Grand Opening, Grand Closing for Virtual Rappers?

Nyla and Mouse talk about the unplugging of AI virtual rapper FN Meka and what’s next for the future of algorithm based rap featuring Jacques Morel.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, guys, and welcome to what hip Hop Questions
Like list. My name is Ali Smone and I'm the
man that pushes jucks and juxtaposition Mouse Jones. Now mouse
hip hop has been around dam near for years now. Yeah,
actually this time next year mixed with the years. That's
crazy to us because I'm keeping it going. We're part
of that. The dinosaurs died a long time ago. You

(00:23):
called the culture. Culture called them the dinosaurs too, only
only specific people. Okay, you know what. We'll say that
for another podcast topic. That's pretty good. But the years
and now we've seen some weird ship go down. That's
a fact. What's the weirdest thing you could think of?
I'm not gonna lie. I feel like every three years
I see something new weird in hip hop. I mean

(00:46):
it's it's it's funny to think about Young Thug, right,
who I love, But like I was like vehemently, like
I was like adamant against Young Thug when he first
came out. I just thought it was so weird really,
and it wasn't even from like a homo focus standpoint,
and maybe it was back then, like, but it was
weird because he was like talking gangster ship, but like
in it's like super high pitched falsetto. And then also

(01:08):
he didn't look anything like blondred Like this is weird
to me was weird, but with the people that were weird,
I kind of liked it, Like I liked Ouzy and
I liked the but it was like their weirdness was
what I liked. But then once they started getting money,
I felt like the weirdness got to another level where
I was like, no, this is actually really weird. Where's

(01:31):
somebody who I feel got weirder with money? Different? It's
just different, that's all. It's not weird different. They can
own it weird. Let's not let's not give anybody else
a cancelable term weird. Let's it's weird. Is weird? Okay, Okay?
I feel like we all have something weird about is?
What is the weird thing about you? Na? The weird

(01:52):
thing about me? So many things? How about the weird
thing about you? Is celebrating your birthday a whole month
and after I don't make the rules. This is the
people wanted to said, Nila, your birthday passed and you
did not give us a party. You have to give
us a party to astronomy signs later only one you're

(02:13):
a leo. Yeah, okay, but I'm a cancer moon since
you're so girl? What else? No? But honestly, till today,
I wanted to talk about what everybody was talking about
on instagrams on social media this week. Yes, AI technology
is taken over. Will Smith trying to warn us he

(02:35):
did you know what? That was your funniest train? I
could probably do death comedy by Darren. I think I
have a future alright, so um. A couple of weeks ago,
Capitol Records announced a new signed controversial rapper, a rapper

(02:55):
with more than ten million followers on TikTok. You may
have heard the story about out but the first bachel
bachel Bach. No, we've had those for a while. Thank
you for not laughing. I thought I was gonna get him.
You not wrote me into your toxics. Not this time

(03:20):
got him? Oh my god. All right. The first virtual
rapper power by quote unquote artificial intelligence, whose name was
f N Mecca. Wow, we already changed the berbers to
was like like they de activated just because they dropped
him that he's deactivated quick oh so quickly. There's a
lot of backlash and people responded to the way the

(03:42):
rapper looked and how he used the in word. Now
you don't have to say the word. You can say
nay that I didn't write this, but I'm reading it it.
Um we are going, Oh, we're gonna get into that
very soon. Mouse, I'm sure you have a say about
to say about it. But this week Capital announced that

(04:03):
it's quickly ending the deal, grand opening, grand fucking closing.
So let's get into it. But before we get into it,
we have a friend to the room, close friend, my
real life friend before all of this industry is always
trying to like, I just want to I just want
to separate. I like to like, I like exclusivity. I'm

(04:24):
not gonna lie to love it, love it. And my
friend wears we're going so well and has a six pat. Okay,
who is your friend? Who is your friend? The greatest reporter?
We have the greatest reporter on cultural to it. We

(04:45):
had right coming in five ft five, the greatest cultural
reporter of all time. Let's go, it's your Jacques. To
the people liking this video, the bl you know, no,
I am not the greatest es. Usually when we got
like Elliott and be dot and you are there. They're

(05:06):
not reporters that We've got some great hip. They're not
rots out there. We're all I think Shannon Rolling Stones.
They're not reporters there. They're not reporters there. Their journalists
were all journalists. But like you report in real time,
but you know one else doing like they have time.
A lot of people like be dot Elliott shan't like

(05:28):
they have time to sit with the story. They have
time to maybe talk to the actual people fill it
out your If I want to know what's going on
in there now, I'm going to your Instagram. I appreciate that.
Thank you. It's it's a lot of work, it looks
like it because you you'll be getting some out quick.
I mean I made a thing for myself that like,
I won't spend more than an hour on any video.

(05:51):
And it's like from about ninety minutes from like research
to like me shooting it to me editing it at it.
It's about ninety minutes a day. And I make it
a thing to pay myself first. So I'm mad things
going on. Um, I'm doing a lot of different stuff,
but I always make it a thing to make my
videos first. I love myself first. That no, you honestly

(06:18):
you can pay yourself first. You gotta pay yourself first,
you know, Like I wish you could do that more,
like I thought you were going to try and bite.
Yeah yeah, no, no, no, no, here's what I will say.
Here's what I will say even to the both. I mean,
y'all have a lot going on as it is, right,
But like something that I wish that I did when

(06:40):
I was at Genius, I wish I was making these
videos already because what I found is there was already
a community out there that like likes me, but I
just had to like speak to that. And now that
I've been actively speaking to them, they're coming out of
the woodwork and saying, oh, we've always loved you on
this channel, you know, and in faith. And this is
if they weren't already following me. You know, it's inevitable, right,

(07:02):
like you do this stuff and it makes you invaluable. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Mean I don't know if it's inevitable, because like you know,
you still got to do the work right, Like inevitability,
you know, if you want to make something inevitable or
if you want to make something possible. Stuff to put
the work in. So it was just like kind of
like around the time when I came on for Anti Diaries,
like three months ago, Like that was when I was

(07:23):
like really on like two or three weeks into making
these videos into that ninety minutes a day thing. And
now we're three months later, and like the stuff that
I've like done, like I was, I was in New York,
like I was inter of you my New York Mad yesterday.
You know, I was an NPRS Warning edition this weekend,
and thank you. I appreciate that, and um, it just

(07:44):
came through just like me, just like working. And I
think I think, you know, this podcast outside of us
being like fucking real life like brothers and outside of that,
I think this podcast works because that's what both of
us do, you just and especially with so many voices, right,
like it might be easier to become a rappid and
to be a fucking personality in the culture. Right. I

(08:09):
think with me and I have done individually as collectively
with this podcast is find a way to cement our
footing in our voice in this right like we know
people now know, like all right, if you want this
take on this hip hop thing, all right, we're gonna
listen to the what you know people know, all right,
if we want breaking news or we want like, uh,

(08:29):
in depth, I want to analytical eye on this thing.
Come to job and it's just like it's like doing that.
You start to make. You make your niche a broad thing, right,
you make your niche talent. You find a way to
make your niche thing a broadly accepted thing. Like we're
seeing you on NPR. I was like, yeah, it's crazy, man,

(08:50):
that's where John is supposed to be. He's supposed to be.
He has the NPR voice. He has the NPR he's
supposed to be even you know, yeah, that's why I
get on my r. NPR has the voice I want
to hear. Thank you from Rodney and Sydney. Oh. I
used to Roscoe, I used show. I was telling her.

(09:11):
I was like, yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours.
I listened to up First MPs, Up First every morning.
Give me some up top like like dude, like Steven Stephen.
It's like, when who was it that that left? I
was like, no, over the summer, what's her name? I
know who you're talking about. When she left over to show,
she was like the main host. Yes, yeah, and then

(09:33):
that's why it would be her and Steve. Yeah, and
I was like, come on, why are you leaving? Yeah?
I can't remember her name, but yeah, she left. Yeah.
So I listened to MPRS the first every morning, so
being on the morning edition was pretty awesome. But I'm
waiting for my time but yeah, like you know, to
move on. But like it's it's really just um, I'm
just like happy because I fucking worked so much. Like
now I'm even my photography is starting to really like

(09:54):
you know, pick up like um, you know, um, I'm
it's like I'm considering it like a down pain minute,
you know, like you know, there's more money coming in
so much hopefully like down the line and so much
more Rick. Yeah, I mean hey, right, you know, like
I've like I'm pulling clothes now, not from Rick, not
from not from Rick. We'll go with it from Acne though,

(10:15):
which is cool. It's still pretty big, very dope. All right. Well,
I'm glad you're here, and I'm glad the accolades. Yeah,
thank you coming to You're like the second person in
twenty four hours of telling me to step into to
step into it. I appreciated it. Yeah, yeah, imposter syndrome
is real, but fuck it. Yeah no, especially in New

(10:37):
York City. Impost syndrome is very real, but you don't
have that. I feel that as a photographer. As a host,
I don't like as a host, I'm just very cognizant
of my place in my context. Right So, I don't
think I'm the greatest like host or journalists out there,
because like I'm very much know that there are people
that are better than me. I'm realistic. But what you're
doing better than exactly exactly what you do space and this,

(11:03):
there's other people that do it. You're doing it at
the highest level right now when it comes to a
hosted short form video, whether it is twelve minutes, five minutes,
or ninety seconds, I do not believe this anybody else
doing it better than me. I'll say that right now.
And if you watch my TikTok's, you'll watch them and
then you'll watch them over and over and over, and
you won't even realize that you've watched the five or

(11:24):
six times. You're just reading the comments, just listening to
me talk on loop because like, yeah, and even though
I put it together, like yeah, It's basically like I
just I make I've been making content in this way
since and I just have to figure out when you
I just figure out the different rubrick for it. It's easy.
All this stuff is still there. The storytelling is there that,

(11:45):
the story arc is still there, the explanations still there,
you know. Yeah, I've been doing Yeah in that, in
that context, I'm a fucking bag. Yeah. But when it
comes to other things, I'm like, you know, you know,
I'll admit, you know, there are other people that are
nice to me. So that's the honesty of it all.
Of course, the stories of course, you know, but like, hey,
it's cool, you know, wait until I have a regular podcast.

(12:08):
I'll be the best of that too. Yeah, Like you know,
like you know, I'm a media personality. I've been doing
this for as you know, I've been doing it for
a long time. Yeah, I'm you had that because friend,
oh thank you, his real life friend, his brother, and
this is the this today. I'm with my people. I
don't have to act like you know, with my people today.

(12:29):
So you currently listen to the What hip Hop Questions
Legends and list will be right back after this break.
Get into why you brought me, but yes, we brought
you not just to you know, show you, show you
so much love and make sure you take your accolades,
but this whole f and mecha thing. You were the
first person to report on it, and you definitely were

(12:51):
the first person I saw going going to depth about it.
So I want to get, you know, just first initial
reaction to you know, all the all the ship that's
been going on this week. Yeah, I think we just
kind of started at the beginning to kind of give
it like an overview. So I can't remember how I
got hipped to it, but like I remember coming across

(13:13):
like the song Internet and Moonwalking and it was supposed
to this AI rapper that was using the hen word
and I just remember pitching it a Genius UM and
this is probably April is the beginning of the month
UM And like you know, I would always work on
like one long project a month, one long video a
month UM, and a couple of smaller videos, but I

(13:37):
would really try to report things out, like I had
reported a number of things out at Genius and excuse me,
and if you like hackers, I found rappers that were
like influential rappers that had like you know, that didn't
want to be found. I did all that, like you know,
I did day two stories on the passing of rappers
like you talking to their fans, like I did so much.

(13:58):
But this story was really interesting because it was like
this AI rapper supposedly and obviously all of the obvious
things are really clear to like see through it right,
Like there is no real functioning AI that can create
a rapper. What they were really trying to do is
um put out music that's like you know that that
that's like randomly generated, and they create the songs and
they able to kind of put it on beat through

(14:19):
like ones to try to turn hip hop into ones
and zeros essentially. And I remember coming across this and
just kind of diving into it and trying to figure
out like who the rapper was, like who was behind it,
like learning about all the things. And then I get
in contact with the factory new people. I have a
couple of conversations with Anthony Martini, and at first he's
like he's very like upfront with me, but like he

(14:41):
still won't explain to me, like like who created the rapper,
who's behind it, like the influences and like who was
the rapper that was behind the earliest songs that say
the N word, because when I had come into contact
with them, they had just released his song speed Demon,
and Speed Demon was randomly AI generally rated she want
to skirt my whip. It was so bad, right, it

(15:04):
was so bad. The lyrics weren't there, but Internet and
Moonwalking those are the ones that like they sounded a
little like tak, a little like you know, a little pump.
Those songs weren't bad. They were bad, but they weren't terrible, right,
And I was like, who is the voice behind that?
Because like all I know is like you, a white
guy is pushing a rapper that previously used the N word,

(15:24):
and you won't tell me like who created? Like what
was with the secrecy? And you know, they were just
trying to keep everything on the rap So I just
like kind of like literally just um hit the ground
running and just like hitting up everything anybody I could
and trying to like track all the sources. And and
then there were a couple of artists that I thought
were the voice of FN Mecca for a while, you

(15:46):
know that, like I eventually realized they weren't. I reported
about a couple of artists in my Salt Lake City.
I was able to kind of track down that, like
the creator was based in Salt Lake City, and then
I found that like it was by this dude name
clag Effects. Name is Chris Lee. No, he's not a
black So this I basically like before I tried to

(16:06):
find out who I was trying to find out who
the voice was and who um, who the voice was
and who the creator of the robot wasn't too, and
they wouldn't tell me who the creator was, and I
ended up going through the student um as I was
going through the comments, because if you're hitting the pavement,
like hitting the pavement in the digital sense, is reading
comments is like reading comments on like Instagram, posts on

(16:29):
shade room, post about it, like YouTube read it like
that's like I read. I spent hours reading comments. And
when I was reading through the comments of one of
f and Mex videos, is all these people saying like, oh,
Chris Lee, go away, Chris Lee, Chris Lee, Chris Lee.
So then it put me onto this dude clag Effects,
who is Chris Lee. Chris Lee is the creator of

(16:51):
like Chris Lee is is one part of R T
F KAT Studios. RTF Kati Studios. They make like Sneaker
n F t s you know, um there. It's a
really talented group of people that do a lot of
augmented reality stuff. They were just acquired by Nike in December, right,
like it's like a huge thing, and they were working
in conjuncture with Factory New and to create like fn Mecca.

(17:14):
So then I was trying to figure out like, okay,
like was it Chris that actually created At first, I
thought it was Chris that created it, and I was
just going through all the Chris's Instagram posts and I
found this one post where somebody said like it's like, oh,
did you create this? And this was like from like
so this is like after or so. So this is
like from like after Speed Demon and that's to bed

(17:36):
after Internet and Moonwalking had dropped. And then it revealed
that he's like, oh no, my brother created it. And
then I've dived into his brother and his brother like
was used to make us counter Strike ghost skins on
uh like counter Strike ghost skins and League of Legend
skins and like these are two so basically his brother's
names Brandon, He's are two really talented um uh young

(18:00):
Asian kids from Salt Lake City. Um Chris especially was
a music video director, Like he directed a bunch of
music videos for a bunch of artists out there, and
him and his brother they used to like promote and
sell their guns skins on for cs go. They made
money off of it. Like, I did a ton of
research into their family, like it just like trying to
like scope it out. And then so I had one

(18:22):
conversation with Then I had one a conversation with Anthony
Martini that was on the record and I was recorded
and he's in the back of his like Bentley at
the time, and yeah, it's Bentley, I remember in the scene,
and like he had me speak with someone that was
like supposedly FM Mecca, and I was like, okay, we
can play. I can play this game, but like you
eventually get to tell me who it is, like to

(18:42):
know who it is, who's behind, who's the voice. So
I had an interview with that person that was supposedly
I played ball for a little bit, but then they
wouldn't tell me who it is. And then I did
all this research. I went through a bunch of dead ends.
I had a ton of dead ends. A couple of
artists that were dead ends, and I've got put onto
the fact that it was um this rapper Kyle the
Hooligan that was the voice of the two first early songs.

(19:05):
And then um, I came back with all this information
to them, I'm like, we gotta do another interview, and
I found out who it is, like pretty much, I
broke the like I need I need a comment, Like
I'm gonna go on record and say it was his brother.
Here's a proof I have for that. I found his
brother's Steam group name that that lined up. I lined
everything up. I laid it off for them in an
email and I sent, thinking, here's here's what I'm gonna report.

(19:27):
Do you have a comment on this? And then I
all sent the list of questions and then they answered
all those questions and then if you watched the video,
like you'll see like that's where they explained that FM
Mecca was initially supposed to be a video game character
for a game called Cloud Fighter, um which like and
which honestly on its face is actually like it was
just like SoundCloud rappers fighting each other kind of like

(19:48):
definitely Vendetta. I think it's a great idea, you know what,
I mean I think it's a great idea, you know,
like it's there's no issue with that, right, with that?
And then um, and then it was a mixture of
I C. Knock Low, pump uh Shakashi six nine and
trippy Red right, trippy Red. You know, it's they got
all the biracials in there, you know, viracials for mishmash rope. Right.

(20:15):
And then they confirmed that it was Kyle the hooligan
that was the voice behind the rapper, right, And but
they confirmed it off the record at the time. But
now this is all out, So they confirmed it off
the record, and they said the reason why they wanted
to be shadowy about it is because they were getting
death threats. Now, people like actively, you know, like they
were getting death threats. Right, I'm start just really long winded,

(20:36):
but at all makes sense, thank you. Right, So people
were getting death threats, and to take it a step
back is like one of the big reasons why people
were stending death threats at the time wasn't because of
the use of the N word. It was because, like
you know, f and Mecca was like an artificial human
and I spoke with someone who runs like an artificial
human like like rep Agency and they're trying to come

(20:57):
up with a code of ethics because what I would
notice in reading these comments and hitting the pavement was
that people legitimately thought fn Mecca was a real person.
They were legitimate that they had created an artificially intelligent
like hybrid exactly like people think. There are people that
think little michaela the other tangible is a tangible is
a real person, and like, you know, this dude is

(21:20):
Deadley novel spencer, and he created like a code of
ethics where it's like it needs to be obvious. It's
almost like when you're buying cigarettes now and they have
General Surgeon General warning right, like because we will get
to a place where what you are seeing graphically right
will look as close to real life as possible. And

(21:40):
also that these artificial humans have a really big impact
on young kids, like how they view themselves, you know,
how they see their own like their own bodies, because
these artificial humans are perfect. And what it also shows
is that in this the thing that made and that's
why they were getting death threats and people don't like this,
right people also people think it's real. People don't like

(22:01):
it to the game of death threats, right, So that's
what they want to stay shadowy. And because they were
trying to create like a whole like narrative, like a
whole like storyline like there's another rapper fn normal And
I'm sure they had plans to create other rappers and
stuff like that. What was the storyline with meta like
Metaca Mecca because I don't know, but like they were

(22:22):
just basically trying to make this artist viral. So the
story drops in like it doesn't maybe a hundred fifty
thousand views, you know, nothing crazy? And my show it's
it was. It was one of my best pieces that
I did a genius. I don't know if you got
a chance to watch the video, but you really should.
It's like really I worked. I spent a month on it.
It was really good. Yeah oh yeah exactly, yeah. It

(22:44):
was yeah real friends, right, how many of them? You know?
And um, it was like really good, right, So I
spent a lot of work on it, and um, basically
like last week I see that like fit Mecca is
signed to Capitol Records, and I'm like, what the hell
is going on? And all these people are reporting it.
It's like no one cited me at all, like no

(23:05):
one mentioned it at all, and like someone mentioned is
this all you care about, like getting the credit for this,
and I'm like, yeah, I really just care. This is
my job. I just is my job. Like, you know,
like if all these papers of record, you know, don't
put in a first reported by Jacques Morrel at Genius right,
then it's almost like I'd never did any work on it.

(23:26):
And on top of that, a lot of the reasons
that people were so pissed at this robot were things
that I pointed out and explained back in, you know.
And I think the biggest issue is, like there's a
lot of people that are out there It's like, well,
what does it matter if a black person since it's
a black person that had said it. The thing is
that what happened was that Kyle got cut out of
the process. Kyle, according to him, Kyle said that Kyle Hooligan,

(23:50):
who was the voice behind Internet and Moonwalk and the
two early songs with the N word in it, Kyle
said that like he was initially talking with them and
they we're gonna give him equity, and he was gonna
beat there was gonna be a whole thing, and he
was going to be the main artist that was voicing
this robot, and they were just gonna keep it shrouded,
but like he was still gonna be a main part
of the process. They took it to a place where
it's like, no, there's no black people part of this process.

(24:13):
And then on top of that, like so I was
shouts of Jervis Johnson. Um. He's a big, big YouTuber
content creator, um, and he was like diving into this
and he had me on the show yesterday. But Jarvis
has been like sarcastically engaging with the robot on Instagram
because whomever is controlling the fn mechas could account, I
guess like really just thinks this as a joke or something.

(24:35):
And he's been communicating with them and they were like, Yo,
what's the what's like, what's the deal? Like what, like,
you know, basically saying that he's scastically sick, I'm sorry,
what happened whatever, And he's like, he's like, well, we
were created by a black lady and an Asian man,
and the thing is to me, like the thing that
was that was annoying to me. It's like, Yo, when
you first issued the response, if I remember correctly, because

(24:58):
all of my notes are in the Google cloud, like
like I got laid off from Genius, I don't have
access to any of those notes, Like which is this
is something that you learned? I wish I dialoaded all
my emails and I didn't, um hindsight, But in those mentions,
those points, it's like you mentioned that Factory News diverse,
but like you say that Brandon is the one that
was behind this character. So it's like Brandon is his Asian,

(25:21):
Like he's not black like you just not a black lady.
Feels like this character just like this, like whomever's controlling
the account just like included a black lady, like just included.
It's like who is that person? Right to pivot for
just for a minute, um, to talk specifically about f
M mecha and what the what's been transpiring specifically over

(25:41):
the past two weeks, Like now, what were you seeing
as somebody on the radio was this like when the
news broke was brand new to you, like I had
heard about it. I've literally got a message. I gotta
mess I got two messages the night before all the
news came out. It was like, yo, they signed and
this is about go crazy. I'm and literally I looked

(26:01):
and said, I'm here jock in the morning because this
is the this is what he was reporting on a
year ago, like let me see if he knows anything
about But when I got it like one two in
the morning, I was gonna hit you in. Yeah I
had heard about it, but I didn't pay it no
mind or did I care. And then once the news broke,
what I've seen the most is that people just being
upset about him saying the N word. I didn't even

(26:22):
see people being upset that it's a fake person. I
thought this was like a whole n f T thing,
Like I was going to say n f T US
type of thing. You know, f Meca has sold n
f T s that gets sold an n f T
for like a refrigerator, and you know, like a lot
of the blacklashes. Also, there was a picture that surfaced

(26:44):
of like getting beaten up by a police officer. It's like,
oh my god, police brutality and sing like that. Just
a lot of flipping edge lordy type stuff. What does
that mean? Flipping edge lordy? Like you know, very much
like on the internet that like post like this is
this is meant to provote, right, like you know, it's
it's it's it's very racial. But that's how I feel.

(27:04):
And that's kind of why I didn't really put it
no more because I'm like, I feel like they're intentionally
trying to start this conversation, which is why I don't
want to engage in the conversation. But also I just
have to confirm Kyle is black, Kyle is the first
two songs and black Yeah, out of the process, out
the process. According to Kylas, I don't know. I'm not
into the Takashi sound of music, Like I don't like

(27:26):
screaming in my ear stuff. Slash Shill I was like,
whatever it is he does remind people of Takashi, and
he looked explained how he looks For those who haven't
seen it, didn't look like Takashi. You got like this
rock star type of hair, but he looks like a
video game character, like a video game. He looks like
he's a combination, like he's a combination of pump Ic Narko,

(27:50):
Takashi six nine and trippy Red. You know. And the
thing is, I think I think it really strikes the
core of you know, ownership and you know who's part
of that ownership, and like what has happened historically throughout
like life is that you know, you have places that
are not black, like creating things, creating black people, right,

(28:13):
and then utilizing it in like a black genre. And
it just also is like a profound cynicism at like
what we just what y'all started the show at the
top saying like the fifty year history of hip hop,
which is like, yeah, I get it now, authenticity isn't
as prized as it used to be, right, Like that's fair,
but at least these actual human beings playing on their wraps,

(28:36):
you know what I mean? You know, not not like
twelve people that are like okay, should we have the
rapper like talk about this, like yeah, like let's let's
let's or space war space or it's like like instead,
it's like, oh, like we need to do a socially
concert song. So I remember asking Anthony one of our interviews.
I was like, so, what happens if you're trying to

(28:58):
do a socially conscious song and like something happens to go?
We could just like feed a bunch of like socially
conscious music into it and we'll see like what it's
what it spits out? Like they were really yeah, Like
it was like a purely cynical play to like sign
less human artists, because human artists are you know, have
have families and have emotions and get tired and like

(29:21):
sometimes don't want to create the music that you want
them to create. Like you know what I mean. Like
people give industry plants quote unquote a lot of ship,
but at least industry plants often are human beings that,
in the beginning at least are really happy to have
their dreams fulfilled. Right, It's like, yeah, who cares if
you're making me sing this music. I'm just happy to
be here, right, At least that's a human being, I

(29:44):
think my thing. Okay, So the reason I've been so
quiet about it online because I didn't have an issue
with it at first, and to the to this moment,
I still don't have an issue with the existence of
fan Mecca because because if the N word is being said,
I already did my research to know it was a

(30:04):
black person saying it, So that was enough for me.
Now the even with the police brutality thing, in my mind,
I said, well, this it's artificial. So this is essentially
a hip hop cartoon. Right, So if you're telling me
it's not. Then I got don you have to explain
to me what's really going on. My problem came with

(30:28):
when Capital signed him. That's money that could have went
to a black artist, because this is black music. My
issue is always gonna be with the commodifying of our space,
but the occupancy of our space by people other than black.
And my issue is honestly just the death of the art.
Like you're relying on computers to put these things and

(30:49):
they only doing this unless and this is the thing. Yeah, yeah,
Holly Herndon. Um she released a someblem called Prototype. She
makes artificially intelligent music. Um, I can't remember that. That's
one thing I can't remember. There's there there are like
this is a thing. Like Sony and Sony Music just

(31:10):
released Uh they just Sony Music Japan just signed like
five AI s, like like five as by five Artificial Humans.
They just announced something like that, like you know, League
of Legends, like in Korea they have like musicians, like
it's it is a thing. It's not like Little michaela
right where she releases music, right, I think it's not

(31:32):
just hip, it's music across the board. But like I
feel like the backlash was because hip hop is out
of many genres of music and other genres like this,
but like hip hop especially is so racial. It's so
it's inherently racial. It came out of the bombed out
Bronx and Queens, right, you know, I'm not going to

(31:52):
get no. The Bronx came out of the the Bronze
came out of the Yeah right, um that was good, right,
that was real hip hop, right, It's like it was

(32:12):
it came that of the bombed out Trench Town Bronx.
When they're making the Cross Bronx and spreadway like you
know what I mean, like you forward to the city
like stay Dead essentially, like they came out of that Bronx,
which is just black and brown people right like that
are creating this music. And even though it's been commodified,
and you know, you have a lot of white people

(32:33):
that like make make money off it, so much more
money off of it. That's just what makes it even
more annoying because like their ads, like I see every
time I see an mg K going pink out, I
get pissed because I like, this man came in the
game as a whole rapper and now he's a fucking
punk rock star, you know what I mean. Like, and
and that's why, like that's why getting mad at something

(32:56):
like people creating an artificial rapper is so infuriating because
like because what we see it, it's like black artists
don't get the same latitude to be considered different genres
of music outside of rap, right right, and don't get
the same John don't get the same latitude to like
be different people autonomy to move your wrap you wrap forever, right,

(33:19):
you know, Jack Harlow can get rebranded as Tony Bennett
lounge singer. It's gonna have years. It's gonna I'm talking
like you know, Dean Martin Franklin and a kid you yeah, kid,
he has to look for and and I kid you
not like they will it will go up, like he'll

(33:40):
be Michael fucking Boublet, Okay, I kid you not. But
when it comes to like, you know, little Dirt can't
do that, right, like, and he has all the making
so but I guess like that's just explaining like the
core of the backlash, right, like all the top level
stuff of like the police brutality thing, the N word stuff,
that's what's there. But like that's what like really makes
it icky and also like you know, that's what kind

(34:02):
of made me. I remember like just sitting in the
apartment just like talking with my partner at the time,
just like both of us just been like what the funk?
Like this is so weird, like or even talking it
out with like the Lisa or Russell, the people I
worked with, just being like, yoh, this is so weird,
Like no one could believe that, like this was happening,
and like that I was doing something like this. So yeah,
I feel like that's like at the center of it

(34:24):
because it just boils down the artist creation process to
its core essence. And when you removed it's already and
that's already ikey, when you when you remove the humanity
out of that, it just becomes hollow. It's a ghost
in the shell. Yeah. Can I ask you something based
on your research and this is also for months anima,
but you know, is there a machine learning that is

(34:47):
happening with these you know, virtual rappers or whether they're
not rappers or the other one that you mentioned, or
is it really just people with data at their hands
and algorithms at their hands. Is there an actual so
like if once the rappers created, Like you said, you
feed him a song and they respond, is that machine
learning that's actually like real AI happening so? Or is

(35:09):
it just people writing for them and just based on
what they know. So from what they told me, that
song speed Demon, which came out I don't know about
Florida Water with the recent song with Gonna but excuse me, sorry,
that songs that song speed Demon, Um she wanted to
skirt my whip, but whatever, so bad? Um that song
was like, excuse me, I'm sitting it. That song speed Demon,

(35:34):
she want to scrap my whip. It's so bad. That
song was like actually came up with through like artificial intelligence,
as in like the idea of like they just like
randomly add They just randomly like put a creep spat
out a song and they made it make sense. I
explained the video too. There's another thing called Travis Spot
where they did something similarly and they loaded in like

(35:55):
hundreds of Travis scott lyrics and then they made a
Travis Scotts song. But it's still an intelligent well and it
it still requires like a human hands to kind of
crafted out and to select lines that make sense and
then you know, to kind of put it together and
like to make it on beat, so like that was
artificially generated. I think, I don't know, it feels like
they probably abandoned that and they went back with the

(36:16):
model that they were doing before with Kyle. You know,
it feels like it because that just makes the most sense,
because you know, AI isn't making good rap songs yet
it's making like you know, AI was making like decent
pop music. I had a been there where you know,
a as you made like decent pop music, but like
not like rap music in that weston listening to the
what if, I questioned Lendard and listen, will be right

(36:38):
back after the break, So piggyback off of the hollow
comment you made about how they're making the music so
hollow almost in a sense like even okay, like when
I got into the music industry and I see how
labels groom and like prep artists, they almost like handicapped

(37:01):
them in a sense where it's like, oh, whatever you need,
you don't have to ask for anything, will take care
of you. Oh, you have an account, and your accountabill
take care of that. You know, to the point where
you know all they do is kind of just live
and create art. So it's like they like the dream.
To be quite honest with you, I need somebody do
that for me. But but not really because you're not

(37:23):
in control. Yeah, you're be in controlled. They tell you
they're taking care of you. Finish your point though, I
was saying that to say that, Um, it's kind of
what they already do with the humans. So I would
prefer them doing it with the human beings. No, no, no,

(37:44):
with the robot as opposed to doing that to people
and just let people who want to create art create art.
But the problem is, like capital is always going to
flow to the path of least resistance, and if we
allow them to just continue to come out with like
artificial human means and just make artificial music, they're not
gonna there's gonna be no capital floating to the people

(38:05):
that you know are just creating art. Because art deserves
to be prized too. I feel like it to just
be more underground because we're already we already live in
an era where bullshit music thrives. But do you want
to live in an arrow where like all the good
music the only way to like all the good music
is underground, And like we're there, but that's not the case.

(38:26):
We've always been The Weekend just released a great album
this year, and he's the most mainstream person ever. Beyonce
released an amazing that's not hip hop, that's in hip hop,
Little Little Baby, that's great music dropped nothing this year. Yeah,
but like Little Baby has been dropping, like he's been rapping.

(38:46):
Like I'm saying, the context is like it's like I
would rather road Way. I wasn't into his latest iky
it was, but like this this that's neither human or
there also not made for Masha's mainstream, right, I'm not
saying he's not culturally relevant and we don't give a

(39:07):
funk with him. I'm saying he's not mainstream as and
he's not Drake Like, he's not coming up, he's not
getting played right now at the radio for the next
three hours, not at all attitude. He's not mainstream. Not
saying he's not relevant, but he's not on the market,
he's not on the cover as he's not doing mainstream
quote unquote ship. That's what I'm saying. And then back
to my point is that people like you said he

(39:29):
sold X amount of records, but he's not mainstream. He's
so he's like underground. So I'm saying these animated people
are going to be mainstream anyway, They're gonna get the push.
They already got to deal with Capitol Records. Yeah, well,
I mean they dropped it. But it's like my thing is,
it's like but then, but then that's that's essentially the
equivalent of they're going to take ourge jobs, like in

(39:49):
the sense of you know, when you have when you
have AI or robots, like you know, really decimating like
warehouses and like across the back. Right, it's like it's
a yes, certain things. Then you need to innovate, and
you need to like grow and you need to change,
Like it's much easier to have a lot of robots
build a card than like human beings. Right. But like

(40:10):
when it comes to art, if we allow art to
just be also algorithm algorithm based, right, then it's not art.
I don't think what if the people in putting the
algorithm in the data and the code, and what if
they are artists. If if if all of that is
being fed into but all if all that is being

(40:33):
fed into a bottleneck, it's a new form of art.
It is a new form of art because like the
stuff that hollyhod does. There are people that make you know, AI,
that make art with like AI that's like legitimately art,
Like they give it limitations and they, you know, like
it is art. But I just feel like I just
feel like when it comes to my music, like I

(40:55):
need that to be human. But I don't think it's
gonna I'm not saying that I think we should lean
onto it. I'm just saying I feel like it's almost
inevitable just at the rate of how it's coming back. Yeah,
it's it's like there's another TikTok or if I wasn't
a sunny baby and he made a TikTok where he
was like, yeah, this won't be the last time it happens.
But but the thing is, next time they'll just be

(41:18):
cleaner about its problematic, less problematic. They did the N
word on purpose. No. I think my reason why, the
reason why I say no is because because I spoke
with Kyle yesterday, interviewed him yesterday, and it was because
initially he was just told to make more or less
his own music and then we'll use it and they'll
use it for Yeah, Like they didn't tell him that

(41:40):
the guy was going to look, I don't think I
don't think that was important. But I mean, like FN Mecca, honestly,
Mecca like is biracial. Like if you look at F
and Mecca, Meca is built to model a biracial person, right,
we look at him because I'm the other thing too,
is the other thing too is with these artificial human
it's only going to contribute to a dark skinned erasure

(42:03):
because like little Michaela, all of these artificial humans are
like light skin, you know what I mean. They're all
light skin. So it's like I can't trust labels to
not continually just pump out doja cats artificial. If somebody
this color calls me a nigger, I have to give
people to be him. I don't like. I mean, like,

(42:27):
I mean, look, look look eyes are blue. No, look
his eyes are blue. But but there are people, there
are people in the Dominican Republic that look just like that.
You know, they call me a problem. I mean, but
they're black though, you know what I mean, Like it
depends like me, but I will fight if they'll fight,
you know, black, he's the same color as Drake. Like

(42:48):
if Drake's nig all the time, like they're black, Drake
is a nigg on the stone. Well you want call,
I feel like I feel like we're we're in. We're
definitely and the dandelions right now, you know, like but
his eyes are green as a nobody would you know,

(43:10):
Like I'm just saying, like, what's Nick cree Cree Supreme
at green Eyes? He's an exception. He's like, I'm not
gonna do it here and be like, yo is good, nigga.
You'd be like, what you just a form of black face?

(43:32):
Do you think this is a digital form of black
I do think this is a digital I think that
I do think this digital black face. Um. I feel
like black people should be the only people that are
allowed to create black people in terms of like that
to live in worlds, you know, like and I don't
want this to chill like writers from creating black characters,
because like that's one thing that doesn't happen enough. Like,

(43:53):
you know, you should still create black characters. But if
you're trying to create something that's going to inhabit that's
supposedly going to a habit a world, you know, this world,
and then like you know, um, and then speak and
then imbue it with a sense of blackness. So you're accurate. Yeah,

(44:13):
you know that mountain issue with what you said, like,
I don't want I actually would like white people to
stop creating black characters and creating like I would love
because essentially, when when they're creating black characters, they're creating
it from their vantage point, which means all the black.
So they're just using the black the experiences they've had
with black people in service to them. So then you

(44:35):
create black people in these stories only in service to
your white character, as if that's the only way we exist.
I would much rather you give an honest depiction, which
is like when um, a few years ago, when Downtown Abbey,
I believe that the show they were getting pushed back,
and a lot of shows getting pushed back. I'm like,
these people don't in their everyday life, they don't interact

(44:56):
with black people people. So I don't want you to
force them to make what black p person, make the
show white, and then but give us the insecures, give
us the rap shits, give us these shows that show
black people interact with black people. And then if there
is a writing room that is made up of black
people and white people that experience and interact with each other,

(45:19):
then you can give us a show where I won't
feel that black characters only exists to in service of
the white characters, which is exactly how I feel about
f and Mecca. To bring it all over, I don't
have I still right now, at this moment, I still
don't have a problem with this thing. I don't have
a problem with this thing. And maybe it's just because
I don't truly understand the whole gist of it, and

(45:42):
maybe it's supposed to be more it's supposed to be
more real than I'm giving it credit for. But I see,
I've seen it happen in years, and I knew machines A.
I was as soon as it was coming into Amazon
and everywhere else. It was a matter of time before
it comes into hip hop. Why not move out? More
black people will and streamline is thing, so you don't

(46:02):
have to worry about somebody arguing over No, I'm not
I'm not saying that it should be like that. I'm
saying I've seen it coming. That's why I'm not saying
that I want to push back on the one thing, though,
I like, I want white writers to a white TV
writers to create more black characters, right, But also hiring

(46:25):
people more black people in their writer's rooms. I'm just
trying to be realistic because they're just more white TV
writers that are just making more white content. And we
already watched and engage with so much white content. I
would at least love to see some fully fleshed out
black people in these places. I mean, look, I love Succession.
I'm not gonna stop watching Succession, right, but it would

(46:47):
be great if there was a brother two on the
show or a sister, right, it'd be great. And even
even if I had problems with how they portrayed that character,
it would be better than not having any at all.
And my thing is, my thing is I feel like
I feel like in that case because if they're going
to hire black people, then they would bring more black
people into the writer's room. Right, It's like a get

(47:08):
into you would hope, so, right, That's what I'm saying.
That's what I'm saying. My thing is, it's like my
things like you would hope, so you would hope that
there's more black people in the writer's room. Now, look,
I don't That's not what this is about. I wrote,
I wrote a whole TV show, right, I wrote a
whole TV show. Let me say, I wrote for a
whole TV show Hole Live TV show two thousand Sevo eighteen, right,

(47:31):
which show I'm like, I'm not calling. I don't want
to say because I don't want to him. I wrote
for a whole I wrote for t r O the reboot,
right with DC, Young fly Um and Tammer and all
of them. Right, there was one black writer in the room.
Do you know who that one black writer was? It

(47:51):
was me? And do you know essentially what my job
was when I got there. My job was just to
say like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah that doesn't work, that's dumb.
You were backst so it's like and before I got there,
it wasn't anyone. And then I come there and it
was myself and Heather Hanes and Gheto Geto was dead
from from Tell Fall Gets host. Geto was more or

(48:15):
less doing the same thing. Yeah that's cool, floated, but
he was more like a taste tester, like, uh, you
know what I mean. But that didn't last. I was
the only one that stayed there and through that whole time,
no matter what happened, they brought one black writer in there. Ye,

(48:41):
what you're gonna say about DC Young Fly they didn't trust.
They didn't trust him. Theyn't trust The show should have
been on DC DC Young Fly back, but they wanted
to put it on the Only issue with dcng flight
has felt like he was just too like he was.
It was not wild out but they meet. But but
you're you're thinking what you wanted from t r O.
The kids were the audience. We weren't the audience anymore.

(49:03):
We just loved the brand and and and everyone in
there right was loving the brand. But for those kids,
those segments that are all the segments I wrote did well,
and all the segments I wrote did numbers on social
and they were fronted by d C because d C

(49:24):
was the only person on there that could keep those
kids attention. They don't want the Hey, sit down, listen
to me. I'm talking to you. Listen to me. I
think they need they need a straight man, like ephemistically
as and like someone that's just gonna play it straight.
But I am you're saying, Um, you know, I'm trying
to be equitable to everybody, right, they need a straight person.

(49:47):
And then DC, because you don't want gay people on
the keep those queers away. No, Um, their music tastes
was too good because outshin this all one thing with
machine learning that we might also see in hip hop.
And I'm sure, Nila you may have heard a lot
about this stuff, but you know, you can get to

(50:07):
a point where people come in a room, you get
algorithms for what everybody's musical taste is in a room,
and a DJ could be very much just play a
playlist based on the main streaming of everybody's taste in
one room. So this machine learning is not you know,
the genie is out of the bottle. We could start

(50:29):
seeing this more in hip hop happening where DJs are
replaced by computers based on everybody's in the room musical taste.
What do you guys think about? In Nyla, who are
you scared? Are you shook? You think you could go
ahead to head with a boy? Yeah? Honestly that what
he's saying is right though, because you could headed to
a place where like everybody's like top Spotify top twenty

(50:52):
five is like it's a mix of everybody's Spotify top
twenty five, But which is which? Like which is already
more or less what happens at like from like twelve
again a DJ set right from like one to from
like twelve thirty to like two thirty, Like you are
paying playing the hits, like you are playing a mixture
everyone's Spotify Top twenty five, but like you are also

(51:13):
bringing in classics from like the mid nineties and that
same thing, right, you can you can mix in like
you know, you can mix from Beyonce stuff into a
bell bill, devote right now to a poison right and
then right out of it into sticky right, Like you
could do all of that, but like what what what
you're saying? Personally, maybe maybe not for one to the other.

(51:33):
That might have been a little too you went from Beyonce,
I would I would have pulled the bloat. There was
no genre or error order. I would have been up there. Yeah. See,
I'm a stick to my lane, which is, you know, journalism,
and you know I'm damn good at that. Clearly I'm

(51:56):
not good at mixing. You know, we don't have to
worry about just doing us a random a random soho night.
I don't know. I don't really feel like I feel
like the future is gonna be what it's gonna be.
Like I might not like AI technology, and that's not
even just with music. I don't really like it across
the board and like dipping into factories replacing people's jobs.

(52:19):
I don't like how um was it. I think we're
just we're kind of like stuck right, Like we're kind
of like we have no no choice, like we just
have to adapt to this. So honestly, I think my
my position on it isn't even really as a DJ,
but as like a future mother hopefully would be like,
how am I going to make sure my kids are
still well socialized and smart, intelligent, healthy human beings? With

(52:42):
the computers taken over the world. You have to have
an ai nanny. I just have to keep up with
the technology came about. My parents had no idea what
the hell of my space was. I'm like, yeah, but
are you I want to know how much time tktok
every day? Not so you're not keeping up with technology,
That's what I said. You know, I'm not gonna lie

(53:04):
to you. I for someone that like posts a lot
on TikTok, I don't watch any tiktoks. I never watch TikTok.
I know That's how I'm gonna be, Like, I have
the app, I just have to create my accountter posting.
I'm just using it for another Honestly, you should post
a lot like you gotta. You gotta grow really fast
on there, as long as you consistent grow Really, I'll

(53:24):
post these clips on TikTok all the time. They do numbers,
numbers argue, but I don't spend time on it like
like you. I don't spend time like I'm gonna post
these clips. You're gonna say, hey, I can't wait to
see these clips, right, like you know what I mean,
I'm gonna post them on the TikTok. But also I
feel like we have to do that as content creators
because you could you could get like you could get
like sucked in. It really does something to my mental

(53:47):
I I legit. Yeah, honestly, yeah, I'm happy I'm not
on because the other thing the two is like my
I don't really make trends. I don't know what the
trends are. I don't know what any other rap TikTokers
are talking about. I have no fluid and like I
just get on. I just get on. But I'm lucky
because I did genius. So it's not like people people
like don't know exactly. So I'm afforded the privilege to like, oh, like,

(54:14):
I don't. If I didn't talk about this FM mecha stuff,
I would have made a couple other videos and they
would have did like ten to fift K and it
would have been good to go no biggie. But because
I did this f and mega stuff I did, it's crazy.
I've had like a million views on my TikTok Yeah,
not a regular personal gain seven thousand followers. You're not
a regulars Okay, you know you're regular. I'm very regularly.

(54:38):
You're not. You have a million views? You question any
of it? Yeah, but you need to put that in
your Instagram bio. You have to millions. You have to
another quick question about the whole meca of at all.
Why do you why do you think they chose a

(54:59):
model like a guy like you know, Takashi six nine
or you know they paired Gunna because whereas I think, like,
because someone like a drake. Can you see like a
drake being something that's more easily tangible. Stream was an
experiment that was successful for them, and they were like, no,

(55:19):
Takashi was like he really was. He wasn't He was
his own experience. He was his own experience had no choice. No, no,
Takashi was was a dude who cried cloud. Was the
boy who cried cloud. Actually, yeah, like it wasn't an experiment.
You believe that the head before he got before he

(55:39):
got out of it was very real. Like I remember
I was I want to do a video on Gumma
and when Gama first came out, and I remember my
my um My editor at the time being like, oh,
they filmed that video on my block and like my
editor being like, I don't know if you were to
to do a video on this, you know, like this

(56:00):
this is like around the corner from your house, Like
it was very real, and then and then and then
we found out it wasn't. But you know when Gummo
Billy had hits to come o Billy to people gonna
crucify me for saying this. They were if you were
from New York, they were big. They were if New
York loved it. Toti was crazy. Tot was crazy, like

(56:21):
at Kyota who crazy dude crazy, like the way the
beats and the way he's the way he's like like
he wasn't saying shit. But it was like a lot
of these representation ship but it was like his flow,
like even Fifi with Nicki Minaj, like I was tapped
out it. Fifi Fifi was a hit. Likely came all
right before we got locked up. This is before we

(56:42):
got locked He was terrible. Yeah, I was tapped out
six like at that, Like I think the problem? Would
I think to answer? I think to answer Darren's question is, um,
you're not sing with it. Super freaky girl, not super
freaky the other one. What's the problem? Yeah, what's the
problem is mid? I think what's the problem? Was two

(57:04):
same flow? I don't, I don't. I don't do you
like super Freaky Girl? I have no comment? What's I
got no comment? She wants to keep the barbs out
of the mention. Feel what do you get? I think trash.
I don't hate it. I like the chorus. I want
to know how it's number one deserving it the pop
radio because they're going for like like Nikki, like they're

(57:27):
trying to give Nikki a super base like there this
is like kind of like yeah base, I know, but
like this is this is what they did. And then
she came back to hip hop me I didn't fun
with it, and she was like, you know what I'm
going yeah, and then what's the problem. Like she's seen
that pop money and I don't blame her. She needs
that popplem But I think, I think to answer Darren's question, um,
you can't. I can't emulate Drake because no matter how

(57:49):
you feel about Drake today, Drake has an indiscernible talent. Hey,
I can't replace talent. Now, these kids like the Trippy
Red and I'm sure people I know it's not a
kid at I know people like to say, like I know,
people like to say, like Tripple Red is really talented
out of those Ump and Knight was a great album.
You should listen to it. I'm not, but dude, I'm not.

(58:11):
There's a lot there's a lot but not that should
be read. It's a dude, it's a great I believe,
but I'm not great. There's a lot of great albums
I will never hear. Yeah, add that to the list.
He's a good live performance to there there should be
read is like there are a few of like the
SoundCloud rappers that grew up and that like are still
making great influential stuff and like Trippy Red is I

(58:35):
think he's just he's easily his aesthetic is easily uh mimicked.
And then so it's Takashi. So it's were coming up.
They were like frest at one point. Yeah, they made
that that song with their that crazy video where they're
in the fucking desert with um flare guns. And then

(58:56):
you got which Icy knock old these guys just having
an aesthetic that you can just create. Yeah, they were
trying to go for like the SoundCloud rap face tatoo aesthetic.
Thats because it's because you're trying to get the kids. Yeah,
the kids don't care about Drake, Like, but the kids
do care about Drake though, that's what they adults care
about Drake. No, but I think the kids what kids
care about Drake because like Drake still is like a

(59:17):
brandfather to these kids. He is, but he's still dominates
the conversation. Like he's still like when I was making
TikTok's right, whenever Drake would drop those ships with pop
you know, because I've got a bunch of adults on TikTok. No, dude,
the my average my average viewer base is younger on
TikTok that it is on Instagram, because Instagram is like
a it's a it's like a clap of people that

(59:40):
know me personally, you know, real life friends, you know,
um pouring over you. Guys. Don't have to keep emphasizing, wow,
you're mad. I don't came in here with a backup. Bro,
I don't see you outside of those things. You'll never
invite me out. I've never what you You stay on
Instagram posting, you know, photos of you at like little
shin digs. I'm working, you know what, that's your planet

(01:00:02):
that's diable. Yeah, I'm not a planet that's diggable. You
guys can't see me. But if you guys, don't invite
me out, the next time you guys have you all
real friends meet you want to if you want to
throw me on the list like your industry friends party
on your weekly show on Comedy Central, you know with

(01:00:23):
Charlemagne the guy, he another bald nigger just like me,
another short another short king and the short bald king
just like me. All right, if any think we should
just have a good day where I just like sitting
for him and no one even knows you can tell
the difference people be well, no, you're way more politically correct. Yeah,
and he's darking that would be to giveaway. Yeah, he's
also No, I was gonna say sick. No, I was

(01:00:45):
gonna say he was a better interviewer than me. If
I'm not gonna say that, I think I'm a better
interviewer than he is. No, I don't think so. I
think so. I think I think he's got more than
I have think think on god it, man, he's different. Man,
he's different. Does he sitting in front of somebody? I
gotta I gotta be confident about No, you would be honest.
I know, I gotta realistic. But he's confidence. But confiden'll
get you fucked up every time. Mecca was confident, even

(01:01:07):
the first time. Even the first time Kobe met Jordan,
he said the first thing he said to him was like,
I'll hit you up one on one. Let's go right now.
So yeah, will yeah, alright, so he cut you guys
a good friend. Y'll keep getting into these side conversation.
So whatever, let's wrap. No, no, no, no, yeah. Because

(01:01:27):
Capital Charlomagne's is a better interview than I am. Because
Capital did uh, Capital did they did um announced, they
did a whole announcement of how their ending ties. I
just want to read it because it very funny to me.
CMG has severed ties with the f and Mecca Project
effective immediately. We offer our deepest apologies to the black

(01:01:49):
community for our insensitivity and signing this project without asking
enough questions about equity and the creative process behind it.
We think those who have reached out to us with
constructive feed back in the past couple of days your
input was invaluable as we came to the decision to
end our association with the project. So here's the thing.

(01:02:10):
I will say that the main thing that Capital fucked
up one if we just googled, we offer our sincere
apologies of the black community. I wonder how many times
we would see that statement from many different people. My
crashes sever right, and to like what they mentioned is
like the creative process of equity. When I spoke with
Dudley Devil Spencer from the AI folks, like how to

(01:02:32):
like do this ethically is like he would say, like,
it needs to be clear what went into the creation
of this character. It needs to be you need to
see the whole pipeline. I want to see the goddamn
whiteboard meeting where y'all were figuring out Okay, this is
what we're gonna put who is on the lookbook. It
needs to be all that needs to be there needs
to be laid out before we and as you introduced

(01:02:53):
this character into the world. I also feel like it
would have been a little more digestible if they went
with somebody we were already familiar and loved. I mean,
what do you mean using Kyle like they had like
Dr dre part of it. I'm saying involved in the creation.
The problem is that the thing is they were trying

(01:03:14):
to go with like they're trying to break in my
kind of like the Weekend, Remember when the Weekend was
getting broken inn s super like we don't know who
this is. They were trying to like make they weren't
trying to make a spectacle, but then they made a spectacle.
And the thing is like what I feel like, it's
my story coming out last year like kind of blew
their cover and they just pushed it a year because

(01:03:37):
they thank you. Because fn Mecca's posts have slowed down
over the past year. And something that Jarvis Johnson noticed
yesterday when I was talking to him, when I was
like engaging with FA when I posted my story that
came out in a fas TikTok at nine point five
million followers and now has ten million, so that that

(01:04:01):
account isn't growing at all. Right logically, if it was,
it feels like now they did so they had already
had this agreement. It feels like this is a hunch.
I don't know if this is true, but it feels
like they have this agreement ready and I came out
with this and they were like, it's like, yeah, like
I came. I came out with it and they were like,
I was pulled it back and then hopefully everybody forgets,

(01:04:21):
which they did, damn. But see and that's why. Okay, alright,
so now I know that call is a black guy,
so I can't say that they did the N word
on purpose to trigger us. But it's things like that,
is that just how easily, how easily swayed we can
be Ye, we'll forget about it. Then the next minute

(01:04:42):
we're outrage again. But then we're gonna forget about this.
Another great um young young black voice and this ship. Um.
I feel like on you know, similar trajectory of Jack
is a dormati pongo my homeboy. Yeah, he does MTV news,
he said on Twitter yesterday that just MTV news Key
is a staple on that chap they love him, which

(01:05:02):
I love for him. Um, but Dormantee yesterday said, do
you not understand or a part of the rollout? Yeah,
the enraged black people is a part of the rollout
and that's why I was like, oh, the N words
literally dips. But the thing is, But the reason why
I feel like I both agree with it and don't

(01:05:24):
because I feel like those songs with the N word
in it are so old. None of their new music
has the N word in it, right, Like they took
it out of this like you know they is my part,
which leads back to my question. But it's no because
it because it previously had this stink to it, Like

(01:05:47):
I'm not going to be down with somebody that like
did something like I'm not gonna be down with the
character a our character that like as it's as it began. Right,
it's a character as its character as it began was
a complete black stereotype. Right, they use the N word
and like it was being flipping about police brutality, right,
like in a human being can grow and change five

(01:06:10):
years like years, but like like like but like a
created algorithm that's like an artistic that's like kind of
like an artistic version of someone else. That's like, oh no,
like that, especially when you're trying to posit it as
like a real thing. Alexa can't go and get a
sudden accent, because that's the thing, right to try to
posit fn Mecca as if it was a real person. Right,

(01:06:33):
every time they engage with little mikaylaor whatever, like they
want you to think that they're real people, right, So
like if this real person that's not a real person.
Previously as songs using the N word when it's created
by non black people, voiced by a black person, it was,
but it was a black person saying the N word,

(01:06:54):
but it was sanctioned and created by white people. And
then they cut that black person out of the process.
Stop saying. But it doesn't matter. They still they still
have to ship on a black person to get here,
to get people. That's the whole music industry, the industry.
But if we're able to get this w right here

(01:07:14):
on this, if we're able to get this scalp on this,
that's great. I'll take the scalp where I can't think that.
I think there was other things we could have put
this focus on. I mean, I mean, I love it
for you because it was something you Yeah, I love
this for myself, but I think the overall thing where
you had industry blackout speaking on it and you know,
making all these demands and threats, I was like, for what,

(01:07:35):
But I I we could use all this energy, all
this energy we use for the past two weeks. The
reason why I fought with that is because, like, when's
the last time you heard of industry black out besides
the Black Square, right, Like, but that's their fault and
there's a bunch of industry blackouts, industry black I'll shut up,
but no, I look, look, I agree with you. What

(01:07:57):
I'm saying is like I agree with you, Like there's
so many other things that we could be focused on,
right Like Joe Biden just like canceled a bunch of
student debt, Like I'm so excited for that. Like, there's
so many things that we could be focused on, just generally.
But I feel like to get this scalp right now,
to cut, to nip this in the bud, to make
it so that the next label that tries to do
this knows that it's going to sting or that they

(01:08:19):
have to do it better or you know, they have
to rethink how they were going to do it. I
feel like that's a win. We should take all the
wins we could get because, like Lyla said, that's just
the music industry, right, and that's the truth. So at
least like when they try to that's just the music
industry with a fake character. You know, let's get this
win with this fake character, even though they're screwing over
a bunch of human beings every single day. I don't think,
you know, I think, I think, I think, I do

(01:08:40):
not think this is but for me, at least, it's
a super win for my boy, and then you know,
you congrat Yeah, maybe y'all, maybe y'all can book me
a week in advance next time. Of course, not just
the what if you know, you know right, but as
you know, job, um it's the second time. Man, So

(01:09:01):
you're you're you understand. Every episode we asked a question
and we do our best to answer it. So I
want to ask you today's question. Should that should f
and Mecca just have been a grand f Auto character
and we we have been okay with him living there
instead of being signed to a label. Yes, if if

(01:09:22):
they if they if It was a video game called
Cloud Fighter and f and Mecca was one of a
slate of characters. And then he explained to me how
they thought of this character right, and as long as
it didn't use the N word at all, like in
any of when he like want you like, yeah, nig no,
But I said, I just said, as long as he
didn't use the N word at all, I'd be totally fine.

(01:09:45):
I'd be totally fine with it, because it's like, it's
not trying to create rap music. It's not trying to
create this music that like, you know, so you hated
Paper the Rapper, so you hated him, if I'm correct,
was a video game vidame, but he had he was
a he had We know what that we didn't have
the same language to engage with it then as we

(01:10:08):
do now. You know, a two D character, and like
you know, all these conversations that we're having now, like
are all there are built off of the backup conversations
that we had, Like there were people that I'm sure
there were people that like weren't into part Wrapper the Rapper,
And I would love to know the equity. I didn't
do enough research on it on part I played. I

(01:10:28):
didn't have a PlayStation. That's why I didn't. I didn't
have a PlayStation, so I didn't play it. I had
an aintend of six before right, my house only had
one game system if any right, so you know, but
then after that I got them all. Yeah, yeah, you
know million. Maybe it was no TikTok. You what you want? Yeah,
you get paid and you get paid nothing for it though, nothing, Dude,

(01:10:49):
I don't believe it. Not the thing you Honestly I
was talking to don't if you know. Kofe says, Yeah,
being a short form video content creator is very difficult because,
like I gotta like because you compete eating and this
is like a tangent. I'm sorry, d block, but calling
him block, Hey sign them up these h you're being
a short form hip hop. Being a short form content

(01:11:11):
creators very difficult because, like you have to you have
to post your content on five different places, and all
these places are actively competing with each other. So when
they suss out that your content was posted elsewhere, they
kind of deep they dumb your ship down, Like so
the way Instagram will destroy your video if if you
have the TikTok watermark in it right, So like me,

(01:11:34):
like I make videos that are ninety seconds, but YouTube
shorts it's only a max sixty seconds and Snapchat, spotlight
or whatever. So you have to upload it in like
five different places, you know, and you have to like
be active on all of these five places. You know.
It's it's difficult. It's it's really fucking difficult. And you know,
the one place I gotta play attention to more touched
too is YouTube. But because like YouTube shorts, you should

(01:11:58):
be uploading these YouTube shorts. Make sure this because like
YouTube shorts, is the easiest way to gain subscribers, because
YouTube is the best place to build a community, to
talk a ship for community, because what happens is like TikTok,
It's like people watch one video of yours and then
move on and then if it doesn't fit the niche,
they never see a video again. So I got I
gained seven thousand followers, awesome, big whoop. But it doesn't

(01:12:19):
mean ship because those people may never see my content
ever again after they followed me. But subscribers like you're
more often to see their stuff and because like YouTube's,
YouTubers are more often engaging with it via like a
computer desktop, like they're like, it's better to build community,
and then you turn down into Twitch and you know, Um,
I started streaming again. I was on a job Johnson's

(01:12:40):
Twitch stream yesterday and I missed. I missed being in
front of an active chat and um, streaming is just
a great way. It's like it'll pay you good money too.
It just takes a lot out of you. And but anyways,
being a full time content creator like I am right now,
Like it's just really difficult. It's a really long thanks, thanks, thanks,
It's last thing. Guys want to just hit up real quick.

(01:13:02):
So we talked about this being an embarrassing moment in
hip hop, and I just want to go around the
room very quick answers rapid Fire in the history of
hip hop, this FN Meco story all throughout something else
that happened. You say, if this, if F Mecha is
worse than or not as bad, If it's worse, then
so he's gonna give us a scenario from hip hop,

(01:13:25):
and he wants us to answer for rapid firely is
it worse or is it worse than F and F
F and Mecca? Al Right, little Mama crashes, jay Z
and Way worse, little mama? What is worse? What is worse?
Little mama getting up on that stage? Okay, that's worse
than this story. Yeah? Wait, okay, right, next one? All right?

(01:13:49):
Uh um puff Daddy attacks Steve Stout over the hate
me Now video and f and Mecca is worse than
that hit him in the face of the bottle? Right? Wait? Wait,
what do you mean? Were you was hate worse? What was?
What was more egregious? Was more? No? What was more
embarrassing than that? Oh? And Mecca is more embarrassed in
that Mecca is not really our culture though, So I

(01:14:12):
don't I don't even claim it. Go ahead, go ahead,
crazy hope that Okay, Warren g makes penis enhancement commercials.
All right, that's way worse. That's way more embarrassing. That's
way more embarrassing. Oarranging. No, it's not. As a black man,
you're not supposed to be up there and talking about
dick and put. These kids listening to AI Technology Learning
school on the iPad are going to be a sexual

(01:14:34):
and not even having sex, not even interested in other johns?
Me what, it's an ice cream tattoo on his space.
That's not embarrassing. Like this. I think Mecca is more.
I think Mecca is more. It's it's embarrassing from the
people that that that thought to sign him, that thought
to do it, in my opinion, and the last one

(01:14:57):
and the most well, very notorious one, Kanye West interrupts
Tayles West winning all that moment that that's that's one
of Kanye's greatest moments. It goes for me, it goes graduating,
it goes releasing, college dropout, releasing late registration, interrupting Taylor Swift.

(01:15:21):
Those are the greatest moments in Kanye How you how
do you go play Graduation like that? Man? Graduation is
such a great album. It's fourth fourth, It's I don't
I wouldn't cut it out all the wise guys, thank
you so much. I let him drink this early in
the morning to pop questions. Let's listen. Thank you so much. Yeah,

(01:15:41):
thanks for having me though. I appreciate your great many
no congrats and y'all success. Thanks seriously. You know you
can think about us, I know, but we can. I
can say you know you can think about us. We
got we got mass taken black and white dressing room photos,
right and like you are on like cable. So congratulations. Well,
first of all, than like the I don't feel that's equal.

(01:16:04):
You don't feels equal. I that was equal. I think
I think about you've given Nyla enough ship today. No,
I mean no, you didn't have to know that was
fine her credit. You see, Nyla and I are working
to become out of here friends. In order for me
to do that, I have to like me. You know,
you gotta, I gotta, I gotta always friends. How many

(01:16:24):
of us more beside as always guys thinks between It
makesure you share, like, subscribe, comment, Um, everything fucking Thursday
except for the next two weeks and Monday and Monday
on the What and Monday when the motherfucking what. Yeah,

(01:16:45):
and yo Jock, make sure you shout out your Graham
TI talks to It's all at Jam Morrell underscore junior
you know, full contact creators all the same. You gotta
get the underscore added. Um. Yeah, but there's there's no
other there's a junior taking. It's a whole thing. Um
and also, um, watch out from my photography. Haven't taken
some good ship until next time, guys, piece don't miss

(01:17:07):
an episode of The What Hip Hop Questions, Legends and
list Listen to subscribe on the Black Effect Podcast Network,
I Heart Radio, at or wherever you get your podcasts.
The What Hip Hop, Questions, Legends and List podcast is
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and our
executive producer is Darren Byrne and produced by A King