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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, so we are back on the way concept
presented by the Ring and today we are taking a
look at the heavyweight rematch for the undisputed Championship of
the World, Alexander Usik versus Daniel Dubois number two rematch.
After some we'll say controversy in the first fight, I
kind of agree, but we'll get into why after we
take a look at their first face off this fight week.
(00:23):
They sat down face to face and as we know,
both of them are not great talkers. But I want
to take a look and see what the energy is.
I want to see what Daniel Dubois brings differently to
this fight than he brought to the first fight. I
want to see if Usik still has that passion at
the top level to take down and reinvigorated Daniel Dubois.
But before we do any of that, I want to
let you guys know two things. Number One, I am
(00:45):
live this Saturday for this fight Usik Duboi, number two,
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for sponsoring this video. Now let's get back to the breakdown. So,
like I said, let's see if we can read into
the messaging between Daniel Dubois and all his under Usik
and between the two of them, what has changed from
the first fight to now it's the face off breakdown.
Let's go by the way. I don't know if you
(02:33):
guys saw this. I need to find the actual the
video Danieldubaus screaming in Usak's face when they dropped down
yesterday in London. This is actually the first face off
of fight week. I guess look at the confidence oozing
out of both guys. Usik very stoic. Daniel Dubois, well yeah,
he's Daniel dubah screaming the way that Daniel Dubois acts.
(03:05):
It's nonelike any other fighter I've ever seen. He is
just fully himself. I think sometimes he even has no
idea the moment that he's in and he's just I
don't know, I don't know how to describe it. He's
just himself and it's refreshing. He's not trying to be,
you know, a crazy good shit talker. He's not even
trying to be intimidating. He's just telling it like he
(03:25):
sees it. And even when he says like and the
new it, he's screaming it in Usk's face. I don't
think that's projection. I think that's the confidence he feels
after his run after the first fight or he got
knocked down and eventually stopped with the jab from Usik,
the run he's been on since the Miller fight, Hergovich, Joshua,
all these things back to back to back and all
(03:47):
of them being stoppages, has led him back to this moment.
I think that screaming in Usik's face is letting him know, like, listen,
this is a different, a different Daniel Dubois. So anyway,
let's get into the actual face to face.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Here we go again, do you think you could be
getting Alexander at a good time. He's at two hard,
twelve round fights with Tyson Fury, obviously thirty eight. Now
is this your time?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You could say that, but I don't want to even
even put it down to just been being an old man.
I've got to prove myself.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I love it, dude. Again, Daniel Dubois not even trying
to put down Usik when he's talking about him. He's
just telling it like he truly wants this to be
looked at. He's just blunt, that's all it is. He's like, listen,
I don't want anybody to just put this down to
him being an old man when I destroy him right Like,
he does not want any excuses. But he's not even
(04:40):
trying to be disrespectful. He's he's just blunt, and I
like it. I like the fact that he's like, yeah, no,
we're not gonna sit here and act like if I
beat him, it's because he went through to twelve round
fights with Tyson Fury and that he's thirty eight. Now,
if I win, or I guess he would say win,
I win, it's gonna be because Daniel Dubois got better,
not because Usik got war right, But just like the
(05:01):
way he said, He's like, we're not gonna act like
he's just an old man.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't want to even even put it down to
just been being an old man. I've got to prove
myself and you know, bring chaos in the ring. I
bring him the force I have that will be waiting
what's needed. Really, but I stand more to gain. He's
at the end of his career. I stand more to
game for a win, getting all the belts. That means,
you know, that's the start for me.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Really, He's like, I don't want to put it down
to Usik being at the end of his career, but
he is at the end of his career and I
am not. So he is an old man.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What are your memories of the first fight with Daniel Marina? Yeah,
did anything surprise you about Daniel?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
No? No boxing, boxing, don't have surprise.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, how do you approach this fight?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Usik is just I mean again, he's never been like
a crazy wordsmith. Obviously speak English and not his native tongue,
but it's simple but effective the way that he does
these like face offs and you know, if there are
mind games back and forth, he usually is getting the best.
He got the better of Tyson Fury in the mind
game stuff leading up to both of their fights, where
Tyson usually is the big talker, and you know he's
(06:18):
calling him rabbit and sausage and all this, and Musick
was just calm, cool, collected laughing at Tyson Fury and
got the better of him. Got Tyson all out of
sorts even an answer like that, He's like, what do
you remember about the first fight? He's like, I won,
That's what I remember, And no, do why didn't surprise me?
Because it's boxing, I'm ready for whatever, Like it's simple
but effective.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Differently this time confidence, I'm ready to seize victory.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Is it about fronting the kitchen sink?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's about getting victory? Seriously, you know, I've worked hard
for it and now we want to cause chass in
the ring and restore it rewarded with victory. So that's
my That's that's my mindset.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
That's twice. Now do why said he wants to cause
chaos in the ring. That seems like, you know, a
message they've had in camp, something that he definitely wants
to try to flesh out in real time. And what
I think he means, if I'm just trying to guess,
he's gonna try to take the fight to Alexander Usik,
and I think it's a good idea. You can't let
Usik get downhill and push you back. Tyson Fury let
him push him back twice. He didn't go well for him.
(07:18):
Anthony Joshua let Usi get on the front foot and
it didn't go well for him. Duboi when he was
in that first fight and things started to not go
his way, Usik got downhill and didn't go well for him.
You do need to keep pressure on Usik. He is
a technician, and eventually, if he's allowed to walk forward
and start the exchanges and keep his offensive volume up,
(07:38):
he's gonna find an open. When he finds it, he's
gonna go back to the well and it's gonna hurt you.
So when he's talking about causing chaos in the ring,
I have to think he means be first, be on
the front foot and make Usik adjust to him, versus
him adjusting to Usik. Or make Usik a little hesitant
to throw versus him being hesitant to throw and welcoming
a firefight is what is what Daniel Duboa is essentially
(07:58):
saying there, I don't I don't know about all that,
but I do like the idea of him being first,
him being on the front foot, and him pushing and
pressuring Usik versus just allowing Usik to stand in the
middle and then eventually pushing back. That can't happen for
Daniel dybe.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
What was it like sharing the ring with Usik? Everyone
calling Alexander a master? What was it like sharing a
ring with a master?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I look, look, I've come on since then, I've resurrected myself,
so I feel, you know, just ready for the ready
for a new beginning reade. I'm ready for a great fight,
looking forward to a great fight, and yeah, I'm excited
for it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Same. It's interesting the way that Duboy answered that question.
It's like in his mind he didn't even want to
give up the fact that Usik either got the better
of him in the first fight or that Usik was
a master of boxing. I kind of like that mindset
to be, like, I'm not even gonna entertain what happened
in the first fight. It's done and over. I've moved on. Then,
a part of me kind of looks that and goes, oh, man,
Daniel's having a real hard time except than he lost
(09:03):
that first fight, where he's like, oh, I've changed since then,
and you know, I'm better now. My confidence is higher now.
When you're starting to talk about like reasons Daniel lost
the first fight, you can say a big part of it,
people on the outside say, was, you know, he didn't
have the confidence to weather adversity, right, he didn't have
the confidence to stay on task when Usik started to
turn the tide after the low blow and everything else.
(09:25):
By the way, I'm still on the fence about that
being a low blow. I genuinely don't think he hit
him with a low blow. But regardless, I also think
Usik would have gotten up had the referee started counting
in his face. But watching that first fight happen, you
saw him potentially Daniel dubuago, Okay, I haven't been to
this place before and I don't like it, so let
me get out of here, right. You could extrapolate that
there was a bit of a mental switch that was
(09:46):
shut off where he was like, ah, I'm kind of done.
This is not something I want to do right now.
If he's figured that out, and mentally, like he's talking about,
he's more confident this time around. That could lead to
a different fight, absolutely, because I was doing very well
in the first fight and then things went downhill and
he kind of let it go downhill. He let that
snowball build as it was coming downhill. So I like
(10:06):
his answer there, But there's also a part of me
that goes, has he even accepted that this fight may
go back to the same place it was in the
first fight, Meaning there's gonna be adversity at some point
here for Daniel Dubois almost certainly, is he ready mentally
for that moment. I think through the fights he's been
in so far, that's prepared. But those fights with Joshua
(10:27):
Herkovich and Miller, those guys hadn't beaten him yet. Whosikat.
It's one thing to battle through adversity in a fight
that's back and forth. It's another thing to battle the
man that already beats you, and he beats you after
you had good moments. Coming back to that second time around,
how do you face him if things don't go your
way or if things are back and forth even the
second time. You get what I'm saying, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Question asked Alexander, did anything surprise you about him?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
No? No, to be honest, really no.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
The power everybody talks about the power of Daniel Jubla
The biggest punch you've been in the ring with.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Hmm I didn't know, no, mm hm, who was the
biggest punch up? My name is Derek really.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Hard?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Interesting, okay, Lexander Ussig says, there, Derek Chazora punch is
harder than Daniel Dubois. I mean, listen, a heavyweight measuring
someone's punch, unless you're Deontay Wilder, Erdie Shavers or Archie
Moore or you know, like George Foreman, Mike Tyson, unless
you're like a one of one of your generation. When
it comes to power punching and boxing, everybody hits hard,
(11:46):
right Like everybody at heavyweight hits Usik hits hard. Usik
had Tyson Fury doing the freaking Chicken dance. I'm talking
dj unk walk it out in that first fight. He
was dragging him all over the ring like Tyson was
on a three day bender. That's how bad that USA
had him hurt with a left hand. So everyone hits hard, obviously,
Daniel Dubois hits hard. That division has a big time
(12:08):
right hand, left hook. He's got power. But as far
as like, oh, does he hit harder than I don't
think it matters because if Duba hits you on the chin,
it doesn't matter if he hits harder than Chazora or
Joshua or Wilder. It's heavyweight boxing and he's two hundred
and forty maybe two hundred and fifty pounds. He touched
you on the chin, you're going to sleep or at
least you're losing your legs. You're getting the zab Judah
noodle legs again. I think this is a little bit
(12:29):
of mind games from Usik. He may be telling the truth,
but this little laugh at the end of it here
tells me that. Yeah, Like I think he wants to
plant that seed in Daniel Dubois's mind, Like, Bro, you
don't even hit that hard. You'd be the big power
puncher man. That's that's That's not something I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It harder than Daniel.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, was you surprised when Daniel didn't get to his
feet when you hit him with that job?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, there was a lot of controversy after that first
fight with the show.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'll say this, that jab was not a regular jab
from Usik. He put a lot into that jab. That
was more of a powerful jab, more than just like
a touch jab or you know, something to find range with.
He was trying to hurt him with that jab. Again.
I think there was a mental component from Duba to say,
I can make a choice right here, and I don't
want any more of what I'm going through at this moment.
(13:28):
But I do think it hurt it. I think it
hurt him enough to send him down. I don't know
if it hurt him enough to keep him down, But regardless,
that was a tough shot USA hit him with, and
there were more shots in that round and in that
exchange that Usik was having success with that du Watch
didn't want any more. I don't think it was a
one shot knockout punch. I think it was an accumulation
of things that were happening to Daniel du Wah.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
He's not sup on it because my job was hard.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Was it a hard jeb?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I don't want to even go there. We're talking about
that pass and go because I don't know what you're
trying to I know what you're doing you're doing your job,
but I'm looking forward to, you know, causing chaos in
the ring on Saturday, and that's my game priority.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Man, that question shook up Daniel. This is what I'm
talking about now. Again, I know mentally he's trying to
be like, I don't even want to talk about that
because that's done and gone and again. And he said
that the cause chaos and the ring thing. Again, I
have to think that's like he comes in the gym
every day with that on his mind, because he said
it like four times in this face off. But again,
(14:31):
you just see how he reacts to anything that happened
in that first fight. First off, he's like, I don't
know what you're trying to pull here, but I know
what you're trying to do your job. And again, every
fighter has their way of coping with a rematch that
they lost the first fight in or things they need
to adjust in in their career to come back stronger.
I actually think the loss for Daniel Dubai was such
a good thing for his career. And again I've been,
(14:54):
you know, shouting this from the rooftop. When it comes
to boxing specifically, a loss does not hinder your career.
As much as it can help your career if you
learn from the loss and come back and implement the
things that you did wrong there and worked on to
make them right. I think it is such a big
help to fighters. Not that you should go out there
with the idea of I should lose, but if you do,
(15:15):
it's not the end of the world, is my point.
And actually I think it made Daniel do Bois a
better fighter. But I am worried again where he's like, yeah,
we don't. I'm not even gonna talk about that as
he accepted it, not that he even has to, but
I think mentally it does play a part if you
get into trouble again you haven't accepted it yet the
first time, or you haven't even you know, opened your
(15:35):
mind to going back and looking at that and saying, Okay,
what could I have done better? If it happens again,
if he gets in a bad spot again, where does
this fight go? I don't know. Just keep an eye
on that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Your form has been brilliant of late. What do you
put that down.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
To hunger and desire? And you know, just you know,
as you're a fight you want to become the best.
So that and I've seen my around me, my dad,
and that that circle in a circle kept me strong
in who I am today.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Do you look at that first fight. I think I'm
a completely different animal now.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I've moved past. I'm resurrected myself and I feel
like I knew already ready, fight, ready for anyone in
the world.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
This shot that was called low. If if the referee
had started counting, would you have got to your feet?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
See, I just think that that shot is beltlined to me,
man referee had started counting, Like I know where it
touches to begin with. I get that like first impact.
But yeah, I mean I can I can see it
being called low, to be honest, but I just I
think it's very borderline. And one thing's for sure. Usik
(16:49):
did not get punched in the nuts here. Like for
the people that are calling it a low blow, that's
not where your your nuts are, Like you know what
I'm saying like that even there USI's nuts are not
at his v what I'm saying, like he didn't get
hitting the balls here. I don't know if he's Connor
McGregor out here, he might have got punched in the mchog.
But this is not. The reaction that Usik gave off
this punch, to me was more so because he was
(17:12):
allowed to have the time by the referee, and I
think it hurt him more to the body than it
did to the nuts, If that makes sense. I think
that's the best way to describe this. Could it have
been by letter of the law? Low? Sure. I still
think it's a bit borderline. But at the same time,
I don't think he was hitting the nuts. I do
think he was hitting the lower stomach abdomen region and
(17:33):
he did not like that, and the referee gave him time,
so he took it right. That is, I mean, that's smart,
that's a veteran move. If the referee got in his
face and was one two, I think Usik gets back
to his feet.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Would you have got to your feet?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yes, of course. I recover him, which was hot because
my my bow say hey Alex, whoa, whoa wo So
it's both pain, but it's not like a body, it's
(18:09):
X it's different.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well, I've heard Don Charles, your coach.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Said that was interesting. Alex said his corner was like,
hey Alex, whoa, whoa, whoa, So he took the time.
I don't know what again, Usik. It's sometimes tough to understand,
but he's essentially saying it wasn't a body shot. It
was different.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Pain.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm not him, so I can't. I can't. I'm not
gonna dispute like what he felt, just what I see.
I don't know. That doesn't that doesn't seem like it
was a nutshot.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
That he believed that Alexander calmed the reft and the boxing.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Don't even go there, don't know. This is today, this
is now. I'm going to enjoy this far. I want
to enjoy this far, so we'll see.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I like that, man, Okay, I like that that answer
from Daniel Dubois Like, yeah, no, we're not here talking
about the low blow. We're not here to worry about
what he did or didn't do and the rules set
and all that call that we're here for this by that, Okay,
that's a strong confident answer. All right, do boir? You
like that?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
But that's how do you stop Daniel from enjoying it?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
This was wonderful because it's.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It will be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Your performance will be wonderful. Are you still very hungry?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah? I continue I continue to feel I'm hungry for
boxing training, not training too, but my training, I prepare
for this fight twenty three years, all my all, my life.
(19:49):
But boxing is like oxygen for me.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Just an interesting answer there, he says that I'm still
hungry for and then he started to be like training,
maybe not, and then he kind of saved it and
was like, well, I've been training for twenty three years
for this. Boxing is what gets me out of bed. Training,
but boxing gets him out of bed. That's a little interesting, right,
because you know they go hand in hand. You have
(20:17):
to sacrifice for however many months your life potentially, you know,
time with your family, all this other stuff to train.
And let's be honest, I can't speak for professionals. When
I had my little rinkyd Ink fight, I hated training
and I only trained for like a month or so,
and I couldn't stand it, right, I could not stand
(20:37):
how tired I was all the time, how irritable I was,
how just it's what it does to you. Boxing is
a very hard sport to train, but the payoff is
the fight, and Usik is in my opinion, they're saying, yeah,
you know, I'm not as as in love with training
anymore as maybe I was when I was younger, but
I still love boxing. That mean he didn't commit as
(20:59):
hard to this training camp or you know. I don't know,
but it's an interesting answer because as we all know,
we don't think Usik has many fights left. Like Barker
said earlier, he's thirty eight off two big twelve round fights.
I don't know, but that's just an interesting way for
him to phrase it. I'm not in love with training anymore,
or at least not as much as I was. But
boxing is like air to me. It's like oxygen. Off it.
(21:21):
I'll have an effect, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Just being more aggressive this time, being more offensive, letting
the hands go, being dominant on the front foot. Is
that how you plan on heah tackling this fight.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And are you prepared for anything that Daniel brings your way?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yes, of course. Listen, it's a young guy. This guy
on take my my belts. I not wanna give from
my belts.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Listen. I mean, Darren really kind of answered the question
for Duda. But yeah, that's the right attitude to have.
You have to be able to throw the kitchen sink
at Usik. You need to go forward, you need to
be aggressive. Daniel Duwass talking about bringing chaos to the ring.
All that is great, but you still have to maintain
some semblance of caution with Alexander Usik, not to say
you shouldn't go and pressure him and go and put
(22:21):
it on him and really try to walk him down
and bully him a bit. I think that's the right
game plan. I think that's what Daniel duboaugh has to
do and not get behind the eight ball with Usik
trying to walk him down. But you can't do it recklessly,
or at least not for long. Derek Shizora tried that
and eventually it was found out right like that was.
People say that was one of the toughest fights for
Usik at heavyweight, but eventually Usik found it and was
(22:41):
able to put it on Derek and win that fight.
So I don't I don't like to just go out
on my shield type of strategy here for Duboi or
you know, we gotta get it done early before Usik
starts ramping up. I don't like that, because you're gonna
be in for a long time. It's gonna be tough
to catch Usik the way you caught Anthony Joshua because
I don't know what the Joshua was doing in that fight.
Just defense was out the window. Usik's gonna be as
(23:04):
tice and Fury calls him he's a rabbit. He's gonna
be tough to catch, right, So like I said, oh,
that's the right idea from Daniel Dubois. You better have
some sort of caution, some sort of mind to here
comes the CounterPunch, because if you walk onto one, that
can change the fight too.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If you win this fight Saturday night, will we see
you in the ring again or not?
Speaker 4 (23:25):
If? When?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
When?
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And what would it mean to be the first British
four belt undisputed heavyweight champion of.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
The world, the best of this oven of my era.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right, Alexander, tell Daniel how you beat him on Saturday night?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
We will see it's on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah, a masterclass of course, the same for you, Daniel.
Chaos does this go to distance?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
In your opinion?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's chaos for as long as it last?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, all right, there it is now listen. Neither guy
is a picture of Dadil. Neither guy is a wordsmith, right,
and we don't expect him to be. That's not what
sells this fight. What sells this fight are these three words,
undisputed heavyweight championship. This is the baddest man in boxing
(24:24):
right here. The winner of this fight is the baddest
boxer on the planet. And that's kind of what we
got here. You didn't get any sort of like Circus
cell or any kind of like either guy being outside
of themselves to try to sell a fight. What sells
it is the goal. The intensity is there. Du Wa
keeps bringing up chaos. I need to bring chaos to
this fight, and I like the idea of it, honestly
(24:46):
I do. I like the idea of shaking things up.
And you can't fall into the same things that Joshua
did twice, that Tyson Fury did twice with trying to to,
you know, box with Alexander Ussik exclusively, especially if you're
gonna let him walk forward and takes center of the ring,
it's not gonna happen. But you also can't get reckless
right when you are coming forward because Usik is still
such a tactician and he's deadly accurate. And if I'm
(25:08):
gonna give a prediction right now, because it's two days
away from the fight, I am gonna go with Usik.
I do think Usik wins this fight, potentially via decision.
I think this one's gonna be a little bit of
a tougher fight for Usik, in a closer fight than
the first one, and the first one was a close fight.
I still think Dubois has more than just a chance
of winning this fight. I think that Dubois, I mean,
(25:29):
maybe it's sixty forty, maybe seventy thirty, but I think
he's got some real skill. We all know that Usik
doesn't like body puning. Not to say that that he
would have been stopped by the body punch that Dubois
hit him with in the first fight, but if you
get to his body, he doesn't like it. We've seen
it in so many different fights. He doesn't react well.
Joshua got to him and he turned and looked at
the referee like that'll be a massive factor here if
if Duwac can get to his body early, drop the
(25:50):
hands and then bring the hammer behind it up top.
I still think that Usik is a spry thirty eight.
I think his footwork's going to be key here because
Dua is going to try to come and push him
back and pressure him and Bowlly him. I think Usik
using the entirety of the ring kind of like he
did against Derek Chazora, is gonna be a major factor.
You could even look at this fight as potentially, you know,
(26:11):
a very similar fight to the Usik Derec Chizora fight,
except j Wah is a lot better than Chazora is.
He's not as clunky, he's not as stiff, and he's
not as sloppy. And that's what makes this interesting. If
he's really gonna bring that chaos, be on the front
foot trying to walk Usik down and have violence in
his hands to the body end upstairs, great combo puncher
is Daniel Dubois shit as I'm saying, and I'm kind
(26:33):
of wanting to change my pick, but I'll stay with Usik,
and I'll say, either by decision or potentially another late
stoppage when things go awry for Daniel Dubois, if Usik's
able to get that ball rolling downhill again, what does
the mindset of Duboi do in the latter half of
that fight. But regardless, it's a great fight and I'm
gonna be live once again this Saturday for this fight
(26:55):
all the way through the end. Of Manny Pacyal Mario
Barrios and you three eighteen will probably be like a
twelve hour stream. I want to see you guys there.
As far as what happens in the fight itself, my
pick Usik by decision, but I don't have those answers.
Undisputed heavyweight championship on the line this Saturday, will it
be Usik or Dubois, I guess we'll find out
All right, so we are back on the way concept
presented by the Ring and today we are taking a
look at the heavyweight rematch for the undisputed Championship of
the World, Alexander Usik versus Daniel Dubois number two rematch.
After some we'll say controversy in the first fight, I
kind of agree, but we'll get into why after we
take a look at their first face off this fight week.
(00:23):
They sat down face to face and as we know,
both of them are not great talkers. But I want
to take a look and see what the energy is.
I want to see what Daniel Dubois brings differently to
this fight than he brought to the first fight. I
want to see if Usik still has that passion at
the top level to take down and reinvigorated Daniel Dubois.
But before we do any of that, I want to
let you guys know two things. Number One, I am
(00:45):
live this Saturday for this fight Usik Duboi, number two,
Manny Paciel, Mario Barrios and UFC three eighteen. And I
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for sponsoring this video. Now let's get back to the breakdown. So,
like I said, let's see if we can read into
the messaging between Daniel Dubois and all his under Usik
and between the two of them, what has changed from
the first fight to now it's the face off breakdown.
Let's go by the way. I don't know if you
(02:33):
guys saw this. I need to find the actual the
video Danieldubaus screaming in Usak's face when they dropped down
yesterday in London. This is actually the first face off
of fight week. I guess look at the confidence oozing
out of both guys. Usik very stoic. Daniel Dubois, well yeah,
he's Daniel dubah screaming the way that Daniel Dubois acts.
(03:05):
It's nonelike any other fighter I've ever seen. He is
just fully himself. I think sometimes he even has no
idea the moment that he's in and he's just I
don't know, I don't know how to describe it. He's
just himself and it's refreshing. He's not trying to be,
you know, a crazy good shit talker. He's not even
trying to be intimidating. He's just telling it like he
(03:25):
sees it. And even when he says like and the
new it, he's screaming it in Usk's face. I don't
think that's projection. I think that's the confidence he feels
after his run after the first fight or he got
knocked down and eventually stopped with the jab from Usik,
the run he's been on since the Miller fight, Hergovich, Joshua,
all these things back to back to back and all
(03:47):
of them being stoppages, has led him back to this moment.
I think that screaming in Usik's face is letting him know, like, listen,
this is a different, a different Daniel Dubois. So anyway,
let's get into the actual face to face.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Here we go again, do you think you could be
getting Alexander at a good time. He's at two hard,
twelve round fights with Tyson Fury, obviously thirty eight. Now
is this your time?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You could say that, but I don't want to even
even put it down to just been being an old man.
I've got to prove myself.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I love it, dude. Again, Daniel Dubois not even trying
to put down Usik when he's talking about him. He's
just telling it like he truly wants this to be
looked at. He's just blunt, that's all it is. He's like, listen,
I don't want anybody to just put this down to
him being an old man when I destroy him right Like,
he does not want any excuses. But he's not even
(04:40):
trying to be disrespectful. He's he's just blunt, and I
like it. I like the fact that he's like, yeah, no,
we're not gonna sit here and act like if I
beat him, it's because he went through to twelve round
fights with Tyson Fury and that he's thirty eight. Now,
if I win, or I guess he would say win,
I win, it's gonna be because Daniel Dubois got better,
not because Usik got war right, But just like the
(05:01):
way he said, He's like, we're not gonna act like
he's just an old man.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't want to even even put it down to
just been being an old man. I've got to prove
myself and you know, bring chaos in the ring. I
bring him the force I have that will be waiting
what's needed. Really, but I stand more to gain. He's
at the end of his career. I stand more to
game for a win, getting all the belts. That means,
you know, that's the start for me.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Really, He's like, I don't want to put it down
to Usik being at the end of his career, but
he is at the end of his career and I
am not. So he is an old man.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What are your memories of the first fight with Daniel Marina? Yeah,
did anything surprise you about Daniel?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
No? No boxing, boxing, don't have surprise.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, how do you approach this fight?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Usik is just I mean again, he's never been like
a crazy wordsmith. Obviously speak English and not his native tongue,
but it's simple but effective the way that he does
these like face offs and you know, if there are
mind games back and forth, he usually is getting the best.
He got the better of Tyson Fury in the mind
game stuff leading up to both of their fights, where
Tyson usually is the big talker, and you know he's
(06:18):
calling him rabbit and sausage and all this, and Musick
was just calm, cool, collected laughing at Tyson Fury and
got the better of him. Got Tyson all out of
sorts even an answer like that, He's like, what do
you remember about the first fight? He's like, I won,
That's what I remember, And no, do why didn't surprise me?
Because it's boxing, I'm ready for whatever, Like it's simple
but effective.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Differently this time confidence, I'm ready to seize victory.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Is it about fronting the kitchen sink?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's about getting victory? Seriously, you know, I've worked hard
for it and now we want to cause chass in
the ring and restore it rewarded with victory. So that's
my That's that's my mindset.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
That's twice. Now do why said he wants to cause
chaos in the ring. That seems like, you know, a
message they've had in camp, something that he definitely wants
to try to flesh out in real time. And what
I think he means, if I'm just trying to guess,
he's gonna try to take the fight to Alexander Usik,
and I think it's a good idea. You can't let
Usik get downhill and push you back. Tyson Fury let
him push him back twice. He didn't go well for him.
(07:18):
Anthony Joshua let Usi get on the front foot and
it didn't go well for him. Duboi when he was
in that first fight and things started to not go
his way, Usik got downhill and didn't go well for him.
You do need to keep pressure on Usik. He is
a technician, and eventually, if he's allowed to walk forward
and start the exchanges and keep his offensive volume up,
(07:38):
he's gonna find an open. When he finds it, he's
gonna go back to the well and it's gonna hurt you.
So when he's talking about causing chaos in the ring,
I have to think he means be first, be on
the front foot and make Usik adjust to him, versus
him adjusting to Usik. Or make Usik a little hesitant
to throw versus him being hesitant to throw and welcoming
a firefight is what is what Daniel Duboa is essentially
(07:58):
saying there, I don't I don't know about all that,
but I do like the idea of him being first,
him being on the front foot, and him pushing and
pressuring Usik versus just allowing Usik to stand in the
middle and then eventually pushing back. That can't happen for
Daniel dybe.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
What was it like sharing the ring with Usik? Everyone
calling Alexander a master? What was it like sharing a
ring with a master?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I look, look, I've come on since then, I've resurrected myself,
so I feel, you know, just ready for the ready
for a new beginning reade. I'm ready for a great fight,
looking forward to a great fight, and yeah, I'm excited
for it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Same. It's interesting the way that Duboy answered that question.
It's like in his mind he didn't even want to
give up the fact that Usik either got the better
of him in the first fight or that Usik was
a master of boxing. I kind of like that mindset
to be, like, I'm not even gonna entertain what happened
in the first fight. It's done and over. I've moved on. Then,
a part of me kind of looks that and goes, oh, man,
Daniel's having a real hard time except than he lost
(09:03):
that first fight, where he's like, oh, I've changed since then,
and you know, I'm better now. My confidence is higher now.
When you're starting to talk about like reasons Daniel lost
the first fight, you can say a big part of it,
people on the outside say, was, you know, he didn't
have the confidence to weather adversity, right, he didn't have
the confidence to stay on task when Usik started to
turn the tide after the low blow and everything else.
(09:25):
By the way, I'm still on the fence about that
being a low blow. I genuinely don't think he hit
him with a low blow. But regardless, I also think
Usik would have gotten up had the referee started counting
in his face. But watching that first fight happen, you
saw him potentially Daniel dubuago, Okay, I haven't been to
this place before and I don't like it, so let
me get out of here, right. You could extrapolate that
there was a bit of a mental switch that was
(09:46):
shut off where he was like, ah, I'm kind of done.
This is not something I want to do right now.
If he's figured that out, and mentally, like he's talking about,
he's more confident this time around. That could lead to
a different fight, absolutely, because I was doing very well
in the first fight and then things went downhill and
he kind of let it go downhill. He let that
snowball build as it was coming downhill. So I like
(10:06):
his answer there, But there's also a part of me
that goes, has he even accepted that this fight may
go back to the same place it was in the
first fight, Meaning there's gonna be adversity at some point
here for Daniel Dubois almost certainly, is he ready mentally
for that moment. I think through the fights he's been
in so far, that's prepared. But those fights with Joshua
(10:27):
Herkovich and Miller, those guys hadn't beaten him yet. Whosikat.
It's one thing to battle through adversity in a fight
that's back and forth. It's another thing to battle the
man that already beats you, and he beats you after
you had good moments. Coming back to that second time around,
how do you face him if things don't go your
way or if things are back and forth even the
second time. You get what I'm saying, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Question asked Alexander, did anything surprise you about him?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
No? No, to be honest, really no.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
The power everybody talks about the power of Daniel Jubla
The biggest punch you've been in the ring with.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Hmm I didn't know, no, mm hm, who was the
biggest punch up? My name is Derek really.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Hard?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Interesting, okay, Lexander Ussig says, there, Derek Chazora punch is
harder than Daniel Dubois. I mean, listen, a heavyweight measuring
someone's punch, unless you're Deontay Wilder, Erdie Shavers or Archie
Moore or you know, like George Foreman, Mike Tyson, unless
you're like a one of one of your generation. When
it comes to power punching and boxing, everybody hits hard,
(11:46):
right Like everybody at heavyweight hits Usik hits hard. Usik
had Tyson Fury doing the freaking Chicken dance. I'm talking
dj unk walk it out in that first fight. He
was dragging him all over the ring like Tyson was
on a three day bender. That's how bad that USA
had him hurt with a left hand. So everyone hits hard, obviously,
Daniel Dubois hits hard. That division has a big time
(12:08):
right hand, left hook. He's got power. But as far
as like, oh, does he hit harder than I don't
think it matters because if Duba hits you on the chin,
it doesn't matter if he hits harder than Chazora or
Joshua or Wilder. It's heavyweight boxing and he's two hundred
and forty maybe two hundred and fifty pounds. He touched
you on the chin, you're going to sleep or at
least you're losing your legs. You're getting the zab Judah
noodle legs again. I think this is a little bit
(12:29):
of mind games from Usik. He may be telling the truth,
but this little laugh at the end of it here
tells me that. Yeah, Like I think he wants to
plant that seed in Daniel Dubois's mind, Like, Bro, you
don't even hit that hard. You'd be the big power
puncher man. That's that's That's not something I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It harder than Daniel.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Yeah, was you surprised when Daniel didn't get to his
feet when you hit him with that job?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, there was a lot of controversy after that first
fight with the show.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'll say this, that jab was not a regular jab
from Usik. He put a lot into that jab. That
was more of a powerful jab, more than just like
a touch jab or you know, something to find range with.
He was trying to hurt him with that jab. Again.
I think there was a mental component from Duba to say,
I can make a choice right here, and I don't
want any more of what I'm going through at this moment.
(13:28):
But I do think it hurt it. I think it
hurt him enough to send him down. I don't know
if it hurt him enough to keep him down, But regardless,
that was a tough shot USA hit him with, and
there were more shots in that round and in that
exchange that Usik was having success with that du Watch
didn't want any more. I don't think it was a
one shot knockout punch. I think it was an accumulation
of things that were happening to Daniel du Wah.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
He's not sup on it because my job was hard.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Was it a hard jeb?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I don't want to even go there. We're talking about
that pass and go because I don't know what you're
trying to I know what you're doing you're doing your job,
but I'm looking forward to, you know, causing chaos in
the ring on Saturday, and that's my game priority.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Man, that question shook up Daniel. This is what I'm
talking about now. Again, I know mentally he's trying to
be like, I don't even want to talk about that
because that's done and gone and again. And he said
that the cause chaos and the ring thing. Again, I
have to think that's like he comes in the gym
every day with that on his mind, because he said
it like four times in this face off. But again,
(14:31):
you just see how he reacts to anything that happened
in that first fight. First off, he's like, I don't
know what you're trying to pull here, but I know
what you're trying to do your job. And again, every
fighter has their way of coping with a rematch that
they lost the first fight in or things they need
to adjust in in their career to come back stronger.
I actually think the loss for Daniel Dubai was such
a good thing for his career. And again I've been,
(14:54):
you know, shouting this from the rooftop. When it comes
to boxing specifically, a loss does not hinder your career.
As much as it can help your career if you
learn from the loss and come back and implement the
things that you did wrong there and worked on to
make them right. I think it is such a big
help to fighters. Not that you should go out there
with the idea of I should lose, but if you do,
(15:15):
it's not the end of the world, is my point.
And actually I think it made Daniel do Bois a
better fighter. But I am worried again where he's like, yeah,
we don't. I'm not even gonna talk about that as
he accepted it, not that he even has to, but
I think mentally it does play a part if you
get into trouble again you haven't accepted it yet the
first time, or you haven't even you know, opened your
(15:35):
mind to going back and looking at that and saying, Okay,
what could I have done better? If it happens again,
if he gets in a bad spot again, where does
this fight go? I don't know. Just keep an eye
on that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Your form has been brilliant of late. What do you
put that down.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
To hunger and desire? And you know, just you know,
as you're a fight you want to become the best.
So that and I've seen my around me, my dad,
and that that circle in a circle kept me strong
in who I am today.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Do you look at that first fight. I think I'm
a completely different animal now.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I've moved past. I'm resurrected myself and I feel
like I knew already ready, fight, ready for anyone in
the world.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
This shot that was called low. If if the referee
had started counting, would you have got to your feet?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
See, I just think that that shot is beltlined to me,
man referee had started counting, Like I know where it
touches to begin with. I get that like first impact.
But yeah, I mean I can I can see it
being called low, to be honest, but I just I
think it's very borderline. And one thing's for sure. Usik
(16:49):
did not get punched in the nuts here. Like for
the people that are calling it a low blow, that's
not where your your nuts are, Like you know what
I'm saying like that even there USI's nuts are not
at his v what I'm saying, like he didn't get
hitting the balls here. I don't know if he's Connor
McGregor out here, he might have got punched in the mchog.
But this is not. The reaction that Usik gave off
this punch, to me was more so because he was
(17:12):
allowed to have the time by the referee, and I
think it hurt him more to the body than it
did to the nuts, If that makes sense. I think
that's the best way to describe this. Could it have
been by letter of the law? Low? Sure. I still
think it's a bit borderline. But at the same time,
I don't think he was hitting the nuts. I do
think he was hitting the lower stomach abdomen region and
(17:33):
he did not like that, and the referee gave him time,
so he took it right. That is, I mean, that's smart,
that's a veteran move. If the referee got in his
face and was one two, I think Usik gets back
to his feet.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Would you have got to your feet?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yes, of course. I recover him, which was hot because
my my bow say hey Alex, whoa, whoa wo So
it's both pain, but it's not like a body, it's
(18:09):
X it's different.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well, I've heard Don Charles, your coach.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Said that was interesting. Alex said his corner was like,
hey Alex, whoa, whoa, whoa, So he took the time.
I don't know what again, Usik. It's sometimes tough to understand,
but he's essentially saying it wasn't a body shot. It
was different.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Pain.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm not him, so I can't. I can't. I'm not
gonna dispute like what he felt, just what I see.
I don't know. That doesn't that doesn't seem like it
was a nutshot.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
That he believed that Alexander calmed the reft and the boxing.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Don't even go there, don't know. This is today, this
is now. I'm going to enjoy this far. I want
to enjoy this far, so we'll see.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I like that, man, Okay, I like that that answer
from Daniel Dubois Like, yeah, no, we're not here talking
about the low blow. We're not here to worry about
what he did or didn't do and the rules set
and all that call that we're here for this by that, Okay,
that's a strong confident answer. All right, do boir? You
like that?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
But that's how do you stop Daniel from enjoying it?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
This was wonderful because it's.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It will be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Your performance will be wonderful. Are you still very hungry?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah? I continue I continue to feel I'm hungry for
boxing training, not training too, but my training, I prepare
for this fight twenty three years, all my all, my life.
(19:49):
But boxing is like oxygen for me.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Just an interesting answer there, he says that I'm still
hungry for and then he started to be like training,
maybe not, and then he kind of saved it and
was like, well, I've been training for twenty three years
for this. Boxing is what gets me out of bed. Training,
but boxing gets him out of bed. That's a little interesting, right,
because you know they go hand in hand. You have
(20:17):
to sacrifice for however many months your life potentially, you know,
time with your family, all this other stuff to train.
And let's be honest, I can't speak for professionals. When
I had my little rinkyd Ink fight, I hated training
and I only trained for like a month or so,
and I couldn't stand it, right, I could not stand
(20:37):
how tired I was all the time, how irritable I was,
how just it's what it does to you. Boxing is
a very hard sport to train, but the payoff is
the fight, and Usik is in my opinion, they're saying, yeah,
you know, I'm not as as in love with training
anymore as maybe I was when I was younger, but
I still love boxing. That mean he didn't commit as
(20:59):
hard to this training camp or you know. I don't know,
but it's an interesting answer because as we all know,
we don't think Usik has many fights left. Like Barker
said earlier, he's thirty eight off two big twelve round fights.
I don't know, but that's just an interesting way for
him to phrase it. I'm not in love with training anymore,
or at least not as much as I was. But
boxing is like air to me. It's like oxygen. Off it.
(21:21):
I'll have an effect, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Just being more aggressive this time, being more offensive, letting
the hands go, being dominant on the front foot. Is
that how you plan on heah tackling this fight.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And are you prepared for anything that Daniel brings your way?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yes, of course. Listen, it's a young guy. This guy
on take my my belts. I not wanna give from
my belts.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Listen. I mean, Darren really kind of answered the question
for Duda. But yeah, that's the right attitude to have.
You have to be able to throw the kitchen sink
at Usik. You need to go forward, you need to
be aggressive. Daniel Duwass talking about bringing chaos to the ring.
All that is great, but you still have to maintain
some semblance of caution with Alexander Usik, not to say
you shouldn't go and pressure him and go and put
(22:21):
it on him and really try to walk him down
and bully him a bit. I think that's the right
game plan. I think that's what Daniel duboaugh has to
do and not get behind the eight ball with Usik
trying to walk him down. But you can't do it recklessly,
or at least not for long. Derek Shizora tried that
and eventually it was found out right like that was.
People say that was one of the toughest fights for
Usik at heavyweight, but eventually Usik found it and was
(22:41):
able to put it on Derek and win that fight.
So I don't I don't like to just go out
on my shield type of strategy here for Duboi or
you know, we gotta get it done early before Usik
starts ramping up. I don't like that, because you're gonna
be in for a long time. It's gonna be tough
to catch Usik the way you caught Anthony Joshua because
I don't know what the Joshua was doing in that fight.
Just defense was out the window. Usik's gonna be as
(23:04):
tice and Fury calls him he's a rabbit. He's gonna
be tough to catch, right, So like I said, oh,
that's the right idea from Daniel Dubois. You better have
some sort of caution, some sort of mind to here
comes the CounterPunch, because if you walk onto one, that
can change the fight too.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If you win this fight Saturday night, will we see
you in the ring again or not?
Speaker 4 (23:25):
If? When?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
When?
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And what would it mean to be the first British
four belt undisputed heavyweight champion of.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
The world, the best of this oven of my era.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right, Alexander, tell Daniel how you beat him on Saturday night?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
We will see it's on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah, a masterclass of course, the same for you, Daniel.
Chaos does this go to distance?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
In your opinion?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's chaos for as long as it last?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, all right, there it is now listen. Neither guy
is a picture of Dadil. Neither guy is a wordsmith, right,
and we don't expect him to be. That's not what
sells this fight. What sells this fight are these three words,
undisputed heavyweight championship. This is the baddest man in boxing
(24:24):
right here. The winner of this fight is the baddest
boxer on the planet. And that's kind of what we
got here. You didn't get any sort of like Circus
cell or any kind of like either guy being outside
of themselves to try to sell a fight. What sells
it is the goal. The intensity is there. Du Wa
keeps bringing up chaos. I need to bring chaos to
this fight, and I like the idea of it, honestly
(24:46):
I do. I like the idea of shaking things up.
And you can't fall into the same things that Joshua
did twice, that Tyson Fury did twice with trying to to,
you know, box with Alexander Ussik exclusively, especially if you're
gonna let him walk forward and takes center of the ring,
it's not gonna happen. But you also can't get reckless
right when you are coming forward because Usik is still
such a tactician and he's deadly accurate. And if I'm
(25:08):
gonna give a prediction right now, because it's two days
away from the fight, I am gonna go with Usik.
I do think Usik wins this fight, potentially via decision.
I think this one's gonna be a little bit of
a tougher fight for Usik, in a closer fight than
the first one, and the first one was a close fight.
I still think Dubois has more than just a chance
of winning this fight. I think that Dubois, I mean,
(25:29):
maybe it's sixty forty, maybe seventy thirty, but I think
he's got some real skill. We all know that Usik
doesn't like body puning. Not to say that that he
would have been stopped by the body punch that Dubois
hit him with in the first fight, but if you
get to his body, he doesn't like it. We've seen
it in so many different fights. He doesn't react well.
Joshua got to him and he turned and looked at
the referee like that'll be a massive factor here if
if Duwac can get to his body early, drop the
(25:50):
hands and then bring the hammer behind it up top.
I still think that Usik is a spry thirty eight.
I think his footwork's going to be key here because
Dua is going to try to come and push him
back and pressure him and Bowlly him. I think Usik
using the entirety of the ring kind of like he
did against Derek Chazora, is gonna be a major factor.
You could even look at this fight as potentially, you know,
(26:11):
a very similar fight to the Usik Derec Chizora fight,
except j Wah is a lot better than Chazora is.
He's not as clunky, he's not as stiff, and he's
not as sloppy. And that's what makes this interesting. If
he's really gonna bring that chaos, be on the front
foot trying to walk Usik down and have violence in
his hands to the body end upstairs, great combo puncher
is Daniel Dubois shit as I'm saying, and I'm kind
(26:33):
of wanting to change my pick, but I'll stay with Usik,
and I'll say, either by decision or potentially another late
stoppage when things go awry for Daniel Dubois, if Usik's
able to get that ball rolling downhill again, what does
the mindset of Duboi do in the latter half of
that fight. But regardless, it's a great fight and I'm
gonna be live once again this Saturday for this fight
(26:55):
all the way through the end. Of Manny Pacyal Mario
Barrios and you three eighteen will probably be like a
twelve hour stream. I want to see you guys there.
As far as what happens in the fight itself, my
pick Usik by decision, but I don't have those answers.
Undisputed heavyweight championship on the line this Saturday, will it
be Usik or Dubois, I guess we'll find out
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