April 1, 2025 • 39 mins
Marcus King grew up in Greenville, SC, watching people around him get written off—criminalized instead of helped, cast aside instead of supported. His own story could have gone the same way. Instead, music, finding sobriety, and building supportive community saved him. In this episode, Marcus talks about his journey to sobriety, the shifting cultural conversation around addiction, and why meeting people where they are—without stigma or judgment—is the key to real change.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I always like to reiterate that I'm California sober and
people often comment about, you know, my usage of cannabis
products as a sober man, and you know, that really
takes me off because I really view it medicinally.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
But anyway, Lava for Good and Stand Together in Music
Present The War on Drugs Podcast, Season two. This season,
we're diving deeper into the real stories behind the War
on Drugs, It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
A better path forward.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Today on the show, Grammy nominated musician, singer, songwriter, guitarist,
hailed as the next Stevie ray Vaughn and founder of
the Curfew Foundation, a support system for musicians from all
walks of life who are battling challenges with mental health
and addiction. Mister Marcus King, all right, welcome to another
(00:49):
episode of The War on drug Among.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
We back at it, We back added.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Season two is running strong and we lean on our
guests heavy on this season. We always lean on our guests,
but we really lean on him for their stories.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, we got all your comments and reviews from the
less of us.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We understand that's what they said.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's what they say, But you know, what like, it's
not about us. It's true. It's about the issue.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
It's about the people. So you need to hear from.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It if our feeling is going to hurt in the process.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But without us, you wouldn't. You wouldn't have heard these stories.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You might have heard a story.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, don't kill the messenger the messenger exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, I like where your heads. I really do like
where your heads out there, Clayton.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Where we had to day? This one you did solo?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I did solo.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
This one was awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It combines a concert that I got to go to.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
He's performing in DC, Marcus King.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
I wanted to hate on you doing it solo, but
I can't. You took your wife to the concert, went
to the concert you enjoyed.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I couldn't. I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I wouldn't want you to take me to the concert.
I mean, yeah, not with your wife at home. Yeah,
that's a lot more explaining.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it was an interesting time.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was like an old opera theater and then it
was like southern rock play and it was it was
like it was like it was very it was cool
and she brought a dog to the interview, which was awesome. Yeah,
Duck was here and that was amazing. That was the
best part of the whole thing. So stop by in
between he was in between doing like dress rehearsals and
all that, Mike checks and he was able to cop
by and kind of talk to us about, you know,
(02:30):
what his lifestyle is.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
He's dealt with addiction, he's dealt.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
With, you know, problems with alcohol and other drugs and
everything and what he's kind of settled on what's working
for him right now as he's touring. This the first
time he's ever toured sober.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
But it's California Sober Okay, So he still uses cannabis
and he talks about that. You're familiar at home, but
I'm familiar with California.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, California Sober as much like a California King Bed.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
It's a little bigger, it's.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
A little bigger, nearer though I found out it's Nearrow.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
It's just longer it is.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
But no, California Sober is where you just smoke weed,
you don't drink, you don't do any other substances.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And Yeah, it's good to hear from someone that is
at the top of his game, rocking his ass off,
being able to talk about like, yeah, I lived that
rock and roll lifestyle, but hey, this is kind of
working for me. And I didn't want to go full sober,
but if someone wants to, God bless you, you know,
it's just showing just a different story and aside, and
I like.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
The California and sober because I think it kind of
undoes the idea that people have of we being a gateway,
right you know, yeah, is the gateway out too?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
If it's a gateway, it's got to swing both ways. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
And also, just I commend any artists that decides to
stop using substances because a lot of times, just from
my experience being an artist and things, you worry, Hey,
am I going to lose a step? Is the alcohol
was making me loose enough to do the show?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Is it the.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Pills or whatever that's keeping me up so I could
do the back to back shows?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (04:10):
And so a lot of times people it's such a
crutch and you rely on it because of the uncertainty,
not knowing am.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I going to be able to do it without?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
So yeah, you have to know that your talent is
beyond any state that you're in or any state that
you put yourself in. And I think that could be
scary for artists to step out there like yeah, absolutely,
I commend him. Yeah, No, it's great.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
No, And he touches on that, and I think it's
really important to show that, you know, maybe you're not
a rockster, but there's all these levels of these types
of things and pressures, and it's just cool to hear
someone be like, no, I'm good and yeah, just different
ways to do it.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
It's more than one path to redemption, or it's more
than one path to get out of addiction.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And California sober.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I think for so many people that's not looked at
as being so you're trading one drug for another. Oh,
well you're not really sober, you're not. But I'm able
to function for what I'm doing. It works for me.
And I think that one size fits all thing has
been the thing that's been holding us back the whole time.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I kind of think of it like, I remember that
Tom Brady book came out with like his diet and regiment.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Right, and it was like, what if this was the.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Only way that you could lose weight or be successful?
People read it, we're like, well, fuck this right, I
don't care. You know something with addiction that we see
timetime getting like you're going to fail, and a lot
of people do. And a criminal justice system and kind
of the war that we've created doesn't allow for those
failures to build and to be ultimately a success that
(05:44):
we are able to see because time and time again,
these people that are our amazing stets in their careers,
they're struggling with all these things and if they were
in this box, this would have been an automatic fail.
But they're allowed to work and be human and then
succeed after this, after these barriers are broken for them.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So I think that's just something to really keep in
mind when it comes.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
To what addition is and is it Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So you know, without further ado, let's hear this interview
with Marcus King. Really excited for re able to hear it,
and uh yeah, Mark King and last night at.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Least duck, don't forget the dog. Don't ju't hear the
dog yet?
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Hey that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may
sound smart, we may even make some good points, but
at the end of the day, we're not medical professional Okay,
Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything
we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,
consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Got it, all right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So we're here, Marcus King new albums, mood Swings, Tours,
mood Swings. You're torn right now as we talk. Welcome
to the War on Drugs podcast. And I think first
of all, we got to talk about if you hear
the slobbering and the slapping, that is not me or Marcus,
that is who are.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Really here for? Duck Duck the old boy.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Well, it might be me in some in some instances,
but this is Duck. He's my emotional support lab and uh,
he provides emotional support to everybody on the tour. He'll
be two years old this year, almost three by the
time this comes out of Yeah, but he's just very
handsome and he's a handsome, good boy. He's my best friend.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I don't blame you. I got two back home.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And yeah, I was saying before we were talking, like
this is great, Like I missed the heck out of
him when I when I leave. So yeah, So mood Swings,
I've listened to the album a bunch sometimes, you know,
we got to do research and it's a lot of
articles and videos and you know, on on stuff. But listen,
listen some good Southern rock is never a bad thing.
So I really enjoyed it and love your music. I've
been a fan for quite some time now, so it's
(07:49):
been awesome. So I know, this is the first time
you've toured you know, Sober and kind of a lot
of the writing and things like that. How has that changed,
you know, the way you've toured your music. A lot
of the themes that are in Mood Swings maybe not
as compared to some of the other albums, Like just
kind of talk about that journey a little bit. How
that's changed your your music so much in the touring aspect.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, well, you know, the even all the way back
to the writing portion of the record. Everything kind of
associated with this album and and this release has been
kind of a duality between like sober and you know,
completely like beinge alcoholism, and it's really in line with
(08:33):
like the uh, the upward swings and the downward swings
that are associated with Mood Swings, because that's the whole
record is about. And I kind of wanted with the
secreencing of the album to uh portray like a day
in a life of somebody with would like borderline or
bipolar disorder and kind of give you that you know,
(08:55):
kind of ride that I take every day, especially when
the meds are not in flux. And you know, I
always had to reiterate that I'm California sober. Like even
on like social media, I see people who have their
I mean, people are always going to have their commentary.
People are just real horses asses on social media.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
They know everyone's journey.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No repercussions on there. And people often comment about, you know,
my usage of cannabis products as a sober man, and
you know that really takes me off because I really
view it medicinally. But anyway, touring sober, you know, the
beginning of that journey was really difficult for me. And
I remember my first sober gig. It was in Wichita, Kansas,
(09:41):
and it was you know borol phrase. It was really
sobering experience and I haven't turned back.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's a part of what
you were kind of talking about, like people on social
media and experts and kind of the social stigma around
those types of things. You know, we had Jesse Gould
on our season last year of the War on Drugs
and he was a former military did multiple tours in
Iraq and Afghanistan, and when he went to the VA,
when he was struggling, he was drinking a lot. He
couldn't cope with, like kind of going back through real world.
(10:12):
They gave him a lot of pills and it made
things worse for him. And it's crazy how like society
would look at you almost in a better light in
a lot of ways if it was just a lot
of medications and alcohol rather than things that may be
working better for you. So like everyone's you know, Journey's
kind of that and kind of the struggle and failure
(10:32):
of sobriety and going back and forth.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I think you're exactly right and you feel that with
your album. But yeah, that that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Stigma aspect I wanted to kind of talk about with
that because you're very open about you know, your mental
your mental health, your your drug usage, your alcohol usage,
and kind of going through that was that tough in
and of itself. Kind of opening up more about that
because a guy in his twenties like discussing those types
of things. It's not something we do a but lot, Like,
was that difficult for you as well? And like did
that kind of go with the fluctuations too?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think that's a great question. It was something I
was always really open about with my family and my
friends because it was just, you know, part of my identity.
To me, there's always something I used as a as
a writing partner. And you know, I assumed that the
public knew too. I kind of had this this feeling
(11:23):
it's just like, oh, well, everybody knows. It's kind of
like there's a great quote from Jamie Johnson about who's
another sober pal. He's like, when I grew up, I
thought everybody was from Alabama, because that's kind of the
mindset I had about, you know, just being open about
my mental health struggles and sobriety because my family, we
(11:44):
were open about it. But at any rate, you know,
even now I have to explain, like Goodbye Carolina, it's
not about leaving Greenville. It's about a friend of mine
who committed suicide because he was, you know, in a
really bad place and it didn't feel like he could
speak openly about it. I realized when I started speaking
(12:07):
about it. People would come up and and thank me
for being open about it, which to me, I'm like,
well that's just common sense. We got to talk about
it or nothing gets done. So now I kind of
have to overcompensate because I don't I don't generally talk
a lot, you know, reserves, but I really this is
(12:27):
something passionate about. I like to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, No, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, kind of like discussing a little bit more on
that social stigma and you know, your journey through California
sober and how people's sobriety looks different for each person.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Can you kind of talk a little bit through that
and in your journey?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, well, it is a journey, and that is the
you know, defining word right there. And the whole stigma
is everybody's journey is different, and it's just like when
you're you know, struggling with you know, mental handicaps like
my polar disorder, depression. Everybody's biochemistry is different and that's
(13:14):
why they give you all these different drugs and you
can't really figure out how an SSNR or an MSNR
is going to affect you until about two weeks of
taking it, and then you're like, well, this makes me
feel dull, I feel like a zombie. You try something
else and then you go through this whole program. Is
because everybody's biochemistry is different, right, It's the same way
(13:35):
with sobriety. Like I went to AA and like, you know,
they really frowned upon, like even the usage of like
prescription medication, which I was like, well, I mean I
can't really function without a lot of that, So I
can't really prescribe to that, or you know, the idea
that you need to completely remove yourself from people who
(13:57):
engage in the behaviors that you were really drawn towards,
and I can't really do that.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, you can't do that in any position.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I'm doing that five or six nights a week. I'm
in a barroom or a club. And that's why it's
really great that Stand Together and one million strong. They've
created these sober spaces and they've brought them out to
a lot of our shows and festivals we've played, and
it's great. You know, we had the Mood Swing's mocktail,
but you know, everybody's journey is a little bit different.
(14:26):
And for me, California sobriety has been the most effective
and you know, it's it's something that's of the earth.
It grows on the earth. And I mean, I know
I sound like a real cliche saying all these things,
but you know, I just need my dog. I need
a little bit of my uh you know, herbal medicine,
(14:46):
and I'm pretty happy now.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And yeah, like working in the criminal justice world, we
see how that failure actually like leads you more into
your problems because like one time you fail drug tests
and you're out or something like that, and so it
really harms people. And so do you have any like
experiences that you know, like either yourself in the criminal
just system or anything else where you've seen that where
people actually are struggling trying to get help, and you know,
(15:13):
the things that are in place to try to help
us out just aren't there. Like not treating addiction and
struggle as like a health issue, we've treated kind of
as a criminal justice issue.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
And have you had any shared experience with that?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, yeah, I mean I think that's that's such a
heavy topic and one that's not brought up very often.
But you know, I was kind of in that school
to prison pipeline right as far as people just you know,
administrators and the like kind of categorizing you as a
problem and just kind of putting you on the path
(15:45):
that they think you should be on. And you know,
growing up and being along hair in the South and
smoking pot and all that, and a lot of my
family members and to an extended family, I'd see them
go in and out of pre and in and out
of the system, and a lot of times it would
be because of a failed drug test or you know,
(16:07):
what have you. And I just I just feel like
it shouldn't be a blanketed thing, right, kind of like
what you're saying, I.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wanted to go back a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You were talking about a friend who had committed suicide
and from that though, you found this opportunity. Can you
kind of talk about your foundation, the Curfew Fellowship Foundation
and kind of what you're doing there and where that
came out of.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Sure? Yeah, around like the Winner of twenty seventeen going
into twenty eighteen, that's around the time our friend Matt
Reynolds he committed suicide. And before that we had lost
Jeff Austin, and and not long after that we lost
like Neil Cassol, who was a good friend, played guitar
(16:53):
and we just started to see that there was a
lot of folks in the arts community that you know,
we're STU and we didn't really know it. A lot
of people who were on top of their game, on
top of their craft, they would you know, lose the
battle with depression because they'd get to the point they
were trying to get to and realize that they still felt, yeah,
(17:16):
that horrible loneliness. And that's something that I grapple with,
you know, constantly, is just everything's when everything's going right,
it's sometimes when I feel the lowest, and it's really
it's really hard. And the more I talk about it,
the more I can, you know, persevere and get through it.
Depression is a lot like a cancer, and once it's
(17:37):
in your system, you could be in remission from it,
but you can't ever really fully get rid of it.
I feel like, and you know, my friend Matt lost
that battle. And he was a tour manager, singer, songwriter,
and he was a tour manager for Colonel Bruce Hampton,
who was a real, you know, a wild man, and
(17:58):
he was just part of that Southern music culture and
just a really he was really more of like a
philosopher in a lot of ways, and he just he
just had like a beautiful mind. But he gave Matt
the nickname Curfew. So my friend Charles Hpath and I
started this foundation and his name his honor, and we're
(18:20):
really excited to see what it, you know, develops into.
Right now, it's just it's just providing advocacy and raising
awareness for those in the arts community. I think it's
something like seventy three percent of musicians struggle with some
form of mental health one way or another, and it's
just something that we should be able to speak about
openly because we all write about it and we all
(18:42):
use it as a writing partner. But you know, I
try to make efforts to speak about it without the
usage of metaphor, like songs like Bipolar Love. Me and
my producer Rick Rubin, we just we wanted to really
strip everything away down to the primer and just speak,
you know, completely, matter of factly and no use of metaphor.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Together.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's all resonated with me a lot, actually, like the
idea of like the hotter you're, the hotter you are,
the colder I kind of become and this flip flopping
and just feeling these emotions. Yeah, like the happy When
you're happy, that's when you almost feel the loneliness or
like you almost feel ashamed or embarrassed to be happier
in a good spot.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I feel I get you, Yeah now, I get that.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
See me personally, I kind of kept a small circle.
Anyone that was close to me was either someone I
worked with musically, I just I didn't and I still
have problem with it just trusting people in general. So
my circle has always been really small, and I think
one of the contributors to that is, like, you know,
seeing people getting strung out either on you know, uh,
(19:53):
prescription medication and phone victim to the opioid crisis, and
I'd see that all around me, even in my own
household and extended family. Oftentimes, a lot of these folks
would be completely institutionalized at the young age of like
twenty two, and you know, they'd run out of a
place to stay, so they go hit up the liquor
(20:15):
store and they go in and they liked it in there,
you know, so they completely institutionalized because nobody expected anything
more from them, right, And that always kind of broke
my heart and resonated with me because I felt that
way a lot of the times, you know, and there's
a lot of teachers I'd love to go back and
speak to because they told me, you know, I wouldn't
(20:37):
amount the shit and that I would end up in
prison or dead. And they didn't have any any faith
in me. So why would I have any school spirit?
I'd say probably the majority of the time, I felt
like I was, you know, a burden and anyway, I mean,
(20:59):
I had a couple teachers or administrators who could see
something special in me, and they would encourage my you know,
artistic you know journey, like Miss Boudreaux, my ninth grade
English teacher, tenth grade English teacher, she was always really
sweet to me. But I mean, and Miss Scott was
(21:21):
my administrator in eleventh grade. It was really the only
two that come to mind.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah you know now that yeah, that part of like expectation,
like there was no expectation, frankwins, So who gives a
damn And you might as well just keep going down
that path like it doesn't matter. Yeah, it's like the
devalueing of like your life, Like that's how yeah, that
a lot of people go through.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I had I had a
lot of struggle in grade school because they they have
my sister and I on a on a truancy Like
basically what it was was like a pledge, a written
pledge that we had to sign. And this was when
I was in like eighth grade, and it was it
(22:00):
was again like it was a blanketed law towards like
all students in the household. My sister was truant. She
skipped like eighty one consecutive days, which, yes, that's a problem.
I hadn't missed any days, you know, my dad dropped
me off. I'd go to school, I come home, so
I didn't have any issues with truancy. But because I
was a student in the household, I had to also
(22:21):
fill out this story. So this carried over me like
a dark cloud for my entire you know, academic career,
I guess, however you want to put it. Until I
was in eleventh grade and they were like pressuring me
so much, just like to not be late or you know,
all these other kids would you know, I don't know.
(22:42):
It just felt really like they were really trying.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
To pressure like any Yeah, you're.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Just constantly on probation.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, and that's always great for someone with anxiety and yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It was.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was just yeah, man, I mean I still have like,
you know, panicked dreams about it, and like, you know,
they were trying to put me into like a reform
school and they wanted to shave my head and I
was like, man, I was five minutes late. Yeah for
the bell, I don't really you know, it was really
(23:14):
you know, they were really nasty with me until I
was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna drop out.
And I dropped out of high school. And when I
made the decision to drop out, they said, you're gonna
end up in prison. You know, you're a drug addict.
I was like, I'm not, you know what I mean,
But if you won't see me show my ass, I will.
Then I went out and I did. I showed my
(23:35):
ass for a long time because that's what they expected
of me. Why would I let them down?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
So I think a lot of people go through that,
and we see that in the criminal just system, where
that mark like carries with you and you get a
minor drug conviction or something else and now you can't
get food stamps or you can't get housing. You know,
do you know of anyone took in the music industry,
you know, if you're so in cannabis, like the laws
are different, like potentially you know there's risks with that.
(24:01):
Do you know of anyone yourself, like those types of
run ins doing that and like how that's impacted careers
and other things out in the music instrie or just
bodies of yours.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, I'd say, like, you know, the music community has
always kind of been a safe haven, yeah, for those
who are outside thinkers, and it's always inspiring to see
folks like yourself get invested in and something that we've
always kind of seen to be is an issue, things
(24:32):
like like what you were mentioned trying to give food
stamps or get affordable housing, and I mean it really
is an issue.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
You know, it's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, kind of going back into music a little bit,
like how much of that do you take of?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Like you're not in prison, you're not dead, thank god, you.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
You know, have something like that, like how do you
if someone's not a musician doesn't see that kind of
path of like there's a guitar, there's about you know,
there's microphone or something like that. Like you at ten,
like how do you how do you how do you
get someone to like feel that creativity or stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I mean, there isn't innate nature to it. I see
it like with my nephews, and like, you know, I
feel like as we progress as a culture, you know,
there's more distractions to get you away from this. Like
completely truly analog outlook that I had growing up. That's
all I had. I didn't have any friends or devices
(25:31):
to occupy my time. And you know, we were I
guess what you would call now latchkey kids. You know,
so I was just alone, or I was with my
grandparents and you know, they would just be hanging. You know,
there wasn't much going on, so I just just play
guitar all day. I had a good bit of trauma
(25:51):
that you know, contributed to the creative process as well.
But everybody's got, you know, the ability to channel their
energy and their trauma and all that into a creative outlet.
And that's why I say, I mean, if you could
channel all that pain and strife into a creative outlet,
(26:12):
then you're less likely to go postal.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I feel like, you know, the environment of music for
a lot of people going to festivals and going to
rocksha is like, that's a trigger for them to do
things that they probably shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Like, how do you still enjoy those things?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well? For me, yeah, I mean you're You're absolutely right.
All the things I enjoy tend to be bad for me,
so I try to I try to incorporate healthy activities
into my life, and that could be really challenging in
the line of work that I do. So you know,
eating late night it's no good, so I try to
(26:56):
stop eating at five o'clock. I don't drink anymore, so,
you know, after the gig, I'm like, God, I could
eat a whole pizza. I could drink about eighteen beers,
you know, polish off half a leader of liquor with
my boys, and I have a great time, you know.
But I mean, even even before I quit drinking entirely,
(27:19):
I quit drinking before shows because I feel like I
owe it to my audience and and to myself because
it is such a release. Like playing you know, fucked
up was never something that was rewarding to me. It
was something I did when I was and I was
really good at it, you know, but it was because
I was in a really broken state. But you know
(27:42):
now sometimes it is it is challenging to just feel
like I get off the stage, I'm like, you might
as well just put me in a road case because
I'm not gonna do anything next show. I'm just gonna
go sit on the bus and have my diet coke
and you know, watch a movie. I'm not doing anything crazy.
And you know, I've tried to like go out because
(28:03):
like the temptations not enough to make me break. I've
got a really strong whellpower. That's a blessing and that's
something that's you know, just innate with my family, and
you know, even going out like it's just there's no
desire to do it because you got people clamoring on you,
and you find that your tolerance for for drunk individuals
(28:24):
goes really.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Fun, probably goes down the roof. Yeah, when you're not
the drunk individual too. Yeah, I could see that. How
long you've been married, I've been.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Married going on two years two years now.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
How is that kind of impacted?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Has that kind of helped like having that stability kind
of in your life? Like how how has that kind
of change everything and helped you along the ride or
made it different? How is like your relationship with her
like pouring right now, Like how has that changed, like
when you're calling back, when she's coming on the road
with you or anything else.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
So I met my wife a day after I stop
doing cocaine actually, so I was in you know, some
pretty rough shape, but I was still drinking heavily. And
I was really nervous to meet her because I met her,
you know, I was I was really fucked up at
five in the morning and she had been at my
(29:11):
show and.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Charlotte Marcus just reciting his wedding vows right now, by
the way, Yeah, he just pulled out started going yes.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Laws, the in laws know, you know, my plight. So anyway,
she came to the next show in Raleigh, and she
came back to say hello. And when I met her,
I just what I sell on her was you know,
a young, bright, determined, you know, educated woman who actually
(29:41):
saw something in me. And I felt for the first
time like I wanted to be better not only for myself,
but for for someone else. And that really kind of
pulled me out of this like, uh journey that when
I was on that was really just you know, to
go out and over indulge in all the vices that
(30:05):
I saw a fit, including music, including you know, drugs, women, alcohol,
all of it just over indulgent in every way until
it just killed me before I was even thirty.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That was my goal in Moose Swings, you talk about
I I have something to live for for the first time.
We always try to you know, end on a like
an action item or things to do. One of the
things that you've seen, you know, kind of work not
work in that world and kind of gets you down
the wrong path.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I think community is one of the biggest things that
we have as a resource, as a free resource to us,
and in music is just such a fine way to
bring people together. And that's that's kind of how we
view our shows. And I don't like to stand up
there and just preach it to folks. Like I said,
I don't like to talk very much at all, but
(30:57):
you know, just being vocal and just finding a group
of individuals. I mean, it could be church, it could
be you know, but for me, it's music and just
getting together and and and being in a square and
talking about it all openly, and just the general idea
destigmatizing all of these subjects that we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
What are some of those things that you wish you
kind of had in your social network as you were
growing up and kind of dealing with a lot of
this stuff when teacher was telling you to shut your
damn mouth and you're going nowhere, Like, what do you
wish you had that could to help you out?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, something that I did have A tremendous resource that
I had growing up was the Fine Arts Center in
Greenville and my my instructors there. Steve Watson was my
jazz theory instructor and a tremendous guitarist, and doctor Roy
Floor was the it was the head administrator there all
(31:53):
that time. I don't think principle was the correct term,
but they really saw something in me and they believed
in me. And I was an a student there. You know,
I wasn't top of my class by any means because
everyone there had to work really hard to be there,
and it was really just vocational, vocational school for the
(32:13):
artistic children. And I was able to go there for
two years and the only regret I have about dropping
out of high school was not getting a third year
of education there. But it was something where they, you know,
they encouraged my abilities and you know, they actually cared
(32:33):
for their students and I like molded them into these
you know, artistic beings. It was really moving. It was
the first time I'd ever experienced having school spirit or
seeing students care for their administrators. You know, It's not
something I had ever felt before. So, you know, I
(32:54):
know there's a lot of after school programs. There's the
School of Rock Soil around the country that are great.
You know, there's a lot of programs just like the
Fine Arts Center all over the country. I would just
encourage parents to, uh to find these resources that are
you know, that are free to parents a lot of
times if it's part of the school, you know, uh,
the school district. Just find whatever you can to try
(33:17):
to you know, channel your kids, whether it be like
you know, hyperactive ways or whatever it is, or depression,
Like find ways to channel these things into something artistic
or you know, expressive.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Right, how many times I've seen, either with schools or
the criminal justice system, they say one person told me, hey,
you're pretty funny, you're pretty witty, or your musical talent,
like some guy in prison he's like, now I want
to do something more because they're in a program or
something like that, and a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, we go back to these these academic moments
because that's when we're the most pliable, you know, as individuals,
and just having someone of authority have confidence you and
give you the idea that you're not a burden and
that you're you know, you're out burst, or your your
(34:09):
artistic inclinations and you know the things that you're into
aren't stupid. The sandals you wear don't make you look unkempt,
or your long hair or your tired I shirts. People
encouraging you to be outside of the status quo instead
of telling you that you're an outlier and making you
(34:31):
feel like you're an issue or a burden or a problem,
or being a progressive thinker even you know, just one
or two teachers is all it takes, really.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
True, Marcus, I've I've really appreciated your time here, man.
I know, I know you got chows and everything for
you to take the time out and come out to
talk about.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
This and being some open and honest.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And where can people go to find you? See you
support the foundation anything else like that?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Oh well, you can go to Marcus kingofficial dot com
and you'll find a link for the Curfew Foundation. There
and you can support us that way.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
All right, Curfew Foundation, Marcus King, thank you so much
for being on the War on drugs.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
All right, we are back.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, I thought I did okay on my own.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Thanks. You know, great, you didn't. You didn't let the
dog totally upstage you.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
It's true, a little distracted quite a bit. Yeah, yeah,
so this is gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
But uh, you know, it's just like another story, another
thing of a different path for people. And since I
work in criminal justice policy, all I think I was
thinking about a lot was, man, all these different people
we've talked to, how many of them would have been
seen at some point during their path as a failure
(35:50):
and going back.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
And so even a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Place where you have, you know, a drug court where
you're trying to divert people from the criminal justice system,
you put someone on probation where you say, all right,
this happened. If you get treatment or you go through this,
you know, will help you off. And the second they
have one dirty drug test, the second they kind of falter,
it's back to prison for you. And it's just it's
really hard to kind of you know, hear these stories
(36:13):
and it just shows again like how little we know
about like addiction, how much money we've spent on trying
to treat addiction through this war on drugs, and how
much we've failed, Like have.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
The drugs gotten stronger?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Check out our fenel Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's crazy
and so everything. And you know, I think this is
the first time in the last five six years that
in twenty twenty three the overdose desks were under one
hundred thousand, and.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
It was seen as some rousing success.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And you know, I'm sure there are things going on
that we've seen that have been you know, successful, but
I don't know, I don't know how much of a
you know, Victory.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Lawn were still dying. Can you really count that as.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Su Yes, we still have so far to go.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
And it shows how again our approach this war has
morphed it into just a complete disaster of what actually works.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And what doesn't when it comes to addiction.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, these are things for everyone, and even those people
that may not have those types of just like outstanding
you know, marketable.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Talents like I don't have any of those talents.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
So like it's just not you know, someone just being like, hey,
you're funny, like it's for everyone. It's not just for
the success story of the one in the million.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Yeah, and for somebody who is not making the best grades,
who's in and out of trouble, it may mean a
lot more to them here and that they never heard
it before. Yeah, this isn't this isn't all you are
and you can you can do more if you if
you want.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, and claiming you you said something earlier, like it
doesn't cost that teacher anything to just say that one
little note to someone you know, talk to people. We
can't lose our communication. So many people are lost because
they don't talk. And like that verbal confirmation I think
is so critical sometimes just to hear's some sort of
affirmation that you're not some weirdo isolated person in a
(38:02):
CPA hit.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Just yeah, and it doesn't cost anything.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
But the flip side is, look at the cost that
the punishment and being punitive and beating these people down,
and look at the cost that that costs people. So yeah,
I just think people got to think about the cost
of building somebody up versus the cost of tearing somebody down.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I totally agree. No, and again, thank you so much
Marcus for your time. Thank you Duck.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Next episode, West Coast to the West Coast, West Coast Man,
Los Angeles would be real. Yeah, So I can't wait
for y'all to see that.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Man.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, we have a fun story getting out there and
everything that we can't we tell y'all.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
So yeah, until next time, it's the War on Drugs.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(39:12):
ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether Music
dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at Lava for Good. You can follow Clayton
English on Instagram, NX at Clayton English, and you can
follow Greig Laude on Instagram and
I always like to reiterate that I'm California sober and
people often comment about, you know, my usage of cannabis
products as a sober man, and you know, that really
takes me off because I really view it medicinally.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
But anyway, Lava for Good and Stand Together in Music
Present The War on Drugs Podcast, Season two. This season,
we're diving deeper into the real stories behind the War
on Drugs, It's impact, it's failures, and the people offering.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
A better path forward.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Today on the show, Grammy nominated musician, singer, songwriter, guitarist,
hailed as the next Stevie ray Vaughn and founder of
the Curfew Foundation, a support system for musicians from all
walks of life who are battling challenges with mental health
and addiction. Mister Marcus King, all right, welcome to another
(00:49):
episode of The War on drug Among.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
We back at it, We back added.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Season two is running strong and we lean on our
guests heavy on this season. We always lean on our guests,
but we really lean on him for their stories.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, we got all your comments and reviews from the
less of us.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We understand that's what they said.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's what they say, But you know, what like, it's
not about us. It's true. It's about the issue.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
It's about the people. So you need to hear from.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It if our feeling is going to hurt in the process.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But without us, you wouldn't. You wouldn't have heard these stories.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You might have heard a story.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, don't kill the messenger the messenger exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, I like where your heads. I really do like
where your heads out there, Clayton.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Where we had to day? This one you did solo?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I did solo.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
This one was awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It combines a concert that I got to go to.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
He's performing in DC, Marcus King.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
I wanted to hate on you doing it solo, but
I can't. You took your wife to the concert, went
to the concert you enjoyed.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I couldn't. I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I wouldn't want you to take me to the concert.
I mean, yeah, not with your wife at home. Yeah,
that's a lot more explaining.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it was an interesting time.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was like an old opera theater and then it
was like southern rock play and it was it was
like it was like it was very it was cool
and she brought a dog to the interview, which was awesome. Yeah,
Duck was here and that was amazing. That was the
best part of the whole thing. So stop by in
between he was in between doing like dress rehearsals and
all that, Mike checks and he was able to cop
by and kind of talk to us about, you know,
(02:30):
what his lifestyle is.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
He's dealt with addiction, he's dealt.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
With, you know, problems with alcohol and other drugs and
everything and what he's kind of settled on what's working
for him right now as he's touring. This the first
time he's ever toured sober.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
But it's California Sober Okay, So he still uses cannabis
and he talks about that. You're familiar at home, but
I'm familiar with California.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, California Sober as much like a California King Bed.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
It's a little bigger, it's.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
A little bigger, nearer though I found out it's Nearrow.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
It's just longer it is.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
But no, California Sober is where you just smoke weed,
you don't drink, you don't do any other substances.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And Yeah, it's good to hear from someone that is
at the top of his game, rocking his ass off,
being able to talk about like, yeah, I lived that
rock and roll lifestyle, but hey, this is kind of
working for me. And I didn't want to go full sober,
but if someone wants to, God bless you, you know,
it's just showing just a different story and aside, and
I like.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
The California and sober because I think it kind of
undoes the idea that people have of we being a gateway,
right you know, yeah, is the gateway out too?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
If it's a gateway, it's got to swing both ways. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
And also, just I commend any artists that decides to
stop using substances because a lot of times, just from
my experience being an artist and things, you worry, Hey,
am I going to lose a step? Is the alcohol
was making me loose enough to do the show?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Is it the.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Pills or whatever that's keeping me up so I could
do the back to back shows?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (04:10):
And so a lot of times people it's such a
crutch and you rely on it because of the uncertainty,
not knowing am.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
I going to be able to do it without?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
So yeah, you have to know that your talent is
beyond any state that you're in or any state that
you put yourself in. And I think that could be
scary for artists to step out there like yeah, absolutely,
I commend him. Yeah, No, it's great.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
No, And he touches on that, and I think it's
really important to show that, you know, maybe you're not
a rockster, but there's all these levels of these types
of things and pressures, and it's just cool to hear
someone be like, no, I'm good and yeah, just different
ways to do it.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
It's more than one path to redemption, or it's more
than one path to get out of addiction.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And California sober.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I think for so many people that's not looked at
as being so you're trading one drug for another. Oh,
well you're not really sober, you're not. But I'm able
to function for what I'm doing. It works for me.
And I think that one size fits all thing has
been the thing that's been holding us back the whole time.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I kind of think of it like, I remember that
Tom Brady book came out with like his diet and regiment.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Right, and it was like, what if this was the.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Only way that you could lose weight or be successful?
People read it, we're like, well, fuck this right, I
don't care. You know something with addiction that we see
timetime getting like you're going to fail, and a lot
of people do. And a criminal justice system and kind
of the war that we've created doesn't allow for those
failures to build and to be ultimately a success that
(05:44):
we are able to see because time and time again,
these people that are our amazing stets in their careers,
they're struggling with all these things and if they were
in this box, this would have been an automatic fail.
But they're allowed to work and be human and then
succeed after this, after these barriers are broken for them.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So I think that's just something to really keep in
mind when it comes.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
To what addition is and is it Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So you know, without further ado, let's hear this interview
with Marcus King. Really excited for re able to hear it,
and uh yeah, Mark King and last night at.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Least duck, don't forget the dog. Don't ju't hear the
dog yet?
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Hey that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may
sound smart, we may even make some good points, but
at the end of the day, we're not medical professional Okay,
Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything
we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,
consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Got it, all right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So we're here, Marcus King new albums, mood Swings, Tours,
mood Swings. You're torn right now as we talk. Welcome
to the War on Drugs podcast. And I think first
of all, we got to talk about if you hear
the slobbering and the slapping, that is not me or Marcus,
that is who are.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Really here for? Duck Duck the old boy.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Well, it might be me in some in some instances,
but this is Duck. He's my emotional support lab and uh,
he provides emotional support to everybody on the tour. He'll
be two years old this year, almost three by the
time this comes out of Yeah, but he's just very
handsome and he's a handsome, good boy. He's my best friend.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I don't blame you. I got two back home.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And yeah, I was saying before we were talking, like
this is great, Like I missed the heck out of
him when I when I leave. So yeah, So mood Swings,
I've listened to the album a bunch sometimes, you know,
we got to do research and it's a lot of
articles and videos and you know, on on stuff. But listen,
listen some good Southern rock is never a bad thing.
So I really enjoyed it and love your music. I've
been a fan for quite some time now, so it's
(07:49):
been awesome. So I know, this is the first time
you've toured you know, Sober and kind of a lot
of the writing and things like that. How has that changed,
you know, the way you've toured your music. A lot
of the themes that are in Mood Swings maybe not
as compared to some of the other albums, Like just
kind of talk about that journey a little bit. How
that's changed your your music so much in the touring aspect.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, well, you know, the even all the way back
to the writing portion of the record. Everything kind of
associated with this album and and this release has been
kind of a duality between like sober and you know,
completely like beinge alcoholism, and it's really in line with
(08:33):
like the uh, the upward swings and the downward swings
that are associated with Mood Swings, because that's the whole
record is about. And I kind of wanted with the
secreencing of the album to uh portray like a day
in a life of somebody with would like borderline or
bipolar disorder and kind of give you that you know,
(08:55):
kind of ride that I take every day, especially when
the meds are not in flux. And you know, I
always had to reiterate that I'm California sober. Like even
on like social media, I see people who have their
I mean, people are always going to have their commentary.
People are just real horses asses on social media.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
They know everyone's journey.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No repercussions on there. And people often comment about, you know,
my usage of cannabis products as a sober man, and
you know that really takes me off because I really
view it medicinally. But anyway, touring sober, you know, the
beginning of that journey was really difficult for me. And
I remember my first sober gig. It was in Wichita, Kansas,
(09:41):
and it was you know borol phrase. It was really
sobering experience and I haven't turned back.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's a part of what
you were kind of talking about, like people on social
media and experts and kind of the social stigma around
those types of things. You know, we had Jesse Gould
on our season last year of the War on Drugs
and he was a former military did multiple tours in
Iraq and Afghanistan, and when he went to the VA,
when he was struggling, he was drinking a lot. He
couldn't cope with, like kind of going back through real world.
(10:12):
They gave him a lot of pills and it made
things worse for him. And it's crazy how like society
would look at you almost in a better light in
a lot of ways if it was just a lot
of medications and alcohol rather than things that may be
working better for you. So like everyone's you know, Journey's
kind of that and kind of the struggle and failure
(10:32):
of sobriety and going back and forth.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I think you're exactly right and you feel that with
your album. But yeah, that that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Stigma aspect I wanted to kind of talk about with
that because you're very open about you know, your mental
your mental health, your your drug usage, your alcohol usage,
and kind of going through that was that tough in
and of itself. Kind of opening up more about that
because a guy in his twenties like discussing those types
of things. It's not something we do a but lot, Like,
was that difficult for you as well? And like did
that kind of go with the fluctuations too?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think that's a great question. It was something I
was always really open about with my family and my
friends because it was just, you know, part of my identity.
To me, there's always something I used as a as
a writing partner. And you know, I assumed that the
public knew too. I kind of had this this feeling
(11:23):
it's just like, oh, well, everybody knows. It's kind of
like there's a great quote from Jamie Johnson about who's
another sober pal. He's like, when I grew up, I
thought everybody was from Alabama, because that's kind of the
mindset I had about, you know, just being open about
my mental health struggles and sobriety because my family, we
(11:44):
were open about it. But at any rate, you know,
even now I have to explain, like Goodbye Carolina, it's
not about leaving Greenville. It's about a friend of mine
who committed suicide because he was, you know, in a
really bad place and it didn't feel like he could
speak openly about it. I realized when I started speaking
(12:07):
about it. People would come up and and thank me
for being open about it, which to me, I'm like,
well that's just common sense. We got to talk about
it or nothing gets done. So now I kind of
have to overcompensate because I don't I don't generally talk
a lot, you know, reserves, but I really this is
(12:27):
something passionate about. I like to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, No, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, kind of like discussing a little bit more on
that social stigma and you know, your journey through California
sober and how people's sobriety looks different for each person.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Can you kind of talk a little bit through that
and in your journey?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, well, it is a journey, and that is the
you know, defining word right there. And the whole stigma
is everybody's journey is different, and it's just like when
you're you know, struggling with you know, mental handicaps like
my polar disorder, depression. Everybody's biochemistry is different and that's
(13:14):
why they give you all these different drugs and you
can't really figure out how an SSNR or an MSNR
is going to affect you until about two weeks of
taking it, and then you're like, well, this makes me
feel dull, I feel like a zombie. You try something
else and then you go through this whole program. Is
because everybody's biochemistry is different, right, It's the same way
(13:35):
with sobriety. Like I went to AA and like, you know,
they really frowned upon, like even the usage of like
prescription medication, which I was like, well, I mean I
can't really function without a lot of that, So I
can't really prescribe to that, or you know, the idea
that you need to completely remove yourself from people who
(13:57):
engage in the behaviors that you were really drawn towards,
and I can't really do that.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, you can't do that in any position.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I'm doing that five or six nights a week. I'm
in a barroom or a club. And that's why it's
really great that Stand Together and one million strong. They've
created these sober spaces and they've brought them out to
a lot of our shows and festivals we've played, and
it's great. You know, we had the Mood Swing's mocktail,
but you know, everybody's journey is a little bit different.
(14:26):
And for me, California sobriety has been the most effective
and you know, it's it's something that's of the earth.
It grows on the earth. And I mean, I know
I sound like a real cliche saying all these things,
but you know, I just need my dog. I need
a little bit of my uh you know, herbal medicine,
(14:46):
and I'm pretty happy now.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And yeah, like working in the criminal justice world, we
see how that failure actually like leads you more into
your problems because like one time you fail drug tests
and you're out or something like that, and so it
really harms people. And so do you have any like
experiences that you know, like either yourself in the criminal
just system or anything else where you've seen that where
people actually are struggling trying to get help, and you know,
(15:13):
the things that are in place to try to help
us out just aren't there. Like not treating addiction and
struggle as like a health issue, we've treated kind of
as a criminal justice issue.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
And have you had any shared experience with that?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, yeah, I mean I think that's that's such a
heavy topic and one that's not brought up very often.
But you know, I was kind of in that school
to prison pipeline right as far as people just you know,
administrators and the like kind of categorizing you as a
problem and just kind of putting you on the path
(15:45):
that they think you should be on. And you know,
growing up and being along hair in the South and
smoking pot and all that, and a lot of my
family members and to an extended family, I'd see them
go in and out of pre and in and out
of the system, and a lot of times it would
be because of a failed drug test or you know,
(16:07):
what have you. And I just I just feel like
it shouldn't be a blanketed thing, right, kind of like
what you're saying, I.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Wanted to go back a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You were talking about a friend who had committed suicide
and from that though, you found this opportunity. Can you
kind of talk about your foundation, the Curfew Fellowship Foundation
and kind of what you're doing there and where that
came out of.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Sure? Yeah, around like the Winner of twenty seventeen going
into twenty eighteen, that's around the time our friend Matt
Reynolds he committed suicide. And before that we had lost
Jeff Austin, and and not long after that we lost
like Neil Cassol, who was a good friend, played guitar
(16:53):
and we just started to see that there was a
lot of folks in the arts community that you know,
we're STU and we didn't really know it. A lot
of people who were on top of their game, on
top of their craft, they would you know, lose the
battle with depression because they'd get to the point they
were trying to get to and realize that they still felt, yeah,
(17:16):
that horrible loneliness. And that's something that I grapple with,
you know, constantly, is just everything's when everything's going right,
it's sometimes when I feel the lowest, and it's really
it's really hard. And the more I talk about it,
the more I can, you know, persevere and get through it.
Depression is a lot like a cancer, and once it's
(17:37):
in your system, you could be in remission from it,
but you can't ever really fully get rid of it.
I feel like, and you know, my friend Matt lost
that battle. And he was a tour manager, singer, songwriter,
and he was a tour manager for Colonel Bruce Hampton,
who was a real, you know, a wild man, and
(17:58):
he was just part of that Southern music culture and
just a really he was really more of like a
philosopher in a lot of ways, and he just he
just had like a beautiful mind. But he gave Matt
the nickname Curfew. So my friend Charles Hpath and I
started this foundation and his name his honor, and we're
(18:20):
really excited to see what it, you know, develops into.
Right now, it's just it's just providing advocacy and raising
awareness for those in the arts community. I think it's
something like seventy three percent of musicians struggle with some
form of mental health one way or another, and it's
just something that we should be able to speak about
openly because we all write about it and we all
(18:42):
use it as a writing partner. But you know, I
try to make efforts to speak about it without the
usage of metaphor, like songs like Bipolar Love. Me and
my producer Rick Rubin, we just we wanted to really
strip everything away down to the primer and just speak,
you know, completely, matter of factly and no use of metaphor.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Together.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's all resonated with me a lot, actually, like the
idea of like the hotter you're, the hotter you are,
the colder I kind of become and this flip flopping
and just feeling these emotions. Yeah, like the happy When
you're happy, that's when you almost feel the loneliness or
like you almost feel ashamed or embarrassed to be happier
in a good spot.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I feel I get you, Yeah now, I get that.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
See me personally, I kind of kept a small circle.
Anyone that was close to me was either someone I
worked with musically, I just I didn't and I still
have problem with it just trusting people in general. So
my circle has always been really small, and I think
one of the contributors to that is, like, you know,
seeing people getting strung out either on you know, uh,
(19:53):
prescription medication and phone victim to the opioid crisis, and
I'd see that all around me, even in my own
household and extended family. Oftentimes, a lot of these folks
would be completely institutionalized at the young age of like
twenty two, and you know, they'd run out of a
place to stay, so they go hit up the liquor
(20:15):
store and they go in and they liked it in there,
you know, so they completely institutionalized because nobody expected anything
more from them, right, And that always kind of broke
my heart and resonated with me because I felt that
way a lot of the times, you know, and there's
a lot of teachers I'd love to go back and
speak to because they told me, you know, I wouldn't
(20:37):
amount the shit and that I would end up in
prison or dead. And they didn't have any any faith
in me. So why would I have any school spirit?
I'd say probably the majority of the time, I felt
like I was, you know, a burden and anyway, I mean,
(20:59):
I had a couple teachers or administrators who could see
something special in me, and they would encourage my you know,
artistic you know journey, like Miss Boudreaux, my ninth grade
English teacher, tenth grade English teacher, she was always really
sweet to me. But I mean, and Miss Scott was
(21:21):
my administrator in eleventh grade. It was really the only
two that come to mind.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah you know now that yeah, that part of like expectation,
like there was no expectation, frankwins, So who gives a
damn And you might as well just keep going down
that path like it doesn't matter. Yeah, it's like the
devalueing of like your life, Like that's how yeah, that
a lot of people go through.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I had I had a
lot of struggle in grade school because they they have
my sister and I on a on a truancy Like
basically what it was was like a pledge, a written
pledge that we had to sign. And this was when
I was in like eighth grade, and it was it
(22:00):
was again like it was a blanketed law towards like
all students in the household. My sister was truant. She
skipped like eighty one consecutive days, which, yes, that's a problem.
I hadn't missed any days, you know, my dad dropped
me off. I'd go to school, I come home, so
I didn't have any issues with truancy. But because I
was a student in the household, I had to also
(22:21):
fill out this story. So this carried over me like
a dark cloud for my entire you know, academic career,
I guess, however you want to put it. Until I
was in eleventh grade and they were like pressuring me
so much, just like to not be late or you know,
all these other kids would you know, I don't know.
(22:42):
It just felt really like they were really trying.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
To pressure like any Yeah, you're.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Just constantly on probation.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, and that's always great for someone with anxiety and yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It was.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was just yeah, man, I mean I still have like,
you know, panicked dreams about it, and like, you know,
they were trying to put me into like a reform
school and they wanted to shave my head and I
was like, man, I was five minutes late. Yeah for
the bell, I don't really you know, it was really
(23:14):
you know, they were really nasty with me until I
was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna drop out.
And I dropped out of high school. And when I
made the decision to drop out, they said, you're gonna
end up in prison. You know, you're a drug addict.
I was like, I'm not, you know what I mean,
But if you won't see me show my ass, I will.
Then I went out and I did. I showed my
(23:35):
ass for a long time because that's what they expected
of me. Why would I let them down?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
So I think a lot of people go through that,
and we see that in the criminal just system, where
that mark like carries with you and you get a
minor drug conviction or something else and now you can't
get food stamps or you can't get housing. You know,
do you know of anyone took in the music industry,
you know, if you're so in cannabis, like the laws
are different, like potentially you know there's risks with that.
(24:01):
Do you know of anyone yourself, like those types of
run ins doing that and like how that's impacted careers
and other things out in the music instrie or just
bodies of yours.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, I'd say, like, you know, the music community has
always kind of been a safe haven, yeah, for those
who are outside thinkers, and it's always inspiring to see
folks like yourself get invested in and something that we've
always kind of seen to be is an issue, things
(24:32):
like like what you were mentioned trying to give food
stamps or get affordable housing, and I mean it really
is an issue.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
You know, it's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, kind of going back into music a little bit,
like how much of that do you take of?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Like you're not in prison, you're not dead, thank god, you.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
You know, have something like that, like how do you
if someone's not a musician doesn't see that kind of
path of like there's a guitar, there's about you know,
there's microphone or something like that. Like you at ten,
like how do you how do you how do you
get someone to like feel that creativity or stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I mean, there isn't innate nature to it. I see
it like with my nephews, and like, you know, I
feel like as we progress as a culture, you know,
there's more distractions to get you away from this. Like
completely truly analog outlook that I had growing up. That's
all I had. I didn't have any friends or devices
(25:31):
to occupy my time. And you know, we were I
guess what you would call now latchkey kids. You know,
so I was just alone, or I was with my
grandparents and you know, they would just be hanging. You know,
there wasn't much going on, so I just just play
guitar all day. I had a good bit of trauma
(25:51):
that you know, contributed to the creative process as well.
But everybody's got, you know, the ability to channel their
energy and their trauma and all that into a creative outlet.
And that's why I say, I mean, if you could
channel all that pain and strife into a creative outlet,
(26:12):
then you're less likely to go postal.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I feel like, you know, the environment of music for
a lot of people going to festivals and going to
rocksha is like, that's a trigger for them to do
things that they probably shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Like, how do you still enjoy those things?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well? For me, yeah, I mean you're You're absolutely right.
All the things I enjoy tend to be bad for me,
so I try to I try to incorporate healthy activities
into my life, and that could be really challenging in
the line of work that I do. So you know,
eating late night it's no good, so I try to
(26:56):
stop eating at five o'clock. I don't drink anymore, so,
you know, after the gig, I'm like, God, I could
eat a whole pizza. I could drink about eighteen beers,
you know, polish off half a leader of liquor with
my boys, and I have a great time, you know.
But I mean, even even before I quit drinking entirely,
(27:19):
I quit drinking before shows because I feel like I
owe it to my audience and and to myself because
it is such a release. Like playing you know, fucked
up was never something that was rewarding to me. It
was something I did when I was and I was
really good at it, you know, but it was because
I was in a really broken state. But you know
(27:42):
now sometimes it is it is challenging to just feel
like I get off the stage, I'm like, you might
as well just put me in a road case because
I'm not gonna do anything next show. I'm just gonna
go sit on the bus and have my diet coke
and you know, watch a movie. I'm not doing anything crazy.
And you know, I've tried to like go out because
(28:03):
like the temptations not enough to make me break. I've
got a really strong whellpower. That's a blessing and that's
something that's you know, just innate with my family, and
you know, even going out like it's just there's no
desire to do it because you got people clamoring on you,
and you find that your tolerance for for drunk individuals
(28:24):
goes really.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Fun, probably goes down the roof. Yeah, when you're not
the drunk individual too. Yeah, I could see that. How
long you've been married, I've been.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Married going on two years two years now.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
How is that kind of impacted?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Has that kind of helped like having that stability kind
of in your life? Like how how has that kind
of change everything and helped you along the ride or
made it different? How is like your relationship with her
like pouring right now, Like how has that changed, like
when you're calling back, when she's coming on the road
with you or anything else.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
So I met my wife a day after I stop
doing cocaine actually, so I was in you know, some
pretty rough shape, but I was still drinking heavily. And
I was really nervous to meet her because I met her,
you know, I was I was really fucked up at
five in the morning and she had been at my
(29:11):
show and.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Charlotte Marcus just reciting his wedding vows right now, by
the way, Yeah, he just pulled out started going yes.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Laws, the in laws know, you know, my plight. So anyway,
she came to the next show in Raleigh, and she
came back to say hello. And when I met her,
I just what I sell on her was you know,
a young, bright, determined, you know, educated woman who actually
(29:41):
saw something in me. And I felt for the first
time like I wanted to be better not only for myself,
but for for someone else. And that really kind of
pulled me out of this like, uh journey that when
I was on that was really just you know, to
go out and over indulge in all the vices that
(30:05):
I saw a fit, including music, including you know, drugs, women, alcohol,
all of it just over indulgent in every way until
it just killed me before I was even thirty.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That was my goal in Moose Swings, you talk about
I I have something to live for for the first time.
We always try to you know, end on a like
an action item or things to do. One of the
things that you've seen, you know, kind of work not
work in that world and kind of gets you down
the wrong path.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I think community is one of the biggest things that
we have as a resource, as a free resource to us,
and in music is just such a fine way to
bring people together. And that's that's kind of how we
view our shows. And I don't like to stand up
there and just preach it to folks. Like I said,
I don't like to talk very much at all, but
(30:57):
you know, just being vocal and just finding a group
of individuals. I mean, it could be church, it could
be you know, but for me, it's music and just
getting together and and and being in a square and
talking about it all openly, and just the general idea
destigmatizing all of these subjects that we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
What are some of those things that you wish you
kind of had in your social network as you were
growing up and kind of dealing with a lot of
this stuff when teacher was telling you to shut your
damn mouth and you're going nowhere, Like, what do you
wish you had that could to help you out?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, something that I did have A tremendous resource that
I had growing up was the Fine Arts Center in
Greenville and my my instructors there. Steve Watson was my
jazz theory instructor and a tremendous guitarist, and doctor Roy
Floor was the it was the head administrator there all
(31:53):
that time. I don't think principle was the correct term,
but they really saw something in me and they believed
in me. And I was an a student there. You know,
I wasn't top of my class by any means because
everyone there had to work really hard to be there,
and it was really just vocational, vocational school for the
(32:13):
artistic children. And I was able to go there for
two years and the only regret I have about dropping
out of high school was not getting a third year
of education there. But it was something where they, you know,
they encouraged my abilities and you know, they actually cared
(32:33):
for their students and I like molded them into these
you know, artistic beings. It was really moving. It was
the first time I'd ever experienced having school spirit or
seeing students care for their administrators. You know, It's not
something I had ever felt before. So, you know, I
(32:54):
know there's a lot of after school programs. There's the
School of Rock Soil around the country that are great.
You know, there's a lot of programs just like the
Fine Arts Center all over the country. I would just
encourage parents to, uh to find these resources that are
you know, that are free to parents a lot of
times if it's part of the school, you know, uh,
the school district. Just find whatever you can to try
(33:17):
to you know, channel your kids, whether it be like
you know, hyperactive ways or whatever it is, or depression,
Like find ways to channel these things into something artistic
or you know, expressive.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Right, how many times I've seen, either with schools or
the criminal justice system, they say one person told me, hey,
you're pretty funny, you're pretty witty, or your musical talent,
like some guy in prison he's like, now I want
to do something more because they're in a program or
something like that, and a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, we go back to these these academic moments
because that's when we're the most pliable, you know, as individuals,
and just having someone of authority have confidence you and
give you the idea that you're not a burden and
that you're you know, you're out burst, or your your
(34:09):
artistic inclinations and you know the things that you're into
aren't stupid. The sandals you wear don't make you look unkempt,
or your long hair or your tired I shirts. People
encouraging you to be outside of the status quo instead
of telling you that you're an outlier and making you
(34:31):
feel like you're an issue or a burden or a problem,
or being a progressive thinker even you know, just one
or two teachers is all it takes, really.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
True, Marcus, I've I've really appreciated your time here, man.
I know, I know you got chows and everything for
you to take the time out and come out to
talk about.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
This and being some open and honest.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And where can people go to find you? See you
support the foundation anything else like that?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Oh well, you can go to Marcus kingofficial dot com
and you'll find a link for the Curfew Foundation. There
and you can support us that way.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
All right, Curfew Foundation, Marcus King, thank you so much
for being on the War on drugs.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
All right, we are back.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, I thought I did okay on my own.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Thanks. You know, great, you didn't. You didn't let the
dog totally upstage you.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
It's true, a little distracted quite a bit. Yeah, yeah,
so this is gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
But uh, you know, it's just like another story, another
thing of a different path for people. And since I
work in criminal justice policy, all I think I was
thinking about a lot was, man, all these different people
we've talked to, how many of them would have been
seen at some point during their path as a failure
(35:50):
and going back.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
And so even a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Place where you have, you know, a drug court where
you're trying to divert people from the criminal justice system,
you put someone on probation where you say, all right,
this happened. If you get treatment or you go through this,
you know, will help you off. And the second they
have one dirty drug test, the second they kind of falter,
it's back to prison for you. And it's just it's
really hard to kind of you know, hear these stories
(36:13):
and it just shows again like how little we know
about like addiction, how much money we've spent on trying
to treat addiction through this war on drugs, and how
much we've failed, Like have.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
The drugs gotten stronger?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Check out our fenel Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's crazy
and so everything. And you know, I think this is
the first time in the last five six years that
in twenty twenty three the overdose desks were under one
hundred thousand, and.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
It was seen as some rousing success.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And you know, I'm sure there are things going on
that we've seen that have been you know, successful, but
I don't know, I don't know how much of a
you know, Victory.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Lawn were still dying. Can you really count that as.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Su Yes, we still have so far to go.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
And it shows how again our approach this war has
morphed it into just a complete disaster of what actually works.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And what doesn't when it comes to addiction.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, these are things for everyone, and even those people
that may not have those types of just like outstanding
you know, marketable.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Talents like I don't have any of those talents.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
So like it's just not you know, someone just being like, hey,
you're funny, like it's for everyone. It's not just for
the success story of the one in the million.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Yeah, and for somebody who is not making the best grades,
who's in and out of trouble, it may mean a
lot more to them here and that they never heard
it before. Yeah, this isn't this isn't all you are
and you can you can do more if you if
you want.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, and claiming you you said something earlier, like it
doesn't cost that teacher anything to just say that one
little note to someone you know, talk to people. We
can't lose our communication. So many people are lost because
they don't talk. And like that verbal confirmation I think
is so critical sometimes just to hear's some sort of
affirmation that you're not some weirdo isolated person in a
(38:02):
CPA hit.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Just yeah, and it doesn't cost anything.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
But the flip side is, look at the cost that
the punishment and being punitive and beating these people down,
and look at the cost that that costs people. So yeah,
I just think people got to think about the cost
of building somebody up versus the cost of tearing somebody down.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I totally agree. No, and again, thank you so much
Marcus for your time. Thank you Duck.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Next episode, West Coast to the West Coast, West Coast Man,
Los Angeles would be real. Yeah, So I can't wait
for y'all to see that.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Man.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, we have a fun story getting out there and
everything that we can't we tell y'all.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
So yeah, until next time, it's the War on Drugs.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
(39:12):
ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether Music
dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at Lava for Good. You can follow Clayton
English on Instagram, NX at Clayton English, and you can
follow Greig Laude on Instagram and
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