Nerd Sesh x Rusty Bucketz - Lakers & Warriors title threats? Boston among GOAT teams? - The Volume

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. No, Oh my god, how could he do that?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
What Charles Darwin? The nerves is where it's at.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome everybody back into Nerd Sash. As always, I'm Carson Breber,
and alongside me is Logan Camden, and today we are
joined by a very special guest, Rusty Buckets aka Jacob,
first time on the pod. We're very very excited to
have you. How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm doing good, just got out of bed, excellent. Nothing
to complain about yet.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
That's great. Well, hopefully we don't give you too much
to complain about. But if I know Logan Camden, he
will am I right, Logan O bruh. You know, Logan,
I think I need to make more of a concerted
effort to check in on you at the beginning of
every because every other podcast they do with sort of
mandatory how are you? How you do? And I never
ask you. I just steam early you and we start
talking about basketball.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
That's how we're that's how we're supposed to do it.
And I would just say chillin' if you ask me anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
That's a good point. That's a good point. Man. All right,
Well we are going to talk some basketball today, and
I think let's just start by talking about the team
that we've been talking about a lot recently, because obviously
they were part of not just the biggest story this season,
but the biggest trade in NBA history, getting Luka Doncic,
and they have been rolling ever since. The Lakers have

(01:36):
just been reeling off wins against a number of quality
teams as of Layton. They did it again last night
beating the Knicks on national TVs. So Jacob, I'll start
with you, do you think the Lakers are a top
two team in.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
The West as of right now. I've kind of been
going back and forth between them and the Golden State Warriors.
I feel like the Weirdly enough, the Lakers actually kind
of have a better supporting cast, and obviously they have
the best players, so I've kind of been leaning them.
It kind of is dependent on how well the defense

(02:12):
they've been playing lately holds up, because I do fear
like I feel like we've seen defensive schemes similar to
what JJ Reddick's been doing that last for a little
bit and then teams kind of figure it out. So
I'm trying to determine if this is gimmicky in any
kind of way, or if it's very very real and

(02:32):
it can translate to the postseason. If that's the case,
if they can manage to be that good defensively and
to have the trio of Luca Lebron and Austin Reeves offensively,
then I think they'd have to be better than the
Warriors at that point. But I also feel like if
you catch Jimmy and Steph like both having a good series,
they can beat anybody.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
I think I tend to agree with that.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I'm a little bit higher on the Lakers just because
of how confident I am in this offense. I think
they have an argument for having the best top three
offensive players of any team in basketball. And I mean
that's why I think they are in my two spot
concretely behind Oklahoma City one.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
They've been on one hell of a run lately.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Like you mentioned, they've won eight straight now after this
overtime victory against New York. But these are two of
the greatest offensive basketball players in NBA history, two of
the greatest scorers and playmakers ever, and two of the
great enhancers and amplifiers. And you see this every single night,
the quality of shots that are able to consistently manufacture

(03:35):
on the offensive end, And like, that's kind of where
I come down with la Is. Nobody has a Lucas stopper.
Nobody has a Lebron stopper. You know, you have limitters
to these guys, You have guys that can maybe make
it hard on their life. There's just not a good
or simple answer to this offensive problem. And I don't
think a team has two guys that can really legitimately

(03:57):
slow them down. Lebron looks completely rejuvenated now that Luca
is in here and is giving full effort. Defensively, the
defense and the role players are playing their asses off.
They have the number three defensive rating with Luca. I
do think you point out a good concern. I wonder
if there's a formula that a team will implement that
exposes this defense to an extent. But I also wonder

(04:20):
how much does it really matter because of how great
this offense is going to be. Like, they shoot a
ton of threes, The biggest difference to me is just
how how they can blow teams out of the water.
Now with this offense, they went from shooting thirty three
threes a night with Anthony Davis that number is up
to forty three a night.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
With Luka Doncic, they're making three more threes, that's exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
And Luca just makes life so much easier for everybody.
I mean, I think back to that Pelicans game. They
made eight threes in the first quarter and we're dogging
them from the jump. Like, so, I do have concerns
about the defense, and I think that is the question
about this team.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
See and rusty, but damn man.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Like, I also think that this Lakers team has a superpower,
and that superpower.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Is this amazing dominant offense. In the combined prowess of
Lebron and Luca.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
The offense is undeniable. I have no concerns about that,
especially like I feel like Lebron is showing just how
damn talented of an off ball player he's always been,
which a lot of people have always disrespected historically. But
that didn't surprise me at all. I saw a lot
of people when the trade went down, like there's only

(05:34):
one ball, how are Luca and Lebron going to play together?
It's like the Lebron hasn't been taking the ball up
the floor every possession in like four years. Also, Austin
Reeves benefits so much from those two guys, even if
his numbers have technically dipped a little bit because his
February run was so insane. Interesting choice of months to

(05:55):
do that, but whatever. He benefits so much from Lebron
and Luca having as much attention as they have because
when they're all on the floor, you have to put
your third best defender on Austin Reeves. That is a
hell of a problem to have. So the defense being
like very wing centric, everybody switching a lot, everybody playing

(06:18):
passing lanes super super aggressively. I feel like we even
saw that against the Denver Nuggets from the Lakers when
they were in the conference finals in twenty twenty three,
and that didn't work at all. So I don't know,
I need to see it for a longer period of time.
The offense is undeniable, but I think they're only like

(06:39):
truly capable of hanging with Oka see if the defense
is also there. Also, the big question beyond that is
that everybody else of it all, everybody beyond your three
like it's fine. There's there's a couple of guys who
are pretty good, but by no means it's an ideal
corps of role players.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, and I think that is the reason that it's
not clear that the Lakers are the second team in
the West. And I think the defense as well. It
clearly has surpassed my expectations. I have been wildly impressed
by what they've done defensively. I thought that they were
going to be a bottom ten sort of defense after
the Luca trade. There's never a question that they'd be

(07:18):
a dominant offense. But they've been the number one defense
in this seven game win streak, and like, they have
been really really impressive. Now you talk about maybe teams
figuring some of this stuff out, I think if they
run it back against Denver and they do the same
defensive strategy, which they will at being fronting Yolkic basically
all game, doubling him consistently off ball, doubling and tripling

(07:41):
him off the catch, this stuff that now we've seen
multiple teams do. Since, I think that there are a
number of counters that the Nuggets can turn to. I
think they can have Yolkic run more inverted pick and roll.
I think they can use him as a screen or
more to free up Murray. I think that also they
can just be better about their spacing. I think that
they can and shoot better. MPJ has been slumping, like

(08:03):
I've actually been doing a really deep dive into the
coverage that Yokic has been seeing so much, and my
take is it's a really good strategy, Like it makes
a ton of sense to not guard Russell Westbrook and
Christian Brown and deny Yokic touches as much as possible.
That is true, it's a very good strategy, but it
still is not unsolvable, and I think that the more
the Nuggets see it, they'll get better against it. So

(08:24):
for that specific matchup, I think that the Lakers found
the best answer they possibly could have, and it's a
way better answer than I thought they were capable of
post Anthony Davis defensively. But it's not necessarily fool proof
or like a permanent solution to the extent that we
saw two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Just specific to the Nuggets matchup, I don't think there's
such thing as a full proof defensive skin against Nicola Jokic.
I remember when they were doing that something similar in
the twenty twenty three Lesson Conference Finals. A big thing
that came of that is like every time the double
would come from Jokic, they would have like Aaron Gordon
or Michael Porter Junior at the exact time. So it's

(09:01):
like the moment that the double comes and open shots there.
So I wouldn't be surprised if Denver still figured them out.
Denver's probably also right there with the Lakers and the Warriors,
at least for me. But uh, yeah, I don't know.
They're kind of weird. They're always a little there's always
slightly off to me when it seems like they should

(09:21):
be fine and then they're not.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, that's kind of been the theme of the season.
Like they've had some high highs and like the personnel
is clearly there. Obviously they've lost talent from the title
team two years ago, but they've also gained some things.
And then you look at some of the big games
and they just don't show up defensively. They don't compete
enough there. And I think that this is still a

(09:45):
great offense. It's the number two offensive basketball and they have,
in my opinion, the best offensive player ever. So like that,
the fact that they can play with more pace, they
have so much cutting, they can produce great offensive results.
But we're gonna see teams just continue to test their
lack of shooting over and over again. And you mention
the ability to counter teams loading up on Jokic with

(10:05):
their cutting. We're just seeing a more extreme version of
teams not just selling out to stop Jokic, but packing
the paint entirely to stop those cutting opportunities too. And
literally just say Christian Brown and Russell Westbrook, we do
not care about your existence if you're gonna be out
on the perimeter whatsoever. But I do think that you
get Aaron Gordon back who played in the Lakers game

(10:26):
but then hasn't played in the last couple of games
that they've been seeing that coverage, and he's such a
great dunker spot target. He has such good chemistry with Jokic.
It'll get better. And I do think that Denver is
still definitely the other team in the top three out
West for me, because I think that their offense is
that great and I think that they're capable of defending
at a decent level. But the reason that I felt

(10:49):
pretty strongly a couple weeks ago that Denver was better
than the Lakers was that I didn't think that the
Lakers were going to be defending at a significantly higher
level than Denis and they are they are. I mean,
they've been super impressive there and Jackson Hayes is the
lone big He's been pretty good defensively, Like in this

(11:10):
recent stretch, Ray Jamison like that, Okay, yeah, Trey's not
playing in the playoffs, man, but shout out to Trey.
He plays his ass off. He does play his ass off.
But Hayes has been effective is that rim protector and
he can switch decently well. And the small ball lineups
have also been really effective for them, And.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
In this win, that's the first thing that stood out
to me the moment the trade went down, as I'm like,
lucas a great rebounder, Lebron's a great rebounder, Luca plays
point guard, so like, there's gonna be enough rebounding and
size out of this group that it will work. And
I think small ball is something they're going to lean
on more and more in the postseason, just because Jackson

(11:49):
Hayes is very limited.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I totally agree, and I think that their scariest lineup
to me is when they go Luca Reeves Lebron DFS Vandal,
because then you have your two bad defenders on the floor,
and you have your three best offensive players on the floor,
you have no concerns about Vando's offensive limitations because he's
basically just playing the five for you. I didn't think
those lineups would be as good defensively as they've been

(12:14):
because I still worried about Yeah, they have good size
for a small ball group, but I also thought that's
going to be a slower small ball group with Reeves
and Luca on the perimeter, and Lebron has been so
active defensively and Luca, dude, I mean, Luca's averaging two
steals a game, He's getting deflections consistently, He's using his
size and length as effectively as he can defensively.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
I have always felt like the defense thing with Luca
was overblown. I think people look at generational talents and
they find the one thing that they don't do super
great and just harp on that constantly. But like Luca
has had multiple times in his career where he was
fine and even good as a defensive player. I think

(12:59):
the twenty twenty four finals had a lot of ugly
moments and that really stuck to people's memory. But he
was playing with like four damn injuries in that series,
carrying the offensive load even despite that. So it's like, yeah,
I don't blame him for getting blown by a couple
of times under those conditions. So I'm not really shocked

(13:19):
that Luca's playing defense the way he is. I'm more
shocked that Lebron is because the man is forty And
I'm like, so, you're just you can just casually pick
up being an elite defender whenever you feel like it.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
That's crazy in big spots too, I mean, game changing
plays like chase down blocks in the clutch.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's he's not He's always been able to do that.
I mean he's always like he'll have a defensive moment
every game, but it's not just the moments now it
is a possession to possession thing, which is very, very
important for them.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's super impressive. And I'm with you largely on the
Luca defense point. Like I think for most of last
year he was a passable, solid defender, but the finals
were truly abominable. I mean, that was the worst defensive
performance on that stage from a star we've ever seen.
And you're right, he's hobbled, but I still thought that.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Was he gets I think he gets the pass. I
think it gets the pass especially. My logic has always
been like, if your offensive superstar is doing what he's
supposed to do on that end, the rest of that
shit is everybody else's job, and not to the extent
that he isn't required to try on defense. I'm not

(14:37):
saying that, but like they they pointed to that, like
that was the number one problem Dallas had, and it's like,
there are five or six things that I would point
out to before I'm talking about Lucas defense as the problem.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
I don't know if I could get five or six deep.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Now.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think their offense had a number of problems. I
also think that when you are facing maybe the greatest
mismatch attacking team ever, Actually I'll drop the maybe, I'll
say the Celtics are better than any team we've ever
seen at pinpointing your defensive week point and just crushing
him in isolation. Then it's a real problem if you're
going to have one guy who is defending horribly on

(15:16):
the floor, because they can get an advantage every single time,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
But like my point is, like, especially given the injury stuff,
like he is doing more positive out there than anybody
else's so if that's the case, well, yeah, he's not
the first guy. He's not the first guy I'm complaining about,
is my point.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
I just wouldn't give him a pass, is the way
you said it, just because those moments are the ugliest
I've ever seen, and no matter how good of an
offensive player you are, if I was, if I was
a teammate of Luka Doncic's, I would have been rubbed
the wrong way. And the one that sticks out to
me in my brain more than anyone else is just

(15:57):
that possession where he goes under the bass. He's in
the crowd almost at that point, and the Celtics have
a five on four for like over ten seconds, and
it's just like that's don't get me wrong, I see
I see your point, but there were just some inexcusable
moments from any basketball player on that stage. To me,
I agree with you, like fundamentally, Like I think it

(16:18):
may have gotten overblown a little bit, but it's still
it's inexcusable.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think it's also just that, obviously the finals are
the biggest stage. I understand that that's going to be
the brightest light, but you know, five games don't define
Luca as a defender, especially when injured, and like I'm
telling you, you can very dramatically see the difference between
Luca when he is hobbled and Luca when he is healthy.
When Luca is healthy, he's fucking I don't know, can

(16:44):
I curse on this? He's fucking terrifying when he is
in shape, and you can see in the way that
he moves so like, I truly just felt like he
had very little in the tank and he used it
on offense. And I can understand why that was the case.
His teammates shot like fifteen percent from three for the

(17:06):
whole damn series.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, it was brutal. I mean the Celtics also were
just way way better.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
And of course that series was always going to be effective. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
They also did a really really great job of obviously
limiting Lucas playmaking impact by forcing him to play one
on one so much, and then they just guarded him
really well. I mean, he didn't have a good offensive series. Ever,
the Celtics were a great.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
I think it's relative relative to everybody else he did,
just because at least he was putting up some numbers. Yeah,
but the bar is in hell from that series.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, exactly exactly. Well, that's the thing. I guess I'm
more applying the Luka Doncic bar to him. And yeah,
I think that it was a really bad series by
the standard that we have for him as a player.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I'll just keep coming back to the injury stuff. I
know for a fact he had like four different things
like a shoulder, a leg, and knee like all going
into it. So I'm like, I don't deny that.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, but it's also like he filayed Minnesota right before that,
so clearly he's capable of reaching a high level. I
don't know how he got into this whole Luca Finals thing.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I don't think he had a Rudy Gobert motivator.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Maybe that's what it was. Maybe he didn't have somebody
years fueling him with hate enough. No, that's a good take.
That's a good take. But regardless, he's been solid defensively
for the Lakers so far. Their collective rim protection has
been much better than I thought their top four and
opponent field goal percentage at the rim in this wind streak,
I thought that they did a good job on Cat.

(18:37):
I thought that they were able to prevent him just
yesterday from really taking advantage of some of his size
advantages that he did have in that matchup. So I
do think that they're the second best team in the
West right now. Like again, they're not the number one
defense in basketball, but I do think that this is
probably like a top ten defense, probably somewhere in the

(19:01):
back half of the top ten. And then offensively, they
have the best duo in basketball. They have the best
offensive big three in basketball. I honestly think it's pretty clear.
And then they have good play finishing around those guys.
They're a seventy seventh percentile spot up team. They're an
eighty seventh percentile cutting team. Like these guys. Ruey knocks
down shots. DFS has been shooting the ball well this year,

(19:24):
not so much as of late, but in totality, it's
a really, really great offensive formula. Like you said, Logan,
nobody can both cover Lebron and Luca in single coverage.
You may have one guy. You may have an og
who I thought did a good job on Luca. You
may have a lou Dort. You don't have two of them,
and you need two of them to deal with these

(19:44):
two at once. And then if they're gonna defend at
a good level. I think that's the top two team
in the West.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, that's That's part of how I feel about the
OKC matchup because Okase has a crazy amount of perimeter defense,
but they don't have a lot of big wings. They
have a lot of guards who can defend and like
you can get away with that a couple of possessions.
But I think Luca and Lebron will just have a
bunch of get big moments in that series.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, I think it's lou who can hound them. I mean,
especially Luca. We have seen him do relatively well against
and he's just so physical. And then I think that
they're honestly probably going to do a ton of trapping
in blitzing and just do what they do best, which
is the super aggressive defensively. Yeah, fly around. They're the

(20:33):
fastest defense, They've got crazy hands in length. But it's
a challenge. It's a challenge for anyone. It's a challenge
even for Okay. See, like you said, best defense in
the league, because we've never seen an offensive duo like
Lebron and Luca to god tier mismatch attackers and god
tier playmakers put together. It's really fun.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Man.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I underestimated how much this team would be capable of
right away, basically because I underestimated the defense have been
as good as I think it can be.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I've been trying to rack my brain on if there's
ever been a playmaking duo as good as this one.
Lebron and Luca are both top five playmakers of all time.
I can't think of anything that comes close. I was like,
Magic Johnson and Norm Nixon.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
No, that's legitimately like one of the next couple I
would mention. I think probably number two is Hardened and
CP three.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh yeah, that's a clear one. I'm surprised I didn't
think of.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
That, but it's still not Luke and Lebron level.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Sure, I love the Magic and Norm Nixon show because
that legitimately is one of the first that I thought of.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
You.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
I was actually thinking of recent because Chris Paul is
a free agent this summer. I'm like, he should join
the Lakers and then we just have an undeniably impossibly
great playmaking trio.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
That'd be awesome. That would be very, very fun. So
you're really high on the Warriors. That's interesting. I'm a
Warriors fan, so I'm happy to hear that. So you
mentioned earlier. This does relate to a question we had,
which was which team out West in the four through
six range, because we talked about the top three. Now
that's Memphis, that's the Rockets, and that's the Warriors. Is

(22:14):
most dangerous come playoffs? You think it's the Warriors clearly? Why?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I think it's easily. I think it's easily the Warriors
because the Grizzlies. What they're doing this year is really cute.
I like it. I think they're maximalizing what they have,
which is great. I also think it's awesome that they've
done like the oh we're injured all the time. What
if we just had fifteen good players, So they have

(22:41):
that to fall back on and they're not going to
fall apart in the way that they have. I'm worried
about how Jaw fits into it. It kind of feels
like their system has phased him out to an extent,
which I don't know if that was the correct decision
in the long run, even if it's been working and
making them pretty good this year, the Rockets, it's just
not going to happen this year. That's where I'm at.

(23:01):
I don't think the half court creation is nearly good enough.
And then on the Warriors end of things. I'm a
big Steph guy. I've been going back and forth in
my head as to whether or not he might be
my favorite player of all time because I just watched
his rise. Even when I started rooting against him and
the Kevin Durant era, I was still like, that's my

(23:23):
guy though seeing him play like he has his entire
career lately after the like barely crossing the twenty point
per game mark for the start of the season, it's
been very nice. Like the Golden State Warriors, and I'm
sure you know this were a very hard depressing watch

(23:45):
before the Jimmy Butler deal went down, watching Pods and
Buddy Healed as ball handlers and shot creators creators was disgusting.
So I'm a big Steph guy. But then a lot
of this Steph was playing good go into the trade deadline.
But then the Butler deal goes in, and it's like
for the first time even when they won in twenty two, honestly,

(24:09):
since the first time since Kevin Durant was there, I'm
seeing a defense that isn't just going oh shit, Steph,
Oh shit, Steph oh shit, Steph. Every time they're still
doing it. You're never not gonna think, oh shit, Steph
when he's on the floor. But there are other things
preoccupying you because of Jimmy's ability to go downhill get
to the free throw line. I also feel like the

(24:30):
role players, while their numbers haven't boosted a ton, they
look like they're in a more comfortable position. They're not
asked to over extend themselves. No one's asking Pods to
be a shot creator for real anymore, and that's a blessing.
One thing that I feel like has gone super under

(24:50):
highlighted as it relates to this Warriors team. They have
shot the three ball poorly since this deals went down.
Steph and Quinton Post are the only guys who have
shot the three even remotely well, and they last I checked,
it might have changed, but they're the number three offense
in the NBA shooting I think they were seventeenth or
eighteenth in three point percentage. Being the number three off

(25:13):
that says a lot. It's like, this isn't even the
best version of this team that we've seen. You get
Buddy and POD's starting to hit their threes like that.
Moses Moody hitting his threes like that, and suddenly I
think you have two guys who you can't guard one
on one, two guys who you can't give your undivided attention,
and then a bunch of other players on the floor

(25:34):
who will punish you if you bring doubles. That I
think the Warriors could be very scary. It's pretty much
just entirely determined by if Jimmy Butler has the turn
it on things still left in him, which I will say,
while his numbers since joining the Warriors haven't been particularly spectacular,
the eye test he passes it. He passes it for real.

(25:56):
He looks just as comfortable and capable as when he
was thirty two.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, I want to touch on that point you were
making about the offense and they're three point shooting, because Carson,
I think you touched on this. You got to give
credit to well, to one the brilliance of the players
on the court, but also to Steve Kurrz offense and
all the off ball movement and actions and stuff they
do to generate high quality shots. But it really is
the brilliance of these top three guys. Not only do
the Warriors have the best offensive player of these teams.

(26:24):
I think they arguably have the second best offensive player
of these teams. And you're talking about Jimmy, you know,
not fully exerting himself.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
That's what Jimmy does.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
When Jimmy needs to pop the clutch, I know, Jimmy's
gonna pop the clutch. He's gonna get into gear and
be ready to go. Like that is what makes this
team terrifying offensively, now that you can release some of
this pressure off of Steph and let all these guys
just play this beautiful, flowing brand of basketball because they're
all so intelligent. I mean, we were talking about, you know,
the talent level of a Luca, A Lebron and A Reeves. Steph,

(26:56):
Jimmy and Dre may be the smartest trio in all
of the NBA. Like, these are masters of their craft
at this point in their game. And you know, we're
talking about how some of the pressure has been alleviated
off of Steph's shoulders offensively, it's also the fact that
a lot of this pressure has been lifted off the
shoulders of Dre defensively. Now you've got a guy who
knows where to be in position, and I just think

(27:18):
it's all coming together for the Warriors. And what I
mean by that isn't necessarily that because I think I'm
pretty close to.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
Where you're at, Jacob.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I think with the Warriors where I do take them
as a legitimate threat. They're not my favorite, but I
believe in them in a different level. And it's They're
definitely more scary to me than Golden State or Houston.
They just don't have a guy that strikes fear into
my heart like Steph Curry that oh shit, Steph. Yeah,
Steph still got that gear. I think Jimmy still got

(27:48):
that gear. And like you said, Man, I don't think this.
The Warriors are playing their best basketball right now, like
they're playing cohesive, they're playing good on both sides of
the ball.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
But I think they can play even better.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Shot variants. The shot variants hasn't been on their side,
but the system, everything about it is very clearly functioning
good looks. They're just not dropping, and you.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Got to think that the pendulum is going to swing
right back in their favor by playoff time.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
The Warriors, to me, you're like, are one of the
scariest first round draws for a low seed.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
I would not want to see that team round one.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's also the Warriors. They own the three pointer. It's theirs.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
They invented it. They invented it.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Where were you and Steph Curry invented the three point line?

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Unbelievable, unbelievable what he's done for this.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
He made skinny white guys viable in pick up basketball.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Man, that's you, buddy, I can speak, I can attest
he did that.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
As as the kid who could only hit, catch and
shoot threes growing up, I really appreciate the increase in value.
I've always had my headcannon that when Steve Kerr joined
the Warriors, it was and he made them successful through
three point shooting. Is out of spite for being underappreciated

(29:03):
in his era. He's like, I'll show you how good, dude, I.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Will say, speaking of Logan's point about the little white
guys a pickup I've been playing a lot of pickup
as of late, and I'm playing in the Bay Area
in San Francisco, and like, there's so much Warriors esque
motion offense being run just in pickup. Dudes are setting
flare screens, Dudes are setting back screens all the time.
Everybody can shoot I'm like, is this all the Warriors influence?
Is this just mind the mind the game, dude, shout out,

(29:32):
shout out Braun, shout out.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
JJ JJ and Lebron made backscreens cool.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Somebody had to do it. I think the Warriors are
the choice here. It's definitely not Houston. I've been saying
all year.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Houston is just Thom shout out my god, but.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Literally one of the loves of my life. I do
anything for him.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
He's been top three most enjoyable players for me this
year easily unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
I'm believable, and top one athlete in the league.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
I saw him and his brother at OTK a couple
of years ago, and I was like, I have not
seen people move like that in person.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
It's unbelievable. Six', seven first, step the vertical, pop all of.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
It it's.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Unbelievable, Also Big trivia. Guys those guys really like their basketball.
History we got to get them.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
ON i really super appreciate. That it always makes me
a little sad when someone comes in the league and
they just don't know, Shit And i'm, LIKE i recognize
being a basket AN nba historian isn't a requirement of your.
Job BUT i think if you if you have the
history of the game in the back of your, MIND
i think it's a positive.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
FORCE i just love. It they were getting asked some trivia.
QUESTION i think it was about like brothers to play
in THE, nba and they Pulled Zoran Dragis goren's, brother
AND i was, like, yeah my, dudes.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Right i've seen a good amount of your, clips like
just you, know doing trivia pulling stuff like, that and
you have you have a way better fastball than. Me, okay,
BUSINESS i know my history very. Well you know your
history to an extent That i'm, like what do you
do you? Sleep what's?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Wrong it's, unnecessary but it's really. Unnecessary i'm actually seeking
treatment for it. Now but, anyways shout out to The donson.
Twins they're welcome. ANYTIME i love a. Man it's just
The rockets half court offense is one of the worst in,
basketball and you're not going to win in the. Playoffs,
say and they play so, hard they're so, young they're so.

(31:32):
Athletic that's just the prototype of you can win games
in the regular, season the bottom is going to fall
out in the. Playoffs and they've already been seeing some regular,
seasons AND i.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Think they've maxed out on that play. Style they're doing
it as well as they, can but there's only so
far you can take.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
IT i.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Agree, NOW i do think That memphis is in a
different tier From. HOUSTON i think that they are a
lot closer to The warriors for me than either of
these teams are to The. ROCKETS i still think THAT
i prefer The, dubs though you Talk jacob just about
like the synergy of this, team the, fit the, system
how well everything is. Working, jimmy to me is one

(32:10):
of the absolute best connective stars in the league. Today
just his ability to immediately come in and whatever you
need on both sides of the. Ball you need him to,
screen you need him to, Cut you need him to
make decisions against a zone from the middle of the,
floor you need him to be a great short role.
Playmaker he can do all of, that and then when
it comes down, to, hey can you get us a

(32:31):
bucket in? ISOLATION i, mean he's been incredibly efficient as
an on ball scorer this. Year he just hasn't done
as much of it because he's older and saving his
body and IS i think still getting sort of adjusted
to his role with The warriors in terms of not
wanting to over exert himself with scoring.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
VOLUME i do feel like the, obvious holy shit behemoth
playoff reformer that he's been. BEFORE i feel like people
hold that image of, him and then when he scores
a eighteen five and, five they're, like, oh what the
hell is? This start trying. More but, like, yeah it's
as impactful of an eighteen five and five as you

(33:08):
could realistically ask.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
FOR i could not agree more because he's making a
positive contribution on basically every possession in some way or.
Another he's doing it off, ball on, ball and then,
DEFENSIVELY i think also you see HIS iq is so
valuable hiss off ball. Defense him And dre are such
a great. Pairing AND i don't think it's set all
surprising that this team is by far at their best

(33:30):
offensively when they go small and they go five, out
or if they don't go, small then they still Have
post on the, floor who is a stretch Big obviously
that makes it.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Ten want TO i wanted to ask what do you
think Of Quinton? Post Because i've seen mixed reviews in
terms of like how viable he will be in a.
POSTSEASON i think it's pretty.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Simple if he's making his shots at a really high,
clip he's. Viable if he's, not, yeah he's not viable because, obviously,
defensively you are sacrificing. Something BUT i think that if
you are going to Play jimmy And dre, together you
just really want to have them in a five out
situation offensively where they have a stretch big alongside, them

(34:10):
because if you put them alongside a conventional, big THEN
i think that the spacing issues start to become, noticeable
and The warriors centers also just aren't. GOOD i, mean
no hate To, LOON i love the, guy and no
hate TO. Tjd BUT i think That post brings a
unique value that makes him worth playing not a ton
but fifteen minutes a game in the. PLAYOFFS i think

(34:31):
he can give you, that AND i.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Think draymond enables him a. Lot draymond's ability to play
much bigger than he is agreed be a defensive. Anchor
like If Quinn post can just like be in the
right spot while being a large, body he can be.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Paid and it's interesting too BECAUSE i think they both
amplify him on the defensive. End BUT i think his
floor spacing Amplifies drey And jimmy were, like you, know
to exploit their issues floor.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Spacing, totally, totally and that's how they have to. Play
they have to either go, smaller they have to have
posted the. Five but both of those lineups have been extremely.
Successful like, defensively what they've done as this small ball
group has been so. Impressive their top three. Defense Since
jimmy joined the, team they're forcing turnovers at an elite.

(35:16):
Rate they're forcing eighteen per game since he. Joined dre
is still able to be a high level rim protector
at his, size which is just. Incredible AND i really
really think that they have found the right starting group
with obviously the big three and Then pods And. MOODY
i think That pods And moody are both plus. DEFENDERS
i think they do their job. There and THEN i

(35:37):
think that there are, guys Especially, pods with good feel,
offensively they fit in. Well And pods's shot has obviously
been very, inconsistent but when it's, on he's a really
good all around basketball. Player like you, said not meant
to be cast in the role of a creator even
a secondary ball handler at this, point but he does
so many positive things when he's in the right, role

(36:00):
and that's the beauty of all. This this is A
warriors team where everybody was trying to punch above their
weight because they just needed anybody who could provide any
offense Alongside steph before The jimmy, trade and they didn't
have the. Personnel their offense outside Of steph was a.
Disaster now you Introduce, jimmy everybody's roles are scaled down a,
bit and everybody is playing better because they're more comfortable

(36:22):
with what they're being asked to. Do and then, obviously
Like Steph curry is just a. Monster last twelve games
Since jimmy joined the, team he's giving you thirty points
and seven assists per game on seventy percent for your.
Shooting that is a surefire top ten. Player Back it's,
unbelievable and, like they put this man through, hell so thank.
God this is WHY i was so happy they made

(36:42):
The jimmy. Trade it's not BECAUSE i didn't even think
they would be as good as they. ARE i thought
they would be noticeably. BETTER i didn't think that they
would become a top.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Fourteen just don't go out. Sad that's HOW i felt
about the trade was, like you're not going out sad,
anymore and that's.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
OKAY i couldn't agree. More, man it was. Depressing it
was like a complete disservice To steph and everything he'd
done for the. Franchise he made them out there with that, team.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Like three billion dollar, franchise you can get him a
star player like give And i'm.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
So happy that they. Did and the value obviously was really.
Good it's a, really really great trio that they, have so,
like If i'm comparing them To, MEMPHIS i do definitely
think The warriors have the Better big three in terms
of just their literal raw, ability but also their, experience THEIR,
iq the way they compliment each other on both sides

(37:33):
of the. BALL i know What i'm getting from those.
GUYS i have more questions About jaw the level that
he's been playing, At like how much are they going
to just turn back To jaw running a ton of
pick and roll versus how much are they going to
stick to their? System how effective is he going to
because his shots been, brutal the efficiency's been.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
ROUGH i feel like he's just one of those guys
that needs the ball in his hands to be at his,
best and they keep taking it out out of his,
hands And i'm just, LIKE i recognize the utility and
not having just that to lean. On that's a good
thing to, develop especially for when he's on the. Bench

(38:12):
but if you're shutting out your star player because this
is just nowhere near what his strength, IS i think
that's going to cause you to. Lose even if you
have a, respectable pretty good offense within this. System and
you got to commend how well this has worked in
the regular season, one BUT i just. DON'T i don't

(38:35):
think you're going to go to a conference finals or
a championship Unless John moran is putting up twenty seven to. Ten.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah my honest opinion IS i think that they are
going to put the ball In jaw's hands a lot
in the, playoffs AND i think they're going to let
him do his thing more than they have BECAUSE i,
mean historically we've also just Seen jah enter like that
takeover mode in the, playoffs for good or for. Bad
sometimes he shoots out again and sometimes he's taken too
many pull up, threes but like he wants to be dictating.

(39:03):
Everything they've obviously had a change in, philosophy BUT i
THINK i think he'll be given the ball more out of.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
PACK i feel like if they're gonna do, that, though
they should at least do it a little bit in
the regular. Season ramp it up a little, bit because
if you're just like fundamentally changing your offensive approach day
one of the, playoffs then that's not gonna work.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Either it's a totally fair. POINT i also have questions
About TRIPLE. J as great as he has, been like
as a, scorer as a mismatch attack or monster to
touch the physicality it's so so, GOOD i still think
he is a bad, passer AND i still worry about
what happens when it's a playoff series now and teams

(39:45):
are just doubling the shit out of.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Him, yeah, dude he's not gonna handle that.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
WELL i don't think that concerns. Me he's having such
a great, season but like, again it's just more. Questions
that's Why i'm not writing The grizzlies. OFF i certainly
think they can win a playoff series, because like they
have a lot of, talent they have a really good,
defense they have really good. Depth they're actually a really
good shooting. Team, now like this is the best half
court offense they've ever produced by a good.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
BIT i don't think they just have really good. DEPTH
i think they have the best depth in the. League,
yeah it's.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Phenomenal it's absolutely. Phenomenal that's not as big of a
deal in a playoff, series you, know the fact that
you can go thirteen deep because you just aren't going.
To but they've got a.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
LOT i think it is for them because they've just
always had one or two key guys. Missing so like
having actual having ACTUAL nba players who can come in
like that THAT i think it's more about the injury
stuff With. Memphis they're just, Like i'm so fucking tired
of everyone being hurt all the, time and they just
Signed Scottie pippen. Junior, God i'm blanking on the. Name

(40:48):
i'm flanking on the center who does the reverse dunks
all the? Time Jay. Huff, yeah like a bunch of
guys on just nothing contracts for a long period of.
Time so, Like i've appreciated What memphis has, done but
as far as the conversation of them winning The, west
they're fourth place for, me And i'd be shocked if
it was. THEM i would just it goes Beyond Doc

(41:11):
horse to that. Point to, me you.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Think that they're? Fourth so do you have them above or?
Fifth well behind the fourth with Uh?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Lakers, okay See dubs And. Nuggets wait it would be.
Fifth i'm. DUMB i Can't, no it's. Okay, now math
is extremely.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Difficult job's fine in The, west, though did you account
for That job's fine in The?

Speaker 2 (41:33):
West not in twenty twenty? Five, well it.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Turns out he actually was never fine in The. West, no, yeah,
YEAH i would take The warriors. HERE i do think
That memphis is really, good BUT i have more concerns about.
Them who's scoring big in THE nba this? Season you

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Speaker 3 (43:23):
AUDIO i want to talk about just this kind of
hilarious thing that happened the other day where The celtics
had their first ever duo to score forty plus points

(43:44):
in the same. Game this is a team that Had
John havlichik And Sam jones And Tommy hinsen all on
the same team at the same, time and obviously McHale
And bird And parish And Ray allen And Paul, Pierson
Kevin garnett.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
And duio or what about uh havel check And Jojo.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
White shout Out Jojo, white shout Out Charlie. SCOTT i, mean,
listen there's too many guys to shout. OUT i didn't even.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Mention i'm just trying to impress you by pulling.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Out you are you? ARE i, mean please at any,
Point i'll love. It i'll eat it right. Up and
the first duo in their history to get forty plus
in the same game Is Peyton pritchard And Derek white
and The. Celtics and The celtics win without a number
of their guys in that. Game so.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
HUGE i didn't know that. Happened, yeah, YEAH i Heard
peyton had. FORTY i did not hear That Derek white had.
Forty the media doesn't WANT i would be who'd they
play who is that, against Because i'd be paying that.
AGAINST i know it Was py And pritchard And Derek.
White give me. Eighty i'm not turning on AN nba
game for a couple of.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Weeks, no that's no. Fun and it Was, portland And
portland's have been there, Especially, yeah, yeah they have. Been but,
anyways in, life here we have this team that's a defending.
Champion obviously they have a dude on their bench who
you give them the opportunity you can go off for Forty,
Logan i'll start with you on this. One do The

(45:10):
celtics have an argument for being the most talented team
of all?

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Time, YEAH i mean there's definitely an. ARGUMENT i think
it's just where they. Land they're.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
Superpower to, me there are two.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Superpowers you mentioned it, earlier the mismatch, attacking the fact
that you know in their starting five that their smallest
guy is six foot, five and that if there's any
liabilities on the court or six foot four or six foot,
five depending on who's in the, lineup your smallest guy
is still going to be normally strong enough if they
have any small guard or any weak point to go at.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Them not to.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Mention one how good that all their players are at attacking,
switches but, two how Deliberately.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Boston tries to find that.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
GUY i think back to The cleveland game that they
had not that long, ago WHERE i mean literally every
possession early in the first, half it is them who
On Darius garland is setting a screen on the ball
handler and they're trying to get That garland switch. Immediately
and then it's also just the high volume of, threes
and that's just what Makes boston so exceptionally difficult to.

(46:12):
Guard and for the longest time before they won the
title last, Year i'll be the first guy to tell
YOU i was critical of the offensive.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
SYSTEM i thought that they could run cold at certain.
POINTS i didn't like.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
IT i love it, now the fact that they can
just spam threes at will.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
And blow teams out of the.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Water AND i, mean let's be, real it hasn't been
as sexy this year as it was last. Year last
year they had more twenty five point victories than any
other team IN nba. History they were blowing everybody. Out
but that formula still exists and it's, very very, potent
so they can do. That it's this offensive haven where
you have all this space because you have shooters all

(46:47):
around the floor for everybody.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
To attack on the.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Interior and then, defensively they also don't have any weak.
Points they have two all defense guards in their starting,
lineup they have two awesome defensive, forwards and they have
rim protection out the ass with Christophs worzingis and old
Man Al horford who's still getting it.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
Done not to mention off the.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Bench they have three really high impact guys Like Peyton
pritchard is a monster of a six man WHO'S i,
mean would be a starting point guard on a bunch
of other. TEAMS i Feel Sam houser is a really
high impact. Wing Luke cornett is really. Good like they're.
Loaded it just to me depends on where you'd have,
them like WHAT i put them over the twenty Seventeen.

(47:29):
Dubs probably, NOT i, mean that's just a ridiculous amalgamation of.
Talent the eighty Six, celtics like you, Mentioned probably not
the eighty Three sixers or another team THAT i would
look at WHERE i think that they were just comically
loaded top to.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Bottom and ALSO.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I guess The Boston strangler shout.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Out, man, baby that's a deep cut that's a good,
Shout jacob shout. Out the thing THAT i would give
the nod to those other teams for IS i don't
think the league as a whole was as talented as
it is. Now SO i do think that's an advantage
for some of the older, teams like the eighty Three,
sixers the eighty Six, celtics maybe the seventy Two, lakers

(48:11):
LIKE i think the.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Depth was more consolidated to.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Them, yeah, EXACTLY i think that they probably have a higher.
Percentage but still that being, SAID i Mean boston's GOT.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I, mean, shit, dude what five top fifty we're?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Going is? That is it like relative to the league
talent or just.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Your, Interpretation but that's it's open new.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
INTERPRETATION i think that it's probably more interesting if you
do it relative to, league because THEN i think if
you just do it in terms of pure, talents only
two candidates are the twenty seventeen, sixties.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Right, right the Sixty celtics are more.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Exactly the Sixty celtics, though like at that point it's
like there are eight teams in the, league so of
course there's a super high concentration of. STARS i think
like once you start expanding to twenty teams is when
you can have a fair comparison POINT i could give.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
THEM i think top. FIVE i think top five is
about where i'd settle With.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Boston what do you, Think Jacob?

Speaker 2 (49:13):
WELL i should first preface this WITH i am A celtics,
hater specifically this, team which is not THAT i have
any real contempt for them at. ALL i don't particularly
Like boston sports, fans BUT i think Most boston sports
fans would be, like, YEAH i get, it BUT i
Like Jason. Tatum you mentioned when we were talking about the, defense,

(49:36):
like Has Jason tatum not made An all defensive? Team
because if, so that's robbery to. ME i have routinely
felt like he's the best defender on that, team WHICH
i recognize as controversial because of how damn stacked the
team is in terms of just being the most impactful.
DEFENDER i would give it to. Him the REASON i

(49:56):
wouldn't say they're the most talented team of all. Time
first of, all haven't seen them battle tested against a
truly great. Team haven't seen them see like they didn't
see anybody in front of them that they were not gonna.
Beat this last, run which doesn't take it away from,
them but it is we haven't seen them do. That
but more, IMPORTANTLY i just don't think their top two

(50:18):
guys are good. Enough LIKE i think the most talented
team of all time to, me has to feature at
least one generational, talent AND i don't Think Jason tatum
quite crosses that. THRESHOLD i think he's a fine first,
option but he's very far from your first. Choice Jalen brown,

(50:40):
again same, thing fine second, option very far from your first.
CHOICE i think where the talent comes into the question
is just like how distributed it is among the entire,
team because when they have their starting lineup in, there
like other than porzingis basically and he's a mis match,

(51:00):
destroyer so that's all, Fine but other than, them like
catch a shoot, threes drive off of the, catch making
the right pass every, time such great playmaking between, everybody
especially this last. YEAR i got to give him, Credit Jalen,
Brown it's taken a huge leap as a. Playmaker didn't
expect that at. ALL i didn't expect him to be

(51:21):
hovering anywhere near five assists per game at any point
in his. Career BUT i just think the top two
isn't high enough for the rest of the guys to
make up for, It and to, me the answer is
easily the twenty Seventeen, Dubs Kevin durant And steph at
their peaks on the same. Team, yeah there's the only

(51:42):
offensive duo better than that to me Is kobe And.
Shack obviously the two Thousand lakers aren't making it because
their core of role players was very. Fine, yeah BUT.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
I don't even know if purely OFFENSIVELY i would Take
kobe And shack Over Stephan. KATIE i Think i'm TAKING.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I think that's fair stand why you would have that,
Perspective BUT i, PERSONALLY i just Think kobe And shack's
the best duo period Because i'm a BIG i really
like a guard big dynamic or ball handler big dynamic
where yeah ball handler guard way yeah yeah. YEAH i
actually kind of feel like they're a little. Overrated we

(52:19):
can go in that if you want, to but just
as a duocide so, clean, yes, YEAH i feel like
there was only like two years Where kareem Was kareem
And magic Was. Magic the rest of it Was kareem
leading at, first Then magic leading the post, era which is,
fine but.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
It was also he was so good so. Early, like,
no he wasn't eighty seven, magic but Young magic is
still like one of the great Offensive.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
To, me it was a matter of being limited By
Norm nixon's, Presence like that's just simply what it. Was
like he couldn't put up fifteen assists per game playing shooting.
Guard but.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
That.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Aside if your conversation goes top two Players stephen kd
and then yeah Dpoy Draymond, green one of the greatest
defenders of all time and probably the best of his.
Generation your fourth best player Is Clay. Thompson give me
a fucking. Break you have to worry about an Open steph,

(53:22):
three an Open clay, three or Open Kevin durant, three
and the odds that you can prevent all three of
them possessioned it's literally non. Existent it's the most comically
stacked Team i've ever, seen and it didn't even matter
that everybody else was. Fine oh, yeah and.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Their fifth guy, too is the ultimate, connector And Andrea.
GUIDE i know If widala wasn't at his you, know
nearly the apex of his, powers but was still a you,
know a really impactful player at That the.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Good fifth, guy great, yeah good.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Guy, hey if you're comparing the twenty Seventeen dubbs to
The celtics right, now your number one is way better
with the twenty Seventeen. Dumbs if you think It's Steph
curry Or Kevin, durant doesn't, matter it's your number. TWO
i think It's steph as. Well your number two is
then better by a significantly wider margin because now we're

(54:11):
talking About Kevin durant Versus in my, opinion, ACTUALLY i
Think chrispinkas is The celtics second best player.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Ever Jia.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
OH i THOUGHT i said that last year And Jalen
brown played Good conference finals and everyone yelled at, me
And porzingis has been very unhealthy since. Then so, LIKE
i can't say THAT i was right about, it But
i'm glad to hear where someone else felt that.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Way if he's on the, FLOOR i, MEAN kp is
such a unicorn bro like literally top tier him that
they should call him. That in, Fact i'm trademarking that
he is a top tier stretch big and he is
up there for the absolute best post up mismatch attacker in.
Basketball if you can do all of those three things

(54:55):
at a flat out elite level with elite efficiency, offensively
like you're just checking some of the most valuable boxes
THAT i want from a.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Big while protector.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Exactly so he is such a, monster AND i think
that With jalen you have more questions about the efficiency
and the playmaking at, times LIKE i would TAKE kp
but then, okay either, way it's a it's a massacre Of.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Kevin i've always felt. One i've always felt That jalen
just is always like at A b plus to, me
like he always is good, enough but he's never. Exceptional
and when people say he's better Than Jason tatum might
feel Like i'm a crazy person.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
That is, crazy and, LIKE i don't. KNOW i just
think people often fixate purely on, scoring where it's like last,
year who had the better scoring playoff, run Absolutely Jalen
brown it, was but who had the better overall run
even when that Was tatum at his worst when you
consider rebounding in playmaking and the defense of. Versatility not
to say That jalen wasn't really good, defensively But tatum

(56:01):
is out here guarding centers and switching everything and.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
He's not like six, nine you, Know, yeah it's just.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
A physical tools. Thing to an, extent it's a size.
Thing And tatum has gotten so good as a playmaker,
NOW i mean they're not in remotely the same. Tier
and like If dale has been playing, better But jalen's
had a terrible jump shooting season from mid range and from.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Deep, Yeah i've. Seen you, know there's a lot of
discourse about, like Could Jason tatum ever get into AN mvp.
CONVERSATION i Think boston's system right now is really shutting
him out of that because the fact that he can
only get like five SIX i don't know exactly what
he's averaging right, now but i'd guess it's like five
and a half assist per. GAME i feel like he's

(56:41):
an eight to nine per game playmaker if put in the.
Position but The celtics system is just we don't they
don't lean on a ball handler like. That but he's
one of the best playmakers in THE. Nba and because
the assist volume isn't, THERE i don't think a lot
of people recognize.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
That BUT i think FOR i think for great, TEAM
i think great players have to sacrifice to. WIN i
think people. CAN i, MEAN i just think people can
kind of underappreciate. That AND i THINK i Like Jaylen,
brown but a lot Of Jaylen brown's points in the
playoffs last year also came out of. Transition and that's
not a slight in, him BECAUSE i Think brown's one
of the best transition scores in. Basketball but it's Like

(57:22):
tatum's impact is just so much more well. Rounded AND
i think it's like popular to hate on him and
this and, that but in a lot of, WAYS i.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Still do feel like he's.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Underappreciated AND i, mean LIKE i just, SAID i do
Think tatum sacrifices his raw numbers and if people clown
on him Because tatum says. That and don't get me,
WRONG i don't like When tatum.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
His scoring numbers are fine and people like he takes
the same amount of shots as any of the other
top players in the. League so it's not the scoring,
stuff it's the other stats that hold him.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Back what he said that annoyed Me logan last year
was when he talked about sacrificing after he had taken
like twenty something shots.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
Shot like at the playoffs Team and.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
When you talk about sacrificing if you're actually still getting your.
Shots but he's the most versatile player in the league,
today and that's what he. Is he's a do it all.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Superstar one one thing THAT i judge players, on especially
the best players a, lot is how good are you
when the shots not? Falling how good are you at
getting easy, offense getting to the, line impacting on, defense
still using your scoring gravity, effectively still being a great?
Playmaker and, LIKE i Think Jason tatum has one of

(58:37):
the best floors of any player in the, league because
even when the SHOT's not going, in he is a
very impactful Player. Totally it would be nice if the
shot didn't disappear as often as it. Does but other than, that,
LIKE i gotta give him. That, like who's a better
player when the shots not? Falling Jason tatum Or Jalen.
Brown it's not a, question not remotely.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Question not to mention that Also tatum is a much better,
shooter and he is still a better. Scorer but all
THIS i was just building to the point that if
you're comparing The celtics to the twenty Seventeen, warriors The
warriors best guys way, better their second best guy is way,
better their third guy is way, better and their fourth
guy is way. Better so that's a, really really difficult

(59:22):
deficit to. Overcome even THOUGH i think That boston definitely
does have the better five through eight because Like drew
And horford And pritchard And houser is a good player like,
that they do have an advantage, there it's not bigger
than the one.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Three you also have to consider where those guys were
ranking in THE nba when they were, Together Like steph
AND kd were top three With, lebron those were the
top three players in the, league and Then clay And
draymond were anywhere between like twelve to twenty. ISH i
think get a quick hot takeoff, Here, OH i Think

(59:57):
draymond was the most important player of The warriors dynasty
After steph and is like notably better Than Klay. Thompson
but the scoring, bias the scoring bias we talk. About
people look at you like you're crazy when you say that,
Shit But i'm just LIKE i Get clay scored twenty a.
Game draymond is to The warriors defense What steph is

(01:00:19):
to The warriors.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Offense they had more top five defenses in their run
of dominance than they did top five. Offenses when you
pair A tier one offensive player ever with A tier
one defensive player. Ever, well maybe not tier one BECAUSE
i Think tier one is probably Just Bill russell and
maybe A keeam but. WHATEVER i think probably a top
five defensive player ever with a top five offensive. Player,
Oh Tim duncan Love Tim duncan would be my number

(01:00:43):
three defender of all. Time he's, phenomenal but he's my number.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
One but that's.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Okay oh do you judge people relative to era or
how do you? Know because if, SO i don't think
there's any Against russell being number.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
One, okay not, Right, yeah that's kind of a hard.
Conversation i've you, know it's not like there's a lot
Of Bill russell film. Either oh you got a lot
of claim there's, some but you get a lot of
claim to fame for inventing shot.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
BLOCKING i, mean he's just so, ridiculous. Dude because, actually funnily,
Enough i've brought this up so many times on the pod,
now BUT i am working on a video WHERE i
watched AN nba game from every decade AND i watched
a game from that's the sixty three. Finals, yeah it's
gonna be, fun but it's a fucking. Behemoth BUT i,
Mean Bill. Russell it's just unbelievable the impact that a
great rim protector could have in an era pre three point,

(01:01:35):
line especially in the, sixties you just can't replicate it
in any era. Sense and So russell is blocking eight
to ten shots a. GAME i tracked in this game
he had eight, blocks and those are like the typical
estimates for his per game. Average it just wasn't. Tracked
he's gobbling up twenty five rebounds a, game and he's
also legitimately. Agile he's getting out in space and blocking.
Jumpers but also, like, yeah teams are just, like, okay

(01:01:57):
we'll let you shoot. Jumpers you're not getting into THE,
pa and if you, do you're gonna have to deal
With Bill. Russells like jumpers twelve number one defenses in, thirteen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Jumpers were also like ten years, old Tam, yeah, yeah,
yeah they just dropped jump shots just. Dropped yeah. Lousy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Here that's another interesting thing because like there are dudes
who have like modern looking jumpers at that, time Like Jerry,
west very pretty jump, shot and then you Have koozy
with this fucking one handed set shot fling in. It, yeah,
yeah well, fair but like it is an interesting. Time
But Bill russell to, me is definitely the defensive. Goat but,
anyways you have those, TWO i, AGREE i definitely Think

(01:02:38):
draymond is Over. Clay now to answer the, question is
there a case to be made For, Boston, Maybe AND
i think the case that you could try to make
is of any team IN nba, history if you take
away one of their, stars one of their key, players
they are the strongest ever because they have so much aggregate,

(01:03:00):
talent because the starting five is so, insane and then
even the depth beyond that is so. GOOD i went
AND i pulled their records over the last two years
without all their key guys except For Derek, white he
hasn't missed much. Time Without Jason, Tatum they're ten and
two Without Jalen, Brown they're twenty and three without Christophs,
Pozingis they're forty six and. Ten Without Drew, holliday they're

(01:03:24):
twenty three and. Six so they're gonna win eighty to
ninety percent of their games without any of those. GUYS
i don't think that would hold up For, tatum but
they're still ten and two without, him and like their
net rating with him on the court versus, off it
over two, years they're like a plus nine net team
with him on the, court and they're like a plus
nine net team with him off the.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
Court that's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Insane nobody else can do. That the problem with that
case even is that the twenty seventeen to Nineteen warriors
were still twenty seven and four When steph played WITHOUT,
kd and they made The finals WITHOUT kd in twenty.
Nineteen SO i still don't think they he's make the
best claim it's just because He's, steph because they, added you,
know a top three player to a seventy three win,

(01:04:03):
team and they made some, sacrifices but not not a. Ton.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
YEAH i had a point to make AND i lost.
It oh, well, SORRY I, OH i know what it.
WAS i know what it. Was is how much of
that is talent versus just, roster constructure and system like
their combined. Talent if they're just if we're filling, It
if it's like a glass and you can fill it

(01:04:29):
to one hundred percent max, talent how much does that
fill up versus how much of their success is they
have put all the pieces together, perfectly they fit really,
well and the scheme works really, well but actual just
aggregated talent across the. BOARD i don't know if it's that,
crazy so much as the system maximalizes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
IT i would say it's probably seventy percent, talent BECAUSE
i think the talent is great no matter, what and
thirty percent this system that is assembled of the perfect
kind of. Players. Right the fact that you can pull
a guy Like houser who is going to fit into

(01:05:10):
this role of spot up. Shooter it's a simple, role
but he's one of the absolute best at, it and
then he can even compete, defensively or Like Derek white
And Drew holiday being able to slot into your fourth
and fifth option roles, offense and Then Derek white is
just like a god tear.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Shooter, Yeah Drew holliday was a twenty and eight guy
before he went to The, celtics and he gets deduced
to like thirteen and five, now and he just MAXIM
i keep saying the word. Maximalized that's not a WORD
i use a. LOT i don't know where it's coming,
from but like maxed out his, efficiency, yeah just because he's, like,
Yeah i've just his three point percentage has been. Down

(01:05:48):
that's another reason the topic is not how well will
they do this. POSTSEASON i have, concerns but, yeah they're
undeniably they got to be in the top five at
least they.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
ARE i Think logan shouted out some great. ONES i
would probably include the eighty Seven lakers up there with
the shady Sixth celtics and the eighty three Six. ERS
i do think that the twenty Seventeen warriors clear. Anybody
and people will, say, oh, well what about the ninety
six and ninety Seven. BOWLS i mean these teams that,
were you, know winning seventy two and sixty nine. GAMES

(01:06:21):
i don't think their overall talent of this same top
top tier that Were.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
They Had michael Fucking Jordan man.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
And michael Fucking, jordan they Had scotti Fucking, pippen and
they were an incredible team. Defense but if you're looking
at the fourth, options the third, option.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Yeah that it's really, thin real.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Fast it's kind of that era of, basketball you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Know right leaning on your, star leading on your star
a ton.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Post, expansion so talent is a little bit more dispersed
throughout the league and just not a rich era for
elite offensive talent and role players were so much, moremitted
whereas LIKE i don't even know if you can Call
Eric white a role, player but if he, is he's
just about the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
BEST i also feel like there just wasn't a team
from that era period that was like outright stacked maybe
in the names, department for like the ninety Seven, rockets
but obviously they were, geriatric so right, Right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
YEAH i think that's. TRUE i mean there were great, teams.
Obviously ninety Six sonics are a great. Team really super, Teams, No,
NO i would. AGREE i would, agree. Certainly not like
the twenty twenty Five Boston, celtics even though they don't
have multiple, superstars they just have as many really good basketball.
Players the emphasis time we've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Emphasis is on, team not super you, know, yeah they
have a super, team not a. Superstar they do.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
WELL i think they have a, superstar but.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
He's not Ah. Alti he's a lower tier.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Superstar, YEAH i would tend to. AGREE i would tend
to agree with. That speaking of, superstars there's a guy
who's been playing like one as of, late and when
you just get him out there on the, court, healthy,
boy he can do some incredible. Stuff and That's Zion.
Williamson SO i want to Know jacob will start with.
You if we are just presuming, health Saying zion is,
healthy how many players are you taking over him in

(01:08:17):
the entire league?

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Today all? Right so WHAT i wrote down for this
is it is dependent on what exactly your question. Is
is it as in taking over like just right, now who's?
Better or, Yes i'm building a franchise for the next five. Years,
no wh's just right?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Cool where does he rank among the best basketball? Players?

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
NAMES i wrote down some of, Them i'm not hard set,
on But Sga, Jokic Jannis, Tatum, Aunt luca Lebron, cade
which is When i'm. Okay and then you said you
said presuming. Health so that means That kawhi And embiid

(01:09:01):
and A d are in this Conversation wemby as, well,
uh and Then steph and Kd. CADE i could cut,
uh BUT i think that might be. IT i don't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Know, okay that's.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
INTERESTING i agree with a lot of the names you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
SAID i actually would. HAVE i would have A, d
BUT i would Cut, KAWHI i would Cut. Embiid, WELL
i GET i get that we're presuming.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Health the hard.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Thing With embiid IS i don't think healthy right?

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
RIGHT i was just giving a it's a my league
and you turned injuries totally.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Yeah totally. Fair the thing With embid is, like even
WHEN i put the presuming health, Caveat i'm, like does
he still fall into a different category because they're literally
talking about medical retirement with this? Guy you?

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Know, yeah presuming health is like, okay and what fucking
fantasy world are you living? In because there is no
world Where embiid's healthy and. Enough, Really that's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Kind of Where i'm at With kawhi And embiid. Both
that's why they're pretty easy axes for.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Me but you could say the same thing For, zion
SO i.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Could, Right it's like if you're going to Give zion
the injury benefit of the, doubt But zion to.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
Me is younger and that's WHY i give him the.
Past kawhi And embiid are over the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Hill they're.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Done Like, ZION i don't play, Him.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Brom take him out, Back jesus okay playing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
BASKETBALL i Think kawhi And embiid even fall into different. Categories.
NOW i Think embiid is red. Alert this is really
really could be. It kawhi is obviously hurt all the,
time but at least he's playing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Basketball he still plays. Well when he, plays he plays.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Well the one guy that you didn't mention THAT i
would concretely have Over zion Is carson's Boyfriend Evan.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
MOBLEY i would Have evanley still Above, zion BUT.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I definitely a better floor. PLAYER i THINK i.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Just he gives you he's gonna make you an. Elite
his offensive game is, budding AND i just believe in.
Him But zion's really really high for. ME i think,
concretely i'd say like thirteen or fourteen for.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Me those are two players i'd love to see play,
together not that that's ever gonna. Happen, Zion, YEAH i like.
THAT i like that. COMPLIMENT i like how they compliment
each other.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
THERE i would be phenomenal to just have like an
elite versatile defensive big Behind zion who then also can
play from the perimeter some. Offensively i'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Fine i've been trying to find a way for Uh
Miles turner to end up next To zion Because i'm just,
like that's a match made in.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Heaven, yeah this big aspect of it is. Awesome would be.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Honest my mind is like The Brook lopez And yannis
like same type of.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Dynamic, Yeah zion with a Stretch big would be. Phenomenal
zion with a really good rim Protecting. BIG i, mean
if you could have given Him Brook lopez a few years,
ago that would be like the ideal sort of guy
to pair with. Him i'm higher On zion than even
either of. You here's how many names all? Go Jokiciannis,
Sga Luca, Tatum, Lebron Steph, Wemby Kadie, Aunt Anthony. Davis

(01:12:15):
this is not in, order and that's. IT i Think
i'm going eleven. NAMES i think That zion is better Than,
mobiley AND i Love mobili so so. MUCH i think
That zion is above even more, SURPRISINGLY i would think
to most People Jalen brunson DID i did Say. WEMBY

(01:12:37):
i Think wemby is Above zion for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Yeah but the guy WHO i was debating as a
twelfth Is kawhi BECAUSE i just think The kawhi is
phenomenal AND i think his game is like built to
assassinate you in the playoffs when he's, healthy because he
gets wherever he wants on the, floor and he's so
strong and he's so ridiculously good as a, shooter and
he's still a really good, defender and he's so, efficient

(01:13:00):
and he's looked. GOOD i do think that he's lost
a little something more athletically this. YEAR i don't think
he's as. QUICK i think he's really get into the
rim at a low, rate doesn't get to the, rim
doesn't get to the. Line he's Still Kawhi. Leonard So
i'm conflicted on that. One But zion is such a mega.
Force like per thirty six, minutes this guy is averaging

(01:13:23):
thirty one, points nine and a half rebounds in six
and a half Sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
It's the thing with the. Health it's the health isn't
just he'll be. Available he'll be available for ten more
minutes or eight more minutes per.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Game it's unbelievable what he's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Doing it's eight more minutes of Being LIKE i Believe
zion's like a plus eight on this stretch and then
The pelicans are like a negative eighteen with him off
of the.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Floor, yeah SO i hear he turned plus fourteen on,
off which is only surpassed By yokichen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Shape yeah if, twelve if those twelve minutes That zion
isn't on the floor is now four minutes That zion
isn't on the. Floor huge, difference huge, difference especially with
a much better team around.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Him, yeah what are you gonna Ask?

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
Logan have you guys seen that double team?

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Graft that's like going around With zion where it's, like you,
know the next most double team players twenty percent And
zion's at like twenty nine percent or something ridiculous like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
That it's JUST i think THEY'RE i think there's an
argument to be made That zion as weird as it
is because he's like six.' six he's probably the closest
Thing to shack that we. Have Seen like embiid body wise,
is there but the play style is. Dramatically Different but zion's,
Just like i'm big as fuck and there's nothing you

(01:14:41):
can do. ABOUT it, I.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
Mean i Would say shack is the greatest pure rim
pressure we've. Ever seen he's just the greatest interior at rim.
Force ever zion is the greatest rim pressure ever who
initiates from, the perimeter more So, than lebron more So.
THAN yannis, i mean he is just impossible to keep
away from. The rim NOBODY in nba history has had
that combination of unbelievable, first step being one of the

(01:15:04):
strongest dudes in, the league and being one of the
bounciest dudes in, the league and like he's just gotten better.
And better his touch has been so much better. This
YEAR he's i think close to. Fifty, percent yeah in
the paid the. RESTRICTED area i.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Think Him and shaq get underappreciated for that aspect of.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
THEIR game i, Would AGREE but i would agree.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
It's not just being big as MUCH as i did
literally just dissect it down. To that But like shaq
had a mean hook, and like for sure you'd be
surprised if you watch his old highlights they'll hit a
shot from like ten feet.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Out regularly, AND similarly i would Say that shaq is
underrated as a passer out of all these doubles and
triple teams out of. The Post and zion is a
really good passer who's improved as a passer this year a. Lot,
Better yeah and you cannot stop him, in isolation you
cannot stop him out of pick, and roll you cannot
stop him. In transition he's just one of the most

(01:15:54):
impactful offensive players in. The, sport So Like jalen brunson,
is awesome he cannot reach the efficiency Ceiling that. Zion
can and there are certain matchups where he's, very, bald
dominant and like you put a really big athletic Wing
on brunson and they can hinder his efficiency at least.
A bit they won't hinder his, volume necessarily but they

(01:16:15):
can really really make him work for. His Buckets Donovan,
mitchell monster he's really really Close, to zion and he's
so good because his scoring ceiling is so high when
the pull up jumpers on and he's getting to. The
rim but he does have some more volatility when his
pull up jumper. Isn't Going like zion in, every matchup in,
every game gets whatever he wants in that's such an

(01:16:38):
insanely special thing you kind of can't. Overstate it and
like those numbers per minute logan we mentioned this, last
week Like only Zion and jannis are hitting those per thirty.
Six numbers it's ridiculous what. HE does.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
I think i think, the ability the access to just
undeniably easy offense is the difference between great scores and
all time great scores like, you Mentioned Like donovan Mitchell And,
jalen brunson like jump shot heavy guys who, don't, HAVE
like i, don't know they have pretty good, rim pressure

(01:17:16):
but not obviously to the Extent that, Zion does like Just,
HAVING yeah i am going to get to the rim
And when, i'm there there is like a seventy percent
chance that this shot is. Going, in yeah having access,
to that Or that i'm going to go to the free,
throw line which it would help a lot if he
got a little better at that at actually, hitting them not.

(01:17:37):
Getting there he's, getting there but he. Has, year yeah
he has the access to so much easy offense so
frequently that it's there's there's very few players that you
can argue have that level of availability of. Free, points yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
It is it, Is Remarkable and i'm glad you guys
brought up the POINT because i think that's the most
Underrated thing i've Said. With zion, YOU know i think
people get this mental image in their head. Of this,
you know don't get. Me wrong, it's right like this
crazy athlete just flying through. The air but after he
absorbs that, initial contact he is so good at adjusting
and putting the exact right spin on. The ball he's

(01:18:18):
sixty seven percent in the, restricted AREA which i think
you would expect he's fifty fifty percent, excuse me in
the paint non, restricted area and you guys are talking
about that. Easy offense he's averaging nineteen points in the paint.
Per game that doesn't include any, free throw that is
just in. The PAINT and i went BACK and i

(01:18:38):
tried to look at. OTHER guys i can't confirm THIS
because i haven't looked at every player's page throughout the.
Entire list i'm pretty sure that's number one in, the
league like and For, example jokic, Is.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
It oh that's for sure number one of.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
The, league yeah sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Point six zion WASN'T wasn't sga like seventeen ish? LAST year, i,
THINK yeah i.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
BELIEVE that i. BELIEVE that i think he'd be down
a little bit this year though with the increased three,
PEOPLE volume, Sga Would but jannis is. PROBABLY close i
still think NINETEEN is sga?

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
IS fourteen i can Pull up janni's here.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Pretty quickly is this or in? The? Paint? Okay yeah there? Then,
too Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
Twenty nis actually barely edges.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Him, out yeah but let's Just give zion a few
more minutes per game and That's HIS so i want
to mention the couple guys who you Had above ZION
who i Do think zion is Clear OF mobile i
absolutely love, AND frankly i don't KNOW if i can
bring myself to even make a point. AGAINST him i
just think It's like zion is at that level of

(01:19:47):
offensive DOMINANCE where i STILL think i would slightly Prefer
both Brunson and mitchell in a playoff Environment to mobili
to add another, couple guys just because they have that.
Offensive ceiling AND then I think zion is the best
offensive player of, the group who has the most consistent
offensive floor because his physical advantages are so overwhelming Compared,
TO caid i Think that zion is actually very Clear.

(01:20:10):
OF cad i just think it comes down to a
big offensive gap between. The two mobley has his like
top tier defensive impact and then being a good. Offensive
player kate is a solid, defensive player but it's not
like there's a sizeable gap between Him and zion on.
That End in, caid's, FAVOR ah i.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
DON'T know i feel like because of the positions, they
play there is because He's like caid's a really good
defender for real. POINT guard i think because of his
size And then zion is a okay defender for. A, forward.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Yeah but it's Not like zion is anchoring your defense
where it's like super consequential and better, This year like.
He's OKAY and i Would say cad is, good DEFENSIVELY
but i think that primarily you're judging these guys off
of their offensive value. In there Just think cad is really,
really good but he has his flaws with the finishing around,

(01:21:04):
the rim with, the turnovers with some of the. Efficiency
stuff just doesn't manufacture the, easiest Offense whereas zion literally
does manufacture the easiest offense that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
There is i'm.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
With you i'm with YOU as. I was that was
THE one i was the most hesitant On because i'm
very High. ON cad I think i saw a cliff
of you guys talking. About him they, were like he's not.
TOP ten i, was like, m maybe but the access
to easy, offense thing as we've, talked, about, like yeah

(01:21:34):
he doesn't. Have that he also doesn't get to the
free throw line as much as you would like. Him
too for his volume and his three, point, shot well
it's been pretty good. THIS year i still don't trust it,
out right and that would be the huge edge that
he would have Offensively over zion as. The Shooting but
i'm still obviously it's night and day the difference between

(01:21:56):
the two. Of them, But yeah caid's not quite Like where, i'm,
like oh that's an elite shooter by.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
ANY means i Also think zion's offensive versatility is. So
valuable he can just do so many different things for
you give him the ball on so many. Different Ways
and kate is very, ball dominant WHICH partly i think is.
MAYBE situation i think definitely is, Partly SITUATION but i
also think part of it is just inherently sort of

(01:22:21):
his play style and the fact that he's not that
really high level catch and shooter where, you know he
would be a super seamless soft. BALL fit i Do
think kate. IS great i don't Think he's, zion level
and part of that IS just I think zion is.
Absolutely INSANE like I think zion is Again, above Mitchell.
Above brunson is somebody told me that They had Zion,

(01:22:42):
ABOVE ant i wouldn't think that, that's insane? Ye would
that's How good.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Zion is here's. A, question yeah let's say two years
from now and We're talking zion gets to be healthy this.
Whole time two years, from now where would he rank
if we Presume Like lebron stephen kd age out a.
LITTLE bit, i.

Speaker 4 (01:23:05):
Mean healthy zion could be. Top five he's a fucking.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Least exercise yo Get Shay, Luca, TATUM tatum i don't,
Know better.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
I'm not i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Not sure maybe THAT'S but I think i think y'all
Are doing tatum's defense and all around impact a little
bit of.

Speaker 4 (01:23:26):
A disservice I think tatum would be a lock.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
For, ME giannis i don't think we'll have. Regressed significantly
so that's Five. And WEMBY actually i think we're gonna
get closer to, ten names so now we're. At, SEVEN
personally i actually think in Two years mobili will be
Better than ZION because I think mobili still has so

(01:23:49):
much game he can grow into offensively Somebody like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Zion, has defensively, you could, you COULD.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
But i Think that mobley. HAS more, I mean i
think the improvement that we've seen from him just, this
year now that he's really in a system that is
incentivizing him to, contribute offensively with the coach who's Empowering
him mobley keeps getting better as, a shooter keeps getting
more comfortable as a, ball handler even better as. A
playmaker i think that ceiling. Is terrifying it's not, a,

(01:24:22):
lock THOUGH but i would probably bet.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
On it You give zion, HEALTH though i think he's.
A lock i think he is a consensus top.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
Ten, player, YEAH yeah i think he. WOULD be, i mean,
YOU know i want To. MENTION chad i think check can.
GET there i don't know if it'll be in, two
YEARS but i think he'll definitely get there at. Some
Point and cad would be in That, conversation paolo if
he figures, things out.

Speaker 4 (01:24:46):
Is a man on the fringes at all in? TWO years.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
I can't. RULE out i would not bet on it
up against Like. A zion, I mean i think a
movie ceiling is, unbelievably.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
HIGH but i think a man needs a jump shot
to crack the. Top ten doesn't, need one but well
to crack the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
Top, Ten right SO my i think with the men
has always been people freak out when they see a
wing who, can't shoot and, understandably so because IN today's
nba there are very very few guys who succeed in.
That archetype there also are no guys who are as
absurdly good at so many things around that as A,
men thompson where you're a one to, one athlete absolutely,
elite rebounder god to your, transition player, elite defender good

(01:25:28):
playmaking feels. So like That's why i've always thought he's
a lot to be a really. GOOD player i think
he will be a top twenty five player if his
shot doesn't get better. From here to be a top,
TEN player i do think his shot would have to
improve so he could become a more really really high
level on. BALL threat i think the shot has to,
be GREAT but i think it would have to be.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
MORE solid i think the encouraging sign for him there
is that the floater, Is real like he's not like
inept in the, Touch, Department.

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
No no in the free throw shooting has been, very
solid and he's been decent from, mid range like shoots
in the, high thirties and he's comfortable shooting mid range.
Pull ups he's gotten a lot better compared to. Last
year like last year he was a zero shooter and
now he's like still a below, average shooter but not a,
Terrible one so he could. Be logan he could be

(01:26:23):
a top TEN but i don't KNOW that i would bet.
On it, BUT yeah I think zion probably if he
stays healthy in a couple, of years right around that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
TEN spot, I.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
Mean donovan mitchell isn't, going anywhere a lot of these
guys aren't. Going ANYWHERE but i Already think zion's Better.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Than mitchell LAST thing i want, to MENTION and i Pray,
to god this is not the kiss Of death i'm
about to Put.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
On zion but he looks please. Don't please he looks
like he's in great shape right like he.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Looks apparently he's the lowest weight that he's been playing
with since he's been IN.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
The nba it looks like, It too And so I'm
just i'm not going wood. Real quick i'm hopeful that
this is a positive signal things.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
To come do you want me to rip that hope
out of your heart? REAL quick. I am i am
mildly fearful that what we're Seeing from zion is he, Was,
LIKE okay i finally have enough motivation because my contract
is on. The line i'll IM sure i get that
money And then i'm going right Back. To cheetos and. Porn, stars.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
Well but he has an extension for a few years, from, Now, right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Well his money was, not guaranteed and he had like weigh,
ins in like, games played requirements that he had to like,
FOR like i think tens of millions of dollars were on.
The Line so, i'm like is that the reason that
you finally got? In shape do you not intrinsically just
have the motivation to be a good? Basketball player because
that would suck if that's. THE case i would also

(01:27:50):
love if, he, was, like huh being one of the
best players IN the nba is kind. OF fun I
think i'm gonna keep. Doing, THAT god i would hope
he chooses.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
The ladder the sad part of it's all IS like
i am never going to Bet on zion remaining healthy
for an, extended stretch which Is why i'm trying to
make the most out of this awesome stretch where he
is healthy and he's playing the best basketball of his
life and we can appreciate the monumental talent that. He is,

(01:28:18):
BUT like i think if you just look at the
most likely outcome based on what we've seen, so far
like he's going to get, HURT again.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
I tend to hate how much we do like weight discourse,
about players ESPECIALLY because i think that you kind of
get in this vicious cycle because when weight is, an
ISSUE and i can Relate to zion the ability to
put on twenty pounds in, two weeks if you don't,
pay attention he, gets overweight and then that causes him to,

(01:28:49):
get hurt and because he's hurt and he's, not playing
he gets. More Overweight, where like if he can just
keep the weight down the, old time it just needs to.
Stay down if it, STAYS down i think the injury
problem becomes dramatically reduced way less likely to be a.

(01:29:09):
Huge issue but if the weight, comes back we're right
back to.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
Square one the hard thing, is like even when his weight,
is down he's still six six 't two, sixty five
playing one of the most athletically dependent and physically taxing brands,
of basketball, AND like i still worry that that's a
lot of strain on your. Lower body it's not as
much as when he's two eighty, five plus but his

(01:29:35):
play style is not one that is built for there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Is devity there's a lot of Discourse About ja moran
and him like. Not, Dunking obviously jaw is Dunking and zion.
Is DUNKING but i Do think zion maybe it's a,
conscious choice or maybe his vertical just isn't what it used.
To BE but i do think he plays pretty low to,
the ground WHICH.

Speaker 3 (01:29:56):
Is i do you think? IT'S conscious i do think.
It's CONSCIOUS and i think that that's a. Good point
like he doesn't get all the way to the rim
at the same obscene rate that he. Used to he
still gets there, a lot but he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
Following himself he's not throwing himself to the. Rim RECKLESSLY like.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
I, agree yeah he's still though he is like downhill
over and over and over it at six sixth somewhere
between two sixty five and two.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
EIGHTY five i think it would maybe help if he
had a little bit less ball, handling responsibility just a
little BIT more. I watch I love zion as, a
playmaker but in an ideal world he's a, secondary playmaker
and then he has someone to set him up. A
lot that would be another WAY to, i think take
some of the strain off. Of, Him yeah, but unfortunately

(01:30:41):
as much as we love, to hypothesize the odds are
high that we're not going to see top TEN players
i on, Maybe ever god hopefully that's not, the case, especially, because,
like yeah the face of the league conversation has been
so over the top. And annoying it's a Conversation because
zion didn't. Work Out if zion just came INTO the

(01:31:03):
nba and was as good as he, was immediately it
might not have helped it that he was On The New,
orleans pelicans but, you know dude would have been the
face OF the nba and then it just. Didn't happen it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
Really sucks you mentioned that discourse that has been very
prevalent as, of late which is kind of a. Weird
THING so i was just curious as to your. Guys
thoughts why do you THINK the nba world is so
obsessed with finding that next face of. The league why
is this such a dire concern for so. MANY people i.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
Have an interesting take on. THIS one, i think, oh.
Uh obvious the reason that people are looking for a
face of the league is we have historically operated. That
way LIKE the nba was on the verge of Failure
when Magic and bird, got drafted they had the most
watched basketball game ever at that point in time when

(01:31:57):
they played in, the championship they. Get aft did they
go to the biggest rivalry in the, sport anyways two
of the biggest most popular franchises in the, sport anyways
and they lift up the league to what it. Is
now and then right as there out, The Door michael jordan,
comes In And michael JORDAN is i Don't Think michael

(01:32:18):
jordan will ever be eclipsed in terms of the strength
of how much he was the face of. The League
even lebron at his height did not BRING the nba
the level of Popularity that, jordan, did which to, Be
fair jordan was bringing it from a. Lower point, you
know there's only so many. Damn people But then jordan.
Goes out lebron comes in pretty. Quickly after but the years,

(01:32:42):
in between and the years where It was wizards mj
were really. Pretty Brutal the Lakers had Kobe and, shack to,
you know bring some, a lure but otherwise the rest
of the league saw ratings declines and all. OF that
i think the reason that the face of the league
discourse AND the nba is. Getting WORSE the nba is.

(01:33:04):
FAILING discourse i think it's because the people who talk
about this shit need it to be good to keep paying.
Their bills, Straight, up like there are so many people who,
are like, oh shit because when the NBA's ratings, are
down my views. Are down that's it's a direct correspondence.
With THAT so i think the personal aspect of it

(01:33:26):
is bleeding into the discourse in a way that people are. Not,
considering obviously there are People on twitter who are just
talking about this for the fun, of it but the
discourse is driven, by, creators analysts all, of that and
they all have a personal stake in the league. Doing
better so they're looking at numbers, going down, they're like,
oh fuck my. Career's over so, there's that and then the.

(01:33:48):
OTHER thing i think the reason why the conversation is
DUMB is i don't think the current culture allows for
a face of. THE league i don't think there can
be a true individual guy who is the face OF
the NBA because i think there's just too much diversity
of opinion. And discourse and like before you had the

(01:34:12):
face of the league spoon fed to you by, the
media it was they were, an intermediary where rather the
basketball and its reaction to it is raw from the
audience immediately online there is a public forum to pick
apart every, little thing so it makes the attractiveness of
being the face of the league, significantly Worse as lebron has.

(01:34:35):
Talked ABOUT but i also just think where society cannot
focus on one thing, long enough we have to move.
On CONSTANTLY so i just don't think there's gonna be
a guy who's the face OF the nba for a,
decade anymore at least not as the way discourse works stays.

Speaker 4 (01:34:55):
The, same YEAH and I want i agree with a
lot of what.

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
YOU said I think i, THINK one i don't think
we're gonna have a new face of, the league so,
to Speak until. Lebron exits lebron is such a superstar
and such a global figure that he's the guy until.
HE'S gone i don't really, you know there's a lot
of other GUYS.

Speaker 4 (01:35:13):
Who i think Him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
And, steph YEAH basically.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
I was gonna say there's GUYS who i think maybe
have held the. Mantle briefly if It, was steph if IT, was.
Kd whoever lebron is still.

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
That GUY but i think you touched on it a.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
LITTLE bit i don't think necessarily we, need it and
that's why it's so confusing, to me IS because i
think the product is so good and so. Well ROUNDED
and i, JUST again i think people draw the wrong
conclusions about. The ratings the reason the ratings are down
or not because people are not watching. The sport the
reason the ratings are down is because people aren't watching

(01:35:46):
the sport through.

Speaker 4 (01:35:47):
Measurable metrics all of your metrics are coming FROM the.
Tv numbers people DON'T watch. Tv anymore people go on, their.

Speaker 1 (01:35:55):
Computer they find the website and they.

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
Stream it and, IT'S like, I think. I wouldn't. I
wouldn't i wouldn't steal. A person i wouldn't steal. A,
handbag okay.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
JUST checking i do think that's easily the biggest problem
in the, ratings DISCUSSION but. I don't we don't need
to go down this rabbit Hole because i've done it a.
Million TIMES but i JUST think i THINK the nba
has dropped the ball on. PRESENTATION dramatic i agree.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
WITH that i, think PRESENTATION and i also just think
the overall toxicity within, the sport and it's really disheartening,
to me very.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Negativity, skew yeah and it's.

Speaker 4 (01:36:31):
Not just a.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Unique problem TO. THE nba i think it's a unique problem.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Or not it's a, unique, Problem true oh my, gosh
too people people like the couple will post a photo
of Themselves on twitter and now. It's discourse there are
dozens of quote tweets with one hundred thousand likes about why.
They suck it's, just like why why is this how?

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
We?

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
Exist now why are we analyzing and being critical about
every aspect of anything anyone? Ever does it makes it
very exhausting to participate in any kind, Of DISCOURSE and
i damn well wouldn't want to be the center. Of
it LIKE we've i assume you guys have had a
tweet that's just like fuck this fucking guy and it

(01:37:15):
has three, hundred likes and, you're, LIKE oh I guess.
I'm sad i'm.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
UNIVERSALLY beloved i. Can't Relate, But, logan logan, you, ACTUALLY
well i actually run an account that just tweets, fuck
you so you do. Have that, but yeah. IT'S awesome i.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
LOVE it i agree with. YOU fundamentally i think it's. A.
Problem man we live in, a.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Society, FELLOWS yeah i was gonna say to like THE
w nba, as well where it's like people just have
to hate and that's something that's. Frustrating me where you'll
hear these, cait yeah these. Old Players and i've watched
a lot of. WOMEN'S basketball i enjoy watching college. Women's basketball.

Speaker 4 (01:37:51):
Caitlyn, women, Yeah, women.

Speaker 3 (01:37:55):
Hey big ups to. Women everybody we got about two percent,
women following depending on, the platform some places up. To
four we're looking to.

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
Double that big, time feminists big time feminists here At
nerd sesh. Love women it's like WHEN old wnba players
will Hate On caitlin clark and, it's, LIKE well i
don't know what you guys. Are Watching caitlyn clark's the
best women's Basketball player i've, ever watched and so to
get people to watch, the sport, to me it's. VERY
simple i would prop her UP and i would, tell

(01:38:25):
people this is the greatest women's Basketball player i've. Ever
watched you gotta see. This shit what she's doing has
never been. Done before and, TO that i, would say
is that's how we need to package it TO the.
Nba audience but when You PAY. Steven a smith and
one hundred million dollar contract to spew negativity and to
continue peddling, this BULLSHIT that i think people are simply.

(01:38:46):
OVER with i don't give a Fuck WHAT. Steven a
smith has to Say About, BRONNIE again i. Don't care
i'd rather him tell me about SOMETHING that i, haven't
heard or Prop up Victor, wembon yama or Prop Up
anthony Edwards or that's my problem is basically just inherently
still the coverage THAT the nba gets and the focal
point on negativity when, it's like it's so much easier

(01:39:07):
we could talk about all the it's a it's a world.
IN general, i mean it's it's what. You spotlight what
you highlight is what's gonna get. Discussed about and if
we continue talking about the sport in a, negative way
well guess what the audience is going to view with
through that lens. As well it's just incredibly frustrating as
a guy who.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
Loves basketball you're also Just not you're not just competing with. Other,
leagues theoretically you're competing with GOING On hbo max and putting.
On successions this is SUCCESSIONS On, hbo, Max, right yeah
going watching you know a movie or, you know scrolling
TikTok whatever it, may, be like, you're competing you have

(01:39:46):
to be more entertaining, than that not just more entertaining
than what you used, to be or more entertaining in other.
Sports leagues like there is more content now to a
point where nothing can stand out on, Its OWN like
i even think think of just like the landscape of
YouTube or movies, And MEDIA like i think the closest
thing to like a show being the face of Television,

(01:40:09):
was succession and that didn't really quite. Catch, it like
we haven't had Something Like breaking bad dominating the shows
guys than a very.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Long, time yeah like the nineties Bulls like seinfeld or something.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Like that, What right like just undeniably huge. And focal
nothing gets that big of a. Stage.

Speaker 3 (01:40:29):
Anymore no one hundred and six million people watch the
Finale of mash in nineteen. EIGHTY three i Think like
succession averaged four to six million viewers or somewhere. In
THERE and i think that that's a. Great point that's
SOMETHING that i try to reiterate whenever this conversation. Comes
up the world is full of. Niches now there is

(01:40:50):
so much more competition constantly. With content back in, THE
day i mean just the raw number of channels that
you HAD on tv was, way SMALLER and tv is
now competing with so many other platforms WITHIN which, i,
mean look we got a, Podcast here there's a million
other dudes, with podcasts, and like it just. Doesn't end

(01:41:10):
the options. Don't end so it's not surprising when it's
incredibly difficult to hold the same mainstream cultural space that
you used to twenty years ago because everything is more distributed.

Speaker 1 (01:41:24):
TO now i just want to add two to that
POINT that i also think THAT the tv ratings numbers
cannot only be misleading because of, the STREAMING but i
also think the game of basketball lends itself Sometimes TO
even i WATCH the nba every single night that, it's,
on Right sometimes i'll go Back and i'll watch a
GAME that i didn't watch that isn't going to get
represented in, that total because, you KNOW maybe i wanted

(01:41:46):
to speed through, this GAME maybe i wanted to to zip.

Speaker 4 (01:41:49):
Through it that number isn't going to.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
Get CALCULATED and i think it can be a little
misleading because you can't watch all the games every. Single night,
you know basketball is it's an easier sport to go back, and,
Watch Right, IT'S yeah i think it's unique in that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
WAY too i actually rarely only when it's. Big GAMES
do i actually watch? Games LIVE because i like to
use the all possessions thing because it just speeds you
through all the bullshit. Is awesome there are, you know
the occasional moment where it cuts out something that would
have been nice, to see but it's like ninety. Percent
good so it's, just, like YEAH do i want to

(01:42:24):
sit down for two and a half hours listen TO
the tnt crew say a bunch of, dumb shit OR
do i want to just watch the game in the
morning forty Minutes and? I'm? Done, yeah yeah but that's
that's probably more of a content creator.

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
Thing, thing, YEAH well i, ACTUALLY agree i mean highlights the.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
Next day i'm just like to what, you guys, you're
saying it's harder to compete with things that are that
are LIVE when i do have that kind of access
to a sporting event the, day after.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
And people's attention spans are so, bad now like they
want it very, consult colidated like whether it's all possessions
or it's ten minute. Highlight compilation IT'S like i can
watch this whole. Game, roughly again if you're a, content
creator that does not, Pass right you know it's not
good enough to watch a ten, minute highlight but it
is if you're just. A, guy.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
YEAH yeah i think circling back to the main, question
here not just looking at, the ratings why is there
this obsession with finding a new face of. The, LEAGUE
specifically i think you made a, Good, point jacob and
that historically major difference BETWEEN the nba AND the Nfl
is the value IN the nfl is in the, Team

(01:43:38):
brands it is in the logo on. Your helmet the
value IN the nba is about. The superstars the players
are just so much. More, visible historically they've had, bigger
personalities their impact on the game, is bigger.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
Their place there isn't a helmet obscuring. Their faces in.

Speaker 3 (01:43:54):
A helmet obscuring their, Face exactly there's no such equivalent
for a superstar, left tackle which is not a very
visible or fun position for the average person to watch IN.
THE nba a star IN the nba is a star
who is going to draw attention and is going to
be a big driver for whatever team they're on in.
The league, and obviously like it's an entire phenomenon IN

(01:44:16):
today's nba for people to just stand players for them
to follow players from team to team because they're that compelled.
BY them i think you made a really good point
about the fact that this is not a landscape that
is going to necessarily create that sort of universal face
like we used. To see part of, THAT is i

(01:44:37):
Think legitimately, Stan, culture like especially in these, online spaces
people are so attached to. Their GUY an ant fan
will never Concede that shay is Better than ant and
will never Think that shay is the face of, the
league even if a couple of years down the line
that seems like it clearly should be. The case there's
just so many divided loyalties with all. Of, this again

(01:45:00):
it comes back to the same idea and everything is.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
More niche there's also the nationalism aspect, of it the,
gate keeping the gatekeeping gatekeeping it to be Strictly an american,
me Personally and I'M just i don't. Get it i've
never understood judging people so much by where they, come
from so much as just who. They are, you know,

(01:45:24):
you existence where you, were born the circumstances you were
born into is a fucking. Dice roll you could have
just as easily woken Up In, iraq okay it is
says nothing about the person you are other than how it.
Influenced you and Someone like Victor. Webin Yama if Victor
webin yama can't be the face of, the league, nobody

(01:45:46):
can because there is nobody who is more of a
spectacle and such, a good solid dude anytime you listen to.
Him talk first, of all speaks Great, fucking english not
even a hint of not being able To speak It speaks,
English great and he's so down to earth. AND real

(01:46:06):
i could only pray to have been as solid of
a Person as victor is at the age. Of twenty
i'm sure as. Shit wasn't he checks every single box Except,
He's french and, to me that is. So whack and because,
of that because the game has become more dominated by,

(01:46:29):
foreign players if we can't let any, of them even
if Someone's, fucking canadian which is Barely, not american even
that is not. Good enough it's not good enough for so. Many,
people YEAH and i don't fucking. Get IT but i
also feel like Guys LIKE. Steven a smith GOING on
tv and saying that the face of the league can't Not,

(01:46:50):
be american rich. Crazy, can't yeah reinforces, like that and
it's like you. YOU is i can't emphasize enough how
much the MAN mainstream nba media creates self. Fulfilling prophecies
they say something is the way that, it is and
then it becomes. That way and because they, said that
people attached.

Speaker 4 (01:47:09):
TO it i, completely, AGREE man.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
I could not.

Speaker 3 (01:47:11):
Agree more and, in fact this is the big POINT
that i was. BUILDING to i just think that's the.
Craziest thing wemby is the generational Prospect That lebron. James
was he is that once every few. Decades prospect he
is every bit as jaw dropping to Watch what lebron
had with his one of one athleticism. And playmaking wemby
is seven foot four with an eight Foot, wing spanish

(01:47:33):
shoots nine threes, a game makes thirty six percent of
him blocks four shots, a game does things nobody else
in the history of the game has been. Capable of
and like, YOU said, i mean he's not some, crazy
Personality but. LEBRON isn't I think wemby's actually more Interesting
than lebron as. A, PERSON like i think that there
is a lot to Like, about wemby and that's SOMETHING

(01:47:55):
that i do think people talk about missing with the,
older nbas you had some, more, unpolished raw. Authentic personalities
you Had An. Alan iverson now everybody's so. Media trained
now you have aunt who go. Out there you got.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
TO be i think that's a byproduct Of the internet
and just needed to be totally be a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:48:13):
Buttoned up and everything is. SO huge, i mean there's
just so much. At stake it's such a crisis if
you say something that is a story because there's so
much media that's gonna feed off, of that and so that's.
A reality, to me it's not a. Big deal but,
behind yeah, go, ahead no.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
GO ahead i was, gonna say you KNOW how I
know victor is that type of player where it's just
as jaw dropping as you can SEE of i don't
know if if you guys are single, or not but
if you've ever gone through the process of showing your
girlfriend who does not give a shit about, Basketball highlights,
I'm like i'm, telling, you babe this is. REALLY cool
i put on a ten minute highlight Compilation of Victor.

(01:48:53):
Webin yama she sat there and watched every minute of
it in awe, and like if she can, See, that
yeah anyone who, likes sports can, you Said, like lebron
he's as big of a Spectacle, SINCE lebron i, would
argue just because he literally looks like he's from, another
planet he is even more of a spectacle than maybe

(01:49:15):
any basketball player. EVER was i.

Speaker 3 (01:49:18):
Think that's a totally reasonable thing, to say and that's
why it just boggles my mind that him being internationally
born is a disqualifier in this conversation to a lot,
of people like everybody is Turning. To tatum, they're saying
the face of the league is right in front. Of
us those who are saying there is somebody waiting in
the Wings that, i'm seeing they're All Saying. Jason tatum and, It's,
like okay you're just defaulting to The best american player

(01:49:40):
of this generation for the face.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
Of the league if you're not one of the three
best players minimum in. THE league.

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
I agree, I agree, and Also, LIKE steph i think
the reason that he became such a global sensation it's
not just how great, he is it's also like that
one of oneerience that you have as. A viewers nothing
Like watching steph and some of the other absolute best
players in the world today who are. Foreign born jannis

(01:50:10):
is a one of one experience as. A, viewer jokic
the fact that it was a thing for years that
people said he was boring blows. My mind one of
one experience as a VIEWER in, Nba history shay one of.
One experience like those dudes are not only Greater, than
tatum they are also such unique. Basketball talents.

Speaker 4 (01:50:30):
It's just sh Is.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
Just kobe, it's okay that's that's. Obviously reductive but he. Plays,
well okay.

Speaker 3 (01:50:37):
All right shay is not. As unique he is not
as unique As a Yannis or yokic in terms of.
THE talent i still think that the combination, of balance,
body control the Way that, shane moves his change, in
pace all of that being put in that six six
slithery ass body with his finishing and his pull up

(01:50:57):
shooting in his BAG like i am in AWE when i.
Watched it he's my favorite scorer. To, WATCH ever i
certainly think he's a lot more fun to watch than.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
Did know he was a free.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
Throw merchant, fuck god you can't enjoy watching.

Speaker 2 (01:51:13):
Him anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:51:14):
HE sucks i, just realized because he shoots nine free throws.
A game he scores thirty three points. Per game what
would he do without the? FREE throws i. Don't know
he'd probably be working at.

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
A McDonald's i'm actually working on a long form deep
dive video right now about the foul. MERCHANT discourse i ran.
The numbers the average there's been eighty four thirty point
per game seasons. In history the average between that from
the spectrum is thirty two and a. Half points the
average free throw attempts per game for thirty two and

(01:51:46):
a half points. Is ten he's below, that average and
he's the face of being free a three. THROW merchant
i think we just need someone to. Call that and
We Had james harden and then It Was, joel embiid
And Now joel. Embiid's GONE so sga is the, foul
merchant even though it doesn't make any fucking sense.

Speaker 3 (01:52:09):
AT all i could not. Agree more we've gone through
the numbers here. As well and it's not just that
he's well below average for a score of this volume
in terms of his free. Throw rate he is also
in the absolute top tier in terms of shot making
effective field goal percentage putting the ball in the basket
on a. Field goal he is one of the best we've,

(01:52:31):
ever seen so that narrative makes.

Speaker 1 (01:52:33):
No sense but he's also tops in your drives, per
game and, it's, like Yeah, got god what a coincidence
the game by.

Speaker 3 (01:52:39):
Far he drives twenty two times a game he. GETS
fouled i WENT and i looked at the guys who
get the top free throw percentage on, their drives the
guys who are fouled the most, on Drives and shay
isn't in the. Top eight, he's high but he's not.
Outlier high whatsoe.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
Else you've dm me those numbers that would be great for?
THE video, I will, I will. I will it's actually.

Speaker 3 (01:52:59):
Really interesting pollo gets fouled on like seventeen percent of
his drives.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
Getting downhill the NUMBER that i ran it is seventy
one percent of thirty point per game seasons the player
averaged more ATTEMPTS than sga does from the line seventy.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
One percent and this is one of the great downhill
guards ever who's driving.

Speaker 4 (01:53:19):
Multiple time, but no you never hear it's. Never packaged Is?

Speaker 1 (01:53:23):
Shake gilgess alexander's One of god's greatest scorers to ever walked.

Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
The earth it seems a free. Throw, merging yeah all of.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
This, TO say i think it is so incredible how
much international talent. HAS blossomed i think it is the
REASON the nba is as amazing as it. Is today
so many of the best players in the league are
coming from outside Of The. United states the skill level,
is higher the depth of talent, is higher the superstars,

(01:53:50):
are better and we have a richer group of them than.
Ever before and so much of that is because this
game has grown to become this incredible. Global thing and by,
THE way i think THAT the nba media has Such
an american centric perspective with so many of these discourses
ratings to, begin with do not incorporate anything outside OF,

(01:54:11):
the us which is how so much of the sport is.
Consumed today that's a huge. Blind spot and this whole
thing about face of, The League yao ming was arguably
the face of the League In kobe bryant's prime because
for a country of over one, billion.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
People he was the face, To.

Speaker 3 (01:54:27):
THEM right i think stuff like that goes. Completely ignored
and maybe it's, just cause like, GROWING up i was
always a huge, Tennis fan so LIKE if i was
going to be a tennis FAN and i was going to,
BE like i only Like. THE americans i was in
for a, rough, time man because, they're just, you know
weren't a lot Of great. American players it's a, global

(01:54:50):
sport And so i've never had that tendency to just
attach myself strictly To these americans, and say these are
the Guys who i'm. All ABOUT and i think that
that's very limiting if you do view it. That way,
and uh it's a very very strange thing. To me
and the weirdest one maybe, is that like people Haven't

(01:55:10):
embraced janniss, that guy EVEN though I think jokic is.
BETTER personally i Enjoy watching jokic More like yannis has
that crazy athleticism that appeals to sort of the median
or more. Casual fan he's got. The personality he's, a funny.
Outgoing guy, chicken, Dinner Yeah winter winter. Chicken dinner get
him as. Fifty nuggets And, he's greek so he's not

(01:55:35):
the face of.

Speaker 2 (01:55:35):
The LEAGUE like i think his accent's. Too thick that's
literally what, It. Is therapeople that's the that's that's what.
That is that's my Thing on wemby Is like wemby
if you Told me Wemby, Was american i'd. Believe you
he sounds like he sounds like He's an american if
he needed. To be, YOU know i could understand if
there's like a heavy thick accent or they literally don't speak,

(01:55:58):
the language that is a barrier that is going to
be hard. For people, but like if that's not, a
problem there shouldn't be a problem. AT all i cannot
relate TO the i think it's such a. Limited worldview if, it's,
LIKE oh i can't relate to someone who's Not, from
america well. That sucks i'm sorry you live such a fucking.
Hollow existence, it's also, to me.

Speaker 3 (01:56:21):
Still a lot of emphasis placed on something other than the,
basketball product which Again maybe i'm different than, Most PEOPLE
like i come TO the nba first and foremost by
far to watch the best basketball on the planet and
what is, my opinion the most beautiful sport in. THE
planet a guy's personality off the court and. All that
i'm NOT saying i don't, Value, THAT like i think
it's great when the league has good, personalities obviously but

(01:56:44):
it's very secondary to, holy shit this is the best
basketball we've, ever seen and maybe that's. Just different maybe
a lot of people value personality MORE than, i DO
and i think that. Is fair BUT also i think
it's reflective of this condition THAT the nba, world has
where we are obsessed with talking about anything other than.

Speaker 2 (01:57:06):
The, basketball, yes, yes yes we gotta we Gotta Have KEVIN,
hart mc, the event every every, every distraction anything but
what's happening on. The court, AND yeah i, LOVE trades
i love, FREE agency i fucking. LOVE drama i love
when players are being teddy with. EACH other i love

(01:57:28):
all of. Those things it's my it is my favorite
aspect of the game first. And foremost but that comes
after in terms of it. Actually existing it comes after.
The basketball and as long as the basketball, is good
everything else should come after it and. Be fine but
we're putting the cart before, the horse worrying about. The
ship that isn't what's on.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
THE floor, I agree, i agree any other thoughts before
we let, You go jacob for giving us two hours of,
your TIME.

Speaker 2 (01:57:56):
And i had a. Great time there's no problem, with
THAT and i think that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:58:01):
All right that's. All folks everybody go Check. Out jacob
that's rusty, buckets everywhere and you have your two, YouTube
channels you have your deep dive account that.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
You're managing three now three look.

Speaker 3 (01:58:12):
At me, fucking up fucking up the out useless piece
of SHIT that. I am so go check them. All
out You've Got. Rusty buckets you've Got Also rusty buckets
or the main one or the. BIGGEST one i was
deep Dive With. Rusty buckets you're doing all the. Deep
dives what's the?

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
Third one the third one Is Called Little, rusty BUCKETS
where i make eight to ten minute videos on SHIT
that i just wouldn't make a video. On otherwise So like, i'm,
LIKE yeah i can quickly capitalize on Like A luca
trades that almost. Happened video here's me reacting To A

(01:58:45):
Stephen a smith clip, real quick like just just some,
bottom tier, you, know slop so that we have, a.

Speaker 3 (01:58:53):
No, no no, my friend you don't know how low
the bottom. Tier goes if you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
That it was essentially the theory is just we have
three tiers of. Content, Quality Yeah rusty buckets channel is
right down. The middle, deep dives really. High Quality Little,
rusty buckets come get. YOUR filth i.

Speaker 3 (01:59:12):
LOVE it i. Love it it's a. Phenomenal, formula logan
YOU and i are just doing all filth at, this.
Point huh but maybe someday we'll get out of. The
gutter maybe someday we'll be in that mid tier. Complete,
SLOP god. I, hope well if you want all of,
our slop it's everywhere. Baby YouTube we got all of our.
Full shows we also have our own video essays where
we go deeper into one topic. Film breakdowns i'm working

(01:59:33):
on a Video about jokic and the crazy defensive coverages
he's seeing. Right now that should be up today OR
otherwise i will be Bad and logan will punish me,
For that so stay tuned. For that listen to the
show across all, audio platforms and if, you want follow
us across, Social, TikTok instagram, at, Nerd, sash twitter, at,
nerd underscore sessh to see clips from, the show graphics from,

(01:59:53):
the show and of course all of our short form.
Trivia content so one last shout Up to jacob go
Check Out rusty. Buckets everywhere obviously, phenomenal STUFF and i
think his performance today on the pod should sell you
on going out and checking all of his content if you,
aren't already which you, probably are but, with that, As
always I've Been, Carson braber.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
I've Been, Logan camden I've been jacob

Speaker 3 (02:00:17):
And this was nerd sesh

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Nerd Sesh x Rusty Bucketz - Lakers & Warriors title threats? Boston among GOAT teams?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nerd Sesh x Rusty Bucketz - Lakers & Warriors title threats? Boston among GOAT teams?