November 8, 2023 • 42 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
In case you missed it, we’re diving back into our catalog to get you all prepared for the upcoming holiday season. This week we’re circling back on our conversation about “blending families’ with Jordan A. Madison, licensed clinical marriage and family therapist and contributing writer to the Therapy for Black Girls blog.
Whether you’re bringing a plus one to this year’s family dinner or planning to spend the holidays with the cousins you haven’t seen in years, there is one thing for certain, blending new family members with old traditions can be tricky During our conversation we discussed:
- Some of the more common feelings associated with blending families for the first time
- What about the holidays overall can cause tension amongst family members
- How you can maintain your wellness practices while other people are staying in your home or you’re staying in someone else’s
- Telling your family you’re not coming home for the holidays
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three point thirty two of
the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into
our conversation after a word from our sponsors. We're diving
back into our catalog to get you all prepared for
the upcoming holiday season. This week, we're circling back on
(01:21):
our conversation to talk about blending families with Jordan, a
Madison licensed clinical marriage and family therapist and contributing writers
to the Therapy for Black Girls blog. Whether you're bringing
a plus one to this year's family dinner or planning
to spend the holidays with the cousins you haven't seen
in years. There's one thing for certain, Blending new family
members with old traditions can be tricky, as of spending
(01:44):
the holidays with your family isn't hard enough. In this
week's session, Jordan and I explore some of the more
common feelings associated with blending families for the first time.
What about the holidays overall can cause tension among family members.
How you can maintain your wellness practices while other people
are staying in your home or while you're staying with
(02:04):
someone else and telling your family you're not coming home
for the holidays. If something resonates with you while enjoying
our conversation, please share with us on social media using
the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in
the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You
can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com.
(02:25):
Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us again.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Jordan, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I feel like you are a special holiday guest
coming in to talk about all things holidays. Last time
we talked about Jingle Jingle, which is still one of
my favorites for sure, but this year we're gonna get
into something a little different. So we have a handful
of community members who are planning to blend families for
the first time this holiday season. So some people are
(02:55):
like meeting their significant others family members for the first time.
Other people are like hosting the holidays for the first time,
and maybe in laws are coming together. And so I
wanted to have you on to talk about how we
can really take care of ourselves during this time, but
also if you could share some helpful tips for people
who are preparing for this moment in their lives.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Of course, holiday season is extremely exciting, but it can
also be nerve wracking and stressful for a lot of people,
especially when it comes to blending families. So definitely can
understand that.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Mm hmmm. So what would you say are some of
the common feelings that are associated with blending families for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So one I think is just like nervousness. Is this
person gonna like me? Is their family going to accept me?
Do we have some of the same traditions? Are we
going to like the same food, the same mixes? Things
like that, And I think other things come up can
be just you know, sometimes there's maybe insecurities or comparing
your family to their Sometimes I think sometimes they can
(03:54):
get a little like, my family does it this way
and your family does it that way? Do I have
to concede and given? Do I stick to what I'm doing?
And I think for couples, especially for the first time,
it can sometimes be a little nerve wracking, like how
do we assert ourselves as a couple in this space together?
Because typically when we go to our family of origin,
(04:15):
we kind of fall back into being not the little
kid per se, but we fall back into whatever role
we usually have in our family. And so when you're
adding another person, it can feel a little like how
do I navigate still being the baby of the family,
but also, now here's my partner and I need to
assert myself and make sure that you respect our boundaries,
(04:37):
you respect our relationship.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's a whole word there. So how would you say?
How would you say that people can go about best
preparing themselves? So are there certain conversations they should have,
like what kinds of things do they need to do
to prepare themselves for this?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So the first thing that comes to mind is having
like a code word. So maybe if things feel a
little tense or get too hectic, or you need a break,
like you and your partner having a special word phrase
maybe gesture that signals, hey, we need to regroup. I
think the biggest thing to remember wind blending families and
during the holiday season is that you and your partner
(05:13):
are a team. So you two are approaching this together.
It's going to be nerve wracking for both of you. Obviously,
I do think having conversations would be helpful first, and
maybe those conversations look like, are there any family dynamics
that I should know about? Or are there certain things
that maybe your parents don't like or that make them uncomfortable,
any topics that are like hot topics in your family? Right,
(05:36):
Because for some families, especially given the recent political climates,
some families don't discuss politics, right, Like, are there certain
things that we just stray away from or that I
should know not to bring up? Because maybe in my
family I don't think it's that big of a deal,
but in your family it can cause World War three?
So what are some things that I need to be
aware of? And then I think having conversations even after
(05:59):
the dinner or after the holidays, of like, how was
that for you, what are things that you noticed, Because
I do think seeing your partner around their family helps
you to understand more family dynamics. It helps you understand
maybe why your partner does certain things or sees things
a certain way, And so I think a check in
before and after is really helpful.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So what if I noticed something in this blended family
holiday that I'm like, oh, I don't know if I
like that about my partner, Like, oh, that's interesting. I
didn't anticipate that he would behave this way. So how
would you have that conversation, like as a post check in, Like,
what are some ways to maybe point out like some
concerns maybe that you noticed as a part of that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I would definitely say to wait until after the holidays, right,
because bringing it up in the middle of it, I
don't know if that would be received as well. You
two are both probably stressed and things like that. I
would say bringing it up after and approaching it with curiosity, right,
So instead of a why did you act like this
or you were acting funny? I didn't like that, maybe
like hey, I noticed that when your mom walked through
(07:05):
the door, you seem to get a little choie or
you didn't seem as assertive as you usually are. What's
that about? Or is that something that you notice too,
Is that something that usually comes up for you because
maybe it's something that they did because they're also nervous,
or maybe it is a family dynamic that you're like,
we need to kind of talk through this, right, And
so I think that approaching things with curiosity, with like
(07:26):
this is what I've noticed. Has anyone else in your
family noticed this too, because sometimes when we're a part
of our own family, we don't always see the patterns
or the different nuances, whereas someone on the outside looking
in is able to call some stuff out Obviously, approaching
it with there's no judgment, this is just what I'm noticing,
(07:47):
And maybe your partner is like, yeah, you know what,
that does happen a lot and this is why, or
it's like, wow, no one's ever told us that before,
and I didn't realize that, and maybe there are some
new things that I need to do and do differently.
So approaching it with curiosity and being gentle for sure,
and then as the partner hearing it, trying to also
(08:07):
remind yourself it's not a personal attack against your family.
It's not saying that something that you did was completely wrong.
It's just you two are kind of starting to navigate.
We've been a couple and we've been used to just
us in this bubble. What do we look like as
a couple when we're interacting with you know, our families
or our friends as well.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
M hm. So you mentioned earlier that you know, even
though the holidays can be an exciting time, it can
also be very stressful. So what are some of the
things that you think often need to tension in family
members around the holidays.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And my experience, at least what has come up sometimes
has been people have different feelings around the holidays. So
for some people, the holidays can bring up grief or
some sadness, right because you're reminded of maybe people that
you no longer have with you, or your feeling maybe
alone and things like that. And if you're with a
partner who's just super happy and excited about the holiday,
(09:00):
there can be some tension because your partner's like, what's
wrong with you? Like why are you so sad or miserable?
But you're like, hey, I'm going through something and I
need some patience too. So I think a big thing
is just people's views on holidays. I think the expectation
is that everyone just loves the holidays and it makes
them feel all warm inside, because I do love the
holidays and it makes me feel warm inside. But understanding
(09:22):
that that's not the exact same experience for everyone, and
so having understanding around that, I think is a big deal.
Another thing that comes to mind with tension around the holidays,
I would say, is certain boundaries. It can be really
hard to set boundaries, especially with loved ones, especially as
black women. We feel like I owe this person this,
(09:43):
or it'd be selfish if I say no, or I
have to do this. I have to handle everything and
do it myself. And so when there's that added pressure,
then you might feel resentful or you might feel like
you're doing everything and you might snap at others or
whatever the case may be, and that can cause some tension.
And also just the expectations. Right, if there are expectations
(10:04):
that people have of you that feel really heavy, like
you're always the host, or you always do certain things.
And let's say you're tired or you just need a
break or you want help. You don't mind doing it,
but you don't want to be the only one that
can also cause a lot of tension.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I appreciate you bringing up the idea of grief around
the holidays, I think especially against our current backdrop, right,
you know, so we know that we have lost so
many people to COVID and just other things, you know,
in the past couple of years. And I think for
a lot of people this may be their first year
maybe gathering again if they are right, like and so,
can you say a little bit about like how to
(10:40):
manage grief or like how to keep expectations level as
we are approaching the holiday season for people maybe this
is their first holiday season after losing someone.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say to give yourself grace.
Grief comes up unexpectedly, it comes in waves. You have
to allow yourself to feel how you're feeling. Do not
force yourself to be all happy, go lucky and smiley
if that's really just not how you're feeling. Obviously, there's
other beliefs where people say, like sometimes you just have
(11:11):
to fake it till you make it to put a
smile on your face. But I think it's really important
that you surround yourself with at least one or two
people who know and understand that you might not react
or behave the same way that you typically do during
the holiday season because you are processing the loss of someone,
or the loss of ideas, the loss of you know,
there's a lot of things that have changed in the
(11:32):
past two and a half years, right, So I would
say surrounding yourself with people who also get it and
don't expect you to just move through it and be okay,
but that allow you time to process it because typically
when you have a space to cry it out or
have a moment, then you feel like, Okay, I'm not
(11:53):
holding it in anymore, and then you're able to maybe
go back and enjoy a family gathering or you're able
to go back and something. But when you feel like
you're trying to keep it in and bottle it up,
then I think it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Thank you. So we have a couple of scenarios that
our community sent in. So we told them that we're
gonna be talking about blending families for the holidays and
ask them what questions they had, and so we have
a couple of scenarios that I want to share with
you to see you have some feedback or tips that
you would offer them. Okay, So the first one is
my biological parents have been divorced for over twenty years,
(12:28):
and during the time, I've always had to split my
time between them. On Christmas Day, Dad and stepmom in
the morning and mom in the evening. Now that I
have my own family, I'd like to invite all my
parents over so we can spend quality time together. I'm
nervous about bringing it up and even more nervous about
making it happen.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, what comes to mind? Because my parents are not together,
they do get along and things like that, but I
always have to go back and forth, and I'm always
making a joke like, well do I have to pop
out a kid for everyone to come see me? Because
this is a lot. So I definitely understand then, like
wanting everyone to come to you because it's difficult always
having to split, right, And so I think having a conversation,
(13:07):
hopefully they've been divorced for a long enough time that
maybe the focus is I want to spend this time
with both of you, and I want you both to
be in the same space. You don't have to sit
next to each other, you don't have to be all
buddy buddy. But what I do want is both of
my parents to be with me as I enter this
new stage, as I've started my own family. If there's
(13:28):
grandkids in the mixed grandparents love their grandkids. So if
you focus on the kids really want to be able
to have their grandma and grandpa there, hopefully that can
soften it a bit too. But reminding them that what's
really important is just having the quality time spend. They
don't have to interact necessarily, they don't have to act
(13:48):
as if everything is okay, but they can at least
be cordial, and that's really all you're asking for.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So I'm curious, Johan, you know, I'm thinking about, like
when my husband and I got married, like the conversations
around like Okay, how are we doing how now even
before we had kids, and what we've decided on is
switching back and forth for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Right, But
I'm wondering in your work, because you do a lot
of work with couples, are there other conversations that people
are having or other arrangements people are making around the
holidays that might be helpful for other people to think about.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I think it's really also really about the expectations that
you have right, because maybe it's easier for everyone to
come to you. I also think it depends on logistics
where people are located. But I think certain things that
are working out is just one year we do this,
next year we do that, like switching back and forth.
That seems to be the consensus what a lot of
(14:38):
people do and what's fair for other people they decide.
I had one couple I was thinking of. Her family
was like in the Virgin Islands, and so I think
Thanksgiving was really important to her family, and then Christmas
because her husband's birthday was near them and that's just
their holiday, right and there's no pressure about we go
back and forth or whatever the case may be. So
(14:59):
I think it it depends on what are the holidays
that are important. Another thing that's been helpful and what
I've heard is maybe it's not always about the exact day.
So for some families, maybe Christmas is a big deal.
For other families, like I know for my uncle and
his wife her family, Christmas Eve is what's really important.
(15:21):
So if you have certain things where it's like we
don't need to meet on the exact same day, but
as long as it's within the timeframe, of the holidays,
maybe we do something like instead of a Christmas party
or a Christmas dinner, we do a New Year's Eve dinner,
or we do a Black Friday dinner instead of actually Thanksgiving.
So I think it's mainly about like what are the
(15:43):
expectations and what day is really important? Because for some
they're like, the day is still the same as long
as we still connect have family, It doesn't have to
be on the twenty fourth of November. What if we
do on the twenty eighth, you know, and what works
better for everyone else? Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So you know, the other thing that this scenario made
me think of, and you kind of talked about this too,
is like creating new traditions, right, you know, so they
are the traditions that come from my family of origins.
But then, like you mentioned, like a lot of times,
once kids enter the picture, then there begins to be
a reimagining of what the holidays look like. And so
what kinds of like thoughts are things might you offer
(16:18):
to couples who are thinking about creating their own traditions.
So let's say I want to have dinner at the
house with maybe just the kids, but I don't maybe
want grandparents there, right, like I only wanted to be
a nuclear family. What kinds of guidelines would you offer
for like making those kinds of decisions?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So I would say, each partner writing like what they
would like, what's non negotiable versus what has some wiggle
room and finding some middle ground, some middle area because
maybe it's I don't want the grandparents involved, I just
want us, And your partner is saying dinner is really important.
What if we have a big Christmas breakfast that's just
(16:55):
us and then for dinner we go to my parents' house,
right Like? What if that would be a happy car
from us? So I think it's important to find solutions
that where both partners feel heard, both partners feel this
is what's important to me. And then knowing yourself, what
is a non negotiable like these are traditions that have
to be passed down versus what are some areas where
(17:18):
I have wigo room? And this is also why I
think premarital counseling is really helpful, because it allows you
to think about what do we want our life to
look like, how do we want to celebrate certain things?
How do we want to handle these things before they
come up and cause tension. Let's think about it. Obviously,
you don't necessarily know exactly how you're going to handle
(17:38):
things until you're in the situation. But I think if
there's certain values, certain traditions that you know your partner
really cares about and their family really cares about, you
can have that conversation even before the holidays come up.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, because ideally you would want to have these conversations
before it's time to send out the advice, right, because
then the tension in the stress does get a little higher.
So you offering premarital counseling is an opportunity because I
think there's a lot of misconceptions about premierital therapy, right.
It's like, yeah, if we're going to therapy already, like
we're doomed kind of things exactly. But that is the
space where you're having these kinds of conversations so that
(18:12):
you can't avoid You just don't think about it until
it's holiday time and you're like, oh, I didn't know
that was important to.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You, exactly. And even when I say premarital, I just
mean pre marriage. It doesn't even have to be that
you're engaged. I know for some people they're like, if
we're already in therapy and we're not even engaged yet,
what is the problem. But to your point, it doesn't
always have to be that there's a problem when you
go to therapy. A lot of times therapy can be
and should be preventative. It can be conversations about how
(18:40):
we want to handle these things, learning skills and tools,
instead of going to therapy when there's already been years
of resentment, years of problems, and then it's like, I
don't like this person, I don't know if we want
to be together, you know. So having these discussions and
thinking about it beforehand can definitely be helpful. Obviously, when dating,
I think it's you don't know until you start to
get into like dating seriously with that person. So if
(19:02):
you're dating someone and this is the first time that
you're meeting their family or blending families, I would just
say going into it with an open experience. Dating is
all about learning your partner, learning what works for you
and what doesn't. So being observant, not judgmental, there's a difference,
but just being open to seeing what parts of the
(19:24):
family impacted your partner, what made them you know, who
you want to be with today and things that you
learn and things like that. I think the assumption is
always there might be tension, but you'd be surprised because
some families can be very opening and very welcoming and
you can have a lot of fun. So going in
with an open mind. M h.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So this is a perfect segue into the scenario number two. Okay,
so this one is my fiance's parents are flying out
this holiday season to meet my parents for the first time.
I'm nervous because my family doesn't have a traditional Christmas.
My parents own their own business, and because they work
so much, we don't celebrate together like other families are
accustomed to. We eat dinner at eight pm and might
(20:02):
not open presents until ten. I want to show my
future in laws a good time, but I'm concerned that
our holiday traditions won't cut it in comparison to their
more traditional type of fun.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
What comes to mind is you want to show them
a good time so it can be like this is
how we do it over here, and it's still fun.
We're still doing the same things, it's just later in
the day. So maybe it's like during the day we
watch movies or we do other stuff and then we
have a late dinner and then we open the presence,
and especially if there's not little kids. Usually little kids
are the only ones that are waking up at the
(20:33):
kracodot over presents, So if there's no little kids in
the mix, it can be a very exciting like, no,
it's not traditional, but this is our tradition and we
welcome you to it. This is something that has worked
for us, maybe explaining like this is why it has
become this way. It's not that we don't care about Christmas.
This is just what works for us, and we invite
(20:55):
you to you know, half fun hour way. And so
I know for some people, I want to say, my
family would sometimes do like a movie day. My family
loves a Christmas story. I don't, but they do, and
so it's always on and things like that. So maybe
it's like having a movie day or doing something before
the presence, but giving them still a fun time. And
if they're visiting, maybe it's taking them around different places
(21:18):
in the area. I don't know where exactly they'd be
going to, but a lot of places have like lights
or certain things that you do around Christmas time. So
maybe it's we go out to dinner. We do these
things late and then once it's dark, we go we
take a drive around and see the lights, or we
do other things where it's still just as fun. It
just doesn't have to be the chronological order of what
(21:40):
they expect.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Mm hm. Yeah, And I wonder if this might not
be an opportunity for this couple to like start some
of their own traditions, right, or maybe a way to
incorporate some of the families the other families traditions. You know,
so if they do more daytime activities, like are there
things that they can do in the daytime before dinner, right,
So maybe that's like baking things or decorating something, or
it might be an opportunity to kind of start some
(22:02):
new stuff or to kind of blend both of the
family traditions.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes, like maybe decorating the tree. Obviously people might expect
that the tree will be decorated before Christmas, but that
could be something where you frame it as we wanted
this to be something we all do together, so we
save decorating the tree for all of us to do it.
Or baking is a good one. Decorating ornaments, yeah, ornaments,
gingerbread houses. If you're into that. You know, there's so
(22:27):
many Christmas activities that you can do, and so just
approaching it with again curiosity, but also it can be
a fun experience, right, It doesn't have to be exactly
what everyone is used to. And that's also how you
can frame it as me and my fiance is we
are starting this new life together. We appreciate this aspect
(22:47):
of our traditions on this side, and we appreciate this
aspect of traditions on this side, and this is our
way of like remixing it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
More from our conversation after the break. All right, our
third scenario. I'm a single mother and I really want
my child to be able to spend the holidays with
(23:16):
her siblings. Her father has two other children with two
different mothers, and I think it would be really fun
for us all to get the kids together to do something.
I'm nervous because there's tension among the parents, but I
want to figure out how we can blend families to
make these memories for our kids.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh that's beautiful. Yeah, I would say it seems like
I'm imagining the tension maybe between the moms and the dad.
Don't know for sure, but if she's not feeling there's
tension between her and anyone, maybe reaching out of I
think this would be a great idea for the kids.
I want to do this thing. I want to get
all the kids together so they can celebrate. If you
feel uncomfortable in the space. Again, I'm not sure what
(23:53):
the relationship is, but if you trust me, you can
drop your kid off if you don't want to stay.
But I have these things planned or I want us
to have a movie night, or bake cookies or do
something where the kids can spend time together, because even
though we are not with this man anymore, or even
though we have differences or we disagree, our children should
be the priority and we want to make sure that
(24:15):
they feel included, but also like they have each other right,
And especially if she's a single mom and say it's
just her and her child, you want to make sure
that your child has like fun things to be around.
He or she is not the only child in the situation,
and so that could be I'm sure the goal of
making sure you're spending time with your siblings, you're spending
time with people that are your age, and it being
(24:37):
fun and hopefully the moms are in agreement, and I
would see that as a really big effort to put
differences aside and really just focus on the betterment of
the kids, because I think blended families obviously can happen.
The parents just have to be able to remember that
the children are the priority and not get too involved
(24:58):
with their ego or their hurt or any feelings that
come up for them.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Mm hmm, yeah, And I think I agree with you.
I think that this would be a beautiful scenario, you know,
if they're able to pull this off. And I see
this as something happening either Christmas Eve or maybe like
a day or two before, because I would imagine, you know,
everybody has their own individual families that they may want
to do things with, but it could be a cool
kind of like yearly tradition that they get together every
(25:23):
year two days before Christmas and like have a sleepover
with matching pajamas and all the moms get together and
like do decorations, and they have presence that they know
they open like from each other, and like, I think
that that actually would be a beautiful kind of offering.
And like you mentioned, if there's somebody like one of
the other moms where there's not tension with could they
open the invitation? This could even be a great way
(25:45):
to eat some of that tension, right, Like, I know
there's been issues between us in the past, but this
almost is an olive branch. I think of recentering the kids,
like you mentioned, which should be the priority.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And obviously there's similarities if you two or three have
chosen to have a child, but all so with this
one person. Maybe there's certain things that you all enjoy
doing with that person that maybe you have similarities. But
the biggest similarity is that you all are mothers, right,
and you most likely want to prioritize your kid and
make them feel that they are a part of something.
(26:17):
I think sometimes tension comes, especially with blended families, where
it can feel like this kid gets more than this kid,
or this person gets more. So if you focus on
I want us all to be together. I want us
all to do something. Maybe the kids have a movie night.
Maybe we as the moms, we have some hot chocolate
or some wine. Not condoning alcoholism, but you know, we
(26:37):
do something that's just us and that we have fun
and we make space for the children. Or maybe it's
after Christmas and the children get to bring all their
toys together and play together or something like that.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Mm hmmmmm, Yeah, I think that could be a very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, and a tradition like they could keep going for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
All Right, So one final scenario. Okay, so this one says,
I'm spending Thanksgiving with my dad's side of the family
this year. I barely know that side of the family,
and I'm nervous because I've always felt like my mom
discouraged us from spending time with them because they're a
little ratchet. However, I want to know my people, and
though I'm almost forty, I still want to try. I
feel crazy asking people what their names are, but this
(27:17):
is where we are. I'm embarrassed that I don't know
them better.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing to do is own that,
and not own it as though it's your fault, but
own it as Unfortunately I didn't get the experience to
grow up with you all. So I do feel bad
for not knowing this, but I really do want to
learn now. And in my opinion, it's never too late.
As long as you have breath in your body and
you were able to meet people and do things, that's
(27:42):
never too late. And I think that's beautiful that you're
still choosing to spend that time even if it feels
awkward or uncomfortable, and ideally hopefully they would be welcoming
in the idea of it wasn't you who as a kid,
you weren't choosing what you were doing or who you
were spending time with, and now you're making this choice
to spend time with us and get to know us,
(28:04):
and we really appreciate it. Obviously. Again, I think, especially
in the black community, there can be the differences in
like how we appear black people as a culture. There's
a spectrum. So if she is saying or defining them
as a little more ratchet, I imagine maybe she's wondering
that it might feel uncomfortable or they might think that
she's bougie or snobby or whatever the case may be.
(28:26):
And so again with openness, with curiosity, but also just
being transparent of this is how I do things, or
this is how I was raised, and I wasn't able
to meet you all or have these experiences, but I
really want to have these experiences now, and please tell
me what I can. I know for myself. Sometimes if
I'm speaking with my grandparents or I'm wanting to gain
(28:48):
family information. I'll say, is it okay if I record this?
I really want to you know, remember this, or take
lots of pictures or whatever the case may be. So
I think going into it, obviously you're going to be
nervous recognizing it's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong,
and you're using this opportunity to learn more and to
be a part of this family and add to your
(29:10):
extended family, and so approaching it with excitement as well.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I would add to that if you're on Facebook.
I think Facebook has a lot of downfalls, but one
of the upsides that I think a lot of family
members are often on Facebook, and so it's very possible
that you can do a lot of research before you
even go, Right, I don't know who cousins are and
you know, so that may be helpful and may help
you to feel a little more comfortable in the space,
so that you know whose name is what.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I would also suggest maybe like finding one person that
you're feeling closest to, So is there a cousin or
somebody on your dad's side who you can do like
some prep sessions with right, Okay, So I'm wanting to
do more of this. Tell me who this is, what's
the story here? You know, is there any kind of
drama in the background that I need to be aware of,
So getting yourself ready, I think for the situation, because
I agree with you, like it wasn't necessarily her fault
(29:59):
that she didn't necessarily grow up with them. But I
think going into it with curiosity and saying I want
to do this now, maybe even apologizing like I'm sorry
it's taken so long, but I really want to get
to know you all. I think that that could be
something that makes her feel more comfortable too.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And even when you talked about if there's one person
in the family, I imagine if it's her dad's side, maybe
she's always had a relationship with her dad or hopefully
he is more accessible and that can be the leeway too.
Of I know, I haven't really been able to spend
time with your side of the family, but I want
to get to know people more. What are some things
that I should be aware of? Who is who in
(30:35):
that way too? So yeah, I think that's a great idea.
Especially the Facebook. Between Facebook Instagram tagged photos, you could
probably put together a family tree.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Right, far more is out there about us than we
even want to know.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
So you know, we talked about like all of these
things and how to kind of navigate all of this.
But I think it is important, especially around the holidays,
because it is all also often one of the times
of the year where we like have like a significant
amount of time off for a lot of people, And
so I think also thinking about how we can get
in some self care and take care of ourselves during
the holidays are important. So what suggestions would you have
(31:15):
for people about like how to fit time in even
if they're hosting, Right, So let's say the whole family
is come into your house, Like, how do you still
get in some alone time? How do you sneak away
so that you still have some time for yourself during
all this?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I think a great way is depending on the person.
Maybe it looks like waking up a little earlier, so
before the house gets lively and everyone's awake, you have
some alone time that way. Or maybe it looks like
just saying, hey, I need a moment. I'm gonna step
away for a second. Maybe it doesn't look like how
it would typically look because you have a whole bunch
(31:48):
of guests or people in your house. But maybe it's
you go somewhere and listen to your favorite song, or
you go take a walk really quickly, or you have
a moment with your partner, because sometimes with family in town,
maybe it can feel like you and your partner are disconnected.
So finding out what self care looks like for you
in that moment and what you're needing. Maybe you are
just needing quiet time to be alone, but maybe you're
(32:11):
needing to feel like me and my partner are still
a team and even though there's a whole bunch of
people in our space, we have this connection and we're here.
So I would definitely say being transparent about it. It
doesn't have to be in a I need a break
from y'all in a rude way or anything like that.
But just hey, you know what, I've been cooking all day.
I'm going to take a second and go upstairs to
(32:32):
rest or before we go out and see The Nutcracker
or watch this movie. I'm gonna take a moment really
quickly to get ready or something like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Mm hmmm h More from our conversation after the break.
So I think something else with that is that our
willness press practices often get disrupted. Right, So if we're traveling,
maybe we don't have access to our gym or the
(33:04):
equipment that we have at home. So what tips or
strategies would you offer for how to kind of stay
connected to where our wellness practice is during this time.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I'm often the one traveling because I'm single with no kids,
so I have to go to everyone else, and some
things I know will get disrupted, like I've been going
to bar class. Obviously I can't do that when I'm
on vacation. But there's other parts of my wellness or
my morning routine that I can do anywhere. So maybe
it looks like downloading a certain app, like I use
(33:33):
to Shine app for mindfulness and to practice gratitude, so
even if I'm not home, I can access that. Or
maybe there's something that replaces what you would normally do
if you're used to going to the gym and you
don't have that outlet, maybe it looks like going for
a walk that where you're still getting some energy, still
moving your body, still getting some movement. So I think
(33:54):
tweaking what your wellness practice looks like it could also
look like inviting others to join you. Right, So maybe
it feels like I don't have time to step away,
But you know what, maybe someone else wants to go
for a walk with me. Maybe that can be a
way to connect with an in law or connect with
a family member that I'm close to, and we just
want some time just to ourselves to talk for a bit.
(34:17):
So I would definitely say adding people in if possible,
incorporating or finding some aspects of your wellness routine that
can be done regardless of where you are, and prioritizing
that and switching up or making some compromises or concessions
that maybe my wellness won't look the exact same, but
(34:38):
it can still bring me the same type of feelings.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Sir Jordan, when you mentioned you're single with no kids,
or you're the one who's always having to travel, it
MAYE think you know, at some point you might decide
that you don't want to do that, or I think
you have heard from community members who have said that
they are like tired of being the one hosting and
they don't want to do it anymore. So they actually
just want to travel during the holidays and they don't
want to do any of that. So what often is
(35:01):
how do you have this conversation like with your mama
and your grandma saying that you grandmamas, how do we
have this conversation? And then I think the other part
is like, how do you deal with the fallout right
of people maybe being upset or haven't hurt feelings?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So I haven't had to have the conversation myself yet
because so far I haven't necessarily minded to the point
where I'd want to stop. I do think that it's
a conversation of hey, it gets exhausting, or maybe offering
some alternatives. I'm tired, I can't afford to travel. You know,
(35:40):
prices have been very extensive, so maybe it's either I
can't afford or I just simply don't want to and
that's a reason enough. What would it be like for
you all to come visit me instead? Or what would
it be like if I come two weeks later and
we do something else then? But for this holiday, I
just want time to myself, or I want to spend
time with friends, or a lot of people like you said,
(36:01):
are just they want to travel to an island or
be on a beach because it's cold in November and December.
So maybe it's a conversation of I really enjoy spending
time with you on I love this family, and while
that's true, I also need a break and this is
the only time I can do it because this is
when most people take time off, And this is what
(36:21):
it may look like. Maybe we can still create some
family traditions. We can still speak on FaceTime. I'll still
be there for us to have our conversations, but I
am physically exhausted from always being the one that is
expected to make the concessions or to make the changes.
If you are the one that's always hosting, then it
can be like, hey, let's pass the baton. Why don't
(36:42):
we switch it up, Why don't we rotate? Maybe their
siblings and I usually host. What if my sister hosts
this year, and the next year my brother hosts, and
then the year after that is back to me. Or
what if we switch it around and make it a
little more fun where it's not always the pressure on
me because I will burn out. And would you rather
me be bitter and angry and resentful when we're having
(37:04):
a family dinner and miserable, or would you rather just
pause and reset? Refigure out what our traditions are going
to look like.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, I think that is important, right, because I think
we get so stuck in the rut of just doing
what we've always done and we don't have to think like, hey,
I actually don't have to do this anymore if I
don't want to. So I think it's an important thing
to consider.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
For sure, and the fallout there may be some, right,
because people, especially grandmas, tend to want things where they want,
They want to see their grandbabies, they want things how
they want them. And just recognizing hopefully your family can
take the tradition and the expectations aside and hear that
you're in a sense crying out for help like I
(37:47):
cannot do this anymore. I don't have the capacity to.
And I know that this maybe messes up what we're
used to, but I need this break in order for
us to keep flowing and functioning well as a family.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So what do you think that non black family members
can do to support the black women and girls in
their lives during this holiday season?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I think be understanding too, and it might be difficult
to be understanding, but recognize that there are added pressures
that we as black women face, especially if we're moms,
but especially if we're also single, and especially if we're
the oldest daughter or the oldest in the family. There
(38:30):
are just added pressures where people expect us to do
it all. And maybe as the non black partner or
as a partner observing first year, you can just see
but then validate us and let us know you're not
crazy for feeling this way. I see that your family
members are putting a lot of pressure on you, or
I notice that this is happening. This must be really
(38:52):
hard for you. Is there anything that I can do
to help you? Would you want me to respond to
these invites? Would you want me to help you make
the food so that you're not doing it yourself, Like
just finding a way where you can be a helping
hand and also a space for them to vent and
complain too, right, because again there's this expectation that everyone
(39:13):
should be just happy and excited about the holidays, and
when you are faced with a lot of the pressure
and a lot of the planning and a lot of
them making sure stuff gets done, it's hard to do
that and you may just need someone to let you
be mad and cry it out for a second. And
to hug you and provide you that comfort and also
(39:34):
let you know, hey, you're doing a good job, or
I see you, or I see all that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Thank you for that. So you mentioned earlier that you
like to sometimes record conversations, like when you're talking, say oh,
it's in the family, And I think that that's such
a beautiful idea, especially around the holidays, because that's often
when a lot of us are together. What other kinds
of things would you suggest for people or that you
hope people don't lose sight of as they are gathering
with family this holiday season.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think the biggest one is obviously, especially with COVID,
life is short, and that what's most important is the
time that we are spending, not always about the gifts,
not always about like who cooked what that is important,
but focusing on, you know, really just the time that
we're spending. I'm really big on capturing memories and moments,
(40:22):
so I take a lot of pictures or record a
lot of videos or voice notes because I'm really close
with all four of my grandparents and it's been a
huge blessing to have all four of them still and
so I try to make sure i'm not taking that
for granted. Maybe it looks like, you know, making sure
that you're not taking your siblings for granted or your
parents for granted, because anything can happen at any moment,
(40:43):
and really focusing on we have this time that we
spend together. Let's be present, Let's try to maybe put
our phones down, Let's try to maybe not focus solely
on TV, or if we're going to focus on the TV,
it's like a movie or something that we all picked
out to watch together. I think another big thing again,
especially with COVID, we probably missed physical touch and hugs
(41:06):
and being able to see a family member and hold
them and spend time with them in that way too,
And so really cherishing that I think is really important
as well.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, really just being president. I think you said it
beautifully there. So Jordan, where can we stay connected with you?
What is your website as well as any social media
handles you'd like to share? Oh?
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Sure, My website is www dot therapy ismjam dot com.
You can also find me on the Therapy for Black
Girls website because I am an author, so I have
a nice little page of all the articles that I've written.
And my social media is at therapy as my jam
as well on Instagram and Twitter.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Perfect will we shorre to include all of that in
the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some
time with us today, Jordan, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
No problem, It was my pleasure. Thanks so much for having.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Me once again. I'm grateful that Jordan was able to
join me for this converse to learn more about her
and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit the
show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session
three thirty two, and don't forget to text this episode
to two of your girls right now. If you're looking
for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist
(42:16):
directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And
if you want to continue digging into this topic or
just be in community with other sisters, come on over
and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy
corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You
can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and
(42:38):
Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all
so much for joining me. Again this week. I look
forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
What's
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
(00:57):
for joining me for session three point thirty two of
the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into
our conversation after a word from our sponsors. We're diving
back into our catalog to get you all prepared for
the upcoming holiday season. This week, we're circling back on
(01:21):
our conversation to talk about blending families with Jordan, a
Madison licensed clinical marriage and family therapist and contributing writers
to the Therapy for Black Girls blog. Whether you're bringing
a plus one to this year's family dinner or planning
to spend the holidays with the cousins you haven't seen
in years. There's one thing for certain, Blending new family
members with old traditions can be tricky, as of spending
(01:44):
the holidays with your family isn't hard enough. In this
week's session, Jordan and I explore some of the more
common feelings associated with blending families for the first time.
What about the holidays overall can cause tension among family members.
How you can maintain your wellness practices while other people
are staying in your home or while you're staying with
(02:04):
someone else and telling your family you're not coming home
for the holidays. If something resonates with you while enjoying
our conversation, please share with us on social media using
the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in
the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You
can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com.
(02:25):
Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us again.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Jordan, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I feel like you are a special holiday guest
coming in to talk about all things holidays. Last time
we talked about Jingle Jingle, which is still one of
my favorites for sure, but this year we're gonna get
into something a little different. So we have a handful
of community members who are planning to blend families for
the first time this holiday season. So some people are
(02:55):
like meeting their significant others family members for the first time.
Other people are like hosting the holidays for the first time,
and maybe in laws are coming together. And so I
wanted to have you on to talk about how we
can really take care of ourselves during this time, but
also if you could share some helpful tips for people
who are preparing for this moment in their lives.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Of course, holiday season is extremely exciting, but it can
also be nerve wracking and stressful for a lot of people,
especially when it comes to blending families. So definitely can
understand that.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Mm hmmm. So what would you say are some of
the common feelings that are associated with blending families for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So one I think is just like nervousness. Is this
person gonna like me? Is their family going to accept me?
Do we have some of the same traditions? Are we
going to like the same food, the same mixes? Things
like that, And I think other things come up can
be just you know, sometimes there's maybe insecurities or comparing
your family to their Sometimes I think sometimes they can
(03:54):
get a little like, my family does it this way
and your family does it that way? Do I have
to concede and given? Do I stick to what I'm doing?
And I think for couples, especially for the first time,
it can sometimes be a little nerve wracking, like how
do we assert ourselves as a couple in this space together?
Because typically when we go to our family of origin,
(04:15):
we kind of fall back into being not the little
kid per se, but we fall back into whatever role
we usually have in our family. And so when you're
adding another person, it can feel a little like how
do I navigate still being the baby of the family,
but also, now here's my partner and I need to
assert myself and make sure that you respect our boundaries,
(04:37):
you respect our relationship.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's a whole word there. So how would you say?
How would you say that people can go about best
preparing themselves? So are there certain conversations they should have,
like what kinds of things do they need to do
to prepare themselves for this?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So the first thing that comes to mind is having
like a code word. So maybe if things feel a
little tense or get too hectic, or you need a break,
like you and your partner having a special word phrase
maybe gesture that signals, hey, we need to regroup. I
think the biggest thing to remember wind blending families and
during the holiday season is that you and your partner
(05:13):
are a team. So you two are approaching this together.
It's going to be nerve wracking for both of you. Obviously,
I do think having conversations would be helpful first, and
maybe those conversations look like, are there any family dynamics
that I should know about? Or are there certain things
that maybe your parents don't like or that make them uncomfortable,
any topics that are like hot topics in your family? Right,
(05:36):
Because for some families, especially given the recent political climates,
some families don't discuss politics, right, Like, are there certain
things that we just stray away from or that I
should know not to bring up? Because maybe in my
family I don't think it's that big of a deal,
but in your family it can cause World War three?
So what are some things that I need to be
aware of? And then I think having conversations even after
(05:59):
the dinner or after the holidays, of like, how was
that for you, what are things that you noticed, Because
I do think seeing your partner around their family helps
you to understand more family dynamics. It helps you understand
maybe why your partner does certain things or sees things
a certain way, And so I think a check in
before and after is really helpful.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So what if I noticed something in this blended family
holiday that I'm like, oh, I don't know if I
like that about my partner, Like, oh, that's interesting. I
didn't anticipate that he would behave this way. So how
would you have that conversation, like as a post check in, Like,
what are some ways to maybe point out like some
concerns maybe that you noticed as a part of that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I would definitely say to wait until after the holidays, right,
because bringing it up in the middle of it, I
don't know if that would be received as well. You
two are both probably stressed and things like that. I
would say bringing it up after and approaching it with curiosity, right,
So instead of a why did you act like this
or you were acting funny? I didn't like that, maybe
like hey, I noticed that when your mom walked through
(07:05):
the door, you seem to get a little choie or
you didn't seem as assertive as you usually are. What's
that about? Or is that something that you notice too,
Is that something that usually comes up for you because
maybe it's something that they did because they're also nervous,
or maybe it is a family dynamic that you're like,
we need to kind of talk through this, right, And
so I think that approaching things with curiosity, with like
(07:26):
this is what I've noticed. Has anyone else in your
family noticed this too, because sometimes when we're a part
of our own family, we don't always see the patterns
or the different nuances, whereas someone on the outside looking
in is able to call some stuff out Obviously, approaching
it with there's no judgment, this is just what I'm noticing,
(07:47):
And maybe your partner is like, yeah, you know what,
that does happen a lot and this is why, or
it's like, wow, no one's ever told us that before,
and I didn't realize that, and maybe there are some
new things that I need to do and do differently.
So approaching it with curiosity and being gentle for sure,
and then as the partner hearing it, trying to also
(08:07):
remind yourself it's not a personal attack against your family.
It's not saying that something that you did was completely wrong.
It's just you two are kind of starting to navigate.
We've been a couple and we've been used to just
us in this bubble. What do we look like as
a couple when we're interacting with you know, our families
or our friends as well.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
M hm. So you mentioned earlier that you know, even
though the holidays can be an exciting time, it can
also be very stressful. So what are some of the
things that you think often need to tension in family
members around the holidays.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And my experience, at least what has come up sometimes
has been people have different feelings around the holidays. So
for some people, the holidays can bring up grief or
some sadness, right because you're reminded of maybe people that
you no longer have with you, or your feeling maybe
alone and things like that. And if you're with a
partner who's just super happy and excited about the holiday,
(09:00):
there can be some tension because your partner's like, what's
wrong with you? Like why are you so sad or miserable?
But you're like, hey, I'm going through something and I
need some patience too. So I think a big thing
is just people's views on holidays. I think the expectation
is that everyone just loves the holidays and it makes
them feel all warm inside, because I do love the
holidays and it makes me feel warm inside. But understanding
(09:22):
that that's not the exact same experience for everyone, and
so having understanding around that, I think is a big deal.
Another thing that comes to mind with tension around the holidays,
I would say, is certain boundaries. It can be really
hard to set boundaries, especially with loved ones, especially as
black women. We feel like I owe this person this,
(09:43):
or it'd be selfish if I say no, or I
have to do this. I have to handle everything and
do it myself. And so when there's that added pressure,
then you might feel resentful or you might feel like
you're doing everything and you might snap at others or
whatever the case may be, and that can cause some tension.
And also just the expectations. Right, if there are expectations
(10:04):
that people have of you that feel really heavy, like
you're always the host, or you always do certain things.
And let's say you're tired or you just need a
break or you want help. You don't mind doing it,
but you don't want to be the only one that
can also cause a lot of tension.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I appreciate you bringing up the idea of grief around
the holidays, I think especially against our current backdrop, right,
you know, so we know that we have lost so
many people to COVID and just other things, you know,
in the past couple of years. And I think for
a lot of people this may be their first year
maybe gathering again if they are right, like and so,
can you say a little bit about like how to
(10:40):
manage grief or like how to keep expectations level as
we are approaching the holiday season for people maybe this
is their first holiday season after losing someone.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say to give yourself grace.
Grief comes up unexpectedly, it comes in waves. You have
to allow yourself to feel how you're feeling. Do not
force yourself to be all happy, go lucky and smiley
if that's really just not how you're feeling. Obviously, there's
other beliefs where people say, like sometimes you just have
(11:11):
to fake it till you make it to put a
smile on your face. But I think it's really important
that you surround yourself with at least one or two
people who know and understand that you might not react
or behave the same way that you typically do during
the holiday season because you are processing the loss of someone,
or the loss of ideas, the loss of you know,
there's a lot of things that have changed in the
(11:32):
past two and a half years, right, So I would
say surrounding yourself with people who also get it and
don't expect you to just move through it and be okay,
but that allow you time to process it because typically
when you have a space to cry it out or
have a moment, then you feel like, Okay, I'm not
(11:53):
holding it in anymore, and then you're able to maybe
go back and enjoy a family gathering or you're able
to go back and something. But when you feel like
you're trying to keep it in and bottle it up,
then I think it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Thank you. So we have a couple of scenarios that
our community sent in. So we told them that we're
gonna be talking about blending families for the holidays and
ask them what questions they had, and so we have
a couple of scenarios that I want to share with
you to see you have some feedback or tips that
you would offer them. Okay, So the first one is
my biological parents have been divorced for over twenty years,
(12:28):
and during the time, I've always had to split my
time between them. On Christmas Day, Dad and stepmom in
the morning and mom in the evening. Now that I
have my own family, I'd like to invite all my
parents over so we can spend quality time together. I'm
nervous about bringing it up and even more nervous about
making it happen.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, what comes to mind? Because my parents are not together,
they do get along and things like that, but I
always have to go back and forth, and I'm always
making a joke like, well do I have to pop
out a kid for everyone to come see me? Because
this is a lot. So I definitely understand then, like
wanting everyone to come to you because it's difficult always
having to split, right, And so I think having a conversation,
(13:07):
hopefully they've been divorced for a long enough time that
maybe the focus is I want to spend this time
with both of you, and I want you both to
be in the same space. You don't have to sit
next to each other, you don't have to be all
buddy buddy. But what I do want is both of
my parents to be with me as I enter this
new stage, as I've started my own family. If there's
(13:28):
grandkids in the mixed grandparents love their grandkids. So if
you focus on the kids really want to be able
to have their grandma and grandpa there, hopefully that can
soften it a bit too. But reminding them that what's
really important is just having the quality time spend. They
don't have to interact necessarily, they don't have to act
(13:48):
as if everything is okay, but they can at least
be cordial, and that's really all you're asking for.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So I'm curious, Johan, you know, I'm thinking about, like
when my husband and I got married, like the conversations
around like Okay, how are we doing how now even
before we had kids, and what we've decided on is
switching back and forth for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Right, But
I'm wondering in your work, because you do a lot
of work with couples, are there other conversations that people
are having or other arrangements people are making around the
holidays that might be helpful for other people to think about.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I think it's really also really about the expectations that
you have right, because maybe it's easier for everyone to
come to you. I also think it depends on logistics
where people are located. But I think certain things that
are working out is just one year we do this,
next year we do that, like switching back and forth.
That seems to be the consensus what a lot of
(14:38):
people do and what's fair for other people they decide.
I had one couple I was thinking of. Her family
was like in the Virgin Islands, and so I think
Thanksgiving was really important to her family, and then Christmas
because her husband's birthday was near them and that's just
their holiday, right and there's no pressure about we go
back and forth or whatever the case may be. So
(14:59):
I think it it depends on what are the holidays
that are important. Another thing that's been helpful and what
I've heard is maybe it's not always about the exact day.
So for some families, maybe Christmas is a big deal.
For other families, like I know for my uncle and
his wife her family, Christmas Eve is what's really important.
(15:21):
So if you have certain things where it's like we
don't need to meet on the exact same day, but
as long as it's within the timeframe, of the holidays,
maybe we do something like instead of a Christmas party
or a Christmas dinner, we do a New Year's Eve dinner,
or we do a Black Friday dinner instead of actually Thanksgiving.
So I think it's mainly about like what are the
(15:43):
expectations and what day is really important? Because for some
they're like, the day is still the same as long
as we still connect have family, It doesn't have to
be on the twenty fourth of November. What if we
do on the twenty eighth, you know, and what works
better for everyone else? Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So you know, the other thing that this scenario made
me think of, and you kind of talked about this too,
is like creating new traditions, right, you know, so they
are the traditions that come from my family of origins.
But then, like you mentioned, like a lot of times,
once kids enter the picture, then there begins to be
a reimagining of what the holidays look like. And so
what kinds of like thoughts are things might you offer
(16:18):
to couples who are thinking about creating their own traditions.
So let's say I want to have dinner at the
house with maybe just the kids, but I don't maybe
want grandparents there, right, like I only wanted to be
a nuclear family. What kinds of guidelines would you offer
for like making those kinds of decisions?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So I would say, each partner writing like what they
would like, what's non negotiable versus what has some wiggle
room and finding some middle ground, some middle area because
maybe it's I don't want the grandparents involved, I just
want us, And your partner is saying dinner is really important.
What if we have a big Christmas breakfast that's just
(16:55):
us and then for dinner we go to my parents' house,
right Like? What if that would be a happy car
from us? So I think it's important to find solutions
that where both partners feel heard, both partners feel this
is what's important to me. And then knowing yourself, what
is a non negotiable like these are traditions that have
to be passed down versus what are some areas where
(17:18):
I have wigo room? And this is also why I
think premarital counseling is really helpful, because it allows you
to think about what do we want our life to
look like, how do we want to celebrate certain things?
How do we want to handle these things before they
come up and cause tension. Let's think about it. Obviously,
you don't necessarily know exactly how you're going to handle
(17:38):
things until you're in the situation. But I think if
there's certain values, certain traditions that you know your partner
really cares about and their family really cares about, you
can have that conversation even before the holidays come up.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, because ideally you would want to have these conversations
before it's time to send out the advice, right, because
then the tension in the stress does get a little higher.
So you offering premarital counseling is an opportunity because I
think there's a lot of misconceptions about premierital therapy, right.
It's like, yeah, if we're going to therapy already, like
we're doomed kind of things exactly. But that is the
space where you're having these kinds of conversations so that
(18:12):
you can't avoid You just don't think about it until
it's holiday time and you're like, oh, I didn't know
that was important to.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You, exactly. And even when I say premarital, I just
mean pre marriage. It doesn't even have to be that
you're engaged. I know for some people they're like, if
we're already in therapy and we're not even engaged yet,
what is the problem. But to your point, it doesn't
always have to be that there's a problem when you
go to therapy. A lot of times therapy can be
and should be preventative. It can be conversations about how
(18:40):
we want to handle these things, learning skills and tools,
instead of going to therapy when there's already been years
of resentment, years of problems, and then it's like, I
don't like this person, I don't know if we want
to be together, you know. So having these discussions and
thinking about it beforehand can definitely be helpful. Obviously, when dating,
I think it's you don't know until you start to
get into like dating seriously with that person. So if
(19:02):
you're dating someone and this is the first time that
you're meeting their family or blending families, I would just
say going into it with an open experience. Dating is
all about learning your partner, learning what works for you
and what doesn't. So being observant, not judgmental, there's a difference,
but just being open to seeing what parts of the
(19:24):
family impacted your partner, what made them you know, who
you want to be with today and things that you
learn and things like that. I think the assumption is
always there might be tension, but you'd be surprised because
some families can be very opening and very welcoming and
you can have a lot of fun. So going in
with an open mind. M h.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So this is a perfect segue into the scenario number two. Okay,
so this one is my fiance's parents are flying out
this holiday season to meet my parents for the first time.
I'm nervous because my family doesn't have a traditional Christmas.
My parents own their own business, and because they work
so much, we don't celebrate together like other families are
accustomed to. We eat dinner at eight pm and might
(20:02):
not open presents until ten. I want to show my
future in laws a good time, but I'm concerned that
our holiday traditions won't cut it in comparison to their
more traditional type of fun.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
What comes to mind is you want to show them
a good time so it can be like this is
how we do it over here, and it's still fun.
We're still doing the same things, it's just later in
the day. So maybe it's like during the day we
watch movies or we do other stuff and then we
have a late dinner and then we open the presence,
and especially if there's not little kids. Usually little kids
are the only ones that are waking up at the
(20:33):
kracodot over presents, So if there's no little kids in
the mix, it can be a very exciting like, no,
it's not traditional, but this is our tradition and we
welcome you to it. This is something that has worked
for us, maybe explaining like this is why it has
become this way. It's not that we don't care about Christmas.
This is just what works for us, and we invite
(20:55):
you to you know, half fun hour way. And so
I know for some people, I want to say, my
family would sometimes do like a movie day. My family
loves a Christmas story. I don't, but they do, and
so it's always on and things like that. So maybe
it's like having a movie day or doing something before
the presence, but giving them still a fun time. And
if they're visiting, maybe it's taking them around different places
(21:18):
in the area. I don't know where exactly they'd be
going to, but a lot of places have like lights
or certain things that you do around Christmas time. So
maybe it's we go out to dinner. We do these
things late and then once it's dark, we go we
take a drive around and see the lights, or we
do other things where it's still just as fun. It
just doesn't have to be the chronological order of what
(21:40):
they expect.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Mm hm. Yeah, And I wonder if this might not
be an opportunity for this couple to like start some
of their own traditions, right, or maybe a way to
incorporate some of the families the other families traditions. You know,
so if they do more daytime activities, like are there
things that they can do in the daytime before dinner, right,
So maybe that's like baking things or decorating something, or
it might be an opportunity to kind of start some
(22:02):
new stuff or to kind of blend both of the
family traditions.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yes, like maybe decorating the tree. Obviously people might expect
that the tree will be decorated before Christmas, but that
could be something where you frame it as we wanted
this to be something we all do together, so we
save decorating the tree for all of us to do it.
Or baking is a good one. Decorating ornaments, yeah, ornaments,
gingerbread houses. If you're into that. You know, there's so
(22:27):
many Christmas activities that you can do, and so just
approaching it with again curiosity, but also it can be
a fun experience, right, It doesn't have to be exactly
what everyone is used to. And that's also how you
can frame it as me and my fiance is we
are starting this new life together. We appreciate this aspect
(22:47):
of our traditions on this side, and we appreciate this
aspect of traditions on this side, and this is our
way of like remixing it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
More from our conversation after the break. All right, our
third scenario. I'm a single mother and I really want
my child to be able to spend the holidays with
(23:16):
her siblings. Her father has two other children with two
different mothers, and I think it would be really fun
for us all to get the kids together to do something.
I'm nervous because there's tension among the parents, but I
want to figure out how we can blend families to
make these memories for our kids.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh that's beautiful. Yeah, I would say it seems like
I'm imagining the tension maybe between the moms and the dad.
Don't know for sure, but if she's not feeling there's
tension between her and anyone, maybe reaching out of I
think this would be a great idea for the kids.
I want to do this thing. I want to get
all the kids together so they can celebrate. If you
feel uncomfortable in the space. Again, I'm not sure what
(23:53):
the relationship is, but if you trust me, you can
drop your kid off if you don't want to stay.
But I have these things planned or I want us
to have a movie night, or bake cookies or do
something where the kids can spend time together, because even
though we are not with this man anymore, or even
though we have differences or we disagree, our children should
be the priority and we want to make sure that
(24:15):
they feel included, but also like they have each other right,
And especially if she's a single mom and say it's
just her and her child, you want to make sure
that your child has like fun things to be around.
He or she is not the only child in the situation,
and so that could be I'm sure the goal of
making sure you're spending time with your siblings, you're spending
time with people that are your age, and it being
(24:37):
fun and hopefully the moms are in agreement, and I
would see that as a really big effort to put
differences aside and really just focus on the betterment of
the kids, because I think blended families obviously can happen.
The parents just have to be able to remember that
the children are the priority and not get too involved
(24:58):
with their ego or their hurt or any feelings that
come up for them.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Mm hmm, yeah, And I think I agree with you.
I think that this would be a beautiful scenario, you know,
if they're able to pull this off. And I see
this as something happening either Christmas Eve or maybe like
a day or two before, because I would imagine, you know,
everybody has their own individual families that they may want
to do things with, but it could be a cool
kind of like yearly tradition that they get together every
(25:23):
year two days before Christmas and like have a sleepover
with matching pajamas and all the moms get together and
like do decorations, and they have presence that they know
they open like from each other, and like, I think
that that actually would be a beautiful kind of offering.
And like you mentioned, if there's somebody like one of
the other moms where there's not tension with could they
open the invitation? This could even be a great way
(25:45):
to eat some of that tension, right, Like, I know
there's been issues between us in the past, but this
almost is an olive branch. I think of recentering the kids,
like you mentioned, which should be the priority.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And obviously there's similarities if you two or three have
chosen to have a child, but all so with this
one person. Maybe there's certain things that you all enjoy
doing with that person that maybe you have similarities. But
the biggest similarity is that you all are mothers, right,
and you most likely want to prioritize your kid and
make them feel that they are a part of something.
(26:17):
I think sometimes tension comes, especially with blended families, where
it can feel like this kid gets more than this kid,
or this person gets more. So if you focus on
I want us all to be together. I want us
all to do something. Maybe the kids have a movie night.
Maybe we as the moms, we have some hot chocolate
or some wine. Not condoning alcoholism, but you know, we
(26:37):
do something that's just us and that we have fun
and we make space for the children. Or maybe it's
after Christmas and the children get to bring all their
toys together and play together or something like that.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Mm hmmmmm, Yeah, I think that could be a very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, and a tradition like they could keep going for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
All Right, So one final scenario. Okay, so this one says,
I'm spending Thanksgiving with my dad's side of the family
this year. I barely know that side of the family,
and I'm nervous because I've always felt like my mom
discouraged us from spending time with them because they're a
little ratchet. However, I want to know my people, and
though I'm almost forty, I still want to try. I
feel crazy asking people what their names are, but this
(27:17):
is where we are. I'm embarrassed that I don't know
them better.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing to do is own that,
and not own it as though it's your fault, but
own it as Unfortunately I didn't get the experience to
grow up with you all. So I do feel bad
for not knowing this, but I really do want to
learn now. And in my opinion, it's never too late.
As long as you have breath in your body and
you were able to meet people and do things, that's
(27:42):
never too late. And I think that's beautiful that you're
still choosing to spend that time even if it feels
awkward or uncomfortable, and ideally hopefully they would be welcoming
in the idea of it wasn't you who as a kid,
you weren't choosing what you were doing or who you
were spending time with, and now you're making this choice
to spend time with us and get to know us,
(28:04):
and we really appreciate it. Obviously. Again, I think, especially
in the black community, there can be the differences in
like how we appear black people as a culture. There's
a spectrum. So if she is saying or defining them
as a little more ratchet, I imagine maybe she's wondering
that it might feel uncomfortable or they might think that
she's bougie or snobby or whatever the case may be.
(28:26):
And so again with openness, with curiosity, but also just
being transparent of this is how I do things, or
this is how I was raised, and I wasn't able
to meet you all or have these experiences, but I
really want to have these experiences now, and please tell
me what I can. I know for myself. Sometimes if
I'm speaking with my grandparents or I'm wanting to gain
(28:48):
family information. I'll say, is it okay if I record this?
I really want to you know, remember this, or take
lots of pictures or whatever the case may be. So
I think going into it, obviously you're going to be
nervous recognizing it's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong,
and you're using this opportunity to learn more and to
be a part of this family and add to your
(29:10):
extended family, and so approaching it with excitement as well.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I would add to that if you're on Facebook.
I think Facebook has a lot of downfalls, but one
of the upsides that I think a lot of family
members are often on Facebook, and so it's very possible
that you can do a lot of research before you
even go, Right, I don't know who cousins are and
you know, so that may be helpful and may help
you to feel a little more comfortable in the space,
so that you know whose name is what.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I would also suggest maybe like finding one person that
you're feeling closest to, So is there a cousin or
somebody on your dad's side who you can do like
some prep sessions with right, Okay, So I'm wanting to
do more of this. Tell me who this is, what's
the story here? You know, is there any kind of
drama in the background that I need to be aware of,
So getting yourself ready, I think for the situation, because
I agree with you, like it wasn't necessarily her fault
(29:59):
that she didn't necessarily grow up with them. But I
think going into it with curiosity and saying I want
to do this now, maybe even apologizing like I'm sorry
it's taken so long, but I really want to get
to know you all. I think that that could be
something that makes her feel more comfortable too.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And even when you talked about if there's one person
in the family, I imagine if it's her dad's side, maybe
she's always had a relationship with her dad or hopefully
he is more accessible and that can be the leeway too.
Of I know, I haven't really been able to spend
time with your side of the family, but I want
to get to know people more. What are some things
that I should be aware of? Who is who in
(30:35):
that way too? So yeah, I think that's a great idea.
Especially the Facebook. Between Facebook Instagram tagged photos, you could
probably put together a family tree.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Right, far more is out there about us than we
even want to know.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
So you know, we talked about like all of these
things and how to kind of navigate all of this.
But I think it is important, especially around the holidays,
because it is all also often one of the times
of the year where we like have like a significant
amount of time off for a lot of people, And
so I think also thinking about how we can get
in some self care and take care of ourselves during
the holidays are important. So what suggestions would you have
(31:15):
for people about like how to fit time in even
if they're hosting, Right, So let's say the whole family
is come into your house, Like, how do you still
get in some alone time? How do you sneak away
so that you still have some time for yourself during
all this?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, I think a great way is depending on the person.
Maybe it looks like waking up a little earlier, so
before the house gets lively and everyone's awake, you have
some alone time that way. Or maybe it looks like
just saying, hey, I need a moment. I'm gonna step
away for a second. Maybe it doesn't look like how
it would typically look because you have a whole bunch
(31:48):
of guests or people in your house. But maybe it's
you go somewhere and listen to your favorite song, or
you go take a walk really quickly, or you have
a moment with your partner, because sometimes with family in town,
maybe it can feel like you and your partner are disconnected.
So finding out what self care looks like for you
in that moment and what you're needing. Maybe you are
just needing quiet time to be alone, but maybe you're
(32:11):
needing to feel like me and my partner are still
a team and even though there's a whole bunch of
people in our space, we have this connection and we're here.
So I would definitely say being transparent about it. It
doesn't have to be in a I need a break
from y'all in a rude way or anything like that.
But just hey, you know what, I've been cooking all day.
I'm going to take a second and go upstairs to
(32:32):
rest or before we go out and see The Nutcracker
or watch this movie. I'm gonna take a moment really
quickly to get ready or something like that, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Mm hmmm h More from our conversation after the break.
So I think something else with that is that our
willness press practices often get disrupted. Right, So if we're traveling,
maybe we don't have access to our gym or the
(33:04):
equipment that we have at home. So what tips or
strategies would you offer for how to kind of stay
connected to where our wellness practice is during this time.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I'm often the one traveling because I'm single with no kids,
so I have to go to everyone else, and some
things I know will get disrupted, like I've been going
to bar class. Obviously I can't do that when I'm
on vacation. But there's other parts of my wellness or
my morning routine that I can do anywhere. So maybe
it looks like downloading a certain app, like I use
(33:33):
to Shine app for mindfulness and to practice gratitude, so
even if I'm not home, I can access that. Or
maybe there's something that replaces what you would normally do
if you're used to going to the gym and you
don't have that outlet, maybe it looks like going for
a walk that where you're still getting some energy, still
moving your body, still getting some movement. So I think
(33:54):
tweaking what your wellness practice looks like it could also
look like inviting others to join you. Right, So maybe
it feels like I don't have time to step away,
But you know what, maybe someone else wants to go
for a walk with me. Maybe that can be a
way to connect with an in law or connect with
a family member that I'm close to, and we just
want some time just to ourselves to talk for a bit.
(34:17):
So I would definitely say adding people in if possible,
incorporating or finding some aspects of your wellness routine that
can be done regardless of where you are, and prioritizing
that and switching up or making some compromises or concessions
that maybe my wellness won't look the exact same, but
(34:38):
it can still bring me the same type of feelings.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Sir Jordan, when you mentioned you're single with no kids,
or you're the one who's always having to travel, it
MAYE think you know, at some point you might decide
that you don't want to do that, or I think
you have heard from community members who have said that
they are like tired of being the one hosting and
they don't want to do it anymore. So they actually
just want to travel during the holidays and they don't
want to do any of that. So what often is
(35:01):
how do you have this conversation like with your mama
and your grandma saying that you grandmamas, how do we
have this conversation? And then I think the other part
is like, how do you deal with the fallout right
of people maybe being upset or haven't hurt feelings?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So I haven't had to have the conversation myself yet
because so far I haven't necessarily minded to the point
where I'd want to stop. I do think that it's
a conversation of hey, it gets exhausting, or maybe offering
some alternatives. I'm tired, I can't afford to travel. You know,
(35:40):
prices have been very extensive, so maybe it's either I
can't afford or I just simply don't want to and
that's a reason enough. What would it be like for
you all to come visit me instead? Or what would
it be like if I come two weeks later and
we do something else then? But for this holiday, I
just want time to myself, or I want to spend
time with friends, or a lot of people like you said,
(36:01):
are just they want to travel to an island or
be on a beach because it's cold in November and December.
So maybe it's a conversation of I really enjoy spending
time with you on I love this family, and while
that's true, I also need a break and this is
the only time I can do it because this is
when most people take time off, And this is what
(36:21):
it may look like. Maybe we can still create some
family traditions. We can still speak on FaceTime. I'll still
be there for us to have our conversations, but I
am physically exhausted from always being the one that is
expected to make the concessions or to make the changes.
If you are the one that's always hosting, then it
can be like, hey, let's pass the baton. Why don't
(36:42):
we switch it up, Why don't we rotate? Maybe their
siblings and I usually host. What if my sister hosts
this year, and the next year my brother hosts, and
then the year after that is back to me. Or
what if we switch it around and make it a
little more fun where it's not always the pressure on
me because I will burn out. And would you rather
me be bitter and angry and resentful when we're having
(37:04):
a family dinner and miserable, or would you rather just
pause and reset? Refigure out what our traditions are going
to look like.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, I think that is important, right, because I think
we get so stuck in the rut of just doing
what we've always done and we don't have to think like, hey,
I actually don't have to do this anymore if I
don't want to. So I think it's an important thing
to consider.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
For sure, and the fallout there may be some, right,
because people, especially grandmas, tend to want things where they want,
They want to see their grandbabies, they want things how
they want them. And just recognizing hopefully your family can
take the tradition and the expectations aside and hear that
you're in a sense crying out for help like I
(37:47):
cannot do this anymore. I don't have the capacity to.
And I know that this maybe messes up what we're
used to, but I need this break in order for
us to keep flowing and functioning well as a family.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So what do you think that non black family members
can do to support the black women and girls in
their lives during this holiday season?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I think be understanding too, and it might be difficult
to be understanding, but recognize that there are added pressures
that we as black women face, especially if we're moms,
but especially if we're also single, and especially if we're
the oldest daughter or the oldest in the family. There
(38:30):
are just added pressures where people expect us to do
it all. And maybe as the non black partner or
as a partner observing first year, you can just see
but then validate us and let us know you're not
crazy for feeling this way. I see that your family
members are putting a lot of pressure on you, or
I notice that this is happening. This must be really
(38:52):
hard for you. Is there anything that I can do
to help you? Would you want me to respond to
these invites? Would you want me to help you make
the food so that you're not doing it yourself, Like
just finding a way where you can be a helping
hand and also a space for them to vent and
complain too, right, because again there's this expectation that everyone
(39:13):
should be just happy and excited about the holidays, and
when you are faced with a lot of the pressure
and a lot of the planning and a lot of
them making sure stuff gets done, it's hard to do
that and you may just need someone to let you
be mad and cry it out for a second. And
to hug you and provide you that comfort and also
(39:34):
let you know, hey, you're doing a good job, or
I see you, or I see all that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Thank you for that. So you mentioned earlier that you
like to sometimes record conversations, like when you're talking, say oh,
it's in the family, And I think that that's such
a beautiful idea, especially around the holidays, because that's often
when a lot of us are together. What other kinds
of things would you suggest for people or that you
hope people don't lose sight of as they are gathering
with family this holiday season.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think the biggest one is obviously, especially with COVID,
life is short, and that what's most important is the
time that we are spending, not always about the gifts,
not always about like who cooked what that is important,
but focusing on, you know, really just the time that
we're spending. I'm really big on capturing memories and moments,
(40:22):
so I take a lot of pictures or record a
lot of videos or voice notes because I'm really close
with all four of my grandparents and it's been a
huge blessing to have all four of them still and
so I try to make sure i'm not taking that
for granted. Maybe it looks like, you know, making sure
that you're not taking your siblings for granted or your
parents for granted, because anything can happen at any moment,
(40:43):
and really focusing on we have this time that we
spend together. Let's be present, Let's try to maybe put
our phones down, Let's try to maybe not focus solely
on TV, or if we're going to focus on the TV,
it's like a movie or something that we all picked
out to watch together. I think another big thing again,
especially with COVID, we probably missed physical touch and hugs
(41:06):
and being able to see a family member and hold
them and spend time with them in that way too,
And so really cherishing that I think is really important
as well.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, really just being president. I think you said it
beautifully there. So Jordan, where can we stay connected with you?
What is your website as well as any social media
handles you'd like to share? Oh?
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Sure, My website is www dot therapy ismjam dot com.
You can also find me on the Therapy for Black
Girls website because I am an author, so I have
a nice little page of all the articles that I've written.
And my social media is at therapy as my jam
as well on Instagram and Twitter.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Perfect will we shorre to include all of that in
the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some
time with us today, Jordan, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
No problem, It was my pleasure. Thanks so much for having.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Me once again. I'm grateful that Jordan was able to
join me for this converse to learn more about her
and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit the
show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session
three thirty two, and don't forget to text this episode
to two of your girls right now. If you're looking
for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist
(42:16):
directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And
if you want to continue digging into this topic or
just be in community with other sisters, come on over
and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy
corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You
can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and
(42:38):
Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all
so much for joining me. Again this week. I look
forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
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