October 8, 2025 • 27 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Doing the Gray Rock. Basically, like John likes to say,
is you are being as dull as a rock on
the ground. Who in the world would argue with.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A right you remember? And that's a great point because
if you can remember that when they're going after you,
when they're trying to push your buttons, when they're trying
to trigger you, remember you can argue with the rock.
Welcome to the Victims the Warrior Show Warrior Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We're John and Melissa and we are survivors of narcissistic
abuse and our mission is to help other survivors reclaim
and rebuild their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
On this podcast, we're going to talk about gray Rock method.
What is the Gray Rock method and when to use
it and when not to use it?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, the Gray Rock method is a coping mechanism. It
is not a cure for the relationship to get better.
It's not a cure for the narcissists. It's not a fix.
It's a way for you, as the victim to retain
your sanity during an abusive relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
This is what you would use in order to.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Decide whether or not you want to continue your life
in this abusive relationship or you want to plan a
safe exit strategy to leave it. It will not fix
the relationship, and if your partner is a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It will not change. It will only get worse.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Right. I know you always tell your clients this is
a short term tactic. It's not a long term fixed right.
So in your experience, when you were in your narcissistic
abusive relationship, which was horrible, Guys, if you knew the
whole story, when did you ever use the gray Rock
method in an advantage? Well really helped you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He would bait me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, So if you know what abating means, it literally
means trying to trip you up into situation when you're
trying to remain composed, You're trying to keep your emotions intact,
and they just keep chipping away at things they know
are going to upset you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, they buttons, they did absolutely, Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
My god, they know how to pour salt in your
wounds big time.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So he would bait me on things, and I would
I would really really try to hold that temperant.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Sometimes it would get the best of me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But when I started understanding the gray Rock method, I
started basically ignoring what he was saying. I would answer
him with one word answers, a nod, maybe just.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
A look, a shrug.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
So when he kept on and on, I would just
say okay or no, are I'm not going to deal
with this right now, and I would just walk away. Now,
they will continue to try to bait you, so you
have to remember in your mind what they're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
They are trying to get an emotional rush out of you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's how they feed their being because they can't really
produce their own emotions, they have to suck them out
of you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So you have to recognize what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And when you're doing the gray rock basically, like John
likes to say, is you are being as dull as
a rock on the ground. Who in the world would
argue with a right And.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's a great point because if you can remember that
when they're going after you, when they're trying to push
your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you, remember you
can argue with the rock.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Think about if you had a rock and funny and
you're yelling at the rock, you're getting no response. So
try to envision that when you're using the gray rock method,
you're just being a rock. You're just being very noncommittal,
non emotional. You're unresponsible and uninteresting too.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
The whole thing about a narcissist is they want to
provoke you. They want that. So if you become uninteresting
to them and they're not going to get that reaction
out of you, they are going to eventually give up.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Now, I'm not saying that they won't come back at you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's why this is just a very short term coping
mechanism only just so you can keep your sanity. You
can start thinking clearly and you can make.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
An educated decision as.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To whether or not you're willing to live your life
like this or much much worse, or you're ready to
plan how to get out.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, let's talk about this. Well, let's talk about this
real quick. To see what the gray rock method looks
like in action, Melissa and I have put together a
series of videos. It's different examples of how to use
the gray rock in different different environments, and so you
can kind of see for yourself what it looks like
(04:43):
and maybe it'll give you some examples or some ideas
of how to use it yourself. So I'm gonna put
the link in below in the description it's on our
TikTok channel. And when you get to our TikTok channel,
right below our profile, you see playlist and you'll just
go through there and you'll see gray Rock Method series. Now,
this series of four videos has had over ten million
(05:06):
views just on TikTok, right just on TikTok alone. So
it's extremely powerful what you're able to see from these
So please check out those three videos and you'll be like, wow, Oh,
I didn't know I could use it there, Or that's
a great idea, I'll try that.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh, that's exactly how he baits me. That's exactly how
she me.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Right, So I we really really hope that those examples
give you a better understanding of what the gray Rock
Method is. Okay, Now, Melissa, you just talked about it's
a short term. It's a short term. Now we're going
to talk about when to use it and when not
to use it. But please know it's a short term.
It's not a long term fixed. Now we're going to
talk about something after we get through with gray Rock
(05:44):
where we want to help you. If you decide you
want to leave, how do you do that? Okay, So
just hold on for a few minutes. Let's get through
this gray Rock and then we're going to talk about
if you decide you want to leave, how do you
do that? So let's talk about when are the best
times to use gray rock, and then when is it
not appropriate to use gray Rock.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
If your abuser is prone to violence, this may provoke them,
So we want to put that warning out there. Narcissists
can be violent, or they don't have to be violent,
but they're still very dangerous mentally, physically, emotionally, financially.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So when you are.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Using this coping mechanism for yourself to keep common side,
to not allow them to provoke an emotional outburst from you,
that is when you use it. If they are prone
to violence, you are going to have to make that
judgment because if they are reactionary and they're violent, this
(06:45):
may not be a method that you want to use. Honestly,
that is a relationship you've got to get out of.
But you know, we'll cover that in future podcasts. But
that's when not to use the gray rock and not
to use it as a long term method that I
have clients that have used the gray Rock method for
like two years. Can you imagine being a rock in
(07:07):
your relationship for two years. That's not healthy. This is
a short term coping mechanism. The long term goal is
to get out. So John, you know, if you're still
in it, yeah, do have.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Resources, right if you're still in it and you just
don't know what to do at this point, there's a
lot of anxiety with leaving an abusive relationship. I mean,
we've all been there. We understand exactly what that is,
all of it. So what Melissa and I did is
we put together the same critical steps that we used
(07:39):
and what we coach our clients on on how to leave,
and we call it the twelve critical steps to take
before you leave. Now, we recorded an entire webinar to
coach you through this list because it's a significant list
and there's a lot of things that need to be
done and so planning right and I always say, look,
think about the day before you leave on vacation. You've
got your list, you know, bring the anxiety level down.
(08:02):
You're like, look, i gotta get my get my bags
out of the basement, I've got to pack my bags.
I've got to get my dry clean and put the
dogs in the kennel. I need to get my passport.
I need to know what time I need to leave
for the airport, the whole thing. So this is the
exact same thing. It teaches you exactly what you have
to do, step by step before you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Leave, and the man before you say, but you're going
to leave, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm so glad you brought that up. That was my mistake,
most of our mistakes, most of oarbaras sake. What I
did before I was ready is I told my abuser
that I think we need to get a divorce. I'm
going to go ahead and file for a divorce. That
was the worst thing because I wasn't prepared. I didn't
(08:46):
have everything in order, credit cards, my emergency fund, I
didn't have all the things, credit frozen, all the things
that you need to do before you leave, before you
say you're going to leave. And then what guess what happened.
I came home from work one day and my house
was completely empty and credit.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Cards to move everything.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It was horrible. It was just horrible to come home
to a completely vacant house. Now that was my fault.
Because I told her what I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
He gave He gave her his playbook. You never give
that to the enemy team.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And guess what else started when I mentioned that, I
mentioned she told everybody that I was physically abusing her,
which is horrible thing to go through for a man.
But what happens is then your support group distances and
sells from you, so you don't have people to talk
to her and confide in and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You're in an emotional tizzy, so you're not thinking clearly
in order to make that list of what you.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Should do for you.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So it's just got some great great ideas on there,
like checking for tracking devices on your phone and your
car so that when you leave, you can leave safely.
But the really important thing about this list is that
it puts you in a good put place so that
when you do leave, you don't have to go back.
And that's what happens. Over fifty percent of the time
when people leave, they end up having to go back
(10:10):
because there weren't prepared, they didn't have their ducks in
a row, so that they have to go back.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And financially desperate to go back because they haven't done
the financial steps that are in the.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Twelve critical right, So it gets really desperate at that
point because your abuser is even more controlling and it's
even harder to leave the next time, So you want
to make sure you're leaving, so check out I'm going
to put the link below for the twelve critical steps
to take before you leave webinar. It's on our website,
the v twow dot com, and I'll put that link
below too. So let's get to a couple of questions,
because I love y'all's participation into that question from the
(10:44):
last Yeah, we have a questions. I'm want to go
through a couple of questions, and I know the questions
that I selected from all the ones that we received
are going to be a benefit to all of you.
So you know, please don't don't sign off right now.
Listen to these because I think they're going to be
a benefit fit no matter where you are in your journey,
whether you're still in the relationship and you're still in
(11:04):
the abusive relationship, whether you're trying to get out, you know,
you're co parenting all those horrible things that you have
to go through when you're in that war. And then
if you're in recovery from the abuse, you just don't
know what to do and don't and this is going
to help you get on stuck. So I've got three
questions here and they're both very pertinent to no matter
where you are in here.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So let's just talk questions.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, okay? Oh did I say? Okay? All right?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I just love him okay?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And I love you too, baby, sometimes more than others.
So how do I not beat myself up for not
being farther along in regaining my life back? Now? This
person has left her abusive relationships, She's already been through
the divorce. She's been a client of ours for a
long long time, and we love her. She is really
(11:56):
despondent because she can't move forward now. She she've recently
become one of our clients in our eight week live
transformation or method, and things are changing for her. She
has daily action steps. So that's the important thing for
you if you're in recovery and you're stuck, is you
don't have daily action steps that you're taking.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
To change the way your brain thinks. Because when you've
planned to leave, you've left. It is an emotional rollercoaster,
but the only thing your brain knows is the abuse
it suffered, so you keep reliving it, reliving the shame,
the guilt, the fear, the heartbreak, all of these things
are just bouncing around in your head because your brain
(12:38):
doesn't know how to break free from what it's been
doing the fight or flight for lord knows how long.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the steps that we talk about starting small.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And I'm gonna let John talk about how to start
your morning because you're in control of at least thirty
minutes to one hour of your day.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, very much. Let's talk about this a little bit
because I just I had a lot of regrets. I
had a ton of regret because I felt like, you know,
I was like, look, I'm a pretty smart guy. How
did I allow myself to be so manipulated? And it
took me several years to really to recover from the regrets.
And let me tell you, Melissa and I were talking
(13:18):
about as we're preparing for this podcast. We started laughing
because one of the red flags that I ignored, and
there were a lot of them, this was this red
flag was so big. It was like if you ever
been with one of those RV sales places and they
have these massive American flags. Yeah, that was this red
flag and I totally ignored it. So if you've ignored
(13:43):
red flags, please join the club because we all have.
We all did all right. This red flag was I
was asked to go to couples counseling. Okay, the red
flag is we weren't married yet. If you have to
go to couples cansuling before you're even married, that's a
massive red flag. And I charged right through it and
(14:03):
and I regret that to this day. So if you're
struggling with the with recovering we.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Have because of regret, shame, and all.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
These things, that's so understandable. The one of the things
that really helped me get through that was getting into
support group. That was massive because your friends and family
they just don't understand what you're going through because they
have not been there. And even a lot of therapists
they don't get it. They think they haven't lived through it.
(14:34):
You know, they want to talk about your childhood or
you know, how are your parents or whatever. They don't
understand what it was like going through an abusive relationship.
A lot of them don't like So that's why you know,
we love our eight week Life Transformational Method. It's it's
an eight week course. You're going to recover? Is it
going to take years? Or can we get it down
to a couple of months, and that's what we want
to do for you. Also, Melissa is so amazing as
(14:58):
a coach and and and can help you get through
this quicker too. Well, we both are, but Melissa's phenomenal.
I just I love hearing her testimonials from her clients.
She does such a great job. We're gonna put her
link down below two if you need help with that.
But let's get to this next question, because Babe, I
think that was what we're talking about with the first hour. Okay,
So how do I get consistent, get better at not
(15:21):
letting myself be sidetracked and make myself a priority? How
are you and John able to do that? Well? We
still do this to this day. Okay. It's about owning
the first hour of your day. If you can own
the first hour of your day, it's yours, it's not
anybody else's. If you have to get up a little
(15:41):
bit earlier so that you have that one hour of
quiet and peace, let's talk about that first hour that's
going to change your day. I call this stacking wins. Okay,
And that first hour, don't hit that news button and
lay in bed and hit this news and hit this news.
It's so bad. But a lot of time when we're
depressed and we just don't want to face the day,
(16:03):
we do that. So we've already got an l for
the day, which is a loss. We don't want to
do that. Get out of bed. First thing, drink a
big old glass of water, and now we're gonna put.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It for any other bedroom before.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Coffee or anything like that. And also another thing, don't
lay in bed and scroll through social media or look
at an email. Get out of bed, turn your phone
upside down, and go get a bunch of water. Because
your body is dehydrated from the night before a full
night's sleep. Your body's hotter, so you want to drink
twenty four ounces of water. Now we're gonna we're gonna
(16:35):
recommend a couple of things that you can add to
your water to make water, to make it taste a
little bit better. But it's called a hydration multiplier, which
makes you so you don't have to drink quite as
much water to get the same benefits it right, So
we'll put a link to that blow as well. But
and then you go into meditation, a quiet place room
where you can just be yourself and meditate for five
(16:58):
to ten minutes. It's a great way to start to day.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And you can use any type of meditation. People think
meditation is just a.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Who you just have to sit there, right, It's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It can be positive affirmations. It could be prayer, it
could be calming music. Meditation is all about gaining control
of your mind and your wandering thoughts.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Because our thoughts go all over the place.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So when John's talking about turning that phone upside down
and not scroll it, I mean nothing up. Don't even
look at your phone because you will immediately become distracted
with all the noise and nonsense that's going on on
the internet.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
That's what it's for. It's to get you distracted. So
not being distracted is.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Huge, and that meditation is your way of owning your mind,
basically keeping your mind.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Basically in your control.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Whether you have to say launchras over and over again,
so it is not wandering. When it wanders, there's ways
to bring it right back to the present moment, right.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And there's some great meditation guided meditation right here on YouTube.
Oh yes, and so, and then we want to go
into prayer. If you're religious, if you're not, let's go
into some gratitude, just being thankful and affirmations for the
day before what happened, Grateful for your home or your family,
or your health, or breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Being able to do the meditat right right.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So those are those are huge things. So we're going
right into that, and then we're going to go into journaling.
Now we coach all these things in our eight week
life transformation. If you don't know how to do these things,
we're going to hold your hand through that. So don't
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Daily intentional steps that we mean holding hands.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
We don't mean oh, here's the program, just go do it.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It is daily actionable steps, intentional steps. That's how you
change the way your mind, body.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And soul connect.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So think about that first hour. You've just stacked four
winds in a row. You got right out of bed
and got that water, you went into meditation, you went
into prayer or affirmations, and then you went into journaling.
I know it sounds like a lot if it's not
part of your routine and it's not a habit yet,
but just try to start stacking wins in that first
hour and it will change your entire day. It'll change
your entire outlook. Now let's get to one more question.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, let me just finish this on journaling, because so
many people think journaling is you've got to sit there
and just try to write your thoughts out and stuff.
So our client right here what I asked her to
do because she was struggling. She was struggling, and our
program does have journaling prompts and things like that, and
it just takes time, just like meditation. I told her
(19:34):
to start writing out her dream destination vacation.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Where is it? Day one?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Where is this dream destination vacation that you've never been
able to take with the abusive partner and at some
place that you would absolutely just love to go. That
is your first journal write it down, data decision. Yes,
Day two, write about when gonna go? And what what
(20:01):
are you going to see that first day? These are
things that your brain is now looking at, going wow,
that's a that's an amazing vision for make days U?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, what are we gonna eat? Are you going to
be on a tour? Where are you gonna go?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Those are the things your brain is going to start
looking forward to what you are telling it about your
dream vacation And do that just.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For seven days.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
By the end of seven days, you have your entire
vacation planned out and it is one of your goals
that you will absolutely achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's huguely powerful.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Wow, And it's positive because a lot of people think
journaling is just negative. You do need to purge stuff,
but sometimes it just when you're trying to gain control
of your mind, body, and soul. It's difficult to write
a bunch of negative things out. You do need to
purge those things. But taking something positive to motivate yourself
(20:58):
motivate your brain is hugely powerful. So that's something you
can try if you haven't journaled before and you're kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Struggling with it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Right, Okay, let's get to this last question real quick.
How do I reclaim my health back? You know, abuse
causes so many negative physical and mental side effects, so
let's let's get to this. I think this is so
important if you're still in it, if you're trying to
get out, or if you're out, you've suffered your health,
and so let's talk about that. What recommendations do you
(21:29):
have for short term and long term? Okay? I love
this question because I am a fitness and nutrition fanatic.
I love talking talking to people about Yeah, I have
to lay out the.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
One laying in the bed doing Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I just like, you know, if you're prioritizing that first
hour and you're and you're really important, you got to
get eight hours of sleep. Yet, if you're struggling trying
to get those eight hours of sleep every night, and
so there's so many things that we talk about in
our eight week life Transformation method about sleeping. But real
quickly for this podcast, let's talk about that. You got
to get to sleep early every night. It's got to
(22:05):
be a dark room, it's got to be quiet. But
if you're struggling with sleep still, you still have thoughts
you can't get past. You might need a little bit
of help sleeping. And that's okay most humans, do you know,
We just have a lot. Yeah. And so what Melissa
and I do and recommend it's not pharmaceuticals. We do
not want to talk about pharmaceuticals getting addicted to sleep aids.
(22:27):
That is not right. We love a healthy sleep aid
and I take this, we both take this every night
from Healthy Cell. It's called r EM sleep.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
And it's liquid.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, it's liquid. You just drink it half hour before bedtime,
and it's got nutrients in there and things that will
help you sleep quick, go to sleep quicker, and then
go into a deeper sleep for a longer period of time.
And so I love this from Healthy Cell. We're going
to put the link.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Below the ingredients stay in your body.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's not just sleep, a zinc and there's magnesium now,
all these things that are good for your body and
start repairing your.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Body over while you're sleeping. Yeah, yeah, great thing. Also,
and then trying to focus more on the nutrition and
the food that you're putting in your body. It's so
important because you've got to put the right things in
your body to help your body fight the negative side
effects of the abuse. Okay, And we also want to
talk about getting more physically fit every day too, and
(23:26):
we can talk about that more in future podcast, but
one of the things I want to talk to you
about today is nutrition, okay, because we can't get everything
or it's hard to get everything that we that we
our body needs, especially in running around from our diet,
you know, so it's very very hard. Here's what I
do every single day. It's another Healthy Cell product. I
(23:47):
just love these because they're liquid, so your body absorbs
the more one hundred and fifty percent more than in pills. Okay,
so this is called Oh I'm sorry, I grabbed o
em sleep again. This is bioactive. This is like taking
fourteen pills everything your body needs through the day. Imagine
vitamin B. Most people don't take it right, It's got
(24:07):
everything your body needs. And we did a whole video
on this, but please look at the link below. And
we're not trying to be selly here whatever. I just
want to want to record thanks to you that we
use to stay healthy. We're living our best lives right now,
and we've tried so many different things. We're old and
we stop, babe, and we love this. So please please
(24:29):
try Bioactive by Healthy Selllement. Put the Lincoln below with
our discount code. You get twenty percent off your purchase
when you use Warrior twenty when you purchase these. And
they have so many other great products, a joint mobility,
I hear and nails and immune support because a lot
of people get sick.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
A lot one of our clients that her immune systems
really suffering. They do have a great product for building
your immune system.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right right, so they really really do. So they've got
so many great products. So we love Healthy cell and
and we just we recommend it to all our clients
just because it's something that we use every single for
you and that we love. Okay, so let's talk about
the next podcast. You have put a podcasts, So if
you haven't subscribed to this YouTube channel, we're trying so
hard to build this, so please subscribe so you get notified.
(25:16):
We're going to do a podcast every single week, and
every week we're going to talk about a certain.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Topic and that you guys talk about that you want
to hear. So in the comments, let us know what
you thought about our podcast. Let us know what you
want us to talk about issues that you're dealing with.
That's how we get a lot of our information out
to our followers is because of what people want to
(25:42):
know more about, and that's what we want to bring.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, we're here for you, so we want to know
what you want to hear from us. And also, so
please subscribe, and if you liked this podcast, please give
us thumbs up. We really hopeful that's going to help
us with the algorithms and get this message out to
more people. Last thing, please check out our website. Oh yeah,
we are so proud of our website. We worked really
(26:04):
really hard on it and it has so many so
much great information on it and so many great resources
no matter where you are on the journey. And I'm
going to put that link in the description below as well,
and it's vvtwow dot com. If you google Victim to Warrior,
all our social media channels will come up. Please follow
us there, but also please check out our website. We
are so proud of it and we hope it's going
(26:26):
to be beneficial to you and your journey.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I did want to let people know if you
have any questions or if you want to know more
details about the Gray Rock method, just email us at
info at the vtwow dot com. That's info at the
vtwow dot com so we can provide you with additional information.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
We'll put that link there, and if you want your
question answered on an upcoming podcast, please send your question
or questions to questions at the vtwow dot com. We'll
put that link in the description as well. And we
just want to thank you so much for watching this podcast.
We hope you found it informative and helpful, and just
(27:07):
remember we are here for you, and.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
So stay safe and we'll see you on episode three.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Look forward to seeing you soon.
Doing the Gray Rock. Basically, like John likes to say,
is you are being as dull as a rock on
the ground. Who in the world would argue with.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
A right you remember? And that's a great point because
if you can remember that when they're going after you,
when they're trying to push your buttons, when they're trying
to trigger you, remember you can argue with the rock.
Welcome to the Victims the Warrior Show Warrior Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We're John and Melissa and we are survivors of narcissistic
abuse and our mission is to help other survivors reclaim
and rebuild their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
On this podcast, we're going to talk about gray Rock method.
What is the Gray Rock method and when to use
it and when not to use it?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, the Gray Rock method is a coping mechanism. It
is not a cure for the relationship to get better.
It's not a cure for the narcissists. It's not a fix.
It's a way for you, as the victim to retain
your sanity during an abusive relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
This is what you would use in order to.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Decide whether or not you want to continue your life
in this abusive relationship or you want to plan a
safe exit strategy to leave it. It will not fix
the relationship, and if your partner is a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It will not change. It will only get worse.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Right. I know you always tell your clients this is
a short term tactic. It's not a long term fixed right.
So in your experience, when you were in your narcissistic
abusive relationship, which was horrible, Guys, if you knew the
whole story, when did you ever use the gray Rock
method in an advantage? Well really helped you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He would bait me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, So if you know what abating means, it literally
means trying to trip you up into situation when you're
trying to remain composed, You're trying to keep your emotions intact,
and they just keep chipping away at things they know
are going to upset you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, they buttons, they did absolutely, Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
My god, they know how to pour salt in your
wounds big time.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So he would bait me on things, and I would
I would really really try to hold that temperant.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Sometimes it would get the best of me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But when I started understanding the gray Rock method, I
started basically ignoring what he was saying. I would answer
him with one word answers, a nod, maybe just.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
A look, a shrug.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
So when he kept on and on, I would just
say okay or no, are I'm not going to deal
with this right now, and I would just walk away. Now,
they will continue to try to bait you, so you
have to remember in your mind what they're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
They are trying to get an emotional rush out of you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's how they feed their being because they can't really
produce their own emotions, they have to suck them out
of you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So you have to recognize what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And when you're doing the gray rock basically, like John
likes to say, is you are being as dull as
a rock on the ground. Who in the world would
argue with a right And.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's a great point because if you can remember that
when they're going after you, when they're trying to push
your buttons, when they're trying to trigger you, remember you
can argue with the rock.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Think about if you had a rock and funny and
you're yelling at the rock, you're getting no response. So
try to envision that when you're using the gray rock method,
you're just being a rock. You're just being very noncommittal,
non emotional. You're unresponsible and uninteresting too.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
The whole thing about a narcissist is they want to
provoke you. They want that. So if you become uninteresting
to them and they're not going to get that reaction
out of you, they are going to eventually give up.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Now, I'm not saying that they won't come back at you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
That's why this is just a very short term coping
mechanism only just so you can keep your sanity. You
can start thinking clearly and you can make.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
An educated decision as.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To whether or not you're willing to live your life
like this or much much worse, or you're ready to
plan how to get out.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, let's talk about this. Well, let's talk about this
real quick. To see what the gray rock method looks
like in action, Melissa and I have put together a
series of videos. It's different examples of how to use
the gray rock in different different environments, and so you
can kind of see for yourself what it looks like
(04:43):
and maybe it'll give you some examples or some ideas
of how to use it yourself. So I'm gonna put
the link in below in the description it's on our
TikTok channel. And when you get to our TikTok channel,
right below our profile, you see playlist and you'll just
go through there and you'll see gray Rock Method series. Now,
this series of four videos has had over ten million
(05:06):
views just on TikTok, right just on TikTok alone. So
it's extremely powerful what you're able to see from these
So please check out those three videos and you'll be like, wow, Oh,
I didn't know I could use it there, Or that's
a great idea, I'll try that.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh, that's exactly how he baits me. That's exactly how
she me.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Right, So I we really really hope that those examples
give you a better understanding of what the gray Rock
Method is. Okay, Now, Melissa, you just talked about it's
a short term. It's a short term. Now we're going
to talk about when to use it and when not
to use it. But please know it's a short term.
It's not a long term fixed. Now we're going to
talk about something after we get through with gray Rock
(05:44):
where we want to help you. If you decide you
want to leave, how do you do that? Okay, So
just hold on for a few minutes. Let's get through
this gray Rock and then we're going to talk about
if you decide you want to leave, how do you
do that? So let's talk about when are the best
times to use gray rock, and then when is it
not appropriate to use gray Rock.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
If your abuser is prone to violence, this may provoke them,
So we want to put that warning out there. Narcissists
can be violent, or they don't have to be violent,
but they're still very dangerous mentally, physically, emotionally, financially.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So when you are.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Using this coping mechanism for yourself to keep common side,
to not allow them to provoke an emotional outburst from you,
that is when you use it. If they are prone
to violence, you are going to have to make that
judgment because if they are reactionary and they're violent, this
(06:45):
may not be a method that you want to use. Honestly,
that is a relationship you've got to get out of.
But you know, we'll cover that in future podcasts. But
that's when not to use the gray rock and not
to use it as a long term method that I
have clients that have used the gray Rock method for
like two years. Can you imagine being a rock in
(07:07):
your relationship for two years. That's not healthy. This is
a short term coping mechanism. The long term goal is
to get out. So John, you know, if you're still
in it, yeah, do have.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Resources, right if you're still in it and you just
don't know what to do at this point, there's a
lot of anxiety with leaving an abusive relationship. I mean,
we've all been there. We understand exactly what that is,
all of it. So what Melissa and I did is
we put together the same critical steps that we used
(07:39):
and what we coach our clients on on how to leave,
and we call it the twelve critical steps to take
before you leave. Now, we recorded an entire webinar to
coach you through this list because it's a significant list
and there's a lot of things that need to be
done and so planning right and I always say, look,
think about the day before you leave on vacation. You've
got your list, you know, bring the anxiety level down.
(08:02):
You're like, look, i gotta get my get my bags
out of the basement, I've got to pack my bags.
I've got to get my dry clean and put the
dogs in the kennel. I need to get my passport.
I need to know what time I need to leave
for the airport, the whole thing. So this is the
exact same thing. It teaches you exactly what you have
to do, step by step before you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Leave, and the man before you say, but you're going
to leave, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm so glad you brought that up. That was my mistake,
most of our mistakes, most of oarbaras sake. What I
did before I was ready is I told my abuser
that I think we need to get a divorce. I'm
going to go ahead and file for a divorce. That
was the worst thing because I wasn't prepared. I didn't
(08:46):
have everything in order, credit cards, my emergency fund, I
didn't have all the things, credit frozen, all the things
that you need to do before you leave, before you
say you're going to leave. And then what guess what happened.
I came home from work one day and my house
was completely empty and credit.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Cards to move everything.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It was horrible. It was just horrible to come home
to a completely vacant house. Now that was my fault.
Because I told her what I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
He gave He gave her his playbook. You never give
that to the enemy team.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And guess what else started when I mentioned that, I
mentioned she told everybody that I was physically abusing her,
which is horrible thing to go through for a man.
But what happens is then your support group distances and
sells from you, so you don't have people to talk
to her and confide in and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You're in an emotional tizzy, so you're not thinking clearly
in order to make that list of what you.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Should do for you.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So it's just got some great great ideas on there,
like checking for tracking devices on your phone and your
car so that when you leave, you can leave safely.
But the really important thing about this list is that
it puts you in a good put place so that
when you do leave, you don't have to go back.
And that's what happens. Over fifty percent of the time
when people leave, they end up having to go back
(10:10):
because there weren't prepared, they didn't have their ducks in
a row, so that they have to go back.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And financially desperate to go back because they haven't done
the financial steps that are in the.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Twelve critical right, So it gets really desperate at that
point because your abuser is even more controlling and it's
even harder to leave the next time, So you want
to make sure you're leaving, so check out I'm going
to put the link below for the twelve critical steps
to take before you leave webinar. It's on our website,
the v twow dot com, and I'll put that link
below too. So let's get to a couple of questions,
because I love y'all's participation into that question from the
(10:44):
last Yeah, we have a questions. I'm want to go
through a couple of questions, and I know the questions
that I selected from all the ones that we received
are going to be a benefit to all of you.
So you know, please don't don't sign off right now.
Listen to these because I think they're going to be
a benefit fit no matter where you are in your journey,
whether you're still in the relationship and you're still in
(11:04):
the abusive relationship, whether you're trying to get out, you know,
you're co parenting all those horrible things that you have
to go through when you're in that war. And then
if you're in recovery from the abuse, you just don't
know what to do and don't and this is going
to help you get on stuck. So I've got three
questions here and they're both very pertinent to no matter
where you are in here.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So let's just talk questions.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, okay? Oh did I say? Okay? All right?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I just love him okay?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And I love you too, baby, sometimes more than others.
So how do I not beat myself up for not
being farther along in regaining my life back? Now? This
person has left her abusive relationships, She's already been through
the divorce. She's been a client of ours for a
long long time, and we love her. She is really
(11:56):
despondent because she can't move forward now. She she've recently
become one of our clients in our eight week live
transformation or method, and things are changing for her. She
has daily action steps. So that's the important thing for
you if you're in recovery and you're stuck, is you
don't have daily action steps that you're taking.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
To change the way your brain thinks. Because when you've
planned to leave, you've left. It is an emotional rollercoaster,
but the only thing your brain knows is the abuse
it suffered, so you keep reliving it, reliving the shame,
the guilt, the fear, the heartbreak, all of these things
are just bouncing around in your head because your brain
(12:38):
doesn't know how to break free from what it's been
doing the fight or flight for lord knows how long.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So the steps that we talk about starting small.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And I'm gonna let John talk about how to start
your morning because you're in control of at least thirty
minutes to one hour of your day.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, very much. Let's talk about this a little bit
because I just I had a lot of regrets. I
had a ton of regret because I felt like, you know,
I was like, look, I'm a pretty smart guy. How
did I allow myself to be so manipulated? And it
took me several years to really to recover from the regrets.
And let me tell you, Melissa and I were talking
(13:18):
about as we're preparing for this podcast. We started laughing
because one of the red flags that I ignored, and
there were a lot of them, this was this red
flag was so big. It was like if you ever
been with one of those RV sales places and they
have these massive American flags. Yeah, that was this red
flag and I totally ignored it. So if you've ignored
(13:43):
red flags, please join the club because we all have.
We all did all right. This red flag was I
was asked to go to couples counseling. Okay, the red
flag is we weren't married yet. If you have to
go to couples cansuling before you're even married, that's a
massive red flag. And I charged right through it and
(14:03):
and I regret that to this day. So if you're
struggling with the with recovering we.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Have because of regret, shame, and all.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
These things, that's so understandable. The one of the things
that really helped me get through that was getting into
support group. That was massive because your friends and family
they just don't understand what you're going through because they
have not been there. And even a lot of therapists
they don't get it. They think they haven't lived through it.
(14:34):
You know, they want to talk about your childhood or
you know, how are your parents or whatever. They don't
understand what it was like going through an abusive relationship.
A lot of them don't like So that's why you know,
we love our eight week Life Transformational Method. It's it's
an eight week course. You're going to recover? Is it
going to take years? Or can we get it down
to a couple of months, and that's what we want
to do for you. Also, Melissa is so amazing as
(14:58):
a coach and and and can help you get through
this quicker too. Well, we both are, but Melissa's phenomenal.
I just I love hearing her testimonials from her clients.
She does such a great job. We're gonna put her
link down below two if you need help with that.
But let's get to this next question, because Babe, I
think that was what we're talking about with the first hour. Okay,
So how do I get consistent, get better at not
(15:21):
letting myself be sidetracked and make myself a priority? How
are you and John able to do that? Well? We
still do this to this day. Okay. It's about owning
the first hour of your day. If you can own
the first hour of your day, it's yours, it's not
anybody else's. If you have to get up a little
(15:41):
bit earlier so that you have that one hour of
quiet and peace, let's talk about that first hour that's
going to change your day. I call this stacking wins. Okay,
And that first hour, don't hit that news button and
lay in bed and hit this news and hit this news.
It's so bad. But a lot of time when we're
depressed and we just don't want to face the day,
(16:03):
we do that. So we've already got an l for
the day, which is a loss. We don't want to
do that. Get out of bed. First thing, drink a
big old glass of water, and now we're gonna put.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It for any other bedroom before.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Coffee or anything like that. And also another thing, don't
lay in bed and scroll through social media or look
at an email. Get out of bed, turn your phone
upside down, and go get a bunch of water. Because
your body is dehydrated from the night before a full
night's sleep. Your body's hotter, so you want to drink
twenty four ounces of water. Now we're gonna we're gonna
(16:35):
recommend a couple of things that you can add to
your water to make water, to make it taste a
little bit better. But it's called a hydration multiplier, which
makes you so you don't have to drink quite as
much water to get the same benefits it right, So
we'll put a link to that blow as well. But
and then you go into meditation, a quiet place room
where you can just be yourself and meditate for five
(16:58):
to ten minutes. It's a great way to start to day.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And you can use any type of meditation. People think
meditation is just a.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Who you just have to sit there, right, It's not that.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It can be positive affirmations. It could be prayer, it
could be calming music. Meditation is all about gaining control
of your mind and your wandering thoughts.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Because our thoughts go all over the place.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So when John's talking about turning that phone upside down
and not scroll it, I mean nothing up. Don't even
look at your phone because you will immediately become distracted
with all the noise and nonsense that's going on on
the internet.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
That's what it's for. It's to get you distracted. So
not being distracted is.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Huge, and that meditation is your way of owning your mind,
basically keeping your mind.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Basically in your control.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Whether you have to say launchras over and over again,
so it is not wandering. When it wanders, there's ways
to bring it right back to the present moment, right.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And there's some great meditation guided meditation right here on YouTube.
Oh yes, and so, and then we want to go
into prayer. If you're religious, if you're not, let's go
into some gratitude, just being thankful and affirmations for the
day before what happened, Grateful for your home or your family,
or your health, or breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Being able to do the meditat right right.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So those are those are huge things. So we're going
right into that, and then we're going to go into journaling.
Now we coach all these things in our eight week
life transformation. If you don't know how to do these things,
we're going to hold your hand through that. So don't
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Daily intentional steps that we mean holding hands.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
We don't mean oh, here's the program, just go do it.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It is daily actionable steps, intentional steps. That's how you
change the way your mind, body.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
And soul connect.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So think about that first hour. You've just stacked four
winds in a row. You got right out of bed
and got that water, you went into meditation, you went
into prayer or affirmations, and then you went into journaling.
I know it sounds like a lot if it's not
part of your routine and it's not a habit yet,
but just try to start stacking wins in that first
hour and it will change your entire day. It'll change
your entire outlook. Now let's get to one more question.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh, let me just finish this on journaling, because so
many people think journaling is you've got to sit there
and just try to write your thoughts out and stuff.
So our client right here what I asked her to
do because she was struggling. She was struggling, and our
program does have journaling prompts and things like that, and
it just takes time, just like meditation. I told her
(19:34):
to start writing out her dream destination vacation.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Where is it? Day one?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Where is this dream destination vacation that you've never been
able to take with the abusive partner and at some
place that you would absolutely just love to go. That
is your first journal write it down, data decision. Yes,
Day two, write about when gonna go? And what what
(20:01):
are you going to see that first day? These are
things that your brain is now looking at, going wow,
that's a that's an amazing vision for make days U?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, what are we gonna eat? Are you going to
be on a tour? Where are you gonna go?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Those are the things your brain is going to start
looking forward to what you are telling it about your
dream vacation And do that just.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For seven days.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
By the end of seven days, you have your entire
vacation planned out and it is one of your goals
that you will absolutely achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's huguely powerful.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Wow, And it's positive because a lot of people think
journaling is just negative. You do need to purge stuff,
but sometimes it just when you're trying to gain control
of your mind, body, and soul. It's difficult to write
a bunch of negative things out. You do need to
purge those things. But taking something positive to motivate yourself
(20:58):
motivate your brain is hugely powerful. So that's something you
can try if you haven't journaled before and you're kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Struggling with it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Right, Okay, let's get to this last question real quick.
How do I reclaim my health back? You know, abuse
causes so many negative physical and mental side effects, so
let's let's get to this. I think this is so
important if you're still in it, if you're trying to
get out, or if you're out, you've suffered your health,
and so let's talk about that. What recommendations do you
(21:29):
have for short term and long term? Okay? I love
this question because I am a fitness and nutrition fanatic.
I love talking talking to people about Yeah, I have
to lay out the.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
One laying in the bed doing Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I just like, you know, if you're prioritizing that first
hour and you're and you're really important, you got to
get eight hours of sleep. Yet, if you're struggling trying
to get those eight hours of sleep every night, and
so there's so many things that we talk about in
our eight week life Transformation method about sleeping. But real
quickly for this podcast, let's talk about that. You got
to get to sleep early every night. It's got to
(22:05):
be a dark room, it's got to be quiet. But
if you're struggling with sleep still, you still have thoughts
you can't get past. You might need a little bit
of help sleeping. And that's okay most humans, do you know,
We just have a lot. Yeah. And so what Melissa
and I do and recommend it's not pharmaceuticals. We do
not want to talk about pharmaceuticals getting addicted to sleep aids.
(22:27):
That is not right. We love a healthy sleep aid
and I take this, we both take this every night
from Healthy Cell. It's called r EM sleep.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
And it's liquid.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, it's liquid. You just drink it half hour before bedtime,
and it's got nutrients in there and things that will
help you sleep quick, go to sleep quicker, and then
go into a deeper sleep for a longer period of time.
And so I love this from Healthy Cell. We're going
to put the link.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Below the ingredients stay in your body.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's not just sleep, a zinc and there's magnesium now,
all these things that are good for your body and
start repairing your.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Body over while you're sleeping. Yeah, yeah, great thing. Also,
and then trying to focus more on the nutrition and
the food that you're putting in your body. It's so
important because you've got to put the right things in
your body to help your body fight the negative side
effects of the abuse. Okay, And we also want to
talk about getting more physically fit every day too, and
(23:26):
we can talk about that more in future podcast, but
one of the things I want to talk to you
about today is nutrition, okay, because we can't get everything
or it's hard to get everything that we that we
our body needs, especially in running around from our diet,
you know, so it's very very hard. Here's what I
do every single day. It's another Healthy Cell product. I
(23:47):
just love these because they're liquid, so your body absorbs
the more one hundred and fifty percent more than in pills. Okay,
so this is called Oh I'm sorry, I grabbed o
em sleep again. This is bioactive. This is like taking
fourteen pills everything your body needs through the day. Imagine
vitamin B. Most people don't take it right, It's got
(24:07):
everything your body needs. And we did a whole video
on this, but please look at the link below. And
we're not trying to be selly here whatever. I just
want to want to record thanks to you that we
use to stay healthy. We're living our best lives right now,
and we've tried so many different things. We're old and
we stop, babe, and we love this. So please please
(24:29):
try Bioactive by Healthy Selllement. Put the Lincoln below with
our discount code. You get twenty percent off your purchase
when you use Warrior twenty when you purchase these. And
they have so many other great products, a joint mobility,
I hear and nails and immune support because a lot
of people get sick.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
A lot one of our clients that her immune systems
really suffering. They do have a great product for building
your immune system.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right right, so they really really do. So they've got
so many great products. So we love Healthy cell and
and we just we recommend it to all our clients
just because it's something that we use every single for
you and that we love. Okay, so let's talk about
the next podcast. You have put a podcasts, So if
you haven't subscribed to this YouTube channel, we're trying so
hard to build this, so please subscribe so you get notified.
(25:16):
We're going to do a podcast every single week, and
every week we're going to talk about a certain.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Topic and that you guys talk about that you want
to hear. So in the comments, let us know what
you thought about our podcast. Let us know what you
want us to talk about issues that you're dealing with.
That's how we get a lot of our information out
to our followers is because of what people want to
(25:42):
know more about, and that's what we want to bring.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, we're here for you, so we want to know
what you want to hear from us. And also, so
please subscribe, and if you liked this podcast, please give
us thumbs up. We really hopeful that's going to help
us with the algorithms and get this message out to
more people. Last thing, please check out our website. Oh yeah,
we are so proud of our website. We worked really
(26:04):
really hard on it and it has so many so
much great information on it and so many great resources
no matter where you are on the journey. And I'm
going to put that link in the description below as well,
and it's vvtwow dot com. If you google Victim to Warrior,
all our social media channels will come up. Please follow
us there, but also please check out our website. We
are so proud of it and we hope it's going
(26:26):
to be beneficial to you and your journey.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I did want to let people know if you
have any questions or if you want to know more
details about the Gray Rock method, just email us at
info at the vtwow dot com. That's info at the
vtwow dot com so we can provide you with additional information.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
We'll put that link there, and if you want your
question answered on an upcoming podcast, please send your question
or questions to questions at the vtwow dot com. We'll
put that link in the description as well. And we
just want to thank you so much for watching this podcast.
We hope you found it informative and helpful, and just
(27:07):
remember we are here for you, and.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
So stay safe and we'll see you on episode three.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Look forward to seeing you soon.
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