Nerd Sesh - Game 4 + NBA Lottery Reactions: Knicks BEST Celtics, Flagg to Mavericks - The Volume

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
What Charles Darwin? The nerves is where it's at. Welcome
everybody back into Nerd Sash as always, I'm Carson Bradber.
Alongside me is Logan Camden, and you already know the drill.
We got some playoff basketball to talk about today, but
we also have a wild NBA lottery to talk about.
We are going to start with today's playoff action, though,

(00:41):
and we're gonna start with the big dramatic outcome of
the day, the New York Knicks Logan lead another second
half comeback and take a three to one lead over
the Boston Celtics, Huge clutch performances from Jalen Brunson and
mckel Bridges. What do you have to say about them

(01:02):
being now in a really decisive advantageous position to take
care of this series?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, I do think the Knicks are gonna advance to
the Eastern Conference Finals. I think with Jason Tatum's injury,
which looked really devastating. Man, you got a feel for
the guy. Yeah, it looks like the Nixic gonna head
to the Eastern Conference Finals, which is kind of unbelievable
just because I thought the Knicks were way too flawed
to go on a run like this. I thought their
defense wasn't good enough. And I think Mitchell Robinson this

(01:31):
team is just committed to playing hard and really well
on that end. But I also think Mitchell Robinson deserves
a lot of credit for coming in and defending the
way he has and giving him great minutes. I want
to start with Brunson. Though. A couple of days ago,
I don't know if it was two or three days ago,
Paul Pierce went on boss Man Show Carson and said
something that I really disagreed with. On the heard Pierce

(01:53):
sid and I quote, Brunson can't be the best player
on a championship team. And even after a loss to
Boston and he made that take, I really disagreed with it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I think Jalen Brunson can be the best player on
a championship team. And I don't know if Pierce was
saying like overall, but offensively, I think he's there, man,
Like Brunson is just one of the most consistent and
best offensive players in the game. He gives you thirty nine,
five and twelve in this one on fourteen of twenty
five from the field and four of eight from deep.

(02:23):
Now you got to give shout outs to the contributions
from Bridges gives you ten points in the fourth quarter,
really got going an insane shot making display. Big shot
after big shot in this game. Karl Anthony Towns gives
you twenty three on eleven of fifteen from the field too.
And like I said, I think the defense og had
a good game. Two was a team effort from the Knicks,
and this is a really good team. But I just

(02:45):
disagree with that take.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think Brunson is the best player on this team.
I think he can be the best player on a
championship team. And in my opinion, if you put the
defense behind him and you put the pieces in place,
I think he can be And with how the East
is shaping up, he very well could be the best
player on a team that gets out of the Eastern Conference.
I'm like, that's it all out of the realm of possibility.

(03:08):
And this is a massive game for New York in
a massive win. It's really unfortunate the way it happens,
just that Tatum goes down, you know, dude, it felt
like we were gonna we were in for an instant classic,
a down to the wire kind of game, and the
Tatum injury kind of took the they are out of
this game and out of this series to an extent.
But I didn't think the Knicks were capable of doing this.

(03:32):
Now they've erased the two twenty point deficits in back
to back games, which had never been done before, and
now they survive a game where Jason Tatum gives you
a forty two piece. The Knicks are super resilient. They
ain't got no quit in him. And I'm super impressed
with the level that this defense has been able to
reach in the consistent that we've gotten out of this team. Man,
the Knicks are damn good, and I'm shell shocked, to

(03:55):
be quite frank with you, Carson, This, in my opinion,
is the most shocking result through the first four of
any series thus four in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
I completely agree. And I was just so so wrong
about this series. Man. I picked Boston and five after
they went down two games to nothing, I said, I
still thought that they would win. After they won Game
three convincingly, I felt affirmed in that stance, and I
was like, Okay, I think that they're gonna come back
and take care of business. But now the Knicks are

(04:25):
the team up three to one, and obviously the Tatum
situation does make you feel way way more pessimistic about
Boston's chances of coming back. Obviously, the odds are already
long there and it's a very difficult thing to do.
But I do think this is a basketball team that
is talented enough at full strength to pull that off.
We saw them erase a three to nothing lead and

(04:45):
get back to three games a piece against Miami a
couple of years ago. That team wasn't as good as
this current Boston team in my opinion. But I'm just
gonna be honest, man, it looks like he tore his achilles.
We'll see themri tomorrow. It is very rare that you
a non contact injury like that where a guy is
in that push off position and you see the ripple

(05:06):
in the calf and he goes down like that and
he can't put weight on it and he gets carried
off the court and wheel to the locker room like
it's something serious, and it just looks like an achilles like.
It's a pretty distinct injury to see normally, which is
a massive bummer that we can get into but regardless,
New York was gonna win this game. I think that
they were up six on that possession which results in

(05:27):
a breakaway steal, and then they go up eight and
like they had just been the better team in the clutch,
which has been the case emphatically in all three of
their wins in this series, which is how they had
to execute to come out with an upset. But it
really is Brunton and Bridges who I think deserve the
most credit for just clutch masterpieces. In the second half,

(05:49):
Jalen Brunson gives you twenty six, four and seven on
sixty eight percent through shooting. Mckel gives you fourteen to
five and two with two steals in a block on
seventy percent from the field. This was Brunson's shot making
at its absolute best. He is just raining threes, He's
getting to his turnaround over Derek White repeatedly, He's getting

(06:09):
into lane and is just showing you that incredible floater
touch that he has. And then Mickel was basically just
hitting the same shot over and over again, like they
kept playing drop against him, and he kept getting to
those short jumpers, those little fading leaning pull ups. If
it's from eight to fifteen feet, doesn't matter. He was
automatic on all of them, especially in the second half,

(06:29):
but he's always great on those shots. So it just
felt like Tatum was doing whatever he could to keep
the Celtics in this game. The guys around him were
not good enough in this one, but he kept delivering
big shots and he kept playing at that incredible level,
and the Knicks just had more Collectively, they just had
it going in a special way down the stretch. I

(06:49):
do think it was a collective effort. I shout out
those two guys, but I think you have to give
credit to Kat being as efficient as he was as
a scorer in this game. Now, defensively, I didn't think
that he was his best in this one. Few more
turnovers than you would like from him, but as a score,
very efficient og knocks down four threes. That was a
big bounce back offensive game for him considering how much

(07:10):
he struggled in Game three. And he's always phenomenal defensively.
And you mentioned Mitchell Robinson man. I think that he
is the X factor of this series who I underestimated
the most because the double big look has been so
effective for New York and He has been so game
changing defensively. This was a mediocre defense throughout the year

(07:31):
and it felt like that was just their ceiling coming
into these playoffs with Kat anchoring the five and with
Jalen Brunson as a seeming consistent liability on the defensive end,
Brunson has defended above my expectations in this series. Kat
has been better than I expected in these playoffs. But
the ability to have an actual awesome rim protector who

(07:51):
can also guard in space, who anchors the glass at
such a high level in Mitchell Robinson, it changes so much.
They have a one oh one defensive rating with him
on the floor. Man, that's just unbelievable. Players are shooting
forty eight percent at the rim when contested by Mitchell
Robinson in these playoffs. That's seventeen percent below their typical
numbers when the Celtics tried to go at him off switches.

(08:13):
He has defended at a high level consistently, and he
has five offensive rebounds in this game. He's a top
two offensive rebounder in basketball. I would only give Steven
Adams the edge over him. So everybody is doing their job,
and especially in this one, that was the case. And
you mentioned their fight man, their toughness mentally and physically,
these dudes playing such heavy minutes. This is a team

(08:34):
that effectively doesn't play more than seven guys whose starters
are expected to play forty plus minutes consistently. They have
been the team that has come through in the big moments.
Their clutch execution has just been phenomenal in all three
of their wins. And this one was most impressive to
me because in the first two games, obviously they have
to rally in a big way, and they seized the moment,

(08:55):
and I thought they defended their asses off. But I
also thought that Boston really did melt down in those
first two games, partly just because of their own incompetence
in those games and their own ability to knock down
some decent shots that they did get, especially in Game two,
and them just being very discombobulated offensively, and the next

(09:16):
took advantage of that. But in this game, it was
like the Knicks offense was just special and the Celtics
played pretty well offensively. Tatum was fantastic, and the Knicks
still were able to rise. I mean, they could higher level.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I was disappointed with Boston man. I thought there were
multiple portions of this game where I felt like Boston
really could have slammed the door on New York and
they just let them linger around. Like at a point
in the third quarter, Boston has a fourteen point lead, Man,
it really looks like they're about to not run away
with a game like New York was hanging around. But
then every single opportunity though, I just hated how Boston's

(09:51):
offensive process broke down. And I don't know, man, I've
been I've been impressed with New York, but I've been
maybe more so disappointed with Boston. It's it's a double
edged sword. But like, I just can't wrap my head
around it, man, Like Jalen Brown, stagnant offensive possessions, calling

(10:14):
way too many isolations, calling his number, the lack of
ball movement at certain points. It's so strange to me, man,
because Boston looks so different on a possession by possession basis. Man,
some possessions are really easy and free flowing. You'll get
four or five kicks in a pass and we'll generate
a wide open wing three cash and then other possessions,

(10:35):
one of the wings will bring up the ball and
Tatum was on I had no problem with Tatum calling
his own number today, I want to be clear about that.
Pull up three after pull up three, Big Midi after
big MIDI. It's like, all right, well, if he's got
it going, fine, Tatum, take all the looks you want.
But when Jalen Brown is getting clamped and can't hold
onto the basketball and is losing the rock consistently, it
isn't creating advantages and isn't getting by people. He's just

(10:58):
wasting possessions. Like I thought that was as big of
a component as anything else in this game, where Boston
would get out to these big leads, they end of
the first quarter, they go on a twelve Oho run
that really changed the tide. You know, they see his
control there. I just felt like they wasted a lot
of opportunities in this game. And I do I want
to rain praise on New York because this is a
big moment for the city and this team, and they

(11:19):
played well, but I felt like Boston also played way
below my expectations. And I think the people that have
to wear the brun of that are Jaylen Brown, Christoph Porzingis,
and Drew Holliday more so than anybody else. Especially I
did think though, Man, I think Jaylen Brown was really
bad in this game.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Awful in this game. Christophs Porzingis has been really bad
in these entire playoffs and can't give them more than
fifteen minutes in which he's terribly out of rhythm, and like,
I feel for him with this sickness, but it's just
been so so so far below his standard and what
they've needed out of him. So I definitely don't disagree
that individual guys dramatically underperformed for Boston in this game,
and I definitely don't disagree that they were not perfect

(12:00):
offensively at the same time, like Tatum was single handedly
covering up so much shit when he gives you forty
two points on seventy two percent through shooting, and like
Boston posted a one to twenty one offensive rating in
this game. So that's why I say it's very, very
different from games one to two, where their offense was
melting down and it was the Knicks defense that was
winning those games for them, along with Boston's offensive breakdowns.

(12:21):
Those two factors in tandem. This game, it was really
just the Knicks offense being even greater than a Boston
offense that actually was pretty good in this game. I
do think we have to talk about this Tatum performance though,
because it was just incredible. I thought that his offense
was sensational, obviously, and that's what we've mostly talked about
so far, but defensively, he was so disruptive, man, and

(12:43):
was just playing that free safety role at such a
high level. He was taking so many gambles, but none
of them felt like bad risks, like he was just
reading what the offense was trying to accomplish consistently and
jumping passing lanes over and over again, helping off of
his man to block a shot, like he just saw
where they were trying to go consistently and was blowing

(13:05):
up actions that he was anticipating. So so good on
that end, and then you mentioned it, man, it's really
the pull up shooting, but he makes seven threes in
this game. He has multiple beautiful, tough mid range jumpers
that he hits, and I thought the process was really good.
I mean, he was involving Kat and Brunson in the
action over and over again, and he was getting a
lot of good pull up for a portion of this game,

(13:29):
absolutely and to good results. And I really thought that
after Derek White's hot start because he got out of
the gates very very hot. Tatum was really the only
Celtic who had anything going, and he was just relentless
in this game, Like he did not want to let
them go down, and he did not want to let
them go out sorry, and he really did just about
everything in his power to keep them from doing that.

(13:51):
But if he has done for the series, which I
think it is very very likely that he is, Boston
cannot come back without him, not at the level that
Jalen Brown and christophs Zingis are playing at. And if
we are just out blame, most of it goes to
those two. Like I thought that Brown was wildly out
of control, five turnovers in this game, multiple offensive fouls,

(14:13):
his handle was terrible and sloppy, as it is way
too often, and he's just been bad in this series.
He's giving you twenty point five points per game on
under forty seven percent true shooting, really bad in the
first two games, really bad in this game, not that
good in game three, Like I thought, Tatum was the
guy who improved in Game three by a wider margin

(14:33):
than Brown did, So he has been not nearly good
enough for them. And then porzingis like I said, Man,
he's only able to play so much, and his shot
is ice cold, and he looks uncomfortable trying to score
around the basket.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
He's looking saw guards. Bro, I don't get it. Like
there was a possession where I want to say, was
it Brunson? No, it was hard. I think it was hard,
and I think Heart fouled him on the low blocke
and he went to the line. But it's like kp
tried to go up with the ball one time and
Hart contested it had to bring it back down and
go back up. It's like, Bro, Josh Harden, you got

(15:10):
nearly a foot on him. Bro, just shoot over him, Like,
I don't where is the Christoph worzingis that I'm know?
One wolf gone? And who did they replace him with? Man,
he doesn't look like the same player, Carson.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
No, he doesn't. He totally looks like a shell of
himself right now. And specifically, it is that scoring inside
the paint that's been so problematic. Well, the three point
shot has been just as bad. I mean, he's been
just awful. But you know what he's averaging in terms
of points per possession on post ups in these playoffs.
Logan point five, no four, no way twenty eight post ups?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
He was it last year, what like five point four
four or something.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, last year it was about point it was about
one point four. I mean it was like one of
the most efficient post up seasons that we've ever seen.
He was the most efficient post up player basketball. I
think it ended up being like one point three actually,
but this regular season it wasn't that insane, but it
was still a phenomenal number. It was one point one,
Like he is destructive. Actually it was closer to one

(16:12):
point two in this regular season. Again, so he is
normally so phenomenal there, and he has been so bothered
by physicality from all sorts of players off switches and
like the shots that he's taking don't look comfortable and
he's just badly out of hurd them. That's the other thing.
Like he's not getting the shots that I love, but
when he does get to good looks, he just can't
make them. So this is a guy who I thought,

(16:34):
when he's out there would have a top twenty five
level impact, not even remotely close. Just really really bad
stuff from him. And it does go beyond that. You
mentioned Drew holiday, like he's just taking a bit of
a step back from last year.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I don't know, I mean, like, actually I think it
is right, because it's been like a steady Yeah, it's
been a steady decline. He doesn't look confident handling anymore,
man Like, he doesn't look like he wants the ball
in his hands offensively at all. And like even Ed
Drew's apex, it's like he had his flaws in Milwaukee.
Is an offensive creator right as a score it's even

(17:08):
more dramatic now that he's spent this time in Boston
as an as a like you know, real primary off
ball like he is a he's almost like a defensive
specialist at this point.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, he effectively is. And like his pick and roll
volume was basically had this year compared to last year,
so he's already really reduced. Offensive responsibilities got reduced even
further this year, and he's just not somebody you can
expect to step up and contribute. And like him, going
from a guy who last year in the playoffs could
give you thirteen points per game efficiently to a guy

(17:41):
who's giving you under ten points per game, Like it
does matter just to have him not capable of carrying
even the low that he was caring for you last
year as a ball handler, as a creator, as an
offensive presence is significant, and I don't think that we
can ignore that. Like Jason Tatum was really terrible in
games one and two in this series, and that put
them in this spot as much as anything. Now, he

(18:02):
was phenomenal today, but they're down three to one for
a reason, and it's because in three games they haven't
been good enough and Tatum was a significant part of
that in the first two. So their offense just has
not been the same as it was last year top
to bottom, Like the stars have not been as good,
especially Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown last year was playing at
the level of a top twenty player in the playoffs

(18:23):
and he's just been really, really bad this year.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I just want to mention too, it has been a
continued trend through the regular season. It was a down year,
especially shooting for Brown and taking care of the basketball,
and he was still able to be really effective in
the regular season with like mismatched attacking and stuff like that.
I just want to bring up why I think this
matchup is so uniquely like hard for Brown and don't

(18:49):
get me wrong. He struggled more than I expected him to.
But it's like against a good offense. A lot of
Brown's value comes as the ability to be a really
great transition scorer. And I think the fact that Boston
hasn't been able to consistently get as many stops on
New York He's been a component of that, right, like
you're just not able to get out in the fast break,
but also New York's ability to fight on the glass,

(19:11):
I think has hindered his effectiveness. Like that's really where
you see Brown's value in my opinion, where he is
at his best as an offensive player is in the
open floor and in transition and to get those quick points.
And New York has done a really good job of
scoring consistently, so you can't you know, your defense is
able to set up and he has to attack sets.

(19:31):
But also there's not that many weak points in New
York for Brown to attack, right, Brunson would be the
one guy that you really look at or heart.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, I don't really agree with that at least in
terms of like coming into this matchup, I actually thought
that he would be able to go at Brunson. I
thought he would just think to beat Kat with his quickness,
and they've defended above expectations. But I don't think we
can look at this and say like, oh, it's a
tough matchup for Jalen, because if anything, I thought it
would be a favorable matchup and they've defended a expectations.

(20:00):
But also he just hasn't been good enough. I do
think the transition point is a really good one though,
And I think that Nick can I.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Before the only thing that I think that they have
done it. Not that I think the matchups are really poor.
He I expected him to be better. I also think
they've exploited his handle a little bit more as well too,
with like ball pressure and stuff like that. But the
transition thing I think is the biggest part of why
he's been so far below his average.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, and I wouldn't say that it's about the Celtics
not being able to get enough stops, because I think
through the first three games of this series they actually
defended excellently. This was the first game in which New
York has really gotten their offense going. Like in Boston's
Game one and two losses, their offense was the problem. Defensively,
they absolutely did their job. It's just the Knicks transition

(20:49):
defense has been really good. They do such a great
job of slowing the pace. I do think you make
a good point about their proficiency on the glass. Jalen
Brown in this series has eight total transition points man Man,
so it's a great point. That's where he's at his
best as a score, and he just has not had
the opportunities to do his thing there. The stars haven't
been as good. Porzingis obviously wasn't much of a factor

(21:10):
in the playoff run for them last year, but he's
been so so bad for them in this run. And
like overall, just the shooting hasn't been as consistent, the
process hasn't been as consistent. None of it has been
the same as it was last year, and that's really
disappointing to see from Boston. I do think that going
forward this day could be a lot darker for them

(21:32):
than just oh man, we went down three to one
of the Knicks because of this Jason Tatum injury, because
I think the ripple effects of that could be devastating
for them, because if we are talking about an achilles
tear that hasn't averaged ten month recovery time in the NBA.
If that's the case, Jason Tatum would be coming back
in mid March. Obviously we don't know the exact timeline, Okay,

(21:55):
but we'll just use the average here. That would make
it almost impossible effect impossible for them to win the
title next year. They would be a mid playoff seed
in the East. Tatum would have to somehow get into
playoff form exceptionally fast. Like that's just not reasonable to
expect to happen with that sort of a shrunk timeline.

(22:16):
So what I think we're probably going to see this
offseason from Boston is them start moving to cut costs
because they're going to look at the outlook for next
year and they're going to say, if Tatum isn't healthy
for a vast majority of the year, maybe the entire year,
we are not going to be capable of winning the title.
And if we can't win the title, we're not going
to be living in luxury tax hell where we're well

(22:37):
over the second apron Like, if we can't actually win
at all, there isn't reason to do that, especially when
this core is coming towards a close. No matter what,
Christopsperzinga's contract is going to be up after next year anyways,
Drew Holiday, I think they are probably going to look
to get off that money, just considering his age and

(22:59):
his regression, And it seems to be the belief among
Celtics media that they are going to probably move towards
that pivot this offseason now that Tatum has seemingly experienced
such a significant injury that will impact next year so
much so. I do think that that puts both Drew
and Porzingis potentially on the market. But the tough part is,

(23:19):
I don't think either of those guys are going to
yield great results, like to get off of an expiring
Christops Porzingis with his availability stuff like, I'm not even
sure he's a positive asset. Somebody's basically just gonna be
giving you whatever role players you can get back, and
you're trying to get off of money like that's not

(23:39):
going to be equivalent value to what he theoretically could
provide you healthy at his best. But sending to New
Orleans man, Yeah, that'd be fun to.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Git alongside Zion, you know, stretch big and protect the
rim a little bit. Maybe you get back I don't
know then, I don't even know what the pallet I
wouldn't want to give up even like a Herb Jones. Man.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be tough to get real returns,
and I think that the only reason really to trade
KP is to get off of the money. But it
seems like that's probably going to be a point of
focus for the Celtics ownership and then Drew, like just
all the reasons that Boston wants to get off of
him are the reasons that he's not going to be
appealing for other teams to take on exactly.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
And you have to trade him to a contender too,
because why would a young roster or any team like that.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
So you're, you know, but does a contender want to
be paying him thirty five million dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
And that's his bill? Yeah, So that's a hefty price
tag for for what Drew's given you right now?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Man, it is, and you're paying that for another three
years because he's got a player option through twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Do you think it's ridiculous to think that maybe JB
and KP aren't top thirty guys?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
I don't think that's ridiculous at all. I mean, I mean,
I didn't have Jalen Brown in my Top thirty. To
begin with, christophs prezingis even factoring in the illness, has
taken the most precipitous fall in terms of how I
view him of anybody in the NBA in these playoffs.
I mean just his rigidity in terms of play style,
which I already knew was a factor. Right, He's not

(25:12):
somebody who is able to create offense for himself. He's
not somebody who is defensively versatile. But my sales pitch
with KP was always the things that he does he
does at an extremely high level, and that is protect
the rim, and that his finished plays offensively as an
elite shooter, as an efficient role man, as a lethal
post up mismatch attacker. He's just been bad at those things,
and like, there comes a point where you just have

(25:33):
to be, like, all right, does healthy Christops persingis exist
for a playoff run? Because this is two years where
it's like he doesn't even have anything major. He's in
and he's out, and it's just so so difficult to
bank on his availability. So I really do think both
of those guys have been so disappointing, and that's the
biggest issue. For Boston in this playoff run. Is Jalen

(25:54):
Brown and christophs Persinka's underperforming.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I think it is, and I would I think you're
one of your best takes that I was on the
opposite side of. I think j dub I'm definitely okay
with having over Jaylen Brown just in terms of and
even though Jalen Williams hasn't been great in these playoffs,
I trust it.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
I mean, I don't think he's been inconsistent in this series.
He was great against Memphis. He was great against Memphis.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm just saying, like start to finish, I think Jadob's
had a couple of stinkers, and I don't want to
gloss over those, you know, down games. But I trust
him way more than Jaylen Brown to generate his own
shot in the half court and to get to a
good look because he is such a good mid range
shooter and his handle is on a completely other different
planet than Jaylen Brown. Bro Jalen Brown sometimes and like

(26:40):
I think it tends to get overplayed. He looks at
the ball when he dribbles sometimes. Man, I just can't
believe that an NBA player is still struggling with something
like that like a guy in such a high role, right,
Like if a big man, right, if he's handling in
the open flet's like, all right, man, he never handles.
But it's Jaylen Brown, Like.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
He's got the worst handle of any star wing and
it's not remote close.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's not, And that's a massive, massive problem. I also
think Jayalen Williams brings you more defensive versatility than a
Jaylen Brown, now that I'm thinking about it, right, Like,
Brown is an elite on ball guy because of his
strength and his ability to hang in those matchups. But
Jada can protect the rim at a high level, and
he brings you that on ball value. And I think
he's a better defender in the team context when you're

(27:21):
talking about defending as a collective. And so JB has
taken a hit KP, I don't even know where he's at.
Like I think Siakham should have been in my top thirty.
That's the guy that I feel most confident about. I
think I should have had cade higher. We'll we'll definitely
do a big time pod in the offseason. We got
a lot of time to chew on and stew on

(27:43):
stuff like this. But those two guys I think are
out and I'm disappointed. I'm I'm so dissy. I'm disappointed
in Porzingis more than anybody else.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Man.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I like, do what bare minimum I thought he could
give you? This is minimum numbers talking here, like ten
points seven boards. I don't even care how many minutes.
Dude on Like, it's been embarrassing, bro, He's like, he's bad.
He's been a negative for Boston.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, he has. I do think that with him, at
least you have to factor in the sickness. Now, he
wasn't really dealing with that apparently against Orlando, and he
was really bad in that series, but like the minutes
being limited, the fatigue obviously being a factor. He's been terrible.
But I think that you have to at least consider
that Jalen got no excuses and he's been really bad
as well. He hasn't been as bad as Porzingi's but

(28:35):
he doesn't have anything given him any sort of excuse.
So I think that we are going to see probably
some real big changes for Boston this offseason. The one
guy who I think you have to keep is Derek White,
and I do think that they are going to keep
Jalen Brown. I would not view him as untouchable really
by any stretch of the imagination. I think that with
his contract, like that's an overpay for the level of

(28:58):
basketball player that he is. But regardless, like it's definitely
not impossible that this is it for the Celtics contending.
Like I always thought, well, their windows wide open through
next season, presuming that they keep everybody because they had
this same core locked up and in place. Well, it
looks like next season very well might be cooked for

(29:18):
them with the Tatum injury. And so then they've got
Tatum and they've got White, and they've got Prichard and
Hauser on great contracts for a while. But if Christophers,
Brazingis and Drew are gone and you're not getting requisite
talent back, then you've got Jalen on this oversized contract
that's gonna limit you in certain ways in terms of
your ability to add high end talent on better value.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Horford's also like Horford's been the iron man for his
team too, but it's like when is he going to
take a hit.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, they've got to figure out their big man situation
if they are going to move on from KP Because
shout out Luke Cornett he's not the answer. He's solid,
but they're a really great franchise. They're managed is excellent.
I think the Brad Stevens did a phenomenal job building
this team. But it's not easy to just string elite

(30:07):
corps together back to back and keep putting together teams
that are capable of winning titles. Because I want to
be clear, like, the Celtics are obviously always going to
be in the playoffs as long as they have Jason Tatum,
and he is the level of player that he is,
and they have a Derek White and a Jalen Brown
like and Peyton Pritchert and Houser on these contracts, like
they're still going to be a good basketball team obviously,
But this was one of the most talented starting fives

(30:31):
last year that we had seen put together, and really
just the entire top eight was so exceptional. And if
that falls apart, like it's not going to be easy
to recreate something like that. And Tatum, as good as
he is, isn't one of those guys who is single
handedly going to get you into contending conversations. So I
hope that like this sort of doom and gloom long

(30:52):
term stuff is unnecessary and Tatum is okay. I just
really think that he's not, unfortunately, and I think that
next season is going to be significantly impacted, and I
think that is going to change a lot for the
Boston Celtics.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I completely agree on all that last thing I wanted
to say on this game too. I thought the Knicks
overcame a pretty bad whistle in this one too. I
didn't like a lot of the calls or non calls,
so be it with the refs, Like, I thought that
they should have got a few more, like just some
some of the foul stuff, some of the shots.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Jesse Datam got away with a pretty egregious double dribble.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh my god, I forgot.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
That's honestly, I respected the hell out of it, because,
like if you're Scott Foster and Bro picks up his
dribble and then just decides he has his dribble again,
like you have to think the ball got knocked out,
but it didn't. He's got his eyes, don't he Well,
but I think that Tatum's back was to him, so
I don't think that he had a great look at
the actual ball. I mean, I'm not excuse Bro.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I just I think the refs one I think. I
don't know, man, refs are bad in every league. I
feel like the NBA refs might be the war. And
the reason I say that is I just feel like
there's no level of consistency. I feel like I see
ship on my TV that the referees miss. It wasn't

(32:11):
just the tatum uh double dribble. Peyton Pritchard had that
hop step where he takes another step after the hop step.
I didn't think the initial hopstep was a travel, but
I thought he walked a little bit after that where
he shuffled.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
He also took a bomb thow, so maybe they could
have called a foul. I just they didn't eventually call
a foul.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I just feel like there's no level of consistency with
these refs, and it's deeply frustrating when I feel like
I'm doing a better job watching it on my TV
than the guys who are on the floor.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well, all right, man, go out there and actually call
the game. I'm not going to sit a lot easier
when you have a slow motion replay angle and you're like,
hold on, that looked like a shovel. I'm seeing it.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
How am I seeing it? In live time, but the
refs weren't. They're there at the game.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
There's a lot that they're trying to call him. Listen like,
I'm not going to disagree with some of the gripes
about inconsistent officiating, but it's a hard thing to do.
It really is a hard thing to call a full.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Speed Yes, I'm locked in, no miscalls, Bro, I do
what he pick up games? Man, Oh my god, I'm
standing there on the court the same as them. It's
not different, Bro, It's not that BRD.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
It's a little different.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
We you know what. Here's what I want to change.
I want to I want ball players to beat the refs.
I want former players to do the reffing because they
know what to look for, they know how the game
is played. I just think they'd understand it a little better.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Are you talking about former NBA players? Yes, brother, they're
not gonna do that. They've all made hundreds of millions
of dollars, tens of millions of dollars. You're gonna get
Tony Brothers, who wanted to be a judge, tailed at
that and then decided I'm going to use refereeing for
my power trip. And you're gonna like it. He doesn't
even like basketball. He just likes being in power and
calling fouls.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
What's that guy? We're gonna get fake Gucci Mane James.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
He's yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
I like him. He's too, He's all right. Tony brother
this sucks though.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Tony Brothers is not good. Let me ask you this
before we move on. If the Knicks finish off this series,
how much does it change how you feel about their
entire outlook as a franchise, their approach to building this.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Core long term?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Just like, if they pull off this series, how does
your overall view about their state of being in this
core change?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
I mean, first of all, it's the biggest thing that
the Knicks have done this century. The Knicks have not
been relevant since the lot Was it the Lockow season
when they went to the finals as an eight seed
with spree noise? Yeah? So, I mean this is monumental.
I don't think that that far away, And I think

(34:45):
the biggest reason that they're not that far away is
because of Mitchell Robinson. I'm not saying it's all the
other players, right, Like, they've got a great starting five
and they've got a great rotation. It's having this level
of talent is the reason the Knicks are great. Brunts
and cat Bridges and a No. The offensive punch that
all of those guys can bring you on a given
night is huge. The defensive contributions that you can get

(35:07):
from then Ananobi and a Bridges on a given night
are massive. The way that Towns can ache at the glass.
But to me, Mitchell Robinson is the guy that makes
this thing go because he changes your look. If you
want to run solo big Mitchell Robinson with skilled wings,
you can do that. If you want to run double big,
lineup and dominate the glass and maybe you're less agile

(35:27):
footed on the perimeter, you've got to look with Towns
and Robinson. I just think Robinson gives them the archetype
that they are sorely missing, that big, nasty sob in
the middle of the court. They can anchor the glass,
they can protect the rim, and they can defend at
a high level. I really think they need a guy
like him, and he has been the biggest difference maker

(35:48):
to me in the outlook because they didn't have him
in the regular season, and that's why I think the
Nick struggled so much. One chemistry. I just think generally
throughout the year against some of these top teams in
those early men may have skewed some of the numbers,
but I also think it was the fact that they
didn't have Mitchell Robinson out there, and I think he's
really made a massive difference to this team. So I

(36:09):
think I was just wrong on the knicks. I think
the knicks of contenders. I think that when you have
the offensive ability between Brunson and Cat on a given night,
Brunson gives you one of the highest offensive floors every
night just because of what he's able to do individually,
and by and large, this has not been like a
great series. I think this is a phenomenal game for Brunson. Yeah,

(36:30):
but efficiency wise, this is kind of been a down
series for him. But he gives you such a high floor.
Bridges can serve you twenty when he's on, and Kat
has a super high ceiling. So it's like, I think, offensively,
their best punch is right there, up there with the
best teams. And I think they have shown an ability
to defend at a high level.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Not that they don't have things that you can exploit.
They're not a perfect defense, but they can play hard
enough and they can dominate the glass enough to where
they mitigate enough of those concerns that it's not that
big of a deal. I think the Knicks are contenders
in the Eastern Conference, and considering the fact that Boston
is going to take a hit, I would hear an
argument for the Knicks is the number one contender in

(37:15):
the East next season. I would hear it, and I
wouldn't be shocked because it's like Cleveland. All these teams
are flawed. Cleveland has their flaws, Indiana has their flaws.
I don't necessarily view the Knicks in a completely different
tier from those teams. I think they're all in the
same tier, and that's the top contending tier in the
Eastern Conference. And I wouldn't push back that hard if

(37:37):
somebody wanted to argue the Knicks is the number one
contender in the East just with the Celtics circumstances next season.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, the Celtics of Tatum is out, they fall out
of that picture. I do think that I would like
both Cleveland and Indiana still more than New York. But
this is a hugely positive outcome for the Knicks no
matter what, and it makes their season a massive success.
I want to see how the Eastern Conference Finals go

(38:04):
for them, presuming that they win this series before I
have big takeaways about this core, but like they're in
a position where they're on the verge of slaying the
dragon and beating the team that I thought it was
going to be almost impossible for them to beat the
team that swept them in the regular season and posted
a one thirty three offensive rating and felt like they

(38:25):
got whatever they wanted against them across four meetings. And
not just that, like Boston is the standard in the
Eastern Conference. They're the reigning champs. They've been in automatic
conference finals appearance in recent years, and if the Knicks
are going to pull that off, like, you can't say
that it wasn't worth it for them to go out
and make the moves that they did for Karl Anthony Towns,
which I was a fan of at the time, the

(38:46):
move that they made for Michel Bridges, which I was
a fan of at the time. It's an overpay in
a vacuum, but I liked what it accomplished. I liked
the fit, I liked the player, and they're reaping the
rewards of that now. I mean, he was just phenomenal
in this game and overall in this series, they've held
Boston to a one fourteen offensive rating. Like, even though
the Celtics melted down in Games one and two, the

(39:08):
Knicks defense was excellent and was a real component in that.
And like, I just didn't think that they could hold
Boston's offense in check like that in a playoff series.
Their fifth and defensive rating in these playoffs. And I
really do think Mitch is a huge difference maker, and
that was a look that coming into the year I
thought could be really effective for them, But then we
just didn't see Mitch for so long. We hardly saw
them try the double big look in the regular season,

(39:29):
and I think I just became lower on like the
possibility that that was really going to be the lineup
that changes things for the Knicks, or that Mitch would
be the presence that changes things. But he really has
meaningfully changed things for them. So maybe I'm not quite
as high on them as you are, but their defense
has really overachieved my expectations. They've been special in the clutch.

(39:51):
Brunson is special in the clutch, and this has looked
a lot more like the team I hoped we'd see
before the year, and then they ended up getting there
in the end in the the playoffs, and it has
been really impressive. If you are going to compare them
to Cleveland or Indiana, I do prefer both of those
teams offensively because they play with more pace. I think
that they get more easy offense for the Knicks, like

(40:13):
in this series against an elite defense. It's absolutely I mean,
just playing with pace is a huge component of that.
Like the best offense is getting out in transition.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
To me, I think not Indiana. I think Indiana is better,
but they might have a better offense than Cleveland. And
the reason I say that is I just think that
their guys are a little bit more versatile and maybe trustworthy.
In Cleveland, Like I don't know, man, Mobley is still
prone to having, you know, an off night, Allen is
still prone ty Jerome has been ass cheeks in this series.

(40:47):
I just wonder if the Knicks have more guys that
I just trust offensive Brunson gives them such a high floor.
Cat is genuinely complimentary to him, Like, I don't know, man,
There's still some redundancies and some things I've been disappointed
with with Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, Darius Garland hasn't been available. He's been himself when
he's out there. Like, I think that the Calves have
the pace factor. I think that they have a significant
shooting advantage. I think they have a significant depth advantage.
I think that they have multiple really elite creators from
the perimeter, which is an advantage that the Knicks don't have.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Cat's the second best offensive player on the team though, right, Like,
if we're looking number one, all right, Mitchell and Brunton
are really close, I'd probably still go Mitchell just because
I think his scoring ceiling is higher. I think Brunton's
scoring floor is OK. Those guys are neck and neck.
To me, Cat's the difference maker, just because I trust
Kat Way more as an offensive player as a number.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
And Darius Garland, I mean, I.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Don't know, dude, Like, I feel like Cat's just a
harder guy to deal with. He's big as fuck, he
can stretch the floor. He's a good mismatch attacker.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
I mean, even as a long time Cat enthusiast and
huge Cat defender, I don't agree. I think that maybe
you're just underrating Garland right now because he's hurt. Like,
I think that Garland is insane. I think the offensive
this year.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Just let me be clear, I'm just talking offensively right now.
Then we go to Mobley versus Bridges, and it's like, I.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Don't know, man, just I think Mobley's a better offensive player.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
You think Mobley's just straight up better than Bridges offensively?

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, I think that he is. I mean, I think
that he has a really unique skill set for a big.
Now in terms of the playoffs, I don't think he's
quite as comfortable doing all the same things he does
in the regular season, whereas Bridges can get to those
same jumpers kind of regardless of matchup. But I do
think that with his finishing, his efficiency as a cutter,
his offensive rebounding value, his passing value, still being able
to space the floor, still being able to run some

(42:38):
inverted pick and roll for you, I do think so.
But like, the big difference to me is just like
the collective shooting, like having a weapon, like a Max Strus,
having a DeAndre Hunter, having a tie Drome, having a
Sam Merrill, having all of those guys. Obviously, Jared Allen
is a great offensive.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Big like a playoff context, though.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I think it is, man, I mean, the Knicks find
a way to overcome it because their dude's a fucked on.
But like the Knicks, offense hasn't been very good in
these playoffs. Man, the Calves offense posted a one thirty
five offensive rating in the first hand and it's against Miami,
so you can tax them for that, but it was
the best offensive rating we've ever seen in a playoff
series after they had a top ten relative offense in
NBA history this regular season. I do think they have

(43:17):
more firepower. I do think for the Knicks it's more
dependent on Brunson grinding things out in the half court,
which he can do and he's great, but it doesn't
come as easy. They don't have some of the same
like crazy volume three point shooting in great efficiency, the
multiple great creators that the Cavs have. So I do
prefer that offense. We can agree to disagree. I think
I think maybe the Caves are just getting underrated because

(43:39):
they got hurt, and I.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Think Cleveland ceiling is higher. But I might argue that
the Knicks offensive floor is higher.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, I'm not really going to agree. I think that
offense just comes easier for the Calves, but the Knicks
are a really good offense. Regardless, we have some super
chats that I do want to get to. This is
from indie merchant, Sam Tatum gone for a season. It's over.
I'm so sorry. Sucks. It's brutal. Sam Gunter, as a
New York fan, have to give Michal so much credit.
He proved at this series, really did, man. I mean,

(44:09):
especially in the big moments. What did mckel give you
in fourth quarters in this series? He was phenomenal, by
the way. Jalen Brunson in fourth quarters in this series
nine points per game on sixty eight percent true shooting.
Jalen Brown in fourth quarters two and a half points
per game on thirty nine percent true shooting. Jason Tatum
five and a half points per game on forty percent
true shooting. I mean, that really is the difference in

(44:29):
the series right there. Yeah. Mckel was really really good
in big moments on both sides of the ball.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Why are they calling me? They're calling dude. I don't
think these people know I'm the ball guy. Logan's a
ball guy, Carson's a guy with hair, y'all. I'm gonna
keep it a buck. I don't think they can tell
us apart because we're white and all white people look
the same.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
We are Caucasian, Liam says, want to bet and wanted
to spread the wealth. However, I'm a C's fan and
I'm truly torn up about Tatum. Seeing him in that
wheelchair crying really hit me. Forever grateful for what he's
done for this team. Yeah, yeah, it's terrible.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
You just need to see this happen to anybody man,
especially such a brutal injury like this. I just I'm
praying for Tatum. I hope he can be back soon
and one hundred percent like that's I just want to
see him make a full recovery man, and this just sucks.
Man in his prime.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Is brutal. I mean, season on the line, you're having
such a signature performance is terrible. Indy Merchant, Sam another generation,
another generous donation, Thank you very much. To be fair,
Jalen has been dealing with the bone bruise, that's true,
but I mean, hasn't he been clear to that for
like a month. Like I'm not going to say that
that's having no impact, but that was obviously an issue
down the stretch of the regular season. I don't know

(45:40):
if he's getting the excuse for that one. We do
have a question about the lottery. We'll get to that later.
Read we see your question, Kaylee says, is Kat Randal
the most mutually beneficial trade of all time? It's been
mutually beneficial, which I did not think it would be.
I thought it was just going to be a Nick's win.
Shout out Julius Randall for overachieving. I don't have the
most mutually beneficial trades of all time list off the

(46:02):
top of my head.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, I'm trying to think, think Luca Trey, Luka Treysa.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
But that's a fake example because the MAVs won because
they got Luca, who's just a lot better than Trey.
Even though trade is really good, it's probably some draft
day thing like that. Oh yeah, Dirk and for Robert
tractor trailer. Yeah, I was thinking maybe Scottie Pippen for
old and Polonies. It's a mutually beneficial trade. I think

(46:29):
that we can leave it at that. I think that
both guys are better fits for their teams. I will
say as we wrap up about this game and this series,
these have been the most difficult playoffs to predict that
I can recall, like it's just been absolute mayhem.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Yeah, I just don't know ball.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Well, I guess I don't know ball either. But last
year was a lot easier man. Last year, I didn't
get any series wrong in the first round. I think
I got two series wrong all playoffs. This year I
got two series wrong in the first round. I'm probably
gonna get two more wrong this round. It's just crazy,
Like we know that this is the age of parody
has been. I like it a lot too, but I
still thought like the top tier would have a little

(47:06):
more margin than they have. Boston very much included in that,
but a couple off games comes back to bite them.
We're in the wild West man crazy time in the NBA.
That series is not done. Hopefully Jason Tatum somehow makes
a miraculous recovery, but let's be real, that's probably not
gonna happen, and then that will be it for the
Boston Celtics. We're gonna take a quick break after some

(47:28):
quick words from DraftKings, we will talk quickly about Warriors, Wolves,
and then we will get to the lottery. Was that
a big gold logan with that?

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Oh? Was that I stifled the fuck out that sneeze? Bro,
You go back.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well done, sneeze during the break. That's how you bro
sneeze during the break. The NBA eighty two game grind
is done, and now the real fun begins. The NBA
Playoffs are here and it's time for all the high stakes,

(48:00):
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Speaker 1 (48:22):
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Speaker 4 (49:39):
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Speaker 2 (50:24):
Lodi, Minnesota Timberruls are now up three to one on
the Golden State Warriors. Not a surprise considering that Steph
Curry has been out since the second quarter of Game one.
What did you take away from Minnesota's win today?

Speaker 1 (50:38):
I mean, I think the last two games have really
been about Anthony Edwards and Julius Randall. Edwards just being
able to go on these torrential runs that just slam
the door on the opposing team. I mean, he has
been excellent in the second half of these last two games,
especially the third quarter tonight, just got it going. I
mean pretty much put this game to bed. And I

(50:58):
want to give a ton of credit to Julius Randall.
We've said this throughout the playoffs. I'm going to continue
apologizing to Julius Randall. I called that the worst trade.
I thought that the Timberwolves could have done. I also
called the go bet one. What do I know, Tim
Connolly take my ballcard man?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Like Tim Connolly does no ball. Tim Connelly can build
himself a basketball team certifiably man.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
So I just want to give a ton of credit
to Julius Randall because I've been so wrong on the guy,
but just credit for how he has changed his game
to fit in this system. That was the biggest question
that I had about Julius Randall coming into this team.
It is simply his ability to fit in. And not
only has he fit in, he is enhancing his teammates.
I mean Julius Randall's playmaking. I think it's been phenomenal.

(51:44):
You really saw it in the second half of this year,
and I was skeptical still that it would fully translate
that he would revert to his old tendencies, that he
would be a ball stopper and a black hole and
shoot this team out of games. But he's really not
done that. He is committed to his role. He has
committed to playing hard, He's committed to taking smart shots

(52:05):
and playing within himself. And that's really I mean, these
last two games, I really think it's been for Minnesota.
About Ant and about Randall, and I just I'm really
surprised that it has happened this quickly. You know, I
thought that maybe Randall would work, but maybe we would
see the fruits of that trade in year two or

(52:26):
year three, after it took you know, a year or two.
Are really figuring this fit out would go, Barren McDaniels
in the spacing, it's happened way quicker, and credit to
the Timberwolves for ironing it out, and big credit to
Julius Randall man. He has been great for the Timberwolves
in these playoffs, and that was a big question mark
coming in.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Absolutely, I think that it comes down to exactly what
you just laid out, Like Aunt and Julius Randall have
just taken over this series. I thought that in Game one,
the Warriors were able to force them into uncharacteristically awful performances.
They really confounded them, and those two guys also just
played very poorly by their standards. But since then they've

(53:06):
been excellent and the Doves just don't have the firepower
to compete. I thought that Randall's first half was special
in this game. I thought that Ant's third quarter was
special in this game. And you said it.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Man.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I have been a huge Julius Randall doubter, and he
has been excellent in these playoffs. He's giving you twenty three,
six and six on better than sixty percent true shooting.
And I just love how he's approaching all of these games.
I mean, so selfless as a passer, consistently making those reads,
finding shooters with kickouts. He's generating one point one to

(53:38):
eight points per post up including passes, just so good
at finding those mismatches and drawing help and creating for
his teammates. He's been efficient creating out of isolations, just
playing really good basketball. And he's shooting the ball pretty well.
I mean, he was shooting the ball phenomenally from the
perimeter in the first half of this game. So I
really like what we're seeing from him night after night now.

(53:58):
It's consistent, and also in these last couple of games,
has really found his rhythm as a score and has
stepped up. So that's the good news for the Timberwolves.
Those guys who should be able to separate and give
them a decisive advantage in this series have done that
over these last few games. Because on the flip side,
the Warriors offense without Steph Curry is just completely and
utterly incompetent coming into today. In these playoffs, the Warriors

(54:23):
had an eighty eight offensive rating without Steph on the floor.
That's compared to a one thirteen offensive rating with Steph
on the floor. In the regular season, the Warriors had
a one to twenty one offensive rating with him. They
had a one zero six offensive rating without him. So
you're talking about massive, massive swings in both the regular
season and the playoffs. And I just hope that if
there's a silver lining for the Warriors in getting their

(54:46):
asses handed to them without their best player on the floor,
who would have entirely changed this entire series, that that
silver lining is that, like everybody can just appreciate how
great Steph Curry is and how his impact is still
so much greater than his numbers. Thirty seven years old,
this guy is still one of the most impactful offensive
players in the history of this game. His shooting threat

(55:07):
creates a vast majority of the offense for this entire team.
And when he's not out there, you see they're a
team of non scoring threats, non creators, non athletes, non shooters,
poor finishers. Like they are bad in every conceivable offensive way,
and somehow when Steph is on the floor, there's still
a really good offense. It just illuminates even more, Like

(55:27):
how remarkable the performances he had in Games one in
Games three against Houston, we're both scoring and creating offense
for others. But when he's not out there, it's just
a really tough watch. And like, unless Jimmy's gonna be
a superhero, the Warriors basically have nothing. Jimmy was not
close to us.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Killing me in this game, man killing me bro just
like passing out of layups again, man like attempts. He
should just be takken Jimmy the Jews. He doesn't, man,
And like, I don't know if the injury is still lingering.
He looked, he looked better, like it didn't look like
it was hindering him as much. But again, man, it's
just this one of those moments where you gotta feel
it and I'll be afraid to take those shots. Jimmy,

(56:04):
I need Batman tonight. And uh yeah, you know we
got it the other night when he dropped thirty three.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
But even then he had to score in the last
day minutes.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Exactly. You got to step up and uh, I do,
I do want to give a shout out to Kamena. Man.
I think Kamena was really effective in this one. Again
just his ability to get down hill and get to
the line. And I have continued to be impressed just
with his ability to blow by bigger defenders. Man. I
really think Kaminga is a mismatch if you put him
against a four or five on the perimeter, even a

(56:32):
guy like nas Reed. I mean like Na's is his
agile is it gets for a six nine and as
fluid as it gets for a six nine guy. Maybe
he's not the quickest or the most agile, but he
still moves his feet really well. For a big man,
Kaminga's just torching him. And like when Kaminga wouldn't go
bear at the rim, I think that's a little bit
different because go bear's part down there. But if you
can get those guys on the perimeter, Kaminga is just

(56:55):
so damn quick and that foot speed is so hard
to deal with. I've been impressed with him in these
two games and his abilion, and also he has a
couple not crazy, but he's got some mid range shot
making in this game too. It was more prevalent last game.
But I've been impressed, man, I've been really impressed with
Kaminga's poise. That's the word i'd use. Man. He doesn't
look like he's fearful of the moment, that the games

(57:17):
don't look too big for him. He looked way more
comfortable than I expected him, and especially to step up
in a situation like this where you've been riding the
pine for so long, it's really hard to just come
up cold off the bench when you haven't been playing,
haven't been into rotation, and to step up and do
this offensively. So I do want to give him some props.
And I want to give some props for to Kevon

(57:40):
Looney too, for I thought he had I thought he
had productive minutes and you know, defense and rebound in
this game, and he's he's grimy, shout out, shout out Looney.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Kevon grab rebound that he does. I don't know how
much of this Jimmy stuff to put on the injury either,
but this was one concerned that I had in the
regular season and one reason that I wasn't as high
on him as you were. I was like, maybe he's
literally just saving it for the playoffs. But we never
saw him turn up that scoring volume in the regular season.

(58:11):
Like this was consistently how he was playing. He was
just trying to fit in and he was just looking
to create opportunities for others and just do his job offensively.
This is the moment where they've needed him to be
a lot more than that, and he has not been
capable of doing that. So that is disappointing. But like
at the end of the day, it's kind of remarkable
that these last two games have ended up being as
close as they were. This one was fake close because

(58:32):
the Timberwls were up twenty with like six minutes left,
and then the Warriors got it close at the very end.
But last game, they really really were in it until
the end, and their defense kept them in it. But
there just comes a point where this offense falls apart
and they don't know what they're doing and they're not
good at anything offensively. They don't generate good shots when
they do, they're not good shot makers. Brandon pajemskis shooting

(58:52):
probably twenty percent from the field in this series. It's rough.
They're starting trace Jackson Davis like their defense gives them
a floor, but even their defense fell apart in the
second half of this game. They were not containing the
ball well, Minnesota was getting downhill pretty easily. They were
penetrating the zone more like that third quarter in the
early fourth quarter was the easiest that it's been for

(59:14):
Minnesota to score against the zone all series, or against
the Warriors defense in totality all series. So it's rough
for them. I really am bummed that we didn't get
to see Steph in this series because if we did,
all four of this series would have been peak drama
and like just incredible basketball, would have been the best
second round ever. But when you don't have stuff out there,

(59:35):
the words just a very tough watch. And they're a
very limited basketball team. Let's talk about the lottery, Logan,
because that might be the biggest story of the day.
I mean, Nick Celtics obviously was crazy, But the Dallas
Mavericks are going to have the opportunity to draft Cooper Flag.
Now will they do it? Logan? We can't say. Nico

(59:55):
Harrison is at the Helm, He's capable of doing anything.
He's liable to anything. They may trade the pick, they
may take Elmer Fudd with the pick. We just don't know.
But presumably they will take Cooper flag because that's what
any sane person would do. How do you like that?
I mean, how do you react to this entire crazy
situation that went down today.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
One hell of a rabbit hunter, that Elmer fudd Man.
He's the number one prospect on my big board coming
into this year. Dude, he's a hell of a shot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Hella doing rabbit season, not so much doing duck season.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
He falls off. But if it's rabbit season number one?
How to fuck did damaz do this? Man? What kind
of black voodoo magic did they pull out their ass?
This seems like the biggest fuck you to like, I'm pissed.
I'm pissed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
It's a family program.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
The NBA just gave us a double bird man, how
did demand you shouldn't be rewarded for trading away Luka Dacic.
That's my fundamental issue with this. If Nico is smart,
they will. In my opinion, if I was Dallas, I
would take Flag and I would immediately start shopping Kyrie
and Ad because at this point I don't even care
about those guys anymore. Man Like, sure, he could come

(01:01:11):
in here and maybe we could compete immediately. I'm trying
to recoup some assets and get some first round picks
for down the line. Man like Flag is my new
window and I'm not really concerned with with anything else. Cooper.
Flag is my number one priority, and we're trying to
build a young, up and coming roster around him. And
I just don't think Kyrie and Ad are really great

(01:01:34):
winning assets for me right now with just the state
of Man, I just don't think either of them are
offensive number ones. I think Ad is still really injury
prone and Kyrie is dealt with some injury stuff. They're
both just older. And it's like, if I got Flag
is a guy that I think can contribute to winning
right now, no doubt. And so I wouldn't blame Dallas
if they try to compete with Ad and this team

(01:01:56):
and with Flag. But I just think it would be
smarter if they try to punt for down the road
and try to get back some assets for Kyrie and
Ad while they still have a decent amount of value
and you can really plan for the future of Flag Man.
That's that's my number one priority.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Would you not be deterred from doing that though by
the fact that they either don't have their own pick
at all or they're gonna be on the wrong end
of a swap for twenty twenty seven, twenty thirty, like
they're not going to get any of their own first
round picks. So no, I'm just a lot to be
young but bad because you're not going to reap the
benefits through the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I don't think they're gonna be bad long. I think
Cooper Flag's gonna be really freaking good soon, like year
two or year three. My threat is I just don't
want to. I understand your argument, and I understand what
you're saying. You should be incentivized to be as competitive
as possible those years. My thing is, I don't think
you're winning a championship with Kyrie A. D. Cooper, So

(01:02:57):
why not go get some young assets.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Or go you don't think that's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Cooper would have to be so good offensively, and I
think he's gonna be really good, but it's just like,
I don't know if he can carry that kind of load.
I don't know what to see it at full strength.
I just think it would make sense to get younger
assets for a future timeline around Flag, even if you
don't have your first I think that makes more sense.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
I just think you're not going to get great value
trying to trade a Kyrie thirty three years old with
an ACL tear. I don't know if you're getting that
great value for Anthony Davis. They managed to get Luka
doncch for him, the Lakers did, but they were doing
business with a madman, like I think if they're in

(01:03:46):
on this cour I don't think that Nico's gonna consider
trading either of those guys. And that would be the
funniest possible thing to do, honestly, to be like, yeah,
we're moving off of Luca at twenty five because we're
going all in on this win now corp these guys
who are thirty two and thirty three. But now we've
got Cooper Flag and now we're gonna just totally reboot

(01:04:06):
and give up on those guys when we've entirely moved
over the last couple of years to build a win
out just at the roster they're gonna try to win
a championship.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
But how is that not you juggling two timelines?

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Like, how it is juggling two timelines? Well, the thing
is Cooper, Cooper Flag is so damn good. He's going
to be an immediate high impact player. I think it'll
be a top fifty player as a rookie. Like Listen Man,
I wanted Coop to go somewhere else where they have
an opportunity to build a better future around. Again, that
would have been heavenly. That would have just been perfect

(01:04:41):
for so many reasons. But like anywhere where they have
better future assets to build around Coop, I would have
preferred that. Being said, what the MAVs have is win
now personnel, and if they try to move off of that,
I don't think it's gonna work out very well for
them because I don't think they would get great returns
on their stars, at least not as much as they

(01:05:02):
think that they're worth internally. And either way, they're not
getting their own picks back, so they're not gonna reap
the benefits of the rebuild. Really like, I just think
they're gonna do everything they can to contend for these
couple of years, and I think if they're gonna be
really good, they can be healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I just don't think you're gonna win a championship with
this team. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, Maybe Cooper Flag
is gonna be that damn good really, really soon, and
you have a shot within this three year window. But
maybe here's a chance. I just you traded Luca for Ad.
That was the big asset that you got back. What
happens if Ad gets hurt again? What happens if Ad

(01:05:41):
falls off a cliff, like, what if he's just not
the same? My thing is, I just I would want
to get something back for Kyrie and Ad while they
have some value. That's the basis of my take, and
I think it makes more sense to get younger guys
that are gonna be on the timeline with Cooper, that
are getting better as he's getting better, and then you're
contending a few years. You know, I get what you're saying, though,

(01:06:04):
I mean it wouldn't make sense because Nico said we
can be competitive, So.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I mean, they literally fuck the next ten years. We
only care about the next three years. This is the
team that did that. They're not going to trade away
the guys who they said are the only thing that
matter because the next three years are the only thing
that matter.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
It's not the worst idea because Cooper is a win
now player. I still fundamentally believe like he is a
building block of the future, A franchise cornerstone one hundred percent.
But I also think in a win now context, I
think he can provide a ton of value with what
he brings defensively and as a connector. And who knows,
maybe that's a better role for him immediately as well

(01:06:44):
in the league. We'll see, But you're probably right. I
don't think Dallas is way more likely to just ride
it out and see what they can build.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Even among the upper echelon number one picks, I think
that Cooper Flag is uniquely well equipped to come in
immediately as the third best player on a team that
is trying to contend like this and be super impactful
and excel in that role. I actually think that he's
a pretty awesome fit for the MAVs if you think
about like what they want a PJ. Washington to do

(01:07:14):
for them in terms of his defensive versatility, his rebounding,
his ability to knock down shots off the catch, like
Flag is going to be able to do all that
stuff significantly better. He's a special defensive talent with a
crazy blend of perimeter and interior defensive value, so much
versatility on that side of the ball. He's a significantly
improved shooter. He's an incredible cutter and play finisher at

(01:07:35):
the rim, So he's gonna do all of that complimentary
stuff so well. And then he's an elite passing talent.
He can do that as a connective playmaker for you,
and he can do it as a non ball creator.
He is a really good off ball player as well.
He's got great feel, like he just does everything. He's
a really great do it all forward. And he's so

(01:07:57):
physically mature, and he's so athletic, and he's so smart
in he plays so hard that like all those things
are going to translate really fast. So obviously he's still
going to get a lot better in the league, and
like he can still grow as a ball handler and
as a creator and as a really high level score.
But immediately this is going to be a really really
high impact basketball player and an archetype that is going

(01:08:19):
to be super valuable for Dallas. I mean, they're a
team that wants to win with their defense. He's going
to make their defense even more absurd. The rim protecting
tandem of him and Anthony Davis. I don't think that
they are going to continue to start a d at
the four, so they move Flag to the three. I
think that they're going to go with Flag at the
four and Ad at the five, and I think that
they'll trade one of the centers. I don't know, maybe

(01:08:42):
a d really refuses to play center. Maybe Nico Harrison
is going to do his thing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
That is a nasty defense if you were to rock
with Ad.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
But does the defense need to be any nastier than
it already will be with Flag and Ad as your
front court.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Nasty defense in the league, man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
But like the thing is, they're already going to be
an elitse defense, an elite rebounding scene exactly exactly. I
think eighty is significantly better offensively at the five and
is an elite defensive anchor at the five, and Cooper
Flag is going to be a great four on both
sides of the ball. Like, I just want to maximize
the shooting and offensive skill that I have because that's

(01:09:22):
where Dallas is going to have to improve and overperform
potentially if they want to be a contender. So I
don't know, man, If Kyrie gets back to form, like,
it's quite unlikely that this team would win a title.
I can't say it's impossible though, because I already thought, okay,
this would be one of the absolute best defenses in basketball.

(01:09:43):
Thought they'd be an okay offense. And now you're adding
a top fifty player I would expect into the mix
immediately there, and by year two maybe a top twenty player.
Like that's legit. I will say I don't think it's
going to be next year because I think that rookie
Flag it's a lot to ask. Kyrie is just going
to be getting back like mid to late next season,

(01:10:05):
So I don't know how much you can expect from me.
It would probably have to be the year after that
because then maybe Kyrie and Ad start to decline. I
don't know. There's just so much uncertainty with all those guys.
I want to be clear, I'm not saying that the
MAVs are going to go and win a title. I'm
just saying I thought they closed the window for that
when they traded Luka Doncic, and now I think a
sliver of that window has opened back up. In the
short term, all the components falling into place, everything going right,

(01:10:28):
it is really unlikely. But I do think that they're
going to be a damn good basketball team with Cooper
Flag all this being said, I do think it sucks
that the MAVs got the first overall pick, especially because,
like I thought it was going to be the Spurs
and I was so excited. I mean, I was just
visualizing a decade of Wemby and Flag together and Logan. Frankly,

(01:10:49):
I almost wet myself. I mean, it was just such
a beautiful image in my head. It's gonna be cool
for these next couple of years to watch Flag with
the MAVs on a team that is trying to win now.
But it does just suck in like a karmic sense,
like the MAVs shouldn't have been rewarded for trading away Luca.
It just flat out sucks, Like it doesn't feel right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
You're not failing upward because you still lost Luca, but
it feels some somewhat.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Like that, like you got to get out of jail free,
card man. I don't know. I mean, they're not out
of jail, they certainly got moved to a much nicer cell.
Like their situation has improved considerably by down John fucking Love, you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Were locked down in a state pen doing twenty three
hours inside. Now you're out at you know now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
You're in a Danish Now you're in a Danish prison
where they want to make sure that you have proofs
to read all day and you've got a nice new
flower vase by your bed every day. That's how they
do it over in Scandinavia.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
You know, they actually have like a higher reform rate
than the United States. Who would have thought, Man, you
actually try to rehabilitate fault, my fault.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
I gotta put the cuffs on you. Now. It's a
great point as per usual, but uh, it just is
so weird that they got out of this in this way.
And I do think it's cool in the short term.
Long term, I do worry about their lack of assets
in capital to build a round flag because as I

(01:12:12):
mentioned twenty twenty seven, they don't have their.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
First you'de away.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
And then they're swapping them the next few years. I'm
not saying that we already went through that. I'm saying
that they're in on this short term window. I hope
that works out for them. I don't know if their
stars are reliable enough. I don't know if the offense
will be great enough, but I do think there'll be
a very very good basketball team and then after that,

(01:12:38):
they're gonna have to figure things out, like they're gonna
have to figure out, Okay, how do we retool around Coop?
And that's where I worry, and that's where I don't
love it for him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Because of Nico Harrison.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Yeah, because of Nico Harrison. I don't know if he'll
still be around at that point. We'll see. If he is,
then that means that things probably went better than expected.
But it's more so just like if they don't have
the capital, like I would have loved for him to
be in a spot where they've already drafted highly a
couple times. If it's like the Wizards and they're gonna
draft highly a couple more times like the Spurs obviously

(01:13:11):
would have been the epitome of that, But just any
team who is more aligned with his timeline that is
not the Dallas Mavericks. Are there any changes that you
want to see them make to their roster to make
this more cohesive? Right now?

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
I think Wing probably becomes expendable, maybe a center as well,
Like you were saying, if I was going to send
a center out, it would be Gafford just because he's older.
I would radther hold on unless you can get a
haul for Lively if someone's really really willing to give
you something big. But Lively's way younger, I think he
fits your timeline now, is a win now, asset and
future with Flag potentially maybe that's your front court duo

(01:13:48):
of the future. But I think a guy like PJ
becomes a little bit more expendable just because I think
Flags are going to come in there and get a
ton of burn. If Pj's okay with taking that bench
roll and doing that, I'd keep him. If he isn't,
I'd be open to moving him. But I'm trying to think,
you know, some more shooting, some more yeah, definitely. I mean,

(01:14:12):
like they've got all the defense in the world they
need right now. I think they just need some more
more shot creation, more more valuable shooting. And you know,
I think that's pretty easily findable in the offseason. It's
a lot harder finding all the other things.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
More than just specifically shooting. I do think that they
need more ball handling. I do think that they need
like another capable creator, especially because this team is going
to have to find a way to gut out at
least half of the next season without Kyrie Irving and
remain in the playoff picture winning basketball games. That's going
to be hard with their current guard situation. So if

(01:14:48):
they did have to move Lively for the right return,
I would do it. I'm not as high on Lively
as some, but I do think that he's a good
young big and it would be nice to keep him.
But that would be my priority. I don't think that
they need to true centers and Anthony Davis now that
they have another great player in their front court. But man,
do I like their group of wings. Dude with nausey,

(01:15:09):
PJ is still really good, Max Christy, Caleb Martin is solid.
Would love for that to be Quentin Grimes, but you know,
Nico Harrison tax Clay like, They've got good depth. They're
going to be a phenomenal defensive team, and I think
that Flag is immediately gonna do his thing real quick.
Do you think the lottery's rigged? Logan? It's been a
big talking point today. I know you like to get
your tinfoil hat on every once in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
What do you think, Yeah, I mean the first one
was rigged, the folded envelope, the cold envelope or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Well, but that was forty years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Yeah, but it takes a lot of things changed, shopping
from rigging it in and the thing that I liked
about that whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Whoa, whoah woah. Hold on, well, I'll tell you a
whole bunch of things. First of all, they've totally changed
the medium. I do think it's harder to rig it
with ping pong balls than it is with you literally
having armen let me I do. But hold on, the
bigger thing is now they have media members who actually
observe this process. Then why can't we watch more publish?

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Can't we watch it? Carson?

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
No, I think that they need to make it publicly available.
I think that it should be a thing that everybody
can watch. I don't disagree. And by the way, I'm
not saying that it's not rigged, but I'm saying using
the argument that oh, it was rigged in nineteen eighty five,
or you think it was rigged in nineteen eighty five
is the same as day It's like, No, it's not.
David Stern was a totally different commissioner than Adam Silver.
David Sern loved all sorts of shenanigans and tricks up

(01:16:27):
his sleeves for publicity. Like, it's a very different, very
different world and very different vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
As long as it goes down behind closed doors and
as long as it's just Mark Tatum pulling out the
team out of the slot revealing it, there's always going
to be dealt. And so I'm not saying but media members.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Do get to see it now. To be fair, I
don't think that they would be privy to the rigging anyways,
you know, if there were some sort of waiting of
the ping pong balls. But they all believe that it's legitimate.
Like I said, I'm not saying that it's not rigged.
I'm also saying it's just there's a lot of eighty
five isn't the same as twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
There's a lot of breadcrumbs though it's not just those two.
I still remember. I can't remember if it was Simmons
or if it was Folds or who it was. The
ken Bay congratulating the Sixers on winning the lottery before
they won it, and then they ended up winning the lottery.
That was a really weird coincidence. Maybe to ken Bay's
old ass just got confused. But it's like that's a

(01:17:28):
weird coincidence. Man, I don't know, Carson. There's a lot
of like the Pelicans winning it when they're like down
in the dumps and they walk into.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Some of that ones. So listen, man, I'm not going
to say that there are not instances where it's like, Okay,
that's mighty convenient. The Knicks getting youwing is probably the
biggest one. And I want to be clear, I am
generally a very anti conspiracy theory, adamantly against sports being rigged.
I think a lot of the evidence that people try
to conduct for that is very bad. If there is

(01:18:00):
there's one thing in sports that I believe is raped,
it is one hundred percent the NBA lottery. Like if
you were gonna say, okay, one thing is rigged in sports,
what is it? There's no question that would be this.
I mean, it's much easier to rig than anything else.
It's not an actual game. Like you can see obviously
the motivations for the league wanting to direct certain players
to certain markets. But the one that you're talking about

(01:18:21):
with the Pelicans and Zion, that to me is an
interesting example of how I do think a lot of
this is driven by confirmation bias, where people are looking
for examples they could confirm their theory, and they ignore
everything else, like obviously there's so many lotteries that just
go unremarkably and has any theory. Let me talk about

(01:18:43):
twenty nineteen. Let me talk about twenty nineteen. They say,
talk about nineteen. The fucking Knicks had the best odds
that year. You think they would have sent them to
New Orleans over the Knicks. They did because they want
a pity party for New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
They did.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
But dude, Okay, this is what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
If Cooper flag the Pelicans would or to go to
the Spur, the Pelicans would have folded.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
They would have moved, They wouldn't have folded, exactly. Well,
they maybe would have moved. Their tenants still sucked with Zion.
It didn't really change anything. Zion also doesn't actually play
basketball games this year. If the Spurs had won the lottery,
are you telling me that there would not be the
exact same amount of people saying this is rigged? Wouldn't
that be a convenientuous out?

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
I think it's way more sus than Dallas wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Really, if they had paired him with Victor wemb Manyama,
you don't think people would have had their tinfoil hats
and said, obviously this is rigged. The NBA wants to
set up the next best duel for the next second.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
The Spurs also had two opportunities, right, well.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
They had the fourteenth best odds with the Hawks pick. Yeah,
but I mean one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
The pick that jumped was a one percent chance of
doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Yeah, it's a lottery. Improbable stuff happens. My point is,
there are like a handful of examples that people point out,
and some of them are reaches. The Zion one isn't
as compelling to me. Now there are some nineteen eighty five,
twenty twelve, the Hornets get Anthony Davis after they got
a new owner, after they finally got somebody to buy
the team. Like, Okay, that one, I definitely see the breadcrumbs.

(01:20:07):
But some of the other ones, I feel like people
are coming to the conclusion beforehand, and then they're looking
for the points after the factor. They're looking for the
examples after the fact, like some of the ones that
people point at, like nineteen ninety seven, the Spurs just
happened to get Tim Duncan. Yeah, man, they were the
worst team in the league, Like that's a totally logical
thing to happen. I don't know why people always think

(01:20:29):
that San Antonio is like the beneficiary of so much rigging.
People were arguing that after Wemby, Like, yeah, they're a
great organization, they're the twenty fourth biggest market in the NBA.
They're not just gonna be funneled great players by some
all seeing eye up above. That's not how this works.
So I don't know. I don't know if it's rigged
or not. But sometimes the examples that people use, I'm like,

(01:20:50):
that's not a good example. This is insane. If there's
ever been a good example since nineteen eighty five, it's
the mass getting the number one overall pick, because it's
a crazy outcome. But my point is also so like
every outcome individually is improbable, even the most likely team
only as a fourteen percent chance of actually getting the pick.
And I think there are a number of situations like
I talk about the Spurs. If the Rockets or the

(01:21:12):
Bulls or the Sixers had won, I bet some people
would have said, oh, it's rigged for the big markets,
it wouldn't be the same level of outcry as the
MAVs of course, because of what happened with them this
year and how crazy it was. But like there's a
number of teams who I think if they had won,
we would have heard the oh it's rigged discourse. So
I don't know how much weight to put into all that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
I do agree with your take, like if they're this
is the most damning piece of evidence against the NBA
Draft Lottery of all of them, you know, since maybe
the frozen envelope or something. But I do think twenty
eleven is a good example. I don't want to just
wipe that away. It's like Cleveland lost Lebron and that
Clippers pick was way late that should not have jumped

(01:21:52):
as much as it did. Like I get it, Carson,
Like you said, man, the odds are what they are,
Like anything is possible, Like you said, it's a lottery,
somebody's got.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
To win it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
But this feels fishy. I don't know, man, If like
you said, dude, if there's if there's an event that
could be rigged, they could be easily rigged. C NBA
Draft Lottery man, more than anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
So absolutely, it's strange.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Man. I'm just mad that Dallas. I'm not even more so,
as like I'm convinced that it is rigged. I'm just more
so upset that Dallas, out of all teams, is the
one that want to agree. I would have been more disappointed, no, lie,
if Philly had done it, though, just because I think
Philly has been arguably as much or more of a
train wreck, and I didn't want Cooper going to to
that spot. But I agree, congratulations Nico.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
Somehow, somehow, some way, you got a way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
You still think. I think that's what I wonder too,
Like they still gonna try to move the team, and
they still gonna try to build this like super casino
or in Vegas. I don't know if that's still in
the works. And now that you got a guy like
Flag like, I wonder if that kind of impedes.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
And I don't know if that was ever actually in works.
I mean, aren't they trying to build a super casino? Yeah,
they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Do it in Texas. I'm pretty sure that's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
What I thought. I thought it was in Dallas. Like,
I don't think that you can move a team out
of Dallas. They moved a team out of Seattle, but
Dallas is what like the seventh eighth biggest market in
the NBA. Like, that's a big ass market. So they're
gonna get a team to Vegas. It's just gonna be
in a few years, and it's gonna be expansion. I mean,
it's going to be twenty twenty six. Isn't that what expansion? No,

(01:23:28):
it's not twenty twenty six. Is the twenty twenty eight
expansion is coming? Vegas is going to be one of
the teams.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Oh Vegas and Seattle.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Yeah, that's what it's gotta be. Okay, let's talk about
the Spurs. I think that they're the only other team
that we really need to dive into because they are
other big winners. They didn't get Flagg, they didn't get
the number one overall pick, but they did get the
number two overall pick, and I think they've got a
lot of decisions to make with what they want to
do with that pick. What do you expect them to do, Logan,

(01:23:56):
Do you think that they sit there and draft presumably
Dylan Harper, who I think is clearly the best prospect.
Do you think that they trade down? Do you think
that they move that pick perhaps for a star.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
That's what i'd do I look at it and there's
guys that I like situationally for San Antonio, no doubt,
but I don't really think they fit this timeline or
this situation. So if they went with a Harper, Harper
is a primary ball handler, I don't really think him
and Fox work together. And so it's like, if they
hadn't done to Dener in Fox trade, I'd be all

(01:24:31):
over Dylan Harper. I'd say take him. He's the star
guard that you're gonna pair with Wemby. But they've got
Fox and they still left Castle, and I think he's
clearly the number two guy. I know a lot of
people want them to draft Ace Bailey. I wouldn't want
Ace Bailey just because I don't think he's a winner
right now. And I think you are a competitive team
that wants to be, you know, contending or something like that.

(01:24:51):
So I think the logical thing is to trade it
for Giannis. I think it's a silver platter man. Giannis
is a great fit next to Wemby. You want to
be a competitive, you know, a competitive team in the West,
a contender. I think that's the trade. It seems like
it's the most obvious, no brainer move. Possible the Bucks
and maybe you have to attach. You're probably gonna have

(01:25:12):
to attach more. You're probably gonna have to give up Castle.
I would assume in this trade you'd have to give
up the number two pick and Castle, or the number
two pick and some more young players or something like that.
But I think that's one hundred percent worth it. And
if I'm the Spurs, that's what I'm doing. Man, I'm
dangling that out there. I'm getting my fishing rod, and
I'm telling the Bucks to come bite, because I think

(01:25:32):
the Bucks aren't in a position to negotiate heavily. I
feel like they're pretty desperate and I don't know what
else you could get back. That's a better deal than
what san Antonio could offer you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
If you're Milwaukee, yeah, that's a really great deal. The
Rockets would be the other team that could put forward
a hell of a package.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
You're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
Number two pick, No, I'm saying for Yannis. Like if
you're looking at the competition, like, I do think that
the Bucks will have their fair share of suitors. Now,
the Spurs can make as good an offer as anybody
outside of Okasee, But I don't think that they're gonna
do that, and Houston can make a really good offer,
but so can the Spurs. I mean I pitched this

(01:26:19):
when the Bucks season ended. They've got all the pieces
there to make a Yanni's trade. The pitch that I
laid out there was Castle sohon the cell twenty twenty
five Hawks first, so that's the fourteenth pick, twenty twenty
seven Hawks first, twenty twenty nine Spurs first, twenty thirty
one Spurs first, so four first, three young players. I
didn't even include the now second overall pick in that package. Realistically,

(01:26:43):
the Bucks are going to push hard as hell for that,
and if you have to add it, that's okay. But
let me take one of those other firsts back. Then
let me get my twenty thirty one first back or whatever,
and you can get a much more valuable first. But
I think that Jannis trade makes a lot of sense
for that. I just think he would actually be a
great fit with Wenby. I think they'd be so dominant defensively,

(01:27:05):
and if they don't trade for y honest, I think
you just have to take Dylan Harper. I think he's
so clearly the second best guy, But I mean he's
another downhill guard you have Fox, you have Castle. You're
not keeping all three of those guys. So if they
take Harper, they should be trying to trade Castle and
everything else for Giannis or you have to include the

(01:27:28):
second pick in that trade. Either way, I just think
they have too many assets and they're not gonna have
three of those same again, Downhill point guards on their roster. Like,
there's just too much opportunity to make a trade here.
Feels like they'd be missing out if they didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
What else do you think Milwaukee tries to do. They
don't have any of their first round picks until twenty
thirty one, so I mean they're also kind of in
a I mean, they're in a tough spot. Again, I
don't think they have the leverage in any of these
negotiations because their future is just really bleaked. Do you
still think that's worth it, even though you would be

(01:28:05):
probably among the worst teams in the league without getting
your own pick.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Do I think it's worth it if I can get
basically the package I laid out. But let's say that
they get the second overall pick.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
And yeah, say maybe you swapped that Hawks pick the fourteenth,
you swapped the number.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
Two I mean, I think that that would be incredible
for the Bucks if I can get Dylan Harper and
I can get three other first, and I can get
I guess Castle too. I don't know if the Spurs
have to trade both of those guys, but I would
one hundred percent trade Castle before Dylan Harper because I
think that Dylan Harper is probably going to be an
all star. Like I think that Castle has all Star potential,

(01:28:44):
but I wouldn't say it's the more likely outcome, Whereas
like Harper is so polished, he is such an elite finisher,
he is such an elite foul drawer. He's got such
a great handle, great size, really good athlete, really crafty,
really great passer, takes good care of the basketball. Like
he's a pretty special guard prospect. Castle, I do have

(01:29:05):
more questions about. I think that he's more flawed. But
if I could get him as my core piece for
the future as Milwaukee with more opportunities at first round picks, yeah,
I think that'd be a really good outcome.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
I'm seeing some discordant chat. Man, do you think that uh,
do you think that Cooper is a DePoy level player?
Could he be a defensive Player of the year kind
of guy I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Do I think as that potential. I think that he
will be all defense absolutely in the league. I mean,
I think that he is like the closest thing to
an AK forty seven that we've seen in a while.
On the defensive end, he is a really high level
perimeter defender. I think that he's got very good matchup
versatility there. But he can also guard the post, and

(01:29:49):
he's an insane shop blocking talent, and he's an elite
defensive rebounder, and his instincts are phenomenal and he's got
great length. So yeah, it's gonna be hard to win
defensive Player of the Year awards for the next decade
when you got Wenby and chat Mowley running around. Shout
out to the three Goats. But if anybody's gonna sneak
in there, it's gonna be like a Amen, or it's
gonna be a Cooper flag. He is definitely that level
of a defensive talent. I think he's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Also, we got to get to the boy reads super coo, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
Real quick read. Not happy with the Jazz falling to five.
Front office has been very clear about moving up if
this happened would you trade Flag for eight or more firsts?

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Yeah, a first round picks? I'm down, bro, eight first Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
I think he's saying, from like Utah's perspective, would that
be worth Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
I was thinking better from another side, if you gave
up eight first I can't give It's like that's like
a Ricky Williams kind of trade man on ten. Like
I'm I feel like you could almost give me. I
would almost be willing to part with any player for
eight first round picks. I mean that's just ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
Yeah, that's too much. That's too much in terms of
what Utah can do. I mean, I just don't think
they're getting their hands on Flag. I think it's gonna
be really hard for anybody to do that. Now. Maybe
Nico Harrison, the SICCO says, we don't want a young
buck like Cooper Flag. We want Giannis, we want Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
I was thinking of a Jazz but yeah, I would
definitely be trying to get a bigger fish than that
with the number one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Yeah. I just don't think that Dallas will move off
of him for future assets. I think that they have
shown a uniquely low evaluation of future assets in terms
of how they want to build as a franchise. So
I'm not really sure what the jazz Is path to
trading up would be. I'm trying to think about if
anybody's going to be willing to trade down out of

(01:31:33):
those top few picks. Maybe it's the Spurs. Maybe they're
not looking to make that blockbuster deal and they're like,
we don't want to have Harper and Castle. Again, I
would prioritize Harper Overcastle. But maybe they're like, Okay, we
want to take like VJ. We want to take a
wing who we think fits us more seamlessly, and so

(01:31:54):
we'll move down a couple spots. Maybe that's an opportunity.
Maybe Philly is like, okay, what can you get us
in terms of a win? Now, guy to Utah. But
I don't know, you're only moving up two spots at
that point. I don't know how much of a real
groundbreaking difference maker that is. I do feel like the
second pick is clearly a level above every pick below

(01:32:17):
in terms of value, because I think that like this
class is flag up here right, almost a top five
prospect of this century, like teetering on that top five border.
Dylan Harper, Like I think a future All Star probably
in this league, and then everybody else. It's a step
down from that point forward.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
Yeah, all right, appreciate you guys tuning in. What a
crazy day this was in the National Basketball Association on
and off the court. Hoping for another crazy day tomorrow.
We're going to be back. We've got Calves Pacers, and
we've got thunder Nuggets. I love those two series. I
hope that the Calves are healthy. I hope they can
at least give one last stand. Man. I think if

(01:32:59):
they are healthy, they win game That's my take. But
I don't know this Mitchell thing. It's concerning and he's
gonna be a game time decision. I bet he plays though.
He's a warrior, and I need the cast to show
a lot more fight than they did in Game four
because that was bad. I will say, though, I do
you think that they're a tier above the Knicks as
an offense? You know where the Knicks rank and offensive
rating in these playoffs logan out of sixteen teams, no eleventh.

(01:33:21):
You know where the Cavs and Pacers rank first and second?

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
Who did they play in the first round?

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
Bro, you're gonna say that the Pistons are a world beater.
That's a defense that oh my god, it makes you
shaking your booth. It's a pretty good defense.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
The Pistons are shaping up to have played the Knicks
better than the Celtics. Obviously, that ignores a lot of context.
But that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
If only Tatum could have been healthy, I would have
really liked to see him try to lead a heroic
three to one comeback. Could have been a real moment
for his legacy. Maybe he still could be, Maybe still
could be. I want to write the man off, but
you know, I know what I saw Logan, and it
was unspeakable and it was terrible, and I don't want
to think about it or talk about it. Thank you
to all you guys for joining us. As always, you
guys are the best. Appreciate all your generous donations today.

(01:34:12):
Appreciate you all joining us for this yap fest. Celtics fans,
I'm sorry for your emotional damage. Jazz fans, Wizards fans,
every fan base who fell in the lottery, Hornets fans,
thirty four years it will be in twenty twenty six
since your last time picking first overall or no, Yeah,

(01:34:34):
thirty four years right now, nineteen ninety one, Larry Johnson,
feel for you guys. Tough stuff out here. Lottery rigged
not rigged? Who knows either way? Nobody wanted to see
that pick go to the Mass except for Mass fans.
Congratulations to Mass fans. On that note, we are done.
If you want more of our content, it's all across
our YouTube channel, all of our post game live reactions,

(01:34:55):
and all of our video essays and video breakdowns that
we do. You can also listen to all of our
full episodes across all audio platforms, and you can check
us out across social TikTok and Instagram at nerd Sesh,
Twitter at nerd Underscore Sesh to see clips from the show,
graphics from the show, and all of our short form
trivia content. You can also join our discord if you
want to chat with the gang, be part of our
community there, and with that as always, appreciate you guys.

(01:35:17):
I've been Carson Brabber, i have been Logan Camden, and
this was nerd Sash

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Nerd Sesh - Game 4 + NBA Lottery Reactions: Knicks BEST Celtics, Flagg to Mavericks

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nerd Sesh - Game 4 + NBA Lottery Reactions: Knicks BEST Celtics, Flagg to Mavericks