BONUS: Pop Culture Catchup

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

(00:57):
for joining me for the special bonus episode of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation afterword from our sponsors. In this episode, I'm joined
by our incredible production team for a fun and insightful

(01:19):
conversation about some of the pop culture moments that have
been giving us life lately. We're diving into Beyonce's Cowboy
Carter tour and what it means for how we understand
black womanhood and creativity, unpacking the emotional and spiritual layers
of the film centers, and reflecting on the quiet power
of the Netflix series Forever. These stories are rich, complex

(01:42):
and so reflective of the many ways we show up
in the world, and I'm excited for you to hear
this conversation. As always, it's about more than what we're watching.
It's about how it makes us feel, what it stirs up,
and what it says about us as a community. Take
a listen and let us know what resonates with you most.
Here's our conversation. Well, we are back with another fan

(02:08):
favorite producer, pop Culture Chat. It is time for us
to catch up on all the things we have been watching,
paying attention to lots going on that we have not
had a chance to come on the podcast, So we're
very excited for another conversation here. I mean, we have
a new team member since our last producer Ketchup, so
we will start with you in day if you want
to introduce yourself and tell them what you do here

(02:29):
at Therapy for Black Girls.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. I'm in day Chubou, I'm.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
From Atlanta, I'm a new producer on the podcast team,
and i feel like I'm in great company, so I'm
happy to be here.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
I'm sorry. I am also a producer for TVG and TBGU.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
And always enjoy talking yapping about pop culture. That's what
we do in our meets anyway, So excited to talk today.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
And Elise, Hey everyone, my name's Elise. I'm the senior
produce of the podcast fun Fact. This month marks five
years at TVGI. Wow, I know, I know, I know,
almost ten.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
So that's very exciting.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
But yeah, happy to be here with doctor Joy, with Enday,
with Tyree, with the gang as you call us, and
the three of us were the hater circle, but I'm
here to hate today.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
We're here to show some love to some of.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Our favorite movies, TV shows, things we've been tuned into
in pop culture.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yes, yes, I love that. Well, happy five year anniversary.
It definitely doesn't feel like it has been that long,
but I love that you have been here this long.
Always enjoy our conversations. So we're going to start with
something that is a little bit like kind of not
everybody's talking about it anymore, but still very relevant and
we want us to share some of our thoughts. So
Sinners was the movie that came out earlier this year

(03:56):
that many of the producers have seen multiple times. Now,
I will let y'all know, I've only seen it once.
I will likely watch it again when it comes to streaming.
But the producers were very excited. They were very aggravated
that I had not seen it in enough time for
us to talk about it more recently. But how many
times have y'all actually seen Sinners? And tell me what

(04:17):
made it like something that you needed to go to
over and over again.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I've seen it three times. I saw it regular, just basic.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I saw it in Imax, and then I saw it
in Imax seventy millimeter thankfully God's favorite. And I just
felt like I needed to watch it because I don't know,
it's like any movie where you're like ingesting a lot
of information. There are so many like cultural references or whatever,
and I feel like it's good to rewatch after you
go into a rabbit hole, so you can watch with
new contexts and you're noticing new things, and then you

(04:49):
do the same thing, so it's like watch rets repeat
kind of vibes.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And I would see it again. What about you?

Speaker 1 (04:56):
At least I feel like you might have the record
for the most watches.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, I saw it three times. I'm so grateful to
be in LA where I saw it first. In imax
and in thirty five milimeters, so that was like the
intended format. And then I saw it at my old
faithful the Alamol Draft House, like I needed a meal
with the movie. And then the third time, I saw
it at the Vista Theater, which is Quentin Tarantino's theater

(05:20):
in the East Hollywood area in thirty five milimeter with
my brother, who was a big film buff. He's also
a producer and director. So that was a really great experience.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
And to your question on why did I.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
See it three times, I'm a big proponent of if
you like something, you like something, and there's nothing wrong
with indulging in that time and time again. Next week
I'm going to go see When Harry Met Sally because
it's playing at like a random theater I'm going to
go to. And I haven't been this excited about a
film in a while to the point where I would
see it multiple times.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
But it's such a long film.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
I think it's like two hours and thirty minutes, and
I think that first time you're really just taking it
all in. The second time I was watching for like,
what are the things I didn't catch?

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Or how can I go a layer DP love with
the game. The third time was honestly just for the
fun of it.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
Like you, doctor Joy, I only saw it the one
time because I only had one set of twenty six
dollars to spend, and I am really interested for the
people who did see it multiple times.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
I don't know it gives recession indicator.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
And I love this film, but going to the movies
that much, we haven't been doing that since the Great Depression,
and I'm concerned.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
I really, I'm talkies.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
We just I feel like we need to restore the
feeling of like being in the movie theater, like even
theater is an unmatched experience.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I loved it. I also literally like our president when
it comes to the movie scene. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
And it's also it was funny seeing it in Atlanta
with just like a whole different crowd and seeing it
in New York.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
So Bush, back on your.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Point about the movies, it's a very exciting experience.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
You're not supposed to talk.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
But even if you do, because you know that, okay,
we're supposed to be hush hushed when you're making like
these comments, whether to your friend or just laughing.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
It really is because the film pulled you in that way.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I go to movies at least once a week, and
I don't find it to be a recession indicator. I
think Doctor Joy just did an episode about solo dates.
It's one of the best solo dates as well. So
I'm very much pro seeing movies multiple times or just
going to the movies as much as you can, and
I think you just start to appreciate film like, Okay,
if I'm gonna go once a week, if I'm gonna
go every other week, it's less about what's in theaters

(07:38):
and about trying to broaden your horizons when it comes
to different films or different genres.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
So I think I have a couple of reactions to
what y'all have said. So one, I was surprised that
y'all were so excited about it, because y'all do describe
yourselves as the Haters Club, right, and so for all
of you to be so excited about this thing, that's like,
oh my gosh, I got to see it multiple times,
and then I see it, I'm like, oh, I'm not
really sure I like these fall So I think that

(08:05):
that was interesting. But I also think that Ryan Coogler
himself made a big difference in people seeing it multiple times.
That video he did, I don't even know what it
was if it was a podcast interview, but where he
broke down like his vision and why the different film
formats were important, and like really broke that down. I
don't even really understand all of what he said, but

(08:27):
I think that led to people feeling like, oh, we
got to go see like this thing that he's talking
about and broke down so eloquently. So I think that
that really started the campaign for people to kind of
be primed in other words, to see it's.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Multi accessible to people.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
Yeah, And I think that that's a thing that's stick
for me. Like I'm a film person. I have a
background on TV and film, but a lot of times
the technical aspects of filmmaking are unimportant to the people watching.
And I think it's a big thing with the industry now,
people not really caring about whether or not a scene
was made using AI or what goes into like the

(09:04):
physical production of like special effects, And he made us care, Like,
you know, I honestly would consider so I saw it
in seventy millimeters, but I would consider seeing it like
in the digital sense, just to see those keen differences.
There's something too that I don't think that you can
strategize for that at your marketing campaign. It's just it
comes out when you know somebody who really cares about

(09:26):
what they do gets to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
I think you can tell that Ryan Coogler is like
like he really meets people where they're at, Like you
can just tell in interviews, like he is the same
across the board, like people always talk about like his
strong I see from Oakland, his strong like Oakland accent,
and like how he doesn't code switch or try to
like kind of correct his accent to be more palatable

(09:50):
to whoever.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
And I think that's like not only like in like.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
The shallower parts of him, just like how he presents,
but it's clearly just like he's like I'm just gonna
show up to where I am.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
And you know, I think it.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Is cool that he was like, let's just do a
video breaking down because I think there is something like.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
About the film buff community that.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Can feel a little exclusive and it's just like, oh, well,
you don't get it, Like you wouldn't get why.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
You need to see it in seventy millimeter, like you
just and if you don't.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
You don't, But I think it's nice that he is like, no,
let me explain to you why this is cool.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
And people are like, oh, it is cool. Whoever pitched that,
give them a raise?

Speaker 3 (10:29):
That whole team, Like, I hope they're really getting their
flowers after this because they I think they made a
huge impact.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Agreed.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Shout out to you know, my fellow trojan USCLM, Ryan
Kugler and his composer Ludwig. But I agree with what
both of you guys said, like, when you feel so
passionately about something, you want it to be accessible to
other people. And I think that also is really the
ethos of this podcast as well, the ability to take
these things that feel very complex. You're right, film people

(10:58):
are snobs, and to bring it to a general audience
that excites people. And it made me think about I've
been watching this show on Apple with seth Rogen what
is it the studio something like that, and them shooting
a movie in film, and I think when you watch that,
you're like, yeah, these people are super pressed. This is

(11:20):
super annoying. But when you hear someone like Ryan Cooler
talk about all the different formats and all the different
ways and how the experience affects the film. It's that
kind of like how and that ability to connect on
emotion that I think he does really well. And then
I think another layer to it is people are very
excited about him and Michael B Jordan's journey together as

(11:41):
an actor duo. And I think it was an interview
maybe it was like Variety or GQ where he talks
about telling Michael B Jordan that I think you're like
a real movie star, and Michael B Jordan did not
see that in himself, and I think it's very interesting
how someone who is a great act like Michael B
Jordan can like question that. But through the films, we've

(12:04):
seen that Ryan Coogler sees something in him, and I
think that is really beautiful. It's also really beautiful between
like two black men, like this brotherhood that spans multiple genres,
that is in the Marvel universe, a dramatization of a
real life story. And then we get this like rocky
horror picture show epic for black people, and so I
think that is what excites people like they've been rooting

(12:25):
for them since Fruit Veil Station. I agree that, like muse,
relationship between two black men is really nice to see
and I feel like I personally haven't seen something like that,
I mean before my time a bit, but I caught
up since Like Spike and Denzel, like when it comes
to like hit after hit after hit, like they just
make magic.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
And so yeah, I think it's nice to Michael B.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Jordan is essentially like his muse, Like they just have
their own language and they get each other.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
So how do we feel about him playing both of
these roles Smoke and Stack? And was that the initial plan?

Speaker 6 (12:58):
Right?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Like, had it always been planned? I don't know if
I've seen that come out in interviews. Had it always
been planned that he would play both of these roles originally?

Speaker 4 (13:07):
What was supposed to happen?

Speaker 5 (13:08):
I mean, I know that we have some controversies with
one of the other Michael B. Jordan collaborators, but I
think there was no other way to do this. There
was something about them being twins and brothers that played
at a sort of double consciousness. I think in the
films Smoking Stack are different people but also went in
the same And when I watched it, I felt a

(13:30):
lot of things around how I relate to community. I
feel like there's always a kind of a push pool
with who you have to be in this world and
the sacrifices that you actually have to make in order
to relate to others, And I think that Smoking Stack
were great paradigms of that. So I don't know if
they always meant for Michael B. Jordan to play both roles,

(13:50):
but I'm so glad that it happened that way because
it definitely did something to the story.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Just from the story, to me, it's clear that they're
supposed to be identical twins and able to pick up
where the other one lacks. So I didn't understand the
discourse about other actors being in the film because I
was like, No, I watched it, and to me, it's like,
very clear these are identical twins, even the fact that

(14:18):
their names are like Smoke.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
And Stack, the like double s. So I thought that
was very interesting.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
They are he That's the thing I keep saying they
because he distinctly played both characters very well, like I'm
never thinking that's Michael Jordan, and that's Michael Jordan when
you're watching the film. No, these are two separate people,
and that's I think he did an excellent job at
that very much.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Lindsay Ohan in the parent Trap period exactly.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
He channeled her for sure, to play a twin, not
even like a twin to yourself, and just like you
can tell that they were similar, like the nuances with
Smoke being a little bit more like stoic and emo
and Stack being like a little bit more flashy.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
No stress, Like I think that is.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
I'm not an actor, but I watch movies and I
feel like not a lot of people can accomplish that.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Mm hmm, yeah, you know, I appreciate you bringing out
at least like the different genres that they have kind
of had this music relationship in the Marvel universe with Fruitvale.
I actually feel like this was the first film that
I saw Michael B. Jordan disappear into the role like
I think usually he feels very much like Michael B.
Jordan in a role, and this one it definitely even

(15:30):
though he was playing a comic book character in Black Panther, like,
this was the role that I think you really saw
him kind of like transcend into these characters. And I
agree that it definitely didn't feel like him playing himself twice,
it definitely felt like to the stake people. So something
else that you mentioned at least was people talking about
this as a musical.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I had not heard.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
That conversation, nor did I necessarily think.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
About the film as a musical.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
But it's interesting that you're saying, like, oh, you thought
it was a musical, because I think in my mind
the framework for music is like Greece, which is like
one of my favorite movies right, very old school, and
I think about like a musical as like these songs
that come out of nowhere, and like they could have
talked this script, but it became a song somehow, and
Sinners didn't feel like that to me. So did it

(16:17):
feel like a musical to the rest of you? And like,
what are your thoughts around like a musical with this storyline?

Speaker 5 (16:23):
It gave musical to me. Music has to it has
to move the narrative forward, it did. I put it
this way, This is going to be so such an
insane reference. Cheetah Girls one is a movie about musicians,
but Cheetah Girls two is an actual musical. And yeah,
I feel like in the Cheetah Girls too category because

(16:46):
the music actually moves the story along.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
But it's both.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
I agree because to your first point about there being
music films or a film about musicians. Obviously, we have
Miles Canton, who's preacher Boy, and the ethos of Sinners
or the Lords loosely based off Robert Johnson's story who allegedly.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Like sold his soul at a crossroads and became this
blues legend. So that's one part of the film.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
But I do agree in a lot of films like Grease,
which doctor you, I didn't know that was one of
your favorite films. That was like essential text from my mom.
But I think we think a lot about musicals as
the music replacing like some of the conversations and dialogue,
and you know, of course high school musical balls into that.
But I do agree Sinners is more like we pushed

(17:40):
the story along through these songs, or there are things
that are unspoken that aren't necessarily conversations, but that the
songs make up for. But I will say the Sinners soundtrack,
you know, on a nice little walk.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's hidden, so I guess the I love that song.
Like again, tyree to your point about Cheetah Girls.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
I think it's like and I love musicals, but I
don't think I initially saw it as a musical, maybe
because it is a movie about musicians. I feel like
there are often musicals that are movies that just happen
to have songs, and it's like it also could have
been dialogue, Like the music wasn't necessary, and that doesn't
mean it's not good.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
But I think Centers so intertwined.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like it has musicians, it has fictional musicians, it has
real musicians with Buddy Guy at the end, and it
also like one of the themes is music, and so
I think it kind of like really elevates what a
musical can be because it's not just.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like we're replacing dialogue with songs.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
We are like kind of creating a world out of
the music.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
I think that Black people have such a specific relationship
to music in general that even when we do storytelling,
rhythm and music is a natural part of it. So,
for example, I love School Days. That's one of my
favorite movies. I did not know that was a musical
until like several years later that someone pointed out to me.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
And the way that music is used, and it kind
of seems nebulous to the plot.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
It just feels like a natural instance of things that
would be happening on a college campus. And when I
was watching Centers, it was almost like you can't tell
the story without the.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
Songs being sung. So that is how I kind of.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
Related to being a musical, like it wouldn't be a
complete body of work without the singing.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, And you know, Ludwig is a
musical genius. I think Black Panther is one of my
favorite soundtracks, and so he made magic. So thinking about
like this universe that Ryan Coogler is created for himself,
like I would love to know, like the what is
the creative process? Like are they sitting in a room together,
and like is Ludwig kind of thinking about the music
as he's talking about like how the plot unfolds, Like

(19:56):
it definitely feels like that trio of him, Michael B.
Jordan Ludwig on the music just really makes magic. I
think that was incredible.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Ryan Coopler and Ludwick traveled and like heard like blues
in real time and maybe in Mississippi, but like in
the South, and like really did that research.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I feel like I saw a lot of people being like,
but he's white.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
He's white, And I'm like, yeah, that's a fact, he
is white. But I feel like they're partners, so I
get it. But also if he's like doing the research
through and through and ultimately if.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
The music is good, like the music is just like you.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Can't say he missed, So like if you want to
be mad that he's white, you can be.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
But I also feel like he ain't that, so can't
be mad.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
I agree more from our conversation after the break. So
I think we cannot talk about like the role of
music in this film without thinking about the one particular
juke joint scene where we see the genres blending and

(21:00):
like the ancestors in the room and thinking about the
future of music. And that is the scene I think
that I have seen the most well maybe one of two,
the most kind of conversation around whether people loved it
or not. Like I think some people felt, oh my gosh,
this was amazing, like I love to see this play out.
Other people, I think were kind of turned off and
like what was happening here? Like what do we just see?

(21:22):
So what were your reactions to the Dean and the
juke joint where we see the different genres of music
being represented.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
My favorite play is called The Colored Museum by George
sea Wolf, and the final scene of the play all
of the ancestors are at a cookout basically in a
hallm apartment, Patti LaBelle and Polly Murray like exchanging barbs
around like where they get their LeMay.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Dresses or whatever. Like.

Speaker 5 (21:46):
So seeing that sort of intergenerational blend of blackness, I
think was like very powerful, and it really like kind
of set up what the role of agriot even is
for people who maybe were not familiar with that term
going on into the film. But even if you don't
like it, I think it's impossible to not have a
visceral reaction to it. And I think that's what makes

(22:07):
like something really art, where like you can't really see
the scene and thing Matt, you either like really love
it or you're confused and it jars you.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
So I thought it was effective either way.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, I feel like I loved it.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Like Sarry said, I think, yeah, you're going to react
to it, but like to not be like this is insane.
Like I think, like when I was watching it the
first time, I was to think about telling the story
in this way, how do we even land here?

Speaker 2 (22:36):
And I started thinking about like.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
How you put that on paper, Like how do you
write this on a script to then translate to screen.
Like obviously Ryan wrote and directed the movie, so there
was less translation that needed to happen there. But I
think that is when it comes to like storytelling. That
is like peak storytelling for me, And I feel like
I could watch that scene over and over you just
like learn so much and without saying anything, pays respects

(23:03):
to just like the legacy of black music, and then
even incorporating the Chinese characters who had on their like
traditional garb, Like I think there were so many kind
of historical threats pulled together and just like put into
beautiful display. Like I am a part of the hater circle,
but I have zero hate for that. See, I'm gonna

(23:23):
have to agree, I have zero hate for that scene.
And I think there are a lot of discussions around
people ask this big question like what is black culture,
especially as like America isn't our homeland for argument, And
I think that scene is really perfect in showing the
connection between being of African descent but also what that means,

(23:45):
you know, on like quote unquote American soil and so
to like honor the black and African music tradition that way.
I thought that was really special and I do think
sometimes it brings up uncomfortable feelings for people, especially it
fere like come from a very like Christian background of
a lot of the things we know are rooted in

(24:07):
African spiritual traditions are a lot of the ways we
show up, whether it's in music or you know, even
when you go into your grandma's house and see like
twelve photos of all these ancestors who have passed away
or your grandma, like that is an altar, and so
I like how the film really played with that, and
that scene was such an amazing showcase of it, and

(24:28):
it was just really fun. I really would love to
hear more about whether it was like CGI or everything
that was used to incorporate the actors who are in
the juke joint, but then also the women talking and
the ballerinas and all of those things. I thought visually
that was very interesting, So I'm interested in the technical
part behind that too.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
So the other scene that I think there was lots
of conversation and controversy around is when the vampires are
let into the juke joint and we see Grace is
the character who allow them into the juke joint, and
so what were your thoughts around her inviting the vampires in.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
I feel like everybody else, everybody else needed to lock
in with her, like she had it done, like we're
just gonna wait until the daytime. No, it's business time.
Let's get it, let's get this together. I also feel
like she lost more than everybody else.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
She did it, and she went for her husband first.
She was in a way trying to save him.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
But to my knowledge, like I don't know if anyone
else had children on planet Earth, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
And so again I was just talking to some friends
about this, I'm like, I get it.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Like she was like, Okay, they're just going to kill
more people, So come on, we prepare, grab your stakes,
your shanks, and let's get to work. Like obviously i'd
be like, oh my god, like can we get another hour?
Like can we just we can't survive the night? But
it was bound to happen anyways. It was bound to happen.
And I think what people forget or not even forget

(25:57):
if you're not.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Up to date on your life, vampire stories.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
They are very enticing, like it's not a rational decision,
it's an emotional one. And so when Remnick was speaking Chinese,
those are the things that vampires do to pull at
you to invite them in or to give up and
become one, And.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
So I think people, I think, are trying.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
To make it like a race based decision when vampires
are supernatural beings that are known for being conniving and convincing.
So I was kind of like, yeah, this was going
to happen anyway to someone eventually.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I wasn't mad at her. I wasn't mad at her.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
I think after the conversations everyone that you've joined were
having was like you either if you're one of them,
you cannot join back with like the ancestors, like you
really won't go into the afterlife. And so also knowing
that your loved one is out there in that reality,
what would you do, especially if you're a spiritual person

(27:00):
And they don't touch on this directly in the film.
A little bit they do, but like, of course being
of Chinese descent, you are a very spiritual person.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And they even talked about.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
How only having red paint to write the Duke Joint
sign red writing has a lot of meetings, so those
themes were wrapped.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Up in there. So I wasn't mad at her.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
I was like, girl, you gotta do what you gotta do,
because I don't know how I would react if a
vampire started giving my home address. I would be like, okay,
let's take thirty seconds to just figure out a plan.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Which they had a plan, like you said, Tyree, but
the way.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
She did, I'm like, okay, give us a bit of
a warning for like a little bit.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
I really wish that we got like a post credit
scene that explained what happens to the daughter now because
her parents dead and she is the only Chinese girl
in Mississippi with two stores to ruin. That is the
story that I need to know about Preacher boy. It
made sense then, a little mischild, I do want to know.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, Lisa, what's her name?

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Lisa?

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I think so, yeah, you know, you make an excellent
point at Lisa. And again I don't think that I
knew like exactly what I was walking into with Sinners right,
Like it definitely felt like Okay, I want to go
see like what the hype is about, and I want
to support the cast and Ryan. But I was not
up on vampire lore because it is not something I'm
typically drawn to. Like I was one of those people
online talking about like, Okay, how scary is this is

(28:28):
this really gonna be something I can tolerate? And so
it would not be like if it were build more
as a vampire movie, it probably would not have been
something I would have seen. And so there was a
lot of that like vampire context which I found out afterwards,
right like around like the inviting them in like context
clues led me to understand it a little bit in
the film, but not until afterwards when I came home

(28:50):
and read about it, I was like, Oh, this is why,
like they needed to be invited in. So you make
a great point that if you are not in that
genre and understand like how vampires work, then I think
a lot was missed.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
So why see it a second time?

Speaker 1 (29:05):
And I will when it is dreaming? So Tarry, you
bring up an excellent point in terms of thinking about like, Okay,
what happens next? Right, like what is Lisa's story? And
there is conversation around like are we going to get
like a center cinematic universe?

Speaker 4 (29:19):
Right?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Did this leave the door open for other films I've
seen people talk about loving would love to see like
Smoking Stack in Chicago? What happened? Are we gonna get
a prequel? Like do you think there will be more
Ciners films or is this like a one and done
kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
I can't speak to if there will be more, but
I can't speak to if I think we need them.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I just am gonna say no.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Like, I just think that sometimes expanding like wait, this
like idea of making things into a universe or like
making things into a world. I mean, the movie in
itself has built its own world, but I think sometimes
it's nice to just let.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
That story be that story.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
And like the idea of like franchising everything.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Don't let me get into my capitalism back, but.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
You know, like just the idea of like trying to like, Okay,
this was successful, how can we let's make five more.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm like the story.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
I think the story was great, and I kind of
like the idea of if you're reading a book, like
you'll never really know what those people look like, what
they wear. And I like the idea of like something
being left to the imagination of the story, you know,
And I think that's like kind of part of storytelling,
like letting people kind of participate in their own way.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
So if there are more readings, I will be watching,
but I'm not asking for it.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
And day you took all of the words right out
in my mouth because I was going to get on
my capitalism soapbox, where I don't think that is always necessary.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
And I do think whether you're a reader or a viewer,
it does let you sit with your own imagination a
little bit more. And I think that is.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
What is like beautiful about films. It's like, this is
the story I decided to tell you. Now, once you
leave this theater, once you put the book down, return
into the library, whatever you go on, and let that
inform you know what you think beyond your life. And
so I think I really did like that. It did
feel like a complete story.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I don't think there were anything, any holes, anything missing.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I like when media allows me to just sit
with it and it doesn't kind of force me to
continue to follow the story, like it is contained within
itself and it says, this is what I gave you,
this is it, and now I'm going to go.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
So I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
I don't think that we're going to get a sequel
or that we need it, but I do think that
sinners already exist in a cinematic universe. I think that
Sinner's life and oh, brother, where art thou all are
the same?

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Like universe? And yes that's my thought.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Oh yeah, I love it.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
I mean, granted they all are just to those other
movies amazing sound tricks.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
I've also had a great sound on track did.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
Life?

Speaker 2 (32:04):
You've also had a great soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
So I do love what I mean really like we
really got to start like looking back into a lot
of these movies. And that's the thing you're so right, Tarry,
Like the amount of time just in life, Like I've
been with friends and someone says something and that everybody
just kind of turns it into us all, like those
musical moments happen in our life so much, which is

(32:28):
why like initially I was like, oh, this is a
music I was just like, this is a movie with music,
Like obviously black people are going to make music whenever
they can, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
So moving on to another thing that I don't know
that we talked about this as much as a team,
so I can't say you was universally loved, but definitely
to show that I love that I have talked about
online is like the best thing I have watched in
a very long time was Forever on Netflix.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yeah, so has.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Everybody watched it. You all have watched it.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yes, yeah, Okay, So what did you go into it expecting?

Speaker 3 (33:02):
So I read the book Forever when I was younger,
and so I hoped, in just reading the book Noe
mar brock al kill out that it would incorporate sex
and like the adolescent experience in a very smart.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
And layered way. So I really did.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Now that it's out and people i've seen it, I
think there is a lot of chatter about Keisha being promiscuous.
Not that I agree with that, but if you read
the original text, it challenges your thinking about that. So
I definitely did expect that. Honestly, I will say that
was probably it thematically, like just reading the original Forever,

(33:43):
like that's a big portion or the biggest portion of
the book is like, how are teenagers exploring sex and
romantic relationships? Less about like help because most times like
they're doing it in a smart way, but more about
like the emotional complication and also liking someone, but know
when you're so young. And so those are the themes

(34:04):
that I expected. Now we got a whole lot more
than I enjoyed. But that's kind of how I came.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
To the series. I had not read Forever previously.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
I saw a tweet that was like, I was not
reading Judy Bloom, I was reading Judy Beach Jones.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Was I was.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Definitely reading Judy be Jones. I think that was like
when I was a little bit younger. But I didn't
even know about this book, to be honest, and so
my first experience with it is through the lens of
Mark Brakikhel.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
I was concerned because it is so much about like
a sexual relationship and it's like a time period thing,
and I was like, ooh, but black girls are not
going to be afforded the luxury to explore sexuality on
screen and like, have it be received well. I've never
seen a project that did it. There was this film,
Just Another Girl in the Irt, and it deals with

(34:52):
like teen pregnancy, but it's always very after school special
and not really like this is an autonomous human experience
that's linked to several emotions and not that I worried
about Marl brocka Kill's ability to handle the text and
the subtext. I was just not sure how black media
would cover it. And I'm really happy that it's being,

(35:14):
you know, received well, because I feel like it is
a great show for young kids, and like, we don't
have a lot of teen media currently, but also it's
like a it's an inner child healing series, Like I
think that adults are watching this, and it's like, oh,
I actually didn't get to.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
Experience anything like this. To see this as a kid.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
The closest maybe was like what Moesha and that is
actually traumatizing cinema.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
So I was really happy with how it turned out.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
I also had not read the book before and didn't
really know again what all it was going to be about,
though the previews I think showed me a little bit.
And like you, Tyrie, anything that has like Black Girls,
where there's a potential for a black girl to be
talked about as fast or you know, like as if
she is the only one exploring her sexuality, not her partners,
right like the male partners. It definitely had the potential goals.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Left.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
But I trust no one better than Marl Brokakiel with
a story about black girls, black women, because it feels
like it fits perfectly with like the world she has
created in terms of girlfriends and love is and like
all of these things, and so I just really loved it,
and I have also been shocked by like the ways
that people have been so emotional I think about watching

(36:28):
the series. I think it really has into people's experiences
of like your first love and like the one that
got away maybe, but also like with the parenting, you know,
so I feel like there was something for everybody, which
was very, very surprising, And I, again, like you, Tyrie,
have been really pleased with like the ways that the conversations,

(36:48):
especially around Keisha, the black girl character there have been portrayed,
especially by black men, and now definitely individuals have had
strong reactions to her right, and I think that really
taps into, like you men, like the ways we were
not given grace maybe for mistakes we made, and so
it's hard to see her being given grace. But I
think overall the reception to her has been positive, so

(37:11):
at least I want to ask this next question to
you to start with, because I feel like Forever Now
falls in the genre of you know, we've talked I
think on the podcast around like what do teens have
in terms of media? Right, Like, it feels like there's
a lot missing in terms of like what are they watching?
Are they watching Gracy's Corner, or are they watching you know,
like Beyond the Gates right, like there is not necessarily

(37:33):
like a genre just for them, and so it feels
like it fits into like the all American category, which
I know you have had some strong feelings about I loved,
but you also were like, I don't really know about it.
So what do you think about like Forever kind of
joining that canon and maybe your thoughts about like the
differences between Forever versus like an all American.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Forever was great. I will say I did not bit
all American. All Amica is just it's on the CW.
You know what you're gonna get. There is a level
of corniness. It's of the gossip.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Girl tradition, so you know, we'll leave that there. So
then you have Netflix, so you have a higher production budget, you.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Have a director and showrunner who is known for telling
like black stories, but black stories about relationships and then
about younger people, and so I do think coming into
that you're getting something that's just.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Like a little more layered and a little less cliche
when it.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Comes to the high school experience especially, I think the
two things were, you know, the sex element of it,
but then also the learning disability element of that too,
and the class element. Something that all American I think
was interesting to me was there was this very stark
class divide in the show.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
You still get that in.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Forever, but I think it's more layered than it. It
wasn't American, so I think it was a great teen
show in general. And another thing Terry you mentioned, Mosha,
we don't see black girls date on TV a lot,
and it's not like you should get your dating advice
from television. But I do think a lot of younger

(39:16):
Black girls, like late middle school throughout high school, don't
know how to navigate that. It's not something that at
times you're really open with your parents or maybe you
have an older sister and you can be.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So having that as.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
A model I think is good because there are obviously
poor or like.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Ill informed decisions everyone in the show makes. But then
I think the show is really.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Good at being prescriptive of this is how you navigate
x YZ thing, or this is how you should navigate
x y Z thing, And so I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Very happy that the show exists.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's not salacious in my secret life of an American
teenager way where it's like I don't know if I
want my child watching that, Like, I think this is
something that you could watch and you would come away
with an understanding of this is how maybe my first
time should feel, This is how my partner should treat me,
This is how I can make decisions about my.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Life and going to college.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Ooh, these are the conversations that people are having about sex,
about boys or girls or whoever with their friends and
seeing that as a point of introspection. So I think
it was amazing and I think All American has all
of those things too.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
It's just a CW show, a CW show, tam for sure. Tim. Yeah, yeah,
I feel like I was nervous. First of all. I'll
say I love love you Simone.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
I've loved her since Greenley Sale in the spades, Like
I think she's a great actress and I want to
see her and more stuff because it is like.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
A teen show about like teen love.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I was nervous because of shows like All American, which
I did watch, but it kind of is like watching
a train crash, but you just want to keep watching.
I was talking to my little sister, who's very much
gins and she loves All American.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
And I was like, do you like forever? She's like
it was okay.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
And I think also because it was like like she
enjoyed it, but I think it was like set in
a time that's just unfathomable.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
To her, Like she was like early two thousands. I
was like, it is not in the early two thousands.
Don't say that. I was like like twenty tens okay.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
But I think like when it comes to how conflict
is displayed in like a CW show, it's very like
A plus the equal C and I think in Forever
it was a lot more nuanced and allowed you to
be like if I was in that situation, I really
don't know what I would do. I think it's easier
in like a CW show. Sorry no, no shade to them,
but to be like who would do that?

Speaker 2 (41:41):
In real life? You know, like that doesn't.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Feel like a real response, or you know, it doesn't
totally feel realistic.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
But in Forever, I was like, yeah, maybe I would
have blocked. Maybe I would have you know, or like
maybe it would have.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Been really tough for me in that moment to express
my feelings rather than kind of fading to black for
a week. And even now, like in my early thirties,
those are like watching those things still made me kind
of check in with myself and be like, you know,
is that something that you know thinking about the times

(42:17):
where I have done those things fail to communicate and
just like experiencing caring about someone so much in a
way where you're like, I've never been through this before
and I don't really know how to express it all
the time. And so I think that's why a lot
of people outside of teenagers early twenty year olds like
really enjoyed it, because you see parts of like yourself

(42:38):
and parts of like how you can navigate dating even now,
in a way that just feels realistic.

Speaker 5 (42:45):
I was a Secret Life of the American Teenager fan.
I was watching that show down. That is the one
time I've respected Shalene Woodley. But I think and that
you bring up a good point about one it being
a period piece, it being the twenty tens. You know,
you and I were doing our adolescent dating in twenty tens,

(43:05):
and it was.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Like it was somatic therapy, it was memory work.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
I was watching this now, grants it, I ain't never
blocked nobody in my life, and I think that the
blocking was excessive in this series. But it was interesting
to kind of see like that. I talk about this
a lot. There's like a Bluey to Baddies pipeline for children,
there really is. There's no you know, there's no Yeah,
they're gone. Are the days of Christian Anderson, the Grim Brothers.

(43:32):
They're not there no more. So really the kids are
getting their mores from TV and Twitter. So I love
that they have these sort of case studies, Like even
if your sister thinks like this period is unrealistic, I
don't know that I thought that Degrassi was the most
realistic thing, but it did help me navigate.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
Some conversations around sex as a teenager.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah. My husband and I watched this together, and so
I think that we saw a lot of ourselves in
like the parents Justin's parents, and we have boys, right,
and so I definitely think I was thinking about and
I'm also like reacting to like people having very strong
reactions to Dawn because I feel like I see a
lot of myself and Dawn as a parent. Like, of
course that's the decision we're making, like what are you

(44:14):
talking about? But I do think it is helping me
think about like, Okay, what kinds of conversations do I
want to have with my kids, right, and I could
see like using Forever and like watching that together when
they're a little older and thinking about, Okay, how do
we talk about this. I have also heard from the
whatever gin we are in that the blocking does not
feel accessive to them, like that this is actually how

(44:35):
they are blocking people, right, like any little transgression ends
up with your hitting gloves on, which I think is hilarious.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
I will say when it comes to the parents, like,
I think it was really feeling to see black parents
let their kids, to your point, at least date and
like allow your kid to have their boyfriend or their
girlfriend or their do you say partner in high school?
I don't know their partner over and like hang out,
like while the families in the house invite their family

(45:03):
over for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Like I feel like a lot of people's real.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Life experience, I feel like a bit of my experience
was just like no boyfriend, and so it's like, well.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Now I have to sneak. Okay, you gave me no choice.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
And so it was really nice to see parents like
be involved in their children's relationships because it's like your
kid is curious, like your kid is going to date,
like you might as well allow them to do it
in front of your face.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I know Don was.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
A little she had like a tighter leash on him,
but I think like even them just having the conversation,
or like when Keyshok had like a moment and wood
Harris I forget his name, and the show was like
go check on her and go make sure she's good.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I was like, wow, like that is to me? It
was just like really really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
To see more for our conversation after the break, there
has been a lot of conversation around Eric. Eric is
the dad's name around, like the way that he showed
up right and that we don't often see portrayals of

(46:11):
black fatherhood the way that we saw with Eric. Any
reactions to that are things that you want to share
about Eric.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
I thought it was really cool how candidly he spoke
about having a wife who her connections are what built
his career and he wasn't emasculated by that. And the
way he spoke about Keisha his wife other women was
great to see, but it wasn't like he was necessarily

(46:37):
putting them on a pedestal. He was just being realistic
about the benefits of partnership. And I love how he
did not judge Keisha, like never was there anything about
her being fast or anything like that, because that is
the sentiment you kind of got from Dawn Lamar.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
And he was even just this is normal. It was
kind of a sentiment. I really did appreciate that one.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Just I felt he was so rooted in like his
masculinity and gay just it was funny but needed advice
about like sex and condoms. And even when Justin was heartbroken,
he was kind of like, this is a part of life.
I did appreciate that because I don't think a lot
of parents speak openly also that like you are going

(47:19):
to get your heart broken. Sorry is going to happen,
and that's okay. It's not the end of the world.
And it seemed like his mom's response was like you
need to get up and get over it a little bit,
or let's block Keisha out of your life. And I
think his dad was a little more nuanced than that.
But then also just seeing them as like a partnership
was really great, Like without this person, I wouldn't be

(47:41):
where I am. But this is like our life, our household,
our community, and so yeah, I thought Wood Harris played
that role excellently.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
More black dads like that on TV.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
That's all yeah, no notes, Yeah, I appreciate you bringing
that up at least because it did feel like there
was a lot of raw Raye energy for the ways
that Dawn was able to help Eric build his business,
but then when she wanted to use those same connections
to like help Justin like get into school and think
about his future, then it feels like she was demonized
and it's like okay, and now are we okay with
her like using her network? So I thought that that

(48:15):
was a bit of a the achademy that I found
interesting that it was okay to help him build his restaurant,
but then helping Justin get into Northwest and it felt like, Okay,
we shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
So I saw this TikTok that was talking about how,
and the sitcog was wrong in saying this, but how
the show was very like pro handling your kid's life.
It was very pro like the black upper middle class experience.
And I thought that what the show really unveiled was like,

(48:46):
how do you guide with a firm hand, but like
let your kid be who they are, because at the
end of the day, I think there could have been
some conversations about, hey, justin you can go to Northwestern,
but how can we build like a music life or
musical experience with that, or how can you buy to
like Berkeley School and music things like that. And I
think the show had like a critical lens of Donna.

(49:09):
I don't think it was like this is the right
way to parent or this is the wrong.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Way to parent. It was very nuanced, and so I
really did appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
But I think what was also really interesting is I
still think like as a whole, the black community is
very touchy on like nepotism, but like, at the end
of the day, that is.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
The way it is and the way it should be.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
If my parent went somewhere and I want to go there,
why wouldn't you fight tooth and nail, hit up your connections,
go to these alumni events. But that's what it even
if you didn't have those connections. Just from my college experience,
like neither of my parents went to USC, some of
my dads like Lyne brothers did. I had cousins, and

(49:49):
I was hitting every point to see like how can
I make myself seen in this space because other people
are seeing based off living in California having parents who
went there, and so I thought that was a very
interesting conversation that the show brought up, like how far
will you go for your kid to get what they want?
And why wouldn't you use kind of the resources and

(50:12):
connections to make that easier. I think it still makes
people a little bit uncomfortable, and it's like what we
work so hard for, so the generations behind us can
have it a bit easier. And so I thought it
was really cool to see that on television. And although
there was tension there because he didn't necessarily want it,

(50:33):
I think it was, like I said, it was good
to see it, and I thought it was a very
fair portrayal of like how that goes.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
And I know that's not like.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Normal for everyone, but I think we should I normalize
such an annoying word, but I think we should be
more comfortable with saying like, hey, I know this person,
I had this experience. If my cousin, my child, my niece,
whoever wants that same experience, why wouldn't I open that
door for them? High school teacher, that was like, your

(51:02):
journey as a black person is not like more valid
because you struggled. Don't invite a struggle where it's not
truly not necessary, because there will be tons that exist.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Now anyway, we'll come on their own, Like, don't need
for extra.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Right, I agreed with don No child of mine is
pursuing music. Actually, go you take your behind the college
and that's could be a fun little hobby, but you're
gonna get a real job.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
I'm tired of it.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yes, you said my child won't be mustard on the beat,
he won't.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
A trade or something, because that's how I read it. Yeah,
it didn't even have to be Northwest. He could have
carried it on down to the community college and got
an HVAC. But that that music absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
I just sorry, you are right, I think, just to
add another level, it also speaks to like knowing and
it's sad that it is this way, and I think
like in our current cultural climate, like it's kind of
being broken down.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
But like how much.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
A degree can do for you, whether or not you're
using that degree. And I think that's also kind of
what what Harris's character was alluding to, Like without my
wife's degree, I would not have this restaurant. And so
it's uncomfortable because we know that there some schools just
come with the name and the network that not everyone
has access to. But I think it was really important

(52:30):
to like have a parent not necessarily put that pressure,
but a parent who like was saying like, I don't
really care, like I want you to go to Northwestern,
but at the end of the day, like you're not
understanding what this will open up for you.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
And I think that's what his mom was saying as well.
But she was just trying to get him to go
to Northwestern r.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
And I wonder how much of it was that, like
she wanted him to follow in her footsteps or that
is where she had the connections, right, Like that is
where she was able to most easily open some doors
for him, you know. So I don't even know that
it was so much about Northwestern and specific and then
it was that's where her connections was.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
She just seemed quite hard though. I feel like it
was a little bit of both.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
She was like, maybe maybe so we want to wrap
up by talking about something that is taking over all
of our TikTok for you pages and all the Instagram
reels about the Cowboy quarters. Who are so I have
not personally experienced it yet. My show is down until
July here in Atlanta. But of course I have tuned

(53:28):
into some of the Instagram and TikTok lives, so I
feel like I have seen the show.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
But what are your.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Thoughts about Cowboy Quarter? Are you going? How are you prepping?
Is the outfit ready?

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Like?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
What are you feeling and thinking around the Cowboys?

Speaker 5 (53:41):
Last show date I was supposed to go, right, We'll
start with the confession. Was supposed to go on a
Sunday in New Jersey East Rutherford, but I was barbecuing
that day and the community really they really took a
lot out of me.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
And that, yeah, I couldn't do it.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
The commute from Brooklyn to New Jersey and back, it
just was never It.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
Wasn't gonna work.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
Uncle was tired and they had to go to see
But it also rained that show, so like that was
a different kind of show.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
I think for a lot of people. I am proud
of my niece Roomy.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
She locked in and she know she gave the people
what was rehearsed, what Blue had approved. So I was
happy about that. But I think I'm going to try
to make another show, Okay.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
So I went to see Cowboy Carter on the last
night in Los Angeles. I bought a ticket last minute,
as I always.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Do, and I can see it's on your level.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
See if you're on the fence, just wait till the
day or the day before, because I will say I
saw the same tickets.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
The day before and they were like fifty dollars cheaper.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
But yeah, the week up, that's when the tickets start
to drop significantly. I really did enjoy the show. I
would say it was a very different show than Renaissance.
I feel like Renaissance totally story. This was more themed
Cowboy Carter, but I didn't feel like there was an
arc from beginning to end. That's not to say it
wasn't an excellent show, but I wouldn't go in expecting that.

(55:11):
What you can't expect are a fair amount of songs
from Renaissance, So it did feel like Renaissance Part two.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
My favorite song on Cowboy.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Carter is Flamenco, and so she performed that and that
was one of the best performances before I Let Go.
Was really good when the dancers were dancing to that.
Of course, seeing Rouey and Blue is excellent, and Blue
really does blend in as a background dancer, which I
think is amazing to have that level of talent at

(55:41):
that age. And when she does her little catwalk, I'm like, oh, like,
I hate to push modeling on children.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'm like, oh, boys, it's that how we can't fall?
It was so good.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
I really enjoyed the costumes as well. I think these
are excellent. They are definitely definitely rivaling Renaissance for me.
So I need a look book of every different one.
I think it's always fun to just see, like what
designers is she gonna partner with and how are they
going to explore this being in their own way. She

(56:15):
did a scap reality look last night, I think in
New York, and that.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Was really good.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
She did tell far looks she did like a Cowboy
Nicks or was a Yankees outfit, and so I think
that is really cool about the show, the way she
plays with costume design. And I will say the set
design on this was also a little underwhelming for me.
It was still big, it was still very showy, but
like the b outfit and Cowboy Carter and how that

(56:42):
interacted with the set, the clam at the like those
things are not Cowboy Carter.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
This was all Renaissance.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Those are really exciting, So you're not getting that I
don't want to say depth with that cohesion between the
songs and the set design to me with But nevertheless
it's good.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
I can usually go in I will be going.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Again so in base yeah, okay, So my anxiety will
not allow me to wait until the week of the
show too, Like I feel like the idea that I
might miss out on being able to go to the
tour because I didn't pre plan. Although the jump in
prices is like extreme, right, like what I've paid for

(57:23):
my hundred level it sounds like it's very different than
what you got your one hundred level ticket there. But
I feel like my anxiety will not allow me to
wait until like the week up a show to wait now,
And then you said you were going to offer some
thoughts on why you didn't get a ticket to the tour.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Okay, so before anybody jumps on it.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
So I thoroughly enjoyed Renaissance, right, I went to see
the tour twice. I had five computers open getting tickets, Like,
I thoroughly enjoyed that show. So I listened to Cowboy
Carter and there are definitely songs I enjoy, but I
feel like and I appreciate the like world expanding into

(58:04):
the genre of like country music. I also loved Daddy
Lessons on Lemonade, like that was that I loved that song.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
But I think like I was just like, Okay, the
turnaround time is kind of quick.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
I don't know if I felt like Cowboy Carter itself
needed its own tour. Granted, I know she's doing a
much more like truncated tour for this album, and I
was a little worried that it would be like Renaissance
Pack Part two and that like act too. And when
I saw the videos of the tour, I'm like, Okay,

(58:35):
we're seeing the Renaissance Robot again. Which granted, this is
not to say that any parts of the show wouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Fantastic, but I was just curious to know like how
different it was gonna be.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
So I think I just like made assumptions, and I'm like,
if a ticket ends up in my.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Hand, I will say, okay, I'll go.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
But listening to you at least say it's like quite different,
I'm like okay, Like, but I think like I just
made assumptions, being like okay, so what is it going
to give for the Cowboy Carter tour? And also, y'all
consert tickets are expensive, so at Soquinn, I'm like, I need.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
To put my foot down, but we'll see what appens.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
The only reason I'm going again is because one Vegas
is just a hop and a skip in a way
from LA. But my sister was like, what do you
want for your birthday? She was like, I love to
like go to a concert Life five somewhere, and we're
seeing Kendrick when I'm in d C. So I'm like, okay,
you know that's no fun. So she was like, I'll
get Cowboy Carter tickets.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
I say, we're going shot them out out of that.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Yeah, because concert tickets are so expensive, Like I want
to see the weekend Who's coming to LA at the
end of June and Marrie, you look at tickets, I'm like,
another two hundred and fifty dollars.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
That's almost five hundred dollars for uber there.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
If I want a beverage, no an alcoholic or alcoholic,
that's one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Hundred and there's no merch to be had. Then after that,
then if you that merch, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Yeah, you have to make a whole day out of it,
and all the extra ancillary stuff. It's gonna be at
least one hundred dollars. There's a lot of extra line items,
for sure. I have really enjoyed the outfits. My best
friend's little sister went in I think La so that
might have been at the beginning of the tour, and
their mom made her this like luxurious, like long bandana

(01:00:28):
skirt with like I don't know, safety bandanas, and she
went viral and so that was just like a nice
moment to see like a mom who made.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
A costume and it's like girl, people are asking about this.
I've enjoyed like the looks that been pulling for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah. So at last, did you go in theme? Did
you have your cowboy cowgirl outfit on? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Yeah, I had this shirt I got in Mexico.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
It's like a button down with like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Floral embellishments, and I wore leather pants and then some
dinner cowboy boots the d Then I have a fan
because I was like I need for this, so you
but I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
To have.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
A different outfit for Vegas. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
I literally was like I want to dress like the
song for Manco. So that was in my brain and
I did it. So now I'm like, what other song
do I want? Like spaghetti honey bucking? That might be
a good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
One to borrow inspirations.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I don't don't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Yeah, I heard that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
I don't like that. Oh well, you know, I am
actually a black dandy. A lot of people don't notice.
But if you're in Atlanta and you are like getting
on a horse carriage, there's like a one and eight
chance that that is my uncle. Like I grew up
on a stable as a stable boy. I guess you
could say. So anything in my closet at any time

(01:01:50):
would have big cowboy card already. I got like seven
denim shirts, a bowlo tie, I would and.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
It would have been it would have been there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Okay, you are ready? You are so speaking of these
songs that y'all love or not? Is there any song
at least you're the only one who has gone, but
we clearly all have seen clips. Is there any song
that she did not perform that you are missing that
you're like, Oh, I really wish that would have been
a part of the show.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
I actually have thoughts on this.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
I feel like Beyonce is really good at doing covers
at her shows, and I was hoping that she would
have covered more classic country records like from other artists.
I would have loved that she would have done like
The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia, if she
would have done The Heart Never Forgets, which I feel
like is the black country anthem because of Moesha.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
Yeah, Like there were just.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
More songs if You're Not Back in Love by Monday
by Merle Haggard, like I feel like, because the whole
album is about like reintroducing blackness to country, Like playing
with that would have been dope to me.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
But you know, there's still time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
I feel like there is still time.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
I feel like speaking to like country songs that black
folks go up for Tennessee Whiskey, and because I know
she has her like certain David's moment during the show,
who I've never met a black person who does not
love test you would Scape by Chris Stapleton or whoever
else decides to cover it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
That is undoubtedly just an amazing song. I think that
would be like my pitch for a cover for the show.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
So that's the other thing that I have been surprised
about is that there are no special guests in this show, right, Like,
so Kendrick came out, Meg has come out in Renaissance,
and so I definitely was expecting to see Miley when
see Shabouzzi maybe and there are no guests here. Are
we surprised by that or were you expecting this to
be like just her?

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
I think Beyonce said my kids, My.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Kids are the guests.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
I'm curious if once we get to like the southern
Southern shows, because we're not there yet, people other people
will come out. I could also see Vegas is it
being more like showy city? So I'm curious like Nashville
in Houston, like if those will be the cities with guests.
But I was also surprised at that too, Doctor Joy,

(01:04:08):
I'm kind of curious because you know a lot of
people will not watch anything online before they see the tour.
And you sound like you've seen some stuff like what's
your kind of take on seeing like spoilers or previews
before you actually see it in real life.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
So I don't look up spoilers and stuff for like
movies and things. But I'm also not a huge concert person,
like I'm a just big Beyonce person, and so typically
I think I would not, but I feel like it's
also really kind of hard to miss right now. Right
until now, I'm just like, Okay, well, I'm still going
to enjoy it when it's my turn to go in person.
But I definitely have been tuned into some of the

(01:04:47):
lives now. I don't think i've made it to the
end of the show because it also feels very long,
but I've definitely seen like the opening actors. I'm not spoilers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
I feel like what concerts is fine, you're what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I feel like she did that for Renaissance. Also, though,
are some others who are like she's done a gender
reveal and like she didn't understand like what they were
asking her.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
To do this moment, but insane, that was a spent
this money to try to force this play some rebellion
baby gender.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
For the rest, we don't need to know. That's not
what I paid for.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Work. We did not ask to come to your gender reveal. Also,
I'm kind of stotch.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
That's so funny. So I saw a comment because of
course Mama Tina reposted like the gender reveal, and I
think the dad was in the comment saying like we
did not at all expect that like she would actually
see us, like we did it of course hoping, but
didn't at all expect that she was, and so that
it was such a memorable moment. Also, I think that
they was just like taking a chance, right, like Okay,

(01:05:52):
we're already gonna be here, Like why not try to
make this moment for our future child.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
That's a nice part of the child's lore her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Yes, And I feel like this is the second child
and the first child. I think the first child's name
is Carter, and so the child has like all this
cowboy quarter and birch and so I mean, so it
definitely feels like a big Beyonce family. So I think
it was cute that they.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Were able to help.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
That is cute.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
I was watching Blue from like the first tour to
seeing her now like speaking of nepotism or this is
nepotism that I fully support, Like this is black nepotism
at its peak, And like she's thirteen and she is
professionally dancing, like not just for one but like throughout

(01:06:39):
the show you can tell that she's been in rehearsal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
I love when you can tell a performer has been
in rehearsal. And Blue Ivy is a performer.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Like watching a young black girl just be confident and
strut and dance and like have her moment, especially because
you know, like I feel like Blue Ivy and like
the critiques around her said she she was a child,
had been a lot, and I think they talked about
how she's kind of seen some of that, you know,
it's in her like older years. So just seeing her

(01:07:09):
like stunt on everybody is something that warms my heart
so much. And I just feel like if she's here
now at thirteen, like when she is twenty, like and
obviously she has access to the best of the best,
like the best of the best trainers. I think Beyonce's
dance Captain has kind of like taken Blue Ivy under
her wing. I'm just excited to see Blue Ivy like

(01:07:31):
evolved as.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Whatever she decides to do. But she clearly loves the stage.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I'm excited to see her like evolve further into that
because I think she's killing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
She really so in the Deja Vou solo to me
is like the best, Like did you know how you
would not be able to tell me anything? First of all,
if Beyonce was my mom, and I was like doing
her deja vu choreography years later, like and like summoning
all of who she was when she was doing it,
Like is It's just I kind of like, I'm just

(01:08:01):
so proud of her. She looks like she's having so
much fun, and like you said, she clearly has been
in rehearsals and like is a very studied performer and
really working part of the show. So it's just been
incredible to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
See ery Blue iby.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Well, this has been so much fun. I was always
looking forward to catching up on our next roundtable when
we talk about more of what we're watching. Quickly, let
the people know where they can find you if they
want to see more of your thoughts around pop culture
and all the things you start end day.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
You can find me on Instagram at in Day Last Soul.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
That's in d E y E l A s o
U L.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Maybe I'll start posting more on my not close friends
with my thoughts and things, so maybe I'll do that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
But yeah, that's where I am.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
What about you, relief?

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
You can follow me on Instagram at e l l
I C E l l I s. It's just my
first in my last name, but there's no extra or
additional E at the end of my last name. I
also have a TikTok's my TikTok oh, my tik talk
is the same thing, so yeah on all platforms and me, oh, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
You, doctor Joy. I also have a substack and you can.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Search it on Google if you search a few minutes.
Elise Ellis, I talk about media wellness and I share
article recommendations. So if you like this conversation, there's some
of that there.

Speaker 5 (01:09:18):
Perfect and Tyri you can follow me at ty Relvin
on all socials stud is t y R E l
PI N. I'm probably telling a joke on a stage
and some of those videos, so laugh at it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Please be sure to get your lass in well. Thank
y'all so much. I appreciate y'all joining me for this conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
Thank you for having us.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
I'm so glad the production team was able to join
me for this conversation. We always love a good pop
culture conversation. We'd love to hear what resonated with you
in this episode. Be sure to tag us and use
the hashtag tv in Session, or join us over in
our Patreon channel to talk more about the episode. You
can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot

(01:10:07):
com and don't forget to text this episode to two
of your girls right now so that they can check
it out. Did you know that you could leave us
a voicemail with your suggestions or questions for the podcast.
If you have movies or books you'd like us to
check out, or even have ideas about who you'd like
to hear as a guest, drop us a voicemail at
Memo dot fm, slash Therapy for Black Girls and let

(01:10:29):
us know what's on your mind. We just might feature
it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists
in your area, be sure to visit our therapist directory
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. This episode
was produced by Elise Ellis Tyree Rush and in day Tubu.
Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so

(01:10:50):
much for joining us for this special episode. We'll be
back with your regular episode in next Wednesday. Until next time,
take good care

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
The what the What's Wood

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