August 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Thinking about divorcing a narcissist? Before you make a move, learn the 3 biggest mistakes that could cost you your freedom, finances, and peace of mind. If you’re dealing with a narcissist in divorce, this is your warning — protect yourself before they strike back. Divorcing a narcissist is not like any other breakup — it’s a psychological, emotional, and strategic battle.
In this episode of Warrior Talk, we reveal the 3 critical mistakes you MUST avoid when leaving a narcissist. These errors are often overlooked but can have devastating consequences when dealing with narcissistic abuse, covert manipulation, and emotional control.
Don’t miss out on this important information that can help you take control of your life and health.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What are the most important things not to do when
you're thinking about leaving a narcissist. Well, in this episode,
we're going to cover those critical steps, so you are
not going to want.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
To miss it.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Welcome to the Victim the Warrior Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
We're John Melissa and we're both a narcissist to give
you survivors, and our mission is to help other survivors
reclaim and rebuild their lives. Now, if you're watching us
on YouTube, welcome, but we're also streaming live on all
other platforms and we'd incorporate it mailbag, so please stated
in because it just might be your questions that we answer.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You know, I'm so excited to share this vital information
today because we just hear it week in after week out,
people making mistakes in this process that hurt them for
years afterwards. So this is so important, So please stay tuned,
And like Mellisa said, we're gonna have some mailbag questions
(01:04):
at the end. They are gonna be really important, so
stay till the end for that. So let's talk about
the most important things not to do when you're considering
leaving your narcissist.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, and honestly, that's the reason I wrote Business one
because they are the devil, so it is like you
are divorcing the devil. The evil things that they will
do are unimaginable. And I wrote this book based on
not just my own experience and the mistakes that I
made that cost me thousands and thousand toddlers, and extend
(01:39):
it the divorce three years that should have been six months.
So many and this was years and years ago, so
many things that I could have done differently. So in
this book, which I called the Divorce Bible, you don't
have to make those same mistakes. You can actually have
twenty twenty vision here and learn from what I did,
learn from what some of my clients have done, so
(02:02):
you are not making devastating mistakes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And just like John said, mistakes in.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
A divorce can last a lifetime, especially if you have children.
So these are so important, and we'll cover some of
the critical steps today. Now the book itself is published
and it's on Amazon, and we'll put the link in
the comments.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Book, right, So let's talk about that. We're going to
talk about several different things today, but the most important
critical step to not take when you decide to leave
a narcissistic what is so you tell them, you just
not tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, you cannot tell them until you are ready. The
biggest mistake that I made, in the heat of a horrible,
horrible argument, what our marriage was falling apart.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It was miserable.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I tried everything, as you all have. Nothing works because
you can't fix the unfixable. But in that heat of
that moment, I said, I can't do this anymore. I
want a divorce. And it went from screaming to silence,
and then he laughed. It was very eerie and I
didn't know what to expect, but he said, no problem,
(03:10):
cock your bags and lead.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now this was my house.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I owned this house and he's telling me to pack
my bags and leave. I'm like, you must be kidding me.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I'm not leading.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He goes, well, I don't want the divorce, so I'm
not leading. When you're married, you can't just kick your
spouse out of the marital dwelling, regardless of who owns it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I didn't know what to do because I wasn't
prepared for that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I was prepared for him to say, fine, whatever, I'll
get an attorney, but that's not.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
What he said. Well, you're not dealing with a logical purpose.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No, and I was not prepared for that war. I
was not, So that was the number one mistake I made.
That is number one not to do.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Don't tell them until.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You're ready, and it's not always verbal. Yeah you know,
Oh it's sure. You know. We talked about this in
our Red Flag Friday video. You have to be careful
that you're not sending messages, nonverbal messages that you're gone.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, like you've detached, where your personality has completely changed.
You're a narcissist knows you better than anyone, and they
know your triggerers. They know where a poor salt on
the wounds. They know how to love bomb you.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Hoover you.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They are mastercial media layers control you. So the change
in attitude and that detachment sometimes also backfires because then
they suspect you're up to something, and they'll go about
it two different ways. They'll either all of a sudden
start acting nice, do something sweet, agree to something that
you've begged them to do, and then you're like, huh, well, well,
(04:43):
maybe maybe they realize that they're you know, they're a
huge part of this problem and they're willing to work
on it. Falls or they'll plan something behind your back
and hit you with it when you're not ready.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Right, So verbal and nonverbal everything needs to say status quo. Yes,
allow of your planning. So let's talk about that. Number two,
The most important thing to not do is to do
this kind of willy nilly and I'm just going to
kind of figure it out as I go. Now, No, no.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
No, you have to have a plan of action. And
when your brain is literally in this fog I call
it because you have been in fight or flight mode
for the whole relationship. Basically you cannot think logically. Why
try to get yourself in such an anxiety ridden state?
(05:34):
Just follow the steps. John and I did an entire
webinar called the twelve critical Steps to take before you leave.
And when I say they're critical, they are critical. So
you have to have a plan, follow the steps, exercise
the plan, and then you can start making logical decisions
(05:55):
on the next course of action.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You know what I love about the twelve critical step
it's it we Also, it comes with a checklist. You
just check them off as you go. Think about the
day before you leave for a vacation. You're kind of
stressed out. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, what are
we going to do? Will you create a list?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I got to get my passport, you got to get
my dry clean. You got to make sure the plane
leaves on time. You know, I got to get my
ride to the airport. But you and you go down
your checklist so that you make sure I've got everything packed,
everything is ready to go. You're leaving forever or this
is a forever thing. Yeah, So having a list is critical,
but it brings your anxiety level down so that you
(06:34):
can think clearly and you really don't have to think
if you just follow the items on the checklist, they're
so well.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Plus, it starts allowing your brain to start making logical decisions.
When you start reading something and actually writing and doing
the action, your brain is following along with what you
are telling it to do. When you're in an abusive
narcissistic relationship long term.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Your body has no clue what to do.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It is following your brain, which is on cortisol overload,
and so it's making anxiety ridden decisions. This is a
chance for you to actually start turning that around and
start making logical decisions, which, believe me, when you are
wanting to divorce a narcissist, you have to think logically.
So going with a checklist is definitely a step in
(07:24):
the right direction. Now, what is the fair thing?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Not fair things not do? It's hire an attorney that
you know nothing about or a friend referred them, or
I've heard good things about this attorney. No, you have
to use the attorney interview checklist that Melissa provides you
with those critical says. Now, those critical steps. But we
(07:51):
hear this almost every week. Yeah, probably, Yeah, we have
a client going through a divorce when what's his divorcing
coach coach program and they have hired the wrong attorney.
But guess what, it's too late. Once you realize that
it's too late, you've given them all your money for
a retainer. You can't change. At that point, you're too
far down the road. So hiring the right attorney who
(08:13):
understands narcissistic behavior is critical. I can't state this enough.
It has ruined so many people's lives by having the
wrong representation, So it's absolutely critical that you do.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It cost me thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars
by hiring I actually got my attorney referred to me
by the prosecutor who prosecuted at my ex has.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Been for domestic violence and assault.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And what he said to me is he said, this
guy's a shark in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well that's one thing, but.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
If it takes you three years to get to the courtroom,
then you could be financially devastated by then. And that's
what your nard wants. They want to beat you down
to where you're just giving in. You're giving up your right,
you're giving up your marital assets or giving up potential
UH support. So when you hired the right attorney. And
(09:07):
this is honestly the reason I got my Certified Divorce
Coaching certificate is because I want it to be able
to help people not make the same mistakes that I made,
and so many of our clients who don't who get
to me too late.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do legal research in your state, and I can help
you choose the right attorney. We will together go through
the attorney interview questionnaire. If they can't answer those questions,
they don't understand narcissism and understanding it and not falling
victim to their manipulative games. Because think about everybody who's
falling victim to their manipulative games. You people on the outside,
(09:48):
it's no different than them manipulating their own attorney, ye
or your atturn.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, they pull the exact same stuff that they've been
pulling for years in the court's delayed tactics, seem firing
attorneys that have to hire another one for another delay.
These delays go on and on and on, trying to
break you, right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Trying to break you.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So getting that attorney that understands not to play these
games and to shut those things down immediately, we'll save
you so much time, money, and heartache.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So hiring the right attorney is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Okay. Yeah, So we've covered three really really important topics
and again that twelve critical steps, and that includes twelve
critical things to do throughout this important things to protect yourself,
your safety, make sure you're not being tracked, you know,
get the po box all freezing your credit. I mean
so many money right right, So I'm gonna put the
(10:43):
links to all of these fantastic resources in the description below.
We're about the mail back, So hold.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
On, Well, I want to talk about one more thing
THO is got a critical and.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That is courtroom preparation.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Oh my gosh, this is so because you are a
bag of nerves even though you go through the critical steps,
because you are now prepared, You've gotten the documentation, you've
done all the critical steps that we've been talking.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
About, so you are ready.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Art Mentally, physically, emotionally might be a different situation. So
one of the things that I do with my clients
is role playing because you are going to be tormented
on that stand. And I'm not trying to scare you,
but you really need to take take key to this
because a judge may or may not understand narcissism.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, So if you're on the.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Stand and you start breaking down emotionally and you're not
able to speak clearly you're not able to they're going
to try to trip you up.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
They're going to try to make you.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Look That's like a rosing council's job.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
That is their job to make you look unstable, to
make you look emotional, to make you look potentially like
you are lyne not in control. It's very difficult to
maintain that type of posture if you're not prepared for
that type of war. So going through role playing, it's
it is uncomfortable because I'm going to act like the
(12:04):
other attorney. But that's what you need. You need to
know what to expect. So you need to know how.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To prepare an answer.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, it's rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It is rehearsal, and it gives you a chance to
think about I'm speaking the truth, so I don't need
to be emotionally upset about the truth.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
You just need to be clear and concise.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
If they pushy, take a breath, all of these things
we talk about, they can't rush a answer.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Out of you, right.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So these are the things that we go through to
help you prepare. And it is huge because you don't
want to do all these critical steps and then get
on the stand and absolutely lose it because you're not
prepared well.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And that's why I love the way you coach your clients.
This is how you answer these questions. If they start
doing this, this is how you do this, because they'll
put words in your house exactly. This is the first
time you've been in a situation like this, and so
you don't know how to do it and and or
how to answer these questions or how to deal with
this onslaught of lies that are coming at you combatively.
(13:07):
So you have to know how to do that, and
Morris it does such a great job with role playing
with her clients and really getting them so that when
they do get on the stand, they're nice and calm
and cool and collect and they just go right through it. Yeah,
and it's just it, and it's it is.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Big because so many people think if you.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
If you show all these emotions on the stand, they'll know,
they'll be able to see your pain. Unfortunately, if a
judge doesn't understand narcissism, they just see it as you
being very emotional and potentially looking for sympathy, and that
is really harsh because you've already gone through so much.
So having control of your emotions to the best of
(13:47):
your ability, being prepared well, it will be so much
better for you. You'll feel better about yourself, you'll feel
better about being cross examined, and you will know you
are speaking the truth and no one wanting to be
able to put words in your mouth that are not
the truth. Because narcissists lie. They lie to everyone. They've
lied to their attorney. Their attorney may or may not
(14:08):
believe them, but it's the attorney's job to represent them
and to push those lying narratives so it's our job
to coach you to not be sucked into that.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, I think that's why you what by the
time you eventually got to court, you did so well
and got a very nice judgment that, of course go
By Melissa never saw.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But he didn't get anything.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But he did get any he'd got nothing. And so,
but it was because of the way she hammed herself.
Two day's trial, two day trial, and she was on
the stand for hours and hours, and so she was
totally prepared and knew everything, which I know you'll know everything,
but we know how to convey it proper writing That.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Is not enough backtracking, because they will try to put
words in your mouth. They will try to answer questions
for you that actually set a false narrator, right, and
those are the things you know you need to know
how to combat because there are just little tricks and
tips that you can do that will shut that line
of questioning down right. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
So we've got Melissa's book that we're going to rep
at the leak Low, very inexpensive bible. It wrote everything there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And it Honestly, all of my books are not scientific explorations.
They tell you what you're going through they validate your feelings.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But these are.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Guides and work books. They are step by step things
explaining what happened, this is what you do about it,
and they all come with actually with work. You can
write in these books so you can take notes, but
make sure you keep it locked.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Un Lensley, do want to end hid in this right
out and the twelve critical steps to take before you leave.
It's a ninety minute recorded webinar with your your downloadable checklist.
And we also I want to put Melissa's colleague below
for heirs. She's a certified divorce coach. I want to
put her colleague below with a discount code Recovery twenty
five to receive from five dollars off your earsial call
(16:01):
with Melissa. And also you know that that prep that preparation,
pre trial preparation is so critical. So because that's the
goualt is getting to trial eventually so that you can
tell your side of the story and get what is
you deserve and what rightfully deserve through your state laws.
So let's get the mailbag. How about that? Okay, So
we're gonna put all those links below.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Now these questions actually fall right into play because we
did a video about my book, and these actually came
up from a couple of the comments on that video.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So he's are great, I might try to read these
without my glasses. So well, I'm may have to read it.
What do I do during our pre divorced co parenting
meetings with the guardian OUTLTOM when he when the narcissist
continues to lie and make me look unfit? Wow, and
it will happen.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
As far as you you do have to go through
copearenting glasses. If you have children together, the court's going
to make you do this. The best thing for you
to do before you go to this first class is
to document behaviors patterns, because you will start noticing things
that your child is doing differently, whether it's them staying
(17:19):
up all night at the narcissis's house and then you
try to get them back on schedule in your house
and you're having this war with the child. Documenting everything
date and time, documenting behaviors, documenting missed appointments, documenting.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Miss school emails.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
We always restriction oh big time.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
We always recommend using a co parenting app. We recommend
our Family Wizard they're amazing because it takes that guest
game out of it. It takes the lies out of
it because you have to communicate through an app which
the guarding netl item can actually be part of, so
they can see both sides and you don't get roped
into these emotional circles where they're trying to trap you
(18:06):
and getting upset during a co parenting session doesn't work
well for you. So because they're going to be calm,
they'll be the victim.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
They'll be the one.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Who's you're trying to rip their children from them, and
they can play that part like an Academy Award winning
actor where your emotions are all.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Over the place.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You have to be prepared going into these meetings. Before
the first one, write down every single thing you're responsible for.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
With the children.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
What are your job duties, what have you done during
the marriage, what do you still do, and then what
are the sum to be exes. Have that with you,
because when you talk about you're bringing them to school,
you go to their extracurrictal activity, you bring to the doctors,
you have them with their helmework, all of that hygiene,
(18:59):
all of that makes a big difference. If you have
any witnesses that you want to actually be brought in.
You may or may not be able to bring them
into these meetings, but you can actually give the Guardian
their names and they can actually club them. And it
could be somebody you call in court.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Most likely it will be.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But being prepared writing things down, stay in calm. When
they make an accusation that you know is a lie,
just close your eyes, take a deep breath, and answer
truthfully or counter truthfully. You've got all your notes right there,
so you could go back and say, well, no, that
actually is not true. Because of this looking and being
(19:40):
prepared helps the guardian understand that this is important to you.
You're trying to stay focused. Your children are a priority
and you have done everything in your power to make
sure they are cared for, and you want to keep
that control. You don't want to lose that control because
you're looking emotionally unfit or like you can't control yourself.
(20:04):
You're yelling, spreaving things like your emotions.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Want you to do. Yeah, and it's hard to answer
their lives or are fund their lives if you're not prepared.
If you're not prepared, you don't have your listener and some.
Melissa is phenomenal with that. One other thing I love
about Our Family Wizard is it allows you to stay
no contact everywhere else and everything is recorded through Our
Family Wizard. So you're not going to get those berating
text messages or the lies or all the other things.
(20:27):
All those are recorded within the within the platform.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So it's so they do all of that.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's recorded in the platform, and you can actually use
it in court. So that's hard sometimes for a narcissist
to keep their cool right, and they may lose it
on Our Family Wizard, but it actually carry.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, and I'll put the link for Our Family Wizard blows.
You just click on that and see everything about this app.
It's fantastic, really okay. Question number two, how do I
keep from losing it on the stand when his attorney
is a bully and they will be.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, And we kind of talked about that. Just that's
a great question because we just talked about that. Being
prepared and doing the role play. I can't tell you
how important it is. I know with the situation that
I was in because it went on so long, all
of the content charges he filed against me, he basically
(21:21):
was trying to get me to admit something that was
absolutely not true. My ax had fraudulent companies. I had
nothing to do with them. But his attorney kept trying
to trip me up and trap me into saying that
I was a business partner and I went the company money.
But I was not an officer, I wasn't a partner.
(21:43):
I didn't run it. I had no access to anything,
and so he kept trying to make me say that
I was the partner.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
He goes, but you're married.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I said, well, being married, does it make me a
business partner.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's a huge point because I know a lot of
us who have never been on the stand before or
don't have a lot of experience, don't understand. We have
rights on the stand too. There's certain things and your
attorney hopefully will defend you or object when certain things
are going on and protect you when you're on the stand, right,
But you can't rely on that now. So you have
to understand. And Melissa is great with this. So let
me know that this is a line you don't need
(22:17):
to cross, or and you can say, hey, listen, I'm
not going to answer that, or we're not going to
go down that road. But in such a way. That's
a professional, right way to do it in a.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Courture and they may ask you something.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
He asked me that question five different ways, and I
answered it the same way.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Every time.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We are not in business together, I am not a
business partner.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
We're married.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
That doesn't make me a business partner. I said that,
And finally the judge said, move on, counselor. But he
kept trying to make it look like I would be
responsible for all the tax lanes, for the lawsuits and
people suing him because of the fraudulent businesses. I wasn't
part of it, and I was not about to be
roped into any of me.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So you have to stay firm, right.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
And that's what their job is. You opposing counsel is
to trip you up, is to get you to say
things that may or may not be the way that
you want them to come out, but they come out
just in the eat of the moment or emotionally or whatever.
And so that's why it's so critical to prep for that. So, gosh,
we've covered so much great information in this podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And we appreciate you you joining, and.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
No, but and so for next week, you know we
have one new podcast every week. Please send us your
questions that you want us to read on the podcast
and not only to help you, but help everyone else,
like who's listening to this, So just send us on
your questions at questions at the v twow dot com.
I'm gonna put that email address below as well, and
(23:39):
I'll also put our website in there so you can
see that if you haven't seen that yet. But we're
so gratefully you've been here today, and yeah
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But subscribe to please subscribe and like this video and
we hope to see you on our next episode
What are the most important things not to do when
you're thinking about leaving a narcissist. Well, in this episode,
we're going to cover those critical steps, so you are
not going to want.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
To miss it.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Welcome to the Victim the Warrior Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
We're John Melissa and we're both a narcissist to give
you survivors, and our mission is to help other survivors
reclaim and rebuild their lives. Now, if you're watching us
on YouTube, welcome, but we're also streaming live on all
other platforms and we'd incorporate it mailbag, so please stated
in because it just might be your questions that we answer.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You know, I'm so excited to share this vital information
today because we just hear it week in after week out,
people making mistakes in this process that hurt them for
years afterwards. So this is so important, So please stay tuned,
And like Mellisa said, we're gonna have some mailbag questions
(01:04):
at the end. They are gonna be really important, so
stay till the end for that. So let's talk about
the most important things not to do when you're considering
leaving your narcissist.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, and honestly, that's the reason I wrote Business one
because they are the devil, so it is like you
are divorcing the devil. The evil things that they will
do are unimaginable. And I wrote this book based on
not just my own experience and the mistakes that I
made that cost me thousands and thousand toddlers, and extend
(01:39):
it the divorce three years that should have been six months.
So many and this was years and years ago, so
many things that I could have done differently. So in
this book, which I called the Divorce Bible, you don't
have to make those same mistakes. You can actually have
twenty twenty vision here and learn from what I did,
learn from what some of my clients have done, so
(02:02):
you are not making devastating mistakes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And just like John said, mistakes in.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
A divorce can last a lifetime, especially if you have children.
So these are so important, and we'll cover some of
the critical steps today. Now the book itself is published
and it's on Amazon, and we'll put the link in
the comments.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Book, right, So let's talk about that. We're going to
talk about several different things today, but the most important
critical step to not take when you decide to leave
a narcissistic what is so you tell them, you just
not tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, you cannot tell them until you are ready. The
biggest mistake that I made, in the heat of a horrible,
horrible argument, what our marriage was falling apart.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It was miserable.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I tried everything, as you all have. Nothing works because
you can't fix the unfixable. But in that heat of
that moment, I said, I can't do this anymore. I
want a divorce. And it went from screaming to silence,
and then he laughed. It was very eerie and I
didn't know what to expect, but he said, no problem,
(03:10):
cock your bags and lead.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now this was my house.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I owned this house and he's telling me to pack
my bags and leave. I'm like, you must be kidding me.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I'm not leading.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He goes, well, I don't want the divorce, so I'm
not leading. When you're married, you can't just kick your
spouse out of the marital dwelling, regardless of who owns it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I didn't know what to do because I wasn't
prepared for that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I was prepared for him to say, fine, whatever, I'll
get an attorney, but that's not.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
What he said. Well, you're not dealing with a logical purpose.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No, and I was not prepared for that war. I
was not, So that was the number one mistake I made.
That is number one not to do.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Don't tell them until.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You're ready, and it's not always verbal. Yeah you know,
Oh it's sure. You know. We talked about this in
our Red Flag Friday video. You have to be careful
that you're not sending messages, nonverbal messages that you're gone.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, like you've detached, where your personality has completely changed.
You're a narcissist knows you better than anyone, and they
know your triggerers. They know where a poor salt on
the wounds. They know how to love bomb you.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Hoover you.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
They are mastercial media layers control you. So the change
in attitude and that detachment sometimes also backfires because then
they suspect you're up to something, and they'll go about
it two different ways. They'll either all of a sudden
start acting nice, do something sweet, agree to something that
you've begged them to do, and then you're like, huh, well, well,
(04:43):
maybe maybe they realize that they're you know, they're a
huge part of this problem and they're willing to work
on it. Falls or they'll plan something behind your back
and hit you with it when you're not ready.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Right, So verbal and nonverbal everything needs to say status quo. Yes,
allow of your planning. So let's talk about that. Number two,
The most important thing to not do is to do
this kind of willy nilly and I'm just going to
kind of figure it out as I go. Now, No, no.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
No, you have to have a plan of action. And
when your brain is literally in this fog I call
it because you have been in fight or flight mode
for the whole relationship. Basically you cannot think logically. Why
try to get yourself in such an anxiety ridden state?
(05:34):
Just follow the steps. John and I did an entire
webinar called the twelve critical Steps to take before you leave.
And when I say they're critical, they are critical. So
you have to have a plan, follow the steps, exercise
the plan, and then you can start making logical decisions
(05:55):
on the next course of action.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You know what I love about the twelve critical step
it's it we Also, it comes with a checklist. You
just check them off as you go. Think about the
day before you leave for a vacation. You're kind of
stressed out. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, what are
we going to do? Will you create a list?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I got to get my passport, you got to get
my dry clean. You got to make sure the plane
leaves on time. You know, I got to get my
ride to the airport. But you and you go down
your checklist so that you make sure I've got everything packed,
everything is ready to go. You're leaving forever or this
is a forever thing. Yeah, So having a list is critical,
but it brings your anxiety level down so that you
(06:34):
can think clearly and you really don't have to think
if you just follow the items on the checklist, they're
so well.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Plus, it starts allowing your brain to start making logical decisions.
When you start reading something and actually writing and doing
the action, your brain is following along with what you
are telling it to do. When you're in an abusive
narcissistic relationship long term.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Your body has no clue what to do.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It is following your brain, which is on cortisol overload,
and so it's making anxiety ridden decisions. This is a
chance for you to actually start turning that around and
start making logical decisions, which, believe me, when you are
wanting to divorce a narcissist, you have to think logically.
So going with a checklist is definitely a step in
(07:24):
the right direction. Now, what is the fair thing?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Not fair things not do? It's hire an attorney that
you know nothing about or a friend referred them, or
I've heard good things about this attorney. No, you have
to use the attorney interview checklist that Melissa provides you
with those critical says. Now, those critical steps. But we
(07:51):
hear this almost every week. Yeah, probably, Yeah, we have
a client going through a divorce when what's his divorcing
coach coach program and they have hired the wrong attorney.
But guess what, it's too late. Once you realize that
it's too late, you've given them all your money for
a retainer. You can't change. At that point, you're too
far down the road. So hiring the right attorney who
(08:13):
understands narcissistic behavior is critical. I can't state this enough.
It has ruined so many people's lives by having the
wrong representation, So it's absolutely critical that you do.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It cost me thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars
by hiring I actually got my attorney referred to me
by the prosecutor who prosecuted at my ex has.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Been for domestic violence and assault.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And what he said to me is he said, this
guy's a shark in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well that's one thing, but.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
If it takes you three years to get to the courtroom,
then you could be financially devastated by then. And that's
what your nard wants. They want to beat you down
to where you're just giving in. You're giving up your right,
you're giving up your marital assets or giving up potential
UH support. So when you hired the right attorney. And
(09:07):
this is honestly the reason I got my Certified Divorce
Coaching certificate is because I want it to be able
to help people not make the same mistakes that I made,
and so many of our clients who don't who get
to me too late.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Do legal research in your state, and I can help
you choose the right attorney. We will together go through
the attorney interview questionnaire. If they can't answer those questions,
they don't understand narcissism and understanding it and not falling
victim to their manipulative games. Because think about everybody who's
falling victim to their manipulative games. You people on the outside,
(09:48):
it's no different than them manipulating their own attorney, ye
or your atturn.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, they pull the exact same stuff that they've been
pulling for years in the court's delayed tactics, seem firing
attorneys that have to hire another one for another delay.
These delays go on and on and on, trying to
break you, right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Trying to break you.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So getting that attorney that understands not to play these
games and to shut those things down immediately, we'll save
you so much time, money, and heartache.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So hiring the right attorney is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Okay. Yeah, So we've covered three really really important topics
and again that twelve critical steps, and that includes twelve
critical things to do throughout this important things to protect yourself,
your safety, make sure you're not being tracked, you know,
get the po box all freezing your credit. I mean
so many money right right, So I'm gonna put the
(10:43):
links to all of these fantastic resources in the description below.
We're about the mail back, So hold.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
On, Well, I want to talk about one more thing
THO is got a critical and.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That is courtroom preparation.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Oh my gosh, this is so because you are a
bag of nerves even though you go through the critical steps,
because you are now prepared, You've gotten the documentation, you've
done all the critical steps that we've been talking.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
About, so you are ready.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Art Mentally, physically, emotionally might be a different situation. So
one of the things that I do with my clients
is role playing because you are going to be tormented
on that stand. And I'm not trying to scare you,
but you really need to take take key to this
because a judge may or may not understand narcissism.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, So if you're on the.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Stand and you start breaking down emotionally and you're not
able to speak clearly you're not able to they're going
to try to trip you up.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
They're going to try to make you.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Look That's like a rosing council's job.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
That is their job to make you look unstable, to
make you look emotional, to make you look potentially like
you are lyne not in control. It's very difficult to
maintain that type of posture if you're not prepared for
that type of war. So going through role playing, it's
it is uncomfortable because I'm going to act like the
(12:04):
other attorney. But that's what you need. You need to
know what to expect. So you need to know how.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To prepare an answer.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, it's rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It is rehearsal, and it gives you a chance to
think about I'm speaking the truth, so I don't need
to be emotionally upset about the truth.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
You just need to be clear and concise.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
If they pushy, take a breath, all of these things
we talk about, they can't rush a answer.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Out of you, right.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So these are the things that we go through to
help you prepare. And it is huge because you don't
want to do all these critical steps and then get
on the stand and absolutely lose it because you're not
prepared well.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And that's why I love the way you coach your clients.
This is how you answer these questions. If they start
doing this, this is how you do this, because they'll
put words in your house exactly. This is the first
time you've been in a situation like this, and so
you don't know how to do it and and or
how to answer these questions or how to deal with
this onslaught of lies that are coming at you combatively.
(13:07):
So you have to know how to do that, and
Morris it does such a great job with role playing
with her clients and really getting them so that when
they do get on the stand, they're nice and calm
and cool and collect and they just go right through it. Yeah,
and it's just it, and it's it is.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Big because so many people think if you.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
If you show all these emotions on the stand, they'll know,
they'll be able to see your pain. Unfortunately, if a
judge doesn't understand narcissism, they just see it as you
being very emotional and potentially looking for sympathy, and that
is really harsh because you've already gone through so much.
So having control of your emotions to the best of
(13:47):
your ability, being prepared well, it will be so much
better for you. You'll feel better about yourself, you'll feel
better about being cross examined, and you will know you
are speaking the truth and no one wanting to be
able to put words in your mouth that are not
the truth. Because narcissists lie. They lie to everyone. They've
lied to their attorney. Their attorney may or may not
(14:08):
believe them, but it's the attorney's job to represent them
and to push those lying narratives so it's our job
to coach you to not be sucked into that.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, I think that's why you what by the
time you eventually got to court, you did so well
and got a very nice judgment that, of course go
By Melissa never saw.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But he didn't get anything.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But he did get any he'd got nothing. And so,
but it was because of the way she hammed herself.
Two day's trial, two day trial, and she was on
the stand for hours and hours, and so she was
totally prepared and knew everything, which I know you'll know everything,
but we know how to convey it proper writing That.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Is not enough backtracking, because they will try to put
words in your mouth. They will try to answer questions
for you that actually set a false narrator, right, and
those are the things you know you need to know
how to combat because there are just little tricks and
tips that you can do that will shut that line
of questioning down right. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
So we've got Melissa's book that we're going to rep
at the leak Low, very inexpensive bible. It wrote everything there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And it Honestly, all of my books are not scientific explorations.
They tell you what you're going through they validate your feelings.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But these are.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Guides and work books. They are step by step things
explaining what happened, this is what you do about it,
and they all come with actually with work. You can
write in these books so you can take notes, but
make sure you keep it locked.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Un Lensley, do want to end hid in this right
out and the twelve critical steps to take before you leave.
It's a ninety minute recorded webinar with your your downloadable checklist.
And we also I want to put Melissa's colleague below
for heirs. She's a certified divorce coach. I want to
put her colleague below with a discount code Recovery twenty
five to receive from five dollars off your earsial call
(16:01):
with Melissa. And also you know that that prep that preparation,
pre trial preparation is so critical. So because that's the
goualt is getting to trial eventually so that you can
tell your side of the story and get what is
you deserve and what rightfully deserve through your state laws.
So let's get the mailbag. How about that? Okay, So
we're gonna put all those links below.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Now these questions actually fall right into play because we
did a video about my book, and these actually came
up from a couple of the comments on that video.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So he's are great, I might try to read these
without my glasses. So well, I'm may have to read it.
What do I do during our pre divorced co parenting
meetings with the guardian OUTLTOM when he when the narcissist
continues to lie and make me look unfit? Wow, and
it will happen.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
As far as you you do have to go through
copearenting glasses. If you have children together, the court's going
to make you do this. The best thing for you
to do before you go to this first class is
to document behaviors patterns, because you will start noticing things
that your child is doing differently, whether it's them staying
(17:19):
up all night at the narcissis's house and then you
try to get them back on schedule in your house
and you're having this war with the child. Documenting everything
date and time, documenting behaviors, documenting missed appointments, documenting.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Miss school emails.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
We always restriction oh big time.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
We always recommend using a co parenting app. We recommend
our Family Wizard they're amazing because it takes that guest
game out of it. It takes the lies out of
it because you have to communicate through an app which
the guarding netl item can actually be part of, so
they can see both sides and you don't get roped
into these emotional circles where they're trying to trap you
(18:06):
and getting upset during a co parenting session doesn't work
well for you. So because they're going to be calm,
they'll be the victim.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
They'll be the one.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Who's you're trying to rip their children from them, and
they can play that part like an Academy Award winning
actor where your emotions are all.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Over the place.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You have to be prepared going into these meetings. Before
the first one, write down every single thing you're responsible for.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
With the children.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
What are your job duties, what have you done during
the marriage, what do you still do, and then what
are the sum to be exes. Have that with you,
because when you talk about you're bringing them to school,
you go to their extracurrictal activity, you bring to the doctors,
you have them with their helmework, all of that hygiene,
(18:59):
all of that makes a big difference. If you have
any witnesses that you want to actually be brought in.
You may or may not be able to bring them
into these meetings, but you can actually give the Guardian
their names and they can actually club them. And it
could be somebody you call in court.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Most likely it will be.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But being prepared writing things down, stay in calm. When
they make an accusation that you know is a lie,
just close your eyes, take a deep breath, and answer
truthfully or counter truthfully. You've got all your notes right there,
so you could go back and say, well, no, that
actually is not true. Because of this looking and being
(19:40):
prepared helps the guardian understand that this is important to you.
You're trying to stay focused. Your children are a priority
and you have done everything in your power to make
sure they are cared for, and you want to keep
that control. You don't want to lose that control because
you're looking emotionally unfit or like you can't control yourself.
(20:04):
You're yelling, spreaving things like your emotions.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Want you to do. Yeah, and it's hard to answer
their lives or are fund their lives if you're not prepared.
If you're not prepared, you don't have your listener and some.
Melissa is phenomenal with that. One other thing I love
about Our Family Wizard is it allows you to stay
no contact everywhere else and everything is recorded through Our
Family Wizard. So you're not going to get those berating
text messages or the lies or all the other things.
(20:27):
All those are recorded within the within the platform.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So it's so they do all of that.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's recorded in the platform, and you can actually use
it in court. So that's hard sometimes for a narcissist
to keep their cool right, and they may lose it
on Our Family Wizard, but it actually carry.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, and I'll put the link for Our Family Wizard blows.
You just click on that and see everything about this app.
It's fantastic, really okay. Question number two, how do I
keep from losing it on the stand when his attorney
is a bully and they will be.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, And we kind of talked about that. Just that's
a great question because we just talked about that. Being
prepared and doing the role play. I can't tell you
how important it is. I know with the situation that
I was in because it went on so long, all
of the content charges he filed against me, he basically
(21:21):
was trying to get me to admit something that was
absolutely not true. My ax had fraudulent companies. I had
nothing to do with them. But his attorney kept trying
to trip me up and trap me into saying that
I was a business partner and I went the company money.
But I was not an officer, I wasn't a partner.
(21:43):
I didn't run it. I had no access to anything,
and so he kept trying to make me say that
I was the partner.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
He goes, but you're married.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I said, well, being married, does it make me a
business partner.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's a huge point because I know a lot of
us who have never been on the stand before or
don't have a lot of experience, don't understand. We have
rights on the stand too. There's certain things and your
attorney hopefully will defend you or object when certain things
are going on and protect you when you're on the stand, right,
But you can't rely on that now. So you have
to understand. And Melissa is great with this. So let
me know that this is a line you don't need
(22:17):
to cross, or and you can say, hey, listen, I'm
not going to answer that, or we're not going to
go down that road. But in such a way. That's
a professional, right way to do it in a.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Courture and they may ask you something.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
He asked me that question five different ways, and I
answered it the same way.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Every time.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We are not in business together, I am not a
business partner.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
We're married.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
That doesn't make me a business partner. I said that,
And finally the judge said, move on, counselor. But he
kept trying to make it look like I would be
responsible for all the tax lanes, for the lawsuits and
people suing him because of the fraudulent businesses. I wasn't
part of it, and I was not about to be
roped into any of me.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So you have to stay firm, right.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
And that's what their job is. You opposing counsel is
to trip you up, is to get you to say
things that may or may not be the way that
you want them to come out, but they come out
just in the eat of the moment or emotionally or whatever.
And so that's why it's so critical to prep for that. So, gosh,
we've covered so much great information in this podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And we appreciate you you joining, and.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
No, but and so for next week, you know we
have one new podcast every week. Please send us your
questions that you want us to read on the podcast
and not only to help you, but help everyone else,
like who's listening to this, So just send us on
your questions at questions at the v twow dot com.
I'm gonna put that email address below as well, and
(23:39):
I'll also put our website in there so you can
see that if you haven't seen that yet. But we're
so gratefully you've been here today, and yeah
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But subscribe to please subscribe and like this video and
we hope to see you on our next episode
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