Steve Stoute Part 1

Steve Stoute and Shannon Sharpe embark on their journey to Queensbridge Projects in New York, unearthing tales that led to the legendary careers of Nas and Steve. The episode kicks off with a hilarious FaceTime call to Nas from the very projects that shaped he and Steve’s lives, sharing laughs and memories with the neighborhood crew. Steve then guides Shannon through a tour of his office, dropping gems about the time Men In Black sunglasses overshadowed Will Smith’s album and revealing the untold story of Kobe Bryant living with him at 18. The anecdotes keep rolling as Steve spills the beans on being behind LeBron infamously rejecting a $10 million check while in high school, Allen Iverson's elusive Reebok commercial appearance and the transformative impact of hip-hop on Reebok's brand image thanks to Jay-Z and 50 Cent. The episode delves deep into Steve's entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing equity, ownership, and the ethos behind starting United Masters. From the rich hip-hop history of Queens to the intricacies of legendary rap beefs, Steve Stoute shares his insights with wit, wisdom, and a touch of humor, making this first half a rollercoaster ride through the iconic tales of the music and sports industry. Don't miss out on the laughter, lessons, and legendary stories that unfold in Part 2 of the conversation with the one and only Steve Stoute.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I grabbed the gun.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
He said, way, that's the guy that makes Big Small's beef.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
I was gonna say, look out where he told the
story how style came up. He here like he owned
the place bad. He about to get aired out.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Say to say that that's different. It's different.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Now you asked me how did you first meet nas
Everyone wanted to work with them, but no one can
find it. My job was to find it, and I
ran into these guys and it didn't start off so healthy.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
So take him through the story. Where were we?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And this is the corner where now I took the
picture of Illmatic. This is the same corner that he's
looking at in the picture where his face is a
little kid. And this is that corner we so you know,
me and man crack on this corner.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
This was a legend that we corner.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
People went to jail, fought shot to death, robberies, everything
happened right here. We're walking down so Stout parked like
right here, and he got out the car and it
was like a walk You can walk.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Through the grass. This gate wasn't here. Now, the game
wasn't there, ain't being but you can.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Walk through this grass or walk around since he cut
through the grass. That meant he was aggressive, you know
what I mean? That meant he might be coming the
row bus. We sitting on the bench and pull like
he's pulling up, like he fucking like he like here here,
he's a nice neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
To pull up? Hey, hey, do you know where I
see her?

Speaker 4 (01:32):
And shit?

Speaker 5 (01:33):
Shit?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
How you rolling nobody else? Hood? You don't know nobody?
Who are you supposed to do? Call? Who do you call?
And now he pulls over.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Now my heart started being I'm like, for real, he's
pulling over. He must he must want this ship. And
now I'm like, yo, you know, I sat down. Poo booms,
the gun is down there. You know what I mean,
I'm like, y, all right, what is he gonna do?
He got out that car and cut through the grass.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
I grabbed the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I said, yo, everybody look out, and Wiz said no.
He said, wait, that's the guy that makes Biggie small speed.
He made one more chance.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
He's looking for nuts. He made one more chance for Biggie.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
And I said, what you You went over there and
talked to him in the middle, and you told me
to chill.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
And if you wasn't dead, bro. You know what I mean.
There's been nuts. You know what I mean. Hi, my
name is Steve Stout. He said, Yo, I'm just looking
for NICs. I want to manage him. He said. I
don't want to see him with mad.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Skills and not making no money behind their skills.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
He said, I'm here to change that. He said, I
want to talk to nine. I said, John, I was
gonna say, look out wizz now, I was gonna definitely Hi.
You appreciate we appreciate that ex friends I ever had

(02:52):
in my life. I love him so much. We've been
through mad ship. This is not his brother. I don't
know if you picked up on all that real talk.
What is his brother? Hey, I don't live out here
no more.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
I'm no mo.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
You're not. You love me forever, you know, but you
don't know some little nigga make you know. I was young.
I was pressing anybody. Right, it's Christmas, moms. It's just simple.
You don't know what it's the hood, you know what
I mean, it's the project. You can't predict the project.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Right.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
This is where I'm from. I lived. I lived in
that building over there.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I grew up out here and everything but I'm going
now and I'm gone. That's what's.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
There.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
You aren't know my style outside, you know, you don't
where we are. You know, I'm not sick. Boy.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
What's up, dude. I'm doing great, man. I'm out here
with your brother, with people from the Bridge, bro.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
I appreciate that. So it's saying in sharp where they
used to tackle you at over there, they was tackling
Looney Money and Mayo. He was so hard over there
was crazy, man. They made you cry. Man. He told
the story.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
And Stout came up in here like he owned the place.
Badd he about to get airried out.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
I heard about that. He had a lot of heart.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
That's a lot of questions about us early in the beginning,
and I really said that a lot of it stemmed
from how we met. Just you knew what I was,
you know, my determination, and that determination led to a
friendship that slashed twenty eight years. That's absolutely, man, Yeah, absolutely,
the brother always wanted.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Like the president. Yeah yeah, yeah, it really. It really
really talked to me and got me under, got me focused, man.
So I appreciate you, Steve. It's amazing that y'all went
out there. I can't believe. I can't believe Shannon Shopping's
right here.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
You for that, you know what I'm saying, that saying
he's a real world Hey, brother, people they long, they
will holler when I got out the trunk that man.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I'm good. They say you winning them super Bowls
and shit out here. I appreciate that. Man, you may
end up in the verse.

Speaker 5 (05:34):
Now all my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice hustle
paed the price. Want a slice? Got the brother did
all my life. I've been grinding all my life, all
my life and drowning.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
All my life.

Speaker 5 (05:49):
Sacrifice hustle pa the price, one slice got the broad
all my life.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I've been grinding all my life. Bro man, man, we
got you in Brooklyn, Man, thank you, bron.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Look summer time shot on the boat. Me and the
guys like in our next moves for this is a
lot of.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Awards we had won. That's j.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, jay Z Sneaker did those are the Pharrells the
original ice creams?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
He did those. It's mostly advertising awards and you got
the billboards. Yeah, maybe got look maybe we got some
hard man man. Yeah, we we We've done a good job. Right.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
This is where it really took off for me, Shannon.
You know, I did the Men in Black soundtrack that
was great. That was like a Will Smith comeback album
because music changed on a Wu Tang Biggie Nas that
came in and sort of like happy rap was kind
of off to the size. And then because but what
was a movie star and we made Men in Black
and the song went crazy changed his music career, got

(07:08):
him back.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
But the thing about this that was nuts is that
the album sold.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Ten million, but the glasses so more wow and we
never got paid from the glasses. And the small advertising
agency that did the product placement for the glasses. I
spent time with them and literally over the next three years,
I left the music business and got into advertising. That's
how I got into advertising because I'm like, if you could,
if the music could sell all these glasses, imagine what

(07:34):
I could do if I left the music business and
focused on the product. And that's why I made the
jay Z sneaker and the Pharrell sneaker and the g
Unit sneakers. I started trying to make products because I
thought that we could use the music and that's where
that's kind of where we are today. But I was
back on that, so you was doing the collab before
the collab was cool. It wasn't even a collab, it
was it was more. It was to me it was obvious, man, Like,

(07:59):
if you can culture and you could move people, why
wouldn't you sell higher margin items like you could sell
a CD for sixteen ninety nine, you could sell a sneaker.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
For one hundred and ten dollars.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right, you know what I'm saying. Right, Will Smith was
selling those glasses. He didn't get paid from the glasses either.
When Will Smith said I make these look good, those
glasses was gone. He's a very innovative businessman. Founder and

(08:31):
CEO a music industry there a multi talented marketing genius,
an industry leader and entrepreneur. Award winning record producer and
advertising executive, artist manager, New York Times bestselling author. You
were inducted into the Advertising Hall of Fame. Achievement recognizes
ad Color Awards, Innovative of the Year, Name Executive the
Year by ad Age as one of the fastest going companies,

(08:52):
most creative people in business. A guru, game changer, icon, trailblazer, visionary,
known as the Commissioner. He have the Golden touch, stay
stopped I.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Love that entry. Did I leave out anyway because my
resources are not?

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Man?

Speaker 1 (09:07):
That is good? Now you're good. You're good man. I
felt like, yeah, it was thinking can he add a
little bit more than that? But no, I mean we
could add a little bit more season, but we don't
want to overseason.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Now it was a season perfect, Okay, I appreciate that.
I don't know how many people know this, but Kobe
lived with you for six weeks. How old was he
when he lived with you?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
How old was he? He was going into his second year,
so he's about eighteen. Yeah. Yeah, And you said, is
it true that you sign Kobe to a recording contract? Yeah?
I signed Kobe to a recording contract. So to do what?
Math went? Just like this? Here, let me set up.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
When Will Smith made Men in Black and Solo these records,
the music business had changed where it was like, you know,
it was again nas Wu Tan and and and and
Biggie and sort of mob deep. It was that kind
of you know, much darker sound. Yes, right, compared to
what he was doing, he was bright as bright can get.

(10:12):
You're talking about Will Will, I'm talking about Will about Will? Right? Yeah,
So I'm like, if this guy and he wrapped over
a sample and it became supers popping successful. I'm like,
if we can do that, just maybe, but hold on,
Shaq just did it. Shock sold millions of records. Man correct,
people like he really did it.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Is not a fake thing.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Shaq had a successful recording music career. And I'm like,
if Shaq can do it, will Smith did it?

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Big Shot? Just did it?

Speaker 3 (10:42):
This kid, Kobe, People will love this guy. I mean
he went to the Problem with Brandy. There was a
lot of energy around him, and he actually had a
rap group. When I signed him, he was in a group.
I mean, you know, Kobe, God blessed. Anyway, he went solo,
so yeah, yeah, he was in the group. Though he

(11:04):
was in the group, and he put in the work.
He came to my house. He lived at my house
for six weeks. I lived in New Jersey. A very
dear friend of mine, Charles Oakley, he came out, used
to come out to Jersey and hang out with him.
Worked out with him in a few times, and Kobe
was the you know, we in the morning get up.
I got him to go to this local gym. He

(11:25):
would shoot a thousand shots. Then he would he had
these tapes. It was Michael Jordan going left, Michael Jordan
going right. So it was just the tapes were split
of Jordan moving left, Jordan moving right, Jordan guarding people
going left, Jordan guarding people going right. And he'd watch
it for hours and then we would go to the

(11:46):
studio and record. That was his routine every single day.
I learned a lot of discipline. The discipline, Uh, from
a young man. I thought I was, you know, I
thought I was pretty disciplined and doing my thing, and
I seen another level of it with him, very very
special talent.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I could.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
I could talk about him for hours because during that
period of time when I got to know him, he
wasn't really into having a lot of friends. A lot
of people never got a chance to get deep in
getting a chance to get close to him because he
was he was closed off like that. And for years, man,
I we would we would, we'd speak all the time.

(12:26):
I mean we became very very close friends. So obviously
it was unfortunate. I took him to Rucker Park. He
played in Ruccer Park, man, and Uh, he wanted to
play because all these guys go out to all these
NBA guys go to Rutger Park. It's like, you know,
you got to play in the record. It's like a
ride of passage. Yeah, And we go out there and

(12:47):
I gave him to my man. I didn't have a
team IRV God that grew up in my neighborhood. I
let him play for Earth's Murder Inc. Team at the time.
And he goes out there and all the guys are
there and he starts putting on the show, a show.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
He loved it.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
It starts to drizzle. I'm like, we got to close
this game down. I mean, I'm not letting him play,
but he's not gonna let the game. He's not gonna
want to be the one to call it. So he
starts telling the basketball team how to play on wet surfaces. Wow,
I'm like, we're not doing any of this because I
already know this man gets hurt. If it's on me,

(13:24):
it's on my watch. So we shut it down. But uh, yeah,
he put out I forgot. But he's got thirty points
in you know, twelve minutes or some crazy number and
shit like that. So could you tell because you said
he's so disciplined, he's watching Jordan go left, watching Jordan
go right, Jordan's Garden, left Jordan's Garden right, and he's
back in the studio recording. Did you did you know then,

(13:47):
with the level of discipline that an eineteen year old
kid had, that he was gonna be what he became.
Oakley told me. Charles told me Charles. Charles told me
immediately the similarities between him and Jordan as a with
work ethic. He knew it immediately. Like he came in
talking that I didn't know what the fuck he was
talking about. I'm like whatever he said that. But the

(14:10):
other thing he did was he asked me and I
had this guy who worked for me at the time.
He's actually now his name is Anton Marshawn. He's actually
recruits for the Cleveland Cavaliers. He worked for me in
the music business at the time. Kobe was gonna guard
out on Iverson that yet he was very much respectful
of Iverson's speed and all that, and he said, go

(14:31):
get He wanted to get young guards from New York
that could you know, do they things over and cross
over a lot. We got him, went to this indoor
Jim he lined ten of them up. They came in
from the three point line. He stood at the file
line and they would come in like an assembly line,
and he would guard them, try to strip them, take
them to the hole, and then run back to the

(14:52):
line before the next guy came.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
He ran that.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
He never got on offense. He ran at like a
like an assembly line. Wow, he was just garden. He
was garden, six foot fast as shit. They get past them,
steal from them, block it, you know, rub the shit
against the backboard, come back guard The next time. He
was doing this over I couldn't believe that he was
doing this. No offense, no nothing. And it was like

(15:16):
this level of discipline and then a tough guy, tough
like it's a strong discipline, tough principal, driven man. We
are one night to this bar, and back then street
guys would buy all of the crystal.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah right, but let me tell you something.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
They're buying a crystal because what they want is assuming,
not because they are drinking all of it. If somebody
comes in they want to and you ordered crystal, you
gotta check in good, you gotta check in.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So I ordered a crystal.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
He's not even drinking. Kobe's not drinking at all. Back then,
he was not drinking alcohol at that time. Guy says,
I have to check in this guy down at the
bar or whatever. I'm like, I don't feel like doing it.
He's like, man, fuck this good thing. So I got
the Chrystal. No, I didn't get the Christal. I didn't
want to do it. I'm like, I'm not fuck this.

(16:14):
I'm not doing this. We go out to a dinah
like two three in the morning, and the same guy
street guy won't say his name, is sitting there and
Cole is making jokes about his outfit and he's being
a little loud.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I'm like, yeah, you gotta chill with that bro. Yeah,
he's not chilling with that bro. He's loud.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
The guy send somebody over, yo, blah blah blah, want
to talk to you. I go outside. I'm like, yo,
the young kid, he got the gun out. He's like, yo,
he got the gun out.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
I'm like, yo, he's a young man. I'm trying to
tell him that's how nobody. He didn't even know who
he was, all right. So even though Kobe Bryant is
I'm like, he's my young man thing. He's cool whatever.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Kobe comes outside, seize the gun. I'm like, go go
back in he was I'm not going nowhere. He did
this on twenty third and ninth Avenue. He did that
what little boy at eighteen, The whole thing it died.
But he said he ain't going nowhere. I'm like, yo,
he's this thing. He don't know who you are.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
I was already. It was already.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
The guy felt embarrassed. It wasn't like, it wasn't crazy.
The guy felt embarrassed. He really wanted an apology for
the embarrassment. That was because it was loud, right, and
I was giving him that. It's cool, man, it's fine.
He didn't mean no distract. He didn't even know who
you are. Man, he's not even from here. Right when
he hit the thing out when he said, I ain't
going nowhere.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Two week?

Speaker 3 (17:50):
What kind of person is this? I'm giving you the
out right. This is not your problem. I'll deal with
this problem. Right.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
He don't want that. This is our problem? Wow? Man,
I never told that story. Man, So what I mean?

Speaker 3 (18:07):
So you knowing that the kid is so disparate, know
that he's standing as they say, now, business, what did
he teach you?

Speaker 1 (18:18):
You can run through walls?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Man?

Speaker 1 (18:20):
You believe it.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
You could do anything. There's nothing. You can't do that
if you believe in it. That's what he taught me.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
He never did he speak about the basketball aspect.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
I understand he was there to do music, but he
did he talk to you about what he wanted to
become in the hell? Yeah, man, he had no could
say he manifested all of it. But he really did
the work. He knew that if you did all the
work that ultimately it was gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
He didn't even think about it.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
He all his whole thing was that everybody who was
a talent always tapped out and doing the work.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
I asked him one time we're at a we were
at a restaurant and we're sitting there talking.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I just and I always wanted to ask this question, dude,
what do you think about athletes that come from out
to ask you this man, athletes that come from two
parent households versus athletes that come from single parent households.
So you got these guys who come from single parent households,
they're in a football field.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
And their anger and the shit that they I'm doing
this for my mother. I ain't got no father.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Whatever the circumstances are, they bring in all that energy
on the basketball court, on the football field, and they
play with that level of rage. Yeah, And he goes,
I said, how do you feel about them?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Versus? He goes, you know, those.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Guys are intimidating and they play with that rage and
it works until they run into the real thing. Michael
Jordan me, Magic Johnson. They run into that and we
got the same level of work, ethic and rage, but
we have we come from. I'm a solid foundation, and

(20:01):
that solid foundation that's the that's the thing that those
guys can't beat.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
He said that to me.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
I was like, all right, Wow, you also knew Lebron
at a very young age. I mean Lebron was what
like fifteen sixteen when you made I know, I met
Lebron when he was seventeen. I pitched Lebron the whole
story about Lebron and the ten million dollar check that
he turned out.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I was there. It was my idea to give him
the check. I was in the room to give him
the check.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
A kid with a single mom. I couldn't believe living
in an apartment. Yeah, and you got a ten million
dollar checks and poor Fireman. So I tell Paul Fireman,
I'm like, we leave we're in New York for meetings.
We're flying up to Massachusetts to meet Lebron. He's flying
the plane from Akron. It's like a six o'clock five

(20:51):
thirty meeting. He had to finish school compute.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Boom.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
I'm like, Paul, he goes Adidas is going to do
the deal Nike. He's gonna do deal. He wants to
go to Nike. His agent is already preapproved a deal
with Nike. I'm like, let me tell you how you
deal with this in the record business. When you want
to sign somebody, you give him the money right there
in the front, like you know what, whatever you think
the number is, We'll give you this signing.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Bonus right now tonight.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Even take the other meetings, because I figure, if you're
meeting me, you're really considering it. I'm gonna give you
a signing bonus to make on top of what you
think you should get, so that there's no reason for
you to take the other meetings. Ten million dollars is
a number. He calls his wife. This is when I
seen some early some ball and shit. He calls his wife.

(21:35):
When we land on the FBO, there's a ten million
dollar personal check waiting at the thing because we're going
to write to the office. I'm leaving the pitch to
Lebron and Maverick and his agent. At the time, I
can't remember this guy's name, Gordon. I'm sorry, Aaron Gordon,
doing the pitch, doing the whole thing. And we get
to the thing, to the final stage, and Paul's gonna

(21:58):
present him the check. Paul presents him the check. I
remember staring at his face.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
This is huge.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
We're gonna sign Lebron Jays. We leave the room, we
come back. When he beaves the check and says he's
gonna take the other meetings, I clapped. I knew the
world changed. A young black man eighteen years old walked

(22:27):
away from ten million dollars going back to the projects.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
I clapped. I clapped, and it was my idea that
didn't work.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
It meant so much, not that the reebok was wrong
or the check was wrong, but the freedom and confidence
and belief in yourself to do that. This is a
new generation of individuals, this is a new generation of
thought that's coming from African Americans.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's all I thought about, and I was so proud
of us at that moment.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Wow, and you've pretty much been in his life because
you did the Beats by Drake commercial with him. Bron Man,
Lebron and I have like this man me Lebron, Maverick Rich.
I can tell you everything. I mean, Ramos, these are
my brothers, right, these are my brothers. Maverick worked at me,

(23:20):
you know, since he was six months before that, Maverick
was with me, you know, staying at my crib, working
out of my office, you know, me mentoring him, giving him,
you know, the tips, showing him the business whatever. Like
those are my brothers.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's like that.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
I've been in every iteration of that camp, from the
before the decision of this, every single thing. Love those guys,
love Lebron and and how you feel about him is
you know, I'll just tell you right now, forget the
arguing of the who's the best basketball player of all time?
There's not even a question he's the best athlete of
any sport of all time. But forget where he's the

(24:00):
best basketball player. That he's the best professional athlete in
any sport I've ever heard of, seeing of nobody's even close.
You did Alan Averson's first commercial. It wasn't his first commercial.
It was the only when he showed up to well, Chunk,

(24:22):
I love you Chunk, the bad did say practice, not
a game, but practice.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
So the likelihood you're getting to show for a commercial
was gonna be tough. He showed up to the commercial.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
And it was a very special thing that will you
know the commercial with him and Jadakiss man it played
on radio like a song, it became a song. It
was Alan Ivison bouncing a ball, creating a beat that
Jadakiss rapped to. And when I did that, Hype Williams,

(24:53):
who's a great music director. At the time, he shot
a lot of music videos. He dominated shooting music videos,
shot that no one thought he could shoot commercials at
the time. Why I haven't still have no idea why
that was even a thought. And we shot that commercial
and it was you know, part of the package of
talk about rebranding we had to rebox was skips losing

(25:17):
me very good. You know what skips and people don't
I don't wear those. There was a skips you don't
want to wear those, right, you skip build and find something,
you skip something to find something else. Those are rebox
We had to rebrand that. Part of it was this
art changing the letters to RBK, jay Z obviously and

(25:40):
fifty cent and all of that stuff, and then it
was Ai and Jadakiss, So we we did work around
Ai and Jada Kiss. We did another spot with Stevie
Francis and Scarface at the time, Uh, that wasn't as successful,
but we were doing this thing to fuse music and
sport together because my whole thing was like every rapper
wanted to be a basketball playing basketball player wanted to

(26:01):
be a rapper, and that's less true than it was
back then today. But because of that, I wanted to
create marketing and advertising around that fusion, and that was
the way we rebranded Rebound. How were you able to
convince jay Z to create a sneaker would rebok? It

(26:22):
wasn't really hard to convince him. Nike at the time
didn't believe in music as performed that.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Nike was very.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Disciplined to its manifesto about athletes and performance. They wouldn't
mess around with anybody else. So an artist, the most
you can get from Nike with some free sneakers. They
wouldn't do business with. There was no commercial opportunity and
jay Z knew like the great ones do that he
was moving the culture. Okay, So when he told everybody

(26:53):
we were in button up shirts, we're going to change clothes, that.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Was happening.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
If he did a pair of sneak because with Reebok,
forget Rebox, whatever they were, if he puts his name
next to it, they're gonna buy his sneakers.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Right, And he didn't have any self doubt that forget Nike,
I could do this with them.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
And by the way, while he was wearing his sneakers
and selling his sneakers, sometimes he'd wear Nike too, and
he's like, people ain't gonna believe me, for all I
did was wear my sneakers.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
I got to show them that I choose to wear
my sneakers like I choose to wear those. It's an option.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
But like this whole idea like only we're your sneakers.
He knew that would that looks fake because that wouldn't
be real. Right, what's real is I do like these?
I also do like those, but creating an option, right,
which that put Reebok into conversation, So it didn't really
take much convention. The convention was, you know, getting a

(27:56):
deal done, not if Reebok was right after he was
a partner. Jay Z's not the ambassador of anything except himself.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
He was a partner. He was a fifty to fifty partner.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
How do you That's the thing because a lot of
times these brands would throw a large summer money and
an athlete or an entertainer.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Will take that.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
It's like, okay, fine, but how do you convince them like,
take less of this and become partnership or equity stake.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Jay Z understood that from the beginning because he was
an independent artist.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
So when jay Z was selling music at the back
of a trunk, the back of a trunk, which Master
p did, which Birdman and Cash Money did, Luke Skywalker did.
There's some great entrepreneurs who sold like literally hand to
hand combat with distributing music. What they knew was whether
they got there because they tried to get a record

(28:59):
deal and then they got turned down to then they
had to just do that. They learned the margin was there.
They actually that was the first time you got a
chance to look under the hood and realize, wait a minute,
this thing that cost me, you know, a dollar to
make that I could sell for sixteen dollars.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
All that money right there, that's mine. If I got
a record deal, I'd be getting a.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Small fraction of that. Once they learned. Once you learned that,
and once you see that, you can't unsee that. So
betting on yourself becomes the right thing to do, because
that's where the margin is. When I started United Masters,
the whole point of building this company, a music company,

(29:42):
was that I felt like artists should be independent. They
should keep a line's share of the money. They shouldn't
give away their name and likeness because they got money
when they was eighteen years old or their first record deal.
In order for that deal to be a good idea,
the record and he has to have a belief, more

(30:02):
belief in you than you have in yourself. Right, because
they're basically saying, I'm giving you a half a million
dollars and you're gonna give me your name and likeness
for the next ten years or whatever the term is.
You didn't even get a chance to find out what
it's worth on your own right being independent. There was
a period of time where it was hard to be

(30:24):
independent when those guys did it. Not everybody was built
for that. But today, while music is being distributed between
Apple and Spotify, and you have a platform like United
Masses that you can go through and put your music
out and get it distributed everywhere. Why would you not
do that versus going to get a record deal, getting
some money, but sacrificing giving away.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
All the yip side for a short term check. It
just don't make no sense.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
But Steve, is it a case of I've always wanted
a record deal, I've always wanted to work with a
record company. Yeah, it is that by the two change
had the same argument for years ago. He goes, you
don't understand. I'm like, that's the dream. Well, the fact
of the matter is part of the dream is to
get paid. That is not how you get paid. You're

(31:10):
not gonna get paid that way. Secondly, this is not
twenty years ago. You had to take CDs and get
them into all these points of distribution and print up
a bunch of CDs. So your course outlay was so hard,
was so expensive because you had to make the song
that make ten twenty thousand of these things. You were

(31:32):
out a lot of money before you found out if
it worked. You can find out if it worked for
fifty dollars right now, you know, for nothing, essentially nothing.
Of course, the recording has gone down. You can sign
them to a platform like IURS for sixty dollars, put
all the music out you want, and you find out
if you ever hit. At least do that to find

(31:54):
out if you want to make that decision, and then
you have leverage and you make that decision later. Man,
maybe I won't get a record deal, but you already
got a hit. So now they can't sit and tell you, well,
we're betting on you.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
No no, no, no, no no. You know I got
to hit right already, bet on me, already, bet on me?
So come correct.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
You see you mentioned that Jay Z when he partnered
with Rebok, and we see uh, Travis Scott not with Nike.
I think m had something with Nike. You see Jack
Harlowe's with New Balance. Uh fifty G Unit had something
with rebob.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Now you see the culture as you spoke about, and
you believe the influence that it had with brands. You
see a lot more of that. You I started that,
That's what I'm saying. You got no no, no, no started.
Then everybody knows that that's you, that's me.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's called corporate America.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I'm gonna introduce you to this thing called hip hop okay,
and the music and the culture and everything that it
represents can help you. That's what I did, And everywhere
I go around the world, anyone who knows me knows
I did that. I feel great about that, right or not.
I still do believe that we should be way more

(33:14):
protective of who we give that to. Right, because you
don't want to give it to people. Again, that's not
your partner who's going to invest in it to further
it versus see what they could take from it, right,
just for short term game. You don't want to give
it away for that, I don't think it's worth it.
How do you determine whether or not to take a

(33:35):
salary a large salary or take a smaller salary with
equity and something? How do you how do you determine that?
How does Steve Stout determine that? So I'm in the
music business. Yes, I went through something. Yeah, okay, if
you don't mind me telling you the story, I would
love to hear it. I'm working at the record company.

(33:56):
I'm at Inniscope. I went from Sony, I went to
in the scope is two and a half million dollars
a year. I'm twenty seven years old. I'm doing well
by anybody's standards. Yeah, better than well, yeah right, making
money more money than football players back then, and so
ninety seven, Yeah, okay, for sure, this opportunity comes along

(34:18):
where I see, you know, men in black happens the
agency that put.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
The glasses in product placement for Will Smith?

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Ooh, sorry, the agency that did that. I wanted to
work with them because I've never met an agency before.
I'm like, damn you, Will Smith wore these glasses. The
glasses went crazy, and everybody thinks that was an accident.
I could do that shit every single day. I know
exactly who the people are that should be touching these
products in order to create, you know, an opportunity to

(34:49):
sell more of that product. Spent time at that agency.
The guy made me an offer. I'll give you twenty
five percent of the agency and I hundred and fifty
thousand dollars salary if you come here. So I'm gonna
leave the record business two and a half million dollars,

(35:11):
all of the perk that come along and come with it.
Who you are, the rooms you walk in, everything that
comes with that. To go work in an agency where
I don't know anybody, I really don't even know the business.
I just know that one aspect of the business. And
I'm like, if I don't make that bet on myself
now when I'm twenty eight years old, twenty nine years old,
when would I ever do it when I have a family,

(35:31):
when I have kids, I'll never make that bet.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
I made that bet.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
We sold that agency within two years for one hundred
and ninety million dollars. I was rich as fuck at
the thirty Yeah, I was thirty one years old. Wow,
doing it at an extremely high level. I'll tell everybody
that when I built this company, United Masses, the employees

(35:57):
get equity in the company. I want people to get equity.
I want people to make more money. But you can't
teach people sacrifice. That's unfortunate. Yeah, you just can't teach it.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Got to be willing to do so. You gotta be
willing to do that. I will offer that.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
But if you're gonna sit there and think short term,
then you're really betting against yourself. You gotta be willing
to bet on yourself. You can't think that you're getting
away with something because somebody overpaid you. You got to
believe that you are worth more than that. Salary and
that you can prove that, and if you are worth
more than that salary, why wouldn't you have equity whether

(36:40):
I mean, I just think that it's over time, the
whole working class idea how you work has shifted from
the indented servant, the slave, the employee to ownership. You
gotta have ownership. I mean, this is your show and
I'm proud to do this with you because everybody publicly

(37:01):
seen what you did that you knew your worth. You
created value and you knew your worth and you got
what you deserved because you got what you earned. And
if you don't have an opportunity to have ownership, then
no matter how good you are, you never feel the impact.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Of your value.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Right, So like, you gotta do that, and you're gonna
take a short term l to do that, So what
right could you?

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I don't want to be one of these people.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I never wanted to be one of these people who said, man,
I came up with this idea, I invented this, I
did all this shit, but you never got a chance
to benefit from it because you took the short term money.
That's not cool and you see it all the time,
but a lot of your peers. I'm sure you want
to tell them all the time. Man, I don't know

(37:50):
what you could do to help them. But a lot
of these guys up they are trapped by that mentality
of short term. They feel like they're stealing or something
like that, like every time they get a check, they're
getting away with something.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
No, you'll give it.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Away too much, right, Well, it come down to how
do you see yourself? Do you see yourself as talent
or do you see yourself as a partner? Do you
see yourself as an owner? For so long we've been
we've been talent taught to believe that. Yeah, because you
come into football, they cut your check. You're not part
of it. You don't own part of the team. You
come into basketball. But in this media space, what we've

(38:28):
been able to do digitally okay, no.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Hell no.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
But you know what even outside of the digital And
I ask you something, man, I watch your ex partner now,
your partner, your ex host Skip. I don't even understand
why all these other black athletes even go on the show. Now,
I don't even understand what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
And to me, it's so.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Clear that he needs block talent athletes, rappers, he's doing
everything to prop himself up, and I know he's getting
paid over there, and everybody else is getting pennies on
the dollar.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
And I'm like, why would you do that? Why would
you go over there and do that?

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Here? Clearly isn't the guy he needs you. Why don't
everybody need a show? And let's watch him do it
for a minute. That show would be dead immediately they
get all these guys over there, they're giving pennies on
the dollar and he and they prop them up. I'm like,
we gotta.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Stop doing that, man, we can't do that no more.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
It's not it's not worth it, and there's nothing that
comes out of it long term except what they benefit from.
Well like where I am right now, get in on
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(39:52):
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The crown is yours never fell.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
A place in the crowd, so I stayed from the
crowd they left to me there, Well, look at their
faces right now.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
It gave me the blue print. I've been trasing it that.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
This is literally the greatest albums that came out in
nineteen eighty eight, like EPM D followed the Leader and
by any means necessary, couldn't play Run DMC.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Saw pop Out, Yeah, Easy Round, Easy Yetta Boys.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, this all came out, Ultramagnetics, the great events of
Slick Wrick, Big Daddy Kane, this all came out. This
is literally one year where a lot of these artists
won independent labels, so they had creative freedom and made
some of the best music that defined an era.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Public Enemy. It takes, It takes a nation of millions.
Nwa was this?

Speaker 3 (40:51):
I even said to Dre Doctor Dram, like you made
straight out of Compton and you made the easy, Easy
does It album the same year, Man, you made two
crazy beautiful classics.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well yeah, yeah, Salt and Pepper.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
And that's that's where I grew up in. I grew
up in Queens. This is like in my neighborhood, man,
this is where I grew up. So I just look
at this.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
This is reminds me of being.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Fifteen years old, just watching this, Like they literally lived
here while they were stars.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
So like you go to the mall and you would
see that and iloj like in the mall, Wow at
block parties, Ill kooja seene that do block parties in Queens.
Then what happened? Why can't stars now still do that?
You can't even go back to the same neighborhood. You
go up and you should be a representation. They said, Man,
this guy lived here in this very neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
And he got out.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
We can look what happened and I've seen man, Yeah
he went back in his own neighborhood, you know, going
back to you. There's a bit of jealousy people. I
don't know, man, Back then, there was no choice. I mean,
the artists were getting big and they were getting famous,
but the art form hadn't gotten to the point where
they got really right right right, So people seen him
it was like, oh shit, that's whatever. But when the

(42:05):
money started to get in play, everything changed. Yeah, everything changed.
We're headed over to your burd We're headed over to
Queens where it all started for you is Queens.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
The most overlooked hip hop borough who.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Were leaving Brooklyn, which gets a lot more hype because
of jay Z and Piggy and Queen's definitely gets overlooked.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah you got LLL, you got run DMC, he'p going,
you got fifty, you got.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Nikki, Yeah, you got trip Coal Quests, Yeah, you got NNS,
you got mob Deep. They always forget about Queen Joe Rule, Yeah,
Russell Simmons, Yeah, IRV Gotti myself.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
You know, it gets overlooked for some strange reasons. I
don't know why.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Where I grew up at within like a ten mile
rate where all these people are from. I used to
go to the mall and see LOJ battling like in
a mall, or go to a block party and see him,
you know, because those were the venues where guys would
get off. The art form are so small, it's like
the equivalent of guys playing with love helmets. This is
the beginning, So everybody's doing all kinds of They're just

(43:19):
trying to move from point here to point there. Plus
and he came to America and landed in Queens. That's
so funny. I can't even believe he did that on
Queens Boulevard. Zimunda can't right from Zoomunda. So why do
you think Queens doesn't get the credit or has the popularity,
Say like a Brooklyn when it comes to hip.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Hop, because of the houses, backyards, grass.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
You know, soon Queens is associated with middle class, right,
you know where Brooklyn and the Bronx, it's more like as.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
That New York by the New York buy.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Queens gets treated like you know and meanwhile it's not true,
but that's just the that's probably been the energy associated
with it.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
But everybody knows Queens get the money. So I can
tell you that.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
I mean k R S and Boogie Down productions, Molly
Mal the Bridge, the Bridge, I mean, because you all
the time. I want Molly Mal produced in Queensbridge. Yeah, okay,
Molly Mal is from Queensbridge.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah. Obviously Karris One is from the Bronx.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
But that beef between Queens and the Bronx, the Bronx
won that beef, they won't that.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I mean, KRS one was k I just said it, man,
I mean I know, but I just said, you don't
have to bring it up.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Beat out down, Oh ship, that's funny. As far as
you can go back, who were the first rappers to
have beef? Well, The All and Komo D because that
was the first. That's the first one I could. I

(45:09):
could think Lo kind of embraced the whole beef thing.
I'm trying to think who before l who had beef
that was blatant? There was like.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Kumo D was actually a battle raper.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
It was a there was a mixtape early that was
not if you really know hip hop, that was like
Kumo D and Busy B and that was like a
very very famous tape that if you heard that tape,
you heard them battle, and that was like for me,
I must have been fourteen, that was like, oh shit,
that was the battle on them c's. So when lokoj

(45:45):
and Kumo D battle, it was like, oh shit, oh
you ready for that smoke. This guy, Kumo D was
a made man already from the underground scene. He he
got famous with Wild Wild West and yeah, yes, but
he was already like a made man before that. We're
getting busy. When they battled, I couldn't believe llll came

(46:10):
out on top because Kum was like that dude, and
then llll took him down and then l llll took
down I Love made a song called to the Break
of Dawn and took out.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
He took out iced Tea and.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
And hammer. He did all three and one was on.
He gave each of them a verse that was like
he was really into that. He's always into that right,
by the way, that's one of his issues. He only
that's the only mode he knows. Like when he rapped
a lot, it was like, I'm going girls mode.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Oh, I'm going.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
This move, I'm dim we wrapped? Are we going after it?
We did a song with a this kid idolized him.
I'm figuring cannabis and yeah, I can't and and Al
just shit her on the kid for no reason. Man,
he's Elle's crazy. They cannot bull when he was when
Elle was rapping like all the way he still raps.

(47:10):
But when El was in that a younger guy rapping
like that. We put Foxy Brown on the record. He
puts on I shot your remix, man, and then he
puts it on the record. Female rappers too. I don't
give a fuck boo. This girl is seventeen, man, this
girl is seventeen.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
On the record. Why are you saying you get take
out female rappers too. I don't give a fuck. He's
like a guy. Man.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
It was like, it's either war are we talking about girls?
But it's in between? Shit is not my dude, Why
are you the best guy in interviewing music people right now?
That shit is run with that man, Yo, run there
is nobody. There is noboddy, nobody. I'm a sports guy,
but I wanted to branch out. I wanted to show

(47:56):
my versatility. But I was just more than a sports guy.
The fucking baby in the Cord interview, even the Dame
and Dash interview as fucked up as that.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
What He's a gigantic almost almost not. He blew it.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
He had jay Z, he had the most important artists
of his whole generation. So what happened with that relationship?
How did that relationship that was so good sour so fast?
Dame's antics were just it became like people over time

(48:29):
you mature. It's like you didn't have friends at sixteen,
but by the time you turn nineteen, they were still
doing the same shit he was sixteen. In your life,
I can't. I gotta, yeah, we gotta. You know, you
start spending less and less time with them because of it.
It's like one of those.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Things where Dame.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Dame wouldn't change the way he spoke to people, the
way he treated people. His he was angry about what
right you getting paper? He was angry because he had
a strong perspective about his business philosophy and if any

(49:11):
time a partner of theirs tried to like go around
him or meanwhile, people weren't going around him. The people
around him wanted to meet with other people. The people
wanted more, becoming less beholden to him, but he was
unaware of it. Then he would like, you know, while
he was building businesses, which partly he was, he would

(49:36):
go off all around the world with cameras and girls
and all kinds of crazy shit and then come back
flipping on everybody.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Is if you know they were wrong? Yeah, or like,
why'd you guys do all this shit without me?

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Like, Bro, you didn't build a business that was so
operationally tight you could just go away and come back
and shit and be the same and all that shit.
It wasn't even like that. Jay grew up, you know,
Jay wanted more. I think Jay seen Dame's ceiling. I mean,
I think that's really what it was. I mean, uh,

(50:09):
Jay seen Dame ceiling. You can't follow the man from
wanting to get better. Yeah, he wanted to. He wanted more,
and everybody wanted more. Dame just had a very particular
way approaching it.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
He wasn't. He's far from stupid, right, very very very smart,
very talented.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Hego through the roof, through the roof, so there was
no working with him, right that no one wanted to
work with him.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
There was no work.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
As much talented, as talent as he has, nobody want
to want to work with. Jimmy Ivean had this line,
when the ship gets bigger than the cat, you gotta
get rid of the cat.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Right.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
How did the beef start between fifteen jar Up? I said,
good question.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Why I know you know the answer. I think think
fifty knew that Jah was not who he was portraying
as an image Jah, you know, Jehovah witness, Jeovah witness
for the rap. I'm not saying they're not supposed to rap,

(51:16):
but it was like Joe was coming up with his
gangster image and it was like, that's a stretch for you, right,
And I think fifty that was one thing.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
And then they had some like very neighborhood beef. And
I remember when we signed fifty, there was something going on.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
I think he snatched John's chain or somebody snatched somebody's
it was one of these things. And they had a
fight in Atlanta, fifty for them in Atlanta, and it
was just like I didn't even understand it. I'm like,
why do you keep having problems with this guy? It
was like always it was like he was looking for
problems with him. To be honest with you, but I
think it was driven by this idea that this image

(51:56):
he was portraying that he didn't think was was authentic
or whatever, and then he had a problem with him
and it led to, you know, big issues. And then
Jean and his guys ran up on fifty in a
studio one day, and you know, they touched them up.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
So they never be cool. Nah, They're never gonna be cool.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
And now it's kind of I'm happy that it's all
kind of over with because it's what I don't like
at this point is older statesmen like them still beefing
stuff because it makes the art form look bad. Right,
you know, these guys are made men now, you know,
like I love what Fat Joe's persona is today and
I love obviously with Jay represents and with NAS represents,

(52:42):
and you know, the art form, the leaders of the
art form, you know, doing well, you know, being positive,
representing sort of as not role models, but representing the
movement in the culture of hip hop. Well for guys
still to be beefing and still associating that and dragging
that back in and not on the older statesman level.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
The younger guy should be doing that. That's cool. But
like the older guy man, you you in your forties, right,
I mean, why are you What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (53:09):
When you got kids at home, you got a wife,
you got we already know this is not what it is,
So why are you doing that?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
I don't like that, But look, it's also none of
my business.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
But I do always feel like, like hip hop, the
business of hip hop culture is something that I carry
with me, so I do have an opinion on it.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Where some people will say, Stephen, it's not your business.
Keep doing your thing.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Do you remember when Fitty crash the stage will hold
Dady and t I Yeah, fifty is a wild boy,
he's a man.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
He don't mind beefing with anybody. He doesn't mind beefing
with anybody. He likes that thing. He he he loves it.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
In fact, I think he wants the attention from it.
He understand what that brings. The last thing to do
is to ignore him. Okay, if you ignore him, then
it's over with, because he really is doing it for
the attention, the attention of it.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
And by the way, that's fine.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
It's a great business tactic, you know, because it does
bring a lot of attention. I just think there's a
but like for him now. I mean, this guy is
such a successful producer. I don't think he needs to
do any of that. He's a businessman. I don't think
he needs to he needs to do that. And he's talented. Man,
the people like like Power and those shows, the BMF shows.
I'm gonna tell you something right now, and this is

(54:34):
what you hear it first. If that guy, well his
real talent is comedy.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
When he takes what he does in production and apply
that to comedy, is over with. He's not talented. Wow,
that's his thing.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Comedy All times.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
I was bro member saying though five O FO these
days whinning only then it I know fail so many times.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
So this is my high school man. There's a story
here that I've never said on camera. I've told my
daughter the story. I'm gonna tell it to you because
it changed my life and I want people to understand it.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
When I first came, I was trying for the football
team till I was in junior. We're doing two days
and this ship is killing me. Like it's killing me, okay,
like I'm getting beat the fuck down. But this is
a moment that changed my life. Come off that field,
I got my T shirt on. It's probably be day four.

(55:40):
I can't do this ship no more.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
I walk out.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I walk right up this movie walking right now. I'm
gonna quit. I can't do this no more. I didn't
think it meant anything to me. I want to play football.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
I can't do it. Asking me to do this shit
isn't too much. That's what I thought. So I came out.
I walked this way, and I stand up here at
this bus stop.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
While I'm there, one of the coaches season coach comes by,
looks at me and says, aren't you in the football.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Team, man, but you're doing I looked at him, like, nah, man,
I no, I didn't say quick you said, I said
I'm not on the football team. I don't even talking.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Man.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Meanwhile, my name is on the back of the jersey,
so he walks up. He knew I was He knew
I was lying. What I did was I left, and
I had to accept the fact that I quit.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Right. I came back that year as a senior. I
did everything I was supposed to do and made the
team and the last half of the season I started
at running back. The fact that I went back to
finish that job that I started and they never let

(57:10):
this football team, the Holy Cross, that's like the premier
football within in our in this thing. And to come
back as a senior and do that was the first
time I did something I was successful. Well, I was like, man,
I quit, but I couldn't live with that in my
heart and I had to come back and do that.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
And that shit changed my life.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Man.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I told my daughter that story.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Because everything that I did, from getting into the advertising
business getting into the music business.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
There was no clear path. There was no path for
none of it. It was very easy to just say yo, quit,
but you didn't.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I didn't quit. I didn't quit. And the one time
I did quit, I went back and fixed it. So
I could erase it, and it became the greatest lesson
on my Had.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
You not gone back, would you be the stage stoles
this that swear to God? No way, No. If I
got away with quitting because do you quit? Was it's
easy to do it once? You quit once? It's easy
to do Is that one of your greatest lessons?

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Yeah, that is the greatest lesson. I've never seen anyone
fail who'd even quit? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Were you cool with jay Z and
nads when they had their beef? Yeah? So how did
how did you stay swhistle in the state? Neutral? Part
of it was easy because I knew how much respect
they had for one another.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
I don't know if you've ever been in a situation
where two people had respect for one another, they just
never shared it with each other, correct, And you're sitting
in between them thinking if they only knew what each
other felt, they would this would go away.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
That's what I felt.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
The part of it that was difficult was the outside
pressure of people thinking, how could you be friends with
both of them at the same time. You must be
passing information or something like that. There was no information
the past. They had known each other before they knew
each other before me. Actually they knew each other before me,
and the issues that they had had nothing to do

(59:24):
with me. It was very unfortunate to my earlier point
about being an elder statesman. When they had a beef,
no guns, nobody got shot. Lyrical songs and you know what,
they made up as men in front of everybody. That's

(59:50):
what it's supposed to be. They had a conflict, it
was handled through music and they made up publicly. No
one got hurt, no one got no guns, none of that.
That's that really did a lot as far as I'm concerned,
because letting people understand that disputes can be handled right

(01:00:11):
and yes, and that was dope.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
That was the dope part that came out of it.
Jay and I are cousins. Oh yeah, I mean I
don't talk about it because it's no reason to talk
about it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I went to my grandfather's funeral and his grandparent is
buried two lots down like they.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
It's like one of those type of things. Not knowing
is that how y'all guys developed the friendship even though
you didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Now we develop a relationship friendship honestly over Madden, and
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
You know, literally over Madden and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
There was something there was a business deal that we
were working on. He was working on that he wanted
that I decided I wanted to be a part of.
It was an artist that we were going to sign,
and it was a problem. And then when we went
to sudden the problem, I was like, man, I don't
even give a fuck about this little thing. I care
about really big things. And it was the way I

(01:01:08):
talked about my dreams and ambitions for big things. And
he's like, I like this guy. And then we became friend.
We became friends, became very close friends over time. How
did you come to manage or be in the presence
of nas after Illmatic? I was representing these producers called

(01:01:32):
the track Masses. The Track Masses were are very talented
producers who produced for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Biggie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
They produced. Their big hit at the time was Candy Rain.
Yeah yeah, they produced that joint Mary J Blive, what
have you. But they produced they produced under p Diddy, right,
and he had this this group called the Hitman. So

(01:02:05):
you never really got your own just out of it
because you were part of a conglomerate. Your name was
just like puff Daddy and the Hitman. So they wanted
to get out of the shadows of that and really
be the thing. And I, you know, was all for
that type of thing to help get them set them
up their own business. They didn't have to do all lot.

(01:02:25):
So Nas makes Illmatic, Elmatic comes out. Elmatic is successful
and the first thing the track Masses want to do.
They produced Biggie. They were making big rap records. They
wanted to produce Nas. Everybody wanted to produce Nas. The
problem was, no one can find Nas. You know, Nas
is an artist's artist. You couldn't find him through you know,

(01:02:50):
a series of events. I got to Nas, spent time
with him, he trusted me as his manager, and we
went to make on Make It Was Written album, and
It Was Written album was his biggest selling album of
all time. And the first song that the track masters
when I put them together they made was I Rule
the World.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Working with Nias is so one of the greatest accomplishments
I've ever had in my career. Really, Oh yeah. Nas
is one of the greatest writers of all time in
any topic writer. And when you get a chance to
work with that level of greatest, one of the best
whoever did it that this just doesn't happen. You know,
it's just a very It's a privilege to be able

(01:03:31):
to say that you did though, And at the age
of twenty six, twenty five, twenty six, when I was
doing it, working with him. When we first started, all
I knew was that I was working with this artist
who was hot and had to, you know, make a
big follow up album. When you look back at it
eighteen years later, you realize you got a chance to
work one of the greatest who ever did it? How

(01:03:53):
did you get him to adopt a more radio friendly
and more commercial friendly rap, considering that he had had
a success in Illmatic doing his way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Who's helping you with these questions?

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
I just answer, I'm just asking you, man, I'm just
you know, we put a lot of time and research
into this to make sure we get to know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
It was a risk.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
He bet on me, He trusted me, He believed in me.
I don't know how he knew to trust me, but
I spoke to him a lot about the fact that
we have to evolve. He understood that. He understood that
with that man, so that man making bigger music appealing

(01:04:37):
to more than because his first album, Eal Madic was
just considered one of the greatest rap albums of all time.
Hadn't sold that much, it wasn't popular, but those who
knew it the purest of the art form, understood it
and respected it and held it in high regard. But
this was also that plus make money, right, and we
had to make money, which meant we had to know,

(01:05:00):
expand and grow, which is what you know. Me coming
into the fold and helping him make it was written
was about but how do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
You get him to understand that?

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Because I read were in the beginning, he didn't really
care about money and success.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
He wanted to write. He was a writer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
He wanted he wanted to perfect this craft. But success
and payment money wasn't what it was about. What he
knew was the thing was working. There was a very
clear line between the artists that was making successful music
and looking successful as a result of it and the

(01:05:38):
artists who were underground, local right couldn't it couldn't get
out the local moniker, and he didn't want that to
be him. So whether it was about caring about money
or not, he definitely cared more about expanding his audience right, right,
So he wasn't it wasn't driven by.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Money like here we.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
But the other thing that was important Shannon was that
during that time, making money or being successful was a
part of what was successful. People wanted to see you
know vasace and ah ah, that was part of it.
So that was the lifestyle attached to it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
To the music.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
He didn't care about money, but he did care about
being successful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
So you know, my interpretation of that was let's make
bigger music, Let's make bigger songs, and let's find the
producers and the talent that can help us. And that
was obviously working with the track masters, going to get
you know, doctor Dre to produce on that album, which
nobody had done before, making music videos and visuals, getting

(01:06:52):
Lauren Hill to do sing I ruled the world.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Lauryn Hill. Nobody could get Lauren Hill. Lauryn Hill is
Lorn Hill.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
So the combination of all of that was what led
to you know, us doing something that important.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Now you see transition, He's nas the businessman, the big
private equity, all the stuff that we see I'm a
part of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Was that you talking to him like, Okay, take to
the next level to be what you want to be.
No I'm gonna be honest with you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
I introduced NAS to a very different of mine, Ben Horwitz,
who invested in me in the United Masters, And I
introduced NAS to him because Ben is a is a
tremendous fan of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Rap music.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
And you know, there was this whole idea that people
who can move the culture should be involved in technology.
You know. Because of that, Nas, you know, we're was
able to get going early in some very important venture investments,
Coinbase being one of them, which was big a ring
of the Amazon thing ring. And then you know that

(01:08:03):
got him going and he built a VC firm around
ne and he you know, his mass appeal and you know,
Nasa is a great businessman. He's a Nasa is an
all around talent man. He's a he's a very special
person that that people love.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
In the door.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two
is also posted and you can access it to whichever
podcast platform you just listen to part one on. Just
simply go back to Club Shay profile and I'll see
you there.