ItsTheReal and Blog Era Rap

This week Jeff and Eric from ItsTheReal join Nyla and Mouse to talk headlines, hip hop gate keeping and Blog Era rap. Tune in and comment in the socials below.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, guys, and welcome to the What hip Hop
questions like just list, I'm Nila Simone and I am
the man that puts the jocks juxtaposition Mouse Jones and
today on the What, we are joined by two friends
of mine, two really really good friends of mine? Are they?
One good friend of mine? One really really good friend
of mine and his brother. We are joined by It's

(00:24):
the Real Eric and Jeff. What's going on with my brothers?
Happy to be here. Thrills for you, guys, No, don't
be thrilled for me through Yeah what number? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Kobe this episode, I'm talking about what? Remember were you
on the list? The list? I don't know what list
you guys were talking about? The list that solidifies you

(00:45):
in this business? Fuck off? Congratulations. This is a big year.
This is a big year, and I'm loving that. Y'all
don't care. We can laugh with good but seeing you
get love and adoration have I love it. I was
honestly shocked. I'm like, I met you should do a speech?
Yeah speech here? Come on? Who you want to thank? Yeah,

(01:12):
let's get to think for two times. The guy, because
I'm his protege. I would like to thank for next
two times for allowing me to sit and interview him,
and the Breakfast Club for allowing me, you know, the
present that I am to be around or greatness. Yeah,
just to breathe, wait to start playing some music now
and then show violence. Yeah, we got a wrapper up.

(01:36):
She only wasn't umber twenty four. Don't get that longer speech,
but Jeff, yeah, you guys are about to switch up.
You're about to change the game up again. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
It's been an interesting pandemic. You know, we had this,
We had this five year run with a weekly podcast,
and then we were like, nope, time, we are no
longer going to have people just ethos. We are, no,

(02:00):
you're gonna have people come over to our apartment and
sit down and sharing the same air as us, and
when there's an airborne disease out there. So we were like,
you know what, let's do something that we truly care about.
Let's tell the story in a narrative fashion. So we
have a ten part podcast coming out called The blog Era.
We spoke to one hundred and fifty artists, executives, commenters,
you know, lawyers, lawyers, lots of people. Got five hundred

(02:22):
hours of original recordings, interviews with just everyone that really
played a part in the significant bridge between MySpace and
Napster and the streaming services. And so no one has
talked about this, no one has put context around it
until us, and the story is a roller coaster ride.
We can't wait for everyone to hear it. April nineteenth. Nice, Yeah,

(02:43):
thank you, thank you. Yeah, all right, we're gonna get
back to talk about a little deeper. Yeah, but yeah, Nyla,
let's talk about some I hate to work current events.
Well those are two words. I hate both of those
words put together. But yeah, let's talk about some hip
hop stories, some hip hop way to black it up stories. Wait,

(03:12):
let's talk about some news regarding our favorite culture. Okay, yeah,
let's do it. Um lead block. What's what we got
on deck? Number one? So number one is the AI
generated Kanye West and Kendrick stuff we've been hearing all
over for the past week. I met a Kanye West
song virtual Nixon was able to use AI to help
him sound like Kanye West. Honestly, it is so good

(03:34):
that anyone can get food by this. I got a
fan of see that's beautifulood, that's dark and twisted, but
I attacked the whole religion all because of my figments.
Foot was I'm thinking that was some bitch shit. I
lost some dedas, but I'm so geezy back in the kitchen,
man a machine. He's boys in the food just like him.
Feel how do you guys feel about as lovers and

(03:55):
lovers of AI AI? I say, sign them all. Every
time I see AI, I think alan as right, yeah,
every time I see it him Like, well, how do
you think he feels? Yeah? His rap career was also
short lived. About the jewels, jewels, Yeah, don't talk about Yeah,
Bubba Chuck could do whatever. Yeah, I know, he said,

(04:17):
Oh man, that was that was a rough That was
a rough month. You know, there's something in the water.
There's something in the water. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah it was good. That was good. I don't understand
why the AI artists have to get signed, Like why
can't you just make the music? Why you guys? I
don't know. I mean, okay, so the one guy dropped
from Capitol Records, and I'm sorry for not remember it's name,

(04:37):
but like there was a second one that got signed,
is that right? Yeah? Yeah, this is wild. Yeah, there's
been some AI rappers that are signed. Who's getting the money,
who's getting me? Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
What's the point of the label backing I guess the
creators or whatever, you know what. I think it'll be interesting,
especially with features like you can you don't have to
pay the guy. You know, you could make a song

(04:59):
featuring Ai Kanye. This is all horrifying, This is terrible. Well,
I mean, but that's the whole issue with the with Ai,
which is that like, you're you're getting the product. I
can't even say art. You're getting the product, but you're
you're to talk about that. By a second, why do
you differentiate art and product? Because it's a program, Like
there's no actual heart or soul or thoughts or anything.

(05:22):
It's just taking other people's Uh yeah, it's an approximation
of what other people have done and then putting it
out into the world. The problem is that you are
then taking out people's you know, actual people and their
life stories, and like the consequences that come from signing
an actual artist, you know, good and bad. You know,
if you're talking about an artist who has drug problems

(05:44):
or goes to jail, or has family issues, yeah, anything, man,
and so like you're you're you're sidelining all of that
just to have a money making machine, quite literally, and
you know what, like AI gives you quote unquote what
you want, right, It's like, I want to hear Kendrick

(06:05):
rapping on that Kanye beat. I want to hear you know,
Jay rapping in this style, and it's just like that's
inauthentic and it's not what I want. For the past
two days, all I've been listening to is the Currency
and JD project. Right. Yeah, it's meaningful because like I
didn't know what it was going to sound like, I
didn't know what he was gonna say. I didn't know
how it was going to feel, and I love it

(06:25):
because it just it feels right to me. Well, also,
there's like a history with both of these yeah people. Yeah,
it's yeah, right, it's not just a made up thing. This.
You know, Currency actually wrote a song called Jermaine Duprie.
Jermaine heard it, they linked up, and then they were like,
this seems right, let's keep creating. That is what I want.

(06:46):
It is scary. It's scary even outside of like just
the music. I feel like art has been dying in
music for a long time. So this is gonna be
like the final nail and the coffin for it. If
it does, you know, proceed as it does. But even
down to like Donald Trump getting fake arrested with the
AI video, like yeah, yeah, like this is this is

(07:07):
some serious shit. Like I said before, if this is
the way, guy that comes a lot, If this is
the way Terminator happened, we deserve it. We really were sorry,
what do we deserve? I do not deserve it. I
still like it. It's because I download an m P
three's that can now let be the Saraka of the

(07:30):
next terminating Wow, she's too low on the list. You're
saying that you want to Yeah, so fucking silly. And
other news, Drake is releasing a song with a sample
of Kim Kardashian. Wait, this is real Drake, Okay, just

(07:53):
to come too far? Not be happy? That was the
line that honestly, I thought that was a bar. I'm like, Kim,
you got a bar. Who's who's to say that's really
to go against Kanye. I don't know if everybody like
that's tough their entire history? Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, Drake
actually on the on the twenty one collaboration talked about.

(08:16):
He was just like, I didn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
on the Circle Loco whatever record that is. I know
he said he did it for J Prince. I did it,
by the way. I just I just want to throw
this in. I know this is not like specifically on topic,
but you mentioned J Prince. So we were in Texas
and we went to Bundy's surprise. We have to check in,

(08:42):
We have to check in. That was it amazing? Amazing, amazing, honestly,
like to to you know, to eat trill Burgers. That's right. Yeah,
that's the biggest part, Joe Burgers nod. So to surprise
our friend, to celebrate our friends, to call him our
friend is like the biggest honor and it was really
really special and a thrill to be a part of.

(09:05):
But um, Drake uh Kim, I did see the Drake's
dad put out a statement saying that it is not
a troll. Oh he has his mustache. Is I'm not
listening to speaking of Drake? Yeah. Donald Glover said in
an a GQ interview that This is America was originally
going to be a diss for Drake. So I'm wondering

(09:27):
what part of the song still was it the yea
yea yeah go away. I think it's when he says,
this is amic America, America, go back to the Canada.
I feel like I think that would be the most
uninterrupted Beef I've ever but it existed, like I did it?
Yeah did it? By the way, I'm with you mouse,

(09:50):
like so I know you guys, and I love I
love conflict, I love rat That would be one that
happened in like twenty thirt you guys missed it, Yeah,
but like something like that twenty year twelve did we
even know? It is crazy how the world has moved
on from this world shattering Beef Yon famous. Yeah, Childish

(10:16):
Gambino was on Community and so the whole thing was
that Drake was an actor who became a rapper, and
then Childish Gambino was Don Glover who was trying to
become a rapper as well, and so people were comparing
the two and it became a thing. Um, Kim, there
are people dying. Yeah, true? Like what I hope that

(10:41):
we all continue to quote the Kardashians throughout this entire
That's really all I could think of, like people, Yeah,
and you got the argument over who who wants to
be a hell? Who? Jay did it first? Shut up?
Ice Cube did it before? All you shot? Are you
just naming people who would beef with soldier boys like
um should have been on the list? I am on

(11:03):
the list, but the I don't want to talk about
the list no more. Oh god, that's what you made it? Yeah?
But yeah, but like Donald Glover and and Drake, there
could only be like one sort of like you know, yeah,
I don't know emotional for what I will say if

(11:26):
that is what not? If that? So, going off of
what Jeff said, I can understand that the beef stemming from, well, y'all,
shut the funk up about this the Internet, the Internet.
That's what I can understand that. That's how a lot
of like conflicts start, right if the Internet saying this
Internet and that somebody getting with of it and it
being in their feelings. Yeah, like those two, like it's

(11:48):
so different. The only rat beefs I typically enjoy are
ones that I'm like, there's an element of danger here.
What if these two see each other? It's fucking on? Yeah,
beach two s each other? Yeah? Why is he pointing it? Us? Said?
These two? Because the fuck is known for beef. We're

(12:10):
talking about it off camera. Yeah, I don't want to
get into it. By the way, when Jay and Nas beefed,
you were there, We cut off. NAS didn't never listen
to him until they reconciled in two thousand and five.
And this is why we're truly friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
what was it? Nas? What was it Nas? At that point,
listen was the hardest song in that be I don't

(12:31):
know what that is not true? And this is the
problem with white people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's in other
news this week. Congressman our friend of the pod Congressman
friend that Drake is really trying to read incite this
beef for Kanye, even though we all know Kanye. Yeah, yes, yeah,
he's a petty He's a petty man, even though we

(12:53):
all know Kanye is ill. That's the reason why I
feel like you wouldn't do it. No, you think, oh, oh,
you're banking on Drake's morals. Yeah, you should probably stop
looking for morals and for millionaires. Yeah. When people get
to a certain place, I feel like they just they
need something else to keep them going. And so he's
just like and I also feel like like Drake didn't
start this beef, so it's up to him to have it.

(13:15):
He wants to keep it going. Kanye, in my opinion,
Kanye started this shit. So now he's like, oh, you
thought this was done on some level. I like that's
a good impression, by the way. Yeah, I know, I
enjoy the pettiness of Like remember when he was like
he was talking about like you know, their neighborhood and

(13:35):
like circling around the block or whatever and sort of
like giving directions as to like so creative. That was
very fun. He's just so much He's so much more
creative and fun in these things, so that even down there,
like leave Drake alone. That's why I tell people just
leave him alone, because if you give him a chance
to be petty, he's going to do it. Like even
going back to me a world tour, it was so simple.

(13:56):
It was great. And we look back at it now
and you're like, that's not like we look at that
now kind of like old people look at like run
DMC like it was saying shit, but it was at
a moment it was good. Yeah, Like that was so fun. Yeah,
Jay and Nas said some foul shit, right, said some
shit that you could hear in anybody's lunch. Sure. Sure. Wow.

(14:19):
By the time that Drake and Me came around, it
was based around memes, right, yeah, Like the OVO fest
was like just shown memes. That was amazing though he
was charged up. Yeah batteries. Yeah, you're you're silly. It
was great. Um. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green, who's in town
Donald Trump's indictment and friend of the pod Congressman Jamal Bowman,

(14:42):
got in her ass a king, can you play that
clip of Jamal Bowman and held accountable? Get out here,
Congress sire that bowment that I was born and raised
in New York City. This is the city that I love.

(15:05):
It's a city focused on hard work and love for
old people. We will never accept hateful rhetoric in our city,
any rhetoric that is divisive, any rhetoric that uplifts white supremacy.
We are pushing back against that. In all his fams
much are we, Taylor Green, he's a take her back

(15:26):
to Washington and do something about gun balance. You do
something about affordable housing, do something about childhood poverty, do
something about party chase. Do your freaking job. MONTREI Tailor
Green you'll need to be in New York City talking
that nonsense. Go back to your district. God, what are
you doing here? She'll say, rest in peace? Combat Jack.

(15:47):
This combat Jack's oldest son right there. He's he's running
for office. Still no, what does he have? He was
also part of the crew of the Democratic Continue to
see that was getting in her ass. So don't bring
your ass around here now right. Let Trump get locked
up and by himself. Don't come your ass up here
talking about Tupac. And you know, maybe there's like Tupacs,
but the rest of the people that they they were,

(16:09):
they were they liked him to Mandela maybe like Tupac. Yah. Yeah.
Marjorie Taylor Green on the way she was in the
van or something, yeah, and she was like it was
like veterans, I'm not gonna watched. I'm not gonna lie
to you. It was very hip hop like it was
a shaky video. She's in the back of like this

(16:30):
somebody was shotting World Star like this was like, I know,
you guys are doing a blog that's vlog. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's right. Marjorie Taylor Green's uh backseat interview was
up there with like ghost face against a like y'all
cut the fatol Like if they would have dropped some

(16:52):
gunshots behind it, I would have thought it was, oh
my gosh, where are you just painted that pictures? I'm
just telling you what was on there. I didn't paint anything,
but that's what they said. Yeah, so you want to
mouse was just out at uh ass Romania. Oh yes,
that was weekend right in LA. I didn't know. And
and you love a conflict, right, love it. But like

(17:13):
you know, if you're if you're dealing with like two
congress people going at it, you're here for it. I'm listen,
Jamal Bowman. He wins that one. Absolutely, He wins that one.
Chio came in with the steel chair, the beautiful Taylor
greet your what did you handful? For forty five indictment?
That's indictment. She thought there would be more support there

(17:35):
than that was. Fuck New York please. She knew there
cameras there, That's why she's here. Yeah. Yeah, I don't
know what she thought if she thought there's gonna be
more not in New York City. I saw this afterwards,
like she apparently she went on like Fox News or
one of them, and she was just like New York
smells there's rats or whatever, and I'm just like, you
don't get to say that. Yeah, we get to say that.
I did get you, like, oh, you're supposed to be

(17:57):
more support, bitch, this is New York. Yeah, Trump supported
the smarter than that. Yeah, well they stayed as inside.
Tweet their support. They don't do thet tweet their support
famously January six, they tweeted their support. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
the wanted the Trump support. Have you ever seen anybody
in like, have you ever seen anybody in the Make
America grade han hat only? Yeah, we saw somebody in

(18:22):
like Times Square. Yeah, it's always like a weird like
what are you trying to accomplish your sort of thing?
I don't see that much in New York. I see
it a lot in DC and the sticks of New York,
up state New York. Oh yeah, that's nuts. In twenty
twenty three seeing it, it's crazy. Yeah. Also, never liked
the hats that sort of like played off it like
hate Make this great again? Yeah, yeah, let's not. But

(18:46):
I do agree that we should make trap Grady. What
if we make the list great again? It's already great
speaking of these now it's great. Speaking of the list,
we've talked about the list. Nyla made it, she made
the complex. Yeah, amazing, But we're also here with two
hip hop listensonalities you know who that's what you call

(19:09):
my friends who play the story. I'd have been in
the game for a long time, and like, what do
you guys think about these lists that come out and
what's your your initial thoughts about these kind of like
lists list. Well, with all due respects, I think it's
great when you make it. I think if if the
point is just to like stir shit up and like
cause a conversation, I don't really the name of the

(19:30):
show is, uh the what hip hop question legends end lists. Yeah,
but it's a very long name. Well to that, I say,
what No, But like, but like, look, so Jeff and
I've been around for a long time. There was a
point in our lives where we're like we're putting all
of our efforts, all of our time, all of our energy,

(19:51):
all of our money into like making our career happen. Right,
so you take odd jobs to like pay the rent.
And yes, we were part of like during complexes like heyday,
working on lists, so they would be like top fifty
hip hop beats, and so Jeff and I would write
all these blurbs, blur like they would set the order
and we would just like do blurbs. And then you know,

(20:13):
people they put out their top thirty five rappers over
thirty five, like just they would because they knew that
people were going to read them. They were going to
click on the next page and the next page. You
after about whoever else doesn't in the It wasn't like
you know, at this level, or like Joel wasn't at
this level. It caused all this conversation and like, okay,

(20:35):
I get it to a certain point, but those people
feel so passionately about it. You saw like Elliot Wilson
was mad that he was number eight, right, Peter Rosenberg
was mad that he was number sixteen and not number
like whatever, like I should be at this point and
not this point. So now, Nyla, I guess the sort
of camera goes to you and says, are you mad
that you weren't higher on the list. Yeah, no, Kobe, Okay,

(21:00):
this is cool. But also, like I said earlier, the
way they wrote the list, like I'm sure when you
guys wrote the blurbs, you guys actually put thought in
like research. Yea, So we were never we were never
involved with like the rankings. We were just like writing.
But the crazy thing is it goes like you know,
the byline was like Jeff Rosenthal and Eric Rosenthal, and

(21:20):
we would get all the flak when people were just
like you should have ranked me higher, or I shouldn't
be on this list, or that's right yeah basically, and
it was just like by the way, years later, years later,
people would like kill us for like, oh, well you
wrote about me and this thing. It's like, if you
understood the mechanisms of how these lists worked, then you
wouldn't be angry. Then you wouldn't be mad at us,
you wouldn't be Yeah. Well the thing is that's it's

(21:43):
only they're only as powerful as much you give them power.
That's not how you say it, but that's what I mean.
You know, I'm say, yeah, I know, I haven't spoken
in three years listening. Yeah, so you currently listen to
the What Hip Hop Questions Legends and list will be
right back after this break. You got to start with

(22:06):
podcasts for you guys, like how did it start for
you guys? When when was your real entry in oh Man,
So two thousand and seven is when we started. No,
he goes even before that. Oh okay, So I met
Jeff when he came home from the hospital. Yeah no,
but uh yeah yeah, yeah we're brothers. Uh. I was
a film major. I thought it was gonna be a

(22:27):
future film writer and director. Um, life is not a
straight path, right, So when I got out, like, you
gotta figure your own journey and take your own path
or whatever, and mine led me to the aforementioned Kanye
West right went in two thousand and four, and then
I and then I got to know them and they
hired me to document him and I went to the
two thousand and five Grammys with him, and from there

(22:49):
started working with people like Jim Jones and Miss Elliott
and a lot of lot of your Scott and and
so yes, uh, that showed me the behind the scene.
That was me, That was all me. But I saw
what laid behind the curtain, and I was like, you
know what, I bet I have something to say about
like all this stuff. I have a perspective that no

(23:09):
other people are hearing. And so Jeff and I, after
he graduated college, linked up to create It's the Real
and that was a sketch show, and so every Monday
morning for three and a half years you could count
on new content from us on YouTube, right, And so
we developed that we became these guys around town who
everyone like thought of and you know, looked to to

(23:31):
create new stuff. And so we worked with everybody from
like Cameron and like the Clips, Slaughterhouse, and you know,
we would do like these online like we made rappers
who at that point they had no avenue to be
funny on the internet. We allowed them the platform to
do that, and so that was yeah, and so it
became this thing that evolved over fifteen years where we're storytellers.

(23:53):
So whether it's the podcast, the original music, the TV
show that we sold, whatever it was, and ultimately the podcast,
it was like, let's tell stories in a new inventive
in different way and give this platform, you know, to
the people. And so that's that's where we were. And
it's interesting that like we do this thing about the
blog era now, right, we've been work in the last

(24:14):
three years on telling the story of not only the
artists of that time, but the people behind the keyboards
who gave them their platform. And so they're people like
Escay from na Right or or miss Info from Missinfo
dot tv or you know Mecca and show No Boys,
and and on and on haf from on Smash. All
these people who created a platform, they gave us that
platform too. So it's the real doesn't exist if ESKA

(24:37):
doesn't give us that cosign because we weren't you know us,
We weren't looking for like, you know, an agent or
to try to be on a television show. We wanted
to create our own thing. And because there was that
comment section, those people in NA Right, that's who we
wanted to please. And Esca was our gatekeeper. So where

(24:57):
before there was Hot ninety seven Power one of MTV
b et, those are the gatekeepers. Then it became like
these people that we want to impress, and that's where
all the attention went. So because because of all these people,
you know, who were just doing this passion project on
their own, we got to be a voice in this
culture that we loved so much, which which is crazy

(25:19):
because like we grew up listening on Friday nights to
Hot ninety seven Ladies Night or like you know, like
funk Master Flex or you know, Case Sleigh and green
Land and all these people, and you never thought that
we would ever ever because there was a remove, we
would never ever be in the same rooms as them.
And then it's like you create your own thing. The
attention goes to you, and eventually you as a creator

(25:41):
in that time. We've always spoken about like that space grown,
like coming up there was always a space and then
they got small and eventually got small and small and
small to where it's at now, where it's like, well
maybe it's a barrier entry too low. But like coming
up in this where there was such a space, did
you guys in real time start to see it shrink

(26:03):
for yourself, like seeing how okay, well now we get
this opportunity. Well not that barrier gets a little small, Yeah,
and then you get another opportunity, Like did you guys
notice the barriers shrinking in real time? I think so.
I think that's like a you know, I think that
we saw the rise of social media and like we
understood what that meant. Like that's why we stopped doing
our videos because we would see that the content not content,

(26:28):
I hate the word content. The videos that we were
working for in doing like a week on them, somebody
could do a joke on Twitter and it was like
whatever work we had put in, it just felt like
it had been devalued. And so I think that that
sort of speaks to the power of like not gatekeeping,
but it's just like there were just too many ways

(26:49):
that people could find you and do things and create,
and it's like, I think that's great for the society
at large in a lot of ways. I think that
people should have the ability to create and to be creative.
But for us in our career, it was like, oh,
we can't do the same thing that we've been doing
the same way. We have to switch it up to
we start doing the podcast. In two thousand and nine,

(27:10):
we uh, you know, did mixtapes. So we did mixtape
with DJ Drama, like you know, we just did other things.
If DJA Drama did a verses, do you think he's
playing records off for yas I ask you a question, Yeah,
is versus still a thing? Like everyone uses this thing?
Apply Yes, I apparently know because they haven't put out
any episodes. You're saying, you're saying, well on schedule for

(27:35):
next year, and they're doing next year. I thought it's
the summer. The summer the last thing I thought it
was gonna be in Atlanta this summer. We know, you
know when this imaginary thing is. They're changing it from Atlanta.
I mean, you got two guys with their own they
could be raver at this point going to watch it?

(27:55):
Can it still be trailer? Agree? But although I heard
that they might not. Who said that that was? Someone
said that it wouldn't be recorded. It would like you
had to be there. Oh that would be fine. I'd
be crazy. That's how it should be. That's that's how
it should be. But then they're missing out on the dollars.
I will say when when Dip set and the Locks

(28:17):
did there, I was following you guys played by play, Yeah,
and it was it was amazing how much you knew
what was happening behind the scenes with Locks and how
prepared they were for that. Wait, sorry, are you they're
saying that we our our feed was great. It was
great because I feel like our our content was content. Sorry, yeah,

(28:37):
I feel like our feed was great. Yes, So yeah,
we were. It's it's funny because uh, we had we
were we were at Mad Square Garden. We were like
in it. We did know a lot of the behind
the scenes stuff and we were tweeting about it. But
it's one of those things where the service is so
bad that you don't know if anybody's even like, you know,

(28:57):
seeing this if they're going through Twitter algorithm in naw,
so you don't know that you could tweet five minutes
ago and instead at the bottom of some ice page
really an hour the tweet from an hour ago at
the time. Yeah, So all I know is that I
was like just caps locking everything and just typing like
as much as I could, just because it was so
exciting and it's so in the moment and you hope
you know that you convey that. And I didn't know

(29:19):
that anybody even was. Yeah, another one. I don't think.
I don't think it's something I should die. Maybe it
shouldn't have been. It's just we could get one a
year to a year. Were you in the rehearsals though,
for the locks, like leading up to that, No, we
were on phone calls, facetimes, uh, strategy sessions, strategy sessions.
But I think that it was like something that again

(29:41):
it's it's wild to to to see that develop, but
we still watched it like fans, right, and it was
like it was like a heavyweight match and it just
felt like the energy in the room was so against them, Yeah,
until it turned and then they were for them, And

(30:02):
so that was exciting to watch to experience. So as
much as like we would give suggestions or we understood
what they were like, you know, aiming to do, to
see it executed is like, whoa, this is crazy. And
then when we talked to them afterwards, they were like, hey,
we did it right, and we're like we we did
do it. Yeah. Yeah. So Jim Jones, if you're listening, um,

(30:23):
Eric and Jeff, we should we LOA. My thing is
that we love Jim. I saw that Jim and Jada
had agreed to do a rematch, but I don't know
that you can replicate that first thing. Yeah, I think
Jada Kiss right now, he's got that. He's got it.
Jada Kiss is on State. I think people are gonna

(30:43):
pay attention, especially after that yeah performance. Yeah, but I'm
just saying that, like, yes, the there would be a
lot of like excitement going into it, but I feel
like it won't be the same. It won't be the
same Jim verse jadabout one on one. No, I think
it's like again, Dip said versus the Locks something, but
we still need that ready. If it's one of those

(31:05):
things like it would have been if the Locks would
have lost, then I would have been interested in seeing
a round two if they would have lost. There is
no round twos if they're gonna do it like that
where we keep seeing the same people change the bracket.
Yeah right, exactly right, exactly exactly the same people, so
like they would go against somebody else. Yeah, But you

(31:30):
know what I liked about got to make the bracket.
You know what I like about Versus is that there
were two people ultimately who made the decision as to
like who was going to face each other, and it
was it was it was it was Tim and it
was Swiss. And it's like they are essentially the gatekeepers, right,
Like they could they could toy with the audience and
be like who do you want to see and people
would be like, oh my god, I want to see

(31:52):
Versus missing, right, and and they just be like now
we're good, or they you know, let them like think
that or whatever. But ultimately it was like, hey, we
have the final say because we have the taste, right,
and we think we know what people want keeping because
like it's ultimately the public decision on these matchups. That's
I don't think that's true. I think so it's like,
what is your opinion on these things that are happening. Yeah,

(32:13):
like there's no clear It's like it's like a smack battle.
There's no I mean, you know, the populace ultimately says, wow,
this guy got beat, but there's no judge of saying
the winner was. Yeah, but that's afterwards, right, I'm just saying,
like to select them to participate in the first place. Yeah,
Like because it wasn't just anybody. Yeah, you're saying that,
like you know, I don't want to say anything, but

(32:35):
like a small rapper wouldn't be able to do this thing,
because yeah, but I think there was I think in
the beginning, yes, it was more up to Timis Swizz,
But after a while, I think Timis Swizz was just
watching the Internet and saying like, oh, we want like
DMX versus news in PDMX that was on the internet
for Mad Loan. They were like, oh, we want to
see DMX versus news. What do you think People were like, Yo,

(32:56):
we really want to see Isisley Brothers and Earth Winning five.
Yeah that was oh I think so. See I thought
for them, and they were like, Yo, we need to
make this happen for Easter. Yeah, yeah, yeah that's what
That's what I thought. But if we're gonna talk about gatekeepers, like,
we live in a time now where it's just like
anything goes right. How many songs get uploaded a day?
Sixty thousand songs a day, and that's there's so much

(33:19):
content out there now, there's ai stuff out there, Like,
there's so much out there. Who gets to decide like
that's just one or one of sixty thousand songs on
that day, but like who gets to decide what's what? Right?
And so, because we went through all this time where
all the sort of divides have disappeared and it's just

(33:41):
like yeah, one person gets hot that day, and that
person gets hot that day, and then it's on and on,
we never have this opportunity to really like invest in
an artist anymore, to like really like appreciate them and what. Well,
so I'm arguing, like four gatekeepers is my thing? Well,
I think it's necessary. It's agree the gatekeepers are necessary

(34:01):
to a certain degree. I just feel like there are
kids like that are coming up who spend their entire
day talking about like NBA, young boy or like you know,
have their entire day shaped by yet or whoever they
should touch grass. But like, but, but the their thing
is that like this idea of that our generation was

(34:22):
the last one to really like be able to appreciate artists.
It's like, no, because there are kids who appreciate their artists.
It's just that they're different artists. I think to say
our generation was the last generation to appreciate their artists,
it's a fair assessment if we're talking about overall, right,
you can look at today and see somebody who appreciates

(34:43):
their artists in a specific way, or even artists from
a you know, a different time in the culture. And
but that's an anomaly, Like these kids don't care, right, Like,
on average, the kids don't care. I think on average,
a lot more of us cared, because if we're honest,
no matter when we were born, we're we're ang about
in this whole you know, spectrum of this fifty year thing.
A lot of us are tweeners, right like you look

(35:05):
at the age between all of us here. We all
experienced and loved the same type of music. Yeah, even
like right, there was a connective tissue to all like
Nyla might have just Nyla might have just got deep
into Daylat, but she knew who Daylat was and appreciate
it that sound of music already. You get what I'm
saying sort of, But now you're starting to make the

(35:27):
same like argument that I started to hear when like
Little Pump came around, and then it was like, oh,
they're like these SoundCloud kids like nobody. There's no connective
tissue to the stuff that was before. And then Jay
Cole sat down with Little Pump and it's like, oh,
you know, actually, you know, we're not that far apart.
So like I think that the same sort of growing
pains happens every few years. But what's happening now is

(35:48):
that people still very much care about artists issues that
their timeline is so sped up. I'm curious if they
care about the art because they care about you. You
sat down with Blue Face right. Are people are listening
for his music or they're watching for his yea, it's
more of the story. Yes, everything around it. I will
say in regards to like the actual art, I think

(36:09):
music theory is just dead. So that's why AI can
need to teach critical music theory in school, they need
to teach critical music theory. Such a touch point. Yeah,
I record can drop and people will love it because
they're already used to trash music, like they've been programmed
to enjoy trash music. And also, I was talking about

(36:29):
this before. I was interviewing Glitter Gloss and she said
that she barely knew any of the Rihanna records during
the Super Bowl. She's old school. I'm like, damn, Rihanna's
old school. But I think, like Memphis, I don't know
what that means. They played Rihanna and Memphis. Where where?
Just tell me where they would play Rihanna and shout
out to our friends down in Memphis. Yeah, shout out

(36:52):
to cusses, shout out to everyone down there. I love
Memphish because I love I Just I'm not surprised that
she was not familiar with Rhannimy. I mean, I'm just
bringing up to say, like, I think there is a disconnect,
and it's just like in the I think disconnect to
exactly the Internet babies and how they digest music and

(37:12):
what music they're digesting. Because I grew up kind of
on the Internet too, but I still went back and
connected with older stuff. They're they're not doing that. It's
like feed me this today, and then tomorrow, feed me
that and then tomorrow. Who's to blame? The kids aren't
to blame. But wait, sorry, Unlike TikTok, for instance, songs
will come back like all the time, and so, like,

(37:34):
you know, I think that there's more of an access
point to like all this stuff now because it's just
sort of like noise or like grift grist for like,
you know, for them to just like ingest every single day. Well,
I think that's the important part. I think that's why
it's so important that these uh streaming platforms lean more
into the editors, lean more in the editorial work. All right, boom,

(37:57):
all right, we know we have all these songs. Sixty
thousand songs are coming out per day, we have, but
we do have this like if they do have a
commitment to the you know, the culture. Um, that's why
you got to lean in the editors, because then all
right here put out this playlist and then we'll put
out this playlist and lean lately like having listening to
Wrap Caviar like that like they were like five years ago.

(38:17):
I think so, I honestly don't that would be probably
the gatekeeper of today. Yeah maybe not. No, no, no,
take it. Yeah, these these labels are they're still trying
to get up there. They're still they're still sending bottles, bottles.
I feel like I can tell, though, which is why

(38:38):
I don't care to listen to it. Oh that's just
all the top forty all right, cool, let me go
to find something. Let me go find That's why I
said that. But that's why I said, we need to
link these stream platforms, need to lean more than the editors,
or it will be what we're saying just but I
think it's I think it's the same with everything, right,
Like once somebody can pinpoint what like the hot thing is,
then everybody flood that thing until we can find the

(39:01):
next thing to then break you know that thing. So
like we go from um, the rap caviar playlist, and
then like that becomes too crowded and it becomes like
way too many artists trying to get on this thing,
and so then the next one becomes that thing you know.
So yeah, but like okay, so, and I'm not even
being funny anymore, like you being on that complex, complex

(39:23):
list allow like you're in a position of power, right,
Like you get to be the person who's taste people trust,
So like do you have to like look at certain
artists and be like I want to talk to them.
I don't want to talk to them, And this is
what's meaningful for like a bigger picture and this is
how I want to smell my time. Well I've always
been that type of person anyway, but now you're being

(39:43):
recognized for it, right yeah as an editor, right, like
as a curator? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Does it make you
want to reconsider who you record with? I want to
save talking to Mouse because he has an opinion, whether
I agree with it or not. And it's done it

(40:06):
first few episodes of rough Guys, you're now listening to
the what hipop questioned legend to listen. We'll be right
back after the break. I want to bring it back
to the blog era. Yeah, when we talk about the
blog era, we had a conversation conversation about the blog
er yeah, last season, but it wasn't in parts. What

(40:27):
are the who are the artists that defined the blog? Err?
Oh man, I mean there's there's so many, Like there's
like too many. It's the point like for you know,
for us I think like the first ones to come
to mind, like whis Khalifa currency, Um, I take it
all the way to like Mac Miller wallet, Charles Hamilton,
um facts into the show. Yeah yeah yeah we'll take

(40:51):
We'll take two walle Yeah we had a third wallet. Yeah,
Like it's it's wild what what got created in that
like side downtown Don Kennedy. Um, but that that scene
that changed like everything, right because you had this this
and I love these artists, but like you had this

(41:11):
jay Z fifty cent DMX world that we all loved
and listened to, and then it's just like, oh, these
kids are gonna dress different, these kids are gonna sound different,
these kids are gonna active. Forgot to talk about that
when when talking about the blogout, did you guys go
into like just how important and into integral fashion was? Oh? Sure? Did? Okay? Yeah?
I mean you know, uh this Big Sean, we talked

(41:34):
to Big Sean. Yeah, so we talked to like so
many people. Uh oh, cool kids like influential you know. Um,
I think that they styled it entire generation and the
cool kids like I But I will say it to day,
the cool kids in WII styled in entire generation, big

(41:55):
facts yeady. No, they were saying. They were saying on
the Amazon show that DC never had any style, that
Air Force ones were made by New Yorkers, Job, Gabe
and Sweedy. Let's look at how they dress. I just
want to say, no, give me a second, let's look

(42:17):
at how they dress that. You said that, and nobody
listens to me. Like Rob dresses like Rob dresses like
his age, So we'll remove Rob. But yeah, Gabe dress.
I loved Gabe dresses like its laundry dead. I love
the boys. I'm just saying when they literally lives in

(42:42):
a sea rider, right, so you're gonna take their word.
Shout out to everyone's fashion choices. Yeah, yeah, I would
love to be on the rotation. But but like as
far as like DC goes and like Wallet, like Wallet
was such a game changer for his his air but
like it it translated way beyond sneakers. The sneaker community

(43:04):
owes Wi oh my god, yeah more than a few checks. Yeah,
like they owe it to him. I think here's what's
really important about like contextualizing this time and like really
diving deep into like who these people were when you
talk about Wallet as we do in one of the episodes,
like is it starts the episode with wallet Um. He

(43:27):
he far too often gets maligned for like, oh, he's
got all the stuff to complain about, or he has
this ego and he has you know, issues with this
that or the other thing, and people never talk about
like who he is or why he's gotten to this place, right,
and the influence that he's had. And I'm so proud
of the wallet part like in particular of this podcast

(43:50):
because it does give him his flowers and it does
show the world that, like, this is a man who
like whose influence carried on regardless of like whether people
want to admit it or whether he can sometimes you know,
acknowledge that himself. And so yeah, we spoke to so
many people, one hundred and fifty people for this thing
um and got perspectives that no one's really touched on

(44:12):
and no one's really brought to light. What made it? What?
What was the decision on a blogger? Was that something
that was already on the you know, like you guys
like so, I mean what happened was that we were
the pandemic happens and we were just like, well, we
can't invite these guests over to our apartment anymore, you know,
and their entourages, like it just didn't work. And so

(44:32):
we had done have that many masked people, you know, yeah,
unmasked people. What are we talking? We wouldn't let our
brother come over, like this is real shift Like we
were just like no, like like we don't know how
these things moving. We don't know like what the reality is.
Dan was like to laundry, He was like, why are
you not? He was like, I'll ride a bike, ye,
my laundry in the bask You don't know who you've

(44:53):
been around, Like we don't know, like who breathed on you,
Like we cannot have you over our apartment. But so,
you know, the the pandemic happens, and we were just like, well,
you know, I wanted to do something narrative. I wanted
to do a larger story. I was seeing that everybody,
every single person had a show, you know, French Montana
had an interview show, and it was just like why
are we like what is it? How do we separate ourselves?

(45:15):
And so yeah, and so we started think that I
think I said I wanted to a narrative project. Then
like the next day you were just like, if we're
going to do it, it has to be something we
care about and like know deeply about and so and
that was the blogger and like, honestly we wanted to
tell the story before like whoever vice did right, like
some of some outside or we were there, like we

(45:37):
grew up, We were in these circles, we were going
out with everybody who like so on the first day
that we even thought the idea, we just started like
hitting people up and I think we sent out like
probably like a hundred texts and got back like eighty
yes is immediately and it was just like but it's something.
It's something where we were like, this is absolutely going
to take two months. We'll just we'll do this and

(45:59):
we'll go in to the next three years later. Can
we can we can we go personal for a minute,
so you our friendship, you know, is bigger than this. Yo.
Seeing calling you guys, being on FaceTime, you know, being
in the moment of the pandemic, was like, YO, should
I really do this? I'm I want to do this,
and yeah, you guys just sharing with me like all right,
well we're doing this. Yeah, And then I remember my

(46:19):
FaceTime yall one day and y'all was in front of
the board. Yeah. Yeah, and then the board looked like
you know, because I wrote for TRL before. Yeah, So
I looked and I'm like, oh, not even motherfucker's what's
happening over there? And like the board is literally filled
with index car yeah, and I'm like, whatever's happening over there? Yeah,
it's about to shake shit the fuck. Like it was
a six foot by four foot board. Yeah, and you

(46:41):
live with that, like every single day. On the train
down here, I was just like, on your photos thing,
you can search for things. So I'm just like April six,
I was like, let me see what. And there's a
picture of the board April six, from like two years ago,
and it's in our living room, right, And so every
day we would walk in and we'd sit down and
have breakfast or like, you just look at this board

(47:01):
all day and you figure it out and you take
stuff down, you put stuff up, and you just talk
about about man and you and you you bring this
story to life. And so it was a lot of
like thinking, a lot of living with it. And so
because you're inside and by the way, then you know
when it was cool to get outside and take walks
and masks came around and people had more of an

(47:23):
idea of how this thing moved or whatever. Jeff and
I would take these like long walks through the city
and it was empty and you just like talk this out,
you figure it out, and then you get back on
the phone with people. And that's part of the beauty
of this time is that, like we could speak to
one hundred and fifty people or more on the phone,
and so it's right there. You have the conversations, you
can record the stuff. It's not based on oh, are

(47:45):
you available to come in at this time? Are you
in town? Are you like willing to talk about this?
It was just like we call currency and currencies like
of course I'll talk, like let's go. And then it
was just like Whiz and Mickey and you know, on
and on Chuck English and you get these people bun
b and a million zillion people who want to share
this thing because what is everyone doing but sitting at home? Right?

(48:06):
Was it always a podcast? Yes? Yes, now there was
no I mean yes, there will be like documentaries and
other things that possibly come from this, but like there
was just no way to do this thing in a
visual fashion. Um like you would have to spend your
entire life basically recreating this story and in visuals. And

(48:27):
I want to tell you and I want to promise
you this sounds nothing like any other podcast that you've heard,
Like nothing like it. This is a movie like when
you hear it, you know, what do they say, like
a theater of the mind. Right, It is completely that
you are the world. Yeah, you are like engrossed in
this thing. It takes you right back to that time, right,
And it was super important to us not just to

(48:49):
like sell out to anybody, you know. That's why I'm saying,
That's why I want to go do next. Boy do
we have a lot of conversations that I want to
talk to you guys about it next. Like one, thank
you guys for you even like y'all could have been like, oh,
that's what you're doing all you're doing this cool, but
like we every time we spoke, it was like two
hours of conversation, laugh and joke and talking about what
we're each doing each of these things. Specifically, the thing

(49:12):
that stuck out most when when you guys said you
would come on a show, I knew I want to
talk to you guys about the process of finding it. Yes, right,
because I've seen you know, immediately when the when the
when the announcement went out, and I've seen that you
guys were working with other tones. Yeah, I was like,
we found a home. Yeah, because for so long that
was a journey. I was such an issue. Can you

(49:32):
talk about that? It's just a bit like finding a
home for this with someone that believed in your project
as much you guys did. Yeah. I didn't get that
off a Wikipeda either, No, No, thank you knew that guy.
We have had a fifteen year career, right, And it's
not as much as like social media wants you to
believe whatever. And sure we're guilty of it too, Right.
You put up like the best looking pictures, you put
up like the celebrations, but it's not it's not always that.

(49:54):
So you got ups and downs, and in trying to
find the right partner for this, we did have a
lot of conversations, right, and we tried to think of
like what's the best way to present this, who's going
to have like our art in mind? How much do
we have to water this thing down? How much do
we have to like take this thing that's just been us? Yeah,
and and work with other people and try to make
that happen well, because for instance, like every single place

(50:17):
that we would talk to would be like one hundred
and fifty people is too many people. You can't tell it,
you can't tell that story. And so and I honestly
think that like one hundred fifty people is not enough.
So like there's there's so many more people you have
to talk to to like really grasp Yeah, like just
ye billion fans. Yeah, well we talked to commenters comments
because like, you know, anybody could be a fan, but

(50:38):
like to to interact with the blogs is like a
very you know, meaningful step that people took. So um.
But yeah, so like we we had to find somebody
who would respect the fact that we wanted to tell
a very big story that involves a lot of people,
even though it's not as many people as like could
be involved. But it's like you want it to be
a a an accurate, an evocative sort of picture of

(51:03):
the time. You can't have it be representative of everybody,
but you want to be evocative. And so we went
out to la for business. We sat down with our
friend Scott Vennor, who is partners with Farrell and we
were just catching up over breakfast over bagels, right, and
because we were the first ones that he filowed on Twitter,
like a million years ago, so everybody some friendships. We've

(51:24):
known each other for a long time, and we were
just talking about what we were up to, and he
was just like, well, privately, we started this new thing
and it sounds like something that we'd very much be
interested in. And for us, Farrell is not only like
a hero, right, but it's somebody who respects the art
and somebody who Without him, you don't get Mickey Facts,

(51:45):
you don't get Wallet, you don't get Jay Cole, you
don't get like all these people who that downtown Lower
East Side scene, the way everyone dressed, the way everyone
like took chances in their style. Now, by the way,
totally understand that, like, Farrell's not the first persons. He
didn't reinvent the wheel, like, but he came around at
the time that it's stuck with people and they were like, oh,
that's it now, you asked Farrell, and he'll tell you

(52:06):
like day La meant a lot to him and Premo
and like on and on and on. So it doesn't
start with Pharrell, but for us He's such a touchstone
for this time specific and to represent that as part
of our narrative for this was super meaningful. And not
only that, this is a way bigger story than I
think people even imagine. I think a lot of people
have hit us and they're just like, oh, well, I

(52:26):
hope you talked about this, and we're like, oh, we
talk about all this stuff right in a very complex fashion,
in a very like gripping and yeah, because because you
have to talk about like why this thing even was
allowed to exist and then why it doesn't exist anymore.
And like that's like a big story, Like you know,
that's that's touching on business, that's touching on um, you know, race,

(52:49):
that's touching on all these big things. Not even I'm
not being hyperbolic whatsoever. Now there's Jeff like this is
about the American dream. This about the American dream realized
and the American dream snatched away. Okay, And so like
for us too, it is a very black story. These
are these are a lot of young black people who

(53:10):
who created opportunities and then there were forces that came
in and took them away and left them at this precipice.
And to work with other black creators on this. You know,
Pharrell our story editor, are you know, like on on
and on and on down a fact checker like everything.
It meant a lot to us to like make sure

(53:31):
that this was done right and represented properly and gets
the the the full message across because you don't want
to screw that up. Yeah. You know when you have
artists like a J. Colo Whiz talking talking about the
blog error, Yeah, did you have any kind of pushback?
They didn't. They don't want to be defined by or
boxed in to an arrow or they think that they're

(53:52):
bigger than the blog error. I think that's proud of
the blog error. Yeah, um, I think that. Well, I
should say we didn't actually talk to J. Coole. We
did talk to people around him, but like we did
talk to Whiz and like, but yes, I do think
that there are some people who probably didn't participate because
they don't want to be defined by that time. There's
some people who used it as a platform to reum
introduce themselves. Um and so like you know, everybody has

(54:14):
their own agendas and you know that's fine, But we
were still able to tell the stories that we wanted
to tell regardless of anybody's involvement. Yeah, it did used
to be a pejorative, you know. People people were just
like a like a blog rapper, like but then at
a certain point it turned and people were like, yes,
I'm of a certain ilk, right, Like I I moved
a certain way, not like now or like not like

(54:34):
the people for me, and it was just like I
was different, and now it's cool to be a blog
rapper and to be of a certain time. And I
think that like, um, there's a lot of love and
certainly nostalgia that you see online every day. That's another
reason why we were just like, boy, we better like
get on this before someone else does, right, biggest rapper
in the world, Drake, Yes, you know, not right? Not

(54:54):
right dot com? Yeah, let me ask you all this
unless you guys, you know, covers explicit explicitly in a
in a in a show. Yeah, when do you when
do you guys say the blog er started? When do
you think it ended? I think it started. I mean
there were blogs before, but like it's peak, it's twenty seven,
twenty twelve. Um, I think that around two thousand and

(55:16):
eleven is when like social media starts coming in, so
you start seeing like the downfall with like Tire the
Creator out of Future starts coming in in like twenty ten,
and so like you start to see the downfall of it,
but like it still exists even today, like two Tope Boys.
Dot com is around, yeah, but if you look for
like not right, dot com doesn't exist. If you look
for like not right, not being mis info, Like yeah,

(55:38):
like there's no evidence. That's another that's another reason, Like
people have died, websites have gone away, z share links
have expired, right, like these songs that mattered so much.
You know, if you have it on your hard drive,
you're lucky because it's not on streaming services. Right, that
PIV is going, well, well I think I still still around.
Yeah yeah, but yeah I thought it. There's a huge thing.

(56:00):
They announced it and somebody announced it and then they said,
actually we're still here. We're just reworking some stuff. But
it's like like it doesn't have the same like are
you checking that pip every single day? No offense to
every new stuff, but like there's only there's some things.
I like, what what do I listen to on that
pip all the time? Because I lost my hard drive?
But there's a horse album. Yeah, stage than what was before. Um,

(56:26):
want to come on Rich forever Rich because Rich only
on that pip does they have all this because on
SoundCloud and everything else, right, they took off state scheming. Yeah,
so the album doesn't even sound right when it goes
from like sixteen yeah eighteen, Yeah, like we need I
need that right there. Yeah. Yeah, I still have my
iPod from that era. That's fine. My iPod had everything.

(56:49):
Have you powered it up and like plugged it in.
That's cool, that's great. Yeah, that was that h that
was that electricity blip that we went through last night.
Shut everything. Yeah, I'll never get rid of it. I'll
never get rid of that. I'll never get rid of
my old computer because it had so much musical mind
wire to that pit, to my free mixtapes. Yeah, Um,

(57:10):
do you guys think that we'll be doing Oh not us,
but the culture will be doing documentaries like this on
like SoundCloud rep and oh yeah I think they already
I think so, yeah, I think they did. Yeah, I
think they zero on a certain people. I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
I think that, like you know, for us too, it's
interesting because like if if we're gonna say two thousand

(57:30):
and seven to twenty and twelve. That includes the SoundCloud
that well we're all, yeah, it does h but that's
what fifteen or sixteen years you know, since it started.
It started, and so it's like a lot of time
has passed and we were able to look at it
with a different perspective. I think, like I and I

(57:51):
hope that when people look at different times and eras
and they give it enough space to to really consider stuff,
because if you're in it's it's such a different feeling
and it's such a different to have people now be
able to be like, no, yeah, I did do this
or I you know, I think about it differently now
because of this. You know, we do a lot of

(58:12):
that and try to you know, give it a full picture.
You know. Throughout what out of ten episodes, what was
the hardest one to h formulate, I guess or bring
to fruition. Yeah, question, I think that, Uh, they're all
tough in they're different ways you want to land the

(58:32):
plane right, right, So, like the tenth episode was a
little difficult. The fifth episode, which deals with a lot
of race stuff, was like really intense. UM, a lot
of rewriting, UM, a lot of figuring out. There was
a lot of stuff with like trying to figure out
why there were so few women rappers at the time. Um,
that's also in the fifth episode, Rhapsody is not she
happened sort of like more after that. But like, you know,

(58:55):
there's a there's a lot of like we spoke to
Nitty Scott, Um, we spoke to Yeah, there's a lot
of It's honey cocaine blog er. Yeah. But like but
like you know, you could say that the first episode
was difficult. You you really want to like launch this
thing the right way. Um. Yeah, I think everything had
its own challenges. You know. I think that every single

(59:16):
thing was sort of like pour it over time and
time again, and like you know, sometimes months in you'll
be like that doesn't work at all, that none of
this stuff works, and like you just blow the whole
thing up and then you have to redo it all again.
So like you know, that's sort of been Um, there
was there was one person who we who we found
as like an avatar for like everything that was bad,

(59:40):
and it was like then we realized, oh wait, this
person whose story we thought we knew, like we don't
know that person's story at all. So like had to
reconfigure that as well, like everything has its um everything
has has its issues, and everything has its upsides. Yeah,
I was going to act as a fan of the
blog error and then going into a death research. Yeah,
like this, what was something that you learned that was like,

(01:00:02):
oh shit, I had no idea. Well, oh man. One
of my favorite facts is, which is revealed in the
first episode, is that all hip hop they used to
send news alerts to your hip and they were the
first ones to have push notifications like before anybody before,
like Twitter, before Yahoo, like AOL. They were the first

(01:00:24):
people to innovate news actually coming to your hip, which
is like a wild thing. And I think that, Yeah,
we had a lot of there's a lot of great moments.
I think this the second half of this podcast. So
the episodes like seven eight nine, seven eight nine are
like some really like eye opening things. Ten is a
really eye opening thing. Um. So there's a lot of

(01:00:46):
information that we never knew. But I think what's what's
really fascinating is because we've never done something like this.
We've done a lot of storytelling, but never something this long,
this intense, and this like large. So two Jeff and
I had a lot of discussions about like, well, yeah,
but people know this part of the story, and they
know this part of the story, and this is well

(01:01:07):
known information. But when you put those three things together
back to back, it creates something totally new and so
you never think about it in the way that it's presented.
And so that's been really gratifying for us to bring.
You know, maybe maybe you've heard uh, you know e
Pamad who's J Cole's manager, Like he's told this story before,

(01:01:27):
but never with the context that follows it. Nyla in
one week and met J Cole and made the list Yeah,
all the same weekend. Wow, Wow, what a dream bill
will Yeah. By the way, By the way, so like
we've known Cole for you know, since two thousand and

(01:01:49):
eight whatever, Like we're not we're not proud of this,
but this is this is the know him him. But
we went to like his first listening party, right and
he was a huge fan of ours and so and
we would be mixing, you know, going out to all
these different places. But so he does his he's had
lass rouge and so he's standing there and he's passing
out his mixtape and Eric and I are like heading

(01:02:12):
inside and this guy comes over and he starts trying
to hand us a mixtape. We're like, no, we'll get
it inside, like we're good, and he's like, I'm a
huge fan. So we started talking to him and enjoy
my my event inside and we're just like, oh, oh,
you're the You're the guy who just signed to jay Z.
You got it you, Yeah, you're here. Yeah. Poor Coal,

(01:02:34):
By the way, he's used that as fuel for the
past fifteen years. I mean, I'm sure every end of it.
It was too like, guy, everything I just needed to get. Um,
I want to talk before you get I don't. I
don't want to hold you that's too much longer. But
I definitely want to ask you guys about the way
you guys work together. I'm not well, I'm sure right,

(01:02:56):
but that's what I want to talk about. Like, yeah,
because even to someone who I would I would consider
myself one of your close friends, you don't see the
cracks between you what you shouldn't write your brothers, but
you don't see the cracks between you two, even down
to the cadence of the way you gotta speak in
person outside of microphones, like you always know when to
speak after one another. Yeah, like people have been podcast

(01:03:17):
ever still talk over each other. Me and I was
to do this for four seasons, and I'll be like,
all right, I talk right, you know what I mean?
But you you guys being able to do that obviously
and articulate via speech, how was that working this product?
Like getting this art? How was that like, you know,
making sure that Jeff's vision was as much represented as

(01:03:38):
Eric's and Eric's vision and overall it's the real vision
was overall seen. Yeah, I mean see even right there,
you did it. Just now you're inside. You don't know
what is happening outside. You don't know what the dangers are,
and you don't know what the possibilities are for this thing.

(01:04:00):
And I think there were a lot of there was
you know, there were a lot of Eureka moments and
you feel like so just over the moon about something.
But there's just as many times, not just as many times,
but there's a lot of times where it's just like, yeah,
you think you have the idea and like you're so happy,
like you thought of this thing and then you present
it and it's just like no, it's not gonna work. Yeah,

(01:04:20):
And so like yeah, beating him up, drag out like
big time like fights about like stuff that you really
feel strongly about, and it's just like I don't like
any other like you know, friendship relationship, like coworker situation.
It's just like you figure it out right and like
it compromises and it's just like you know, yeah, and
you figure there's a bigger there's a bigger part to

(01:04:40):
this whole thing. And I think we both contributed equally
in lots of great ways for something that is I
really feel proud of this thing. I know Jeff really
feels proud of this thing, and like all of our contemporaries,
because that's what we really did it for. It's gonna
appeal to like you know, like Jeff, that people who

(01:05:00):
are like thinking about the capitalism part, the race part,
the sort of uh just the interesting story part. But
for us, we really did it for like those people
that we grew up around. And I think that like
in this two thousand and seven to twenty and twelve
period of time, they're gonna be really happy with it,
and from there will be happy. Jim. Is it coming

(01:05:21):
out one by one like a week a week? Ye
first two episodes out on April nineteenth, and then every
week after all right, yeah, it'll be good television. But
by the way, if you want to, if you want
to hang out until whenever, it is whenever the ten Yeah,
and then just benjam totally fine. Now I'm very enjoyable
that way too. Yeah, I'm not waiting, but but I'm

(01:05:44):
gonna do a closing. You guys don't have to close.
I'm gonna do it close. So thank you guys for
tuning into another episode of what. Thank you guys for
stopping by and joining us. Make sure you guys follow
us on Instagram, Makes you Guys, follow us on Apple Music, Spotify,
revstuing podcast. Makes You Guys are back next Monday for
another episode of the What hip Hop Questions, Legends, List Pizza.

(01:06:05):
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