Nerd Sesh - Top 10 Scorers - The Volume

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Watch Charles Darwin.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Nerves is where it's at.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome everybody back into the third sets as always, I'm
Barson Brabber and alongside and he is Logan Camden, And
we've had a little bit of a quiet week in
the NBA.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
This week.

Speaker 5 (00:33):
Of course, we have the NBA Cup going on, which
has actually been super fun. I mean basically all the
quarterfinal games that we saw we're really entertaining, and I
think that's been a very successful addition to the NBA calendar.
But nevertheless, it's a very quiet week around that, so
we haven't really had that.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
Many games going on.

Speaker 5 (00:50):
So today we're gonna zoom out and we are going
to rank our top ten scorers in the NBA. Logan
before we get into the list itself, real quick, do
you want to give a little overview of what you're valuing,
what you're really considering for this list.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, So I started with guys who I trust to
get their own buckets, But I also think it's an
interesting balance of in certain context, can they compliment other
guys too? Right? Could they be the second fiddle alongside
another ball handler? How do you compliment other guys off ball.
I'm really taking everything into consideration, and uh yeah, that's

(01:29):
pretty much how I gauged and how I tried to
strike the balance a little bit, because I think it's
deeper than just you know, how you impact the game
with the ball in your hands. We're not just ranking
the top ten toughest buckets, so to speak.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
Absolutely, and I would also add that in particular, I
really highly value how I think you're scoring scales to
the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
In fact, that's basically what.

Speaker 5 (01:50):
This list is for me, because that's a great players
today and throughout NBA history who are significantly more effective
regular season scores. To me, it's about when you get
to that rock fight environment where you're facing more physical defenses.
High level defense is key in on taking away your
greatest strengths. How do you still perform in that environment?
So sort of inherently tied in with that, versatility is

(02:11):
something that I value a good bit on this list
as well.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I'm just gonna ask.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
Out right, Logan, did you consider Kawhi Leonard as a
candidate for your list or do you not believe Kawhi
Leonard exists as a healthy basketball player.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I didn't consider Kawhi Leonard or Joel Embiid. I don't
think they or Embiid I don't. I'm people can be upset.
I am not going to consider those guys for any
list for MVP for they're not well healthy and eligible
for MVP, for any award for any they're not healthy enough.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
That's interesting. So I had Kawhi in my top five
scores list, and we did this last year because I
think that Kawhi is kind of the epitome of the
dudes who's scoring arsenal scales perfectly to the playoffs, and
he's consistently gotten better there and up to his volume
and maintained a lead efficiency. He to me, has passed
the threshold of just not being available in any sort

(03:01):
of big moments. Right He's played four playoff games in
the last three plus years, and he hasn't played a
single game this season, So I unfortunately did disqualify him
and Bead. However, I do have on my list because
he has been healthier in postseasons in regular seasons in
recent years, and he has at least played basketball this year,

(03:23):
so wanted to.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Clarify that off bat.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
Unfortunately, I don't think that we really can have Kawhi
in these conversations. At this point, let's start with your
number ten spot, Logan, who is the last score on
your list?

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I agonized between the guy in my ten spot and
eleven spot debating on who I should go between. I
went with Devin Booker in my ten spot, and d
book is an interesting case because he's having a bit
of a down year in terms of efficiency. He's averaging
twenty five points per game on forty three percent from
the field, just thirty four percent from behind the arc,

(03:58):
and fifty eight percent true shooting. But book is a
guy that really has a complete scoring skill set where
he can score from all three levels. He can score
with the ball in his hands, off ball around screens
as a spot up guy. And that's why I thought
Book ultimately had to make my list because of how
good of a complimentary score he is as well as

(04:21):
a guy with the ball in his hands. Right, He's
a ninety six percentile post up scorer this year, and
that's a real big advantage that I think Devin Booker
has two especially when compared to my guy in my
number eleven spot. And I guess I'll spoil it. I
have Kyrie Irving in my eleven spot, and Kyrie was
a really tough o mission because Kyrie's been good in

(04:43):
the playoffs and he was really good last year anytime
Dallas needed him to step up. But Book is a
little bit bigger and they're so similar to me. But
just because of Kyrie is getting a little bit older
and because I think that Book is so I went
with him. But the reason that he's not higher on

(05:04):
this list is because I think he lacks those elite
physical traits that can just help him overtake, you know,
really get him easy shots and really take over games
that speed, the burst, the strength. There are just other
guys on this list that I like those physical traits
from them more. But Book really has a complete scoring
skill set, and that's why I thought he had to

(05:26):
make the list, because again, I'm not just considering you
what you can do on ball. Book can co exist
as a number two and just within the flow of
the offense. So that's why he's here for me. And
if he was more efficient, I think Book might have
a case to be even higher on this list. But
right now, with how he's playing, I got him at
number ten.

Speaker 5 (05:42):
I have Book at number ten as well. It's really
interesting to me that Kyrie was the first guy off
what you mentioned, though I wouldn't have him quite that high,
and obviously, like if we're talking aesthetics, he's got a
case to be number one in the NBA today. He's
an absolute artist. I just think the big difference between
him and Book is they are both incredible, difficult shot makers,

(06:03):
incredibly skilled jump shooters. But the difference is the size
that you mentioned and also the ability to manufacture easy
offense by getting to the line, because neither of these
guys are those traditional quick downhill advantage creators. But Book
is bigger, he's stronger, and he gets to the line
like seven times a game. So that's where even though

(06:24):
you mentioned the field goal percentages are down this year,
his true shooting percentage fifty eight. That's okay, right, It's
not where you want him to be, But for how
slow of a three point shooting start he's gotten off to,
that's not a bad spot to be and that to
me is the baseline that he gets with his ability
to get to the line. Whereas Kyrie, at the end
of the day, like he had some high highs in
the playoffs, last year. But he's really volatile, and I

(06:47):
thought that he was just absolutely horrible in that Boston
series when you put him up against an elite perimeter defense.
And I'm not saying that he didn't also torture really
good perimeter defense in Minnesota. It's just I do think
there's a lot of air with Kyrie because he's so
solely dependent on that difficult shot making Book. I think
you have a little bit of a higher floor, but

(07:08):
compared to the guys who are higher than him, yeah,
those dudes do have more of an ability to create
real advantages to get all the way downhill. And maybe
some of them also are better high volume three point shooters,
because the thing with Book is he does live on
a pretty tough shot diet, and particularly he lives out
of the mid range a lot. Now, he's an incredible

(07:28):
mid range shooter. He's fifty percent from mid range this
season and consistently hovers around that mark, and that is
a huge foundation of what makes him such a great
score And to me, he's the most versatile scoring guard
on the planet because he is such an unbelievable jump
shooter from mid range, also really good from beyond the arc.
Because of the ability to post up and kill you
to get to his own shot out of pick and roll,

(07:50):
out of isolation. He's an elite off ball scorer, which,
as you mentioned, I think makes him an excellent number
two score if that's what you're asking of him. And
he is an excellent foul dry, so that does give
him a higher floor than again a guy like Kyrie.
So I just think he's got the body of work
in terms of production over the last few years where
we don't have to overreact to him having a not

(08:11):
great twenty game stretch, which again is still twenty five
points per game on fifty eight percent true shooting, because
the previous two regular seasons he's twenty seven and a
half a night on sixty one percent true shooting. Over
the last three postseasons, he's almost twenty nine points per
game on sixty five percent true shooting. That's great production
and that's really good efficiency too. His limitation is, though,

(08:33):
that lack of high end athleticism, and I think where
we saw that most recently and most glaringly in the
playoffs was against Minnesota, where at times he's struggling to
handle the ball comfortably right against just those crazy, feisty
perimeter defenders applying full court pressure and he's struggling to
get a step on those guys. He ends up exploding
in Game four. So his production from that series still

(08:55):
looks solid, but games one through three was a struggle,
and he has the ability to do what he did
in Game four no matter what level of defense you're playing,
and that does make him special. And the year before that,
I mean, he had a historically great scoring playoff run.
So I land with book at number ten. I do
love the off ball ability, I love the versatility, I
love the pure shot making.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
But there are dudes.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Who make their own lives easier and I'm gonna take
those guys over Devin Booker at this point because I
feel like we have seen against Minnesota and early in
this regular season some of his limitations and how they
can limit.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Him just a bit. Okay, who do you have in
that nine spot? Logan.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
One of those guys that I think has better physical
tools than him, and that's why he's above him is
Jason Tatum, and he's gonna come in at my number
nine spot. Wow. Now, I think Tatum has a lower
floor than Devin Booker because we've seen Tatum settle for threes,
and we've seen him have catastrophically bad performances where he's
not hitting anything and it normally doesn't come back to bite.

(09:56):
The Boston Celtics and Jason Tatum has a bad game
because they have so much get talent, So you can
afford Tatum to have an off night more than some
of these other superstars because of all of the ability
in Boston. That being said, I think Tatum probably is
a higher ceiling than d book because of his affinity
to get hot from behind the arc. And I also
do like his physical traits better. We've seen Tatum get

(10:18):
stronger and develop more of a post game over these
past two seasons. We've seen Tatum get down hill more.
Now this year he's actually taking I think forty five
percent of his shots from behind the arc or something ridiculous.
I think it's his career fifty. It's insane. But Tatum
can just impose himself a little bit more than Devin

(10:39):
Booker physically, and that's why I prefer him mostly is
I do trust him to get to the cup more.
I do trust Tatum to draw a fouls and get
to the line at a similar level to Devin Booker two,
And like d book I also think that he has
a really good complimentary scoring skill set alongside other guys,
not just what he can do with the ball in
his hands. I think Tatum's a good cutter when he

(10:59):
comes to it. I think he's a really good spot
up player and with all the stuff that he can
do on ball. The reason that Tatum's this low is
because I do think there is some volatility with Tatum
that you don't get with some of the other guys
that are higher on this list. Right, Like I said,
Tatum can disappear in games. Sometimes he can get really
happy with the pull up three and stuff like that
and completely disappear. But I was confident he would return

(11:21):
to form after that abysmal playoffs last year, and I
really think Tatum has answered in a big way. There
are guys I just trust more, though, and there are
guys with worse physicals than Tatum high on this list.
There are guys with but I think they most of
these guys have higher ceilings, and even though they may
not have the physicals, I just trust them a little

(11:44):
bit more in a playoff setting than Jason Tatum. But
I think Tatum's bounced back in a pretty big way
this season, So I.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Have Jason Tatum just off my list.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
I actually do prefer Book as a scorer to him purely,
and I do think the shot making a real factor there, right.
I think both of these dudes, when it comes down
to it, often do live on very jump shot heavy
diets and they do get to the line at similar rates.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
And when it comes down to that, I just.

Speaker 5 (12:11):
Think Book is clearly a better jump shooter, and we've
seen that scale, and he's more versatile in terms of
how he can get to his spots right, utilizing the
mid range at a really high level, not just relying
on pull up side step threes as we can see
happen with Tatum, And I do think Book is a
significantly better off ball player in my opinion. I mean,
Tatum certainly has the ability to knock down catch and

(12:31):
two jumpers at actually a really high clip, but I'm
talking more about the totality of moving right, being able
to curl around a screen and get to a mid
range jumper or attack off the catch in those spots.
Those are the things that Book does a lot in
his scoring arsenal that we don't see nearly as much
from Jason Tatum, who again is a great catch and shooter,
but I'm talking about the totality of your off ball play.

(12:53):
I prefer Book in those ways, and I do think
the Books game has scaled better to the postseason playoffs
since twenty twenty two, Jason t under twenty six points
per game. The volume production isn't bad, but on just
over fifty six percent through shooting, I don't think we
can overlook how erratic he's been there. He got off
to an amazing scoring start to this year, but he
has cool down sense, and I still think you do

(13:15):
get some of the volatility with the pull up shooting
with him and just some frustrating shot selection at times.
So I absolutely think he's in these conversations because the
ceiling with him is incredibly high. Right when he is
fully maximizing his physical advantages and getting downhill and bullying
people out of the post, attacking mismatches, and he's knocking
down his jumpers both pulling up and off the catch.

(13:37):
That's a dude who can give anybody nightmares. But even
though Book doesn't have the most physical advantages, he's been
more consistent he's been more efficient, He's scored with higher
volume in those playoff environments specifically, and I'm gonna lean
on him for that reason.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I just like Tatum's physicals more and both of these
guys are kind of erratic, and I don't know, maybe
both of these guys kind of left a sour taste
in my mouth after the last playoff run because Book
really got bottled up by Minnesota and then Tatum just
completely fell apart for the entire the entire running. Couldn't
itIt a jump shot? Right? You know? It bled into
the Olympics.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
So I got the lower low as a scorer.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
I agree absolutely.

Speaker 5 (14:17):
Then we've seen from anybody who we're going to talk
about on this list, a completely exception, but definitely a
lower low then we've seen even from Book.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
And Book has had.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Some postseason runs that weren't super pretty like last year,
especially that was an extended close games. Yeah, but that's
such a small sample size. That's like a handful of
games in his career. But Tatum, it was twenty plus
games in the postseason last year when he really struggled
as a score. I know that Celtics fans are going
to be mad I think Jason Tatum right now is
the fifth best player in basketball. I think he's a

(14:46):
top five player, but that's because of his incredible versatility
and his growth as a playmaker and his defensive versatility,
what he does on the glass. Right he is the
ultimate all around player in the NBA today. As a
pure scorer, I think he's just outside the top ten.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
So I've got battle scars with both these guys. But
I do prefer Tatum's physicality. I just think he can
do things that book can't with his strength against bigger
defenders and ball handlers. I like I can get to
the cup. I just value Tatum's physicals a little bit
more than book and that's why I gave him the edge.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
All right.

Speaker 5 (15:17):
Well, in my number nine, I have a dude who
I think also creates more physical advantage than Devin Booker.
In fact, I think creates more physical advantages for himself
as a scorer than both of the guys were talking about.
I have Anthony Edwards in my number nine spot, and
I think this guy has taken a leap after being
one of the least efficient pull up shooters in basketball
for each of the last few regular seasons. He is

(15:40):
now averaging the most points per game in basketball off
of pull ups with eighty third percentile efficiency on jumpers
off the dribble. Now do I think he's going to
maintain that sort of elite efficiency.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
I don't, But I also didn't think.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
He would still be shooting almost forty three percent from
deep this far into the season, and wherever he lands,
he's clearly improved by a good bit compared to previous seasons.
What's really interesting about Anthony Edwards is you think of
him right as this elite slasher downhill guard. He's got
the lowest two point percentage of anybody on my list,

(16:15):
just forty eight percent on twos. I do, ultimately, though,
have a level of faith in his ability to get
to the rim and finish in traffic when he needs to,
and I think that's where he's really special. When it
comes to just using his athleticism to finish in those
pack paints, he's consistently been so good. I'll tell you
another guy who I really really considered in this mix,

(16:36):
alongside book In Tatum, who I was comparing to ant
Donovan Mitchell, because I think that Donovan Mitchell belongs in
these conversations, and I think that he and Ant have
a lot of similarities and that they're both very high
volume three point shooters. Now Ant has joined that club,
and they're both good at it, but haven't consistently been
great at it over the course of their careers. So
it's a little bit of a double edged sword. But

(16:58):
they're super effective and finishers in traffic, and it's like
when they get in the mindset of I'm just gonna
get downhill, you feel like there's nothing you can do
to stop those guys. You think about what Mitchell did
against Orlando, right, I mean just his footwork, his body control,
and the paint he's finishing. It's some of the best
in basketball. His ball handling is so phenomenal. The reasons
that I go Ant over Donovan Mitchell purely as scores

(17:22):
a strength. I think that Ant's strength is a real
advantage in these playoff environments, right, his ability to go
through people, or his ability to create separation with his
strength for his mid range game, which I think is
another advantage that he does have over Donovan Mitchell. I
slightly prefer him there. He put on some real mid
range clinics in the postseason last year, and he hasn't

(17:43):
had as low of lows as Donovan Mitchell has in
the postseason where he totally falls in love with the
three ball and he goes ice cold. Mitchell has had
this totally polarized playoff scoring experience where he's got like
three incredible runs and then he's got two absolute clunker runs.
Ant's been consistent, man, and in previous runs you could

(18:05):
have said, oh, well, this is outlier jump shooting from him.
But now that he's shooting at this level in the
regular season, when this guy's also given you twenty eight
points per game on sixty percent true shooting in the postseason,
I think I trust him more than all the guys
who we've talked about. I trust him more than Book,
I trust him more than Tatum. I trust him more
than Donovan Mitchell as a scorer. Bottom line, when you

(18:25):
have this sort of athlete who is shooting at this
level like that, just scares the absolute shit out of me.
If I'm on the opposite side, and when he is
shooting like this, I mean he's effectively unguardable.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I'm not to toot my own horn. I did say
that last year during Ant's playoff run I was trying to.
I know you push back against it, but like Anthony Edwards,
you see it in practice highlights when you look at
him from Team USA to when he's in Minnesotas. This
has been a main focus of Anthony Edwards for a while,
and that's why I expected to see a leap this season.
I have both of those guys on my list. I

(18:58):
have Donovan Mitchell higher, and I also have Anthony Edwards
on this list. So it's interesting to me that you
bring those guys up. So I assume that we're gonna
have some guys that aren't on my list that are
higher on yours. I have Anthony Edwards all the way
up at number six, and for a lot of the
reasons that you laid out, like when we're talking about
these playoff environments, I want a guy who can just

(19:20):
explode past whoever's in front of him on ball and
get to the rim. And again, when he's shooting like this,
he is creating the two most efficient looks in basketball
so easily. And I think Edwards and Mitchell were an
interesting comp Carson, because I think both are in some
ways limited by their offensive scheme and the personnel that

(19:40):
are around them, right, I think that Mitchell, if Mitchell
was alongside Rudy Gobert for the longest time in Utah, right,
Anthony Edwards is now dealing with that in Minnesota now,
Donovan Mitchell has Jared Allen.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Some sort of survivors support group.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna need one, man. I just think, like,
like you, you see how Jalen Brunson has improved right
with Karl Anthony Towns alongside the five, And obviously that's
like an offensive haven, right, It's it's a utopia with
all that space to go and work. I feel like
Mitchell and Edwards would look better in offensive situations like that,

(20:13):
And so in a lot of ways, I feel like
we not that they're not they're not in bad offensive situations,
but they're not maximized. And both of these guys really
good pull up shooters, can get hot and go on
these crazy runs, and they're freak athletes, and that's why
they're higher for me on the list, and ant I

(20:34):
am just continuing to stockpile stock with Ann I think
and is going to be one of the best players
in the league one day. I've been saying that for
a few years now. I don't think it's a hot take.
I mean, and is such a specimen. And now that
the pull up jump shooting is being realized, I do
still think he needs to strike that balance more because
it is frustrating to me and I get it, man,

(20:55):
when the shots fall in and it's there for you
just want to pull it late in games. I'd like
to see and exercise a little bit of restraint. But
it is impressive, as you mentioned, twelve point three pull
up points per game, number one in the league, forty
two percent on pull ups overall, forty three percent on
pull up threes, and he's a ninety fifth percent title
spot up guy Carson. He's top ten in pick and

(21:18):
roll points per game and isolation points per game. He's
got some of the best physical traits on this list,
and now that the pull up jump shootings come along,
I think anto tootal package. When we're talking about playoff settings,
there's only five guys that I want more than ant.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
Well, listen, that doesn't surprise me coming from you, because
you are a huge hank guy. I mean the other
day when we had Tyler who ven you on, you
said you would take ant over SGA and I just
about had an aneurysm.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
But I can see the case.

Speaker 5 (21:47):
And I understand what you're talking about with situation being
a negative factor for him, right, making his life more difficult.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
As a score.

Speaker 5 (21:57):
Nevertheless, even though the spacing isn't great, would like to
see him get all the way downhill a bit more.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
But you do you do think that plays a little
bit of a factor.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
Though, right, absolutely, But I'm just saying I think that
we can acknowledge that there are multiple factors at play.
His situation is basically enticing him to settle for these
pull ups more, but also there is a level at
which I would like to see him just will himself
to the rim, and I do trust in his ability
to do that in the big moments, right, I mean,
I think that we saw it in the postseason last

(22:28):
year he was getting downhill quite consistently and pairing that
with the pull up shooting. But this regular season, only
fifteen percent of his shots are coming inside a three feet,
which is low for an athlete of his caliber, quite low,
And like I said, he's got the lowest two point
percentage of anybody on my list. But I believe in
him making the right decisions as a score and being

(22:49):
more physically assertive in those high leverage moments.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that's why I have him up at number nine.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
At number eight, logan, I really considered putting it above
this guy, but there is just a level of faith
who I have in my number eight where I'm gonna
still have him in this spot.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
I have Steph Curry, and Steph's.

Speaker 5 (23:06):
Raw numbers this regular season aren't gonna blow you away, right,
twenty three points per game, but the efficiency is still
really good sixty two percent true shooting. And with the
minutes restriction he was on early in the year and
with the super deep rotation the Warriors have been thrown
out there, he's only playing just over thirty minutes a game,
So per thirty six minutes, he's giving you twenty seven points.

(23:27):
So on a permanent basis, he's still out producing an
Anthony Edwards, and he's doing it more efficiently.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Now.

Speaker 5 (23:34):
I do think we've seen him take a bit of
a step back. He hasn't been as efficient as a
pick and roll scorer over the last two years. He's
off to a slow start in terms of his isolation efficiency.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
This year.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
He doesn't get to the rim very much at all
at this stage in his career. But he still has
what is right up there for the most special scoring
weapon in the planet with his three point shooting and
his jump shooting overall, and he's over fifty one percent
from the mid range this year. He's over forty one
percent from three. He's been on a little bit of
a slump as of late, but you have to remember

(24:08):
what he did to Boston in OKSE in Dallas just
a month ago, where he just assassinated those teams with
unbelievable displays of jump shooting, especially in the clutch. I'm
still gonna bet on that, man. I mean, that's Steph
Curry we're talking about, and his overall offensive impact is
out of this world, and I think you could say

(24:29):
it makes him probably like one of the three most
impactful offensive players. That's not just pure scoring because of
his off ball gravity, which is a huge part of it.
But we mentioned the other day, I mean the Warriors
have like a one to twenty two offensive rating with
him on the floor, in a one oh two offensive
rating with him off it, They're a complete disaster outside
of Steph Curry, but he alone has made them a

(24:49):
very good offense when he's on the court, and he's
still very efficient as a scorer, and he's shown that
takeover ability in big spots just hasn't been the most consistent.
But last year, even though he took the step back
after the All Star break and I think he got
worn down still on the year as a whole, he
gave you twenty six a night on sixty two percent
tru shooting. Last two postseasons that we've seen him in.

(25:11):
I get it, we haven't seen him in the playoffs
since twenty twenty three, but he was super impressive. And
when we're talking about bad offensive situations, it doesn't get worse.
It does not get worse than the offensive situation that
Steph is in, just in terms of the complete lack
of creation alongside him, the fact that he's often playing
in lineups where you have Draymond and an shooting big

(25:32):
on the floor. That's really hard. So I would need
to see more evidence of a drop before I put
Steph lower. But I'm starting to wonder Logan if you
have him off your list, because there's only so many
names you can have in a top ten. If I'm
not mistaken, you can only have ten names.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
The situation's a good point. I don't have stuff on
my list. Wow, it's more of a I want to
be clear about something when I say this, I agree
with you about the overall offensive impact if I was
just going off of And that's the balance that I'm
having trouble figuring out how to strike here because I

(26:06):
do have Donovan Mitchell on my list, and I think
that Steph even greater than these guys. But like a book,
like a Kevin Durant, Steph would scale so well even
if he was like a you know, a complimentary guy.
That's how he produces a lot of his offense right
without the ball in his hands, and he is in
an offensive hellscape. But there's other guys that physically I

(26:29):
want more with their tools and how they can get
downhill a little bit more than Steph at this point
in his career. And Steph was really hard to rank.
I had him as like the third guy off my list.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
And wow, it's.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Not offensive impact because again I think the gravity that
Steph has is insane. It's one of the highest of
all time. And the situation part, you make a good argument, man,
that's making me kind of rethink if I should have
Steph because it is a it's a shit show.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
And also I will say I really really like Donovan Mitchell,
but like the volatility with him is real. And again
last year in the playoffs we saw the great version
of it. But overall in the Playoffs since twenty twenty two,
his last three runs, he's just under twenty seven a night.
The volume is there, but I mean he can just
take a point six percent true shooting. He can't take

(27:25):
over second Steph Curry though Steph Curry's last two postseasons
he was twenty eight and a half a night on
sixty percent.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I think my thing was Steph is he is, and
I know he's the greatest shooter of all time. He
is just so reliant on the perimeter shot diet, where
I know Donovan can get to the rim at will,
Steph just can't.

Speaker 5 (27:42):
Hating threes is Steph in the playoffs Anyway.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
I cut Hi damn near.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I cut Mitchell some slack though, because I mean it's like, well,
when Garland is shitt in his pants and Evan Mobley
is limited and Jared Allen's not out there, it's like
I kind of empathize with Mitchell just hucking shots at
a point because he's the only guy getting buckets.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
I understand that.

Speaker 5 (28:02):
But Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, so
like to me, his specific dependence on that matters when
you get into higher conversations than Donovan Mitchell. And that's
no disrespect to Donovan Mitchell whatsoever. That is giving respect
to Steph Curry and what we've seen him do and
another consistently in recent years. And like again, per minute,

(28:22):
the volume and efficiency is still incredible.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Is another argument in his favor is I do think
I think Donovan Mitchell is the least malleable scorer on
this list. I would agree that was the Also the
balance I was trying to strike with Donovan is because
I don't think he scales as well as anybody on
this list along even I have Jalen Brunson on my list,
even a Jalen Brunson, right.

Speaker 5 (28:45):
Actually, I think that he probably well, it depends on
how you define malleable on ball. Who's more versatile absolutely Brunson.
Who has more off ball value?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I think I think off ball can tap into I
think Brunson's off ball value is improved now that they've
got cat like I think they're utilizing him more off screens.
He's shooting them now, like I don't. I think I
probably think Brunson scales better alongside other guys offensively, but
and I think it's just a mindset thing, like Brunson's

(29:14):
willing to do that stuff. Yeah, Mitchell sometimes isn't. And yeah, dude,
I'm sorry. This is the toughest dilemma that I had,
but I ultimately as the toughest decision I made, I
ultimately left Steph off.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Bro apologized to me for leaving Stem.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
I know you love him, Man's your baby boy.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
Well, I mean, dude, Steph Curry, for God's sakes, I
don't know. I need to see more before I have
him lower on this list. And I am glad that
you brought up the off ball scoring aspect, because obviously
that's where Steph is going to be better than literally everybody.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
Else on this list.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
And that actually caused me to debate the Book versus
ant Spot, because I do think the Book is so
much better as an off ball scorer than an Anthony Edwards.
And I really really do appreciate guys who have that
sort of versatile to their game.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
All right, So number seven who you got Logan?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Well, so I actually my number eight is Jalen Brunson.
Oh okay, I didn't get to him yet. So I've
got Brunson here at eight, And in comparison to other
guys on my list, in comparison to Steph Curry, I
just think Brunson can get to a variety of different
looks on the floor. And a part of that is
because of Steph's defensive attention, because I think that also

(30:27):
factors in. You talk about this scheme, that's what makes
Steph so hard to gauge. But I trust Brunson's like
how methodical he is, and when I look at a
Tatum or a D Book, I just think he can
work and get to his looks more reliably and better
than those guys. He's not settling. Jalen Brunson never settles,

(30:48):
and now with his newfound space, you're seeing him thrive
even more. He's top ten and pull up points per game.
He's shooting forty five percent on pull ups in generally
shooting forty one percent on pull up three. He's also
a top ten in scoring and among pick and roll
ball handlers. He's great out of isolation, and like I
mentioned earlier, I think we're seeing him tap more into

(31:10):
that off ball kind of value where he's coming off
screens and he's relocating and moving to open space and
willingly pulling and making shots. I think we're seeing the
off ball version of Brunton kind of unlocked this year
with all the supporting pieces that they have now. But
he's one of the best on ball guys in the league.
To me. He is always working downhill, he is always
hunting his shots. He can work back to the basket

(31:31):
when he gets inside the arc. Brunton is just gonna
work to get to his looks in a way that
I think Tatum can settle sometimes. I think Book can
settle sometimes. Brunson never really does that, and that's why
I prefer him. I think those guys have better physicals
and they're probably better off ball complimentary scorers. But Brunson
on ball, I know what I'm getting, and he's so reliable,

(31:53):
and we're talking about those playoff settings. I want that guy.
I know what Brunton's gonna do in the playoffs, right
like that twenty five. He may get it a little
less efficiently in the playoffs, but he's will give me
that steady twenty five every night. He can just impose
his will. And that's why Brunson's on my list.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
I have Jaalen Brunson at number seven, so we're very
close on this. This year, he's giving you twenty five
a night. He's doing it on career best sixty two
percent true shooting, and he just has one of the
highest floors as a scorer of anybody in the NBA
because he is so constantly playing at his own pace,
because he is so incredibly effective in terms of carving

(32:32):
his way to his spots, if that's from the mid range,
if that's from flow to range, where he's as good,
if not better than any guard in basketball. And his
ability to do that even in really tough offensive environments
is so valuable to me. And that is something that
sets him apart as a score from somebody like a
Jason Tatum, who obviously has way more physical advantages.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Right, Brunson is strong, but.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
He probably has fewer physical advantages than anybody on this.
I mean, Steph would really be the only guy who's
in that same conversation. But another thing that I do
think matters with Tatum, especially when you look at efficiency
is well, he's been less efficient than everybody who we're
talking about today in the postseason. While in offensive utopia,

(33:16):
Jalen Bronson was in brutal offensive situations the last two postseasons. Right,
Julius Randall was inept in the spot up shooting was
awful two years ago, and then last year Randa was hurt,
and then Og got hurt. Right, there were no other
creators on the floor, and over the last two playoffs
he's given you thirty a night on fifty six percent

(33:38):
true shooting. Not great efficiency, but consider the situation there,
and consider the fact that like the burden of every
grenade or every late shot clock, Hey, we just need
you to go create something that falls on Brunson every time,
just hey, get a shot up on the rim, and
we're a great offensive rebounding team, and like we like
our chances there. He was in such a unique situation

(33:59):
that to me, the efficiency, although it is partly a
product of the fact that he doesn't create advantages like
some of these other guys, it's also absolutely crucial that
you note the situation and what was expected of him
in terms of volume and also just his conditioning. The
fact that he doesn't wear down, that he can bear
that sort of volume, like that's a rare thing from
a score as well.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
So I'm super high on the guy. And the biggest
thing to me.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Is just his mastery out of pick and roll. He's
a ninety second percentile pick and roll scorer, but he's
also an eightieth percentile isolation score. I mean, just changes
pace so nicely, and it's that dominance of the intermediate
area that's ridiculous. He shoots fifty two percent inside the
paint outside the restricted area, but over the last couple

(34:42):
of years has also been able to ramp up his
three point volume and do so at elite efficiency in
the regular season. I mean, he's shooting forty three percent
from deep this year. And that's another thing about Brunson.
He is a very ball dominant player, but he's a
ninety ninth percentile spot up player in terms of efficiency,
and last year it's basically the same thing. I mean,

(35:02):
he's incredibly effective off the catch, and he's lethal as
a pull up shooter. He's got an effective field goal
percentage over fifty five on pull up jumpers. That's an
elite number. Got eighty six percentile efficiency as a jump
shooter off the dribble, and like Devin Booker, isn't a
guy who again has those sort of A plus athletic

(35:22):
traits where you think, oh, he's willing himself to the
rim and so he's getting the line a bunch. But
he does get to the line at a very good rate,
and that does give him a nice baseline as a scorer.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Two.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
So he's just one of those dudes who has a
crazy high offensive floor. Ironically, he just had one of
his worst offensive games scoring games in the last couple
of years because Dyson Daniels had that. Man in hell,
Dyson Daniels is something special. But we've seen Brunson do
it in the regular season. We've seen him do it
in the postseason with crazy volume. Now that he's in
a better offensive situation, we're seeing him do it with

(35:53):
borderline elite efficiency. I do trust him more as a
scorer than all the other guys who we've talked about.
I think on ball he just has such an incredibly
versatile array of ways to get to his spots and
to create buckets for his offense.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
So that's why I have him at number seven.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
It's a good case. And I went back and forth
a lot with between Brunson and my number seven, Donovan Mitchell.
Here's the thing. I think that Brunson clearly has a
higher floor than Donovan Mitchell just because again of how
methodical he is. But Donovan Mitchell's ceiling is so high
to me, and that's why he is so high on

(36:33):
this list because he can manufacture those looks at the
rim really easy. With his athletic traits. He can manufacture
pull up threes and get hot and knock them down.
And just I think Mitchell's greatest punch is better than Brunson.
I think you can say that about probably Tatum and
Devin Booker as well. But again it's those physical tools

(36:53):
that Mitchell has that burst the athleticism. That's why he's
above those other guys. But I understand you leave him off.
This is because, like I said, when you're looking at
the complimentary scoring skill set in the volatility, Mitchell is
probably the most volatile guy on this list, either him
or Tatum. And I know you don't have Tatum or
Mitchell here, so that makes sense. And then again when

(37:14):
you're looking at these guys scaling alongside other superstars or
other ball dominant guys. I think he probably has the
lowest value of anybody, But again, I really value his ceiling.
I really value the pull up jump, shooting out hot
he can get from there, and the physical tools. So
I've always floated in between Booker and Mitchell, and it's

(37:35):
always an interesting case. I'm officially planting my flag and
I'm on team Donovan.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
It's interesting.

Speaker 5 (37:43):
We've had this conversation numerous times before, and I don't
disagree that Donovan Mitchell has a higher ceiling. I just
think he has a significantly lower floor. I think that
there's a greater gap in terms of the floor than
the ceiling, because I mean, obviously we've seen Brunson explode
offensively in his own right, and I think when we're
talking about a lot of these individual scoring conversations, especially

(38:05):
if they're two dudes who are overwhelmingly on ball players,
I think I want the dude who individually has the
higher floor, who I do think is more consistent, because
especially in the playoffs, man, that's what matters, right. It's
not a pure numbers game in terms of oh, well
this shot at the rim is worth x amount of
points per possession. This pull up three is worth x

(38:28):
number of points per possession. It comes down to how
consistently can.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
You get yourself to a good shot.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
You might not get to those great shots, right, and
Jalen Brunson gets himself to a good shot so consistently
and especially in clutch situations. That's extremely valuable to me.
When you're in these rock fight environments, I think that
Jalen Brunson just shines and he's so resilient.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Right.

Speaker 5 (38:52):
This is something that we were actually just talking about
recently with Mars when we were doing our Top ten
Peaks of this Century and we were talking about on
our Top ten Peaks ever with the Keema LaJuan. These
guys who win the regular season live on tough shot
diets can maintain their efficiency and even up their volume
against better defenses in the playoffs because they're taking and
making the same shots that they're always used to and

(39:14):
in the playoffs, now those are the shots that are available.
And to me, Jalen Brunson is like the definition of
one of those dudes. He's a tough shot taker, tough
shot maker, but he's so great at it, and he's
so under control and he's so physically equipped for the
playoffs in terms of his strength that he's a guy
who I just believe in deeply there and I do
trust him more than a Donovan Mitchell.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
He's one of the most reliable guys. I'd say absolutely
is like not again, I think with his lack of
physical abilities and the ceiling, right, he's one of the
most reliable guys on this list though, like, if we
were doing that, he might be top five.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
Actually yeah, in terms of scoring floor, I absolutely think
that he probably would be. And last year the volume
was just something we very rarely seen from a Guarden player.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
And they needed it. They needed it every night.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
They absolutely needed it.

Speaker 5 (40:05):
They needed it so much, and I'm excited to see
al of fishing he can continue to be now that
he's in such a great offense situation compared to such
a terrible one.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
I know you made this camp. I think Tyler Hooping
you might have made it to last year. But the
Alan Iverson kind of comp was interesting, right, the defensive
oriented team you need your number one to step up.
It really was on that level, and I'm a static
I think the Knicks are going to be an elite
playoff offense this year, and I think Brunson and Cat
both are are gonna thrive.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
I mean, they're just a ridiculous offense period. And by
the way, I really considered Karl Anthony Towns for this list.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
He was He was one of the first five guys
where I dude, when I was going through all the
pages of like, you know, Advanced play Types, and I'm like, damn, man.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
He's just absurd. I mean, he's absolutely absurd. He was
one of my first three guys off. We'll get to
honorable mentions after. We don't need to do this thing now.
But kat has been so so great this year, and
as a pure scorer is in these.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Compas when we're talking about the top ten.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
It's the most wonderful time of the year for getting
in on all the hoops, football, and hockey action. At
DraftKings Sportsbook.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
In the season of giving, we're being gifted college football
and basketball, Pro football and basketball and pro hockey to
almost twenty four to seven, So many games every day,
so many opportunities to place your first bet. Try betting
on something simple like picking a team to win. Go
to the DraftKings Sportsbook app and place your bet.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
And here's a gift for all new customers.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
Bet five dollars to get one hundred and fifty dollars
in bonus bets if your bet wins. Download the DraftKings
sportsbook app and use code nerds. That's code nerds for
new customers to get one hundred and fifty dollars in
bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet just
five bucks the Holidays from DraftKings, the.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
Crown is yours.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in West Virginia,
visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In New York
call eight seven seven eight open wired text hope and
y four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut, help
is available for problem gambling call eight eight eight seven
eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org.
Please play responsibly on behalf of boothill, casino, wan resorting,

(42:24):
Kansas twenty one and over age varies by jurisdiction, VOYD
and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight
hours after issuance. See DKNG, dot co slash bball for
eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
My number six, I have Kevin Durant, and I considered
putting Kdie one spot higher than this because he's one
of the greatest scores of all time. I mean, to me,
a top two scorer of all time. He's obviously not
at his apex, but the guy is still unbelievable. This year,
giving you twenty six a night on sixty five percent
true shooting, has been incredible in the clutch. The Suns

(43:12):
have an eight to no clutch record when he plays.
He's averaged four point four clutch points per game on
sixty three percent shooting from the field, just raw field
goal percentage. It's unbelievable, and his superpower is the same
thing that it's always been.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Right.

Speaker 5 (43:25):
The guy is near seven foot, he handles like a guard,
and he can shoot over anybody at will as one
of the greatest jump shooters the game has ever seen.
And he also has incredible versatility because of his shooting
value as a spot up player. Right, He's another one
of those dudes who is incredibly valuable on and off
ball and really just would be like one of the

(43:48):
ultimate plug and play all time greats into any offense
in NBA history. We've seen that he's been efficient out
of isolation, he's been efficient out of pick and roll,
he's been relatively efficient as a post up play like.
The dude has just been an incredibly efficient monster, and
he is getting to the rim a bit more this
year and his playoff resume. In recent years it's been

(44:11):
something of a mixed bag. But you look at the
bottom line production since twenty twenty two, and he's giving
you twenty eight a night on fifty nine percent true shooting,
and you think about some of the bumps in the
road there, right, You think about how rough the twenty
twenty two series was against Boston, right when they were
just playing hyper physical wing defense on him with the

(44:32):
great defensive wing personnel that they have with Tatum and
Brown and company. And you think about the fact that
I think kd's series against Denver from twenty twenty three
kind of gets overrated because people like lump it in
and they're like, oh, Book and Katie.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Were out of this world. It was way more book like.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
I think Katie shot forty six percent from the field
twenty two percent from three in that series and also
struggled some with a very physical wing defender and Aaron
Gordon in that series. That's the one limitation that he
has to me when we have seen him go up
against those really physical, strong, athletic wing defenders. And just
the fact that he's not nearly the rim pressure he

(45:12):
used to be, and he's not the rim pressure that
some of these other great scoring wings or just great
scorers period are. That's the only thing that holds me
back from Katie being in the top five. But again,
look at the production he's carved out in spite of
those limitations. That's why I couldn't have him any lower
than this.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
I do have KD a few spots higher and a few,
oh not many. He's my number four guy. Okay, at
number five, another one of the hardest guys in my
opinion to rank on this list. I have Giannis and
the only reason Yannis is at number five because I

(45:50):
think I'd hear an argument honestly for Yannis all the
way up to number two. I can't have a guy
that's this limited as a shot creator at the end
of games any higher on my list. In my opinion,
and to the guys I have above him, KD has
been elite in clutch games. He's got four point four
clutch points per game on sixty three percent from the field.
The Suns are eight to zero in those games. He's

(46:10):
been awesome. I have Luca higher almost out of respect
for him, even though this has been a really bad
year and Giannis just doesn't have that limitation. But this
is the best, I think offensive version we've ever seen
of Giannis. In totality, I think this is arguably the
best scoring version of Yannis, purely when you factor in
the fact that he is almost completely eliminated three pointers

(46:33):
from his shot diet. He's attempting less than one a game.
He's expanded his mid range game. He's also, by far,
in my opinion, the best transition scorer in basketball. He's
averaging eight point five transition points per game Carson. He's
top ten in isolation points per game, transition points per game,
post points per game, and cutting points per game Insane.

(46:57):
He's top five in isolation, transition, and post volume for
all of those, and he's also been super efficient as
a scorer out of pick and roll with the ball
in his hands too right. Just give him a screen
and a little bit of space and he can get
to the rim at will. He's the most dominant force
in the league that we've seen since Shack, and he's

(47:19):
also averaging thirty three points per game on sixty three
percent true shooting like Giannis is ridiculous right now, It's
literally and I think this gets overblown sometimes. And I
think he's gotten better again with cutting out threes and
making mid range jumpers. The only reason he can't be
higher is I just think ball in his hands at
the end of a game, I wouldn't go to him,

(47:40):
I'd put it in somebody else's hands. Luckily, the Bucks
have a guy like that, they have Damian Lillard. I
also think Jannis has significant complimentary scoring value too, though,
when you think about what he can do in transition,
just getting out on the break as a cutter, what
he can do as a role man, right, I honestly
think the Milwaukee Bucks should utilize him even more, just

(48:00):
screening and rolling. But it is that late game shock creation,
and again I think it can get overblown sometimes. But
that's the only reason he's not higher, because everybody else
that is high on my list I can go to
late in the game, and I'm I trust them to
go hunt and find their shot.

Speaker 5 (48:19):
I don't think you're giving Gianness enough credit for his
development this year in terms of skill, I have you
honest at number four, and when we're talking about my
top three guys in terms of the half court mastery,
in terms of the combination of their ability to generate
really high value shots for themselves in and around the rim,
but then also to dominate you with jump shooting, right

(48:41):
those guys, Yeah, I'll give the edge over Giannis, even
though jannis Is production this regular season has been the
craziest in basketball basically versus Katie though man, I just
think the floor is too low with this version of Katie.
I still think that he's awesome, but again, I think
that we've seen him struggle in certain matchups with his
extreme alliance at times on that difficult shot making, and

(49:02):
this is a different Giannis in the half court. In fact,
Yannis has been more efficient individually on half court possessions
this season than Kevin Durant has been. You mention the
volume he's producing with as an isolation scorer, and the
efficiency has a pick and roll score, and the volume
is a post up score. The big thing to me
is just he's taking better shots than ever before, and

(49:23):
he's a better shot maker than ever before, significantly better.
I mean, this season he's forty five percent from mid range.
Last season he was thirty five percent. And there's just
a totally different level of comfort and confidence in him
rising up and taking these shots, and that includes right
in some big spots. It's a weapon he's never had
in his career. He's forty two percent on shots inside

(49:44):
the paint outside the restricted area. Last year that was
down at thirty seven percent. That's not a good number
per se, but for Yannis it's quite a good number.
And as you said, he doesn't take threes anymore. He's
taking point eight threes per game, so great. That's three
or four per pos sessions a game that a few
years ago he was just wasting the Now he's not.
So sixty percent of his shots are coming in the

(50:06):
restricted area. He makes seventy four percent of them. He's
the best downhill weapon restricted area scorer.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
In the NBA today.

Speaker 5 (50:15):
So I just think he's taken a real leap as
a score and an offensive player. I actually think even
though he's not the same defender he was a few
years ago, he's still very very good there and actually
has been quite good as of late.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Especially he's had.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Some really great defensive performances. This is to me, the
best honest that we've ever seen. And I just talked
about where would his peak rank all time. I did
a TikTok on it, and just to be fair to
everybody else, we were only using multiple year peaks. So
I don't think that we can call this based off
of twenty something games like a peak compared to some

(50:50):
of those other guys, because we would need a bigger sample.
But this is the version of Giannis that I would
want more than any other because I think he's that
much better offensively than he's ever been. Again, my top
three all are clearly superior half court scores. That is
the most valuable thing to me. But Yannis's floor is
a score is just too high right now. He's too
dominant physically when he also has this sort of skill

(51:14):
to compliment that he's never had before for me to
have him any lower than my four spot.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
I hear that argument, and I was just gonna add,
you were talking about the mid range point. Because of
how dominant Giannis is as a downhill threat, the defense
will concede that jump shot to him every single time,
So he's hitting it at a forty five percent clip.
Every single one of those he takes. Janni's basically has
time to sit there, you know, clip his toennails, clip

(51:41):
his fingernails, cook up some breakfast, eat it, you know,
take a nap. The defense is gonna give him that
every game. They are just letting him shoot that he
can take all the time in the world he wants,
because that's kind of you know, it's like we were
talking about with the Hackashac thing. It's like, all right, well,
what's the best outcome. Well, it's a free throw. It's
a really value we'll look too, you know, just sending

(52:01):
him to the line. All right, Well, the best defense
against Yannis is to concede a forty five percent jump shot.
It's not really a you know, a good thing for
the defense still, all things considered. But I do have
KD one spot above him at number four, and I
completely agree with you with the point that you made
about Kevin Durant's limitations. I think his floor is lower

(52:23):
than Gianness is at this point. But because I mean,
we've seen it. It's not just Aaron Gordon, right, McDaniel's
in the playoffs right in that Minnesota series. I think
KD can struggle with physicality more than a lot of
other guys on this list. But I would go to KD.
I would defer to KD in a big game spot

(52:44):
when I needed a tough look over Yannis.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
How about over forty eight minutes, Who's the better score
over forty eight minutes?

Speaker 4 (52:53):
It's Janis right, It's gotta be honest. I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
I mean KD brings me a supreme perimeter value to complimenting.
And Giannis has a great complimentary scoring skill set too,
with how he just can get to the rim. But
Katy's clutch, Man KT's clutch. Katie's also one hell of
a transition scorer too, Dude.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
He's yeah, He's certainly not Yannis level. I mean, Katie
absolutely is clutched. There's no denying that.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
In fact, I don't think that's a conversation who's the
better clutch shot maker. Obviously it's Kevin freaking Durant.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
That was the and that was the deciding factor for me, man,
It's it was really this was the toughest decision I
think I had on this list. Man.

Speaker 5 (53:34):
I think this version of Yannis has not only a
significantly higher floor. I also think he has the higher ceiling, right.
I mean, we saw him go off for fifty eight
earlier this year, and we are watching good argument defenses
right now. They just can't guard him, right. I Mean,
the Magic are trying to load up the paint, They've
got big front court personnel, and they still can't.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Guard him in the half court. That's a version of
Yannis we've never seen before.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
That is what I was gonna say. I think there
are more guys in a defensive archetype in the league
today that can match up against Kevin Durant. There's way
more of those guys than can match up with Giannis individually.
And that's a good argument.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
But and to me, this isn't the honest that we
saw in a twenty twenty three right when he really
just was a brutal watch in terms of halfport skill
and he couldn't make us free throws against the heat,
even though he did have thirty eight points in that game.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
It was a meltdown down the stretch.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
He's so much more skilled right now, and he does
have that touch shot making and some of that over
the top shot making that has always been missing from
his game, and he's just a superhero man. I mean,
he's gotten so much better this year, legitimately at thirty
years old.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
And I think it's incredible.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
I think the fact that both he and Jokic have
gotten better this year just blows my mind because they're
so far and away the two best players on the
planet and they're playing at such ridiculous levels.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
I agree, all right, so I have be honest at four.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
My number five, I already know is not on your list.
I have Joel Embiid here. What the hell do you
do with Joel Embiid? For me, as much as health
and availability as a huge red flag, the dude has
suited up this season, he played in the postseason last year.
It's not like Kawhi Leonard, where I think healthy Joel

(55:20):
Embiid is a full on myth. I think it's mostly
a fantasy. But I'm still gonna rank him on my list.
The reason Embid isn't higher, I'll start with, and this
is something that I've been harping on for years. He
is not somebody who's scoring. Skill set scales favorably to
the playoffs. Part of that is the reliance on getting
the line. He still gets to the line at a

(55:40):
good rate in the playoffs, but we have seen in
some postseasons his free throw numbers drop a little bit
per game. He's also specifically very reliant on his face
up jumpers right in some of his rhythm pull ups,
and those just have completely let him down in the postseason.
Last three playoffs, he's averaged point seven to five points

(56:03):
per jump shot. That's absolutely horrible, and so overall in
the playoffs since twenty twenty two, he's under twenty six
points per game on fifty eight percent true shooting. It
is impressive that with how critical we've all been of
mbating the playoffs and how bad he's been by his standards,
those are still the numbers, and he still does get
to the line at such a high rate that like

(56:25):
the efficiency ends up being better than the raw field
goal percentage of the effective field goal percentage would suggest.
And last year was the best he's been in the
playoffs as a jump shooter. It was the best he's
been in the regular season as a jump shooter too,
But he did in the playoffs coming off of the
meniscus injury with the bells palsy right like legitimately banged up,

(56:47):
tough circumstances, and he still was able to give you
I think it was thirty three a night in that
series on solid efficiency. So I have my concerns about
him in the postseason. On top of the concern about
his scoring arsenal that I mentioned, one thing that's always
limited him as a playoff player is his playmaking. Where
you see most of these years he has a negative

(57:08):
assist to turnover ratio. That's a problem with playoff Embiid,
but that's not really a scoring thing. I mean that's
more of an overall offensive limitation of his And in
the last two regular seasons, Man, this guy's giving you
almost thirty four points per game on sixty five percent
for shooting. Like, I don't trust him as much as
I do the top four. I think that they're all

(57:29):
better shot makers. I think that they're more versatile. I
think that they've held up significantly better in these playoff environments.
I'm gonna give all of them the edge over and
Giannis has had his issues in some playoff spots historically,
but with this newfound skill of his I.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Have more faith in him.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
I trust him more than Embiid in terms of scaling
to the postseason. But I just cannot deny Joel Embiid's
ceiling versus everybody below him. Katie is the only one
who I even considered because he's Kevin Durant, But like,
I hate to even say it because I'm so fed
up with Mbiid in so many ways, but like, he
has the ability to destroy everybody in a way that

(58:10):
nobody below him does because we've seen it in the
regular seasons, and he's just so overwhelming. He's so hard
to guard when he's right, Like a vast majority of
the NBA teams cannot guard him without fouling. And when
that jumper is falling, it's just an automatic source of
really good offense for him. He's almost impossible to guard
out of the post. Out of isolation. He has his

(58:33):
moments where he's really effective as a popper. I'm not
the highest on UNBID, I've never been the highest on EMBID.
I'm never going to be the highest on Embiid. But
I still think he's too dominant when he's right for
me to have him any lower than number five on
this list.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I understand that outside of his injuries and why I
would omitted him from my list, because that's obviously the
biggest reason is because I just don't trust Embiid to
be available in important situations, are available at all. Right,
it's always seemingly a flip of a coin, and unfortunately,
I think that might plague Embiid for the rest of
his career. Right, we keep talking about Kawhi Leonard and

(59:08):
his knee inflammation. That seems to be what's plaguing an Embiid.
And if history shows us anything, it's that this is
going to be a thing that's just gonna linger over
in Beat's head, likely until he retires, you know. And
so that's a large component of it. Another large component
is which you mentioned with his on ball scoring skill set,
how reliant he is on the face up jumper. Well,

(59:29):
put the nail in the coffin. For me was em
Beat's off ball value. And it's not like it's zero, right.
Embiid is a really good role man. He's excellent in
the two man game when you can involve him with
a guy like Tyrese Maxey. Right, but it is a
lot of Embiid standing around in ways that right, Booker's
moving and Kd's moving, and these guys are getting to

(59:51):
their looks, right, Embad's really stagnant and there are just
a lot of games where you watch Philadelphia and if
the ball isn't in his hands, just kind of standing
over there and by himself. That was the nail in
the coffin for why I don't have him bead on
this list. I think that's the tertiary concern to my
either big concerns, which is the face up jumper failing
and the injury concerns. But that is another concern of

(01:00:12):
mine with Embiid where I don't have it with other
guys and I just don't trust to all Embiid. I'm
done with him. He is officially in a category alone
with Kawhi Leonard and was Ion Williamson where I just
don't know if you're gonna be able to go on
game day, and that's important to me.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
The dungeon, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Dude, the no man's land, the sunken place is a
good way to put it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Thanks man, I just came up with that off the
top of my head. I'm a genius.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
All right, Let's move into the top three. Who's in
your three spot, Logan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
I've got Luka, Doncic and Luka to me as the
highest ceiling I think of any score on this list,
with the ease at which he can hunt and get
to all his looks, with how he can dominate and
take over a game with his pull up three point shooting.
Luca's also just a killer. Luca has that madman ability

(01:01:09):
where he can crank it up another level in the
playoffs if he really gets emotionally involved. But I also
think Luca in a lot of ways can shoot you
out of games and can settle for those pull up jumpers.
And it's really hard to gauge. I played with Luca
as low as number four on this list, but as
high as number two, and I settled in the middle

(01:01:29):
here at number three. Luca's third and pull up points
per game. This has been a down year for him
efficiency wise. He's only shooting forty five percent from the field,
thirty four percent from deep, and fifty six and a
half percent true shooting. He's shooting thirty five percent on
pull up jumpers and thirty three percent on pull up threes.
And I expect him to be way more efficient in

(01:01:49):
the playoffs. And it is those physical abilities that when
you look at a playoff environment like, Luca's so freaking strong.
He can just get to that elbow jumper, or he
can get on the low block and hunt looks when
he wants to. It's just is he going to on
a game to game basis? And we saw that in Boston,
where you know, it was a roller coaster ride with Luca.

(01:02:11):
He'd have a great series, and then he'd have an
ASS series, and then he'd have a great series, and
then he'd have an ASS series. And that's why I
couldn't put him over Sga. I know what I'm getting
every single game with SGA. I know Sga is gonna
hunt his looks. He's gonna get to them efficiently. He's
not gonna take bad, dumb shots, he's not gonna take
the offense out of rhythm, and I think most importantly,
he's not gonna shoot you out of a basketball game.

(01:02:33):
So well, I think Luca may have a higher ceiling
than any other scorer on this list. Arguably, Sga and
Jokic to me, just have higher floors, and that's why
I prefer them to Luca, and that's why he's at
number three. I know what Luca can do in a
playoff setting and in a lot of ways. Luca scares
me almost more than any other score on this list

(01:02:53):
than Jokic. But I know what bad comes with Luca,
and unfortunately I have to balance that out, and that's
why I can't have Luca any higher than number three.

Speaker 5 (01:03:02):
Right now, I have Luca number three as well. I
think it is extremely close between him and Sga. I mean,
I would have no issue with anybody having either one
of them above the other. This has him been the
best season from Luca. Right he's under twenty eight a
night on fifty seven percentury shooting slightly below that even

(01:03:24):
but last regular season he gave you almost thirty four
points per game on close to sixty two percent true shooting.
It was one of the great scoring regular seasons that
we've seen. He also wasn't his best in the playoffs
last year. I know that they went to the finals,
but I think that Luca did get a little bit
over hyped in that run when people started declaring he
was the best player in the world, because there was

(01:03:46):
a little bit of conflating the team's success with what
he was doing individually.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
Like by Luca's.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
Standards, that was up there for his worst offensive playoff
run that we've seen really overall in terms of individual
performs because he struggled so much against the Clippers and
he was so bad against the Celtics, so overall in
that run he ends up at twenty nine a game
on fifty five and a half percent through shooting. He

(01:04:13):
was banged up, of course, have to mention that, but
he also just went cold as a jump shooter at
various stretches in that Clippers series early on against the
Thunder before he got hot in the NBA Finals against
the Celtics, And that is an important component in this conversation,
the volatility that does come with Luca's reliance on the

(01:04:35):
pull up three, specifically because last year in the regular
season it was the best he's ever been as a
three point shooter, and it added another truly lethal dimension
to his game, where ironically in years past he wasn't
a great three point shooter in the regular season, but
then he would just have these unbelievable shooting displays in
the playoffs from beyond the arc, Right you think about

(01:04:56):
the Clippers series back in the day, twenty twenty one.
Last year was the best in terms of regular season
He's over thirty eight percent from three over fifty two
percent effective field goal percentage on pull up jumpers, but then.

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
In the playoffs it was more erratic.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
He was under forty seven percent effective field goal percentage,
which is not a particularly good number. This regular season,
he's under forty five percent effective field goal percentage on
pull up jumpers, which is pretty bad number for a
high volume pull up shooter. So that's the duality with
him versus SGA. Right, I do think that Luca has
the higher ceiling because of the volume of those pull

(01:05:33):
up threes, because when they are following at an elite clip, well,
he can explode for seventy on you, right, I mean,
he can just completely dominate games with volume scoring in
a way that I don't think anybody else in the
league can. And obviously he's not just like a total
boom or bust based on the pull up three, because

(01:05:55):
he is also so strong and he does have a
very complete scoring arsenal. I thought that he was excellent
from the mid range in the playoffs last year, and
I think he's a really good mid range shooter in general,
and we know that like he can bully you out
of the post when he wants to. He is just
about as good from float range as anybody in the sport.
He shoots forty nine percent inside the pain outside the

(01:06:16):
restricted area this season, so he has advantages compared to SGA. Absolutely,
he is stronger. That's a big thing when it comes
to the postseason, Right, your ability to impose yourself physically
does matter.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
Sga is an exception in the sense that he gets
to the spot on the floor that oftentimes is like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
Sort of reserve for the really strong guys.

Speaker 5 (01:06:40):
Right, you think it's the strong Kawhi Leonard, it's the
strong Luka Doncics, It's the strong Yokic who can just
will their way to that sort of short mid range.
Sga does it with his ability to change pace and
shift gears, and he's just unbelievably good from that range.
But I still think strength is a meaningful advantage for Luca,
and the ceiling that he does have any game is

(01:07:01):
his advantage. But SGA is just so consistently dominant in
that uber important area that I was just talking about
that we talked about with Brunson. Right when you get
to the playoffs, it's about consistently getting to shots that
are good enough that you can make at a good clip,
and the shots that nobody can ever take away are

(01:07:23):
the shots from the short midrange right. If you're an
incredible touch shot maker anywhere from like eight to fifteen
sixteen feet, if you can live there and consistently be efficient,
I just have the utmost faith in you. Think about
what SGA did against Dallas last year, where they are
consistently loading up the paint and they're helping hard on

(01:07:43):
all of his elbow drives, and they're roaming off of
shooters the bigs are and SGA was still able to
carve them up super efficiently with good volume because he
can't take away that sort of shot making. That's what
we've seen him do for a couple of years now,
and I just believe even that so deeply. So I
am in a favor the higher individual floor with SGA

(01:08:04):
compared to Luca.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Well said. I completely agree across the board. That's why
SGA is higher. To me, He's more reliable, Like I said,
I know what I'm getting right now. He's giving you
thirty points per game on sixty three percent true shooting.
He's number two, and isolation points per game with eight.
He's number three in pick and roll points per game
with ten point three, and he's number four in points

(01:08:29):
per game off pull ups with eleven point five. It's
a rock solid shot, Diet and Shay is as rock
solid as they come. I know what I'm getting with him.
I know he's gonna hunt and get to his looks.
That's not something that I have to worry about with SGA,
and that is why I prefer him. So I'll let
you sum that up really well, man. I think the
only criticism that you could have with either of these

(01:08:49):
guys is they don't have super high complimentary skill sets.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
These are guys that probably will basically derive all of
their offensive value from having the ball in their hands.
But when you're this great on ball, that doesn't really
matter to me.

Speaker 5 (01:09:04):
And the other thing that I do want to add
with SGA is I don't want to make it sound
like he's somebody who solely lives on that mid range
shot die right, because that would be a problem. He's
also second among all guards in restricted area makes, and
he finishes in the restricted area at a seventy three
percent clip, and he's fifth in in the paint non

(01:09:27):
restricted area makes. He shoots over fifty percent there, and
he's second in mid range makes and he shoots forty
nine percent there. All those ranks are among guards, So
he dominates that entire paint in short mid range area
because he does get to the rim as effectively as
any guard in basketball. I mean, that's why this dude
has more thirty point games than anybody in the sports
sense last season. He has more twenty five point games

(01:09:49):
than anybody in the sports sense last season. Like you'll
see the memes about oh, can't score forty man, but
the consistency is completely unmatched, and he's so fish and
on ball eighty fifth percentile pick and roll score, eighty
fifth percentile isolation score. We're now looking at three seasons,
Rasha is averaging almost thirty one points per game overall

(01:10:11):
on sixty three percent true shooting. And again I thought
that his scoring in last year's playoffs scaled significantly better
than Lucas and he averaged over thirty a night on
better than fifty eight percent true shooting because he has
that super dependable shot making and shot diet. And now
this year you have the added three point volume from

(01:10:33):
SGA where he's taking more than six threes a night,
And I do have mixed feelings about that because there
are certain games where it's just like, Shay, you're shooting
ninety percent inside the arc, but you're like.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
One of ten on threes, right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:50):
I mean, this happened a few games ago, this happened
in the Warriors game that I went to. Like, if
you defensively are able to get Shay to be taken
eight to ten pull up threes and he's cold, like,
that's a big win for you. That's a big win
because he's so great inside the arc. But I think overall,
it's another weapon that he has in his quiver, so

(01:11:13):
to speak. The fact that look at what he just
did to Dallas right where he goes five to nine
on pull up threes, Like he's capable of more explosive
performances there. And I do have faith in him striking
the right balance, not overdoing it with the pull up
shooting from deep, and I don't think that he has
I think six attempts a game is fine for him.
And I do think that he'll shoot, you know, at
about a thirty five percent clip on those attempts, and

(01:11:35):
I just think it makes him an even more versatile,
even more complete score. So overall, I think it's a
slight net positive that he has added a little bit
more of the volume three point shooting to his game,
because you're pairing that with a guard who shoots fifty
nine percent on twos logan. He is on pace to
become the first ever guard to score thirty points per

(01:11:56):
game in a season while shooting fifty nine percent or
better inside the arc. I just want his consistency in
a postseason, and that's what I'm gonna take.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
It's ridiculous, man, And I think for Sga and Jokic both,
and this isn't a disrespectful shot at Luca, I think
they're harder guys to guard. I think the archetype is
harder to find to guard guys like that because of
SGA's changing pace and because he can kill you from
every single level, right, Like Luca's super strong. But I
think a guy like lou Dort matches up really well

(01:12:28):
with him, right, And lou Dort's an outlier because he's
one of the best perimeter defenders on the planet and
he has such a strong base and he's such a
strong guy. But I think there are more guys like
that where SGA with his change in pace, just hard
to stay in front.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
Of, incredibly hard to stay in front of. I don't
know if I totally agree. I mean, I think it's
incredibly difficult to find an archetype who can guard either
one of them. And as good as Lou has been
on Luca, I do think we also have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:12:55):
I mean, like in that head to head matchup, they've
blitzed the shit out of him, They've done everything they
can to force the ball out of.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
And Dallas also had to do that against SGA. I agree,
Luca can serve buckets to anybody, right, Like.

Speaker 5 (01:13:06):
It's a great point, though, I mean SGA was in
his sort of nightmare offensive situation with how the guys
around him were shooting, and how Dallas was guarding him
and guarding them as a team, and even as everybody
else around him struggled, SJA was amazing as a scorer
in that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Still got his And I think that also applies to
Jokic too, Right there are guys that can physically match
up with Jokic, but there's no one on the planet
who can guard him. Nobody. You can't point to anybody
in the league the best offender on the planet. That's crazy,

(01:13:41):
and it's just a total package. Like on the lower block,
you can go to him and he's the strongest guy
in the league, and he's got impeccable footwork. He's got
the best touch in the league of anybody. And with
that right, the only criticism that you could have had
about Jokis last year was a three point shooting. So
what's your argument now, he's shooting fifty percent from deep.

(01:14:02):
He's given you thirty to a night on sixty five
percent true shooting. He's efficient basically across all play types.
He's the most he's the best scoring post up man
in the league in terms of volume, and he does
have a complimentary skill set too, where he can thrive
alongside other guys as a role guy. And that's the

(01:14:23):
big distinction to me between A Luca and SGA is
that Jokic does have that value. And I'll be clear
about something. I don't think it's close. Because of how
strong and how great his touch is in the footwork,
I think he's better as an individual scorer than either
of those guys and how we can initiate from the perimeter.
But when you combine that with the fact that he
does have this complimentary skill set that could coexist. Right,

(01:14:47):
Russell Westbrook is thriving alongside with Jokic as his second
guy right when they're on the floor together, and that
to me just puts Jokic over the top and on
a completely different level where we can talk about him
in these historical context I know you've been saying for
a long time that he's the greatest offensive player and ever, right,

(01:15:08):
And we've seen a friend of the show. I saw
Jason of Hoops tonight say that he thought that Jokic
was slowly becoming the greatest offensive player of all time.
It is becoming a little bit ridiculous, and right, we've
been singing his praises for a while. I'm I'll be
honest with you, guys. I've frankly been really upset with

(01:15:28):
myself since we did the Top ten Peaks episode that
I didn't have Yokic on my list. I had a dream,
I told you, Carson, Yeah, I had a dream where
I was like Jokic's protege or something.

Speaker 4 (01:15:42):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
I think it was my subconscious eating away at me
and it manifested itself.

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
You will dream about Nicole Omelly man, I don't believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
I think you're capping.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Well, I'm speaking my truth and you're not making me
feel hurt.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
But anyways, yes, I'm glad that you've had a revelation
because I thought that was a little bit crazy that
he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Have We should do an entire podcast episode on that, Carson.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
On our Top ten peaks. So we just did that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Oh no, I was saying your sexual dream about Nicolos.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
Oh, it's something I'd rather not talk about in public.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Okay, I thought we could just explore that further.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
No, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:16:13):
It's already been scored with my thoughts quite intensely. Is
there anything else you want to say about Yokic scoring?

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
He bucket, there's no holes. He's unstoppable. There's no answer
to Jokic, bro like.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
There's look gold glaze fifteen yards for glazing. I've been saying.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
Jokic is the best scorer in basketball for a few years,
and historically that's a take that's gotten a lot of
blowback because he hasn't had the regular season volume. But
my contention has always been regular season volume is not
the best indicator of a truly elite score. To me,
it's who is the hardest to stop when they want

(01:16:56):
to score, and that's been Niko Jolkic for several years.
Who was the best in the postseason right where we
truly judge your metal, who can get to their spots
at will and who can be hyper efficient and score
with elite volume in those environments. That's always been Nikola Jokic.
So that's why he's been my answer. But now I

(01:17:16):
think it's starting to become much more of the consensus
that he's the best scorer in basketball because I put
out a poll on my Twitter a few days ago
and like seventy five percent of people agreed that he was,
whereas last year. I think maybe after we did our
Top ten Scorers episode last season, I put out a
poll on YouTube and it was like eleven percent of
people who said that Jokic was the best scorer.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
So I get it. Man.

Speaker 5 (01:17:38):
When you see a guy go out there and he's
averaging thirty two point three on sixty five percent through shooting,
as Jokic is doing this year, if that's what moves
the needle for you, I understand it. And the big
development this year has just been the absolutely elite jump shooting.
Nikola Jokic is averaging one point three to five points

(01:17:59):
per jump shot. Now, that is a better number, actually
a significantly better number than twenty sixteen Steph Curry. It
is absolutely unfathomable. In the even crazier stat he's shooting
fifty percent from deep right, but he also puts up
more heaves than anybody in basketball. He doesn't care. Right
at the end of a quarter, he's always gonna be

(01:18:20):
the one who's shot, putting it from eighty feet if
you take away his heaves. This season, he's shooting almost
fifty five percent on actual three point attempts, like just
normal half court three point attempts.

Speaker 4 (01:18:32):
It's absolutely absurd.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
And so he's averaging one point three points per spot up,
which is ridiculous. He's averaging almost one point five points
per role that includes pops, where he has just been absurd.

Speaker 4 (01:18:45):
And you mentioned the two man game with.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Russ right now, I think he and Russ have a
better two man game than him and Jamal because I
think that Russ does a better job of getting downhill
and I think Russ does a significantly better job of
finding him with those pocket passes, and Jamal has just
missed him as a popper so many times this year
to instead put up like a really tough mid range
pull up. Jamal Murray has got to get it figured out, man.

(01:19:07):
But Jokis is doing everything he possibly can to cover
up for Jamal's shortcomings. I mean, for God's sakes, Jokis
is one hundred and four points over the last two games.
So I think he does have phenomenal versatility with what
he does as a jump shooter, right, I mean, he's
one of the smartest cutting bigs in basketball, just in
terms of the give and go right, and you'll see

(01:19:27):
the Nuggets run iverson cuts for him. And his touch
finishing is so phenomenal wherever he catches the ball within
ten feet of the rim off of a cut and
he moves without the ball well, right, you see him
curling around screens as a jump shooter as well. He
does all this stuff. He's averaging I already said that,
but almost one point five points per role. I mean
that is just an absolutely comical number. So it is

(01:19:50):
an incredibly well rounded skill set. He's been super effective
as a pick and roll ball handler, running inverted pick
and roll scores with seventy first percentile efficiency. But simply put,
bottom line, the reason that he is number one for
me is because of the fact that at will, he
just gets to a more efficient shot than anybody else
can in basketball, specifically out of the post. A Niko

(01:20:11):
Ajokic post up is to me the most unguardable play
type in NBA history. And the crazy thing is this year,
as he's scoring over thirty two points per game on
sixty five percent true shooting, he hasn't had his normal
otherworldly touch. I mean, he's still been phenomenal, but he's
shooting sixty five percent in the restricted area, fifty five

(01:20:33):
percent in the paint outside the restricted area. That's a
great number, but that's compared to sixty two percent inside
the paint outside the restricted area last year, which is
much more normal for him, in seventy two percent inside
the restricted area last year. So those are numbers that
he's sustained for years, and there's no reason to think
he won't bounce back to them. And while I do

(01:20:54):
think he's due for some regression as a jump shooter,
I think he's due for as much, if not more,
positive regression as a touch shot maker. So I think
that he can maintain this volume in efficiency as long
as he wants to, and.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
Nobody's been better in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (01:21:12):
Nobody has matched his combination of volume and efficiency since
twenty twenty one. In the postseason, he averages thirty points
per game on sixty two percent through shooting. The only
guy who can approach that volume is Luca and he
doesn't have nearly that sort of playoff efficiency. Yokic is
built to thrive there because he is so unbelievably strong,
and because he dominates that key area that we've been

(01:21:34):
talking about for so long that nobody can take away
that range inside the paint, outside the restricted area, short
mid range, all of that. He's just unstoppable. And when
he's aggressive, as he always has been in the playoffs
and as he has been more than ever before in
this regular season, he unequivocally has the highest floor as

(01:21:55):
a scorer in the NBA.

Speaker 4 (01:21:56):
He's also the guy I want most in the clutch.

Speaker 5 (01:21:58):
I mean we've seen that this year right where if
you can get him on an island on a post up, again,
these are sixty five percent shots for him, They are automatic.
Nobody else can just will themselves to that one on
one in the NBA. Completely unstoppable, completely unguardable. I actually
think he's pretty clearly the best score in the NBA
when you consider all of the factors right, situationally, versatility, volume, efficiency,

(01:22:25):
scaling to the playoffs especially, and just having the most
unstoppable route to buckets in the NBA. I understand it's
not everybody's favorite to watch, but I don't think you
can deny it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
How could it not be? Man? I love watching.

Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
Real quick, who's your favorite scorer to watch? My favorite artist?
But I do love watching.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
But Shae also plays basketball like a ballerina. Man. He
is literally he's a gazelle.

Speaker 5 (01:22:55):
His body control is unbelievable and the number of counters.
That's another thing with Shay, Right, you look at the
play types and he's very bal dominant with the pick
and roll in the isolation, but the number of things
that he can do right, the ability to spin, the
ability to use his pivot foot right, the ability to
use fakes. He just is a master of creating slivers

(01:23:19):
of separation in so many different ways.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
And Yokic is too. It's different.

Speaker 5 (01:23:23):
But again, when you talk about I mean mastery of
the footwork aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:27):
The fakes.

Speaker 5 (01:23:28):
Nobody is better than Yokich out of the post at
that on top of the fact that nobody is close
to his touch in NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
History, And it's everywhere on the court too, right, Like
with it's just elegant. And the thing too, is it's
not just aesthetically pleasing, but it's how effective it is,
right Because when you're thinking about like most aesthetically pleasing scorers, right,
you might go to a Kobe or a DeMar DeRozan, Right,
those guys are buttersmooth the watch. And I'm not denigrating

(01:23:56):
either of those guys's games by making this comp but
Shaye does it in a way that legitimately creates spaces
and creates just elite shot quality and looks in a
different way. In my opinion, it's not just pretty, but
it's really effective too. I think also up there, i'd
have to have Steph a Steph heater is kind of
just uniquely unlike anything else. I'd also say Jalen Brunson.

(01:24:20):
I think Jalen Brunton plays such a beautiful brand of basketball.
The way he hunts downhill like it just makes me
I feel like a proud dad watching Jalen Brunton play
man like, Yeah, I feel like I feel like Rick Brunson.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
Katie. You gotta have Katie in there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
For Katie's a good shout. Those are the top, those
are the upper echelon to me. The only thing I
was gonna add you hit it.

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
Though.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
On Jokic, the clutch aspect is the fact that laden games,
if you're trailing, it doesn't matter. Right, say there's four
minutes left in a game and you're down ten, the
Nuggets are gonna dump the ball to Jokic on the
low block every single possession until he wheels them back
into the basketball game. And we this year it's it's
remarkable and it's unstoppable. There's nothing that the defense can

(01:25:05):
do to stop it. So, uh yeah, but who's a
Are there any other shouts for favorite scores to watch
any guys that I didn't mention.

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
I actually really like watching kat which is maybe a
little bit controversial.

Speaker 4 (01:25:19):
I love watching Book. I've always loved watching Book.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
The one more thing I'll add with Jokic is his
raw tru shooting percentage doesn't even tell the full story
of how efficient he is, because, as we've talked about before,
nobody is better at rebounding their own misses.

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):
I mean close to.

Speaker 5 (01:25:36):
It's between fifteen and twenty percent, I believe of Jokic's
own misses. He rebounds and then puts back up right away.
So add a few points to that true using percentage,
and then you're in just a completely unrivaled historical territory.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
He's also top five in putback points per game this
year too, yeah, top five and cutting points per game.

Speaker 5 (01:25:53):
It's and so many of those putbacks are off his
own misses, which means effectively, the first miss doesn't matter
at all. Right, it's one possession. The same guy shot
and scored.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Angel man, I swear.

Speaker 5 (01:26:06):
I mean, listen, man, if you score the putback, then
what do you care about the That's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Why Andre Drummond's the goat man, I swear.

Speaker 4 (01:26:15):
Logan, I feel like you're missing.

Speaker 5 (01:26:16):
The part where I say score off the putback. You
have to actually score off the putback. Andre Drummond would
just miss four times and then put up a three
that misses.

Speaker 4 (01:26:25):
By eight feet.

Speaker 5 (01:26:27):
I feel like we've basically covered it all with the
Jokic glaze.

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Is there anything else that I wanted to say? I
think we got it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:34):
He's also getting the line a little bit more this year,
but he's also putting up more shots than ever. He's
just been more aggressive than ever. You can't deny that
level of physical bullyball, with that level of skill and
that level of touch. That to me is what makes
Yokic one of the greatest scorers of all time. Man,
I mean, legitimately, that's an interesting conversation to have. But like,

(01:26:55):
how many dudes in NBA history are just tougher to
stop from getting a bucket than Yoki?

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Not many, Shack maybe Wilt, Yeah, but like Shack even doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:08):
I wouldn't say that Shack is a better score than you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
Yeah, I agree though, because I mean even Shaq, like
he can't do it from everywhere on the floor.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
Yo. Versatility, Yeah, the versatility is the difference, man.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
I mean MJ probably right, Oh absolutely, MJ.

Speaker 5 (01:27:21):
Well, I think that that's kind of a no brainer.
But I don't think that there's many scoring peaks higher.
You know, Kareem I would say is a higher scoring peak.
It's a pretty short list.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Lebron, Jerry Stackhouse.

Speaker 4 (01:27:38):
Oh well, you gotta have Jerry Stackhouse of course.

Speaker 5 (01:27:40):
All right, any more honorable mentions anybody who we didn't
give a shout to that you want to show a
little bit of love.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Yeah, So Kyrie and Steph I think were my two
toughest cuts.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
Kyrie above Steph. No, he fell for it. He's a
flat earther. He fell for the handle.

Speaker 5 (01:28:01):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Yeah, the aesthetics might have gotten me there, and then
I didn't have as much trouble leaving this guy off
with his offensive inconsistencies. But I do think he deserves
an honorable mention with how he's been playing this year,
and that's Anthony Davis. Davis is at twenty eight points
per game on sixty one percent true shooting, and over
the last two seasons, he's never been more consistent than
he ever has been before. And so you know, I

(01:28:24):
thought long and hard, and even though he's been more
consistent there everybody basically above him, I just trust more
where you know, eighties touch could be off on a
game and he's not hitting as much of those over
the shoulder fadeaways, right, or he's not imposing himself as
much as I'd like, and that's the only reason he

(01:28:45):
was off. But Davis, I don't nearly worry about that
as much as I would have, you know, three or
four years ago. I think this is a different Anthony Davis.
And he's also been way more available. I think Anthony
Davis has played five percent, yeah, of games over the
last two years, like something ridiculous like that. So, uh yeah,

(01:29:06):
AD wasn't as tough as a cut as the other guys,
but I do think he deserves a shout.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
Ad was a tough cut for me too, I mean,
especially got off to such an unbelievable start to the
year offensively, and even though he got into a little
bit of a slump, he's had a monster performance since then.
I mean the lost to Atlanta, he was pretty crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
At the end of the day.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
Though, I don't think Ad is a better scorer than Kat,
and I was like, if Kat's not going to be
on my list, I don't think I can have AD
on my list. Cat is an unreal scorer, man, He's
an unbelievable score isolation post up, shooting almost forty five
percent from three this year, Trailer and Transition, you name it,
man as a score, Cat and pretty much Man. There

(01:29:49):
ultimately were just perimeter players who I felt were probably
a little bit more valuable as scores overall than Kat,
who could create more for themselves. That's where I did
give a slight edge to a Donovan Mitchell, and he
was probably my toughest cut, but Kat was right up
there and still on the outskirts of this conversation. I

(01:30:09):
will say I considered Lebron. He didn't make a very
compelling case to me. But what we've seen from him,
like in the playoffs, even just last year, or down
the stretch of last year, I think he's taken a
bit of a step back. But I'm also not gonna
just totally write him off and say he doesn't belong
anywhere near these conversations.

Speaker 4 (01:30:26):
One more yokic glaze.

Speaker 5 (01:30:28):
There's one more thing that I wanted to say, the
economy of the touches Logan. He touches the ball a
million times per game, but he's so efficient with every touch,
not just in terms of his literal scoring efficiency, but
also in terms of how purposeful, how intentional every touch is.
The decisiveness, right, I mean, the ball is not going
to stick with him, and if it does, it's probably

(01:30:49):
going to be a back down where he's either going
to draw a second defender or he's just going to
score easily if they don't send help. So there you go,
last Jokic glaze of the day. But how can you
not man with what he's doing?

Speaker 4 (01:30:59):
And I just want to say, I think we're in for.

Speaker 5 (01:31:02):
An amazing, amazing MVP race this year, which has just
become the norm in recent seasons. But with what Jokic
is doing, with what Yiannis is doing, and with what
SGA is doing on an amazing team, like, I don't
think you can dismiss SGA in this race. I understand
that individually hasn't been as dominant as the other two,
but like, if we look at the historical standard, when

(01:31:23):
you're on the one seed, when you're on by far
the best team, and you've been a top three player
in basketball this season like SGA has been, you at
least have to be in the conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
And I've seen that conversation start to pick up, and
he belongs in there.

Speaker 5 (01:31:36):
Jokic and Yannis have definitely been the two best players,
but SGA has also been unbelievable. There you have it, folks,
a little bit insight into my thoughts on the early
season MVP race and all of our thoughts on the
top ten scorers in basketball. Did not talk about Bill
Belichick becoming the unc football coach, but Logan made a
TikTok about that. So if you want more of our

(01:31:57):
thoughts on all sorts of topics, and if you want
to see our trivia content, our short form trivia videos,
follow us across social media TikTok and Instagram at nerd Sech,
Twitter at nerd Underscore Sech. It's all there, along with
graphics and clips from the show. Also, if you want
more of our analysis, I just did a video yesterday
on Jaron Jackson Junior and the incredible season that he's

(01:32:19):
been having on our YouTube channel. So we don't just
have our full shows here. We have our film breakdowns
on the NBA and NFL that you can find and
you can listen to all of our full shows across
all audio platforms. You can also join our discord if
you want. The link to that is at the link
tree across our social media bios, and you can check
out our merch if you want. That is at Breakingtea

(01:32:40):
dot com. It's also linked in our link tree. Big
weekend of football coming, Logan, give me your gut feeling
for Steelers Eagles and Bill's lines and then we'll get
out of here for real.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
My hottest take is that Jamis Winston upsets the Chiefs
in a snowy game. He just cranks it up and
goes dumb on Kansas City.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
WHOA.

Speaker 1 (01:32:59):
That's my trap game of the year, Cleveland against Kansas City,
especially if it snows, because I don't know, man, Jamis
is gonna get all riled up. He's gonna get that
Christmas spirit in him, and he's gonna get the spirit
of Saint nicoing it's over for Kansas City. Who do
the Bill's got Bill's Lions? Yeah? Uh, close game, Josh

(01:33:23):
Allen keeps it close. I think Monty and Gibbs probably
run all over the Bills defense. I think they're like
twenty six and rushing yards per attempt defensively this year.
So gimme Detroit. I'll say, I think it's a bit
of a shootout. I'll go thirty one, twenty seven, something
like that, and then I'm gonna take Pittsburgh over Philly.

(01:33:48):
I'll say twenty to seventeen.

Speaker 4 (01:33:51):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:33:53):
I'm gonna go Philly over Pittsburgh by that exact same score, though,
I think that that is a defensive dogfighting.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:34:00):
I can definitely see a world in which Hurts can't
lead the drive that he needs to and Pittsburgh takes
that one.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
There's just some general offensive time. There's just some general
dysfunction that that I don't like with with Philly. That
drama that's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:34:12):
The drama. H oh, the drama.

Speaker 5 (01:34:14):
Sure, I already said this on the end of our
Sunday show, but I'm taking the Lions thirty eight to
thirty five. I understand that's a comically high score to predict.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
Damn.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Yeah, I thought I was with these two offenses.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Yeah, I thought I was going high.

Speaker 5 (01:34:28):
I am expecting almost no stops. I think the Lions
are going to run the ball down.

Speaker 4 (01:34:34):
The Bill's throats.

Speaker 5 (01:34:35):
I think that Josh is going to get what he
wants offensively. But I just think it's a little bit
of an easier formula for Detroit because I think they're
going to be so dominant in the trenches against a
Bills run defense that has not been good. Would absolutely
love for it to go the other way. But also
I think if one team is going to blow the
other out, I think it's much more likely that it's

(01:34:56):
Detroit who is just so physically dominant that they pull
away if it comes down to.

Speaker 4 (01:35:01):
Clutch drive versus clutch drive, Like I trust Josh.

Speaker 5 (01:35:05):
Moore for sure. Detroit's a really great team. I think
they're the best team in football. So I'll take them
to win a shootout. Now we're done for real. Bet
you didn't expect that little treat. That's our little Nerd
Sash Advent calendar, a little a little treat for you
guys before you go. And with that, as always, I've
been Carson Brabber

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
I have been Logan Camden and this was Nerd Sash

All Episodes

Nerd Sesh - Top 10 Scorers

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Breakfast Club

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nerd Sesh - Top 10 Scorers