Kendrick vs Kanye (first 5 albums)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yo, this is Ralph McDaniel's uncle. Ralph. You're listening to
the What hip Hop Questions Legends and lists. Welcome to
the What hip Hop Questions Legends List. My name is
nilas Samone and I am the man to put the
Johnson Jones. Yeah, I gotta downpack now. At first, I'm
like why he got to use all these words too much?
But uh, in this week, we're gonna dive into Kindrick's

(00:23):
new album Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers and asked
the question, is Kendrick's first five albums better than anyone
else's and helping us through this as our producers, they're
in a K, A D Block and a King. I'm
thinking of like like that stump the yard on They're
like pork chop extra grade. Yes, well, you know we

(00:51):
we would not be able to do this podcast, uh
two seasons in a bunch of great time if you
would not be able to do this without the Block
a King. So thank you guys. Yeah. Um, shout to
the w t F Media studios as well. Shout out
got Dave. But also in the house today was that
radio in the house today, in the building that hip

(01:12):
hop media today in the building. Why is there? I
don't you know how artists are like, I don't want
to be in a certain genre. I don't want to
be categories. That's how I feel like. I don't want
to be in the genre. Did alright dies? We're on
the road today, a lot of genre dies. We should
have tea out here too. Between these two is gonna be?

(01:33):
I didn't even put you in genre. I was putting
hip hop in a box. All right. Now you put
like hip hop media like you put hip hop media
and hip hop media. Everyone's in the building, it doesn't
matter what. Oh is that the light man? He's in
the building. Yeah, yeah, you're right in the building. Today
it is. Everybody's celebrating and they should be. But no

(01:53):
today on what we are joined by another great mind
to hip hop, another great mind and just uh media overall. Guy,
I came up with I cut my teeth with um.
We got jocks in here and my boy Jockes welcome
to the It's good. It's good, it's good, it's good.
I hate to but Jacques Jacquey, what did I say, Jocks?

(02:16):
There's no S with the S is there? It's just
silent French think, you know, Oh, he really put his
thinking up to Ja Jacques. You can say Jack Jack
Wards to Jacques, just as long as I don't pronounced
that s. Yeah, Jack, I've been so you've been. Let
me say your name wrong. No, I've corrected. I correct
people multiple times. Okay. It's just something about like when
people see me, they can't pronounce it, but if they

(02:38):
saw my name on a wine list, they're like, oh,
I have that. If I say I see I say that,
and Instagram right is spelled like that too. Yeah, that's
the that's the that's the way to spell it, like
Jacques Cousteau, Like Jacques Cousteau. There we go. Yeah, yeah,
you know, colonial colonialism, fashion colonialism. Okay, I just got

(03:01):
a bunch of French names. Yeah. Well, well Jock for
the people who don't know, if they've been under a rock,
if they just haven't been paying attention doing their googles,
if they did their googles right now looking up Jock,
what would they see. They probably see my LinkedIn at first, admittedly,
but I did see my Instagram. They'd see the stuff
that different. Genius. I was a host on Genius News

(03:22):
for like four years. One. Yeah, it was awesome. A
Little Peach stories still acting my favorite. Yeah, that that's
that was like a really special story. I did a
story basically who controls the voices of the dead, and
we have like Little Peep's mom and got some quotes
Mexicon's mom about how they are, you know, taking care
of their kids music after they've passed. Um. But yeah,
genius is awesome. I got to do four years of

(03:43):
just really nice and cifle hip hop content. I spoke
with a hacker that like hacks legal music. I tracked
down Shiloh Dynasty. You know. Um, I had a number
of scoops um in my four years there. It was
really great, Um, tens of millions of views, and you know, genius.
When I got there, they had two millions of subscribers
and then you know, eight years, like you know, they
had eight million when I left. And now that's not

(04:05):
all for me, you know, like you know, Rob Markman's
behind that, Lisa Shan's behind that, Tia Hills behind that
as well. But um, you know, I'd like to say
I played a pretty big part in that. So and
also their their series Verified and Deconstructed and other things.
But we were part of the we were part of it,
Verified long past. Oh it's iconic. I mean it's funny

(04:25):
because all these places have tried to mimic it, but
no one is else has been able to come close
to it. And that's one of those simplistic things like
you can't copy what your race. You just do you
just do it, Yeah you can. Artist has to be verified,
you know, like they have to they're at a certain size,
like they're gonna come then sit down and do a
verified like Rosalia did it verified, you know, doing verified,
They've done verified with K pop stars. It's it's like

(04:47):
pretty amazing. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, But I'm no longer there anymore.
Some of the work you've done, you know, it's not
just opinion pieces were reporting, right, Yeah, yeah exactly, it's
really and I feel like that's the thing that kind
of separated us from like a lot of the other
like meme pages or other things that were out there,
is because like I was actually calling sources, I was
actually making sure things. You remember, I did this piece

(05:08):
on louzi Vert's Eternal Take, and I spoke to like
six producers on it the day of and dropped it
that day. Like there was no one else that was
making videos doing stuff like that. You know, especially in
hip hop, it's like kind of like sometimes the journalism
could be like in like miles wide but inches deep.
You know, no one calls to verify anything, and you
know it's only right on this podcast and very of

(05:30):
this hip hop podcast for me to pause that statement,
I actually, I actually don't believe in pause. I don't
stay at all. That's fine, yeah, and I respect that
before it, but I do so I had to pause it,
had to pause it. That was crazy. Why don't you
believe in pause? Because I feel like it's like it's
I feel like the idea of pause is to like,

(05:51):
you know, this can't sound like two gay, right, But
in order for so many things to be pause worthy,
you have to be thinking like that. So that means
like you are, which is like fine, you know what
I mean, Like you know, like I'm by right, I
date men and women like you know, there's no issue
with that. But at the same time, like when people
are like, oh hey, yo, what pause? Whatever's kind of
like yo, you really that insecure? Thinking of that. It

(06:12):
kind of reminds me of today's topic, which is Kendrick's
album UM, a record called Anti Diaries, like it was
very introspective, like he talks about how like we say, oh,
that's gay or stuff like that, and we don't really
realize how it could offend somebody because it's not really gay,
like we say it so jokingly and it's like normal
in culture. But um, yeah, I feel like it very

(06:34):
much is reminiscent of, like especially being from Long Islands,
because you are like Long Island brawl culture and just
like you know, I feel like this the the song itself.
I see what Kendrick was trying to do, but like
you could have just done it better, you know, yeah,
because you don't have to say the F word to
let people know that that's what you're talking about. And like, yes,

(06:55):
that maybe makes it harder, but like you know, constraint
is what breeds creativity. I disagree. I mean, we could
talk about in death later on, but I just I did.
I disagree on that point just because it's it's art,
in which the same way you wouldn't get mad at
an actor if he was playing out a role and

(07:16):
had to say that word that wasn't coming from Kendrick,
that was coming from the person that he was portraying
in the song right. And I think a lot of
that gets lost because we're hearing our favorite artists and
we're hearing their voice and we're not we're not taking
that deeper looking, we're not taking the extras cognitive thought
to say, oh, he's telling a story, right, So like

(07:38):
the character at the point he was portraying, he has
to paint the picture. So I get the use of
the word right, and um so yeah, so that's that's
the only Like if he was using in a derogatory manner,
if he was using in a derogatory manner, if he
was using in a way that you know obviously was
made to offend that community, then you know, be with

(07:58):
you on that. But couch again, the actor. If Jake
jillenhal is playing a role and the role calls for
him to say that word, we're not trying to cancel.
We're not banishing. Oh yeah, you know. I don't think
Kendra should be canceled for it. I think it's more
of like a call into like, hey, here's what you
try to do and here's where people feel like you

(08:19):
messed up. Like I want to push back against that
a bit though, because like after playing a role in
the movie, you have like ninety minutes of contacts where
you can also have other outlets for you know, explaining
why this character is the way they are, why they're
saying these things and whatnot. But this is like a
three and a half minute song, and I just think
it was kind of just egregious in a point, right,
Like he could have had once, he could have said

(08:40):
it twice. We said it eleven times, right, and it's
like at that point, it's like what are we doing here?
You know? At that same point we get in a
weird space where we're like trying to uh censor like
telling telling someone after the fact. I definitely think it's intentional. Yeah,
it's intentional and based off the entire project as a whole,

(09:01):
and specifically that song, like he's going so hard on
purpose is to like break the stigma, which is why
he's so vulnerable. Like, like the whole point in having
this conversation is to actually have these conversations. So it's
not like he's promoting you know what I mean, Like
it's not like he's promoting the word. No, it's it's
not behind. But the thing is that I feel like

(09:23):
I feel like there's a general consensus from what I've
seen from like trans folks and like, you know, like
gay people that are feel like, hey, like maybe even
though this is not made for like us, it's made
for like straight people in a way, it's like, why
do you have to like put us down so explicitly
in order to like become mabe I know. But it's

(09:46):
like it's not like we're censoring. It's not like we're
trying to like, you know, cancel him, right, We're just
saying that, hey, like this art that you made intended
to provoke. This is what you made you want, you
made it to provoke, and it it provoked. But thought thought,
like how I took it is introspective perception of how
we treat that culture and how I took it as

(10:09):
in a similar way, but I could also see people
from that culture for how people from the community from
that community right felt offended by you know, like you know,
felt dead named, Like dead naming is a huge is
really bad for people, right, like, and I'm still learning,
so please forgive me, um so dead naming if I'm
not mistaken. Dead naming is referring to a trans person's

(10:32):
former name after they've transitioned. Okay, it's harmful, you know.
So it's like kind of like and even if he
did that on us own, yeah, with Caitlyn Jenner, and
also like so I feel like even him, even when
Kendrick was saying like Demetrius is Marianne, I feel like,
in my opinion, I feel like that was more um

(10:52):
like that was more tasteful than like dead naming Caitlyn Jenner. Like, well,
I may not agree with Caitlyn Jenner's policies, right, can
still a trans woman and we should be fair to
her as Caitlin Jenner. Right, So it's like, you don't, Oh,
that's not my fight. I don't fight for white people.
I mean, hey, fair, it was a black trans woman,
and I'd be with you. But there were number of
black trans women that were very profoundly and that's fine

(11:15):
for them to fight that. But I'm yeah, I'm not
worried about that. But just to give more context to
this song, you know, when he's saying the F word,
he says back when it was comedic relief to say
a word, and then he says the F word. We
ain't no no better elementary kids with no filter. However,
my auntie became a man, and I took pride in it. Yeah,

(11:37):
so does that help bridge that gap in that in
that regard, is that that it helps? I think for
me it's not that helps bridge that gap. It's almost
it's just like you're putting You're putting us in a
place where it's like, Okay, we understand the character you're
trying to say, but it's like, how much creative license
do you get to just use a slur over and over.
It's almost like me watching Leonardo DiCaprio Jena saying nigger,

(12:01):
like I'm not going to be mad at leonardoo huh hurt.
I don't think I haven't heard Oh my god. But
it's a little bit yeah, And it's like, you know what,
of course I didn't enjoy the character he was playing,
but it really painted the picture for the time, Like
without it, you wouldn't understand the death and and and Jock, Jock.

(12:25):
There we go. I've known crazy, but in to Jock's point,
because I'm saying to Jock's point, um, Quentin Tarantino gets
he gets, he gets mulled over for his excessive use
of the word nigg and all his films and even

(12:46):
if he has black characters saying it like there are
people and it's sometimes it is kind of agreedious to say,
what is it with this white man that keeps writing
these movies? Right, Jackie Brown pulp fiction, you know what
I mean? It's like where the old Jackie Brown needed
the word nigging, of course, but like it's like you
ask yourself, like even a Django unchained, right, it's like
how much of this do we need to see? And

(13:06):
who gets to tell? But that's real life down place. No,
Django wasn't a real life. That was No. I'm saying, like,
but this is what really be happening, Like people really
be saying the effort. Really, people really be saying the
end of to this day. Maybe not with the same
tone of extent, you know, but it's still being said.
And definitely back then it was excessive, like it was,

(13:29):
so I don't think we should undermine it. So Kendrick
says at the end of the song, to truly understand love,
switch position f word effort, effort, we can say it together,
but only if you let girl. But at the end
of the song he still flips it on and I think,
you know, yes, I'll say this, and we get into
the point I think you are making in that critique

(13:52):
of it. But he's saying it to kind of bring
up the conversation, I guess. But it's like, I mean,
like there was a popular like fake s shot going
around that like if Jack Harlow made a song similar
and he said the ND word eleven times and then
flipped it around, and like, you know what I mean,
Like it's not small. But the thing is, he's not
that dumb, you know the things I don't think he's

(14:12):
it's I don't feel like you have to be smart
in order to use a word in that way, like
in the sense of like I feel like we've in
the last fifteen years, the effort has gone undergone a
cultural this is persona on grata, whereas like the ND
word has been like that for years. But at the
same time, in the sixties and seventies and eighties, you know,
white people were still using the end words songs and
made a song called Woman is the Nigger of the World.

(14:34):
That was a thing that was a hit. It wouldn't
be okay for Jack to do, especially just because he's
not really he's not, Yeah, he's just not cut from
that cloth, so him doing it would be completely out
of So what I'm saying is, since this is Kendricks lane,
this is what comes with that lane is people. It's
people critiquing it and saying like, hey, I see what

(14:54):
you're trying to do. I see what this character you
created is trying to do. But it's still offended me.
And you know how offend did me? And this year's
I think it could be done better. So it's like
my things, It's like I feel like I feel that
critique is perfectly fine. And Kendrick on the album, if anything,
with everything he's talking about with Savior or like all
these products he talked, if anything, he should welcome this,

(15:15):
you know what I mean, Like he's welcoming anything. He's
playing FIFA's playing FIFA. But the thing is like he
shouldn't react to this as like oh, y'all are trying
to cancel me as instead of like no, like okay, cool,
teach me, because that's what the whole album is pretty
much saying, I'm not perfect, I'm not the messide that
y'all pulling me up to be. Teach me, tell me
where I'm going wrong, and that speaking of that Let's

(15:38):
jump into today's um overall question, which is it, does
Kendrick have the best five run album of all time?
Who you can who Who's five run album with you?
I mean, we're I mean this is about um this
when you hear me, it was about Kendrick versus you know,

(15:59):
And I feel like, I feel like, one, it's an
unfair comparison because I feel like Kendrick is making music
off of Kendrick's five albums is built off of the
first five albums that Kanye himself released, right, Like if
we have like section eight drops inven right, my Beautiful
Doctors to Fantasy had just dropped, So Kanye had already
completed his five album arc at that point. So it's
like almost like comparing um Magic Johnson to Michael Jordan's. Right.

(16:23):
People have these discussions all the time, right, comparing athletes
from different eras, right, and it's like, hey, can we
just admit that they're just both great? Maybe of this era,
Kendrick has a better five album run than Drake you
know what I mean, That than than Jake Hole anyone,
you know what I mean? Like, I mean, like they're
maybe Denzel Curry is another person that can come to mind,
like that's how that's been coming up in He's not

(16:44):
of that class. He's not of that exactly. He's even
he's five years like actively to that class. Right, So
it's like, yeah, but that class. But like Secon eight
verse graduate versus h for a college dropout, college registration
versus Section eight versus college dropout, college drop drop and
I don't think we should do an album. Well, I

(17:04):
want to hear I want to hear it. I want
to hear this. But I'm saying it's like I'm just
saying down yea even even the same thing, right, Late Registration,
that's the closest one. In my opinion, that is the
closest one. Yeah, I think that's closest one. Late Registration
is a great album. It's a good kid takes that
I understand even that it's a I feel like that's

(17:24):
a graduation pimp Butterfly. Yes it is. I feel like
in terms of like the scale of what it different
hip hop, what it meant hip hipping graduations in guation
is not even better than Late Registration Graduate. I mean
I like Champion, right, yeah, Champion, I wonder stronger. Yeah,

(17:45):
that's an amazing album that's better than to Pimple butterfla.
I'm telling you that Kendrick would not be performing in
stadiums if it wasn't for graduation. But that's important. Through
the door. The person that gets through the door first,
doesn't You don't get to live off of that. I mean,
but the thing is, Kanye has managed to live off
of it. Like I'm just saying that when it comes
to enjoyability, when it comes to like grandiose and it's

(18:06):
like what, it's the two things already, even like graduations
of maximalist album right, like he was going for like
samples and things. He was trying to perform in stadiums.
And the only reason that Kanye is able to perfor
that Kendrick is able to perform in stadiums is because
of Kanye making this music in this way, I feel
like the Bitber Butterfly is a great album, right, but

(18:26):
I do not think it's better than graduation, is better
than dance even that this microphone the thing is, but
even that because I feel like eight Awaits in Heartbreak
is responsible for like you know, Louzy Vert is responsible
for album. I know, but I'm talking about influence. Can
we talk about the albums. We talked about albums. We

(18:48):
talk about the quality of Paccardi of the album is important.
The first song You're Gonna tell Me is better than
all for song, I'll this was the one I'll find
I'll say, per prize winning. I understand that. But like

(19:09):
an entire genre, an entire generation of Litts rose through pride,
but at the ape for a little street love, like
I'm telling you, like I'm telling you, when it comes
down to it, impact and influence is just kye much
rather the Pulitzer than to say, like, oh, yeah, that

(19:33):
over there, I agree with yeah, yeah, I feel like
yeah and even that, like like I loved Damn, I
love Damn, like XXX is great on that album in
DNA is a great song, Loyalty, you know, like I
didn't think there was a bad song on it either.
I think it's a I think it's a perfect tent.
But I also feel like in terms of impact, what
is like Damn and Damn is influencing, but not in

(19:55):
the same way that like eight Awaits and Heartbreak is
ship even I'll even say that, like Playboy cardis self
titled Playboy CARDI would dropped in the same day as
Damn is more influential than damn Its. Right, It's not
a better album, but it's more influential than Damnits. I
don't think, yeah, I care about that. If we're talking
about the wind we're talking about I'm here, you're here differently,

(20:17):
what I got to represent differently? Well, Playboy Card, I'm saying,
oh yeah, but even even Kanye and and Kendrick Gartens
like kind of different lanes. Like Kanye may have been
more in Kendrick's lane where college dropout, but like he
stopped being on that super super conscious ship, like you know,
when it stop serving him. Yeah, and not yet exactly,
Like like about Pathway through Registration and graduation, he wasn't

(20:39):
really necessarily on that in that way anymore, you know.
And I feel like it's it's kind of it's about
the winds. But if no one really remembers you one, right,
it kind of lessens the import I don't think anybody.
I don't think anybody forgets that even I forget I'm
thinking about I'm talking I'm talking influencing here. So it's
like if like no one's incorporating that influence in their
own work, right, Like which which which what we see

(21:03):
with dataways in Heartbreak, which is what we see a
played by Cardi is self titled. Right, it's like you're
not necessarily seeing that you see it on Kendricks, like
with Saba. Care for Me is another one for that
that's direct influence from Kendrick exactly right. You know you
see it, but it's still but it's not it's not
as mainstream in a sense in the way that I
feel like. This is what's why. I also feel like

(21:23):
that it's kind of like a little red herring because
it's like not as mainstream in that way, you know,
like it's a kiss influences there, but it's like you
have to really pay attention. I don't know if Kendrick
is really trying to get like mainstream, Like this project
doesn't even have any radio single type, but he's never
been there. Yeah, I don't think that's I'd argue. I'd

(21:46):
argue that, like Kendrick always has some radio bait on
every single project. His first his first big radio song
with swimming Pool, it was not a radio record, I know,
but like it became a radio rap. I think radio.
But that's yeah, exact that it's becoming no matter what,

(22:07):
no matter what, no matter what Kanye was doing abstract
or what he was doing avant garde or what he
was doing in regards to like breaking the mold, he
still was following that. She was still following a protocol.
Gotta get the radio single out, Gotta get the radio single,
gotta get the radio single out. Kendricks, except for Dan,

(22:27):
I will, I will. We're all aware of what Damn
was that was interesting. I can do exactly what you'll
think I can't do, and I'll do it better than
everyone else. Outside of Damn. I've never heard a radio
record from Kendrick. I've heard records that radio was like,
I mean, we have to play something from this album
I D. You could say, is a radio record. When

(22:48):
did you hear it on the radio? It was played
on the radio? You played it. I haven't played it,
but but it was at our time. D D was
played on a radio like whoa, WHOA? What it was?
What station was played? Hot ninety seven. It was played
on the radio. And that's the thing, like bang bang bang.

(23:12):
But also you have to remember, like section eight. At
this point, Kendrick wasn't like gigantic at this stage, right,
It doesn't matter how but it was played on the
radio right like it was. You know, I feel like
he does have some radio because like he's still an
artist and got to make money. I mean, shout out
to those who played it. I think that's what took
d h D to radio. That is what is bugging me.

(23:32):
Like somebody said, all right, God, this is what we're
gonna take. You could have took uh. I wrote this
dragon with thirty in and then my nappy here and
then you could have did that riggle mortist. Any of
the rags would have sounded better on radio than a
d h D. So we talked about album for album.
Now I think maybe we can pivot to body of work? Right,

(23:53):
body of work? And what do you see happening to
both artists throughout that timeline, because I think the same
thing is Kanye he did his five and six years,
Kendrick did his in eleven, and I think that also
speaks to the kind of albums they put out. Yeah,
it's like that's a great point, right that like Kanye
did it almost in like a pressure cooker compared to

(24:15):
like what Kendrick did it. Right, Kendrick was able to
take breaks because Kendrick is coming off off the back
of like what Kanye with the word that Kanye put in.
It's kind of like another basketball reference, right, Bob Couzy, Right,
the n role played for the Celtics, they won like
eight titles back in the sixties. Is Matt a jj
Reddick for saying that, um, well that he that they

(24:35):
that they played that that that sixties basketball is a
bunch of plumbers and people playing a plumbers a mailman. Right,
But the same thing Bob Couzy is saying, like, you
mean Will Chamberlain and Bill Bill Russell were like plumbers
and mailman and that's why they and that's why they
scored eight thousand points. But the point that the point
Couzy was trying to make is that no one knew
what have behind the back pass was until Couzy was
doing it. So it's the sense it's like he he

(24:56):
laid the groundwork that other people have built all but
you have to be honest, you're you have to be
honest in your greatness. That's I think that is what
makes somebody great, being able to be honest about your greatness.
And then if you cannot surpass it, if if you're
a victim of the time, you have to be honest
about that. Like, I'm never going to sit here and
be like, oh yeah, I was just the best host

(25:16):
compared to these guys. No, no matter who you put
me up against any time, I'm that guy, which is
what you're speaking to Bob's point. No, Bob, wasn't you
only want because if you're playing against plumbers, you gotta
be honest about your greatness. You have to be honest
with the A B A. If the A B A
would have been inducted, I don't want to this was

(25:40):
This is a tangent that was meant to like make
up a point. You know, it's a crazy I was
trying to make a point. But I'm saying, like, if
Kanye make these albums, that's six out five albums in
six years, Kendrick was able to have to be afforded
the luxury. TD was like the own creative labels that
only were able to have to control over it. Right,
That's the same point that earlier that you know there

(26:00):
would be no Kendrick without YEA exactly. We got that.
But I don't think that should discredit like put them
on the same plane field, they both came out and
were just based on it off of the art, and
then even oh, let's say we're just basing it off
the art. It's stilly. So you currently listen to the
What Hip Hop Questions Legends and list will be right

(26:21):
back after this break. What are your feelings about about this? UM,
I definitely would probably go with ya, but I don't
know what was the question you just asked, because based
off the question the body of work, when you're looking
at the body of work, not really just kind of
album versus album, but when you look at the body

(26:43):
of work of both artists, and then we're cutting it
off at five here because like Kanye has had what
I think it's fair the five versus five because I
think that's Kendrick doesn't have anything packed that there was
a point somewhere that somebody made what I wanted to
like chime in, but you guys are really going in.
But something about impact you were saying, And I feel like,
just because Yea has like so much dominance outside of

(27:07):
just the music, that's why I were kind of like
gun hold on it being yeah, but if we are
basically off the art, it would probably be Kendrick, especially
when it comes to to Pimper Butterfly, Like, yeah, don't
got an album like to Pimper Butterfly. I think, I mean,
I think the Foundation, Yes, he thinks he has. I
mean I mean, I mean I think, yeah, Kanye, Yeah,

(27:33):
you know not Jock in Kanye's mind. Yeah, absolutely not
the Ghost and I will say not. I will say kids,
he Ghost is one of the best albums in the
last ten years. I'll die on that hill. Seven songs
you are, I want you to know. Seven songs. It's
a fantastic album. It's great, it's great, and start to

(27:55):
finish right, and then I'll also say that My Beautiful
Doctors to Fantasy is the best album of the twenty times. Like,
I don't think there's no one's gonna hurge. I don't
think anyone should argue that. So, which is, how could
you compare it to Pimpa Butterfly, that right, which came
out in the time. I didn't compare that, you I would,
you would have to compare number. But I'm having my Beautiful.
That's a big joker. That's his win. Like you can't

(28:17):
beat that, you can't beat it. But I'm in anybody.
You would think he doesn't have an album like butter does,
but he hasn't my beautiful Doctors and Fantasy there we
have to stand that. Sure, Yeah, I think Kanye, I
think Kendrick can make I think Kendrick can make my
beautiful dark Twister Fantasy. I don't think. I know Kanye

(28:39):
can't make it to Pimpa Butterfly. Well, I know Kanye
can't make a mystical route in the big stuff. And
if Kanye was going to make an album like that,
it would have been in the first three A's just
too lost, No, here goes a thing. This is the
perfect time for him to try and make it to
Pimpa Butterfly when he's sucking off the rails, you think, so,
I think Kanye his ego and his mask that he's

(29:00):
it on, like he's more best like allegory, like kind
of like become more of this like you talked about
with with graduation playing Arenas, he's become less relatable as
an artist where he went on with his albums, Kendrick
has become more vulnerable and more insular, you know, and
more like just look and also this has always been

(29:23):
Kendrick like doo. Kanye has been making music like this.
He's also always been on the other side, you know
what I mean, Like he's always played both sides. You
can say Tupac was the greatest method actor in hip hop,
but you have to say it was Tupac Kanye West.
I don't know. I think M F. Doom has that
he This man wore a mask for some time. He

(29:44):
just wore a mask though literally, but he was He
had a two black hat, y'all thinking he was really
Bishop from Juice, and Kanye had y'all really thinking he
really was a college dropout. Kanye went to art school
and then gave us an album called College Dropout and
talked about a K A. S My, talked about sucking
Black Greek organizations and all this other ship. And then

(30:05):
you find out you went to art school for two
months and sold people on it. He is no different
than his first three album. Run is no different than
when Trump went on that interview in the early nineties
said if I ran, I would run Republican and even
outside of that um just like the content matter like

(30:26):
he was never really that ever, but he sold it.
He sold it, and Nan Kanye comes from that lineage
though his mother was the professor at the university. He
comes from that lineage. But then he's in a documentary
or he does an interview not too long ago shooting
on the people that he came up with. And I'd
never really liked being a backpack rapper. In X, Y
and Z, he literally did. He said, I just did

(30:49):
it because it's not respectable. But the thing, it's not respectable.
But at the same time, you know, people change, people grow,
of course, like Kanye is not like talking about the
same things that we wanted to talk about that he
was talking about like fifteen years. Also, we gotta take
into accordance his own mental health that he's been public about.
That something in that too. And like even in them
we saw in the Netflix stock right, Connie still was
very much that person, right, he but he just always

(31:11):
had an eye on the stadium. But he was putting
his real life into it. And yes, he went to
art school for two months. But if you are an
African American grow around other black people, you would know
about a kids, you would know about black college culture.
I mean, I'm Haitian American and I didn't like come
up in like an African American household. But even I
knew about black college call not on top of that,

(31:34):
like not every African Americans family had people that went
to college, so like I didn't find out about that college.
And I've been very public college dropout with my introduction
to um black college culture and we got to give
it to a different world is definitely my I was.
I was a college dropout before I watched uh the

(31:56):
different world in like Fresh even Fresh Prince of bel
Air right like they was. He was trying to like
it's like as in like in terms of like what
is put on TV, what is mainstream? Black college culture
is mainstream, like the AK is our mainstream, and for
for black people, that is mainstream. Somebody somebody just heard
this and like screamed into that. Yeah right, They're like
you know what I mean, Like the divine it's a

(32:19):
Divine nine right. It's like it's like it's like maybe
the Divine nine name isn't mainstream, but in terms of
like the black fraternity culture, that's mainstreest. So I could
totally see Kanye and making out have to only go
into art school and and and still give him. You
give him, But I'm saying it's bullshit. But did he
not nail it but talk about he was unafraid to

(32:41):
talk about what he knows? I mean, I think you know,
he was unafraid to talk about what he doesn't know.
Jesus walks were like reflections of the time he was going.
Since then, Kanye has been the bragadocio Rockefeller kind of Kanye.
You know, He's always lived in that juxtaposition. So now
he's he's there. But I think when you look at Kendrick,
you he's singing We're United in grief, you know, I mean,

(33:02):
he's there's no braggadocio in anything that does. And that
being said, Kendrick has always been kindred content why storyline like,
and we've been seeing him evolved what it looks like
to be a better man and a more hill man
where we see somebody like Kanye who wasn't always true
to himself apparently, so it looks like and now he's

(33:23):
evolving and he's losing his mind. I mean, I don't know,
I feel like even losing his mind, I think he's
I think Kanye is very much in control of his
own faculties. He just has a different reality than most people.
And is trying to apply that reality into making music,
and a lot of it just kind of comes out
of like out of touch. In the same way, I

(33:43):
would not have bet any amount of money that Jock
would be a Kanye apologist. And I'm not a Kanye
I'm not Algy, I am not a Kanye apologist. I
am a let's be completely real what Kanye is going through, right,
And I also feel I don't funk with what he's
doing with Kim Right, I'm not a chem apologist either,

(34:04):
but like you know, constantly rapping about her making that
song about like dissing like Pete Davidson and stuff like
that's abusive, like it's but the thing is, it's it's
hip hop. And when you couple it with like the
love bombing, when you couple it with everything. But the
thing is, did they have the language to have to
talk about this? And also, yes, what I'm saying, but

(34:24):
and that's that's the thing, right, we have language discuss
things in ways that we'll both get to the point
across without but without offending a work. It is very
public with his ship, we don't know what the hell
kind and on top of that, but that's what I
actually like about it. I feel like Kanye has so
much noise around his music it makes me not even

(34:45):
want to tap in with your music. It just seems
like a fucking ship show where at least Kendrick he goes, goes,
he gives me time to miss him, and then it
makes me actually want to hear the music Kanye drops today.
It's not stopping the world? How if to stop the world,
to stop the world, I feel like I wasn't understand
play again the World. I think we were excited about it,

(35:06):
like we were happy to live because he was people
doing these He held hostage for two months doing a
tour for an album that wasn't one release too done.
How did the world not stop? I've seen it. I
didn't stop the world because I've seen it every day

(35:27):
on my timeline. I the world. Stop of the world
is Kendrick dropped and then getting text messages and because
it was required listening and like it because Kendrick hadn't
dropped in like five years. But That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
And I feel like I feel like that. I feel
like if I do agree that, I feel like there's
some albums that we all waited for Kanye has had

(35:48):
those albums, like right, like we know definitely had those albums.
I'm saying now though, I'm at a point where the
noise is just so loud that I don't care. I
agree with that notion, just that I think Kanye has
tried to always own the news cycle. Yeah, and I
think people are just getting fed up with that kind
of those antics of just trying to stir the controversy
to the music delivers. When the music delivers, will be stuck.

(36:11):
But that's the thing, had the music. It blurs the
music when he starts getting into these things with Kim,
and you wonder what motivation. Disagree. I think I disagree,
and I pushed back on that, and I call everybody
a hypocrite. I call that bullshit because where there's fucking
E News, the fucking there's a Kardashian fucking empire that

(36:31):
was on E and now on fucking Hulu, there's fucking
Stay Room. There's a whole bunch of ships. It's still
basic being messy and being in people's business. But now
you're telling me, because when everybody's in these tabloids, you
don't stop going to see these fucking white people movies,
but the things but not about that. It's about the
partner abuse. It's about the posting of what, not even

(36:51):
about the partner's I think it's partner abuse. I think
we care about partner abuse and hip hop. Now, yes
we do. We should, and that's how we could be
better at And that's how we better because the white
woman's involved. No, not because if a white woman's involved,
like like, look, where was partner? Where do we give
a funk about partner The thing I'm saying that we
should have cared. We should have cared when nas hit Polisse,

(37:13):
We should have cared for that right, We should have
cared what Fabulous with Fabulous knocked a couple of teeth.
What I'm saying is like we should care. I'm saying
that we should care about all of these things. But
why do we only care about it? Why it's saying,
but I just mentioned these other people. I'm saying that's
not the person. Only person I've cared about it, But
I just mentioned a couple other examples of it in

(37:34):
hip hop. He definitely you know what I mean? Like
I care about these things. When I hear about this,
this changes is how I like, look, you need to
tell me that partner hip hop. Let's be honest. But
I'm saying that, but I'm saying the music itself knew
the culture and that is the more consume most is

(37:55):
exactly what y'all are talking against, right, and of course,
but and and the culture is changing, Yes, the culture
is changing, but at the same time, and that's why
we have to like and this is why you call
people in you say, yo, right, Like there's some people
that like that. There are some people that wanted to
like excise Kendrick from like music after Auntidiaries, and I

(38:18):
don't agree with that, but that's what it's kind of like, Hey,
look this hurt a lot of people. I see what
you were trying to do. But if the medicine is
tastes like poison, it's not medicine. That's not true. I
think I think we Cried Together was a better example
of what he was trying to do, like in a
sense of like AUNTI daries talking about like the dynamic

(38:41):
women online, right, how it's just going in a cyclical nature.
But at the end of because it really did each other,
because it's easier to relate to and because he's more
in his lane, because like you have to ask yourself,
like not everyone is like on the internet, is Kendrick
very much gives luddite right, Like he didn't have a
phone for two years, right, he talks about it like
all the time, hates I G whatever, hates photoshop. Kendrick

(39:02):
gives like, I don't use social media. I'm not on
Instagram like that. So if you're not constantly plugged into
how language is being evolved to be more inclusive and
kinder and nicer, you wouldn't know that using the F
word twelve times on your song just ain't it? You
know what I mean? If you're constantly like basically you
just came back. You were out of five year sabbatical,
and you came back off your sabbatical, and I'm here

(39:24):
to tell you that, Okay, this is not in style anymore,
you know what I mean. And it's like, look, I
like the song. I mean, I hear you. That kind
of goes to the point of like T. K. Kirkland
things it's okay to do like X, Y and G
because yeah, yo, let's just step back home on just
let's step back go ahead and nil because it hasn't
been nihil Verse T K. Kirk, I hate to do

(39:46):
this month. You don't know he's he's the old spoke median,
but he's really from the did. But it's all love.
We piece it up. We have no problems. But it's
just such a good example of like quote generational differences
and how we said, like the game is changing because
he thinks like a woman should talk in turn and

(40:07):
like all these different, like very old school misogynistic things.
So it's like he felt like that and I didn't
feel like that, but it's just the culture is changing
because he's not keeping up on a podcast. But because
he's not keeping up with the times, he doesn't realize
that that ship don't fly. And the thing is like
they feel like they're attacked. You know. That's kind of
what happened with Dave Chappelle. Davie's like, why can't I

(40:29):
talk all these jokes making fun of trans people? What's
wrong with that? Why can't I punch down on stage?
You know what I mean? But it's like, no, like
you just sound like an answer, But I do feel
like people should understand from both sides, you know what
I'm saying, Like, but I think when you both there's
there's not one. The other side is dangerous. Yeah, exactly, yes,
bingo on the other side, bingle. And that's what people
like when someone's how democrats are the same? They both sides,

(40:50):
How is that dangerous? Different things in my opinion, But
Republicans and Democrats are both to change and they're not.
The only thing they differ on is with the no no, no, no,
they're not. They're not because at least one side of
the part, at least one side, And this is even
in Dave Chappelle, right, like in terms of saying these things,
they're not the same because when you both size one instance,

(41:10):
where one people are like, they're not they're not outwardly
trying to kill you, right, but the other one is
outwardly trying to kill you. You kind of elevated trying
to kill you. The Republicans are actually but even da
Dave Chapel's comments are actually because negative and jokes leaning
towards the narrow transphobic and trans people get killed at

(41:34):
this is what gets trans people killed. Right, So if
you equate that with people on the other side saying
like they try to cancel me or they're trying to
make it so it's two PC and we say that
both sides are the same when one side no one's
killing somebody because like they said something cancelable, you know
what I mean. But people are getting killed because people
are saying cancelable things to them, and that trickles down

(41:56):
into getting trans women killed, you know what I mean.
So I would say it's a false equivalence to late
what he's saying in anti diaries today, and it is.
I agree, it is. It's not it's not in anywhere
near the same. I think it's because the intention is
not there, Like it feels like Dave Chappelle's intention is
to poke fun, is to make fun of Kendrick's intention
is like, hey, this is where I'm coming from, this

(42:16):
is where I used to be. I want to show
you all how how I've evolved. And then it's like
it's kind of like it's not we can't put it
in a place. So it's like where we get mad
at you, right, where where we can't get mad at
you for trying? Right, It's like where you can't like, oh,
just because he tried, we can't get mad at We
should just accept everything he says, right, It's like, no,
like we were not happy with this. We're happy to try,

(42:37):
but like go further, do more, you know, And I
feel like that's it's kind of like we can't we
just give niggas passes, you know what I mean, like
we it's it's too easy, you know, like it's hard.
It's supposed to be hard. It's really I mean, he
said it's hard. Plays in the way mine can't figure out.
I mean, he's bigging it like he's trying to. I mean,
he's bold enough to try to have the conversation. I

(42:57):
wonder if he's going to perform the song, and you
know what I mean, I will say this he doesn't,
but I wonder if he is. And if yes, I
think he'll probably do it. And then he'll do it
and let the crowd say it. But that's but that's
you know, that's just as bad as Little Dicky performing
um and and the thing is like and even though

(43:18):
because like I did some reporting on that, like it
was written by I forgot his name, but like that
person wrote that Chris Brown's X was black, right, But
it's still a little Dickey song. It goes in the
same place of like Quentin Tarantino and stuff like that,
you're gotta go on this, You're gonna go on tour
and have your majority white friends screaming nick nigga that,
and it's where hip hop is going because it's a

(43:39):
parody song. Like I wasn't ned at it, but actually
at it because I'm sure and you was so mad
at Chris. I was like, come on, I hated it.
But if it's I hated it because like I feel like,
I feel like you just can't and also because I
there's a history little Dicky has been joking about trying
to find a way and is to use the end
word in his music. It's a thing I got. I
got to a ton of when I made the video Genius,

(43:59):
people was so pissed. It's the thing in real life
though you don't think white people are saying behind closed doors.
And the only white man I would bet money or
doesn't say behind closed doors. Yeah, I don't think every
other white but he looked at But it doesn't. But
it doesn't make it okay, right, it doesn't make it okay.

(44:20):
It's really disappointed, honestly to hear you talk about ant
diaries like that, because I really, from my point of view,
I thought it was really insightful, like it was really
inter What I always do where I stand in this
is if something doesn't offend me, I still have to

(44:41):
acknowledge that it can be offensive to the people connected
to it and that so I'm not mad about it,
but I do think he didn't like that, so people
like me can have the thoughts that we had after
it's like, it's like, why is it exactly? Why is
it that right? Like this is so you understand the

(45:04):
deafness of the conversation. It's like trying to have the
Thanksgiving conversation in the song. If they didn't say the
N word and the django, like, we wouldn't understand how
brutal it really is. But the thing is we would,
but the things you don't need to have also tonsequently
did django? I get what you're saying, But django wasn't
like this serious take on like slavery it was. It

(45:25):
was actually the opposite. It's like it was kind of
making light of slavery. It's not like it was twelve
year as a slave, Like if I've seen tears, I
understand if I would have seen twelve years slave and
they didn't say and twelveets label if I would have seen, Um,
I don't know, there's so many slavery movies. Have ad
seen any of those, like serious slave movies and the like,
this is a bullshit, Like what are you trying to
tell me? But Jack, do you think the semantics of

(45:46):
him using the effort is the one is the thing
that really turned it for you? Because I do think,
like when you look at the last twenty years of
even hip hop, you know, celebrated icons have used the
effort regularly, from jay Z to eminem t DMX. We
have to bring into this continue though. Yeah, but yeah,
I mean we're not too far from that being a

(46:06):
poison pill, I guess. And that's what I'm saying, Like
I was saying that before, Like we are like maybe
ten years into the effort, being fifteen years it should
have always been prisoned on grata, right, But I can't
say we didn't know. How can we know? Because we
didn't have the language to describing, So how can it?
It shouldn't have asn't because when you applied, when you
apply exactly in the same way that we applied today's

(46:28):
thinking on things that happened in the sixteen hundreds, like
we're applying today's thinking on the way that like people
or even I spoke on Xbox Live two five, you
know what I mean, Like I shouldn't have been using
the effort or people shouldn't been able to call me
the end word whatever, like I shouldn't have said like
that's so gay when like hey, like we shouldn't have
said these things, and we are now at a place
where that is. It's just it's like, look like maybe

(46:49):
Kendrick is still in this language, he's still were still
in twenty fifteen or whatever, but it's like we could
still It's like, my thing is, like, why is it
that it took using that word so egregious lee it
ordered for like to get people straight people to like
accept and understand like where this is going for It's like,
why is it that, like you have to put a
group of people through so much trauma in order for

(47:11):
them to seem the human you know what I mean? Like,
but I know this is but the thing is like then,
but then the critique has to be looked at ourselves.
It's right, that's albums turning the mirror on us and
seeing how something we haven't even talked about yet the

(47:33):
use of Kodak on this album. Yeah, I don't agree
with that where he talks about mother's sexual assault, being
a better man, that repeat, healing all of this, and
to just have Kodak on the album twice once for yes,
two skits and then the song. I mean we also

(47:53):
remember Kendrick threatened to remove his music from Spotify. They
took our Kelly's music off of it, right, Like, so
that's questionable too, And also I think it's the censorship thing. Yeah,
and I think that's exactly right. I think it's it's
a censorship thing, which I agree, like, there's no way
Mouse Jones can be influenced by who I was influenced by,
exists in the space I exist, and then stand behind

(48:15):
the thing is it's not it's it's only considered censorship
if it's come if it's from the government, right if
if the platform of spotifect it's not a governing body.
It's not vote for you vote for people to run
the bordable if the top it's not that is a
governing body. Yeah, but the thing is it's not. No.
But the way the First Amendment works is if the

(48:37):
government tries to limit your speech, the government cannot limit
your speech if a platform does not agree with what
you were saying on that plant don't have the right.
They have everybody take they don't, they don't, they do, Yes,
they do. And that's that's what it is. And that's
why I didn't do it. I mean, and the thing,
but my thing is, like with respect the Kodak as
someone that's Haitian, like I like, I support every Haitian

(48:58):
person that I post, so weaken every black person, every
black person, but like especially Haitian people because like I'll
be honest with you, like a lot of black people
are sucking up with us Haitian people. For a long time.
It was I was saying it for a long time.
The Haitian love, you know what I mean, you have
brand new it's it's it is. It isn't right. And
especially for me, were the first people that we were
the first board. Love in general within our community is new,

(49:22):
it's not. But like but generally across generally across the
cribin in the disk, like, Haitian people have taken a
lot of ship from a lot of other black people
and other black people in the Disk especially, I don't
want to I'm say especially I mean, like especially Dominicans, right,
Like there was like we don't call it, well, we're
all getting on by Dominican and that's the yeah. But

(49:43):
which is crazy because you're seen their jeans. They're black,
they're black. But what I want to say is right.
But what I want to say is that Kodak included
on the album. It doesn't square up with the fact
that like he mentions like he's like he said his
old mother's sexual abuse. I don't want to be fissed off.
I hate this board conversation. Would everybody be like, no,
the Haitians know, the Africans know that everybody has a

(50:05):
woe is Me story, when in realitybody everybody, but you
still got to acknowledge the hierarchy as they were coming
into America like Haitians were, at least in my experience.
I'm not Haitian American, but I did grow up with
Jock on Long Island and watched it. The Haitian kids
were treated like ship. Yeah, like we didn't even know,

(50:28):
you know what. I'm also not from New York, so
I think from different regionally. I'm from Maryland. Oh yeah, definitely, yeah,
definitely terribly different. It's like we were. It's it's and
it's it's funny because like Haitians were the first people
to put Haitian in our the Haitian flag in our
names on Instagram and social media. But I want to
get back to what I was saying with Kodak, right.

(50:48):
What I'm saying with Kodak is like, yess, I would
support him because he's Haitians. But like Kodak hasn't necessarily,
you know, come out and been regretful or especially sorrow
with what he did right with he's a cues of
sexual assault of someone who is just eighteen if I'm correct, right,
like on a couple of different occasions. So it's like
people think that including Kodak is kind of like this
way of like, oh, look like you know, like we're

(51:10):
including him as like as an aesthetic choice, and you
know what I mean, Like and like he came from
a tough upbringing and whatnot. But just because you came
from ship doesn't mean you have to also give ship
to other people. Like what about the person that went
through that? What are they thinking when they they listen
to this album, They're like, oh, kend just talking about
like sexual assault about his mom he mentions other rappers,
and there's a number of rappers that talked about how
they've been sexually assaulted as kids, But then you have

(51:32):
someone who's actually done that, you know what I mean.
It's just like it's like I get it. It's like
part of it is kind of like an absolving type
of thing. But if Kodak hasn't necessarily outwardly expressed like
any sorrow or wanting, or maybe he's still in the
healing process because I think this or like the evolving process.
It's not to say that you wouldn't get that, which
is why it's it's open for critique, and it's like

(51:55):
it's not about like I'm not about like this. You
can't canceling is people don't get canceled, you know, they don't.
They don't. There's no such thing as canceled. Cancel culture
has been is not a thing, like you know, they don't.
It's called consequences, you know what I mean. It's called accountability.
It's called like you can't just say ship and expect
pople to be cool with it, you know, and not
say anything and just be totally down with everything you're saying,

(52:17):
you know what I mean? So it's like kind of like,
how like if you don't expect spousal abuse, where is
hip hop? Well guess what hip hop? And so you said,
but what is hip hop without didn't partner nozzel partners.
It wasn't abuse. The world wasn't abuse. The world abuse.
We can run to take back because I don't run

(52:39):
to take back. I would not I would not stand
by and I hopefully they put it and then laugh.
What I want to move on from the cancel. Yeah,
this The one thing I will say is that, like
I know Kodak hasn't publicly apologizing the fact that he
supports Trump is another yea strike. But um, we don't
know his relationship Kendrick and whether or not publicly or

(53:02):
like intimately they may have had a conversation about YO
and maybe Kendrick. So my thing is it's like, from
what we do know, Yeah, this is what we know,
So like I can call it out from what I know.
I wasn't in the studio with them with like Kendrick
maybe because like something like John Carmonica wrote about this
when he was writing about Kodak's last project, Dying to Live,

(53:24):
and he's like there's something about like Kodak that he's
able on like lyrics to like be very self introspective
and kind of like explain like where he's wrong and
where he sucks up and just kind of like be
really expressive about his life. But when it actually comes
to like talking to him and interviews and stuff like that,
he can't, like he can't dictate that. So it's like,
because a Kodak is a great rapper, Kodak can actual quota,

(53:44):
he's a good and he's a really good rapper. He's
a skilled rapper. He makes good songs right, He's can
articularly can articulate extremely well, I would say, And that's
the thing one with some of our ninety favorites, like
his skill level at articulating what's in his head onto

(54:05):
the paper, onto the microphone and make everybody's feel that
he's just as good as any When we did top three,
Quota should have been in it. But which is what
makes but which is what makes it so painful? I
don't know it makes it. I'm saying that's gonna last
over No, no, no, Kodak. I mean he has lasted

(54:25):
it ready, like he's never I think an uninterrupted run
we would see how because you gotta remember, like I
don't even know he remember when people get locked up,
you then people have a chance to like like them,
people have a chance to catch up on them, people
have a chance to Champion was locked up four he was.

(54:47):
It was like, it was like it was great. What
I mean, I'm saying the three that we had, Rowdy,
the Baby, and Little Baby, I think quota with those
guys successful, I think. I mean even the baby has
fallen off the baby for and that's why and that's
why I said we did that episode last season. Yeah,
so that's what I'm saying. It's like, yo, like I
don't I don't know what conversations they had in the studio.

(55:10):
I don't know if Kendrick, you know, if Kendrick has
the Messiah absolved Kodak Black. But at the end of
the day, it's like, look, if people are pissed about this,
and probably people are can be pissed about me saying
this whatever, But if people are pissed about this, and
they are allowed to be, because like, how are you
going to sit here and say you're speaking for people
like your mother had sexual abuse, Like you're trying to
like speak for these people that you have something that's

(55:31):
done that. But I think that is the point in
an autum, that is a juxtaposition of the very existence
of a single or even if think about and even
if it wasn't the point of it, people are gonna
be bad about. But my thing is to think about this.
I want you try to think about this for a minute.
You think about everything you've experienced just in your lifetime
alone at a black person, both personally and existentially. Right,

(55:54):
So that means what you've personally dealt with, and then
what you have dealt with or what's trickled down from
you from parents, aunt, uncles, everything, Right, Somebody just go ahead,
there's somebody out the three of us. We all have
everybody in this room, every black persons room. Somebody has
a family member that loves our Kelly music. Some one

(56:17):
of us. There's five black people in this I'm guaranteed
that every single one of us have a family member
that won't let go of our Kelly stop. We're also
all black, which means wet more than likely outside of
Nyla because she is a woman outside of outside now
that we all have black women in our family. By statistics,

(56:41):
one in every three black women in their life has
uh experienced sexual assault. The whole point of this is
somewhere in in in a lifetime, you have somebody over
here that likes this, and then somebody over there has
been a victim of this and somebody who experienced this.
All Kindrick is doing showing you how all of that

(57:04):
goes into one person existing. So yes, my mom did
go through the sexual sult. But damn, when I hear
this code that, when I hear what's that? What's that
first one? No flocking? When you had no flocking? Like
damn it hard and you almost remember like, oh not
this nick bugging at the time when no Flocking came out.
He wasn't necessarily he's of any of these things. I'm
just saying the song right, like you hit a song

(57:24):
like it doesn't matter, you know. If I hear now
I do that idea, I'm just like, damn his you
know what I mean? And not everybody thinks like that.
Some people just be in a club just existing and
you're just so happy to existing. He was also sixteen.
Yeah he's wild. Young's wild, even these girls being young
like he's still but it's not right. It's like because
he brought up the age. I think it's like I

(57:45):
just feel like they're probably less conflicting people, less conflicting
artists that you could have asked to do that, but
would have it wouldn't have listened. I don't think, Yeah,
I don't. I don't think it would have hit as hard.
I think the thing is but I think part of
it is like because it is like intended to provoke,
and I know that's the point of the album. But
the thing is, like if the point of the album,
it doesn't matter what your intention is, it's all about impact.

(58:06):
You know, We've all been in arguments with our significant
others where we've said something that we said a joke
and then the other person took it waywards ago It's
just a joke, right, I didn't mean it like this, right,
But to the other person, what you said was really shitty.
You know, what you said was not intention matters, But
like impact is like way impact is something that you

(58:27):
feel and always remember. But I think intention is also
like you can't cut out the fact if someone I'm
not saying you can cut it out. But what I'm
saying is like eventually impact, an impact will cause you
to forget the intect intention, you know what I mean?
Like because eventually, if you are a gay person, if
you're trans, and you're listening to AUNTI Diaries, right, and

(58:48):
you've had an entire life right of having to make
sure people use your correct pronouns, not calling you by
the name that you gave up ten however long many
years ago, Right, you do not like getting called the
effort just because you're heading that's But the thing is,
it's like if if, if you have to listen to that, right,
and you know that this point is that's why people

(59:09):
can accept you and whatnot, But like constantly it's like
eventually you just kind of forget that what the intention
was because the impact is constant. Is constantly just hearing
the slur, he's hearing the dead Naty, You're just hearing
the miss generation. You're constantly hearing. It's like, after a while,
it's like, what is the intention? You can you completely
forget about what the intention was because the impact is
just there. You're now listening to the what if I

(59:29):
questioned lending to listen? Will be right back after the break.
Mr Morale and a Big Stepper was a how many
songs on album seventeen eighteen. If there was an eighteen
part podcast, it would be it would be it would
be more digestible than music. I think people are just

(59:51):
people just believe that music is supposed to be this
space where when everyone hears it, you're supposed to everyone's
supposed to feel the same way. I think it would
be more digest if if music wasn't behind those words. No,
I don't. If he had the same conversation on an
eighteen part podcast, you'd be able to be like, oh,
I can hear, but if he said it, I would
still at his perspective things like I didn't like when
Joe Rogan said the N word, And even if he's

(01:00:13):
had its us in a podcast, well he wasn't. He
wasn't explaining anything. He was just saying the N word.
But I'm saying, like, if you were happy you're talking
to the point that you point is like if we
were having the same conversation, so I Joe Rogan was
having the same conversation about using the N word and
he said the N word in that context, I would
still be pissed. Right. It's like if you're having a
conversation about how I remember how we used to say
the F word whatever, and you said you would say

(01:00:33):
it like repeatedly. That would be even more agregedious. It's like,
if you know that you weren't supposed to say this,
then why are you saying it now to prove your
point about how things have changed. But to that point,
Kendrick's the song is telling the story. It's in character.
It's not like Kindrick is just using and I think
I just would this whole this whole thing I just

(01:00:53):
write this whole thing is it's Kindrick, but it's it's
a character. It's a character that Kindrick creating. This. There
more around since but this is what this is on
the Big Steppers, This is the big this is the
Auntie Diaries on a Big step. But just this, this,
this character, this narrative that Kendrell created. This all started
like I would say this, even a lot of this

(01:01:14):
started on overly dedicated, Like a lot of this starting
on overly dedicated exactly, Like so if if we go
back to like we were talking about, um, what's the song,
what's the song? Um? We cried? If we're talking about
we try together, right, A lot of that started on

(01:01:35):
he started playing with these thought processes on UM overly dedicated. Um,
he's like something that hurt people that I love it.
You know what you're talking about, And he's talking about
relationship and you know, being abusive and things of that nature. UM.
Like these characters, the characters that we're dealing with on
this album started albums and albums ago, which brings me

(01:01:59):
to question. I want to ask who we get out
of here? What does each one's five album arc say
about the artists? From graduation of My Beautiful Dark Twist
of Fantasy? What that's a good question. What what maturation on?
What do you get from Kanye from UH from Section
eighty to Mr Morale in the Big step? Is? What

(01:02:21):
do you get from Kendrick? And I think that will
be the fair judge. I think I think with this,
since Kendrick is more top of mind, I think it's
it's someone that that always knew that they were nice, right,
that knew that they had talents in rapping way right,
that knew they had talent, but that was generally an introvert.
Because I remember meeting Kendrick at south By Southwest. So

(01:02:43):
this is a couple months before Section eight drives and
just like he's just in the backstage. He's just not
talking to anybody. He's just like super chill, very quiet,
like you know, like and just like he's always like
I feel like it says that someone who has grown
that's constantly observing, that's Kin Slee taking in and puts
from outside and trying to like turn his world into

(01:03:05):
his music. When he constantly talks about growing up, right,
he mentioned that he has his brother died when he
was nine and something like that, seeing like baby Keen's
mother strung at like talking about these things. Like. The
thing that we love about Kendrick is that he felt
he was able to put in these hood stories in
such a digestible way that was that made you think,
and I was like very impactful, right, And with Kanye,
I feel like you see someone that's always striving for perfection,

(01:03:27):
that's always striving to take the stop, to to to
remove the chip that is on his shoulder and trying
to prove people wrong. And that's what you see with Kanye.
And with respect to miss him around the Big Steppers.
I liked the album. I love the album. I actually
love it, Like I had a lot of great conversations
like this, You know, but like I feel like even
the best people are flawed. Even the best people make mistakes.

(01:03:48):
But the thing is, some mistakes, in my opinion, are disqualified.
And not that I'm saying this is respect the Kodak right,
not with Kendrick. Kendrick's mistakes, in my opinion, aren't disqualifying, right,
but they are also like, hey, here's what you messed up,
you know what I mean? Like this didn't really fly
that well? You know what I mean? Like how could
you have done this better? You know what I mean?
Like somebody I saw, I saw an article, I saw

(01:04:09):
a comment that said, maybe he could have just had
like a two minute interlude right of of his aunt,
of his of his uncle apologies, right of his uncle
speaking right, like telling his story right, or like his
his aunt his cousin right, like telling her story right.
Maybe that could have been it. Right. I feel that
we're gonna dang. And I don't want I don't want
to keep you throw a protect I just feel like,

(01:04:30):
and I say, there's a lot about performance, performance things,
performance based things, whether it's sports, whether it's music. We
get in a dangerous place when we tell somebody, oh,
you should have did this instead of you saying I
don't like this, right, I can accept as a critiquer,

(01:04:50):
I am going to say at right as a critic, right,
a critic critique like as a critique er, I'm I'm
I'm always land and I think me and I'll have
done this for so long, you see it, I'm going
to tell the artist yet, that was whack. That was good.
I don't like this, but I'm not gonna tell you.
So you should have went in because what you could

(01:05:11):
have did is you could have put this ball hand.
But because I think we get in a dangerous place
because the art is perfectly imperfect, whether we like it
or not, I think we get in a dangerous place,
not you. I'm speaking at a tweet you were talking about, like, No,
he shouldn't have had his uncle on there for a
two minute a little because that would throw off whatever

(01:05:31):
he just made. No, And I think that's fair, And
I honestly, if that's one point, like I would conceive that, like,
you can't tell people how to make the art, but
you can say, hey, this is how the art made
me feel. And I don't like how the art made
me feel, and I think you could do better with
that art. And I feel like in people even suggesting
these things, it comes from a place of love and
not a place of I would hope, so it comes

(01:05:53):
from place of like, hey, here's how this hurt me,
and I'm trying to tell you how you can make
it better. I mean Roquel Willis, she's a black transactivists,
she's amazing. She she had a tweet and she was
very incensed about it, and then she's saying, like, why
can't you approach us? Why can't sis gendered hetero sexual
people approaches the way we want to be approached, you

(01:06:14):
know what I mean, Like, why can't you come correct
with us? Why can't you engage with this? Why can't
you talk about us and the way we want to
be talked about? Why do you have to talk about
us in the way that, like we find is de
laboratory in order in order to convince straight people that
of our humanity. And I think, why do you put
an answer to that? Is because I don't think most
cis gender people have accepted the fact that people from

(01:06:39):
the trans from the lgbt q I plus community exists
outside of our acceptance. Yeah, I think that's the problem.
And they don't is a symptom don't exist for us too,
They don't. Yes, I agree with they don't exist. Queer
people don't exist for us to accept them. They exist

(01:07:01):
to live a full life. And I think once we
get that understood, once we get to a level where
people want to understand that, I think things like this
song they stop happening because I do believe the intention
was good. I do believe the intention was to show

(01:07:21):
I accept my uncle, right his ant transition to so
I accept my uncle, I love my uncle. I had
a fucked up way of understanding this thing, and unfortunately,
like a lot of men since gender men say, I
didn't get it until it was close, right, I didn't
understand it until it was close to home. So if

(01:07:44):
I can make this song, but I'm saying it's like
there there have been many white rappers that have made
song about like black plight, about being privileged in hip hop,
and I would say, in the N word, right, you
could have made But I'm saying, like, it's it's possible,
you can do it. It's just like yo, look like
it's a it's it's it's it just it just kind
of feels like, um, it just felt petulant. Even in

(01:08:04):
that hit the whole bars like effort, it was like
it just felt petulant. It wasn't you know, that was
the thing I hear you. I think that like that
could apply to women as well, right, And I still
think that there's somebody out there who can make a
song that you guys feel comfortable with and support and
the hip hop space. I think the way Kendrick did it,

(01:08:25):
he did it on purpose. And I'm personally not upset
about it because I understand it, I guess because that's
how my brain, you know, like I was, I was
the person who was speaking to so, you know, and
I understand like you guys might be offended about that,
but also like this is this is America and this
is hip hop. Like we have songs like Bitches Ain't
Ship but holes in Tricks. But I'm not gonna harp

(01:08:46):
on those songs. It's just not for me. I'm gonna
go listen to, you know, maybe like a J. Cole
Crooked Small or something that's a little more empowering, but
I don't like those. The two spectrums have to both
exist because that's just the real of the world we
live in. And when someone's on the other spectrum, and
like there's a group of people that are like mad
about it, Like I'm mad that we have so many

(01:09:08):
songs that the great women and music videos and now
we're you know, it's a whole empowerment era on pussy popping,
you know what I'm saying. So it's like I understand
not liking it, but at the same time, like we
can't be naive to the realities of the world. So
it's like I'm not saying it's not like Kendrick is
promoting it, like you know, this is what it is.
He's clearly sang in the song you know we did

(01:09:31):
this and this is wrong. And I understand I might.
I might not like it when somebody calls me a nigga,
and I've been called a nigga several times by white people,
I don't like it. But yes, yes, people have definitely
a little more outward Senior Week where all the seniors
go to Ocean City, Maryland. There's a drunk white guy

(01:09:52):
on the beach and you called me a nigga, a
nigga bitch. So it's just like this is the reality
of the world. Slap hearted it. I want to know, okay,
I want to ask a question a little off topic,
but has to do with the topic more off topic,
just like making. I'm just like making Darren squirt and
Kanye got back with Drake. I was slightly confused. I

(01:10:15):
guess I'm not mature. I think I got some healing
to do. That all the time. Great, that's my favorite ball.
Is there's something deeper than that? Or is it just
kind of him taking a shot? No shot, that was
shot at all. I don't think that that was him
saying what is your interpretation of that's vulnerability? That was
vulnerability as a man. You're saying as a man. He's

(01:10:38):
saying everything my father taught me. I hold grudges. You
played with me. I gotta beat. It's like the CARDI
bat right, you gotta beat forever trying to get It's
show y'all a cute showing you. It's shim showing you
that once again, I am not perfect, Kanye, Drake, you've

(01:11:00):
been doing all this and now you are cool. He's
still don't He's saying, at this very moment, at his
big age, I still don't get it. I don't see
if he's still got some healing to do and and
and the thing He's still and I feel like that
was my favorite love that far too. And I also
feel like it relies on things that we don't know.
But I'm not going to talk about what we don't
know and use that to decide because of what we're

(01:11:20):
talking about with Kodak, right, It's like, I don't know
what they said, so I'm not gonna like I'm gonna
keep it even keel to this conversation. Yeah, regarding this album,
let's talk what is your favorite song right now that
that you're that you're feeling right now? Um Rich Spirit,
Purple Heart for me, we cry together. I love the
ghost Face first was here ghost ghost Face arrives on
that if we can on the album, forget the song.

(01:11:44):
He arrives on the album like the superhero, arrives at
the fucking crescendo of the fight, like you're not losing
the fight. Everybody's fighting, but you're like, oh my god,
I can use some like his role and his tinound
go and pretty Tony just lands like whom Supreme Clientele

(01:12:09):
say something and he just and he gives one of
the best verses, one of the best guests verse I've
heard a year and he was talking about everything like
it was so good to hear. I know I'm gushing,
but I really loved this verse like ghost Face being
an o G. He didn't get on there and rap about,

(01:12:30):
you know, toxic relationships kind of like he did on
like Ghost to Udini, where I love that album, but
like he didn't do that. He more or less stood
and said, I'm not gonna wrap like these kids. I'm
gonna rap about what I want to. He talked about piece,
he talked about mending people, like it was so much
that you were talking about to hear from ghost Face,
who have who has so many toxic relationship records and

(01:12:53):
then like to see him in relation on you know
whatever that show was a few years ago to hear
him like that as a grown ass o G. With Kendrick,
it was like Kendrick Scissor and I mean kind Summer
Walker and fucking ghost Face. It was great. The die
Hard song with Last Two, and I like Silent Here

(01:13:17):
with Kodak too. I really like Kodak's part more than
Kendricks on the record, and and uh point, yeah, Kendrick
versus Kanye body of work neither what is your feeling.
I honestly hate that we're putting them too together. But

(01:13:37):
I'm gonna go with Cold. I mean not I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna go with Kanye. But it's like the fact
that it's only them too in the conversation means a lot,
means because who else got five albums? Yeah, I'm gonna
go with Kanye. Yeah, I don't even say like, I

(01:13:58):
don't I don't think gets close because because the latter
Kendrick wouldn't have been able to make those projects had
kind of not made that first five. And you know
there's no way that like yeah, so yeah, I just yeah,
I'm gonna go Withna, go with Kanye. Yeah, Mouse you
may once. I'll say something while we wait for you.

(01:14:21):
One thing I'm will say is, I think, you know,
when you think about classic art, poetry, art, music, whatever,
as things go over time to meet, Kanye's music over
time gets less than kind and Kendrick's music over time
getting better. And I was gonna say that they're both
like geniuses, Like Kanye genius, I think, and then I

(01:14:43):
think for like Kendricks genius is is like the actual
art itself. Yeah, I feel like and I feel like
for music, their production being him being like the best
producer in hip hop, it's what makes it so strong,
you know what I'm saying, Like if Kendrick had that
same thing in his bag, it might be a different
It's also the best. I feel like Kanye is also

(01:15:04):
the best collaborator the hip hop I think you mean
as in everything for a project, or you mean like
collaborating as in like Kanye like you know, knowing his process,
like even the delivery person gets a writing credit on
the song, right, Like he's just in a whole studio

(01:15:24):
and everybody's just working and he's kind of just direct
He's like the maestro, you know, kind of directing like
you know, and even like the fact that he has
writ is like what a thirty hours right, Like Kendrick
wrote that verse, right, you know what I mean, Like
you know it's it's and but he's still coaching Kendrick
on how to write it for him, right, or with
Rick Ross like Devil and New Dress, right, he told

(01:15:46):
Rick Ross wrote a verse and then Kanye came and said,
now you could go harder than that. And then Rick
Ross writes one of the best verses of the last
ten years, you know what I mean, Like Nicki Minaj,
same thing Kanye. Kanye heard it and he was like
Nicki's like, no, I'm monster, you can go harder than that,
and he made a write her whole ship five year
old four in has one of the best verses of
one I was whole career. I don't know if we'll

(01:16:07):
ever touched that, but it's because it's on a Kanye song.
So it's like, I think he's one of the best.
I think Kanye is. It's probably the best collaborator, you know.
I don't know who else would be. Maybe the Alchemist
is up there, you know, because the Alchemists work with
so many different people and they all slap, so maybe
that's out there. But like you know, Kanye, but that's
like playoff basketball, Kanye takes you to the chip Bingo Bingo.

(01:16:28):
So to answer the question, Kendrick or Kanye want talking
about bodies or work? I wanna, I wanna. I wanna
circle back to Jock and the beginning. He made a
Magic Johnson versus Michael Jordan comparison and how it m
is and the reason you know that from Michael, Yeah,

(01:16:49):
Michael is better Michael. Both ja Michael Jordan is better
than Magic Johnson. The reason you know that is one,
he has six chips. Two he on his first chip
against Magic. You see what I'm saying. I have to
say Kendrick has this because Kendrick one during Kanye's ever,

(01:17:11):
Kendrick still became Kendrick and solidified himself while Kanye is
still releasing music, While Kanye is still out here being
a force. It's not like we're dealing with a washed
up Kan. Kanye still releasing music. I don't agree with you,
but I do like the argument. Yeah, that was a
cute effort effort, but like because they were forgetting like

(01:17:33):
Jesus right with good reason, you're but the thing is like,
but the thing is I don't like I don't I
mean like I didn't like Jesus, but I feel like
as Jesus got better with time and not enough time. No,
Jesus is not Yes, just by itself is not better
like any single album and Kendrick's resume, but Y just

(01:17:53):
pushed forward this maximalist like but also minimal aesthetic that
Travis Scott was the helm of, and Travis Scott was
up until November, Travis Scott was probably one of the
biggest rappers in hip hop. This rage this like bombastic,
huge sounding ship like because of Jesus, right, like you
know what I mean, Like it's I feel like he's

(01:18:14):
just like Life of Pablo. Right, that introduces an album
that's like constantly being changed, right, which is constantly and
the stadium listening parties. Right. Also using Young Thug at
a time when Young this is when Young Thug could
release stick right, right, Like Young Thug at the time
was still considered a mumble rapper. What his Young Thug
even saying? But Kanye is using Young Thugs in that way, right,

(01:18:35):
you know, and like you know then like you have
yea right, Like yes, yeah, I get it, I get it.
But I really believe Kidsy Ghost is a wonderful defend
reborn right, you know the most you know what I mean,

(01:18:58):
like the most. I'm telling you need to listen to kids,
He goes again, I'm so serious because I just listened
to it, and the fact that it was it was
only seven songs, especially at everybody's releasing forty songs and
all those and everything, all of those songs, right Daytona
right was great? Right, But like that was but I

(01:19:19):
think Kids He Goes is the best project released in
that Yeah, I really podcast. Hey, Um, Dave you got
any hot honey, I'm gonna eat this microphone. Well I've
heard enough tomato. Tomato tomato has been a pleasure to
pleasure things to happen. It's been a long time. I'm
gonna make it. So. I love that you were able
to come here talk some hip hop, share some ideas,

(01:19:41):
and I'm glad that the world got to experience your
mind on this topic. Um, I've always felt um, I've
always felt uh great joy and like it's just like
a privilege to sit on the grape vine or just
sit in conversations and trade ideas back and forth. So
the fact that the world got to hear it, UM
so happy. Please tell to people what you have going on,

(01:20:03):
where they can follow you, how they can support Jacques. Um,
I have a podcast with seven tracks. Podcast is dropping
in a couple of weeks. Basically interview people about the
musical journeys of their lives. So the Songs that Grew
Up to Love to Lost to Mouse is my second
episode last year. Um, so that was really good and um,
you know, JUSTO, he's not tooting his own horn. It

(01:20:23):
does a damn good job of that in that podcast.
It's not just hey, I'm talking. Hey, I'm asking you questions,
like he fucking paints like I told him a story
and then like hearing the episode back when he put
all the pieces in there, it was like it takes time,
but yeah, I get yeah, yeah, and the shots. I
have a great editor of Jamal pad Moore, and I'm
working with this new kid, know him Fleischman who's editing.

(01:20:44):
So but like yet the idea is like how to
hear the song as you're talking about it, so um yeah,
and then doing that and then um, you know, posting
a couple of things, freelancing, you know, making the TikTok's,
the vibes. What could they follow you at jam morel
Underscore Junior, I have a Haitian flag in my name.
We were the first to do that. We were the
first was the first to put the Haitian flag in

(01:21:05):
his instagram, right, like you know, you know, but I
don't have a flag. I mean there's a reason why,
like you know that they didn't want to get into this,
but it's because Haitians were there. The only successful Slavor
Vault in history. We were the first and the reason
part of the reason why, like you have to like
all these other countries would want to keep Haiti downs

(01:21:26):
because the idea of free black nation was impossible, right
Like this was not like unheard of, so like of course,
like all these other these are the different Caribbean aisles, right,
Like you have all these white people talking down on
Haitian people, which translates into coming here and other people
talking down and Haitian people when at the as it stands,
the Haitian Revolution is the most perfect example. It's an

(01:21:47):
anagram to the American Revolution, which happened seven years before that. Right,
So anyways, that's my one thing. But um, yeah, you
can find me at Moon Score Jr. Yeah, with the
Haitian flag. Got coming up, gang coming up. I wasn't
ready for this. Um, let me think it makes you guys.
Stream to mix tape pretty moody on audio and benjam

(01:22:09):
mannam is nice. She dropped a mix tape on audio
mac and everything was and everything was produced by your pops. Yeah,
my dad produced. No, really, that's fine. It's not a game.
She's not a game. Yeah, shout out to my dad. Yeah,
and he's really the reason why I have such a

(01:22:31):
good shase. So shout out to my dad. Happy to
work with him on that, as he's proud of your Lauren.
He'll take what was your Lauren? He'll take what are
you saying? What I don't have about Lauren? He'll take terrible?
What what is it? We'll get to that next week.
Education of Lauren Hill is better than what oh Mary's
the first album? No, What's the four one one? It

(01:22:53):
is a terrible tape. It's not a terrible take. And
then I actually did a pull on it on Instagram
and Lauren one by a long shot because I have
more people in the same lane though, because like one
of the R and B, but they're both on the albums.
I mean they have the same amount of rapping on it.
This this is true because she's the intro of What's
the four one One? Is very rapping. Yeah, and then
you have a grandpoop by verse somewhere on there. Yeah,

(01:23:16):
it has the same amount of rapping, all right. And
then if you want to talk about impact, since you
love impacts, it definitely goes to laurenca y. Yeah, yeah,
but we're telling my album. But it's also because Lauren
is like what she hasn't really dropped. You don't even
have that mis Education album doesn't even exist. It's not
for fucking Mary J. Block. What were you talking about? Okay,

(01:23:38):
back to the earlier, Yeah, that's false. Let's get out
of here because I'm about to argue to be block. Y'all.
We'll see your next Monday piece, like going on. You
gotta wrap aroke coming in by time I tell you
what I have going on this weekend, you already missed it,
So you miss Trapped Karaoke New York City. That's the
way we entered the talk shows back to back s

(01:23:59):
O B. If you want to see you next time,
we're back on tour track karaokee dot com. Follow at
track Karaoke. Um, you followed me at mel Jong, but
I don't care about nothing else. To make sure you follow,
subscribe and listen to What hip Hop Questions Legends and
list shout out to the Black Effect Family. Peace. Don't
miss an episode of the What hip Hop Questions Legends

(01:24:19):
and list listen to subscribe on the Black Effect podcast Network,
I Heart Radio, app or wherever you get your podcasts.
The What hip Hop Questions Legends and List podcast is
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and our
executive producer is Darren Byrne and produced by A King

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