Legacy Starts Now with Tiffany Graddick

Harvard Law grad. Entertainment lawyer. Advocate for the underdog. Tiffany Graddick’s path wasn’t handed to her—it was built through cold calls, career pivots, and financial trial and error. Rodney and Travis sit down with Tiffany to talk about choosing joy over golden handcuffs, the lessons she learned from debt, and why real wealth means freedom, not flash.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, I'm Rodney Williams, co founder of The Wealth Break,
and let's get real for a second. Ever felt like
real wealth building strategies are locked behind closed doors, only
reserved for the people with special connections. Trust me, you're
not wrong, but we're changing all of that right now.
The Wealth Break isn't just another podcast. It's your all

(00:22):
access past the genuine wealth building knowledge.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
No gatekeeping, no confusion jargon, just.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Real talk, powerful strategies, and transparent conversations designed for people
like us.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Because building wealth shouldn't feel exclusive.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
If you're loving what you're handing today, just wait until
you check us out at the wealthbreak dot com, where
you'll get bonus content, in depth expert takes in a
community of knowledge committed to leveling up. Ready to break
the cycle, Your path to real wealth starts now, visit
wealthbreak dot com and let's get it.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Welcome to the Wealth Break.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
This is where we unlock stories of financial success, pushing,
breaking down odds, being yourself and and doing it in
a way which we hope closes the wealth gap. Today's
episode is all about career pivots, taking bold leaps, choosing happiness,

(01:36):
but also what does wealth mean to you. You know,
as we think about all of the things that we
may have done, the biggest thing we did was take
a pivot or changed our career. How did you do it?
You did it aggressively. I felt like you had a
review at work and he was like, you know what,

(01:57):
I'm out.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I mean, it was it was really it felt aggressively, right,
But I think that it was really two years. Remember
how much we used to talk about am I really
going to do it?

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Are we really going to do it? I'm going to
do the setup. We literally were working on solo funds
for two years. Right, it needs someone to go take it, right,
it's just an idea on the wall.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
So we were waiting on Travis.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, I mean we also thought about, well, my idea was,
let's just let somebody else be the CEO. Like I
didn't want to leave what I was doing, right, It
felt comfortable, like I saw the trajectory. It's like I
know where like if I keep doing this and I'm hungry,
I can figure this out and like I will be
in a really good place later. So I didn't really

(02:42):
want to derail myself from that, right, Like you know,
coming from where we come from, our parents sacrificed to
get us to a certain point, and then taking a
risk when it feels like like you're on stable ground,
like the foundation to solid that's a tough that's a
tough hill to swallow, to even go tell your parents, like, hey,

(03:02):
you know, I know you paid for college, I know
you're happy that I have this job. I know you're
bragging to your friends. I'm going to stop all of
this and I'm going to go do something that sounds
really really hard to them. And that's a conversation I
didn't really want to have, right. I didn't want to
have it with my parents, I didn't want to have
it with my wife. And I think it was important
for me though, to realize that reward doesn't come without risk,

(03:27):
Like there's no you can't just be comfortable forever, right,
you can't just I'm going to just do this for
the next thirty years.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
We don't live in that type of world.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Like my father worked at General Motors for thirty eight years,
Like those days are over right, So, like you look
at most people our age, they're on either career two, three, four,
they're on.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Job five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
And it was important for me to take that risk
because the way that I wanted to have an impact
on the world, it wasn't going to happen there. And
that impact should help a lot of people also should
help me.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
And that's what it took for me. You know, I
used to think my risk tolerance is way high. It's
actually not.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's more calculated.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's different, it's definitely different, but it's just, you know,
because I think, you know, when I worked and leaving
the first time, it was hard. I didn't tell my
mom and I didn't have a family or wife that
I had to communicate, which made me feel like I
could do it now, to be honest, So I was
calculating because I think if I had a wife or
some other things to think about, I think it would

(04:30):
have slowed me down. What others saw as like, oh
my god, he's taking a big risk. In my mind,
I was like, it's just me, you know what I mean.
So I think I had a I could take greater risk.
And I think the message to anyone out there is
that you can take greater risks when you are younger.
This is when you should be the boldest and your
ideas and your pivots and your career choices before you

(04:54):
have the burden of bills and family. I just think
that's when you probably can most take it.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, but no matter when you take it, you still
have to be calculated, right, And I think at the
end of the day, like we both had a level
of foundation where it's like, what's the worst that could happen? Right,
the worst that could happen. I have to take this
risk is we go back to work, Right, you go
back to work at you know, in the industry that
you were in, and I go back to working in
the industry that I was in, and we'll be fine.

(05:19):
And I think people have to get comfortable with that
fact as well, like maybe it doesn't work, but what's
the worst that could happen? Like, it'll feel much better
in hindsight knowing you tried and it didn't work, and
you still figured it out, you still landed okay, or
it did work, and then you have this exponential growth

(05:40):
as an individual, and then the impact that you want
to have on the world you start to see come
to fruition, Like those are the things that are exciting.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
So let's talk about the code switch, and we're going
to talk about what does happen. And this happens regardless
the pressure.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
The pressure that happens regardless, because when you pivot or
you change means you basically are going from what is
easy to something like harder.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
It doesn't matter like career changes.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Entrepreneurship, you have decided to no longer do what's easy,
and you have then put a bullseye of pressure and burden.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
How do you handle that? Oh Man?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
In my younger years, I think it was partly why
I may have drank. I'm not a I'm only a
social drinker, but oh I needed my social time and
it was my escape from the pressure and the harshness
of what I was doing. And I would tell you

(06:40):
that I felt like I had to win in things
because I was not winning in the office, like so
as soon as I would go outside, I was like,
I gotta win.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's like Denzel, I'm leaving here with something nah for sure.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
And I think that's that's that's the scariest slope sometimes
as an entrepreneur's you kind of you get in this
point where it's like you're used to winning, right, like
you've kind of been winning all your life, and then
you go into this new thing and it's like you're
taking L after L and you're like, man, like, this
is what life's about to be like. And then you
got to figure out how to get comfortable with not
winning and not getting the accolades and not winning the

(07:16):
awards that you might have been winning at the office.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
And now it's like I'm at the bottom of the
total pole.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
And but I think that what was most important for
me is that as you know, like my network of
friends has grown, but my core group has remained the
same and really consistent. And what I'm most proud of of,
like our friends, is that we've continued to challenge each
other in order to do more right. So like as

(07:43):
we've elevated ourselves, they're coming along with us. And that
consistency I think is really important because like I needed
an outlet when you have that pressure, because people from
the outside looking in will see you, they expect you
to show up a certain way, they expect you to
be effect you know, you want to have this kind
of like persona that everything is great. You know, people

(08:05):
ask you how you're doing, no matter how terrible it is,
you always say I'm good. I'm like I'm all right.
But like being able to be vulnerable with your friends
is like really really important. And also you know, doing
that with your friend, right, like building a business alongside
someone who understands what you're going through, it makes it
a lot less lonely.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
It does. That's what I think. You know, it's a
competitive advantage.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I mean, if you are going to do something and pivot,
if you can do it with someone else, if you
can have a network, it can be extremely helpful. I think,
you know, as I gotten older, also like accepting the L.
The moment you accept the L, you can actually go
to resolve it or solution on it versus you fighting

(08:50):
the L.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Like, I think that's one of the biggest things that
I learned that I was fighting the L versus just
moving on.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
The L happened, it's gone.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, And when you fight the L too long, right,
like you're blocking your progress somewhere else, Like you're just
it's drowning you.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
The L is drowning.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
You're trying to hold on and be like, no, I
didn't lose, And what's super competitive, So it's like I
didn't lose. I didn't lose, But like, man, you gotta
like let this one go, so you can go win
the next one. Literally, it's that the letting this one go,
you can go win the next one, but go after
the next one with the same open mind and spirit
and energy that you would the first time. It's almost

(09:29):
like I say, you know, I think that you can
actually translate it to relationships. I used to think that, oh,
relationships over here and businesses over here.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I actually think they're one of the same. They actually
take the same fundamentals to be successful. We tell ourselves
we take an L on a relationship, then we build
up the walls of boundaries and defense mechanisms because we
don't want to get another L. That doesn't work in business.
You gotta go at business, not walls of defense and mechanism.
You should go informed, but informed isn't a boundary. Informed,

(10:00):
just informed. But you should go at it just as
free spirited and energetic as you would have gone after
anything else in life that you care about.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, and optimism, right, it's important.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
I think a lot of people in their personal relationships
with whomever they may be involved with, they don't have
the same level of optimism that they may have in
business or at work or in other realms.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I think you have to be optimistic on all fronts.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Optimism doesn't mean that you're oblivious or delusional or delusional,
but optimism means that I believe that a good outcome
can come from this, and if I take these steps
and I am diligent and I'm disciplined, that that optimal
outcome can come.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's like one of those things that like when I
meet someone and not that they're DeBie Downer, but you
can just tell you take a lot of ls. You
start to sit in too much in reality, and reality
is like you're sitting in the L. But you can
look at tomorrow as either another opportunity for a now
or you're gonna get Tomorrow is another opportunity for a W.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
And that's literally what optimism is. It's just the option
that the W you can have. Yeah, I but I believe,
I still believe I will win tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
That's what I think businesses, that's what I think definitely
entrepreneurship is because every day there's gonna be moments of
time where you feel like you won, and there's gonna
be moments of time where you feel like you've lost.
And that's going to be all in the same day
most days. Right, Like entrepreneurship is like going from crying

(11:32):
to like laughing hysterically all in the matter of an hour. Right,
you get that loss in the morning, but then you
get a win right before the day is over.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's why I just take them all the same. I
just accept them and move on.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
And you can't get too high on the winds and
you can't get too.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Low on the lows.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
You got to like live in the middle of just
knowing that something's going to come to derail your day,
but also know that something's going to come and uh,
you know, change your trajectory.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Our guest today is Powerhouse Entertainment lawyer Tiffany Graddick Harvard
Law went from emergency acquisitions to representing some of the
biggest names in entertainment.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Tiffany got her start as a corporate attorney in New York,
transition to working in legal affairs at movie studio twentieth
Century Fox, and now she's a partner at talent law
firm Johnson, Sapiro, Slewett and Cole, where she works with
big names like Emma Stone, Jamie Fox, Steve Carrell, and Rihanna.
But more on that She's focused on building a client

(12:32):
list that reflects her mission advocating for the underdog. Tiffany,
Welcome to the Wealth Break.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
Hey hey, hey, so.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Tiffany, So you have like this amazing background and all
these credentials and you went to the best universities Duke
and Harvard. But was there ever a time when you
didn't have money? Like, were your beginning's humble? Were they
not so humble? Kind of tell me the background.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, so you know, I came from a I would
say a class background, but I wouldn't say.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
Well, first, let me say this.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
I listened to your first episode, which by the way,
was amazing, and it was with Monique Idol.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
It is am I getting that right?

Speaker 4 (13:12):
And she said something that really like blew my mind
because she had said, you know, even when I didn't
have money, I never felt broke right, and it's a mindset.
And I remember listening to that and I was like, oh, damn,
that's a gem, you know that.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
Was that was a gem right there.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
And I also remember feeling like that was so not
how I felt at the time. So I can sort
of give examples a specific examples along the way of
how I felt like you know my car would decline,
or you know, I was like googling, you.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
Know, how do I get a payday loan?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Like I've had all of this in my background, but
I think I want to focus on sort of like
the mindset piece of it all right, because my mindset
was even for a long time, it was even when
I felt like I money, I always felt broke.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
And so tell me about that, because that's that's a
different kind of mindset.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Tell me, yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
And I think it's because of how it's it's ironic,
because I feel like the same qualities that you know
have served me well in my career and have helped
make me successful or try to be successful, like never
being satisfied, always being hungry, always being a perfectionist, always

(14:30):
sort of striving to the next level.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Like that.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
I think that mindset also lent itself to feeling broke
because oftentimes my head was on a constant swivel, like
I'm always looking ahead of me and thinking like, okay,
what's next, Like what do I how do I how
do I achieve this? Or I'm looking behind me and
I'm like, okay, what could I have done better to?

(14:53):
You know, maybe if I had done this, I wouldn't
be here, and then I'm looking around me at my peers,
and I'm like, well, you know, Susie, how as the
car over here and I'm sitting here blah blah blah.
And so, you know, for a long time, I feel
like I struggled with like the comparison factor, which is
you know, and it took me a very long time
to sort of get out of that.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
How did she get out of that? Because that is
hard social media.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know, you're in a really competitive field, right, so
you're seeing your peers and articles, or you're seeing them
book certain clients, or how did you get out of
that mindset?

Speaker 4 (15:27):
You know, shout out to my therapist? You know, seriously,
it took a long time.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
Actually. You know.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
One thing that was really sort of impactful was have
you ever seen the Jimmy ivan Doctor dre the Defiant
Ones series.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I actually haven't, Okay, it's.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Amazing, highly recommend And there's this scene where Jimmy Ivien
talks about horse racing, which by the way, I don't condone,
but you know whatever, and these horses they have these
blinders on, and he's saying the reason why they put
blinders on is because once they start looking around, they
start to get off track, and that just really sort
of I'm not saying that that was the moment that

(16:06):
I was, like after I saw the defiant ones, that
was when I decided to change everything. But I think
over time and you know, hearing messages like that, you know,
going through my own sort of struggles in life and
then attaining things.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
That I thought that I wanted and then.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
Realizing that, like my personal life is in shamples because
I was so focused on attaining you know, Right, So
I think it was.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Just sort of life one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
I think that makes a ton of sense, right, Like
it's something I've struggled with as well. Right, It's like
the comparison factor of do I have enough or is
this enough? And then you're like, no, it's not enough,
like because I strive and I want more. And I
think that that's why someone like yourself has the ability
to be successful again, go to some of those institutions
that you went to school, because there is this kind

(16:53):
of competitive drive of I want to be better, I
have to be better, and the complacency I think is
really challenging for people like us because you do want more.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, and if you're not, then you're not doing enough,
you know. So it's a really interesting sort of like
tug and pull. But I think like realizing that it's
not all about the thing at the end.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Is helpful now one hundred percent. So tell me how
you got your start, right? Why did you decide law?
Why did you decide entertainment?

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Law?

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Like, how did you find your way into that world?
I used to want to be a lawyer. Yeah, I
thought I was going to go to law school.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
I think it means a better choice. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think I did too. I think I did too.
I think I did too.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
You know, I wanted to be a divorce attorney, okay,
because I've always like looked at stats, right, and I'm like,
if the divorce rate is over fifty percent, then I'm
always going to have a job. So I spent some
time in New York with a matrimonial like ATTORNEYEH, and
he told me how bad his life was, and he
walked me through his day. He's like, I wake up
at like four am, and then I start seeing clients

(17:59):
at seven am, and I see them until like seven pm,
And of course I can't work on cases during the
day because I'm meeting clients, so then I work on
cases till like one in the morning.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
And I was just like, there's no chance I want
to do that.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
But I then went on to just say, you know,
I want to make money though, but that's the thing,
especially in minority communities, black and brown. Yeah, doctor lawyer,
like those are like the paths or entrepreneur, those are
the past to success.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, And I was like, that's just not the path
for me.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
And I also don't want to go to school for
another however long right, but for you, Yeah, how did
that come to fruition?

Speaker 4 (18:34):
So I wish that I could sit here and say
that I was like that kid that was like I
always want to be a lawyer and didn't. There was
none of that. Like I truly didn't know what I
wanted to do in college. I mean, it is embarrassing
to admit, but I will admit it. For whoever it
may be listening, like they could resonate with it. But
I just I loved Law and Order SPU. Like that

(18:54):
is what I would watch constantly with my best friend
and I was just obsessed with it. I had no
idea what to do after college. I know I worked
hard in school, but like I didn't really know what
to do with it.

Speaker 5 (19:05):
My mom said that I love to argue, so I
was like listening to that.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
In the back of my mind, I was like, you know, yeah,
so I was like, okay, like law school seems like
a good place to sort of figure it out. Which
I don't necessarily recommend that that's the reason to go
loans later, but you know, I'm thankful because I happened
to like my job a lot. But anyway, but that's

(19:29):
how I got into law school. And then when I
was there, literally my days were spent just like you know,
I'd be working, studying, and then I would binge watch
shows because at the time it was like Sopranos and
Breaking Bad and The Wire. But the thing is like,
no one, especially coming from the East Coast, like I

(19:49):
don't know about you, we never talked about entertainment. I
had no idea what an entertainment lawyer was. I didn't
know what an agent like. I had no idea about
the business. And even at Harvard, which you know, you
know it's Harvard, they didn't have at the time classes
that were geared towards that I was like you know,
doing moo court and stuff in a courtroom, which I,

(20:10):
by the way, I have no interest in doing.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
So, you know.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
And and at the time it was the financial crisis,
so at that point I was just like, I need
a job. And it's also very hard to get into
entertainment because there's very few positions entertainment law, I should say,
there are very few positions and a lot of people
want them. And then it's just like it's sort of

(20:36):
like a chicken or the egg thing with training because
they want you to come fully trained, but how do
you get trained without you know, so experience exactly. So
I ended up going the corporate M and A route
mergers and acquisitions, which was very use close to be
very very useful, very New York, yeah, very all that,
and you know, it was a very challenging three years

(20:59):
of my life. Like I think that is when I
first learned about golden handcuffs and like explain what that
is for the other that is, when you get paid
enough money to sort of keep you chained to.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
A job that you really really don't like.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
I mean, I'm adding that for additional color, but the
truth is I hated my job. Yeah, hated it, but
I also never made that amount of money in my life.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
It's also like the complacency thing, right, So it's like
you get comfortable, they tell you a lot of money,
You get comfortable, and then you say, maybe this is
just enough some people, yeah, but then someone like yourself
decides not enough.

Speaker 5 (21:42):
Well, I'm like, I like living in Soho.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, I like getting this extra you know, bedroom apartment.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
I'm not mad at that.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
And but then, like you know, I just I just
remember just being so unhappy at the time, and you
know that's so I was doing that for about three
years and just sort of going through the motions, and
then one day my dad passed away and it was
just very sudden, and it was very much like the
floor just dropped out.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
From under me. And I was like, I, you.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
Know, thought I had it all figured out, like you know,
and I'm having all of these existential questions like who at,
Like I'm at this job that I hate. You know,
my dad always said that he saw me in entertainment,
and you know, I always said that I wanted to
do something in that field, and like I'm not pursuing
my passion and purpose and it was really just like
a come to Jesus moment about like, you know, once

(22:34):
you realize that life can literally change like that, it's
like what are you?

Speaker 5 (22:39):
What am I going to do about that?

Speaker 4 (22:42):
And so that was really a turning point in what
then cured me towards pivoting.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
So how did you get your start in entertainment?

Speaker 5 (22:52):
It was tough.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
I so I moved to La I just said, you know,
I'm moving out here. Didn't know anybody I.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Hate much more known for entertainment law.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yeah. Yeah, being in the mix is step one.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
Step two was I literally cold called everybody that graduated
from Duke and Harvard that was in entertainment law, like,
and I was just like, hey, would love to learn
about what you do. And I would just try and
meet with anybody and just ask them questions about their

(23:26):
job and you know whatever. Honestly, that is what led
to my first job and actually my current job now,
but that's another story. But it was literally just knocking
on doors and relying on connections.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
So that's the East Coast hustle, right. It wasn't handed
to you. You had to like literally go out and
get it. And you know, for those who are listening
or who are unhappy at their jobs right now? What
advice would you have for them as they think about that?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Right?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
It sounds like your kind of career transition respawned by
like some grief.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
But for others, do you have any thoughts that?

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, I mean, look, I think I think a lot
of people can probably resonate with grief or some sort
of thing that happened in their life that serves as
like hopefully it serves as a motivator versus like becoming
paralyzed or stagnant. I think my own personal journey and
sort of moving from where I started in entertainment to

(24:21):
law to now is entertainment is one of those things
where you have to be able to hear know a
million times and.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
It might be on to something. Entertainment.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
Yeah, actually, you're right, You're not wrong. I mean both.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's not all great, but I think it's just kind
of pushing through the doors that are closed is what
separates the people who actually can make it and can last.
And that's for the actor, by the way, that like
here's you know, a million os which happens all the time,

(24:58):
and just like being able to take it on the
chin and keep going. I think is like the biggest
lesson that I've learned, because literally every single job that
I've gotten in entertainment has been because someone told me, no,
I didn't get this one job in entertainment at this
one firm, and I was devastated about it. But somebody
from that same firm called me and said, hey, I

(25:19):
know we couldn't get you because you didn't have the experience,
but I know of another law firm that's hiring, and
that's how I got the job before this one. So
it's like just the lesson that every door that closes,
if you keep going, will likely lead to another that opens.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
So w're in in entertainment. How have you seen wealth
shape people's identity? And this could be from it pulls
them further from reality or in a way that it
might ground them.

Speaker 5 (25:48):
Working with celebrities.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
I think it's been a very interesting journey just seeing
how I think it's hard enough just being humans right
and having issues in life, and then you add in
a different like you add in fame on top of it,
and probably a lot of money on top of it.
I'm empathetic to certain people who end up sort of

(26:11):
pulling away from reality because I feel like when you're
you know, living in sort of this space that's up here,
it can be very easy to surround yourself with people
who tell you what you want to hear. You know,
maybe they're benefiting from you sort of you know, they're
on the payroll or whatever. And so I think what

(26:33):
I've seen what differentiates people who are grounded is sort
of the company that you keep, Like who you choose
to keep in your circle, I think is everything. And
I think that extends to celebrities or whoever you are.
It's like, you got to surround yourself with people that
I'm like, I don't care who you are, like how
much you or who you whatever. It's like, no, no, no,

(26:54):
we're not doing that. And I think those people are
always the people that I think are you know centered.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
The next question, which is really around you know, the
legacy makers that you tend to work around. I always
think about once upon a time I started a fraternity
and one of our taglines was the Legacy starts. Now,
with that all said, what is building legacy for you?

Speaker 4 (27:19):
This is an interesting question because that it's shifted so
much in my mind over time, because I think for
a long time, I you know, had this vision in
my mind of like a house of a husband, kids
and you know, for my kids, like that's my legacy, right,

(27:42):
Like I always tied the two together. Having kids means
like you're sort of furthering your legacy, and I think
just giving my own life trajectory, Like I personally don't
know if kids are in my cards or not. And
so I've had to sort of like reframe what that
means and like what am I sort of working towards?
Who am I trying to be? And when I think

(28:04):
about it, like at a forty thousand foot level, I get.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
Kind of like like anxious. I'm like hold on, like
it's too much.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
So I think how I've sort of tried to combat
that is taking every day, just one day at a time,
and thinking, am I showing up as being my authentic self?
Am I showing up as sort of putting my best
foot forward today?

Speaker 5 (28:30):
Am I?

Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's like the little am I treating people the way
that I would hope to be treated. It's those everyday
things that I hope just leads to a legacy that
I'd be proud of. To me, that's that feels more
accessible and bite size, and you know, it feels better
to me than thinking about this like macro sort of thing.
But I love the tagline that you guys. I mean,
that's very weird.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's kind of relatable though, because at the end of
the day, you know that organization was up against organizations
that had this like foundational legacy, and it could be
daunting and a lot of it is not in your control.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
But whatever you do today actually can start it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So, like you kind of talked about, like your definition
of legacy kind of changing and evolving over time and
success over time. How about wealth, Like has your perception
of wealth changed as you've continued to accomplish more in
business and as you've matured definitely?

Speaker 4 (29:44):
And I think the keyword in that sentence was matured,
Like I think when I first when I first sort
of I mean even as a kid, like I always
wanted to work like that was like always that was
always sort of.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
In that mindset. You know.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
My first job was like a hostess at Chili's, and
then I was a foot locker and a server Joe's
American Bar and Grill and Shortdills Mall in New Jersey.
Shout out to them. But I always sort of had
this like mentality that if I work, then I get this.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
It's a means to an end, it's to get stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
You know.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
My mom would be like, well, you know, you're not
going to get this if you don't do this.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
And I'm like, okay, well I'll just go out and
get it myself then, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
And so that was sort of how I sort of
thought about like working, I guess. And so as I've
matured over time, you know, I think I've really started
to think about this concept of like not all money
is good money, you know, and just because I, you know,

(30:46):
have this job, like, am I happy in this job?
For me, wealth means having freedom, having the autonomy to
sort of and having options and not sort of being
tied down to like do something because I have to
do it even though I don't want to do like
even though I don't. Yeah, I'm not happy with it,
and I recognize it, even saying that it feels privileged

(31:06):
to say a little bit. But that's sort of how
it's shifted over time.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
No, I mean I always say, like I think, I think, well,
I aspire to be free, Like I aspire to really
be free. Where because there's so many things that we
don't do because we're concerned about it messing up something
or affecting.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Our future livelihood.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
But if we could like transparently and authentically be free,
like we would do probably do things differently. You would
probably dress the way you want to, talk the way
you want to because you're like, there's no way you could.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Affect my livelihood. And that's like true freedom.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
I think there's other folks and other ethnicities that get
to experience that, because that's real freedom when they get
to speak from their heart, you know what I mean,
and not worry about the consequences.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Right. I aspire for that. I do working in the entertainment.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Space realm, what I've observed sometimes is like a sense
of keeping up with the joneses a lot.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
And as you think.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
About financials and your your own personal finances, how have
you been able to navigate being in a space that
is very flashy, it's very in circle, it's very are
you a member here?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
It's very do you have an invitation to this place? Right?

Speaker 3 (32:26):
And then you know, when you get all these informations,
you got to show up a certain way, right, like
you got to wear certain things, you got to drive,
are you on the list. How have you been told
me exactly exactly, like can you get into the party?
How have you been able to kind of navigate that
right because it is a space where everyone wants to

(32:49):
have a certain PASONA.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
Yeah, you know. Again, I think it's it's it's maturity.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
And then also now, you know, I felt like for
a long time my face was like pushed up against
the glass and I was like, what's going on in there?

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Like I want to be in this party. I want
to I want to be in this room.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
And then when you start to get in those rooms,
I'm like, these people aren't even having any fun, Like
this isn't even like you know, I feel like the
it was all about getting in, but like it's all
just you know, it's not what you think it is.
That's been my biggest sort of realization. And so I'm
probably like I'm very low key now, like I'm.

Speaker 5 (33:25):
Not trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
I don't care about the party like, you know, because
i think I'm just very keenly aware that it feels
sort of like icky, you know, to.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
Be in that space.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Financially, did you ever like overspend or did you ever
go through a phase where it's like because I'm in
these spaces or in this world, that I have to
look a certain way.

Speaker 5 (33:49):
Yeah, you know, it's crazy, but not now.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
But certainly when I first, like you know whatever, when
I was younger, in my early twenties.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
I was so bad with money.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Like I was so bad, and I'm just I'm so
grateful to now like be be much better.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
But it was very much trial and error, like no one.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
I mean, I'm sure I know that you guys have
talked about like no one teaches us how to sort
of like you know at the time when you were
balancing checkbooks or whatever, like I you know, I remember
getting my first credit card. I forget how old I was,
but it was like a Bloomingdale's card, two thousand dollars limit.
I thought I was balin' like I was, you know,
and I immediately ran it up immediately, you know, learned

(34:34):
about interest rates and like then like you know, I
can't pay it back collections.

Speaker 5 (34:39):
My credit is that Like I have been there, I
know very well.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
But I think I'm actually almost grateful that I had
those moments in time because I think just being so
like sort of careless and care whatever, and thankfully nothing,
you know, I've been able to recover, but it's been
very much like tryal in error along the way.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
What are some of the steps you took to recover
and get and maybe changed?

Speaker 2 (35:06):
I don't know. Was it a mindset shift?

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Was it just I'm putting different financial muscles to work?
Like what was it that helped you kind of get
out of that?

Speaker 4 (35:15):
I think a part of it was like, as I
sort of came into my own in my career, I
was like, I can't be a lawyer out here advising
people with my not together like what like that?

Speaker 5 (35:25):
That just didn't feel right to me. I felt I
was like I need I need to do better.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
You know. And that's and I was like, okay, like
what do I need to do to fix this? And
so my first step was sort of because by the way,
I had taken a huge pay cut to go back
from corporate law to entertainment, and so it was like
adjusting to that, to that sort of step. But I
think it was like the little things like putting money
towards my four one K, like making sure that I

(35:50):
put money towards me as much as I know maxed
it out. Then allocating a certain portion of my savings.
I did not cut off all the credit cards except
for like my AMX, where I knew I could had
to pay that down every month. I knew that I
had to pay that at the end of the month,
and little by little, like I just kept doing that
and then I was able to save up enough for

(36:11):
a down pay. You know, It's like it just it
took a long time. But I'm glad almost in a
way that I did all that because I feel like
it makes me appreciate sort of you know, being more
much more responsible now.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
As you progressed, would you consider that the thing that
you had to unlearn?

Speaker 4 (36:28):
I think, honestly, if I had to unlearn anything, it
was sort of never feeling like I was good enough,
constantly comparing yourself to other people. And I think I
always because I had this mindset of like I'm never satisfied.
I always have to keep on like trying to improve

(36:49):
and you know, be better. And I think it was
like there was almost this imposter syndrome that started to
creep in. It's like, you know, I see this person
over here in the just sounds so eloquent on this podcast,
and like I wish that I could be like that person,
you know, and like it's just you know, and I
feel like finding the confidence within myself and honestly faking

(37:11):
it till you make.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
It a little bit.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
I think that there's a lot of value in that
helped me sort of get past that and also realizing
that when you start to get to know the people
who you think have it and you realize that we're
all human beings with real issues and real problems and
we all struggle through anxiety and whatever, then I think
it made it much more.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
It felt more accessible to just be meet myself.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
I think my theory is that I think anybody can
be wealthy, But to me, it's just an equation of
if your income is X, you should live somewhat significantly
blow it. And the concept of that is that like
when you live within your means, you like remove all
of the expectations of someone else, but you kind of

(37:56):
lived to the expectations of what It's true. Yeah, your
argument could be like, maybe I can't live like that
in a certain city with then, but that means you
got to go to a different city. But if you
truly just live below your means and be comfortable, the anxiousness,
the expectations of not living up to something, all of
it goes away, and then you have excess, and excess

(38:18):
can be saved, excess can be leveraged to pay off things.
It just kind of creates an entirely happier lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
And I always say that people. I think people should
just talk about living below their means as the route
to happiness, because everything about getting the next job and
then leveling up on the car in the house, you're
just putting more pressure on yourself. And that's fine, but
that has to be daunting.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, welcome to our arguments, our debates. Rather proceed, I
think that you can be our immediate. I think that
everyone does not have a chance to be wealthy. I
think that you know, what we talked about is wealth
kind of being a sense of freedom, right. I know
some really free poor people too, like who are like

(39:08):
poor in dollars, right, but they're happy with what they have.
And I think that some of the wealthiest people I
know in dollars are actually some of the most caged in,
not free, not happy people that I know. So I
think you have to think about wealth in a couple
of ways. I actually think about wealth in dollars, right, Well,
there's two types of wealth, right, there's personal joy and happiness,

(39:33):
which is a component of being wealthy in a certain way.
But from a dollar perspective, I don't think that everyone
has that shot, right. I think that the ones who
come from extremely humble beginnings and pull themselves up by
their bootstraps, Like that's a special person who overcomes so
much adversity. But there's only a few of them, right,

(39:54):
that are able to accomplish that, And it takes a
lot of what you did, right. You talked about leaving
a career where you made significantly more money in corporate
law than entertainment law, but you wanted to be an
entertainment law for your own happiness and fulfillment. But that
required you to go cold call a bunch of people.
Most people aren't willing to do that, And I think

(40:15):
that the ones who are are the ones who have
the ability to obtain a certain level of wealth. But
there's also a level of somewhat privilege that comes from that, right, Like,
we all had an opportunity to go to college, right,
whether our families helped us do that, whether we took
on the personal debt ourselves, but we did that. Everyone
doesn't necessarily have that opportunity. And then when you go

(40:36):
to a place like a Duke or a Harvard, you
start to see what wealth looks like in different ways, right,
And you also understand that wealth is also a network, right,
And the more people that you surround yourself with, you
have an opportunity to start to like leverage that it's
almost like it rubs off on you.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
But everyone doesn't have the opportunity to go to a
four year institution or Harvard or Duke. So for me,
I think that, I mean, and then when you start
look to look at things like the average salary, right,
if you're making thirty thousand dollars a year, it's very
difficult to live below your means, right, So you know,
living below your means is the challenging thing to do

(41:15):
when you just don't make enough to live, right. But
you know, with that, I think you can get creative
and I think that you can definitely be more comfortable
with what you have.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
But I think wealth is tough to accomplish.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
I think with the most interesting thing about what both
of you guys did is like it's it's sort of
how are we defining wealth? I think that's what I'm
you know, how how do you define wealth? And if
you're using the dollar metric, I feel like there's one
sort of school of thought versus if you're using like
the happiness metric, there's another. But it feels like between

(41:49):
you both. What you guys were saying is this sort
of like willingness to sacrifice in both cases, like the
you know, if you leave, you're living below your means,
if you're cold calling people, whatever, it's the sacrifice. It's
like the that to me is sort of the pathway
towards achieving, even if it's whatever it is. I think

(42:13):
like putting your all into something is how you achieve
your goals.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
It's almost like I think in both scenarios, right, what
I'm ultimately saying is that I think we got to
figure out how to extract as much value. And if
you are privileged and you do get the right job
and went to the right school or get the right contract,
if you spin to the limit, yeah, you are creating
an unnecessarily unhappy situation.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah you're talking about discipline, Yeah, yeah, like you still
have to have.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
And it puts your wealth at risk.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
I think a common misconception for most people is that
they think, of course there's outliers. If you're an NBA
basketball player, you make forty million dollars a year, you
can kind of like earn your way into wealth. But
the average person can't just salary alone earn their way
into wealth.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
To have the wealth story and both scenarios, whether you
got or don't, you have to actually create a pool
a capital that allows you to be freedom in your choices,
allows you to have capital, make investments, allows you to
have capital to think about what should I do with
this little bit of money?

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Right? Right?

Speaker 5 (43:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:26):
When you have a lot of it, all of a sudden,
you can do things. I think what's interesting is.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Wealth doesn't really ever come without risk, though, And I
think that a lot of people want to be comfortable
and they want to take no risk or low risk,
and usually wealth does not follow that train of thought.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Risky is you leave the good job making more money,
you go do something else. Risk is you leave New
York City and you come to Los Angeles without any
ends into the entertainment industry.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Risk is we leave.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Our jobs and start to start a company where everybody
tells us there's no way that it's going to work, right, So, like,
I think that that is a big component of building
wealth is taking risk. There's no comfortable way to make
a ton of money. There's no comfortable way to kind
of pull yourself out of bad circumstances. Like you have
to take some level of risk. Even like the stock market.

(44:20):
People are like, oh, you know, I want to I
want to invest, but I don't want to take any risk,
Like there is risk in that.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
The only thing I would add is that I think
I think it also has to be informed risk. Like
I think a lot of people are just like, oh, well,
I'll just quit my job and like whatever, I'm going
to go out and I'm going to be an influencer.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
And it's like cool, but like did you have you
done the Dillagy?

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Like have you done the work to like figure out
you know that you learned the business?

Speaker 5 (44:49):
Like you have to be informed.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
I think that that's also like a key component that
sometimes gets lost.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
The problem is like all these like podcasters and self
help people, they're just like, you're not happy, just quit, Yeah,
just just a universe will provide. I'll go to tell
you the universe, Saint provide. You got to figure it
out for yourself.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, that faith alone is just faith, right, No, it's true. No,
I think like that's that. I always say, you actually
can de risk your life if you want to live
to the brim. You know, you want to fill your cup,
like if you want to spend it all, you want
to max it all out fair share. But if you
lose a job, these things can will wipe you out.

(45:31):
You got a plan, I.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Always say, like, I've always lived my life by design,
not by default, because when you don't plan and you
don't make conscious decisions, if your risk isn't calculated and informed,
it's going to leave you in a situation where you
might be very disappointed with the outcome.

Speaker 5 (45:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
I for me, I love the word preparedness. It is
a big part of my life and my mom. One
of the things she's always said is like train hard,
fight easy, but like you always have to be like.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
You know, get information gathering, like just just.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Have all of your tools with you in order to
make decisions. Before you make those decisions, I think.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Is key, trained, hard, fight easy. I'm taking that from all.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
She has some gems.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Before we wrap we have a trivia game. We've never
done a legal addition, you are the first lawyer, so
please bear with me. So, first question, what does IP
stand for in the illegal and creative world? A? This
is an easy question.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
It would be so bad if I got it wrong bad.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I won't even go through it. Can you listen, Harvard?

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I would be like my bad guys, wrong, wrong person property.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Which of the following is not typically protected by copper
right law? A screenplay, a choreographed dance, a brand name,
or a music composition?

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Sonon, This is tricky because I don't do music. I'm
a film and TV lawyer. So I want I want
to I want to put that out there. Okay, but
I am going to go with choreographed dance.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Oh, it is actually a brand name.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
So so, which of the following is not typically protected
by copyright law? It's actually a brand name, which I
wouldn't have thought that either.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean I think it's my trademark.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
I can see how a brand name is not so
a brand name. A brand name is protected by trademark law,
not copyright law.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Got it. So We're going to have a wealth break
dance next episode.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
Can you guys dance.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
He's the dancer. I'm not the dancer. I have nothing
known to have happy feet. What is the term for
a contract that allows someone to develop a film or
show from a book or other source material, development deal,
licensing agreement, option agreement, or the copyright waiver.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
This is a little tricky because I feel like there
are multiple answers in this. You can option, I mean
I would call it option, but you can also call
it a development deal.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
I think, first of all, I think they went from
easy to hard heartheart.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Like and it's a really hard This is really hard
to like not look at because.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I'm like reading it over and over again, and I know.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
How lawyer is all like, yeah, it's an option, but
it could also be a development deal.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
In Parliamce, you.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Were correct, it was the option agreement.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
Would it be helpful to describe what I do for
those who are listening?

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Yeah, I don't know, because I feel.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
Like I never knew what an entertainment lawyer was. I
think that would be great essentially. So, what are you
guys's favorite shows or movies?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Well, it's a tie between The Wire and Breaking Bad.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Oh that's in my top top three. Yeah, Soprano's breaking.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
Bad in the wire.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
It's definitely the wire.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Okay, Okay, great, So we represent interests for example, So
let's use okay, so to explain a large chunk of
what I do. So you have an agent, and I'm
not talking specifically about addressing this example, but typically what
happens is you have an agent that says, I have
a project for you actor.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
Do you want to be in it?

Speaker 4 (49:33):
The actor says yes, and then that's when the talent
lawyer comes in and then negotiates all of the deal
terms surrounding the deal. So money, credit, whether you see
the guys, you know, were woman's face on the billboard,
they're perks, all of that. That is what we do,
and then we sort of take it from the deal

(49:54):
making stage to the paperwork stage.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
And that's just like one very sponse Liver. But yeah,
question for you. So there's so many entertainers in the
music realm. I know you don't do music, but everybody
hates their deal in music? Yeah everybody? Yeah, fifteen years later,
twenty years later, Oh they robbed me.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
It seems like they hate their deal into TV as well.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
You're not wrong based on that, but the shade room.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
But I see a lot less actors and actresses saying
that they got a really bad.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Oh they're talking about it going crazy.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
Right now, they do talk about it.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
And I want to say something about this because I
feel like celebrities sometimes get a hard shape, like I
think when I'm in the shade room comments because I
do read them from time to time, I will admit,
and they're always like, oh, but why is this person
complaining when they're getting like a million dollars in and
blah blah blah blah blah. And what I always like
to say is, like, how would you feel if you

(50:55):
were at your job and you thought that you're white
male coworker or you found out that they were making
double what you made? Doesn't matter if you're making a
million or ten dollars, like, you're not going to feel
good about that. And so that's I'm not saying that
that's a lot of people's argument about why they should
get a lot you know, paid more, but you know,
there's I think one of the things that I love
about my job is that you really, when you're representing people,

(51:20):
you really have to understand why they want what they
want in order to like craft your arguments. With the studio,
and it's like it's not just that this person wants
more money, it's you know, it's because of X, Y
and Z reason or whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
And so yeah, it seems like it's a lot to
take into consideration. And again I'm not the expert. I'm
really just the person reading the tabloids. But I think
it was like something that Taji had initially said, but
then like Making Good had commented on, they were all
talking about just over and I'm not being happy for
certain deal terms. And obviously the strike caused a lot

(51:55):
of issues. Yeah, I mean I would love to talk
what because for people not.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
In entertainment, we just felt like we had less content.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
You're like, where is my show on Thursday night that
I typically watched exact bye bye?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
No.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
I mean, look, it's it is a crazy time period
right now for all of us, for all industry, for
the world. But like in entertainment has just been really rough.
I mean, you had the pandemic and then people are
not going to I don't.

Speaker 5 (52:25):
Know if you guys go to the movies anymore.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Hopefully so have not been since the pandemic.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
See that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I've gone for the nostalgia you guys should.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Go to IPIC theaters. That's the best. Like I like
an experience, but that is my favorite.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Yeah, and for those who don't know, it's when you
get to sit on the recliner chair and like push
your push the button and then like a ninja delivers.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
Like you know, food, wine, all the things.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
But yeah, So you had that happen where people weren't
production shut down, a lot of people got laid off
of work, and then studios weren't making movies and so
they're it was a drop in content from that, and
then you had you know, the writer's strike, and then
you had the actors strike all at the same time,
and it just created this perfect storm of like, you know,

(53:12):
people are not working, but they're also not working because
they believe in getting higher wages and you know, real
issues with AI and whatever else, and so it's just
led to this sort of situation where now because the
actors and the writers negotiated for higher wages, studios are
not paying as much like they're not their budgets are

(53:34):
are now higher, and so they can't you know, pay
people as much money as they used to, and so
a lot of people who may be complaining in the
press about their deals. Are you know it is happening
around the industry right now, Like the deals just aren't
It's not like ten years ago when Netflix came on
the scene and could you know, give twenty million dollars out, Like.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
They're just not doing that anymore one hundred percent. How
do you feel about AI in the space? Should people
be worried who are in the space? Uh?

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Yes, I'm worried in my space my personal life, although
I do have this very cool have you guys ever
gotten like the food delivery from the robot thingies?

Speaker 5 (54:14):
I like Josiah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
But no, in all seriousness, I mean it is a
very real concern.

Speaker 5 (54:21):
I think it depends on who you are.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Like, if you're a director and you're being told that
you have a budget of ten million dollars to shoot
a movie, you know, maybe if you use AI you
can meet that budget. It's not going to be as
hard to do. Versus if you're an actor. I don't
know about you, but I would want, you know, control
over how you digitize my likeness and how you can

(54:44):
use my face and sort of rework it and all
of that.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
And so there's a lot of like interg I.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
Mean even as a talent lawyer, you know, now with
like chat gbt and all these other apps like that,
could just like you know, write me contract on dadada
like they can do that now, you know. And so
it's it's a very interesting time and I'm very curious
to see how things go.

Speaker 5 (55:09):
I mean, it's changing so rapidly.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
So so chat gbt could draft the contract, but someone
like yourself is actually they're advocating with the production company
of the studio whoever on behalf of the talent. Yeah,
chat gbt can't really do that yet.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Yeah, I feel like they're learning me. I don't know,
they're learning my styles. No, I don't know, but you're right,
like it is not to the point where they can
sort of like a lot of my job. And I'm
sure with you guys too, it's judgment. It's like reading
the room. It's there's a lot of politics, there's a
lot of egos, there's a lot of things that I
think are very nuanced that I don't think a computer,

(55:51):
at least right now would be able to pick up on.
So I'm not you know, for my speaking very selfishly
for myself, I'm not as concerned, but you know, it's
it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Me and my sci fi movies.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
I love fi.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
It's been, it's just been. It's just uh, it's like
we're we're losing something though. It's just getting more and
more like graphic heavy.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah, versus you can tell us graphics and then you're
accepting it versus at some point in the history, like
it was a little bit more.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
Real, like yeah, yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I am waiting for content to return, and I'm hopeful
that AI can start to bring that back in some capacity.

Speaker 5 (56:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
I mean, look, the wheels are turning, deals are being made.
I'm gonna plug Paradise, the show on Hulu who we
represents Darlene k.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Bra amazing show, incredibly my favorite show right now.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
That's what you like sci fi?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
That was great, Yeah, and a great budget fi and
I like that show.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
That was like and also I was like, you know,
because you go back and forth like sci Fire that
was so sci fi.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
It could be no episode seven.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Oh man, I felt like I was googling, like when
is the next extinction event?

Speaker 5 (57:07):
Like I was, I was, I was in a zone.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
You're hearing everybody building these bunkers.

Speaker 5 (57:11):
That's what I'm saying. I need one.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, we all need one. We gotta get this wealth.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah he knows I'm a I'm a doomsday prepper. So
I had read the show. After the first episode, I
was like, I was like, because you read the description
and it says it's sci fi, right right, So I'm
watching the first.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Episode like I didn't know that it was going.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
To I was like, the only way this is sci
fi is that this is all fake. And I was like,
why he lived down the street from the President. I
was like, you just don't make sense.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
My boy was jogging to work. I had questions, but
then I's.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
Questions, no answers, but it was this is why, Like,
this is why I love sort of content. And I
don't know, I just I'm such a fan of entertainment
because I think bringing these stories to light, it's just
it's the best.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I think we have we can close out with. I
guess the final one. The question is which famous lawyer
turned producer help pioneer major entertainment deals and rapped artists
like Prince and Michael Jackson, A Johnny Cochrane, b Alan Grubman,
C Johnny L. Cochrane Junior. D Londel McMillan.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
I'm going with D Londel McMillan.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
You are correct. Oh, I love that, shouts out to Londell.
What advice would you give to your younger self today?

Speaker 4 (58:39):
You know, I am a big believer that everything happens
for a reason and that, like you know, I wouldn't
change anything about the past. But I think what I
would tell myself is I would give I would give
her encouragement, you know, like you're doing well, like you're good.
I think I needed that, And I would say stay curious.

(59:04):
I think curiosity is one of the biggest assets that
a person can have. And because I'm always thinking in jokes,
I would say, I know you're buying all those self
help books, read them instead of just toss it into
the side like the Susie Orman all that, because that
was like a huge thing for me. I always would
like collect them and just never read them. So I

(59:25):
think that'd be I would have been helpful back in
the day. Read the books you buy, Read the books
you buy.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Well, this is the wealth break.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Thank you, Tiffany, Thank you guys for having me. I
very much. Respect everything that you guys are doing, and
I will be tuning in because I need all of
the advice myself. So yeah, I know this is great.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Say you next time please, Thanks for listening everyone. The
hosts of The Wealth Break are Me, Rodney Williams.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
And Travis Holloway.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
If you want to stay can follow us at the
Wealth Break on all platforms and be sure to visit
the Wealthbreak dot com for additional resources to help you
on your journey to building wealth. Our executive producers are
Ryan Marx and Malik Soka, with Meredith Barnes as our
supervising producer.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Catch you next time on The Wealth Break.