Spiritual Friendship with Jay Shetty

Dwyane sits down with bestselling author, podcast host and life coach, Jay Shetty to discuss his time living as a monk, transitioning his learnings to the "real world" and what he does when he is with his friends. The two talk about how to practice stillness in life, spiritual awakening as well as understanding yourself and others. They also get into their passions for movies, video games, pickleball and tattoos. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Very excited to have this guest that I have Leanna
to sit next to and be able to spend some
time with someone who I got an opportunity, opportunity to
go on his podcast two years ago in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
We had a little Wi Fi situation, but we got
through it.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm going to read a little bit of intro,
but he don't need an intro.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Really, I think we all know who this gentleman is.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
But today we have an ex monk which we would
talk about turn life Guru. He's a number one New
York Town's bestselling author, award winning podcast host of On Purpose,
Chief Purpose Officer of Calm and purpose driven entrepreneur. Everybody
please welcome to the y the incredible He's a legend

(01:02):
in our household.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Jay Sheddy, thank you man.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Such an honor to be here. I'm so grateful to
be here. And that's such a sweet, kind introduction and
it means the world to me. Honestly, I could feel
in your voice and I received that, and I can
honestly say you're a legend in our household that had
your wife do and I think it was amazing when
you came on the show. Despite the Wi Fi difficulties,

(01:27):
the way you came through and the way you connected
were so powerful.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
So thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
No, of course, of course, I just said that you're
a legend in this space, like I'm in people households.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Does that feel weird? Does that sound weird? Does it
get old?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Do you understand why?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Like you know, I mean like I'm a legend in
people households and that I've never been into.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
I mean I should ask you that question. You should
be the one answering that question. I feel like I'm
just trying to be a spiritual friend to everyone in
my community, Like that's my goal. My goal is to
be someone in your network, in your world that gives
you little reminders, little nudges, pushes you in the right direction,

(02:08):
but does it in a friendly, loving, kind, compassionate way.
Because I feel we're all so good at being harsh
with ourselves, we're all so good at being pressurizing with ourselves,
but we're not good at being kind and graceful with ourselves.
And I feel like if you have a friend who's
that way with you, maybe you'll learn to be that
way with yourself. So to me, all I ever aim

(02:30):
and aspire to be is everyone's spiritual friend. And if
I can be that, then I'm very satisfied here.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I talk well, I speak about that a lot. Right
You're at this point in life where one you only
want to be associated with people that are willing to
give you grace, right Like, just for me in life
as I grow older, I'm like, man, I only want
to be around people that understand that, you know, there's
no perfection here, that is in perfection here, and I

(02:55):
need grace just like I'm willing to give grace. And
you know, so I always I talk about that a lot.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's like a message that me and my guys that
we always you know, making sure that we keep you know,
the top of mind is, you know, is grace and
giving grace and you know, hoping to receive it, you know,
from the ones that you want to receive it from.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
And so it's really it's really important.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
How do you And I might be asking questions that
like I want people to ask the fee, but when
you go around the world, everyone is pretty much taken
from you. And I'm not saying that they don't pour
into you because of their ask of what you do,
and they love of what.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
You do, but everyone is coming to you for a
question or to get an answer.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
How do you pour into so many people's cup randomly,
just everywhere you go.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah, I think going back to your first question, it
connects to this one. The real legends are my teachers
and my guides, my mentors, the monks that I've spent
time with, the people that I get poured into from.
And I feel like you can only keep giving and
key growing if people keep giving and growing you. And

(04:03):
so I think you've always got to remember to be
a student. You've always got to remember to go back
to the basics. You've always got to remember to go
back to the beginning. And I think for me, I'm
constantly trying to absorb that energy from my mentors and
teachers and guides so that I can channel that. And
I think the mistake comes when you feel like you're
pouring from yourself. I think if it just becomes about you,

(04:26):
we're limited, We're fallible. I'm limited and fallible. I'm imperfect.
But when I'm gaining from so many different oceans than
I can too be a river. And I think for
a lot of us, we're trying to be the ocean,
and then you just dry up because you're.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Going to run out.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
There's only so many people you can be that way for.
And so I have my days. I have days when
I'm feeling dry, and I have days when I'm feeling weak,
and I feel those are the days when I have
to go deeper within myself. I've got to reconnect with
the source and then be able to push that back
out there. And so I always remind myself when I

(05:02):
meet someone, though, that I'm really grateful for the kinds
of things people say. You just introduced me to a
couple of members of your family and your team here,
and I can't not stop pause and be grateful to
hear those words and try and share that love back
because someone chose And this was my intention when I started,

(05:23):
when I started creating what I do today, I never
believed in a million years that someone would choose to
watch it over a TV show or over something else,
but they do. And so I want to honor that
soul and be like, you're amazing for making this choice
and decision that you chose to watch something that was
built to elevate you, even if it wasn't a fun
entertainment or fun escape. And so to me, when I

(05:44):
hear that, I allow myself to receive it. I think
there was a moment in my career early on where
I'd be like, oh no, yeah, you shy away from it.
You'd be a bit modest. You're like, oh, it doesn't matter,
Oh it's cool. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And
then you realize, actually, someone's sharing love with you. And
the way you keep being able to give love is
if you allow yourself to receive it. And so for me,
just stopping being present, pausing and taking it in allows

(06:06):
me to give it back and share it with others.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, I think you just said something so important and
it's something that I've had to come to grips with it.
In the sense is when people do say the things
they say to you and they do approach you, whether
it's you know, it's something that you've changed their life,
You've changed the way they think, and you've you helped
someone in there and their family, it's one of their
loved ones. However you've done it. It's really this word
humble and being humble. Sometimes you can be a little

(06:31):
too humble. It's like, no, actually take your flowers, you know,
what I mean, don't be so bashful away from trying
to be too humble and actually take your flowers, but
also understand what it is that you bring to this world, yes,
and the impact that you have on this world, because
you know, if you understand it and you know it,
then it's easier for you to go and do it
right and also to receive it right, which is hard

(06:53):
for us to receive that kind of you know, acknowledgement
about you know something, and so I think it's very
important to do that.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I wonder someone you know in your space.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Very similar to me is I've had coaches pretty much
my entire life, right, I've had people who help me accountable,
have teammates to help me accountable. And as hard as
it is to play with others and win with others
and follow other.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
People rules, it's also easy too.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Because you have people motivating you, pushing you, and people
you don't want to let down.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Who are those people outside of your family. Who are
the people that you need.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
To pour into you and that you reach to and say, hey,
I'm depleted, I need something, I need you, I need
a Who are those people for you?

Speaker 4 (07:37):
The number one answer is definitely my monk teachers. I
was literally with one of my monk teachers on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
So you still, I'm fully connected to.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
Them because I feel like they're the ones who keep
me grounded, because for them, it's almost like the world
I'm in now, it's so disconnected and distant, and they
don't value it in the same way. They value what
you're saying like they value someone who's rooted and grounded
and connected. And so you need someone outside of your
world to keep pulling you back to that place. And
so I find that they keep me in check. They're

(08:08):
honest with me, They're able to notice things inside of
me even before I notice them. And then my job
is only to be transparent and open enough to receive
it from them. And as long as I do that, Okay,
that's hard. Sometimes it's the hard part sometimes, right, Look,
it's so easy to get carried away. And I find
that for me when I'm with my teachers and my mentors,

(08:29):
because they've been there for my whole life, like yours,
you also have like decades of a relationship there.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
There's like a real.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Brotherhood, and so you know that this person is only
saying it for your own good. And I think that's
been a really important part for me with mentors is
I'm surrounded by people who I believe are saying things
to me because they want me to be better, and
they're not doing it to bring me down or hold
me back. They're not doing it because they're envious, scared, fearful,

(08:59):
insect cure. They're doing it because they see potential in
me that I don't see in myself. And so for me,
my monk teachers are definitely a big part of it.
I say my wife. I mean, you said no family,
but I think you know a part from my parents.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
But my wife is a.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
Big person who I turn to for advice. I feel
like she's so honest with me. I don't know if
you have the same experience.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah it could. I don't want you to be that up.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah tell me right, Yeah, I agree with that. There
are days and I'm like, yeah, you didn't have to
tell me that right now. This is a sensitive time.
But I know that she's always going to be honest
with me, and that's huge. So I turned to her
for sure, and then I'm always searching. I think one
of the reasons why I love doing the podcast is
because I get to sit down from people and get
free advice from the greats. Like I said, like you've

(09:45):
been on the show, it's it's an opportunity for me
to mind from anyone and everyone and apply. You've had
a completely different life experience than I have, completely different background,
completely different walks of life. But I know that there
are things you've taught me and things that I've learned
from me that I can apply in my life. And
I think that is the joy of this platform. That
is the joy of having conversations with One of my

(10:07):
mentors would always say you need to have more open, random,
and supportive relationships. He said that as you age, you
become more closed, selective and controlling. And he said, if
you become more closed, selective and controlling, you actually lose
your edge. But he said, what made you who you
were in the first place is that you were open, random,

(10:28):
and supportive. And so I feel having random conversations the
people you never talk to, you never meet, you never
bump into on the street, like, those are the kind
of conversations that we need more.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Do you feel that every conversation that you enter that
someone is that they need a word from you? You know,
you do you feel like every conversation you have to
be on.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, so that's a great question.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
So there was a time in my life where I
felt like if I didn't say something profound, people would
walk out the room. Like I was like, I felt
that pressure. And what I found is if you have
the pressure to say something profound, you rarely will say
something profound because all you're doing is being paralyzed by
the pressure. And so that stress. Definitely, I had that
for a while. And I think as you get more

(11:12):
comfortable with yourself, and as you get more comfortable in
your space, you start to realize all you can do
is be present. And so now instead of pressurizing myself
to say something profound, I'm like, just be here, just
be present, just actually listen, and then maybe you'll say
something that helps someone, and maybe you'll say something that
everyone laughs at. And the truth is it doesn't matter

(11:33):
because that's all you had to give anyway.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
And so I think now.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
I would consider myself to be more comfortable in that
discomfort and that uncertainty. But I think in the beginning,
definitely I felt like a lot of pressure. But now
I'm just like, I want to be around people that
I can just be around and you know, I like
a lot of normal things too. So I think people
get surprised when I say, like I like playing NBA
two K or I like I like playing Pe. Why

(11:56):
do you think that, yeah, the person, Yeah, because people
just I think we live in a world like probably
similar to you. Like you get bossed. So you're an athlete,
you're a basketball player. That means you can't have interest
in whatever. I don't know what you can tell me
what you get judged about. But for me, it's like, oh,
you used to be a monk. Even though now I'm
married and we have businesses and we have adventures and

(12:18):
we have purpose driven you know, ideas and ideation. You
get boxed like oh, this used to be your life,
so then you can't have normal interest. And I'm like, no,
I love NBA to get I love FIFA. I love sports.
It's a massive part of my life. I love movies
and massively into movies. I love movies and entertainment. So
there's so many normal things. And so now I've realized
that I want more relationships where I can flip between

(12:40):
playful and profound. So I want to switch with people.
I want to be able to talk about the latest game,
and then I want to talk about a verse from
a scripture that someone hasn't read. And I enjoyed those
relationships because that, to me is genuine and authentic and
true to who I am, as opposed to just having
to play one side of me. So I try and
avoid relationships where I feel people can't accept and access

(13:03):
all parts of myself. And so for those who listen
to my podcast or whatever, they know, I'm addicted to
all this other stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
So it's good.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Like I'm glad, Yeah, I was, you know, I'm glad
you said that I was going on.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I was thinking of.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Like monks right from what from I grew up in
the inner city of Chicago, and so you hear about
certain people, places and things you may never see them
or never experience them. I don't know if you feel
this way, but I kind of feel this way. You've
given monks a face. You've humanized what most people don't

(13:37):
know even you know know of besides what people say
of what a monk is and what they do, and
and so I feel like you kind of have given
you have birth to face to it in society that
we're all watching and we're in I'm not saying you
know everyone who really knows in.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
The community, but the community who do not know. Do
you feel that do you feel have you.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Felt the pressure of that, of being the face of
you know, of a monk.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
That's a great question. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
I think I really struggle with it when I went
through my transition, because it's almost like you had an
identity for three years, right, I was among for three
years of my life, dedicate service and practice, and then
all of a sudden you have to transition, and now

(14:25):
the rules of the games have changed in that you're
in the real world and different things matter.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
And though three years is like, is that the three
years you like, did your time and did you move on?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
No?

Speaker 4 (14:36):
So, I mean some people do it for their whole lives,
and some people do it for different periods of time.
So I did it for three years, not as a commitment.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
I thought I was going to do it for.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
The rest of my life, but I only made it
three years. I guess there are some people like that
in the NBA. They're like, thought they were going to
be professional basketball, have an amazing career like you, or
they didn't make it right and so so some like
my monk mentors have been months for like thirty four years,
and so they've done it for like, you know, decades,
and then there are people like myself who've done it

(15:06):
for a short period of.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Time in a deep way, but then moved on.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
And so for me, it's definitely pressure because, like I said,
like so much of my life has changed today, and
it's also changed while I was teaching and sharing and guiding,
and so it's complex because I think we like to
think of life as like before and after, but actually
life cyclical and it's just constantly moving and changing. So

(15:31):
I didn't know when I started this that it would
get anywhere, let alone where it is today. And you're
kind of living your own life and then you're dealing
with the perception change in your own mind, and then
everyone else has their perception of you and they're going
through that as well, and so I think it's really
complex and it's quite layered and complicated and hard. And
so I think for me, accepting that I was no

(15:55):
longer among but that I could still have certain mindsets
that monks have was where I found my happy place
and that is still something i'm practicing today. So I'll
give it a practical example. So a big part of
thinking like a monk, And that's why I wrote a
book called Think like a Monk, not.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Live like Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
The reason I wrote a book called Think like a monk,
not Live like a monk, was because nine percent of
people are never going to live like a monk. And
even I today no longer live like a monk. But
imagine you could learn to think like them. Imagine you
could learn to access the piece, the purpose, the intention.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
So can everyone live like a monk? No? But can
everyone think with intention? Yes? Can everyone live like a monk?

Speaker 1 (16:43):
No?

Speaker 4 (16:43):
But can everyone think with purpose yes? Can everyone live
like a monk?

Speaker 3 (16:48):
No?

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Can everyone serve with the mindset of thinking about how
to benefit improve people's lives?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (16:56):
And so that's what I wanted to share with people,
was this idea. And so it's it's a daily it's
a daily battle for me. It's a daily challenge for me.
It's never easy because I left eleven years ago and
my life has changed so much. But I'm still trying
to live by those ideals internally, even though my external
life is different.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Do those ideals do they evolve? Do they change?

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Do they grow, or is it the pillars are the
same and nothing changes.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Like that's a great question. That's such a great All
of these are great questions. By the way, I've never
been asked what's brilliant about this is I've talked about
this space in my life so much.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
I've never been asked these questions. Is a great Let
me think that's a really that's a really profound.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
You're saying, like, eleven years removed, you're still trying to
use the principles you know of a monk and everything
you learned, and so I just I guess I kind
of say, like, Okay, eleven years removed, is it just
still the same principles? Have these principles evolve and the change?
Have a new one came in?

Speaker 5 (17:57):
Or so?

Speaker 4 (17:59):
What I found is that there's no new principles. You
just realize the same principle more deeply. So it's not
that you're discovering a new idea. It's the same idea,
but now you discovered a deeper layer of it. And
I find that to be incredible because in one sense,
when I lived as a monk, this was all theory,
and then when you have to apply it in the

(18:20):
real world, it becomes real life.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
It's like training versus the real game. Right when you're
in training, you can.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Practice your free throw, your three point or whatever it is,
and then in the real game, all of a sudden,
you've got two guys in front of you. You got
it whatever, right, So I think for me, what I
learned in those three years was almost theory. And then
when I came into the real world and I put
it in to practice, it worked, and I was like, wow,
this is real, Like these powers are real. And so
for me, I've gained more faith, more determination, more belief

(18:49):
in what I learned in that time because I've seen
it play out in the real world. And so I
don't think I've learned new principles, but the principles have
deepened and become more realized. And I think that was
something we always talk about, which is applied wisdom is
so much better than just academic wisdom. Like this idea
of anyone can repeat averse from scripture or quote something,

(19:11):
but it's like when you actually have to live it
in the real world with real precious that's when you
test the idea.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
We could tell it, we could tell people what to
do all day.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, exactly when we have to do them. And that's
how I felt.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
That's how I felt in the last eleven years since
I've left, that I actually have to live the principles
and they worked.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, just as you were saying that, I just
went back to, like before I got to the biggest
stages and the work behind the scenes that I was
told from my coaches that I needed to do. I
didn't know that I needed needed to do these things,
but I listened to my coaches. In the same time,
I roll my eyes, I'm like, I don't need to
do this. You know, you don't know if it's going
to work. You just kind of you know, the shades

(19:52):
are closed, the doors are locked, you know, no one's
around you, and you're working, but you don't know if
it's really going to work until you have to go
put it into practice, right, and then that first moment
when you put it into practice and you see that
the work that you put in is actually it actually works.
Now it becomes you become a fiend to like, oh, like,
what else what else can I work on? What else

(20:14):
can I actually put into play that works? So this
feels good?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
So Think Like a.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Monk is an incredible book, and it was something you
said in here and I wanted to to read it.
It said, monks can withstand temptation, refrain from criticizing, deal
with pain and anxiety, quiet the ego, and build lives
that brim with purpose and meaning. First of all, I

(20:53):
was like, ain't that what we all trying? Shouldn't we
all try to do that?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Right?

Speaker 1 (20:59):
And so when I when I read that and the
way that it was put, I never thought to myself, oh,
I want to practice being a monk, or I know
I want to be a monk. But I looked at
that and I said, well, I want to be that, right,
Like those are those are the pillars in life, like
I'm trying to strive to be able to like, how
do you refrain from criticizing that? You know how hard

(21:20):
that is for people to refrain from criticizing. And so
I just thought that was that was very telling and
I wanted to read that for people out there that
may not understand. You know, if no one has really
not even just looked up anything they can find on
social about a monk, but actually know someone or actually
have practice themselves, then they don't understand what the real
meaning of these words are. And this is true meaning,

(21:42):
this is true power of yourself. I feel to be
able to refrain from certain acts. It's one of the
hardest things to do.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I really appreciate you sharing that and
the fact that your reaction was I want that.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's that was my hope because I think, you.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
Know, like I would grow up in the world, you
see the rich list being published, and then you've got
people looking up to that going, oh, I want to
be on that list one day. And so imagine if
people had a character list where you go, I want
to be that one day, right.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Like, it's a totally different thing.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
And so I think when you think about if someone
wanted to learn how to play basketball, if they came
to learn from you, chances are that they're going to
learn at a mastery level. And so the reason why
we turn to monks is because all they care about
is mastering those things you just read. That's why you
turn to them, because that is their occupation, that's what
they're dedicated to. And this isn't about my life, Like

(22:38):
when I wrote the book Think like a Monk, It's
not about my life. It's about the lives and the
studies of monks from all different traditions, And so to me,
the fact that for decades they've just focused on mastering criticism,
chances are you'll be able to learn that from them.
So one of the things, one of the practices we
used to do, which I loved, was every time you

(23:01):
wanted to criticize someone, you first had to think of
ten good things about them, and you had to rack
your brain to write down ten things you actually admire
about them. And that was a practical challenge, but it
was a good one. And if you had to do
that every time, all of a sudden you start going, oh,
everyone's actually gray.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right right. You have this, you have this idea that
like someone is just good or just bad.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
And then when you start doing that exercise, you start going, oh, like,
people are far more layered, people are far more complex,
people are far more new ones. And by the way,
I only think they're bad because I'm looking at it
from this angle. But maybe if I turned it around
that way, then maybe they'd feel the same way about me.
And so I think that was a huge principle. Another
thing I loved. Every time we try and criticize someone

(23:45):
was before you did that, you had to see where
that hypocrisy or that characteristic existed within you, and.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
So where is that?

Speaker 4 (23:53):
So if you're judging someone for judging someone, then you
just realize you're judging someone to where can you pause
and go, well, wait a minute, where does that exist?
Now that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in them, and
this doesn't This is not about creating space for bad behavior.
That's not the point of it. The point of it
is to ask yourself so that you can also uproot
it within yourself, because chances are the reason you see

(24:14):
it in someone so clearly is because you've seen it before.
There's a familiarity you have with it, which is why
it even triggers you in the first place. And that
was the third step, which is like, if something about
someone triggers.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
You, ask yourself, why is that?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Right?

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Does it remind you of a parent? Does it remind
you of someone who treated you badly early on your life?
Does it remind you of an ex And where is
that coming from?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Because do you believe the things that you believe?

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Exactly, And so to me, just even that one tiny
area can be such a rich beautiful conversation. And you know,
there's a I think it's Eleanor Roosevelt that has that
quote that says, big minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people in the negative sense. And so

(25:01):
I always say to people, you have two choices. When
you're talking about people. You're either talking in criticism and envy,
or you're talking in understanding and study. So if you're
talking about people and you're talking about understanding and study,
you're winning. If your conversation about people is criticism and envy,
then then you're creating a lose lose for everyone.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Oh what's social media about to go down there?

Speaker 6 (25:24):
Wall?

Speaker 5 (25:26):
This is such a great conversation.

Speaker 6 (25:28):
And you actually kind of stole my my thunderworld about
the because I you have this perception of what a
monk is or what you think a monk is growing up,
you know from especially where we're from. So when I
found out you were that kind of I'm like, WHOA,
that's that's so cool. Now these years, since you stop
practicing as a monk in eleven years, does it get

(25:52):
harder to keep that up for you?

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Because the further you are from doing it, you getting deeper.

Speaker 6 (26:00):
Deeper layers, but the world is still getting bigger or smaller,
however you look at it.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, is it get harder.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, I think at one point. I mean I think
the honest answer is, of course it gets harder, but
it also gets more powerful. And what I mean by
that is, once you've practiced and trained at one point,
you have to go out into the battlefield, and in
the battlefield you get wounded, but the wounds remind you

(26:29):
of how much more you need to focus on the practices.
So every time you go out you get hit, you
know it's a flaw. You know it's the ego still arising.
You notice yourself being critical of someone else, You recognize
you lost your self awareness. Now all of that reminds
you to take deeper shelter and practice more deeply. And

(26:50):
so I think it's harder because you almost are exposed
more and you notice your flaws and weaknesses more. But
the point of knowing seeing that more is to practice more.
And as the same way in a game, right Like
to me, it's like if you go into the game
and someone just you know what the.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Floor with you, chances are you're good.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
After that, you're going to go back and go, all right,
I need to work on this, this and this right right,
And so I think it's the same mindset of I
feel today. I see my weaknesses more clearly, but that
makes me want to work on myself more as opposed
to feel weaker or give up.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
And so there's a.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Pain in the fact that it gets harder, but there's
a joy in the fact that I'm getting stronger and
more self aware and know what I need to work on.
And I think we were always taught to relish the battle.
That was the that was the idea that I think
sometimes in life we're looking for freedom from the battle,
but that actually doesn't exist. That's like saying, was there

(27:52):
ever a game where you went out there and it
wasn't a fight?

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (27:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
You can tell me, yeah, somebody you watch the fluid,
So who is that?

Speaker 2 (28:02):
There was a couple of teams.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
With these these things that meaning you just.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Go, look, there's the things at the bottom of the conferences.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
But you get the point of making definitely the idea
of like, the fight is going to be there, and
so all you can do is learn to relish the fight.
You can't hope that the fight will end tomorrow. There's
always going to be a battle within, there's going to
be a battle without. And so if we live in
this world of I want to be in a place
where there's no battle, you could be waiting forever, you know,

(28:39):
And and I think that's that's that's the challenge, is
waiting for the day for it to be over, not
realizing that actually, let's learn to reliship. Let's learn to
let's learn to find our strength in that.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
And one thing I love and I think I've discovered
it's something about by doing these podcasts interviews, and it's
really the ones I've done that has not been athletes necessarily,
is just the commonality that we all have and that
we all share, you know. And it's like you you
just said, it's very similar to an athlete.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's why even me as a you know, if someone
played you know, I had a mother recent the other
day asked me to talk to her son because he
wanted to play basketball and she wanted to be a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
She had the idea is She's like, I wanted to
be a lawyer. I want him to focus on school.
And you know, can you talk to him and tell
him the importance of school and and so on. One end,
I'm sitting there like, yeah, like okay, Like the kid
may feel like you don't believe in his dreams, like,
you know, is he going to be an NBA player?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean the.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Chances are very slim, right, we all know that. But
I think I went into that way. I said, well,
what sport teaches you, mom, It's all the things that
he's going to need in life. So let's not look
at it like, oh, yes, he has a dream of
making it to the NBA. All young kids and they
enjoy sports. They want to make it to the you know,
play against the best. But let's talk about what sport

(29:56):
teaches you and all the things that he's going to
learn by playing this game of sport when it comes
to teamwork, when it comes to being able to communicate
with people that are from different walks of life, don't
speak the same language, and all these things, right. And
I can just see after I got there speaking to her,
because I didn't speak to him. I spoke to her
about maybe a little bit of how your mindset when
you're trying to talk to him about playing sports. How
about you you know, you understand or you push him

(30:18):
to play sports to get the best out of the sport,
and even if he isn't the best athlete, he's going
to walk away with all the tools that he needed
to be successful, you know in life.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
That's great advice. And so that's really great advice. How
did she take it?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
She like she took a good at the end of
the night.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, and so it resonated with her and it was,
you know, it was really like, let me just let me,
let me talk to you and maybe give you a think,
a different way of thinking about it. Because he's he's
thirteen years old. He might need this structure, right, he
may need this in his life. And you know he's
gravitating to a sport for some reason.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
And so see what that reason is.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Maybe you can use that reason and something else that
he's going to gravitate to next.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
And so yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
That's great. That's great advice.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Hardest question, I mean not hardest question, easy question, I guess,
but hard to do. How do you practice stillness? Like,
you know how hard it is to be still, not
just your body, your mind, your thoughts. How do you
practice stillness?

Speaker 4 (31:20):
I'd say One of my favorite practices is called the
five four three two one method. And the reason I
like this is because it makes stillness accessible and practical
to everyone. So we learned it during our training, but
you'll also learn it in therapy today. It's a practice

(31:40):
that it's quite accessible, and like I said, you don't
have to learn something in order to practice it, which
is why I like it. So, wherever you are, all
you have to do is look around and take note
of five things you can see, and you want to
look at them more closely then you would ordinarily. So

(32:02):
you want to look at colors, shapes, shades, and try
and really immerse in the five things you can see.
This is beautiful if you do it outdoors in nature,
but you can do it anywhere. And I always say
to people that stillness to me is like a mental picture.
So if you look at a picture, it's still, and
we call them stills for a reason. And so this

(32:24):
is how you take a mental picture, which means this
is how you find mental stillness. So five things you
can see, four things you can touch, So feel the
things around you, feel the textures, the temperatures. Notice the
difference between my jacket and this chair, this microphone, this table,
your own skin, four things you can touch, three things

(32:44):
you can hear, can hear some white noise and chatter.
I can hear my breath, I can hear you, two
things you can smell, and one thing you can taste.
And so for at any moment you're struggling to find stillness,
focus on the five things you can see, the four
things you can touch, the three things you can hear,
the two things you can smell, and the one thing

(33:05):
you can taste. And if you do that, you'll immediately
access stillness because stillness simply means I am here right
now in mind, body, consciousness, spirit, and so it brings
it all together. Stillness is not experienced when your mind
feels ahead of your body. So sometimes you wake up
in the morning and your mind is racing and your

(33:27):
body's like, I just want to stand there, and so
you don't experience stillness, you're experiencing friction.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
So people think the opposite of stillness is movement. It's friction.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
It's like forces kind of battling against each other. Or
you wake up in the morning and your mind is
settled where your body's active. Your body's like I gotta
do this, got to do that, gotta do that, and
the mind's just like.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So is that being present? Like your stillness being present?

Speaker 4 (33:51):
I believe that that's the beginning point of Yeah, I
think it's the beginning point if you really ask me
how to be still. How to be still is to
be rooted in clear intention and purpose. That's real stillness, right, Like,
would we consider mind Luther King still? We'd consider him
extremely still because you couldn't move him from his purpose

(34:15):
and his dedication and his determination. That's real stillness. We
think of stillness is not moving your body, moving your mind. Yes,
real stillness is a tree like that tree is rooted
and grounded in growing, giving shade, giving fruits, giving love
and you know, shelter to birds and plants and all

(34:37):
of this kind of stuff. That tree is still, but
it's not still because it doesn't move. It's still because
it's rooted in its purpose. And so to me, that's
real stillness. But that comes from starting off with presents.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Did you what did your friends say when you came
back with this, with this stillness, with this like mindset,
Like would they clowning you?

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Like?

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, definitely?

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Well, you know I think I disconnected from a lot
of friends. I stayed in touch with a lot of friends.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
When you went off, you had to, you had to.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, there was a bit of both. There was a
bit of boats.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Like you were, there were sometimes when you were completely disconnected,
sometimes when you were a bit more connected. But there
are certain friends that are still in my life since
before and still to this day, and definitely they clowned
me for sure, for sure. Like you know, I think
banter is a big thing in England. British banters like
roasting each other. We call it banter. It so in England,

(35:32):
at least, the more you can roast someone, the closer
you are to them. And I assume it could be
similar and.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
It's very similar.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah, yeah, so that's what it's like in London where
I grew up, and so my friends would roast me
hard like it was.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
It was gosh, it was. It was the worst.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
But I think even even when I first started doing
all of this, like my friends would rostary.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
But I think that was a sign of love.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
It was a sign of closeness and it was a
sign of we're always going to treat you the same.
And I love that because I think that's what real
friendship is is we're always going to treat you the same.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
We're always going to be the same.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
And you know, don't think you're that enlightened, like you know,
see if you can tolerate this roast, and then we'll
know whether you're that enlightened.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
So yeah, they still do it now.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, they were challenging you on your practice exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
That's when you realize how not humble you are. Right,
it's easy.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Feeling humble when you're around the monks and everything, and
then you're back with your friends and they don't care.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
And so yeah, they definitely cloud me.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
So I mean, you know, obviously being a public figure,
you know, I don't know if that's what you set
out to become, but you have become one of the
biggest public figures in our world, and you hold a
you know, I would say a space in it in
something that is very important. Because we live in a
world we're all trying to find the way to something quick,
whether it's we're trying to find a way to our
destination quick, or we're trying to find a.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Way to lose weight fast. Whatever it is, we're trying
to get there.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
And so when it comes to our mental health, you know,
where you sit and helping us, you know, in the
space of learning, meditation and learning stillness and learning all
these things.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
We want that information, right, But.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I think in the middle of in the midst of that,
you kind of lose j the public loses who you are, right.
We see you as the guru, you know, And so
what do you and your homies do?

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Like what do y'all like?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Do you get a beer?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Like?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
What what do you do when you like when you
just j when your hair ain as nice as it is,
when it's a little messed up a little bit, Like
what do y'all do?

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Like?

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Yeah, I dressed up for you to be doing, because
you're always decked out. If I knew you were chilling,
I would have come chilling too. I was like, I
was like, Duane is always shop So I was like,
you know, I don't want to let him down on
his pod.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
So I'm gonna, you know, dress up a little bit.
And now when I saw you walk in, I was like,
I hope he's getting changed. That's the first thing. No,
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yeah, but no, I mean so I I still don't drink.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
I didn't drink since that time. I don't.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
I still don't drink no beer for me, But I'd
say video games is massive. So as I said, FIFA,
n NBA get together. I love, I mean yeah, and
I can. I'm competitive, so I will like headphones or
in person, in person, in person. So I love playing
with my guys, and I'm the kind of person that
wants to do all the trash talk and everything to

(38:10):
go along with it. Like I still haven't lost that edge,
I think for me, I absolutely love. I do genuinely
love being outdoors, whether it's activities, sports, anything like I've
been playing a lot of pickleball and tennis, like anything
active I'm into. Like I said, I love movies like
I love the fact that we live in LA and
I couldn't find seats to watch Challenges this weekend when

(38:33):
it came out because it was just like you just
you know everything, it's just fall.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
And I love that.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
So I love movies. I really enjoy. I mean yeah,
to be honest, it's oh, this is this is a
funny one. I love Disney World. Okay, so people are
always confused by this one, but I've bought I've drunk
the kool Aid. That is the happiest place on earth.
Like I love disney World, Disneyland, Disney World, Universal Studios.
I love all of that because, to me, the imagination

(38:58):
of walking. I'm a big Harry Potter fan. So's my
younger sister. So for her thirtieth birthday, I took her
to Universal Studios in Orlando. We spent like one day
each at each park, and it was one of the
best things I've ever done. I'm going to Orlando on Thursday,
and I've got a bit of time off, and i
was trying to find a friend to fly in just
to go to the Universal really, So yeah, So I
love just I love entering anything that makes me feel transported,

(39:21):
anything that makes me feel like I'm moving into a
totally new space and new world that was created from
someone's imagination.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
And so I love anything. And I like roller coasters
a little bit to it.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
So I love that I'm listening. I'm into the roller coasters.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
I'm the kind of roller coaster rider that when I
get to the park, I'm scared of all the ride.
Every time it's like it's like the first time, and
I'm like, I'm not getting on nothing, and then I
get on the one ride and now I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I'm that guy.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
But I go to the parkment I'm not doing nothing.
Yeah yeah, I'm just gonna be there with the kids nicely.
You know, I'm screaming. I'm out of control.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
I love that. I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
No, And I think for me, you know, it's I'm
always trying to. I try as hard as I can
through my work when I meet people to show three
sixty degrees in my personality.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
But it's hard.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Right, you see a clip on social media, you see
a tiny little clip of the podcast, and then you
have a perception of someone, and I think, again, like
we were talking about earlier, you can have such a
limited perception of someone in a thirty second clip, a
sixty second clip. I'm always trying to share the most
three sixty degree, multifaceted version of who I am because

(40:27):
that's what I believe we all are. And I think
the hardest thing I've had to do is give myself
permission to be all of myself.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
But I found.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
That that's what what resonates, right. It's like what I
realized is the world may not give me permission to
be all of myself. But I have to give myself
permission to be all of myself because I don't want
to live just one dimensionally for the rest.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Of my life.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
And by the way, I don't want to be around
anyone who lives one dimensionally, And so I'm constantly working
on saying.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
How can I show up as my full self?

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Which is why I let you in My first thought,
which is like, why is Dwayne Wade not out today?

Speaker 3 (41:05):
You know even I thought that.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Right, So I want to share that with people, so
I have normal thoughts, like I'm not sitting here only
having and lane thoughts all the time. And we've got
to get rid of that identity for everyone because first
of all, that's completely inaccessible. It's improbable, and it's impossible
for anyone to even try to get to that. So
why don't we all just let that down? But I

(41:27):
think it's hard when, like I said, I'm trying to
be abund spiritual friend, but when everyone wants you to
be their teacher that guide it.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
That's the challenge.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It's crazy that we hold people to a higher standard,
then we hold ourselves to.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
That.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
We hold other people to away higher standard, then we
hold ourselves to I talk about this. I do another
show called The Wine Down where it's just me and
the guys. We's kind of evergreen conversations. And I recently
just said that exact same thing you said. I just
I want to live a full life. And that's my goal.
That's my that's the part of my purpose is to

(42:03):
live a full life and understanding by living that full life.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Obviously each day ain't gonna.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Be pizzas and cream, right, You're going to experience this
all of what life has to offer and to give you.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
But I'm here to live a full life.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
And you know, I think people when they see you
trying to live a full life, they're.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Like, no, no, what you're doing? Why are you trying to live?
Hold on?

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I need you to do this, not what you're doing.
So you know, I love that. I love Let's once
again I like minded. You know this, and we just.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Spoke about this recently on the podcast about the full life.

Speaker 6 (42:34):
I did have one question as far as the two
of you, because you both come from different spaces and
obviously Dwayne's basketball playing with all his trophies behind them
and everything like that, but you see Jay and you
have like your infinities for what he's done, but he
sees you and for what you've done. And so what
is it like just you now in this space and

(42:57):
more and more people like Dwayne are coming to you
for all the things, and you comeing to someone else
about things that are profound that you're trying to access.
How's that exchange usually in the beginning, and how does
it develop into anything else more than that?

Speaker 2 (43:13):
So I feel for you.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, what I feel for me is do you want
to go first? One?

Speaker 4 (43:18):
What I feel for me is that it's really fulfilling
because if someone reaches out to me or connects with me,
it's because they share a value and so whether the
value is purpose or meaning or fulfillment, and so that's
what they want to build a relationship around. And I
think that's a really beautiful thing, because building a relationship
around something as high a value as that is pretty

(43:39):
rare in this world.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
So I really value it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
It doesn't matter to me who it is, the fact
that someone's saying to me that purpose is one of
their top priorities in life and fulfillment, whether that comes
from family or legacy or like you were saying, you
were advising a mom about her son, like wherever that
comes from. To me, that's one of the most rewarding
things in my life. No one's reaching out to me
for anything else because I don't have anything else to offer,

(44:04):
and I'm okay with that, Like I'm at peace with
the fact that that's all I have to offer. So
if someone wants something else, they're not coming to me,
and that's great, Like, you know, it's very clear like this,
this is what I'm offering. Yeah, And I think that
for me, I have a lot of respect for anyone
who's pushed themselves, challenged themselves, developed mindset, still carries themselves

(44:26):
with a humility and a consciousness which feels real and authentic,
and I gravitate towards that. I think for me, I
get attracted to people who have achieved incredible things but
still are grounded. To me, that's the most attractive combination
in a human being, because to me, it shows that
they still believe they can learn, and it shows me

(44:47):
that they believe that they've just simply walked in the
footsteps of other greats, and that's how I feel. So again,
we share a value and then it starts from a
place of mutual respect, and so it's evolved into great friendships,
it's evolved into great professional endeavors with people, it's evolved
into just connection of family. And you know, my wife
and I weren't born and raised in LA. We don't

(45:08):
have family here. So for us, we found a lot
of community through that as well. But it's been a
beautiful experience where it's very clear what we stand for.
So in one sense, it makes a really good what's
do our word. It's kind of like a really easy
checking system for people because some people go, oh yeah,
Jay don't like drinking late at night, so I'm not

(45:29):
going to reach out to him now, right, whatever it is,
it's just very clear and I'm good with that. Like
I don't need to go to a party or I
don't need to. I just want to spend So.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
You don't need to invite, You don't need like some
people just need to invite, even though no.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Oh yeah, I want to be where I'm where I
feel purposeful, like I always say, like I always someone
said to me one like, Jay, you always seem comfortable
wherever you go, And I said, I feel comfortable because
I know why I'm there.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Going back to the why, right, It's like.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
If I know why I'm there, then I'm comfortable. But
if I don't know why I'm there, then I probably
shouldn't be there. So I think, for me, whether I
am showing up to an event, or I am showing
up to a party, or I am showing up to
being here today, I feel like I'm clear on my why.
And if I'm clear on it, then that's great. But
if I'm not, then I won't go. And so then
the invite doesn't solve it because the invite is more

(46:14):
of a moment for me to question whether I need
to be there or not.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I should have went first. I shouldn't let my own podcast.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
I'm going to answer the question away that I think
that I want to explain it. I think for me,
you know, in this space, right, like when I was
a kid, and you have a dream, your goal is
to you want to be the best.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I wanted to play basketball and I wanted to be
the best, right, and I wanted to and to be
the best, you have to win. So I wanted trophies,
I wanted rings, I wanted champagne baths. I wanted to
feel that. And I'm so thankful that I've been able
to feel that. But I think in the midst of that,
if the feeling is so fleeting, it's really the moment

(46:57):
the day after the parade, and then it's kind of
like it's gone.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
And I worked my entire life, I've lost sleep for
this moment.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
So why someone like Jay, you know, you look at
where I am and I'm like, oh, I need.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
I need.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
What Jay has is because I'm trying to find purpose
that I thought this was my purpose. I thought my
purpose was to be a great athlete and to win,
and you know what they tell you, and then you
get out here and you're like, well, I did that,
I have this, I have that, and I still I
still I don't feel anything. And so I'm trying to
find what my purpose is. And so when I see

(47:31):
someone who is purpose driven and it can teach me
about purpose and even defining what purpose is and appointment
and direction, I'm all in because it is. I feel
like my journey now is to really live in purpose.
I've lived and and did everything I dreamed I wanted
to do from the sport I lived in and I
was like, oh wait, life still.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Goes right here like nothing else happens.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
And so that's kind of been my journey since I
retired is really it's been very intentional and very purposeful
of the things I do, the places I show up,
the people I have around me, because I'm trying to find,
at the.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
End of the day, what is my purpose on this earth?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
We all are here for a reason, and in my
seasons i'm here, I want to be purposeful. And so
that's why you go out and you find people who
you perceive as gurus and who you perceived are the
best because they can help clear it for you. You know,
they can move the trees out the way and you know,
and they can clear it for you. So that's a

(48:32):
reason why someone like me reaches for someone like Jay.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Yeah, And I love One thing I wanted to add
to that was and I love reminding people that often
when we get to that place where you've got everything
you haven't or you haven't got everything you wanted, we
often feel like, oh, my life's been a waste or
everything up until now doesn't have purpose, And actually it
completely has purpose because it's what really led you to

(48:58):
asking the question, what is my purpose or what do
I want to focus on? And so nothing's a waste
of time. No moment or career path is ever a
wasted journey because it brought you to that exact point
similarly as mind did. And so I don't know how
much you guys like movies or how much you're watch them,
but yeah, so you everyone. Have you seen the Liam

(49:21):
Neeson movie Taken?

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Right? The old school right? So Taking is a.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
Great example of what I mean by this. So he
loses his daughter's attention and love because he's too busy
being a security guy right on along those lines. But
then it's those same skills that win his daughter back.
And so in the same way, as you've developed all
these skills and mindsets that led to all of this greatness,

(49:46):
at one point it kind of feels what was it
all for? But it's going to be the same skills,
the same mindsets, the same platform that's going to help
you live your purpose and win your daughter back in
that in the purpose sense.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
And so it's like this really beautiful trade off.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Like how we think it's a oh no, no, no,
I need a hone new set of skills and I
need to hold it. I'm like, no, no, no, Actually
it's using those same skills that you've owned, and just
we directing them this way.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
So much opens up.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
So I love that you're right.

Speaker 5 (50:15):
That right makes sense.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
I mean it kind of goes back to something recently
we talked about on one of my podcasts, Regret, Right,
we talked about regretting. We all have our different versions
and you know, places that we have regret at. But
then you come back and you ask the question, well
would you change anything? And sometimes like, well no, I
wouldn't change it. And it's like, well, what do we

(50:37):
regret it if you're not willing to go back and
now if you could change it, Because a lot of
reasons why you won't change it is because you are
where you are because of exactly the sacrifices that was
made to you know, allow that regret to creep in.
Because normally regret keeps saying because you're not able to
be something for others or someone that they need or

(51:00):
that you want to be, and so you have regret.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, regret is just regret, is just
reflection that's still stuck in pain. And so when you
start shifting from that pain to purpose, then that regret
turns into healthy reflection. So regrets, just reflection, still stuck
in pain and stress and trauma and pressure. And when
you rise out of it, like you said, you realize

(51:23):
I'm here because of all of that.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah, how do you handle highs versus lows? Like I
would I be able tell if you are at a
high or you at a low? Like do you show

(51:46):
it on your face? Respression?

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Like I would say that the people who spend a
lot of time with me and know me well, they
would tell for sure, for sure, like I don't think.
I think In the past, I used to see hiding
it as a strength, and now I see hiding it
as a weakness because I found that if I'm not
willing to show the people that love me deeply that

(52:08):
I'm human, then who will I show? And then that
circle just gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,
And now you can't even show yourself that you're human.
And that feels really lonely. And I don't want to
feel lonely. And that's what I've realized that the reason
why a lot of people feel lonely is because we
don't show our pain to the people that love us,

(52:31):
and therefore we don't feel heard, seen, understood by those people,
and that's what it means to feel lonely because I
never let you in. I never showed you that weakness.
So whether it's my chief of staff on my team,
or I'm really close to and she's been with me
for a long time, whether it's obviously my best friends
from back at home, or whether it's my wife who
I've been with for eleven years now. Like those people,

(52:54):
whether it's professional or personal, they can see it. And
I think if we spend more time together, you'd see
it too, because I want you to see it, and
I want you to see it not because I'm trying
to teach or make a point. I want you to
see it because I think that's when we can truly
say we're getting to know each other. And of course
I don't think everything's for everyone to see either. I

(53:17):
think we live in a world today where vulnerability means
somehow that you have to tell everyone everything and show
everyone everything you have. Yeah, And I don't think and
I think that's too extreme too. Like so one extreme
is I'm not going to show anyone anything, and the
other extreme is I'm going to show everyone everything.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Life has rarely lived well in.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
Either extreme, and so I'm going to show some people
some things and I'm going to show other people other
things based on their role and their part in my
life and the way I handle highs and lows.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
That was your question.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
So the way I've done that poorly in the past
with low's as I've hidden it, and the way I've
done it poorly in the past with highs is I
just moved on to what's next.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
And I used to just move on. And I'm sure
you've felt that way.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
I mean, you know, like our next championship, next, this
next ring. Yeah, it's a success mindset, what it's built on.
And I think for me in HIGHS, what I realized
was that was an opportunity not just to celebrate myself,
but to celebrate every person who got me there. To
take an opportunity to turn celebration into gratitude to each

(54:26):
and every person that got me there, whether it's family, coaches, mentors, teachers, guides.
How could I use my success as an opportunity to
celebrate others, not just celebrate myself. And I think now,
when a success happens, I usually sit down and write
who got me here? And I try and think about
the in between people. Sometimes there's even people that I know,

(54:46):
like we connect and I'm thinking, wait, how do me
and Dwayne first connect? Like who is that person? Chances
are you forgot that person. I want to find that
person and go and thank them because we're sitting here
today because someone thought it was a good idea for
us to connect to years ago, and maybe even before that,
and I've forgotten who they are because maybe it was
just an email to a team or someone else like
in between. But let me go to find that in

(55:08):
between person and thank them because I got to have
this wonderful exchange because of them, because someone had an
idea long before I did. So that's how I try
and handle my highs. I also try and handle my
highs is how does everything not have to be higher, bigger,
better now? But how can it be deeper, more truthful,
more meaningful now? Because I think as humans and as men,

(55:32):
we can just want to climb the next big mountain.
What's the bigger mountain, what's the biggest step, what's the
next hill that we're going to climb? And then you
just end up at the top of this hill and
the views a bit better, but you're still feeling lonely, disconnected,
and now you feel like you can't relate to anyone.
So I go, no, how can I actually go deeper

(55:53):
into the valley? Right, Maybe we don't need to climb
the next mountain. Maybe we need to walk downwards and inwards.
And so I try and change the journey from being
constantly outwards. And I think that comes from taking risks,
it comes from pivoting. I think what you're doing with
media and entertainment is a perfect example of that. Right,

(56:14):
you could continue in your career path and maybe you
become a coach or maybe and there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
That's great too, and maybe you will one day.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
But the fact that you decided to pivot, that shows
that there's a part of you that's searching for something else,
and that's a beautiful thing. And then with my lows,
I think my biggest thing that has helped me with
my lows is to recognize that I get a lot
of one percent experiences in life, and the universal rule

(56:46):
and law of balance means I also have to get
the one percent experiences of the low. And I can't
change that law because I'm not God, I'm not the universe,
and I'm not that powerful, and so I get a
lot of special, beautiful, wonderful experiences in life that life
is given to me. I can accept them greatly, but

(57:06):
I also have to allow the balance to exist of
the one percent of the things I don't want to experience.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
How do you cut it off? Right?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Like, if you get to a place where a lower
is looking you in the face and you're now giving
in to that low, how do you?

Speaker 2 (57:21):
How do you stop it? How do you cut it off?
How do you how do you use the practice?

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yes, right in the midst of being there?

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Yeah, I would say that for me, I have to
focus on how I feel about what's happening. And a
lot of the time we're worried about what our loved
one thinks about what's happening, or what everyone else is
thinking about what's happening. So texting our friend and checking

(57:48):
what they think about what's going on in our life,
we're texting a family member asking what they think is
going on, And to me, I have to shut down
that noise to be like, well, what do I think
about what's going on? Why do I think this is happening?
Why do they think I'm going through this and that
can be a scary thing because it's so much easier
to be comforted by everyone. But for me personally, I
find if I'm comforted by everyone, then I don't know

(58:09):
what's going on inside here. And so to me, I
find sitting in that discomfort and listening and being present
and reflecting is so powerful for me because I get
to hear my own voice, and I find that most
of my stress comes from not listening to my voice,
but everyone else's noise.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
And so that's step one.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
I think Step two for me is, now that I've
understood my voice, I want to share that with the
people that I love and trust, not in order to
get their validation or clarity or agreement, because I think
that's what we often do.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
We seek that.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
It's actually for a chance for me to learn how
to explain it in a way that feels authentic to me.
So now let me explain my struggle. Let me explain
my pain, not so that they go, oh, I fully
understand you, but in a way that I feel I've
really understood myself. And then the third and final step
is something that's been said for years by Kobe, who

(59:08):
I love, who talked about what you can change and
you can't change. I think for me, it's I make
a long list of everything I can control, everything I
can change, and then I have to tolerate the things
that can't change. Right, Like a tree can move in
the direction of the sun, but it can't change the
climate that it lives in. But it can choose to

(59:30):
move in the direction of the sun. It can choose
to deepen its roots and spread out wide and get
more nutrients, but it can't choose whether it s noose
or rains today. And so to me, some things have
to be tolerated and some things have to be transformed.
And I get really clear on both of those because
most of my stress comes from things I'm tolerating that

(59:52):
I should be transforming, or things that I'm trying to
transform that actually need me to tolerate them. And so
that's where the balance is lost.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, I cannot wait to listen back to this podcast.
I'm going to say. I'm going to learn so many
different things.

Speaker 6 (01:00:06):
I did have a question as far as what is
it like And obviously you're married as well, Dwayne, but
it's like, what is it like now trying to be
all these things for everyone? Else, but also be that
person for your mate every day and trying to keep
that balance because your life it's about balancing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
How do you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
That's a great question. I think there's a question my
wife wanted to know. Yeh, like, how do you do that?
I go first on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
It is a great question because I think it's a
lot of times where you do a poor job of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
I do a poor job of it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Then there's times where I'm giving everything I feel like
I need to it, but I definitely feel that a
poor job is done often because when I and I
say to say, when I retired, right one of the
things that I did immediately right away was I decided
to like get into therapy. And the reason I decided
to get into therapy because I didn't want to dump

(01:01:06):
all the things and all the emotions and feelings that
ill ed to you know, be able to express on
the court. I want to dump one of the ones
closest to me, because that's normally where it goes. In
that same token, you know, you're trying to be all
for everyone, you know, kids, you mother, father, the world,
and in the same breath you forget the person right

(01:01:26):
right next to you and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Giving them and feeding them you know what they need.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
And so sometime it takes a little snapback for me,
you know, sometime it takes my wife to be like uh.
And it's sometimes you know, it's about the group around
Here's the people around you as well that is not
pulling you away, that's also helping you and understanding can
see at the same time, you know, he hasn't been home,
he hasn't had time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Leave him alone. He needs to put that in.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
And so to answer, I would say I've done a
poor job at times, a lot of times, and I
think at other times I'm you know, obviously I've done
an incredible job. But it's something that no one teaches you.
No one told me that I needed to be all
these things for myself and for my kids and for
this and for that and for that. And it's just

(01:02:11):
feeling of I want to be perfect and all I
want to be perfect and all of them for everyone,
but I'm only giving twenty percent over here, twenty percent
over here, twenty percent over here. So sometimes I feel
like I'm I need like I need a body.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Double right no time, I feel like I need more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
And I think that more comes from Like you said,
it don't come from just you because you get dried up.
That more comes from something else, something bigger. And so
I think that's when I'm probably my best self, when
I'm able to tap into something bigger, when I'm in
my meditation, when I'm on my work. IU was like,
when I'm on this structure, when I'm home for a
month and i can schedule everything and structure my life

(01:02:50):
and do all that, I'm giving it all. But when
I'm not and I'm on the road and i'm gone,
I do a terrible job. I'm sure of giving more,
you know, to my wife, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yeah, that's a beautiful answer.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
Yeah, I was thinking as I was listening to I
can agree with I fully agree with everything you're saying.
And I feel like I've been very lucky to marry
someone very tolerant, very patient, very accepting.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Of who I am.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
And I think I think one thing we need to
remember is that we think if someone loves us, they
should just understand us. And I actually think if you
love someone, you should help them understand you. Right, So
we think if someone loves us, they should just get us,
But if I love them, I should be helping them

(01:03:35):
understand me. And so for me, the times have been
my best is when I've actually had the courage to communicate, hey,
this week, i'm really stressed out. If I'm a little
checked out, it's not you, it's just me dealing with
some stuff. I'm sorry I said that yesterday. You know,
I just reflected on it and I just walked out

(01:03:57):
of something and I shouldn't have dealt with it that way.
When I can communicate why it happened, what happened, for
what reason it happened, because I know it was in me.
When I can actually take some time to get that,
and sometimes I won't because I don't have the time.
So some things I realized like three months later, and
I'm like, oh god, man, I said that thing three
months ago, and now it's too late, and now I

(01:04:19):
don't want to bring it back up because then there'll
be another. But it's like the more I can give
myself that space to ask myself that question. Like I
remember my wife once said to me, she said, I've
just had a really hard day, and my response was,
tell me about it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I've just had a really hard month, Oh right, And
so I was taking her.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
I was taking her moment of vulnerability and making it
about me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
But why did I do that?

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Because I had not communicated that I was having a
hard month. If I had told her that, I would
have let her have her moment, and then I would
have already had mine. But because I didn't have the
courage to expe breast that I was having a tough time,
I had to take her moment and make it about me.
And so I find that I'm at my weakest when

(01:05:08):
I'm not effectively sharing how I feel, why I feel
that way, why I acted that way, because I'm making
it either about her or I'm making about something else.
And I feel like my most powerful when I can
honestly say to her, this is why I am this way,
this is what I'm going through, and therefore, just give
me some space right be aware of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Where I'm at.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
So I still make mistakes about this all the time,
like this is not like a solved thing. But and
I find it's when I'm not giving myself the time
and space.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
I feel like Jay is like a mirror, like he
said so many things that I'm like, I'm looking inside
of this mirror and I'm like, oh, dang.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I gotta. I got some work to do as we
get to the end.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
J One question I have was about spiritual awakening. I
think I've heard it for so many people. My mom,
who's had her own journey, I think she's felt what
spiritual awakening is and that moment it taps on your shoulder.
Can you explain to me what is spiritual awakening and

(01:06:12):
how do you identify it if it's something that you
you know that you receive.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
So in order to understand what a spiritual awakening is,
we have to understand what materially sleeping is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
If you think about the term spiritually awakened, the opposite
is materially asleep. A materially asleep person is focused on
that which is temporary, that which is ephemeral, that which
is fleeting and passing how you describe some things. A
spiritually awakened person is focused on that which is ever existing, eternal, blissful,

(01:06:52):
that is ever expanding, not ever shrinking. And so to me,
a spiritually awakened state is likened to the experience of
waking up from a dream. When you're in a dream state,
everything feels real, whether someone's chasing you, whether someone broke
into your house, whether you are about to fall off

(01:07:14):
the edge of a cliff. Everything feels real. And then
when you wake up, you can actually remember that and
realize it wasn't real. And now you can actually look
at reality. You're in your bedroom, there's the window outside,
there's the sun, and you start kind of finding your
bearings again, and then you take action in the real world.

(01:07:37):
And so spiritual awakening is like waking up from a
dream state. So right now, if we're not spiritually awakened,
we're living in a dream state where everything around us
feels real and it feels like it matters. It feels fleeting.
But the truth is a dream is temporary. It's not
real because it doesn't last. And so when you wake
up from a dream state, you can actually look at reality.

(01:07:57):
And so to me, spiritual awakening is simply that feeling
of And I'm giving another movie of reference because I
love movies. You guys, see an inception. Inception is one
of my favorite movies of all time, and I love
the concept of how an inception they get stuck deep
in a dream, within a dream, within a dream. So
imagine how many dream states we're stuck into. So spiritual

(01:08:20):
awakening is like, oh, I broke one dream state, all right, broken,
now the dream stay Okay, now we broke. Now we
got the real kick and woke up from the deepest
dream state. And so spiritual awakening is also not a
one time thing. It's a consistent, layered process because we're
constantly waking up from dreams. And when I say dreams,
I don't mean dreams in the sense of what do
you want to achieve? I mean dreams in the sense

(01:08:40):
of where are you sleeping in your life and existing
in something that isn't real? And I think we've all
had that experience. Well, you thought something was real, but
then something happened to you a family member, and you
were like, no, no, no, that wasn't real.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
This is real. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
It's like if anyone God forbid, gets a phone call
that they don't want to get, it's like, all of
a sudden, everything that feels real and stuff that wasn't real.
And so I think we've all experienced that, And that's
why I like sharing that is what spiritual awakening is,
because I think we'll be able to notice that, oh,
the things I used to value, I don't value those anymore.
All the things I used to think were important, I

(01:09:15):
don't think are important anymore. The things that I used
to chase, I don't chase anymore. That is spiritual awakening
because I'm being directed to wake up out.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Of the dreams.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
It does.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
I've been on your podcast, and I'm going to have
to come back.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
We talked about this, especially after this conversation going on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
We keep doing this. You know, it's so much as
being you know, it's being learned. So I thank you
for being candidate and open to it. How I end
the podcast always is the title of it the why.
And you've obviously you've done so much to this point. Obviously,

(01:09:59):
I mean just even reading your book, just even understanding
from you know, how early in your life when you decided,
you know, to take this turn and go into you know,
being a monk and coming out of it after three
years and you know, becoming this sensation you know, uh,
YouTube and meditation and all the things that you've accomplished
to this point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
So as you sit here today and you think.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
About once you leave here, you know what you want
to accomplish going forward? What is your why and what
is your why going forward? Of the things that you
want to be to others and you know, be to yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
So my wife has always been the same as it
has since the beginning, and I feel it's still the
same today. The shape looks different, the vehicles look different,
but but the why, the root is the same and
it's I just really want to help give people access
to the ancient wisdom of the world that has either

(01:10:56):
been lost, left behind, feels inaccessible, or irrelevant, but find
a way to share it in the most engaging, entertaining,
and simple way so that people can actually live it
and feel the benefit in their lives. I believe that
there are timeless tools and habits and practices that if

(01:11:19):
anyone in the modern world today would take up, that
they would experience the shift. And I can say this
because I don't have confidence in myself. I have confidence
in these tools. They've lasted the test of time. Meditations old,
stillness is old. Being in nature is old. Like these
things have always been accessible, but if we learn how
to do them in an engaging, entertaining, elevating way, our

(01:11:43):
lives will become happier, healthier, and more healed. So my
why is how do I use the skills and the
gifts that I've been given in order to help the
world become more happier, healthier, and more healed. I can't
do what you do. I can't do what so many
other people do, and those people can't do what other
people do. And I think for me, I live in

(01:12:04):
joy knowing that I've just found my little place of
what I'm meant to do. And I hope that my
purpose can be to help other people find their purpose.
Because if everyone just did what they were meant to
do in their own way, we'd respect each other more,
we'd appreciate each other more, we'd see greatness in others
and not feel envious, but feel excited about it. And

(01:12:25):
if we all knew our space and place, then we'd
have an amazing impact. We'd be better parents, we'd be
better partners, we'd be better people if everyone knew what
their purpose was. And so that's what I'm dedicated.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Last time I seen you, we were both on Kelly Clarkson, Yeah,
And I remember telling my team as we were walking out,
and I was like, did y'all feel his presence when
he walked in the room. It was like everything just
got quiet. It was like I felt like I was
it felt like I was floating in a sense. It
was like you have this way, this touch, this energy

(01:12:59):
to spirit, and so I thought, I was like, man,
I like that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
But then someone said, do.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
You know he has a tattoo of a of a
fist and a microphone And I said, oh, really like
the Source magazine And I was like, I really really.

Speaker 4 (01:13:14):
It's it's it's actually ironic because my favorite wrapper is
eminem and then Benzino owns Source, and but I got
the Source tattoo Source logo tattooed on my neck because
I loved hip hop growing up, like that was my last.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Because I was told that the next I was told,
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:31):
If this is true anymore because I didn't go as
far as I wanted to. But my whole idea when
I was growing up was I was gonna have my
whole upper body tag. I don't but I was told
that the neck was the hardest place because it hurts
the most.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
I was like, I'm going to.

Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
Start there and if I can do that, then I'll
be able to do the rest. And so that was
the theory behind it. But I never gone very fast.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
I don't know, but yeah, man, yeah, I love wrapping
hip hop growing up. It's it's that's my favorite thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
That's why I do. I go to concerts now. I
like to go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Do you sing all all the lyrics? Like when you're
at the council did you lose your voice and just
go horse after?

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Maybe? We did go to the fifty cent concept last
year and I knew everywhere. Yeah everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I like going to concerts where I know the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Yeah yeah, ex honored, honored, Thanks for spending this time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Thanks for driving through traffic to get here.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Everybody on the why everybody please thank Jay said he
for coming on and giving us a moment.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
I appreciate you, Jay,