Nerd Sesh - Thunder-Nuggets Game 7 Reaction: OKC CRUSH Denver to ADVANCE to WCF

The nerds break down an epic Game 7 clash as Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Chet Holmgren and the Oklahoma City Thunder crushed Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray and the Denver Nuggets to advance to the Western Conference Finals.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Don't want.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
What Charles Darwin.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into
nerd Sash As always, I'm Carson Breber. Alongside me is
Logan Camden and you already know the drill. We've got
a Game seven to talk about today and Logan, as
has been the case in a few Game sevens as
of late, this one is a blowout. There is no
dramatic finish. It is the Oklahoma City thunder Show. They

(00:45):
demolish the Denver Nuggets and advance to the Western Conference
Finals as they continue their effort to become the youngest
NBA champion in almost fifty years. How did they get
it done in this one? And what do you take
away from this performance from OKC Logan?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
It was the defense stepping up.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I mean that's the biggest thing about this game, more
than anything else. You know, I could be critical of Denver.
I do think they were careless and reckless with the ball,
Like I think there are a lot of really ugly
and just uncoordinated turnovers. But you got to give the
OKAC defense a ton of credit for just how physical
they were. The ball pressure through at this game, the

(01:23):
ability to limit just easy passes inside to Jokic, where
I think you got to give a shout out to
a guy like Alex Caruso, who was just phenomenal in
this game. But it's just a collective defense and then
their ability really easily to turn that defense into offense.
And I saw a lot of people early on in
this game talking about, oh, you know, Oklahoma City is
really lucky to be only down this in this game, and.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I didn't feel that way at all.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Like I thought that the Nuggets were kind of lucky
that Oklahoma City was missing so many open threes, you know,
because they were giving credit to the Denver zone early
in this game, and I thought, yeah, you know, Denver
doing a pretty good job. But you know, I more
so thought okay See was just missing open shots that
they should have been hitting. And at a point in

(02:08):
this game in the second quarter, Oklahoma City.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Just flips this switch.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Defensively where they're applying immense ball pressure, they are getting
out on fast breaks and getting easy points and they
just didn't let up.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
It was like.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
It was like this pressure was just building in this pipe,
and eventually Oklahoma City just busted through with their defense
and Denver just couldn't hang. I mean, that was the
difference to me. I thought Sga played a really good
game as well, and I think he has steadily improved
throughout this season. I thought he was the best player
in this series end to end, more than Yokic, even

(02:43):
though Jokic had some really great performances. I thought Jokic
had the higher peak, but I thought Sga was more
consistent down the stretch. I thought Jokic played below his
best in the world standard in this series. Now, granted
it is in some pretty extreme circumstances with the defense
that Oklahom the city was throwing at them, but I
thought Sga overall was the best player in this series.

(03:04):
And it's a big backup excuse me, it's a big
bounce back game for Jadub two. I got to give
him credit.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Coming into this game.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Jadub was giving you seventeen points per game on forty
five percent true shooting. That's down five points in twelve
percent from the regular season, and the numbers were kind
of staggering. In this game where he had struggled Carson,
he was down twenty five percent in the restricted area
in this series. In the regular season, he was down
nineteen percent in the mid range from the regular season

(03:32):
in this series, and he was down fifteen percent from
behind the arc in this series from the regular season.
But he did a really good job of and I
want to give him credit in this series too. The
scoring was off, but I thought you got really high
impact from Jadub in other areas, but in this game,
you kind of get everything, and a lot of it
was in transition where I thought he did a really

(03:53):
good job of just getting out on the break and
getting easy points. I mean, I think he scored seventeen
points in the second quarter, and so shout out to
him for bouncing back. Shout out to the OKC supporting
cast finally finding their stroke in this one. I thought
a lot of the areas where they struggled bounced back
in a big way. And I feel a little foolish, Carson.
I mean, the one thing that I had the most confidence,

(04:14):
I feel like coming into this series was this defense.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
And I bet against them in this game seven.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Net I thought was the biggest component to this dominant
Oklahoma City win.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
It absolutely was the defense. They showed up at such
a special level in this game and they're capable of
doing that because this is one of the greatest defenses
that we've ever seen. I've been saying for a while
I think it's the best defense since the four Pistons,
and they have the resume to support that. Man. This
was a top ten relative defense by defensive rating in
modern league history this regular season, and that was without

(04:48):
their best defender, Chet Holmgren, for most of the year.
But I've consistently said this is the best group of
perimeter defenders in terms of their death that I have
ever seen. They have four flat out all defense, no
ifs ands or Butts caliber guards and wings with Alex Caruso,
who's the best defensive guard on the planet, lou Dort,
Cason Wallace, Jalen Williams, and then they also have one

(05:10):
of the best pure rim protectors of this century in
Chet Holmgren. The ability that they have to pressure the ball,
to fly around and force teams into mistakes on the perimeter,
to rotate with such overwhelming speed, and that you have
this insane back line defense in rim protection from an
individual like Chet and from their collective speed and length
and athleticism on the interior, it just makes them one

(05:32):
of the greatest defenses that we've ever seen. They averaged
the most steals per game this season that we had
seen by any defense since the nineties, and they also
held opposing offenses to the worst efficiency inside of ten
feet by far. So it's the fastest defense I've ever seen.
It's the best defense I've ever seen at forcing opponent mistakes,

(05:52):
and they have this top tier rim protection and their
versatility is just unbelievable as well. We have seen them
throw so many different looks at Yokics. We know they
can go double big and be dominant. They can go
Chet at the five and be dominant. They can go
iHeart the five without Chet and be dominant. But for
a sizeable stretch of this game, in the second quarter,
when both iHeart and Chat have two fouls, they went

(06:14):
up against, in my opinion, the best offensive player ever
who was a two hundred and eighty pounds center with
a small ball lineup with Alex Caruso as his primary defender,
and they gave him a lot of trouble with that look.
And you can criticize Denver's ability to throw entry passes
where I thought they made a lot of poor passes,
and they were a little sloppy, but Okse just did

(06:36):
such a great job of challenging every pass, pressuring the ball,
challenging every catch, blindsiding Jokic off the catch, and they
just generated so many steals in this game. They're averaging
the most steals per game in these playoffs now of
any team to play at least ten games in the
postseason since the nineteen seventies. Man, it is just chaos

(06:57):
at a level that we have not seen in decades.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Y is pace related? Is that interrelated with pace?

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Like the reason that it's been that long?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Absolutely well. Seventies pace was high, and also teams were
just worse at taking care of the basketball. I talked
about this in the video I did where I watched
a game from every decade but the seventy five finals.
It was turnover central. So to do it in this era,
when teams are actually better at limiting turnovers than ever before,
makes that number even more impressive and makes me comfortable

(07:27):
saying in terms of their ability to force turnovers considering competition,
they're the best that we've seen. So they gave Jokic
fits in this series in a way I have never
seen before. They did it in so many different ways,
but in this game, a lot of it started with
Alex Caruso, who's just a one of a kind defender,
and I do think in a lot of ways is

(07:48):
the hero of this game. Oksee, obviously dominated, they win
by more than thirty, so there were a lot of
dudes who stepped up and played at a really high level.
But I did say, Logan, I tweeted this out. I
said that when our friend's over at thunder Chets asked
for our pregame predictions, I said, I think we're going
to get a Cruso masterclass. He is just the ultimate
big game championship kind of player, and he showed up

(08:11):
in such a big way. His ability to front Jokic,
harass him, pressure him, and then blow things up all
over the floor and just wreak havoc is so special.
There's no other guard who does it at that level
in the NBA today. I do think that he is
not just the best guard defender alive, he is having
one of the best individual postseasons I can think of,
And so he was empowering them to pull away on

(08:34):
the defensive end, and that's where they really did separate themselves.
In this game with their ability to turn defense into offense,
get out in transition, and dominate in the paint. A
lot of that did come out in the full court,
but if you just look at the few categories slogan
where Okac was on a totally different level. They go
plus thirteen in the turnover margin. They go plus thirty

(08:56):
in terms of points off of turnovers. I can't think
of a time I've seen a number that big. They
go double denver in fast break points, and they have
twenty two more points in the paint. So, as you
said early in this game, it felt like, man, once
you're midway through the second quarter, like Oka see probably
should have built a more sizeable lead than they had.

(09:17):
And then they really pull away at the end of
the second quarter with that eighteen to five run to
close out the half. A lot of that is forcing
three turnovers in the last two minutes. They're just one
of a kind in their ability to score off of
those turnovers. We talked about it time and again. That's
what sets them apart even from other great defenses, that
ability to turn defense into offense. But then the offense

(09:38):
also started going in its own right in that stretch
jadeb steps into big three versus the zone and hits it.
Shaye nails a pull up three, and all of a sudden,
it was just like the floodgates open. Because they had
been doing a lot right. They had been dominating in
the paint and doing a great job of cutting versus
the zone. They'd been defending well, they'd been really active
on the offensive glass. They actually had more offensive rebound

(10:00):
than Denver in the first half. They had just been
missing lots of open threes, which was disappointing from okay see,
but not shocking, just because we've seen inconsistencies there from
them this series, and there are just so many nerves
in a moment like this for a young team. How
do you mitigate nerves? You bludgeon the opposing team. You
set the tone with your physicality and your activity on

(10:20):
the defensive end, and you get yourself easy offense off
of it around the rim where it doesn't matter if
you're nervous. You're just getting great, very high percentage shots.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Mm hm.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
They just hit Denver with a punch that they couldn't handle,
and honestly, I don't think anybody in the league could
handle and they really pulled away decisively. It does start
with the defense. I do want to rain praise upon
the Stars, but it's one of the best defenses we've
ever seen Logan and this is their masterpiece, man.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
And I thought Denver did a really good job of
that in the first quarter. That's always so surprising about
this game because I thought Denver zone was really stifling.
I thought Denver did a good job of being the
aggressive team getting downhill, getting to the free throw line,
and I thought that was going to be a big difference.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
And then immediately the tide really swung.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
When Jokic came off the floor at the top of
the second quarter. I mean, I really felt like the
momentum just flipped on its head, like Denver was rolling.
They had something good going. And then I didn't like
that decision from Adlelman to not have Murray or Jokic
out there at the beginning of the second quarter, because
I just thought, in a moment like this, and I
get it, you want both of these guys to get
a little bit of a rest before they.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Locked back in.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
In a minute, in two seconds of game time, with
no Murray and Jokic, they rattle off six six points
straight to take the lead, and then Jada misses a
free throw, Strawthorp immediately gives the ball away on a
bad turnover to Russell Westbrook, and Jadab gets another layup.
So that's an eight to zero run without Jokic, where

(11:46):
I just felt like you needed a stabilizer. And obviously
that's not like the most important I thought the most important.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Stretch of this game was at the end of the second.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Quarter, But that felt like a really big part of
the game where Denver had control in a meeting, it
just flipped on its head.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
You look at a thirty two point game and the
lead was even bigger than that at some points, and
you think you can't really focus on a stretch like
that too much. But at the same time, Logan, I agree.
I think that that was one of the most pivotal
parts of this game. Oka. See, they just were so
comfortable and in rhythm late in that second quarter and
in that third quarter, maybe they were gonna open this
game up. No matter what, They're just the better team.

(12:24):
They have been the better team throughout this years. They've
always had the more margin, they've always had the more talent.
But like you said, that Okayse offense was looking tight,
and when you take both Murray and Yolkic off the floor,
you give them an incredible opportunity to find a rhythm
to start turning defense and offense. Because Julian Strath just
is not ready to replicate what he did in Game six, obviously,
and he looks overwhelmed. I thought that that was an

(12:47):
important stretch to build Okac's confidence, and I also thought
it was just a disastrous decision from Adaman. I truly
don't know what he's thinking. Like the groups that Denver
trotted out with both Murray and Yolkic off this regular
season had a negative twenty four net rating. Because we
talk about the Nuggets are amazing in the Yokch minutes.
They're off in the non Yolkic minutes, and that is true,

(13:08):
but in the Murray on Yokich off minutes, they're just
like regular below average. They're not a disaster. It's when
they play with both of them off the floor that
they are a completely incompetent basketball team. They had only
played four minutes in the entire postseason with those guys
off the floor. I think it was one stretch against
the Clippers, and when he did it, then I was like,

(13:30):
what are you doing? I didn't think we'd see a
single minute of this in the playoffs. To do it
in game seven when you're thinking both of our stars
are going to play forty four to forty five minutes anyways,
I just couldn't wrap my head around that decision. So, no,
it's not the difference in this game. But it gave
Okasee an opportunity to get some momentum and then from
there they were just a freight train that couldn't be
slowed down.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
The word I would use is it gave them an edge.
Like I just think that at that point, Denver had.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Control of the game.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
They were working late into the shot clock, their defense
was working on the other end, and they were kind
of forcing Okac to shoot early shot clock threes. They
were getting out on the break a little bit. I
just thought their process was really good. And I get
that you need to give Yokic a rest. I get
that you want Murray and them to be fresh, but
like you said, confidence, I think it gave them the

(14:17):
all right.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
We'll finally we're going a little bit of a run.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
And after that they just didn't look back like like
you said the floodgates opened up and they just kept
coming and then it was just like an avalanche where
you just feel like Denver doesn't have control of this
game and they are scrambling, clawing, trying to get back in.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
And it's over.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
They are, you know, effectively in that quicksand where they
just keep getting dragged further and further down and they
can't get back into it. And I do want to
give okay See more credit to because I thought their
game plan was really really excellent how they executed it
against Nicola Yokish. And what I mean by that is
one the having Caruso on ball one props to him

(14:56):
and how disruptive he was individually on Yokic. You can't
stress that enough. He's not letting them get those immediate
entry passes into them. And then even if they are
getting those entry passes on the second pass, where I
thought Christian Brown did a really good job of noticing
opportunities where they did have that mismatch and Yokic had
position on the post. When they do get the ball

(15:17):
into Yokic on the post, Oklahoma City did a really
good job of collapsing and having three guys in there
just you know, punching at the ball and making it hard.
And even if they're sending him to the line, they're
not letting Jokic get those easy layups or easy opportunities
without having to deal with all that physical contact under
the rim. And the reason I think that is so

(15:38):
important is because Oklahoma City wasn't afraid of the supporting pieces.
The reason that Oklahoma City is able to implement that
strategy and not get burnt for it is because they
don't fear the shooting around Denver, You're okay. Even though
Christian Brown did a really good job cutting and making threes,
you're not afraid of him. The level that MPJ and
Murray have been at, you're not afraid of them. The

(15:59):
level that Aaron Gordon is at with his hamstring injury,
and Russell Westbrook. It's like the guys around Jokic just
couldn't make them pay for that overly aggressive tactic. And
that's really the correct strategy to implement. And I thought
they did a phenomenal job all game. Because Gruso's gonna
get the praise and I think rightfully so, and Jade's
gonna get a lot of credit. But specifically that team effort.

(16:22):
If it's doored, if it's Gruso, if it's Hartenstein, those
back line guys I thought did a really phenomenal job
of collapsing and selling out on Jokic, and I just
thought their strategy and their plan was executed to perfection
in this one.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Absolutely all series long. I mean, regardless of who Jokic's
primary defender was, they were almost never gonna let him
get a one on one look, because when he did
have those opportunities, he was very successful. They don't have
anybody who can actually guard him one on one, but
they have dudes who can make it really difficult for
him to complete his catch. They have dudes who can
really pester him, and then they're gonna double the shit

(16:57):
out of him. I mean, we saw them bring so
many baseline doubles throughout this series. We saw them so
many times over and over again, bring that extreme physicality
and involve a second defender with active hands and load
up on Jokic so aggressively, and as you said, the
guys around him just were not able to punish them
for that strategy consistently enough, so they did really frustrate
Jokic the last couple games Games five and six, I

(17:20):
thought Jokic was really excellent, but this one was closer
to what we saw from him in games two through four.
I didn't think that Jokic was bad in this game, honestly,
I thought it was more so a failure of the
guys around him. But Jokic was not able to overcome
this defense and deliver the sort of performance that Denver
would have needed if they wanted any chance to win
this one. And on the flip side, shake Gilgess Alexander

(17:42):
was excellent and in the last three games of this series,
I was just wildly impressed by how in control of
every game he was, how comfortable he was against a
defense that earlier in the series gave him some trouble
with the zone, and they were able to force him
into some questionable shots, and he wasn't consistently making the
right decisions and anticipating the coverages and moving off the

(18:05):
ball quickly to create for teammates. Last three games, I mean,
he just did everything right. He gives you thirty three
points and six assists per game on seventy one percent
true shooting, extremely efficient as a scorer, obviously effortlessly getting
to the mid range in this game, and those shots
truly do feel like layups for him. Man, he was
so so nails from those elbows twelve to fifteen footers

(18:28):
from the base line in the second half of this series.
And then he also found the step back three and
that was a weapon that he got going that also
was offer him earlier in this playoff run. The scoring
numbers are dazzling and outstanding, but also I thought that
his playmaking was better than the stats would show, like
he created great shot after great shot for his teammates

(18:51):
in the last three games, and really especially in this one,
even though he doesn't have the big assist numbers, like
he's getting into the teeth of the defense and he's
kicking out and even if OKC didn't make every one
of them, he's getting you so many good looks from three.
He did a much better job spotting cutters as the
series went along. I just thought he was outstanding in
these last three games. It is so encouraging because I

(19:13):
saw a lot of discourse about oh, SGA is a
playoff drop or SGA's not holding up in the same way,
And then I thought this was clearly the best postseason
stretch of his young career. This is the SGI I
expected from the regular season. One of the best guards
we've ever seen, a guy who I have called a
top three guard peak in this century. That's what you
got out of him in games five through seven of

(19:34):
this series, and it's exactly what Okac needed. It's an
interesting point you said about him being the best player
in the series.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
The reason that I say that is, I mean, I
just think we got four games in this series from
Jokic where I thought he was below his best in
the world standard. But I would say we had three
bad games by Jokic standards. You know, Game one I
thought was his down game, But I mean he still
gives you a forty piece, so I'm not as much
concerned about that. You know, he has more turnovers than

(20:01):
assists in that one. It wasn't a right a great
Yokic game, but he does give you forty.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
But I thought it was a pretty awesome game. I mean,
eighteen points in the fourth quarter, forty one, twenty two
and six.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Look, I'm not as I'm a great game semantics.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
I'm not as worried I already said, I'm not as
worried about that one as much as the other ones
that I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Two through four were.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Bad Yokic games, and I thought, specifically in game four
or a Game five, I thought they had to step
up a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
The supporting cast. Excuse me.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I thought Game five had to step up more because
I thought Yokic was good in that one, but Game
four I thought they had I thought Jokic had to
be better. He goes seven to twenty two from the
field two of eight from deep. Game three, he goes
eight turnovers to ten from Deep, eight to twenty five
from the field. In Game two six turnovers six to
sixteen from the field. The supporting cast, I thought, in
from Denver's perspective in Game three, stepped up and did

(20:57):
their job, but it just wasn't fully all there.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I do want to give credit to Aaron Gordon.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I thought Aaron Gordon was an absolute superhero in these playoffs.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Can we have this conversation, I want to talk about
who is the best player? Well, I thought, I think
it's very interesting. Do you think it's clear SGA.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
I think in the last four games, I thought SGA
was better, and I thought that was more important.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
So let's break it down, I think that I agree.
I think that SGA was by a slight margin, the
best player in this series. He gives you four I
don't awesome games.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Can I be clear about something though I don't necessarily know,
I still wouldn't be comfortable calling SGA the best player
in the world. I still think Nikola Jokic is the
best player in the world, and I don't necessarily think
that the results reflect that SGA is better, but I
do think he was better in this series.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
The reason that I say that is.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Again, Oklahoma City had the right strategy and game plan
selling out on Nikola Jokic, and I think that's why
he struggled, and we have to give them credit and
their defense credit for what they did did. But it's
specifically that coverage and all the attention that he got
in the Denver supporting cast and their failure to capitalize
off that I think is a huge component. Like I

(22:11):
just think most defenses aren't gonna be able to do
this to Jokic, Oklahoma Cities can, and so like if
we're starting from scratch, I still think I would take Jokic,
but I do have to give credit to SGA for
also adapting through at this series, like he got better
as the series went along. You know, after three games
I was disappointed, but the last four I thought were phenomenal.

(22:33):
And so that's just the distinction that I still want
to make. I still think Jokic is top dog to me,
but Sga, I do think was the best player in
this series.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
I agree with all of that. I just think that
we've gotten such a consistency from Jokic over the last
five years, honestly, of unparalleled offensive brilliance and dominance in
the regular season and postseason. And this year was the
best that he's been. This was not his best postseason,
but I still think that he definitely has that title
as best in the world. His offensive floor is so

(23:02):
obscenely high, our expectations for him are so obscenely high.
So I'm not starting that conversation. I don't think Sga
has played at a level where he's earned that because
in the Memphis series he was really inconsistent. Early in
this series, he was inconsistent, Like he hasn't had that
sort of signature, dominant playoff series end to end. I
think you'd need multiple of those for me to really
start a serious conversation with him up against Yokic, just

(23:24):
because Jokic's resume is so outstanding. We're just talking about
this series, and yeah, Jokic has a way more difficult
matchup in this series because even though I thought Denver
came with a good scheme, I thought they defended much
better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season,
much better. Yokic is going up against one of the
greatest defenses of all time, and they are overwhelmingly concerned
with what do we do with him, how do we

(23:46):
give him hell? And if anybody else beats us, so
be it. You have to understand all that context. But
when we're just talking about this series, I do think
that I would give Shay a slight edge. Here are
the bottom line numbers for Shay thirty points, six and
a half boards, six and a half assists per game
on sixty three percent through shooting, very impressive efficiency. For Yokich,
it's twenty eight, fourteen and six on fifty nine percent

(24:09):
through shooting. Of course, he does have the four and
a half turnovers per game, which is a very high number.
Sga was incredible taking care of the basketball, just two
turnovers per game, so although I definitely thought that he
had the easier task offensively, he was much more efficient
scored with a little bit more volume. The playmaking impact
for Yokic wasn't quite the same as we normally expect,

(24:31):
although I also think if his teammates had shot better,
he definitely could have averaged a seven assists a game
in this series instead of six. But if we break
it down game by game, like you were saying, SGA
gives you four great games in this one, Game six
and seven were outstanding end to end from him. Game five,

(24:51):
the fourth quarter was just so great that I think
you grade that as an overall great game. And then
Game two it was obviously total blowout, but I mean,
he was perfect in that game. In Game one, he
was pretty good, but I would have liked to see
him be a little better as a decision maker in
that one. Now, he really was off in both games
three and four like Jokic, and Yokic was also off

(25:12):
in game two, and Yokic also didn't have his best tonight,
So I think overall, Jokic did have the highest highs
like SGA, did not do anything that compares to what
Yokic did. In Game five, that was one of the
best individual performances in a loss that you'll see, and
what Yokic did in the fourth quarter of Game one
was really really incredible as well. But overall, I think

(25:33):
that SGA gave you a little bit more consistency in
this series.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
And I think this is such a huge moment for
this Thunder team and for SGA two, just in terms
of the narrative that has been building about this team
and what people think, Like, I think there would have
been a lot of negative conversations coming out about the
Thunder if they had lost this game, and I think
it's really one I'm just excited for the fan base
because I think the Thunder deserved this with how long

(25:58):
they were down in the depths rebuilding, you know, post
Westbrook all that, and they did a phenomenal job rebuilding.
So I'm just excited for this young team and just
what a big moment this. I mean, this is a
huge moment for this young guy, like to go to
the Western Conference finals, but specifically the way they won
this game. They dominated the best player in the world
with an elite defense in Carson. You mentioned this, you know,

(26:21):
during this series, but like young teams aren't supposed to
win big moments like this. They're not supposed to win
convincingly like this, Like this is such a dominant win
for such a young team on a big stage, and
I just think that hopefully some of the doubters and
some of the.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Skeptics can take this medicine.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Man, I did pick against them, but I'm a static
for them, and this is a this is a big
response for them, you know, just in terms of to
the doubters again, man, like, they didn't crumble. This young
team answered the call. J doub was much much better
in this game. The shooting was way better in this game.
My man, Cason Wallace had big moments in this game, had.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Big moments you had this series.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Man, I thought Kyson was really really good off the
bench for this group, and they just answered the call. Man,
this is a huge win for this young group and
this young team, and yep, it's just massive. I'm really
excited for OKAC. They're just to be so I would
say ahead of schedule, but that doesn't even seem right.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
It seems like this team is right on time.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yep, they're on schedule. The expectations are just that insanely high.
Because they won sixty eight games, and what I've consistently said,
this is a team that is the best position to
start a dynasty and to win a title this young
since the twenty fifteen Warriors. I truly think that their
talent is that special, their foundation is that special, and
we can talk about this being the era of parody

(27:45):
and no team repeating, in fact, no champion in the
twenty twenties going past the second round that as season
after they win the title, and I think that there
is very good reason to think that it is more
difficult to build dynasties and replicate championships than ever before.
Depth is so important in today's NBA, and yet it's
so hard to maintain with the new CBA. But this

(28:07):
is a core that has the MVP of the league
at twenty six years old now in Shay. They have
in my opinion, a future top ten, maybe future top
five player in chet Holngren. They have a guy who
is already an All Star in Jalen Williams, who I
do think is only going to continue to progress. And
then they also have so many great young role players

(28:30):
who are on really good contracts like Isaiah Joe and
Aaron Wiggins, their ability to extend those guys. They have
Isaiah Hartenstein under control, They have Alex Caruso under control
for some time. Those guys are just the ultimate winning players,
and they have so many assets to maneuver and continue
to add talent. If anybody's going to dominate the league
for the next half decade or maybe even longer, it's

(28:51):
going to be the Oklahoma City Thunder. And I feel
more confident saying that about them than any other team
that we've seen since the Peak Warriors. This is the
biggest win that we've seen from them, obviously in this
iteration of the Thunder. It's so significant to get it
done in a Game seven against the best player in
the world, against a team that has won the title before,
and it really did take all hands on deck. Well,

(29:12):
they won the game by thirty two, so maybe not
everybody needed a ball out, but everybody did ball out.
I've already talked about Shay Jadub was excellent in this game,
and his last three performances before this one, well were inexcusable.
I don't know, but you don't know about excellent.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I thought, I thought excellent good.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
I mean, Jadubb got bailed out of a lot in
the early possessions where he's still missing. I wasn't happy
with his finishing through like some contested lanes. I thought
he got bailed out by some putbacks a little bit.
Best game that he's played, I think their second best
game he's played in this series. I thought the thirty
two piece was probably his best game in this series.

(29:50):
But I mean, I don't want to take anything away
from Jadub because he was excellent in transition. He was
excellent defensively, but I still I was just a li
litle bit disappointed with some of his finishing again in
this game. He's got to figure that out. But this
was This was a great Jada up game.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
The finishing was a lot better, though the driving was
a lot better. He knocks down a couple of threes
off the catch, which is so significant he had struggled
so much as a jump shooter. He knocks down a
couple of his signature mid range pull ups. Like everything
that wasn't going for him in games four through six
of this series was going for him in this one.
And like I said, the last three games for him

(30:26):
were embarrassing, and they put okc in a perilous spot,
just with how bad he was in game six, specifically
where they had to come out and close this out
in game seven. But I did think some of the
discourse with him went too far. He does have his
limitations in terms of his ability to create easy offense
in a playoff environment, specifically against a really good defense,

(30:47):
but he's still a really, really good basketball player. And
there were a lot of people who were saying, basically
he's a fraud. I saw tweets like Jadob is the
most obvious the dynasty starts after you player that there is,
and I just really didn't like that. Like I am
a Jada believer at my core, I'm not gonna say
that he's not flawed. There are times where I really
don't like his shot selection. There are times where, again

(31:09):
you feel like he's struggling to get anything easy. But
he's a very good playmaker for his age. He is
a three level scorer who when the jumper is going,
can give you a really good production. Did a nice
job floating the offense without SGA in the second half
of this year, And when I think sometime gets lost,
it's like this dude is a way better defensive player.
Than offensive player. We always look at second options and

(31:30):
we're looking at, oh, what's your offensive production. He should
have been first team All Defense this year. He's one
of the five best defensive players this regular season on
the planet.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Also, I mean, I Jacob is still so young.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, absolutely, man still so young. And I thought he
was also great cutting against the zone in this one.
He was great in transitioning, Like just a really nice
all around performance from him, which Oka see desperately needed.
He delivered it. I also thought chet was good in
this one. It's not a stat sheet that's going to
wow you, but he was great cutting against the zone,
making himself eventually for Lobs.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Especially out of the baseline.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
I completely agree because in that stretch that we were
talking about early in this game, when the offense was
stalled out, that was the easy way that Yep, they
were getting some buckets if it was Kason cutting into
middle of the zone. And I think Hartenstein and Holmgern
are so smart. They just know exactly when to cut
when those back line guys step up.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
And can kill them.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
And because you know Denver's a little bit limited defensively,
they don't have a rim protector on the floor. You know,
because it's Jokich and Gordon. They can't blow up those lobs.
Those are going to be there all game long.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
And I thought that that was one of the biggest
things that Okac figured out in the back half of
the series, those baseline cuts against the zone. They just
got so much more consistent with those, and they were
super effective. I also thought Chet was great on the glass.
I thought, as always he was great defensively. So the
big three all came through for okay See, and when
that happens, they're unbeatable because obviously Denver was never as

(32:53):
deep or as talented a team top to bottom as
okay See for them to win, for them to somehow
pull this thing out, like you needed Jadeubklunkers, you needed
Chet to look a little bit shaky offensively, and that
just wasn't the case in this one. I do want
to do a little bit more praising of the collective
Thunder team because I just think you see some of
the absolute winners they have coming through in a big

(33:16):
way in this one. Isaiah Hartenstein, what an addition he
was in the offseason for offensive rebounds, man, I mean,
how many of those did he finished with putbacks at
least two of them. So he comes in and gives
you some really big minutes on the offensive glass. We
know what a complete player he is with his touch,
shot making, with his passing, with his defensive impact caseon Wallace,
as you mentioned, just phenomenal. I mean, truly a uniquely

(33:38):
winning player for being as young as he is. This
guy is in year two and yet he's doing all
the right things out there in terms of his defensive versatility,
making plays, forcing mistakes, getting out in transition, making the
reads as a passer, confidently stepping into threes. He was
so big. And then Caruso we've already talked about, but
he could be the X factor man. He could be

(34:00):
the difference between OKC winning the title this year and
not winning it. Well, he's also because do they get
out of this series without him? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
We didn't mention and I hate bringing up the first
half again, but I really think it's important just because
it was the most competitive part of his game. I mean,
Caruso wasn't only just awesome defensively in his minutes too.
I thought he was huge when they got Dort off
the floor, just because Dort was clanging a bunch of
threes early, and Caruso is the guy that breaks that barrier.
They were zero to six at the beginning of this

(34:28):
game before Caruso makes their first three, like he's Caruso
settles this team down, and I think he really gives
them that veteran presence that they need. He is a stabilizing,
calming force. He's got that presence about him, him and
Hertenstein both, but even more so for Caruso. He's got
that championship pedigree. He has played in big games, in

(34:49):
big moments, and I think it can get overstated sometimes,
but I do think that's an important aspect of the
value that he brings to this young basketball team.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, he just knows what it takes to win on
both sides of the ball. I mean, he's a defensive genius.
His anticipation is one of a kind. His fight, his
dog is one of a kind. And then offensively, he
knows where to be against the zone. He knows when
a time his cuts, he knows how to find the
open man. He's comfortable stepping into those threes off the catch.
He's great in transition offense. He's great driving and finishing

(35:22):
those are the kind of players who win you championships, man,
and Okase has more of those guys than anybody, and
Denver is really lacking them. And I did think that
that was very apparent in this game. It's a uniquely
great performance by okay See legitimately to step up and
to be this dominant in game seven, but earlier in
the series, to respond after they fumbled away games won

(35:42):
in game three and really struggled in the clutch, and
then to come out with clutch wins like they gave
you in games four in five. I've said it before
with them, I'll say it a million times. More. Teams
this young do not do this. They don't come out
and win games this big, they don't go this deep
in the playoffs. It's very special.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I think we've seen growth within this year.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I agree. Let's talk about Denver side of this logan,
because as I said, I do think that one of
the things that was most apparent in this game is
just okay See has so many guys who you trust,
who you know are going to bring that high level
impact on both sides of the ball. Denver didn't have
those guys.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, I think it's about finding those guys, and you
got to figure out what assets that you really want
to keep around, and because it's not a full rebuild,
that you're not blowing anything up. When you've got Jokic
and Murray, it's all about retooling around those guys and
figuring out what combinations work. Aaron Gordon is safe to me.
Props to him for playing thud at hamstring injury. I
thought it was pretty reckless. We talked a little bit

(36:37):
about this, just pregame about how dangerous it could be
pushing the bill. But I mean, he played so hard,
he was rebounding so well. I thought, you know, he
gets lost on a few defensive possessions because he's a
step slow. But like, I can't blame the guy. I
just want to give him credit for playing through such
a serious injury.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
So Gordon and Murray.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Are locks to me. These are guys that fit with
Jokic like loves. They are perfect complimentary assets and the
skill sets that they bring. You know, honestly, Carson, I
wish Jamal was a little bit better and a little
more consistent for the price tag that he's on.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
But I just game was really bad from Jamal. It
was really bad. And this was a game where they
needed him to be huge, especially with the age injury,
with the MPG inconsistence, definitely, and it was the exact opposite.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I just don't think.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
That Murray's the guy that you can move off of
with his proven track record of being a clutch, big
time gamer and tough shot maker, and he really does
compliment Jokich and I think conventionally I do.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
I do believe he's.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
A playoff riser. So those guys are safe to me,
which does leave one odd man out. And he's been
the guy that we've been kind of pointing our finger
at all season long, and it is Michael Porter Junior.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think that is the next step for this team.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
And there's two, well, there's three key areas really that
I would like to see Denver improve in.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Bye Bye Logan, Rip to Logan and I'll take it
from here. Thanks Buddy for giving me the mic. Here's
where I think that things really went wrong for Denver
in this series. I've talked about the lack of depth,
and then there's two guys who I really do point
the finger at, and that's Jamal Murray in this game,
and that's Michael Porter junior obviously throughout this series, and
he's dealing with the shoulder injury, and so you empathize

(38:19):
with him, but nevertheless, I mean, just unacceptable results. Logan,
you're back.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I died. I don't know what happened. Man, I lagged out.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
I'm so glad to see that you're back. Anyways, I
was just saying, I think that you really put this
series on MPG struggles and he just had a disastros
postseason overall. But also Jamal, as you said, you need
to be more consistent, there were some really high highs.
I mean, he had some great performances. You think about
what he did in Game five against the Clippers, just

(38:48):
like one of those signature Jamal games. You think about
what he did in Game three of this series. He
had some really really good moments. Thought he was very
good in Game six, but he it was on tough shots,
and if you really dial up the pressure and you
really dial up the physicality, you can give him some trouble.
He doesn't really have that high level burst and sometimes

(39:10):
he's just not going to knock down the tough shots.
He's a special shot maker, but when you don't get
anything easy for yourself, night after night. You are always
susceptible to volatility, and sadly, it's not surprising at this
point that you're getting the roller coaster with Jamal, that
he's up and then he's down. Even in a huge
spot like this, the reality is he's not going to
replicate what he did in twenty twenty three ever. Again,

(39:31):
in my opinion, I think you're always going to have
sort of this rocky road with Jamal, and he's not
going to be worth his price tag. He's not an
all star caliber player. You know, there's a reason this
guy has never been an All Star before. I mean,
people mythologize like playoff Jamal Murray and it was real
in the bubble and it was reel in twenty twenty three.
Last year, he was horrible in the playoffs. This year
he was better. And I think overall, you don't necessarily

(39:52):
feel bad about what Jamal gave you unless your expectations
were every time. Once we get to April and May,
he's going to become I'm a different player. He didn't
become a different player. He had some really good games
and some really bad games, and he had a really
bad game in Game seven.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
So to you is he expensive enough to warrant potentially
moving off of for a different player.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
I do really like his fit with Jokic. I think
their two man game is still some of the best
offense in basketball. I think he's not a great isolation
score but he is a great pick and roll scorer,
and Jokic is so great at freeing him up, being
one of the best screeners in basketball, and if you
can get him some space to get to his pull

(40:32):
up jumpers, he's pretty fantastic. I do think he is
one of the best clutch scorers in basketball, so I
probably wouldn't move off of Jamal. I don't really know
how they upgrade that. You're not trading Jamal for a
better guard. The other team isn't going to agree to that, ye,
so you have to have some quasi star guard in
this mold. I don't think that Jamal is a top

(40:53):
thirty five player in the NBA, but he's just outside
that range and you need somebody who can be that
ball handler who can give you those scoring infusions with Jokic,
and they've committed to Jamal, and I just think he's
that guy for them. So I understand frustrations with the inconsistency,
and I would share some of them, but I don't
think you're moving off of him and finding somebody who
is better in that same mold. It's just not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I agree, and I think that's why you need to
try to find another guy that can help give you
some of Jamal's value in his archetype when he's not
out there on the floor that can also compliment Jokic.
That's easier said than done, but that to me is
why Michael Porter Junior is the guy that I'm really
willing to shop out. Now, that's not the deal that
you're gonna make with MPJ. With MPJ, you need to

(41:36):
get a three and D wing emphasis on defense there,
Like I really think you need a guy that can
just be impactful there and make shots. And MPJ wasn't
even good at making shots this postseason. So I think
you're okay with moving off of him. And even though
he had a bad series, I think he's still an
intriguing asset because teams know that he was struggling with

(41:57):
the shoulder injury and that you.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Expect more out of him.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
It's not gonna be super easy trading him, but He's
the guy that I would look to flip either into
that piece or maybe two lesser players that where you're
getting that archetype I was talking about. You know, you
break him down into a point guard shooting guard who
can handle for you and run some offense and can
make some shots from behind the arc and can run
pick and roll with Jokic and a three and D wing.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
But that's the pivot.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Point to me, is MPJ, because you've got to get
off his money to maneuver some things around further down
this roster.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Though.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
You know, I do like Brown on this team. I
really like Brown. I thought he had a really good game.
I thought he had a really encouraging postseason. I'm not
in a hurry to move off of him. I think
Brown really works here. And yeah, just improving on the margins,
getting more playable players and maybe guys that give you
different looks. I think i'd keep Russ too, I try

(42:51):
to bring Russ back.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I think he works here overall.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
You know what you're getting from Russ. You know, I
wouldn't count on him to give you great playoff minutes
every single night, but he can give you some punch
off the bench, some nights. I like Peyton Watson, so
MPJ is the odd man out.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
In all of these.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Guys that I'm bringing up to, They're not deal breakers
for me to move off of. The only guy that
I really wouldn't want to move off of is Jamal. Obviously,
Joki is completely untouchable. You know you're not moving off
of him for anything.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Jamal is probably the guy.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Jamal and Aaron Gordon are the guys that I really
wouldn't want to move off of. Everybody else to me
is expendable.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, I think that Aaron Gordon certainly he is to
me better in his valuel than Jamal for his contract
as well, absolutely just so good. And also like for
now at least one more year, you have Christian Brown
at supreme value while he's still on that rookie deal.
And I do think that this was an up and
down postseason for him. I definitely would have liked to

(43:50):
see him shoot the ball better from three overall, he
ends the postseason at just about thirty percent from deep,
and he is so great in transition. He added that
dimension to this off I did think that his point
of attack defense was pretty good overall in the playoffs.
I thought his cutting was really good. That shooting, though, man,
that's the X factor with him, and it really wasn't
good enough in this postseason. So even though I think

(44:12):
he deserves praise for this game and he was one
of the few guys who made any threes, he still
shot two of nine from deep in this game. That's
not good enough in a spot like this. But in
terms of where this team is headed, I think that
an MPGA trade is absolutely the route because this team
is not far away. Man, they are not far away,
Like with the level that they were able to defend

(44:34):
at in these playoffs, even with personnel that you don't
necessarily love on the defensive side of the ball, we
know that this offense is going to be one of
the best in basketball because they have Jokic, because they
have Murray, because they have Aaron Gordon. Really because they
have Jokic. I mean, just that's something that you're going
to count on year after year with him. They have
to improve their depth, they have to improve their overall

(44:55):
wing group, they have to improve they're shooting down the roster.
NBJA was terrible in the playoffs. He was horrible as
a shooter. And when he's horrible as a shooter. He's
just a bad basketball player because he's not consistent in
any of the effort or IQ or defensive aspects of
the game. His shooting, when he's right and when he's hot,
it is special, and that's why he's been such a

(45:16):
valuable offensive weapon alongside the Murray Jokic two man game
for years. But he is too dependent on that shooting
to be a forty million dollar player. When if that
shot is off, you're like, yeah, I guess we'll close
with Russ and we'll see what we can get. Like,
he just can't justify the contract.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I think I have an idea for a team who
might be interested in his contract.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Though, Okay, I have a trade idea for MPJ as well,
But go ahead, okay.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I am sending MPJ, along with Zeke Naji and Dario
Sarich's contract filler to the Orlando Magic for Jonathan Isaac,
Cole Anthony and Goga Batadze.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Hmm hmmm. Uh, that's something I don't know if I
believe that Jonathan Isaac was gonna play.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I think the only games you're paying him twenty five mil,
and he can probably only give you twenty minutes a night.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
But yeah, Cole Anthony also sucks.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Cole Anthony does suck, and.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Goga would be nice because he'd be an actual backup center.
At the same time, I'm hopeful that Deron holds it
comes that actual backup center for the next year. I
think will they could probably get more than that for MPJ,
because realistically, I don't know, man, that's not much.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
I just think you need to find a team that
is really limited spacing wise and would be willing to
give no for sure.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
You know, like it's interesting from that perspective.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
There's a I think you just need to find a
partner who's really desperate to find shooting and Orlando to
me is one of those teams.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
So this is a modified version of a trade that
I proposed a while ago. MPJ Denvers twenty thirty one
first and a twenty twenty eight first round pick swap
to Miami for Andrew Wayhiggins, Heywood high Smith and Niko Jovich.
You think that's too steep because realistically, Miami's tough to

(47:07):
do business.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I don't know if you're I think Jovich is probably
the one that I would if you cut it off
at Wiggins in high Smith. I think Miami would do it.
I don't know if you're going to give up Yovich, though.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
You need another contract in there to make the money work.
At the very least, what is Mitch.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Do you think Miami would be willing to part with him?

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Well, he's gonna get paid this offseason. He's gonna have
a new contract, so he's probably gonna be on a
bigger deal, is I guess? I guess I do that, man.
I mean, you don't think that that draft capital is
intriguing enough. And you don't think Miami looks at MPG
and says he's younger than Wiggins, he's the more dynamic
offensive talent. We're getting some future assets. Maybe they would,

(47:48):
Maybe they would still.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Prefer what they have. I don't think you're far away.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
I just think they really appreciate Yovich and wouldn't want
to part ways.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
I think they do too. I think they do too.
That's a trade that for Denver would be a home
run though, in my opinion, because those are the things
that you need to prioritize. You need to have again,
more guys who you can put into some of these
crunch time lineups who can knock down outside shots because
Christian Brown is very good, but sometimes I would love
to be able to put somebody who I think is

(48:15):
going to make consistently thirty seven thirty eight percent of
his threes. And then once you go past Christian Brown,
like let's just say MPG is off, you don't want
to close with him. Then you're looking at Russ, who
does some good things for you but can be very volatile.
And then like Peyton Watson, he's zero for five from
the field in this game. Man, he's just not ready.
He's just not the shooter you need him to be.
Strather or shout out for his Game six, he was

(48:37):
a disaster in this game. He goes one for four
with two turnovers. Like, I just still don't think you
can count on either of those guys. And I don't
think the Denver should be in the business any longer
of being like, hey, let's develop these late first round
draft picks from the Calvin Booth era, Like, no, you
need to be finding guys who can give you quality
minutes right now. That entails wing defense, that entails the

(48:58):
ability to scramble on the back to make plays as
a low man. When Denver puts two on the ball
and just guys you feel like are grown men who
are capable of playing minutes in the playoffs, and you
know what you're getting for somewhat on a night to
night basis. So I don't think they need to shake
things up in a major way. I just think MPG

(49:18):
should be gone and they should prioritize wing defense, depth
and winning basketball players. That's what it takes, man, That's
what you lose with KCP. That's what you lose with
Bruce Brown. Guys who know how to win basketball games.
They didn't have those guys this year.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I've got one more hypothetical eye cooked up.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
You let me know what you think, all right. So
it's MPJ straight up sending him to a division rival,
sending him to Portland for Denny Avvia Matisse Thaible.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
I'm already gonna stop you. I mean, Denny's a way
better asset than MPG. I agree, it just couldn't happen.
I would love it, Are you kidding me? I think
that if Denver could get Denny, they'd throw a party.
But she's not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Denny, to me, is like the exact player that I
would like to sub in here for MPJ.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
He would be amazing. I think that Andrew Wiggins is
a really good fit because he's a great wing defender,
he's a pretty good offensive player. I think he'd look
better alongside Yokic because everybody does. And he's on a
better contract than MPG. But he is a little older,
so I don't know. Maybe he's a little bit more attainable. Regardless,
I think that you feel good about how this season

(50:20):
ended if you're Denver, obviously not game seven. Game seven
was a disaster, but the fact that they got past
the tough Clippers team and then they pushed the Thunder
to a Game seven, like I wouldn't be surprised at
all if this is the hardest anybody pushes OKC in
this postseason. And when you think about where they were,
firing Calvin Booth, firing Michael Malone with three games to
go on the regular season, they were in a really

(50:42):
dark place, and they bounced back from that in a
very impressive way. They have Nikola Jokic, one of the
greatest players ever in the heart of his prime. I'm
not going to sit here and say that it's acceptable
that the last two years for them have only resulted
in two playoff series wins, because it's not they should
be contending year in year out. At the same time time,
I think that they were closer this year than you

(51:03):
would have thought at the end of the regular season,
and that's encouraging. You believe in what Aaron Gordon gives
you night after night. You're encouraged overall by this season
from Christian Brown. You know what you're getting from Jokic,
and you know what you need to prioritize. So go
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Speaker 1 (54:05):
Carson and I got one more, Okay, And how many
picks do the Nuggets have to play with first round? Wise?

Speaker 3 (54:12):
So not a ton. They're twenty thirty one is the
only that they can trade outright, and then they can
swap in twenty twenty six, twenty eight, and twenty thirty.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
So I think we would take the twenty thirty one
first and send this out outright with MPJ. I also
think you would have to attach another one of those
first rounders to make this happen. I still think the
other team says no. But here's the hypothetical MPJ and
two first round picks to Sacramento for and you got
to add in Nause and Sarach.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
But for Levine.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Hmmm, for Sacramento, it's basically you get more draft capital
for you know, long term. For the Fox trade, I
just the optics I think on that are really bad
because you're going from Fox to Levine to MPJ, but
you are accruing more draft capital. Well, if I'm Denver,
I think it's a really good move.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Though I would be a little worried about the front court,
like I really think they need to prioritize It'd be
worried about personnel.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Well, I guess in this hypothetical, you're moving Brown to
that three spot, You're putting Levine in at the two.
I'm worried about the defense too, But I think that
offense would be ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah, but my concerns about MPJ aren't offensive. I mean,
I understand he wasn't nearly good enough offense.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
This run is really dynamic, and I think he would
just open up avenues of offense that MPJ doesn't bring.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
I think that the fundamental roster building philosophy for Denver
has to be we trust Jolkic to elevate our offense.
We need to put good defensive personnel around him, and
we need to put good depth around him, so we
aren't so overly dependent on an MPJ because we're paying
him forty million dollars a year. So that's not the
route that I would prefer to take if I were them.

(55:55):
We'll see what mpj's value is this offseason. But if
they are not dangling him out there, if they aren't
trying to move off of him, I think that it's
a mistake. I understand what his offensive fit can be
at its best, and I understand that he was hurting
these playoffs, but it's just too inconsistent and it's ultimately
not what their top priority should be this offseason in
my opinion. And then on the margins, you need Deron

(56:16):
Holmes to be a rotation caliber backup big, and like
you said, if they can retain Russ, they should. They
need somebody who can bring them ball handling in bench creation.
Russ was really good in his minutes with Jokic overall
this year. Of course, he's inconsistent and he wasn't capable
of leading the bench to good results when he was
on the floor. Without Jokic, he struggled a lot more

(56:37):
in that role, but as a compliment with his ability
to pressure the rim and playmake and cut and knock
down open corner threes, he was a huge, huge upgrade
from what Reggie Jackson was last year. So I don't
know what Russ's market is going to be. He's got
a player option, but it's like basically the minimum, so
I wouldn't really expect him to take that, but I
do think that they should try to bring him back
if they can, and just generally, it would be nice

(57:01):
if this team had one more ball handler because I
do think that you've seen that limitation exposed in back
to back playoffs when they go up against these ferocious,
super physical teams that bring a ton of ball pressure,
Jamal can get overwhelmed.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
A guy that can create his own shot too, yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I mean a guy that can handle the ball, guy
that can beat ball pressure like Jamal can struggle with that.
Aaron Gordon isn't the ideal option, and obviously this game.
It was really hard for him because of the hammy,
but they were just crowding him and pressuring him so
much and he was really really struggling. Obviously, Christian Brown
doesn't do that. That's something that in an ideal world,
I would like to see this Denver team half. We

(57:35):
got some super chats Logan that I want to get to,
Eli says. I previously asked what team is Jalen Williams
playing for next season. He's playing for okc raw.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
I agree right now, Jadob was always playing for OKAC Man.
I do want to give him credit, even though the
points were ugly, and that's obviously the bottom line and
the most important. I did think Jadubb's impact always extends
past buckets.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I mean he was bad in the first six games.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I mean it was he's sub thirty five percent in
the field coming into game seven, sub twenty three percent
from behind the arc, uh, sub fifty percent through shooting.
But shout out to him for stepping up in game seven. Man,
he answered the call and he's gotta be I'm hopeful
that Jada's gonna carry that into next series too, because
they're gonna need him.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
My philosophy has always been like a lot of people
are too hasty to try to blow up the core
three for okase Yeah, I'm very much in favor of
them being aggressive for like guys who they can move
future draft capital, for guys who they can move one
of their depth pieces for like Cam Johnson. The trade deadline,
I thought they should have made that move to just
put them over the top Denny last offseason. I was

(58:42):
very in favor of them trying to go out there
and get That's very different from moving off of jadaboard Chet.
That's basically a non starter for me. Chet is a
non starter. I'm not trading Chet in any world. Jadub
I don't think is as good as Chet. I don't
think his ceiling is as high as Chet. But I
still think that when you have a player this good,
this young, and you have a very good chance to

(59:02):
win the title this young, yeah, exact.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
And they all work together too, It's not like they
don't compliment one another. I think it's a great I
think it's a really great hierarchy that Okasee's got.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
I tend to agree. Noholme says, not sure this thunder
team is better than Indy.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
They are way better they are.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Indy is phenomenal. Indya is the best offense in the
playoff field. That being said, this is the best defense
we've seen in a long long time. Everybody is going
to struggle to score the ball against oka See. That
even includes the Pacers. And when Okase's offense is going,
they have a very high ceiling. And Shay is playing
at a level right now that is so extremely high

(59:40):
that if the guys around him are just capable as shooters,
I do struggle to see anybody beating the thunder the
rest of the way. Indy merchant Sam says, congrats to
Oksee they got the title. I'm not ready to say
it's locked up. I do think there are an odds
on favorite though, Like, would you say it's more than
fifty percent that Okasee wins the title? Because I would.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Yeah, they're my favorite too. I think that's about I
wouldn't go much higher than that, but I would.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Yeah. I think that Minnesota is dangerous. I think that
Indiana is dangerous. But I think that again, okay See
is going to disrupt every offense they face, and I
think that their offense and Shae specifically is playing well
enough that They're going to be extremely difficult to beat.
Amadu says, looks like Jadab doesn't have to look for
condos in Milwaukee after all. No, man, be patient. You

(01:00:29):
gotta be patient with young players. It doesn't excuse what
Jadab did over the last few games, but it does
feel like he can be a bit of a punching bag.
I don't know, like, did he get enough credit for
what he did against Memphis? I get it they were
always going to win that series, but when Shay was off,
he picked up the slack. He was outstanding defensively, He
was their best player in that series. And then once
he struggles, everybody is piling on him. I understand it

(01:00:50):
again because the stakes are so much higher and it
was inexcusable, But some of the big picture stuff with him,
I just think people can take too far at times.
Do you want to talk at all about the officiating
in this game, Logan, I know there's a lot of
Denver fans who are upset.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Well, I mean, I'll say this, like, I definitely think
a physical environment favors a team like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Oklahoma City because they just.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
They play harder, they play more physical on a nightly basis, personally,
I have been very, very happy at the level that
the refs have let these guys play. I get really
really irritated when I'm watching a basketball game and they're
just blowing the whistle a bunch, and I think physicality
just favors whoever's the more physical team. I just think

(01:01:34):
is gonna benefit from refs letting them go. And I
thought early in this game, I thought Denver did a
really good job of weaponizing that physicality and getting downhill
and drawing fouls. But late in this game, Oklahoma City
was the more physical team. So me personally, I have
no issue with the refs. I think they I've liked,
for the most part, how they've called these games and

(01:01:54):
the level of physicality they've allowed these teams to play with.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
I tend to agree, like I think that okay See
was clearly extremely physical with Jokic. I think that there
were plenty of possessions where Caruso is jostling with him
for position, where you call a foul in the regular season.
But I think if you look at the level of
physicality that has been allowed in these playoffs, if you
look at what Houston was allowed to do to steph
Off ball if you look at how like Karl Anthony

(01:02:19):
Towns has been guarded, just thinking about another post up player,
another big Like this is playoff basketball and refs are
allowing a ton of physicality and also like, yo, get
shot eleven free throws in the first half, and it's
allowed to be reciprocal. Like if you watch these possessions
and you're only watching either guy, you'll be like, hey,
he's fouling him. You can do the same thing with

(01:02:39):
Jokic jostling against Caruso, where he's got two hands on him.
He's allowed to do a ton of pulling and tugging,
and it's not like he got called for a single
offensive foul in this game. They're allowing mutual physicality and
I don't know, I also see people, Okay, so he's
allowed to do whatever they want to Denver and Denver
can't breathe on them, and it's like, yeah, okay, s
he's being allowed to play very physical defensively. But the

(01:03:00):
flip side of that is crazy, Like in the first
half of this game, okaysee had double the points in
the paint and less than a third of the free throws.
Denver shot comfortably more free throws than Okac in this series.
So I don't really understand the whining there. It's playoff basketball,
it's super physical. It has been across the board. The
team that sets the tone physically is going to be
the beneficiary. And Okaye brought the physicality in a big way.

(01:03:23):
And ironically, that's something a lot of people were like, Oh,
they'll struggle with because I think people underestimate them because
they look at them and they're not the biggest team physically.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
I mean, if you've been watching this team all year, though,
I mean, that's their identity. It's the biggest part of
their identity.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
One hundred percent. Man, it's that defense and physicality is
a big part of that. They very much set the
tone on that end.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
They're brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
This team is so smart, they're so interconnected, and that's
their superpower.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
You know, Sga is the MVP. SGA was the best.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Player in this series. The Oka se superpower is that
defense man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Speaking of which, I put out a poll to see
what the people had to say on who was the
best player in this series. Sixty one percent Sga, thirty
nine percent Yokich. That seems like an appropriate differential to me.
Like it was very close, But I do think that
you give SGA the edge overall. I do look at
the rest of this field. I do think that OKAC
is going to win the title. And I was kind
of on the side of whoever wins this series. I

(01:04:18):
was probably going to favor. Now the ag injuries certainly
changed things there. And you do have to give that
guy credit for playing with a Grade two hamstring strain.
I mean, I was scared. I didn't want to see
him out there on the court. I didn't think it
was a wise decision. I thought he managed it well,
thought he was active on the glass. I thought it
was very impressive, just the heart that he was able
to give for this Denver team. But this felt much

(01:04:39):
bigger than a second round series. I mean, this felt
like two heavyweights clashing Denver with their experience, Okac with
their raw talent, and it ends up being Okay. See
as the team that figures it out, they have the
couple blowout wins. We knew that was always going to
be their advantage in this series, that ability to pull
away and just bludge in the team opposite them in
a way that nobody else in basket ball can replicate.

(01:05:00):
That's what they got done in this one, and I'm
excited to see how much more they can do that
in these playoffs. We do have one more super chat
from Ali looking q FELLLWS or Ali, I can't tell,
Thank you very much. Jokic needed to bring the ball
up way more. Do you think whoever the new GM
is will value anyone not named Yolkic. I see what
you're saying with Yokic bringing the ball up, because you
think that's a way to counter the fronning. Right, We've

(01:05:22):
talked about that where we saw this with Sacramento, and
we saw this with La and we saw this with
Boston the regular season. They're aggressively fronting Yolkic, They're doubling
him when he doesn't even have the ball, and so
the best way to counter that is just have Yolkic
bring the ball up the floor. He already has the ball.
You have him run in vert of pick and roll.
He's so good at that. I don't know how effective

(01:05:42):
that would have been. I would worry about the ball
pressure and the activity of the hands of a caru.
So still, I think there probably still would have been
some turnovers. But I don't disagree I could have liked
to see Denver go to that more as a counter
at least to try something new because they were struggling
so much. Even get Jolkic the ball, What do you
think will the new GM value anyone other than Yolkic. Also,

(01:06:05):
I want to talk about if David Ademan as the
coach for this team, what you think about that if
he'll be back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
I wouldn't nothing would be off the table to me
if I was the general manager. Obviously there would be
things that I wouldn't want to do or blow up,
But I mean there wouldn't be an offer that I
wouldn't consider if a team made Like I'm considering everything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
I just think you have to consider everything.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
When you've got a player as special as nicolea Jokic,
I think you have to consider everything and consider every
move on the table that could help you pivot. Like
the guy I will use as the former Nuggets GM,
Tim Connolly, I thought he was a full for trading
for Gobert. I thought he was a full for trading
for Julius Randall.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
What do I know? They're back in the Western Conference Finals.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
It's like Tim Connolly put his nuts on the table
and said, I'm gonna be bold. I think this is
the best move for the future of our franchise, and
he went out and did it, and I think you
need to be I don't think you should be afraid
of making big moves or taking big swings, because that's
what it's going to take to win in this league,
and so will they. I think they should value certain players.

(01:07:07):
I would really highly value Jamal Marae and Aaron Gordon,
but I would consider everything, and I do think Adelman
is the coach of this team. I think, for the
most part, I liked what Adelman gave them in these playoffs.
The little tiny stuff that we talked about, the non Marie,
non Jokic, that's small. But I thought the collective fight
that we got for this team, the effort, I thought

(01:07:31):
it reflected a team that was engaged and was battling
and fighting for this coach. And obviously Game seven's disappointing,
but I liked what we got from Adelman on the whole,
and I think he is this team's coach of the future.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
I tend to agree like you said, I mean his
ability to rally the team when they were in such
a precarious spot and get them to play their best
basketball of the year in the playoffs. That's really significant,
and I thought that, like schematically, he did some really
good stuff going to the zone. Obviously, we can talk
about five minutes in the playoffs that he played the
non mari Ane Yolkiic lineups and that was bad, but

(01:08:05):
that's five minutes out of the playoffs. I think overall,
he earned this job, and it's ultimately gonna come down
to what does Yolkic want honestly, like what do the
players want in general? And my feeling is that they'll
probably want him back. In terms of is anybody around
Yokic untouchable. We already talked about this a bit, but
I've really like to keep Aaron Gordon. I don't think
they're going to be able to really find an upgrade

(01:08:25):
for Jamal MPJ is the guy who I look at. Obviously,
if you could get off of zekenology, that would be
a miracle. But what I would say is Denver's window
is not over. The window with this exact Big Four
maybe is over. They still got really close against OKC
with MPJ not healthy and with Aaron Gordon not healthy

(01:08:47):
at the end of the series. But you know, there's
been people all year trying to draw parallels between them
and like the Bucks, and the situations have just never
been comparable. Denver's corps is younger, Denver's core is better,
Denver has more chips to play, Denver has more stops
to still pull out. And if they can nail an

(01:09:08):
MPG trade and they can add the defense, and they
can add the depth on the wings and in the
front court that we're talking about, and they can add
some shooting, then I think that they could be one
of the front runners for the title next year. It's
going to be very, very difficult for them to surpass
OKC just because okay See has so much talent. They
have it under control and they're probably just going to

(01:09:28):
keep getting better as some of these young guys continue
to improve. But to have a puncher's chance, I think
that Denver absolutely is going to be in the mix
if they handle this offseason correctly, and even if they're stagnant,
you know, I mean, they have the Jokic factor. We
saw that they were able to get close in this series,
but I would very much like to see them be aggressive.
I think that they've lost too much experienced role player talent.

(01:09:52):
Over the last couple of years, they were too reliant
on developing young draft picks. That was a bad strategy.
I think that it put them back a couple of
years when they should have been contending. But I still
think that they have time to correct that, and I
still think that there's an opportunity for them to go
out there and win another title in the Jokich era.
Like it's difficult to do, but we've seen this era

(01:10:13):
of parody injury, luck breaks your way. You have the
best player in the world factor, and they should know
what they have to do to improve this roster. On
that note, Logan, we are done with one of the
most fun playoff series in recent years. My favorite playoff
series of this year so far. It's a bummer that
we didn't get a banger to go out with in
Game seven, but this was a hell of a journey overall.

(01:10:36):
We're going to be back tomorrow, not live.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
We got another super check.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Oh you're trying to spoil tomorrow's show.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Bro you egle eyed fellow Bori Cua says, I think
Minnesota's going to get Moriqua. Thank you. Logan is going
to give SG eight many problems, and I can see
Gobert having a monster series defensively minnesot six. What's say
you Okac in six? You'll have to find out tomorrow,

(01:11:04):
my friend. I hate to do you like that, but
you'll have to find out tomorrow. Now, I'll say I'm
gonna pick okay See to win this series. I'll pick
okay See in six. We won't talk about the details now,
but that's gonna be my prediction.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
I'm gonna take Okace in seven.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Okay, all right, Well, we're looking forward to it. We
will preview it in depth tomorrow, and of course we
will be back once these games get started Tuesday. Only
one day of rest for Okac is pretty gnarly. Meanwhile,
the Nixon Pacers both get tons of rest, kind of
a weird scheduling thing. But Tuesday we have the Western
Conference finals starting. Wednesday we have the Eastern Conference Finals starting,
so we will be back with our live streams. Of course.

(01:11:38):
Then you can find them all on our YouTube channel.
Join us post game, you can watch them back alf
of the fact, and you can listen to all of
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and be part of our community. And with that, as always,

(01:11:59):
I've been Carson Braber.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
I have been looking Camden and this was nerd Sash