready to talk and where
we're ready even to receive that's so that we can heal.
So I'm just curious for you what did that look like?
What did healing look like? Did it look like anything
up until this point where you haven't really talked much
about it?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So no, and I think there's always been a part
of me that needed to get to this point is
just what was the matter of when it was going
to happen? And I think it all sten for initially
when I wanted to speak out about it, I didn't
have the space to do so. So when this first
happened to me, I was about eight years old and
(12:34):
I was just, you know, a curious kid at the time,
and I had some relatives who knew that I was
very playful and that I was always curious and you know,
wanted to do things, and so they took advantage of
that because they were like, oh, you know, let's play
a game. And little did I know that this game
involved them actually touching me and doing things that they
(12:57):
were not supposed to, and I don't think I realized
that it was actually sexually sexual abuse at the moment
at that time when it happened to me, until later
on that night. I was in like pain down in
that area, and you know, was in discomfort, and I'm like,
you know, what the heck like? And then I remember
(13:19):
my mom ended up climbing you know, some of my
underclothes and it had you know, blood in them, and
so she was asking me question. She just thought, Oh,
I was riding my bike at the time because and
you know, I had a one of one of those
bikes that had the bar in the middle that really
wasn't supposed to be for females. It was more like
(13:40):
a mint bike, and that I fell and hurt you know,
my parts on that, and so then it was kind
of like, okay, and I was in a sake.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Cre this whole storyline.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, And so I was kind of like confused and
you know, mixed emotions about it. But then again at
the same time, it was kind of like okay, when
I mentioned that after you know, to the relatives that
did that, that I was gonna end up talking about
it because I'm like, oh, I don't like the game
we played, because I don't like how I felt in
(14:11):
all this, And then it was like it was a
hush has secret. And I come from a family where
you don't speak about things that happen and you keep
it only in a family. And sometimes that meant if
it didn't, if it didn't if you didn't share anything
that anybody wanted to hear, they did not want to
hear it or allow you a space to speak about it.
(14:33):
And so I was kind of hushed and shut up
at that time. So I didn't want to speak about it,
and I hadn't spoke about it. And then moving on
to an ifa and teenaged years, my mother was married
to an individual and he was very manipulative and we
didn't have much money at the time, and he used
(14:56):
that as a way to get sexual favors out of
me by staying, you know, if you didn't do this
or didn't do that, like you guys would be homeless
because I would leave your mother and she wouldn't have
money and it would be all your fault. Home at
that time a little bit older, but I was upset
(15:18):
with my mom because I felt like as a mother,
she should have picked up on something not being right
mha time, and I felt like she knew, but she
kind of ignored it because maybe because of the situation
of knowing that she would be less to take care
(15:38):
of these three daughters that she had with barely much
at the time. So I felt like it was overlooked,
and I just felt like my mom shouldn't something wasn't right,
and if she did, she did not want to acknowledge it.
And so when you have somebody who you play for
(15:58):
all your chest in and you look up to them,
and they don't give you the space to acknowledge ruck
similars or that something is wrong, like who can you
trust them? So I never spoke about it because I
felt like when I did, or were trying to show
my mom find that this was happening, she didn't want
(16:20):
to acknowledge them. So I feel like as we got older,
as I got older, I finally my mom and told
my mom, and I uncovered that some things had happened
to her, and so it was a scary situation for
her to believe that it was happening to her children now,
(16:41):
So it put more things in perspective on why at
that time she didn't. But when I was young, that
wasn't something that I wanted to hear.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I just wanted protection.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, So that was that, And like I said, I
went and you know, I'm at a place now where
I can actually say that I wanted to talk about
it and share because I think that it is a
part of the healent process.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, well, thank you, thank you for sharing that. I
think in both instances you were trying to see the
good side and the people that were around you and
the people who you know, we're kind of raised, especially
culturally in the black community, we are right like your
(17:32):
family is everything, family's first blood before anything, and when
that is abused, when that is taken advantage of as
is it can be, it puts us in these positions,
especially as children, where you have to make really difficult
decisions and you have to like wrestle with a lot
(17:54):
of really hard emotions. Did when you were sixteen, When
you were around that age, did you feel like you
had support, Maybe not even from the sexual trauma that
was happening, but just support, because it sounds like you
were put in a position where you almost have to
you had to be an adult in a lot of
ways to help take care of the family. Did you
(18:15):
get support in any of those other ways?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No, I mean I was the oldest child, and it
did get to a point where I'm basically in the
beg of my mom or totter with like it was
me or him, And I said, if I have to
get a job right at fifteen to help, you know,
pay these bills so that way he can be out
of here. Like That's what I did, And that's what
it ended up coming down through is I had to
(18:42):
stop start working super early, probably earlier than I would
have wanted to, but make sure that you had enough
income coming in and that we could actually be on
our own. But support wise, no, because my mom would
married to a man outside of her race and the
family was not happy about that already. And I remember
(19:04):
my grandmother saying, like he doesn't seem right for you,
like I don't get any good buyes when he's around,
And so because of that she had stopped talking, said
my mom for a while, and so she was our
support system, and that was a place that we would
go through all the time. But when that was happening,
we were across town and we weren't over at my
(19:26):
grandmother that much, so the supports that's been out we
would have had kind of disappeared because they had that
rift between them and her getting married and who she
was married to. So no, the support wasn't there at
that age. I was still trying to figure it out.
So even trying to communicate my feelings was just me
just acted out out of rage anger. So of course
(19:49):
that would have meant rightfully, so I wasn't. You know,
they sent me to the counselor a couple of times,
but you know that wasn't really a support. There's not
but morpho trying to just manage the behavior that I
was displaying at that time. So yeah, there was the.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Art what led to that situation.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That all reminds me of a cycle of abuse. So
it talks about how abusers, who it sounds like your
mother was also experiencing some of that. Abusers kind of
go through these phases where they hold things against you
and then they know maybe are providing you with the
(20:32):
resources that you need, and then they get right back
into the abuse, and it's this cycle. But there's actually
a cycle of abuse that has this kind of cultural
component to it, and it talks about the cycle of
abuse and how that looks in the black community. And
I think we don't hear that talked about enough because
(20:53):
a lot of times it starts with abuse in our childhood,
abuse when we're young, and then me orient it again
as we get older, and then we experience it again
in adulthood and our adult relationship. So we're going through
this lifetime cycle of abuses black women that starts, unfortunately
for a lot of us, in our childhood, and again
(21:14):
we have to deal with those really adult decisions where
it's either me or your husband who is abusing you
from what it sounds like, and abusing your children. And
when we're used to that cycle of abuse throughout our lives,
it could be hard to find those spaces to get
out of it because we're so used to that cycle.
(21:36):
I talked about it in my research. Actually I talked
about it in terms of the socialization of trauma. We're
like socialized to see a lot of this as normal.
And just like you said, like you see your community
or you see your family as that place where you
maybe have gotten support, and then when that gets cut off,
when that is abused, when that's taken advantage of you
(21:57):
find that elsewhere, But yeah, I mean really it's really
tough to hear, and I'm sorry that you experience that,
but I'm happy that you were in this place where
you're ready for the healing journey. What do you what
does that look like to you?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Like?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Is this the start of it? What has have you
started elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I think I'm kind of at the cycle where I'm
I started it previously when I first went to go
see a therapist, and I think at that point I
was ready to share, but I thought I was more well.
I thought I was more ready than I really was
(22:38):
at that point of sharing and just making that connection
to those feelings, because when I started to get to
that point, I was overwhelmed with the feelings and I
just had the nightmares and going through that cycle of
just singing that. And then when I was actually going
through the Countland sessions, I had seen my mom's that husband,
(23:01):
and I just froze with a whole.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
At the place that you get in counseling. You saw
him at the place that you gated in counseling.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
No, No, I was leaving. I had left the session,
and I had seen him when I was driving, and I, yeah,
it was just I think it set me back because
I went back to being very closed off again. And
I think I was just shocked because at that moment,
we had hall thought that he was gone and wasn't
(23:31):
here because he had got in some trouble for something
to down the road, and so I just would think
I was just shocked because last I knew he was
in prison, and then to see him out and leaving
counseling like that just threw me for a whole worldway
and I didn't know how to deal with that. So
I stopped going at that time because it was just
(23:52):
too much for me. And so that's why I thought
I was ready, but then that happened and then I
just close off, got closed off all again. So I
did that, and you know, so I was getting to
that spot and then I realized there were some things
that I had, you know, forgotten, because obviously I know
(24:15):
when you were when you experienced trauma, like you tend
to close out parts of your life for age. You know,
there was times where it's like I just legit cannot remember.
But I think it was all related to that me
just trying to get it out of my mind, try
to get it out of my head of what had happened.
(24:35):
And so there was those gaps of you know, time
that I don't truly remember things, and so that's another
part is just like wanting to get back to a
spot where I can say I'm looking back on this
and yes I experienced this, but I don't want it
to take control over me and how I interact with people,
because it definitely has also hindered some relationships I had
(24:58):
as well too. So this is all part of just
trying to be a whole me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Absolutely, I love that being a whole me. I'm gonna
write that down. That might be the title of your episode,
to be honest, So what does that look like? What
does it look like to be a whole you?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I've been getting to a part where, first and foremost
I wanted to get to a part where I'm actually
able to share my story and I'm not going to
say not have any emotions to it or be able
to just speak it and be like, hey, I really
truly overcame this, and I want to be able to
share it and let you know, not be so overwhelmed
(25:41):
with emotions and also wanting it to be able to
be a better meat for that way, when I'm having relationships,
one of the things that definitely plays a part in it, streuss.
So it's not even just like what personal relationships any
type of person I want to get close to me,
I'm always like why because that was taken advantage of
and so you got close to me to do what
(26:01):
to hold this over my head or to say what
you did for me? And so that is something as
part of this journey of healing is to know that
there are truly people out there who do want to
be because I feel like if I don't allow myself
to get to a point where I can trust other people,
how can I have the support if it is there anyway,
because then I wouldn't be willing to accept it truly
(26:24):
if I don't trust them. So I think this is
all just part of it. I feel like I'm close
to being where I want to be, but I definitely
have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, And I mean I think that's also like something
to just remind yourself that that is the life, that's
the life work. That's not the right now, that's not
you know a year from now. That's the life work.
You're gonna constantly go through these spaces where you are
just improving and building on that, but being able to
(26:57):
come on this podcast assent sharer in talk about it
in this way and yeah, we may have emotions around
our story and we may get emotional, but like we're
here right and and we're building on that, and we're
taking control of our story, and we're taking the opportunities
(27:19):
to focus on what we need as opposed to what
somebody may have taken from us or what someone may
have done to us. And it doesn't diminish who we are,
It doesn't change the value that we have. But you're
you're becoming who you are, and that's that's the life work.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I love that that phrase and the way that you're
thinking about what healing looks like to you, but also
what you need in this moment. So have you I know,
like a part of this you said was about trying
to come into this around the community that might build
(27:59):
from this show, But have you built your own community
around people who have experiences or people who may have
similar traumas, or people who have had some sort of
trauma who have shared that and been open with you
about it. Have you built some community around that in
your in your life right now?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think some of the younger women, and it kind
of just happened because you know, there's so I forget
exactly what the topic was that it was about. Basically
when you, as a woman, look like you're so established
and that you didn't have anything that you ever had
to go to or overcome, and it was kind of
like with some of the young women, like, no, there
(28:41):
definitely is a lot that I overcame. Everybody looked out
like they have everything together doesn't always mean that they
do have it together. And so I definitely have shared,
you know, like I said, bits and pieces with different
younger women. I think that when you have experienced abuse
yourself is kind of you kind of pick up on
(29:03):
if something has happened to another individual or the way
they respond to different things. And so I think I
have had some relationships like that with some of the
younger women just because you know, I see something or
I hear something that I was like, Okay, that sounds
like something I went through, or the way you express
yourself that way, or you know, pick up on different
(29:24):
you know, actions or things of how you know, people
may have went through some of the same things, so
I have that, and then most recently, I have had
other cousins than family members who have said that that
same family member that did those things to me had
done it to them, And so we have uncovered that
this was something that was happening in the family, but
(29:46):
because no one talked about anything to anybody else, this
person just kept doing it to different family members. And so,
you know, we were discussing that, and they were saying,
you know how they don't think that, you know, they
would be able to talk about it because they don't want,
you know, their mothers or whatever to feel a certain
(30:08):
way about sharing their story. But and I actually had
my cousins say, well, why are you finally getting for
a place to talk about it? And I said, because
I think that there's a certain power in truth and
testimony and sharing those things. And you know, sometimes I
can't be afraid to share my story based upon how
it's going to make somebody else feel, because it's about
(30:29):
me and how I'm feeling right now, and I don't
want to disrespect anybody else by sharing my story. But
it's important to share my story because it's my story.
And so Yeah, I've connected with some of my other
you know, family members who have you know, experienced some
of the same thing. But like I said, I'm just
getting to that point of wanting to accept being that
(30:53):
support or you know, that sense of community. I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think with this, with sharing and with talking about it,
it is so against.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What is expected of us.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
And when we do, when we do kind of own
our power, when we own our story, when we take
control of it. It's scary to other people, especially family members,
for those who haven't who haven't experienced it, but especially
for those who have, so who knows like it may
be you may be you know, kind of changing the
(31:27):
course of your family members and how they choose to
go about healing on their own. Do you know what
they may have done in the past, Like if they've
gone on any sort of healing of their own around this,
Like what did they do? No?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
In fact, I think that was what you were talking about.
Is like getting to that place because one cousin in particular,
you know, having this conversation or her of like I'm
so toxic, you know, and relationships and stuff like that,
and I think it's stem frum what has happened to me, like, yeah,
that's definitely where I was at at one point in time,
and that's why I was like, I need to like
(32:05):
get a hold of it. I need to, you know,
start this journey for myself. M hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
That's a beautiful thing, especially you being open about it.
And I know you said that you kind of I
don't know if you you want to use the term,
but I know that you've kind of been in like
a role model position for younger women that you've heard
who may have some of these characteristics that you see
if maybe they've had you know, they've dealt with abuse
(32:33):
in the past, or you know, maybe they're in the
position where they really have grown family members and parents
who are depending on them to help contribute to the household,
those sort of things. What has that been like for you?
Have you found some like power in that and being
a role model and being able to like help these
young women. Has that helped you with like healing in
(32:55):
your own way?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I guess I didn't see it that way. I mean,
not a you're you know saying it, you know, but
I I don't know. I guess sometimes I don't give
myself as much credit as others do. And so I
definitely did not see it that way because I'm just
thinking like, oh, we just you know, have something to
relate to. But I don't know, I mean, I haven't
(33:20):
thought about it that way.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You were absolutely her role model.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You are absolutely helping, uh because I feel like you're
also helping change the culture.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right, Like, imagine if.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You had been able to have somebody talk to you, like,
what do you think that would have felt like for you,
somebody who recognized you know, maybe you just needed somebody
to say, I see you, you don't like this is
not okay if you want to talk about it, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I definitely, yeah, definitely did need it to hear that.
I mean, I think my thing was more so like
a fan, I hear you, I see you. But the
biggest thing was, you know, being asked what happened? What changed?
Like because I was a person like I said nice
(34:10):
playfauld and I went from that overnight to just being
so mean and stand offish and all of that. And
so yeah, I definitely would have wanted or to have
that question be asked and me, I think that would
have maybe at that time changed some things and wouldn't
allow me to get to a space of going so
(34:33):
many years of just being this coldhearted person yes and
like closed off because that's not what I wanted to
be at all. But that was the way that I
had to deal with this because I wasn't presented the
opportunity to say, hey, what happened, or hey I see you,
or I know that it's it and definitely know that
(34:55):
it was not my fault, because that's all I kept hearing,
like oh if you didn't there, definitely is your fault.
And then I think that moment of you know, having
even my mom being like, well, you should have told me,
and I'm like, well, we did tell you, like I
did not rather you wanted to hear it or not
like we did tell you. So that part of me
(35:16):
not having a space to be able to say like, oh,
you're you're asking me, but you're truly not wanting to
listen to what I have to say, because that's a
big deal too. So I don't know. If I had that,
definitely it would have been better. But now that you know,
I'm realizing, like by me having those conversations with those
(35:38):
young ladies that yeah, I think that's another reason why
I think it's it's important to share my story because
I'm looking at it as okay, maybe you know, like
I said, just knowing that you're not the only one
out here and that it shouldn't be anything to be
ashamed of and that it will be an ongoing journey
(36:00):
to get through in the continue to work it out.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that's that's so powerful. That's so that's really powerful.
You know, I know that you you kind of said
that you are towards the start, you've kind of started
already on your journey, but like there's there's definitely more
to come for you and the impact that you're going
to have on these young women and who knows how
many people who are either listening to this show or
(36:26):
you know that you're going to have one on one
personal connections with.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Throughout your life. But just getting to this point.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yourself of knowing it was not your fault, no, you know,
decisions that these people who decided to abuse you or
who decided to you know, commit this violence towards you.
Nothing that you did made them do. That that's powerful
for for anyone to hear. And I'm you know, I'm
glad that you got to that point in being able
to tell yourself that if you hadn't heard it from
(36:56):
anybody else, being able to convince yourself of that is,
you know, amazing. It's a testament to the self work
that you've done.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, it's not completely odd to me. I think me
having some of those sessions, you know what the therapists
did allow me to get to that point, like I said,
and I think now it's just a matter of continuing
on that where I kind of let off and like
finishing that out, because it's one thing to know what
(37:27):
you went through, but I think just saying it out
out loud and acknowledging it is another thing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's a whole different other thing. Yeah, And I think
that's also like you know, like we were saying earlier
that you know, that could change at different points in
our lives, like how that feels to say it out loud.
It can It can feel good now, and it cannot
feel good ten.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Years from now.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
We've kind of talked about the young people that you
work with or have talked to about this, But what
else do you think is important for people to know
about how to better support black girls or black women
who experience this type of trauma.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
First, I think it's important too, because I heard this
a lot that we always uh, well, there's people who
automatically think that you were the you were the cause
of what happened to you, And I think that's the
first day and they first want to say, well that
some o the people that I know experience on this
said oh, well, look what she was always wearing, or
(38:35):
look what she was doing or where she was hanging out,
And I think that that is no way. First of all,
we need to stop doing blameing the victim for the
reason that things happened. It shouldn't matter what they were wearing,
how they were dressed, where they were at, what they
were doing, because they did not ask for this to
happen to them. So I think initially we need to
(38:57):
get out of the when we hear this stuff or
when someone tries to share, that shouldn't be our first question,
well what was you doing or what you know, what
were you wearing or any of that, because then that
implies that it was the person's fault. So the only
so to be able to compose someone who has went
through something, we need to really just acknowledge their feelings
(39:18):
and what has happened to them, and not so much
focused on what led to that to happen. So that
would be one of the things that I think would
be important is because that definitely will stop a person
if they were going to share anything, from sharing things
because you're already judging, and so we just need to
(39:41):
get to a place. I think it is important too
and then check on women and truly be there for
them and show that you're invested in what they have
to say, because I think we get in a habit
a lot of time is just asking. But for me
as a woman, we already have so much on our plate,
some of us that are mothers, some of them that
(40:03):
you know are trying to wear any different hats you know,
as a wife, as a whatever your profession. And so
I think that is important that we do not only
we ourselves do a self check and self care, but
other people that surround us, so that when you ask
us how we are doing or what is bothering us
or whatever, that you truly are investigating what we're about
(40:25):
to say or what we have to say to know
that we have those faith those faith faces to be
able to do so, because I think we carry so
much and we just need to be able to have
that place to just yes and you know, take a
moment that actually really, you know, say what's going on.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yes, Oh that's so important. Actually check in on somebody,
but listen, not just ask the questions, but listen to
what they need. People do a whole lot of talk,
and I think that's why, to me, at least, this
show is so important and it's so needed because black women,
you said it at the beginning, we don't get to
(41:10):
see ourselves in this conversation. It's a whole lot of
white women who get centered when we're talking about sexual violence.
But black women we are just expected to have this resilience,
which I have a love hate relationship with that word,
(41:31):
but we are just expected to have this resilience where
we get we can get over it, we can get
through anything.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
We can put the cape on and.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
We can be fine.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And sometimes a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Of times we need to take that cape off and
we need to relax, and we need somebody else to
put the cape on for us. And if we don't
have people who are doing that, we will put the.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Cape on for each other and we will cover each other.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
But we need more people like you said, to actually
check in on us because we can't do it all
the time, and we can't do it by ourselves.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, nor shall we be expected to. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
And so you said that you're a mother, what has
this looked like for your child? Like, what does this
look like from that mother's perspective? This concept of the sorority,
the unwanted sorority, how it kind of you know is
in our community the impact? What does that look like
from a mother's perspective. Well, I know, the the honesty
(42:30):
as far as mother aing go. Because of what I
went through, it definitely has been a struggle for me.
I feel like because of the love that I didn't
get or experience.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And the things that sometimes it was kind of hard
to you know, path that to my child, which I'm
learning to forgive myself for because I feel like I
wasn't able to give him all of the loving, the
actual like in brain thing and stuff like it. I
would have probably wanted to, but I wasn't there myself,
(43:07):
and especially when the things that happened to me, you know,
not dealing with that. I was young when I had him,
so not too long after I had went through as
a teenager, and then I ended up having a child
going through that because at that point I just felt
like maybe I would have a child. I thought, actually
having my child will give me something to you know,
(43:27):
hold on, to look forward to, but it actually end
up being the opposite because it kind of got to
a point where I was just very distant. So I
know it has affected me that way as far as
a mother, because I've been guilty or felt guilty that
I wasn't able to express myself like I felt a
parent should. Well, I went through years of that and
(43:54):
I guess I didn't get myself or feel the value
in myself and all of that, so I wasn't able
to give that to my child. So it has affected
me in that way. To my son, he thinks that
I'm the best parent in the world, but to me,
I feel like I neglected him sometimes as far as
(44:15):
with emotions and just the overall love and expressed them
to him things that I really wanted to express them
that I didn't. So he doesn't think that he was
lacking anything, but for me, I feel like I was.
So it definitely has affected me that way so much.
(44:36):
So I was devastated to even think about having any
more children, or even having a daughter to have to
experience this.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
It's still something I'm working through and that's part of
my process too, because I definitely felt guilty as far
as that goes being a mother and happened to deal
with it during this journey of healing and everything.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Oh so, as someone who has seen you and your son.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
That love is unconditional and as a mother, you deserve
the space to be human.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And part of being human is, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Taking care of yourself sometimes and realizing maybe where in
the past we may not have been what we consider
our best selves, but acknowledging and recognizing that other people
can still see that good in us when we're not
when we may not feel like we were our best.
And that's that's evident in the relationship dynamic that you
(45:48):
and your son have. And it's just I mean, you
are like one of the best mothers I've seen when
it comes to being there for her son. So I just,
you know, I just want to give you that and
let you know that you're doing the damn thing when
(46:10):
it comes to parenting. You know, it may not feel
like it may not have felt like it a you know,
at all points, but as someone who's not a mother.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
It is definitely powerful.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
To see the relationship dynamic that y'all have and it's
clear and it's evident that it is it's there, and
it's you know, well received, and that child loves you
despite it all.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
So is there anything else that you wanted to you know,
kind of final thoughts, anything else that you wanted to
say or talk through or just put into this space.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
I know, I think that this opportunity to share story
definitely a maze. Then to be able to do this
and allow just the space to talk through this, I
think is definitely something as important to bring to the
(47:12):
forefront because it's not often discussed I don't. I mean,
there might be spaces to do that, but it's not
really talked about as much as some of the other things.
And then you mentioned it before, like we definitely hear that.
There's definitely support groups and stuff like that for you know,
other things that other individuals. But I think that we
(47:32):
have to get over the fact of keeping everything quiet
and actually being empowered rather that is by hearing someone
else's story story or experiences to be able to speak
up and you know, get together to join So not
(47:52):
so much that is, so that we don't feel unwanted,
because that was definitely a big thing. I think you
got to go through and work through once the things
happened to you, to after you realize that it's not
your fault, knowing that you are still something in that
you can still be something great, and that there is
people who will still want you, because I struggle with
(48:16):
that a lot too, because I felt like tain't d
meet in a sense like you know, who's gonna want
me as it is or that, and that's not true.
A lot of the stuff that we say or we
think it's not always true, but it's just knowing that
hearing it for someone else definitely makes it a little
(48:37):
bit easier. Yeah, less someone else can confirm that you
are not this or you're not lesson or whatever because
of what has happened to you. So I think that's
important and something that should just you know, be highlighted.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Absolutely, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
And I think all a lot of times we get
to that place because we don't have anybody else or
we don't hear anybody else who's talking about it, so
we're like, oh damn, Like if nobody's talking about it,
I must be the only one, or I must be
one of the only ones, or this, you know, must
be something not just I gotta unlucky in life, and
(49:15):
this happened to me because I'm unlucky, and that's not
true at all. There's so many, so many black women
and black girls who are going through this and dealing
with this and thinking they're the only ones. And you know,
if only we just got ourselves to a place where
we could talk a little bit more about how much
this really impacts our community, then we can collectively get
(49:36):
to a space of healing. And until we get to
that place, you know, we just have to keep healing
ourselves piece by piece, healing each other as we see
those little elements in ourselves, elements in the people around us,
and make sure the we're all trying to take care
of each other because it is hard, and it's again,
(49:59):
it's that thing that we have to continuously work at,
but we will get there. And I'm so grateful to
uh to you to being on the show and taking
this opportunity to tell your story in your way and
be as you know, raw with your story.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
As you were.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's not easy to do, and you did it. Beautifully
and I just I just thank you for for being open,
being open, and thank you for sharing what healing has
looked like for you and and sharing what that journey
has looked like, because I know it's gonna it's gonna impact.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
A lot of people. I know it has already. Yeah,
thank you. And again, I just can't thank you enough
for providing a space that for ones that I actually
felt safe for that to be transparent about my story
and to share share it, because I think that's so important,
having a safe space to do so, and so I
am just thankful for that as well.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This conversation with Erica gave everything. It was emotional, it
was raw, it was encouraging, and it was powerful. I
thank her for her openness and her willingness to share.
And I want to highlight a few ideas that came
about during this discussion in our Unpacking the Ritual segment.
(51:29):
So first, Erica went in on the life work of
self improvement, and she didn't mean it in the way
of quote unquote achievements making sure other people perceive you
as hashtag life goals or anything like that. When talking
about her assault, Erica said, it happened, but I don't
(51:50):
want it to take control of me. That perspective holds
so much weight for me. It's like a coat, kind
of one in which we played no part in putting on.
What yet it's ours to carry with us throughout the rest.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Of our lives.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
So for some of us the coat is quite heavy, right.
We may stumble and struggle putting it on, struggle learning
how to navigate, how to carry this new garment that
has been bestowed upon us. For other people, the coat
maybe a garment that they turn into a statement piece
and they demand that it be seen by others in
order to make it so that this garment may never
(52:28):
be passed on to other people again, or that the
material may be more breathable for others who are going
to wear this coat, easier to work with, maybe better
able to make carrying on with our lives more possible.
And for Erica it took a while to understand how
to wear her coat. What was true for her and
(52:49):
for our founder Toronta, was that they could see the
struggle in other young black girls and women who had
this figurative coat in a way that others who had
not experience sexual abuse may not. As someone still struggling
with how to wear the coat herself. Both Erica and
Toronto knew that they were called to support.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
In a way that was greater than them getting to
this point.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Erica came to this realization, which she particulated by saying,
there is a power in truth and testimony. I don't
know that Erica would anticipate how impactful her owning her
power in that way would be for the girls that
she mentored, whose coats she made sure she saw this
concept of seeing oneself in black girls and using your
(53:38):
experience to help them navigate our social landscape. Doctor Jacqueline
Roebuck Sacho describes it perfectly, saying, quote, black activist mothering
is a labor of way showing sense making and new
knowledge production birthed by Black women as mothers, so Elder
(53:58):
doctor Sacho, which you'll understand why I refer to her
as such if you read her article titled Black Activist
mother Colon teach me about what teaches you, which I
highly encourage you to do. She breaks down what Elder
Patricia Hill Collins defines as other mothers. Other mothers is
(54:20):
a concept that dates back to the enslavement of African
Americans where care, guidance, and essentially adoption of black children
took place. Regardless of familial ties or lineage. Other mothers
hold the family infrastructure together by virtue of caring, ethics, teaching,
(54:42):
and community service. These relationships were thought to move into
a space of sacred sisterhood that binds Black women and
girls as community other mothers. Other mothers are considered to
be the backbone of the Black community. They have and
continued to hold the community through political and economic changes
(55:02):
in society, including the ever changing systemic needs of the
Black community. Therefore, Patricia holl Collins considers other mothers as activists,
and frankly, I see both Trona and Erica as other
mother activists. Who I also see as other mother activists
are folks from Amani Community Services, which is a domestic
(55:28):
violence and sexual assault agency based out of Iowa, Yes Iowa,
of all places. In twenty nineteen, this organization recognized that
Black experiences, black stories, and Black intimate partner dynamics were
not reflected in the dominant, primarily used domestic violence frameworks.
(55:51):
So Amani Community Services adapted the original power and Control
wheel from the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project, which had been
kind of like the leading domestic violence organization since the
early nineteen eighties to relate to the abuse experience within
the African American community. They realized that the experiences of
(56:13):
black survivors did not relate to the original power in
Control wheel. They conducted focus groups in twenty nineteen where
black victims of domestic violence shared some tactics that were
more specific to their experiences, such as manipulation around tax
(56:35):
time for money and gifts, the use of colorism, reporting
to the Department of Human Services, not allowing her to
get her hair and nails done, calling her the B word,
and discouraging her from calling the police because of fear
of police brutality. So group facilitators shared the original power
(56:57):
and Control wheel along with the other power and control
wheels that were developed from these tactics that were shared
by other victims. Survivors were then given a blank wheel
and encouraged to write down their own personal experiences that
weren't identified on the original wheel. Group discussions followed with
(57:18):
survivors sharing their individual experiences. Staff then reviewed the Power
and Control Wheel activity sheets that they completed during that
time and identified common themes and the themes were then
converted onto the wheel and showed to black domestic violence
survivors to kind of be evaluated and assessed for accuracy. So,
(57:43):
as of twenty twenty two, black survivors of intimate partner
violence finally had a power and control wheel that they
could relate to that was reflective of the community and
created by the community that it was intended to serve.
The Power and Control Will also has a countertool that
details and describes what Amani Community Services refers to as quote,
(58:08):
the foundation to healthy Black love. This countertool is called
the Equality and Respect Weel and it includes eight primary
ways to identify a healthy relationship. Those include negotiations and fairness,
non threatening respect, honesty and accountability, trust and support, healthy
(58:33):
co parenting, shared responsibility, and finally, economic partnership. As Amani
Community Services notes, quote, healthy relationships can be formed when
you first understand and form self love. It is the
honoring of yourself that sets the tone and standard within
the love that is given from others. Erica actually kind
(58:57):
of mentioned this in my conversation with her, stating, you
were not this, you were not lesson because of what
happened to you. And Toronta shared the same sentiment saying
it is my responsibility to survive. So I'm curious. I
would love to hear from you all. What are your
connections with other mothers in your life? Are there specific
(59:19):
moments where you recall other mothers sharing a specific word
with you that's kind of helped you navigate it all?
Or have you been the one any other mother role
who shared specific words with black girls or fems that
you know have been impactful to them.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
Check in with us.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
I want to hear from you. You can find us
at the Unwanted Sorority on all socials, or you can
email us at the Unwanted Sorority at gmail dot com
and let me know also if you're interested in being
a roll call guest or if you want to nominate
someone for the Flowers for the Founder's segment. So until
(59:57):
next time, take care of yourself, take care of one another,
and release whatever shame or guilt you may be feeling
about the harm that's been done to you.
Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
You are not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Join us next week for a brand new episode of
The Unwanted Sorority, which will be available wherever you get
your podcast, and make sure you stay safe, stay connected,
and remember this is a safe space, not a quiet space.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive produced Emmy Leander
Tate Or. Executive producer is Joel Money, Our producer is
Carmen Loren and original cover art is created by Savannah Muler.
I would also like to be of special thanks to
the I Heard Podcast Next Up program for helping bring
the show to life. Also all of the guests who
have taken a step in sharing their story with you
all on these episodes. And finally to all the members
(01:00:55):
of the Sorority who will never tell their story, we
see you and your story matters. Nine
Oh, Welcome to another episode of the Unwanted Sorority podcast.
(00:07):
I'm your host, Lea Tramp. This is a space created
for and by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks
who have experienced sexual violence.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Whether you've lived it, love.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Someone who has, or simply you want to hold space,
you are welcome here. On this week's episode, we're giving
flowers to the one and only Missus Tronta Burke, who
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Most of you know, but do you really know her story.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You'll also hear from someone I hold near and dear
to my heart, and let's settle into the meaning behind
this little clip.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
But I don't want it to take control over me
and how I interact with people, because it definitely has also,
so this is all part of just trying to be
a whole.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Meet as a reminder, the Unwanted Sorority is a space
for community connection and care, but it is not a
suitable substitute for professional mental health, medical or legal sport.
If anything you hear today resonates in a way that
feels heavy, I encourage you to reach out to someone
you trust or a licensed clinician. You deserve to feel
(01:09):
whole and you deserve to be supported. While we may
all have heard about or saw the hashtag me too
back in twenty seventeen when the hashtag went viral, it
(01:31):
took months for many of us to hear the credit
being given to the original creator of the phrase as
it was being used, and it took even longer for
this icon's name to become part of our lexicon of
movement makers in the anti sexual violence movement.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So Dorona J.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Burke, a proud Bronx, New York native, began her work
as a community organizer in the.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Late nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Her first community organizing initiative was a youth leadership organization
called twenty first Century Youth Leadership Movement. She led and
participated in efforts that focused on police brutality, housing inequality,
and economic justice through her work with that organization. During
this time, she also endured and was recovering from the
(02:19):
emotional turmoil of her own sexual abuse. Toronto was raped
at seven years old by an eighteen year old man
who went on to become a New York City police officer.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
She recalls the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
During an interview with People magazine in twenty twenty one,
where she confronted him mentally over four decades later, as
she attended an event in the housing community they grow
up in.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
She states, you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Don't even know me. How dare you not know me?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I've thought about you nearly every day since I was seven,
and you have the luxury of looking right through me.
It's just not fair. She expanded on this in her
book Unbound, My Story of Liberation and the Birth of
the Me Too Movement, which I highly highly recommend you
grab and read because it's an incredible retelling of Toronto's
(03:12):
story and the development of what we understand as the
Me Too movement. And it opens with this really incredible
scene of her seeing this hashtag go viral of the
work that she had been pouring into for years prior.
So yeah, check it out. Taranta mentioned that she never
(03:32):
told her parents about being raped because of a fear
that her stepfather would hurt her rapist. At the time
of writing her book, she was not in a space
where she wanted to directly confront her rapists. She said
that she felt what was most important to her is
what she tells all survivors that she works with. My
responsibility is to survive and survive and thrive is exactly
(03:56):
what she did, organizing an advocacy work where essential aspects
of her work throughout college and her professional life actually
turned towards supporting survivors of sexual violence. When she graduated
and she began working in Selma, Alabama for the twenty
first Century Program. As I mentioned before, she encouraged dozens
(04:17):
of black girls with stories of sexual violence, abuse, and expectation.
All of these were stories that she personally identified with,
so as a twenty two year old, she met a
young woman named Heaven when she was working at a
summer camp in Alabama. Heaven was around twelve at the
time and confided in Tronta that she had been sexually
(04:38):
abused by her mother's boyfriend. Taranta didn't exactly know how
to help her in that moment, and as a survivor
of sexual assault, it can be triggering to receive someone
else's story when you may not have processed or worked
towards healing yourself. Tarana knew that she wanted to work
with black girls like Heaven, and it prompted her to
(04:59):
address her own trauma so that she could be well
enough to help other survivors address theirs. Toronta realized that
too many girls were trying their best to survive without
access to resources, safe spaces, and support. So in two
thousand and five, she created just Be Incorporated, an organization
committed to the empowerment and wellness of black girls. And
(05:22):
so this is kind of where me too was born.
In an interview with The Currents Matt Galloway in twenty
twenty one, Tronta said it didn't have a name yet,
but it was the beginning of really starting this journey,
the journey being one in which she says, quote, I'm
trying to tell survivors that me too is first and
(05:43):
foremost for us. We look at each other and say, oh,
that happened to you, It happened to me too. We
empower each other and then it's a declaration to the world.
But before we declare it to the world, we declare
it to each other. A hashtag me too went viral
in twenty seventeen after actress Alissa Milano tweeted a suggestion
(06:06):
for people who had experienced sexual assault to share it.
Following the allegations of sexual assault and rape against Hollywood
film producer Harvey Weinstein. Toronta immediately grew concerned. She was
worried about the possibility and truly the inevitability of erasure
of her very intentional efforts to center black girls who
were survivors of sexual assault.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
In the phrase me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Too, she recalled feeling like there was no way people
were going to think that this forty four year old
black woman from the Bronx had already been doing this
work and spreading the me to movement for over a
decade beforehand. So while her concern was warranted at the time,
her work for what it was, a concerted effort to
(06:48):
push for support and opportunities for connection for black girls,
also took on a larger meeting for her as she
realized that the black girls she knew and the survivors
coming out in Hollywood after the Harvey Weinstein case broke
all needed the same things. She's quoted as saying, what
(07:09):
survivors need is universal. They needed to be heard, they
needed to be seen, and they needed to be supported.
Toronta was finally given her deserved credit as a global
leader in the anti sexual violence movement. She placed the
focus back on survivors and the need for survivors centered
survivor led solutions Tarana uses her platform to share the
(07:33):
messages that healing is possible, survivors are leaders an ending
sexual violence has to be a social justice priority. In
twenty eighteen, Tronta founded me Too International, which is a
global nonprofit organization that guides the vision for the Me
Too movement, and her organization takes her vision to spaces
(07:54):
at center and address systems that perpetuate sexual violence, specifically
against black We are trans disabled in all communities of color,
and they have really amazing programming, So I highly recommend
you seek them out and take a look at what
they're doing. So I want to give a shout out
to Toronta for recognizing in heaven the inner black girl
(08:15):
in so many of us who also has a story
and for giving us space to explore that through this
viral hashtag and to make sense of something that can
feel so isolating. So thank you to Dorana for being
one of the founders for the Unwanted Sorority. Today's guest
(08:40):
is a perfect match with Toronto's story. After going through
her own healing journey of being sexually abused as a child,
Erica found strength in telling other black girls that they
were not alone, that black women can grow and thrive
despite the harm caused by their abusers, and most importantly,
(09:01):
that they could heal as well. So I can't wait
for you to hear Erica's story. So let's get into
this conversation. Hey, y'all, just a quick heads up, the
audio quality is not the best. Erica was my very
first guest on Mike, but the content is amazing and
I'm so excited for you to enjoy this episode with Erica.
(09:24):
So I am just going to start off by having
you introduce yourself. So who are you?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
My name is Erica, and I'm from a small city
in Pennsylvania and I'm just here today as a mother
of a sun and as an accounting professional and someone
who is just wanting to share their story and their
journey of overcoming the experiences I have in life.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So when you say the experiences you have in life,
what do you feel comfortable sharing? What does that mean
to you? And kind of how do you connect that
to what you consider this concept of the unwanted sorority
to be.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
So for me, I'm at a point in my life
where I just feel like I haven't shared or said
anything out loud, and I'm out of a space where
I want to just heal in all areas and be
a better version of me. And I feel like without
me actually sharing who I am or just saying it
(10:27):
out loud, that I can't I haven't fully accepted it.
And so this is the opportunity for me to pretty
much get to that space. And I think that's why
I'm at this point of now wanted to share that
I would, you know, sectually abuse when I was younger
and then again as a teenager, and so initially feeling
(10:53):
that I'm being connected to this group of a sorority. Also,
I feel like this is a group that gets overlooked, abandoned,
left unheard. So initially when I hear that, that's what
I think of, But now I feel like it's the
opportunity for me to be connected to a group of
(11:16):
women who share similar experience or men who have may
have the same story as me, a place for us
to get held, a place to be acknowledged and heard
and basically see that they're not the only one and
that they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Absolutely, And I think that's one of the biggest goals
of this show. You know, That's what I hope people
get from it, But I also, uh, you know, I
think it's important to know what it looked like for
those of us who maybe haven't talked about it for
a long time. We all come to this place at
(11:52):
different times where we are ready to talk and where
we're ready even to receive that's so that we can heal.
So I'm just curious for you what did that look like?
What did healing look like? Did it look like anything
up until this point where you haven't really talked much
about it?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So no, and I think there's always been a part
of me that needed to get to this point is
just what was the matter of when it was going
to happen? And I think it all sten for initially
when I wanted to speak out about it, I didn't
have the space to do so. So when this first
happened to me, I was about eight years old and
(12:34):
I was just, you know, a curious kid at the time,
and I had some relatives who knew that I was
very playful and that I was always curious and you know,
wanted to do things, and so they took advantage of
that because they were like, oh, you know, let's play
a game. And little did I know that this game
involved them actually touching me and doing things that they
(12:57):
were not supposed to, and I don't think I realized
that it was actually sexually sexual abuse at the moment
at that time when it happened to me, until later
on that night. I was in like pain down in
that area, and you know, was in discomfort, and I'm like,
you know, what the heck like? And then I remember
(13:19):
my mom ended up climbing you know, some of my
underclothes and it had you know, blood in them, and
so she was asking me question. She just thought, Oh,
I was riding my bike at the time because and
you know, I had a one of one of those
bikes that had the bar in the middle that really
wasn't supposed to be for females. It was more like
(13:40):
a mint bike, and that I fell and hurt you know,
my parts on that, and so then it was kind
of like, okay, and I was in a sake.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Cre this whole storyline.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, And so I was kind of like confused and
you know, mixed emotions about it. But then again at
the same time, it was kind of like okay, when
I mentioned that after you know, to the relatives that
did that, that I was gonna end up talking about
it because I'm like, oh, I don't like the game
we played, because I don't like how I felt in
(14:11):
all this, And then it was like it was a
hush has secret. And I come from a family where
you don't speak about things that happen and you keep
it only in a family. And sometimes that meant if
it didn't, if it didn't if you didn't share anything
that anybody wanted to hear, they did not want to
hear it or allow you a space to speak about it.
(14:33):
And so I was kind of hushed and shut up
at that time. So I didn't want to speak about it,
and I hadn't spoke about it. And then moving on
to an ifa and teenaged years, my mother was married
to an individual and he was very manipulative and we
didn't have much money at the time, and he used
(14:56):
that as a way to get sexual favors out of
me by staying, you know, if you didn't do this
or didn't do that, like you guys would be homeless
because I would leave your mother and she wouldn't have
money and it would be all your fault. Home at
that time a little bit older, but I was upset
(15:18):
with my mom because I felt like as a mother,
she should have picked up on something not being right
mha time, and I felt like she knew, but she
kind of ignored it because maybe because of the situation
of knowing that she would be less to take care
(15:38):
of these three daughters that she had with barely much
at the time. So I felt like it was overlooked,
and I just felt like my mom shouldn't something wasn't right,
and if she did, she did not want to acknowledge it.
And so when you have somebody who you play for
(15:58):
all your chest in and you look up to them,
and they don't give you the space to acknowledge ruck
similars or that something is wrong, like who can you
trust them? So I never spoke about it because I
felt like when I did, or were trying to show
my mom find that this was happening, she didn't want
(16:20):
to acknowledge them. So I feel like as we got older,
as I got older, I finally my mom and told
my mom, and I uncovered that some things had happened
to her, and so it was a scary situation for
her to believe that it was happening to her children now,
(16:41):
So it put more things in perspective on why at
that time she didn't. But when I was young, that
wasn't something that I wanted to hear.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I just wanted protection.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, So that was that, And like I said, I
went and you know, I'm at a place now where
I can actually say that I wanted to talk about
it and share because I think that it is a
part of the healent process.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, well, thank you, thank you for sharing that. I
think in both instances you were trying to see the
good side and the people that were around you and
the people who you know, we're kind of raised, especially
culturally in the black community, we are right like your
(17:32):
family is everything, family's first blood before anything, and when
that is abused, when that is taken advantage of as
is it can be, it puts us in these positions,
especially as children, where you have to make really difficult
decisions and you have to like wrestle with a lot
(17:54):
of really hard emotions. Did when you were sixteen, When
you were around that age, did you feel like you
had support, Maybe not even from the sexual trauma that
was happening, but just support, because it sounds like you
were put in a position where you almost have to
you had to be an adult in a lot of
ways to help take care of the family. Did you
(18:15):
get support in any of those other ways?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No, I mean I was the oldest child, and it
did get to a point where I'm basically in the
beg of my mom or totter with like it was
me or him, And I said, if I have to
get a job right at fifteen to help, you know,
pay these bills so that way he can be out
of here. Like That's what I did, And that's what
it ended up coming down through is I had to
(18:42):
stop start working super early, probably earlier than I would
have wanted to, but make sure that you had enough
income coming in and that we could actually be on
our own. But support wise, no, because my mom would
married to a man outside of her race and the
family was not happy about that already. And I remember
(19:04):
my grandmother saying, like he doesn't seem right for you,
like I don't get any good buyes when he's around,
And so because of that she had stopped talking, said
my mom for a while, and so she was our
support system, and that was a place that we would
go through all the time. But when that was happening,
we were across town and we weren't over at my
(19:26):
grandmother that much, so the supports that's been out we
would have had kind of disappeared because they had that
rift between them and her getting married and who she
was married to. So no, the support wasn't there at
that age. I was still trying to figure it out.
So even trying to communicate my feelings was just me
just acted out out of rage anger. So of course
(19:49):
that would have meant rightfully, so I wasn't. You know,
they sent me to the counselor a couple of times,
but you know that wasn't really a support. There's not
but morpho trying to just manage the behavior that I
was displaying at that time. So yeah, there was the.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Art what led to that situation.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
That all reminds me of a cycle of abuse. So
it talks about how abusers, who it sounds like your
mother was also experiencing some of that. Abusers kind of
go through these phases where they hold things against you
and then they know maybe are providing you with the
(20:32):
resources that you need, and then they get right back
into the abuse, and it's this cycle. But there's actually
a cycle of abuse that has this kind of cultural
component to it, and it talks about the cycle of
abuse and how that looks in the black community. And
I think we don't hear that talked about enough because
(20:53):
a lot of times it starts with abuse in our childhood,
abuse when we're young, and then me orient it again
as we get older, and then we experience it again
in adulthood and our adult relationship. So we're going through
this lifetime cycle of abuses black women that starts, unfortunately
for a lot of us, in our childhood, and again
(21:14):
we have to deal with those really adult decisions where
it's either me or your husband who is abusing you
from what it sounds like, and abusing your children. And
when we're used to that cycle of abuse throughout our lives,
it could be hard to find those spaces to get
out of it because we're so used to that cycle.
(21:36):
I talked about it in my research. Actually I talked
about it in terms of the socialization of trauma. We're
like socialized to see a lot of this as normal.
And just like you said, like you see your community
or you see your family as that place where you
maybe have gotten support, and then when that gets cut off,
when that is abused, when that's taken advantage of you
(21:57):
find that elsewhere, But yeah, I mean really it's really
tough to hear, and I'm sorry that you experience that,
but I'm happy that you were in this place where
you're ready for the healing journey. What do you what
does that look like to you?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Like?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Is this the start of it? What has have you
started elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I think I'm kind of at the cycle where I'm
I started it previously when I first went to go
see a therapist, and I think at that point I
was ready to share, but I thought I was more well.
I thought I was more ready than I really was
(22:38):
at that point of sharing and just making that connection
to those feelings, because when I started to get to
that point, I was overwhelmed with the feelings and I
just had the nightmares and going through that cycle of
just singing that. And then when I was actually going
through the Countland sessions, I had seen my mom's that husband,
(23:01):
and I just froze with a whole.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
At the place that you get in counseling. You saw
him at the place that you gated in counseling.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
No, No, I was leaving. I had left the session,
and I had seen him when I was driving, and I, yeah,
it was just I think it set me back because
I went back to being very closed off again. And
I think I was just shocked because at that moment,
we had hall thought that he was gone and wasn't
(23:31):
here because he had got in some trouble for something
to down the road, and so I just would think
I was just shocked because last I knew he was
in prison, and then to see him out and leaving
counseling like that just threw me for a whole worldway
and I didn't know how to deal with that. So
I stopped going at that time because it was just
(23:52):
too much for me. And so that's why I thought
I was ready, but then that happened and then I
just close off, got closed off all again. So I
did that, and you know, so I was getting to
that spot and then I realized there were some things
that I had, you know, forgotten, because obviously I know
(24:15):
when you were when you experienced trauma, like you tend
to close out parts of your life for age. You know,
there was times where it's like I just legit cannot remember.
But I think it was all related to that me
just trying to get it out of my mind, try
to get it out of my head of what had happened.
(24:35):
And so there was those gaps of you know, time
that I don't truly remember things, and so that's another
part is just like wanting to get back to a
spot where I can say I'm looking back on this
and yes I experienced this, but I don't want it
to take control over me and how I interact with people,
because it definitely has also hindered some relationships I had
(24:58):
as well too. So this is all part of just
trying to be a whole me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Absolutely, I love that being a whole me. I'm gonna
write that down. That might be the title of your episode,
to be honest, So what does that look like? What
does it look like to be a whole you?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I've been getting to a part where, first and foremost
I wanted to get to a part where I'm actually
able to share my story and I'm not going to
say not have any emotions to it or be able
to just speak it and be like, hey, I really
truly overcame this, and I want to be able to
share it and let you know, not be so overwhelmed
(25:41):
with emotions and also wanting it to be able to
be a better meat for that way, when I'm having relationships,
one of the things that definitely plays a part in it, streuss.
So it's not even just like what personal relationships any
type of person I want to get close to me,
I'm always like why because that was taken advantage of
and so you got close to me to do what
(26:01):
to hold this over my head or to say what
you did for me? And so that is something as
part of this journey of healing is to know that
there are truly people out there who do want to
be because I feel like if I don't allow myself
to get to a point where I can trust other people,
how can I have the support if it is there anyway,
because then I wouldn't be willing to accept it truly
(26:24):
if I don't trust them. So I think this is
all just part of it. I feel like I'm close
to being where I want to be, but I definitely
have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, And I mean I think that's also like something
to just remind yourself that that is the life, that's
the life work. That's not the right now, that's not
you know a year from now. That's the life work.
You're gonna constantly go through these spaces where you are
just improving and building on that, but being able to
(26:57):
come on this podcast assent sharer in talk about it
in this way and yeah, we may have emotions around
our story and we may get emotional, but like we're
here right and and we're building on that, and we're
taking control of our story, and we're taking the opportunities
(27:19):
to focus on what we need as opposed to what
somebody may have taken from us or what someone may
have done to us. And it doesn't diminish who we are,
It doesn't change the value that we have. But you're
you're becoming who you are, and that's that's the life work.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I love that that phrase and the way that you're
thinking about what healing looks like to you, but also
what you need in this moment. So have you I know,
like a part of this you said was about trying
to come into this around the community that might build
(27:59):
from this show, But have you built your own community
around people who have experiences or people who may have
similar traumas, or people who have had some sort of
trauma who have shared that and been open with you
about it. Have you built some community around that in
your in your life right now?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think some of the younger women, and it kind
of just happened because you know, there's so I forget
exactly what the topic was that it was about. Basically
when you, as a woman, look like you're so established
and that you didn't have anything that you ever had
to go to or overcome, and it was kind of
like with some of the young women, like, no, there
(28:41):
definitely is a lot that I overcame. Everybody looked out
like they have everything together doesn't always mean that they
do have it together. And so I definitely have shared,
you know, like I said, bits and pieces with different
younger women. I think that when you have experienced abuse
yourself is kind of you kind of pick up on
(29:03):
if something has happened to another individual or the way
they respond to different things. And so I think I
have had some relationships like that with some of the
younger women just because you know, I see something or
I hear something that I was like, Okay, that sounds
like something I went through, or the way you express
yourself that way, or you know, pick up on different
(29:24):
you know, actions or things of how you know, people
may have went through some of the same things, so
I have that, and then most recently, I have had
other cousins than family members who have said that that
same family member that did those things to me had
done it to them, And so we have uncovered that
this was something that was happening in the family, but
(29:46):
because no one talked about anything to anybody else, this
person just kept doing it to different family members. And so,
you know, we were discussing that, and they were saying,
you know how they don't think that, you know, they
would be able to talk about it because they don't want,
you know, their mothers or whatever to feel a certain
(30:08):
way about sharing their story. But and I actually had
my cousins say, well, why are you finally getting for
a place to talk about it? And I said, because
I think that there's a certain power in truth and
testimony and sharing those things. And you know, sometimes I
can't be afraid to share my story based upon how
it's going to make somebody else feel, because it's about
(30:29):
me and how I'm feeling right now, and I don't
want to disrespect anybody else by sharing my story. But
it's important to share my story because it's my story.
And so Yeah, I've connected with some of my other
you know, family members who have you know, experienced some
of the same thing. But like I said, I'm just
getting to that point of wanting to accept being that
(30:53):
support or you know, that sense of community. I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think with this, with sharing and with talking about it,
it is so against.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What is expected of us.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
And when we do, when we do kind of own
our power, when we own our story, when we take
control of it. It's scary to other people, especially family members,
for those who haven't who haven't experienced it, but especially
for those who have, so who knows like it may
be you may be you know, kind of changing the
(31:27):
course of your family members and how they choose to
go about healing on their own. Do you know what
they may have done in the past, Like if they've
gone on any sort of healing of their own around this,
Like what did they do? No?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
In fact, I think that was what you were talking about.
Is like getting to that place because one cousin in particular,
you know, having this conversation or her of like I'm
so toxic, you know, and relationships and stuff like that,
and I think it's stem frum what has happened to me, like, yeah,
that's definitely where I was at at one point in time,
and that's why I was like, I need to like
(32:05):
get a hold of it. I need to, you know,
start this journey for myself. M hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
That's a beautiful thing, especially you being open about it.
And I know you said that you kind of I
don't know if you you want to use the term,
but I know that you've kind of been in like
a role model position for younger women that you've heard
who may have some of these characteristics that you see
if maybe they've had you know, they've dealt with abuse
(32:33):
in the past, or you know, maybe they're in the
position where they really have grown family members and parents
who are depending on them to help contribute to the household,
those sort of things. What has that been like for you?
Have you found some like power in that and being
a role model and being able to like help these
young women. Has that helped you with like healing in
(32:55):
your own way?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I guess I didn't see it that way. I mean,
not a you're you know saying it, you know, but
I I don't know. I guess sometimes I don't give
myself as much credit as others do. And so I
definitely did not see it that way because I'm just
thinking like, oh, we just you know, have something to
relate to. But I don't know, I mean, I haven't
(33:20):
thought about it that way.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You were absolutely her role model.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You are absolutely helping, uh because I feel like you're
also helping change the culture.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right, Like, imagine if.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You had been able to have somebody talk to you, like,
what do you think that would have felt like for you,
somebody who recognized you know, maybe you just needed somebody
to say, I see you, you don't like this is
not okay if you want to talk about it, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I definitely, yeah, definitely did need it to hear that.
I mean, I think my thing was more so like
a fan, I hear you, I see you. But the
biggest thing was, you know, being asked what happened? What changed?
Like because I was a person like I said nice
(34:10):
playfauld and I went from that overnight to just being
so mean and stand offish and all of that. And
so yeah, I definitely would have wanted or to have
that question be asked and me, I think that would
have maybe at that time changed some things and wouldn't
allow me to get to a space of going so
(34:33):
many years of just being this coldhearted person yes and
like closed off because that's not what I wanted to
be at all. But that was the way that I
had to deal with this because I wasn't presented the
opportunity to say, hey, what happened, or hey I see you,
or I know that it's it and definitely know that
(34:55):
it was not my fault, because that's all I kept hearing,
like oh if you didn't there, definitely is your fault.
And then I think that moment of you know, having
even my mom being like, well, you should have told me,
and I'm like, well, we did tell you, like I
did not rather you wanted to hear it or not
like we did tell you. So that part of me
(35:16):
not having a space to be able to say like, oh,
you're you're asking me, but you're truly not wanting to
listen to what I have to say, because that's a
big deal too. So I don't know. If I had that,
definitely it would have been better. But now that you know,
I'm realizing, like by me having those conversations with those
(35:38):
young ladies that yeah, I think that's another reason why
I think it's it's important to share my story because
I'm looking at it as okay, maybe you know, like
I said, just knowing that you're not the only one
out here and that it shouldn't be anything to be
ashamed of and that it will be an ongoing journey
(36:00):
to get through in the continue to work it out.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that's that's so powerful. That's so that's really powerful.
You know, I know that you you kind of said
that you are towards the start, you've kind of started
already on your journey, but like there's there's definitely more
to come for you and the impact that you're going
to have on these young women and who knows how
many people who are either listening to this show or
(36:26):
you know that you're going to have one on one
personal connections with.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Throughout your life. But just getting to this point.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yourself of knowing it was not your fault, no, you know,
decisions that these people who decided to abuse you or
who decided to you know, commit this violence towards you.
Nothing that you did made them do. That that's powerful
for for anyone to hear. And I'm you know, I'm
glad that you got to that point in being able
to tell yourself that if you hadn't heard it from
(36:56):
anybody else, being able to convince yourself of that is,
you know, amazing. It's a testament to the self work
that you've done.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, it's not completely odd to me. I think me
having some of those sessions, you know what the therapists
did allow me to get to that point, like I said,
and I think now it's just a matter of continuing
on that where I kind of let off and like
finishing that out, because it's one thing to know what
(37:27):
you went through, but I think just saying it out
out loud and acknowledging it is another thing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's a whole different other thing. Yeah, And I think
that's also like you know, like we were saying earlier
that you know, that could change at different points in
our lives, like how that feels to say it out loud.
It can It can feel good now, and it cannot
feel good ten.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Years from now.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
We've kind of talked about the young people that you
work with or have talked to about this, But what
else do you think is important for people to know
about how to better support black girls or black women
who experience this type of trauma.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
First, I think it's important too, because I heard this
a lot that we always uh, well, there's people who
automatically think that you were the you were the cause
of what happened to you, And I think that's the
first day and they first want to say, well that
some o the people that I know experience on this
said oh, well, look what she was always wearing, or
(38:35):
look what she was doing or where she was hanging out,
And I think that that is no way. First of all,
we need to stop doing blameing the victim for the
reason that things happened. It shouldn't matter what they were wearing,
how they were dressed, where they were at, what they
were doing, because they did not ask for this to
happen to them. So I think initially we need to
(38:57):
get out of the when we hear this stuff or
when someone tries to share, that shouldn't be our first question,
well what was you doing or what you know, what
were you wearing or any of that, because then that
implies that it was the person's fault. So the only
so to be able to compose someone who has went
through something, we need to really just acknowledge their feelings
(39:18):
and what has happened to them, and not so much
focused on what led to that to happen. So that
would be one of the things that I think would
be important is because that definitely will stop a person
if they were going to share anything, from sharing things
because you're already judging, and so we just need to
(39:41):
get to a place. I think it is important too
and then check on women and truly be there for
them and show that you're invested in what they have
to say, because I think we get in a habit
a lot of time is just asking. But for me
as a woman, we already have so much on our plate,
some of us that are mothers, some of them that
(40:03):
you know are trying to wear any different hats you know,
as a wife, as a whatever your profession. And so
I think that is important that we do not only
we ourselves do a self check and self care, but
other people that surround us, so that when you ask
us how we are doing or what is bothering us
or whatever, that you truly are investigating what we're about
(40:25):
to say or what we have to say to know
that we have those faith those faith faces to be
able to do so, because I think we carry so
much and we just need to be able to have
that place to just yes and you know, take a
moment that actually really, you know, say what's going on.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yes, Oh that's so important. Actually check in on somebody,
but listen, not just ask the questions, but listen to
what they need. People do a whole lot of talk,
and I think that's why, to me, at least, this
show is so important and it's so needed because black women,
you said it at the beginning, we don't get to
(41:10):
see ourselves in this conversation. It's a whole lot of
white women who get centered when we're talking about sexual violence.
But black women we are just expected to have this resilience,
which I have a love hate relationship with that word,
(41:31):
but we are just expected to have this resilience where
we get we can get over it, we can get
through anything.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
We can put the cape on and.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
We can be fine.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And sometimes a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Of times we need to take that cape off and
we need to relax, and we need somebody else to
put the cape on for us. And if we don't
have people who are doing that, we will put the.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Cape on for each other and we will cover each other.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
But we need more people like you said, to actually
check in on us because we can't do it all
the time, and we can't do it by ourselves.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, nor shall we be expected to. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
And so you said that you're a mother, what has
this looked like for your child? Like, what does this
look like from that mother's perspective? This concept of the sorority,
the unwanted sorority, how it kind of you know is
in our community the impact? What does that look like
from a mother's perspective. Well, I know, the the honesty
(42:30):
as far as mother aing go. Because of what I
went through, it definitely has been a struggle for me.
I feel like because of the love that I didn't
get or experience.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And the things that sometimes it was kind of hard
to you know, path that to my child, which I'm
learning to forgive myself for because I feel like I
wasn't able to give him all of the loving, the
actual like in brain thing and stuff like it. I
would have probably wanted to, but I wasn't there myself,
(43:07):
and especially when the things that happened to me, you know,
not dealing with that. I was young when I had him,
so not too long after I had went through as
a teenager, and then I ended up having a child
going through that because at that point I just felt
like maybe I would have a child. I thought, actually
having my child will give me something to you know,
(43:27):
hold on, to look forward to, but it actually end
up being the opposite because it kind of got to
a point where I was just very distant. So I
know it has affected me that way as far as
a mother, because I've been guilty or felt guilty that
I wasn't able to express myself like I felt a
parent should. Well, I went through years of that and
(43:54):
I guess I didn't get myself or feel the value
in myself and all of that, so I wasn't able
to give that to my child. So it has affected
me in that way. To my son, he thinks that
I'm the best parent in the world, but to me,
I feel like I neglected him sometimes as far as
(44:15):
with emotions and just the overall love and expressed them
to him things that I really wanted to express them
that I didn't. So he doesn't think that he was
lacking anything, but for me, I feel like I was.
So it definitely has affected me that way so much.
(44:36):
So I was devastated to even think about having any
more children, or even having a daughter to have to
experience this.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
It's still something I'm working through and that's part of
my process too, because I definitely felt guilty as far
as that goes being a mother and happened to deal
with it during this journey of healing and everything.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Oh so, as someone who has seen you and your son.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
That love is unconditional and as a mother, you deserve
the space to be human.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And part of being human is, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Taking care of yourself sometimes and realizing maybe where in
the past we may not have been what we consider
our best selves, but acknowledging and recognizing that other people
can still see that good in us when we're not
when we may not feel like we were our best.
And that's that's evident in the relationship dynamic that you
(45:48):
and your son have. And it's just I mean, you
are like one of the best mothers I've seen when
it comes to being there for her son. So I just,
you know, I just want to give you that and
let you know that you're doing the damn thing when
(46:10):
it comes to parenting. You know, it may not feel
like it may not have felt like it a you know,
at all points, but as someone who's not a mother.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
It is definitely powerful.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
To see the relationship dynamic that y'all have and it's
clear and it's evident that it is it's there, and
it's you know, well received, and that child loves you
despite it all.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
So is there anything else that you wanted to you know,
kind of final thoughts, anything else that you wanted to
say or talk through or just put into this space.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
I know, I think that this opportunity to share story
definitely a maze. Then to be able to do this
and allow just the space to talk through this, I
think is definitely something as important to bring to the
(47:12):
forefront because it's not often discussed I don't. I mean,
there might be spaces to do that, but it's not
really talked about as much as some of the other things.
And then you mentioned it before, like we definitely hear that.
There's definitely support groups and stuff like that for you know,
other things that other individuals. But I think that we
(47:32):
have to get over the fact of keeping everything quiet
and actually being empowered rather that is by hearing someone
else's story story or experiences to be able to speak
up and you know, get together to join So not
(47:52):
so much that is, so that we don't feel unwanted,
because that was definitely a big thing. I think you
got to go through and work through once the things
happened to you, to after you realize that it's not
your fault, knowing that you are still something in that
you can still be something great, and that there is
people who will still want you, because I struggle with
(48:16):
that a lot too, because I felt like tain't d
meet in a sense like you know, who's gonna want
me as it is or that, and that's not true.
A lot of the stuff that we say or we
think it's not always true, but it's just knowing that
hearing it for someone else definitely makes it a little
(48:37):
bit easier. Yeah, less someone else can confirm that you
are not this or you're not lesson or whatever because
of what has happened to you. So I think that's
important and something that should just you know, be highlighted.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Absolutely, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
And I think all a lot of times we get
to that place because we don't have anybody else or
we don't hear anybody else who's talking about it, so
we're like, oh damn, Like if nobody's talking about it,
I must be the only one, or I must be
one of the only ones, or this, you know, must
be something not just I gotta unlucky in life, and
(49:15):
this happened to me because I'm unlucky, and that's not
true at all. There's so many, so many black women
and black girls who are going through this and dealing
with this and thinking they're the only ones. And you know,
if only we just got ourselves to a place where
we could talk a little bit more about how much
this really impacts our community, then we can collectively get
(49:36):
to a space of healing. And until we get to
that place, you know, we just have to keep healing
ourselves piece by piece, healing each other as we see
those little elements in ourselves, elements in the people around us,
and make sure the we're all trying to take care
of each other because it is hard, and it's again,
(49:59):
it's that thing that we have to continuously work at,
but we will get there. And I'm so grateful to
uh to you to being on the show and taking
this opportunity to tell your story in your way and
be as you know, raw with your story.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
As you were.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's not easy to do, and you did it. Beautifully
and I just I just thank you for for being open,
being open, and thank you for sharing what healing has
looked like for you and and sharing what that journey
has looked like, because I know it's gonna it's gonna impact.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
A lot of people. I know it has already. Yeah,
thank you. And again, I just can't thank you enough
for providing a space that for ones that I actually
felt safe for that to be transparent about my story
and to share share it, because I think that's so important,
having a safe space to do so, and so I
am just thankful for that as well.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This conversation with Erica gave everything. It was emotional, it
was raw, it was encouraging, and it was powerful. I
thank her for her openness and her willingness to share.
And I want to highlight a few ideas that came
about during this discussion in our Unpacking the Ritual segment.
(51:29):
So first, Erica went in on the life work of
self improvement, and she didn't mean it in the way
of quote unquote achievements making sure other people perceive you
as hashtag life goals or anything like that. When talking
about her assault, Erica said, it happened, but I don't
(51:50):
want it to take control of me. That perspective holds
so much weight for me. It's like a coat, kind
of one in which we played no part in putting on.
What yet it's ours to carry with us throughout the rest.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Of our lives.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
So for some of us the coat is quite heavy, right.
We may stumble and struggle putting it on, struggle learning
how to navigate, how to carry this new garment that
has been bestowed upon us. For other people, the coat
maybe a garment that they turn into a statement piece
and they demand that it be seen by others in
order to make it so that this garment may never
(52:28):
be passed on to other people again, or that the
material may be more breathable for others who are going
to wear this coat, easier to work with, maybe better
able to make carrying on with our lives more possible.
And for Erica it took a while to understand how
to wear her coat. What was true for her and
(52:49):
for our founder Toronta, was that they could see the
struggle in other young black girls and women who had
this figurative coat in a way that others who had
not experience sexual abuse may not. As someone still struggling
with how to wear the coat herself. Both Erica and
Toronto knew that they were called to support.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
In a way that was greater than them getting to
this point.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Erica came to this realization, which she particulated by saying,
there is a power in truth and testimony. I don't
know that Erica would anticipate how impactful her owning her
power in that way would be for the girls that
she mentored, whose coats she made sure she saw this
concept of seeing oneself in black girls and using your
(53:38):
experience to help them navigate our social landscape. Doctor Jacqueline
Roebuck Sacho describes it perfectly, saying, quote, black activist mothering
is a labor of way showing sense making and new
knowledge production birthed by Black women as mothers, so Elder
(53:58):
doctor Sacho, which you'll understand why I refer to her
as such if you read her article titled Black Activist
mother Colon teach me about what teaches you, which I
highly encourage you to do. She breaks down what Elder
Patricia Hill Collins defines as other mothers. Other mothers is
(54:20):
a concept that dates back to the enslavement of African
Americans where care, guidance, and essentially adoption of black children
took place. Regardless of familial ties or lineage. Other mothers
hold the family infrastructure together by virtue of caring, ethics, teaching,
(54:42):
and community service. These relationships were thought to move into
a space of sacred sisterhood that binds Black women and
girls as community other mothers. Other mothers are considered to
be the backbone of the Black community. They have and
continued to hold the community through political and economic changes
(55:02):
in society, including the ever changing systemic needs of the
Black community. Therefore, Patricia holl Collins considers other mothers as activists,
and frankly, I see both Trona and Erica as other
mother activists. Who I also see as other mother activists
are folks from Amani Community Services, which is a domestic
(55:28):
violence and sexual assault agency based out of Iowa, Yes Iowa,
of all places. In twenty nineteen, this organization recognized that
Black experiences, black stories, and Black intimate partner dynamics were
not reflected in the dominant, primarily used domestic violence frameworks.
(55:51):
So Amani Community Services adapted the original power and Control
wheel from the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project, which had been
kind of like the leading domestic violence organization since the
early nineteen eighties to relate to the abuse experience within
the African American community. They realized that the experiences of
(56:13):
black survivors did not relate to the original power in
Control wheel. They conducted focus groups in twenty nineteen where
black victims of domestic violence shared some tactics that were
more specific to their experiences, such as manipulation around tax
(56:35):
time for money and gifts, the use of colorism, reporting
to the Department of Human Services, not allowing her to
get her hair and nails done, calling her the B word,
and discouraging her from calling the police because of fear
of police brutality. So group facilitators shared the original power
(56:57):
and Control wheel along with the other power and control
wheels that were developed from these tactics that were shared
by other victims. Survivors were then given a blank wheel
and encouraged to write down their own personal experiences that
weren't identified on the original wheel. Group discussions followed with
(57:18):
survivors sharing their individual experiences. Staff then reviewed the Power
and Control Wheel activity sheets that they completed during that
time and identified common themes and the themes were then
converted onto the wheel and showed to black domestic violence
survivors to kind of be evaluated and assessed for accuracy. So,
(57:43):
as of twenty twenty two, black survivors of intimate partner
violence finally had a power and control wheel that they
could relate to that was reflective of the community and
created by the community that it was intended to serve.
The Power and Control Will also has a countertool that
details and describes what Amani Community Services refers to as quote,
(58:08):
the foundation to healthy Black love. This countertool is called
the Equality and Respect Weel and it includes eight primary
ways to identify a healthy relationship. Those include negotiations and fairness,
non threatening respect, honesty and accountability, trust and support, healthy
(58:33):
co parenting, shared responsibility, and finally, economic partnership. As Amani
Community Services notes, quote, healthy relationships can be formed when
you first understand and form self love. It is the
honoring of yourself that sets the tone and standard within
the love that is given from others. Erica actually kind
(58:57):
of mentioned this in my conversation with her, stating, you
were not this, you were not lesson because of what
happened to you. And Toronta shared the same sentiment saying
it is my responsibility to survive. So I'm curious. I
would love to hear from you all. What are your
connections with other mothers in your life? Are there specific
(59:19):
moments where you recall other mothers sharing a specific word
with you that's kind of helped you navigate it all?
Or have you been the one any other mother role
who shared specific words with black girls or fems that
you know have been impactful to them.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
Check in with us.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
I want to hear from you. You can find us
at the Unwanted Sorority on all socials, or you can
email us at the Unwanted Sorority at gmail dot com
and let me know also if you're interested in being
a roll call guest or if you want to nominate
someone for the Flowers for the Founder's segment. So until
(59:57):
next time, take care of yourself, take care of one another,
and release whatever shame or guilt you may be feeling
about the harm that's been done to you.
Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
You are not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Join us next week for a brand new episode of
The Unwanted Sorority, which will be available wherever you get
your podcast, and make sure you stay safe, stay connected,
and remember this is a safe space, not a quiet space.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive produced Emmy Leander
Tate Or. Executive producer is Joel Money, Our producer is
Carmen Loren and original cover art is created by Savannah Muler.
I would also like to be of special thanks to
the I Heard Podcast Next Up program for helping bring
the show to life. Also all of the guests who
have taken a step in sharing their story with you
all on these episodes. And finally to all the members
(01:00:55):
of the Sorority who will never tell their story, we
see you and your story matters. Nine
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