In this episode of The Unwanted Sorority, we’re giving flowers to the one and only Patricia Hill Collins. Leatra also talks with Trina Greene of Parenting for Liberation about the necessity of self-care for parents and children. Whether you’re a survivor or someone walking alongside us in this journey, taking care of yourself is not optional. It’s sacred.
We also get real about trauma triggers—what they are, how they show up, and how to regulate after they hit. This episode also touches on a topic too often left out of healing conversations: childhood sexual abuse (CSA) and parenting. I lift up the powerful work of Ebony Williams and her organization Cactus in Bloom, which centers Black and LGBTQIA+ CSA navigating pregnancy, birth, and parenting.
If you're healing, holding space, parenting through pain, or just trying to figure out how to make room for yourself in your own life—this one’s for you.
Resources & Mentions
Patricia Hill Collins’ 2009 ASA Presidential Statement
TIME Magazine article about Patricia Hill Collins
Kimberlé Crenshaw on Intersectionality
Patricia Hill Collins: Black Sexual Politics
Leatra’s Dissertation (reference to the "socialization of trauma" concept)
Parenting for Liberation (Website, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Book- “Parenting for Liberation: A Guide for Raising Black Children”)
Parenting for Liberation Podcast (episode 81 with Ebony Williams of "Cactus in Bloom")
What is a trigger?- me too. International
Self-care for supporting survivors- me too. International
Self-care for supporting survivors- RAINN
25 Things Parents Should Know about Child Sexual Abuse
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to another episode of The Unwanted Sorority. I
am your host, doctor Leetratate. This is a space created
for and by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks
who have experienced sexual violence. So whether you lifted, you
love someone who has, or you simply want to hold space,
you're welcome here. On this week's show, we're giving flowers
(00:26):
to the one and only doctor Patricia Hill Collins, whom
our guest today actually shares who has served as an
inspiration for her in a lot of her work. And
you'll also hear from our role call guests, the one
and only Trina Green, founder of Parenting for Liberation, where
she'll describe how.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Parenting for Liberation is about how do we center liberation
in our parenting practice, liberating ourselves and our children.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Will also unpack what self care looks like for parents
who are survivors of sexual violence, or if they're parenting
children who have shared or disclosed that they've had an
experience and don't forget the Unwanted sobrity is a space
for community connection and care, but it's not a substitute
for professional mental health, medical or legal support. So if
(01:14):
you hear anything that resonates in a way that feels heavy.
I encourage you to reach out to someone you trust
or a licensed clinician. You deserve to feel well and
you deserve to be supported. Today we're giving flowers to
one of our intellectual fore mothers, doctor Patricia Hill Collins,
(01:38):
a woman whose work has help shape how we talk
about Black womanhood, survival, and sexual violence. Patricia Hill Collins
is a true pioneer in black womenist scholarship, and she
spent decades amplifying black women's voices and telling her truth.
Born in nineteen forty eight, Collins was raised in a
working class black neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. While she's never
(02:02):
publicly identified as a survivor of sexual violence, her body
of work has been absolutely foundational in naming what so
many of us know in our bones. She came of
age during desegregation, notably often one of the only black
girls in her classroom. She often said quote, my world
(02:22):
grew larger, but I felt like I was growing smaller.
Those early experiences of isolation, of being made to feel
lesser eventually led to her feeling silenced. But even then,
the seeds of resistance were already being planted. Her mother,
a domestic worker and a dreamer, as Collins described her,
(02:44):
used to take her on what she would call magical
trips to the library. There she was surrounded by books
and ideas, where little Patricia found her voice. In a
twenty twenty three Time magazine interview, Patricia Hill, Collins states, quote,
a life of the mind and its ability to set
you free, I would say started with that moment of reading,
(03:06):
becoming a believer in libraries, books, free speech, the power
of ideas in public space end quote. That belief took
her all the way to Brandeis University, where she studied
sociology and learned under the guidance of civil rights icon
Polly Murray, and by the time the nineteen sixties rolled around,
(03:29):
Collins was already developing the critical lens that would come
to define her career with intersectionality, and to be clear,
her analytical lens is not to be confused with Kimberly
Crenshaw's political framework. While similar, there are definitely differences. Collins
defined her critical social theory as the way that race, gender, class, sexuality, nation,
(03:52):
and age mutually shape our social experiences and ultimately how
black women have shaped the world. Her first book, Black
Women's Thought, which was published in nineteen ninety, was so
critical to this movement. In it, Collins drew on everything
from slave narratives and blues songs to her own experiences,
articulating how black women's perspectives on issues like work, family,
(04:16):
and sexual abuse intertwined. In her later work Black Sexual Politics,
she Held Us Accountable, She challenged the ways that black
communities have historically stayed quiet on the rape of black women.
In the book, she states, quote black women were encouraged
to keep quiet in order to subdue the idea of
(04:37):
their wanton sexuality end quote. She wasn't afraid to name
the fact that we rallied around lynch black men, and
we should have to be honest, But too often they
did not show up with that same energy for Black
women and girls who were being assaulted in our own
homes and neighborhoods. She also called out how even now,
(05:00):
when black women or girls report sexual abuse were often
seen as angry, fast lying, or too strong to be hurt.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
We talked about that a.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Little bit in the bonus episode, and that'll be kind
of a theme that we come back to throughout the season.
Too many of us are dismissed or disbelieved, and Collins
didn't just theorize it. She traced it all the way
back to the Jezebel, the Mammy, the sapphire, and the
strong black women, those tropes that have caused us our
safety or tenderness in our humanity over the years. And
(05:32):
she doesn't just stop there. She lifts up this legacy
of resistance, of refusing to be quiet, from the enslaved
black women who fought back against sexual violence that was
normalized at the time, to Ida b Wells, who linked
the anti lynching campaign to the defensive black womanhood, to
Rosa Parks, who before the bus boycott, investigated rape cases
(05:55):
against black women in the South in the nineteen forties,
and even to today marching under hashtag me two, hashtag
times up, hashtags say her Name, and hashtag girls too.
That's the legacy that Collins has written us into over
the years. She's especially insistent that we listen to black
girls because the abuse starts early, and if we don't
(06:19):
name it, the world certainly won't.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
She reminds us that no.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Black girl's trauma should ever be considered normal, despite what
society tries to make us think, actually base my own
conceptualization of a similar theory, which I call the socialization
of trauma on Colin's work, and I talk about that
more in my dissertation. She reminds us that every story
(06:44):
deserves to be heard with full humanity. Her most recent book,
Lethal Intersections, Race, Gender, and Violence, which she published in
twenty twenty three, continues that work. She shows us how
ordinary people people like us, organize, resist, and protect one another,
even at the intersections of violence that society refuses to acknowledge. Today,
(07:08):
as a Distinguished Professor Emerita, doctor Patricia Hill Collins still
challenges us to tell the truth, to believe black girls,
to name what we see, and to understand that we
are not alone. She once said, most activism is brought
about by ordinary people like ourselves, and that's exactly what
(07:32):
we're about in this sorority. So today we send deep
love and gratitude to doctor Patricia Hill Collins. Your work
gave us language, your legacy gives us a path, and
your voice gives us courage. So these flowers are for you,
(07:58):
all right. So it is my honor to introduce y'all
to the unwanted Sororities first official role call guest Miss
Trina Green. She is a self identified black feminist, mama activist,
and she's also the founder and executive director of Parenting
for Liberation. Parenting for Liberation is an organization created to
support black parents as they collectively heal from and interrupt
(08:23):
intergenerational violence to build resilient and joyful Black families and community.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Trina also lectures and.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Writes on topics of African American families at cal State Fullerton,
and her writing has been featured in on Parenting for
The Washington Post, in Essence Magazine, La Parent Magazine, and
in several anthologies. Her book Parenting for Liberation, A Guide
for Raising Black Children, debuted on Juneteenth in twenty twenty
(08:51):
by Feminist Press. So let's get in this incredible interview.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Much again for agreeing to do this. I just want
to give you a chans to introduce yourself to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Hey, y'all, my name is Trina Green, and I'm the
founder and executive director of Parenting for Liberation.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh? I was like, is that it?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Like, I know what, I know what I have found
of the organization. I know what I've found of your work.
I know you know all of that, But what does
it mean to you? Because those are those are some
strong words. So what does parenting for Liberation mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
For you? Yeah, thank you and thanks for having me on.
By the way, So parenting liberation to me means twofold.
So oftentimes we think of parenting as what we do
with our children. But some of the work that I've
been doing and even started this organization, of some of
the reparenting work that I've done with myself. So parenting
(09:53):
for Liberation is about how do we center liberation in
our parenting practice, liberating ourselves and our children. And it's
specifically working with black families because we're raising children here
in America in places where our children weren't meant to
survive and a lot of conditions are not set up
for our children to thrive. And as we're trying to
fight and advocate for a world where our children can
(10:15):
be free, that we have to parent them in a
liberated way that gives them voice, agency, autonomy, and also
cultivates their sense of power and inherent self worth.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I appreciate that so much because it's action, right, It's
not just action for your children or for our children.
It's both action for our children and with our children,
but also for ourselves as parent and just you know,
in full transparency, I am not a parent, but this
(10:49):
is work and perspective that I think is so central
to what this podcast is all about with the Unwanted Sorority.
It's many of us are experiencing parenthood and living through parenthood,
and we have all been children of someone, right, And
so I think this concept of parenting for liberation is
just so critical to this conversation because it's about kind
(11:13):
of caring for ourselves and that inner child that we
hear in pop culture and pop psychology. Right, Everybody talk about,
you know, caring for our inner child, and it's so true.
Sometimes you do have to reparent and relearn what parenting
looks like when you may not have had great models.
But it's also about like the action of like collective liberation.
(11:35):
So I really appreciate that. And for those who may
not know, as you mentioned, you have a podcast, and
you have a book that you've put out around this stuff,
and you've got a nonprofit and I'll just let you
speak to kind of someone of what parenting for liberation
looks like for you if you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Absolutely, And I want to say, like, you might not
be a biological parent, but there may maybe folks in
your life who you are parenting, mothering, and just wanting
to honor Patricia Hill Collins work around mother work and
other work and how in the black community it's about
caring for the collective and it's about even the unties,
(12:15):
the uncles, the play unties, the play uncles, you know,
the play cousins that we are all oftentimes parenting, mothering
other mothering in our community. So I just wanted to
invite you into the space. I appreciate that, into the
space and know that everybody, you know, all of us
can be parenting for liberation regardless of our biological connections
(12:37):
to children. It's about that commitment to the collective liberation
as you talked about. And so just a little bit
about Parents of Liberation. Yeah, so we're based out of
southern California, but we do work nationwide. Founded in twenty sixteen,
so we're heading too our ten year anniversary. And it
started literally as a podcast. I was interviewing black parents
because I was curious about how can I practice liberation
(12:57):
in my home. I had been an act and did
a lot of youth organizing work in my younger days
before I became a parent. I was the youth activist
and youth organizer who wanted to support young people and
having voice, agency power, being able to speak to adults
about agism and about their own rights to be self
(13:18):
actualized as young people. And then I became a parent
of a black boy right after we had our first
black president, and as a lot of folks know that
having a black president led to a lot of we
just talked about mercury, mercury being a retrograde, but there
was like a resurgence of anti blackness and white supremacy,
and the impact of that on black folks is that
(13:38):
we started to witness a lot more violence. So I
was raising a black child at this time when Black
Lives Matter came on the scene, and really was doing
a lot of activism work around not only about black lives,
but also black children's lives. And though I was doing
that work, I was doing this work at schools and
with young people advocated, and then I would go home
(14:01):
and be the opposite. I was control I was like power,
top down parenting, do what I say, don't ask me
any questions. It was very antithetical to who I was
and my values that I had in my work, and
I couldn't understand what the disconnect was about. So I
started to do my research. I started to interview black parents,
(14:23):
like how do you practice being gentle? How do you
practice being gracious? How do you practice being soft when
there's so much fear, there's so much trauma. And so
in the work that I do in the gender based
finlence move and the work that I do in the
racial justice movement, I learned, you know I know this
to be true, is that you can't you can't fear
(14:43):
based parent liberation.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I couldn't create all these rules and structures and limit
his ability to be free if I still wanted him
to believe that he could be free. And so I
had to release some of those control, those power and
control dynamics that I was exhibiting, and realized that it
was about my fear. I was afraid for his safety
his well being, and so I was like literally like
holding him down instead of lifting him up. And so
(15:07):
that's what created the organization, is that I really wanted
to explore how do we practice this, like these liberation
principles that we do in organizing work in our homes,
how do we create spaces where our children can be free,
where they can push back, where they can't ask us questions,
where they can have voice and agency. And so the
nonprofit does a variety of work, but it centers on
three focus areas. Which is healing justice, which is how
(15:29):
do we as black parents heal from our trauma so
that we can interrupt in a generational violence. The second
one is learning, how can we learn and unlearned unhealthy
ways of parenting and learn new parenting practices that are
rooted in our children's liberation. And the third one is community.
How do we do this in community? How do we
actually practice that African proverb that it takes a village
so that we can collectively support Black children towards collective liberation.
(15:52):
And we do that through a variety of programs. We
do retreats, we do workshops, we host labs, we invest
in BLOS Black Parents leadership, and we also do some
policy work around systems that are impacting Black families. And
in addition to that, like you said, we have a podcast,
I teach some classes on Black families and Black youth
at a local university. So it's a broad reaching organization
(16:15):
and we're always just kind of innovating and thinking about
how can we show up for black families in the
current context and right now the context it is really grim,
and so really think about how do we show up
in ways that honor and celebrate black parents' joy and
freedom and play because the conditions in the society right
now are a little harsh, and so we might need
outlets for those things. So that's just a little bit
(16:37):
about the organization and what we're up to.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I love that you talked about the work that
it requires inward in order to be a good parent,
and especially when it comes to the organizing principles, right
because like you said, you can do all of this
empowering and all radical love within community, and yet you know,
(17:01):
when you get home, it's exhausting, and you let your
hair down, and you take the blazer off, and you
set the notebook down, and then it sometimes requires you
to tap in a little bit deeper to continue that
radical love and continue that empathy and that work within
your own home when sometimes you have just let it
all out within community. So I'm wondering if you have,
(17:26):
because you've also been very transparent about this kind of
how a lot of this shows up in previous podcast
episodes that you've had for parenting, for liberation and whatnot.
But I'm wondering if you have any insight as someone
who has lived this work and who's you know, had
to go through what you've gone through to get to
this point within your own work, do you have any
(17:49):
advice for people who may be kind of wrestling with
that same or a similar challenge within their own parenting
or within their own other mothering. As you mentioned Patricia
Ho'll Collin's work right, just showing up for the young
people in their lives, whether they are children or considered
legal adults in this country, because a lot of us
(18:11):
still continue to me parenting as we get older. Are
there any words of advice or just encouragement that you
have for people to see that role or that identity
as a parent as a site of healing for themselves
as they're navigating it and see it as an iterative process.
It's not you achieve it, you reach it, you're good,
(18:32):
but it's something they have to continue to evaluate and
come back to and unlearn and relearn all these different ways.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Absolutely, yes you said it. Listen, you said it. But
you know what comes to mind is, too often, as
parents we begin once. I don't know if it's just
a thing that just a primal thing that happens once
you become a parent, that you put your child as
like the center with them first, you know, like your
(19:01):
job is to protect them, to raise them, to encourage them,
to love them, to make them be, to grow and
to thrive. And so sometimes we think of parents parenting
as a sacrificial right, self sacrificing role right, and it
can be. And if you're talking about like what advice
(19:22):
can we give to folks who are in this role
of parent, who are doing their healing work is it
reminds me of that concept that you hear when you
get on the plane, when they say, you know, something
happens on the plane, put your own oxygen mask on
first before helping others. In order for us to do
all of that stuff towards our children, to love them,
to support them, to encourage them, to make them feel whole,
(19:42):
to make them feel beautiful like that, we have to
actually be able to do that for ourselves first, because
you can't pour from an empty cup and you can't
project out what you don't have inside. Right, we can
love our kids, but if we don't model what self
love looks like, then they will learn from us that
(20:02):
love is something you give to people, but you don't
give to yourself. And so I would say some of
the first steps is to do that healing work, is
to look within to discover what do I need? What
is the healing I need? And this is not selfish.
I know people will be like, oh, but you're a parent,
You're supposed to focus on your kids. That's selfish. It's
not selfish. Audrey Lord says it that caring for self
(20:24):
is survival. It's not selfish, right, So that we have
to take care of ourselves so that we can show
for our children. So I would say the first step
is to center thyself. And I know that sounds so
anti to what it means to be a parent, but
it is important for us to be well so that
we can actually offer our whole well selves to our children.
(20:46):
And that's what you know when you talked about that
coming home from work and being overwhelmed and exhausted, and
then your kids come to you and they want something
or need something. Sometimes you have to say, can I
just get my five to ten minutes to myself. That's
why so many parents sit in their car when they
pull up at home and they just sit in the
car for a little bit. It's like getting that time
to breathe, to relax, to listen to that song, your
(21:08):
favorite song, to pick me up song, or whatever you
need to do to take care of yourself so that
you can show up whole and well to our children. Yeah,
that would be my first thing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What I'm hearing is like a carving out of space,
and it's modeling that. And I think that that's also
when we talk about black and brown youth. They're often
not given the opportunity to carve out that space for themselves,
whether it's within their own families where they have, you know,
additional responsibilities and duties that are put on them, or
it's within school where they're hyper policed and told to
(21:41):
be quiet and sit down and you know, not really
given that space to explore. But seeing that modeled within
their parents and how they are showing up in the
family and for the family, just carving out personal self
care space. That's you know, that's powerful. Yeah, I appreciate
(22:01):
you saying that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, And it teaches them like when you carve out
the space for yourself, it does models that for them
so that they can now have access to that as well.
But also it teaches them boundaries. Right. We think about
you know, the topic of your podcasting about like bodily
autonomy and boundaries that if we don't model for them,
like when our kids come to us and want to
just like hug on us and climb on us or
(22:23):
those things like that this is our body right as parents,
and we could also have bodily autonomy and say you
know this, I don't really want to be touched right now,
or I'm overstimulated or whatever it may be. Right, it
models for our children that, oh, if you don't feel
comfortable with how someone is touching your body or interacting
with your body, that you have rights and voice and
you can say like, oh I don't like how that feels,
(22:45):
or no, you can't do that. But we have to
be able to model that too with our children and
also allow our children to model that with us. Yeah,
like our children being able to tell us like, oh, no,
I don't like the way that feels like, oh, don't
tickle me that way or whatever, or even our children
say like, Mom, I need some space, I need some
a long time. Like my kid tells me he wants
me to go upstairs because he can have downstairs to himself,
(23:07):
and I'd be like, oh, not, you just kicked me
out the living room, but okay, you could have it,
you know. But it's like, I want him to practice
being able to do that with me in the safety
of our home, so that if he's in other spaces
he can practice that, you know, when he's with his
friends or with his teammates, he has the experience of saying, no,
(23:30):
I don't like that, or I need this. Yeah, it's
like a self advocacy skill that we can model for them,
that about boundary setting and bodily autonomy that feels necessary
and important for their own well being and safety.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Absolutely, I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was
one of the questions that I had for you around.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
In the black community.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I see this specifically because I am a black woman
and that's the experience that I had in my childhood.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But there is.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
This this of you know, respecting elders and respecting authority,
and you know it is hug your grandparents when you
walk in the room, hug your aunt, tea, hank your uncle,
and make sure everybody feels respected in that way. But
it is kind of an entitlement to our bodies that
we're learning as a result of that entitlement that they
(24:19):
have to our bodies where we aren't necessarily in control
of that, and we can't say no because it's seen
as disrespectful. And you beautifully worded it, but I'm wondering
if you have any other thoughts around those other ways
that we teach consent and we teach boundaries and safety
in ways that don't perpetuate fear or shame, or that
(24:42):
just reinforce that this is okay to do and in fact,
this is probably the best thing for you to do
for yourself as a child or as a young person.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I man, I know exactly what you mean. I
grew up in a black family, black church. You know,
you hug your elders, you speak. It's interesting because there
is more conversation about bodily autonomy and agency and like
it's okay for a child to say no. And I've
had to deal with that myself where someone not necessarily
with my child, but I just had to intervene in
(25:13):
a family or community space where people were saying, oh,
like this person their children are is, their children are disrespectful,
their children are rude, And I'm like, why what if
they do And because they didn't speak or they didn't
like acknowledge or hug everybody, all the adults when they
came in the room, and I it was just like,
what makes you think that you have the right to
(25:35):
demand a physical touch of this child? Like what if
it makes them uncomfortable? What if they don't feel safe?
Like you don't know what's going on for that child.
Maybe they are overly stimulated by too many different people
touching them. You know, this goes all the way back. Listen,
this goes all the way back to when they're a baby.
Remember when you got to well, when I have my
infant and everybody's like, oh, let me hold the baby,
(25:57):
let me hold the baby, And it's like no, many
things to many jerseys. But also it's like that's the
first initiation into like everybody gets to touch this child
right into the baby's crying because they want to be
with their parent or whoever they're most familiar with, and
(26:18):
then if you do, pat if you don't, and then oh, well,
the baby's spoiled because the baby's crying out, Like it's
all this negative connotation around an infant. And so I think,
as parents who are juggling that what I've witnessed, even
in my own experience is as an adult, right, that
little girl inside of me may still feel like, oh,
(26:41):
I have to respect my elders, so I might not
feel empowered to tell this adult like, no, my child's
not going to hug you because they don't feel comfortable. Right.
And so again it's that same thing like we have
to do our healing work as parents so that we
can show up and support our children so that they
can their truth to power. So if we can't speak
(27:02):
to our elders and say, hey Grandma, hey pap, Paul, whoever,
you know, my kid's not really a hugger like that,
like they don't really prefer that. That's not that's not
their jam. They'll fish pump you, they might high five
you like whatever the thing is. And or even the
kissing like some kids are just like ill, don't kiss me,
don't pinch my feet.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Maybe affectionate in other ways physically, Yeah, that's their boundary.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not their thing. And so like being able to articulate
that boundary for your child, And if your child are
to tries to articulate the boundary and it's not respected
by adults, that then it is our responsibility as appearing
to intervene and make sure that they feel supported, because
it's too much pressure to put all of that on
a child to speak to that if we as the
adults have our own fears and own limitations around boundary setting.
(27:48):
So this is why we must practice it as adults
so that we can model for our children. And also
when our children are attempting to model it and may
feel and may be criticize in our community for being disrespectful,
that we as the adults can advocate on their behalf
and do it in a way that's loving. I know
that It's like, we don't want to disrespect our elders either,
and there's a way to honor and respect elders and
(28:09):
also hold boundaries and how can we be in boundary
relationship with our elders.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, I think that's such a cool way to particulate
what I've seen as a shift like a cultural shift
that's happening, of that being respected.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
And that being the norm.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Part of a friend group who has a podcast and
they talk all the time about different topics, a lot
of it related to the Black Church, and they consider
themselves former church girls. And I am the resident gen
Z even though I'm not actually gen Z, but I
like to say that I'm gen Z because I just
respect so much what gen Z is doing in terms of,
(28:52):
you know, pushing a lot of those boundaries exactly. And
I have I do have it recorded where I have
been adopted as an honoraryry gen Z for the record,
but I just I think that's something that I'm seeing
become very prominent. So I'm curious in your own parenting,
(29:17):
are there ways that your kids have taught you or
have encouraged your own healing in some of those capacities
of you've had to, you know, kind of rethink some
of your things in terms of what your kids are
like putting up in terms of their boundaries. I know
you mentioned, you know, getting kicked out of the living
room because because they need their.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Space, they need because there's no TV in their room
and I need, you know, I'm like Okay, you know
the parent. Yes, parenting has taught me so much. My
my my child sometimes says when it comes to some
of the parents of a liberation events or programs, he'll
be like, I'm kind of like the co founder is
non profit because it was because of her relationship, my
(30:01):
relationship to him that made me ask these questions. And
he definitely challenged me in beautiful ways. Not to say
all challenges don't have to be hard, but he challenged
me in beautiful ways to think about the way that
I communicate with him. As an example, I was more
likely in the past to elevate my voice when I
got frustrated. That was my like I would yell. I'd
(30:23):
be like, no, d d you know? And he would
he would ask me like, like why do you have
to yell? Like why can't you just say it regular,
you know? And so we had to come up with
all these things. I'm like, well, why do you do
things that frustrate me? Why do you do things that
you know? And so we would have these conversations and
I used to have all these rules and then he's like, well,
can we put rules on the list for you too?
(30:45):
So what kind of rules? And One of the rules
he wanted to have was when I'm getting frustrated, to
say it, to just name it, like let me know
you're getting frustrated before you you know, before I yell,
before I raise my boys. Just be like, I'm getting
a little frustrated right now, like I you know, just
like talk it through so that he could notice what
(31:07):
he was doing that was irritating or frustrating and if
he needed to modify things. But also sometimes it you know,
not even to always blame him. Sometimes I was frustrated
because I have limited capacity. There was not a lot
of mental space. I was overwhelmed, and I would take
it out. You know. He would be the you know
they said that the kids tap dance on your last nerve.
He would just be on the last nerve. But it's
not like he created all the other he didn't eliminate
(31:29):
all the previous names. Right, So so even that like
being able to be in conversation about it, about my
frustration levels and me yelling, and then he's like, well
what could he was, well, what could you do it?
Before you get to the yelling part he wanted to
know was there's something else, is like can you count
to ten or something like.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Let's work their way backwards.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Mom, He's like, what are the you know, he was
pushing me to be like, well, what are alternative practices
I could do? Like counting to ten is like taking
a deep breath, right, what of the wellness practices I
need to do? And you know, I grew up in
a household where my parents did yell like that was
and she yelled so much that I just thought like,
that's just how she talks. She's just very loud or something,
(32:10):
and so there was a way that I just didn't
engage with it as much, and I didn't want to
have that type of relationship with my kids. So he
definitely pushed me to stop yelling. He wouldn't say that
I completely stopped. I still sometimes do it and he'll
call me in with love. But I think the real
difference in this is that yet, like you said, the
new millennials, gen Z, I think there's alpha now in
(32:32):
beta now, we are more likely to be in conversation
with our parents and children in ways that adults didn't
really talk to kids in the same way, like let's
talk about how you're feeling. I mean, there's just been
a lot of evolution in the in this current generation
around talking about things, naming them, like pealing back the curtain,
(32:59):
you know, the truths, talking about the taboo things, whether
it be like we need mental health resources, we need therapy,
we you know, like there's just a radical vulnerability that
I commend and appreciate because you know, we were raised
by folks from the different generations, whether it be the
Boomers or the silent generation, and I would call this
(33:21):
current generation the like out loud generation, like no more silence,
let's talk about it one percent.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And I think that kind of takes me to something
else that I wanted to talk with you about.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You have spoken about this need.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
For vulnerability, right, and that that ties in so much
for vulnerability between parents and children. So parents rejecting that
notion that they have to be tough, rejecting the notion
that they have to know everything, that they always have
to be strong, that they always have to have the
right answer, and that may be complicated by a into
(34:00):
having this additional identity or having had this experience of
being a sexual assault or a sexual violence survivor. Right,
that can really complicate and change the direction of what
that looks like for someone so I'm curious just in general,
when we're talking about all of these things that we
(34:20):
have to kind of unlearn or relearn or reorient ourselves
or what would you say, I guess to survivors who
are raising children while they're actively navigating their healing in
that space. And it could be healing, like I said,
from sexual violence, but it could be healing from just
the trauma of whatever it is that has shown up
(34:42):
in their lived experience.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah. Yeah, And many of us are survivors of different
forms of abuse or violence, particularly as black parents, and
but just the rates of violence that we experience, whether
it be intimate partner violence, sexual violence, child sexual abuse,
the way violence Rouers has had in our community is
very disruptive. And so what I would say to survivors,
(35:08):
like including myself, I had to learn one to do
my own healing work and not think that it's one
and done, like it's an ongoing Like you said, healing
is a journey, it's a process. So whatther that be
therapy talk, therapy group programs. Yeah, I've done a variety
of things to just kind of like let's talk about
it and in that process, right, I've also learned in
(35:32):
my parenting that I was parenting from fear right, fear
that something similar could happen to my child, right. And
so in that fear based parenting, I realized that I
was projecting to protect, right, So I would project what
happened to me or what could happen to my child, right,
(35:52):
And so instead of allowing my child to have experience things,
I would be like, oh, no, you can't do that.
You can't go here, you can't go anywhere, you can't
spend at people's I is. You know, it was like
I was overly projecting my experience onto my child and
also limiting him, thinking that that was protection. But it
wasn't right because when I shut down talking about those things,
(36:15):
if I shut down his ability to experience, you know,
different people or different spaces, then it limits his ability
to then be able to name if something is happening,
or to be able to speak to his experience. And
so I had to shift from that protection type of
parenting because it was limiting him and it wasn't actually
providing any protection. And so instead I was more likely
(36:37):
to like, let's talk about the things in ways that
were to me protection was about prevention, instead of like
limiting him. I'm like, how do we prevent this, right,
So talking to him in age appropriate ways about his body,
his body parts, age appropriate ways. If we got there,
(36:57):
we got to sex a little too early, and I
was not fair to talk about seconds, but just talking
about like his body, right, and not in a way
that like, you know, people could hurt your body, but
really talk about his body as a way like this
is a sacred this is you are a sacred being.
You're beautiful. Here your parts and give me telling them
the actual names of the parts, like you have a venus,
(37:17):
you have testicles, girls have a vagina. And people thought like, well,
why was I explaining that to a kid who was
like three, I'm like, because he just needs to know
his body, right, and so like just being able to
talk about the body in ways that are positive because
some of my experiences in childhood with the body were
(37:39):
negative because of my trauma. And I didn't want him
to have a negative relationship with his body. I didn't
want him to have ideas that like this was secret
or you know, like it was something to be hidden.
I mean, there are parts of your body that are
supposed to be private, obviously, but I wanted us to
have this like very open conversation. We're just gonna sit
(38:00):
here and talk about sex, penus, vaginas, and it's not inappropriate,
it's not taboo, it's not risque, because I believe if
you could talk about it in ways that are like
I said, positive and empowering, that it gives my child.
It gave my child, It gives my child agency over
his body, and that's what we really want.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Absolutely, that's those lifetime tools, right, Like those are things
that when a child recognizes that about themselves, that my
body is sacred. This is the functionality of my body,
This is the reproductive system and what that means in
age appropriate context as you said, but like this, this
is what my body, this is what my body is,
this is what this person's body is. It's just there
(38:45):
is a like an innate need to know and understand
those functions and understand it as sacred. So that is
something that someone can carry throughout the rest of their
development and have that mindset pour it into them where
they then see themselves as sacred beings and sacred bodies
and you know, just the positive impact that could come
from that throughout someone's life trajectory is just so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
It's a gift that you.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Were able to give your son, And thank you for
sharing that, because I think we do often hear the
more taboo perspective around our bodies, especially for children. People
are like, oh, I don't want to you know, saying
penis and vagina and volva is a bit too much
for kids. And it's like, but why because they're seeing
it and they have to use it, and you know,
(39:31):
there's ways that they need to understand themselves that is
develop mentally appropriate, that can just carry forward and really
and evolve, And that gift that you're giving them of
seeing themselves as beautiful as they are, you know, is
really powerful. Yeah, And there was something else that I
wanted to come back to that I think would be
(39:51):
helpful for people because I feel like this is a
very real experience getting to the sex conversation before you
were mentally ready as a par and that can happen
in a number of instances, right, with a number of
different topics, not just necessarily sex. So like, if you
don't mind, are you comfortable talking about.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
What that looks like?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (40:17):
It was not accident, but have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And I think that's the other thing. It was an
accidental mess and also like it's not a one and
done conversation. Yeah, is what I recently learned. I recently learned.
I'm like, I thought we talked about this. Oh my gosh,
we gotta do this again and again and again. So
it's a messy, a beautiful mess of a conversation. And
I think what you said earlier is like this generation
(40:40):
is okay with not being right and saying I don't
really know and I'm not an expert, I mean not
being sex an expert, right, So I remember I feel
like my kid was like maybe in third grade, and
I was talking, this is the problem because I'm so theoretical.
I was talking about racism and sexism, right, That's what
(41:00):
I was really talking about.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
The third grade sex conversation or.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
This was.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay because I was saying the word sexism got you.
He was like, mom, why do you keep saying that word?
And I'm like, well, word racism, sexism, like which one.
He's like, you know, sex And I'm like, oh, what
do you know about Like what what do you know
(41:29):
about it? And then he's like I know about it
and I'm like, oh, tell me what you know, right,
And he was just like his little third grade friend
or something had told him that sex was Like what
did he say? Sex was a mom and a dad
getting in the bed with only with their underwear on
or something like that. And I'm like, and then what
do they do? And then he's like and then they kiss?
(41:50):
And I'm like anything else and he's like no. And
I was like, Okay, We'll just let you believe that
that's what sex is for now because that is the
third grade age appropriate one. But over time, like we
have to continue to like talk about sex. Even though
I feel like that's I'm so open to be like,
let's talk about it. My kid is more like, Mom,
let's just not talk about it. So because I would
(42:12):
like explain it probably in too much detail, which I
do because I'm like, you need to know all the things,
especially also in this time of like gender expansiveness around
the expanses of sexual orientations. So even when he was like, oh,
it's a mom and a dad, and I was like,
you know, some families don't have a mom and a dad.
Some people have two dads or two moms, or they
might have folks who are non binary, so you know,
(42:33):
like it doesn't always have to be a mom and
a dad in the bed, right, So just like being
able to have those conversations freely, that was the messy
one because then I was like trying to explain sex,
but he was talking. I was talking about sexism and
something about you know, gender equity, and here we go
talking about sex. And I was just like, I'm gonna
(42:55):
let you kese the third grade version that your friend
told you, and then we'll come back to it. But
it's definitely that I should have got to come back
to because even if you explained it, and you explained
all the things, and I had all the books, I
had sex as a fuddy words, the book that I
had like just bought him and left in his room.
It was like, careuse it at your own at your
own leisure, and then we'll talk about it. Just like
(43:15):
creating multiple avenues. I've had him look up videos like
there's like different sex ed kind of like YouTube channels
that are like videos that explain like the reproductive system,
explain how to make a baby, explain that this act
that is fun and may feel good could lead to
children or other things. So like how to talk about
(43:36):
like what what is all involved? I had to get
you know, I'm his parents, so I'm also just not
the coolest person to talk to. So I had to
go reach out to the aunties. That's why it's important
to have the other mothers. And I have friends who
are like youth program, you know, workers who still do
youth program. And I'm like, I need you to talk
to my son about sex because he's uncomfortable talking to
(43:56):
me about it. And so I do know, I have
to tag people in because maybe we aren't the right person.
And are there other trusted adults in your child's life
that you feel like, well, I trust them. Maybe you
talk to that adult to make sure you have shared
values about the conversation and then tell them, like, you know,
you give them permission to talk to your kid about
sex in ways that are empowering, that are body positive,
(44:19):
and that are about to me. I'm always like mindful
of consent, Like I want to make sure that my
child understands consent in terms of receiving consent from other
people if he's going to engage in any physical activity,
but also making sure that he knows that he also
has the right to like give consent and not give consent.
I think at a time, because I was raising a boy,
I was so focused on him making sure he got
(44:41):
consent that I realized I was not giving him this
tools to ensure that he wanted to consent and often
to things that maybe someone was inviting him into. So
that's also that's a word element. He was definitely a learning.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, especially as you know, raising a black boy, you're
so focused on on you know what the sort of
dominant sociocultural narratives are around black boyhood and sex and
black men and sex, and young black men specifically in sex,
and you want to make sure that they are protected,
(45:16):
but there's there's so much, as you mentioned, that gets
lost on their end. It's important for them to understand
that they also have the right to give consent and
they also, you know, have bodily autonomy and they can
make choice and black boys and young black men and
black men in general can also be victims and survivors
(45:38):
of sexual violence and they're not always on the perpetrator side.
So yeah, that's such an important thing to say, and
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, and there was a learning I had to learn
after not doing it, not explaining that to him, and
I was so much so focused. You know, I'm raising
a black boy. I live in a predominantly white neighborhood.
So I'm like, put your potential partners in this area, right,
could potentially be people who who have different values. I'll
(46:13):
just say that, who have a different perspective. And I
know some of the dominant narratives about, like you said,
black boys and the way that people over sexualize or
hyper sexualized black children period, whether it be boys or girls,
and that I want to make sure that he was safe.
So again I was utilizing that protection method and forgot
to honor him to be like, oh, and you also
(46:35):
have rights to say I'm not interested or no, thank you,
or to turn people down and don't feel required to
just say yes, you know. So, yeah, I don't get
it right every time. That's why you got to do
it more than one time.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, And talking about utilizing the village, right, I think
that's why it's so important for us to keep that
concept in mind of we may not be the right
conveyors of the message. That message needs to come from somewhere.
So what does one's village look like of people who
can who you can tap for that particular conversation where
(47:09):
the message may come in more clearly than it does
from you as the messenger, or you know, whatever the
case may be in that dynamic. And so this kind
of takes me to one of my last questions this
show is about. You know, we're taking it from like
an afrofuturism perspective. We really want to look at what
does it truly look like to be post sexual violence,
(47:32):
post rape culture, all of those things, and to center
our experiences when it comes to healing and what does
it look like to be healed as black women, black fem's,
black gender expanse of folks, like what does it look
like for us to be in this community where we
are healed? And so you've spoken about and I don't
want to prompt you too much because I do want
(47:53):
to hear what kind of comes out for you. But
you've talked about the beloved community and what that looks
like for you, and it's this vision of what's possible
and all the systems of oppression are eliminated and we
do the work together, which is just fire emojis all
over the place.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
But I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
It was an older interview that you did, and I
was just like, that is just such a we're working
towards something, right, Just like with I was talking about
like the actual name of your organization, Parenting for Liberation.
It's an action, it's an action word. It's working towards
liberation on both ends. I think it's the beloved community
(48:34):
is working towards that community. We're working towards what it
looks like to be oppression free in our society. So
I'm wondering if you could imagine a liberated future we're
no black girl, no black fem, no black person experiences
sexual violence. Again, what would that world look like for you?
(48:56):
In what role do you see parenting playing part of that?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
When you said, like a world where there's no like violence,
like sexual violence or any of that harm, I was like, Oh,
I think it's a world where black women, girls, fem,
non binary treads. All the people could possibly like sleep
with our doors unlocked, you know, like not have to
(49:22):
worry about potential harm or threats or violence. Right. There's
a way that.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
We often as folks who have experienced violence or who
live in bodies that experience violence, that we always have
this thing running a track running in our heads, like
just getting our environments.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Looking over our back when we walk to our car,
we look in the back seat. When we walk to
our car, we have our cues. Like all those things
that we do to try to keep ourselves safe, we
wouldn't have to do that. So I feel like our
minds would be a little lighter, the like mental load
of trying to keep ourselves safe would be able to
(50:03):
be used to, Like I could be walking to my
car and dreaming and thinking of all these new possibilities
instead of thinking about okay, am I safe? Who's on
the corner? You know, Like it would I would have
so much. I feel like there would be like this
mental load release and like it could be filled with
so many things like joy and pleasure and play and
(50:24):
dreams and imagination. So I think that that in and
of itself is like whow, Like little black kids could
just be free to play and not be looking over
their shoulders or not be worried. Also that means that
we could trust people, right, like people that you might
(50:46):
be more likely to be like cautious or worried about.
Like actually we could trust each other. We could trust
that our children are safe. We could trust that our
children are taken care of, right, we could trust that
the village is actually a village of love and care
and support, not a village of harm or violence. Our
children could have more voice, more agency, more power because
they would believe in themselves, they have a whole sense
(51:07):
of worth. They'd feel free in their bodies. So it
just I could imagine more dancing or playing, more jump
rope in more just yeah. Like, even as I think
about it, I'm like, ah, I.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Just want to be free right now. I see it.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
I see the like physical response to that. Right, It's
like it's a lot of shoulder action, just light.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah, we can released all of it. I'm like, oh,
as you said it, I was just like, take it off.
Take all that, you know, extra like thing that we carry,
like that light and that load. And how could parenting
get us there? Hmm? I think hmm. I think that
if we cultivate freedom for ourselves, right, if we release
(51:54):
as the parents, we release all these preconceived notions about
what it means to be a black girl, black boy, right,
because some of that societal expectation and burden is also
what I like, let go of right, Like if I'm
not worried about my children in that way I'm not
worried about violence, then also I could have more release
(52:14):
as a parent to then be in a playful, more fun,
more interactive and engaging relationship with my child. Like now
me and my child can be friends, you know how,
like in the black cultures, like I'm not one of
your little friends. Like maybe we actually could be friends
with our children, and they'd actually want to still be
in relationship with us when they became adults. We should
wonder why when black children, well children generally, but when
(52:37):
they become adults, when they go no contact with their parents,
sometimes it's like, well, what was that relationship like with
you at home? And so I think that releasing that
burden of fear of violence or violence or perpetration allows
us to be more liberated and free in our expression
of love and care for our children. That would make
(52:58):
the relationship one of love, enjoy and reciprocity. So yeah,
sign me up. Where's my ticket? Yeah, where's my ticket
to this new world?
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Well, we're working.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
All of this is the work to get there, right,
all of the yes, like this conversation here, this is
the work to get us there, and so I so
appreciate you. I appreciate those words that you have spoken
into us as the listeners, and you know, I just
I receive it, and I know there's going to be
such a positive and beautiful response to what you've shared
(53:32):
with us of yourself and your family dynamics and you know,
just all of this that you've you know, built up
in your work over the years. And so I just
appreciate your time so much, and I'm grateful for you
and grateful for this conversation because it was really you
dropped some gems, and your podcast drops gems constantly. So
make sure you listen to Parenting for Liberation, make sure
(53:55):
you check out all of the work or any like
shout outs that you want to give for how people
can find you. You know, if people want to support
and learn more about your work anywhere, you want to
direct them specifically, and we'll make sure it's all in
the show notes as well.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yes, absolutely so. We have a website parentsofilibraation dot org.
We have Instagram Parent of Liberation, we have Facebook Parents
of Liberation, and we have a YouTube channel, Parent of Deliberation.
Everything's Parential Liberation and if you want to buy the
book Parents of Liberation, a guy for Raising Black Children,
that's available at Feminist Press. You could also request it
(54:31):
at one of your local black owned bookstores if you can,
and if you know you need in another way, it's
always available on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
And like you said, your organization does work nationwide, so
we'll make sure people know where and how they can
reach out to you for some of your programming and
to learn more information if they're looking to bring you
to where they are.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, if you have any if you have any inquiries
for Parent Lilboration, you could always email info at Parentsofiliberation
dot org.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Thank you to I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Thank you. I appreciate you as well.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Trina and I had an amazing conversation, But what really
stuck out to me as the ritual from our time
together was the importance of self care, not just for survivors,
but for those doing the sacred work of healing alongside us.
Because self care can be hard to sell. To figure
out how to fit into your life and that's okay,
(55:29):
it's not always going to be perfect, and that's why
we do this in community. First, I want to lift
up a powerful survivor resource from Me to International's Healing Toolkit,
It's all about triggers. You've probably heard the term used
a ton lately on social media and TV shows and
(55:49):
in movies. It's everywhere, but what does it actually mean.
The toolkit defines a trigger as a trauma reminder. It
could be a place, sound to smell, a conversation, or
anything that really activates our nervous system and kick starts
that survival response. They describe it as a surprise emotion.
(56:10):
You might feel it coming out of nowhere, but your
body remember something your brain may not have the words
for yet. So when we're triggered, we have to find
ways to remind ourselves that I am safe, right here.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And right now.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
So the link in the show notes offer some really
helpful ideas on how to regulate or cope after a trigger.
It's a reminder that you don't have to just push through.
You get to pause, you get to breathe, and you
get to care for yourself. So that's another tool for
your healing to look get now. If you are in
(56:45):
the sacred position of being seen as a safe space
for someone who discloses or shares their story with you,
listen closely when I tell you this part. You are
not alone either. Holding space for someone's pain can activate
your own wounds, especially if you've experienced something similar or
never had the space to process your own story.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
That's real.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
There are a couple of links in the show notes
for you. Here's a short version. Boundaries are not barriers,
they are safety nets. Understand them, maintain them. And as
Trina said during our conversation, it's an honor to be
trusted with someone's truth, but you can't pour from an
empty cup. She gave us that great metaphor of when
(57:28):
you're on a plane and you have to put your
own mask on before you can put someone else's on.
You have to take care of yourself in order to
be in a position to take care of others. And
so another part of our conversation that I've been sitting
with is the unique survivor experience of childhood sexual abuse
and how it shapes the journey into parenthood. How do
(57:51):
you care for a child while still learning how to
care for the child inside yourself. That's where organizations like
Cactus Simple come in. Trina spoke with the founder, Ebene
Williams on her podcast earlier this year. Definitely check that out.
I included the link in the show notes. And Ebony
created Cactus and Bloom after realizing how many questions she
(58:14):
had in her own healing journey, and she had nowhere
to go. There were no guides, She had to just
find her way. And this is how Ebene describes her
reasoning for creating Cactus and Bloom.
Speaker 3 (58:28):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
While thinking about the points at which sexual abuse carries
forward to the next generation, and as many survivors of
child sexual abuse experience being haunted by how to have
the cycle end with them, it was clear to Ebony
that even in her own journey, the questions she had
didn't have anywhere to go, there was no one to ask.
(58:53):
Many of the circumstances that can recreate cycles didn't have
a disruptor end quote, and so Ebone goes on to
name some of those disruptors. She describes him as including
financial insecurity, retraumatization associated with pregnancy and birth, a lack
(59:13):
of support requiring difficult decisions being made during that time,
and so many more that creates the circumstances for abuse
to continue within those cycles and dynamics. And then she
builds something to address them. So, after finding her niche
and leaning into the gap that she saw in child
(59:35):
sexual abuse survivor supports, Cactus and Bloom rolled out its
new course on perinatal and infant care that sent hers
child sexual abuse and sexual violence survivors who are black
in Lgbtqia plus.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
So let Ebene's.
Speaker 1 (59:51):
Commitment to showing up for her community and building space
that she needed as part of her self care practice
be a reminder for all of us to do what
I always tell us to do, and that's take care
of yourself, take care of one another, and release whatever
shame or guilt you may be feeling about the harm
that's been done to you. You're not alone, So as
(01:00:19):
you sit with that, and as we come to the
end of this episode, I'd really love to hear from
you all what's resonating with you. What are the rituals
of self care that you're building in your life right now?
Tag us at the Unwanted Sorority on all socials to
share what's been keeping you feeling grounded, safe and whole,
and you can also slide into the DMS. I'm really
(01:00:41):
excited to hear what's working for you all and share
that with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Next week, I'm going to be doing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Something I have never done before, and that's talking to
my parents about this experience. So, kind of building off
of Trina's parenting theme, you'll hear firsthand from my parents
about what it was like for them to hear me
disclose about my assault for the first time. The conversation
is raw, it's honest, and it's the kind of conversation
(01:01:08):
that too many families never get to have. You don't
want to miss it. So if you haven't already, make
sure you're subscribed to The Unwanted Sorority on your favorite
podcast platform. And if this episode spoke to you, rate it,
review it, share it so we can reach someone else
who might need to hear it. Until next time, stay safe,
stay connected, and remember this is a safe space, not
(01:01:30):
a quiet space. I'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive produced by me
Leander Tate. Our executive producer is Joel Money, our producer
is Carmen Lorenz, and original cover art is created by
Savannah Muler. I would also like to be of special
thanks to the I Heard Podcast Next Up program for
helping bring the show to life. Also, all of the
guests who have taken a step in sharing their story
with you all on these episodes. And finally, to all
(01:02:02):
the members of the sorority who will never tell their story.
We see you and your story matters.
Welcome back to another episode of The Unwanted Sorority. I
am your host, doctor Leetratate. This is a space created
for and by Black women, fems, and gender expansive folks
who have experienced sexual violence. So whether you lifted, you
love someone who has, or you simply want to hold space,
you're welcome here. On this week's show, we're giving flowers
(00:26):
to the one and only doctor Patricia Hill Collins, whom
our guest today actually shares who has served as an
inspiration for her in a lot of her work. And
you'll also hear from our role call guests, the one
and only Trina Green, founder of Parenting for Liberation, where
she'll describe how.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Parenting for Liberation is about how do we center liberation
in our parenting practice, liberating ourselves and our children.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Will also unpack what self care looks like for parents
who are survivors of sexual violence, or if they're parenting
children who have shared or disclosed that they've had an
experience and don't forget the Unwanted sobrity is a space
for community connection and care, but it's not a substitute
for professional mental health, medical or legal support. So if
(01:14):
you hear anything that resonates in a way that feels heavy.
I encourage you to reach out to someone you trust
or a licensed clinician. You deserve to feel well and
you deserve to be supported. Today we're giving flowers to
one of our intellectual fore mothers, doctor Patricia Hill Collins,
(01:38):
a woman whose work has help shape how we talk
about Black womanhood, survival, and sexual violence. Patricia Hill Collins
is a true pioneer in black womenist scholarship, and she
spent decades amplifying black women's voices and telling her truth.
Born in nineteen forty eight, Collins was raised in a
working class black neighborhood in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. While she's never
(02:02):
publicly identified as a survivor of sexual violence, her body
of work has been absolutely foundational in naming what so
many of us know in our bones. She came of
age during desegregation, notably often one of the only black
girls in her classroom. She often said quote, my world
(02:22):
grew larger, but I felt like I was growing smaller.
Those early experiences of isolation, of being made to feel
lesser eventually led to her feeling silenced. But even then,
the seeds of resistance were already being planted. Her mother,
a domestic worker and a dreamer, as Collins described her,
(02:44):
used to take her on what she would call magical
trips to the library. There she was surrounded by books
and ideas, where little Patricia found her voice. In a
twenty twenty three Time magazine interview, Patricia Hill, Collins states, quote,
a life of the mind and its ability to set
you free, I would say started with that moment of reading,
(03:06):
becoming a believer in libraries, books, free speech, the power
of ideas in public space end quote. That belief took
her all the way to Brandeis University, where she studied
sociology and learned under the guidance of civil rights icon
Polly Murray, and by the time the nineteen sixties rolled around,
(03:29):
Collins was already developing the critical lens that would come
to define her career with intersectionality, and to be clear,
her analytical lens is not to be confused with Kimberly
Crenshaw's political framework. While similar, there are definitely differences. Collins
defined her critical social theory as the way that race, gender, class, sexuality, nation,
(03:52):
and age mutually shape our social experiences and ultimately how
black women have shaped the world. Her first book, Black
Women's Thought, which was published in nineteen ninety, was so
critical to this movement. In it, Collins drew on everything
from slave narratives and blues songs to her own experiences,
articulating how black women's perspectives on issues like work, family,
(04:16):
and sexual abuse intertwined. In her later work Black Sexual Politics,
she Held Us Accountable, She challenged the ways that black
communities have historically stayed quiet on the rape of black women.
In the book, she states, quote black women were encouraged
to keep quiet in order to subdue the idea of
(04:37):
their wanton sexuality end quote. She wasn't afraid to name
the fact that we rallied around lynch black men, and
we should have to be honest, But too often they
did not show up with that same energy for Black
women and girls who were being assaulted in our own
homes and neighborhoods. She also called out how even now,
(05:00):
when black women or girls report sexual abuse were often
seen as angry, fast lying, or too strong to be hurt.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
We talked about that a.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Little bit in the bonus episode, and that'll be kind
of a theme that we come back to throughout the season.
Too many of us are dismissed or disbelieved, and Collins
didn't just theorize it. She traced it all the way
back to the Jezebel, the Mammy, the sapphire, and the
strong black women, those tropes that have caused us our
safety or tenderness in our humanity over the years. And
(05:32):
she doesn't just stop there. She lifts up this legacy
of resistance, of refusing to be quiet, from the enslaved
black women who fought back against sexual violence that was
normalized at the time, to Ida b Wells, who linked
the anti lynching campaign to the defensive black womanhood, to
Rosa Parks, who before the bus boycott, investigated rape cases
(05:55):
against black women in the South in the nineteen forties,
and even to today marching under hashtag me two, hashtag
times up, hashtags say her Name, and hashtag girls too.
That's the legacy that Collins has written us into over
the years. She's especially insistent that we listen to black
girls because the abuse starts early, and if we don't
(06:19):
name it, the world certainly won't.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
She reminds us that no.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Black girl's trauma should ever be considered normal, despite what
society tries to make us think, actually base my own
conceptualization of a similar theory, which I call the socialization
of trauma on Colin's work, and I talk about that
more in my dissertation. She reminds us that every story
(06:44):
deserves to be heard with full humanity. Her most recent book,
Lethal Intersections, Race, Gender, and Violence, which she published in
twenty twenty three, continues that work. She shows us how
ordinary people people like us, organize, resist, and protect one another,
even at the intersections of violence that society refuses to acknowledge. Today,
(07:08):
as a Distinguished Professor Emerita, doctor Patricia Hill Collins still
challenges us to tell the truth, to believe black girls,
to name what we see, and to understand that we
are not alone. She once said, most activism is brought
about by ordinary people like ourselves, and that's exactly what
(07:32):
we're about in this sorority. So today we send deep
love and gratitude to doctor Patricia Hill Collins. Your work
gave us language, your legacy gives us a path, and
your voice gives us courage. So these flowers are for you,
(07:58):
all right. So it is my honor to introduce y'all
to the unwanted Sororities first official role call guest Miss
Trina Green. She is a self identified black feminist, mama activist,
and she's also the founder and executive director of Parenting
for Liberation. Parenting for Liberation is an organization created to
support black parents as they collectively heal from and interrupt
(08:23):
intergenerational violence to build resilient and joyful Black families and community.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Trina also lectures and.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Writes on topics of African American families at cal State Fullerton,
and her writing has been featured in on Parenting for
The Washington Post, in Essence Magazine, La Parent Magazine, and
in several anthologies. Her book Parenting for Liberation, A Guide
for Raising Black Children, debuted on Juneteenth in twenty twenty
(08:51):
by Feminist Press. So let's get in this incredible interview.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you so.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Much again for agreeing to do this. I just want
to give you a chans to introduce yourself to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Hey, y'all, my name is Trina Green, and I'm the
founder and executive director of Parenting for Liberation.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh? I was like, is that it?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Like, I know what, I know what I have found
of the organization. I know what I've found of your work.
I know you know all of that, But what does
it mean to you? Because those are those are some
strong words. So what does parenting for Liberation mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
For you? Yeah, thank you and thanks for having me on.
By the way, So parenting liberation to me means twofold.
So oftentimes we think of parenting as what we do
with our children. But some of the work that I've
been doing and even started this organization, of some of
the reparenting work that I've done with myself. So parenting
(09:53):
for Liberation is about how do we center liberation in
our parenting practice, liberating ourselves and our children. And it's
specifically working with black families because we're raising children here
in America in places where our children weren't meant to
survive and a lot of conditions are not set up
for our children to thrive. And as we're trying to
fight and advocate for a world where our children can
(10:15):
be free, that we have to parent them in a
liberated way that gives them voice, agency, autonomy, and also
cultivates their sense of power and inherent self worth.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I appreciate that so much because it's action, right, It's
not just action for your children or for our children.
It's both action for our children and with our children,
but also for ourselves as parent and just you know,
in full transparency, I am not a parent, but this
(10:49):
is work and perspective that I think is so central
to what this podcast is all about with the Unwanted Sorority.
It's many of us are experiencing parenthood and living through parenthood,
and we have all been children of someone, right, And
so I think this concept of parenting for liberation is
just so critical to this conversation because it's about kind
(11:13):
of caring for ourselves and that inner child that we
hear in pop culture and pop psychology. Right, Everybody talk about,
you know, caring for our inner child, and it's so true.
Sometimes you do have to reparent and relearn what parenting
looks like when you may not have had great models.
But it's also about like the action of like collective liberation.
(11:35):
So I really appreciate that. And for those who may
not know, as you mentioned, you have a podcast, and
you have a book that you've put out around this stuff,
and you've got a nonprofit and I'll just let you
speak to kind of someone of what parenting for liberation
looks like for you if you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Absolutely, And I want to say, like, you might not
be a biological parent, but there may maybe folks in
your life who you are parenting, mothering, and just wanting
to honor Patricia Hill Collins work around mother work and
other work and how in the black community it's about
caring for the collective and it's about even the unties,
(12:15):
the uncles, the play unties, the play uncles, you know,
the play cousins that we are all oftentimes parenting, mothering
other mothering in our community. So I just wanted to
invite you into the space. I appreciate that, into the
space and know that everybody, you know, all of us
can be parenting for liberation regardless of our biological connections
(12:37):
to children. It's about that commitment to the collective liberation
as you talked about. And so just a little bit
about Parents of Liberation. Yeah, so we're based out of
southern California, but we do work nationwide. Founded in twenty sixteen,
so we're heading too our ten year anniversary. And it
started literally as a podcast. I was interviewing black parents
because I was curious about how can I practice liberation
(12:57):
in my home. I had been an act and did
a lot of youth organizing work in my younger days
before I became a parent. I was the youth activist
and youth organizer who wanted to support young people and
having voice, agency power, being able to speak to adults
about agism and about their own rights to be self
(13:18):
actualized as young people. And then I became a parent
of a black boy right after we had our first
black president, and as a lot of folks know that
having a black president led to a lot of we
just talked about mercury, mercury being a retrograde, but there
was like a resurgence of anti blackness and white supremacy,
and the impact of that on black folks is that
(13:38):
we started to witness a lot more violence. So I
was raising a black child at this time when Black
Lives Matter came on the scene, and really was doing
a lot of activism work around not only about black lives,
but also black children's lives. And though I was doing
that work, I was doing this work at schools and
with young people advocated, and then I would go home
(14:01):
and be the opposite. I was control I was like power,
top down parenting, do what I say, don't ask me
any questions. It was very antithetical to who I was
and my values that I had in my work, and
I couldn't understand what the disconnect was about. So I
started to do my research. I started to interview black parents,
(14:23):
like how do you practice being gentle? How do you
practice being gracious? How do you practice being soft when
there's so much fear, there's so much trauma. And so
in the work that I do in the gender based
finlence move and the work that I do in the
racial justice movement, I learned, you know I know this
to be true, is that you can't you can't fear
(14:43):
based parent liberation.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I couldn't create all these rules and structures and limit
his ability to be free if I still wanted him
to believe that he could be free. And so I
had to release some of those control, those power and
control dynamics that I was exhibiting, and realized that it
was about my fear. I was afraid for his safety
his well being, and so I was like literally like
holding him down instead of lifting him up. And so
(15:07):
that's what created the organization, is that I really wanted
to explore how do we practice this, like these liberation
principles that we do in organizing work in our homes,
how do we create spaces where our children can be free,
where they can push back, where they can't ask us questions,
where they can have voice and agency. And so the
nonprofit does a variety of work, but it centers on
three focus areas. Which is healing justice, which is how
(15:29):
do we as black parents heal from our trauma so
that we can interrupt in a generational violence. The second
one is learning, how can we learn and unlearned unhealthy
ways of parenting and learn new parenting practices that are
rooted in our children's liberation. And the third one is community.
How do we do this in community? How do we
actually practice that African proverb that it takes a village
so that we can collectively support Black children towards collective liberation.
(15:52):
And we do that through a variety of programs. We
do retreats, we do workshops, we host labs, we invest
in BLOS Black Parents leadership, and we also do some
policy work around systems that are impacting Black families. And
in addition to that, like you said, we have a podcast,
I teach some classes on Black families and Black youth
at a local university. So it's a broad reaching organization
(16:15):
and we're always just kind of innovating and thinking about
how can we show up for black families in the
current context and right now the context it is really grim,
and so really think about how do we show up
in ways that honor and celebrate black parents' joy and
freedom and play because the conditions in the society right
now are a little harsh, and so we might need
outlets for those things. So that's just a little bit
(16:37):
about the organization and what we're up to.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I love that you talked about the work that
it requires inward in order to be a good parent,
and especially when it comes to the organizing principles, right
because like you said, you can do all of this
empowering and all radical love within community, and yet you know,
(17:01):
when you get home, it's exhausting, and you let your
hair down, and you take the blazer off, and you
set the notebook down, and then it sometimes requires you
to tap in a little bit deeper to continue that
radical love and continue that empathy and that work within
your own home when sometimes you have just let it
all out within community. So I'm wondering if you have,
(17:26):
because you've also been very transparent about this kind of
how a lot of this shows up in previous podcast
episodes that you've had for parenting, for liberation and whatnot.
But I'm wondering if you have any insight as someone
who has lived this work and who's you know, had
to go through what you've gone through to get to
this point within your own work, do you have any
(17:49):
advice for people who may be kind of wrestling with
that same or a similar challenge within their own parenting
or within their own other mothering. As you mentioned Patricia
Ho'll Collin's work right, just showing up for the young
people in their lives, whether they are children or considered
legal adults in this country, because a lot of us
(18:11):
still continue to me parenting as we get older. Are
there any words of advice or just encouragement that you
have for people to see that role or that identity
as a parent as a site of healing for themselves
as they're navigating it and see it as an iterative process.
It's not you achieve it, you reach it, you're good,
(18:32):
but it's something they have to continue to evaluate and
come back to and unlearn and relearn all these different ways.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Absolutely, yes you said it. Listen, you said it. But
you know what comes to mind is, too often, as
parents we begin once. I don't know if it's just
a thing that just a primal thing that happens once
you become a parent, that you put your child as
like the center with them first, you know, like your
(19:01):
job is to protect them, to raise them, to encourage them,
to love them, to make them be, to grow and
to thrive. And so sometimes we think of parents parenting
as a sacrificial right, self sacrificing role right, and it
can be. And if you're talking about like what advice
(19:22):
can we give to folks who are in this role
of parent, who are doing their healing work is it
reminds me of that concept that you hear when you
get on the plane, when they say, you know, something
happens on the plane, put your own oxygen mask on
first before helping others. In order for us to do
all of that stuff towards our children, to love them,
to support them, to encourage them, to make them feel whole,
(19:42):
to make them feel beautiful like that, we have to
actually be able to do that for ourselves first, because
you can't pour from an empty cup and you can't
project out what you don't have inside. Right, we can
love our kids, but if we don't model what self
love looks like, then they will learn from us that
(20:02):
love is something you give to people, but you don't
give to yourself. And so I would say some of
the first steps is to do that healing work, is
to look within to discover what do I need? What
is the healing I need? And this is not selfish.
I know people will be like, oh, but you're a parent,
You're supposed to focus on your kids. That's selfish. It's
not selfish. Audrey Lord says it that caring for self
(20:24):
is survival. It's not selfish, right, So that we have
to take care of ourselves so that we can show
for our children. So I would say the first step
is to center thyself. And I know that sounds so
anti to what it means to be a parent, but
it is important for us to be well so that
we can actually offer our whole well selves to our children.
(20:46):
And that's what you know when you talked about that
coming home from work and being overwhelmed and exhausted, and
then your kids come to you and they want something
or need something. Sometimes you have to say, can I
just get my five to ten minutes to myself. That's
why so many parents sit in their car when they
pull up at home and they just sit in the
car for a little bit. It's like getting that time
to breathe, to relax, to listen to that song, your
(21:08):
favorite song, to pick me up song, or whatever you
need to do to take care of yourself so that
you can show up whole and well to our children. Yeah,
that would be my first thing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What I'm hearing is like a carving out of space,
and it's modeling that. And I think that that's also
when we talk about black and brown youth. They're often
not given the opportunity to carve out that space for themselves,
whether it's within their own families where they have, you know,
additional responsibilities and duties that are put on them, or
it's within school where they're hyper policed and told to
(21:41):
be quiet and sit down and you know, not really
given that space to explore. But seeing that modeled within
their parents and how they are showing up in the
family and for the family, just carving out personal self
care space. That's you know, that's powerful. Yeah, I appreciate
(22:01):
you saying that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, And it teaches them like when you carve out
the space for yourself, it does models that for them
so that they can now have access to that as well.
But also it teaches them boundaries. Right. We think about
you know, the topic of your podcasting about like bodily
autonomy and boundaries that if we don't model for them,
like when our kids come to us and want to
just like hug on us and climb on us or
(22:23):
those things like that this is our body right as parents,
and we could also have bodily autonomy and say you
know this, I don't really want to be touched right now,
or I'm overstimulated or whatever it may be. Right, it
models for our children that, oh, if you don't feel
comfortable with how someone is touching your body or interacting
with your body, that you have rights and voice and
you can say like, oh I don't like how that feels,
(22:45):
or no, you can't do that. But we have to
be able to model that too with our children and
also allow our children to model that with us. Yeah,
like our children being able to tell us like, oh, no,
I don't like the way that feels like, oh, don't
tickle me that way or whatever, or even our children
say like, Mom, I need some space, I need some
a long time. Like my kid tells me he wants
me to go upstairs because he can have downstairs to himself,
(23:07):
and I'd be like, oh, not, you just kicked me
out the living room, but okay, you could have it,
you know. But it's like, I want him to practice
being able to do that with me in the safety
of our home, so that if he's in other spaces
he can practice that, you know, when he's with his
friends or with his teammates, he has the experience of saying, no,
(23:30):
I don't like that, or I need this. Yeah, it's
like a self advocacy skill that we can model for them,
that about boundary setting and bodily autonomy that feels necessary
and important for their own well being and safety.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Absolutely, I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was
one of the questions that I had for you around.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
In the black community.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I see this specifically because I am a black woman
and that's the experience that I had in my childhood.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But there is.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
This this of you know, respecting elders and respecting authority,
and you know it is hug your grandparents when you
walk in the room, hug your aunt, tea, hank your uncle,
and make sure everybody feels respected in that way. But
it is kind of an entitlement to our bodies that
we're learning as a result of that entitlement that they
(24:19):
have to our bodies where we aren't necessarily in control
of that, and we can't say no because it's seen
as disrespectful. And you beautifully worded it, but I'm wondering
if you have any other thoughts around those other ways
that we teach consent and we teach boundaries and safety
in ways that don't perpetuate fear or shame, or that
(24:42):
just reinforce that this is okay to do and in fact,
this is probably the best thing for you to do
for yourself as a child or as a young person.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I man, I know exactly what you mean. I
grew up in a black family, black church. You know,
you hug your elders, you speak. It's interesting because there
is more conversation about bodily autonomy and agency and like
it's okay for a child to say no. And I've
had to deal with that myself where someone not necessarily
with my child, but I just had to intervene in
(25:13):
a family or community space where people were saying, oh,
like this person their children are is, their children are disrespectful,
their children are rude, And I'm like, why what if
they do And because they didn't speak or they didn't
like acknowledge or hug everybody, all the adults when they
came in the room, and I it was just like,
what makes you think that you have the right to
(25:35):
demand a physical touch of this child? Like what if
it makes them uncomfortable? What if they don't feel safe?
Like you don't know what's going on for that child.
Maybe they are overly stimulated by too many different people
touching them. You know, this goes all the way back. Listen,
this goes all the way back to when they're a baby.
Remember when you got to well, when I have my
infant and everybody's like, oh, let me hold the baby,
(25:57):
let me hold the baby, And it's like no, many
things to many jerseys. But also it's like that's the
first initiation into like everybody gets to touch this child
right into the baby's crying because they want to be
with their parent or whoever they're most familiar with, and
(26:18):
then if you do, pat if you don't, and then oh, well,
the baby's spoiled because the baby's crying out, Like it's
all this negative connotation around an infant. And so I think,
as parents who are juggling that what I've witnessed, even
in my own experience is as an adult, right, that
little girl inside of me may still feel like, oh,
(26:41):
I have to respect my elders, so I might not
feel empowered to tell this adult like, no, my child's
not going to hug you because they don't feel comfortable. Right.
And so again it's that same thing like we have
to do our healing work as parents so that we
can show up and support our children so that they
can their truth to power. So if we can't speak
(27:02):
to our elders and say, hey Grandma, hey pap, Paul, whoever,
you know, my kid's not really a hugger like that,
like they don't really prefer that. That's not that's not
their jam. They'll fish pump you, they might high five
you like whatever the thing is. And or even the
kissing like some kids are just like ill, don't kiss me,
don't pinch my feet.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Maybe affectionate in other ways physically, Yeah, that's their boundary.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not their thing. And so like being able to articulate
that boundary for your child, And if your child are
to tries to articulate the boundary and it's not respected
by adults, that then it is our responsibility as appearing
to intervene and make sure that they feel supported, because
it's too much pressure to put all of that on
a child to speak to that if we as the
adults have our own fears and own limitations around boundary setting.
(27:48):
So this is why we must practice it as adults
so that we can model for our children. And also
when our children are attempting to model it and may
feel and may be criticize in our community for being disrespectful,
that we as the adults can advocate on their behalf
and do it in a way that's loving. I know
that It's like, we don't want to disrespect our elders either,
and there's a way to honor and respect elders and
(28:09):
also hold boundaries and how can we be in boundary
relationship with our elders.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, I think that's such a cool way to particulate
what I've seen as a shift like a cultural shift
that's happening, of that being respected.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
And that being the norm.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Part of a friend group who has a podcast and
they talk all the time about different topics, a lot
of it related to the Black Church, and they consider
themselves former church girls. And I am the resident gen
Z even though I'm not actually gen Z, but I
like to say that I'm gen Z because I just
respect so much what gen Z is doing in terms of,
(28:52):
you know, pushing a lot of those boundaries exactly. And
I have I do have it recorded where I have
been adopted as an honoraryry gen Z for the record,
but I just I think that's something that I'm seeing
become very prominent. So I'm curious in your own parenting,
(29:17):
are there ways that your kids have taught you or
have encouraged your own healing in some of those capacities
of you've had to, you know, kind of rethink some
of your things in terms of what your kids are
like putting up in terms of their boundaries. I know
you mentioned, you know, getting kicked out of the living
room because because they need their.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Space, they need because there's no TV in their room
and I need, you know, I'm like Okay, you know
the parent. Yes, parenting has taught me so much. My
my my child sometimes says when it comes to some
of the parents of a liberation events or programs, he'll
be like, I'm kind of like the co founder is
non profit because it was because of her relationship, my
(30:01):
relationship to him that made me ask these questions. And
he definitely challenged me in beautiful ways. Not to say
all challenges don't have to be hard, but he challenged
me in beautiful ways to think about the way that
I communicate with him. As an example, I was more
likely in the past to elevate my voice when I
got frustrated. That was my like I would yell. I'd
(30:23):
be like, no, d d you know? And he would
he would ask me like, like why do you have
to yell? Like why can't you just say it regular,
you know? And so we had to come up with
all these things. I'm like, well, why do you do
things that frustrate me? Why do you do things that
you know? And so we would have these conversations and
I used to have all these rules and then he's like, well,
can we put rules on the list for you too?
(30:45):
So what kind of rules? And One of the rules
he wanted to have was when I'm getting frustrated, to
say it, to just name it, like let me know
you're getting frustrated before you you know, before I yell,
before I raise my boys. Just be like, I'm getting
a little frustrated right now, like I you know, just
like talk it through so that he could notice what
(31:07):
he was doing that was irritating or frustrating and if
he needed to modify things. But also sometimes it you know,
not even to always blame him. Sometimes I was frustrated
because I have limited capacity. There was not a lot
of mental space. I was overwhelmed, and I would take
it out. You know. He would be the you know
they said that the kids tap dance on your last nerve.
He would just be on the last nerve. But it's
not like he created all the other he didn't eliminate
(31:29):
all the previous names. Right, So so even that like
being able to be in conversation about it, about my
frustration levels and me yelling, and then he's like, well
what could he was, well, what could you do it?
Before you get to the yelling part he wanted to
know was there's something else, is like can you count
to ten or something like.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Let's work their way backwards.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Mom, He's like, what are the you know, he was
pushing me to be like, well, what are alternative practices
I could do? Like counting to ten is like taking
a deep breath, right, what of the wellness practices I
need to do? And you know, I grew up in
a household where my parents did yell like that was
and she yelled so much that I just thought like,
that's just how she talks. She's just very loud or something,
(32:10):
and so there was a way that I just didn't
engage with it as much, and I didn't want to
have that type of relationship with my kids. So he
definitely pushed me to stop yelling. He wouldn't say that
I completely stopped. I still sometimes do it and he'll
call me in with love. But I think the real
difference in this is that yet, like you said, the
new millennials, gen Z, I think there's alpha now in
(32:32):
beta now, we are more likely to be in conversation
with our parents and children in ways that adults didn't
really talk to kids in the same way, like let's
talk about how you're feeling. I mean, there's just been
a lot of evolution in the in this current generation
around talking about things, naming them, like pealing back the curtain,
(32:59):
you know, the truths, talking about the taboo things, whether
it be like we need mental health resources, we need therapy,
we you know, like there's just a radical vulnerability that
I commend and appreciate because you know, we were raised
by folks from the different generations, whether it be the
Boomers or the silent generation, and I would call this
(33:21):
current generation the like out loud generation, like no more silence,
let's talk about it one percent.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And I think that kind of takes me to something
else that I wanted to talk with you about.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You have spoken about this need.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
For vulnerability, right, and that that ties in so much
for vulnerability between parents and children. So parents rejecting that
notion that they have to be tough, rejecting the notion
that they have to know everything, that they always have
to be strong, that they always have to have the
right answer, and that may be complicated by a into
(34:00):
having this additional identity or having had this experience of
being a sexual assault or a sexual violence survivor. Right,
that can really complicate and change the direction of what
that looks like for someone so I'm curious just in general,
when we're talking about all of these things that we
(34:20):
have to kind of unlearn or relearn or reorient ourselves
or what would you say, I guess to survivors who
are raising children while they're actively navigating their healing in
that space. And it could be healing, like I said,
from sexual violence, but it could be healing from just
the trauma of whatever it is that has shown up
(34:42):
in their lived experience.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah. Yeah, And many of us are survivors of different
forms of abuse or violence, particularly as black parents, and
but just the rates of violence that we experience, whether
it be intimate partner violence, sexual violence, child sexual abuse,
the way violence Rouers has had in our community is
very disruptive. And so what I would say to survivors,
(35:08):
like including myself, I had to learn one to do
my own healing work and not think that it's one
and done, like it's an ongoing Like you said, healing
is a journey, it's a process. So whatther that be
therapy talk, therapy group programs. Yeah, I've done a variety
of things to just kind of like let's talk about
it and in that process, right, I've also learned in
(35:32):
my parenting that I was parenting from fear right, fear
that something similar could happen to my child, right. And
so in that fear based parenting, I realized that I
was projecting to protect, right, So I would project what
happened to me or what could happen to my child, right,
(35:52):
And so instead of allowing my child to have experience things,
I would be like, oh, no, you can't do that.
You can't go here, you can't go anywhere, you can't
spend at people's I is. You know, it was like
I was overly projecting my experience onto my child and
also limiting him, thinking that that was protection. But it
wasn't right because when I shut down talking about those things,
(36:15):
if I shut down his ability to experience, you know,
different people or different spaces, then it limits his ability
to then be able to name if something is happening,
or to be able to speak to his experience. And
so I had to shift from that protection type of
parenting because it was limiting him and it wasn't actually
providing any protection. And so instead I was more likely
(36:37):
to like, let's talk about the things in ways that
were to me protection was about prevention, instead of like
limiting him. I'm like, how do we prevent this, right,
So talking to him in age appropriate ways about his body,
his body parts, age appropriate ways. If we got there,
(36:57):
we got to sex a little too early, and I
was not fair to talk about seconds, but just talking
about like his body, right, and not in a way
that like, you know, people could hurt your body, but
really talk about his body as a way like this
is a sacred this is you are a sacred being.
You're beautiful. Here your parts and give me telling them
the actual names of the parts, like you have a venus,
(37:17):
you have testicles, girls have a vagina. And people thought like, well,
why was I explaining that to a kid who was
like three, I'm like, because he just needs to know
his body, right, and so like just being able to
talk about the body in ways that are positive because
some of my experiences in childhood with the body were
(37:39):
negative because of my trauma. And I didn't want him
to have a negative relationship with his body. I didn't
want him to have ideas that like this was secret
or you know, like it was something to be hidden.
I mean, there are parts of your body that are
supposed to be private, obviously, but I wanted us to
have this like very open conversation. We're just gonna sit
(38:00):
here and talk about sex, penus, vaginas, and it's not inappropriate,
it's not taboo, it's not risque, because I believe if
you could talk about it in ways that are like
I said, positive and empowering, that it gives my child.
It gave my child, It gives my child agency over
his body, and that's what we really want.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Absolutely, that's those lifetime tools, right, Like those are things
that when a child recognizes that about themselves, that my
body is sacred. This is the functionality of my body,
This is the reproductive system and what that means in
age appropriate context as you said, but like this, this
is what my body, this is what my body is,
this is what this person's body is. It's just there
(38:45):
is a like an innate need to know and understand
those functions and understand it as sacred. So that is
something that someone can carry throughout the rest of their
development and have that mindset pour it into them where
they then see themselves as sacred beings and sacred bodies
and you know, just the positive impact that could come
from that throughout someone's life trajectory is just so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
It's a gift that you.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Were able to give your son, And thank you for
sharing that, because I think we do often hear the
more taboo perspective around our bodies, especially for children. People
are like, oh, I don't want to you know, saying
penis and vagina and volva is a bit too much
for kids. And it's like, but why because they're seeing
it and they have to use it, and you know,
(39:31):
there's ways that they need to understand themselves that is
develop mentally appropriate, that can just carry forward and really
and evolve, And that gift that you're giving them of
seeing themselves as beautiful as they are, you know, is
really powerful. Yeah, And there was something else that I
wanted to come back to that I think would be
(39:51):
helpful for people because I feel like this is a
very real experience getting to the sex conversation before you
were mentally ready as a par and that can happen
in a number of instances, right, with a number of
different topics, not just necessarily sex. So like, if you
don't mind, are you comfortable talking about.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
What that looks like?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (40:17):
It was not accident, but have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And I think that's the other thing. It was an
accidental mess and also like it's not a one and
done conversation. Yeah, is what I recently learned. I recently learned.
I'm like, I thought we talked about this. Oh my gosh,
we gotta do this again and again and again. So
it's a messy, a beautiful mess of a conversation. And
I think what you said earlier is like this generation
(40:40):
is okay with not being right and saying I don't
really know and I'm not an expert, I mean not
being sex an expert, right, So I remember I feel
like my kid was like maybe in third grade, and
I was talking, this is the problem because I'm so theoretical.
I was talking about racism and sexism, right, That's what
(41:00):
I was really talking about.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
The third grade sex conversation or.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
This was.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay because I was saying the word sexism got you.
He was like, mom, why do you keep saying that word?
And I'm like, well, word racism, sexism, like which one.
He's like, you know, sex And I'm like, oh, what
do you know about Like what what do you know
(41:29):
about it? And then he's like I know about it
and I'm like, oh, tell me what you know, right,
And he was just like his little third grade friend
or something had told him that sex was Like what
did he say? Sex was a mom and a dad
getting in the bed with only with their underwear on
or something like that. And I'm like, and then what
do they do? And then he's like and then they kiss?
(41:50):
And I'm like anything else and he's like no. And
I was like, Okay, We'll just let you believe that
that's what sex is for now because that is the
third grade age appropriate one. But over time, like we
have to continue to like talk about sex. Even though
I feel like that's I'm so open to be like,
let's talk about it. My kid is more like, Mom,
let's just not talk about it. So because I would
(42:12):
like explain it probably in too much detail, which I
do because I'm like, you need to know all the things,
especially also in this time of like gender expansiveness around
the expanses of sexual orientations. So even when he was like, oh,
it's a mom and a dad, and I was like,
you know, some families don't have a mom and a dad.
Some people have two dads or two moms, or they
might have folks who are non binary, so you know,
(42:33):
like it doesn't always have to be a mom and
a dad in the bed, right, So just like being
able to have those conversations freely, that was the messy
one because then I was like trying to explain sex,
but he was talking. I was talking about sexism and
something about you know, gender equity, and here we go
talking about sex. And I was just like, I'm gonna
(42:55):
let you kese the third grade version that your friend
told you, and then we'll come back to it. But
it's definitely that I should have got to come back
to because even if you explained it, and you explained
all the things, and I had all the books, I
had sex as a fuddy words, the book that I
had like just bought him and left in his room.
It was like, careuse it at your own at your
own leisure, and then we'll talk about it. Just like
(43:15):
creating multiple avenues. I've had him look up videos like
there's like different sex ed kind of like YouTube channels
that are like videos that explain like the reproductive system,
explain how to make a baby, explain that this act
that is fun and may feel good could lead to
children or other things. So like how to talk about
(43:36):
like what what is all involved? I had to get
you know, I'm his parents, so I'm also just not
the coolest person to talk to. So I had to
go reach out to the aunties. That's why it's important
to have the other mothers. And I have friends who
are like youth program, you know, workers who still do
youth program. And I'm like, I need you to talk
to my son about sex because he's uncomfortable talking to
(43:56):
me about it. And so I do know, I have
to tag people in because maybe we aren't the right person.
And are there other trusted adults in your child's life
that you feel like, well, I trust them. Maybe you
talk to that adult to make sure you have shared
values about the conversation and then tell them, like, you know,
you give them permission to talk to your kid about
sex in ways that are empowering, that are body positive,
(44:19):
and that are about to me. I'm always like mindful
of consent, Like I want to make sure that my
child understands consent in terms of receiving consent from other
people if he's going to engage in any physical activity,
but also making sure that he knows that he also
has the right to like give consent and not give consent.
I think at a time, because I was raising a boy,
I was so focused on him making sure he got
(44:41):
consent that I realized I was not giving him this
tools to ensure that he wanted to consent and often
to things that maybe someone was inviting him into. So
that's also that's a word element. He was definitely a learning.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, especially as you know, raising a black boy, you're
so focused on on you know what the sort of
dominant sociocultural narratives are around black boyhood and sex and
black men and sex, and young black men specifically in sex,
and you want to make sure that they are protected,
(45:16):
but there's there's so much, as you mentioned, that gets
lost on their end. It's important for them to understand
that they also have the right to give consent and
they also, you know, have bodily autonomy and they can
make choice and black boys and young black men and
black men in general can also be victims and survivors
(45:38):
of sexual violence and they're not always on the perpetrator side.
So yeah, that's such an important thing to say, and
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, and there was a learning I had to learn
after not doing it, not explaining that to him, and
I was so much so focused. You know, I'm raising
a black boy. I live in a predominantly white neighborhood.
So I'm like, put your potential partners in this area, right,
could potentially be people who who have different values. I'll
(46:13):
just say that, who have a different perspective. And I
know some of the dominant narratives about, like you said,
black boys and the way that people over sexualize or
hyper sexualized black children period, whether it be boys or girls,
and that I want to make sure that he was safe.
So again I was utilizing that protection method and forgot
to honor him to be like, oh, and you also
(46:35):
have rights to say I'm not interested or no, thank you,
or to turn people down and don't feel required to
just say yes, you know. So, yeah, I don't get
it right every time. That's why you got to do
it more than one time.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, And talking about utilizing the village, right, I think
that's why it's so important for us to keep that
concept in mind of we may not be the right
conveyors of the message. That message needs to come from somewhere.
So what does one's village look like of people who
can who you can tap for that particular conversation where
(47:09):
the message may come in more clearly than it does
from you as the messenger, or you know, whatever the
case may be in that dynamic. And so this kind
of takes me to one of my last questions this
show is about. You know, we're taking it from like
an afrofuturism perspective. We really want to look at what
does it truly look like to be post sexual violence,
(47:32):
post rape culture, all of those things, and to center
our experiences when it comes to healing and what does
it look like to be healed as black women, black fem's,
black gender expanse of folks, like what does it look
like for us to be in this community where we
are healed? And so you've spoken about and I don't
want to prompt you too much because I do want
(47:53):
to hear what kind of comes out for you. But
you've talked about the beloved community and what that looks
like for you, and it's this vision of what's possible
and all the systems of oppression are eliminated and we
do the work together, which is just fire emojis all
over the place.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
But I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
It was an older interview that you did, and I
was just like, that is just such a we're working
towards something, right, Just like with I was talking about
like the actual name of your organization, Parenting for Liberation.
It's an action, it's an action word. It's working towards
liberation on both ends. I think it's the beloved community
(48:34):
is working towards that community. We're working towards what it
looks like to be oppression free in our society. So
I'm wondering if you could imagine a liberated future we're
no black girl, no black fem, no black person experiences
sexual violence. Again, what would that world look like for you?
(48:56):
In what role do you see parenting playing part of that?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
When you said, like a world where there's no like violence,
like sexual violence or any of that harm, I was like, Oh,
I think it's a world where black women, girls, fem,
non binary treads. All the people could possibly like sleep
with our doors unlocked, you know, like not have to
(49:22):
worry about potential harm or threats or violence. Right. There's
a way that.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
We often as folks who have experienced violence or who
live in bodies that experience violence, that we always have
this thing running a track running in our heads, like
just getting our environments.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Looking over our back when we walk to our car,
we look in the back seat. When we walk to
our car, we have our cues. Like all those things
that we do to try to keep ourselves safe, we
wouldn't have to do that. So I feel like our
minds would be a little lighter, the like mental load
of trying to keep ourselves safe would be able to
(50:03):
be used to, Like I could be walking to my
car and dreaming and thinking of all these new possibilities
instead of thinking about okay, am I safe? Who's on
the corner? You know, Like it would I would have
so much. I feel like there would be like this
mental load release and like it could be filled with
so many things like joy and pleasure and play and
(50:24):
dreams and imagination. So I think that that in and
of itself is like whow, Like little black kids could
just be free to play and not be looking over
their shoulders or not be worried. Also that means that
we could trust people, right, like people that you might
(50:46):
be more likely to be like cautious or worried about.
Like actually we could trust each other. We could trust
that our children are safe. We could trust that our
children are taken care of, right, we could trust that
the village is actually a village of love and care
and support, not a village of harm or violence. Our
children could have more voice, more agency, more power because
they would believe in themselves, they have a whole sense
(51:07):
of worth. They'd feel free in their bodies. So it
just I could imagine more dancing or playing, more jump
rope in more just yeah. Like, even as I think
about it, I'm like, ah, I.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Just want to be free right now. I see it.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
I see the like physical response to that. Right, It's
like it's a lot of shoulder action, just light.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah, we can released all of it. I'm like, oh,
as you said it, I was just like, take it off.
Take all that, you know, extra like thing that we carry,
like that light and that load. And how could parenting
get us there? Hmm? I think hmm. I think that
if we cultivate freedom for ourselves, right, if we release
(51:54):
as the parents, we release all these preconceived notions about
what it means to be a black girl, black boy, right,
because some of that societal expectation and burden is also
what I like, let go of right, Like if I'm
not worried about my children in that way I'm not
worried about violence, then also I could have more release
(52:14):
as a parent to then be in a playful, more fun,
more interactive and engaging relationship with my child. Like now
me and my child can be friends, you know how,
like in the black cultures, like I'm not one of
your little friends. Like maybe we actually could be friends
with our children, and they'd actually want to still be
in relationship with us when they became adults. We should
wonder why when black children, well children generally, but when
(52:37):
they become adults, when they go no contact with their parents,
sometimes it's like, well, what was that relationship like with
you at home? And so I think that releasing that
burden of fear of violence or violence or perpetration allows
us to be more liberated and free in our expression
of love and care for our children. That would make
(52:58):
the relationship one of love, enjoy and reciprocity. So yeah,
sign me up. Where's my ticket? Yeah, where's my ticket
to this new world?
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Well, we're working.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
All of this is the work to get there, right,
all of the yes, like this conversation here, this is
the work to get us there, and so I so
appreciate you. I appreciate those words that you have spoken
into us as the listeners, and you know, I just
I receive it, and I know there's going to be
such a positive and beautiful response to what you've shared
(53:32):
with us of yourself and your family dynamics and you know,
just all of this that you've you know, built up
in your work over the years. And so I just
appreciate your time so much, and I'm grateful for you
and grateful for this conversation because it was really you
dropped some gems, and your podcast drops gems constantly. So
make sure you listen to Parenting for Liberation, make sure
(53:55):
you check out all of the work or any like
shout outs that you want to give for how people
can find you. You know, if people want to support
and learn more about your work anywhere, you want to
direct them specifically, and we'll make sure it's all in
the show notes as well.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yes, absolutely so. We have a website parentsofilibraation dot org.
We have Instagram Parent of Liberation, we have Facebook Parents
of Liberation, and we have a YouTube channel, Parent of Deliberation.
Everything's Parential Liberation and if you want to buy the
book Parents of Liberation, a guy for Raising Black Children,
that's available at Feminist Press. You could also request it
(54:31):
at one of your local black owned bookstores if you can,
and if you know you need in another way, it's
always available on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
And like you said, your organization does work nationwide, so
we'll make sure people know where and how they can
reach out to you for some of your programming and
to learn more information if they're looking to bring you
to where they are.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, if you have any if you have any inquiries
for Parent Lilboration, you could always email info at Parentsofiliberation
dot org.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Thank you to I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Thank you. I appreciate you as well.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Trina and I had an amazing conversation, But what really
stuck out to me as the ritual from our time
together was the importance of self care, not just for survivors,
but for those doing the sacred work of healing alongside us.
Because self care can be hard to sell. To figure
out how to fit into your life and that's okay,
(55:29):
it's not always going to be perfect, and that's why
we do this in community. First, I want to lift
up a powerful survivor resource from Me to International's Healing Toolkit,
It's all about triggers. You've probably heard the term used
a ton lately on social media and TV shows and
(55:49):
in movies. It's everywhere, but what does it actually mean.
The toolkit defines a trigger as a trauma reminder. It
could be a place, sound to smell, a conversation, or
anything that really activates our nervous system and kick starts
that survival response. They describe it as a surprise emotion.
(56:10):
You might feel it coming out of nowhere, but your
body remember something your brain may not have the words
for yet. So when we're triggered, we have to find
ways to remind ourselves that I am safe, right here.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And right now.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
So the link in the show notes offer some really
helpful ideas on how to regulate or cope after a trigger.
It's a reminder that you don't have to just push through.
You get to pause, you get to breathe, and you
get to care for yourself. So that's another tool for
your healing to look get now. If you are in
(56:45):
the sacred position of being seen as a safe space
for someone who discloses or shares their story with you,
listen closely when I tell you this part. You are
not alone either. Holding space for someone's pain can activate
your own wounds, especially if you've experienced something similar or
never had the space to process your own story.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
That's real.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
There are a couple of links in the show notes
for you. Here's a short version. Boundaries are not barriers,
they are safety nets. Understand them, maintain them. And as
Trina said during our conversation, it's an honor to be
trusted with someone's truth, but you can't pour from an
empty cup. She gave us that great metaphor of when
(57:28):
you're on a plane and you have to put your
own mask on before you can put someone else's on.
You have to take care of yourself in order to
be in a position to take care of others. And
so another part of our conversation that I've been sitting
with is the unique survivor experience of childhood sexual abuse
and how it shapes the journey into parenthood. How do
(57:51):
you care for a child while still learning how to
care for the child inside yourself. That's where organizations like
Cactus Simple come in. Trina spoke with the founder, Ebene
Williams on her podcast earlier this year. Definitely check that out.
I included the link in the show notes. And Ebony
created Cactus and Bloom after realizing how many questions she
(58:14):
had in her own healing journey, and she had nowhere
to go. There were no guides, She had to just
find her way. And this is how Ebene describes her
reasoning for creating Cactus and Bloom.
Speaker 3 (58:28):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
While thinking about the points at which sexual abuse carries
forward to the next generation, and as many survivors of
child sexual abuse experience being haunted by how to have
the cycle end with them, it was clear to Ebony
that even in her own journey, the questions she had
didn't have anywhere to go, there was no one to ask.
(58:53):
Many of the circumstances that can recreate cycles didn't have
a disruptor end quote, and so Ebone goes on to
name some of those disruptors. She describes him as including
financial insecurity, retraumatization associated with pregnancy and birth, a lack
(59:13):
of support requiring difficult decisions being made during that time,
and so many more that creates the circumstances for abuse
to continue within those cycles and dynamics. And then she
builds something to address them. So, after finding her niche
and leaning into the gap that she saw in child
(59:35):
sexual abuse survivor supports, Cactus and Bloom rolled out its
new course on perinatal and infant care that sent hers
child sexual abuse and sexual violence survivors who are black
in Lgbtqia plus.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
So let Ebene's.
Speaker 1 (59:51):
Commitment to showing up for her community and building space
that she needed as part of her self care practice
be a reminder for all of us to do what
I always tell us to do, and that's take care
of yourself, take care of one another, and release whatever
shame or guilt you may be feeling about the harm
that's been done to you. You're not alone, So as
(01:00:19):
you sit with that, and as we come to the
end of this episode, I'd really love to hear from
you all what's resonating with you. What are the rituals
of self care that you're building in your life right now?
Tag us at the Unwanted Sorority on all socials to
share what's been keeping you feeling grounded, safe and whole,
and you can also slide into the DMS. I'm really
(01:00:41):
excited to hear what's working for you all and share
that with our listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Next week, I'm going to be doing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Something I have never done before, and that's talking to
my parents about this experience. So, kind of building off
of Trina's parenting theme, you'll hear firsthand from my parents
about what it was like for them to hear me
disclose about my assault for the first time. The conversation
is raw, it's honest, and it's the kind of conversation
(01:01:08):
that too many families never get to have. You don't
want to miss it. So if you haven't already, make
sure you're subscribed to The Unwanted Sorority on your favorite
podcast platform. And if this episode spoke to you, rate it,
review it, share it so we can reach someone else
who might need to hear it. Until next time, stay safe,
stay connected, and remember this is a safe space, not
(01:01:30):
a quiet space. I'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
The Unwanted Sorority is hosted in executive produced by me
Leander Tate. Our executive producer is Joel Money, our producer
is Carmen Lorenz, and original cover art is created by
Savannah Muler. I would also like to be of special
thanks to the I Heard Podcast Next Up program for
helping bring the show to life. Also, all of the
guests who have taken a step in sharing their story
with you all on these episodes. And finally, to all
(01:02:02):
the members of the sorority who will never tell their story.
We see you and your story matters.
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