September 27, 2023 • 54 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
This Sex Positive September, we recognize that part of being sex positive is taking responsibility for your sexual health – by destigmatizing the conversation around STIs, knowing your status and staying up to date on the latest information. Joining me for this conversation is returning guest Dr. Tanya M. Bass. Dr. Bass holds certifications as a Certified Sexuality Educator with the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists, as well as a Certified Health Education Specialist.
In our conversation, we explored the common types of STIs and their symptoms, the importance of education in the prevention of STIs, and how getting to know your body can help you better recognize STI symptoms.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three twenty six of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. The reviews for
Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop
smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish
(01:18):
reading this warm hug of a book last night and
while it made me once a hug my sister friend
so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how
we as black women can use our community and friends
to aid in our healing process. Thank you so much
for the beautiful review. Have you grabbed your copy yet?
Get one for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com.
(01:45):
This sex Positive September, we recognize that part of being
sex positive is taking responsibility for your sexual health by
destigmatizing the conversation around STIs, knowing your status, and staying
up to date on the latest information. Joining me for
this conversation is returning guests. Doctor Tanya M. Bass. Doctor
Bass holds certifications as a Certified Sexuality Educator with the
(02:09):
American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists, as well
as a Certified Health Education Specialists. She is currently faculty
for the University of Michigan's Sexual Health Certificate program, as
well as the lead instructor for Human Sexuality at her
alma mater, North Carolina Central University. In our conversation, we
(02:30):
explored the common types of STIs in their symptoms, the
importance of education and the prevention of STIs, and how
getting to know your body can help you better recognize
STI symptoms. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
please share with us on social media using the hashtag
TBG In session or join us over in the sister
(02:53):
circle to talk more about the episode. You can join
us at community dot therapy for Black Girls dot Com.
Here's our common conversation. Well, thank you so much for
joining us again, doctor Bass.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, it's exciting. Been like following and sharing with people.
I know your following is growing and growing, so that's amazing. Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so the last time you were with us was
in twenty twenty. A lot has happened since then. Update
us on what's been going on for you since your
last appearance here.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think since my last appearance, I actually became doctor
Bass because I completed my dissertation in April twenty twenty one.
Been working and doing a couple of things with our
professional organization. But have you seen my background. It literally
looks like an institution because it is an institution. I'm
(03:45):
at nccu'sm my alma mater here in Durham, and I
just finished teaching class.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So just been teaching and loving it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
We brought you back because we are, of course again
celebrating sex positive September. I mean, we wanted to have
I think a very important conversations around STDs and STIs
as we start can you tell us the definition of
an STD and STI Is there a difference between those terms.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So I want to say, like historically, as we think
about STDs and STIs, like the name has definitely transition.
Always think about TV shows when people ask me about this.
But the original kind of name was like venereal disease,
and I remember when JJ on Good Times had VD.
(04:29):
So it went from being this weird, uncomfortable term of
venereal DS to sexually transmitted disease, which meant that it
was any kind of condition that could be transmitted from
person to person through sexual contact. And I think as
we've evolved, there are some of those types of conditions,
(04:51):
whether it's a bacteria or virus or even a parasite
that people get, but some of them don't cause disease,
Like your body might be in the disease state or
a state of illness at the moment, but you don't
live with that for the rest of your life. And
so most people were trying to transition away because it
had such a negative connotation to infection, which is.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because this pathogen or this bacteria, parasite or virus comes
into your body and infects you with it, and so
with treatment it actually will go away, kind of like
a science infection or a coal they're infections that are
temporarily although there are.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Some things that could be lifelong.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It just helped with the explanation of like, you become
infected with this thing, but you're not a diseased individual.
The side part is the worlds aren't meeting yet, so
you'll hear people say STD slash STI or d slash
I because some of the documentation from even the federal
government like the CDC doesn't match the language that they
(05:58):
use to help reduce stigma. So we still have to
use the terms interchangeably because some documents you'll see like
it's STD Awareness Month versus STI awaar in this month
or something like that. But pretty much just letting people
know that there's not a real difference. It's about the
stigma and the connotation around disease versus infection.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Got it. So to help continue to decrease the stigma,
the term we should be using as STIs. Okay, so
can you talk to me about some of the most
common STIs And I'm also interested to hear if that
has changed within the last ten years, is there a
new STI that is more prevalent now then that was
not maybe like several years ago.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, there have been some shifts right Earlier in the years,
like let's say the seventies, we saw more people having
gonorrhea or the collap and people would say that people
were burning, right because it calls.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Burning upon your nation.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But after that we started seeing more chlamydia, which is
very similar to gonnerrhea, but under the microscope acuse, true,
different bacteria, but the infection works the same way in
our bodies. The shift has been we have seen rates
of syphilis, which has been around pretty long too, but
(07:18):
we saw a decrease in syphlis and then an increase
in the late nineties. We had a lot of efforts,
especially in North Carolina where I am. We had a
syphilis elimination project right like it was basically going to
different places trying to eliminate and reduce that because it
is one hundred percent preventable out of all the infections.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And we saw those rates come down in the South.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
But during COVID we started seeing a resurgence or increase
in syphilis due to a range of factors. So if
I were to say, if we think about the bacterial infections,
primarily it would be ganeria and chamythia and I use
them together, and then syphilis and syphilis rising. If I
think about viral infections, HIV or course is still very common,
(08:08):
with herpes probably being the most common because a lot
of times people don't even know they have it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
MM, thank you for that. So what are some of
the common like shared symptoms of STIs that people should
be on the lookout for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now here's the wild thing. I guess it's like I
really get excited about it, but not in like a
weird way, but ultimately like the science behind it is
kind of like knowing how it works, right, the epidemiology
of it. And so when we look at goannery and chlamydia,
for many people, there are no symptoms at all. It's
laying in your body, it's growing, it's doing its thing,
(08:43):
but it's also being attuned to your body or aware
of your body. One of the most common symptoms is
an abnormal discharge, and that's gonna usually come from the
urethra or maybe around the vagina, and it's something that
you have to be aware of to know that it's
at normal.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So you have to be a tuned to your body.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And then secondly, which is a sign we were talking
about earlier, which is a burning upon urination. So when
you're urinate, if there's like a tingling, itching or burning
kind of feeling during yourination, those are the most common symptoms.
Now with syphilis, which is another bacterial infection, those symptoms
(09:23):
can mimic a whole lot of things because syphilis is
a stage disease, so during the first stage, a lot
of people don't know they have it because the first
symptom is like I will use the word sore, but
most of the time when you're sore, people are like
it hurts, but it doesn't hurt. So it's really a shanker,
and it's going to appear where you became infected. So
(09:45):
if you have oral sex, it's going to be in
your mouth, you have anal sex, or vaginal sex, it's
going to be on your vaginal or your penis, or
your shaft or your testicles.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Anywhere in your anatomy.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And the interesting thing about it is that this sore
or shanker is going to go way on its own.
So you see something abnormal, you're like, wow, what is
that it doesn't hurt you, may or not put something
home remedy on it, and then it's gonna go away.
But that just means a bacteria now is basically going
(10:14):
through your body and causing more infection. So those symptoms
in the second stage could be like a rash on
your hands. It could look like eczema, It could look
like psoriasis. A real kind of not really funny story,
but when I was working as a disease investigator, my
dermatologist had diagnosed someone that I had given syphilis results
(10:35):
too as having psoriasis, and as a specialist in his field,
he looked at this skin condition and was like, that
is definitely psoriasis, but it was actually secondary rash a
syphilis that just occurred in this individual. So they also
called syphilis a great imitator, So you could have a
rash and not really know that it's actually syphiless or
(10:58):
an sci So the most common would be no symptom,
the burning upon urination and the discharge, and then it
could be different rashes or appearances on your skin that
could be presented.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
As okay doctor, bas So, given that the most common
symptom is no symptom, what kinds of things do you
think people need to know then to try to keep
themselves safe or to be able to go to a
physician or a medical professional to kind of get checked out.
What should they be looking for?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I feel like people really need to examine and look
at and be aware of their own bodies. As someone
who may have a menstrual cycle, what does the discharge
or I'm using discharge but maybe the vaginal lubrication look
like throughout your monthly cycle, how it feels, how it looks,
et cetera. Be an attuned to what your labia looks like,
(11:51):
your genitals in general for everybody, so that you can
say this spot wasn't there before and realize that you
might need to go in the biggest thing is to
normalize testing, to go in, talk to your sex partners,
to normalize testing and really normalize a diagnosis. One of
the things I've come into acceptance of and want people
(12:15):
to accept as well, is that having an STD diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Can be a part of a normal and.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Even air quotations. I guess healthy sexual development like it
could happen to you and you can also manage it.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
You can also cure it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You can also not have it happen again, and it's
part of your sexual experience and not the end of
a sexual experience or have to be something that you
feel condemned for for the rest of your life because
it can happen.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Does it happen to everybody?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
But can it happen to everybody? Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So I think having those open conversations with your doctors
and being attuned to what your body actually looks like
and feels like mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So how would you suggest somebody get started with familiarizing
themselves with their bodies.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It's good that you ask me that.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I was telling you I just finished teaching class
and we're just covering anatomy and having the conversation with
students and asking them like have they really looked at
their genitoia before? And most of them have not, and
they think of it as weird or uncomfortable, and ideally
it kind of is weird and uncomfortable, but it's your body.
(13:29):
Like we look at our faces all the time. We
probably look at our legs and arms and our hands.
I know we look at our hands a lot, and
so just looking at are there changes, Like what is
this actually supposed to look like if we think about
even when I'm teaching, I try to be as diverse
as I can in images that I use around anatomy,
(13:50):
but it's still not your anatomy, and so ultimately you
have to do that. So I encourage them to take
a mirror, spend a little time with themselves, get to
know what they look like, and even compare, not in
a they want to change your body kind of way,
but compare their bodies, like with the anatomy assignment of
(14:12):
like learning the exterior body parts so that they can
identify them for themselves. But yeah, it really takes getting
used to your own body and a level of comfort.
And I think some of our parents, even grandparents have
really fostered a sense of that and making people comfortable.
But it's still in many instances uncomfortable for them to
(14:34):
even have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So you don't always learn it in your house.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, it's interesting, doctor to ask, because I feel
like I remember somebody asking me a question like that,
like probably a professor like you asking a question like
that in undergrad and a lot of people feeling uncomfortable
and like, oh, absolutely not. We haven't done that, and
I was curious to hear if students. Now twenty plus
years later, we're feeling more comfortable, but it sounds like
you're still getting a lot of like, no, I'm not
comfortable doing that. In it you have to encourage them
(15:01):
to like actually pull out a mirror and like look
at their genitals.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I think there's this weird stigma I think, perhaps in
our households, perhaps in general society, of like why are
you looking at yourself?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Something must be wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And it's kind of like it's okay for your partner
to look but not you, And that's definitely an imbalance,
like you should be looking at it even before your
partner looks at it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Right right, So I'm curious act your bass. It feels
like maybe five to ten years ago, there was this
huge push around like the HPV vaccine. Have you seen
or has the research shown like a significant decrease in
HPV related to the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I started working on even a project to prevent HPV
or prevent cervical cancer a few years back. Wow, And
it was actually ten years ago to do that and
encouraging the use of the vaccine and no course just
like with any vaccine. We've seen this with COVID, there
are some hesitations around that, and then when you start
(16:03):
thinking about something that is going to reduce an STI
in this case, it also makes people uncomfortable because they
think you're giving someone the green light, especially young people,
because it was predominantly for individuals who are like nine
to twenty four years old, that you're encouraging sexual behavior
when many of us already know folks probably even without consent,
(16:28):
are already engaging in sexual activity.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But it's also preventive.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
And the idea around hesitation of like what in the
future are these vaccines potentially side effects, etc.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But we certainly have seen it.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I know in many states the HPV vaccine became a
part of the required immunizations for childhood immunizations, so that
it was added to that list just like.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
The other ones. And we have seen a decrease in that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I do think as e as HPV is to
transmit that we still have to keep those messages out
there that we can prevent cervical cancer or any kind
of complications were related to at least four to six
types of HPV.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Mmmm hm, you know, and just like that campaign. It
does feel like there have been years and years of
efforts to decrease the numbers of STIs and STDs, right,
but it does feel like there's still an increase. Like
you mentioned, what do you feel like it's going to
take to like finally see a decrease And what do
you make of the fact that we are still seeing
such high numbers of things like chlamity and syphilis.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
If I could use a couple of terms, like you know,
like in a period or maybe a comma, I mean
interesting enough, racism is really at the root of a
lot of this oppression, power and capitalism. And I say
that because now we have so many newer technologies, and
we also have had multiple technies where there's some things
(18:01):
that can prevent multiple things, so like it could be
pregnancy in HIV or HIV and other STIs, and so
we have something called doxy prep that is available. A
lot of people in the community, the general community may
not know about it. I think the marketing, just like
a lot of things have started in communities where let's say,
(18:25):
scientists or researchers will say are more.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
At risk, like gay men, and I think that's fair.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
But I also think we have to look at the
intersectional approaches around that and how a lot of communities
are vulnerable and so we need to promote doxy prep
equitably and inclusively. The same would be true for HIV PREP.
So the pre exposure prophylaxics are actual medications that people
(18:55):
can take to help protect them from say doxy PREP,
that will protect folks from gonerhea if they take this medication.
And then we have PREP, which is the mainstream one
where we're now seeing more Black women in particular, thinking
about you know, your work and sometimes who you're supporting
(19:16):
Black women having more exposure and access to PREP to
prevent HIV. But in the beginning, PREP wasn't fully marketed
to our community in that way, and even if it was,
it wasn't financially accessible either. So I think we have
to look at making sure when we get advances in
(19:39):
our technologies that it's available and accessible to everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I appreciate you bringing that in and clarifying, because I
was going to ask you, like, is doxy PREP the
same one? But it sounds like those are two different medications,
one for gneria and one for HIV prevention. Got it?
Got it? So continuing with that line of things, are
there other things that Black women need to be aware
of in terms of our particular risk factors for certain STIs? Like,
(20:08):
are there other things that you've seen or in your
work that you think black women need to really have
on their radar?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I do.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think that we really have to think about our
overall sexual health and ensuring that we're doing the best
that we can in terms of monitoring our overall sexual
health and wellness, whether that be anytime.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I don't say sexual health like just our health
in general.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So if we get a cold or we're really stressed out,
our immune system is going to be compromised. And just
like getting pregnant, innocence, getting an STI or STD everything
has to be just right. So it has to be
that a you're exposed to it by someone, and that
b it can actually get into your body. And then
see the part that when I'm speaking to our overall health,
(20:54):
like how is your body able to potentially fight off
this virus or this bacteria because your immune system plays
a part and whether you get affected or not as well.
And so if we can really take care of our
health being stressed out, if you already have a diagnosis
in particular for herpes. If you don't manage your stress,
(21:17):
Herpes is activated by a nervous system, and so if
you're at a state of stress, even if you're taking
medication to manage it, a lot of times you have
what we call outbreaks in herpes that you can't suppress
the outbreaks until you don't have one, And so with
one of the medications that suppresses, you have to not
(21:39):
have that outbreak. But if you're at a state of stress,
you're always in kind of an outbreak state, because you
might have an outbreak and go into recovery and then
another outbreak kind of overlaps that one, so you don't
have that space to take the medication to suppress HIV.
I remember working with a student who was in law school,
(22:01):
and I'm pretty sure that was stressful, and she was
in a long distance relationship and she had a herpes diagnosis,
and she was so frustrated. She went to our counseling
center because she really needed to manage her stress, and
in turn that was something that could help her.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Manage her herpes outbreaks as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So we really have to take care of our overall
health in general to help keep that you know, things
at bay or manageable may not prevent it, but at
least we have a strong immune system to help fight
it off and help with the recovery as well.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
More from our conversation after the break, So, I feel
like the answer to this will be a lot because
you are a sex educator. But what role do you
feel like education has in decreasing the number of STI
(23:00):
is that we typically are seeing.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think it has a huge role. I mean I
came into this work old school, pre the full Internet.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
We had like a little bit of internet, and we
had hotlines.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
People were calling from all over the United States asking
questions and questions that you think is kind of common knowledge,
but people really don't know, like how is the disease
transmitt it? What are the signs and symptoms? Where do
I even go to get tested or treatment? And those
are things I think, as someone who works as an educator,
(23:35):
take for granted because I have the answers and I've
had these conversations with people who are doing the same thing,
and so education can play a role to ensure that
people can do their best to protect themselves. When I
think about STD prevention and education, I use the term
we all know better than we do, and I can
(23:57):
also equate that to like flossing your teeth in general.
I can say if we were to think about first
hand defense for SEIS is condom use well abstinence right,
because people are always gonna say, well, if you have
the same But again, that's gonna choice people have freely
because of non consensual events, and it's not a choice
(24:17):
that's realistic for some people, and it's just not a
choice people want, period. But if we go to the
next line of defense, which would be condoms, there are
people going back to flossing teeth. Pretty much everyone knows
and has heard that a condom can't prevent pregnancy and
transmission of infection. However, there are reasons why people choose
(24:39):
not to. Everyone knows you should floss your teeth because
it's gonna help you have better dental health. But people
have reasons that they choose not to flyss even if
it's I don't have time because I'm rushing out the
door every day, so I'll brush my teeth, but I
don't floss them. They're gonna be reasons why people don't
use condoms. But through edge occasion, we can help people
(25:01):
make behavior change, and so how do I make time?
Or if I don't like the way condoms feel, how
do I make them feel better? And I'm living with
a guilt trip. Well, I'm not living, I'm recovering because
I know you're a therapist, So I'm recovering from the
guilt trip of being programmed in a prevention world that
(25:22):
used to tell people, Oh, condoms can feel just as good,
or they feel just as good, or put a little
lube on it, and that's really not true. In theory,
they can feel better, but it doesn't feel the same.
You can get some that are thin and that may
feel better, but ultimately we have to make condoms enjoyable.
(25:43):
It's like if you get a meal that you're hungry,
but it's not really satisfying. You might put a little
saracha or hot sauce on it and it's gonna make
it a little more pleasurable and enjoyable, but it's still
not what you might have wanted to taste originally.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
So you added something to it.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And I think education allows us to explore and explain
how to make things more pleasurable that are actually a
preventive effort.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
When you think about prep A.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Lot of people don't like taking medication or have a
hard time, you know, swallowing pills. But through knowing that
this is something that can help reduce HIV transmission, that's
just another bonus and relief that you don't have to
worry about as much as you would if you didn't
have that type of preventive efforts. So I think education
(26:32):
is paramount.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, I appreciate those analogies. I think that's super helpful
to really help people understand like why sometimes we don't
make the choices that we maybe know we should make.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Great.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, So I am sure that you were aware
of this, and the TVG team found this article recently fascinating.
So there has been an increase of course in like
STDs and STIs in elder care homes.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Can you talk with us a little bit about like
what is causing this spike is happening with this population?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
The biggest thing and this actually started a few years back,
like at least in my experience here in North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Won't name any.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Places, but there are articles available online should you google.
But it's really that idea of like as we grow
older that we're not sexual beings, we don't have desires
and we're not connecting. But you got to think about it.
We're still going to have feelings. We're still going to
have desire, and a lot of the centers where people
(27:30):
live in facilities, they also have opportunity, right, and so
you know, there's opportunity to actually engage in sex, and
so we don't make condoms available. I recently had a
conversation with a local department of aging to talk about
coming to speak with their residents and if staff who
(27:51):
are there about pleasure, about aging, and about safety and sexuality.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Because until we're gone, we're going to be sexual.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And the ideas that we don't provide prevention information because
we think we're out of the child very age and
so pregnancy is not of importance, but STIs still should be. Also,
there are people, even if they're not having relationship and
physical intimacy within the resident or in the facility, they
(28:23):
have people who are coming in and sex workers and girlfriends,
boyfriends whomever could actually come and visit and bring things
into the facility as well. So we really I think
the rise is not having conversations about pleasure and intimacy
as people age and then only equating risk factors for
(28:48):
sex with pregnancy prevention.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and it does feel like prevention overall has moved
away from so much like don't get pregnant, right, because
it feels like that was the focus for a very
long time. Can you talk a little bit about that
transition that you've seen.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I think people were embracing what we call sex positivity,
where there's more to healthy sexuality than disease or pregnancy prevention.
I also think, at least from a public health perspective,
and I hope this is true universally, although I know
there are challenges. Is that we have come to the
(29:25):
realization of the stigmatizing effect of some of our prevention efforts. Right,
So if you look at data and disparity in numbers
and communities of color, and I specifically think about the
black community and black women and girls being stigmatized as
being hypersexual or the ones who actually need a long
(29:46):
acting reversubal contraception versus being able to choose from the
many methods that are available that work for them. We
are moving towards and not just the things you shouldn't do,
but the things you.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Can can do.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Are encouraged to do as part of being sex positive
and experiencing pleasure. I always give credit to doctor Jocelyn Elders,
who was our first African American Surgeon General. Although she
paid the cost for advocating for a masturbation, which is
a very sex positive approach, she's left the door open
(30:23):
for people like me and others to continue talking about
it and promoting getting to know your body, doing things safely,
and another option to experience pleasure that doesn't involve someone else.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I appreciate you bringing her up because, yeah, she definitely
was not looked upon favorably. I think at the time
that was happening. Yeah, So I think something else that
people could benefit from is hearing more about how they
should take care of themselves, like post like a sexual act,
So what kinds of things should someone be doing kind
(30:58):
of immediately after sex that is like good for your health. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think a lot of people talk about urinating, so
emptying your bladder. Some people say before and after. I
think there's some conflicting things there, but urinating not necessarily
you know, having to shower, but definitely separating for a
little while, like discarding any condoms if there are sex
(31:24):
toys or any other objects being used to make sure
that they are cleaned properly, and just keeping an eye
out on again, what's happening in your body, posts intimacy,
just to make sure everything is air quotation is normal
for you in that situation. I would definitely say prior
(31:44):
to though, having those conversations with your sex partners if
you're able to. I know, sometimes someone that you might
encounter might not be a long term partner, might not
be someone you know very well, but you could still
try to approach asking the questions and not making assumptions
(32:04):
about their health. There's a level of trust there. You
have to take that into consideration. But post keeping in
touch with someone as someone who has served as a
contact tracer, well, I use that COVID language, but I
was a disease intervention investigator that we had to go
find people that other people had sex with to tell
(32:26):
them that they might have been exposed or to tell
them that they exposed someone. And so in this age
of technology, try to have people's information because it makes
it so much easier.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
As I was telling you about syphilis being one hundred
percent preventable, if someone has sex with someone and then
they go and they develop that first sign and get
tested and it's positive if they've had sex with other
people even during that time period. But they can give
the healthcare provider the information that a person can be traced,
(33:01):
contacted and given medication to prevent them from actually ever
getting syphilists themselves and giving it to someone else. So
having information, even if it's someone you don't know well,
you met on an app or whatever, and having enough
contact information should this occur, makes it easier too to
(33:24):
help prevent disease from spreading in the community.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
More from our conversation after the break, so kind of
continuing along their vein of having some of these conversations
with partners or potential partners. How and when do you
suggest someone share that they do actually have an STD.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Listen, doctor Joy.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That is a very tough question because disclosure can really
be dangerous, and so we think about disclosing an STD
experience or status, we really have to think about the
pros and the cons and the winds and the wear.
And I don't think it really depends like some people
say it depends on what the infection is or the sciard,
(34:15):
But I think it may not, because the first thing
is once you tell someone, you can't untell them, and
you can't control anytime they might involuntarily disclose your status themselves.
So that's like, I think the biggest fear that people
actually have, and so oftentimes you really have to think
about where this relationship might be going or what did
(34:39):
you do to actually prevent any type of exposure. And
I say that because if it's herpes, the moral, like
if we think about society and more moral thing, people
are like, yeah, you should tell people you have herpes,
And I think there's a level of truth to that,
but I also think there's a consequence to that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
And so if you think about.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
The science of it, if you're not experiencing an outbreak,
if you're on suppressive therapy, and adding if you use
a barrier method, then the likelihood of you transmitting that
is very slim. Saying would be if you're like on
prep or something like that. But it becomes tricky because
(35:22):
the moral tends to outweigh the science. So we have
something with HIV in particular, called you equals you. So
if someone's living with HIV and they're on their meds,
they are in good health. They are what we considered undetectable,
so there's very small trace amounts of HIV in their
(35:42):
blood and body fluids, then they are very much likely
to be untransmittable. However, we wouldn't tell everyone to say,
go out and have the type of sex that would
cause the exchange of body fluids. But also we know
if you're on medication and you're undetectable, the likelihood of
(36:04):
transmission is also going to be low. So there's the science,
and then there's the moral aspect. I don't know where
the to meet is really based on the individual and
also knowing that there are risk associated with disclosing, but
there's so many benefits because a lot of people are
becoming more educated, so they wouldn't be as fearful of
(36:27):
having physical intimate experiences with you because they know how
to protect themselves. And so that's the piece where we
were talking earlier. Education comes into play because now the
more educated I am, if I were someone who let's
say we're living with herpes, the better I can educate
you while I'm disclosing my status so you fully understand
(36:52):
where we are. And then also normalizing this is a
part of a life experience.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I appreciate you breaking that I wasn't even aware of
all of those, like, Okay, the risk is like much
smaller if X, Y and Z are in place. So
I appreciate you sharing that with us. And it does
feel like some of those conversations are probably better had
with people that you know, maybe a little better, right,
because it feels like there needs to be some level
of trust to even be able to have that kind
(37:19):
of conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And I know there's some advocates who are put it
out on the line and communicate immediately, but again like
they're at a different level in space than potentially, you know,
the average person out in the community and what that
risk look like for them.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Doctor mass, I wonder if you have any suggestions or
things you could offer to somebody who maybe has had
a diagnosis of an incurable STD or an STI and
maybe see themselves as like damaged goods, so to speak,
anything that you could say there.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It really makes me sad when I hear that, because
I've seen that time and time again with individuals, even
someone concerned.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
With herpes and being able to.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Become pregnant and a mom and she is a mom now,
so that's amazing. But having that conversation early on, she
was given a diagnosis. So this is the other thing
about our peers in the healthcare setting, who are more
the medical actual providers in a sense versus some of
the educators, is that she was given this diagnosis but
(38:25):
not given any additional information about what does that mean
to have a herpes diagnosis, and so therefore she just
assumed that she wouldn't be able to concede. So that
whole stigma around being damaged, like now I have this condition,
I can't conceive. So I think the advice is to
(38:47):
learn as much as you can about your condition. But
then there are so many support groups for persons living
with HIV, persons who've experienced HPV, and person living with
herpes who can actually educate you on navigating kind of
(39:07):
a new normal in a sense, because you're experience in
a different space with a diagnosis, and there's life after
a diagnosis, and there's great sex after a diagnosis, and
really understanding again the science of the condition that you
have so that it doesn't interfere with the pleasure and
(39:29):
your sexual experiences. So I would tell that person to
become educated to feel the fields because it can be scary,
it can be sad, it can be alienating, like feeling
like you're the only person out there. But given how
common many of these conditions are, knowing that you're not
(39:50):
alone and there are support groups and resources available, but
to really understand that it can be hard and knowing
they're going to be ups and downs. A lot of
times people are impacted with their mental health because it
could cause like onsets of depression and maybe even anxiety
around the diagnosis. But that there's definitely a way to
(40:14):
have a very fulfilling life and a very fulfilling sex life.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
So what kinds of conversations should people be having with
themselves and with partners or potential partners about protected sex
versus unprotected sex.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
For example, if you are living with HIV, and really
even if you think about other chronic conditions, your immune
system can be compromised. So using protection really is about
you first, because you're able to protect yourself and it's
okay to be selfish, and that way is like, listen.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I'm not even worried about you, I'm worried about me.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
So therefore we're going to use this method or I'm
going to be on prep, toxi prep, whatever it may be, condoms,
dental dams, etc. So it's okay in that regard to
be selfish, and I think for others it's okay to
be caring and say it's also about us, like it's
about me first, but then it's about us if we
want to have a fulfilling sex life, not worrying about
(41:15):
infecting one another with something that could be important. The
other part that I'm leaning into as well as someone
who's been so prevention minded, is understanding that relationships change
and as we grow and we build trust with one another,
that having condomless sex isn't the worst thing that can
(41:38):
happen because people.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Were already doing it. They're not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Becoming pregnant or getting a diagnosis. But it takes time
to build that trust and vulnerability, and for some people
they may never get there. I think we probably know
plenty of people who are having condomless sex for a
range of different types of relationships and it hasn't been detrimental.
And so while we still want to promote the use
(42:04):
of condoms, barriers in any other prevented methods, we also
know that some people get into that place in their
relationship where there's an opportunity I'm going to use the
word to relax it or understand and connect with their
partner in such a way that that may not be
a choice that they're still willing to make for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So you've mentioned several times after bands this idea of
how technology has really impacted what we know and what
we can learn about SCIS and STDs. I'm curious to
hear a couple of different things. So I want to
hear how technology has maybe made your job maybe easier
and more difficult. And I also want to hear about
(42:49):
social media now is a part of the landscape that
probably wasn't a part of your job maybe what ten
fifteen years ago, And so I also am curious to
hear your thoughts about like current conversations you're here about
STIs on social media.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
So I think the first thing in the advances in
technology has been a like the dating apps being open
to the federal government as well as state and local
government programs being able to provide educational and informational like
(43:23):
commercials or marketing and tips on safe sex, like I
remember Bumble was one that was open to it, and
some of the other ones, and you know, meeting with
app developers to figure out like how to even create
something that could be transferable as educational commercials or infomercials
(43:45):
or slots marketing, so to speak. On these apps and
apps being open to it and understanding, you know, and
sometimes we're in a crisis mode around that. But then
even with the app developers, we have some apps that
are available where maybe you're a little hesitant to you
find out you have an STD, you get a diagnosis
(44:08):
and you really don't want to confront this person, or
maybe you don't even have all that person's information, but
you can put that person's information in an app and
a message will be sent to them that could potentially
protect your anonymity or if you want to disclose who
you are, but not you having to do it yourself,
but this app sends a message. So we have new
(44:30):
apps like that that can notify people once you put
your information in if they need to encourage them to
go get testing. So I think those are some of
the positive advancements. Some of the challenges are still the
TikTok experts, you know, like TikTok it's an amazing place
to get information a lot of social media is, but
(44:52):
there's so many people who are providing misinformation that as
educators and trained professionals, we're having to counter where they
are and people have a large following gives them way
more credibility than someone who's either working in this work
or you know, studying and researching it as well, So
(45:15):
you have to counter that and being able to reach
out to some of those influencers to let them know
when information is accurate or not. It seems like many
of my colleagues will get banned as credible sources than
those who are not credible, Like after my Instagram taken
(45:37):
away and I was like, way, but I'm doing good work.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
So because you also are you know, heavily embedded in
working with students, what kinds of conversations are you seeing
them have about SCIS, either on social media or just
even in person.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Well, are been fortunate, you know, here in North Carolina
to work with some students in particular who are open
and chouraging their peers to have these conversations. So at
my school, we have a peer education group that's been
established since about two thousand and one, providing education, coordinating testing, events.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'm at an HBCU and a lot of.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Our HBCUs have engaged in programming similar to this to
educate and or connect with their local health department. So
resources beyond student health is available to students, and you
can see that on other majority campuses as well. I
think our students are open to it. I love teaching
(46:34):
my class. I get to ask them beyond even STDs,
like what are some of the topics people want to know?
And people in the last few semesters have talked about
what it means to be sex positive actually being activists
around sexual health and access to STD service as well
as reproductive services and reproductive justice. So I think what
(46:59):
we're seeing is students want to be informed, but they
don't want to be oppressed. And I think, as a
student who felt like there was a little bit more
of oppression and judgment and thinking about balancing respectability politics,
our student population I think is looking or in general,
not just my campus, are looking for ways to be
(47:22):
sexually liberated and safe at the same time. And they
want valid, readily available resources to be educated on and
how to educate their peers. If I tell my class,
oh so and such is on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
You should follow them because they talk about this.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I can reach out to that person and say how
many new followers did you get today? And they they
I'll say, I think those are probably my students for
my students' friends, because they want to have it readily available.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So you mentioned earlier support groups for people that they
can join, like if they have a new diagnosis, can
you share any resources that might be helpful for people
if they have a new diagnosis or they just want
more information.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
One of my favorite people to follow is Courtney Brain.
He leads Something Positive for Positive People, which is a
support network and resource entity for persons living with herpes,
and I think some of what they offer actually can
apply in general. Doctor Gabrielle Evans as well as the
(48:30):
Minority Sex Report, they also provide information Doctor Evans shares
about her own personal experiences living with herpes as well.
The American Sexual Health Association, which is actually our oldest
US based sexuality education organization. Proud that it's right here
in North Carolina and I used to work there. That's
(48:53):
what the hotline I was totally about was established. But
now they you know, online web resources and support groups
as well as I'm gonna say virtual appointments with providers
who specialize in HIV or HPV or herpes treatment and support.
(49:16):
So there are a lot of different places where people
can actually get resources if they're navigating a diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Thank you for that, And what kinds of suggestions would
you give to family members or friends who may need
to support someone who has just gotten a new diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Now you're in my personal business, because you know, as
an educator, I was just thinking about a relative who
had gotten a diagnosis and it was almost like they
forgot what I've ever said to them, or maybe it
didn't hit then because I don't know, maybe because they
didn't have.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
To deal with it.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
But just reevaluating letting people know how things are transmitted.
I think about like a person having an HIV diagnosis
and being invited over to dinner and getting like paper
plate in the disposable fork and spoon, and how awful
that felt for them. So I think family and friends
(50:14):
need to be as educated so that when something does
happen in the family environment that they can remain supportive
and fully understand that you can take precautions. You should
take precautions, but you don't have to go to an
extreme and you don't have to really reinforce the stigma
of being diseased or whatever. I think also understanding that
(50:38):
sometimes so this is when I said, you're in my business.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Like for me, sometimes I'm just your cousin.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I'm not the Southern sexologist and nobody cares. And so
it's important to know that education is available. It might
be available in your family, but at least get it
from somewhere. And then also so I think what I
try to do in my family or trying to do,
is to break the generational secrecy and stigma and shame
(51:08):
around sex in general. Just being open to say, like,
we don't want the next generation to feel as lost
as we may have felt, so thinking about liberating being
sexual free and not experiencing some of the issues and
challenges we had to experience by actually sharing our stories
(51:29):
in context right and within boundaries so that it's a
learning experience for the generation behind us.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Thank you so much for that. You have given us
so much today, Doctor Baz. If you had to kind
of distill all of what we've talked about to like
three major things you'd like for people to walk away
from this conversation, knowing what would they be.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
I would want people to walk away with the desire
to really learn more about their bodies, to learn more
about the different infections in how they work, including the
prevention of but also what it's like living with a diagnosis,
(52:10):
and then most importantly, like I just said, sharing anything
that you learn with the next generation and even like
your peers and your friends and family right now who
might be the same age issue.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
So where can we stay connected with you, doctor Vans?
What is your website as well as any social media
channels you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Sure? So my website is www.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Tanyambass dot com and I'm on Instagram at doctor Tanya MBAs.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
So you can slide in the DMS if you need appropriately.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
And can we find you on TikTok as well?
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And no, I'm there, I'm a voyeur. I am a
voyeur on TikTok, but I am there as Tanya Vass.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yes, perfect, perfect. We will be short to include all
of that in the show notes. Thank you so much,
doctor Bass. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I'm so glad doctor Bass was able to join us
to share her expertise for this episode. To learn more
about her and her work, visit the show notes at
Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three twenty six,
and don't forget to visit Sexpositive September dot com for
all the other incredible conversations we've had this month. And
remember to text two of your girls right now to
(53:28):
share this episode. If you're looking for a therapist in
your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue
digging into this topic or just be in community with
other sisters, come on over and join us in the
Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet, designed
just for black women. You can join us at community
(53:50):
dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced
by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was
done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing
this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
(54:12):
What's the reviews for sisterhood? Heels are rolling in and
I simply cannot stop smiling at the Hot Girl books
on Instagram shared finish reading this warm hug of a
book last night, and while it made me once a
hug my sister friend so bad. Sisterhood Heels is a
beautiful guide on how we as black women can use
(54:33):
our community and friends to aid in our healing process.
Thank you so much for the beautiful review. Have you
grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself and a
friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three twenty six of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
conversation after a word from our sponsors. The reviews for
Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop
smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish
(01:18):
reading this warm hug of a book last night and
while it made me once a hug my sister friend
so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how
we as black women can use our community and friends
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for the beautiful review. Have you grabbed your copy yet?
Get one for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com.
(01:45):
This sex Positive September, we recognize that part of being
sex positive is taking responsibility for your sexual health by
destigmatizing the conversation around STIs, knowing your status, and staying
up to date on the latest information. Joining me for
this conversation is returning guests. Doctor Tanya M. Bass. Doctor
Bass holds certifications as a Certified Sexuality Educator with the
(02:09):
American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists, as well
as a Certified Health Education Specialists. She is currently faculty
for the University of Michigan's Sexual Health Certificate program, as
well as the lead instructor for Human Sexuality at her
alma mater, North Carolina Central University. In our conversation, we
(02:30):
explored the common types of STIs in their symptoms, the
importance of education and the prevention of STIs, and how
getting to know your body can help you better recognize
STI symptoms. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
please share with us on social media using the hashtag
TBG In session or join us over in the sister
(02:53):
circle to talk more about the episode. You can join
us at community dot therapy for Black Girls dot Com.
Here's our common conversation. Well, thank you so much for
joining us again, doctor Bass.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, it's exciting. Been like following and sharing with people.
I know your following is growing and growing, so that's amazing. Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so the last time you were with us was
in twenty twenty. A lot has happened since then. Update
us on what's been going on for you since your
last appearance here.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think since my last appearance, I actually became doctor
Bass because I completed my dissertation in April twenty twenty one.
Been working and doing a couple of things with our
professional organization. But have you seen my background. It literally
looks like an institution because it is an institution. I'm
(03:45):
at nccu'sm my alma mater here in Durham, and I
just finished teaching class.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So just been teaching and loving it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
We brought you back because we are, of course again
celebrating sex positive September. I mean, we wanted to have
I think a very important conversations around STDs and STIs
as we start can you tell us the definition of
an STD and STI Is there a difference between those terms.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So I want to say, like historically, as we think
about STDs and STIs, like the name has definitely transition.
Always think about TV shows when people ask me about this.
But the original kind of name was like venereal disease,
and I remember when JJ on Good Times had VD.
(04:29):
So it went from being this weird, uncomfortable term of
venereal DS to sexually transmitted disease, which meant that it
was any kind of condition that could be transmitted from
person to person through sexual contact. And I think as
we've evolved, there are some of those types of conditions,
(04:51):
whether it's a bacteria or virus or even a parasite
that people get, but some of them don't cause disease,
Like your body might be in the disease state or
a state of illness at the moment, but you don't
live with that for the rest of your life. And
so most people were trying to transition away because it
had such a negative connotation to infection, which is.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Because this pathogen or this bacteria, parasite or virus comes
into your body and infects you with it, and so
with treatment it actually will go away, kind of like
a science infection or a coal they're infections that are
temporarily although there are.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Some things that could be lifelong.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It just helped with the explanation of like, you become
infected with this thing, but you're not a diseased individual.
The side part is the worlds aren't meeting yet, so
you'll hear people say STD slash STI or d slash
I because some of the documentation from even the federal
government like the CDC doesn't match the language that they
(05:58):
use to help reduce stigma. So we still have to
use the terms interchangeably because some documents you'll see like
it's STD Awareness Month versus STI awaar in this month
or something like that. But pretty much just letting people
know that there's not a real difference. It's about the
stigma and the connotation around disease versus infection.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Got it. So to help continue to decrease the stigma,
the term we should be using as STIs. Okay, so
can you talk to me about some of the most
common STIs And I'm also interested to hear if that
has changed within the last ten years, is there a
new STI that is more prevalent now then that was
not maybe like several years ago.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, there have been some shifts right Earlier in the years,
like let's say the seventies, we saw more people having
gonorrhea or the collap and people would say that people
were burning, right because it calls.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Burning upon your nation.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
But after that we started seeing more chlamydia, which is
very similar to gonnerrhea, but under the microscope acuse, true,
different bacteria, but the infection works the same way in
our bodies. The shift has been we have seen rates
of syphilis, which has been around pretty long too, but
(07:18):
we saw a decrease in syphlis and then an increase
in the late nineties. We had a lot of efforts,
especially in North Carolina where I am. We had a
syphilis elimination project right like it was basically going to
different places trying to eliminate and reduce that because it
is one hundred percent preventable out of all the infections.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And we saw those rates come down in the South.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
But during COVID we started seeing a resurgence or increase
in syphilis due to a range of factors. So if
I were to say, if we think about the bacterial infections,
primarily it would be ganeria and chamythia and I use
them together, and then syphilis and syphilis rising. If I
think about viral infections, HIV or course is still very common,
(08:08):
with herpes probably being the most common because a lot
of times people don't even know they have it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
MM, thank you for that. So what are some of
the common like shared symptoms of STIs that people should
be on the lookout for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now here's the wild thing. I guess it's like I
really get excited about it, but not in like a
weird way, but ultimately like the science behind it is
kind of like knowing how it works, right, the epidemiology
of it. And so when we look at goannery and chlamydia,
for many people, there are no symptoms at all. It's
laying in your body, it's growing, it's doing its thing,
(08:43):
but it's also being attuned to your body or aware
of your body. One of the most common symptoms is
an abnormal discharge, and that's gonna usually come from the
urethra or maybe around the vagina, and it's something that
you have to be aware of to know that it's
at normal.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So you have to be a tuned to your body.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And then secondly, which is a sign we were talking
about earlier, which is a burning upon urination. So when
you're urinate, if there's like a tingling, itching or burning
kind of feeling during yourination, those are the most common symptoms.
Now with syphilis, which is another bacterial infection, those symptoms
(09:23):
can mimic a whole lot of things because syphilis is
a stage disease, so during the first stage, a lot
of people don't know they have it because the first
symptom is like I will use the word sore, but
most of the time when you're sore, people are like
it hurts, but it doesn't hurt. So it's really a shanker,
and it's going to appear where you became infected. So
(09:45):
if you have oral sex, it's going to be in
your mouth, you have anal sex, or vaginal sex, it's
going to be on your vaginal or your penis, or
your shaft or your testicles.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Anywhere in your anatomy.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And the interesting thing about it is that this sore
or shanker is going to go way on its own.
So you see something abnormal, you're like, wow, what is
that it doesn't hurt you, may or not put something
home remedy on it, and then it's gonna go away.
But that just means a bacteria now is basically going
(10:14):
through your body and causing more infection. So those symptoms
in the second stage could be like a rash on
your hands. It could look like eczema, It could look
like psoriasis. A real kind of not really funny story,
but when I was working as a disease investigator, my
dermatologist had diagnosed someone that I had given syphilis results
(10:35):
too as having psoriasis, and as a specialist in his field,
he looked at this skin condition and was like, that
is definitely psoriasis, but it was actually secondary rash a
syphilis that just occurred in this individual. So they also
called syphilis a great imitator, So you could have a
rash and not really know that it's actually syphiless or
(10:58):
an sci So the most common would be no symptom,
the burning upon urination and the discharge, and then it
could be different rashes or appearances on your skin that
could be presented.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
As okay doctor, bas So, given that the most common
symptom is no symptom, what kinds of things do you
think people need to know then to try to keep
themselves safe or to be able to go to a
physician or a medical professional to kind of get checked out.
What should they be looking for?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's what I was saying.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I feel like people really need to examine and look
at and be aware of their own bodies. As someone
who may have a menstrual cycle, what does the discharge
or I'm using discharge but maybe the vaginal lubrication look
like throughout your monthly cycle, how it feels, how it looks,
et cetera. Be an attuned to what your labia looks like,
(11:51):
your genitals in general for everybody, so that you can
say this spot wasn't there before and realize that you
might need to go in the biggest thing is to
normalize testing, to go in, talk to your sex partners,
to normalize testing and really normalize a diagnosis. One of
the things I've come into acceptance of and want people
(12:15):
to accept as well, is that having an STD diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Can be a part of a normal and.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Even air quotations. I guess healthy sexual development like it
could happen to you and you can also manage it.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
You can also cure it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You can also not have it happen again, and it's
part of your sexual experience and not the end of
a sexual experience or have to be something that you
feel condemned for for the rest of your life because
it can happen.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Does it happen to everybody?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
But can it happen to everybody? Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So I think having those open conversations with your doctors
and being attuned to what your body actually looks like
and feels like mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So how would you suggest somebody get started with familiarizing
themselves with their bodies.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It's good that you ask me that.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I was telling you I just finished teaching class
and we're just covering anatomy and having the conversation with
students and asking them like have they really looked at
their genitoia before? And most of them have not, and
they think of it as weird or uncomfortable, and ideally
it kind of is weird and uncomfortable, but it's your body.
(13:29):
Like we look at our faces all the time. We
probably look at our legs and arms and our hands.
I know we look at our hands a lot, and
so just looking at are there changes, Like what is
this actually supposed to look like if we think about
even when I'm teaching, I try to be as diverse
as I can in images that I use around anatomy,
(13:50):
but it's still not your anatomy, and so ultimately you
have to do that. So I encourage them to take
a mirror, spend a little time with themselves, get to
know what they look like, and even compare, not in
a they want to change your body kind of way,
but compare their bodies, like with the anatomy assignment of
(14:12):
like learning the exterior body parts so that they can
identify them for themselves. But yeah, it really takes getting
used to your own body and a level of comfort.
And I think some of our parents, even grandparents have
really fostered a sense of that and making people comfortable.
But it's still in many instances uncomfortable for them to
(14:34):
even have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So you don't always learn it in your house.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, it's interesting, doctor to ask, because I feel
like I remember somebody asking me a question like that,
like probably a professor like you asking a question like
that in undergrad and a lot of people feeling uncomfortable
and like, oh, absolutely not. We haven't done that, and
I was curious to hear if students. Now twenty plus
years later, we're feeling more comfortable, but it sounds like
you're still getting a lot of like, no, I'm not
comfortable doing that. In it you have to encourage them
(15:01):
to like actually pull out a mirror and like look
at their genitals.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I think there's this weird stigma I think, perhaps in
our households, perhaps in general society, of like why are
you looking at yourself?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Something must be wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And it's kind of like it's okay for your partner
to look but not you, And that's definitely an imbalance,
like you should be looking at it even before your
partner looks at it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Right right, So I'm curious act your bass. It feels
like maybe five to ten years ago, there was this
huge push around like the HPV vaccine. Have you seen
or has the research shown like a significant decrease in
HPV related to the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I started working on even a project to prevent HPV
or prevent cervical cancer a few years back. Wow, And
it was actually ten years ago to do that and
encouraging the use of the vaccine and no course just
like with any vaccine. We've seen this with COVID, there
are some hesitations around that, and then when you start
(16:03):
thinking about something that is going to reduce an STI
in this case, it also makes people uncomfortable because they
think you're giving someone the green light, especially young people,
because it was predominantly for individuals who are like nine
to twenty four years old, that you're encouraging sexual behavior
when many of us already know folks probably even without consent,
(16:28):
are already engaging in sexual activity.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But it's also preventive.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
And the idea around hesitation of like what in the
future are these vaccines potentially side effects, etc.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But we certainly have seen it.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I know in many states the HPV vaccine became a
part of the required immunizations for childhood immunizations, so that
it was added to that list just like.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
The other ones. And we have seen a decrease in that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I do think as e as HPV is to
transmit that we still have to keep those messages out
there that we can prevent cervical cancer or any kind
of complications were related to at least four to six
types of HPV.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Mmmm hm, you know, and just like that campaign. It
does feel like there have been years and years of
efforts to decrease the numbers of STIs and STDs, right,
but it does feel like there's still an increase. Like
you mentioned, what do you feel like it's going to
take to like finally see a decrease And what do
you make of the fact that we are still seeing
such high numbers of things like chlamity and syphilis.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
If I could use a couple of terms, like you know,
like in a period or maybe a comma, I mean
interesting enough, racism is really at the root of a
lot of this oppression, power and capitalism. And I say
that because now we have so many newer technologies, and
we also have had multiple technies where there's some things
(18:01):
that can prevent multiple things, so like it could be
pregnancy in HIV or HIV and other STIs, and so
we have something called doxy prep that is available. A
lot of people in the community, the general community may
not know about it. I think the marketing, just like
a lot of things have started in communities where let's say,
(18:25):
scientists or researchers will say are more.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
At risk, like gay men, and I think that's fair.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
But I also think we have to look at the
intersectional approaches around that and how a lot of communities
are vulnerable and so we need to promote doxy prep
equitably and inclusively. The same would be true for HIV PREP.
So the pre exposure prophylaxics are actual medications that people
(18:55):
can take to help protect them from say doxy PREP,
that will protect folks from gonerhea if they take this medication.
And then we have PREP, which is the mainstream one
where we're now seeing more Black women in particular, thinking
about you know, your work and sometimes who you're supporting
(19:16):
Black women having more exposure and access to PREP to
prevent HIV. But in the beginning, PREP wasn't fully marketed
to our community in that way, and even if it was,
it wasn't financially accessible either. So I think we have
to look at making sure when we get advances in
(19:39):
our technologies that it's available and accessible to everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I appreciate you bringing that in and clarifying, because I
was going to ask you, like, is doxy PREP the
same one? But it sounds like those are two different medications,
one for gneria and one for HIV prevention. Got it?
Got it? So continuing with that line of things, are
there other things that Black women need to be aware
of in terms of our particular risk factors for certain STIs? Like,
(20:08):
are there other things that you've seen or in your
work that you think black women need to really have
on their radar?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I do.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think that we really have to think about our
overall sexual health and ensuring that we're doing the best
that we can in terms of monitoring our overall sexual
health and wellness, whether that be anytime.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I don't say sexual health like just our health
in general.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So if we get a cold or we're really stressed out,
our immune system is going to be compromised. And just
like getting pregnant, innocence, getting an STI or STD everything
has to be just right. So it has to be
that a you're exposed to it by someone, and that
b it can actually get into your body. And then
see the part that when I'm speaking to our overall health,
(20:54):
like how is your body able to potentially fight off
this virus or this bacteria because your immune system plays
a part and whether you get affected or not as well.
And so if we can really take care of our
health being stressed out, if you already have a diagnosis
in particular for herpes. If you don't manage your stress,
(21:17):
Herpes is activated by a nervous system, and so if
you're at a state of stress, even if you're taking
medication to manage it, a lot of times you have
what we call outbreaks in herpes that you can't suppress
the outbreaks until you don't have one, And so with
one of the medications that suppresses, you have to not
(21:39):
have that outbreak. But if you're at a state of stress,
you're always in kind of an outbreak state, because you
might have an outbreak and go into recovery and then
another outbreak kind of overlaps that one, so you don't
have that space to take the medication to suppress HIV.
I remember working with a student who was in law school,
(22:01):
and I'm pretty sure that was stressful, and she was
in a long distance relationship and she had a herpes diagnosis,
and she was so frustrated. She went to our counseling
center because she really needed to manage her stress, and
in turn that was something that could help her.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Manage her herpes outbreaks as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So we really have to take care of our overall
health in general to help keep that you know, things
at bay or manageable may not prevent it, but at
least we have a strong immune system to help fight
it off and help with the recovery as well.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
More from our conversation after the break, So, I feel
like the answer to this will be a lot because
you are a sex educator. But what role do you
feel like education has in decreasing the number of STI
(23:00):
is that we typically are seeing.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think it has a huge role. I mean I
came into this work old school, pre the full Internet.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
We had like a little bit of internet, and we
had hotlines.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
People were calling from all over the United States asking
questions and questions that you think is kind of common knowledge,
but people really don't know, like how is the disease
transmitt it? What are the signs and symptoms? Where do
I even go to get tested or treatment? And those
are things I think, as someone who works as an educator,
(23:35):
take for granted because I have the answers and I've
had these conversations with people who are doing the same thing,
and so education can play a role to ensure that
people can do their best to protect themselves. When I
think about STD prevention and education, I use the term
we all know better than we do, and I can
(23:57):
also equate that to like flossing your teeth in general.
I can say if we were to think about first
hand defense for SEIS is condom use well abstinence right,
because people are always gonna say, well, if you have
the same But again, that's gonna choice people have freely
because of non consensual events, and it's not a choice
(24:17):
that's realistic for some people, and it's just not a
choice people want, period. But if we go to the
next line of defense, which would be condoms, there are
people going back to flossing teeth. Pretty much everyone knows
and has heard that a condom can't prevent pregnancy and
transmission of infection. However, there are reasons why people choose
(24:39):
not to. Everyone knows you should floss your teeth because
it's gonna help you have better dental health. But people
have reasons that they choose not to flyss even if
it's I don't have time because I'm rushing out the
door every day, so I'll brush my teeth, but I
don't floss them. They're gonna be reasons why people don't
use condoms. But through edge occasion, we can help people
(25:01):
make behavior change, and so how do I make time?
Or if I don't like the way condoms feel, how
do I make them feel better? And I'm living with
a guilt trip. Well, I'm not living, I'm recovering because
I know you're a therapist, So I'm recovering from the
guilt trip of being programmed in a prevention world that
(25:22):
used to tell people, Oh, condoms can feel just as good,
or they feel just as good, or put a little
lube on it, and that's really not true. In theory,
they can feel better, but it doesn't feel the same.
You can get some that are thin and that may
feel better, but ultimately we have to make condoms enjoyable.
(25:43):
It's like if you get a meal that you're hungry,
but it's not really satisfying. You might put a little
saracha or hot sauce on it and it's gonna make
it a little more pleasurable and enjoyable, but it's still
not what you might have wanted to taste originally.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
So you added something to it.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And I think education allows us to explore and explain
how to make things more pleasurable that are actually a
preventive effort.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
When you think about prep A.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Lot of people don't like taking medication or have a
hard time, you know, swallowing pills. But through knowing that
this is something that can help reduce HIV transmission, that's
just another bonus and relief that you don't have to
worry about as much as you would if you didn't
have that type of preventive efforts. So I think education
(26:32):
is paramount.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, I appreciate those analogies. I think that's super helpful
to really help people understand like why sometimes we don't
make the choices that we maybe know we should make.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Great.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, So I am sure that you were aware
of this, and the TVG team found this article recently fascinating.
So there has been an increase of course in like
STDs and STIs in elder care homes.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Can you talk with us a little bit about like
what is causing this spike is happening with this population?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
The biggest thing and this actually started a few years back,
like at least in my experience here in North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Won't name any.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Places, but there are articles available online should you google.
But it's really that idea of like as we grow
older that we're not sexual beings, we don't have desires
and we're not connecting. But you got to think about it.
We're still going to have feelings. We're still going to
have desire, and a lot of the centers where people
(27:30):
live in facilities, they also have opportunity, right, and so
you know, there's opportunity to actually engage in sex, and
so we don't make condoms available. I recently had a
conversation with a local department of aging to talk about
coming to speak with their residents and if staff who
(27:51):
are there about pleasure, about aging, and about safety and sexuality.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Because until we're gone, we're going to be sexual.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And the ideas that we don't provide prevention information because
we think we're out of the child very age and
so pregnancy is not of importance, but STIs still should be. Also,
there are people, even if they're not having relationship and
physical intimacy within the resident or in the facility, they
(28:23):
have people who are coming in and sex workers and girlfriends,
boyfriends whomever could actually come and visit and bring things
into the facility as well. So we really I think
the rise is not having conversations about pleasure and intimacy
as people age and then only equating risk factors for
(28:48):
sex with pregnancy prevention.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and it does feel like prevention overall has moved
away from so much like don't get pregnant, right, because
it feels like that was the focus for a very
long time. Can you talk a little bit about that
transition that you've seen.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I think people were embracing what we call sex positivity,
where there's more to healthy sexuality than disease or pregnancy prevention.
I also think, at least from a public health perspective,
and I hope this is true universally, although I know
there are challenges. Is that we have come to the
(29:25):
realization of the stigmatizing effect of some of our prevention efforts. Right,
So if you look at data and disparity in numbers
and communities of color, and I specifically think about the
black community and black women and girls being stigmatized as
being hypersexual or the ones who actually need a long
(29:46):
acting reversubal contraception versus being able to choose from the
many methods that are available that work for them. We
are moving towards and not just the things you shouldn't do,
but the things you.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Can can do.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Are encouraged to do as part of being sex positive
and experiencing pleasure. I always give credit to doctor Jocelyn Elders,
who was our first African American Surgeon General. Although she
paid the cost for advocating for a masturbation, which is
a very sex positive approach, she's left the door open
(30:23):
for people like me and others to continue talking about
it and promoting getting to know your body, doing things safely,
and another option to experience pleasure that doesn't involve someone else.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I appreciate you bringing her up because, yeah, she definitely
was not looked upon favorably. I think at the time
that was happening. Yeah, So I think something else that
people could benefit from is hearing more about how they
should take care of themselves, like post like a sexual act,
So what kinds of things should someone be doing kind
(30:58):
of immediately after sex that is like good for your health. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think a lot of people talk about urinating, so
emptying your bladder. Some people say before and after. I
think there's some conflicting things there, but urinating not necessarily
you know, having to shower, but definitely separating for a
little while, like discarding any condoms if there are sex
(31:24):
toys or any other objects being used to make sure
that they are cleaned properly, and just keeping an eye
out on again, what's happening in your body, posts intimacy,
just to make sure everything is air quotation is normal
for you in that situation. I would definitely say prior
(31:44):
to though, having those conversations with your sex partners if
you're able to. I know, sometimes someone that you might
encounter might not be a long term partner, might not
be someone you know very well, but you could still
try to approach asking the questions and not making assumptions
(32:04):
about their health. There's a level of trust there. You
have to take that into consideration. But post keeping in
touch with someone as someone who has served as a
contact tracer, well, I use that COVID language, but I
was a disease intervention investigator that we had to go
find people that other people had sex with to tell
(32:26):
them that they might have been exposed or to tell
them that they exposed someone. And so in this age
of technology, try to have people's information because it makes
it so much easier.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
As I was telling you about syphilis being one hundred
percent preventable, if someone has sex with someone and then
they go and they develop that first sign and get
tested and it's positive if they've had sex with other
people even during that time period. But they can give
the healthcare provider the information that a person can be traced,
(33:01):
contacted and given medication to prevent them from actually ever
getting syphilists themselves and giving it to someone else. So
having information, even if it's someone you don't know well,
you met on an app or whatever, and having enough
contact information should this occur, makes it easier too to
(33:24):
help prevent disease from spreading in the community.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
More from our conversation after the break, so kind of
continuing along their vein of having some of these conversations
with partners or potential partners. How and when do you
suggest someone share that they do actually have an STD.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Listen, doctor Joy.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That is a very tough question because disclosure can really
be dangerous, and so we think about disclosing an STD
experience or status, we really have to think about the
pros and the cons and the winds and the wear.
And I don't think it really depends like some people
say it depends on what the infection is or the sciard,
(34:15):
But I think it may not, because the first thing
is once you tell someone, you can't untell them, and
you can't control anytime they might involuntarily disclose your status themselves.
So that's like, I think the biggest fear that people
actually have, and so oftentimes you really have to think
about where this relationship might be going or what did
(34:39):
you do to actually prevent any type of exposure. And
I say that because if it's herpes, the moral, like
if we think about society and more moral thing, people
are like, yeah, you should tell people you have herpes,
And I think there's a level of truth to that,
but I also think there's a consequence to that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
And so if you think about.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
The science of it, if you're not experiencing an outbreak,
if you're on suppressive therapy, and adding if you use
a barrier method, then the likelihood of you transmitting that
is very slim. Saying would be if you're like on
prep or something like that. But it becomes tricky because
(35:22):
the moral tends to outweigh the science. So we have
something with HIV in particular, called you equals you. So
if someone's living with HIV and they're on their meds,
they are in good health. They are what we considered undetectable,
so there's very small trace amounts of HIV in their
(35:42):
blood and body fluids, then they are very much likely
to be untransmittable. However, we wouldn't tell everyone to say,
go out and have the type of sex that would
cause the exchange of body fluids. But also we know
if you're on medication and you're undetectable, the likelihood of
(36:04):
transmission is also going to be low. So there's the science,
and then there's the moral aspect. I don't know where
the to meet is really based on the individual and
also knowing that there are risk associated with disclosing, but
there's so many benefits because a lot of people are
becoming more educated, so they wouldn't be as fearful of
(36:27):
having physical intimate experiences with you because they know how
to protect themselves. And so that's the piece where we
were talking earlier. Education comes into play because now the
more educated I am, if I were someone who let's
say we're living with herpes, the better I can educate
you while I'm disclosing my status so you fully understand
(36:52):
where we are. And then also normalizing this is a
part of a life experience.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I appreciate you breaking that I wasn't even aware of
all of those, like, Okay, the risk is like much
smaller if X, Y and Z are in place. So
I appreciate you sharing that with us. And it does
feel like some of those conversations are probably better had
with people that you know, maybe a little better, right,
because it feels like there needs to be some level
of trust to even be able to have that kind
(37:19):
of conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And I know there's some advocates who are put it
out on the line and communicate immediately, but again like
they're at a different level in space than potentially, you know,
the average person out in the community and what that
risk look like for them.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Doctor mass, I wonder if you have any suggestions or
things you could offer to somebody who maybe has had
a diagnosis of an incurable STD or an STI and
maybe see themselves as like damaged goods, so to speak,
anything that you could say there.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It really makes me sad when I hear that, because
I've seen that time and time again with individuals, even
someone concerned.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
With herpes and being able to.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Become pregnant and a mom and she is a mom now,
so that's amazing. But having that conversation early on, she
was given a diagnosis. So this is the other thing
about our peers in the healthcare setting, who are more
the medical actual providers in a sense versus some of
the educators, is that she was given this diagnosis but
(38:25):
not given any additional information about what does that mean
to have a herpes diagnosis, and so therefore she just
assumed that she wouldn't be able to concede. So that
whole stigma around being damaged, like now I have this condition,
I can't conceive. So I think the advice is to
(38:47):
learn as much as you can about your condition. But
then there are so many support groups for persons living
with HIV, persons who've experienced HPV, and person living with
herpes who can actually educate you on navigating kind of
(39:07):
a new normal in a sense, because you're experience in
a different space with a diagnosis, and there's life after
a diagnosis, and there's great sex after a diagnosis, and
really understanding again the science of the condition that you
have so that it doesn't interfere with the pleasure and
(39:29):
your sexual experiences. So I would tell that person to
become educated to feel the fields because it can be scary,
it can be sad, it can be alienating, like feeling
like you're the only person out there. But given how
common many of these conditions are, knowing that you're not
(39:50):
alone and there are support groups and resources available, but
to really understand that it can be hard and knowing
they're going to be ups and downs. A lot of
times people are impacted with their mental health because it
could cause like onsets of depression and maybe even anxiety
around the diagnosis. But that there's definitely a way to
(40:14):
have a very fulfilling life and a very fulfilling sex life.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
So what kinds of conversations should people be having with
themselves and with partners or potential partners about protected sex
versus unprotected sex.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
For example, if you are living with HIV, and really
even if you think about other chronic conditions, your immune
system can be compromised. So using protection really is about
you first, because you're able to protect yourself and it's
okay to be selfish, and that way is like, listen.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I'm not even worried about you, I'm worried about me.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
So therefore we're going to use this method or I'm
going to be on prep, toxi prep, whatever it may be, condoms,
dental dams, etc. So it's okay in that regard to
be selfish, and I think for others it's okay to
be caring and say it's also about us, like it's
about me first, but then it's about us if we
want to have a fulfilling sex life, not worrying about
(41:15):
infecting one another with something that could be important. The
other part that I'm leaning into as well as someone
who's been so prevention minded, is understanding that relationships change
and as we grow and we build trust with one another,
that having condomless sex isn't the worst thing that can
(41:38):
happen because people.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Were already doing it. They're not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Becoming pregnant or getting a diagnosis. But it takes time
to build that trust and vulnerability, and for some people
they may never get there. I think we probably know
plenty of people who are having condomless sex for a
range of different types of relationships and it hasn't been detrimental.
And so while we still want to promote the use
(42:04):
of condoms, barriers in any other prevented methods, we also
know that some people get into that place in their
relationship where there's an opportunity I'm going to use the
word to relax it or understand and connect with their
partner in such a way that that may not be
a choice that they're still willing to make for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So you've mentioned several times after bands this idea of
how technology has really impacted what we know and what
we can learn about SCIS and STDs. I'm curious to
hear a couple of different things. So I want to
hear how technology has maybe made your job maybe easier
and more difficult. And I also want to hear about
(42:49):
social media now is a part of the landscape that
probably wasn't a part of your job maybe what ten
fifteen years ago, And so I also am curious to
hear your thoughts about like current conversations you're here about
STIs on social media.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
So I think the first thing in the advances in
technology has been a like the dating apps being open
to the federal government as well as state and local
government programs being able to provide educational and informational like
(43:23):
commercials or marketing and tips on safe sex, like I
remember Bumble was one that was open to it, and
some of the other ones, and you know, meeting with
app developers to figure out like how to even create
something that could be transferable as educational commercials or infomercials
(43:45):
or slots marketing, so to speak. On these apps and
apps being open to it and understanding, you know, and
sometimes we're in a crisis mode around that. But then
even with the app developers, we have some apps that
are available where maybe you're a little hesitant to you
find out you have an STD, you get a diagnosis
(44:08):
and you really don't want to confront this person, or
maybe you don't even have all that person's information, but
you can put that person's information in an app and
a message will be sent to them that could potentially
protect your anonymity or if you want to disclose who
you are, but not you having to do it yourself,
but this app sends a message. So we have new
(44:30):
apps like that that can notify people once you put
your information in if they need to encourage them to
go get testing. So I think those are some of
the positive advancements. Some of the challenges are still the
TikTok experts, you know, like TikTok it's an amazing place
to get information a lot of social media is, but
(44:52):
there's so many people who are providing misinformation that as
educators and trained professionals, we're having to counter where they
are and people have a large following gives them way
more credibility than someone who's either working in this work
or you know, studying and researching it as well, So
(45:15):
you have to counter that and being able to reach
out to some of those influencers to let them know
when information is accurate or not. It seems like many
of my colleagues will get banned as credible sources than
those who are not credible, Like after my Instagram taken
(45:37):
away and I was like, way, but I'm doing good work.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
So because you also are you know, heavily embedded in
working with students, what kinds of conversations are you seeing
them have about SCIS, either on social media or just
even in person.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Well, are been fortunate, you know, here in North Carolina
to work with some students in particular who are open
and chouraging their peers to have these conversations. So at
my school, we have a peer education group that's been
established since about two thousand and one, providing education, coordinating testing, events.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'm at an HBCU and a lot of.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Our HBCUs have engaged in programming similar to this to
educate and or connect with their local health department. So
resources beyond student health is available to students, and you
can see that on other majority campuses as well. I
think our students are open to it. I love teaching
(46:34):
my class. I get to ask them beyond even STDs,
like what are some of the topics people want to know?
And people in the last few semesters have talked about
what it means to be sex positive actually being activists
around sexual health and access to STD service as well
as reproductive services and reproductive justice. So I think what
(46:59):
we're seeing is students want to be informed, but they
don't want to be oppressed. And I think, as a
student who felt like there was a little bit more
of oppression and judgment and thinking about balancing respectability politics,
our student population I think is looking or in general,
not just my campus, are looking for ways to be
(47:22):
sexually liberated and safe at the same time. And they
want valid, readily available resources to be educated on and
how to educate their peers. If I tell my class,
oh so and such is on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
You should follow them because they talk about this.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I can reach out to that person and say how
many new followers did you get today? And they they
I'll say, I think those are probably my students for
my students' friends, because they want to have it readily available.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So you mentioned earlier support groups for people that they
can join, like if they have a new diagnosis, can
you share any resources that might be helpful for people
if they have a new diagnosis or they just want
more information.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
One of my favorite people to follow is Courtney Brain.
He leads Something Positive for Positive People, which is a
support network and resource entity for persons living with herpes,
and I think some of what they offer actually can
apply in general. Doctor Gabrielle Evans as well as the
(48:30):
Minority Sex Report, they also provide information Doctor Evans shares
about her own personal experiences living with herpes as well.
The American Sexual Health Association, which is actually our oldest
US based sexuality education organization. Proud that it's right here
in North Carolina and I used to work there. That's
(48:53):
what the hotline I was totally about was established. But
now they you know, online web resources and support groups
as well as I'm gonna say virtual appointments with providers
who specialize in HIV or HPV or herpes treatment and support.
(49:16):
So there are a lot of different places where people
can actually get resources if they're navigating a diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Thank you for that, And what kinds of suggestions would
you give to family members or friends who may need
to support someone who has just gotten a new diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Now you're in my personal business, because you know, as
an educator, I was just thinking about a relative who
had gotten a diagnosis and it was almost like they
forgot what I've ever said to them, or maybe it
didn't hit then because I don't know, maybe because they
didn't have.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
To deal with it.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
But just reevaluating letting people know how things are transmitted.
I think about like a person having an HIV diagnosis
and being invited over to dinner and getting like paper
plate in the disposable fork and spoon, and how awful
that felt for them. So I think family and friends
(50:14):
need to be as educated so that when something does
happen in the family environment that they can remain supportive
and fully understand that you can take precautions. You should
take precautions, but you don't have to go to an
extreme and you don't have to really reinforce the stigma
of being diseased or whatever. I think also understanding that
(50:38):
sometimes so this is when I said, you're in my business.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Like for me, sometimes I'm just your cousin.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I'm not the Southern sexologist and nobody cares. And so
it's important to know that education is available. It might
be available in your family, but at least get it
from somewhere. And then also so I think what I
try to do in my family or trying to do,
is to break the generational secrecy and stigma and shame
(51:08):
around sex in general. Just being open to say, like,
we don't want the next generation to feel as lost
as we may have felt, so thinking about liberating being
sexual free and not experiencing some of the issues and
challenges we had to experience by actually sharing our stories
(51:29):
in context right and within boundaries so that it's a
learning experience for the generation behind us.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Thank you so much for that. You have given us
so much today, Doctor Baz. If you had to kind
of distill all of what we've talked about to like
three major things you'd like for people to walk away
from this conversation, knowing what would they be.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
I would want people to walk away with the desire
to really learn more about their bodies, to learn more
about the different infections in how they work, including the
prevention of but also what it's like living with a diagnosis,
(52:10):
and then most importantly, like I just said, sharing anything
that you learn with the next generation and even like
your peers and your friends and family right now who
might be the same age issue.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
So where can we stay connected with you, doctor Vans?
What is your website as well as any social media
channels you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Sure? So my website is www.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Tanyambass dot com and I'm on Instagram at doctor Tanya MBAs.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
So you can slide in the DMS if you need appropriately.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
And can we find you on TikTok as well?
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And no, I'm there, I'm a voyeur. I am a
voyeur on TikTok, but I am there as Tanya Vass.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yes, perfect, perfect. We will be short to include all
of that in the show notes. Thank you so much,
doctor Bass. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I'm so glad doctor Bass was able to join us
to share her expertise for this episode. To learn more
about her and her work, visit the show notes at
Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three twenty six,
and don't forget to visit Sexpositive September dot com for
all the other incredible conversations we've had this month. And
remember to text two of your girls right now to
(53:28):
share this episode. If you're looking for a therapist in
your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls
dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue
digging into this topic or just be in community with
other sisters, come on over and join us in the
Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet, designed
just for black women. You can join us at community
(53:50):
dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced
by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was
done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing
this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
(54:12):
What's the reviews for sisterhood? Heels are rolling in and
I simply cannot stop smiling at the Hot Girl books
on Instagram shared finish reading this warm hug of a
book last night, and while it made me once a
hug my sister friend so bad. Sisterhood Heels is a
beautiful guide on how we as black women can use
(54:33):
our community and friends to aid in our healing process.
Thank you so much for the beautiful review. Have you
grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself and a
friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com
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