Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the Minnesota Timberwolves in Game 5 of the Western Conference Finals to advance to the NBA Finals. He discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander dominating, Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams doing their part to beat Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle. He also discusses who should be the next Face of the NBA.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
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Slash audio. All right, welcome to Hoosadi here at the
(02:03):
volume heavy wins there everybody. Hope all of you guys
are having a great week, well as expected. The Oklahoma
City thunder delivered the death blow to the Minnesota Timberwolves tonight,
immediately out the gates, just kicking their ass.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And it started with their defense.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We can talk about Shay and j Dubb, and those
two guys have had incredible offensive moments in this postseason run.
I think Game four is a great example of a
game that those two guys won with their offense. But
the best attribute of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their
defense and holding the Minnesota Timberwolves to just thirty two
points in the first half as they make their way
(02:35):
to the NBA Finals. We're going to be very briefly
talking about that game. We're going to be mostly looking
forward for Oklahoma City and Minnesota after that. For our
Microsoft Course Correction segment this week, I want to talk
a little bit about Alex.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Caruso the tail end of the show.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
There's been a lot of debate over the course of
the last couple of days about the current state of
the NBA. Specifically, we've talked about refereeing and stuff like that.
I want to focus in more on the concept of
the face of the lead and some of the complaining
about Oklahoma City and Indiana being in the finals as
small markets, and some of the stuff about whether or
not the league needs to market some of these teams better.
(03:10):
I want to kind of dive into that concept, the
transition from the Steph lebron kd era into this new era,
and just some of the realities that face down stars
like Shay Gils, Alexander and Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards and
other guys who want to make an imprint on this league.
And so that'll be our third segment tonight, and then
when we are at when we are done with all
(03:31):
of that, we'll take five to ten minutes of questions
from the mail bag, So make sure you guys get
your questions into the chat. You guys are the joke
before we get started. To subscribe to hoops Cent. Subscribe
to the Hoops and O YouTube channel so you don't
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leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's
doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
(03:53):
Make sure you guys follow us there and keep dropping
mailbag questions in the chat so that we can get
to them. At the tail end of the show. Also,
when we finish here tonight, right it over to playback again.
That's playback dot TV slash shops tonight, We're gonna, you know,
take callers, We'll watch some film, we'll have some fun.
It'll just be a it'll just be like a more
informal kind of environment where we can all talk hoops together.
(04:14):
So make sure you guys follow us over to playback
when we finish up tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So what an ass.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Kicking that was?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I thought Oklahoma City came right out the gates with
an absurd defensive effort and the Wolves kind of just crumbled. Specifically,
the role player talent couldn't really handle the physicality. I
thought Ant looked a little shook early. Julius was a
little strong early, like it kind of looked a little
bit more engaged early, but then Aunt woke up. But
it didn't really matter. There was just a huge amount
(04:43):
of pressure and intensity. Ants pull up three point shot
kind of abandoned him in this series, similar to what
happened in the Western Conference Finals last year. And honestly,
the wheels came off quickly and there one really a
whole lot of chance there for Minnesota to try to
close the gap again. Like we can talk about all
the different offensive talent on this team, and this Thunder
offense has been impressive, as we've talked about them needing
(05:03):
to conquer their demons in terms of spot up shooting
and decision making for shake yieldes Alexander and some of
the youthful inconsistency from j dub which has gone completely
by the wayside since Game seven of the Denver Nuggets series.
And we can talk about all that, but the best
attribute that this team has is their defense, and that's
the thing that I think is going to win them
the title. I said this after Game four. I thought
(05:26):
Minnesota's chance at home to tie that series at two
was the last chance, the last barrier. There's obviously games
to win, but the last substantial barrier that stood in
the way between them and winning the title, and they
conquered that. And I at this point, I would be
absolutely stunned if Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Didn't win the title.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you know, we've talked a lot about the uh
what makes an all time great team, and I've been
talking about this over the years, Like as we talked
about Boston last year as everyone wanted to talk about
their net rating and different things like that, or Oklahoma
City this year and talk about their net rating in
the regular season. You don't become all time great in
the regular season. You just don't. You don't unless you
win seventy games. Like that's just the reality. When we
(06:07):
talk about the all time great teams, we talk about
the seventy three win Warriors losing, and we talk about
the seventy two win Bulls, right, But like, when you
get to the postseason, that is where you can make
a name for yourself. That is where you can become
a legend. That's going to be a theme when we
get into that face of the league conversation. This defense
has been reputed as being an all time great defense
(06:28):
third during the regular season based on the statistical performance
of the defense. I'd argue what puts them into that
conversation is the job that they did in this postseason.
I have never seen Nikole Jokic in his prime play
three consecutive bad playoff games. Oksee did that to him.
Oklahoma City made Julius Randall when he had for two rounds,
(06:48):
revitalized his playoff reputation. They completely exposed him like a
completely and utterly exposed him in the series to the
point where I thought he kind of let go of
the rope in terms of his effort and competitiveness in
Game four, Anthony Edwards in the wonderful postseason he had
been having shut him down in this series relative to
(07:09):
what his previous production was. This is where you can
make a name for yourself and the next step if
you shut down that Tyrese Haliburton led high octane Indiana
Pacers offense, that is the last piece of the puzzle
that can cement you as one of the defenses that
we will remember in NBA history. It almost feels like
there are steps to solving the Thunder puzzle. I was
(07:31):
thinking about this during the first half tonight. It felt
like we couldn't even really get to the kind of
the normal chain of playmaking with Aunt and Julius and
them having disparate to the corners and attacking closeouts and
breaking down Oklahoma City's defense incrementally because they couldn't handle
the ball pressure at the beginning of the possessions. It
feels like the first step to solving the Thunder puzzle
(07:53):
is you got to get the ball to the spots
that you need the ball to begin, whether it's a
specific action that you're looking to run, a specific post mismatch,
something along those lines. And if you fail that test,
like if you can't even get the ball to your spots,
then you're just dead on arrival. Lou dorton Alex Caruso
with seven steals tonight. We'll talk more about Caruso in
(08:14):
particular here in a few minutes. But like absolute wrecking balls,
you're watching them try to throw the ball to Julius
Randa on the post case on Wallace knocks the ball
off of his chest. Oh, he finally gets a deep
post catch on a transition seal. Oh, he tries to
go up against a triple team and just gets swatted
off the glass. They completely disrupted Minnesota before they could
even get to the actions that they wanted to get to.
(08:35):
It was an incredibly impressive performance from the Thunder. Now,
looking forward to the finals, there's a lot of different
dynamics that we're gonna be looking at, and this is
just gonna be a little brief teaser. Again, we're gonna
have a full series preview. Most I think that the
Pacers have a good chance to win tomorrow night, because
I think the Knicks probably know they blew their chance.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I think the Knicks have like roughly one out of
three chance of winning that game tomorrow night. But then
the pay I think are almost certainly going to win
in Game six. So we will have a series preview
when the time comes. We're gonna wait until we get
a final result out of the Eastern Conference Finals. But
my initial impression is going to have a lot to
do with the game plan. I think that for Mark Dagnall,
(09:15):
this team's identity is what you saw tonight and forward aggression,
battling at the point of attack with ball pressure, denying
high post entries, doing everything you can to disrupt offense
early in the sequence. And it's gonna be tricky because
Indiana doesn't really turn the basketball over. Tyris Saliburton in particular,
(09:35):
is one of the best guards in the league at
taking care of the basketball. He's under averaging less than
two turnovers per game in this postseason run. He's also
particularly gifted over the top passer, which is going to
be the kind of opening that Okac is going to
have to concede in their defensive scheme, but I do
think it's worthwhile, considering that this is their identity. I
think it's worthwhile to at least throw that punch at
(09:55):
the beginning of game one, meaning picking up full court,
pressuring the ball, trying to stop the Pacers from getting
into their half court flow, and trying to see if
you can turn them over. My big key there would
be Mark Dagnault being willing to pivot if it doesn't work.
So if it's clear right in the first you know
quarter and a half of Game one, that the ball
(10:16):
pressure isn't bothering them and that they're getting the ball
over the top to the weak side and they're starting
to get you into rotation consistently, I think Dagnalton needs
to pivot quickly. The Pacers have been a very difficult
team to beat in Indiana especially and must win games. Yeah,
they've dropped a couple of games when they're up two
to oh in the series, but when you have two
to oh on the road, it's like the biggest that's
(10:37):
the most dominant start to a series you can possibly
have is to go up two to oh on the road,
And so those games were a little bit weird in
terms of a lack of intensity from Indiana, and in
both games it kind of lost their identity. You don't
want to trick off an early game in the series
to the Pacers because of a bad game plan and
then go into a situation where they smell blood and
they see the trophy and they get a couple of
(10:59):
wins in Indiana, all of a sudden you're staring down
the barrel of a three to one deficit. So early
in the series, if Halliburton needs Smith nemhard, these guys TJ. McConnell,
if they handle pressure well and they get the ball
over the top, over the top of your aggressive defense,
and they get you into rotation and they start scoring easily.
I think Dagnal needs to pivot quickly, not away from
ball pressure necessarily, but away from some of the aggressive
(11:21):
help in passing lanes. This is a team that if
you force Tyrese Haliburton in Pascal Siakam to score one
on one, they can. It is certainly something they can do,
but it is not the thing they do at a
superstar level. And the thing that the Tyrese Haliburton is
a superstar level playmaker every single night. This offense has
(11:42):
a wonderful rhythm in terms of attacking when that advantage
is already kind of baked into the equation. So like
those sorts of things that accentuates the Pacers' strengths, if
you force Haliburton in Seakam to play a bunch of
one on one, that accentuates one of the weaker parts
of their formula. So with that being the case, the
attentiveness in action to prevent easy openings, the communication through
(12:06):
switches and then staying home off the ball and forcing
those guys to play one on one and not conceding
the easy openings that will get them into rotation because
again they're good at it. If they're not gonna you
can pass the ball better faster, then you can move
with the ball as a ball handler, and it doesn't
matter how much they're rotating around. If they can pass
(12:27):
the ball around and beat Oklahoma City's speed with just
ball movement and quick processing and play finishing, there could
be some issues there. So I'm just really curious to
see the initial game plan, which I think will be
standard for Oklahoma City. But if it works, like here's
the thing, it might just work. You might just force
(12:47):
Indiana to pee down their leg and all of a
sudden things look really rough for them, and you never
have to bail on that game plan. But there's also
a version of this where they handle it, and if
they do, it just needs to be a quick pivot
from Mark dagnall on the other end of the floor.
We have seen in this series that the Timberwolves in
particular had a little bit more success with some of
(13:07):
their quicker on ball guards than Jaden McDaniels Nikkeil Alexander
Walker in particular, I thought did the best job at
kind of like beating shade of spots and at least
forcing him to make jump shots over the top. So
in theory we could see a lot of you know,
Aaron E. Smith weak guys. Aaron Ne Smith, over the
course of the tail end of the series has done
some serious damage to Jalen Brunson to the point where
(13:30):
he's not even looking to shoot. We went, we watched
through the entire crunch time sequence of last game in
the playback session last night, and he just didn't want
to even look to score down the stretch of that game,
in large part because of the work that Aaron Neismith did,
and again, guys like Jalen Brunson was having an unbelievable
playoff run before this kind of like trend that has
(13:51):
taken hold here at the tail end of the series.
And so with that being the case, just keep in
mind that this is going to be a different type
of defensive matchup in terms of the level of bed
foot speed on the perimeter that Indiana presents to the table.
That being said, I still think that Oklahoma City should
be able to score against this team. I just think
it's going to be a little bit different. It's going
to be a little bit less of the dribble penetration,
(14:12):
a little bit more of the kind of over the
top matchup hunting against some of the smaller guards that
the Pacers had. They do every im protection as well
with Miles Turner. So it's going to be kind of
similar to some previous series, like this Minnesota series towards
the end, as they've game planned more towards helping at
the rim, or the Dallas series last year, where you
can't just have Jadubb trying to test Miles Turner at
(14:34):
the rim all series long. There has to be processing
at the rim, quality rim decisions, moving the ball, hunting
down the great shot. But it's going to be a
very interesting series. I initially, when I first started thinking
about the series, thought Oklahoma City would beat the shit
out of them. I thought it would be like a
four or five game series. We had a little debate
last night Jackson and I. You guys can find that.
We broke it out as a clip on our YouTube channels.
(14:55):
You can find it under our list of uploads. But
Jackson is me into being a little bit more bullish
on the Pacers' chances to be more competitive in the
series because of their processing, because of their smaller, quicker
guards that can stay in front of the ball a
little bit better, some of those things. But my initial
impression at this point, before we get into our prediction phase,
(15:16):
is that the Thunder will win that series in five
or six games. Looking forward for Minnesota, and we'll have
a little bit more Thunder talk here in a minute,
because I want to talk about Alex Cruso in our
Microsoft segment with Minnesota. The Julius Randall experiment I thought
was rough. The big thing that I specifically was bothered
by was just when they ran into some real adversity,
I didn't like the way he handled it in terms
(15:38):
of just his overall competitiveness, and it was like, in
Game four, I thought he'd let go of the rope competitively.
In Game five, I thought he tried to force the
issue too much and was attacking two three bodies in
traffic and getting blocked and stolen. And basically like his
two different approaches to adversity in this series were to
not fight and to without using his head. And that
(16:02):
was the kind of frustrating thing for me watching the
Timberwolves in this series. And so I think there's some
reality to the fact that, like in retrospect, and by
the way, guys, I am fully aware of how ridiculous
this sounds after my series preview, But in retrospect, Minnesota
matched up very favorably with the Lakers, and Julius Randall
as a one on one ISO guy against big bodied forwards,
(16:24):
was a great defensive option and did a lot of
damage attacking certain types of mismatches in that series, and
was great against a Golden State Warriors team that didn't
have Steph Curry. But there are some realities to the
fact that Julius Randall has a player option and if
you up re up and pay him a massive amount
of money. You're taking up a big chunk your payroll
for a player that I didn't think handled this higher
(16:46):
leverage matchup very well. I would look to surround Anthony
Edwards with high IQ players. There's a thing that happens
when you look at this roster on paper. I mean,
there's a lot of Minnesota buzz going into this series.
You know, even I thought that Minnesota would be more
competitive in this series than they were, even though I
picked the Thunder to win. And it's because you look
on paper and it's like, man, all these dudes can
(17:08):
guard and all these dudes can shoot.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But the truth is, if like you really started to.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Talk about like high IQ basketball players, like really smart
basketball players that don't make poor decisions, that are always
in the right spot, that always seem to do the
right thing, it's Mike Conley, end of list. And So
with that being the case, especially with ant and his like,
if you're breaking down Ant's game right now, We're going
(17:36):
to talk more about Aunt in a minute. The reality
is is that ant and is not necessarily the most
high level processor that exists in the league. And I
would argue that he could learn the most in that
area and experience the most improvement in the coming years.
And so you know, a simple example like if CP
three is on the move away from San Antonio, I'd
(17:56):
be looking to bring in Chris Paul as a backup guard,
as a guy that can help ant literally just help
him understand more of the processing and game flow elements
of that. On ball roll, I would look too down
the line in terms of role players, connective playmakers, off
ball shooters, stuff like that. Look for higher IQ, smarter
players that will help him process some of these situations,
(18:18):
that know how to be in the right spots, that
won't make mistakes. I think that would be a direction
that I would look to go if I was this offseason.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Now. I saw a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Of talk on Twitter, YouTube comments, all this kind of
stuff over the last couple of days burying Anthony Edwards,
And I know what this comes from. It comes from
the fact that ant is more popular than Shay and
then Jason Tatum, And even though Tatum and Shae are
better basketball players than ant An, it's more popular. And
(18:47):
that just eats at people and it makes them super
irrational and upset, and then they take it out on
Ant when the reality is is Ant's not doing anything
but be an Ant, and he just happens to resonate
with people in a certain way, which we're going to
talk about that in a bigger picture context here when
we talk about the face of the league. But for
some reason, that just builds all this negativity towards Ant.
Here's the thing, back to back Western Conference Finals where
(19:09):
Anthony Edwards got pretty badly outplayed by his counterpart on
the other side, Luka Dancis last year, Shake gills Is
Alexander this year.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
There's no way around it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I thought that Ant faced an extremely difficult game plan
from a very very very good defense that did damage
to every single star that they ran into in this postseason.
But even within that context, he didn't do very well.
He didn't do as well as he needed to do.
There was a gap in his performance relative to what
Shae gals As Alexander did for the Thunder. So yeah,
(19:38):
I'm not about to rank Ant over Gildas Alexander or
anything like that. I think he's somewhere around the fifth
to seventh best player in the NBA kind of just
off of that kind of like reliable top tier superstar tier,
and you know, depending on the matchup, when the matchup
is right, he can kind of reach that level, but
it's clear when he reaches tougher matchups he kind of
(19:59):
feels more like a second tier star at this point.
Here's the thing. He's twenty three years old and he
just went to back to back conference finals. And yes,
he got out played by Shay and he got out
played by Luca last year. But he went to Totoe
with Nikola Jokich in a series where he beat him.
He went to Totoe with Lebron James and Luka Doncic
(20:20):
in a series where he beat them, and in that series,
repeatedly down the stretch looked like the better player as he.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Won the game.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's been uneven, it's been inconsistent, but there is literally
if we could remove the irrational emotion that Shae fans
and Tatum fans and all these people feel about Anthony
Edwards just out of jealousy for the amount of attention
that he gets, we could just take that and remove
it out of the equation and set it on the side.
And we all looked at Ant's career just with like
(20:46):
clear eyes and just a basic evaluation. We'd all say
the same thing, like flawed player, crazy upside, all sorts
of room to improve. There's no way to describe his
career up to age twenty three other than a resounding success.
There's literally no way to describe. There's all of the
other greats that went on to win titles, did it
when they were twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight years old.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Nobody does it.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Nobody conquers the demons and wins the title at age
twenty three, unless they're on a supremely talented roster like
Kobe was in two thousand or Dwayne Wade was on
the Miami Heat in two thousand and six. There are
rare examples of dudes who have success at the championship
level in kind of a supporting type of role, but.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Very rarely do you see, very rarely.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
In NBA history do you see a player actually achieve
like I'm the best player in the world status at
twenty three years old. He didn't do enough this series,
he got out played. He's doing just fine. He's doing
just fine. He made Let's just put it this way, guys,
do you think Aunt got substantially better from last year
to this year. Yes, absolutely, twenty two year old Aunt
(21:56):
failed got in the gym, became one of the best time,
the best tie volume three point shooter in the league.
Showed a lot of higher level processing in this postseason run.
Not enough, but showed a lot of higher level processing
and took a leap. He's one step closer to his
ultimate goals. He's not there yet, give him time. He's
twenty three years old. Ant's development will be the key
(22:17):
though for this team going over the top. There are
some realities to being in a roster this build with
some of these older veteran guys that make a lot
of money. There's not a lot of like, let's go
bring in more talent type of situation going on here
with Minnesota. Now, they can find better types of talent.
They can find talent that is better fitting. We talked
earlier about basketball IQ. But ultimately it will be Ant's
(22:39):
individual improvement that will get him to where he needs
to go. Shake Yodess Alexander to me, I think has
in this playoff run very clearly snatched the title of
being the second best player in the world behind Nikole Jokich.
I think he's got a better case than Yannis. I
think he's got a better case than Luca. At this point.
He is clearly to me in that second spot. The
reason why he has that spot is he has flashed
(23:01):
in this postseason run defense that is above average, the
ability to score regardless of circumstance. Like Minnesota switched up
their game plan, packed the paint and put him through
a lot of the same stuff that Ant has saw
in this series. And in the pivotal game he hung
forty points in ten assist, the incredible dribble penetration, the processing,
the playmaking has gone up a massive level for him
(23:23):
compared to last year. And like there was a it's
very similar to Ant in the sense that Sga kind
of had a little bit of a rough playmaking series
last year in the postseason. It has been a thing
that he has substantially improved upon in this postseason. Because again,
failure is what breeds the motivation that gets these guys
to figure things out and take that next step. That's
(23:45):
where Shay's at. Shay is what three years ahead of
schedule on Shay. On Ant, he's three years older than him.
He is currently, in my opinion, firmly holding onto that
number two.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Spot.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I think he's anchored himself there. I think he's got
a very very very very good chance to win a
time title this year and put that first feather in
his cap. But the processing that Shay has gone through
in the last few years, if you look at the
player Shay was in twenty twenty three and you look
at the player that he is now, there has been
these improvements that have taken place as an over the
top shot maker, as a half court processor, as a
(24:17):
defensive player that have vaulted him into a situation where
he is the second best player in the NBA. That
is the track that Ant has to follow. Minuscule improvements
year over year in key areas understanding the game and processing,
handling the ball against ball pressure and making those kickout
raads in traffic, building out a back to back to
the basket game, the ability to score over both shoulders
(24:38):
at the high posts and in the mid post and
on the low post. All of those different things are
things that He's going to have to build out in
order to reach the level that Shay is at right now.
But again, as I said, Shay's been doing this three
years longer. Shay is at the age when typically the
all time great players in our league start to figure
(25:00):
it out and take their stake their claim at the
top of the league. Ant is a head of schedule, guys.
He's ahead of schedule, and like the burying of him
that I've seen over the course of the last couple
of days just reeks of insecurity, and honestly, it's it's
reprehensible to me, but it is what it is. He's
doing just fine at twenty three years old. Back to
(25:23):
back Western Conference Finals appearances, and literally the sky is
the limit for what he can accomplish in the future.
And honestly, as a basketball fan, I'm super fun or
super pumped because I think the Shay versus Ant kind
of rivalry could end up being a very very interesting
rivalry in this coming era. It kind of reminds me
of the Lebron's deph rivalry in the sense that, like,
(25:45):
Lebron is three years older and was obviously further along
in the deal, but the two of them just kind
of like seem to have this rivalry that existed over
the course of their careers. I would love to see
Ant and Shae face off in the postseason five more
times over the course of the next ten years, and
hopefully that ends up being something that we get to see.
It's a very fun rivalry. All right, Welcome to course correction,
(26:05):
brought to you by Microsoft. Just like star players and
teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under
immense pressure to get things right. They must rise to
the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries
with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management and trustworthy,
responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA, you have
your own hurdles to face. In this segment, we will
(26:27):
highlight the player every week that has risen to the
occasion when his team needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing,
Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on.
The player we're highlighting this week is Alex Caruso of
the Oklahoma City Thunder. Looking back at last year's potseason
run for Oklahoma City, if you guys remember they had.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
A fifth starter problem.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Team started putting their center on Josh Giddey and sagging
into the paint and things just really bogged down for
them offensively. It was one of the few weak points
that that team was dealing with They tried a bunch
of different guys in his spot, a rookie version of
Cason Wallace, Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe, but none of them
were able to bring the combination of size and versatile
defense and offensive utility that Alex Crusoe has brought to
(27:09):
this team. So Sam Pressy, Sam Presty, excuse me, pulls
off two very savvy moves this summer, one signing Isaiah
Hartenstein away from the New York Knicks. Obviously, Isaiah was
hividly important during the second round win versus the Denver Nuggets,
a little less so in this series, but he still
had his moments. And then trading Josh Giddy straight up
with no draft compensation for Alex Crusoe. A player that
(27:33):
is universally recognized as one of the best role player
wings in the NBA. A player that started an NBA
Finals game for the twenty twenty Lakers. A player who
has since then turned him turned himself into a much
more reliable offensive player than he used to be. He
was always a gifted cutter with the Lakers, but he's
become a very good connective playmaker. He's become very good
(27:55):
as a catch and shoot three point shooter. He hit
forty four percent of his threes coming into in this
postseason run. But I want to focus on his defense
for a minute, because he's putting together one of the
best defensive playoff runs.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
You'll see.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He's averaging four stocks per thirty six minutes in his
playoff run that steals plus blocks and this is a
consistent thing. By the way, he averaged the same amount
in the regular season. Basically, the only guy this year
to exceed that output with at least forty six games
played was Victor Wemenyama, and I chose forty six games
played because that's how many games Victor women Yama played,
(28:29):
But he was the only guy that averaged more stocks
per thirty six minutes at that minimum number of games played.
This year's Victor Wenmnyama Dyson Daniels matched Alex Crusoe's performance,
but Victor was the only one who exceeded it. He
was that level of disruptive, defensive wrecking ball in this postseason.
There have been some high profile assignments, like he did
(28:51):
a lot of quality work.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
On Ant in this series.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He did an amazing job on Nikola Jokic in Game seven,
in that second round series that arguably saved Oklahoma City
from disaster, fronting the post and single handedly decomposing that
Nuggets offense. But in the big picture, the funnest thing
for me to watch as a fan has just been
his defensive game playmaking literally anytime he sees someone try
(29:13):
to dribble against him that has a questionable handle, like
usually if it's a guy who's in rotation attacking a
closeout or a guy in t Like there have been
a half dozen plays in this postseason where some guy
had like a one on one against Alex Crusoe in
transition and was like, I'm going to try to score
on it, and it's like his eyes just light up
(29:34):
and he.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Just sees a turnover.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
He just attacks the basketball with physicality, and whoever it
is that's trying to dribble just immediately soils themselves and
flubs the ball away. He's the type of defensive player
that you basically have no choice but to run your
action on the other side of the floor whenever you can.
You want to keep him out of the play if
at all possible. I truly believe that the Thunder lose
in Round two this year if not for the work
(29:57):
that Alex Crusoe did in that series, the workie he
did on Nicole Jokicchen Game seven, but also the on
ball defensive work throughout the series. He also hit fifteen
threes in that series. He had nineteen assists with just
six turnovers in that series. As I said on the
show Monday night, and as I said earlier tonight, I
think it's a near certainty that the Thunder win the
(30:18):
title at this point, and so you got an immediate
championship level return for the Thunder given by Alex Caruso.
That's it for this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI
solutions power empower you to take bold steps and make
informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward.
If Microsoft is your trusted partner, you can navigate your
(30:40):
journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities.
Visit Microsoft dot com slash challengers to learn more. All right,
our last segment before we get into our mailbag, the
face of the League talk. There's been a lot of
talk about the current.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
State of the NBA.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Who's going to be the face of the league now
that Lebron and Steph are gone, are going out aging
out in the process. At least is the NBA screwed
because two small markets are facing off in the NBA Finals?
Does the league need to do a better job of
marketing its young stars? The main thing I want to
focus on tonight is that last question, because I think
(31:17):
the answer is relevant for all of those questions, and
I think the perfect way to frame this conversation is
to look at our two previous faces of the league,
Lebron and Steph, which, by the way, this isn't a
real thing. There's not an assignment for face of the league.
It's just Lebron and Steph are far and away the
most famous players of their generation.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
They just are.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's them two and then a giant gap before you
get to Kevin Durant, James Harden the other guys in
those tiers. Like, even as famous as those guys are,
Lebron and Steph are just on another level. Did the
league make Lebron and Steph into stars? Did they run
sophisticated marketing campaigns? Did they make them get drafted by
(32:01):
big market teams like the Knicks or the Lakers. No,
we think of the Warriors now as one of the
big markets in the league, as one of the most
valuable franchises in the NBA. But they just sold in
twenty ten for like what the four hundred and fifty million.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Like they are.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think it was a little bit less than that,
but they just sold for a little over four hundred million.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Nobody thought of the Warriors as a big market juggernaut
before Steph made them into that. The Cleveland Cavaliers are
now a four billion dollar franchise and they have a
viable fan base that is ravenous. For this new Cleveland
Cavaliers iteration, Lebron made them into that that it doesn't
(32:53):
matter if it's the Pacers in Indiana or it's the
Thunder in Oklahoma City. It doesn't matter where a guy
gets drafted. Lebron and Steph have proved that you can
supersede that and create legendary status for a smaller market
for a player regardless of what the league does. Lebron
and Steph made themselves in two faces of the league.
(33:16):
How two ways. One they were must see television. Lebron
James in his prime was arguably the best combination of
size and athleticism ever to play sports. You couldn't watch
a game in his prime without seeing a half dozen
absurd highlights. Crazy dunks, crazy layups, crazy chase down blocks,
(33:37):
absurd you know, jump passes that nobody other player in
the league could make jumping a passing lane. We think
of him as like a savvy, old veteran player now,
but back in the day, he was a nuclear athlete.
Every once in a while, some Lebron fan page on
Twitter will tweet some video highlight of Lebron in like
(33:57):
two thousand and nine or something, and it'll come across
my feet and I'm always like, oh my god, I
forgot this dude moved just different than anyone else in
the league. And Steph Curry's far and away the greatest
shot maker in the history of the NBA. His hot
streaks were unlike anything we had ever seen before. I
remember in twenty twenty one when he was routinely going
(34:19):
off after the All Star break, it was like, whatever
you were doing, you had to stop when Steph was
on a hot streak and just get to a television
because it was musty TV, even for non you know,
like guys that aren't necessarily super successful in the championship stage,
like Kyrie only has one championship, but he is a
profoundly entertaining player with a huge fan base. Why because
(34:43):
he's must see television. When you're watching Kyrie irving, chain together,
dribble combinations and doing the things he does on the court,
it resonates with people. It just does Anthony Edwards. Anthony
Edwards is not as good at basketball as Shay, but
he is absolutely more aesthetically appealing and that is why
he he has such a huge, ravenous fan base behind him.
(35:03):
The second part of it is the success from twenty
twelve to twenty twenty two. Lebron and Steph literally won
eight championships in eleven years, and the three years they
didn't win the championship, they were in the finals two
of them. One of them was in the finals Lebron
in twenty fourteen, Steph in twenty nineteen. You could not
(35:25):
turn on your TV in June without seeing Lebron or
Steph on the television. That's how they became legends. It's both,
you gotta have both. We've seen players like Tim Duncan
that won a lot, but that didn't resonate with people
because there wasn't an esthetically appealing element to his game.
I still feel like there's a huge chunk of casual
(35:46):
fans that don't really get the Jokic thing because there's
not a huge aesthetically appealing part of his game. But
if you can do both, if you can be must
see television and you can consistently play in June and
succeed in June, that is the kind of thing that
can influence the public. There is no marketing campaign that
(36:09):
can influence the public like that. Every media entity covering
the NBA, from myself to the people on ESPN or
whoever it is, we could talk about Shay and Tyrese
Halliburton every day for the next year and it would
not influence the public the way that they could on
ABC in June. That is where they win over the
hearts and minds of the people. Anyone can become a legend.
(36:33):
It doesn't matter if you're in Oklahoma City or New
York City. People don't even watch the same media anymore.
All of us consume NBA content from one hundred different
sources that perfectly fit what we like to hear. Some
people want superficial stuff, some people want way in the weeds.
Some people want team specific stuff. Some people want national media,
some people want television. Some people want more of the
(36:55):
podcast type of format. Some of you guys are big
YouTube people. A lot of people do streaming services like
playback where they can be more interactive. Like, there's a
million ways to consume NBA media. There isn't even a
way in which the NBA could like force a star
on us. The Internet is a tool that makes the
quality of your work matter. The algorithm it's about for
(37:17):
all of us content creators, it's about maintaining eyeballs. That's
literally all that matters when it comes to the Internet.
You have to bring the aura and the success that
captures the attention of the people. Lebron and Steph it
doesn't matter where they've played in their careers. They have
global fan bases. But it cannot be given to you
(37:39):
or forced on you. It has to be earned. So
here's the thing. This year's NBA Finals won't get good
TV ratings, and that's fine. It's kind of inevitable under
the circumstances. There's kind of a natural gap that exists
between the eras that we're in right now, So it
doesn't really matter what Shape and Tyree have done there
(38:01):
in their mid twenties, they haven't been around long enough
to influence people the way they need to. This is
this was inevitable. But the question is hand players like SGA,
like Tyrese Halliburn, or teams like the Thunder or the Pacers,
can they become faces of the NBA? Can they become
the kinds of cultural forces that those old Warriors teams were,
(38:23):
Cavs teams were that Lebron and Steph were. They certainly can.
Like with SGA, you need both, right, You need success
and you need to be musty television. So continually making
it to this point, continually winning games, that'll go a
long way for SGA. But there is a reality to
(38:43):
the fact. And again I know Thunder fans are super
sensitive about this and they always have a conniption fit
every time it gets brought up. But there is a
reality to the fact that Shay sometimes has a hard
time resonating with casual fans because of some of the weird,
non basketball, foul grifty stuff he does. He will become
a legend and an icon by hitting contested mid range
(39:05):
jump shots in the finals, not by lurching into defenders'
bodies and grabbing their arms and throwing up fake shots
like we can talk all we want about how the
rule book is the rule book and you've got to
find a way not to foul. And yess, he's a
competitor that's just finding every advantage. Oh, that's true. The
casual fan does not care. You guys that are watching me.
(39:26):
You don't watch this show because you're casual fans. You
watch the show because you love basketball. We are the
nut jobs. We're not the people that Shay has to
win over. Shay has to win over the general public,
and he's not going to win over the general public
doing all that foul grifty shit. He absolutely has that potential, though,
because he is legitimately a top tier shot maker. Coming
(39:50):
into tonight, he was shooting fifty four percent on jump
shots inside of seventeen feet. He won a pivotal playoff
game with it in the second half of Game FI.
If he has more moments like that, in fewer moments
like Game two where he puts up a monster stat
line but takes like seven or eight of the most
ridiculous fake shot attempts I've ever seen, If he has
(40:11):
more moments like that second half in Game four, he
will become a legend. I absolutely think he could become
a fan favorite. As for Halliburton, I think his pathway
is shooting. As we've seen with Steph, that can be
a musty television type of show. His shooting run in
Game four was musky television. If he can improve as
(40:32):
a three point shooter to the type of dynamic guy
that can get super super hot and regularly hit five
seven threes a game, I think he could resonate with fans.
Combine that with the same success in June, he could
become a legend. The point is the point I'm trying
to make the younger generation guys like Halliburton, SGA, even
(40:52):
Anthony Edwards, they absolutely can become the faces of the NBA,
victor Women, Yama, Cooper, Flagg, whoever it ends up being.
But nobody is gonna give it to them. The NBA
can't do.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It for them.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
They have to take it, and they have to take
it by becoming what Lebron and Steph were, by becoming legends,
by being musty television, by winning basketball games on ABC
and June. All right, I'm off my soapbox.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
All right, Jackson.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Let's take a five ten minutes of questions and then
we'll head over to playback.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
We got a couple of super Chat questions to start with.
One from Dave.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
He said, thunderfan here, love your content. In what aspect
do you think the thunder have grown most from last
season that has resulted in them sort of getting over
the at least this step of the hump.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think there's two obvious pieces, because like there's there's
you know, the talent increase that inherently comes from young
guys aging and uh bringing in key role players like
Crusoe and Hartenstein. But overall, I thought they're playmaking in
the middle of the floor, just the decisions they made
in the middle of the floor in traffic in the series,
and then the confidence with which they stepped into three
point shots like they legitimately time time and time again
(42:01):
in this postseason when we have seen them in this
regular season, even in this postseason early in the Denver series,
like we've seen them kind of lose their confidence in
catch and shoot situations. They've just been a very dependable
catch and shoot three point shooting team in this postseason run,
and I think it's been. I think it's been especially
in big spots when they've needed to be And so
(42:22):
I think I think that like connective playmaking piece, the
not forcing shit at the rim, making those kickout passes
and guys stepping into threes has been their biggest area
of growth.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Another super Track question, this one from JM. He says
SGA is a combination of the three greatest shooting guards
of the early two thousands, Kobe's size and footwork, d
Wade's sort of consistency and ability to drive to the
room and finish, and Manud's craftiness.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Thoughts the Kobe and Manu stuff I agree with. I
don't really see Dean Dwayne Wade in in Uh Shay
that much, just because Shaye is kind of more of
like a spindly, wiry, kind of like funky moving athlete
he is.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
I think Shay's first step is underrated.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I think he's incredibly quick off the bounce, but I
don't think it looks anything like with Dwayne Wade was
like quite literally nuclear downhill athleticism with the ability to
the thing that Wade could do that was crazy was
he could change direction at full speed, So like if
you watched if you watched Wade, he would like come
at this angle at full speed and then split the
pick and roll back at this angle, and it would
(43:25):
literally look like he didn't even stop. He would just
like knife through the lane. I don't think he quite
has that athletic impact that Dwayne Wade had, but I
think the man who Genobili and Kobe comparisons make a
lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
It's like, when was the last time you shot you
saw Shade dunk over someone in traffic? It hasn't happened,
but that first step and the other aspects I like
those comparisons.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Actually one more super tech question.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Then we got a couple others supertech question from Michael
He said fan from Puerto Rico. After two Western Conference
finals back to back, is it's still fair to use
the he's just twenty.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Three years old? With Anthony Edwards, I feel like you
answered earlier, but.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
It guys, who's the example. Who's the example of a guy?
Like if you have a counter example, if there are
like five six other dudes who like clearly looked better
than Ant at twenty three, then sure let's have that conversation.
I just don't like this is this is literally like
the the fact that ant is having this success so
early in his career is causing everybody to lose their minds.
(44:23):
It doesn't usually look like this, Like most of these
dudes are not even getting close to this level by
this point. Like how many players by the age of
twenty three eliminated the best player in the world in
a playoff series, eliminated a team that Luka Doncic, John
Lebron James on it, Like how many teams have been
able to do that? Like he swept Kevin Durant and
(44:44):
Devin Booker and the Suns and was like it was
like clowning on them that entire series. Like I think,
I think there are some realities to the fact that
he's shown some vulnerability to certain types of matchups, but
I think overall, he's clearly improving year over year like that.
That's the second piece I would say, is like I
would be so much more in line with this, Like
can we keep saying he's twenty three when this is
(45:05):
his second Western Conference Finals if he didn't look obviously
better than he did last year, So let me actually
pitch that back to you, Jackson, Am I out of
am I out of my mind for thinking it is
clearly better this year than he was last year.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
No, no, no, no, I don't think so. I mean, I
think the development and from him as a shooter is
really remarkable. He was a fine, okay shooter coming in
for the first couple of seasons, and he was like
a good shooter last year. But he is a great
shooter this year.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Great.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
He led the league in or was it de leete
the league or he won short of Leage Beasley? I
forget in three point makes.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
But he led the league I think, and that is like,
you're not doing that unless you are really putting in
all of that work.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
So no, I don't. I don't think it's out of
bounds at all.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
He was number one by one over Maleague Beasley at
three nineteen right.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Right exactly, and a lot of people in the chat
and sort of, you know, as people would compare the
two are talking about dwayn Wade and how he won
the finals at twenty four years old or however he was,
and it's like he won the finals of twenty four
and no one else has really done that, and he
did it one time, he didn't make it to the
finals again.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
He made it to the final.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
He only made it to the finals the one time
before he got Lebron James as his team, which is
not a shot at Dayne Wade.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Is just to say that it's very very rare.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
And you're like, well, he's not Dwayne Wade, then okay,
he's not the fourth greatest shooting guard of all time
or whatever, right, Like he's not in the you know,
he's not in the.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Pantheon yet, and I don't think anyone like that's fine.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
He can be amazing and not be Dwayne Wade.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
And also, like to your point, like Wade legitimately lost
some of the talent after that year, and then he
could not bring his teams to any sort of legitimate
playoff success after that point until Lebron James came around,
Like I to me, to me, the the Dwayne Wade
performance in two thousand and six is very much like
a flash in the play flash in the pain kind
(46:50):
of like playoff performance that was like a kind of
unique compared to anything else in NBA history. There's like
it like doesn't really there's really nothing you can compare
it too, right.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
And someone in the chat just said, people who are
better at age twenty three Luca d Wave, Lebron Magic,
MJ Bird, Will duncan check. Cool, pretty great, pretty shortly, amazing,
amazing group for Anthony Edwards to be a part of. Right,
I wouldn't argue with any of those names, and I
don't think and that's fine. If Anthony Edwards is the
tenth best twenty three year old ever, like he's on
a pretty good trajectory.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Well, and let me let me take this one step further,
because let's let's let's follow this thought process through to fruition.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
So, okay, Lebron James is, in my opinion, the best
best basketball player ever, in most people's opinion, the second
best basketball player ever, one of the top two. Like
that's like he's unassailable in terms of career trajectory. What
if we were all on Twitter back in two thousand
and five, two thousand and six, two thousand and seven,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, and it
was like, oh, he makes it to the finals and
(47:49):
plays bad against the Spurs and gets eliminated. Then he
has a big statistical performing series against Boston in two
thousand and seven, but gets but loses and gets outplayed
by Paul Pierce in Game seven. In two thousand and
eight was the uh Two thousand and seven was the
Finals run. Two thousand and eight was the one year
that they lost to the Celtics. Two thousand and nine
(48:11):
puts up massive numbers but loses to an Orlando Magic
team in six games. Twenty ten like legitimately doesn't play
well down the stretch of a series against Boston and loses,
Like at that point he was already twenty six. Like
guys like this could have been, Like this is the
phase of careers where every star in NBA history has
inconsistent and flawed results.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's do one more question, then
we'll go over to playback.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
Okay, this is an interesting one as we're talking about
summer plans for the Minnesota Timberwolves as a franchise.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Does Kevin Durant make sense for Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I think it makes a ton of sense for Minnesota.
Oh my god, this is gonna get me thinking.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I think he's a high IQ player.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I think he's a incredible shooter and a very useful
defensive player. I love the idea of surrounding Kevin Durant
with tons of physicality, which has been the exact opposite
of what's what he's been around since he left Golden State. Uh,
oh my god, this is we need to take this
concept over to playback and think a little bit more
(49:19):
about it, because that's something I need to think about.
But yeah, like I think, I think, shit, man, I
almost like that better than any other option that I've
seen thrown around. I don't know how they would be
able to make it work because I think Julius's salary
would be tough to match with Kd's, and then I
think they're second apron, so they'd have a hard time
aggregating salaries. They'd have to shed salary this summer somehow.
(49:41):
Let me rephrase it like this, like, and we can
talk about this on playback, but like, would you waive
the rights to nas reed so that you can get
Kevin Durant like that?
Speaker 3 (49:52):
That's that's where it gets kind of tricky.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
But because they might have to do something like that
or offload a bunch of salary in order to make
it work. But man, like, just thinking purely about the
basketball and Kevin Durant being in the Julius Randall spot
I think that all of a sudden becomes a much
more interesting basketball team. All right, guys, it's all we
have for tonight on YouTube. We're heading over to play
back again. That's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Come over there.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
If you're angry at me about my rants, bring your
energy over there. Let's let's debate, let's have some fun.
We're just gonna talk some hoops, watch some film, hang
out for a little bit. I'll see you guys over
there just in just a few minutes. But for our
YouTube crowd things. As always, for the support, We'll be
back tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Eastern Conference
Finals Game five.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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Slash audio. All right, welcome to Hoosadi here at the
(02:03):
volume heavy wins there everybody. Hope all of you guys
are having a great week, well as expected. The Oklahoma
City thunder delivered the death blow to the Minnesota Timberwolves tonight,
immediately out the gates, just kicking their ass.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And it started with their defense.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We can talk about Shay and j Dubb, and those
two guys have had incredible offensive moments in this postseason run.
I think Game four is a great example of a
game that those two guys won with their offense. But
the best attribute of the Oklahoma City Thunder is their
defense and holding the Minnesota Timberwolves to just thirty two
points in the first half as they make their way
(02:35):
to the NBA Finals. We're going to be very briefly
talking about that game. We're going to be mostly looking
forward for Oklahoma City and Minnesota after that. For our
Microsoft Course Correction segment this week, I want to talk
a little bit about Alex.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Caruso the tail end of the show.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
There's been a lot of debate over the course of
the last couple of days about the current state of
the NBA. Specifically, we've talked about refereeing and stuff like that.
I want to focus in more on the concept of
the face of the lead and some of the complaining
about Oklahoma City and Indiana being in the finals as
small markets, and some of the stuff about whether or
not the league needs to market some of these teams better.
(03:10):
I want to kind of dive into that concept, the
transition from the Steph lebron kd era into this new era,
and just some of the realities that face down stars
like Shay Gils, Alexander and Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards and
other guys who want to make an imprint on this league.
And so that'll be our third segment tonight, and then
when we are at when we are done with all
(03:31):
of that, we'll take five to ten minutes of questions
from the mail bag, So make sure you guys get
your questions into the chat. You guys are the joke
before we get started. To subscribe to hoops Cent. Subscribe
to the Hoops and O YouTube channel so you don't
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at underscore jcnlt so you guys don't miss show announcement. Still,
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on our hoops tonight. It's also super helpful if you
leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's
doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
(03:53):
Make sure you guys follow us there and keep dropping
mailbag questions in the chat so that we can get
to them. At the tail end of the show. Also,
when we finish here tonight, right it over to playback again.
That's playback dot TV slash shops tonight, We're gonna, you know,
take callers, We'll watch some film, we'll have some fun.
It'll just be a it'll just be like a more
informal kind of environment where we can all talk hoops together.
(04:14):
So make sure you guys follow us over to playback
when we finish up tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So what an ass.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Kicking that was?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I thought Oklahoma City came right out the gates with
an absurd defensive effort and the Wolves kind of just crumbled. Specifically,
the role player talent couldn't really handle the physicality. I
thought Ant looked a little shook early. Julius was a
little strong early, like it kind of looked a little
bit more engaged early, but then Aunt woke up. But
it didn't really matter. There was just a huge amount
(04:43):
of pressure and intensity. Ants pull up three point shot
kind of abandoned him in this series, similar to what
happened in the Western Conference Finals last year. And honestly,
the wheels came off quickly and there one really a
whole lot of chance there for Minnesota to try to
close the gap again. Like we can talk about all
the different offensive talent on this team, and this Thunder
offense has been impressive, as we've talked about them needing
(05:03):
to conquer their demons in terms of spot up shooting
and decision making for shake yieldes Alexander and some of
the youthful inconsistency from j dub which has gone completely
by the wayside since Game seven of the Denver Nuggets series.
And we can talk about all that, but the best
attribute that this team has is their defense, and that's
the thing that I think is going to win them
the title. I said this after Game four. I thought
(05:26):
Minnesota's chance at home to tie that series at two
was the last chance, the last barrier. There's obviously games
to win, but the last substantial barrier that stood in
the way between them and winning the title, and they
conquered that. And I at this point, I would be
absolutely stunned if Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Didn't win the title.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you know, we've talked a lot about the uh
what makes an all time great team, and I've been
talking about this over the years, Like as we talked
about Boston last year as everyone wanted to talk about
their net rating and different things like that, or Oklahoma
City this year and talk about their net rating in
the regular season. You don't become all time great in
the regular season. You just don't. You don't unless you
win seventy games. Like that's just the reality. When we
(06:07):
talk about the all time great teams, we talk about
the seventy three win Warriors losing, and we talk about
the seventy two win Bulls, right, But like, when you
get to the postseason, that is where you can make
a name for yourself. That is where you can become
a legend. That's going to be a theme when we
get into that face of the league conversation. This defense
has been reputed as being an all time great defense
(06:28):
third during the regular season based on the statistical performance
of the defense. I'd argue what puts them into that
conversation is the job that they did in this postseason.
I have never seen Nikole Jokic in his prime play
three consecutive bad playoff games. Oksee did that to him.
Oklahoma City made Julius Randall when he had for two rounds,
(06:48):
revitalized his playoff reputation. They completely exposed him like a
completely and utterly exposed him in the series to the
point where I thought he kind of let go of
the rope in terms of his effort and competitiveness in
Game four, Anthony Edwards in the wonderful postseason he had
been having shut him down in this series relative to
(07:09):
what his previous production was. This is where you can
make a name for yourself and the next step if
you shut down that Tyrese Haliburton led high octane Indiana
Pacers offense, that is the last piece of the puzzle
that can cement you as one of the defenses that
we will remember in NBA history. It almost feels like
there are steps to solving the Thunder puzzle. I was
(07:31):
thinking about this during the first half tonight. It felt
like we couldn't even really get to the kind of
the normal chain of playmaking with Aunt and Julius and
them having disparate to the corners and attacking closeouts and
breaking down Oklahoma City's defense incrementally because they couldn't handle
the ball pressure at the beginning of the possessions. It
feels like the first step to solving the Thunder puzzle
(07:53):
is you got to get the ball to the spots
that you need the ball to begin, whether it's a
specific action that you're looking to run, a specific post mismatch,
something along those lines. And if you fail that test,
like if you can't even get the ball to your spots,
then you're just dead on arrival. Lou dorton Alex Caruso
with seven steals tonight. We'll talk more about Caruso in
(08:14):
particular here in a few minutes. But like absolute wrecking balls,
you're watching them try to throw the ball to Julius
Randa on the post case on Wallace knocks the ball
off of his chest. Oh, he finally gets a deep
post catch on a transition seal. Oh, he tries to
go up against a triple team and just gets swatted
off the glass. They completely disrupted Minnesota before they could
even get to the actions that they wanted to get to.
(08:35):
It was an incredibly impressive performance from the Thunder. Now,
looking forward to the finals, there's a lot of different
dynamics that we're gonna be looking at, and this is
just gonna be a little brief teaser. Again, we're gonna
have a full series preview. Most I think that the
Pacers have a good chance to win tomorrow night, because
I think the Knicks probably know they blew their chance.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I think the Knicks have like roughly one out of
three chance of winning that game tomorrow night. But then
the pay I think are almost certainly going to win
in Game six. So we will have a series preview
when the time comes. We're gonna wait until we get
a final result out of the Eastern Conference Finals. But
my initial impression is going to have a lot to
do with the game plan. I think that for Mark Dagnall,
(09:15):
this team's identity is what you saw tonight and forward aggression,
battling at the point of attack with ball pressure, denying
high post entries, doing everything you can to disrupt offense
early in the sequence. And it's gonna be tricky because
Indiana doesn't really turn the basketball over. Tyris Saliburton in particular,
(09:35):
is one of the best guards in the league at
taking care of the basketball. He's under averaging less than
two turnovers per game in this postseason run. He's also
particularly gifted over the top passer, which is going to
be the kind of opening that Okac is going to
have to concede in their defensive scheme, but I do
think it's worthwhile, considering that this is their identity. I
think it's worthwhile to at least throw that punch at
(09:55):
the beginning of game one, meaning picking up full court,
pressuring the ball, trying to stop the Pacers from getting
into their half court flow, and trying to see if
you can turn them over. My big key there would
be Mark Dagnault being willing to pivot if it doesn't work.
So if it's clear right in the first you know
quarter and a half of Game one, that the ball
(10:16):
pressure isn't bothering them and that they're getting the ball
over the top to the weak side and they're starting
to get you into rotation consistently, I think Dagnalton needs
to pivot quickly. The Pacers have been a very difficult
team to beat in Indiana especially and must win games. Yeah,
they've dropped a couple of games when they're up two
to oh in the series, but when you have two
to oh on the road, it's like the biggest that's
(10:37):
the most dominant start to a series you can possibly
have is to go up two to oh on the road,
And so those games were a little bit weird in
terms of a lack of intensity from Indiana, and in
both games it kind of lost their identity. You don't
want to trick off an early game in the series
to the Pacers because of a bad game plan and
then go into a situation where they smell blood and
they see the trophy and they get a couple of
(10:59):
wins in Indiana, all of a sudden you're staring down
the barrel of a three to one deficit. So early
in the series, if Halliburton needs Smith nemhard, these guys TJ. McConnell,
if they handle pressure well and they get the ball
over the top, over the top of your aggressive defense,
and they get you into rotation and they start scoring easily.
I think Dagnal needs to pivot quickly, not away from
ball pressure necessarily, but away from some of the aggressive
(11:21):
help in passing lanes. This is a team that if
you force Tyrese Haliburton in Pascal Siakam to score one
on one, they can. It is certainly something they can do,
but it is not the thing they do at a
superstar level. And the thing that the Tyrese Haliburton is
a superstar level playmaker every single night. This offense has
(11:42):
a wonderful rhythm in terms of attacking when that advantage
is already kind of baked into the equation. So like
those sorts of things that accentuates the Pacers' strengths, if
you force Haliburton in Seakam to play a bunch of
one on one, that accentuates one of the weaker parts
of their formula. So with that being the case, the
attentiveness in action to prevent easy openings, the communication through
(12:06):
switches and then staying home off the ball and forcing
those guys to play one on one and not conceding
the easy openings that will get them into rotation because
again they're good at it. If they're not gonna you
can pass the ball better faster, then you can move
with the ball as a ball handler, and it doesn't
matter how much they're rotating around. If they can pass
(12:27):
the ball around and beat Oklahoma City's speed with just
ball movement and quick processing and play finishing, there could
be some issues there. So I'm just really curious to
see the initial game plan, which I think will be
standard for Oklahoma City. But if it works, like here's
the thing, it might just work. You might just force
(12:47):
Indiana to pee down their leg and all of a
sudden things look really rough for them, and you never
have to bail on that game plan. But there's also
a version of this where they handle it, and if
they do, it just needs to be a quick pivot
from Mark dagnall on the other end of the floor.
We have seen in this series that the Timberwolves in
particular had a little bit more success with some of
(13:07):
their quicker on ball guards than Jaden McDaniels Nikkeil Alexander
Walker in particular, I thought did the best job at
kind of like beating shade of spots and at least
forcing him to make jump shots over the top. So
in theory we could see a lot of you know,
Aaron E. Smith weak guys. Aaron Ne Smith, over the
course of the tail end of the series has done
some serious damage to Jalen Brunson to the point where
(13:30):
he's not even looking to shoot. We went, we watched
through the entire crunch time sequence of last game in
the playback session last night, and he just didn't want
to even look to score down the stretch of that game,
in large part because of the work that Aaron Neismith did,
and again, guys like Jalen Brunson was having an unbelievable
playoff run before this kind of like trend that has
(13:51):
taken hold here at the tail end of the series.
And so with that being the case, just keep in
mind that this is going to be a different type
of defensive matchup in terms of the level of bed
foot speed on the perimeter that Indiana presents to the table.
That being said, I still think that Oklahoma City should
be able to score against this team. I just think
it's going to be a little bit different. It's going
to be a little bit less of the dribble penetration,
(14:12):
a little bit more of the kind of over the
top matchup hunting against some of the smaller guards that
the Pacers had. They do every im protection as well
with Miles Turner. So it's going to be kind of
similar to some previous series, like this Minnesota series towards
the end, as they've game planned more towards helping at
the rim, or the Dallas series last year, where you
can't just have Jadubb trying to test Miles Turner at
(14:34):
the rim all series long. There has to be processing
at the rim, quality rim decisions, moving the ball, hunting
down the great shot. But it's going to be a
very interesting series. I initially, when I first started thinking
about the series, thought Oklahoma City would beat the shit
out of them. I thought it would be like a
four or five game series. We had a little debate
last night Jackson and I. You guys can find that.
We broke it out as a clip on our YouTube channels.
(14:55):
You can find it under our list of uploads. But
Jackson is me into being a little bit more bullish
on the Pacers' chances to be more competitive in the
series because of their processing, because of their smaller, quicker
guards that can stay in front of the ball a
little bit better, some of those things. But my initial
impression at this point, before we get into our prediction phase,
(15:16):
is that the Thunder will win that series in five
or six games. Looking forward for Minnesota, and we'll have
a little bit more Thunder talk here in a minute,
because I want to talk about Alex Cruso in our
Microsoft segment with Minnesota. The Julius Randall experiment I thought
was rough. The big thing that I specifically was bothered
by was just when they ran into some real adversity,
I didn't like the way he handled it in terms
(15:38):
of just his overall competitiveness, and it was like, in
Game four, I thought he'd let go of the rope competitively.
In Game five, I thought he tried to force the
issue too much and was attacking two three bodies in
traffic and getting blocked and stolen. And basically like his
two different approaches to adversity in this series were to
not fight and to without using his head. And that
(16:02):
was the kind of frustrating thing for me watching the
Timberwolves in this series. And so I think there's some
reality to the fact that, like in retrospect, and by
the way, guys, I am fully aware of how ridiculous
this sounds after my series preview, But in retrospect, Minnesota
matched up very favorably with the Lakers, and Julius Randall
as a one on one ISO guy against big bodied forwards,
(16:24):
was a great defensive option and did a lot of
damage attacking certain types of mismatches in that series, and
was great against a Golden State Warriors team that didn't
have Steph Curry. But there are some realities to the
fact that Julius Randall has a player option and if
you up re up and pay him a massive amount
of money. You're taking up a big chunk your payroll
for a player that I didn't think handled this higher
(16:46):
leverage matchup very well. I would look to surround Anthony
Edwards with high IQ players. There's a thing that happens
when you look at this roster on paper. I mean,
there's a lot of Minnesota buzz going into this series.
You know, even I thought that Minnesota would be more
competitive in this series than they were, even though I
picked the Thunder to win. And it's because you look
on paper and it's like, man, all these dudes can
(17:08):
guard and all these dudes can shoot.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But the truth is, if like you really started to.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Talk about like high IQ basketball players, like really smart
basketball players that don't make poor decisions, that are always
in the right spot, that always seem to do the
right thing, it's Mike Conley, end of list. And So
with that being the case, especially with ant and his like,
if you're breaking down Ant's game right now, We're going
(17:36):
to talk more about Aunt in a minute. The reality
is is that ant and is not necessarily the most
high level processor that exists in the league. And I
would argue that he could learn the most in that
area and experience the most improvement in the coming years.
And so you know, a simple example like if CP
three is on the move away from San Antonio, I'd
(17:56):
be looking to bring in Chris Paul as a backup guard,
as a guy that can help ant literally just help
him understand more of the processing and game flow elements
of that. On ball roll, I would look too down
the line in terms of role players, connective playmakers, off
ball shooters, stuff like that. Look for higher IQ, smarter
players that will help him process some of these situations,
(18:18):
that know how to be in the right spots, that
won't make mistakes. I think that would be a direction
that I would look to go if I was this offseason.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Now. I saw a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Of talk on Twitter, YouTube comments, all this kind of
stuff over the last couple of days burying Anthony Edwards,
And I know what this comes from. It comes from
the fact that ant is more popular than Shay and
then Jason Tatum, And even though Tatum and Shae are
better basketball players than ant An, it's more popular. And
(18:47):
that just eats at people and it makes them super
irrational and upset, and then they take it out on
Ant when the reality is is Ant's not doing anything
but be an Ant, and he just happens to resonate
with people in a certain way, which we're going to
talk about that in a bigger picture context here when
we talk about the face of the league. But for
some reason, that just builds all this negativity towards Ant.
Here's the thing, back to back Western Conference Finals where
(19:09):
Anthony Edwards got pretty badly outplayed by his counterpart on
the other side, Luka Dancis last year, Shake gills Is
Alexander this year.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
There's no way around it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I thought that Ant faced an extremely difficult game plan
from a very very very good defense that did damage
to every single star that they ran into in this postseason.
But even within that context, he didn't do very well.
He didn't do as well as he needed to do.
There was a gap in his performance relative to what
Shae gals As Alexander did for the Thunder. So yeah,
(19:38):
I'm not about to rank Ant over Gildas Alexander or
anything like that. I think he's somewhere around the fifth
to seventh best player in the NBA kind of just
off of that kind of like reliable top tier superstar tier,
and you know, depending on the matchup, when the matchup
is right, he can kind of reach that level, but
it's clear when he reaches tougher matchups he kind of
(19:59):
feels more like a second tier star at this point.
Here's the thing. He's twenty three years old and he
just went to back to back conference finals. And yes,
he got out played by Shay and he got out
played by Luca last year. But he went to Totoe
with Nikola Jokich in a series where he beat him.
He went to Totoe with Lebron James and Luka Doncic
(20:20):
in a series where he beat them, and in that series,
repeatedly down the stretch looked like the better player as he.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Won the game.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's been uneven, it's been inconsistent, but there is literally
if we could remove the irrational emotion that Shae fans
and Tatum fans and all these people feel about Anthony
Edwards just out of jealousy for the amount of attention
that he gets, we could just take that and remove
it out of the equation and set it on the side.
And we all looked at Ant's career just with like
(20:46):
clear eyes and just a basic evaluation. We'd all say
the same thing, like flawed player, crazy upside, all sorts
of room to improve. There's no way to describe his
career up to age twenty three other than a resounding success.
There's literally no way to describe. There's all of the
other greats that went on to win titles, did it
when they were twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight years old.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Nobody does it.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Nobody conquers the demons and wins the title at age
twenty three, unless they're on a supremely talented roster like
Kobe was in two thousand or Dwayne Wade was on
the Miami Heat in two thousand and six. There are
rare examples of dudes who have success at the championship
level in kind of a supporting type of role, but.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Very rarely do you see, very rarely.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
In NBA history do you see a player actually achieve
like I'm the best player in the world status at
twenty three years old. He didn't do enough this series,
he got out played. He's doing just fine. He's doing
just fine. He made Let's just put it this way, guys,
do you think Aunt got substantially better from last year
to this year. Yes, absolutely, twenty two year old Aunt
(21:56):
failed got in the gym, became one of the best time,
the best tie volume three point shooter in the league.
Showed a lot of higher level processing in this postseason run.
Not enough, but showed a lot of higher level processing
and took a leap. He's one step closer to his
ultimate goals. He's not there yet, give him time. He's
twenty three years old. Ant's development will be the key
(22:17):
though for this team going over the top. There are
some realities to being in a roster this build with
some of these older veteran guys that make a lot
of money. There's not a lot of like, let's go
bring in more talent type of situation going on here
with Minnesota. Now, they can find better types of talent.
They can find talent that is better fitting. We talked
earlier about basketball IQ. But ultimately it will be Ant's
(22:39):
individual improvement that will get him to where he needs
to go. Shake Yodess Alexander to me, I think has
in this playoff run very clearly snatched the title of
being the second best player in the world behind Nikole Jokich.
I think he's got a better case than Yannis. I
think he's got a better case than Luca. At this point.
He is clearly to me in that second spot. The
reason why he has that spot is he has flashed
(23:01):
in this postseason run defense that is above average, the
ability to score regardless of circumstance. Like Minnesota switched up
their game plan, packed the paint and put him through
a lot of the same stuff that Ant has saw
in this series. And in the pivotal game he hung
forty points in ten assist, the incredible dribble penetration, the processing,
the playmaking has gone up a massive level for him
(23:23):
compared to last year. And like there was a it's
very similar to Ant in the sense that Sga kind
of had a little bit of a rough playmaking series
last year in the postseason. It has been a thing
that he has substantially improved upon in this postseason. Because again,
failure is what breeds the motivation that gets these guys
to figure things out and take that next step. That's
(23:45):
where Shay's at. Shay is what three years ahead of
schedule on Shay. On Ant, he's three years older than him.
He is currently, in my opinion, firmly holding onto that
number two.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Spot.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I think he's anchored himself there. I think he's got
a very very very very good chance to win a
time title this year and put that first feather in
his cap. But the processing that Shay has gone through
in the last few years, if you look at the
player Shay was in twenty twenty three and you look
at the player that he is now, there has been
these improvements that have taken place as an over the
top shot maker, as a half court processor, as a
(24:17):
defensive player that have vaulted him into a situation where
he is the second best player in the NBA. That
is the track that Ant has to follow. Minuscule improvements
year over year in key areas understanding the game and processing,
handling the ball against ball pressure and making those kickout
raads in traffic, building out a back to back to
the basket game, the ability to score over both shoulders
(24:38):
at the high posts and in the mid post and
on the low post. All of those different things are
things that He's going to have to build out in
order to reach the level that Shay is at right now.
But again, as I said, Shay's been doing this three
years longer. Shay is at the age when typically the
all time great players in our league start to figure
(25:00):
it out and take their stake their claim at the
top of the league. Ant is a head of schedule, guys.
He's ahead of schedule, and like the burying of him
that I've seen over the course of the last couple
of days just reeks of insecurity, and honestly, it's it's
reprehensible to me, but it is what it is. He's
doing just fine at twenty three years old. Back to
(25:23):
back Western Conference Finals appearances, and literally the sky is
the limit for what he can accomplish in the future.
And honestly, as a basketball fan, I'm super fun or
super pumped because I think the Shay versus Ant kind
of rivalry could end up being a very very interesting
rivalry in this coming era. It kind of reminds me
of the Lebron's deph rivalry in the sense that, like,
(25:45):
Lebron is three years older and was obviously further along
in the deal, but the two of them just kind
of like seem to have this rivalry that existed over
the course of their careers. I would love to see
Ant and Shae face off in the postseason five more
times over the course of the next ten years, and
hopefully that ends up being something that we get to see.
It's a very fun rivalry. All right, Welcome to course correction,
(26:05):
brought to you by Microsoft. Just like star players and
teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under
immense pressure to get things right. They must rise to
the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries
with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management and trustworthy,
responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA, you have
your own hurdles to face. In this segment, we will
(26:27):
highlight the player every week that has risen to the
occasion when his team needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing,
Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on.
The player we're highlighting this week is Alex Caruso of
the Oklahoma City Thunder. Looking back at last year's potseason
run for Oklahoma City, if you guys remember they had.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
A fifth starter problem.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Team started putting their center on Josh Giddey and sagging
into the paint and things just really bogged down for
them offensively. It was one of the few weak points
that that team was dealing with They tried a bunch
of different guys in his spot, a rookie version of
Cason Wallace, Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe, but none of them
were able to bring the combination of size and versatile
defense and offensive utility that Alex Crusoe has brought to
(27:09):
this team. So Sam Pressy, Sam Presty, excuse me, pulls
off two very savvy moves this summer, one signing Isaiah
Hartenstein away from the New York Knicks. Obviously, Isaiah was
hividly important during the second round win versus the Denver Nuggets,
a little less so in this series, but he still
had his moments. And then trading Josh Giddy straight up
with no draft compensation for Alex Crusoe. A player that
(27:33):
is universally recognized as one of the best role player
wings in the NBA. A player that started an NBA
Finals game for the twenty twenty Lakers. A player who
has since then turned him turned himself into a much
more reliable offensive player than he used to be. He
was always a gifted cutter with the Lakers, but he's
become a very good connective playmaker. He's become very good
(27:55):
as a catch and shoot three point shooter. He hit
forty four percent of his threes coming into in this
postseason run. But I want to focus on his defense
for a minute, because he's putting together one of the
best defensive playoff runs.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
You'll see.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He's averaging four stocks per thirty six minutes in his
playoff run that steals plus blocks and this is a
consistent thing. By the way, he averaged the same amount
in the regular season. Basically, the only guy this year
to exceed that output with at least forty six games
played was Victor Wemenyama, and I chose forty six games
played because that's how many games Victor women Yama played,
(28:29):
But he was the only guy that averaged more stocks
per thirty six minutes at that minimum number of games played.
This year's Victor Wenmnyama Dyson Daniels matched Alex Crusoe's performance,
but Victor was the only one who exceeded it. He
was that level of disruptive, defensive wrecking ball in this postseason.
There have been some high profile assignments, like he did
(28:51):
a lot of quality work.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
On Ant in this series.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He did an amazing job on Nikola Jokic in Game seven,
in that second round series that arguably saved Oklahoma City
from disaster, fronting the post and single handedly decomposing that
Nuggets offense. But in the big picture, the funnest thing
for me to watch as a fan has just been
his defensive game playmaking literally anytime he sees someone try
(29:13):
to dribble against him that has a questionable handle, like
usually if it's a guy who's in rotation attacking a
closeout or a guy in t Like there have been
a half dozen plays in this postseason where some guy
had like a one on one against Alex Crusoe in
transition and was like, I'm going to try to score
on it, and it's like his eyes just light up
(29:34):
and he.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Just sees a turnover.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
He just attacks the basketball with physicality, and whoever it
is that's trying to dribble just immediately soils themselves and
flubs the ball away. He's the type of defensive player
that you basically have no choice but to run your
action on the other side of the floor whenever you can.
You want to keep him out of the play if
at all possible. I truly believe that the Thunder lose
in Round two this year if not for the work
(29:57):
that Alex Crusoe did in that series, the workie he
did on Nicole Jokicchen Game seven, but also the on
ball defensive work throughout the series. He also hit fifteen
threes in that series. He had nineteen assists with just
six turnovers in that series. As I said on the
show Monday night, and as I said earlier tonight, I
think it's a near certainty that the Thunder win the
(30:18):
title at this point, and so you got an immediate
championship level return for the Thunder given by Alex Caruso.
That's it for this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI
solutions power empower you to take bold steps and make
informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward.
If Microsoft is your trusted partner, you can navigate your
(30:40):
journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities.
Visit Microsoft dot com slash challengers to learn more. All right,
our last segment before we get into our mailbag, the
face of the League talk. There's been a lot of
talk about the current.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
State of the NBA.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Who's going to be the face of the league now
that Lebron and Steph are gone, are going out aging
out in the process. At least is the NBA screwed
because two small markets are facing off in the NBA Finals?
Does the league need to do a better job of
marketing its young stars? The main thing I want to
focus on tonight is that last question, because I think
(31:17):
the answer is relevant for all of those questions, and
I think the perfect way to frame this conversation is
to look at our two previous faces of the league,
Lebron and Steph, which, by the way, this isn't a
real thing. There's not an assignment for face of the league.
It's just Lebron and Steph are far and away the
most famous players of their generation.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
They just are.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's them two and then a giant gap before you
get to Kevin Durant, James Harden the other guys in
those tiers. Like, even as famous as those guys are,
Lebron and Steph are just on another level. Did the
league make Lebron and Steph into stars? Did they run
sophisticated marketing campaigns? Did they make them get drafted by
(32:01):
big market teams like the Knicks or the Lakers. No,
we think of the Warriors now as one of the
big markets in the league, as one of the most
valuable franchises in the NBA. But they just sold in
twenty ten for like what the four hundred and fifty million.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Like they are.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think it was a little bit less than that,
but they just sold for a little over four hundred million.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Nobody thought of the Warriors as a big market juggernaut
before Steph made them into that. The Cleveland Cavaliers are
now a four billion dollar franchise and they have a
viable fan base that is ravenous. For this new Cleveland
Cavaliers iteration, Lebron made them into that that it doesn't
(32:53):
matter if it's the Pacers in Indiana or it's the
Thunder in Oklahoma City. It doesn't matter where a guy
gets drafted. Lebron and Steph have proved that you can
supersede that and create legendary status for a smaller market
for a player regardless of what the league does. Lebron
and Steph made themselves in two faces of the league.
(33:16):
How two ways. One they were must see television. Lebron
James in his prime was arguably the best combination of
size and athleticism ever to play sports. You couldn't watch
a game in his prime without seeing a half dozen
absurd highlights. Crazy dunks, crazy layups, crazy chase down blocks,
(33:37):
absurd you know, jump passes that nobody other player in
the league could make jumping a passing lane. We think
of him as like a savvy, old veteran player now,
but back in the day, he was a nuclear athlete.
Every once in a while, some Lebron fan page on
Twitter will tweet some video highlight of Lebron in like
(33:57):
two thousand and nine or something, and it'll come across
my feet and I'm always like, oh my god, I
forgot this dude moved just different than anyone else in
the league. And Steph Curry's far and away the greatest
shot maker in the history of the NBA. His hot
streaks were unlike anything we had ever seen before. I
remember in twenty twenty one when he was routinely going
(34:19):
off after the All Star break, it was like, whatever
you were doing, you had to stop when Steph was
on a hot streak and just get to a television
because it was musty TV, even for non you know,
like guys that aren't necessarily super successful in the championship stage,
like Kyrie only has one championship, but he is a
profoundly entertaining player with a huge fan base. Why because
(34:43):
he's must see television. When you're watching Kyrie irving, chain together,
dribble combinations and doing the things he does on the court,
it resonates with people. It just does Anthony Edwards. Anthony
Edwards is not as good at basketball as Shay, but
he is absolutely more aesthetically appealing and that is why
he he has such a huge, ravenous fan base behind him.
(35:03):
The second part of it is the success from twenty
twelve to twenty twenty two. Lebron and Steph literally won
eight championships in eleven years, and the three years they
didn't win the championship, they were in the finals two
of them. One of them was in the finals Lebron
in twenty fourteen, Steph in twenty nineteen. You could not
(35:25):
turn on your TV in June without seeing Lebron or
Steph on the television. That's how they became legends. It's both,
you gotta have both. We've seen players like Tim Duncan
that won a lot, but that didn't resonate with people
because there wasn't an esthetically appealing element to his game.
I still feel like there's a huge chunk of casual
(35:46):
fans that don't really get the Jokic thing because there's
not a huge aesthetically appealing part of his game. But
if you can do both, if you can be must
see television and you can consistently play in June and
succeed in June, that is the kind of thing that
can influence the public. There is no marketing campaign that
(36:09):
can influence the public like that. Every media entity covering
the NBA, from myself to the people on ESPN or
whoever it is, we could talk about Shay and Tyrese
Halliburton every day for the next year and it would
not influence the public the way that they could on
ABC in June. That is where they win over the
hearts and minds of the people. Anyone can become a legend.
(36:33):
It doesn't matter if you're in Oklahoma City or New
York City. People don't even watch the same media anymore.
All of us consume NBA content from one hundred different
sources that perfectly fit what we like to hear. Some
people want superficial stuff, some people want way in the weeds.
Some people want team specific stuff. Some people want national media,
some people want television. Some people want more of the
(36:55):
podcast type of format. Some of you guys are big
YouTube people. A lot of people do streaming services like
playback where they can be more interactive. Like, there's a
million ways to consume NBA media. There isn't even a
way in which the NBA could like force a star
on us. The Internet is a tool that makes the
quality of your work matter. The algorithm it's about for
(37:17):
all of us content creators, it's about maintaining eyeballs. That's
literally all that matters when it comes to the Internet.
You have to bring the aura and the success that
captures the attention of the people. Lebron and Steph it
doesn't matter where they've played in their careers. They have
global fan bases. But it cannot be given to you
(37:39):
or forced on you. It has to be earned. So
here's the thing. This year's NBA Finals won't get good
TV ratings, and that's fine. It's kind of inevitable under
the circumstances. There's kind of a natural gap that exists
between the eras that we're in right now, So it
doesn't really matter what Shape and Tyree have done there
(38:01):
in their mid twenties, they haven't been around long enough
to influence people the way they need to. This is
this was inevitable. But the question is hand players like SGA,
like Tyrese Halliburn, or teams like the Thunder or the Pacers,
can they become faces of the NBA? Can they become
the kinds of cultural forces that those old Warriors teams were,
(38:23):
Cavs teams were that Lebron and Steph were. They certainly can.
Like with SGA, you need both, right, You need success
and you need to be musty television. So continually making
it to this point, continually winning games, that'll go a
long way for SGA. But there is a reality to
(38:43):
the fact. And again I know Thunder fans are super
sensitive about this and they always have a conniption fit
every time it gets brought up. But there is a
reality to the fact that Shay sometimes has a hard
time resonating with casual fans because of some of the weird,
non basketball, foul grifty stuff he does. He will become
a legend and an icon by hitting contested mid range
(39:05):
jump shots in the finals, not by lurching into defenders'
bodies and grabbing their arms and throwing up fake shots
like we can talk all we want about how the
rule book is the rule book and you've got to
find a way not to foul. And yess, he's a
competitor that's just finding every advantage. Oh, that's true. The
casual fan does not care. You guys that are watching me.
(39:26):
You don't watch this show because you're casual fans. You
watch the show because you love basketball. We are the
nut jobs. We're not the people that Shay has to
win over. Shay has to win over the general public,
and he's not going to win over the general public
doing all that foul grifty shit. He absolutely has that potential, though,
because he is legitimately a top tier shot maker. Coming
(39:50):
into tonight, he was shooting fifty four percent on jump
shots inside of seventeen feet. He won a pivotal playoff
game with it in the second half of Game FI.
If he has more moments like that, in fewer moments
like Game two where he puts up a monster stat
line but takes like seven or eight of the most
ridiculous fake shot attempts I've ever seen, If he has
(40:11):
more moments like that second half in Game four, he
will become a legend. I absolutely think he could become
a fan favorite. As for Halliburton, I think his pathway
is shooting. As we've seen with Steph, that can be
a musty television type of show. His shooting run in
Game four was musky television. If he can improve as
(40:32):
a three point shooter to the type of dynamic guy
that can get super super hot and regularly hit five
seven threes a game, I think he could resonate with fans.
Combine that with the same success in June, he could
become a legend. The point is the point I'm trying
to make the younger generation guys like Halliburton, SGA, even
(40:52):
Anthony Edwards, they absolutely can become the faces of the NBA,
victor Women, Yama, Cooper, Flagg, whoever it ends up being.
But nobody is gonna give it to them. The NBA
can't do.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It for them.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
They have to take it, and they have to take
it by becoming what Lebron and Steph were, by becoming legends,
by being musty television, by winning basketball games on ABC
and June. All right, I'm off my soapbox.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
All right, Jackson.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Let's take a five ten minutes of questions and then
we'll head over to playback.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
We got a couple of super Chat questions to start with.
One from Dave.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
He said, thunderfan here, love your content. In what aspect
do you think the thunder have grown most from last
season that has resulted in them sort of getting over
the at least this step of the hump.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think there's two obvious pieces, because like there's there's
you know, the talent increase that inherently comes from young
guys aging and uh bringing in key role players like
Crusoe and Hartenstein. But overall, I thought they're playmaking in
the middle of the floor, just the decisions they made
in the middle of the floor in traffic in the series,
and then the confidence with which they stepped into three
point shots like they legitimately time time and time again
(42:01):
in this postseason when we have seen them in this
regular season, even in this postseason early in the Denver series,
like we've seen them kind of lose their confidence in
catch and shoot situations. They've just been a very dependable
catch and shoot three point shooting team in this postseason run,
and I think it's been. I think it's been especially
in big spots when they've needed to be And so
(42:22):
I think I think that like connective playmaking piece, the
not forcing shit at the rim, making those kickout passes
and guys stepping into threes has been their biggest area
of growth.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Another super Track question, this one from JM. He says
SGA is a combination of the three greatest shooting guards
of the early two thousands, Kobe's size and footwork, d
Wade's sort of consistency and ability to drive to the
room and finish, and Manud's craftiness.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Thoughts the Kobe and Manu stuff I agree with. I
don't really see Dean Dwayne Wade in in Uh Shay
that much, just because Shaye is kind of more of
like a spindly, wiry, kind of like funky moving athlete
he is.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
I think Shay's first step is underrated.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I think he's incredibly quick off the bounce, but I
don't think it looks anything like with Dwayne Wade was
like quite literally nuclear downhill athleticism with the ability to
the thing that Wade could do that was crazy was
he could change direction at full speed, So like if
you watched if you watched Wade, he would like come
at this angle at full speed and then split the
pick and roll back at this angle, and it would
(43:25):
literally look like he didn't even stop. He would just
like knife through the lane. I don't think he quite
has that athletic impact that Dwayne Wade had, but I
think the man who Genobili and Kobe comparisons make a
lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
It's like, when was the last time you shot you
saw Shade dunk over someone in traffic? It hasn't happened,
but that first step and the other aspects I like
those comparisons.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Actually one more super tech question.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Then we got a couple others supertech question from Michael
He said fan from Puerto Rico. After two Western Conference
finals back to back, is it's still fair to use
the he's just twenty.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Three years old? With Anthony Edwards, I feel like you
answered earlier, but.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
It guys, who's the example. Who's the example of a guy?
Like if you have a counter example, if there are
like five six other dudes who like clearly looked better
than Ant at twenty three, then sure let's have that conversation.
I just don't like this is this is literally like
the the fact that ant is having this success so
early in his career is causing everybody to lose their minds.
(44:23):
It doesn't usually look like this, Like most of these
dudes are not even getting close to this level by
this point. Like how many players by the age of
twenty three eliminated the best player in the world in
a playoff series, eliminated a team that Luka Doncic, John
Lebron James on it, Like how many teams have been
able to do that? Like he swept Kevin Durant and
(44:44):
Devin Booker and the Suns and was like it was
like clowning on them that entire series. Like I think,
I think there are some realities to the fact that
he's shown some vulnerability to certain types of matchups, but
I think overall, he's clearly improving year over year like that.
That's the second piece I would say, is like I
would be so much more in line with this, Like
can we keep saying he's twenty three when this is
(45:05):
his second Western Conference Finals if he didn't look obviously
better than he did last year, So let me actually
pitch that back to you, Jackson, Am I out of
am I out of my mind for thinking it is
clearly better this year than he was last year.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
No, no, no, no, I don't think so. I mean, I
think the development and from him as a shooter is
really remarkable. He was a fine, okay shooter coming in
for the first couple of seasons, and he was like
a good shooter last year. But he is a great
shooter this year.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Great.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
He led the league in or was it de leete
the league or he won short of Leage Beasley? I
forget in three point makes.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
But he led the league I think, and that is like,
you're not doing that unless you are really putting in
all of that work.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
So no, I don't. I don't think it's out of
bounds at all.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
He was number one by one over Maleague Beasley at
three nineteen right.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Right exactly, and a lot of people in the chat
and sort of, you know, as people would compare the
two are talking about dwayn Wade and how he won
the finals at twenty four years old or however he was,
and it's like he won the finals of twenty four
and no one else has really done that, and he
did it one time, he didn't make it to the
finals again.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
He made it to the final.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
He only made it to the finals the one time
before he got Lebron James as his team, which is
not a shot at Dayne Wade.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Is just to say that it's very very rare.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
And you're like, well, he's not Dwayne Wade, then okay,
he's not the fourth greatest shooting guard of all time
or whatever, right, Like he's not in the you know,
he's not in the.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Pantheon yet, and I don't think anyone like that's fine.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
He can be amazing and not be Dwayne Wade.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
And also, like to your point, like Wade legitimately lost
some of the talent after that year, and then he
could not bring his teams to any sort of legitimate
playoff success after that point until Lebron James came around,
Like I to me, to me, the the Dwayne Wade
performance in two thousand and six is very much like
a flash in the play flash in the pain kind
(46:50):
of like playoff performance that was like a kind of
unique compared to anything else in NBA history. There's like
it like doesn't really there's really nothing you can compare
it too, right.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
And someone in the chat just said, people who are
better at age twenty three Luca d Wave, Lebron Magic,
MJ Bird, Will duncan check. Cool, pretty great, pretty shortly, amazing,
amazing group for Anthony Edwards to be a part of. Right,
I wouldn't argue with any of those names, and I
don't think and that's fine. If Anthony Edwards is the
tenth best twenty three year old ever, like he's on
a pretty good trajectory.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Well, and let me let me take this one step further,
because let's let's let's follow this thought process through to fruition.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
So, okay, Lebron James is, in my opinion, the best
best basketball player ever, in most people's opinion, the second
best basketball player ever, one of the top two. Like
that's like he's unassailable in terms of career trajectory. What
if we were all on Twitter back in two thousand
and five, two thousand and six, two thousand and seven,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, and it
was like, oh, he makes it to the finals and
(47:49):
plays bad against the Spurs and gets eliminated. Then he
has a big statistical performing series against Boston in two
thousand and seven, but gets but loses and gets outplayed
by Paul Pierce in Game seven. In two thousand and
eight was the uh Two thousand and seven was the
Finals run. Two thousand and eight was the one year
that they lost to the Celtics. Two thousand and nine
(48:11):
puts up massive numbers but loses to an Orlando Magic
team in six games. Twenty ten like legitimately doesn't play
well down the stretch of a series against Boston and loses,
Like at that point he was already twenty six. Like
guys like this could have been, Like this is the
phase of careers where every star in NBA history has
inconsistent and flawed results.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's do one more question, then
we'll go over to playback.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
Okay, this is an interesting one as we're talking about
summer plans for the Minnesota Timberwolves as a franchise.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Does Kevin Durant make sense for Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I think it makes a ton of sense for Minnesota.
Oh my god, this is gonna get me thinking.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I think he's a high IQ player.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I think he's a incredible shooter and a very useful
defensive player. I love the idea of surrounding Kevin Durant
with tons of physicality, which has been the exact opposite
of what's what he's been around since he left Golden State. Uh,
oh my god, this is we need to take this
concept over to playback and think a little bit more
(49:19):
about it, because that's something I need to think about.
But yeah, like I think, I think, shit, man, I
almost like that better than any other option that I've
seen thrown around. I don't know how they would be
able to make it work because I think Julius's salary
would be tough to match with Kd's, and then I
think they're second apron, so they'd have a hard time
aggregating salaries. They'd have to shed salary this summer somehow.
(49:41):
Let me rephrase it like this, like, and we can
talk about this on playback, but like, would you waive
the rights to nas reed so that you can get
Kevin Durant like that?
Speaker 3 (49:52):
That's that's where it gets kind of tricky.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
But because they might have to do something like that
or offload a bunch of salary in order to make
it work. But man, like, just thinking purely about the
basketball and Kevin Durant being in the Julius Randall spot
I think that all of a sudden becomes a much
more interesting basketball team. All right, guys, it's all we
have for tonight on YouTube. We're heading over to play
back again. That's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Come over there.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
If you're angry at me about my rants, bring your
energy over there. Let's let's debate, let's have some fun.
We're just gonna talk some hoops, watch some film, hang
out for a little bit. I'll see you guys over
there just in just a few minutes. But for our
YouTube crowd things. As always, for the support, We'll be
back tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Eastern Conference
Finals Game five.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
The volume
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