June 17, 2025 • 29 mins
Jason reacts to Game 5 of the NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. He starts by diving into Thunder star Jalen Williams’ 40-point performance and how his consistency has helped OKC up until this point take a 3-2 lead in the series. Jason discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's floor game and how it has impacted his best two performances in Game 5 and Game 2, respectively. Jason also praises Chet Holmgren the OKC defense as a whole in the fourth quarters of these Finals games. Next he discusses Pacers star Tyrese Haliburton's struggles, and how he believes it is disingenuous to blame his poor game on his injury as there have been more instances of him no-showing in the playoffs. Jason wraps up discussing Myles Turner and his belief that Rick Carlisle is not putting his big man in advantageous positions defensively.
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co slash audio. Wellcome to tonight. You're at the Vallume
(02:01):
Havy Tuesday. Everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
a great start too a week. We are going to
be talking a little bit about Game five of the
NBA Finals today. I want to get into some of
the content, some of the specific angles from the game
that we didn't get to get into Last Night with Colin,
so we're gonna be breaking that down. I want to
at I want to dive into a little bit looking
forward in the series, what I expect to happen in
(02:22):
Game six. I want to talk about some of the
specific areas where the Pacers have lost control of this series,
specific swing factor, some of which we discussed coming into
the series, tests that Indiana had to pass in order
to thrive in this particular matchup. Lots of stuff we
want to get into in the NBA Finals. You guys
know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to the
Hoops Tonight YouTube channel. You don't miss any more of
(02:43):
our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore JSNLTS. You
guysn't miss announcement. So forget about a podcast feed where
you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super
helpful if you leave your rating in a review on
that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media
feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys
follow us there. The last but not least, if you
guys want to get mailed back questions in in our
live shows. But our next live show is on Thursday night.
(03:04):
Just show up to the live show, drop your questions
in the chat, then we'll get it to the mail
bag at the tail end of the show, and then
obviously once we get out of the finals, will shift
back towards taking them from the YouTube contents. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So last night was the J
Dubbs Show. We talked a little bit about it last
night with Colin Coward. I focused on the idea of
his downhill power and kind of in the context of
(03:25):
what we saw TJ McConnell succeed with the general idea
being that there's a lot of handsy, physical defense on
the perimeter in the NBA playoffs and big, strong players
tend to thrive in those settings. I don't think it's
a coincidence. As you look back through NBA history, the
best player on championship teams has been a power player
in basically every single series for the last decade and
(03:48):
a half, other than Steph you know, like you Obviously
last year for the Celtics, it was more of like
a bi committee by a kind of thing. But who
was the best player for the Celtics in the playoffs
in terms of of you know, winning Eastern Conference Finals
MVP and Finals MVP. It was Jalen Brown a power player,
even Tatum in his contributions as a defensive player and
(04:08):
as a playmaker in that in that playoff run power,
Luka Doncic was the best player in that postseason power
Right twenty twenty three, Nikole Jokic Power twenty twenty two. Obviously,
Steph He's your exception twenty twenty one, Giannis Power twenty twenty,
Lebron Power twenty nineteen, Kawhi Power. We can go back
throughout time and you're going to see a pretty consistent
(04:30):
trend of like Steph Curry being the exception, the one
kind of like finesse perimeter oriented player that thrives in
these settings. But it's a lot of power that thrives here.
Last night, Jadob had forty points right, but nineteen of
those forty points came either in transition runouts or backdoor cuts.
(04:51):
His cutting was incredibly impressive last night. I counted four
separate buckets and nine points total because he had an
and one on one with Nie Smith, or he just
backdoor like just beat like red the defender saw that
he was in denial and just cut really hard back door,
using that power physical swim move to get around the
defender and ended up getting easy stuff at the basket.
He did some beautiful work out of ball screens too
(05:13):
in the fourth quarter, showcasing similar downhill force in both
actions attacking bigs and guards. But he got himself into
a rhythm in this game because that stuff didn't happen
until late late in the game, Like, he got himself
into a rhythm just by using his Basketball IQ to
identify runways opportunities for him to get ahead of steam
(05:35):
without the ball, a transition lane, a back door cut opportunity.
Those are areas where in a system like this where
the ball, you know, I think the ball will shift
towards being in Jdubb's hands more and more over the
years as he improves and as Shay kind of like
starts to feel a little bit more of like an
open partnership with Jdubb. But even in that context, it's
(05:59):
going to be useful for him to be a weapon
off the ball, and in this context it's a super
valuable weapon. And he did a ton of damage in
this game again, nineteen of his forty points literally just
running lanes right then he tied it all together with
his jump shooting, which is really the piece that separates
him from the other similar types of playmaking forwards in
(06:20):
the league. He had three open catch and shoot threes
that were all very important last night. That little right
shoulder fade, that classic Dwayne Wade half spin right at
the top of the key, that was kind of the
cherry on top of his finals masterpiece. But we just
don't have very many players in the league that bring
the combination of downhill power, high level playmaking, and high
(06:41):
level shooting. Right you look at Paolo. He brings some
high level shooting at least from the mid range, and
he brings a lot of power, but he can be
a little bit of a tunnel vision guy that can
struggle to make the kickout Raads Franz Wagner another kind
of big forward. He brings the high level playmaking and
he brings the downhill power, but his jump shot is
like an absolute adventure and in many case is downright bad.
(07:01):
Jaylen Brown a little bit inconsistent as a jump shooter,
but I think he brings that jump shooting piece, and
he brings the downhill power piece, but he can struggle
to process the defense and to make the appropriate kickout.
Read Zion Williamson obviously more in a super like like
a juiced up version of that downhill power, but Zion
Williamson again doesn't bring that kind of counterbalance of the
(07:21):
shooting right. Like then we have some of the slender forwards,
guys like Brandon Ingram and Paul George. They bring the playmaking,
they bring the shooting ability, but they don't bring the power,
that real downhill power. It's a pretty unique combination to
have a player that does all three of those things.
I think that's what makes me think of him as
kind of a Jimmy Butler esque type of player. Jimmy Butler,
(07:44):
especially in this last half decade, has become that guy,
the downhill power guy, the versatile defensive weapon, the playmaker,
the guy that can knock down shots over the top,
and again, like he's doing all of this right now,
Ja Dub in a supporting context. As he continues to
round out the details in his game, he'll get more
(08:05):
opportunities to showcase this stuff, like that tough right shoulder
fade or some of the tough like step back jump
shots that he's been hitting at various points in this postseason.
This is a fantastic Finals performance for JDub to add
to his resume, and again he's still just barely getting
into that groove that he's capable of getting to in
(08:25):
this thunder Championship era. Shay's four game this has been
one of the more interesting subplots of the series. In
my opinion, I think SGA's two highest scoring games in
this series were his two worst games. Outside of Game three.
Game one, he goes for thirty eight. I didn't think
he was particularly good compared to some of his other
(08:46):
games in this postseason. Game four he has thirty five.
Those are his two highest scoring games in this series,
and I didn't think he was particularly good compared to
some of his other games. Like it reminds me of
some of the other rate stars that have come through
the NBA. And I mean this as a compliment. I
am comparing Shay to some all time greats here, But
(09:08):
like when Jokics would have a bad game, when Lebron
would have a bad game, and against all relative when
I say bad games for these guys, a bad game
for prime Lebron, a bad game for prime Jokich. When
I talk about a bad game for Prime SGA. It
is not the same as a bad game for Tyrese
Haliburton from last night or some of these other guys
that we talked about. It's all relative for the record,
(09:31):
but this is the conversation that Shay has put himself in.
He has put himself in as an MVP, a leader
of a sixty eight win team, as soon to be
finals MVP. He is now entering into conversations he's being
evaluated at a different standard. And like jokicch and Lebron
would have these games where they'd go for like twenty
four thirteen and eleven, and you could look at the
(09:54):
box score and you could be like, man, it's twenty
four thirteen and eleven and sixty three percent true shooting,
Like that's an incredible game. But if you watch those
games sometimes you'd feel like, man, like they're just not
asserting themselves as much as they need to. They're not
bringing that like high level scoring imposition that they're capable
of bringing. Lebron had to ultimately in big spots win
(10:18):
by scoring the basketball game six against Boston down three
to two, comes in had to score forty five that
game seven against the Spurs, the need to hit jump
shots that San Antonio was a conceding team. Obviously, making
the right play has always been a huge part of
Jokic in Lebron's games, but they have to bring the
(10:39):
balance and when they're at their best, when they're at
the high end of their spectrum, it's always the combination
of overwhelming scoring force and that high level playmaking that
they bring. Now, Shay is a very different archetype of player. Right,
He's closer to the MJ and Kobe group. But like
MJ and Kobe would have some of these games where
they'd have now different right, for Lebron and Jokic, it
(11:02):
would be these like triple double efficient games where they
didn't bring the requisite scoring pop. For guys like MJ
Kobe in this case, say it's the games where they
have thirty something, thirty five, thirty eight, thirty seven points,
but they do a poor job managing the flow of
the game, and so they'll have these high scoring totals,
but it manifests as poor team offense. Right, Similarly with
(11:27):
Lebron and Jokic high assist totals, but it manifests as
poor team offense. There is a balance that scores need
to have where they bring the requisite playmaking and floor
game and managing the flow of the game that is
required for them to be effective as scores. Just like
for the Jokic Lebron archetype, there's got to be a
(11:49):
certain amount of scoring, imposition and aggression that balances out
their elite floor game in flow game, which is what
they do really really well. SGA's credit, he very clearly
identified his poor process in each of those two games,
because in each case he responded immediately out the gates
(12:13):
with brilliant performances, much better floor game, much better managing
of the flow of the offense. I think his Game
two in Game five performances were his best two games
of the series by far. Once again, in both games
just a super deliberate effort to take the available kickout
reads early in possessions. He had eighteen assists in those
(12:37):
two games. In the other three games of the finals combine,
he had seven assists. Huge difference in process. The Thunder
generated more threes in the first half last night than
they generated the entirety of Game four. They generated eighteen
unguarded catch and shoot jump shots. According to Synergy, they
(12:58):
generated just six in Game four, that's tripling the output
of open catch and shoot jump shots. Overall, as a team,
the Thunder scored forty two points on catch and shoot
jump shots after scoring just nine points on catch and
shoot jump shots in Game four, and most importantly, according
(13:18):
to Cleaning the Glass, in Game two and in Game five,
those were the only two games in this series where
the Thunder managed and offensive rating over one fifteen. They
had a one twenty seven offensive rating in Game two
a one twenty offensive rating in Game five. Every single
other game of the series they've been below a one
(13:41):
fifteen offensive rating. The team's offense, the Thunder offense flows
based on how Shay approaches the game, and the idea
that it needs to affect his scoring is foolish. He
managed sixty five points in those two games, thirty four
in Game two and thirty one last night. He ends
(14:03):
up inevitably finding opportunities to score as the defense loosens
up from him setting the tone by taking those easy reads.
And the scary part is, I really do think that
Shay has learned some valuable lessons on this front in
this postseason run. I talk about this all the time.
Young basketball players tend to struggle to identify what's not
(14:26):
working and cut it out and identify what's working and
repeat it. A lot of times. They'll bounce back and
forth between the two because they struggled to tie process
to results. Over time. With this experience, Shay is gonna learn.
He's gonna look back and go like, I remember what
happened in game one when I came out hunting my
own shot, and then suddenly none of my teammates were
(14:48):
in rhythm, and at the end of the game when
I did start making those kickouts, guys couldn't knock down shots.
I remember Game four when I generally just did a
horrible job of managing the flow of the game, and
it took me having to make some crazy shots at
the end to bail my team out of a game
we probably should have won by fifteen to twenty points.
He'll remember Game two in him coming out immediately hunting
(15:12):
his teammates, the same thing in game five, and how
it resulted in this free flowing offense where more people
are involved and his co stars playing better, and more
guys are getting catching shoot looks and guys are knocking
down shots, and the team lights up the scoreboard. He'll
remember those things, he'll replicate those things, and it'll just
make this Thunder team that much harder to beat in
(15:32):
the coming years. Shay also was amazing on defense in
this game. He had four blocks, had this insane help
side rotation on Obi Toppin in the late second half
where he blocked him at the rim. Had a couple
of nice blocks in transition, including one on a like
a little euro step from Tony Bradley. Just really, really
impressive game from Shae Gilvis Alexander two of the better
games I've seen him play in his career in game two.
(15:54):
In Game five of this playoff run, he got lost
in the flow because of Ja Dubbs massive game. Jada
was incredibly deserves to be recognized as the hero, but
I thought Shay really set the tone with his overall
approach to start last night's game.
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I thought Shet was amazing defensively again last night. He
had three blocks. We've seen so much of the switch
defense of him switching onto ball screens and the damage
that he's done, and he's been awesome by the way
in that regard. I was pulling up the big picture
numbers on Synergy today. Chet has defended twenty nine ISOs
in this playoff run. Including passes. In those twenty nine ISOs,
(17:05):
he's allowed just eighteen points zero point six to two
points per possession. There are forty six players in this
playoff field that have defended at least fifteen ISOs, and
Chet's efficiencies defensive efficiency in those ISOs ranks fifth out
of those forty six players. Been one of the best
ISO defenders in the league in this playoff run. Just
(17:25):
for those who are curious, Anthony Edwards ranked number one
on that list. Cason Wallace, ranked at number two on
that list, had another big time steal on Siakam in
the post last night, Austin Reeves always has been an
underrated defender, was number three on that list, and then
Russell Westbrook was number four. But yeah, chet right there
at number five out of forty six players to defend
(17:46):
at least fifteen ISOs in this playoff run. But last night,
obviously there was still some good defense and switches, but
we got to see a lot more of the rim
protection side of his game. Last night. Erased two offensive
rebound put backs and help side rotations. His length is
part of the layering of Oklahoma City's defense. We talked
about this a lot in the series preview. Having to
(18:07):
pass the tests that Oklahoma City presents. The first step
is ball pressure, get the ball up the floor. The
second step is denial. So in order to get the
ball into your offense, you got to get the ball
to your screeners because they run so many dribble handoffs
and dribble pitches right and Oklahoma City's constantly denying off ball.
Every time someone picks up their dribble. They're just immediately
(18:28):
denying those off ball sequences. Once you get the ball
into the paint in any way, shape or form, you're
immediately getting swarmed. You've got to be able to process
those kickouts out of those swarming help side rotations from
Oka see. And then the fourth layer is shooting, like
finishing the play either against an intense closeout on the
three point line or against the contest at the rim
(18:50):
with chet holmgrin. And every time Indiana was able to
work through those first three layers, chet Holmgren is just
waiting behind it to clean up the mess. But what
I want to amp size here as I thought, Oklahoma
City really blew this game open in the fourth quarter
with the first two layers of their defense, the ball
pressure and the denials. They forced eight turnovers in the
(19:11):
fourth quarter, several just guarding the ball handler up the
floor and rushing him into either traveling or coughing up
the basketball. Several in denials. They turned over Andrew Nemhard
three different times where they forced him to pick up
his dribble and then denied the kickout passes and he
threw the ball away. We talked earlier about Indiana needing
(19:32):
to pass the test of Oklahoma City's ball pressure, and
after four games and three quarters in that fourth quarter,
they were just as far away from solving that test
as ever, it was just a masterclass from the Oklahoma
City defense. If Indiana can't survive the basic element of
getting the ball into their offense, they're dead on arrival.
(19:54):
Looking forward in the series, I obviously don't want to
count Indiana out. They are absolutely capable going home and
pushing this series to seven games. But I think Oklahoma
City has found the perfect formula in this matchup. They
have multiple actions that they can work with a two
man game with Ja dub and Shaye to attack guards
and switches, high ball screens attacking bigs. This works for
(20:17):
both Shaye, but especially for Jay Dubbs had most of
his success attacking bigs downhill and switches using those ball
screens against ball pressure like the extended ball screens out
to thirty five to forty feet. When they get early
dribble penetration off of that, they get great stuff every
single time. Shae just his process as long as he
passes through the help defense for those quality closeout opportunities
(20:38):
and then laid in the clock. That's when they can
lean on the shot making from Shaye and Jay dub
which is just so much more reliable than the shot
making from tyres In Pascal Siakam. And then on defense,
like we talked about before the series, Indy gonna We
talked about before the series, like, is Oklahoma City gonna
have to change their defense because Indiana gets the ball
(20:59):
through their ball pressure gets the ball to the high post,
gets into their ball screen, whirling blender attack gets the
ball into the middle of the floor, makes the appropriate kickouts,
knocks down all these threes. Would Oklahoma City have to adjust,
start switching everything and stay home. No, Their base scheme
has consistently, up to the fourth quarter of the fifth
(21:20):
game in the series, has managed to shake the foundation
of Indiana's offense. They haven't had to change anything. The
Indiana ultimately hasn't been able to solve that test. I
believe Oklahoma City will go in there on Thursday and
beat the Pacers for the trophy. But even if they don't,
I think Oklahoma City wins big in Game seven. The
(21:43):
fear like if you're a Pacer fan and you're looking
for some sort of hope. The hope is you go
home and you win a game which you know you're
capable of. Then just like tonight, you have one of
those late second half runs. Siakam hits a three off
of an offensive rebound, it's ninety five nine. Maybe it
just goes the other way and you pull out a
game seven. But every time it's been in that situation,
(22:07):
every time it's been like, here's this five minutes that's
gonna determine who wins this game. Okahoma City tightens the
screws and Indiana falls apart. In Game four, Okahoma City
tightened the screws. Indiana couldn't score last night, ninety five,
ninety three, that's cute. You got it back to two.
Then you turn the ball over on four consecutive possessions
(22:27):
against the first two layers of Oklahoma City's defense. Because
their defense, every time it's needed to be, becomes indomitable.
And that's why they're gonna be the champions. Now. As
I zoom out from the series, there are several areas,
some specific areas, where I just didn't think the Pacers
were good enough if there was any chance for them
to win this series. Tyre's Halliburton I talked about before
(22:52):
the series. One of the major storylines is like what
if Oklahoma City just like kind of embarrasses him. Now,
Tyres has had some nice games in the series. I
thought he was great in Game three. Obviously, hits a
game winner at the end of Game one. He's had
his moments, I would argue Tyrese has not been embarrassed
in this series. But outside of those moments, it's been
(23:14):
pretty rough. I saw a tweet from buddy mind Jamal
Christopher shout out, Jamal does good work covering the Clippers,
big Clippers fan, And I'm reading this tweet because I
think it is an important kind of like bit of
context to what happened last night. To me, in my opinion,
it's pretty disingenuous to act like Halliburton isn't capable of
(23:36):
some dangerous lows even when he's at one hundred percent.
And that was my big takeaway from last night. I
agree with Jamal completely. Yeah, Tyres Halliburton was a little
banged up. You can see that really awkward step that
he took where his foot kind of slipped out from
underneath him. We know he's been dealing with some some
sort of ankle, achilles something in his right foot. Clearly
(23:58):
he tweaked it a little bit more last night on
that move. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like
Tyrese wasn't a little banged up. But again, I agree
with Jamal. I think Tyrese is just as capable of
that type of game even when he's at his best.
And we've talked about it before. It's the reason why
he's not a top tier superstar. In order to get
(24:19):
up into that you know, five to six range, he's
got to become substantially more reliable as a scorer. To me,
this kind of just is the reality of what can
happen with Tyrese. If he runs into a really good defense,
with a really good defensive guard that can beat him
over the top of screens and a big that can
guard him in switches, it's gonna render him borderline ineffective
(24:42):
as a score. And we saw an exaggerated version of
it last night because of the issues that were going
on with this calf muscle. But I agree. I think
just writing off Tyrese's game last night is like, oh,
he was hurt, that's the only reason that happened. I
agree with Jamal. I think that's disingenuous. I think they're
there's so many examples over the years, over the last
(25:03):
couple of years, to where Tyrese can have some to
quote Jamal dangerous lows in these sorts of situations, lows
that can be difficult to overcome. And thankfully the Pacers
got a ton out of Pascal Siakam last night. Ear
could have gotten particularly ugly, but Tyrese ultimately wasn't good
enough in this series in order to give his team
(25:25):
a better chance to win. Miles Turner's offense. I talked
about it before the series, as he was the biggest
swing factor for Indiana. He was going to need to
be able to hit the open threes. He was just
four for nineteen through the first five games of this
series on catch and shoot jump shots. Just not good enough.
He wasn't good in his ball screen coverages. We're about
to talk about it in a minute, but I want
to cut him some slack on that because I blame
(25:46):
Carlyle more than I blame him. But on the offensive end,
that was where he needed to be better. If he goes,
you know, eight for nineteen on those catch and shoot
jump shots, it might have been the difference in this series.
Potentially that was a missed opportunity. The ball screen coverages.
I've been mentioning about this the entire series. The specific
thing I've been complaining about is on especially extended ball screens.
(26:10):
It's one thing in the half court in a situation
where Shae doesn't have ahead of steam, or he's standing,
you know, twenty four feet from the basket on the
left wing, and here comes the ball screen and he
comes off the ball screen and Turner's at the level.
That's one thing where Turner has a fighting chance to
keep Shaye in front because Shae doesn't have ahead of steam.
I would have been more okay with that coverage. But
(26:31):
in these extended ball pressure screens where Hart and Stein
and shd or screening for Shay sometimes beyond half court
sixty feet from the rim, sometimes in front of half
court forty thirty five feet from the rim. For Turner
to be up that high, for Tony Bradley to be
up that high on a ball screen is foolish. And
(26:51):
they were giving up dribble penetration where where Shaye or
Jadub was getting past Turner or getting past Bradley so
far out from the basket that they're just parading down
the lane for layups, fouls, easy kickouts, while Turner and
Bradley are jogging in from behind the play and it's
stupid because Miles Turner's best attribute on defense is his
(27:14):
length that has value at the rim. It is a
non factor out that far from the basket. You know
what is a factor that far from the basket his
slow foot speed, which was consistently exploited. If he's out
underneath the basket, it's a much more achievable defensive job
for Miles Turner to do. And Guys, I don't think
we've seen this again. We saw this with Minnesota, to
(27:36):
a more exaggerated version of it. This extended pressure against
Oklahoma City hasn't worked. Guys, Guess who has been the
most efficient defense against Oklahoma City in these playoffs. Guess
which team has done the best job guarding the Thunder.
The Denver Nuggets. They've lo likeed a one to thirteen
point eight defensive rating against the Thunder in seven games.
(28:00):
And what did they do. They sagged back, they gapped,
They ran a ton of zone. They forced Oklahoma City
to beat them by processing and by hitting jump shots,
not by allowing them to get easy, easy dribble penetration
over and over again with a foolishly over extended defense.
And again, I wasn't even necessarily against the ball pressure.
(28:22):
I understood some of the fatigue advantages there. I just
did not understand Rick Carlyle's approach bringing his bigs out
that far for the entire series. I thought that was
a mistake. The pathways there for the Pacers, It's not
over by any stretch of the imagination. It's just so narrow.
And then even if they end up in a situation
where like they win Game six and they have a
(28:43):
tie game with four minutes left in Game seven, I
just don't think they've established anything that is reliable to
score against Oklahoma City's defense. And it just seems like
such a narrow pathway for me at this point. All right, guys,
That's all I have for today is always a sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show.
We will be back live on YouTube on Thursday night
(29:05):
for Game six of the NBA Finals. I will see
you guys there. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate
you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight. They would
actually be really helpful for us if you guys would
take a second and leave a rating and a review.
As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if
you could take a minute to do that, I really
appreciate it.
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co slash audio. Wellcome to tonight. You're at the Vallume
(02:01):
Havy Tuesday. Everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
a great start too a week. We are going to
be talking a little bit about Game five of the
NBA Finals today. I want to get into some of
the content, some of the specific angles from the game
that we didn't get to get into Last Night with Colin,
so we're gonna be breaking that down. I want to
at I want to dive into a little bit looking
forward in the series, what I expect to happen in
(02:22):
Game six. I want to talk about some of the
specific areas where the Pacers have lost control of this series,
specific swing factor, some of which we discussed coming into
the series, tests that Indiana had to pass in order
to thrive in this particular matchup. Lots of stuff we
want to get into in the NBA Finals. You guys
know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to the
Hoops Tonight YouTube channel. You don't miss any more of
(02:43):
our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore JSNLTS. You
guysn't miss announcement. So forget about a podcast feed where
you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super
helpful if you leave your rating in a review on
that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media
feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Make sure you guys
follow us there. The last but not least, if you
guys want to get mailed back questions in in our
live shows. But our next live show is on Thursday night.
(03:04):
Just show up to the live show, drop your questions
in the chat, then we'll get it to the mail
bag at the tail end of the show, and then
obviously once we get out of the finals, will shift
back towards taking them from the YouTube contents. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So last night was the J
Dubbs Show. We talked a little bit about it last
night with Colin Coward. I focused on the idea of
his downhill power and kind of in the context of
(03:25):
what we saw TJ McConnell succeed with the general idea
being that there's a lot of handsy, physical defense on
the perimeter in the NBA playoffs and big, strong players
tend to thrive in those settings. I don't think it's
a coincidence. As you look back through NBA history, the
best player on championship teams has been a power player
in basically every single series for the last decade and
(03:48):
a half, other than Steph you know, like you Obviously
last year for the Celtics, it was more of like
a bi committee by a kind of thing. But who
was the best player for the Celtics in the playoffs
in terms of of you know, winning Eastern Conference Finals
MVP and Finals MVP. It was Jalen Brown a power player,
even Tatum in his contributions as a defensive player and
(04:08):
as a playmaker in that in that playoff run power,
Luka Doncic was the best player in that postseason power
Right twenty twenty three, Nikole Jokic Power twenty twenty two. Obviously,
Steph He's your exception twenty twenty one, Giannis Power twenty twenty,
Lebron Power twenty nineteen, Kawhi Power. We can go back
throughout time and you're going to see a pretty consistent
(04:30):
trend of like Steph Curry being the exception, the one
kind of like finesse perimeter oriented player that thrives in
these settings. But it's a lot of power that thrives here.
Last night, Jadob had forty points right, but nineteen of
those forty points came either in transition runouts or backdoor cuts.
(04:51):
His cutting was incredibly impressive last night. I counted four
separate buckets and nine points total because he had an
and one on one with Nie Smith, or he just
backdoor like just beat like red the defender saw that
he was in denial and just cut really hard back door,
using that power physical swim move to get around the
defender and ended up getting easy stuff at the basket.
He did some beautiful work out of ball screens too
(05:13):
in the fourth quarter, showcasing similar downhill force in both
actions attacking bigs and guards. But he got himself into
a rhythm in this game because that stuff didn't happen
until late late in the game, Like, he got himself
into a rhythm just by using his Basketball IQ to
identify runways opportunities for him to get ahead of steam
(05:35):
without the ball, a transition lane, a back door cut opportunity.
Those are areas where in a system like this where
the ball, you know, I think the ball will shift
towards being in Jdubb's hands more and more over the
years as he improves and as Shay kind of like
starts to feel a little bit more of like an
open partnership with Jdubb. But even in that context, it's
(05:59):
going to be useful for him to be a weapon
off the ball, and in this context it's a super
valuable weapon. And he did a ton of damage in
this game again, nineteen of his forty points literally just
running lanes right then he tied it all together with
his jump shooting, which is really the piece that separates
him from the other similar types of playmaking forwards in
(06:20):
the league. He had three open catch and shoot threes
that were all very important last night. That little right
shoulder fade, that classic Dwayne Wade half spin right at
the top of the key, that was kind of the
cherry on top of his finals masterpiece. But we just
don't have very many players in the league that bring
the combination of downhill power, high level playmaking, and high
(06:41):
level shooting. Right you look at Paolo. He brings some
high level shooting at least from the mid range, and
he brings a lot of power, but he can be
a little bit of a tunnel vision guy that can
struggle to make the kickout Raads Franz Wagner another kind
of big forward. He brings the high level playmaking and
he brings the downhill power, but his jump shot is
like an absolute adventure and in many case is downright bad.
(07:01):
Jaylen Brown a little bit inconsistent as a jump shooter,
but I think he brings that jump shooting piece, and
he brings the downhill power piece, but he can struggle
to process the defense and to make the appropriate kickout.
Read Zion Williamson obviously more in a super like like
a juiced up version of that downhill power, but Zion
Williamson again doesn't bring that kind of counterbalance of the
(07:21):
shooting right. Like then we have some of the slender forwards,
guys like Brandon Ingram and Paul George. They bring the playmaking,
they bring the shooting ability, but they don't bring the power,
that real downhill power. It's a pretty unique combination to
have a player that does all three of those things.
I think that's what makes me think of him as
kind of a Jimmy Butler esque type of player. Jimmy Butler,
(07:44):
especially in this last half decade, has become that guy,
the downhill power guy, the versatile defensive weapon, the playmaker,
the guy that can knock down shots over the top,
and again, like he's doing all of this right now,
Ja Dub in a supporting context. As he continues to
round out the details in his game, he'll get more
(08:05):
opportunities to showcase this stuff, like that tough right shoulder
fade or some of the tough like step back jump
shots that he's been hitting at various points in this postseason.
This is a fantastic Finals performance for JDub to add
to his resume, and again he's still just barely getting
into that groove that he's capable of getting to in
(08:25):
this thunder Championship era. Shay's four game this has been
one of the more interesting subplots of the series. In
my opinion, I think SGA's two highest scoring games in
this series were his two worst games. Outside of Game three.
Game one, he goes for thirty eight. I didn't think
he was particularly good compared to some of his other
(08:46):
games in this postseason. Game four he has thirty five.
Those are his two highest scoring games in this series,
and I didn't think he was particularly good compared to
some of his other games. Like it reminds me of
some of the other rate stars that have come through
the NBA. And I mean this as a compliment. I
am comparing Shay to some all time greats here, But
(09:08):
like when Jokics would have a bad game, when Lebron
would have a bad game, and against all relative when
I say bad games for these guys, a bad game
for prime Lebron, a bad game for prime Jokich. When
I talk about a bad game for Prime SGA. It
is not the same as a bad game for Tyrese
Haliburton from last night or some of these other guys
that we talked about. It's all relative for the record,
(09:31):
but this is the conversation that Shay has put himself in.
He has put himself in as an MVP, a leader
of a sixty eight win team, as soon to be
finals MVP. He is now entering into conversations he's being
evaluated at a different standard. And like jokicch and Lebron
would have these games where they'd go for like twenty
four thirteen and eleven, and you could look at the
(09:54):
box score and you could be like, man, it's twenty
four thirteen and eleven and sixty three percent true shooting,
Like that's an incredible game. But if you watch those
games sometimes you'd feel like, man, like they're just not
asserting themselves as much as they need to. They're not
bringing that like high level scoring imposition that they're capable
of bringing. Lebron had to ultimately in big spots win
(10:18):
by scoring the basketball game six against Boston down three
to two, comes in had to score forty five that
game seven against the Spurs, the need to hit jump
shots that San Antonio was a conceding team. Obviously, making
the right play has always been a huge part of
Jokic in Lebron's games, but they have to bring the
(10:39):
balance and when they're at their best, when they're at
the high end of their spectrum, it's always the combination
of overwhelming scoring force and that high level playmaking that
they bring. Now, Shay is a very different archetype of player. Right,
He's closer to the MJ and Kobe group. But like
MJ and Kobe would have some of these games where
they'd have now different right, for Lebron and Jokic, it
(11:02):
would be these like triple double efficient games where they
didn't bring the requisite scoring pop. For guys like MJ
Kobe in this case, say it's the games where they
have thirty something, thirty five, thirty eight, thirty seven points,
but they do a poor job managing the flow of
the game, and so they'll have these high scoring totals,
but it manifests as poor team offense. Right, Similarly with
(11:27):
Lebron and Jokic high assist totals, but it manifests as
poor team offense. There is a balance that scores need
to have where they bring the requisite playmaking and floor
game and managing the flow of the game that is
required for them to be effective as scores. Just like
for the Jokic Lebron archetype, there's got to be a
(11:49):
certain amount of scoring, imposition and aggression that balances out
their elite floor game in flow game, which is what
they do really really well. SGA's credit, he very clearly
identified his poor process in each of those two games,
because in each case he responded immediately out the gates
(12:13):
with brilliant performances, much better floor game, much better managing
of the flow of the offense. I think his Game
two in Game five performances were his best two games
of the series by far. Once again, in both games
just a super deliberate effort to take the available kickout
reads early in possessions. He had eighteen assists in those
(12:37):
two games. In the other three games of the finals combine,
he had seven assists. Huge difference in process. The Thunder
generated more threes in the first half last night than
they generated the entirety of Game four. They generated eighteen
unguarded catch and shoot jump shots. According to Synergy, they
(12:58):
generated just six in Game four, that's tripling the output
of open catch and shoot jump shots. Overall, as a team,
the Thunder scored forty two points on catch and shoot
jump shots after scoring just nine points on catch and
shoot jump shots in Game four, and most importantly, according
(13:18):
to Cleaning the Glass, in Game two and in Game five,
those were the only two games in this series where
the Thunder managed and offensive rating over one fifteen. They
had a one twenty seven offensive rating in Game two
a one twenty offensive rating in Game five. Every single
other game of the series they've been below a one
(13:41):
fifteen offensive rating. The team's offense, the Thunder offense flows
based on how Shay approaches the game, and the idea
that it needs to affect his scoring is foolish. He
managed sixty five points in those two games, thirty four
in Game two and thirty one last night. He ends
(14:03):
up inevitably finding opportunities to score as the defense loosens
up from him setting the tone by taking those easy reads.
And the scary part is, I really do think that
Shay has learned some valuable lessons on this front in
this postseason run. I talk about this all the time.
Young basketball players tend to struggle to identify what's not
(14:26):
working and cut it out and identify what's working and
repeat it. A lot of times. They'll bounce back and
forth between the two because they struggled to tie process
to results. Over time. With this experience, Shay is gonna learn.
He's gonna look back and go like, I remember what
happened in game one when I came out hunting my
own shot, and then suddenly none of my teammates were
(14:48):
in rhythm, and at the end of the game when
I did start making those kickouts, guys couldn't knock down shots.
I remember Game four when I generally just did a
horrible job of managing the flow of the game, and
it took me having to make some crazy shots at
the end to bail my team out of a game
we probably should have won by fifteen to twenty points.
He'll remember Game two in him coming out immediately hunting
(15:12):
his teammates, the same thing in game five, and how
it resulted in this free flowing offense where more people
are involved and his co stars playing better, and more
guys are getting catching shoot looks and guys are knocking
down shots, and the team lights up the scoreboard. He'll
remember those things, he'll replicate those things, and it'll just
make this Thunder team that much harder to beat in
(15:32):
the coming years. Shay also was amazing on defense in
this game. He had four blocks, had this insane help
side rotation on Obi Toppin in the late second half
where he blocked him at the rim. Had a couple
of nice blocks in transition, including one on a like
a little euro step from Tony Bradley. Just really, really
impressive game from Shae Gilvis Alexander two of the better
games I've seen him play in his career in game two.
(15:54):
In Game five of this playoff run, he got lost
in the flow because of Ja Dubbs massive game. Jada
was incredibly deserves to be recognized as the hero, but
I thought Shay really set the tone with his overall
approach to start last night's game.
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I thought Shet was amazing defensively again last night. He
had three blocks. We've seen so much of the switch
defense of him switching onto ball screens and the damage
that he's done, and he's been awesome by the way
in that regard. I was pulling up the big picture
numbers on Synergy today. Chet has defended twenty nine ISOs
in this playoff run. Including passes. In those twenty nine ISOs,
(17:05):
he's allowed just eighteen points zero point six to two
points per possession. There are forty six players in this
playoff field that have defended at least fifteen ISOs, and
Chet's efficiencies defensive efficiency in those ISOs ranks fifth out
of those forty six players. Been one of the best
ISO defenders in the league in this playoff run. Just
(17:25):
for those who are curious, Anthony Edwards ranked number one
on that list. Cason Wallace, ranked at number two on
that list, had another big time steal on Siakam in
the post last night, Austin Reeves always has been an
underrated defender, was number three on that list, and then
Russell Westbrook was number four. But yeah, chet right there
at number five out of forty six players to defend
(17:46):
at least fifteen ISOs in this playoff run. But last night,
obviously there was still some good defense and switches, but
we got to see a lot more of the rim
protection side of his game. Last night. Erased two offensive
rebound put backs and help side rotations. His length is
part of the layering of Oklahoma City's defense. We talked
about this a lot in the series preview. Having to
(18:07):
pass the tests that Oklahoma City presents. The first step
is ball pressure, get the ball up the floor. The
second step is denial. So in order to get the
ball into your offense, you got to get the ball
to your screeners because they run so many dribble handoffs
and dribble pitches right and Oklahoma City's constantly denying off ball.
Every time someone picks up their dribble. They're just immediately
(18:28):
denying those off ball sequences. Once you get the ball
into the paint in any way, shape or form, you're
immediately getting swarmed. You've got to be able to process
those kickouts out of those swarming help side rotations from
Oka see. And then the fourth layer is shooting, like
finishing the play either against an intense closeout on the
three point line or against the contest at the rim
(18:50):
with chet holmgrin. And every time Indiana was able to
work through those first three layers, chet Holmgren is just
waiting behind it to clean up the mess. But what
I want to amp size here as I thought, Oklahoma
City really blew this game open in the fourth quarter
with the first two layers of their defense, the ball
pressure and the denials. They forced eight turnovers in the
(19:11):
fourth quarter, several just guarding the ball handler up the
floor and rushing him into either traveling or coughing up
the basketball. Several in denials. They turned over Andrew Nemhard
three different times where they forced him to pick up
his dribble and then denied the kickout passes and he
threw the ball away. We talked earlier about Indiana needing
(19:32):
to pass the test of Oklahoma City's ball pressure, and
after four games and three quarters in that fourth quarter,
they were just as far away from solving that test
as ever, it was just a masterclass from the Oklahoma
City defense. If Indiana can't survive the basic element of
getting the ball into their offense, they're dead on arrival.
(19:54):
Looking forward in the series, I obviously don't want to
count Indiana out. They are absolutely capable going home and
pushing this series to seven games. But I think Oklahoma
City has found the perfect formula in this matchup. They
have multiple actions that they can work with a two
man game with Ja dub and Shaye to attack guards
and switches, high ball screens attacking bigs. This works for
(20:17):
both Shaye, but especially for Jay Dubbs had most of
his success attacking bigs downhill and switches using those ball
screens against ball pressure like the extended ball screens out
to thirty five to forty feet. When they get early
dribble penetration off of that, they get great stuff every
single time. Shae just his process as long as he
passes through the help defense for those quality closeout opportunities
(20:38):
and then laid in the clock. That's when they can
lean on the shot making from Shaye and Jay dub
which is just so much more reliable than the shot
making from tyres In Pascal Siakam. And then on defense,
like we talked about before the series, Indy gonna We
talked about before the series, like, is Oklahoma City gonna
have to change their defense because Indiana gets the ball
(20:59):
through their ball pressure gets the ball to the high post,
gets into their ball screen, whirling blender attack gets the
ball into the middle of the floor, makes the appropriate kickouts,
knocks down all these threes. Would Oklahoma City have to adjust,
start switching everything and stay home. No, Their base scheme
has consistently, up to the fourth quarter of the fifth
(21:20):
game in the series, has managed to shake the foundation
of Indiana's offense. They haven't had to change anything. The
Indiana ultimately hasn't been able to solve that test. I
believe Oklahoma City will go in there on Thursday and
beat the Pacers for the trophy. But even if they don't,
I think Oklahoma City wins big in Game seven. The
(21:43):
fear like if you're a Pacer fan and you're looking
for some sort of hope. The hope is you go
home and you win a game which you know you're
capable of. Then just like tonight, you have one of
those late second half runs. Siakam hits a three off
of an offensive rebound, it's ninety five nine. Maybe it
just goes the other way and you pull out a
game seven. But every time it's been in that situation,
(22:07):
every time it's been like, here's this five minutes that's
gonna determine who wins this game. Okahoma City tightens the
screws and Indiana falls apart. In Game four, Okahoma City
tightened the screws. Indiana couldn't score last night, ninety five,
ninety three, that's cute. You got it back to two.
Then you turn the ball over on four consecutive possessions
(22:27):
against the first two layers of Oklahoma City's defense. Because
their defense, every time it's needed to be, becomes indomitable.
And that's why they're gonna be the champions. Now. As
I zoom out from the series, there are several areas,
some specific areas, where I just didn't think the Pacers
were good enough if there was any chance for them
to win this series. Tyre's Halliburton I talked about before
(22:52):
the series. One of the major storylines is like what
if Oklahoma City just like kind of embarrasses him. Now,
Tyres has had some nice games in the series. I
thought he was great in Game three. Obviously, hits a
game winner at the end of Game one. He's had
his moments, I would argue Tyrese has not been embarrassed
in this series. But outside of those moments, it's been
(23:14):
pretty rough. I saw a tweet from buddy mind Jamal
Christopher shout out, Jamal does good work covering the Clippers,
big Clippers fan, And I'm reading this tweet because I
think it is an important kind of like bit of
context to what happened last night. To me, in my opinion,
it's pretty disingenuous to act like Halliburton isn't capable of
(23:36):
some dangerous lows even when he's at one hundred percent.
And that was my big takeaway from last night. I
agree with Jamal completely. Yeah, Tyres Halliburton was a little
banged up. You can see that really awkward step that
he took where his foot kind of slipped out from
underneath him. We know he's been dealing with some some
sort of ankle, achilles something in his right foot. Clearly
(23:58):
he tweaked it a little bit more last night on
that move. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like
Tyrese wasn't a little banged up. But again, I agree
with Jamal. I think Tyrese is just as capable of
that type of game even when he's at his best.
And we've talked about it before. It's the reason why
he's not a top tier superstar. In order to get
(24:19):
up into that you know, five to six range, he's
got to become substantially more reliable as a scorer. To me,
this kind of just is the reality of what can
happen with Tyrese. If he runs into a really good defense,
with a really good defensive guard that can beat him
over the top of screens and a big that can
guard him in switches, it's gonna render him borderline ineffective
(24:42):
as a score. And we saw an exaggerated version of
it last night because of the issues that were going
on with this calf muscle. But I agree. I think
just writing off Tyrese's game last night is like, oh,
he was hurt, that's the only reason that happened. I
agree with Jamal. I think that's disingenuous. I think they're
there's so many examples over the years, over the last
(25:03):
couple of years, to where Tyrese can have some to
quote Jamal dangerous lows in these sorts of situations, lows
that can be difficult to overcome. And thankfully the Pacers
got a ton out of Pascal Siakam last night. Ear
could have gotten particularly ugly, but Tyrese ultimately wasn't good
enough in this series in order to give his team
(25:25):
a better chance to win. Miles Turner's offense. I talked
about it before the series, as he was the biggest
swing factor for Indiana. He was going to need to
be able to hit the open threes. He was just
four for nineteen through the first five games of this
series on catch and shoot jump shots. Just not good enough.
He wasn't good in his ball screen coverages. We're about
to talk about it in a minute, but I want
to cut him some slack on that because I blame
(25:46):
Carlyle more than I blame him. But on the offensive end,
that was where he needed to be better. If he goes,
you know, eight for nineteen on those catch and shoot
jump shots, it might have been the difference in this series.
Potentially that was a missed opportunity. The ball screen coverages.
I've been mentioning about this the entire series. The specific
thing I've been complaining about is on especially extended ball screens.
(26:10):
It's one thing in the half court in a situation
where Shae doesn't have ahead of steam, or he's standing,
you know, twenty four feet from the basket on the
left wing, and here comes the ball screen and he
comes off the ball screen and Turner's at the level.
That's one thing where Turner has a fighting chance to
keep Shaye in front because Shae doesn't have ahead of steam.
I would have been more okay with that coverage. But
(26:31):
in these extended ball pressure screens where Hart and Stein
and shd or screening for Shay sometimes beyond half court
sixty feet from the rim, sometimes in front of half
court forty thirty five feet from the rim. For Turner
to be up that high, for Tony Bradley to be
up that high on a ball screen is foolish. And
(26:51):
they were giving up dribble penetration where where Shaye or
Jadub was getting past Turner or getting past Bradley so
far out from the basket that they're just parading down
the lane for layups, fouls, easy kickouts, while Turner and
Bradley are jogging in from behind the play and it's
stupid because Miles Turner's best attribute on defense is his
(27:14):
length that has value at the rim. It is a
non factor out that far from the basket. You know
what is a factor that far from the basket his
slow foot speed, which was consistently exploited. If he's out
underneath the basket, it's a much more achievable defensive job
for Miles Turner to do. And Guys, I don't think
we've seen this again. We saw this with Minnesota, to
(27:36):
a more exaggerated version of it. This extended pressure against
Oklahoma City hasn't worked. Guys, Guess who has been the
most efficient defense against Oklahoma City in these playoffs. Guess
which team has done the best job guarding the Thunder.
The Denver Nuggets. They've lo likeed a one to thirteen
point eight defensive rating against the Thunder in seven games.
(28:00):
And what did they do. They sagged back, they gapped,
They ran a ton of zone. They forced Oklahoma City
to beat them by processing and by hitting jump shots,
not by allowing them to get easy, easy dribble penetration
over and over again with a foolishly over extended defense.
And again, I wasn't even necessarily against the ball pressure.
(28:22):
I understood some of the fatigue advantages there. I just
did not understand Rick Carlyle's approach bringing his bigs out
that far for the entire series. I thought that was
a mistake. The pathways there for the Pacers, It's not
over by any stretch of the imagination. It's just so narrow.
And then even if they end up in a situation
where like they win Game six and they have a
(28:43):
tie game with four minutes left in Game seven, I
just don't think they've established anything that is reliable to
score against Oklahoma City's defense. And it just seems like
such a narrow pathway for me at this point. All right, guys,
That's all I have for today is always a sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show.
We will be back live on YouTube on Thursday night
(29:05):
for Game six of the NBA Finals. I will see
you guys there. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate
you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight. They would
actually be really helpful for us if you guys would
take a second and leave a rating and a review.
As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if
you could take a minute to do that, I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The volume
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