August 30, 2023 • 42 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
How many of us can say that we have a friendship that is 5, 10, or even 15 years old? If you thought that was rare, how about being friends for most of your lives? For today’s session, we’re joined by lifelong besties of 26 years Lamaya, Aketa, and Keely. Dubbing themselves AMW for ‘America’s Most Wanted,’ this girl group has navigated moves around the country, the raising of children, and busy careers, all while still making time for sisterhood.
In our session today, you’ll hear the AMW crew talk all about their growth as a friend group from college to adulthood, ways to stay connected when your besties live far apart, and how they’ve managed to maintain their sisterhood in the midst of personal life developments.
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Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Take the Sisterfriend Quiz to find out your role in the circle.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three twenty two of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you?
And your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker,
the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels
dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make
(01:20):
sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find
out more about how you can be a better friend
and how your circle can do a better job of
supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhood Heels dot com.
How many of us can say that we have a
friendship that is five years old, ten years old, or
(01:43):
even fifteen years old. If you thought that was rare,
how about being friends for most of your lives. Lifelong
sisterhood is a rare yet beautiful phenomenon that brings new
meaning to the term ride or Die. For today's session,
we're joined by lifelong besties of twenty six years le Maya,
(02:05):
Akita and Keihley, dubbing themselves AMW for America's Most Wanted.
This girl group has navigated moves around the country, the
raising of children, and busy careers, all while still making
time for sisterhood. In our session today, you'll hear the
AMW crew talk all about their growth as a friend
(02:26):
group from college to adulthood, ways to stay connected when
your besties live far apart, and how they've managed to
maintain their sisterhood in the midst of personal life developments.
And as a special bonus, the interludes for today's episodes
are selected excerpts from my book, Sisterhood Heels, which is
available to purchase wherever books are sold. If something resonates
(02:49):
with you while enjoying our conversation, Please share with us
on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or
join us over in the Sister Circle. To talk more
about the episode. You can join us at community dot
therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi, I'm Maya, and I'm here to introduce my posse,
a trio called amw Who are we? A gang member,
a soccer player, and a Southern bell. We met in
nineteen ninety seven at wake Forest University. Actually only one
of these descriptions is accurate. Keeley the Southern bell who
wore a sweatshirt that read Southern Girls Don't Sweat. We listen.
Assumed that Keita, with her lean, athletic build and muscular legs,
(03:36):
must be on scholarship as a soccer player, and that
may and me was a gang member from the notorious
Tray four because I wore a red bandana. First impressions aside,
we fostered a decades long friendship that has helped us
navigate some of the most wonderful and difficult times of
our lives. Meet Keighley, an attorney and our resident fashion
e Stemp Kita, an EEO diversity expert and our resident
(03:57):
voice of reason. And me, Maya, a PhD student and
teacher and our resident dreamer. Our journey includes cartwheels and
espresso shots on the quad annual Wonderful Weekends, moves all
over the country, overseas and back, miscarriage and pregnancies, marriage
and dating, and more recently, cancer diagnoses in the loss
of parents. We're all busy these days with working school, family, yoga, teaching,
(04:19):
raising kids and young adults, and of course commiserating on
all the bullsh constantly thrown in Black women. We get tired,
but we keep going, squeezing every drop out of life.
We are America's most wanted a moniker given to us
in nineteen ninety eight by the unfortunate girlfriend of a
first class boy. But we can tell you more about
that later.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I know Drake made it popular to proclaim no new friends,
but I have to strongly disagree with this sentiment. Being
open to new sister friends at any stage of our
lives should be a goal we all aim for. The
truth is you probably haven't met all the people who
will love you, and being open to finding new people
(04:57):
who can add to the rich relationships you might already
as a kind and loving act Towards your Own Healing,
Page one ninety one.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Well, we're all friends from wake Forest University and we're
on the freshman hall together. And wake Forest is a
primarily white institution, so when you have three black women
on the same freshman hall, it is easy to identify.
And so when I saw two women on my hall
that looked like me, I was like, oh, okay, well
who do we have here? And so le Maya dressed
(05:28):
in preparation I guess to do some heavy lifting, had
on a bandana. I think you had on like a
baggy outfit, maybe like some baggy jeans or shorts or something.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I was like, okay, I'm right because we're moving in too,
a dor mega and so I was.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Like, she is got some street cred. And then Akita,
she looked very instill. It was very athletic. She was
long a lean, had on like I think they were
soccer shorts. There's some type of athletic shorts. So I
was like, well, huh, is she like on a soccer team?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
One?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I had picked her to be an athlete, and
so I am.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
The Southern bell.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So those were my initial impressions on the two ladies
on the call now that are now to my best friend.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Amw. We will not incriminate those that gave us that moniker,
but we have taken it and it has lived with
us and it has developed. But we were once greeted
on the quad on our way to the cafeteria by
someone that said, oh my gosh, it's America's most wanted.
Because we had solidified our status on campus by this point,
we did not know we were America's most wanted. But
we'll take it. As all of our beautiful black women
(06:36):
are America's most wanted, we will take that for the sisterhood.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
My sister friend, Defisa and I had many conversations while
in grad school at the University of Georgia about how
it was fun to date and think about married life,
but that it was our relationship with one another where
sweetness was really found. The conversations we were able to
have with one another, the support, laughter, and ease, all
felt like what life partnership should really be. I've been
(07:04):
so excited to see more people thinking about their relationships
with their girls in this way. For all the wonderful
things that can come with romantic love, our relationships with
our girls are often where we really come alive in
many ways. Our girls are where we can exist outside
of any life role we're expected to take on. Yes,
I am someone's wife, I am someone's mother, I am
(07:28):
someone's therapist. But when I'm with my girls, I'm just
with my girls as they are with me. Introduction page nineteen.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Oh my gosh, so many really good memories. I'm going
to talk about cartwheels on the quad. So there was
lots of work to be done at WAKE, and I
don't know was it final exam period or some period
of time where we all were just like up, like
(07:58):
working NonStop, and there was the Starbucks on campus. So
we said, we're going to go to Starbucks and we
are going to take I don't know how many shots
of I was about to say tequila, but not tequila.
That was creater.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
That was late night.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
This was espresso. We had taken all these shots of
espresso because we were like, we're gonna be up, We're
gonna get this work done. And then we were so
wired none of us could sit down at our desk
to do any work. So we go out to the
quad and we're just like, I don't know, who knows
what we're doing but at a certain point we were
doing cartwheels on the quad in the middle of campus
(08:34):
when we're supposed to all be in our respective door
rooms or the library doing all this work. That we
took the shots expresso for it. So it's just so
many of those hysterical memories that we look back on
year after year and just giggle again, like it was
that day.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I want to talk about the trash can Wars because
we literally just had this reminder a couple of months
ago with one of my daughters who had a similar event.
But we used to have this annual thing on campus,
and I don't even know where it started, but it
was annual. It was a water gun fight. So we
started with water gun fights. We would surprise each other,
not just the three of us, like pretty much it
(09:11):
was all I want to say, It was all black
people on campus. It was an unspoken organized event where
we just knew we had to carry our water guns
or we need to be prepared to get got before class.
So somehow that war for us escalated with a core
group of guy friends who one of us is married
to today, La Maid and her husband, he and his roommate,
(09:32):
and somehow it escalated to trash can wars, and so
this is how you know you were like comfortable and
you were with your people because you do stupid stuff
like this. I don't think we can get in trouble
for this now, but we would take trash cans and
line them up against the boy's door, and so when
(09:53):
they opened the door, the whole trash can just flooded
into their dorm room. Do not ask us where the
brainch out for this operation came from, But don't worry.
They got us back. But we just found joy in
being free and silly and goofy and just connecting with
our community in very crazy ways on campus. But we
had a good chuckle about trash can wars recently, so
(10:14):
I thought I shared that one.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, that one is one of the ones that we
still talk about today. Because my husband was like, I
couldn't believe that y'all puts spoiled milk under our door.
So my husband and his roommate, they stayed in the
dorm across from us, and we poured like I don't
know where we got rotten milk from, but we can, yeah, yeah,
and we poured it under there like we opened up
(10:36):
the cart and I poured it under there. Okay, we
were just ridiculous. Another memory that I think of that
just always makes me smile is the night we decided,
(10:58):
but we're not just gonna go to then, we're gonna
go to the Hands fully decked out like we're going
I don't even know where we thought we were going
and who Hands was a restaurant, I'm not sure it's
still in existence. But we got on like all black.
One of us had on a crop top, I can't
remember who we had on like leather. We did our
makeup like we had real special eyebrows that we had
(11:20):
drawn on. I think I had a mold that I
put out like it was so much and we were
just like, yeah, this were we getting ready to do.
So we just dressed up and you know, all this
real special attire and went out to eat and like
that was our Saturday night and we just had so
much fun doing.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And again, not sure which one of us was like, hey,
let's go do this, but we were all down. We
were like, yes, we get.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Ready to do this.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We're all gonna do this, and we're all gonna have
fun and we're just gonna go out in these streets
in Winston looking like this.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Healing can come in surprising ways. It doesn't always have
to look like heartfelt, teary, I deeper than deep conversations,
although it's okay if it does. What about the year
you and you girls headed out of town for a
long weekend and had the time of your lives. You
remember how refreshed and re energized you felt when you
(12:08):
got back home, I mean, once you finally slept. Y'all
still talk about it to this day, don't you. That
wasn't just a turn up or a really good time.
That was healing. Throughout the course of our lives, this
pattern of being there for one another repeats itself over
and over again. As we heal our sisters, they heal
(12:30):
us Introduction, page twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
One of the things I think about post college is
the times that we get together. They're really special because
of course we're living in three different parts of the
country and it's been like that for a while. But
the times that we're able to come together, they're just
they're magic. And I remember using a Kita in Texas
(13:02):
when she lived there for her baby shower, and I
remember the look on her face because she truly was.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
She was surprised.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
She didn't know we were going to be there. And
I'm sure they have a similar story about my fortieth birthday.
But those moments, and it's just like, these are my people,
these are my sisters, you know, and I just I'm
just so thankful that we have that. But we make
it happen even though it's, you know, tough, and everybody
has schedules, and we always show up for each other
and we need to.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I agree, and I guess may and you brought up
your birthday, which is definitely one of the highlights, so
we hit. I don't know where we come up with
these ideas. I mean, granted, fortieth birthdays are a milestone
for most, but for us, we decided we're getting together
on each other's fortieth birthday. Did we decide that as
a group or Akita? Did you and I decided because
what we did was we surprised Lemaya. So we've lived
(13:49):
in separate states, like Lemya said, for a long time,
and each of us, in our different lives, have different
opportunities to get together with other girlfriends, and I think
some of us don't have as many opportunities the other
because of kids and just where they are physically and
where they are in life. But we said, for La
Maaya's birthday, we are getting her out. We're going to
(14:09):
do something fun. And we also always call every time
we get together a reunion, so we said, we're going
to have this reunion. So we concocted this entire plan,
and we showed up at le Maaya's door on her
birthday weekend fortieth birthday, rung the doorbell, and of course
her husband was involved in the plan because we needed
her to be in place at the right time, and
we snuck her away to have a weekend of fun,
(14:31):
which ended up only being what a day and a
half due to snow, and we went to Ashville and
had a great girl's weekend, just like hanging out, doing
nothing in particular, but just having a chance to be
together and reconnect, which I agree has been so fruitful
for me, so rejuvenating to kind of get together with
your real good girlfriends, your good good girlfriends, and just remember, reflect,
(14:54):
trip out, figure out what's new, what's challenging us today,
and to kind of encourage this.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
For each other and celebrate each other. I agree, and
I think it's important to note. We communicate daily and
we do so through an app called Marco Polo. But
when we have these retreats, of these reunions, we still
have so much to talk about. And so that's just again,
it's just like a reiteration of these are my people
and they give me life. And you know, we've talked
(15:19):
about wonderful moments getting together, and we've had some tough
times too, We've had some significant loss And Toequila's point,
there's not an event, there's not a moment. When I
lost my mom about three years ago, they were right there.
They were right there and it wasn't a question of
when or if or how. And for them, I am
(15:40):
always forever grateful because it never is a question of
winter for how, they will always be there and I
know they will.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Be Longevity within a sister circle is often a blessing,
and it also means that you've likely experienced some significant
life stuff together as well. Research indicates that having a
strong support system is a significant factor in being able
(16:05):
to rebound following a life stressor To ensure that our
systems stay intact, it is important to know how to
support each other through difficult experiences. Page one.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Having lost my mom, just even just difficult decisions that
we've gone through in life and had to make. And
I'm raising two children as a single mother, and you know,
I need my village and they are absolutely the city
hall of my village. Right, But the form of support
doesn't always have to be physical. The form of support,
(16:38):
you know, is certainly through the phone. It's certainly a
phone call. I am probably the last one on the
screen to answer my phone. I'll acknowledge that. But when
I see the missed phone calls and when I see
the text messages, I know that they're there. I know
that they're thinking. I'll get random cards in the mail right,
and it's just the acknowledgment that, hey, you're going through something,
(16:59):
so okay to be stressed out, it's okay to be tired.
Just know that I'm here, And just to even pull
a card like that from the mailbox and know that
Lemey was thinking about something I probably hadn't even talked
to them about, right, Keeli will send me a quick
note on the side and just say, you know, Keita,
I know you're not going to respond. I know you aren't,
but you know, just know that I'm here. And that's
(17:19):
to your point. Twenty six years of that, a lot
of people don't have that in their families, they don't
have it in their lives, and so we are incredibly
blessed and we realize that. So just being and showing
up in any kind of way possible is what I
can say we've done for each other.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I agree. And I feel like the other thing is
you feel fully invested, Like these aren't just my friends.
I'm so invested in how they're doing, how their children
are doing, their children's accomplishments, their children's stumbles, like all
of it just feels like, oh gosh, we are going
through this now, we need to get it together. Now,
we need to figure this out. Now, we need to
(17:55):
celebrate this. And so there's a lot of joy in that.
And like you said, when you come to the those
times where it's challenging or where you're dealing with a
true loss or sadness, you know that it's also a
safe space to come and share that, or even when
you're just upset and you want to vent. Because parenting, marriage,
like all that stuff, being a member of a family,
(18:16):
like all of that comes with challenges and you need
to be able to come to a place and be like,
you know what, today I am upset about this and
everybody's like yep, yep, yep, or they're like, now, you know,
you need to calm down a little bit, but we
understand how you feel. So just being able to have
a safe space for that, I think is so healthy.
And again, I just feel so invest it, so it
doesn't ever feel like it's an effort, like it's like, Okay,
(18:38):
we got to make this work because we need to
be there for this. We need to be there because
the babies are graduating, we need to be there because
someone has passed. It's what we do not you know,
they expect us to come, so we need to be there.
It's no, we need to be present. We want to
be present. And I'll just.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Echo that with the whole concept of the safe space,
like we're one hundred percent there for each other. But
there is something about having the space to come in
and say what we need to say and not be
judged or like ke they said say well come on now,
else so you're doing too much or maybe you should
feel this way. It is so for me, it's extremely
like it's vital. There are times I'm like, you know,
(19:13):
we haven't been on Marco Polo in a while, like
what's going on? Like I need to know what's going on,
what's going on in right his life. And then there
are times when I'm so stressed or I'm so down,
or I'm so frustrated about something and I need to
just talk to them and say, like, this is what's
going on with me, and to have them we say,
just give us a hell yeah, just a hell yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's enough sometimes to be like Okay, I got it,
I can move on. It's so important because I feel like,
especially for me, I'm here in Virginia. We moved here
a couple of years ago, and I don't have a
strong network of friends here or anything, you know, like
to hang out with. And when I first came initially,
I mean I had nobody, and so to be able
to talk to my girls like I've always have made
that transition.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Too much easier for me.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Even though physically they're not always with me, I'm not alone.
I always have them if I need to, and if again,
if something really was stressful, I could call either of
them and they would make it happened. They would come,
they would do whatever they need to do just to
make sure that I was okay. And I want to
say this too, my father passed this year and I
wasn't even ready to be around people.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I was managing and grieving and trying to get things
together and saying busy, and they were like, nope, we're
getting together. What we can works for you when we
getting together? Like where are we going? And it was
just like, no, we're not going to let you kind
of power through this without like taking a moment. And
I appreciate that even though I wasn't. I wasn't fully ready,
they were just like, oh, we're getting together, Come on,
where we're going? You know that type of thing. So
it's just that knowing that they're going to always be there,
(20:33):
that knowing that they're always riding with me, supporting me,
all that stuff. It's incredible and it shows how much
we have grown in this friendship since the late nineties.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
How might your circle look and feel different with everyone
showing a similar level of commitment to showing up. I
get it. Schedules get hectic, we are often busy being takers,
and life otherwise continues to life in those instances. The
first thing we tend to drop is time with our girls.
But if our sister circles are the lifelines we often
(21:11):
know them to be, it is important to treat them
as such. While weekly get together as may not be possible,
I want you in your circles to think about what
is possible. How active is the group chat? Are you
marking important dates on your calendar so that you're less
likely to forget someone's important event? What plans are you
all making to get together soon? And how are you
(21:32):
planning to protect that time Page forty five.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
So we don't let a year go by without seeing
each other. That's something I think is unspoken, but it
is absolutely a dedicated thing. Like we call those reunions retreats,
we'll pick somewhere. We've been mostly eastside for quite a bit.
I believe we're supposed to be having the Arizona at some
point by way of like what, I don't know. There's
(21:58):
a couple of islands we're supposed to be making, But
at the end of the day, we picked places to
go to. I want to say the last time we
got together it was aside from being here with me,
we were in Virginia, Lansdowne so we were picking a
resort because we realized we weren't going to make it
to the Salamander. But we do that. We're intentional about that.
We're intentional about sending cards in the mail. They are
(22:18):
I'm not a card person, so I'm not even gonna
take credit for that, but you and Lamy are very
nuch about sending cards in the mail, text messages, gifts
here and there. You know, sometimes something will pop up
in the mail and I'm like, where does T shirt
come from? I hadn't even thinking about you, Like, or
oh my god, we mentioned this T shirt, but now
I got one to wear.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I will add to that. I think after undergrad we
came together most times on homecoming. So Lamiya is a
native of Winston Salem, where we went to school at
Wake Forest, and so when she graduated, she and I
didn't move too too far from school. So when we
came back for homecomings, we would always stay. We would
(22:59):
call it the Williams Retreat.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
We'd stay at the Williams.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Where do we call it the Williams, not the retreat
in the State, the Williams of estate. Yeah, we're going
to the Williams of State. We're going to hang out
there so we can really all be together. And then
you know, other folks that came in town for homecoming
would join us there. And then I think when Maya
moved away from Winston is when we were like, Okay,
well now we've got to really get ourselves together because
(23:25):
there's no kind of set event that we all know
that we want to attend. And so once she moved away,
we were still very intentional about, like you said, not
having a year ago, by having retreats and getting together.
And I think the other thing that happens is just
by happenstance. When i have to travel up to the
DC area, I'm pretty close to Ketas, I'm like, hey,
coming up for a meeting. You know you got time
(23:46):
this weekend?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Or I'll stay over an extra day just to see
her and the girls. So I think that's how we
physically have made sure we got together.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
More from our conversation after the break. So many of
the spaces we inhabit require us to put on armor,
and that can take its toll on us mentally, emotionally,
and physically. If you watch the Supreme Court nomination hearings
(24:18):
for Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, It was clear that she
too had to wrestle with herself before sitting before a
group of people who obviously were trying to catch her slipping.
The way we often have to steel ourselves in order
to be sure footed in the face of criticism, and
often flat out disrespect is way too common. After adorning
(24:40):
ourselves in armor to face the world. What a respite
it is to figuratively take off your brawl in a
safe space with your girls, with one another. There is
no need for hardness page twenty two.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
We call it mountain up. And I think for me,
the first thing that comes to mind our work lives,
and how a lot of times, particularly for me, I
need to vent and I need to send an email
before I actually send an email. And so in the
world of just managing workplace conflict, being a black woman
in the workplace and dealing with microaggressions and not being
(25:20):
valued and being questioned about your expertise and things of
that nature, we have to be mindful that our responses
are on and everlasting, and so I know we lean
on each other a lot in the world of taking
our earrings off and using our words right and getting
the power of the email or the pen together. I
would speak to that in general and just say we're
(25:42):
always there to help each other through those very difficult times.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
We all appreciate how different each one of us are.
I think we value that. I know what to expect
from Akida, I know what to expect from the Math.
They know what to expect from me. And I don't
think that we judge each other for that. I think
we lean on each other for our strings. We laugh,
(26:06):
and we tell each other about what our weaknesses are,
not even our weaknesses, but our traits or characteristics that
can pose challenges in certain situations. We do serve as
a bounce, like as a mirror, as a sounding board
for each other to check ourselves and to see when
we're operating in this world where sometimes we are faced
(26:28):
with challenges, do we need to lean on somebody else's
strengths so that they can help us channel our communications
or tell us to you know, simmer down, take a seat,
let it go. And I think that's how our group
has dealt with conflict is leaning on each other's strings
and then you know, hyping each other up when we're
like they say hell yeah, like you're right, that was
a mess, you shouldn't have to deal with that, you
(26:50):
should respond in writing. I think that's how we deal
with conflict and use our friendship to help us individually
and collectively.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
In my experience working with black women in groups, sisters
tend to fall into one of four roles, the leader,
the wallflower, the firecracker, and the peacemaker. These roles are
not at all standing are absolute. We actually may find
ourselves moving in and out of different roles depending on
the setting our situation, but they do give us some
(27:20):
information about how we show up in communal spaces. Here's
a little more about each role. The leader is the
one who offers organization to the group. She is typically
the one making sure y'all are getting together regularly, and
she's the one who probably organized the last get together.
The wallflower is the sister within the group who generally
sits quietly and listens as others talk. However, when she
(27:44):
does speak, it's super impactful. She is often paying more
attention to what's not being said than what is. The
firecracker is the sister who will say the thing that
needs to be said, but not always gently. They, along
with the leader, tend to take up most of the
space in the group. She's likely the life of the party,
(28:04):
but if the party goes off the rails, she's probably
the one involved in that too. The peacemaker is the
sister who will send the text message that says we
need to talk. If two other sisters in the group
are having a conflict, she's likely to have individual calls
with both of them and encourage them to hash out
their issues. Page eighty four.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
So I'll start.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I got the Wallflower, which I think is partially accurate.
Like I feel like absolutely like in the way in
the EXCEL group, I probably would have been Savannah. But
I speak up when I need to. It's just that
I don't always feel the need to speak up, you
know what I mean. I fore got to say what
I need to say. I need to say it, but
I don't necessarily feel the need to be the one
making all the statements. But I do think that I
(28:47):
tend to be more passive. I think they would agree,
but I just kind of lay low until I need
to lay low.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
I just say that, go Kita. I knew you were
gonna make me go.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
I agree, and I did take to heart that there's
a spectrum to the quiz and to the findings. I
got the leader. The part of it that resonated most
with me were the things that I know I need
help on in my friendship, being seen as the strong one,
or letting my friends check in on me, or letting
them in more like not obviously they're in, they're all
the way in, but if there's something I'm going through,
(29:15):
I'll tend to just back off a little bit, be
a little quiet, and I need to always remember and
I know, but you know, it's just the type to
pull in before I push back out or share what's
going on. So I would say all the things that
I need to remember as a leader resonated the most.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I got leader as well. And I think it's because
I'm always like, come on, y'all, let's do it, let's
get on here. If we're not on Marco, I'm always
popping on there, like get out here, what y'all doing?
What's going on? So that's the part I think for
the leader that resonated most with me. I think that's
why I got the leader. And I think it's more
so just like the cheerleader, like let's get together, let's
(29:51):
do some some things. Let's go buy these outfits. Let's
go put probably I probably say, let's put this eyeliner on,
like I don't know, I hope like light and levity
and keeping us in a space we can have some.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Fun more from our conversation after the break. So not
only is forming strong connections with others physical, mental, and
emotional bonds that can withstand time and change valuable to
(30:22):
many areas of our lives, but it is also integral
to our development as humans and connected to our very survival.
For Black women, this is especially true. It is why
I believe that the best way for black women to
thrive is through our healthy relationships with other black women.
Page eight.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It's say one of the biggest changes that, of course
have occurred in both of their lives is their parents
and so seeing how they raise kids. You know, that's
been fun to watch and be a part of. But
I think Maya, you had kids first, and I think
you were full fledged motherhood, and then it was a
shift back to like self and the dreams that you
(31:02):
always knew that you wanted to have for yourself, And
that's been beautiful, beautiful, beautiful to watch and to see
your talent life as an author and you're working on
your PhD. Like that's been incredibly fun to watch and encouraging.
And then with Keita, I think the same thing, just
raising these two beautiful, wonderful girls with challenges face. But
(31:22):
also I think the biggest thing that resonates with me
about Keda is professionally, Like I remember lots of discussions
about the move from home a safe space with mom
and with family to taking a big leap and moving
to Maryland in DC and kind of taking a step
that you really wanted to take, but knowing there was
so many things that had to be considered and houses
(31:45):
to be sold, family members to think about, and just
the level of kind of thought and planning and maturity,
like it reminds me. It tells me like when do
you think things through, take time to be deliberate about
certain certain things that you want to do in your life.
So I think those have been kind of phases in
(32:05):
life where I've really watched my friends and been amazed
at how they have mastered these life phases. But I
think at their core they've remained the same, And I
think that's why our friendship has remained. Of course grown
and matured, but we stayed so connected. I feel like
sometimes when you're disconnected and you come back, you see this,
you may see this big change. But for us, I
(32:27):
feel like it's been a growth that we've experienced together
over time.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I'm kind of the same way. I don't see like
a big core shift in the KILLI or Akita in
terms of their personality. Kelley was a boss in ninety seven.
She's a boss today in terms of just having her
stuff together, knowing what she wants and going after Keita.
I've always been impressed by her strength. And I know we,
(32:53):
of course are tired of the strong black woman trope,
but Keita has gone through so much and has withstood
and it's still going. And I look at her and
I'm marvel because some of the decisions that she's had
to make would call somebody else to crumble, and she doesn't.
And she has these beautiful girls who are killing the game.
And I just, you know, I'm just in all. And
Keta also taught me way back when it's so random
(33:15):
that I remember this date, but in nineteen ninety eight,
she told me that friends serve different purposes and I
so needed to hear that, and it just shifted how
I thought about friendships. And I had the best friend
from high school and I wanted to be like, well,
I can't have other friends because I have this best friend.
And it just it was just like she was always
so much more together. She was always so much more
(33:37):
focused and mature, and she's still that way. Again, I
was terrified to move away from Winston Salem. Keta was like,
I've been all around the world. I mean, she's been everywhere.
She moved to Texas. So I've always admired about her.
And again, I think with Keeley, I'm just like fangirling.
But with Keeley I have always admired. Again, I think
in large part because of the family that she comes from,
(33:58):
just the confidence. Both of them are really confident women
that I feel like didn't have to cultivate confidence, whereas
I had to cultivate confidence because I was taught to
be humble, I was taught to be you know, all
sorts of things right. And I just admire those qualities
in them, and I think they helped show me a
different way of being. And it started way back then
(34:19):
and it still goes to now. I'm still in all
both of them.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
What I'd like to contribute to this. And what I'm
hearing is I feel like I am now looking at
how you all have the lack of a better word
imprinted on me. Right, So you know in the way
of how I am I changing because of their friendship
and their love and their being there. And we talk
about strength, but strength in times of where we need
that confidence and lame you hit the nail on the head.
(34:46):
What would my inner Kelly say? Right? And my killy voice?
We do our killy voice sometimes and it's like, no,
I'm not standing for that, or you know, with a
full Paul's period at the end, and what we're going
to do next, right, and just being resolute in an
opinion and standing true to it no matter what. We
have these things called kj's Keeley justified and anything goes
(35:10):
if you put a kJ behind it, right, And so
I take that with me every day and when I
needed the most, La Maya loves love, and La Maya
is La Maya loves all things. Some things you want
to have can may be loved. But I need that
in my life. Right. There's a lot of softening that
I think has happened for me over the years from
(35:32):
the both of them to be quite honest with you,
and just different perspective of key. You can't go in
there with that perspective where you can't go in there
carrying yourself in that way, or sometimes you do kind
of open up the people, right. You can't just stay
with us, And so I really do get different perspectives
from both of them that have just making me a
better person every day. Every time we grow, I'm growing
with them and they're stretching me and growing me. So
(35:54):
thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
There is no one size fits all model for how
to be a good sister, but I do think there
are some things that we can do to start hype
your sister friends up. You know how we do yes,
hair girl, you look amazing. Black women have this on lock.
It's our superpower. Compliments are known to uplift the giver
(36:16):
and the receiver. Practice giving verbal compliments daily to your sisters,
and don't forget about our little sisters. Page two fourteen.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Has already given us one for Maya. It is positive
she gets the positivity of war for ams of your friendships.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Because to the.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Point where we have said, if Lea, Maya gives you
a compliment, it's nice, it's sweet. But I'm gonna wait
on that because she may compliment you on song that's
not quite a cute Lamna you will, o man, you will.
But she's always looking for the post's. She will always
give you the positive and find the positive, and she
(37:02):
is a lover of love. Keita. I want to give
her the Planned and Precise Award, Like I'm out here, like,
let's do it, Let's do it. He's like, what's the time,
what are the dates? Did you get the tickets? Do
you have your stuff together? And I'm like, oh, well no,
but we're going. We're going. So she gets our Planning
Precise Award, and may it gets our Positivity Award, and
(37:25):
we need all of that medium.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
I have to give you the most likely to justify
whatever it is she wants, whatever it is, because there's
always a way, and I don't think there's anything wrong
with that. She is again has taught me there is
always a way to make a decision. And if you
make a decision and it ends up being not the
outcome you want it, guess what, Kelly, gonna justify another
(37:49):
pathway and it's gonna be fine. So I'll give you
the kJ Award.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
The most Powerful and long lasting sister friendships are the
ones that allow us to feel safe. We've been sharing
our hearts and stories in many ways. We've been doing
this all along. Introduction, page eighteen.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I would say, and this is specifically for black women.
Value your black sisters, value them, see them, show up
for them, but most importantly value them.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I'll say, make time and make space. And I guess
that's two. You want me to give you a justification
for two. But I would say, make space for people
in your life and for who they really are. I
think that's what creates a friendship. You be a safe
space for someone else. And and make time, like take
time like it's a priority for us to see each other,
(38:41):
Like eventually, we don't need to see each other every day,
every week, every quarter. It's important for us to have
the space and the time to pour into each other
every now and then in person. And so I think
those are important things if you want to have a
long lasting.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Friendship, I would say being vulnerable and being honest with
yourself about your vulnerabilities and knowing what you need and
knowing that you can't and you shouldn't right when you
find your people and when you find someone that fulfills
you in whatever kind of way that you're learning from,
you're growing with, you're not stagnant around, then open up
to them. And Tequila's point, leave that space and dedicate
(39:16):
that time to being nurtured, but just also putting yourself
out there to connect with people. Right. I certainly don't
know if I would have been friends with somebody I
thought was going to be a gang member, But there
was something in Killy that said, no matter what, this
gang member needs love. Yes, but I mean just again
being open and being willing to just or into and
(39:37):
to be poured into.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Black women are big dreamers, and the beauty of our
dreams is that they are so expansive that they are
not only about how our individual lives might be different,
but about how the world might be different. Page fifty six.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Oh, I got this one. So we've already talked about
somehow we are going to build a lunai that's gonna
intersect all of our homes will be connected, and we
will meet on the luni. Like the Golden Girls don't
happen one day. I don't know what state we're gonna
be in, says She's never leaving Atlanta. Georgia's way. It
might have to be there, but that's what we're gonna have. Yep,
(40:17):
that's right, not to days, that's not today's on the Lemni.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
But before we hit the Lani, we're gonna take these trips,
a big trip uninterrupted where we can just kick it
and chill and relax. I'm gonna have my permanent residence
in Atlanta, but I do think our Lani can be
at Batsack.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes, yes, agreed.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I want to thank Lemea, Akita and Keeley once again
for joining us for this episode. Don't forget to grab
your copy of Sisterhood Heels at Sisterhoodheels dot com to
explore more themes like the ones we discussed today, and
be sure to text two of your girls right now
and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're
looking for a therapist in your area, check out our
(41:03):
therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
And if you want to continue digging into this topic
or just be in community with other sisters, come on
over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our
cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women.
You can join us at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis,
(41:26):
and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care. Which friend are you and your sister circle?
Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader?
(41:50):
Take the quiz at Sisterhoodhels dot com slash quiz to
find out, and then make sure to grab your copy
of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you
can be a better friend and how your circle can
do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today
at sisterhood Heels dot com.
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three twenty two of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you?
And your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker,
the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels
dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make
(01:20):
sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find
out more about how you can be a better friend
and how your circle can do a better job of
supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhood Heels dot com.
How many of us can say that we have a
friendship that is five years old, ten years old, or
(01:43):
even fifteen years old. If you thought that was rare,
how about being friends for most of your lives. Lifelong
sisterhood is a rare yet beautiful phenomenon that brings new
meaning to the term ride or Die. For today's session,
we're joined by lifelong besties of twenty six years le Maya,
(02:05):
Akita and Keihley, dubbing themselves AMW for America's Most Wanted.
This girl group has navigated moves around the country, the
raising of children, and busy careers, all while still making
time for sisterhood. In our session today, you'll hear the
AMW crew talk all about their growth as a friend
(02:26):
group from college to adulthood, ways to stay connected when
your besties live far apart, and how they've managed to
maintain their sisterhood in the midst of personal life developments.
And as a special bonus, the interludes for today's episodes
are selected excerpts from my book, Sisterhood Heels, which is
available to purchase wherever books are sold. If something resonates
(02:49):
with you while enjoying our conversation, Please share with us
on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or
join us over in the Sister Circle. To talk more
about the episode. You can join us at community dot
therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi, I'm Maya, and I'm here to introduce my posse,
a trio called amw Who are we? A gang member,
a soccer player, and a Southern bell. We met in
nineteen ninety seven at wake Forest University. Actually only one
of these descriptions is accurate. Keeley the Southern bell who
wore a sweatshirt that read Southern Girls Don't Sweat. We listen.
Assumed that Keita, with her lean, athletic build and muscular legs,
(03:36):
must be on scholarship as a soccer player, and that
may and me was a gang member from the notorious
Tray four because I wore a red bandana. First impressions aside,
we fostered a decades long friendship that has helped us
navigate some of the most wonderful and difficult times of
our lives. Meet Keighley, an attorney and our resident fashion
e Stemp Kita, an EEO diversity expert and our resident
(03:57):
voice of reason. And me, Maya, a PhD student and
teacher and our resident dreamer. Our journey includes cartwheels and
espresso shots on the quad annual Wonderful Weekends, moves all
over the country, overseas and back, miscarriage and pregnancies, marriage
and dating, and more recently, cancer diagnoses in the loss
of parents. We're all busy these days with working school, family, yoga, teaching,
(04:19):
raising kids and young adults, and of course commiserating on
all the bullsh constantly thrown in Black women. We get tired,
but we keep going, squeezing every drop out of life.
We are America's most wanted a moniker given to us
in nineteen ninety eight by the unfortunate girlfriend of a
first class boy. But we can tell you more about
that later.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I know Drake made it popular to proclaim no new friends,
but I have to strongly disagree with this sentiment. Being
open to new sister friends at any stage of our
lives should be a goal we all aim for. The
truth is you probably haven't met all the people who
will love you, and being open to finding new people
(04:57):
who can add to the rich relationships you might already
as a kind and loving act Towards your Own Healing,
Page one ninety one.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Well, we're all friends from wake Forest University and we're
on the freshman hall together. And wake Forest is a
primarily white institution, so when you have three black women
on the same freshman hall, it is easy to identify.
And so when I saw two women on my hall
that looked like me, I was like, oh, okay, well
who do we have here? And so le Maya dressed
(05:28):
in preparation I guess to do some heavy lifting, had
on a bandana. I think you had on like a
baggy outfit, maybe like some baggy jeans or shorts or something.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I was like, okay, I'm right because we're moving in too,
a dor mega and so I was.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Like, she is got some street cred. And then Akita,
she looked very instill. It was very athletic. She was
long a lean, had on like I think they were
soccer shorts. There's some type of athletic shorts. So I
was like, well, huh, is she like on a soccer team?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
One?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I had picked her to be an athlete, and
so I am.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
The Southern bell.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So those were my initial impressions on the two ladies
on the call now that are now to my best friend.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Amw. We will not incriminate those that gave us that moniker,
but we have taken it and it has lived with
us and it has developed. But we were once greeted
on the quad on our way to the cafeteria by
someone that said, oh my gosh, it's America's most wanted.
Because we had solidified our status on campus by this point,
we did not know we were America's most wanted. But
we'll take it. As all of our beautiful black women
(06:36):
are America's most wanted, we will take that for the sisterhood.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
My sister friend, Defisa and I had many conversations while
in grad school at the University of Georgia about how
it was fun to date and think about married life,
but that it was our relationship with one another where
sweetness was really found. The conversations we were able to
have with one another, the support, laughter, and ease, all
felt like what life partnership should really be. I've been
(07:04):
so excited to see more people thinking about their relationships
with their girls in this way. For all the wonderful
things that can come with romantic love, our relationships with
our girls are often where we really come alive in
many ways. Our girls are where we can exist outside
of any life role we're expected to take on. Yes,
I am someone's wife, I am someone's mother, I am
(07:28):
someone's therapist. But when I'm with my girls, I'm just
with my girls as they are with me. Introduction page nineteen.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Oh my gosh, so many really good memories. I'm going
to talk about cartwheels on the quad. So there was
lots of work to be done at WAKE, and I
don't know was it final exam period or some period
of time where we all were just like up, like
(07:58):
working NonStop, and there was the Starbucks on campus. So
we said, we're going to go to Starbucks and we
are going to take I don't know how many shots
of I was about to say tequila, but not tequila.
That was creater.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
That was late night.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
This was espresso. We had taken all these shots of
espresso because we were like, we're gonna be up, We're
gonna get this work done. And then we were so
wired none of us could sit down at our desk
to do any work. So we go out to the
quad and we're just like, I don't know, who knows
what we're doing but at a certain point we were
doing cartwheels on the quad in the middle of campus
(08:34):
when we're supposed to all be in our respective door
rooms or the library doing all this work. That we
took the shots expresso for it. So it's just so
many of those hysterical memories that we look back on
year after year and just giggle again, like it was
that day.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I want to talk about the trash can Wars because
we literally just had this reminder a couple of months
ago with one of my daughters who had a similar event.
But we used to have this annual thing on campus,
and I don't even know where it started, but it
was annual. It was a water gun fight. So we
started with water gun fights. We would surprise each other,
not just the three of us, like pretty much it
(09:11):
was all I want to say, It was all black
people on campus. It was an unspoken organized event where
we just knew we had to carry our water guns
or we need to be prepared to get got before class.
So somehow that war for us escalated with a core
group of guy friends who one of us is married
to today, La Maid and her husband, he and his roommate,
(09:32):
and somehow it escalated to trash can wars, and so
this is how you know you were like comfortable and
you were with your people because you do stupid stuff
like this. I don't think we can get in trouble
for this now, but we would take trash cans and
line them up against the boy's door, and so when
(09:53):
they opened the door, the whole trash can just flooded
into their dorm room. Do not ask us where the
brainch out for this operation came from, But don't worry.
They got us back. But we just found joy in
being free and silly and goofy and just connecting with
our community in very crazy ways on campus. But we
had a good chuckle about trash can wars recently, so
(10:14):
I thought I shared that one.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, that one is one of the ones that we
still talk about today. Because my husband was like, I
couldn't believe that y'all puts spoiled milk under our door.
So my husband and his roommate, they stayed in the
dorm across from us, and we poured like I don't
know where we got rotten milk from, but we can, yeah, yeah,
and we poured it under there like we opened up
(10:36):
the cart and I poured it under there. Okay, we
were just ridiculous. Another memory that I think of that
just always makes me smile is the night we decided,
(10:58):
but we're not just gonna go to then, we're gonna
go to the Hands fully decked out like we're going
I don't even know where we thought we were going
and who Hands was a restaurant, I'm not sure it's
still in existence. But we got on like all black.
One of us had on a crop top, I can't
remember who we had on like leather. We did our
makeup like we had real special eyebrows that we had
(11:20):
drawn on. I think I had a mold that I
put out like it was so much and we were
just like, yeah, this were we getting ready to do.
So we just dressed up and you know, all this
real special attire and went out to eat and like
that was our Saturday night and we just had so
much fun doing.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And again, not sure which one of us was like, hey,
let's go do this, but we were all down. We
were like, yes, we get.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Ready to do this.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We're all gonna do this, and we're all gonna have
fun and we're just gonna go out in these streets
in Winston looking like this.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Healing can come in surprising ways. It doesn't always have
to look like heartfelt, teary, I deeper than deep conversations,
although it's okay if it does. What about the year
you and you girls headed out of town for a
long weekend and had the time of your lives. You
remember how refreshed and re energized you felt when you
(12:08):
got back home, I mean, once you finally slept. Y'all
still talk about it to this day, don't you. That
wasn't just a turn up or a really good time.
That was healing. Throughout the course of our lives, this
pattern of being there for one another repeats itself over
and over again. As we heal our sisters, they heal
(12:30):
us Introduction, page twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
One of the things I think about post college is
the times that we get together. They're really special because
of course we're living in three different parts of the
country and it's been like that for a while. But
the times that we're able to come together, they're just
they're magic. And I remember using a Kita in Texas
(13:02):
when she lived there for her baby shower, and I
remember the look on her face because she truly was.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
She was surprised.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
She didn't know we were going to be there. And
I'm sure they have a similar story about my fortieth birthday.
But those moments, and it's just like, these are my people,
these are my sisters, you know, and I just I'm
just so thankful that we have that. But we make
it happen even though it's, you know, tough, and everybody
has schedules, and we always show up for each other
and we need to.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I agree, and I guess may and you brought up
your birthday, which is definitely one of the highlights, so
we hit. I don't know where we come up with
these ideas. I mean, granted, fortieth birthdays are a milestone
for most, but for us, we decided we're getting together
on each other's fortieth birthday. Did we decide that as
a group or Akita? Did you and I decided because
what we did was we surprised Lemaya. So we've lived
(13:49):
in separate states, like Lemya said, for a long time,
and each of us, in our different lives, have different
opportunities to get together with other girlfriends, and I think
some of us don't have as many opportunities the other
because of kids and just where they are physically and
where they are in life. But we said, for La
Maaya's birthday, we are getting her out. We're going to
(14:09):
do something fun. And we also always call every time
we get together a reunion, so we said, we're going
to have this reunion. So we concocted this entire plan,
and we showed up at le Maaya's door on her
birthday weekend fortieth birthday, rung the doorbell, and of course
her husband was involved in the plan because we needed
her to be in place at the right time, and
we snuck her away to have a weekend of fun,
(14:31):
which ended up only being what a day and a
half due to snow, and we went to Ashville and
had a great girl's weekend, just like hanging out, doing
nothing in particular, but just having a chance to be
together and reconnect, which I agree has been so fruitful
for me, so rejuvenating to kind of get together with
your real good girlfriends, your good good girlfriends, and just remember, reflect,
(14:54):
trip out, figure out what's new, what's challenging us today,
and to kind of encourage this.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
For each other and celebrate each other. I agree, and
I think it's important to note. We communicate daily and
we do so through an app called Marco Polo. But
when we have these retreats, of these reunions, we still
have so much to talk about. And so that's just again,
it's just like a reiteration of these are my people
and they give me life. And you know, we've talked
(15:19):
about wonderful moments getting together, and we've had some tough
times too, We've had some significant loss And Toequila's point,
there's not an event, there's not a moment. When I
lost my mom about three years ago, they were right there.
They were right there and it wasn't a question of
when or if or how. And for them, I am
(15:40):
always forever grateful because it never is a question of
winter for how, they will always be there and I
know they will.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Be Longevity within a sister circle is often a blessing,
and it also means that you've likely experienced some significant
life stuff together as well. Research indicates that having a
strong support system is a significant factor in being able
(16:05):
to rebound following a life stressor To ensure that our
systems stay intact, it is important to know how to
support each other through difficult experiences. Page one.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Having lost my mom, just even just difficult decisions that
we've gone through in life and had to make. And
I'm raising two children as a single mother, and you know,
I need my village and they are absolutely the city
hall of my village. Right, But the form of support
doesn't always have to be physical. The form of support,
(16:38):
you know, is certainly through the phone. It's certainly a
phone call. I am probably the last one on the
screen to answer my phone. I'll acknowledge that. But when
I see the missed phone calls and when I see
the text messages, I know that they're there. I know
that they're thinking. I'll get random cards in the mail right,
and it's just the acknowledgment that, hey, you're going through something,
(16:59):
so okay to be stressed out, it's okay to be tired.
Just know that I'm here, And just to even pull
a card like that from the mailbox and know that
Lemey was thinking about something I probably hadn't even talked
to them about, right, Keeli will send me a quick
note on the side and just say, you know, Keita,
I know you're not going to respond. I know you aren't,
but you know, just know that I'm here. And that's
(17:19):
to your point. Twenty six years of that, a lot
of people don't have that in their families, they don't
have it in their lives, and so we are incredibly
blessed and we realize that. So just being and showing
up in any kind of way possible is what I
can say we've done for each other.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I agree. And I feel like the other thing is
you feel fully invested, Like these aren't just my friends.
I'm so invested in how they're doing, how their children
are doing, their children's accomplishments, their children's stumbles, like all
of it just feels like, oh gosh, we are going
through this now, we need to get it together. Now,
we need to figure this out. Now, we need to
(17:55):
celebrate this. And so there's a lot of joy in that.
And like you said, when you come to the those
times where it's challenging or where you're dealing with a
true loss or sadness, you know that it's also a
safe space to come and share that, or even when
you're just upset and you want to vent. Because parenting, marriage,
like all that stuff, being a member of a family,
(18:16):
like all of that comes with challenges and you need
to be able to come to a place and be like,
you know what, today I am upset about this and
everybody's like yep, yep, yep, or they're like, now, you know,
you need to calm down a little bit, but we
understand how you feel. So just being able to have
a safe space for that, I think is so healthy.
And again, I just feel so invest it, so it
doesn't ever feel like it's an effort, like it's like, Okay,
(18:38):
we got to make this work because we need to
be there for this. We need to be there because
the babies are graduating, we need to be there because
someone has passed. It's what we do not you know,
they expect us to come, so we need to be there.
It's no, we need to be present. We want to
be present. And I'll just.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Echo that with the whole concept of the safe space,
like we're one hundred percent there for each other. But
there is something about having the space to come in
and say what we need to say and not be
judged or like ke they said say well come on now,
else so you're doing too much or maybe you should
feel this way. It is so for me, it's extremely
like it's vital. There are times I'm like, you know,
(19:13):
we haven't been on Marco Polo in a while, like
what's going on? Like I need to know what's going on,
what's going on in right his life. And then there
are times when I'm so stressed or I'm so down,
or I'm so frustrated about something and I need to
just talk to them and say, like, this is what's
going on with me, and to have them we say,
just give us a hell yeah, just a hell yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's enough sometimes to be like Okay, I got it,
I can move on. It's so important because I feel like,
especially for me, I'm here in Virginia. We moved here
a couple of years ago, and I don't have a
strong network of friends here or anything, you know, like
to hang out with. And when I first came initially,
I mean I had nobody, and so to be able
to talk to my girls like I've always have made
that transition.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Too much easier for me.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Even though physically they're not always with me, I'm not alone.
I always have them if I need to, and if again,
if something really was stressful, I could call either of
them and they would make it happened. They would come,
they would do whatever they need to do just to
make sure that I was okay. And I want to
say this too, my father passed this year and I
wasn't even ready to be around people.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I was managing and grieving and trying to get things
together and saying busy, and they were like, nope, we're
getting together. What we can works for you when we
getting together? Like where are we going? And it was
just like, no, we're not going to let you kind
of power through this without like taking a moment. And
I appreciate that even though I wasn't. I wasn't fully ready,
they were just like, oh, we're getting together, Come on,
where we're going? You know that type of thing. So
it's just that knowing that they're going to always be there,
(20:33):
that knowing that they're always riding with me, supporting me,
all that stuff. It's incredible and it shows how much
we have grown in this friendship since the late nineties.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
How might your circle look and feel different with everyone
showing a similar level of commitment to showing up. I
get it. Schedules get hectic, we are often busy being takers,
and life otherwise continues to life in those instances. The
first thing we tend to drop is time with our girls.
But if our sister circles are the lifelines we often
(21:11):
know them to be, it is important to treat them
as such. While weekly get together as may not be possible,
I want you in your circles to think about what
is possible. How active is the group chat? Are you
marking important dates on your calendar so that you're less
likely to forget someone's important event? What plans are you
all making to get together soon? And how are you
(21:32):
planning to protect that time Page forty five.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
So we don't let a year go by without seeing
each other. That's something I think is unspoken, but it
is absolutely a dedicated thing. Like we call those reunions retreats,
we'll pick somewhere. We've been mostly eastside for quite a bit.
I believe we're supposed to be having the Arizona at some
point by way of like what, I don't know. There's
(21:58):
a couple of islands we're supposed to be making, But
at the end of the day, we picked places to
go to. I want to say the last time we
got together it was aside from being here with me,
we were in Virginia, Lansdowne so we were picking a
resort because we realized we weren't going to make it
to the Salamander. But we do that. We're intentional about that.
We're intentional about sending cards in the mail. They are
(22:18):
I'm not a card person, so I'm not even gonna
take credit for that, but you and Lamy are very
nuch about sending cards in the mail, text messages, gifts
here and there. You know, sometimes something will pop up
in the mail and I'm like, where does T shirt
come from? I hadn't even thinking about you, Like, or
oh my god, we mentioned this T shirt, but now
I got one to wear.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I will add to that. I think after undergrad we
came together most times on homecoming. So Lamiya is a
native of Winston Salem, where we went to school at
Wake Forest, and so when she graduated, she and I
didn't move too too far from school. So when we
came back for homecomings, we would always stay. We would
(22:59):
call it the Williams Retreat.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
We'd stay at the Williams.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Where do we call it the Williams, not the retreat
in the State, the Williams of estate. Yeah, we're going
to the Williams of State. We're going to hang out
there so we can really all be together. And then
you know, other folks that came in town for homecoming
would join us there. And then I think when Maya
moved away from Winston is when we were like, Okay,
well now we've got to really get ourselves together because
(23:25):
there's no kind of set event that we all know
that we want to attend. And so once she moved away,
we were still very intentional about, like you said, not
having a year ago, by having retreats and getting together.
And I think the other thing that happens is just
by happenstance. When i have to travel up to the
DC area, I'm pretty close to Ketas, I'm like, hey,
coming up for a meeting. You know you got time
(23:46):
this weekend?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Or I'll stay over an extra day just to see
her and the girls. So I think that's how we
physically have made sure we got together.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
More from our conversation after the break. So many of
the spaces we inhabit require us to put on armor,
and that can take its toll on us mentally, emotionally,
and physically. If you watch the Supreme Court nomination hearings
(24:18):
for Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, It was clear that she
too had to wrestle with herself before sitting before a
group of people who obviously were trying to catch her slipping.
The way we often have to steel ourselves in order
to be sure footed in the face of criticism, and
often flat out disrespect is way too common. After adorning
(24:40):
ourselves in armor to face the world. What a respite
it is to figuratively take off your brawl in a
safe space with your girls, with one another. There is
no need for hardness page twenty two.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
We call it mountain up. And I think for me,
the first thing that comes to mind our work lives,
and how a lot of times, particularly for me, I
need to vent and I need to send an email
before I actually send an email. And so in the
world of just managing workplace conflict, being a black woman
in the workplace and dealing with microaggressions and not being
(25:20):
valued and being questioned about your expertise and things of
that nature, we have to be mindful that our responses
are on and everlasting, and so I know we lean
on each other a lot in the world of taking
our earrings off and using our words right and getting
the power of the email or the pen together. I
would speak to that in general and just say we're
(25:42):
always there to help each other through those very difficult times.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
We all appreciate how different each one of us are.
I think we value that. I know what to expect
from Akida, I know what to expect from the Math.
They know what to expect from me. And I don't
think that we judge each other for that. I think
we lean on each other for our strings. We laugh,
(26:06):
and we tell each other about what our weaknesses are,
not even our weaknesses, but our traits or characteristics that
can pose challenges in certain situations. We do serve as
a bounce, like as a mirror, as a sounding board
for each other to check ourselves and to see when
we're operating in this world where sometimes we are faced
(26:28):
with challenges, do we need to lean on somebody else's
strengths so that they can help us channel our communications
or tell us to you know, simmer down, take a seat,
let it go. And I think that's how our group
has dealt with conflict is leaning on each other's strings
and then you know, hyping each other up when we're
like they say hell yeah, like you're right, that was
a mess, you shouldn't have to deal with that, you
(26:50):
should respond in writing. I think that's how we deal
with conflict and use our friendship to help us individually
and collectively.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
In my experience working with black women in groups, sisters
tend to fall into one of four roles, the leader,
the wallflower, the firecracker, and the peacemaker. These roles are
not at all standing are absolute. We actually may find
ourselves moving in and out of different roles depending on
the setting our situation, but they do give us some
(27:20):
information about how we show up in communal spaces. Here's
a little more about each role. The leader is the
one who offers organization to the group. She is typically
the one making sure y'all are getting together regularly, and
she's the one who probably organized the last get together.
The wallflower is the sister within the group who generally
sits quietly and listens as others talk. However, when she
(27:44):
does speak, it's super impactful. She is often paying more
attention to what's not being said than what is. The
firecracker is the sister who will say the thing that
needs to be said, but not always gently. They, along
with the leader, tend to take up most of the
space in the group. She's likely the life of the party,
(28:04):
but if the party goes off the rails, she's probably
the one involved in that too. The peacemaker is the
sister who will send the text message that says we
need to talk. If two other sisters in the group
are having a conflict, she's likely to have individual calls
with both of them and encourage them to hash out
their issues. Page eighty four.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
So I'll start.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I got the Wallflower, which I think is partially accurate.
Like I feel like absolutely like in the way in
the EXCEL group, I probably would have been Savannah. But
I speak up when I need to. It's just that
I don't always feel the need to speak up, you
know what I mean. I fore got to say what
I need to say. I need to say it, but
I don't necessarily feel the need to be the one
making all the statements. But I do think that I
(28:47):
tend to be more passive. I think they would agree,
but I just kind of lay low until I need
to lay low.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
I just say that, go Kita. I knew you were
gonna make me go.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
I agree, and I did take to heart that there's
a spectrum to the quiz and to the findings. I
got the leader. The part of it that resonated most
with me were the things that I know I need
help on in my friendship, being seen as the strong one,
or letting my friends check in on me, or letting
them in more like not obviously they're in, they're all
the way in, but if there's something I'm going through,
(29:15):
I'll tend to just back off a little bit, be
a little quiet, and I need to always remember and
I know, but you know, it's just the type to
pull in before I push back out or share what's
going on. So I would say all the things that
I need to remember as a leader resonated the most.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I got leader as well. And I think it's because
I'm always like, come on, y'all, let's do it, let's
get on here. If we're not on Marco, I'm always
popping on there, like get out here, what y'all doing?
What's going on? So that's the part I think for
the leader that resonated most with me. I think that's
why I got the leader. And I think it's more
so just like the cheerleader, like let's get together, let's
(29:51):
do some some things. Let's go buy these outfits. Let's
go put probably I probably say, let's put this eyeliner on,
like I don't know, I hope like light and levity
and keeping us in a space we can have some.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Fun more from our conversation after the break. So not
only is forming strong connections with others physical, mental, and
emotional bonds that can withstand time and change valuable to
(30:22):
many areas of our lives, but it is also integral
to our development as humans and connected to our very survival.
For Black women, this is especially true. It is why
I believe that the best way for black women to
thrive is through our healthy relationships with other black women.
Page eight.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It's say one of the biggest changes that, of course
have occurred in both of their lives is their parents
and so seeing how they raise kids. You know, that's
been fun to watch and be a part of. But
I think Maya, you had kids first, and I think
you were full fledged motherhood, and then it was a
shift back to like self and the dreams that you
(31:02):
always knew that you wanted to have for yourself, And
that's been beautiful, beautiful, beautiful to watch and to see
your talent life as an author and you're working on
your PhD. Like that's been incredibly fun to watch and encouraging.
And then with Keita, I think the same thing, just
raising these two beautiful, wonderful girls with challenges face. But
(31:22):
also I think the biggest thing that resonates with me
about Keda is professionally, Like I remember lots of discussions
about the move from home a safe space with mom
and with family to taking a big leap and moving
to Maryland in DC and kind of taking a step
that you really wanted to take, but knowing there was
so many things that had to be considered and houses
(31:45):
to be sold, family members to think about, and just
the level of kind of thought and planning and maturity,
like it reminds me. It tells me like when do
you think things through, take time to be deliberate about
certain certain things that you want to do in your life.
So I think those have been kind of phases in
(32:05):
life where I've really watched my friends and been amazed
at how they have mastered these life phases. But I
think at their core they've remained the same, And I
think that's why our friendship has remained. Of course grown
and matured, but we stayed so connected. I feel like
sometimes when you're disconnected and you come back, you see this,
you may see this big change. But for us, I
(32:27):
feel like it's been a growth that we've experienced together
over time.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I'm kind of the same way. I don't see like
a big core shift in the KILLI or Akita in
terms of their personality. Kelley was a boss in ninety seven.
She's a boss today in terms of just having her
stuff together, knowing what she wants and going after Keita.
I've always been impressed by her strength. And I know we,
(32:53):
of course are tired of the strong black woman trope,
but Keita has gone through so much and has withstood
and it's still going. And I look at her and
I'm marvel because some of the decisions that she's had
to make would call somebody else to crumble, and she doesn't.
And she has these beautiful girls who are killing the game.
And I just, you know, I'm just in all. And
Keta also taught me way back when it's so random
(33:15):
that I remember this date, but in nineteen ninety eight,
she told me that friends serve different purposes and I
so needed to hear that, and it just shifted how
I thought about friendships. And I had the best friend
from high school and I wanted to be like, well,
I can't have other friends because I have this best friend.
And it just it was just like she was always
so much more together. She was always so much more
(33:37):
focused and mature, and she's still that way. Again, I
was terrified to move away from Winston Salem. Keta was like,
I've been all around the world. I mean, she's been everywhere.
She moved to Texas. So I've always admired about her.
And again, I think with Keeley, I'm just like fangirling.
But with Keeley I have always admired. Again, I think
in large part because of the family that she comes from,
(33:58):
just the confidence. Both of them are really confident women
that I feel like didn't have to cultivate confidence, whereas
I had to cultivate confidence because I was taught to
be humble, I was taught to be you know, all
sorts of things right. And I just admire those qualities
in them, and I think they helped show me a
different way of being. And it started way back then
(34:19):
and it still goes to now. I'm still in all
both of them.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
What I'd like to contribute to this. And what I'm
hearing is I feel like I am now looking at
how you all have the lack of a better word
imprinted on me. Right, So you know in the way
of how I am I changing because of their friendship
and their love and their being there. And we talk
about strength, but strength in times of where we need
that confidence and lame you hit the nail on the head.
(34:46):
What would my inner Kelly say? Right? And my killy voice?
We do our killy voice sometimes and it's like, no,
I'm not standing for that, or you know, with a
full Paul's period at the end, and what we're going
to do next, right, and just being resolute in an
opinion and standing true to it no matter what. We
have these things called kj's Keeley justified and anything goes
(35:10):
if you put a kJ behind it, right, And so
I take that with me every day and when I
needed the most, La Maya loves love, and La Maya
is La Maya loves all things. Some things you want
to have can may be loved. But I need that
in my life. Right. There's a lot of softening that
I think has happened for me over the years from
(35:32):
the both of them to be quite honest with you,
and just different perspective of key. You can't go in
there with that perspective where you can't go in there
carrying yourself in that way, or sometimes you do kind
of open up the people, right. You can't just stay
with us, And so I really do get different perspectives
from both of them that have just making me a
better person every day. Every time we grow, I'm growing
with them and they're stretching me and growing me. So
(35:54):
thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
There is no one size fits all model for how
to be a good sister, but I do think there
are some things that we can do to start hype
your sister friends up. You know how we do yes,
hair girl, you look amazing. Black women have this on lock.
It's our superpower. Compliments are known to uplift the giver
(36:16):
and the receiver. Practice giving verbal compliments daily to your sisters,
and don't forget about our little sisters. Page two fourteen.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Has already given us one for Maya. It is positive
she gets the positivity of war for ams of your friendships.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Because to the.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Point where we have said, if Lea, Maya gives you
a compliment, it's nice, it's sweet. But I'm gonna wait
on that because she may compliment you on song that's
not quite a cute Lamna you will, o man, you will.
But she's always looking for the post's. She will always
give you the positive and find the positive, and she
(37:02):
is a lover of love. Keita. I want to give
her the Planned and Precise Award, Like I'm out here, like,
let's do it, Let's do it. He's like, what's the time,
what are the dates? Did you get the tickets? Do
you have your stuff together? And I'm like, oh, well no,
but we're going. We're going. So she gets our Planning
Precise Award, and may it gets our Positivity Award, and
(37:25):
we need all of that medium.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
I have to give you the most likely to justify
whatever it is she wants, whatever it is, because there's
always a way, and I don't think there's anything wrong
with that. She is again has taught me there is
always a way to make a decision. And if you
make a decision and it ends up being not the
outcome you want it, guess what, Kelly, gonna justify another
(37:49):
pathway and it's gonna be fine. So I'll give you
the kJ Award.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
The most Powerful and long lasting sister friendships are the
ones that allow us to feel safe. We've been sharing
our hearts and stories in many ways. We've been doing
this all along. Introduction, page eighteen.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I would say, and this is specifically for black women.
Value your black sisters, value them, see them, show up
for them, but most importantly value them.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I'll say, make time and make space. And I guess
that's two. You want me to give you a justification
for two. But I would say, make space for people
in your life and for who they really are. I
think that's what creates a friendship. You be a safe
space for someone else. And and make time, like take
time like it's a priority for us to see each other,
(38:41):
Like eventually, we don't need to see each other every day,
every week, every quarter. It's important for us to have
the space and the time to pour into each other
every now and then in person. And so I think
those are important things if you want to have a
long lasting.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Friendship, I would say being vulnerable and being honest with
yourself about your vulnerabilities and knowing what you need and
knowing that you can't and you shouldn't right when you
find your people and when you find someone that fulfills
you in whatever kind of way that you're learning from,
you're growing with, you're not stagnant around, then open up
to them. And Tequila's point, leave that space and dedicate
(39:16):
that time to being nurtured, but just also putting yourself
out there to connect with people. Right. I certainly don't
know if I would have been friends with somebody I
thought was going to be a gang member, But there
was something in Killy that said, no matter what, this
gang member needs love. Yes, but I mean just again
being open and being willing to just or into and
(39:37):
to be poured into.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Black women are big dreamers, and the beauty of our
dreams is that they are so expansive that they are
not only about how our individual lives might be different,
but about how the world might be different. Page fifty six.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Oh, I got this one. So we've already talked about
somehow we are going to build a lunai that's gonna
intersect all of our homes will be connected, and we
will meet on the luni. Like the Golden Girls don't
happen one day. I don't know what state we're gonna
be in, says She's never leaving Atlanta. Georgia's way. It
might have to be there, but that's what we're gonna have. Yep,
(40:17):
that's right, not to days, that's not today's on the Lemni.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
But before we hit the Lani, we're gonna take these trips,
a big trip uninterrupted where we can just kick it
and chill and relax. I'm gonna have my permanent residence
in Atlanta, but I do think our Lani can be
at Batsack.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes, yes, agreed.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I want to thank Lemea, Akita and Keeley once again
for joining us for this episode. Don't forget to grab
your copy of Sisterhood Heels at Sisterhoodheels dot com to
explore more themes like the ones we discussed today, and
be sure to text two of your girls right now
and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're
looking for a therapist in your area, check out our
(41:03):
therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
And if you want to continue digging into this topic
or just be in community with other sisters, come on
over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our
cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women.
You can join us at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis,
(41:26):
and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care. Which friend are you and your sister circle?
Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader?
(41:50):
Take the quiz at Sisterhoodhels dot com slash quiz to
find out, and then make sure to grab your copy
of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you
can be a better friend and how your circle can
do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today
at sisterhood Heels dot com.
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