March 7, 2025 • 27 mins
Dealing with a narcissistic family member can be emotionally exhausting. The Gray Rock Method is a powerful strategy to help you disengage, protect your peace, and avoid being drawn into their manipulative tactics. In this video, we break down how to use the Gray Rock Method with narcissistic family members effectively and regain control over your emotional well-being.
What You’ll Learn:
- What is the Gray Rock Method?
- How to use it with narcissistic parents, siblings, or relatives
- Signs it’s working and common mistakes to avoid
- How to maintain boundaries and protect your mental health
Private FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thev2w
Melissa call link: https://thev2w.com/personalized-support/ 8-week Life Transformation Method: https://thev2w.com/life-transformatio...
Website: www.thev2w.com 12 Critical Steps to Take Before You Leave webinar: https://thev2w.com/webinars/
© @v2wvictimtowarrior All rights reserved. Any reproduction or republication of all or part of this audio is strictly prohibited.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Doing the Gray Rock. Basically, like John likes to say,
is you are being as dull as a rock on
the ground. Who in the world would argue with a
role right?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You remember? And that's a great point because if you
can remember that when they're going after you, when they're
trying to push your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you,
remember you can't argue with the rock. Welcome to the
Victim the Warrior.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Show Warrior Talk, and this is our second episode. We're
John and Melissa and we are survivors of narcissistic abuse
and our mission is to help other survivors reclaim and
rebuild their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
On this podcast, we're going to talk about gray Rock method.
What is the gray Rock method and when to use
it and when not to use it.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Now, the Gray Rock method is a coping mechanism.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It is not a.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Cure for the relationship to get better. It's not a
cure for the narcissist.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's not a fix.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's a way for you, as the victim to retain
your sanity during an abusive relationship. This is what you
would use in order to decide whether or not you
want to continue your life in this abusive relationship or
you want to plan a safe exit strategy to leave it.
(01:24):
It will not fix the relationship, and if your partner
is a narcissist, it will not change. It will only
get worse.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right. I know you always tell your clients this is
a short term tactic. It's not a long term fixed right.
So in your experience when you were in your narcissistic
abusive relationship, which was horrible, guys, if you knew the
whole story, when did you ever use the gray Rock
method in an advantage? Well really helped you.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
He would bait me. Okay, So you know what bating means.
It literally means trying to trip you up into a
situation when you're trying to remain composed, You're trying to
keep your emotions intact, and they just keep chipping away
at things they know are going to upset you.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well they buttons, they did absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh my god, they know how to pour salt in
your wounds big time.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So he would bait me on things, and I would
I would really really try to hold that temperant.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Sometimes it would get the best of me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But when I started understanding the gray Rock method, I
started basically ignoring what he was saying. I would answer
him with one word answers, a nod, maybe just a look,
a shrug. So when he kept on and on, I
would just say okay or no are I'm not going
(02:49):
to deal with this right now, and I would just
walk away. Now, they will continue to try to bait you,
so you have to remember in your mind what they're
trying to do. They are trying to get an emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Rush out of you. It's how they feed.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Their being because they can't really produce their own emotions,
they have to suck them out of you.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So you have to recognize what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And when you're doing the gray rock basically, like Jong
likes to say, is you are being as dull as
a rock on the ground. Who in the world would
argue with or right?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You remember? And that's a great point because if you
can remember that when they're going after you, when they're
trying to push your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you,
remember you can argue with the rock.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Think about if you had a rock and funny and
you're yelling at the rock, you're getting no response. So
try to envision that when you're using the gray Rock method,
you're just being a rock. You're just being very noncommittal,
non emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You're unresponsible and uninteresting too.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The whole thing about a narcissist is they want to
provoke you.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
They want that.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So if you become uninteresting to them and they're not
going to get that reaction out of you, they are
going to eventually give up. Now, I'm not saying that
they won't come back at you. That's why this is
just a very short term coping mechanism only justin you
can keep your sanity, you can start thinking clearly, and
you can make an educated decision as to whether or
(04:18):
not you're willing to live your life like this or
much much worse, or you're ready to plan how to
get out.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, let's talk about this. Well, let's talk about this
real quick. To see what the gray rock method looks
like in action, Melissa and I have put together a
series of videos. It's different examples of how to use
the gray rock in different different environments, and so you
can kind of see for yourself what it looks like
(04:45):
and maybe it'll give you some examples or some ideas
of how to use it yourself. So I'm gonna put
the link and below in the description. It's on our
TikTok channel. And when you get to our TikTok channel
right although our profile, you see play and you'll just
go through there and you'll see gray Rock Method series. Now,
this series of four videos has had over ten million
(05:08):
views just on TikTok, right, just on TikTok alone. So
it's extremely powerful what you're able to see from these
So please check out those three videos and you'll be like, wow, Oh,
I didn't know I could use it there, Or that's
a great idea, I'll try that.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Oh, that's exactly how he baits me. That's exactly how
she baits me.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, So I we really really hope that those examples
give you a better understanding of what the gray Rock
Method is. Okay, now, Melissa, you just talked about it's
a short term. It's a short term. Now we're going
to talk about when to use it and when not
to use it. But please know it's a short term.
It's not a long term fixed. Now we're going to
talk about something after we get through with gray Rock
(05:47):
where we want to help you if you decide you
want to leave, how do you do that, okay, so
just hold on for a few minutes. Let's get through
this gray rock, and then we're going to talk about
if you decide you want to leave, how do you
do that? So let's talk about when are the best
times to use gray rock and then when is it
not appropriate to use gray rock.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If your abuser is prone to violence, this may provoke them,
So we want to put that warning out there. Narcissists
can be violent, or they don't have to be violent,
but they're still very dangerous mentally, physically, emotionally, financially.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
So when you are using this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Coping mechanism for yourself to keep common side, to not
allow them to provoke provoke an emotional outburst from you,
that is when you use it. If they are prone
to violence, you are going to have to make that
judgment because if they are reactionary and they're violent, this
(06:47):
may not be a method that you want to use. Honestly,
that is a relationship you've got to get out of.
But you know, we'll cover that in future podcast. But
that's when not to use the gray rock and not
to use it as a long term method. I have
clients that have used the gray rock method for like
two years. Can you imagine being a rock in your
(07:10):
relationship for two years? That's not healthy. This is a
short term coping mechanism. The long term goal is to
get out. So John, you know, if you're still in it,
you do have.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Resources, right if you're still in it and you just
don't know what to do at this point, there's a
lot of anxiety with leaving an abusive relationship. I mean,
we've all been there. We understand exactly what that is.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
It's all of it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So what Melissa and I did is we put together
the same critical steps that we used and what we
coach our clients on on how to leave, and we
call it the twelve critical steps to take before you leave. Now,
we recorded an entire webinar to coach you through this
list because it's a significant list and there's a lot
of things that need to be done and so planning
(07:57):
right and I always say, look, think about the day
before you leave on vacation. You've got your list, you know,
bring the anxiety level down. You're like, look, i gotta
get my get my bags out of the basement, I've
got to pack my bags, I've got to get my
dry clean and put the dogs in the kennel. I
need to get my passport, I need to know what
time I need to leave for the airport, the whole thing.
So this is the exact same thing. It teaches you
(08:19):
exactly what you have to do, step by step before
you leave.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Before you say, but you're going to.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Leave, Yeah, you know. I'm so glad you brought that up.
That was my mistake, most of our mistakes, most of
Barbara Steak. What I did before I was ready is
I told my abuser that I think we need to
get a divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I'm going to go ahead and file for a divorce.
That was the worst thing because I wasn't prepared. I
didn't have everything in order, credit cards, my emergency fund,
I didn't have all the things credit frozen, all the
things that you need to do before you leave, before
you say you're going to leave. And then what guess
what happened. I came home from work one day and
(09:03):
my house was completely empty and it was.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Just credit cards to move everything.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It was just horrible to come home to it, you
completely vacant house. Now, that was my fault because I
told her what I was going to do he.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Gave He gave her his playbook, right, you never give
that to the enemy team.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And guess what else started when I mentioned that, I
mentioned she told everybody that I was physically abusing her,
which is horrible thing to go through for a man.
But what happens is then your support group distances and
sells from you, so you don't have people to talk
to her and confide in and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You're in an emotional tizzy, so you're not thinking clearly
in order to make that list of what you should
do for you leave.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
So it's just got some great great ideas on there,
like checking for tracking devices on your phone and your
car so that when you leave, you can leave safely.
But the really important thing about this list is that
it puts you in a good put place so that
when you do leave, you don't have to go back.
And that's what happens. Over fifty percent of the time
when people leave, they end up having to go back
(10:13):
because there weren't prepared, they didn't have their ducks in
a row, so that they have to go back, and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Then financially desperate to go back because they haven't done
the financial steps that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Are in the twelve critical right, So it gets really
desperate at that point because your abuser is even more
controlling and it's even harder to leave the next time.
So you want to make sure you're leaving, So check out.
I'm going to put the link below for the twelve
critical steps to take before you leave webinar. It's on
our website, the v twow dot com, and I'll put
that link below too. So let's get to a couple
of questions, because I love y'all's participation. Taint that we
(10:45):
got question from the last Yeah, we have questions, So
I want to go through a couple of questions. And
I know the questions that I selected from all the
ones that we received are going to be a benefit
to all of you. So you know, please don't don't
sign off right now. No, listen to these because I
think they're gonna be a benefit forever, no matter where
you are in your journey, whether you're still in the
(11:05):
relationship and you're still in the abusive relationship, whether you're
trying to get out. You know, you're co parenting all
those horrible things that you have to go through when
you're in that war. And then if you're in recovery
from the abuse and just don't know what to do
and don't then, and this is going to help you
get on stuck. So I've got three questions here and
they're both very pertinent to no matter where you are
(11:26):
in here.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So let's just talk questions.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, okay? Oh did I say? Okay? All right?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I just love him okay?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And I love you too, baby, sometimes more than others.
So how do I not beat myself up for not
being farther along in regaining my life back? Now? This
person has left her abusive relationships, She's already been through
the divorce. She's been a client of ours for a
long long time. Yeah, we love her. She is really
(11:58):
despondent because she can't move forward now. She's recently become
one of our clients in our eight week life transformation
or method, and things are changing for her. She has
daily action steps. So that's the important thing for you
if you're in recovery and you're stuck, is you don't
have daily action steps that you're taking.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To change the way your brain thinks. Because when you've
planned to leave, you've left. It is an emotional rollercoaster.
But the only thing your brain knows is the abuse
it suffered, so you keep reliving it, reliving the shame,
the guilt, the fear, the heartbreak, all of these things
are just bouncing around in your head because your brain
(12:40):
doesn't know how to break free from what it's been
doing the fight or flight for lord knows how long.
So the steps that we talk about starting small, and
I'm gonna let John talk about how to start your
morning because you're in control of at least thirty minutes
to one hour of your day.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, let's talk about this a little bit because I
I just I had a lot of regrets. I had
a ton of regret because I felt, like, you know,
I was like, look, I'm a pretty smart guy. How
did I allow myself to be so manipulated? And it
took me several years to really to recover from the regrets.
And let me tell you, Mossa and I were talking
(13:20):
about as we're preparing for this podcast. We started laughing
because one of the red flags that I ignored, and
there were a lot of them, this was this red
flag was so big. It was like if you ever
been to one of those RV sales places and they
have these massive American flags. Yeah, that was this red
flag and I totally ignored it through. So if you've
(13:44):
ignored red flags, please join the club, because we all have.
We all did all right. This red flag was I
was asked to go to couples counseling. Okay, the red
flag is we weren't married yet. If you have to
go to couples absolutely before you're even married, that's a
massive red flag. And I charged right through it. And
(14:05):
I regret that to this day. So if you're struggling
with the with recovering we.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Have because of regret, shame, and all these.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Things, that's so understandable. The one of the things that
really helped me get through that was getting into support group.
That was massive, because your friends and family they just
don't understand what you're going through because they have not
been there, and they get tired. Even a lot of
therapists they don't get it. They think they haven't lived
(14:36):
through it. You know, they want to talk about your
childhood or you know, how are your parents or whatever.
They don't understand what it was like going through an
abusive relationship. A lot of them don't like So that's
why you know, we love our eight week life Transformational method.
It's it's an eight week course you're going to recover?
Is it going to take years? Or can we get
it down to a couple of months? And that's what
(14:56):
we want to do for you. Also, Melissa is so
amazing uh as a coach and and can help you
get through this quicker too. Well, we both are, but
Melissa's phenomenal. I just I love hearing her testimonials from
her clients. She does such a great job. We're gonna
put her link down below too if you need help
with that. But let's get to this next question, because Babe,
(15:16):
I think that was what we're talking about with the
first hour. Okay, So how do I get consistent, get
better at not letting myself be sidetracked and make myself
a priority? How are you and John able to do that? Well?
We still do this to this day. Okay. It's about
owning the first hour of your day. If you can
(15:38):
own the first hour of your day, it's yours, it's
not anybody else's. If you have to get up a
little bit earlier so that you have that one hour
of quiet and peace, let's talk about that first hour
that's going to change your day. I call this stacking wins. Okay,
and that first hour, don't hit that s news button
and lay in bed and hit this news and hit
(15:59):
this news. It's so bad. But a lot of times
when we're depressed and we just don't want to face
the day, we do that. So we've already got an
l for the day, which is a loss. We don't
want to do that. Get out of bed. First thing,
drink a big old glass of water, and now we're
gonna put.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It for any other bedrooms before.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Coffee or anything like that. Like that, And also another thing,
don't lay in bed and scroll through social media or
looking down email. Get out of bed, turn your phone
upside down, and go get a bunch of water. Because
your body is dehydrated from the night before a full
night to sleep. Your body's hootter. So you want to
drink twenty four ounces of water. Now we're gonna we're
gonna recommend a couple of things that you can add
(16:40):
to your water to make water to make it taste
a little bit better. But it's called a hydration multiplier,
which makes you so you don't have to drink quite
as much water to get the same benefits. It right,
So we'll put a link to that below as well.
But and then you go into meditation a quiet place
room where you can just be yourself and mend it
(17:00):
take for five to ten minutes. It's a great way
to strike the day.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And you could use any type of meditation. People think meditation.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Is just a who you just have to sit there, right,
It's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It can be positive affirmations. It could be prayer, it
could be calming music. Meditation is all about gaining control
of your mind and your wondering thoughts.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Because our thoughts go all over the place. So when
John's talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Turning that phone upside down and not scroll it, I
mean nothing up. Don't even look at your phone because
you will immediately become distracted with all the noise and
nonsense that's going on on the internet.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
That's what it's for. It's to get you distracted.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So not being distracted is huge, and that meditation is
your way of owning your mind, basically keeping your mind
basically in your control, whether you have to say launchra's
over and over again, so it is not wandering. When
it wanders, there's ways to bring it right back to
(18:04):
the present moment.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right, and there's some great meditation guided meditation right here
on YouTube. Oh yes, and so, and then we want
to go into prayer if you're religious. If you're not,
let's go into some gratitude, just being thankful and affirmations
for the day before, what happened, Grateful for your home
or your family, or your health, or breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Being able to do the meditative right right.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So those are those are huge things. So we're going
right into that, and then we're going to go into journaling.
Now we coach all these things in our eight week
life transformation. If you don't know how to do these things,
we're going to hold your hand through that. So don't
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Daily intentional steps that we mean holding hands. We don't
mean oh, here's the program, just go do it. It
is daily actionable steps, intentional steps. That's how you change
the way your mind, body and soul connect.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So think about that first hour. You've just stacked four
winds in a row, you got right out of bed
and got that water, you went into meditation, you went
into prayer or affirmations, and then you went into journaling.
I know it sounds like a lot if it's not
part of your routine and it's not a habit yet,
but just try to start stacking wins in that first
hour and it will change your entire day, It'll change
your entire outlook. Now let's get to one more question.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh, let me just finish this on journaling, because so
many people think journaling is you've got to sit there
and just try to write your thoughts out and stuff.
So our client right here what I asked her to
do because she was struggling. She was struggling, and our
program does have journaling prompts and things like that, and
it just takes time.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Just like meditation.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I told her to start writing out her dream destination vacation?
Where is it?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Day one?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Where is this dream destination vacation that you've never been
able to take with the abusive partner? And it's some
place that you.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Would absolutely just love to go.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That is your first journal write it down data, Yes,
to write about when you're gonna go and what what
are you going to see that first day? These are
things that your brain is now looking at, going, wow,
that's an amazing vision for me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Day two?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes, what are we gonna eat? Are you going to
be on a tour where are you gonna go? Those
are the things your brain is going to start looking
forward to what you are telling it about your dream
vacation and do that just for seven days. By the
end of seven days, you have your entire vacation planned
out and it is one of your goals that you
will absolutely achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's hugely powerful. Yeah, wow, And.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's positive because a lot of people think journaling is
just negative.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You do need to purge stuff, but.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Sometimes it just when you're trying to gain control of
your mind, body, and soul. It's difficult to write a
bunch of negative things out. You do need to purge
those things, but taking something positive to motivate yourself, to
motivate your brain is hugely powerful. So that's something you
can try if you haven't journaled before and you're kind
(21:07):
of struggling with it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right, Okay, let's get to this last question real quick.
How do I reclaim my health back? You know, abuse
causes so many negatives and mental side effects, so let's
let's get to this. I think this is so important
if you're still in it, if you're trying to get out,
or if you're out, you've suffered your health and so
(21:29):
let's talk about that. What recommendations do you have for
short term and long term? Okay, I love this question
because I am a fitness and nutrition fanatic. I love
talking to people about.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I have to lay out the one laying in
the bed doing Yeah, I just you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
If you're prioritizing that first hour and your and you're
really important, you got to get eight hours of sleep. Yet,
if you're struggling trying to get those eight hours of
sleep every night, and so there's so many things that
we talk about in our A with Life Transformation method
about sleeping. But real quickly for this podcast, let's talk
about that. You got to get to sleep early every night.
It's got to be a dark room, it's got to
(22:09):
be quiet. But if you're struggling with sleep still, you
still have thoughts you can't get past. You might need
a little bit of help sleeping. And that's okay most humans,
do you know, We just have a lot. Yeah. And
so what Melissa and I do and recommend it's not pharmaceuticals.
We do not want to talk about pharmaceuticals getting addicted
to sleep aids. That is not.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
We love a healthy sleep aid and I take this.
We both take this every night from Healthy Cell. It's
called r EM Sleep.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
And it's liquid.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, it's liquid. Just drink it half hour before bedtime.
And it's got nutrients in there and things that will
help you sleep quick, go to sleep quicker, and then
go into a deeper sleep for a longer period of time.
And so I love this from Healthy Cell. We're going
to put the link.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Below the ingredients stay in your body. It's not just
sleep a. There's zinc and there's magnesium, all these things
that are good for your body and start repairing your
body over while you're sleeping.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, great thing also, and then trying to focus
more on the nutrition and the food that you're putting
in your body. It's so important because you've got to
put the right things in your body to help your
body fight the negative side effects of the abuse. Okay,
And we also want to talk about getting more physically
fit every day too, and we can talk about that
(23:29):
more in future podcast, But one of the things I
want to talk to you about today is nutrition, Okay,
because we can't get everything or it's hard to get
everything that we that we our body needs, especially in
rat races, from our diet, you know, so it's very
very hard. Here's what I do every single day. It's
another healthy cell product. I just love these because they're liquid,
(23:51):
so your body absorbs the more one hundred and fifty
percent more pills than in pills. Okay, so this is
called Oh I'm sorry, I grabbed o em sleep again.
This is bioactive. Okay. This is like taking fourteen pills
everything your body needs through the day, Vitamin B. People
take it right, It's got everything your body needs. And
(24:11):
we did a whole video on this. But please look
at the link below. And we're not trying to be
selly here whatever. I just want to want to recommend
health thanks to you that we use to stay healthy.
We're living our best lives right now and we've tried
so many different things. We're old and it's not babe,
and we love this. So please please try Bioactive by
(24:32):
Healthy Selment. Put the Lincoln below with our discount code.
You get twenty percent off your purchase when you use
Warrior twenty when you purchase these, And they have so
many other great products joint mobility, I hear and nails
and and immune support because a lot of people get
sick a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
One of our clients that her immune systems really suffering.
They do have a great product for building your immune system.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Right right, So they really really do. So they've got
so many great products. We love Healthy Cell and we
just we recommend it to all our clients just because
it's something that we use every singer and that we love. Okay,
so let's talk about the next podcast. You uputably going
to the podcasts, So if you haven't subscribed to this
YouTube channel, we're trying so hard to build this, so
(25:16):
please subscribe so you get notified. We're going to do
a podcast every single week, and every week we're going
to talk about a certain.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Topic and it's that you guys talk about that you
want to hear. So in the comments, let us know
what you thought about our podcast. Let us know what
you want us to talk about issues that you're dealing with.
That's how we get a lot of our information out
to our followers is because of what people want to
(25:44):
know more about, and that's what we want to bring.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, we're here for you, so we want to know
what you want to hear from us. And and also
so please subscribe, And if you liked this podcast. Please
give us the thumbs up. We really help that. That's
going to help us with the algorithms and get this
message out to more people. Last thing, please check out
our website. Oh yeah, we are so proud of our website.
We worked really really hard on it and has so
(26:08):
many so much great information on it and so many
great resources no matter where you are on the journey.
And I'm going to put that link in the description
below as well, and it's vvtwow dot com. If you
google Victim to Warrior, all our social media channels will
come up. Please follow us there. But also please check
out our website. We are so proud of it and
we hope it's going to be beneficial to you and
(26:30):
your journey.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And I did want to let people know if you
have any questions or if you want to know more
details about the gray Rock method, just email us at
info at the vtwow dot com. That's info at the
vtwow dot com so we can provide you with additional information.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We'll put that link there. And if you want your
question answered on an upcoming podcast, please send your question
or questions to questions at the vtwow dot com. We'll
put that link in the description as well below, and
we just want to thank you so much for watching
this podcast. We hope you found it informative and helpful,
and just remember we are here for you and so stay.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Safe and we'll see you on episode three.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Look forward to seeing you soon.
Doing the Gray Rock. Basically, like John likes to say,
is you are being as dull as a rock on
the ground. Who in the world would argue with a
role right?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You remember? And that's a great point because if you
can remember that when they're going after you, when they're
trying to push your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you,
remember you can't argue with the rock. Welcome to the
Victim the Warrior.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Show Warrior Talk, and this is our second episode. We're
John and Melissa and we are survivors of narcissistic abuse
and our mission is to help other survivors reclaim and
rebuild their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
On this podcast, we're going to talk about gray Rock method.
What is the gray Rock method and when to use
it and when not to use it.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Now, the Gray Rock method is a coping mechanism.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It is not a.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Cure for the relationship to get better. It's not a
cure for the narcissist.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's not a fix.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's a way for you, as the victim to retain
your sanity during an abusive relationship. This is what you
would use in order to decide whether or not you
want to continue your life in this abusive relationship or
you want to plan a safe exit strategy to leave it.
(01:24):
It will not fix the relationship, and if your partner
is a narcissist, it will not change. It will only
get worse.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right. I know you always tell your clients this is
a short term tactic. It's not a long term fixed right.
So in your experience when you were in your narcissistic
abusive relationship, which was horrible, guys, if you knew the
whole story, when did you ever use the gray Rock
method in an advantage? Well really helped you.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
He would bait me. Okay, So you know what bating means.
It literally means trying to trip you up into a
situation when you're trying to remain composed, You're trying to
keep your emotions intact, and they just keep chipping away
at things they know are going to upset you.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well they buttons, they did absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh my god, they know how to pour salt in
your wounds big time.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So he would bait me on things, and I would
I would really really try to hold that temperant.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Sometimes it would get the best of me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But when I started understanding the gray Rock method, I
started basically ignoring what he was saying. I would answer
him with one word answers, a nod, maybe just a look,
a shrug. So when he kept on and on, I
would just say okay or no are I'm not going
(02:49):
to deal with this right now, and I would just
walk away. Now, they will continue to try to bait you,
so you have to remember in your mind what they're
trying to do. They are trying to get an emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Rush out of you. It's how they feed.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Their being because they can't really produce their own emotions,
they have to suck them out of you.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So you have to recognize what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And when you're doing the gray rock basically, like Jong
likes to say, is you are being as dull as
a rock on the ground. Who in the world would
argue with or right?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You remember? And that's a great point because if you
can remember that when they're going after you, when they're
trying to push your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you,
remember you can argue with the rock.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Think about if you had a rock and funny and
you're yelling at the rock, you're getting no response. So
try to envision that when you're using the gray Rock method,
you're just being a rock. You're just being very noncommittal,
non emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You're unresponsible and uninteresting too.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The whole thing about a narcissist is they want to
provoke you.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
They want that.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So if you become uninteresting to them and they're not
going to get that reaction out of you, they are
going to eventually give up. Now, I'm not saying that
they won't come back at you. That's why this is
just a very short term coping mechanism only justin you
can keep your sanity, you can start thinking clearly, and
you can make an educated decision as to whether or
(04:18):
not you're willing to live your life like this or
much much worse, or you're ready to plan how to
get out.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, let's talk about this. Well, let's talk about this
real quick. To see what the gray rock method looks
like in action, Melissa and I have put together a
series of videos. It's different examples of how to use
the gray rock in different different environments, and so you
can kind of see for yourself what it looks like
(04:45):
and maybe it'll give you some examples or some ideas
of how to use it yourself. So I'm gonna put
the link and below in the description. It's on our
TikTok channel. And when you get to our TikTok channel
right although our profile, you see play and you'll just
go through there and you'll see gray Rock Method series. Now,
this series of four videos has had over ten million
(05:08):
views just on TikTok, right, just on TikTok alone. So
it's extremely powerful what you're able to see from these
So please check out those three videos and you'll be like, wow, Oh,
I didn't know I could use it there, Or that's
a great idea, I'll try that.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Oh, that's exactly how he baits me. That's exactly how
she baits me.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, So I we really really hope that those examples
give you a better understanding of what the gray Rock
Method is. Okay, now, Melissa, you just talked about it's
a short term. It's a short term. Now we're going
to talk about when to use it and when not
to use it. But please know it's a short term.
It's not a long term fixed. Now we're going to
talk about something after we get through with gray Rock
(05:47):
where we want to help you if you decide you
want to leave, how do you do that, okay, so
just hold on for a few minutes. Let's get through
this gray rock, and then we're going to talk about
if you decide you want to leave, how do you
do that? So let's talk about when are the best
times to use gray rock and then when is it
not appropriate to use gray rock.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If your abuser is prone to violence, this may provoke them,
So we want to put that warning out there. Narcissists
can be violent, or they don't have to be violent,
but they're still very dangerous mentally, physically, emotionally, financially.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
So when you are using this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Coping mechanism for yourself to keep common side, to not
allow them to provoke provoke an emotional outburst from you,
that is when you use it. If they are prone
to violence, you are going to have to make that
judgment because if they are reactionary and they're violent, this
(06:47):
may not be a method that you want to use. Honestly,
that is a relationship you've got to get out of.
But you know, we'll cover that in future podcast. But
that's when not to use the gray rock and not
to use it as a long term method. I have
clients that have used the gray rock method for like
two years. Can you imagine being a rock in your
(07:10):
relationship for two years? That's not healthy. This is a
short term coping mechanism. The long term goal is to
get out. So John, you know, if you're still in it,
you do have.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Resources, right if you're still in it and you just
don't know what to do at this point, there's a
lot of anxiety with leaving an abusive relationship. I mean,
we've all been there. We understand exactly what that is.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
It's all of it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So what Melissa and I did is we put together
the same critical steps that we used and what we
coach our clients on on how to leave, and we
call it the twelve critical steps to take before you leave. Now,
we recorded an entire webinar to coach you through this
list because it's a significant list and there's a lot
of things that need to be done and so planning
(07:57):
right and I always say, look, think about the day
before you leave on vacation. You've got your list, you know,
bring the anxiety level down. You're like, look, i gotta
get my get my bags out of the basement, I've
got to pack my bags, I've got to get my
dry clean and put the dogs in the kennel. I
need to get my passport, I need to know what
time I need to leave for the airport, the whole thing.
So this is the exact same thing. It teaches you
(08:19):
exactly what you have to do, step by step before
you leave.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Before you say, but you're going to.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Leave, Yeah, you know. I'm so glad you brought that up.
That was my mistake, most of our mistakes, most of
Barbara Steak. What I did before I was ready is
I told my abuser that I think we need to
get a divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I'm going to go ahead and file for a divorce.
That was the worst thing because I wasn't prepared. I
didn't have everything in order, credit cards, my emergency fund,
I didn't have all the things credit frozen, all the
things that you need to do before you leave, before
you say you're going to leave. And then what guess
what happened. I came home from work one day and
(09:03):
my house was completely empty and it was.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Just credit cards to move everything.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It was just horrible to come home to it, you
completely vacant house. Now, that was my fault because I
told her what I was going to do he.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Gave He gave her his playbook, right, you never give
that to the enemy team.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And guess what else started when I mentioned that, I
mentioned she told everybody that I was physically abusing her,
which is horrible thing to go through for a man.
But what happens is then your support group distances and
sells from you, so you don't have people to talk
to her and confide in and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You're in an emotional tizzy, so you're not thinking clearly
in order to make that list of what you should
do for you leave.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
So it's just got some great great ideas on there,
like checking for tracking devices on your phone and your
car so that when you leave, you can leave safely.
But the really important thing about this list is that
it puts you in a good put place so that
when you do leave, you don't have to go back.
And that's what happens. Over fifty percent of the time
when people leave, they end up having to go back
(10:13):
because there weren't prepared, they didn't have their ducks in
a row, so that they have to go back, and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Then financially desperate to go back because they haven't done
the financial steps that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Are in the twelve critical right, So it gets really
desperate at that point because your abuser is even more
controlling and it's even harder to leave the next time.
So you want to make sure you're leaving, So check out.
I'm going to put the link below for the twelve
critical steps to take before you leave webinar. It's on
our website, the v twow dot com, and I'll put
that link below too. So let's get to a couple
of questions, because I love y'all's participation. Taint that we
(10:45):
got question from the last Yeah, we have questions, So
I want to go through a couple of questions. And
I know the questions that I selected from all the
ones that we received are going to be a benefit
to all of you. So you know, please don't don't
sign off right now. No, listen to these because I
think they're gonna be a benefit forever, no matter where
you are in your journey, whether you're still in the
(11:05):
relationship and you're still in the abusive relationship, whether you're
trying to get out. You know, you're co parenting all
those horrible things that you have to go through when
you're in that war. And then if you're in recovery
from the abuse and just don't know what to do
and don't then, and this is going to help you
get on stuck. So I've got three questions here and
they're both very pertinent to no matter where you are
(11:26):
in here.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So let's just talk questions.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, okay? Oh did I say? Okay? All right?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I just love him okay?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And I love you too, baby, sometimes more than others.
So how do I not beat myself up for not
being farther along in regaining my life back? Now? This
person has left her abusive relationships, She's already been through
the divorce. She's been a client of ours for a
long long time. Yeah, we love her. She is really
(11:58):
despondent because she can't move forward now. She's recently become
one of our clients in our eight week life transformation
or method, and things are changing for her. She has
daily action steps. So that's the important thing for you
if you're in recovery and you're stuck, is you don't
have daily action steps that you're taking.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To change the way your brain thinks. Because when you've
planned to leave, you've left. It is an emotional rollercoaster.
But the only thing your brain knows is the abuse
it suffered, so you keep reliving it, reliving the shame,
the guilt, the fear, the heartbreak, all of these things
are just bouncing around in your head because your brain
(12:40):
doesn't know how to break free from what it's been
doing the fight or flight for lord knows how long.
So the steps that we talk about starting small, and
I'm gonna let John talk about how to start your
morning because you're in control of at least thirty minutes
to one hour of your day.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, let's talk about this a little bit because I
I just I had a lot of regrets. I had
a ton of regret because I felt, like, you know,
I was like, look, I'm a pretty smart guy. How
did I allow myself to be so manipulated? And it
took me several years to really to recover from the regrets.
And let me tell you, Mossa and I were talking
(13:20):
about as we're preparing for this podcast. We started laughing
because one of the red flags that I ignored, and
there were a lot of them, this was this red
flag was so big. It was like if you ever
been to one of those RV sales places and they
have these massive American flags. Yeah, that was this red
flag and I totally ignored it through. So if you've
(13:44):
ignored red flags, please join the club, because we all have.
We all did all right. This red flag was I
was asked to go to couples counseling. Okay, the red
flag is we weren't married yet. If you have to
go to couples absolutely before you're even married, that's a
massive red flag. And I charged right through it. And
(14:05):
I regret that to this day. So if you're struggling
with the with recovering we.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Have because of regret, shame, and all these.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Things, that's so understandable. The one of the things that
really helped me get through that was getting into support group.
That was massive, because your friends and family they just
don't understand what you're going through because they have not
been there, and they get tired. Even a lot of
therapists they don't get it. They think they haven't lived
(14:36):
through it. You know, they want to talk about your
childhood or you know, how are your parents or whatever.
They don't understand what it was like going through an
abusive relationship. A lot of them don't like So that's
why you know, we love our eight week life Transformational method.
It's it's an eight week course you're going to recover?
Is it going to take years? Or can we get
it down to a couple of months? And that's what
(14:56):
we want to do for you. Also, Melissa is so
amazing uh as a coach and and can help you
get through this quicker too. Well, we both are, but
Melissa's phenomenal. I just I love hearing her testimonials from
her clients. She does such a great job. We're gonna
put her link down below too if you need help
with that. But let's get to this next question, because Babe,
(15:16):
I think that was what we're talking about with the
first hour. Okay, So how do I get consistent, get
better at not letting myself be sidetracked and make myself
a priority? How are you and John able to do that? Well?
We still do this to this day. Okay. It's about
owning the first hour of your day. If you can
(15:38):
own the first hour of your day, it's yours, it's
not anybody else's. If you have to get up a
little bit earlier so that you have that one hour
of quiet and peace, let's talk about that first hour
that's going to change your day. I call this stacking wins. Okay,
and that first hour, don't hit that s news button
and lay in bed and hit this news and hit
(15:59):
this news. It's so bad. But a lot of times
when we're depressed and we just don't want to face
the day, we do that. So we've already got an
l for the day, which is a loss. We don't
want to do that. Get out of bed. First thing,
drink a big old glass of water, and now we're
gonna put.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It for any other bedrooms before.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Coffee or anything like that. Like that, And also another thing,
don't lay in bed and scroll through social media or
looking down email. Get out of bed, turn your phone
upside down, and go get a bunch of water. Because
your body is dehydrated from the night before a full
night to sleep. Your body's hootter. So you want to
drink twenty four ounces of water. Now we're gonna we're
gonna recommend a couple of things that you can add
(16:40):
to your water to make water to make it taste
a little bit better. But it's called a hydration multiplier,
which makes you so you don't have to drink quite
as much water to get the same benefits. It right,
So we'll put a link to that below as well.
But and then you go into meditation a quiet place
room where you can just be yourself and mend it
(17:00):
take for five to ten minutes. It's a great way
to strike the day.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And you could use any type of meditation. People think meditation.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Is just a who you just have to sit there, right,
It's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It can be positive affirmations. It could be prayer, it
could be calming music. Meditation is all about gaining control
of your mind and your wondering thoughts.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Because our thoughts go all over the place. So when
John's talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Turning that phone upside down and not scroll it, I
mean nothing up. Don't even look at your phone because
you will immediately become distracted with all the noise and
nonsense that's going on on the internet.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
That's what it's for. It's to get you distracted.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So not being distracted is huge, and that meditation is
your way of owning your mind, basically keeping your mind
basically in your control, whether you have to say launchra's
over and over again, so it is not wandering. When
it wanders, there's ways to bring it right back to
(18:04):
the present moment.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right, and there's some great meditation guided meditation right here
on YouTube. Oh yes, and so, and then we want
to go into prayer if you're religious. If you're not,
let's go into some gratitude, just being thankful and affirmations
for the day before, what happened, Grateful for your home
or your family, or your health, or breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Being able to do the meditative right right.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So those are those are huge things. So we're going
right into that, and then we're going to go into journaling.
Now we coach all these things in our eight week
life transformation. If you don't know how to do these things,
we're going to hold your hand through that. So don't
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Daily intentional steps that we mean holding hands. We don't
mean oh, here's the program, just go do it. It
is daily actionable steps, intentional steps. That's how you change
the way your mind, body and soul connect.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So think about that first hour. You've just stacked four
winds in a row, you got right out of bed
and got that water, you went into meditation, you went
into prayer or affirmations, and then you went into journaling.
I know it sounds like a lot if it's not
part of your routine and it's not a habit yet,
but just try to start stacking wins in that first
hour and it will change your entire day, It'll change
your entire outlook. Now let's get to one more question.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh, let me just finish this on journaling, because so
many people think journaling is you've got to sit there
and just try to write your thoughts out and stuff.
So our client right here what I asked her to
do because she was struggling. She was struggling, and our
program does have journaling prompts and things like that, and
it just takes time.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Just like meditation.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I told her to start writing out her dream destination vacation?
Where is it?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Day one?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Where is this dream destination vacation that you've never been
able to take with the abusive partner? And it's some
place that you.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Would absolutely just love to go.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That is your first journal write it down data, Yes,
to write about when you're gonna go and what what
are you going to see that first day? These are
things that your brain is now looking at, going, wow,
that's an amazing vision for me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Day two?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes, what are we gonna eat? Are you going to
be on a tour where are you gonna go? Those
are the things your brain is going to start looking
forward to what you are telling it about your dream
vacation and do that just for seven days. By the
end of seven days, you have your entire vacation planned
out and it is one of your goals that you
will absolutely achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's hugely powerful. Yeah, wow, And.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's positive because a lot of people think journaling is
just negative.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You do need to purge stuff, but.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Sometimes it just when you're trying to gain control of
your mind, body, and soul. It's difficult to write a
bunch of negative things out. You do need to purge
those things, but taking something positive to motivate yourself, to
motivate your brain is hugely powerful. So that's something you
can try if you haven't journaled before and you're kind
(21:07):
of struggling with it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right, Okay, let's get to this last question real quick.
How do I reclaim my health back? You know, abuse
causes so many negatives and mental side effects, so let's
let's get to this. I think this is so important
if you're still in it, if you're trying to get out,
or if you're out, you've suffered your health and so
(21:29):
let's talk about that. What recommendations do you have for
short term and long term? Okay, I love this question
because I am a fitness and nutrition fanatic. I love
talking to people about.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I have to lay out the one laying in
the bed doing Yeah, I just you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
If you're prioritizing that first hour and your and you're
really important, you got to get eight hours of sleep. Yet,
if you're struggling trying to get those eight hours of
sleep every night, and so there's so many things that
we talk about in our A with Life Transformation method
about sleeping. But real quickly for this podcast, let's talk
about that. You got to get to sleep early every night.
It's got to be a dark room, it's got to
(22:09):
be quiet. But if you're struggling with sleep still, you
still have thoughts you can't get past. You might need
a little bit of help sleeping. And that's okay most humans,
do you know, We just have a lot. Yeah. And
so what Melissa and I do and recommend it's not pharmaceuticals.
We do not want to talk about pharmaceuticals getting addicted
to sleep aids. That is not.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
We love a healthy sleep aid and I take this.
We both take this every night from Healthy Cell. It's
called r EM Sleep.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
And it's liquid.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, it's liquid. Just drink it half hour before bedtime.
And it's got nutrients in there and things that will
help you sleep quick, go to sleep quicker, and then
go into a deeper sleep for a longer period of time.
And so I love this from Healthy Cell. We're going
to put the link.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Below the ingredients stay in your body. It's not just
sleep a. There's zinc and there's magnesium, all these things
that are good for your body and start repairing your
body over while you're sleeping.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, great thing also, and then trying to focus
more on the nutrition and the food that you're putting
in your body. It's so important because you've got to
put the right things in your body to help your
body fight the negative side effects of the abuse. Okay,
And we also want to talk about getting more physically
fit every day too, and we can talk about that
(23:29):
more in future podcast, But one of the things I
want to talk to you about today is nutrition, Okay,
because we can't get everything or it's hard to get
everything that we that we our body needs, especially in
rat races, from our diet, you know, so it's very
very hard. Here's what I do every single day. It's
another healthy cell product. I just love these because they're liquid,
(23:51):
so your body absorbs the more one hundred and fifty
percent more pills than in pills. Okay, so this is
called Oh I'm sorry, I grabbed o em sleep again.
This is bioactive. Okay. This is like taking fourteen pills
everything your body needs through the day, Vitamin B. People
take it right, It's got everything your body needs. And
(24:11):
we did a whole video on this. But please look
at the link below. And we're not trying to be
selly here whatever. I just want to want to recommend
health thanks to you that we use to stay healthy.
We're living our best lives right now and we've tried
so many different things. We're old and it's not babe,
and we love this. So please please try Bioactive by
(24:32):
Healthy Selment. Put the Lincoln below with our discount code.
You get twenty percent off your purchase when you use
Warrior twenty when you purchase these, And they have so
many other great products joint mobility, I hear and nails
and and immune support because a lot of people get
sick a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
One of our clients that her immune systems really suffering.
They do have a great product for building your immune system.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Right right, So they really really do. So they've got
so many great products. We love Healthy Cell and we
just we recommend it to all our clients just because
it's something that we use every singer and that we love. Okay,
so let's talk about the next podcast. You uputably going
to the podcasts, So if you haven't subscribed to this
YouTube channel, we're trying so hard to build this, so
(25:16):
please subscribe so you get notified. We're going to do
a podcast every single week, and every week we're going
to talk about a certain.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Topic and it's that you guys talk about that you
want to hear. So in the comments, let us know
what you thought about our podcast. Let us know what
you want us to talk about issues that you're dealing with.
That's how we get a lot of our information out
to our followers is because of what people want to
(25:44):
know more about, and that's what we want to bring.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, we're here for you, so we want to know
what you want to hear from us. And and also
so please subscribe, And if you liked this podcast. Please
give us the thumbs up. We really help that. That's
going to help us with the algorithms and get this
message out to more people. Last thing, please check out
our website. Oh yeah, we are so proud of our website.
We worked really really hard on it and has so
(26:08):
many so much great information on it and so many
great resources no matter where you are on the journey.
And I'm going to put that link in the description
below as well, and it's vvtwow dot com. If you
google Victim to Warrior, all our social media channels will
come up. Please follow us there. But also please check
out our website. We are so proud of it and
we hope it's going to be beneficial to you and
(26:30):
your journey.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And I did want to let people know if you
have any questions or if you want to know more
details about the gray Rock method, just email us at
info at the vtwow dot com. That's info at the
vtwow dot com so we can provide you with additional information.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We'll put that link there. And if you want your
question answered on an upcoming podcast, please send your question
or questions to questions at the vtwow dot com. We'll
put that link in the description as well below, and
we just want to thank you so much for watching
this podcast. We hope you found it informative and helpful,
and just remember we are here for you and so stay.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Safe and we'll see you on episode three.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Look forward to seeing you soon.
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