September 27, 2024 • 33 mins
Many of us fell in love with Natasha Rothwell through her role as the hilarious Kelli in HBO’s Insecure, and later sustained that love as she appeared as Belinda Lindsey in The White Lotus. Natasha is back on our screens, and this time, she’s starring in a show that she also created and executive-produced. It’s called How to Die Alone, and it’s currently streaming on Hulu.
I’m thrilled that Natasha joins us this week to chat about some of the major themes of How to Die Alone including self-sabotage, loneliness, and feeling as if you’re behind in life. We also discussed the significance of having a Black, female, plus-sized main character, how the show approaches tough situations such as friendship breakups, and how Natasha is managing IRL feelings of imposter syndrome while also continuing to channel “main character energy.”
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for a special bonus episode of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Everyone, I'm Natasha Rothwell and I'm so excited to be
on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where I'll be
in session talking to you about me and the character
I play Melissa on my brand new show called How
to Die Alone.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Many of us fell in love with Natasha Rothwell through
her role as the hilarious Kelly on HBO's Insecure, and
later sustained that love as she appeared as Belinda Lindsay
in the White Lotus. Well, Natasha's back on our screens.
In this time. She's starring in a show that is
also self created and executive produced. It's called How to
Die Alone, and it's currently streaming on Hulu. I'm so
(01:52):
glad to have Natasha here on the show today to
chat with me about all things. How To Die Alone
a show that explores themes such as self sabage, loneliness,
and feeling as if you're behind in life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Some points we.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Touched on include the significance of having a black female,
plus size main character, how the show approaches tough situations
such as friendship breakups, and how Natasha is managing in
real life feelings of imposter syndrome while also continuing to
channel main character energy. If something resonates with you while
enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media
(02:25):
using the hashtag TBG in Session or join us over
in the sister circle to talk more about the episode.
You can join us at Community not Therapy for Blackgirls
dot Com. Here's our conversation. So, Natasha, I am just
thrilled to be chatting with you today. A huge fan
of your work, I know that myself and many of
(02:46):
our audience fell in love with you in the Insecure
and then continue that love to the White Lotus, and
we are here to talk about maybe your greatest work
of art to date, How to Die Alone, that is
on Hulu. So tell me how did you get involved
with this project.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I started working on this project about seven and a
half years ago. I was on Insecure and I got
a development deal for a pilot and it was basically
like having the proverbial blank sheet of paper passed to
me in the meeting, and I was terrified, just truly
terrified of like, I don't know what it is I
(03:23):
want to.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Say or what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And I come out of the world of improv and
one of the biggest tenants is follow the fear, and
at the time, dying alone and wrestling with that idea
and the difference between being alone and lonely was a
huge part of what I was going through, and so
I decided to write about that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Loved it. And so did you develop the story in
conjunction with other people or was it kind of your
brain child?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's my brain child. The show is my baby for me.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I really wanted to dive deep and really sort of
approach it with as much vulnerable and authenticity as possible.
And it doesn't mean I didn't ultimately end up working
with some great people once we had a writer's room
and all of that.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But yeah, this is one of.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
The most vulnerable things that I've done, is to put
myself out in this way with the show.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, And so I'm curious how you are feeling now
with it being out in the world, because I think
when artists like create a project that is so vulnerable,
so authentic to who they are, it can be scary
to put it out. So how are you feeling and
how are you navigating that now?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I mean scary to say the least. I think.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Also, what's funny in hindsight is it took so long
to work on it, So when you sometimes lose hope
as to whether or not something gets made, you get
a little bit more brave because you're like.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No one's ever gonna let me make this. And so
ultimately what got.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Green lit was a lot of brave shit on the page,
and so I was like, well, I got I gotta
do this now. But I'm feeling very blessed. I'm feeling
very grateful. It's over to be back in New York
for press. I live in LA but I used to
live here, and that's why the show takes place in
New York. And so it's strange to be here doing
(05:10):
a press tour for my own show. And I see
the ghosts of my youth and how broke I was
and how hard it was for me in New York
and just grinding trying to make a dream happen, and
so it's very surreal. It's very surreal to be back,
and yeah, I'm just trying to be present and process
(05:31):
it all.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, to stay grounded in the moment, because it's like,
you work so long for this thing and now it's here,
and you don't want to miss it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, And I don't want my predisposition to be anxious
to take me away from being in the moment. But
it's big and it's so funny too. It's just all
of these firsts are happening at the same time, and
daytime talk shows and interviews and seeing my face on
a billboard in Times Square, and I just don't even
(05:58):
have time to relish the moments because the next big
thing is happening. But I have a great team and
I feel really, you know, supported by them, which has
been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And would you say that your team is really the
key to taking care of your mental health right now
as you're embracing all these first Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
My team is very crucial.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
But I have been in therapy for twenty plus years
and in conjunction with my psychiatrists and my neuropsychologists, like
I have my brain on lock, I got my team
on lock. We're all working together.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, the team is all coming together to support you
through all of this.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So you mentioned that some very brave stuff ended up
on the page. I'm wondering if you had to advocate
for any pieces of the show to stay in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Actually being a plus sized black woman in Hollywood, there
are a lot of preconceived notions about what I can
do and what I can say, and there are a
lot of expectations about my career choices, especially after Insecure,
because they're like, she's funny, and that's the tiny box
they wanted to put me in, and I wanted to
(07:06):
write something that felt more real to my everyday life,
that felt like me and life is much more nuanced
than just being a genre. It's everything. Some days you
wake up and it's a rom com, by lunch, it's
a horror story, and by the evening it's a period piece.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So I think that being.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Able to play with all the beautiful colors of the
human emotional spectrum was important to me, And at times
there was pushback because I think so much of the
industry and executives way of thinking is binary.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It's just like comedy or drama.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And for me, the roles that I'm drawn to the
way that I write, direct produce. I like that gravity
and levity exist together because that's life. And so I
definitely fought the good fight, and I'm proud of what
made the page and what made ultimately the print cut
of the series. But yeah, it was interesting sort of
those snags that happened along the way that really called
(08:02):
me to action.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that so much of the
industry wants plus sized women to be in this one box,
because I did think it was significant for it to
be a plus size star dealing with the idea of
like desire in romance, because you don't often see that
as like a storyline. Can you tell me more about
like the significance of that.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh it was huge. I mean, well, one, I love
rom coms.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I love rom com and the way we use the
rom com tropes in the show. We use it as
sort of like a trojan horse to talk about deeper things.
But I also wanted my approach to that trojan horse
to be sort of a gift to past me who
didn't get to see someone my size having to choose
(08:47):
between two.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Fine ass men, you know what I mean. So it
was a real.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Cool experience to give that gift to myself in the
moment and on the page.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And I think what we do really well.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And it's also one of the principles of Big Hattie Productions,
my production company, is we do not have our characters
humanity start on page five or six before the title
page of the script. Whatever makes our protagonists othered. We
don't use page real estate to justify or explain any
(09:22):
of that. So it was really important for me to
let the fact that I am black and plus size
not be a plot point because they're just true. And
that's also why I use the word fat in the description.
I was sending it out and the log line that
went to all of the press was a fat black
JFK employee was like the beginning of.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The log line.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
And I just remember getting a note back from the
studio and they're like, fat are you? Are you sure
you want to say this? And I was just like, yeah,
it's not pejorative.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I own that word. I'm a beautiful fat woman.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
And so even in the process of getting people on
board to that idea was met with a little bit
of perplex like, how dare I be proud of this fact?
So it was definitely a lifelong dream to be able
to create a show that I would have loved to
have seen when I was coming up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Some of the themes that I think are so beautifully
explored in How to Dialone or self sabotaged, loneliness, desirability,
and feeling kind of behind in life. What would you
say was the most challenging aspect of portraying some of
these themes.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well, I mean, I was revisiting a pretty unhealed version
of myself, and it was very interesting to be revisiting
those themes from the vantage point of having learned some
things about myself. So I think for me, diving into
those emotions and going back to the place where I
(10:47):
felt unseen and I had a bit of arrested development,
and to go back to those places where feeling out
of place and being unsure. It was interesting to go
back to those moms and it's like kicking the tires
on my therapeutic experience, being like, okay, grown and learn,
but let's go back and make sure that we still
feel like those lessons are solid. And it was really
(11:10):
interesting too, because in the writer's room we talk about
the character and get deep into the psychology of how
the characters think and move, and because the protagonist is
so much like me, I have a deep connection and
it's a then DIAGRAMA. It's not a full two circles
on top of each other. There's a little overlap. But
(11:30):
in the writer's room, they would talk about Mel and
her problems and I would get defensive because they'd be like,
why would Mel be doing that?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I was like, y'all need to give her a break.
She's doing her best.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So those are some funny moments of just like, Okay, yeah,
maybe I need to talk to my therapists or work
a little bit longer on that theme or this or that.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Because when it would come up in that way, I'd
be triggered.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's interesting because you are very much in the process, right,
and so they're talking about you, but not really because
it's the character.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yes, exactly, It's just like they're using a euphemism named
mal and I'm like, all right, guys, you're right right.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
More from our conversation after the break So one of
the storylines that I really appreciated among many was there
was a bit of a friendship breakup, a tension with
the best friend that was really beautifully I thought, explored,
(12:28):
Can you talk to me about the importance of including
something like that, because I think friendship breakups are not
something we typically see a lot in media.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
No, it was very important to me.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I think when I had my first major friendship breakup,
I was wholly unprepared for.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It, and it hurt more than some romantic breakups. You know,
they go deep, and I think for me, as much
as the time.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Was difficult for me, it was so necessary and I
wanted to show that when you were growing, if your
friends aren't growing in that same direction, or if they're
resistant to your growth, that you have to audit who's
in your corner and see if they still deserve an
invitation to that party. And so when mel has this
(13:15):
sort of awakening that she hasn't really been living, she
begins to see some toxicity between her and Rory played
by the amazing Conrad Rick Amora. But she begins to
see that he benefited from her unhealed version of herself,
and so I thought it was so crucial to explore
that because it's just real.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's just real.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So in the first episode, one of the characters says,
we work at the airport, we're invisible. Was it purposeful
to make the decision to have the airport be the
backdrop or did you toy with like other places being
the backdrop of the show?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No, it was always the airport.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I travel a lot, and also as an actor and
as a creator, I'm a voyeur because I have to
study human behavior, and so I love to people want
and love to sort of observe, and so airports are
amazing for that because there's such an interesting cross section
of life.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Travel is the great equalizer.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
When you're on the train in New York or if
you're in the airport, you see all walks of life,
all having to go through security, all having to do
the same thing, and I thought it was important too,
because she's afraid to fly, to have her work in
an environment that is an adjutant to that latent desire
for her to take off, And so it was really
(14:31):
cool to explore. And we have really great writers' assistance
that looked up all the details about JFK and airport
so we could do it accurately.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
But yeah, it was always the airport.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
M M.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, it feels like it's also like this very interesting parallel.
There's this idea in psychology that talks about like a
failure to launch right, which feels like it is also
like a great parallel to being in an airport as
the bag job.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And one of the lines in the show that particularly
resonated and was definitely a result of trying to learn
a little bit more about airports. They talk about how
flight happens, and it's lift, thrust, weight and drag, and
so in order to take off, you have the lift
the thrust, but there's a weight, and so almost considering
(15:17):
the fact that when you go through bad times and turmoils,
that drag is also what helps you take off because
it's in opposition to those other forces, and so it
just felt like a beautiful metaphor to anchor the show.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So in the beginning of each episode we see interviews
with are they real people or worth these actors?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
They're one hundred percent real?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
They were real.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I thought, so, yeah, this New York, real New York.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So what inspired you to like make the decision to
include that as the beginning of each episode.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Couple of things. One, I love documentary. It's probably the
thing I consume most in television. And it's because when
you know, oh, someone, if they're doing a direct to
camera is a real person, you lean in because it
takes down that little last bit of artifice, even if
it's the best actor in the world, if it's Meryl Street.
If you know it's a real person, you give a
(16:13):
little bit more weight to what they're saying, and it
sort of provokes connection. And also interviewing so many New
Yorkers street side, it just gave context for the protagonist
of mel because she's one of millions and this is
just one story, and so I wanted to juxtapose the
intimacy of having those people on the street bring us
(16:34):
into the world, but also suggest every person has a
story and this is just one of many, and I
would be not telling the whole truth if I didn't
say I wasn't inspired by when Harry met Sally and
those were actors. I found that out way too late,
But at the time when I fell in love with
Nora Ephron in the movie, I just knew they were
(16:54):
real and it made me love it so much more
because I was like, Oh, these are real stories of love.
This is real stories of growth, like a real story
of perseverance, and so it was really cool to use
that device to frame the show.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So you already mentioned Rory as one of the colorful
personalities that we also see staring alongside you in How
To Die Alone. I'm wondering if any of the characters
are inspired by actual people in your life, and if so,
then how have you navigated like having these people show
up on the big screen.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Legally, I have to say no, But in truth, I
think so much of the writing process you're inspired by
not just people, but encounters and patterns in people, and
so a lot of the characters on the show are
sort of an amalgamation of interactions that I've had that
are real. But in conjunction with the words and the
(17:46):
location aren't ripping off or anything like that, but it
was important to me to sort of ground it in experience.
I feel like one of the best quotes is write
what you know, and so wanting to revisit conversation that
I had, and qualities of people in my life that
I found interesting. They all made their way into the show,
but not in one specific person got it.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Got it so so much of what makes the show
so enjoyable is the humor. I think that just came
through so beautifully. Is there any particular joke that you
remember that feels like, Oh, this is the one that
I really hope sticks with people.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh, there really are a lot. I will say. One
of the actors, C. P. Powell, who's a stand up
and he's also a writer in the writer's room, is
so deeply funny.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
And so when we were on set, obviously we get
all of the shots as.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Written in what scripted, but I love improv. That's where
I cut my teeth. It's what I love to do,
and so I would always give actors an opportunity to play.
We got that shot, let's just do a couple for play,
And he would in between a camera turn around, I'd
see him writing down a joker too, and he made
one that made the show whereas he's talking to the
(18:58):
character of Terrence, who's basically the Sam to my Diane,
the Gym to my Pam, and he's trying to hint
at the fact that he might have feelings for me,
and he says she's Lizzo and Rihanna Lasagnya, and it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
The rhythm of the delivery the way he says it.
It killed me.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And it was one of those things where I wasn't
in the scene, so I didn't get to see the
take until I was looking at dailies and I just
could not stop laughing. But yeah, there's so many moments
like that in the show, but that's definitely a highlight
for me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
M m, Yeah, that's definitely a good one. So what
do you hold viewers, especially Black women viewers take away
from watching How to Die Alone?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I hope black women when they see the show, they
can see a little bit of themselves. And the thing
about the show is I didn't want to write something
that was a before and after picture where you don't
get to see process. And I think as much as
my perfectionistic tendencies. Would love a degree from therapy. You
don't graduate from it, right, It's a process. I learned
(20:01):
the same shit over and over and again. I learn
better each time, but they are things that reoccurrent. The
healing journey for me has been messy and definitely not linear,
and I wanted to write a show that spoke to
that and not only spoke to it, but honored it.
I think I didn't have grace with myself and my
process for a long time. I'll refer you back to
(20:24):
my perfectionistic tendencies. And so I struggled because I would
make the same mistakes or find myself in the same situation.
And to put a show out there that's about the
process and celebrating the fact that we talk about the
process being like a room but vacuum cleaner. This is
what we say in the writer's room. And the idea
is that when you turn on a room B vacuum
(20:45):
cleaner and it starts to clean, it hits every wall
in the room, and the wall isn't an impediment. It's information,
and it takes that information and continues to clean, and
it learns as it goes. But every time it hits
a wall, it keeps going, And so we wanted to
use that idea in psychology with the show.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And my hope is that when audience sees the character
of mel as this human rumba who's trying to clean
up her life, who's making mistakes, sometimes the same ones
more than once, that they have an understanding that that's
the way the process is, and in turn have grace
with themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And you know, I hope the show sparks conversation because
one of the antidotes for me in terms of my
cure for loneliness is vulnerability and connection.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And it's hard.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's hard for me, and so I think audiences will
have conversations about the show and as a result, connect
with each other and be like, yeah, that's me too.
And so yeah, that's the long winded way of saying
those are my hopes for the show.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, and what do you feel like you learned about
Natasha through writing and storing as Melissa?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That I could fill a book.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It could fill a book, I mean, real talk, there's
something quite tender about stepping out of a supporting role
and into a lead role. And I don't have main
character energy in real life and am adjusting to the
spotlight in a way that is, you know, triggering some
(22:23):
of the shit that I work on in terms of worthiness.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And again perfecsionism.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And not really wanting to let myself down in that way.
And so it's definitely brought up some stuff that is
worth addressing and processing and working through. But I'm so grateful.
I had no idea this was in the cards for
me at all. I just knew I loved creating, I
loved writing, I loved acting.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I love it all.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And my hope was just to be able to make
rent and create and tell stories. And so to be
in this position it's a dream come true, like mega
mega dream come true. And so it's also required me
to dream bigger because now that this has been accomplished, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Almost like the dust is settling.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I'm like, I did the thing, so like you know,
it's okay now what you know? And so there's these
little mini existential crises that have emerged as a result
of working on this show and.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Having this success. But yeah, it's been enlightening. It's been enlightening.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
More from our conversation after the break, yeah, I was
really surprised. So I released my first book last year
and was very I think thrown off by how much
(23:52):
therapy then became supporting me, like letting this thing out
into the world and all this perfectionistic stuff and like
impossible syndrome stuff that I didn't really.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Know I struggled with.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I was very surprised, like therapy became full time like
about supporting me through that process. And I hear you
talking about that similarly.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Oh my god. I mean, I don't know if you
felt this.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It's just like the feeling worthy of this moment, and
then also not wanting to let people down, and that
obligation was amplified of just oh, people are going to
have these expectations about what it is or what it's
going to be. And so many people that have rallied
around me to execute this supported me because they believed
(24:36):
in me. So I don't want to let them down,
and then I don't want to let myself down. I
don't want to let you know. So it's definitely brought
up all of that stuff, and I'm just so grateful
for my therapist.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Truly.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I talk about therapy literally, I'm on this press story,
I talk about it every day because it's just real,
it's in my experience. I'm just like, listen, this is
the truth of this show. And she's been so instrumental
in holding me down because I'm experiencing a lot of
new things, all at once and in different ways. And
(25:08):
it's ironic because all my character wants on the show,
and all I've ever wanted was to feel seen and
to be known and to.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Put this show out there.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I'm being seen and known and it's fucking scary and
wanting to show up authentically and be committed to that.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And it's a very raw, vulnerable thing.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So wanting something and being terrified of it at the
same time, it's been walking in a very very tight rope.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And so I'm just grateful for the.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Mental health care professionals in my life holding me down
through this.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Is there anything that's been surprising about people's reaction to
the show? So, I know you had us screening recently
in New York and probably other places. Is there anything
that's been surprising to you about people's reactions.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I mean, yeah, I was bawling like I was a
mass and it's not surprising. I think it's just an
overwhelm of feeling that much love and wanting to receive
it and not resist it, and so much of what
I do in this job you can't control outcome. You
(26:18):
can only hope you can put out something that's excellent,
and if the breeze is blowing one way, you might
get horrible review or what have you. And so I
think it's been a really interesting process of trying to
divorce myself from the outcome, and at the same time
(26:39):
I have those wants of wanting to impress and wanting
to make sure people are entertained and people are getting
a good return on investment on this project. So I
think it's been an interesting process to sort of reconcile
all of that and surprising process just trying to want
the approval but not need it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And so it's like it's a weird thing, and they're
in life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
The reason I get so overwhelmed at these events because
it's just everything I could have ever wanted in terms
of response, and the cry is the relief. And so
I've been surprised about how emotional I've been publicly.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I'm just like, you know, bitch, don't cry like you know.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So I'm so moved and touched by that love and
support from the community, from you, from everyone. I'm trying
to get comfortable in it and not wiggle too much.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah. Yeah, So you left us with quite the cliffhanger
in season one. So I wonder if you can say
a little bit about where you might see Melissa going
in a season two of How to Die Alone.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yes, Lord willin in the creek don't rise. We will
hopefully get a season two. We don't find out for
a while now. But for me, I really am excited
to continue explore Mel's relationship with herself. If you recall
in the finale, she takes a really big swing and
bets on herself in a way that I hope audiences
(28:02):
are excited about, because it's sure as hell excited me
to see someone have a rom com trope of this
big romantic kind of trip, but it was for her,
and so I want to dive deeper in that, and
I'm really excited to continue to explore her new friendships.
And I think growing your circle with people who understand
(28:25):
where you're headed and are on board with your growth
and change is so important and so friendship. Like I
said earlier, in terms of her relationship with Rory, We
don't know if that's beyond repair, and so we'll explore
where we end up. But yeah, I would say the
love story of Mel with herself and her friendships would
definitely be a priority for me.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
We definitely will be staying tuned to see how that continues.
So I wonder if you have any words of encouragement
or affirmations that maybe have been helpful for you for
other people who may be trying to embrace that main
thing here to energy in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Ooh, what advice would I give?
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I think so much of wanting to be seen and
wanting to belong is provoked by wanting that external validation,
and what I am learning I ening learning always is
to give that validation to.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Myself and let that be enough.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
A lot of the work that I've done in my
life in therapy is centered around worthiness and enoughness, and
it has been a real struggle to not just say it,
but feel it and know it in my deep down.
And my advice to those struggling with main character energy
(29:54):
and imposter syndrome and wanting to feel seen and belong
is to turn inward and give what you're wanting to
yourself because you have that agency, you have that power.
And it took me a long time to realize that
even giving myself that validation and giving myself that love,
(30:19):
even saying the word I'm proud. I struggled with that
for years. Just to say I'm proud of this work
that I've done, and to hear myself say it on
the Today's Show this morning or whatever I'm doing for
the show, it almost catches me off guard because I
mean it. I fucking mean that shit. I'm proud of
myself and it's such a game changer to own that
(30:43):
power and take back that power. And it's not to
say that hearing it from the outside is wonderful, but
it's no longer the thing that I'm waiting for. It's
great when it happens, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And I really.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Try not to allow the external validation and the external
need to take away from what I know to be true.
And so I hope your listeners and watchers will give
to themselves what they're seeking and chip away at it
a little bit every day. Like I said, I've been
in therapy for twenty plus years and the issues stay
(31:21):
the same, but they present themselves in a myriad of way,
so I try to stay on my toes in terms
of that.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But yeah, I give to yourself what you're wanting from someone.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Else, beautiful words of encouragement. Thank you so much for that, Natasha.
So let us know where we can stay connected with you.
Where can we watch the show? Where can we keep
up with what's happening next?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Of course, How to Die Alone a premiere September thirteenth
on Hulu, and I'm excited for folks to watch. We'll
drop four episodes the thirteenth, We'll drop two more episodes
after that, and then the final two will be in
the third weekend. And folks can find me on Instagram
at Natasha Rothwell and the same handle for Twitter and for.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
TikTok beautiful Well. We will be sure to include all
of that in our show notes so that people can
tune in. Thank you so much for spending some time
with me today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Of course, thank you so much. You're just so wonderful
to talk to. You're like, I know you're on the Jarvist.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I'm like, I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Of course, I'm so glad Natasha was able to join
us for this conversation. To learn more about her and
the new show, be sure to visit our show notes
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash how to Die
Alone and don't forget to text this episode to two
of your girls right now and tell them to check
it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
(32:48):
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into
this topic or just be in community with other sisters,
come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.
It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for
black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise
Ellis and Xyria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
(33:11):
We'll be back next week with our regular episode, but
until then, take good care
Speaker 2 (33:20):
What
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for a special bonus episode of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Everyone, I'm Natasha Rothwell and I'm so excited to be
on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where I'll be
in session talking to you about me and the character
I play Melissa on my brand new show called How
to Die Alone.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Many of us fell in love with Natasha Rothwell through
her role as the hilarious Kelly on HBO's Insecure, and
later sustained that love as she appeared as Belinda Lindsay
in the White Lotus. Well, Natasha's back on our screens.
In this time. She's starring in a show that is
also self created and executive produced. It's called How to
Die Alone, and it's currently streaming on Hulu. I'm so
(01:52):
glad to have Natasha here on the show today to
chat with me about all things. How To Die Alone
a show that explores themes such as self sabage, loneliness,
and feeling as if you're behind in life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Some points we.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Touched on include the significance of having a black female,
plus size main character, how the show approaches tough situations
such as friendship breakups, and how Natasha is managing in
real life feelings of imposter syndrome while also continuing to
channel main character energy. If something resonates with you while
enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media
(02:25):
using the hashtag TBG in Session or join us over
in the sister circle to talk more about the episode.
You can join us at Community not Therapy for Blackgirls
dot Com. Here's our conversation. So, Natasha, I am just
thrilled to be chatting with you today. A huge fan
of your work, I know that myself and many of
(02:46):
our audience fell in love with you in the Insecure
and then continue that love to the White Lotus, and
we are here to talk about maybe your greatest work
of art to date, How to Die Alone, that is
on Hulu. So tell me how did you get involved
with this project.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I started working on this project about seven and a
half years ago. I was on Insecure and I got
a development deal for a pilot and it was basically
like having the proverbial blank sheet of paper passed to
me in the meeting, and I was terrified, just truly
terrified of like, I don't know what it is I
(03:23):
want to.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Say or what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And I come out of the world of improv and
one of the biggest tenants is follow the fear, and
at the time, dying alone and wrestling with that idea
and the difference between being alone and lonely was a
huge part of what I was going through, and so
I decided to write about that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Loved it. And so did you develop the story in
conjunction with other people or was it kind of your
brain child?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's my brain child. The show is my baby for me.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I really wanted to dive deep and really sort of
approach it with as much vulnerable and authenticity as possible.
And it doesn't mean I didn't ultimately end up working
with some great people once we had a writer's room
and all of that.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But yeah, this is one of.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
The most vulnerable things that I've done, is to put
myself out in this way with the show.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, And so I'm curious how you are feeling now
with it being out in the world, because I think
when artists like create a project that is so vulnerable,
so authentic to who they are, it can be scary
to put it out. So how are you feeling and
how are you navigating that now?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I mean scary to say the least. I think.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Also, what's funny in hindsight is it took so long
to work on it, So when you sometimes lose hope
as to whether or not something gets made, you get
a little bit more brave because you're like.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No one's ever gonna let me make this. And so
ultimately what got.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Green lit was a lot of brave shit on the page,
and so I was like, well, I got I gotta
do this now. But I'm feeling very blessed. I'm feeling
very grateful. It's over to be back in New York
for press. I live in LA but I used to
live here, and that's why the show takes place in
New York. And so it's strange to be here doing
(05:10):
a press tour for my own show. And I see
the ghosts of my youth and how broke I was
and how hard it was for me in New York
and just grinding trying to make a dream happen, and
so it's very surreal. It's very surreal to be back,
and yeah, I'm just trying to be present and process
(05:31):
it all.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, to stay grounded in the moment, because it's like,
you work so long for this thing and now it's here,
and you don't want to miss it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, And I don't want my predisposition to be anxious
to take me away from being in the moment. But
it's big and it's so funny too. It's just all
of these firsts are happening at the same time, and
daytime talk shows and interviews and seeing my face on
a billboard in Times Square, and I just don't even
(05:58):
have time to relish the moments because the next big
thing is happening. But I have a great team and
I feel really, you know, supported by them, which has
been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And would you say that your team is really the
key to taking care of your mental health right now
as you're embracing all these first Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
My team is very crucial.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
But I have been in therapy for twenty plus years
and in conjunction with my psychiatrists and my neuropsychologists, like
I have my brain on lock, I got my team
on lock. We're all working together.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, the team is all coming together to support you
through all of this.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So you mentioned that some very brave stuff ended up
on the page. I'm wondering if you had to advocate
for any pieces of the show to stay in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Actually being a plus sized black woman in Hollywood, there
are a lot of preconceived notions about what I can
do and what I can say, and there are a
lot of expectations about my career choices, especially after Insecure,
because they're like, she's funny, and that's the tiny box
they wanted to put me in, and I wanted to
(07:06):
write something that felt more real to my everyday life,
that felt like me and life is much more nuanced
than just being a genre. It's everything. Some days you
wake up and it's a rom com, by lunch, it's
a horror story, and by the evening it's a period piece.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So I think that being.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Able to play with all the beautiful colors of the
human emotional spectrum was important to me, And at times
there was pushback because I think so much of the
industry and executives way of thinking is binary.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It's just like comedy or drama.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And for me, the roles that I'm drawn to the
way that I write, direct produce. I like that gravity
and levity exist together because that's life. And so I
definitely fought the good fight, and I'm proud of what
made the page and what made ultimately the print cut
of the series. But yeah, it was interesting sort of
those snags that happened along the way that really called
(08:02):
me to action.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that so much of the
industry wants plus sized women to be in this one box,
because I did think it was significant for it to
be a plus size star dealing with the idea of
like desire in romance, because you don't often see that
as like a storyline. Can you tell me more about
like the significance of that.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh it was huge. I mean, well, one, I love
rom coms.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I love rom com and the way we use the
rom com tropes in the show. We use it as
sort of like a trojan horse to talk about deeper things.
But I also wanted my approach to that trojan horse
to be sort of a gift to past me who
didn't get to see someone my size having to choose
(08:47):
between two.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Fine ass men, you know what I mean. So it
was a real.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Cool experience to give that gift to myself in the
moment and on the page.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And I think what we do really well.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And it's also one of the principles of Big Hattie Productions,
my production company, is we do not have our characters
humanity start on page five or six before the title
page of the script. Whatever makes our protagonists othered. We
don't use page real estate to justify or explain any
(09:22):
of that. So it was really important for me to
let the fact that I am black and plus size
not be a plot point because they're just true. And
that's also why I use the word fat in the description.
I was sending it out and the log line that
went to all of the press was a fat black
JFK employee was like the beginning of.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The log line.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
And I just remember getting a note back from the
studio and they're like, fat are you? Are you sure
you want to say this? And I was just like, yeah,
it's not pejorative.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I own that word. I'm a beautiful fat woman.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
And so even in the process of getting people on
board to that idea was met with a little bit
of perplex like, how dare I be proud of this fact?
So it was definitely a lifelong dream to be able
to create a show that I would have loved to
have seen when I was coming up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Some of the themes that I think are so beautifully
explored in How to Dialone or self sabotaged, loneliness, desirability,
and feeling kind of behind in life. What would you
say was the most challenging aspect of portraying some of
these themes.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well, I mean, I was revisiting a pretty unhealed version
of myself, and it was very interesting to be revisiting
those themes from the vantage point of having learned some
things about myself. So I think for me, diving into
those emotions and going back to the place where I
(10:47):
felt unseen and I had a bit of arrested development,
and to go back to those places where feeling out
of place and being unsure. It was interesting to go
back to those moms and it's like kicking the tires
on my therapeutic experience, being like, okay, grown and learn,
but let's go back and make sure that we still
feel like those lessons are solid. And it was really
(11:10):
interesting too, because in the writer's room we talk about
the character and get deep into the psychology of how
the characters think and move, and because the protagonist is
so much like me, I have a deep connection and
it's a then DIAGRAMA. It's not a full two circles
on top of each other. There's a little overlap. But
(11:30):
in the writer's room, they would talk about Mel and
her problems and I would get defensive because they'd be like,
why would Mel be doing that?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I was like, y'all need to give her a break.
She's doing her best.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So those are some funny moments of just like, Okay, yeah,
maybe I need to talk to my therapists or work
a little bit longer on that theme or this or that.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Because when it would come up in that way, I'd
be triggered.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's interesting because you are very much in the process, right,
and so they're talking about you, but not really because
it's the character.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yes, exactly, It's just like they're using a euphemism named
mal and I'm like, all right, guys, you're right right.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
More from our conversation after the break So one of
the storylines that I really appreciated among many was there
was a bit of a friendship breakup, a tension with
the best friend that was really beautifully I thought, explored,
(12:28):
Can you talk to me about the importance of including
something like that, because I think friendship breakups are not
something we typically see a lot in media.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
No, it was very important to me.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I think when I had my first major friendship breakup,
I was wholly unprepared for.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It, and it hurt more than some romantic breakups. You know,
they go deep, and I think for me, as much
as the time.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Was difficult for me, it was so necessary and I
wanted to show that when you were growing, if your
friends aren't growing in that same direction, or if they're
resistant to your growth, that you have to audit who's
in your corner and see if they still deserve an
invitation to that party. And so when mel has this
(13:15):
sort of awakening that she hasn't really been living, she
begins to see some toxicity between her and Rory played
by the amazing Conrad Rick Amora. But she begins to
see that he benefited from her unhealed version of herself,
and so I thought it was so crucial to explore
that because it's just real.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's just real.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So in the first episode, one of the characters says,
we work at the airport, we're invisible. Was it purposeful
to make the decision to have the airport be the
backdrop or did you toy with like other places being
the backdrop of the show?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
No, it was always the airport.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I travel a lot, and also as an actor and
as a creator, I'm a voyeur because I have to
study human behavior, and so I love to people want
and love to sort of observe, and so airports are
amazing for that because there's such an interesting cross section
of life.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Travel is the great equalizer.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
When you're on the train in New York or if
you're in the airport, you see all walks of life,
all having to go through security, all having to do
the same thing, and I thought it was important too,
because she's afraid to fly, to have her work in
an environment that is an adjutant to that latent desire
for her to take off, And so it was really
(14:31):
cool to explore. And we have really great writers' assistance
that looked up all the details about JFK and airport
so we could do it accurately.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
But yeah, it was always the airport.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
M M.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, it feels like it's also like this very interesting parallel.
There's this idea in psychology that talks about like a
failure to launch right, which feels like it is also
like a great parallel to being in an airport as
the bag job.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And one of the lines in the show that particularly
resonated and was definitely a result of trying to learn
a little bit more about airports. They talk about how
flight happens, and it's lift, thrust, weight and drag, and
so in order to take off, you have the lift
the thrust, but there's a weight, and so almost considering
(15:17):
the fact that when you go through bad times and turmoils,
that drag is also what helps you take off because
it's in opposition to those other forces, and so it
just felt like a beautiful metaphor to anchor the show.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So in the beginning of each episode we see interviews
with are they real people or worth these actors?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
They're one hundred percent real?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
They were real.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I thought, so, yeah, this New York, real New York.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So what inspired you to like make the decision to
include that as the beginning of each episode.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Couple of things. One, I love documentary. It's probably the
thing I consume most in television. And it's because when
you know, oh, someone, if they're doing a direct to
camera is a real person, you lean in because it
takes down that little last bit of artifice, even if
it's the best actor in the world, if it's Meryl Street.
If you know it's a real person, you give a
(16:13):
little bit more weight to what they're saying, and it
sort of provokes connection. And also interviewing so many New
Yorkers street side, it just gave context for the protagonist
of mel because she's one of millions and this is
just one story, and so I wanted to juxtapose the
intimacy of having those people on the street bring us
(16:34):
into the world, but also suggest every person has a
story and this is just one of many, and I
would be not telling the whole truth if I didn't
say I wasn't inspired by when Harry met Sally and
those were actors. I found that out way too late,
But at the time when I fell in love with
Nora Ephron in the movie, I just knew they were
(16:54):
real and it made me love it so much more
because I was like, Oh, these are real stories of love.
This is real stories of growth, like a real story
of perseverance, and so it was really cool to use
that device to frame the show.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So you already mentioned Rory as one of the colorful
personalities that we also see staring alongside you in How
To Die Alone. I'm wondering if any of the characters
are inspired by actual people in your life, and if so,
then how have you navigated like having these people show
up on the big screen.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Legally, I have to say no, But in truth, I
think so much of the writing process you're inspired by
not just people, but encounters and patterns in people, and
so a lot of the characters on the show are
sort of an amalgamation of interactions that I've had that
are real. But in conjunction with the words and the
(17:46):
location aren't ripping off or anything like that, but it
was important to me to sort of ground it in experience.
I feel like one of the best quotes is write
what you know, and so wanting to revisit conversation that
I had, and qualities of people in my life that
I found interesting. They all made their way into the show,
but not in one specific person got it.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Got it so so much of what makes the show
so enjoyable is the humor. I think that just came
through so beautifully. Is there any particular joke that you
remember that feels like, Oh, this is the one that
I really hope sticks with people.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh, there really are a lot. I will say. One
of the actors, C. P. Powell, who's a stand up
and he's also a writer in the writer's room, is
so deeply funny.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
And so when we were on set, obviously we get
all of the shots as.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Written in what scripted, but I love improv. That's where
I cut my teeth. It's what I love to do,
and so I would always give actors an opportunity to play.
We got that shot, let's just do a couple for play,
And he would in between a camera turn around, I'd
see him writing down a joker too, and he made
one that made the show whereas he's talking to the
(18:58):
character of Terrence, who's basically the Sam to my Diane,
the Gym to my Pam, and he's trying to hint
at the fact that he might have feelings for me,
and he says she's Lizzo and Rihanna Lasagnya, and it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
The rhythm of the delivery the way he says it.
It killed me.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And it was one of those things where I wasn't
in the scene, so I didn't get to see the
take until I was looking at dailies and I just
could not stop laughing. But yeah, there's so many moments
like that in the show, but that's definitely a highlight
for me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
M m, Yeah, that's definitely a good one. So what
do you hold viewers, especially Black women viewers take away
from watching How to Die Alone?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I hope black women when they see the show, they
can see a little bit of themselves. And the thing
about the show is I didn't want to write something
that was a before and after picture where you don't
get to see process. And I think as much as
my perfectionistic tendencies. Would love a degree from therapy. You
don't graduate from it, right, It's a process. I learned
(20:01):
the same shit over and over and again. I learn
better each time, but they are things that reoccurrent. The
healing journey for me has been messy and definitely not linear,
and I wanted to write a show that spoke to
that and not only spoke to it, but honored it.
I think I didn't have grace with myself and my
process for a long time. I'll refer you back to
(20:24):
my perfectionistic tendencies. And so I struggled because I would
make the same mistakes or find myself in the same situation.
And to put a show out there that's about the
process and celebrating the fact that we talk about the
process being like a room but vacuum cleaner. This is
what we say in the writer's room. And the idea
is that when you turn on a room B vacuum
(20:45):
cleaner and it starts to clean, it hits every wall
in the room, and the wall isn't an impediment. It's information,
and it takes that information and continues to clean, and
it learns as it goes. But every time it hits
a wall, it keeps going, And so we wanted to
use that idea in psychology with the show.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And my hope is that when audience sees the character
of mel as this human rumba who's trying to clean
up her life, who's making mistakes, sometimes the same ones
more than once, that they have an understanding that that's
the way the process is, and in turn have grace
with themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And you know, I hope the show sparks conversation because
one of the antidotes for me in terms of my
cure for loneliness is vulnerability and connection.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And it's hard.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's hard for me, and so I think audiences will
have conversations about the show and as a result, connect
with each other and be like, yeah, that's me too.
And so yeah, that's the long winded way of saying
those are my hopes for the show.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, and what do you feel like you learned about
Natasha through writing and storing as Melissa?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That I could fill a book.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It could fill a book, I mean, real talk, there's
something quite tender about stepping out of a supporting role
and into a lead role. And I don't have main
character energy in real life and am adjusting to the
spotlight in a way that is, you know, triggering some
(22:23):
of the shit that I work on in terms of worthiness.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And again perfecsionism.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And not really wanting to let myself down in that way.
And so it's definitely brought up some stuff that is
worth addressing and processing and working through. But I'm so grateful.
I had no idea this was in the cards for
me at all. I just knew I loved creating, I
loved writing, I loved acting.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I love it all.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And my hope was just to be able to make
rent and create and tell stories. And so to be
in this position it's a dream come true, like mega
mega dream come true. And so it's also required me
to dream bigger because now that this has been accomplished, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Almost like the dust is settling.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I'm like, I did the thing, so like you know,
it's okay now what you know? And so there's these
little mini existential crises that have emerged as a result
of working on this show and.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Having this success. But yeah, it's been enlightening. It's been enlightening.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
More from our conversation after the break, yeah, I was
really surprised. So I released my first book last year
and was very I think thrown off by how much
(23:52):
therapy then became supporting me, like letting this thing out
into the world and all this perfectionistic stuff and like
impossible syndrome stuff that I didn't really.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Know I struggled with.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I was very surprised, like therapy became full time like
about supporting me through that process. And I hear you
talking about that similarly.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Oh my god. I mean, I don't know if you
felt this.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It's just like the feeling worthy of this moment, and
then also not wanting to let people down, and that
obligation was amplified of just oh, people are going to
have these expectations about what it is or what it's
going to be. And so many people that have rallied
around me to execute this supported me because they believed
(24:36):
in me. So I don't want to let them down,
and then I don't want to let myself down. I
don't want to let you know. So it's definitely brought
up all of that stuff, and I'm just so grateful
for my therapist.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Truly.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I talk about therapy literally, I'm on this press story,
I talk about it every day because it's just real,
it's in my experience. I'm just like, listen, this is
the truth of this show. And she's been so instrumental
in holding me down because I'm experiencing a lot of
new things, all at once and in different ways. And
(25:08):
it's ironic because all my character wants on the show,
and all I've ever wanted was to feel seen and
to be known and to.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Put this show out there.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
I'm being seen and known and it's fucking scary and
wanting to show up authentically and be committed to that.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And it's a very raw, vulnerable thing.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So wanting something and being terrified of it at the
same time, it's been walking in a very very tight rope.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And so I'm just grateful for the.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Mental health care professionals in my life holding me down
through this.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Is there anything that's been surprising about people's reaction to
the show? So, I know you had us screening recently
in New York and probably other places. Is there anything
that's been surprising to you about people's reactions.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I mean, yeah, I was bawling like I was a
mass and it's not surprising. I think it's just an
overwhelm of feeling that much love and wanting to receive
it and not resist it, and so much of what
I do in this job you can't control outcome. You
(26:18):
can only hope you can put out something that's excellent,
and if the breeze is blowing one way, you might
get horrible review or what have you. And so I
think it's been a really interesting process of trying to
divorce myself from the outcome, and at the same time
(26:39):
I have those wants of wanting to impress and wanting
to make sure people are entertained and people are getting
a good return on investment on this project. So I
think it's been an interesting process to sort of reconcile
all of that and surprising process just trying to want
the approval but not need it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And so it's like it's a weird thing, and they're
in life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
The reason I get so overwhelmed at these events because
it's just everything I could have ever wanted in terms
of response, and the cry is the relief. And so
I've been surprised about how emotional I've been publicly.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I'm just like, you know, bitch, don't cry like you know.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So I'm so moved and touched by that love and
support from the community, from you, from everyone. I'm trying
to get comfortable in it and not wiggle too much.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah. Yeah, So you left us with quite the cliffhanger
in season one. So I wonder if you can say
a little bit about where you might see Melissa going
in a season two of How to Die Alone.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yes, Lord willin in the creek don't rise. We will
hopefully get a season two. We don't find out for
a while now. But for me, I really am excited
to continue explore Mel's relationship with herself. If you recall
in the finale, she takes a really big swing and
bets on herself in a way that I hope audiences
(28:02):
are excited about, because it's sure as hell excited me
to see someone have a rom com trope of this
big romantic kind of trip, but it was for her,
and so I want to dive deeper in that, and
I'm really excited to continue to explore her new friendships.
And I think growing your circle with people who understand
(28:25):
where you're headed and are on board with your growth
and change is so important and so friendship. Like I
said earlier, in terms of her relationship with Rory, We
don't know if that's beyond repair, and so we'll explore
where we end up. But yeah, I would say the
love story of Mel with herself and her friendships would
definitely be a priority for me.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
We definitely will be staying tuned to see how that continues.
So I wonder if you have any words of encouragement
or affirmations that maybe have been helpful for you for
other people who may be trying to embrace that main
thing here to energy in their own lives.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Ooh, what advice would I give?
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I think so much of wanting to be seen and
wanting to belong is provoked by wanting that external validation,
and what I am learning I ening learning always is
to give that validation to.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Myself and let that be enough.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
A lot of the work that I've done in my
life in therapy is centered around worthiness and enoughness, and
it has been a real struggle to not just say it,
but feel it and know it in my deep down.
And my advice to those struggling with main character energy
(29:54):
and imposter syndrome and wanting to feel seen and belong
is to turn inward and give what you're wanting to
yourself because you have that agency, you have that power.
And it took me a long time to realize that
even giving myself that validation and giving myself that love,
(30:19):
even saying the word I'm proud. I struggled with that
for years. Just to say I'm proud of this work
that I've done, and to hear myself say it on
the Today's Show this morning or whatever I'm doing for
the show, it almost catches me off guard because I
mean it. I fucking mean that shit. I'm proud of
myself and it's such a game changer to own that
(30:43):
power and take back that power. And it's not to
say that hearing it from the outside is wonderful, but
it's no longer the thing that I'm waiting for. It's
great when it happens, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And I really.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Try not to allow the external validation and the external
need to take away from what I know to be true.
And so I hope your listeners and watchers will give
to themselves what they're seeking and chip away at it
a little bit every day. Like I said, I've been
in therapy for twenty plus years and the issues stay
(31:21):
the same, but they present themselves in a myriad of way,
so I try to stay on my toes in terms
of that.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But yeah, I give to yourself what you're wanting from someone.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Else, beautiful words of encouragement. Thank you so much for that, Natasha.
So let us know where we can stay connected with you.
Where can we watch the show? Where can we keep
up with what's happening next?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Of course, How to Die Alone a premiere September thirteenth
on Hulu, and I'm excited for folks to watch. We'll
drop four episodes the thirteenth, We'll drop two more episodes
after that, and then the final two will be in
the third weekend. And folks can find me on Instagram
at Natasha Rothwell and the same handle for Twitter and for.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
TikTok beautiful Well. We will be sure to include all
of that in our show notes so that people can
tune in. Thank you so much for spending some time
with me today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Of course, thank you so much. You're just so wonderful
to talk to. You're like, I know you're on the Jarvist.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I'm like, I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Of course, I'm so glad Natasha was able to join
us for this conversation. To learn more about her and
the new show, be sure to visit our show notes
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash how to Die
Alone and don't forget to text this episode to two
of your girls right now and tell them to check
it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
(32:48):
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into
this topic or just be in community with other sisters,
come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.
It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for
black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise
Ellis and Xyria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
(33:11):
We'll be back next week with our regular episode, but
until then, take good care
Speaker 2 (33:20):
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