Jason reacts live with Colin Cowherd after the Oklahoma City Thunder win a hard fought Game 5 of the NBA Finals vs. the Indiana Pacers to take a 3-2 lead. He discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s great performance plus Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren leading the way vs. Tyrese Haliburton, TJ McConnell, and Pascal Siakam. Then they discuss Desmond Bane being traded from the Memphis Grizzlies to Orlando Magic as well as the latest on Kevin Durant.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Slash audio A wellcome to tonight, you're at the volume?
(02:01):
Have you Monday? Everybody? Hope? All of you guys having
a great start to your week. Well. The pinnacle game
of the NBA Finals Tonight Gate Series tied at two
back in Oklahoma City and the thunder behind seventy one
combined points from Shake Gilgess Alexander and Jalen Williams take
a three to two lead in the series. Colin Coward
is joining us again. Colin, you and I talked last
(02:22):
after Game three. I believe about the rosters, and we
talked about how down the roster Indiana's pretty close in
terms of depth of talent, but at the top end
on Oklahoma City can be tough to contend with. And
I thought both JDub and Shay were brilliant tonight. What
were your thoughts on game five?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh, Jalen Williams is such an interesting player. So he
goes to a small college, Santa Clara, and you know
is a slow developing player. And the last part of
his game to mature was scoring. You know, he was long,
He worked really hard. I think both of his parents
were in the military, you know, class like hard working
(03:02):
no bs.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You know, you can see his game, you can see
the work.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
He's put into it. Whenever you see a guy with
great touch around the rim. A lot of guys can
hit jumpers. Everybody had, you know, everybody sits in huge
jumpers all day at practice. But when I see a
guy that's elegant and soft around the rim, like that's work.
That is years of working in the gym, often by yourself,
(03:26):
and you know, so here's the guy small college developed
slowly comes into the NBA, and you and I have.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Talked about this.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I always thought, because Chuck Holmgrim was he's a really
good defender. First half the night he was incredible. And
I always thought, because his body type is so unique,
can you pay home gren sj and Jalen Williams And
I always thought they just keep homegrin. But his offense
is so all over the map, and Jalen Williams is
(03:55):
just such a natural easy score that you I just
feel like if I said for the rest of his career,
he averaged twenty seven and like, not all of them
are memorable. It's just he just fills the box, like
gets jumpers.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It's touch. It's just he's just such a natural easy score.
I don't even know if he has a go to move.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Almost every guy, Like if guys said, close your eyes
Jason twenty seven points a game. If I said Durant
or staff and I give you players, you can kind
of see the archetype of their offense, Like you can say, okay,
that's his move. That Halliburton's three with Jalen Williams. It's
just all over the place, threes, driving transition. I just
(04:44):
there's not a lot of guys in the league like him.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, his power, I think is his signature. And I've
actually found this really fascinating because if you dig back
through NBA history recently, we're on like a decade plus
nowhere where power dominates in the NBA finals unless your
name is Steph Curry. Like, you go back and it's like,
in twenty twenty four, you know, Luca, Luca is the
best player in the playoffs. He brings a ton of
(05:09):
power to the position. Twenty twenty three, it's Jokic obviously,
Stephan twenty twenty two, but in twenty one it's Yannis power.
Twenty twenty it's Lebron power. Twenty nineteen it's Kawhi power.
You go back again, more Steph Curry, but then it's Lebron,
it's dunkin in Kawhi. There's a reason why power thrives
in this setting, and it's because it gets super physical.
I mean, it's you know, it's really fascinating to me.
(05:31):
I've talked about this concept with you before, but to me,
ball pressure in physicality on the perimeter in the NBA
is similar to me like a pass rush in the NFL.
And we see this so often in the NFL playoffs
where a pass rush gets hot and nobody can protect
quarterback and plays all breakdown within the first second and
a half after the snap, and it changes the entire
dynamic of a game. And that's the test you have
(05:52):
to pass with this Oklahoma City Thunder team, with this
Indiana Pacers team, with their ball pressure. These two teams
they pick you up full court. They're super physical, and
it's the powerful guys that thrive. I mean, you don't
think it's a coincidence that TJ McConnell was awesome again
tonight because he brings power to the guard position. And
what Jdubb is is he is a big, strong wing
(06:13):
that brings downhill power. And you're right, like I would argue,
J Dubb's you know, skill, talent, imposition on the game
is his versatility. He's just really good at everything. You
look at other power players from the wing, like look
at Jaylen Brown from the Celtics, nowhere near the passer
that Jadub is and the processor that Jadub is. JDub
(06:37):
brings this mix of downhill power with shot making from
all three levels, the soft touch around the basket, the
mid range pull ups, the three point shooting, but also
the playmaking to boot. And then he's also been a
guy that's been one of the most important defensive players
for the Thunder all season. He is, to me, the
definition of the type of player that's going to thrive
(06:58):
in the playoffs for a long time. A strong forward
that can do everything. He is the Jimmy Butler of
this era.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, and he's one of those guy. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I was thinking about his comp tonight, and he's got
Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
He feels, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
He he's only about six five and a half, like
he plays bigger than his size, and I think that's
his length and his touch. But I really thought the
story of the game wasn't SGA. I thought the story
of the game was Holmgren's defense. First half around the rim,
I mean, the Pacers probably missed eight chippies. And then
I thought in the second half, every time they got close,
(07:35):
it was really j Dubb that hit a shot, and
I mean, so did SGA. But I was like encouraged.
I thought the fact that Indiana got it down to
two or three. I was like, this is impossible. This
is not winning this game, you know, without Halliburton to
be pretty competitive in the second half, I think speaks
(07:57):
well to Indiana. I think they'll play willy competitive basketball
in Game six. You know, I think we've kind of
established defense wins championships. And I thought the last three
minutes of the last game and tonight, early and late,
it's just we're seeing this defense. Like you say, they
(08:18):
clog you up and suffocate you on the perimeter. You
drive sort of sometimes out of control because you're just
they got a body on you, and then you throw
up kind of a wild shot, and it's often met
with resistance at the rim. Even the follow ups to
your misses, even the follow ups are contested. There's just
length and Hartenstein and home grin and bodies. So I
(08:41):
think we're seeing and I talked about this the other
day with JAMAC on the air. When we have historically
great defenses against great offenses, defense usually wins.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's just disruptive.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We've seen Patrick Mahomes blown out twice in his career,
both in Super Bowls when he couldn't be protected. I
feel like Indiana's just has just been disrupt and they
without Haliburton at full strength, they just don't have a flow.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
There's no flow to their offense.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, I thought Shaye was great again tonight. I thought,
you know, it's been interesting. He's had a couple of
higher scoring total games in this series. He had thirty
five in Game four. Didn't think he was particularly great
in that game, Dad, I think he had thirty four
in Game one. I didn't think he was particularly great
in that game. But in this game you could tell
right out the gates he was making that concerted effort
(09:26):
to keep his teammates involved. Colin, they only attempted sixteen
threes in Game four. They had seventeen three point attempts
just in the first half tonight because of the better
floor game that Shaye was playing, keeping everybody involved. But
every time I think about this Thunder team, it is
the defense that I'll remember, Like when people talk to
me about this Thunder team, I will remember them as
(09:47):
a defensive juggernaut, and like it's the two layer approach,
and you described it perfectly. It is the physical ball
pressure that causes you to rush and panic that is
then layered by the rim protection and it even extends
beyond shell or beyond shed, like she several times tonight
deflections around the basket because he's got super long arms
(10:08):
down there. You know, Chet to me is like kind
of the secret sauce of this defense though, because you
know Colin, we saw a great example in the Houston
of Golden State series in round one. You can have
really good perimeter defenders, but every team needs to have
big guys on the floor because big guys are a
part of basketball, right, Like he can't just go out
there and play five guards. You'll have all sorts of issues.
And big guys are targets. They are the point at
(10:31):
which every offense tries to get into your defense by
attacking your big guy in pick and roll. And Chet
is just this freakish weapon because he can do all
the big guy stuff in terms of length around the rim,
but he can also switch out onto the perimeter and
guard these guards, and so it's like the it's like
the ace in the hole for this thunder defense is
(10:51):
like a lot of times you'll fail the first test,
like when Pascal hit that three to make it ninety
five ninety three. From that point forward, Indy could barely
get the ball across half court without turning the ball over,
so like their guards can do an insane amount of damage.
But it's like, even if you pass that test and
you get through the ball pressure and you move the
ball through their defense and you get something around the rim,
(11:14):
it's just arms everywhere that you're dealing with at the
rim and all of those misses, all of those contested
rebounds that they came down with. Oklahoma City's defense is layered.
It's frightening. It wears you down. I mean like Indy
was right there and they let go of the rope
for like ninety seconds and they're down thirteen points. And
I'm with you, as we had the game six, I
(11:36):
think Indiana always is going to have a chance at
home with the energy Oklahoma City's young we have discussed
on this show. Oklahoma City on the road is not
the same team. But I thought Indiana's chance to win
this series was to win the home games because I
just think Oklahoma City can lay like leverage their athleticism
at home in a way that Indy just can't match.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, and again Halliburton's hurt. It's not the same team'd
be like taking you know to some degree SGA out.
So I thought Caruso again tonight, I mean they forced
twenty three turnovers the thunder did think about that. Indies
a team all year that didn't turn the ball over,
like Halliburton doesn't turn the ball over. So you take
Halliburton out a lot tonight and it looks really sloppy,
(12:20):
really fast. Again, They're They're just a special team, you know.
I think you know, Indiana is a surprise to be here.
And the West is much better than the East, and
so like in the football, the AFC is much better
than the NFC. So the AFC becomes much more predictable
(12:41):
because you have four or five elite teams Chiefs, Bills, Ravens,
and I think the West is more predictable because you
have like Oklahoma City has the leading scorer and the
best defense, and Denver has the best player in the world,
and the Warriors have the Steve Kerr and at Draymond
and Butler and Steph and you kind of know what
you're getting in the West, whereas in the East it's
like who's healthy and who's hot. So Indiana just flies through.
(13:05):
But I will say, is so I think the East
is wide open and I think Indiana's.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Pop or now.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
They were in the Eastern Conference finals last year, but
I mean they flew through Milwaukee, flew through Cleveland, controlled.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
New York, and we're two.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Two with this team. And I think some of the
trade that Memphis and Orlando made was Orlando going, Okay,
the Knicks don't have a coach, Tatum's hurt next year,
why can't we do in Indiana? We got sugs, we
got BN Caro, we got Wagner. Let's go get a
Western player whoeverage is nineteen, he may average twenty two
(13:48):
over here. And I think I think Orlando looked at
Indiana and thought, why not us. I mean, I mean,
they don't have a guy that scores over twenty. BN
Caro could be first team All NBA next year. So
I think when I watch Indiana, I think they're they're
they're encouraging. They've got young, astnding players, they've kind of
(14:09):
meshed together in the East, and you're like, Okay, it
was one thing when Boston was.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Winning with a stacked roster.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Indiana, I can't in I think I said it during
the Boston Orlando series. I'm like, man, they're about a
year away from being really really good. So I think
Indiana is one of those teams that may not make
it back and it may just be lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I really like them a lot, but I.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Think okay See is historically special defensively and we're seeing it.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, the the East to me feels wide open in
a different way where I agree with you. Like the
Boston was like this clear number one out east, but
then you had this like group of three four teams
that you knew were going to be in the mix,
you know, Milwaukee, New York. That was the mix that
we knew was going to be at the top. But
now with Boston kind of dropping out of that group,
it does feel wide open. Like Eveland is very good,
(15:00):
but everyone knows they're beatable, Like the Bucks will be
there if Giannis is still there, but like we know
that they're beatable. The Knicks, we know that they have
their flaws and their issues. They have a front court
that you can attack defensively, and I think what the
Pacers have demonstrated in a lot of ways is that
you can, you know, OutKick your coverage, so to speak,
in terms of the talent on your roster when there
(15:21):
is a great deal of one that the coaching that
maximizes the talent. But the second piece is from a
general management perspective, like actual complimentary pieces that fit and
accentuate each other. And that, to me is what I
look at with the Desmond Bain trade, because like, your
initial reaction when you see that sort of thing is
to go four first round picks unprotected, Like, my goodness,
(15:41):
that's a steep paycheck, and like I get that on
the surface, and ultimately whether or not that ends up
being worthwhile will be whether or not this team has success,
and if they have success, they make the finals. No
one's going to care about those four first round picks.
It's about whether or not this pays off. And Desmond
Baine is a perfectly complimentary player to what those two
(16:03):
guys do. Is he is one of the best jump
shooters in the NBA. Among fifty eight players this year
to attempt at least five hundred jumpers, he ranked twelve
in efficiency.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
By the way, Colin and the Magic couldn't shoot last year.
That's what they couldn't do.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
They couldn't shoot. By the way, you want to know
his number one on that list, Kevin Durant Kevin Durant
is still the best jump shooter in the NBA. I
thought that was interesting when I was digging into the data.
But he specifically shot sixty percent from the field on
shot attempts coming off of off ball screens. So when
he comes running off of action off the ball, he
(16:37):
knocks it down at an extremely high rate. He shot
fifty two percent on threes specifically coming off of off
ball screens. The magic could not create space for Palo
in Franz. That was the problem the Desmond Bane in Memphis,
they so desperately needed him to hit shots because he
was their secondary shot creator. It was a little bit
too much for him. But in this setting next to Franz,
(16:59):
next to it's more important for him to be able
to create openings for them. His ability to shoot on
the move, shoot it out of screens, shoot off the dribble. Specifically,
in the context of Franz and Paolo, you're going to
get as a force multiplier rather than a diminishing return.
And that really is the key. Like when I'm looking
at talent, it's like they could have gone and got
(17:21):
Bradley Beal and maybe that's a player that you think
is maybe a higher regarded player in the league or
something like that. Desmond Bane's talent fits perfectly with those
guys in a wide open conference, and that's a huge, big,
strong team that should be able to cause a lot
of damage with their physicality. And the last thing I'll
say about it, Colin, Desmond's not the best defender in
(17:44):
the world, but he's pretty solid. Jalen Suggs is the
best guard defender in the world, and so he will
never have to guard the best guard on the other team.
He's gonna be in favorable matchups, He's going to be
surrounded by physicality. His skill set perfectly matches what Franz
and Paolo do. I think it was a type of
swing that could legitimately put them in the finals. And Colin,
(18:06):
you're the one who's always preaching this on your show. Yes,
it was expensive, so was Kawhi for the Raptors in
twenty nineteen. At a certain point, you got to push
your chips in the middle if you want to try
to win well.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And I again, I think Orlando looks at it and thinks, Listen,
Baine's like twenty five or twenty six years old.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's like Oklahoma City.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You don't have this aged star, you don't have this
one gigantic paycheck. It's like everybody's pulling in the same direction.
Like did they bring in Hartenstein. He's a starter but
like kind of a role player but great energy, and
everybody welcomes them in, Like everybody that like Baine. I
was watching the videos today when he got to Orlando.
The guys were like, it's it's like he's one.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Of the guys.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
He's a young guy who, by the way, because he
was in Memphis behind Jahn Morant, probably didn't get appreciated
a lot or a lot of attention. And Bain was
the more mature player, the more consistent player, the more
available player.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And the better shooter.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But John Moran it's great for highlights, so Bain gets overlooked,
but not by smart GM. So Bain's probably like, Okay,
now I get into a more you know this is
I mean Sugs, the Gonzaga guy, Bnkaro, Duke, Guy Vogner's
at Michigan guy like there, these are grown ups.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
They're ready to play.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And I thought, I think we talked about this in
the Boston series. It was like two or three times
you and I were like, what the hell is this
series so competitive? Like like Orlando can't shoot, Boston takes
the most this shit. We should have some blowouts and
we didn't. The games were really competitive. We felt that
way about the Knicks and the Pistons too. It's like,
(19:37):
what Scott kid Cunningham's really graduated to another class. And
so I liked it, and I also just aggressive wins.
Go get Katie and Golden State the Lakers, you know,
trade for gasol, trade for Shack. Take big swings. Absolutely
poor Zingis and Drew Holliday. Boston, like, you have to
take swings in this league because you're not going to
(19:58):
be able to bank these stars. You're not gonna have
the Heetls, You're not gonna have Katie to the Warriors.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So what you're gonna do is, can.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You get a group of really good B plus A
minus guys that all fit and Orlando fits Bain literally
fits perfectly with a team. Yeah, it'd be better if
it was two first not four, but those are gonna
be low first round picks.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Anyway, so I can live with it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
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Speaker 2 (20:57):
And there's like this. The splitting the different two timelines
approach comes with its own shortcomings. Like obviously, Golden State
was very fortunate on the strength of Steph to win
in twenty twenty two, but they've been paying the price
for not cashing in on some of their assets over
the course of the of the last few years. I
feel like Dallas is kind of staring down the barrel
of a similar type of situation. Like you got to
(21:18):
capitalize on the value that ad brings to the table
if you want to have sustained success around Cooper Flag
and like I just look at it as I look
at it as just an aggressive move that fits perfectly.
Desmond Bain has grown a lot too as a passer
coming off of screening actions, and I look at that
as something like a simple dynamic in the NBA that
can cause all sorts of problems. Is if you can
(21:40):
run a two man game where they don't want to switch.
And the problem is is when Franz and Pallo are together,
they get guarded by similar players, big strong forwards, and
with Jalen Suggs, he never shot the ball well enough
for teams to really account for him in those actions.
If you, as Desmond bain As one of the best
shooters in the league, come flying off of a screen
(22:00):
with Pawlow, you have no choice but to either switch
or to show, in which case Powlo will get better matchups,
He'll get more smalls to attack, He'll get more openings
to attack. I think it's just a really, really smart fit.
John Moran, on the other hand, gonna be twenty six
years old at the start of next season.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
How are you like?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I want to hear your take on the John Morant
Memphis situation.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Okay, so I feel vindicated, So I have been. This
has been one of my strongest NBA takes forever, which
is if you're under six to four in this league
and have the ball in your hands a lot. If
you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derek Rose,
John Morant, you're gonna have to drive to the basket
(22:43):
against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often.
If you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot,
it can prolong your career. You can do at you know,
you don't have to drive. You get a lot of
no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was yes,
I so it was said. I thought he was a
poor man's Dereck Rose. He's about fifteen pounds less than
Derreck Rose. And you know, I understand the NBA.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Media, he's a highlight player.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Forget the maturity for a second, which is I'm never
too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on
football players because they're twenty three and twenty four years old.
You bring twenty two year old, you bring eighteen nineteen
year old guys into the NBA, Okay, they're gonna screw
up like the first couple of years. Just just build
in a really bad decision. Now with Jaw it was
(23:29):
worse than that. But for me, it wasn't the maturity
stuff because he's a kid. It was okay, he's wildly
he's wildly entertaining. He's an incredible highlight player, but he's
not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last
several years it's gotten worse and he's hurt more so.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
He has aged very quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So I've never been a fan of hyper athletic guards
that aren't particularly good shooters. Now, Westbrook was so athletic
that he could be a poor shoe. And you know,
he's bouncing around the league now, but he Eire's just
not a lot of Westbrook's historically, and Westbrook mostly is healthy.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
He's a sturdy he has a running back. Jaw's not
I mean, what's job one eighty.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know, one seventy eight, So he's spindily. So I
just it's not that I wasn't a fan. He was
a spectacular talent. But I think everybody in the league
thought Zion and Jaw were going to take it over,
and it's gonna be a it's gonna be bang Caro
and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just it's
just interesting how much maturity and hard work matters, you know,
(24:35):
JDub Sga home grun I mean, it's just like really focused, driven,
aspirational players. And I think it was just too much,
too soon for him, and he got banged up. And
I think Memphis, by the trade, is telling you we're
going to start over. We're going to start and it's
the right move. They can't compete. We knew it this year.
(24:57):
It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what
Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for
a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You know, we were talking about power earlier, and the
one example of a guy who succeeded despite a lack
of power is Steph And Steph is both a great
shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team.
He's been healthy and and the tricky thing with like
John's gonna be twenty six years old at the start
(25:25):
of next season, and he's just straight up not as
good as he was three years ago. Like not as good,
he's just not as good as a bad at basketball,
And like, this is the age twenty six to twenty
seven is typically the age when players peak, like Tatum
best season of his career right at this age. This
is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure
it out. It's where it's kind of where like the
(25:46):
meeting point of the mental part of the game and
the physical part of the game. And from this point
forward it's kind of like a trade off. You get
a little smarter, a little more skilled, but you get
a little less athletic. This is the peak, right and instead,
like his scoring volume has like in twenty twenty two,
takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals,
he's going head to head with Steph talking shit to
him having such a great breakout playoff run. And ever
(26:09):
since then, his scoring volume has dropped every season since
that year, his efficiency has gone down. He just posted
his two lowest games played totals of his career in
the last two seasons. He's played fewer games in the
last two years than he did three years ago combined. Like,
it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis
and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected
(26:32):
first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young,
exciting talent on the roster, some guys like Gigi Jackson
that are interesting, Zach Edy that's interesting. They have guys
in house that they can continue to develop and be fun.
But they can bring in a massive trove of draft
picks by trading Maranton Bain and just doing a full pivot.
Not to mention Jaron Jackson, who I think carries a
(26:54):
great deal of value somewhere around the league, and so
I look at it as like a basically it's a
turning point for John Rant. You either got to commit
to him or you've got to get off the ship,
and the trade is a clear sign that they're going
to get off the ship. Not to mention like they
might look to trade KCP. I wouldn't be surprised if
KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in
the next season. I think it's just Memphis looking at
(27:15):
their situation and going like, we're sick of being in
this business.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
It's so.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Jaw is such a cautionary tale. When you look at
at big stars that explode and then and then fall
off and don't eventually rise to the level, it's always
kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that like
you just couldn't handle a spot, like like Zion couldn't
handle his weight. Wasn't terribly focused player. Zion I thought
(27:41):
was a tremendously just massive torque. There's just nothing like him.
I thought Joe was spectacular. But I think it's it's
one of the reasons I like nil as kids are
going to stay in college and they're going to be
surrounded by non basketball players and they're going to be
coached hard, and they'll go to class and it's like
a it's a it's a big broad life beyond just
(28:03):
basketball and a G league. So I think, and I've
talked about this multiple times, I think Nil's were going
to help the NBA and college basketball and you're gonna
get more guys. The Auburn player who j Mack loves.
Auburn's got a guard that's explosive. He's coming back to Auburn.
He could play in the NBA. It'll make him a
better NBA player and a great college player. So and
(28:25):
some of these European guys now are coming over to
college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball
has always been excellent, sometimes almost too dogmatic, right, like
it's just so coach oriented. But I look at Jaw
and I think the story of Jaw is a little
too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for
(28:45):
the stage. I mean, there was a moment in time
where you thought, for about a year maybe two, you're like, oh,
he's gonna be the face of the league. I mean
that was about three years ago, and then it all
just unraveled. And I don't think we need a face
(29:06):
in the league. I thought he for a while looked
like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's a
lot to ask and he wasn't ready for it.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, you know what happens in this league. It's success
is so short lived because people are coming for you.
You know, Like Jannis looks like he climbs the mountaintop
in twenty twenty one, looks like he's going to launch
this new Nope, here comes Jokich and he's the problem.
It's like Jah looks like he's about to climb the
mountaintop in twenty twenty two. Shay and Ant have both
lacked him since they've kind of reached their collective ceilings,
(29:37):
and like, I think, you know, I do believe in
John Morant. I do. He has a supreme athletic trait
in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an
underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of
like his floater and like little short stuff, I do
think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet
(29:57):
on him, a chance on him. As I look around,
and you know, we're gonna talk about KD here in
a second and KD as we're gonna talk about it
in more detailer in a second. But the Athletic has
reported that Katie is preferring the Spurs, which we'll get
to in a minute. But like Houston, if Houston can't
get KD, Like, would they consider a guy like John Morant?
(30:17):
Is there a team out there that has the that's
in a tough position that can afford to take that
kind of risk, maybe a Sacramento a team that's been
kind of stuck in mediocrity, Like, is there a team
out there that is willing to take a risk on
a guy like him? Because I do think the upside
is their calling. Like I I've seen a lot of
stuff over the last couple of days ranking him at
(30:39):
various points in the league, and I do think when
he's healthy, he's still like a right around the fourteenth
or fifteenth best player in the NBA because no one
can keep him in front. He is an extremely talented player,
That's the frustrating part is that it hasn't come together.
But I do think that there's some somebody out there
that's going to take a chance on him. But ultimately,
whether or not it works out is going to whether
(31:00):
or not Jaw actually makes the changes that he needs to.
Like you, got to improve, Like you, you have to
develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on
your legs. If he develops as a jump shooter, it
will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent,
which will help him stay healthier and available to his team.
There is a real upside there, he just hasn't been
able to capitalize on it. Colin, what are your thoughts
(31:22):
on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs. I
was not a huge fan of this fit. We were
talking last week about how Wemby being very thin, KD
being very thin, even deeron Fox is. He's a super
fast guard, but he's not a power player. Not a
lot of power on that roster. Colin, what are your
thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, I mean to me, wem Bin Yama and Stefan
Castle are the are the team. Like, that's nothing against
de Aaron and Vassal, but I think those two guys
are all stars, one of them all NBA. So and
I think they're just getting better fast.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't fit anywhere.
I think he fits everywhere. Like my wife always says,
says like salt works with everything, you know, Like like
like my son was a chef. My stepson's like, yeah, Bacon,
Grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like
(32:24):
you can just find a spot for a guy who's
the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So and I.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Also think Kevin it just kind of figures it out.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I don't always like his decision making on teams, but
even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked
about it. He was the one thing I mean in Arizona,
in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beale that drove us nuts.
Kevin Durant was giving me twenty six and twenty seven.
I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with you know,
(32:59):
his like team selection, but I just kind of feel
like he's water, Like he just he just kind of
floats and finds his level and I think he'll fit anywhere.
And I also think you got really smart between Chris
Paul and de Aaron Fox. You know, you have good
guiters on that team, like really smart guys, and.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
You can be a.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the
Miami Heat like one of the smartest teams in league history.
It's like Alan Lebron Way Bosh Battier Haslam, It's like
she's high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove
everybody crazy. Wade and Lebron kind of had duplicate games,
(33:44):
and you're like, yeah, they got the four straight finals,
like they just figured shit out right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
And I kind of feel like.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
If you put Wemby and and and it's Fox and
it's you have to move off. I think Harrison Barnes
we talked about before. I think it was the but
I mean, I just think Kad would work. I think
it would just work.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I think it. I think Houston needs him more.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
But I mean I think he looks at Houston and thinks,
all right, like like sanm Goon, Yeah, i'man Thompson is
he a great offensive player, yet he's more of an
athlete defensive player.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I think Katie's smart and looks at it and just thinks, man,
I could have bad shooting nights and we could score
one twenty eight in San Antonio. Like I think that's
how he looks at it. Maybe I'm wrong, you know,
I want to be clear.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Just because I say it's not my favorite fit doesn't
mean it can't work. Like I'm a big believer in
don't overthink things, like don't overthink Kevin Durant next to
Victor wibin Yama and Darren Fox, like they're gonna score
a lot of points and they're gonna be able to,
uh to get a certain number of stops. There's I
there is you were just talking about with Desmond Baane.
(34:59):
There's a reason Desmond Baynes shooting is so incredibly valuable
in the Orlando context on a team that not only
doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but
doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off
the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team.
KD anchored by the physicality of Houston. I like the
kind of like force multiplier effect he could have there.
(35:21):
That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's
obviously a massive upgrade. He's obviously gonna make them way better.
There's even like some interesting stuff you could look at
in the big picture. KD is like probably the best
shooting workout guy in the league, to pair Victor Webinyama with.
He's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts, him
(35:43):
going game speed, him working on shots that are specifically
available in NBA games off of certain actions. KD is
like a legend in his workouts off the floor. Wenby's
going to be doing all those workouts with him, you
know he is, and it would lead to a certain
development terms of Wemby's big picture health. But it looks
to me more like less of a in immediate contender
(36:08):
juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place
for Katie to end his career where he can get
right in hand in Wemby.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You know That's what I think. I think Katy looks
at it and thinks this would be fun. Is that
it wouldn't be I wouldn't have to drop twenty eight points,
would come easy. And I think Katie looks at it
and thinks, Okay, dearon Fox, you know, wemby the structure
of the organization, they draft smart players. They don't draft
a lot of ego, they don't draft a lot of dummies.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think Katie looks.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
At himself and thinks, Okay, Houston's got this. There's a
lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's
ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a
lot of hyper athleticism and length and running and I
and I and that's fun. But I think I don't
think at this point he wants to be a mentor,
right like I think he wants to go I'm gonna
go have some fun and play with really smart players,
(37:00):
highly functional players, and all put the pressure on me
to figure out where I fit, you know, like they
don't need him. I think Houston needs him. I think
the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know,
I think for KD, it is I think it's perfect.
That would be fun. It would be fun for him,
and I think it would be fun for us.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It falls in line with the same ideology that led
him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point,
KD could win a title in Houston, but it would
be a chore and offense would come very difficult. He'd
be facing crazy looks. Now, the flip side of that
is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster
(37:42):
in Houston that he would be in other situations because
Houston's defense is so good that he would just need
to basically lift them over the top on the offensive
end of the floor. But there is something to be
said about basketball is more fun when the ball's moving
around and you're playing with more offensive skill and when
you like kd If there's one weakness at this point
in his career, he doesn't pressure the rim a ton
(38:02):
well dearon Fox, sure as hell does. So like he's
gonna get to playoff of those advantages and play off
the ball like there is a Katie has told us
to our faces exactly who he is for years. He
loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand
of basketball. And so even if we look on it
and add it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big, strong,
(38:23):
physical team, they can anchor him with defense. Emy Udoka
is not the best offensive coach in the world. That
team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. It would be
a lot like Oklahoma City in twenty sixteen, And I'm
thinking he looks at that and goes, I'd rather play fun,
free flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And
so with that being the case, I mean San Antonio
is going to be a really interesting team if they
(38:44):
pulled something like this off. All of a sudden, a
guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have
to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms
of size and strength. Stefan Cassel obviously defensively as a guard,
would have to do a lot of that work. Again,
I'm not sure that I would view that Spurs team
is exceptionally dangerous, But what a fun way for Wemby
(39:06):
to start his career and what a fun way for
Katie to end his career.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, I think also Katie looks at Lebron and thinks
Lebron's always figured it out is Lebron doesn't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Want to do a lot of the dirty work.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do
some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be
like Steph in Golden State, where it's like, oh, Steph
plays poorly.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
That's the narrative when they lose.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
It's not Jimmy Butler, it's Steph In Houston, very quickly
he would be because because Jalen Green's a hot and
cold shooter, and very quickly if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie,
you know, an off shooting night.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
We traded for him. He was supposed to save us
from this.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
That's right, and it's just not the case in San Antonio.
He'll be part. And I do think as players get older,
they're looking for fit, and you know it's it's and
I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've
always liked fit. It's just fun to be part of
a group, a mix of young and old.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
But you don't want to be a mentor, like I
just don't think Katie.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
At this point, I think fun is a really interesting
word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why
he went there and Golden State no longer because of relationships.
Wasn't he wasn't having a good time.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
He was winning, and so yeah, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
He's had an all time career. He's a different cat.
But you know, I've come to terms with not everybody
is the same. I really do think though, what you're
seeing right now in the NBA, I really like, and
I know we don't have a super team, but it's
becoming like the NFL. It's a very GM driven league.
(40:43):
Like the smart gms are going to win. A lot
of them are in the West, and they have been
for thirty years. That's why the West is overwhelmingly top
to bottom, always deeper than the East.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
You just have more good owners and more good gms.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
And the other thing is, I think what we've really
seen this there's a lot of maturity in the league
right now. Like Indiana and Oklahoma City. I mean, these
are grinding outfits. I mean I think Indiana plays pretty
good defense. I mean again, juxtaposition with Oka se juxtaposed
to that, well, it doesn't look the same. But there
(41:18):
was there was a in the second quarter in this game.
I was like, God, India has given them problems. So
I just I think the league right now it went
through a cycle where it felt kind of you had
old stars and two young guys like you know, and
you had these Jaws and these zions.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It's like they're just not ready.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton
and SGA and Jalen Williams and and it's just like
really good Tatum, really good young players totally dedicated to
the league, and fewer and fewer old guys are relevant.
And I think it's I don't It may not get ratings,
but I I'm I really like okay see in Indiana,
(42:02):
Like I really respect top to bottom both organizations.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
The point about maturity is is a good one because
these two teams are relatively young, and young teams young
young NBA teams famously don't play defense because young guys
in general, it takes time for them to learn how
to prioritize how they spend their energy. But yeah, I
you know, I'm I'm I'm generally pretty happy with the
trajectory of the NBA. Every era in the NBA has
(42:27):
some stars that are a little bit more boring, you know,
like for instance, to meet Shake Shae's like the guard
version of Tim Duncan. He's not the most exciting player
in the world for me to watch, but he's incredibly
dominant at his position. But we do have musty television,
like I think Wemby is mussy television. I think Anthony
Edwards is musty television. There are certain guys in this
league that bring the pop, and so we just need
(42:50):
to take some time over the next couple of years
for the public to kind of ingratiate themselves with these guys.
And I'm still a big believer in the NBA. There's
stuff they need to clean up, there's certain things that
can get better. It's not perfect. I wish they'd shortened
the season a little bit, but like this has been
a fun playoff front, Colin, I've really really enjoyed it,
and the Pacers have like reinvigorated my love of basketball
in a real way just because of the just the super,
(43:12):
super fun brand of basketball that they've play. I've really
really enjoyed it. But Colin, we really appreciate you giving
us your time tonight. Man, you met For all of
you guys that are hanging out on the YouTube tream,
we are headed over to play back when we're done,
so playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. We'll take some
callers and watch some film.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Colin.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Was good to see you, buddy, and we'll see you
next time. What's so, guys, As always, I appreciate you
for listening to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually
be really helpful for us if you guys would take
a second and leave a rating and a review. As always,
I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could
take a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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Slash audio A wellcome to tonight, you're at the volume?
(02:01):
Have you Monday? Everybody? Hope? All of you guys having
a great start to your week. Well. The pinnacle game
of the NBA Finals Tonight Gate Series tied at two
back in Oklahoma City and the thunder behind seventy one
combined points from Shake Gilgess Alexander and Jalen Williams take
a three to two lead in the series. Colin Coward
is joining us again. Colin, you and I talked last
(02:22):
after Game three. I believe about the rosters, and we
talked about how down the roster Indiana's pretty close in
terms of depth of talent, but at the top end
on Oklahoma City can be tough to contend with. And
I thought both JDub and Shay were brilliant tonight. What
were your thoughts on game five?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh, Jalen Williams is such an interesting player. So he
goes to a small college, Santa Clara, and you know
is a slow developing player. And the last part of
his game to mature was scoring. You know, he was long,
He worked really hard. I think both of his parents
were in the military, you know, class like hard working
(03:02):
no bs.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You know, you can see his game, you can see
the work.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
He's put into it. Whenever you see a guy with
great touch around the rim. A lot of guys can
hit jumpers. Everybody had, you know, everybody sits in huge
jumpers all day at practice. But when I see a
guy that's elegant and soft around the rim, like that's work.
That is years of working in the gym, often by yourself,
(03:26):
and you know, so here's the guy small college developed
slowly comes into the NBA, and you and I have.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Talked about this.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I always thought, because Chuck Holmgrim was he's a really
good defender. First half the night he was incredible. And
I always thought, because his body type is so unique,
can you pay home gren sj and Jalen Williams And
I always thought they just keep homegrin. But his offense
is so all over the map, and Jalen Williams is
(03:55):
just such a natural easy score that you I just
feel like if I said for the rest of his career,
he averaged twenty seven and like, not all of them
are memorable. It's just he just fills the box, like
gets jumpers.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It's touch. It's just he's just such a natural easy score.
I don't even know if he has a go to move.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Almost every guy, Like if guys said, close your eyes
Jason twenty seven points a game. If I said Durant
or staff and I give you players, you can kind
of see the archetype of their offense, Like you can say, okay,
that's his move. That Halliburton's three with Jalen Williams. It's
just all over the place, threes, driving transition. I just
(04:44):
there's not a lot of guys in the league like him.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, his power, I think is his signature. And I've
actually found this really fascinating because if you dig back
through NBA history recently, we're on like a decade plus
nowhere where power dominates in the NBA finals unless your
name is Steph Curry. Like, you go back and it's like,
in twenty twenty four, you know, Luca, Luca is the
best player in the playoffs. He brings a ton of
(05:09):
power to the position. Twenty twenty three, it's Jokic obviously,
Stephan twenty twenty two, but in twenty one it's Yannis power.
Twenty twenty it's Lebron power. Twenty nineteen it's Kawhi power.
You go back again, more Steph Curry, but then it's Lebron,
it's dunkin in Kawhi. There's a reason why power thrives
in this setting, and it's because it gets super physical.
I mean, it's you know, it's really fascinating to me.
(05:31):
I've talked about this concept with you before, but to me,
ball pressure in physicality on the perimeter in the NBA
is similar to me like a pass rush in the NFL.
And we see this so often in the NFL playoffs
where a pass rush gets hot and nobody can protect
quarterback and plays all breakdown within the first second and
a half after the snap, and it changes the entire
dynamic of a game. And that's the test you have
(05:52):
to pass with this Oklahoma City Thunder team, with this
Indiana Pacers team, with their ball pressure. These two teams
they pick you up full court. They're super physical, and
it's the powerful guys that thrive. I mean, you don't
think it's a coincidence that TJ McConnell was awesome again
tonight because he brings power to the guard position. And
what Jdubb is is he is a big, strong wing
(06:13):
that brings downhill power. And you're right, like I would argue,
J Dubb's you know, skill, talent, imposition on the game
is his versatility. He's just really good at everything. You
look at other power players from the wing, like look
at Jaylen Brown from the Celtics, nowhere near the passer
that Jadub is and the processor that Jadub is. JDub
(06:37):
brings this mix of downhill power with shot making from
all three levels, the soft touch around the basket, the
mid range pull ups, the three point shooting, but also
the playmaking to boot. And then he's also been a
guy that's been one of the most important defensive players
for the Thunder all season. He is, to me, the
definition of the type of player that's going to thrive
(06:58):
in the playoffs for a long time. A strong forward
that can do everything. He is the Jimmy Butler of
this era.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, and he's one of those guy. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I was thinking about his comp tonight, and he's got
Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
He feels, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
He he's only about six five and a half, like
he plays bigger than his size, and I think that's
his length and his touch. But I really thought the
story of the game wasn't SGA. I thought the story
of the game was Holmgren's defense. First half around the rim,
I mean, the Pacers probably missed eight chippies. And then
I thought in the second half, every time they got close,
(07:35):
it was really j Dubb that hit a shot, and
I mean, so did SGA. But I was like encouraged.
I thought the fact that Indiana got it down to
two or three. I was like, this is impossible. This
is not winning this game, you know, without Halliburton to
be pretty competitive in the second half, I think speaks
(07:57):
well to Indiana. I think they'll play willy competitive basketball
in Game six. You know, I think we've kind of
established defense wins championships. And I thought the last three
minutes of the last game and tonight, early and late,
it's just we're seeing this defense. Like you say, they
(08:18):
clog you up and suffocate you on the perimeter. You
drive sort of sometimes out of control because you're just
they got a body on you, and then you throw
up kind of a wild shot, and it's often met
with resistance at the rim. Even the follow ups to
your misses, even the follow ups are contested. There's just
length and Hartenstein and home grin and bodies. So I
(08:41):
think we're seeing and I talked about this the other
day with JAMAC on the air. When we have historically
great defenses against great offenses, defense usually wins.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's just disruptive.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We've seen Patrick Mahomes blown out twice in his career,
both in Super Bowls when he couldn't be protected. I
feel like Indiana's just has just been disrupt and they
without Haliburton at full strength, they just don't have a flow.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
There's no flow to their offense.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, I thought Shaye was great again tonight. I thought,
you know, it's been interesting. He's had a couple of
higher scoring total games in this series. He had thirty
five in Game four. Didn't think he was particularly great
in that game, Dad, I think he had thirty four
in Game one. I didn't think he was particularly great
in that game. But in this game you could tell
right out the gates he was making that concerted effort
(09:26):
to keep his teammates involved. Colin, they only attempted sixteen
threes in Game four. They had seventeen three point attempts
just in the first half tonight because of the better
floor game that Shaye was playing, keeping everybody involved. But
every time I think about this Thunder team, it is
the defense that I'll remember, Like when people talk to
me about this Thunder team, I will remember them as
(09:47):
a defensive juggernaut, and like it's the two layer approach,
and you described it perfectly. It is the physical ball
pressure that causes you to rush and panic that is
then layered by the rim protection and it even extends
beyond shell or beyond shed, like she several times tonight
deflections around the basket because he's got super long arms
(10:08):
down there. You know, Chet to me is like kind
of the secret sauce of this defense though, because you
know Colin, we saw a great example in the Houston
of Golden State series in round one. You can have
really good perimeter defenders, but every team needs to have
big guys on the floor because big guys are a
part of basketball, right, Like he can't just go out
there and play five guards. You'll have all sorts of issues.
And big guys are targets. They are the point at
(10:31):
which every offense tries to get into your defense by
attacking your big guy in pick and roll. And Chet
is just this freakish weapon because he can do all
the big guy stuff in terms of length around the rim,
but he can also switch out onto the perimeter and
guard these guards, and so it's like the it's like
the ace in the hole for this thunder defense is
(10:51):
like a lot of times you'll fail the first test,
like when Pascal hit that three to make it ninety
five ninety three. From that point forward, Indy could barely
get the ball across half court without turning the ball over,
so like their guards can do an insane amount of damage.
But it's like, even if you pass that test and
you get through the ball pressure and you move the
ball through their defense and you get something around the rim,
(11:14):
it's just arms everywhere that you're dealing with at the
rim and all of those misses, all of those contested
rebounds that they came down with. Oklahoma City's defense is layered.
It's frightening. It wears you down. I mean like Indy
was right there and they let go of the rope
for like ninety seconds and they're down thirteen points. And
I'm with you, as we had the game six, I
(11:36):
think Indiana always is going to have a chance at
home with the energy Oklahoma City's young we have discussed
on this show. Oklahoma City on the road is not
the same team. But I thought Indiana's chance to win
this series was to win the home games because I
just think Oklahoma City can lay like leverage their athleticism
at home in a way that Indy just can't match.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, and again Halliburton's hurt. It's not the same team'd
be like taking you know to some degree SGA out.
So I thought Caruso again tonight, I mean they forced
twenty three turnovers the thunder did think about that. Indies
a team all year that didn't turn the ball over,
like Halliburton doesn't turn the ball over. So you take
Halliburton out a lot tonight and it looks really sloppy,
(12:20):
really fast. Again, They're They're just a special team, you know.
I think you know, Indiana is a surprise to be here.
And the West is much better than the East, and
so like in the football, the AFC is much better
than the NFC. So the AFC becomes much more predictable
(12:41):
because you have four or five elite teams Chiefs, Bills, Ravens,
and I think the West is more predictable because you
have like Oklahoma City has the leading scorer and the
best defense, and Denver has the best player in the world,
and the Warriors have the Steve Kerr and at Draymond
and Butler and Steph and you kind of know what
you're getting in the West, whereas in the East it's
like who's healthy and who's hot. So Indiana just flies through.
(13:05):
But I will say, is so I think the East
is wide open and I think Indiana's.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Pop or now.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
They were in the Eastern Conference finals last year, but
I mean they flew through Milwaukee, flew through Cleveland, controlled.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
New York, and we're two.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Two with this team. And I think some of the
trade that Memphis and Orlando made was Orlando going, Okay,
the Knicks don't have a coach, Tatum's hurt next year,
why can't we do in Indiana? We got sugs, we
got BN Caro, we got Wagner. Let's go get a
Western player whoeverage is nineteen, he may average twenty two
(13:48):
over here. And I think I think Orlando looked at
Indiana and thought, why not us. I mean, I mean,
they don't have a guy that scores over twenty. BN
Caro could be first team All NBA next year. So
I think when I watch Indiana, I think they're they're
they're encouraging. They've got young, astnding players, they've kind of
(14:09):
meshed together in the East, and you're like, Okay, it
was one thing when Boston was.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Winning with a stacked roster.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Indiana, I can't in I think I said it during
the Boston Orlando series. I'm like, man, they're about a
year away from being really really good. So I think
Indiana is one of those teams that may not make
it back and it may just be lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I really like them a lot, but I.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Think okay See is historically special defensively and we're seeing it.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, the the East to me feels wide open in
a different way where I agree with you. Like the
Boston was like this clear number one out east, but
then you had this like group of three four teams
that you knew were going to be in the mix,
you know, Milwaukee, New York. That was the mix that
we knew was going to be at the top. But
now with Boston kind of dropping out of that group,
it does feel wide open. Like Eveland is very good,
(15:00):
but everyone knows they're beatable, Like the Bucks will be
there if Giannis is still there, but like we know
that they're beatable. The Knicks, we know that they have
their flaws and their issues. They have a front court
that you can attack defensively, and I think what the
Pacers have demonstrated in a lot of ways is that
you can, you know, OutKick your coverage, so to speak,
in terms of the talent on your roster when there
(15:21):
is a great deal of one that the coaching that
maximizes the talent. But the second piece is from a
general management perspective, like actual complimentary pieces that fit and
accentuate each other. And that, to me is what I
look at with the Desmond Bain trade, because like, your
initial reaction when you see that sort of thing is
to go four first round picks unprotected, Like, my goodness,
(15:41):
that's a steep paycheck, and like I get that on
the surface, and ultimately whether or not that ends up
being worthwhile will be whether or not this team has success,
and if they have success, they make the finals. No
one's going to care about those four first round picks.
It's about whether or not this pays off. And Desmond
Baine is a perfectly complimentary player to what those two
(16:03):
guys do. Is he is one of the best jump
shooters in the NBA. Among fifty eight players this year
to attempt at least five hundred jumpers, he ranked twelve
in efficiency.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
By the way, Colin and the Magic couldn't shoot last year.
That's what they couldn't do.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
They couldn't shoot. By the way, you want to know
his number one on that list, Kevin Durant Kevin Durant
is still the best jump shooter in the NBA. I
thought that was interesting when I was digging into the data.
But he specifically shot sixty percent from the field on
shot attempts coming off of off ball screens. So when
he comes running off of action off the ball, he
(16:37):
knocks it down at an extremely high rate. He shot
fifty two percent on threes specifically coming off of off
ball screens. The magic could not create space for Palo
in Franz. That was the problem the Desmond Bane in Memphis,
they so desperately needed him to hit shots because he
was their secondary shot creator. It was a little bit
too much for him. But in this setting next to Franz,
(16:59):
next to it's more important for him to be able
to create openings for them. His ability to shoot on
the move, shoot it out of screens, shoot off the dribble. Specifically,
in the context of Franz and Paolo, you're going to
get as a force multiplier rather than a diminishing return.
And that really is the key. Like when I'm looking
at talent, it's like they could have gone and got
(17:21):
Bradley Beal and maybe that's a player that you think
is maybe a higher regarded player in the league or
something like that. Desmond Bane's talent fits perfectly with those
guys in a wide open conference, and that's a huge, big,
strong team that should be able to cause a lot
of damage with their physicality. And the last thing I'll
say about it, Colin, Desmond's not the best defender in
(17:44):
the world, but he's pretty solid. Jalen Suggs is the
best guard defender in the world, and so he will
never have to guard the best guard on the other team.
He's gonna be in favorable matchups, He's going to be
surrounded by physicality. His skill set perfectly matches what Franz
and Paolo do. I think it was a type of
swing that could legitimately put them in the finals. And Colin,
(18:06):
you're the one who's always preaching this on your show. Yes,
it was expensive, so was Kawhi for the Raptors in
twenty nineteen. At a certain point, you got to push
your chips in the middle if you want to try
to win well.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And I again, I think Orlando looks at it and thinks, Listen,
Baine's like twenty five or twenty six years old.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's like Oklahoma City.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You don't have this aged star, you don't have this
one gigantic paycheck. It's like everybody's pulling in the same direction.
Like did they bring in Hartenstein. He's a starter but
like kind of a role player but great energy, and
everybody welcomes them in, Like everybody that like Baine. I
was watching the videos today when he got to Orlando.
The guys were like, it's it's like he's one.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Of the guys.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
He's a young guy who, by the way, because he
was in Memphis behind Jahn Morant, probably didn't get appreciated
a lot or a lot of attention. And Bain was
the more mature player, the more consistent player, the more
available player.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And the better shooter.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But John Moran it's great for highlights, so Bain gets overlooked,
but not by smart GM. So Bain's probably like, Okay,
now I get into a more you know this is
I mean Sugs, the Gonzaga guy, Bnkaro, Duke, Guy Vogner's
at Michigan guy like there, these are grown ups.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
They're ready to play.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And I thought, I think we talked about this in
the Boston series. It was like two or three times
you and I were like, what the hell is this
series so competitive? Like like Orlando can't shoot, Boston takes
the most this shit. We should have some blowouts and
we didn't. The games were really competitive. We felt that
way about the Knicks and the Pistons too. It's like,
(19:37):
what Scott kid Cunningham's really graduated to another class. And
so I liked it, and I also just aggressive wins.
Go get Katie and Golden State the Lakers, you know,
trade for gasol, trade for Shack. Take big swings. Absolutely
poor Zingis and Drew Holliday. Boston, like, you have to
take swings in this league because you're not going to
(19:58):
be able to bank these stars. You're not gonna have
the Heetls, You're not gonna have Katie to the Warriors.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So what you're gonna do is, can.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
You get a group of really good B plus A
minus guys that all fit and Orlando fits Bain literally
fits perfectly with a team. Yeah, it'd be better if
it was two first not four, but those are gonna
be low first round picks.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Anyway, so I can live with it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
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(20:46):
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Speaker 2 (20:57):
And there's like this. The splitting the different two timelines
approach comes with its own shortcomings. Like obviously, Golden State
was very fortunate on the strength of Steph to win
in twenty twenty two, but they've been paying the price
for not cashing in on some of their assets over
the course of the of the last few years. I
feel like Dallas is kind of staring down the barrel
of a similar type of situation. Like you got to
(21:18):
capitalize on the value that ad brings to the table
if you want to have sustained success around Cooper Flag
and like I just look at it as I look
at it as just an aggressive move that fits perfectly.
Desmond Bain has grown a lot too as a passer
coming off of screening actions, and I look at that
as something like a simple dynamic in the NBA that
can cause all sorts of problems. Is if you can
(21:40):
run a two man game where they don't want to switch.
And the problem is is when Franz and Pallo are together,
they get guarded by similar players, big strong forwards, and
with Jalen Suggs, he never shot the ball well enough
for teams to really account for him in those actions.
If you, as Desmond bain As one of the best
shooters in the league, come flying off of a screen
(22:00):
with Pawlow, you have no choice but to either switch
or to show, in which case Powlo will get better matchups,
He'll get more smalls to attack, He'll get more openings
to attack. I think it's just a really, really smart fit.
John Moran, on the other hand, gonna be twenty six
years old at the start of next season.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
How are you like?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I want to hear your take on the John Morant
Memphis situation.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Okay, so I feel vindicated, So I have been. This
has been one of my strongest NBA takes forever, which
is if you're under six to four in this league
and have the ball in your hands a lot. If
you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derek Rose,
John Morant, you're gonna have to drive to the basket
(22:43):
against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often.
If you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot,
it can prolong your career. You can do at you know,
you don't have to drive. You get a lot of
no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was yes,
I so it was said. I thought he was a
poor man's Dereck Rose. He's about fifteen pounds less than
Derreck Rose. And you know, I understand the NBA.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Media, he's a highlight player.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Forget the maturity for a second, which is I'm never
too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on
football players because they're twenty three and twenty four years old.
You bring twenty two year old, you bring eighteen nineteen
year old guys into the NBA, Okay, they're gonna screw
up like the first couple of years. Just just build
in a really bad decision. Now with Jaw it was
(23:29):
worse than that. But for me, it wasn't the maturity
stuff because he's a kid. It was okay, he's wildly
he's wildly entertaining. He's an incredible highlight player, but he's
not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last
several years it's gotten worse and he's hurt more so.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
He has aged very quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So I've never been a fan of hyper athletic guards
that aren't particularly good shooters. Now, Westbrook was so athletic
that he could be a poor shoe. And you know,
he's bouncing around the league now, but he Eire's just
not a lot of Westbrook's historically, and Westbrook mostly is healthy.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
He's a sturdy he has a running back. Jaw's not
I mean, what's job one eighty.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know, one seventy eight, So he's spindily. So I
just it's not that I wasn't a fan. He was
a spectacular talent. But I think everybody in the league
thought Zion and Jaw were going to take it over,
and it's gonna be a it's gonna be bang Caro
and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just it's
just interesting how much maturity and hard work matters, you know,
(24:35):
JDub Sga home grun I mean, it's just like really focused, driven,
aspirational players. And I think it was just too much,
too soon for him, and he got banged up. And
I think Memphis, by the trade, is telling you we're
going to start over. We're going to start and it's
the right move. They can't compete. We knew it this year.
(24:57):
It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what
Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for
a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You know, we were talking about power earlier, and the
one example of a guy who succeeded despite a lack
of power is Steph And Steph is both a great
shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team.
He's been healthy and and the tricky thing with like
John's gonna be twenty six years old at the start
(25:25):
of next season, and he's just straight up not as
good as he was three years ago. Like not as good,
he's just not as good as a bad at basketball,
And like, this is the age twenty six to twenty
seven is typically the age when players peak, like Tatum
best season of his career right at this age. This
is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure
it out. It's where it's kind of where like the
(25:46):
meeting point of the mental part of the game and
the physical part of the game. And from this point
forward it's kind of like a trade off. You get
a little smarter, a little more skilled, but you get
a little less athletic. This is the peak, right and instead,
like his scoring volume has like in twenty twenty two,
takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals,
he's going head to head with Steph talking shit to
him having such a great breakout playoff run. And ever
(26:09):
since then, his scoring volume has dropped every season since
that year, his efficiency has gone down. He just posted
his two lowest games played totals of his career in
the last two seasons. He's played fewer games in the
last two years than he did three years ago combined. Like,
it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis
and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected
(26:32):
first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young,
exciting talent on the roster, some guys like Gigi Jackson
that are interesting, Zach Edy that's interesting. They have guys
in house that they can continue to develop and be fun.
But they can bring in a massive trove of draft
picks by trading Maranton Bain and just doing a full pivot.
Not to mention Jaron Jackson, who I think carries a
(26:54):
great deal of value somewhere around the league, and so
I look at it as like a basically it's a
turning point for John Rant. You either got to commit
to him or you've got to get off the ship,
and the trade is a clear sign that they're going
to get off the ship. Not to mention like they
might look to trade KCP. I wouldn't be surprised if
KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in
the next season. I think it's just Memphis looking at
(27:15):
their situation and going like, we're sick of being in
this business.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
It's so.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Jaw is such a cautionary tale. When you look at
at big stars that explode and then and then fall
off and don't eventually rise to the level, it's always
kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that like
you just couldn't handle a spot, like like Zion couldn't
handle his weight. Wasn't terribly focused player. Zion I thought
(27:41):
was a tremendously just massive torque. There's just nothing like him.
I thought Joe was spectacular. But I think it's it's
one of the reasons I like nil as kids are
going to stay in college and they're going to be
surrounded by non basketball players and they're going to be
coached hard, and they'll go to class and it's like
a it's a it's a big broad life beyond just
(28:03):
basketball and a G league. So I think, and I've
talked about this multiple times, I think Nil's were going
to help the NBA and college basketball and you're gonna
get more guys. The Auburn player who j Mack loves.
Auburn's got a guard that's explosive. He's coming back to Auburn.
He could play in the NBA. It'll make him a
better NBA player and a great college player. So and
(28:25):
some of these European guys now are coming over to
college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball
has always been excellent, sometimes almost too dogmatic, right, like
it's just so coach oriented. But I look at Jaw
and I think the story of Jaw is a little
too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for
(28:45):
the stage. I mean, there was a moment in time
where you thought, for about a year maybe two, you're like, oh,
he's gonna be the face of the league. I mean
that was about three years ago, and then it all
just unraveled. And I don't think we need a face
(29:06):
in the league. I thought he for a while looked
like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's a
lot to ask and he wasn't ready for it.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, you know what happens in this league. It's success
is so short lived because people are coming for you.
You know, Like Jannis looks like he climbs the mountaintop
in twenty twenty one, looks like he's going to launch
this new Nope, here comes Jokich and he's the problem.
It's like Jah looks like he's about to climb the
mountaintop in twenty twenty two. Shay and Ant have both
lacked him since they've kind of reached their collective ceilings,
(29:37):
and like, I think, you know, I do believe in
John Morant. I do. He has a supreme athletic trait
in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an
underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of
like his floater and like little short stuff, I do
think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet
(29:57):
on him, a chance on him. As I look around,
and you know, we're gonna talk about KD here in
a second and KD as we're gonna talk about it
in more detailer in a second. But the Athletic has
reported that Katie is preferring the Spurs, which we'll get
to in a minute. But like Houston, if Houston can't
get KD, Like, would they consider a guy like John Morant?
(30:17):
Is there a team out there that has the that's
in a tough position that can afford to take that
kind of risk, maybe a Sacramento a team that's been
kind of stuck in mediocrity, Like, is there a team
out there that is willing to take a risk on
a guy like him? Because I do think the upside
is their calling. Like I I've seen a lot of
stuff over the last couple of days ranking him at
(30:39):
various points in the league, and I do think when
he's healthy, he's still like a right around the fourteenth
or fifteenth best player in the NBA because no one
can keep him in front. He is an extremely talented player,
That's the frustrating part is that it hasn't come together.
But I do think that there's some somebody out there
that's going to take a chance on him. But ultimately,
whether or not it works out is going to whether
(31:00):
or not Jaw actually makes the changes that he needs to.
Like you, got to improve, Like you, you have to
develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on
your legs. If he develops as a jump shooter, it
will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent,
which will help him stay healthier and available to his team.
There is a real upside there, he just hasn't been
able to capitalize on it. Colin, what are your thoughts
(31:22):
on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs. I
was not a huge fan of this fit. We were
talking last week about how Wemby being very thin, KD
being very thin, even deeron Fox is. He's a super
fast guard, but he's not a power player. Not a
lot of power on that roster. Colin, what are your
thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, I mean to me, wem Bin Yama and Stefan
Castle are the are the team. Like, that's nothing against
de Aaron and Vassal, but I think those two guys
are all stars, one of them all NBA. So and
I think they're just getting better fast.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't fit anywhere.
I think he fits everywhere. Like my wife always says,
says like salt works with everything, you know, Like like
like my son was a chef. My stepson's like, yeah, Bacon,
Grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like
(32:24):
you can just find a spot for a guy who's
the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So and I.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Also think Kevin it just kind of figures it out.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I don't always like his decision making on teams, but
even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked
about it. He was the one thing I mean in Arizona,
in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beale that drove us nuts.
Kevin Durant was giving me twenty six and twenty seven.
I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with you know,
(32:59):
his like team selection, but I just kind of feel
like he's water, Like he just he just kind of
floats and finds his level and I think he'll fit anywhere.
And I also think you got really smart between Chris
Paul and de Aaron Fox. You know, you have good
guiters on that team, like really smart guys, and.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
You can be a.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the
Miami Heat like one of the smartest teams in league history.
It's like Alan Lebron Way Bosh Battier Haslam, It's like
she's high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove
everybody crazy. Wade and Lebron kind of had duplicate games,
(33:44):
and you're like, yeah, they got the four straight finals,
like they just figured shit out right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
And I kind of feel like.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
If you put Wemby and and and it's Fox and
it's you have to move off. I think Harrison Barnes
we talked about before. I think it was the but
I mean, I just think Kad would work. I think
it would just work.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I think it. I think Houston needs him more.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
But I mean I think he looks at Houston and thinks,
all right, like like sanm Goon, Yeah, i'man Thompson is
he a great offensive player, yet he's more of an
athlete defensive player.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I think Katie's smart and looks at it and just thinks, man,
I could have bad shooting nights and we could score
one twenty eight in San Antonio. Like I think that's
how he looks at it. Maybe I'm wrong, you know,
I want to be clear.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Just because I say it's not my favorite fit doesn't
mean it can't work. Like I'm a big believer in
don't overthink things, like don't overthink Kevin Durant next to
Victor wibin Yama and Darren Fox, like they're gonna score
a lot of points and they're gonna be able to,
uh to get a certain number of stops. There's I
there is you were just talking about with Desmond Baane.
(34:59):
There's a reason Desmond Baynes shooting is so incredibly valuable
in the Orlando context on a team that not only
doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but
doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off
the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team.
KD anchored by the physicality of Houston. I like the
kind of like force multiplier effect he could have there.
(35:21):
That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's
obviously a massive upgrade. He's obviously gonna make them way better.
There's even like some interesting stuff you could look at
in the big picture. KD is like probably the best
shooting workout guy in the league, to pair Victor Webinyama with.
He's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts, him
(35:43):
going game speed, him working on shots that are specifically
available in NBA games off of certain actions. KD is
like a legend in his workouts off the floor. Wenby's
going to be doing all those workouts with him, you
know he is, and it would lead to a certain
development terms of Wemby's big picture health. But it looks
to me more like less of a in immediate contender
(36:08):
juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place
for Katie to end his career where he can get
right in hand in Wemby.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You know That's what I think. I think Katy looks
at it and thinks this would be fun. Is that
it wouldn't be I wouldn't have to drop twenty eight points,
would come easy. And I think Katie looks at it
and thinks, Okay, dearon Fox, you know, wemby the structure
of the organization, they draft smart players. They don't draft
a lot of ego, they don't draft a lot of dummies.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think Katie looks.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
At himself and thinks, Okay, Houston's got this. There's a
lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's
ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a
lot of hyper athleticism and length and running and I
and I and that's fun. But I think I don't
think at this point he wants to be a mentor,
right like I think he wants to go I'm gonna
go have some fun and play with really smart players,
(37:00):
highly functional players, and all put the pressure on me
to figure out where I fit, you know, like they
don't need him. I think Houston needs him. I think
the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know,
I think for KD, it is I think it's perfect.
That would be fun. It would be fun for him,
and I think it would be fun for us.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It falls in line with the same ideology that led
him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point,
KD could win a title in Houston, but it would
be a chore and offense would come very difficult. He'd
be facing crazy looks. Now, the flip side of that
is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster
(37:42):
in Houston that he would be in other situations because
Houston's defense is so good that he would just need
to basically lift them over the top on the offensive
end of the floor. But there is something to be
said about basketball is more fun when the ball's moving
around and you're playing with more offensive skill and when
you like kd If there's one weakness at this point
in his career, he doesn't pressure the rim a ton
(38:02):
well dearon Fox, sure as hell does. So like he's
gonna get to playoff of those advantages and play off
the ball like there is a Katie has told us
to our faces exactly who he is for years. He
loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand
of basketball. And so even if we look on it
and add it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big, strong,
(38:23):
physical team, they can anchor him with defense. Emy Udoka
is not the best offensive coach in the world. That
team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. It would be
a lot like Oklahoma City in twenty sixteen, And I'm
thinking he looks at that and goes, I'd rather play fun,
free flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And
so with that being the case, I mean San Antonio
is going to be a really interesting team if they
(38:44):
pulled something like this off. All of a sudden, a
guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have
to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms
of size and strength. Stefan Cassel obviously defensively as a guard,
would have to do a lot of that work. Again,
I'm not sure that I would view that Spurs team
is exceptionally dangerous, But what a fun way for Wemby
(39:06):
to start his career and what a fun way for
Katie to end his career.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, I think also Katie looks at Lebron and thinks
Lebron's always figured it out is Lebron doesn't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Want to do a lot of the dirty work.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do
some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be
like Steph in Golden State, where it's like, oh, Steph
plays poorly.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
That's the narrative when they lose.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
It's not Jimmy Butler, it's Steph In Houston, very quickly
he would be because because Jalen Green's a hot and
cold shooter, and very quickly if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie,
you know, an off shooting night.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
We traded for him. He was supposed to save us
from this.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
That's right, and it's just not the case in San Antonio.
He'll be part. And I do think as players get older,
they're looking for fit, and you know it's it's and
I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've
always liked fit. It's just fun to be part of
a group, a mix of young and old.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
But you don't want to be a mentor, like I
just don't think Katie.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
At this point, I think fun is a really interesting
word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why
he went there and Golden State no longer because of relationships.
Wasn't he wasn't having a good time.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
He was winning, and so yeah, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
He's had an all time career. He's a different cat.
But you know, I've come to terms with not everybody
is the same. I really do think though, what you're
seeing right now in the NBA, I really like, and
I know we don't have a super team, but it's
becoming like the NFL. It's a very GM driven league.
(40:43):
Like the smart gms are going to win. A lot
of them are in the West, and they have been
for thirty years. That's why the West is overwhelmingly top
to bottom, always deeper than the East.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
You just have more good owners and more good gms.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
And the other thing is, I think what we've really
seen this there's a lot of maturity in the league
right now. Like Indiana and Oklahoma City. I mean, these
are grinding outfits. I mean I think Indiana plays pretty
good defense. I mean again, juxtaposition with Oka se juxtaposed
to that, well, it doesn't look the same. But there
(41:18):
was there was a in the second quarter in this game.
I was like, God, India has given them problems. So
I just I think the league right now it went
through a cycle where it felt kind of you had
old stars and two young guys like you know, and
you had these Jaws and these zions.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It's like they're just not ready.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton
and SGA and Jalen Williams and and it's just like
really good Tatum, really good young players totally dedicated to
the league, and fewer and fewer old guys are relevant.
And I think it's I don't It may not get ratings,
but I I'm I really like okay see in Indiana,
(42:02):
Like I really respect top to bottom both organizations.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
The point about maturity is is a good one because
these two teams are relatively young, and young teams young
young NBA teams famously don't play defense because young guys
in general, it takes time for them to learn how
to prioritize how they spend their energy. But yeah, I
you know, I'm I'm I'm generally pretty happy with the
trajectory of the NBA. Every era in the NBA has
(42:27):
some stars that are a little bit more boring, you know,
like for instance, to meet Shake Shae's like the guard
version of Tim Duncan. He's not the most exciting player
in the world for me to watch, but he's incredibly
dominant at his position. But we do have musty television,
like I think Wemby is mussy television. I think Anthony
Edwards is musty television. There are certain guys in this
league that bring the pop, and so we just need
(42:50):
to take some time over the next couple of years
for the public to kind of ingratiate themselves with these guys.
And I'm still a big believer in the NBA. There's
stuff they need to clean up, there's certain things that
can get better. It's not perfect. I wish they'd shortened
the season a little bit, but like this has been
a fun playoff front, Colin, I've really really enjoyed it,
and the Pacers have like reinvigorated my love of basketball
in a real way just because of the just the super,
(43:12):
super fun brand of basketball that they've play. I've really
really enjoyed it. But Colin, we really appreciate you giving
us your time tonight. Man, you met For all of
you guys that are hanging out on the YouTube tream,
we are headed over to play back when we're done,
so playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight. We'll take some
callers and watch some film.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Colin.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Was good to see you, buddy, and we'll see you
next time. What's so, guys, As always, I appreciate you
for listening to and supporting Oops tonight. They would actually
be really helpful for us if you guys would take
a second and leave a rating and a review. As always,
I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could
take a minute to do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
The volume
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